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Worley" CC: "urn@ietf.org" , "L.Svensson@dnb.de" Thread-Topic: [urn] Comments on PWID -05 - now PWID -06 Thread-Index: AdTQKXi5cerx0k6zRXuaa/w3TPMeTg== Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 12:28:45 +0000 Message-ID: <2f02c12dbfa7481483c4f038b3714f3a@kb.dk> Accept-Language: da-DK, en-US Content-Language: da-DK X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.226.229.95] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-IP: 130.226.226.11 X-Env-From: elzi@kb.dk X-Proto: esmtps X-Revdns: post-03.kb.dk X-HELO: post.kb.dk X-TLS: TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256 X-Authenticated_ID: X-PolicySMART: 10573177 X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (s) Archived-At: Subject: [urn] Comments on PWID -05 - now PWID -06 X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 12:28:55 -0000 SSBoYXZlIG5vdyB1cGxvYWRlIGEgbmV3IHZlcnNpb246IGRyYWZ0LXB3aWQtdXJuLXNwZWNpZmlj YXRpb24tMDYNCiAtIGFuZCB0aGFua3MgYWdhaW4gZm9yIGNvbW1lbnRzIGFuZCBzdWdnZXN0aW9u cw0KDQpSZWdhcmRpbmcgdGhlIHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gZnJvbSBNYXJ0aW4gKGluY2x1ZGVkIGJlbG93 KSwgSSBjYW4gYXMgYSBjb21wdXRlciBzY2llbnRpc3QgY2VydGFpbmx5IHNlZSB0aGUgcmVhc29u aW5nIGFzIHF1aXRlIG9idmlvdXMuIEhvd2V2ZXIsIG15IGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ugd2l0aCBwcmVzZW50 YXRpb24gb2YgdGhlIFBXSUQgaXMgdGhhdCBzeW50YXggYmFzZWQgb24gY29tcHV0YXRpb25hbCBy ZWFzb25pbmcgaXMgc29tZXRoaW5nIHRoYXQgdXNlcnMgZmluZCBpbGxvZ2ljYWxseSwgZS5nLiB0 aGF0IHRoZSBhcmNoaXZlZC1pdGVtLWlkICh1c3VhbGx5IFVSSSkgaXMgaW5jbHVkZWQgaW4gdGhl IGVuZCBvZiB0aGUgUFdJRC4gSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgYWRkaW5nIGEgIn4iIGZvciBpZGVudGlm aWVycyB0aGF0IGFyZSByZWdpc3RlcmVkIHNlcGFyYXRlbHkgaXMgYWNjZXB0YWJsZSBmb3Igc3Vj aCB1c2VycywgYnV0IEkgYW0gYWxzbyBjb252aW5jZWQgdGhhdCBhICIrIiBiZWZvcmUgYSBkb21h aW4gd2lsbCBiZSBzb21ldGhpbmcgdGhhdCBjb25mdXNlcyAobm9uLWNvbXB1dGVyIHNjaWVuY2Up IHVzZXJzIGEgbG90LiANCkFsc28sIGFzIHNhaWQgaW4gbXkgcHJldmlvdXMgbWFpbCwgaXQgaXMg aGlnaGx5IHVubGlrZWx5IHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgd2lsbCBldmVyIGJlIGEgY2FzZSB3aGVyZSAifiIg aXMgdGhlIGZpcnN0IGNoYXJhY3RlciBpbiBhIGRvbWFpbiBmb3IgYSB3ZWIgYXJjaGl2ZS4gVGhl cmVmb3JlLCBpdCBzZWVtcyB0aGF0IGl0IHNob3VsZCBub3QgYmUgbmVjZXNzYXJ5LiANCkEgbWlu b3IgZXh0cmEgdGhpbmcgaXMgdGhhdCBhbGwgZXhpc3RpbmcgUFdJRHMgKGFuZCB0b29scyBwcm92 aWRpbmcgYW5kIHJlc29sdmluZyBQV0lEcykgd291bGQgbm90IGNvbXBseSwgd2hpY2ggdGhleSB3 b3VsZCBvdGhlcndpc2UgKG5vbmUgb2YgdGhlc2UgdXNlIHJlZ2lzdGVyZWQgaWRlbnRpZmllcnMg eWV0IG9ubHkgZG9tYWlucyBhbmQgVVJJcykuDQpJbiBvdGhlciB3b3JkczogSSB3aWxsIGJlIHZl cnkgc29ycnkgdG8gYWRkIGEgIisiIHRvIGRvbWFpbnMsIGFuZCBJIGJlbGlldmUgaXQgaXMgbm90 IG5lY2Vzc2FyeS4NCg0KVGhlIHVwbG9hZGVkIHZlcnNpb24gIGRvZXMgbm90IGluY2x1ZGUgYSAi KyIgdG8gZG9tYWlucywgLSBJZiByZXF1aXJlZCwgSSB3aWxsIG9mIGNvdXJzZSBhZGQgaXQgKGFs dGhvdWdoIHNvcnJ5IHRvIGRvIHNvKQ0KDQpQbGVhc2UgbGV0IG1lIGtub3cgaWYgaXQgYWNjZXB0 YWJsZSwgYW5kIEkgd2lsbCBhY3QgYWNjb3JkaW5nbHkuDQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywgRWxkIA0K DQoNCk9uIDIwMTkvMDMvMDEgMTE6MzEsIERhbGUgUi4gV29ybGV5IHdyb3RlOg0KPiBNYXJ0aW4g Si4gRHVlcnN0IDxkdWVyc3RAaXQuYW95YW1hLmFjLmpwPiB3cml0ZXM6DQo+Pj4gWy4uLl0gIEUu Zy4sIG9uZSBjb3VsZCByZXF1aXJlIHRoYXQgYW55IGFyY2hpdmUtaWQgdGhhdCBpcyBub3QgDQo+ Pj4gaW50ZW5kZWQgdG8gYmUgaW50ZXJwcmV0ZWQgYXMgYSBETlMgbmFtZSB0byBzdGFydCB3aXRo IG9uZSBvZiAiLSIsIA0KPj4+ICIuIiwgIl8iLCAifiIuDQo+Pg0KPj4gSSBoYXZlbid0IGxvb2tl ZCBpbnRvIHRoZSBkZXRhaWxzLCBidXQgaW4gZ2VuZXJhbCwgSSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGlzIGEgDQo+ PiBiYWQgaWRlYS4gSXQgaXMgbXVjaCBiZXR0ZXIgdG8gaGF2ZSBhbiBleHBsaWNpdCBkaXN0aW5j dGlvbiB0aGFuIHRvIA0KPj4gcmVseSBvbiBzb21lIHN5bnRheCByZXN0cmljdGlvbnMuIFN1Y2gg c3ludGF4IHJlc3RyaWN0aW9ucyBtYXkgb3IgbWF5IA0KPj4gbm90IGFjdHVhbGx5IGhvbGQgaW4g cHJhY3RpY2UuIEl0J3MgdmVyeSBlYXN5IHRvIGNyZWF0ZSBhIEROUyBuYW1lIA0KPj4gc3RhcnRp bmcgd2l0aCAnLScgb3IgJ18nLCBmb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgZXZlbiB0aG91Z2ggb2ZmaWNpYWxseSwg dGhhdCdzIG5vdCBhbGxvd2VkLg0KPiANCj4gSSBtYXkgYWdyZWUgd2l0aCB5b3UgLi4uIEJ1dCB3 aGF0IGRvIHlvdSBtZWFuIGJ5ICJhbiBleHBsaWNpdCANCj4gZGlzdGluY3Rpb24iPyAgRS5nLiwg SSB3b3VsZCB0ZW5kIHRvIGNvbnNpZGVyICJhcmNoaXZlLWlkcyBzdGFydGluZyANCj4gd2l0aCAn ficgYXJlIHJlZ2lzdGVyZWQgYXJjaGl2ZSBuYW1lcywgYW5kIGFyY2hpdmUtaWRzIHRoYXQgZG8g bm90IGFyZSANCj4gY29uc2lkZXJlZCBETlMgbmFtZXMiIHRvIGJlIGFuICJleHBsaWNpdCIgZGlz dGluY3Rpb24sIGJ1dCB5b3UgbWVhbiANCj4gc29tZXRoaW5nIGVsc2UuDQoNCldlbGwsIHRoZSBl eHBsaWNpdCBkaXN0aW5jdGlvbiB3b3VsZCBiZSAiaWYgaXQgc3RhcnRzIHdpdGggJ34nLCB3aGF0 IGZvbGxvd3MgaXMgYSByZWdpc3RlcmVkIGFyY2hpdmUgbmFtZSwgYW5kIGlmIGl0IHN0YXJ0cyB3 aXRoICcrJywgd2hhdCBmb2xsb3dzIGlzIGEgRE5TIG5hbWUiIG9yIHNvbWUgc3VjaC4gVGhpcyB3 b3VsZCBub3QgZXhjbHVkZSBhbnkgbGVhZGluZyBjaGFyYWN0ZXJzIGluIGVpdGhlciBhcmNoaXZl IG5hbWVzIG9yIEROUyBuYW1lcy4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywgICBNYXJ0aW4uDQoNCj4gT3IgbWF5YmUg dGhlIHJpZ2h0IHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzLCBXaGF0IGRvIHlvdSBwcm9wb3NlIGFzIGFuIGFsdGVybmF0 aXZlPw0K From nobody Fri Mar 1 08:31:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E59361274D0 for ; 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boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB309713337A3E320618C157DEFA760HE1PR07MB3097eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: helsinki.fi X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 36ddf12c-c387-4642-db81-08d69e17625a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Mar 2019 07:27:38.9580 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98ae7559-10dc-4288-8e2e-4593e62fe3ee X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3371 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 08:31:38 -0800 Subject: [urn] URN R-component specification X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 07:27:49 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB309713337A3E320618C157DEFA760HE1PR07MB3097eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, ISSN International Centre and the National Library of Finland are working t= ogether in order to enhance the library's URN resolver in such a way that i= t will meet the requirements of resolving URNs from the urn:issn namespace.= This, in turn, is not possible without using the R-component. The IETF URN= WG did not specify its internal syntax, but it is necessary to do that now= so that the project can move on. A summary of our thoughts on this (your comments are most welcome): R-component must be compliant with URI syntax. In this respect it will diff= er from other widely used PID systems. I don't know if the on-going revisio= n of Handle system will change the situation for Handle and DOI, because no= drafts of the revised Handle specification are available. R-component must specify services and service related parameters. In order = to facilitate simple processing of R-components, there should be at most on= e service request per R-component, but there can be 0-n parameters related = to it. As in URI queries, both the service and its parameters will be composed of = field-value pairs. The field name and value will be separated by the equals= sign, and the series of pairs are separated by the ampersand. Field name for services will be s. Field name for parameters will be p. Initial set for service values will be derived from RFC 2483. Since the set= of services specified in it is not enough for our project, some additional= values will be specified; we expect that a registry of services and their = names and service parameters will be established later by an appropriate bo= dy which may or may not be IETF / IANA. IESG or some other appropriate body= should discuss this. AFAIK service registry does have a close relation to = the registry of namespaces; when namespaces are registered, the registrants= should also list the resolution services supported (if any). Possibility of sharing this proposed registry with other PID systems should= be investigated, even though both ARK and Handle/DOI need a syntax revisio= n to be able to use the URN R-component or syntactically similar construct. We expect that service parameter values will be specified in this project o= nly for metadata request, to enable specification of metadata schema/ forma= t and whether the record requested is full or "mini". The latter is free i= n the ISSN database, the former is not. Parallel to the R-component specification we are drafting the data model fo= r the updated URN resolver. The current one is simple 1:1 mapping between U= RN and (functional) URL, but the future resolver must enable one to many -m= appings, and it must be also aware to the sufficient degree on how the URLs= relate to the identified resource. Examples Request for the (current) homepage of the identified periodical urn:issn:?+s=3DI2L Request for a past homepage of the identified periodical (new service, for = requesting just "dead" URIs, which can still used for locating the resource= from Web archives) urn:issn:?+s=3DI2Lp Request for all homepage URLs of the identified periodical urn:issn:?+s=3DI2Ls Request for metadata about the identified serial in JSON schema urn:issn:?+s=3DI2C&p=3DJSON Request for full metadata record about the identified serial in MARC format urn:issn:?+s=3DI2C&p=3DMARC&p=3Dfull Although it is possible to add R-components manually, we expect that user i= nterfaces will take care of this, on the request of end users. Since R-components do not have a role in identification, they do not need t= o persist, and they can be changed "on the fly" if need be. Best regards, Juha --_000_HE1PR07MB309713337A3E320618C157DEFA760HE1PR07MB3097eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

 

ISSN International Centre and t= he National Library of Finland are working together in order to enhance the= library’s URN resolver in such a way that it will meet the requireme= nts of resolving URNs from the urn:issn namespace. This, in turn, is not possible without using the R-component. The IETF URN= WG did not specify its internal syntax, but it is necessary to do that now= so that the project can move on.

 

A summary of our thoughts on th= is (your comments are most welcome):

 

R-component must be compliant w= ith URI syntax. In this respect it will differ from other widely used PID s= ystems. I don’t know if the on-going revision of Handle system will c= hange the situation for Handle and DOI, because no drafts of the revised Handle specification are available.

 

R-component must specify servic= es and service related parameters. In order to facilitate simple processing= of R-components, there should be at most one service request per R-compone= nt, but there can be 0-n parameters related to it.

 

As in URI queries, both the ser= vice and its parameters will be composed of field-value pairs. The field na= me and value will be separated by the equals sign, and the series of pairs = are separated by the ampersand.

 

Field name for services will be= s. Field name for parameters will be p.   

 

Initial set for service values = will be derived from RFC 2483. Since the set of services specified in it is= not enough for our project, some additional values will be specified; we e= xpect that a registry of services and their names and service parameters will be established later by an appropr= iate body which may or may not be IETF / IANA. IESG or some other appropria= te body should discuss this. AFAIK service registry does have a close relat= ion to the registry of namespaces; when namespaces are registered, the registrants should also list the resol= ution services supported (if any).

 

Possibility of sharing this pro= posed registry with other PID systems should be investigated, even though b= oth ARK and Handle/DOI need a syntax revision to be able to use the URN R-c= omponent or syntactically similar construct.

 

We expect that service paramete= r values will be specified in this project only for metadata request, to en= able specification of metadata schema/ format and whether the record reques= ted  is full or “mini”. The latter is free in the ISSN database, the former is not.

 

Parallel to the R-component spe= cification we are drafting the data model for the updated URN resolver. The= current one is simple 1:1 mapping between URN and (functional) URL, but th= e future resolver must enable one to many –mappings, and it must be also aware to the sufficient degree o= n how the URLs relate to the identified resource.   

 

Examples

 

Request for the (current) homep= age of the identified periodical

 

urn:issn:<issn-number>?&#= 43;s=3DI2L

 

Request for a past homepage of = the identified periodical (new service, for requesting just “deadR= 21; URIs, which can still used for locating the resource from Web archives)=

 

urn:issn:<issn-number>?&#= 43;s=3DI2Lp

 

Request for all  homepage = URLs of the identified periodical

 

urn:issn:<issn-number>?&#= 43;s=3DI2Ls

 

Request for metadata about the = identified serial in JSON schema

 

urn:issn:<issn-number>?&#= 43;s=3DI2C&p=3DJSON

 

Request for full metadata recor= d about the identified serial in MARC format

 

urn:issn:<issn-number>?&#= 43;s=3DI2C&p=3DMARC&p=3Dfull

 

Although it is possible to add = R-components manually, we expect that user interfaces will take care of thi= s, on the request of end users.   

 

Since R-components do not have = a role in identification, they do not need to persist, and they can be chan= ged “on the fly” if need be.

 

Best regards,

 

Juha   

 

--_000_HE1PR07MB309713337A3E320618C157DEFA760HE1PR07MB3097eurp_-- From nobody Fri Mar 1 20:42:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01402131116 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 20:39:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.933 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcastmailservice.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9kDXPDRYhrN9 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 20:39:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 080F2131115 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 20:39:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.104]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id zwQxgGZIAEVJDzwQxgUX8m; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 04:39:35 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20180828_2048; t=1551501575; bh=PWMbawkhZxUYHPLntXsdwX8Rvpo9ZzCaCSiMhcc0gX4=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date: Message-ID; b=iQlX2AwUSbOegNPBYCHRyLa6SjqMgZ6oijwRiZfvniW5Q/sPfzEKysHW3GP9N0QkH 1FwlxtrTSCKvSSngd8XVGlBAc29BX1sxjW6UtgDQ3q/kBTxyO1ckljkOiXsOEFpig6 x68LZ3BlBiEuUrp47ECarMj7ErwWuP8o/rV0yphn+BxvXF3Q/41JncFZKJT0k9EClS sBk0uwApgCX4xRdq0pQYSIbK0OSmk4idtNHPtg6/RvuTMUtctXGC9XEzimbkPq8U/V P3Z68ixqLeVrkRFPEby4HNBPtEwo9ctkXts7AfN/H9tG9IvKOxf/sCcIXs8hw9nUHc MSNjQfkRLtXAA== Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-ch2-08v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id zwQtgJYIUCk5ezwQug0mVq; Sat, 02 Mar 2019 04:39:34 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=-100;st=legit Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x224dUSw015175; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 23:39:31 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id x224dScW015160; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 23:39:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: "Hakala\, Juha E" Cc: klensin@jck.com, stpeter@mozilla.com, L.Svensson@dnb.de, urn@ietf.org, godefroy@issn.org, emma.pietarila@helsinki.fi, paul@countyanalytics.com, esa-pekka.keskitalo@helsinki.fi, nina.hyvonen@helsinki.fi In-Reply-To: (juha.hakala@helsinki.fi) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 23:39:28 -0500 Message-ID: <87imx1evpb.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 20:42:52 -0800 Subject: Re: [urn] URN R-component specification X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2019 04:39:39 -0000 "Hakala, Juha E" writes: > Field name for services will be s. Field name for parameters will be p. In this conceptualization, all parameter values (values of the "p" field) are drawn from the same value space, which generally limits them to being "keywords". > Initial set for service values will be derived from RFC 2483. Since > the set of services specified in it is not enough for our project, > some additional values will be specified; we expect that a registry of > services and their names and service parameters will be established > later by an appropriate body which may or may not be IETF / IANA. IESG > or some other appropriate body should discuss this. AFAIK service > registry does have a close relation to the registry of namespaces; > when namespaces are registered, the registrants should also list the > resolution services supported (if any). Your examples essentially scope the service values to the urn:issn namespace, which suggests that although they may be shared other PID systems for serials, they aren't likely to be generally applicable across all URN namespaces. So they should be looked at as part of the urn:issn registration, rather than as part of a global space of "services for URNs". > Since R-components do not have a role in identification, they do not > need to persist, and they can be changed "on the fly" if need be. That is, they may be changed in an incompatible way in the future. 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: helsinki.fi X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f3ff309c-4286-4bcd-c705-08d6a070747e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Mar 2019 07:10:16.7388 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98ae7559-10dc-4288-8e2e-4593e62fe3ee X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3228 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 06:08:44 -0800 Subject: Re: [urn] URN R-component specification X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 07:10:30 -0000 Hello Dale,=20 thank you for your comments; some responses below.=20 -----Original Message----- From: Dale R. Worley =20 Sent: lauantai 2. maaliskuuta 2019 6.39 To: Hakala, Juha E Cc: klensin@jck.com; stpeter@mozilla.com; L.Svensson@dnb.de; urn@ietf.org; = godefroy@issn.org; Pietarila, Emma S S ; paul@c= ountyanalytics.com; Keskitalo, Esa-Pekka ;= Hyv=F6nen, Nina Subject: Re: URN R-component specification "Hakala, Juha E" writes: > Field name for services will be s. Field name for parameters will be p. In this conceptualization, all parameter values (values of the "p" field) are drawn from the same value space, which generally limits them to = being "keywords". Juha: OK. I suppose this is not a problem to what we intend to do.=20 > Initial set for service values will be derived from RFC 2483. Since=20 > the set of services specified in it is not enough for our project,=20 > some additional values will be specified; we expect that a registry of=20 > services and their names and service parameters will be established=20 > later by an appropriate body which may or may not be IETF / IANA. IESG=20 > or some other appropriate body should discuss this. AFAIK service=20 > registry does have a close relation to the registry of namespaces;=20 > when namespaces are registered, the registrants should also list the=20 > resolution services supported (if any). Your examples essentially scope the service values to the urn:issn namespac= e, which suggests that although they may be shared other PID systems for se= rials, they aren't likely to be generally applicable across all URN namespa= ces. So they should be looked at as part of the urn:issn registration, rat= her than as part of a global space of "services for URNs". Juha: although my examples are from the urn:issn namespace, the services th= emselves are IMO generic. Most of the services are taken from RFC 2483, whi= ch has no relation to the urn:issn namespace at all. There are many other u= rn namespaces - for instance urn:isbn and urn:nbn - which may support provi= sion of metadata about the identified resource in various formats. And most= namespaces which provide some kind of resolution services will support urn= - url and urn - urls mappings. =20 The only urn:issn specific service the ISSN database will support is a requ= est for extended metadata based on the so called Linking ISSN. Such metadat= a covers all manifestations of a serial and has no exact equivalent in othe= r bibliographic databases, at least in library sector. Request for such met= adata may be implemented as a namespace specific service or with a namespac= e specific parameter attached to the I2C service R-component.=20 Many urn namespaces may have these internal services. But even they should = be registered centrally, as eventually another namespace may emerge with a = similar need. > Since R-components do not have a role in identification, they do not=20 > need to persist, and they can be changed "on the fly" if need be. That is, they may be changed in an incompatible way in the future. Juha: note "if need be". I was thinking about some hypothetical major chang= es to the URI syntax having an impact on the R-component specification. I f= ind such changes very unlikely since they would be a problem to a very larg= e number of applications and "cool" URIs out there.=20 At this point it is important to get a confirmation from technical experts = that our specification is compliant with both RFC 3986 and RFC 8141. If not= , we shall of course do whatever is needed to fix it. =20 =20 Dale From nobody Mon Mar 4 10:20:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6329130DEA for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 10:20:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.018, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xPbDxeqHxVF7 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 10:20:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com (mail-wm1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6537B128B14 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 10:20:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id g20so108196wmh.5 for ; Mon, 04 Mar 2019 10:20:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ldi5a5FfUasaNp0GCO/8OMu81+NdKG00cWEZIJCThw0=; b=cGGgw9e1v0OZT1PmQMEaBHQzeRWttCdaUpRJYa/LvLaoJNeOe7zVxoU1AOFjcOO98z +6aynta2NmZyAwqmJIakCjoFUBl8hruR+DF3Cwev9vRkGynWVitD543DfIhP+uaRXGQt cv9sIVk/BE8ywd+0PatahMA0PffmAd2YpbJcmA2xRCPzzXinFNyQKOGG8a1kqhPqpFw1 Tv9rLf9TUbkcPcxLlSZawxY2uHJCPx6wM4EsuhTR0i/uBN1qnbw+4JlVmG7ejl0dR0dN QNzs4c8vf7WT/ruTQAYgvVs82cl82PN4FFHGGBJQNge4FEQuIphEXP4nRSn/l+j5pc1r F2jg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ldi5a5FfUasaNp0GCO/8OMu81+NdKG00cWEZIJCThw0=; b=H88QQpNA3nUTz4yhzbBBzWf4/12gvxQDcNI1FyMjob1II0dEJwKG5Na5FFWLBh74ZK FAWIfA5BZRZnet15dAG3Uqr27gWcy4Ww+ZAkq3lQiOnIRP1RZkiao6Qunp18cfs+mPqr hC5/j/gLbB/X9d+zLQGIFABh6AjWGO0OnM+c4L6gdcUZeI7i64W/AiMDV0heMa8KyPre VRFj3qBhfgO5BBJzxVYbxT/BFJnsrKfR4fuREzHITYWFzMd8mlnM6dwxFLfikIdeXxMg g7STO6nTT25OyyZ2LwLkQSCHJZDi1TC0d2JhjgCLRZmsaCNgsON93uk7WKf4J/kOZY/h TUbw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUo56zQqrXhGXFz5H6NbRGcEyuA5H5yV35zb+igmNdIdSP6IFBw BKsMMjeXvsqNOlN+tKwfBjE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzQtEQDQ7MlkE3/gpsn1Y07R769Xis4RQfoHKOokKDJhWwJ3kXcyPncsKBZ3kMlW3C/tq7adA== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cf32:: with SMTP id m18mr269677wmg.98.1551723599806; Mon, 04 Mar 2019 10:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.189] ([95.239.201.214]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q78sm5868081wme.43.2019.03.04.10.19.58 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 04 Mar 2019 10:19:59 -0800 (PST) Sender: Enrico Francesconi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.0 \(3094\)) From: Enrico Francesconi In-Reply-To: <2e9c9bb1-0e82-b02d-a920-62d319888e37@mozilla.com> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2019 19:19:56 +0100 Cc: Barry Leiba , Pierluigi Spinosa , Alexey Melnikov , L.Svensson@dnb.de, LUPO Caterina , urn@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <6BFBDEE4-8D30-462A-A8FE-D284116EC42C@ittig.cnr.it> <87bm5re8ty.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> <1225e8e0-dcfe-29bc-2f0e-850945b7632d@stpeter.im> <2e9c9bb1-0e82-b02d-a920-62d319888e37@mozilla.com> To: "Dale R. Worley" , Peter Saint-Andre X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3094) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] Moving ahead with draft-spinosa-urn-lex X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2019 18:20:05 -0000 Dear Dale and Peter, are there any news about the actual registration at IANA of the = urn:lex namespace based on draft-spinosa-urn-lex-13? https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spinosa-urn-lex/ Thanks a lot for your cooperation! Best regards Pierluigi and Enrico --------------------------------------------------------- Enrico Francesconi ITTIG - CNR Institute of Legal Information Theory and Techniques Italian National Research Council Via de' Barucci 20 50127 Florence Italy Tel: +39-055-4399-665 Fax: +39-055-4399-605 email: francesconi@ittig.cnr.it --------------------------------------------------------- > On 12 dic 2018, at 18:30, Peter Saint-Andre = wrote: >=20 > Actually, I'll coordinate with Alexey, since he's the sponsoring Area > Director. >=20 > Peter >=20 > On 12/12/18 7:39 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >> In my role as URN review team lead, I will contact the IANA. >>=20 >> On 12/12/18 7:35 AM, Enrico Francesconi wrote: >>> Dear Dale, >>> thanks for your feedback! Frankly I don't know who is the >>> responsible, is it maybe the ietf secretary? >>> Best >>> Enrico >>>=20 >>> Il giorno mer 12 dic 2018, 04:13 Dale R. Worley >> > ha scritto: >>>=20 >>> Enrico Francesconi >> > writes: >>>> being quite a long time since the last communication (June 2018), = we >>>> were wondering whether any action from our side is needed before to >>>> proceed with the so called "experimental" registration of the = URN:LEX >>>> namespace. >>>=20 >>> Sorry, we've dropped the ball here. As far as I can tell from = reviewing >>> the discussion at >>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn/current/maillist.html, = we have >>> consensus to register the namespace based on = draft-spinosa-urn-lex-13, >>> but we haven't actually notified IANA of that. Who is it that = notifies >>> IANA? >>>=20 >>> Dale >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> urn mailing list >> urn@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn >>=20 From nobody Mon Mar 4 17:41:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FFB5130E2F for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 17:41:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mozilla.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kObHn4KTDo6z for ; 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Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] Moving ahead with draft-spinosa-urn-lex X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 01:41:50 -0000 As far as I know, this Internet-Draft is intended to be published as an informational RFC, in which case the IANA registration would happen through normal processes before publication. However, the datatracker page indicates that Alexey needs to follow up (specifically it appears that he needs to create the writeup for balloting by the IESG). Alexey, please let us know if we're mistaken about the next steps for this registration. Peter On 3/4/19 11:19 AM, Enrico Francesconi wrote: > Dear Dale and Peter, > are there any news about the actual registration at IANA of the urn:lex namespace based on draft-spinosa-urn-lex-13? > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-spinosa-urn-lex/ > > Thanks a lot for your cooperation! > Best regards > > Pierluigi and Enrico > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Enrico Francesconi > ITTIG - CNR > Institute of Legal Information Theory and Techniques > Italian National Research Council > > Via de' Barucci 20 > 50127 Florence > Italy > > Tel: +39-055-4399-665 > Fax: +39-055-4399-605 > email: francesconi@ittig.cnr.it > --------------------------------------------------------- > >> On 12 dic 2018, at 18:30, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >> >> Actually, I'll coordinate with Alexey, since he's the sponsoring Area >> Director. >> >> Peter >> >> On 12/12/18 7:39 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >>> In my role as URN review team lead, I will contact the IANA. >>> >>> On 12/12/18 7:35 AM, Enrico Francesconi wrote: >>>> Dear Dale, >>>> thanks for your feedback! Frankly I don't know who is the >>>> responsible, is it maybe the ietf secretary? >>>> Best >>>> Enrico >>>> >>>> Il giorno mer 12 dic 2018, 04:13 Dale R. Worley >>> > ha scritto: >>>> >>>> Enrico Francesconi >>> > writes: >>>>> being quite a long time since the last communication (June 2018), we >>>>> were wondering whether any action from our side is needed before to >>>>> proceed with the so called "experimental" registration of the URN:LEX >>>>> namespace. >>>> >>>> Sorry, we've dropped the ball here. As far as I can tell from reviewing >>>> the discussion at >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn/current/maillist.html, we have >>>> consensus to register the namespace based on draft-spinosa-urn-lex-13, >>>> but we haven't actually notified IANA of that. Who is it that notifies >>>> IANA? >>>> >>>> Dale >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> urn mailing list >>> urn@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn >>> > From nobody Mon Mar 4 17:51:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01E77130E68 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 17:51:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=stpeter.im header.b=N2f56UrY; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=UKwZPBr3 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ukVrBasIQJ0m for ; 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Mon, 4 Mar 2019 20:51:34 -0500 (EST) To: "urn@ietf.org" From: Peter Saint-Andre Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=stpeter@stpeter.im; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFETDzsBEAC0FOv1N3ZJzIIxN6cKD475KVS9CHDPeYpegcOIPnL5eY1DCHeh/IwS1S7R CePtmiybNoV9FsI4PKUknzXQxA6LVEdAR/LUlhgJKjq+gsgp8lqbEILhg13ecH66HwLS9rar bQkC47T7kL8miIPBFC6E3A4Lq1L+eueO6UcLhKgoYkMxOjdiWrMgKTnVpch5ydLkPm/z0Zo8 zRgqlPuTLeCrXXZYnjHXLVFN2xy04UzOs7P5u5KVfx5Z7uQisr8pXtyLd6SpTZo6SHgKBv15 uz0rqXhsJojiGtOXfWznAjaS5FUOORq9CklG5cMOUAT8TNftv0ktsxaWDL1ELDVQPy1m7mtz o+VREG+0xmU6AjMo/GHblW1UU7MI9yCiuMLsp/HLrFuiosqLVZ85wuLQ2junPe3tK8h15Ucx IXAcpQ1VqIaDQFbeuLOXJTF8YHpHdpHYt/ZM1ll7ZBKGAo8yd7uF7wJ9D3gUazwdz9fFjWV7 oIk7ATwOlFllzmWDn+M2ygbHOGUGMX5hSaa8eDSieiR2QoLdn27Fip7kMBTJ2+GISrfnJTN/ OQvmj0DXXAdxHmu2C4QgmZbkge35n129yzXn9NcqzrGLroV62lL3LgX6cSbiH5i7GgWY6CAP b1pMogV0K475n9FvOSDRiG4QSO5yqKiA3OP5aKrIRp2TNAk4IwARAQABtCZQZXRlciBTYWlu dC1BbmRyZSA8c3RwZXRlckBzdHBldGVyLmltPokCOQQTAQIAIwUCURMPOwIbAwcLCQgHAwIB BhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEOoGpJErxa2p6bgQAKpxu07cMDOLc4+EG8H19NWXIVVy bOEvfGuHYZaLKkPrhrMZwJiOwBpyISNRt9qzX1eLCVaojaoEVX6kD8MGc5zKFfiJZy3j7lBW l+Ybr7FfXYy2BbAXKx49e1n6ci9LmBrmVfAEaxtDNPITZ9N9oUAb9vS0nrG036EwteEHAveQ vlDjO7lhz6+Cv7lZQgBj9rZ6khfcQ4S3nSCQaKLQ9Iav4fqxI7SfuPKnx6quHX3JNLGnVo3w l+j/foCK0iTrmtHxCI3kc/bx6g32pRjHEPX0ALMBhmzU2uca+TE0zCEC96mgYXAUCwdnCFWy beIEbt6pz65iML13kAVAq0H/GqncnMGN0MbOatnw1Tdz/vkLojIy7QbPcQ0plUFxv5491xPf IrHhOWdRXp6WUt88fcqhT6MHZpVRtusj2ornKVVn+Y0GLsMMCTcrXJRG7Ao1YV72t/pJpzfG WSaaxolxDIZ6B+76jrIhUhiWgo/4nf+DN6BIlCZQ6j6xxjjx462cu02kuhIILTk2pzaMOufT BWx0uJhZk/KP2Fay/41pX7pvVOwRC4uIlKsLnJKLPS7EDa4BUUxENfd/9LqOGwlII8BbSe98 PLMI8sXkcigc3UXMVda9ll0YhQa+lbP1NaszmnBhwuiCsgnPGbImsJuRzgEEgckwP/dNeyr6 MlFMyfaeuQINBFETDzsBEADBzOsEHpUmhkRUjH9Tek87dn5P/Yh/L/HptgCGk40TL/C+kYdk d3HyteMEf061PNmsS/Rq8k37Fu3VODYb9SPYKxtgksKSYUtIkPKvao09K9QNWPqyWuNf0F+i AjVMUudaEVFJ7bHF310RDwLY5IvLeCXxtvG+Vv/i+g77d2WdPDp+zLJ8306C4yBKjSJV8xW0 cn2fd7NviIEN6cNHTsZNDZVMlgYPrxnwSq8GTEPGC7HsLIwGcx3hIe9QjnPw9CpAmQENpDEy WcxgF5uwo2NJECoDswKz1Nb0gfawF3ZIbD+GcLujTu94iJuVg25jATWm9wTgcfZo4UPllRGX dIb8uWwUFQlLQgd4ROLZZtXNGmHIymJrV2crx53gxup+1j0XqhlzKg8xbImWhEfS9oHZkRK8 VHgmWSIt7TNwNir6N5j3lqwWVBhnu6GzF01sKGNySlqNRbd0fqhakCkK71b8ot8tYTcYG5Lg 10z6HTbgQx2UwLthUjqbblDQ+GLmrOhiWklLXRsnlnPMwnEyFePAnsT5tasy2Cn9qjpttNDa h7PB8iFUi9mtTF/XDVgpFaB5G3CDV7Q2NgbAI6g6QhLIAmXzSP635G83mda0TKXHQXHDyLJT Tn+WVFU7t4m4uLt+0DsWU8jXHQWyUTNG9WPUrXhusDUAPHxFCQ/n/lQVBwARAQABiQIfBBgB AgAJBQJREw87AhsMAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pqfgP/ApN+TRu2bBIgaw1dr3AznSSha84DIpXUDh3 udZvQrGbUtz8/mA+e3iZEN/cmmBw2LGlAuQoJNILTZQ318yTP+E5QU7fJH7FVsohUyvrMfyt 3IMA9jg0Z9MuloLezvIjjMfFeNa0ROgDb/ubOT7JQzi1kwN8Lu3lO80HwqBHXEeOLoislUSn ZajRKvITbKWkZ6PHRjlMw1Wk4oIi6VLHgGgj79zzL3uhML2663m7imShvz1QcHTwvyR5i8cZ bNOEkotZyERiA1p7YHuruS+QvTi3ZPoQbnMUB3a7py9d11bw1+w3LiAUGZE/z5hBWOFxYtw+ w/U/Vx0BwJGYlwU3M2W20uEXe+qxz7wnakygKjmLiD2z4njfKjcNCiV3FmXrpmWgADln1c4j fxDh0NrndrsM8FPDf1TMPtOZgFDkKripc9xkZ/25P6xn27oTOHWKcAC0QhxSH+HuVBBRk8Ag F+zAbDZe4/L6+kanSrycIXW+wCzwBq61aWsz2QhhuKjozVkhk4dRG+CfjzAFjnyxwYERn3uX VKQAwTwcdNcTI9RV98IsNrw9Y4lJEAg6CjNPmiD5+EASycqaOuToRSGukr8sOQLWLPyTnez/ aG8Xf7a+fntWzK2HuDYoSDhJJrylWw/lMklOBm4wtMeNA0zcQH6AQV/GzQVQkSGqrLuMVIV/ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2019 18:51:33 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 01:51:40 -0000 A few months ago while doing research for a side project, I came across two URN namespaces (used in humanistic scholarship) that had not yet been registered: CTS and CITE2. Since then I've worked with the scholars who designed these URN namespaces regarding the registration process. As a result, they have prepared the following two registrations: http://cite-architecture.org/ctsurn/rfc.txt http://cite-architecture.org/cite2urn/rfc.txt Review by the other members of the expert review team would be appreciated. Thanks! Peter From nobody Mon Mar 4 22:58:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE64D130FCE for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 22:58:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=helsinkifi.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9W8skIOdi1cq for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2019 22:58:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr150099.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.15.99]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 229EC130FBD for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: helsinki.fi X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9226af40-d7a0-443d-d7e2-08d6a138024a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Mar 2019 06:58:44.7243 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98ae7559-10dc-4288-8e2e-4593e62fe3ee X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3081 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 06:58:53 -0000 SGVsbG8sIA0KDQpmcm9tIG15IHBvaW50IG9mIHZpZXcgdGhlc2UgbmFtZXNwYWNlIHJlZ2lzdHJh dGlvbnMgYXJlIGludGVyZXN0aW5nLCBub3QgbGVhc3QgYmVjYXVzZSBJIGFtIGN1cnJlbnRseSBp bnZvbHZlZCByZXZpc2lvbiBvZiBJU08gNjkwLCB0aGUgSVNPIHN0YW5kYXJkIGZvciBiaWJsaW9n cmFwaGljIHJlZmVyZW5jaW5nLiBVUk5zIGZvciBjaXRpbmcgcmVzb3VyY2VzIGlzIHNvbWV0aGlu ZyB0aGF0IG5lZWRzIHRvIGJlIGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgaW4gdGhlIHJldmlzaW9uIHByb2Nlc3MuIA0K DQpJIGFtIGluIGZhdm91ciBvZiByZWdpc3RlcmluZyB0aGVzZSBuYW1lc3BhY2VzLiBUaGUgb25s eSByZXNlcnZhdGlvbiBJIGhhdmUgaXMgdGhlIHVzYWdlIG9mICJAIiB0byBzZXBhcmF0ZSBzdWJy ZWZlcmVuY2VzLiBXb3VsZCBpdCBiZSBwb3NzaWJsZSB0byB1c2UgaGFzaCBjaGFyYWN0ZXIgZm9y IHRoaXMgcHVycG9zZT8gDQoNCkF0IGh0dHBzOi8vY2l0ZS1hcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUuZ2l0aHViLmlv L29oY28yL3F1aWNrLyANCg0KdGhlIHJlc2VhcmNoZXJzIHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMgZ2l2ZSB0aGUgZm9s bG93aW5nIGV4YW1wbGU6IA0KDQp1cm46Y3RzOmdyZWVrTGl0OnRsZzUwMjYubXNBLmhtdDoxLjIu bGVtbWEjzrzhv4bOvc65z4INCg0Kd2hpY2ggd291bGQgYmUgYmV0dGVyIGFsaWduZWQgd2l0aCBS RkNzIDM5ODYgYW5kIDgxNDEuIEFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgcmVxdWVzdCwgdGhlcmUgYXJlIG5v IHBsYW5zIHRvIG1ha2UgdGhlc2UgVVJOcyBhY3Rpb25hYmxlLCBzbyBpbiB0aGUgc2hvcnQgdGVy bSBpdCBkb2VzIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgbWF0dGVyIHdoaWNoIGNoYXJhY3RlciBpcyB1c2VkLCBidXQg aWYgaW4gdGhlIGxvbmcgdGVybSBhY3Rpb25hYmlsaXR5IGJlY29tZXMgYW4gaXNzdWUsIGl0IGlz IGJldHRlciBub3QgdG8gZGl2ZXJ0IGZyb20gUkZDIDM5ODYgdW5sZXNzIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgZ29v ZCByZWFzb24gdG8gZG8gc28uICAgIA0KDQpUaGUgcHJvamVjdCByZWZlcnMgdG8gUkZDIDIxNDEg YXQgaHR0cDovL2NpdGUtYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlLm9yZy9jdHN1cm4vIGFuZCBlbHNld2hlcmU7IHRo ZXkgc2hvdWxkIHVzZSBSRkMgODE0MSBpbnN0ZWFkLiANCg0KSW4gdGhlb3J5LCB0aGUgcHJvamVj dCBzaG91bGQgdXNlIElTVEMgKEludGVybmF0aW9uYWwgU3RhbmRhcmQgVGV4dCBDb2RlKSB0byBp ZGVudGlmeSB0ZXh0dWFsIHdvcmtzLCBidXQgc2luY2UgSVNUQyBoYXMga2lja2VkIHRoZSBidWNr ZXQsIEkgd291bGQgbm90IGluc2lzdCBvbiB1c2luZyBpdC4gDQoNCkJlc3QsIA0KDQpKdWhhDQoN Cg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IHVybiA8dXJuLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0 Zi5vcmc+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBQZXRlciBTYWludC1BbmRyZQ0KU2VudDogdGlpc3RhaSA1LiBt YWFsaXNrdXV0YSAyMDE5IDMuNTINClRvOiB1cm5AaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFt1cm5dIENU UyBhbmQgQ0lURTIgVVJOcw0KDQpBIGZldyBtb250aHMgYWdvIHdoaWxlIGRvaW5nIHJlc2VhcmNo IGZvciBhIHNpZGUgcHJvamVjdCwgSSBjYW1lIGFjcm9zcyB0d28gVVJOIG5hbWVzcGFjZXMgKHVz ZWQgaW4gaHVtYW5pc3RpYyBzY2hvbGFyc2hpcCkgdGhhdCBoYWQgbm90IHlldCBiZWVuIHJlZ2lz dGVyZWQ6IENUUyBhbmQgQ0lURTIuIFNpbmNlIHRoZW4gSSd2ZSB3b3JrZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUgc2No b2xhcnMgd2hvIGRlc2lnbmVkIHRoZXNlIFVSTiBuYW1lc3BhY2VzIHJlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGUgcmVn aXN0cmF0aW9uIHByb2Nlc3MuIEFzIGEgcmVzdWx0LCB0aGV5IGhhdmUgcHJlcGFyZWQgdGhlIGZv bGxvd2luZyB0d28gcmVnaXN0cmF0aW9uczoNCg0KaHR0cDovL2NpdGUtYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlLm9y Zy9jdHN1cm4vcmZjLnR4dA0KDQpodHRwOi8vY2l0ZS1hcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUub3JnL2NpdGUydXJu L3JmYy50eHQNCg0KUmV2aWV3IGJ5IHRoZSBvdGhlciBtZW1iZXJzIG9mIHRoZSBleHBlcnQgcmV2 aWV3IHRlYW0gd291bGQgYmUgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZWQuDQoNClRoYW5rcyENCg0KUGV0ZXINCg0KX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCnVybiBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCnVybkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by91cm4NCg== From nobody Tue Mar 5 05:40:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4D7131161 for ; 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Tue, 05 Mar 2019 05:40:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "Smith, Neel" Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 14:40:21 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Hakala, Juha E" Cc: Peter Saint-Andre , "urn@ietf.org" X-MC-Unique: jar8UeQCON-s-uk1ASNfKQ-1 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000061680d05835904e1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 13:40:44 -0000 --00000000000061680d05835904e1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I believe the original rationale was that in the literary texts the Cts URN was primarily imagined for, "#" might appear far more frequently "@", and thus would more frequently require either escaping or eye-straining runs of "##" (the first syntactic, the second interpreted as content). Thanks for pointing out the outdated RFC reference! Neel On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 7:59 AM Hakala, Juha E wrote: > Hello, > > from my point of view these namespace registrations are interesting, not > least because I am currently involved revision of ISO 690, the ISO standa= rd > for bibliographic referencing. URNs for citing resources is something tha= t > needs to be considered in the revision process. > > I am in favour of registering these namespaces. The only reservation I > have is the usage of "@" to separate subreferences. Would it be possible = to > use hash character for this purpose? > > At https://cite-architecture.github.io/ohco2/quick/ > > the researchers themselves give the following example: > > urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma#=CE=BC=E1=BF=86=CE=BD=CE=B9=CF= =82 > > which would be better aligned with RFCs 3986 and 8141. According to the > request, there are no plans to make these URNs actionable, so in the shor= t > term it does not really matter which character is used, but if in the lon= g > term actionability becomes an issue, it is better not to divert from RFC > 3986 unless there is a good reason to do so. > > The project refers to RFC 2141 at http://cite-architecture.org/ctsurn/ > and elsewhere; they should use RFC 8141 instead. > > In theory, the project should use ISTC (International Standard Text Code) > to identify textual works, but since ISTC has kicked the bucket, I would > not insist on using it. > > Best, > > Juha > > > -----Original Message----- > From: urn On Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre > Sent: tiistai 5. maaliskuuta 2019 3.52 > To: urn@ietf.org > Subject: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs > > A few months ago while doing research for a side project, I came across > two URN namespaces (used in humanistic scholarship) that had not yet been > registered: CTS and CITE2. Since then I've worked with the scholars who > designed these URN namespaces regarding the registration process. As a > result, they have prepared the following two registrations: > > http://cite-architecture.org/ctsurn/rfc.txt > > http://cite-architecture.org/cite2urn/rfc.txt > > Review by the other members of the expert review team would be appreciate= d. > > Thanks! > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > urn mailing list > urn@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn > _______________________________________________ > urn mailing list > urn@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn > --00000000000061680d05835904e1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I b= elieve the original rationale was that in the literary texts the Cts URN wa= s primarily imagined for, "#" might appear far more frequently &q= uot;@", and thus would more frequently require either escaping or eye-= straining runs of "##" (the first syntactic, the second interpret= ed as content).

Thanks fo= r pointing out the outdated RFC reference!

Neel

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 7:59 AM Hakala, Juha E= <juha.hakala@helsinki.fi= > wrote:
Hell= o,

from my point of view these namespace registrations are interesting, not le= ast because I am currently involved revision of ISO 690, the ISO standard f= or bibliographic referencing. URNs for citing resources is something that n= eeds to be considered in the revision process.

I am in favour of registering these namespaces. The only reservation I have= is the usage of "@" to separate subreferences. Would it be possi= ble to use hash character for this purpose?

At https://cite-architecture.github.io/ohco2/quick/<= /a>

the researchers themselves give the following example:

urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma#=CE=BC=E1=BF=86=CE=BD=CE=B9=CF= =82

which would be better aligned with RFCs 3986 and 8141. According to the req= uest, there are no plans to make these URNs actionable, so in the short ter= m it does not really matter which character is used, but if in the long ter= m actionability becomes an issue, it is better not to divert from RFC 3986 = unless there is a good reason to do so.

The project refers to RFC 2141 at http://cite-architecture.org/c= tsurn/ and elsewhere; they should use RFC 8141 instead.

In theory, the project should use ISTC (International Standard Text Code) t= o identify textual works, but since ISTC has kicked the bucket, I would not= insist on using it.

Best,

Juha


-----Original Message-----
From: urn <urn= -bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre
Sent: tiistai 5. maaliskuuta 2019 3.52
To: urn@ietf.org
Subject: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs

A few months ago while doing research for a side project, I came across two= URN namespaces (used in humanistic scholarship) that had not yet been regi= stered: CTS and CITE2. Since then I've worked with the scholars who designe= d these URN namespaces regarding the registration process. As a result, the= y have prepared the following two registrations:

http://cite-architecture.org/ctsurn/rfc.txt

http://cite-architecture.org/cite2urn/rfc.txt

Review by the other members of the expert review team would be appreciated.=

Thanks!

Peter

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--00000000000061680d05835904e1-- From nobody Tue Mar 5 06:30:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80015124B0C for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:30:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HDEvK0hz3fKC for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88A3F13109F for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 06:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([91.61.58.238]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lck9X-1hQ5dE24Vb-00k9Za; Tue, 05 Mar 2019 15:30:11 +0100 To: "Hakala, Juha E" , Peter Saint-Andre , "urn@ietf.org" References: From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <796ae78a-9bb7-e29a-42de-0ebea0585966@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 15:30:10 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qfbKqyAHkczR6Sw9dkqBqmW92VirW74oWJS8USzKrLiVv3wpm0l JHffXBPKNW8fveMtlThq+N493x9UD2YNI9b6b9La99+qbshnNea1USD5NSJB3wmOtED+zOb RniC6MNh+MmCqp0tWY6pzuxCltKsfnnCiqRBDYDsrLpdGzd/0HvPKrSj2u0zKE9Y4MZQHSU FPQukR+zXrjAmBwuR0a0g== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:WXC9Uv1KLE4=:OvTOvLneEC+Wk9Uw/uZvke +k1Z8TP7M7uSA454B4oOLSXo+ScOoAu2lZgfVb9ym44iDsPFPVvtt9aE0GNCVMIiJZ4JY61Ed YuAMP+C+LFKuzhxuwCjqa/3Idl6FQ4otQVyWcNunrcfgoIO0hqNTCeCUtOTpqvoq7tSR20zXF 81vW2uncSd+ccGRtfp/0CfKm5QIP1MIH+9BZW+zuozeUgGYom7wpF94dXgklY3L7/JEZnAWtw qq0K09hrlJS8sqPFzlsfb0PIX+ueN5zMikKIorfVRBKe65mo2n5e0w7A3dCNOqF10hRc2imuG OWlfS9PGslMLpYpWR4j5JwlCPrzrWMSF3of2I3ixSMD4GkhxyVga8sUoRIkx7NzkmA+c7MAOI ftGtBW0f/JtFcfL/tzd++e++jLrZnlkTfFnUsPfHB/QnTIkDfn825nEX6c7ZEtqHTEM/YmR9I KMKLhwSrlrIXoLfZunX3MgxVcq8etG6jOF+Go08dnbDheFqsz8o8CoZEKkKzli3iO6xIhwbEB InL+JgySvPAOcjMvhRdfk5eoK8HPW7qIL68+uT8pmZfq1QDGltx2aZeFJi8LdfeN6Hat3d8N5 eQt4BQsnycof77A9YJ3DfS2G5gPZELIjVv3+ECUMH8XjfwXIQ18Hlith8wCxcJGfZlYj/UmuU ha23/+ZXvpXXgTbCk4wJ217EGkcI3tHPja4NT0meSi4jz4GwCTdBcsIPlGE4o5wYvkOPKA0/F hDGuvJuMOGt64lKxAduRiLkiRty9i/+67y+HjaKsLNxdaAeTlOwv2VDuzUunDNI3NtoXclXji 9WI47kxGux9cNMhVPHV4Nj7BoxdBPcnCsUJP/dEPJqRyODFk4VimGFdT/GWAFetAFXJ6Tr8Qc hjsEkvqq5Jj7whTT/rDM5opujYYgyEImpRhUQC+iLxG3GtbIHK+1jxL1qqDBX2qANR3FoSp1n HXRqDyWrqxA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 14:30:28 -0000 On 05.03.2019 07:58, Hakala, Juha E wrote: > Hello, > > from my point of view these namespace registrations are interesting, not least because I am currently involved revision of ISO 690, the ISO standard for bibliographic referencing. URNs for citing resources is something that needs to be considered in the revision process. > > I am in favour of registering these namespaces. The only reservation I have is the usage of "@" to separate subreferences. Would it be possible to use hash character for this purpose? > > At https://cite-architecture.github.io/ohco2/quick/ > > the researchers themselves give the following example: > > urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma#μῆνις > > which would be better aligned with RFCs 3986 and 8141. According to the request, there are no plans to make these URNs actionable, so in the short term it does not really matter which character is used, but if in the long term actionability becomes an issue, it is better not to divert from RFC 3986 unless there is a good reason to do so. > ... How is using "#" (the fragment identifier) better aligned with RFC 3986??? Best regards, Julian From nobody Wed Mar 6 18:31:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DEA413131F for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 18:31:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=stpeter.im header.b=x4DXmc9S; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=hP/vDWgw Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6i1bDlcfgo-Q for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 18:31:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AEDC13131E for ; 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Wed, 6 Mar 2019 21:31:18 -0500 (EST) To: Julian Reschke , "Hakala, Juha E" , "urn@ietf.org" References: <796ae78a-9bb7-e29a-42de-0ebea0585966@gmx.de> From: Peter Saint-Andre Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=stpeter@stpeter.im; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFETDzsBEAC0FOv1N3ZJzIIxN6cKD475KVS9CHDPeYpegcOIPnL5eY1DCHeh/IwS1S7R CePtmiybNoV9FsI4PKUknzXQxA6LVEdAR/LUlhgJKjq+gsgp8lqbEILhg13ecH66HwLS9rar bQkC47T7kL8miIPBFC6E3A4Lq1L+eueO6UcLhKgoYkMxOjdiWrMgKTnVpch5ydLkPm/z0Zo8 zRgqlPuTLeCrXXZYnjHXLVFN2xy04UzOs7P5u5KVfx5Z7uQisr8pXtyLd6SpTZo6SHgKBv15 uz0rqXhsJojiGtOXfWznAjaS5FUOORq9CklG5cMOUAT8TNftv0ktsxaWDL1ELDVQPy1m7mtz o+VREG+0xmU6AjMo/GHblW1UU7MI9yCiuMLsp/HLrFuiosqLVZ85wuLQ2junPe3tK8h15Ucx IXAcpQ1VqIaDQFbeuLOXJTF8YHpHdpHYt/ZM1ll7ZBKGAo8yd7uF7wJ9D3gUazwdz9fFjWV7 oIk7ATwOlFllzmWDn+M2ygbHOGUGMX5hSaa8eDSieiR2QoLdn27Fip7kMBTJ2+GISrfnJTN/ OQvmj0DXXAdxHmu2C4QgmZbkge35n129yzXn9NcqzrGLroV62lL3LgX6cSbiH5i7GgWY6CAP b1pMogV0K475n9FvOSDRiG4QSO5yqKiA3OP5aKrIRp2TNAk4IwARAQABtCZQZXRlciBTYWlu dC1BbmRyZSA8c3RwZXRlckBzdHBldGVyLmltPokCOQQTAQIAIwUCURMPOwIbAwcLCQgHAwIB BhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEOoGpJErxa2p6bgQAKpxu07cMDOLc4+EG8H19NWXIVVy bOEvfGuHYZaLKkPrhrMZwJiOwBpyISNRt9qzX1eLCVaojaoEVX6kD8MGc5zKFfiJZy3j7lBW l+Ybr7FfXYy2BbAXKx49e1n6ci9LmBrmVfAEaxtDNPITZ9N9oUAb9vS0nrG036EwteEHAveQ vlDjO7lhz6+Cv7lZQgBj9rZ6khfcQ4S3nSCQaKLQ9Iav4fqxI7SfuPKnx6quHX3JNLGnVo3w l+j/foCK0iTrmtHxCI3kc/bx6g32pRjHEPX0ALMBhmzU2uca+TE0zCEC96mgYXAUCwdnCFWy beIEbt6pz65iML13kAVAq0H/GqncnMGN0MbOatnw1Tdz/vkLojIy7QbPcQ0plUFxv5491xPf IrHhOWdRXp6WUt88fcqhT6MHZpVRtusj2ornKVVn+Y0GLsMMCTcrXJRG7Ao1YV72t/pJpzfG WSaaxolxDIZ6B+76jrIhUhiWgo/4nf+DN6BIlCZQ6j6xxjjx462cu02kuhIILTk2pzaMOufT BWx0uJhZk/KP2Fay/41pX7pvVOwRC4uIlKsLnJKLPS7EDa4BUUxENfd/9LqOGwlII8BbSe98 PLMI8sXkcigc3UXMVda9ll0YhQa+lbP1NaszmnBhwuiCsgnPGbImsJuRzgEEgckwP/dNeyr6 MlFMyfaeuQINBFETDzsBEADBzOsEHpUmhkRUjH9Tek87dn5P/Yh/L/HptgCGk40TL/C+kYdk d3HyteMEf061PNmsS/Rq8k37Fu3VODYb9SPYKxtgksKSYUtIkPKvao09K9QNWPqyWuNf0F+i AjVMUudaEVFJ7bHF310RDwLY5IvLeCXxtvG+Vv/i+g77d2WdPDp+zLJ8306C4yBKjSJV8xW0 cn2fd7NviIEN6cNHTsZNDZVMlgYPrxnwSq8GTEPGC7HsLIwGcx3hIe9QjnPw9CpAmQENpDEy WcxgF5uwo2NJECoDswKz1Nb0gfawF3ZIbD+GcLujTu94iJuVg25jATWm9wTgcfZo4UPllRGX dIb8uWwUFQlLQgd4ROLZZtXNGmHIymJrV2crx53gxup+1j0XqhlzKg8xbImWhEfS9oHZkRK8 VHgmWSIt7TNwNir6N5j3lqwWVBhnu6GzF01sKGNySlqNRbd0fqhakCkK71b8ot8tYTcYG5Lg 10z6HTbgQx2UwLthUjqbblDQ+GLmrOhiWklLXRsnlnPMwnEyFePAnsT5tasy2Cn9qjpttNDa h7PB8iFUi9mtTF/XDVgpFaB5G3CDV7Q2NgbAI6g6QhLIAmXzSP635G83mda0TKXHQXHDyLJT Tn+WVFU7t4m4uLt+0DsWU8jXHQWyUTNG9WPUrXhusDUAPHxFCQ/n/lQVBwARAQABiQIfBBgB AgAJBQJREw87AhsMAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pqfgP/ApN+TRu2bBIgaw1dr3AznSSha84DIpXUDh3 udZvQrGbUtz8/mA+e3iZEN/cmmBw2LGlAuQoJNILTZQ318yTP+E5QU7fJH7FVsohUyvrMfyt 3IMA9jg0Z9MuloLezvIjjMfFeNa0ROgDb/ubOT7JQzi1kwN8Lu3lO80HwqBHXEeOLoislUSn ZajRKvITbKWkZ6PHRjlMw1Wk4oIi6VLHgGgj79zzL3uhML2663m7imShvz1QcHTwvyR5i8cZ bNOEkotZyERiA1p7YHuruS+QvTi3ZPoQbnMUB3a7py9d11bw1+w3LiAUGZE/z5hBWOFxYtw+ w/U/Vx0BwJGYlwU3M2W20uEXe+qxz7wnakygKjmLiD2z4njfKjcNCiV3FmXrpmWgADln1c4j fxDh0NrndrsM8FPDf1TMPtOZgFDkKripc9xkZ/25P6xn27oTOHWKcAC0QhxSH+HuVBBRk8Ag F+zAbDZe4/L6+kanSrycIXW+wCzwBq61aWsz2QhhuKjozVkhk4dRG+CfjzAFjnyxwYERn3uX VKQAwTwcdNcTI9RV98IsNrw9Y4lJEAg6CjNPmiD5+EASycqaOuToRSGukr8sOQLWLPyTnez/ aG8Xf7a+fntWzK2HuDYoSDhJJrylWw/lMklOBm4wtMeNA0zcQH6AQV/GzQVQkSGqrLuMVIV/ Message-ID: <34a620db-c7ca-b28b-5dc6-4608809479ae@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 19:31:17 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <796ae78a-9bb7-e29a-42de-0ebea0585966@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 02:31:24 -0000 On 3/5/19 7:30 AM, Julian Reschke wrote: > On 05.03.2019 07:58, Hakala, Juha E wrote: >> Hello, >> >> from my point of view these namespace registrations are interesting, >> not least because I am currently involved revision of ISO 690, the ISO >> standard for bibliographic referencing. URNs for citing resources is >> something that needs to be considered in the revision process. >> >> I am in favour of registering these namespaces. The only reservation I >> have is the usage of "@" to separate subreferences. Would it be >> possible to use hash character for this purpose? >> >> At https://cite-architecture.github.io/ohco2/quick/ >> >> the researchers themselves give the following example: >> >> urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma#μῆνις >> >> which would be better aligned with RFCs 3986 and 8141. According to >> the request, there are no plans to make these URNs actionable, so in >> the short term it does not really matter which character is used, but >> if in the long term actionability becomes an issue, it is better not >> to divert from RFC 3986 unless there is a good reason to do so. >> ... > > How is using "#" (the fragment identifier) better aligned with RFC 3986??? Correct. '@' is in the pchar rule from RFC 3986, and RFC 8141 defines the NSS rule as one or more code points conforming to the pchar rule. Thus '@' is fine here, as far as I can see. Peter From nobody Wed Mar 6 19:55:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E5F130E57 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 19:55:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.933 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcastmailservice.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YdqupLDTFmOk for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 19:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F167128CF2 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 19:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-19v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.115]) by resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 1jwFh4u3Xdcv31k86hHAWG; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 03:55:34 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20180828_2048; t=1551930934; bh=+zaO+bKC94wFQPOYAqn/iVKyxJWfehfDU8prteGG+4U=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date: Message-ID; b=IYSe+JjXj9CkWhUDAewuD7WNPdzwoqjfTd07L4k5ZR5FTtwgRgxuqlF0lNd+Uz0Fo b2CUI3K2r/FeRCRA7GYt7k+dnhO3Brz++wbIvpli0pIriSKTgLHONSATnTP+RizYVW KOVM66MJPg2sbO11f7HD0Y/P0sW5+EmwHC/0h2F+MrfaI2aj/saE6+wClbGxecNMZm 9elqPj7B3rCHS/td63kQ+5KJgAd11wVlwb9+/Bd21vmekw7HL9zUi3HSVAS07iQELr /05L5fdmkoVbejpZY/VEOOSTishCIUUCYuvQIAEgPHpbJcNQwbKEYbF7oxRx5HpN2p KT0oGnN9KRa1w== Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-ch2-19v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id 1k85hQGrYEuGG1k85h59Ni; Thu, 07 Mar 2019 03:55:34 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=-100;st=legit Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x273tWZx024801; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 22:55:32 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id x273tVn1024798; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 22:55:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Peter Saint-Andre Cc: urn@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2019 22:55:31 -0500 Message-ID: <87bm2ncp8s.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 03:55:40 -0000 Comments on these registrations: As Julian points out, using '#' as part of the URN assigned-name is not allowed. CTS URN registration CTS URNs provide permanent, canonical, scholarly references to texts or passages of text associated with the unique cultural phenomena that humanists study. s/unique cultural phenomena/cultural phenomena/ -- I can't see any manner in which the enormous number of humanistic phenomena are each "unique". Syntax: The general structure of a CTS URN is as follows: urn:cts:SUBNAMESPACE:WORK:PASSAGE@SUBREFERENCE ... A detailed definition of CTS syntax can be found at: http://cite-architecture.org/ctsurn/ Unfortunately, neither this registration nor the pointed-to syntax definition gives an exact description of the syntax. E.g., at every location where I noticed a part of the syntax described as "optional", there was no exact statement regarding what adjacent separating characters could or could not be omitted. BNF is necessary. o An optional passage reference refers either to an individual passage or to a range of passages within a work. [...] o An optional subreference identifies a span within a single citation unit using indexed substrings. [...] No assignment process is specified for either of these components. CITE2 URN registration All of the above comments for CTS URN apply to CITE2 as well. Documentation: More detailed information about CTS URNs and the CTS architecture can be found at: Was "CITE2" intended here rather than "CTS"? 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Wed, 6 Mar 2019 23:02:14 -0500 (EST) To: "urn@ietf.org" References: From: Peter Saint-Andre Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=stpeter@stpeter.im; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFETDzsBEAC0FOv1N3ZJzIIxN6cKD475KVS9CHDPeYpegcOIPnL5eY1DCHeh/IwS1S7R CePtmiybNoV9FsI4PKUknzXQxA6LVEdAR/LUlhgJKjq+gsgp8lqbEILhg13ecH66HwLS9rar bQkC47T7kL8miIPBFC6E3A4Lq1L+eueO6UcLhKgoYkMxOjdiWrMgKTnVpch5ydLkPm/z0Zo8 zRgqlPuTLeCrXXZYnjHXLVFN2xy04UzOs7P5u5KVfx5Z7uQisr8pXtyLd6SpTZo6SHgKBv15 uz0rqXhsJojiGtOXfWznAjaS5FUOORq9CklG5cMOUAT8TNftv0ktsxaWDL1ELDVQPy1m7mtz o+VREG+0xmU6AjMo/GHblW1UU7MI9yCiuMLsp/HLrFuiosqLVZ85wuLQ2junPe3tK8h15Ucx IXAcpQ1VqIaDQFbeuLOXJTF8YHpHdpHYt/ZM1ll7ZBKGAo8yd7uF7wJ9D3gUazwdz9fFjWV7 oIk7ATwOlFllzmWDn+M2ygbHOGUGMX5hSaa8eDSieiR2QoLdn27Fip7kMBTJ2+GISrfnJTN/ OQvmj0DXXAdxHmu2C4QgmZbkge35n129yzXn9NcqzrGLroV62lL3LgX6cSbiH5i7GgWY6CAP b1pMogV0K475n9FvOSDRiG4QSO5yqKiA3OP5aKrIRp2TNAk4IwARAQABtCZQZXRlciBTYWlu dC1BbmRyZSA8c3RwZXRlckBzdHBldGVyLmltPokCOQQTAQIAIwUCURMPOwIbAwcLCQgHAwIB BhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEOoGpJErxa2p6bgQAKpxu07cMDOLc4+EG8H19NWXIVVy bOEvfGuHYZaLKkPrhrMZwJiOwBpyISNRt9qzX1eLCVaojaoEVX6kD8MGc5zKFfiJZy3j7lBW l+Ybr7FfXYy2BbAXKx49e1n6ci9LmBrmVfAEaxtDNPITZ9N9oUAb9vS0nrG036EwteEHAveQ vlDjO7lhz6+Cv7lZQgBj9rZ6khfcQ4S3nSCQaKLQ9Iav4fqxI7SfuPKnx6quHX3JNLGnVo3w l+j/foCK0iTrmtHxCI3kc/bx6g32pRjHEPX0ALMBhmzU2uca+TE0zCEC96mgYXAUCwdnCFWy beIEbt6pz65iML13kAVAq0H/GqncnMGN0MbOatnw1Tdz/vkLojIy7QbPcQ0plUFxv5491xPf IrHhOWdRXp6WUt88fcqhT6MHZpVRtusj2ornKVVn+Y0GLsMMCTcrXJRG7Ao1YV72t/pJpzfG WSaaxolxDIZ6B+76jrIhUhiWgo/4nf+DN6BIlCZQ6j6xxjjx462cu02kuhIILTk2pzaMOufT BWx0uJhZk/KP2Fay/41pX7pvVOwRC4uIlKsLnJKLPS7EDa4BUUxENfd/9LqOGwlII8BbSe98 PLMI8sXkcigc3UXMVda9ll0YhQa+lbP1NaszmnBhwuiCsgnPGbImsJuRzgEEgckwP/dNeyr6 MlFMyfaeuQINBFETDzsBEADBzOsEHpUmhkRUjH9Tek87dn5P/Yh/L/HptgCGk40TL/C+kYdk d3HyteMEf061PNmsS/Rq8k37Fu3VODYb9SPYKxtgksKSYUtIkPKvao09K9QNWPqyWuNf0F+i AjVMUudaEVFJ7bHF310RDwLY5IvLeCXxtvG+Vv/i+g77d2WdPDp+zLJ8306C4yBKjSJV8xW0 cn2fd7NviIEN6cNHTsZNDZVMlgYPrxnwSq8GTEPGC7HsLIwGcx3hIe9QjnPw9CpAmQENpDEy WcxgF5uwo2NJECoDswKz1Nb0gfawF3ZIbD+GcLujTu94iJuVg25jATWm9wTgcfZo4UPllRGX dIb8uWwUFQlLQgd4ROLZZtXNGmHIymJrV2crx53gxup+1j0XqhlzKg8xbImWhEfS9oHZkRK8 VHgmWSIt7TNwNir6N5j3lqwWVBhnu6GzF01sKGNySlqNRbd0fqhakCkK71b8ot8tYTcYG5Lg 10z6HTbgQx2UwLthUjqbblDQ+GLmrOhiWklLXRsnlnPMwnEyFePAnsT5tasy2Cn9qjpttNDa h7PB8iFUi9mtTF/XDVgpFaB5G3CDV7Q2NgbAI6g6QhLIAmXzSP635G83mda0TKXHQXHDyLJT Tn+WVFU7t4m4uLt+0DsWU8jXHQWyUTNG9WPUrXhusDUAPHxFCQ/n/lQVBwARAQABiQIfBBgB AgAJBQJREw87AhsMAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pqfgP/ApN+TRu2bBIgaw1dr3AznSSha84DIpXUDh3 udZvQrGbUtz8/mA+e3iZEN/cmmBw2LGlAuQoJNILTZQ318yTP+E5QU7fJH7FVsohUyvrMfyt 3IMA9jg0Z9MuloLezvIjjMfFeNa0ROgDb/ubOT7JQzi1kwN8Lu3lO80HwqBHXEeOLoislUSn ZajRKvITbKWkZ6PHRjlMw1Wk4oIi6VLHgGgj79zzL3uhML2663m7imShvz1QcHTwvyR5i8cZ bNOEkotZyERiA1p7YHuruS+QvTi3ZPoQbnMUB3a7py9d11bw1+w3LiAUGZE/z5hBWOFxYtw+ w/U/Vx0BwJGYlwU3M2W20uEXe+qxz7wnakygKjmLiD2z4njfKjcNCiV3FmXrpmWgADln1c4j fxDh0NrndrsM8FPDf1TMPtOZgFDkKripc9xkZ/25P6xn27oTOHWKcAC0QhxSH+HuVBBRk8Ag F+zAbDZe4/L6+kanSrycIXW+wCzwBq61aWsz2QhhuKjozVkhk4dRG+CfjzAFjnyxwYERn3uX VKQAwTwcdNcTI9RV98IsNrw9Y4lJEAg6CjNPmiD5+EASycqaOuToRSGukr8sOQLWLPyTnez/ aG8Xf7a+fntWzK2HuDYoSDhJJrylWw/lMklOBm4wtMeNA0zcQH6AQV/GzQVQkSGqrLuMVIV/ Message-ID: <1dd78448-e7af-b517-397f-e0ef1b99e042@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 21:02:13 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.5.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 04:02:25 -0000 On 3/4/19 11:58 PM, Hakala, Juha E wrote: > I am in favour of registering these namespaces. The only reservation I have is the usage of "@" to separate subreferences. Would it be possible to use hash character for this purpose? > > At https://cite-architecture.github.io/ohco2/quick/ > > the researchers themselves give the following example: > > urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma#μῆνις Parsing according to urn:cts:SUBNAMESPACE:WORK:PASSAGE@SUBREFERENCE as defined in the registration request, we get: SUBNAMESPACE = `greekLit` WORK = `tlg5026.msA.hmt` PASSAGE = `1.2.lemma#μῆνις` SUBREFERENCE (none) Is that correct? A follow-on observation. As the genesis of the CTS and CITE2 namespaces within the Homer Multitext project indicates, it might be desirable for literal strings in the NSS to include characters outside the ASCII range (e.g., `μῆνις`). I suspect that such strings would be limited to the PASSAGE and SUBREFERENCE constructs, but perhaps the registrants could clarify that for us. In any case, here it seems that "the nature of the particular URN namespace makes such characters necessary" (RFC 8141, §2.2). However, the same section of RFC 8141 also clearly states: In particular, with regard to characters outside the ASCII range, URNs that appear in protocols or that are passed between systems MUST use only Unicode characters encoded in UTF-8 and further encoded as required by RFC 3986. As far as I can see, this implies that the foregoing PASSAGE value needs to be encoded as follows: `1.2.lemma#%CE%BC%E1%BF%86%CE%BD%CE%B9%CF%82` Unfortunately, that's not as user-friendly for people who know the language of the source text from which the literal string is taken. (Yes, the URNBIS Working Group had lengthy discussions about whether to allow non-percent-encoded Unicode characters outside the ASCII range in the URN syntax, and ultimately decided against it.) Peter From nobody Wed Mar 6 23:10:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC69129532 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 23:10:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=helsinkifi.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GT6g1yjc_Zdy for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 23:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr40136.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.4.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0CE1130EA7 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2019 23:10:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=HelsinkiFI.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-helsinki-fi; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=f9THR4ssFXRhOEJGmFfTbi18nvWNTYVvlM1BvLSuzbE=; b=Z5+Q7Mu42+uORa/dCSGd8G35/m3qCPrV0WpNmUBq5VC219/6W3cJtMrPTuKWGvb3KwsxJZvXxwP/qy1WjFJAlPptOn2sDH14sZcUeo/btHQTsKNN73V3Go9A4USUr1P6CCLP3taw4YOpdY0aagRl0bCtQRl0I5NJ0r1o9RsWJsk= Received: from HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.244.159) by HE1PR07MB3338.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.247.13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1709.8; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 07:10:12 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7133:f14b:a79d:ed81]) by HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7133:f14b:a79d:ed81%4]) with mapi id 15.20.1686.016; Thu, 7 Mar 2019 07:10:12 +0000 From: "Hakala, Juha E" To: "Dale R. Worley" , Peter Saint-Andre CC: "urn@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs Thread-Index: AQHU0vYIGQ9tZXT+hUGQHHMUQWbng6X/jUuAgAAr8ZA= Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 07:10:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87bm2ncp8s.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> In-Reply-To: <87bm2ncp8s.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Accept-Language: fi-FI, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=juha.hakala@helsinki.fi; x-originating-ip: [128.214.147.95] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cf2aa427-1eaf-4eb1-2017-08d6a2cbf101 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(5600127)(711020)(4605104)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:HE1PR07MB3338; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR07MB3338: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 3 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-forefront-prvs: 096943F07A x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(396003)(376002)(136003)(366004)(39860400002)(346002)(13464003)(189003)(199004)(305945005)(7736002)(966005)(478600001)(4326008)(3846002)(25786009)(6116002)(8936002)(74316002)(86362001)(6246003)(102836004)(76176011)(26005)(7696005)(53376002)(256004)(6506007)(99286004)(66066001)(14454004)(52536013)(71200400001)(186003)(71190400001)(5660300002)(316002)(33656002)(486006)(110136005)(6436002)(786003)(55016002)(476003)(53936002)(97736004)(11346002)(81156014)(81166006)(8676002)(446003)(74482002)(105586002)(2906002)(106356001)(68736007)(9686003)(229853002)(6306002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB3338; H:HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: helsinki.fi does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: OPqisBIOVIYWB/3Mz9KQeFDL9KMtAWEVKHRhX8NgZqS+uMoMzMg8TL8FLOyyXfDychrl31ZJmPx1HGIxQQC6bzS1yH/ywsRz0QuqMw02OguDhIdGmNigoQDUryRfvIjYYD9sdW6T4eetFE2z41i18PPqm6ddYMiARauuKfWncv2P3qvEwnwA902FEMynWyLLcWeHKWB3YmqEQXUlLlcWdZGYUOUAgKFGALep6bpjY0FSAYvQjfF6rwi6MXMzG4tr2GORnpm1d9Et2kHzXcL7ucU7lEHsvDkadG0/S9hQbFFA1xg9NtSuJ5ClKs39aIWt/c3qVBYxLIhSoIqZkIbfA/wRgfJ/Bvt16zcvATNMoBAYXAJzACb29ZEAGTUOtCPQSTUUuQVcy3Fx8zJsr3lUEpzz02rWqdxlIzWrjWs93tE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: helsinki.fi X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cf2aa427-1eaf-4eb1-2017-08d6a2cbf101 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Mar 2019 07:10:12.3566 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98ae7559-10dc-4288-8e2e-4593e62fe3ee X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3338 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2019 07:10:20 -0000 Hello,=20 detailed CTS URN syntax specification and examples at=20 http://cite-architecture.github.io/ctsurn_spec/ are helpful, at least for a librarian, although URN like=20 urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0012.tlg001.hmt01:10.4@Atreus-10.10@trembling does make even me tremble a bit ;-). =20 The specification is based on RFC 2141 (it is dated February 2014). It migh= t be a good idea to check if this version (2.0.rc.1) could benefit in one w= ay or another from being made RFC 8141 -compliant. These URNs will not be a= ctionable so it does not really matter if subreferences are treated as URN = F-components (as I suggested) or not, but if the specification can easily b= e made more compliant with the current URN syntax, it would make no harm.=20 Non-ascii characters in subreferences would be an issue if urn:cts and urn:= cite2 provided resolution services. But that is not an intention, and since= these URNs are intended mainly for humans, I would rather leave non-ascii = chars un-encoded although that is against RFC 8141 (but not RFC 2141, if I = remember correctly). =20 Best,=20 Juha -----Original Message----- From: urn On Behalf Of Dale R. Worley Sent: torstai 7. maaliskuuta 2019 5.56 To: Peter Saint-Andre Cc: urn@ietf.org Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs Comments on these registrations: As Julian points out, using '#' as part of the URN assigned-name is not all= owed. CTS URN registration CTS URNs provide permanent, canonical, scholarly references to texts or passages of text associated with the unique cultural phenomena that humanists study. s/unique cultural phenomena/cultural phenomena/ -- I can't see any manner i= n which the enormous number of humanistic phenomena are each "unique". Syntax: The general structure of a CTS URN is as follows: urn:cts:SUBNAMESPACE:WORK:PASSAGE@SUBREFERENCE ... A detailed definition of CTS syntax can be found at: http://cite-architecture.org/ctsurn/ Unfortunately, neither this registration nor the pointed-to syntax definiti= on gives an exact description of the syntax. E.g., at every location where= I noticed a part of the syntax described as "optional", there was no exact= statement regarding what adjacent separating characters could or could not= be omitted. BNF is necessary. o An optional passage reference refers either to an individual passage or to a range of passages within a work. [...] o An optional subreference identifies a span within a single citation unit using indexed substrings. [...] No assignment process is specified for either of these components. CITE2 URN registration All of the above comments for CTS URN apply to CITE2 as well. Documentation: More detailed information about CTS URNs and the CTS architecture can be found at: Was "CITE2" intended here rather than "CTS"? 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:TYAPR01MB4302; H:TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:0; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: it.aoyama.ac.jp does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: aBfKKf2Fe4jC4gJn6oaLaDOXQ42rw6WeDD2y+lgtKoanxBBBmi5hDu7KvX4NSPivfMI+VBmph+BDTAsimOe70qXEcz2xBW3Jv/kwRES6NV1yn8CpakGfgE1nACaV3ta4yan0KTitxzXwrsnFGL9HD41GJGpBrHmkGBc1eR6XKcJcew2BJMmWMwJYV4ZHyD5qSayPC1XrXiyd4ymziUfyqtdVEQqdrxu8ufAOag09ZlYBMxCttgxA6QvXWmsE6bYXud5keGXWFZUBlAruxwtIu2S4Ges15MDs2nNHOO3UCPVDpS/ZjGSOnbdJ4MLZReZy7HhTu5TLQT0Gd1/nh0RioP+Obfc/0hCEx7ra5uFtPq7r+BgjgQ/+L4WIiPrJUOol/CHIF+eYO0ge1/3sVA3ucu5EXopsN1SeLHRxo6gcL7k= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <60E13B1DA56E354DA6444AF0440D0889@jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: it.aoyama.ac.jp X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6771c289-bdbd-4983-cb49-08d6ae889849 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Mar 2019 05:38:21.5663 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: e02030e7-4d45-463e-a968-0290e738c18e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: TYAPR01MB4302 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 05:38:27 -0000 SGVsbG8gUGV0ZXIsIG90aGVycywNCg0KU29ycnkgdG8gcmVwbHkgdG8gYW4gb2xkZXIgZW1haWwu DQoNCk9uIDIwMTkvMDMvMDcgMTM6MDIsIFBldGVyIFNhaW50LUFuZHJlIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBPbiAz LzQvMTkgMTE6NTggUE0sIEhha2FsYSwgSnVoYSBFIHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4+IEkgYW0gaW4gZmF2 b3VyIG9mIHJlZ2lzdGVyaW5nIHRoZXNlIG5hbWVzcGFjZXMuIFRoZSBvbmx5IHJlc2VydmF0aW9u IEkgaGF2ZSBpcyB0aGUgdXNhZ2Ugb2YgIkAiIHRvIHNlcGFyYXRlIHN1YnJlZmVyZW5jZXMuIFdv dWxkIGl0IGJlIHBvc3NpYmxlIHRvIHVzZSBoYXNoIGNoYXJhY3RlciBmb3IgdGhpcyBwdXJwb3Nl Pw0KPj4NCj4+IEF0IGh0dHBzOi8vY2l0ZS1hcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUuZ2l0aHViLmlvL29oY28yL3F1 aWNrLw0KPj4NCj4+IHRoZSByZXNlYXJjaGVycyB0aGVtc2VsdmVzIGdpdmUgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2lu ZyBleGFtcGxlOg0KPj4NCj4+IHVybjpjdHM6Z3JlZWtMaXQ6dGxnNTAyNi5tc0EuaG10OjEuMi5s ZW1tYSPOvOG/hs69zrnPgg0KDQo+IEEgZm9sbG93LW9uIG9ic2VydmF0aW9uLiBBcyB0aGUgZ2Vu ZXNpcyBvZiB0aGUgQ1RTIGFuZCBDSVRFMiBuYW1lc3BhY2VzDQo+IHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgSG9tZXIg TXVsdGl0ZXh0IHByb2plY3QgaW5kaWNhdGVzLCBpdCBtaWdodCBiZSBkZXNpcmFibGUgZm9yDQo+ IGxpdGVyYWwgc3RyaW5ncyBpbiB0aGUgTlNTIHRvIGluY2x1ZGUgY2hhcmFjdGVycyBvdXRzaWRl IHRoZSBBU0NJSSByYW5nZQ0KPiAoZS5nLiwgYM684b+Gzr3Ouc+CYCkuIEkgc3VzcGVjdCB0aGF0 IHN1Y2ggc3RyaW5ncyB3b3VsZCBiZSBsaW1pdGVkIHRvIHRoZQ0KPiBQQVNTQUdFIGFuZCBTVUJS RUZFUkVOQ0UgY29uc3RydWN0cywgYnV0IHBlcmhhcHMgdGhlIHJlZ2lzdHJhbnRzIGNvdWxkDQo+ IGNsYXJpZnkgdGhhdCBmb3IgdXMuIEluIGFueSBjYXNlLCBoZXJlIGl0IHNlZW1zIHRoYXQgInRo ZSBuYXR1cmUgb2YgdGhlDQo+IHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgVVJOIG5hbWVzcGFjZSBtYWtlcyBzdWNoIGNo YXJhY3RlcnMgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IiAoUkZDIDgxNDEsIMKnMi4yKS4NCj4gDQo+IEhvd2V2ZXIsIHRo ZSBzYW1lIHNlY3Rpb24gb2YgUkZDIDgxNDEgYWxzbyBjbGVhcmx5IHN0YXRlczoNCj4gDQo+ICAg ICBJbiBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyLCB3aXRoIHJlZ2FyZCB0byBjaGFyYWN0ZXJzIG91dHNpZGUgdGhlIEFT Q0lJIHJhbmdlLA0KPiAgICAgVVJOcyB0aGF0IGFwcGVhciBpbiBwcm90b2NvbHMgb3IgdGhhdCBh cmUgcGFzc2VkIGJldHdlZW4gc3lzdGVtcyBNVVNUDQo+ICAgICB1c2Ugb25seSBVbmljb2RlIGNo YXJhY3RlcnMgZW5jb2RlZCBpbiBVVEYtOCBhbmQgZnVydGhlciBlbmNvZGVkIGFzDQo+ICAgICBy ZXF1aXJlZCBieSBSRkMgMzk4Ni4NCj4gDQo+IEFzIGZhciBhcyBJIGNhbiBzZWUsIHRoaXMgaW1w bGllcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBmb3JlZ29pbmcgUEFTU0FHRSB2YWx1ZSBuZWVkcw0KPiB0byBiZSBlbmNv ZGVkIGFzIGZvbGxvd3M6DQo+IA0KPiBgMS4yLmxlbW1hIyVDRSVCQyVFMSVCRiU4NiVDRSVCRCVD RSVCOSVDRiU4MmANCj4gDQo+IFVuZm9ydHVuYXRlbHksIHRoYXQncyBub3QgYXMgdXNlci1mcmll bmRseSBmb3IgcGVvcGxlIHdobyBrbm93IHRoZQ0KPiBsYW5ndWFnZSBvZiB0aGUgc291cmNlIHRl eHQgZnJvbSB3aGljaCB0aGUgbGl0ZXJhbCBzdHJpbmcgaXMgdGFrZW4uDQo+IA0KPiAoWWVzLCB0 aGUgVVJOQklTIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAgaGFkIGxlbmd0aHkgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMgYWJvdXQgd2hl dGhlciB0bw0KPiBhbGxvdyBub24tcGVyY2VudC1lbmNvZGVkIFVuaWNvZGUgY2hhcmFjdGVycyBv dXRzaWRlIHRoZSBBU0NJSSByYW5nZSBpbg0KPiB0aGUgVVJOIHN5bnRheCwgYW5kIHVsdGltYXRl bHkgZGVjaWRlZCBhZ2FpbnN0IGl0LikNCg0KV2VsbCwgYWxsIFVSTnMgYXJlIFVSSXMgKFJGQyAz OTg2KSwgYW5kIGZvciBVUklzLCB0aGVyZSdzIElSSXMgKFJGQyANCjM5ODcpLCBzbyB1cm46Y3Rz OmdyZWVrTGl0OnRsZzUwMjYubXNBLmhtdDoxLjIubGVtbWEjzrzhv4bOvc65z4Igd291bGQgd29y ayBpbiANCmFueSBwcm90b2NvbCBzbG90IHRoYXQgYWNjZXB0ZWQgSVJJcywgYW5kIHdvdWxkIGF1 dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgYmUgDQpjb252ZXJ0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIHVnbHkgDQp1cm46Y3RzOmdyZWVrTGl0 OnRsZzUwMjYubXNBLmhtdDoxLjIubGVtbWEjJUNFJUJDJUUxJUJGJTg2JUNFJUJEJUNFJUI5JUNG JTgyIA0Kd2hlbmV2ZXIgbmVjZXNzYXJ5Lg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLCAgIE1hcnRpbi4NCg== From nobody Sun Mar 24 15:17:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3354F12015E for ; 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Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:16:58 -0400 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id x2OMGwsm005844; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:16:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: urn@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <1ff8581d-4f29-c6af-a275-c9de064224cc@it.aoyama.ac.jp> (duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 18:16:58 -0400 Message-ID: <87k1gnncit.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 22:17:10 -0000 The situation we are in as one of conflicing requirements: (1) the need for URNs to absolutely follow the standard (RFC 8141), and (2) the need for them to be human-convenient. One way to square this circle would be to define two forms which are in one-to-one correspondence: If it starts with "urn:", it is in URN format, and if it starts with "cts:" or "cite2:", it is in human-friendly format. For example, we could define these two strings to be equivalent: cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma#=CE=BC=E1=BF=86=CE=BD=CE=B9=CF=82 urn:cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma@%CE%BC%E1%BF%86%CE%BD%CE%B9%= CF%82=20 As long as this correspondence is algorithmicly defined, it shouldn't be difficult to implement. The latter proper URN can probably be translated into an IRI that would show the final characers in the native Greek alphabet, but I don't know enough about IRIs to know how that would work. Dale From nobody Sun Mar 24 16:03:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9706120196 for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:03:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.923 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.923 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=itaoyama.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RuK6UKRH4oof for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from JPN01-TY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr1400119.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.140.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D1DB12016B for ; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:03:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=itaoyama.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-it-aoyama-ac-jp; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=czDcEGEmLNgnS058vggSekb0K5CYr5SqGU76HVfQzgA=; b=fO+z5j0qfA1pbcuw/7qGmq740ChjVHQwjgkVnR7Q8U4Ns8UAhEcm3o/9IC+5RaZPXiwkuzn8ATAAZoxtAo+jCbRkJEOC/lGkan/n7n4iEn4OTQOSn3hs447y/CGNApkyKo+cqVkpBawGWVdErCnhpmYmEHUsaq77lYi1/gTF3/k= Received: from TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (20.179.187.18) by TYAPR01MB2222.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (52.133.179.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1730.18; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 23:03:15 +0000 Received: from TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::98b6:d90e:9ae7:302]) by TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::98b6:d90e:9ae7:302%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1730.019; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 23:03:15 +0000 From: =?utf-8?B?TWFydGluIEouIETDvHJzdA==?= To: "Dale R. Worley" , "urn@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs Thread-Index: AQHU4o9XZG3Tv97sRUidS4aKPjhy4aYbZmYA Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 23:03:14 +0000 Message-ID: <6428fe9f-9eb3-b89e-34a8-f285edbee1ec@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <87k1gnncit.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> In-Reply-To: <87k1gnncit.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-clientproxiedby: TY2PR06CA0029.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:404:2e::17) To TYAPR01MB5149.jpnprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:404:12e::18) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [223.218.133.122] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f25f38bd-f833-454e-c2e6-08d6b0ace551 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(7021145)(8989299)(4534185)(7022145)(4603075)(4627221)(201702281549075)(8990200)(7048125)(7024125)(7025125)(7027125)(7023125)(5600127)(711020)(4605104)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); 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Worley" , urn@ietf.org References: <87k1gnncit.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: <95ce9e3b-4564-230c-5795-0c3386dfe987@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 07:21:35 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87k1gnncit.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:7kmYETIDEDrUapXTUkkXopb5FPVAlkUDHeyYni1tgJy3SbrExSm oQju8K0aUUvRASzJHPHQUYgbluJyUhu2DHR5miS9YO8632EtMq5IitNwiYEs2eUR5ZqFj9K gX6eU2IzTIiMtUoeAdEHdLezPUhwnI2ZizED3nmn3VCH5vqpXn0CpcCJah6jnxc7p9VQrZg Z2PeWXinZkZmNcCAPC4fw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:1L6cdSWr7lI=:x2C1Wu0BjvbMhtjH/rkT6D k3OdlM2X70uLwquKMNaUFXAgNQq6ZQIe2YfY62ySWP839aqDF0KDElDIpKlz2nCEy8D+aKVqK Fv/z/03ReOVUEJaRrTza6WqEs6jEHTO6gEwEK/Ss9xiEPF5ombEI1aETBcvugqjg99SjX2Lxk 2BGY246U6X5ZMyuoJrxKVcA7O4EFJiH8gn4DaOjInnu+9m5doZeeEf+LbiqPUXCApP5mYwp2m xZXnz24SE630CTzL7z7boAivF8s2eWxfRFXkLYgFwz5YW4KHG/yq2vm2tzczm1Sz8e7/eSsjA eUkk6AN8SISshczI7VASURsj2rHmNjpMLciT50e8+ekEigAGHoKotlUHLWIbTR3tWQwJgMIeD 64Ga7tIXMdVLCJk7ewC+wFvt/6RS+LLGk/UGSL1dDszgTe/4MbO6AhuT9fsrXkcQyWltcjJM3 BBohUvLKRH3R/owUFG+vBmrU/5cxpeX2Iv+B8d+aw/JK29IL2mnVEVXFAWIPqKe6eIlCX8Rpv 561Cst/uFz7OqScY3BxUsFDJxnO/AcjyAZNJyrEAu6WMAF4xRjWbzkV0ImlEvlByRpT9TsE/k wYEtqkPtziw4R49ICwk7C5Bykk4J49YfrUfaOQQ/zCOBZce/CdEcBU8BVMbSsEGvMWLtY/l3I iKPtJOVKYcl8FEY4RuZqziKGmWDXz1UAonH6/i6ChqS9IUezXCVuYFqQuFXvb51M+BsHNLAz+ fHYig+4MdJ2skh1FuZLucIkNjbfFd5bTxST1Qc12jzc3h5PUS/+TWlvv6HIPeY+ASx3eIB5Oa LXQCIXcWdGOdd6WS7Hacid/7A2Yishsr9axmspbPVO6dhhKbTaE0Qvn9JN2jgnO76kHWvn3g6 NpXS8VE7GMJFDbVOv3wz5s6boUHwRL9ypX0J3OoPxZotqe/nXBrYHtr2vZbsry09A/vxIolKH WP1UbhJDdwg== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 06:21:52 -0000 On 24.03.2019 23:16, Dale R. Worley wrote: > The situation we are in as one of conflicing requirements: (1) the need > for URNs to absolutely follow the standard (RFC 8141), and (2) the need > for them to be human-convenient. > > One way to square this circle would be to define two forms which are in > one-to-one correspondence: If it starts with "urn:", it is in URN > format, and if it starts with "cts:" or "cite2:", it is in > human-friendly format. For example, we could define these two strings > to be equivalent: > > cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma#=CE=BC=E1=BF=86=CE=BD=CE=B9= =CF=82 > > ... Even if it doesn't claim to be a RFC8141-URN, it would still need to be a RFC3986-URI (right?); and the same restrictions would apply. If you need non-URI-characters, just leverage RFC 3987. Best regards, Julian From nobody Mon Mar 25 17:58:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C321C1201D5 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:57:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.933 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.933 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcastmailservice.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jtsu5E9FdIGT for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCDC11201B9 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.101]) by resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 8Y5ZhmyKOlyrQ8aPUhiPpB; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 00:57:48 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20180828_2048; t=1553561868; bh=qYAg106qbw2ToMO5PPFjCMaXe9yoMXi7XFJIJuSFg7o=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date: Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=GE3EmlJHvw9cVOyVpKgP3dmVV01N2mHnZbSZ2sm00C2s1IqD6PhWrkmwHR3FuzcDQ 9yJY8r2ZRYD0JoVksWlngYbCXqBmDqKoe+3oxI8ootBzaJxDKKcv9FoYlar8cKcdaG JlCiAdEh2gBiUYd7FQ0qTJemA61kYjEmzLGzR+zvq9Okvqkocyl5UADYS73xCH1bi3 WkO5EB6rZvyUzNNHTOKIqy4ySfaipG3UUshSGSbc5roIn64qlDasiHPkkMRH+11zTV 9tr4Vzl30LtnsCE1z3FAHDLqCmBnz6Xu/jlUyHp5j504/ug1TDQ72ZD2Yt1NGNhr3s qKuXdPMHhc+kw== Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4603:9471:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id 8aPTh0BpQI2UZ8aPUh3sIl; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 00:57:48 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=-100;st=legit Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id x2Q0vkHV019779; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 20:57:46 -0400 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id x2Q0vjq6019776; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 20:57:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Julian Reschke Cc: urn@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <95ce9e3b-4564-230c-5795-0c3386dfe987@gmx.de> (julian.reschke@gmx.de) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 20:57:45 -0400 Message-ID: <87wokmlaeu.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 00:58:05 -0000 Julian Reschke writes: >> cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma#=CE=BC=E1=BF=86=CE=BD=CE=B9= =CF=82 > Even if it doesn't claim to be a RFC8141-URN, it would still need to be > a RFC3986-URI (right?); and the same restrictions would apply. My conceptualization is that the above string *isn't* intended to be a URI of any sort; it's a different type of citation entirely. That gives the scholars leeway to make it convenient for themselves. Dale From nobody Mon Mar 25 23:23:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B8AE120287 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:23:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5OjepDZHQA-g for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D87E120286 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:23:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1553581383; bh=3vb0L0aLFXttC8Ib3qWoj9ONrqugPHfSMX0qgxB4IW4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=itU8rpf8PrwSjqFysxos5juW9SPIgKhHAjQTFGkGqOjAG+XfJzqeDtbcY8xvnO50Y x0VKk9B36U3A/akRJQT4pztCSX6c7nIENt4phYpa4J9Pj8VUWeEag9D2SN+HZ9mZVE +nvRfc7ItzeFUuD6O8gksvT9sm6SyTKgDapfcc8k= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.118] ([85.70.71.163]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx003 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MQyxa-1hYULR1Dsk-00UNeJ; Tue, 26 Mar 2019 07:23:03 +0100 To: "Dale R. Worley" Cc: urn@ietf.org References: <87wokmlaeu.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> From: Julian Reschke Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 07:23:03 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87wokmlaeu.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:XWf9tix7rp4+Ez07bEvy1qPURHkeugYXf3FmSuuiVwjSprLNmfP /FYW17+yT9fnahYW3xW2lCtSBk6KSc7tBbzuwb0jmLAzh2983xLl5ywS6ggMca7CUx8qOqB 6rLm00HhdYAkmo/cd4Hgx451Z/d5gFnYZfsTwzPYtUto3vvMq3cdVeByv5PVnKwmKFTO1Ai tKlOfNiAxqAS+0vsn7jQQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:VGfupbz5HIU=:n3C39jYrkVIBpkXORF6saG Lgn85wz2Z3zXVK7bRAwhGIUY6+S8zXfEfywZG0r9bW9Kb1VcUmjtHrqBNAbMK8HMU9R252usp ZBcbKvOeN022Iv1hmTwdx9OFnkdJLgE+L4hhSB4mrdKlOknGN3el9ic1m1//Fzn7yChLS/gis aQ+IcbbB3uNJiAt4LOt3RzsH/3tfZZG1MwKmPkclbtHnt6Kd2D1rCcq6qf8uLHYzV9YUfLUHl g4rTCbBErK9mYoQw/zEdKvMEOFmLa8awi1tJu+a+rCf3Z/wL3zUDyGCXr6nHtA3KSEKY6nSCy z4hpX4TEa0Mxik5QNcirOs8YhY/G69pmYVYl8kE7lu4RVB8Z7whTJWu4TNOetb2XPE4QMeP7Q juYyyoKflGTiWrMRAb87f6dyV2fLBCOTlLaXPTUt7+LnDiU/ZsmK9l6d7ow8tNLvoAnA3LhtD zfZ2wroprCA1FBPUeDQaW82BAM50PvpzlyRa0xnKOCuhULYRHmQug9vpySdApfDPnpMov0MkK 9kp50djVmj/reFmdbK6qn50twBP8ikAZLpHQO6gSoqoremJnZa4Qv4xvj1QH9IQhgJzQMDxzL corDO5RNYQICkCnKfxnwqXg4g18m5/z7NgPZy0rZHuiB7KfrjS3w9yHAaAaLFb8QT0Ldg+am5 yPEZYmItYzoDIlMblipjeh8sNp24cZpA29QEuKfDDzglI6m0wdnD+lo8X4Af7efpI1VmhNB+C mBKd3WmeSpIQoj0/jRenpCZviWmgF/Q71DmhOGa2zhTS6XIVs6t0kJX0E0DrXR07Sa3ltecSZ c77qXxZD7uHUqfmHLWfWvYGzSKxBWJcUzq3dLml2solhqmCZhDOyzcCKopyOYWGgKpxgp2zgr yDmiFRSZH5NVq9fWTLvTvyHUQos67BtMN+mJqKWgSGCaQaFq26SIm30G1QkFOWkb+MDcWh6vk c9k3RW7f1OA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] CTS and CITE2 URNs X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2019 06:23:20 -0000 On 26.03.2019 01:57, Dale R. Worley wrote: > Julian Reschke writes: >>> cts:greekLit:tlg5026.msA.hmt:1.2.lemma#=CE=BC=E1=BF=86=CE=BD=CE= =B9=CF=82 > >> Even if it doesn't claim to be a RFC8141-URN, it would still need to be >> a RFC3986-URI (right?); and the same restrictions would apply. > > My conceptualization is that the above string *isn't* intended to be a > URI of any sort; it's a different type of citation entirely. That gives > the scholars leeway to make it convenient for themselves. > > Dale It sure looks like something that would be used in place of a URI or IRI..= . Best regards, Julian