From nobody Sun Nov 3 06:10:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D86B120089 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 06:10:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.684 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.684 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcastmailservice.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CeW2zII8lrJx for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 06:10:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D74D120033 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 06:10:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from resomta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.102]) by resqmta-ch2-09v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id RGPAirkntkltDRGaYidhFA; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:10:42 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcastmailservice.net; s=20180828_2048; t=1572790242; bh=4dCdg9m2eVjJBLsxQJxXzsFMoBqTNgFRvIppURDJ8Xw=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date: Message-ID; b=dUc4X1tPtMVckqLQqpMdxLoVTHZB2Le+X0MCsZZ487teEyFjNO2a3QJluD/aMPLgg bWZ3Cup8Usolib+iDFKRgJReIhD5GLK3hx4oK7+DII2JnA3oW4siLGiiymtXh5wYuC JFcGIQA4/NhkK4DROsUfBH0ezU8smSJahSTGnXyRpo+UYOFW/Vk9bvlrp4Xvk4yxGW LtbVWPyuP8xNfuMPyXL6hNCpifQmRdDzWgyqihJa/2AgsG9ID8OFd3vAsp60zKbU0c tZnBd0e58MENposL72U7RazTJDx5jJ5JExwsSc0QjLZGqkzHXYVCzxq+lOqfP37IAr dGBmYU/eqT9fA== Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com ([IPv6:2601:192:4600:1e00:222:fbff:fe91:d396]) by resomta-ch2-06v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id RGaWiabazcvPrRGaXixhQR; Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:10:42 +0000 X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0.00;st=legit Received: from hobgoblin.ariadne.com (hobgoblin.ariadne.com [127.0.0.1]) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id xA3EB6Vu019263; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 09:11:06 -0500 Received: (from worley@localhost) by hobgoblin.ariadne.com (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id xA3EB5LN019256; Sun, 3 Nov 2019 09:11:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: hobgoblin.ariadne.com: worley set sender to worley@alum.mit.edu using -f From: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) To: Sam DeBord Cc: duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp, urn@ietf.org In-Reply-To: (sam@reso.org) Sender: worley@ariadne.com (Dale R. Worley) Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 09:11:05 -0500 Message-ID: <87k18h9hja.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] Namespace application: reso X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2019 14:10:46 -0000 It may be that I read this document too quickly, but I got the impression that it is completely *valid*, but it doesn't tell me anything, as far as I can tell, as to what these URNs will really be used for. Even to the point that I've never heard of the "Real Estate Standards Organization" or what it does. Does it produce a series of standards that are used in the real world? Where in those standards would these URNs be used? Simimlarly, the proposed syntax is just that the URNs have to be valid URNs. It doesn't hint that you've got any detailed plan in mind. Dale From nobody Mon Nov 4 03:01:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B0D51200FE for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 03:01:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=helsinkifi.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Re2hxv7Xr3dW for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 03:01:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr00092.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.0.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B21D1200E6 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 03:01:35 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=iz9rWwRse7P6eo44Hd80LOggj5CZxEfMwjBA45XgVXvoUz09DNik44XWThpYejygaLjVOm3PHJO26hXVnMMFlYJLFmBBk29KdUnMkn/plPNqxu/yRhdLlsPnuglO2jwrKkG/qgiOXAD1S/UDES0NQyewgbwb3+vkjSgv/sLFeskwg29tDSg1nPSdCY7TObCwpkMC9BEkH7ILs3CO4kEtRWuPc8O6Etv3dT1X4OLtdsoq2tm+fbYiDehKA3PVeuUQNEhY7+dTpJo374JHrcdkfJAEcQGBGoYYRfeR4HW+POWU8azIItM2AGEvi3TNzgSCYEo4d5yv0kVIVFjUtwEYqw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=0dzjDLufP/9674To+67KtzsQGu2GCQRpTGedHF33LaE=; b=dtffAX9ORt9O4Z4Jo8lpIvGEfZzBZBkJPiGEh66x1BpcFWXXDR48QPoeM6txic3qHZZnqExLgsb+G6Zp80r0mPQNX7CcO2tvT+qFAY4KQyt2oJLm+DpGBC/6C+jWW0eeGuR89wEIHwiKAzNwf3UXcMswC/1ZkGkC3KkDP5WGfM1+rPKl1bNcfmzRG0uTPw1I+VCeGKFQnXEA9ky1UQIf1L3s7q4PTMBByGdSh/kZprC3BGeESz5qOUI7AKBEYYWNFE8pcPC/bw8XQ4VYu5+kkXDn5FgaiCfBzys2Wlz5vt+qy4hiCtEOAhVZ3xCKzO/uQUMSruNZo8GP1BvMHNFg3Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=helsinki.fi; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=helsinki.fi; dkim=pass header.d=helsinki.fi; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=HelsinkiFI.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-HelsinkiFI-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=0dzjDLufP/9674To+67KtzsQGu2GCQRpTGedHF33LaE=; b=GbJZhSG8tGeK35dlsesA7dUvMjA8sOTAxVchfERzxuqnvmSXdXb7tUtsScsBTB4cjm3c0nzNNer7XXoQctUBXs7L+F2Kx2c7tXHLTF383VxHPqJf9Z1yEuEaPLXE3pFJaOoQo19E6B22lxfwUK9WVoLxWeoYvRM63aXirSEF3kM= Received: from HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.244.159) by HE1PR07MB4394.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.176.167.31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2430.16; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:01:31 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a59a:84ef:56c6:d82f]) by HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a59a:84ef:56c6:d82f%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2408.016; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:01:31 +0000 From: "Hakala, Juha E" To: "Dale R. Worley" , Sam DeBord CC: "urn@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [urn] Namespace application: reso Thread-Index: AQHVklCHSLpJdzn/okSfuOcSbdiio6d62KLQ Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:01:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: (sam@reso.org) <87k18h9hja.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> In-Reply-To: <87k18h9hja.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: fi-FI X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=juha.hakala@helsinki.fi; x-originating-ip: [128.214.147.95] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 720fc52a-fbdf-4612-6f27-08d7611659b0 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR07MB4394: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 0211965D06 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(979002)(4636009)(136003)(396003)(39860400002)(346002)(366004)(376002)(189003)(199004)(102836004)(33656002)(25786009)(2906002)(4326008)(786003)(316002)(76116006)(66446008)(966005)(64756008)(66556008)(6436002)(14454004)(110136005)(256004)(478600001)(66476007)(71190400001)(66946007)(6306002)(55016002)(6116002)(71200400001)(3846002)(9686003)(14444005)(486006)(186003)(99286004)(7696005)(8936002)(66066001)(26005)(66574012)(6506007)(5660300002)(81166006)(81156014)(76176011)(52536014)(74316002)(7736002)(305945005)(8676002)(476003)(86362001)(11346002)(446003)(969003)(989001)(999001)(1009001)(1019001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB4394; H:HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: helsinki.fi does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: YJFI2ZiE7AOhg1QlBea9ApTuCNF6OXNKgCPjWf1S8NJmLgFpgcki6qQFgdUZst4qVnSUYstTcInaaI8bKPweBz/gc7j/z5r1FORytzxRf9Bx+EASm707JaLP3tLh+qSGaBSF9bnAviOFLnN149sfpngiacJnu3+yoUinxKBM7zHFaW8vkO95DKbdgwCBqxd2BFvFiF34Xu2ClowEZxAeYjD+ENIFEbCnDCreddt+6XA1uZHYfgB5ya/n8rpS6dU2ImcVObv37AnhYouxoGCSP3TfGodXW8vA+yHohDxh0wgdHKJIDm9p3aJQIYKirv384KgdQhbQuivGAkIV0gmogn7+DhNPwSzFiYHueviwe81sjzCdyHL2Zi3yzIN7qcjate4ijHnHFupnlnQL6Mb1wBAtlocXjlgU/YMZG5OH31g93RY21N+0p1KvwjdaSio/z16z6dCmkQDaQHmpvhPZaqitv/QGFLhxx6wn53dqhiA= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: helsinki.fi X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 720fc52a-fbdf-4612-6f27-08d7611659b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Nov 2019 11:01:31.6985 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98ae7559-10dc-4288-8e2e-4593e62fe3ee X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: EO8v7BWij/XG7LgC4roWYz3AVFQzveCd/t0TU6hZKJr+OxB07tUDORtP6ReeUBgR0SboAQjNExV7ZnmT7bLfjw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB4394 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] Namespace application: reso X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2019 11:01:40 -0000 Hello,=20 I checked the RESO web site, and there is standardization (and other) activ= ity which would benefit from URN assignment, such as (IMO) IDX data standar= d. However, the registration request should provide some background informa= tion so that it would not be necessary to retrieve it from somewhere else.= =20 Also, some examples of URNs to be assigned would give us better idea of the= plans.=20 All the best,=20 Juha -----Alkuper=E4inen viesti----- L=E4hett=E4j=E4: urn Puolesta Dale R. Worley L=E4hetetty: sunnuntai 3. marraskuuta 2019 16.11 Vastaanottaja: Sam DeBord Kopio: urn@ietf.org Aihe: Re: [urn] Namespace application: reso It may be that I read this document too quickly, but I got the impression t= hat it is completely *valid*, but it doesn't tell me anything, as far as I = can tell, as to what these URNs will really be used for. Even to the point that I've never heard of the "Real Estate Standards Organ= ization" or what it does. Does it produce a series of standards that are u= sed in the real world? Where in those standards would these URNs be used? Simimlarly, the proposed syntax is just that the URNs have to be valid URNs= . It doesn't hint that you've got any detailed plan in mind. Dale _______________________________________________ urn mailing list urn@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn From nobody Thu Nov 14 04:55:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9204E12012E for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 04:55:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=helsinkifi.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jvEzEXrjAwhf for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 04:55:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur03on0731.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe09::731]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CF73120288 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 04:55:01 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=botrESaG576Ph+ys2yz+xciS9tfArOvPIPaEpsTxnexKyTV+GoZ1KpM8Sz1jcSfsue8gIDvHQ5VUYIsYd1yM1JDY4n2EybhaJK/NGN+bi8VBFgT/ma6fvyflOLne8IEUZ2pLT4KX/+YOH6Sf0YYY+whZN6LFcrlmNZuaore6xqDLCekiG6rZVRb8ITDIvZtIIzYnW/VD7ejyxx9llAzODohlr+eSZgXy9J44yLLdsAUSkLf5P11YiO52s3vIRPwxo6cHijkVTf0aPF5NPxbX5pLSubHTxrORCJKhleG3Xi1HaAS/T5VUDqnHUcuFlvq8IKOhbzq8RewpavGOi4YKQw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=nDf8wXmwyluUHWgPK6S27eNmwbCydBVz9WB9CaLgc7w=; b=IPl+80Vua8uEVbHObwhFyhQOsS6+yhPl5O3/GHNbkimG4sJmdGJxsceDnefScGEk+xgP0C1dvl+0qxMtqRWkP2oUwJoydZHrepOFVEn/uSfGKRyI54wlUEa4x4i3uKFAPctIw/V4l5Z8DsPfPgxS7+d88+1bqkWob/XVchyOlu/jvby4j4skmO6beJnMYDJkmTGOQMsBLKwA1ycf+zQVjZOoNIIkaC8QeKq0Jtl12F63tOitBuoR01z4uJ5gATS3jpFsur/oWIQM8/i0lfKGUWA5W/crgttrRASgxDjYT6+nSPQRzA3VhIjsU+2RPoSdlpmyMy+ZcJxIdmzJX/fQlw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=helsinki.fi; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=helsinki.fi; dkim=pass header.d=helsinki.fi; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=HelsinkiFI.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-HelsinkiFI-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=nDf8wXmwyluUHWgPK6S27eNmwbCydBVz9WB9CaLgc7w=; b=pUYd+SoFe6SUd+o9Y8JqERdY8hq2od7k0pS2vkwttZ+Soeu+eMw0m9cE1JDCzWnbiJ5iA1iPAlgx5TD/gQ+/KSefikxR03ED3Ga5o4yPmj9pWzE5qg1LkmyzT7xR1ooXRiM/R9ECurkxS2Nk2WCuYohtirTZrJ1nxqOMQiIJPT8= Received: from HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.170.244.159) by HE1PR07MB4411.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.176.166.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2451.16; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:54:59 +0000 Received: from HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::743a:105b:2f7f:f506]) by HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::743a:105b:2f7f:f506%7]) with mapi id 15.20.2451.018; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:54:58 +0000 From: "Hakala, Juha E" To: Eld Zierau , "'Dale R. Worley'" CC: "stpeter@stpeter.im" , "urn@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn PWID draft (7) with corrections) Thread-Index: AQHViUNJtVWUzVc4Jki3oYAdKeC3gqd0oSSAgBYcfGA= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:54:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2396dbcf66bb4c8689bcbabca2cc8492@kb.dk> (elzi@kb.dk) <87eez4w82j.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: fi-FI X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=juha.hakala@helsinki.fi; x-originating-ip: [128.214.138.176] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9f32fa06-adee-4d8b-d24d-08d76901db37 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1PR07MB4411: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 02213C82F8 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(4636009)(136003)(39860400002)(366004)(396003)(346002)(376002)(15374003)(189003)(199004)(13464003)(8676002)(33656002)(66574012)(52536014)(66946007)(5660300002)(66556008)(66446008)(66476007)(76116006)(99286004)(64756008)(316002)(786003)(54906003)(476003)(11346002)(446003)(110136005)(486006)(186003)(74316002)(7736002)(7696005)(71200400001)(71190400001)(25786009)(26005)(14444005)(6506007)(76176011)(5024004)(256004)(53546011)(102836004)(478600001)(4326008)(9686003)(66066001)(6116002)(3846002)(6436002)(8936002)(86362001)(2906002)(55016002)(14454004)(81166006)(81156014)(305945005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR07MB4411; H:HE1PR07MB3097.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: helsinki.fi does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: szicv4ZifuyBhgtiElaGqrVg4I/azTMzM8NZ4Bkv2qW/eEzqg0rLCyo7Mu23uBGg7TOwQxKUzz5PcwHOunGopNYnhG27hTKT8d26Xh9cG4uwpuSk55fygPUAxxjOCJ5NQzWJiMV4CoQAkPuzzeB0Kmg+pGIZUavbMqlwlsp3sjiuJLH5XbhrHrgZNM2QHnhEt3kZbk/UVwQAsEguasfrj5p4x9yUOXbnEYCKUlWKU9j7yfPL4u4rwzlouDp6GVKi/QX3cHgirLXy8ZHUDMcIACbcOnierzbaMAk+/oMOZI3Fr07KphWXXPR0xAnKdFzTBz2llgT2zhZN7msgEh49Tm5QlT5cTvp7b0hiry0XIlBl7Ho/RuFUcpifTklgAw03OFXRW7usVeFsrf1YKO92JlZD5B+Oqofazj3RNg6O1uU6zR39a+OtqKuJ5DANm06S x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: helsinki.fi X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9f32fa06-adee-4d8b-d24d-08d76901db37 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Nov 2019 12:54:58.6738 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 98ae7559-10dc-4288-8e2e-4593e62fe3ee X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: UqcbYHDO1dF/AwzKV4c1JBTb/uO/66saijOUL3g/+76DhYVhMVL2nT6Iwe9Z5BEwSPfaKGGOCgj+gUUagsoL8A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB4411 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn PWID draft (7) with corrections) X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:55:08 -0000 Hello Eld,=20 sorry for delay with reviewing this PWID draft.=20 I say what Dale has said earlier: this version answers the concerns I've ha= d earlier. I have no new issues, so I approve this namespace registration r= equest.=20 Section "Additional information" provides interesting information about how= the specification may be extended in the future. I have another suggestion= for future extensions of this specification: if the identified resource is= a file, a checksum could be added in the end of the PWID. Then it would be= possible to indicate that two different PWIDs identify the same content (t= wo copies of the resource harvested from two Web archives) or the content = has changed over time; then PWIDs will be otherwise identical but archival= -time and checksum will differ. =20 Best regards,=20 Juha=20 -----Alkuper=E4inen viesti----- L=E4hett=E4j=E4: Eld Zierau =20 L=E4hetetty: torstai 31. lokakuuta 2019 12.56 Vastaanottaja: 'Dale R. Worley' Kopio: Hakala, Juha E ; stpeter@stpeter.im; urn@ie= tf.org Aihe: RE: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn PWID= draft (7) with corrections) Thank you Dale I have generated and attached a text version of the pdf file from the previ= ous mail:=20 draft-pwid-urn-specification-10.txt I realized that I had generated it with European sized pages which are long= er than US sized pages. I have therefore also generated and attached a vers= ion with pages fitting to the shorter pages:=20 draft-pwid-urn-specification-10-short-pages.txt The only difference between the two documents are: the date (in order to di= stinguish them) and the page numbering in the table of contents If there are any other issues, please let me know. Best regards, Eld ----- Eld Zierau Digital Preservation Specialist PhD The Royal Danish Library Digital Cultural Heritage P.O. Box 2149, 1016 Copenhagen K Ph. +45 9132 4690=20 Email: elzi@kb.dk -----Original Message----- From: Dale R. Worley =20 Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 3:43 AM To: Eld Zierau Cc: juha.hakala@helsinki.fi; stpeter@stpeter.im; urn@ietf.org Subject: Re: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn P= WID draft (7) with corrections) Eld Zierau writes: > It is in a PDF, - please say if you want another format. Please remember that IETF processes generally work with text documents. Certainly if they need detailed comment, it's much easier to interline comm= ents with a text original. Though I don't have any comments on version 10. I think it answers all of = the concerns I had with previous versions. Dale From nobody Thu Nov 14 07:55:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B2251200BA for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:55:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zUw_aYqxUG80 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:55:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-out12.electric.net (smtp-out12.electric.net [89.104.206.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CAE21120033 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:55:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1iVHSO-0000aE-Vk by out12d.electric.net with emc1-ok (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1iVHSm-000210-V1; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:55:16 -0800 Received: by emcmailer; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:55:16 -0800 Received: from [92.43.124.147] (helo=deliveryscan.hostedsepo.dk) by out12d.electric.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1iVHSO-0000aE-Vk; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:54:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (unknown [10.72.17.201]) by deliveryscan.hostedsepo.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4676C30; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 16:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from 10.72.17.201 ([10.72.17.201]) by dispatch-outgoing.hostedsepo.dk (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.2-1) with SMTP ID 619; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 16:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from out12b.electric.net (smtp-out12.electric.net [89.104.206.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "electric.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by pf1.outpostscan-mta.hostedsepo.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 776A39F138; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 16:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from 1iVHSN-0005N6-VD by out12b.electric.net with hostsite:2468467 (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1iVHSO-0005PG-UI; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:54:52 -0800 Received: by emcmailer; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:54:52 -0800 Received: from [92.43.124.46] (helo=pf1.outprescan-mta.hostedsepo.dk) by out12b.electric.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1iVHSN-0005N6-VD; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 07:54:51 -0800 Received: from post.kb.dk (post-03.kb.dk [130.226.226.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by pf1.outprescan-mta.hostedsepo.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57B949F430; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 16:54:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk (exch-02.kb.dk [10.5.0.112]) by post.kb.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FB8E8BBA1; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 16:54:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk (10.5.0.112) by EXCH-02.kb.dk (10.5.0.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1847.3; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 16:54:50 +0100 Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk ([fe80::b595:1a1f:5666:b29]) by EXCH-02.kb.dk ([fe80::b595:1a1f:5666:b29%7]) with mapi id 15.01.1847.003; Thu, 14 Nov 2019 16:54:50 +0100 From: Eld Zierau To: "'Hakala, Juha E'" , "'Dale R. Worley'" CC: "stpeter@stpeter.im" , "urn@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn PWID draft (7) with corrections) Thread-Index: AQHViUNK+qjPgwfDLUK1AOZ2SsxNdad0nagwgBYUfgCAAD/dAA== Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 15:54:50 +0000 Message-ID: <99fc8912ff78496b826379b0160fc6cb@kb.dk> References: <2396dbcf66bb4c8689bcbabca2cc8492@kb.dk> (elzi@kb.dk) <87eez4w82j.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: da-DK, en-US Content-Language: da-DK X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.226.229.95] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_99fc8912ff78496b826379b0160fc6cbkbdk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-IP: 92.43.124.46 X-Env-From: elzi@kb.dk X-Proto: esmtps X-Revdns: outprescan-mta.hostedsepo.dk X-HELO: pf1.outprescan-mta.hostedsepo.dk X-TLS: TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256 X-Authenticated_ID: X-PolicySMART: 10573177, 19718497 X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (b) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) X-Outbound-IP: 92.43.124.147 X-Env-From: elzi@kb.dk X-Proto: esmtps X-Revdns: deliveryscan.hostedsepo.dk X-HELO: deliveryscan.hostedsepo.dk X-TLS: TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256 X-Authenticated_ID: X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (b) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn PWID draft (7) with corrections) X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 15:55:30 -0000 --_002_99fc8912ff78496b826379b0160fc6cbkbdk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you so much! I have attached a version 1 with the following smaller changes: - file name in header corrected to: pwid-urn-specification-1 - date in template set to 14th of November - adding the checksum suggestion in section "Additional information" under= explanation of how the specification may be extended in the future Best regards, Eld ----- Eld Zierau Digital Preservation Specialist PhD The Royal Danish Library Digital Cultural Heritage P.O. Box 2149, 1016 Copenhagen K Ph. +45 9132 4690=20 Email: elzi@kb.dk -----Original Message----- From: Hakala, Juha E =20 Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2019 1:55 PM To: Eld Zierau ; 'Dale R. Worley' Cc: stpeter@stpeter.im; urn@ietf.org Subject: VS: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn P= WID draft (7) with corrections) Hello Eld,=20 sorry for delay with reviewing this PWID draft.=20 I say what Dale has said earlier: this version answers the concerns I've ha= d earlier. I have no new issues, so I approve this namespace registration r= equest.=20 Section "Additional information" provides interesting information about how= the specification may be extended in the future. I have another suggestion= for future extensions of this specification: if the identified resource is= a file, a checksum could be added in the end of the PWID. Then it would be= possible to indicate that two different PWIDs identify the same content (t= wo copies of the resource harvested from two Web archives) or the content = has changed over time; then PWIDs will be otherwise identical but archival= -time and checksum will differ. =20 Best regards,=20 Juha=20 -----Alkuper=E4inen viesti----- L=E4hett=E4j=E4: Eld Zierau =20 L=E4hetetty: torstai 31. lokakuuta 2019 12.56 Vastaanottaja: 'Dale R. Worley' Kopio: Hakala, Juha E ; stpeter@stpeter.im; urn@ie= tf.org Aihe: RE: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn PWID= draft (7) with corrections) Thank you Dale I have generated and attached a text version of the pdf file from the previ= ous mail:=20 draft-pwid-urn-specification-10.txt I realized that I had generated it with European sized pages which are long= er than US sized pages. I have therefore also generated and attached a vers= ion with pages fitting to the shorter pages:=20 draft-pwid-urn-specification-10-short-pages.txt The only difference between the two documents are: the date (in order to di= stinguish them) and the page numbering in the table of contents If there are any other issues, please let me know. Best regards, Eld ----- Eld Zierau Digital Preservation Specialist PhD The Royal Danish Library Digital Cultural Heritage P.O. Box 2149, 1016 Copenhagen K Ph. +45 9132 4690=20 Email: elzi@kb.dk -----Original Message----- From: Dale R. Worley =20 Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 3:43 AM To: Eld Zierau Cc: juha.hakala@helsinki.fi; stpeter@stpeter.im; urn@ietf.org Subject: Re: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn P= WID draft (7) with corrections) Eld Zierau writes: > It is in a PDF, - please say if you want another format. Please remember that IETF processes generally work with text documents. Certainly if they need detailed comment, it's much easier to interline comm= ents with a text original. Though I don't have any comments on version 10. I think it answers all of = the concerns I had with previous versions. 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Mon Nov 25 14:29:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61086120FA7 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 14:29:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hD487p_ZEhOV for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 14:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from loire.is.ed.ac.uk (loire.is.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EE011208BF for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 14:28:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from crunchie.inf.ed.ac.uk (crunchie.inf.ed.ac.uk [129.215.202.41]) by loire.is.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id xAPMSnR6022394 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 25 Nov 2019 22:28:49 GMT Received: from ecclerig.inf.ed.ac.uk (ecclerig.inf.ed.ac.uk [129.215.24.151]) by crunchie.inf.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id xAPMSlXT023812; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 22:28:47 GMT Received: from ecclerig.inf.ed.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ecclerig.inf.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id xAPMSll7003153; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 22:28:47 GMT Received: (from ht@localhost) by ecclerig.inf.ed.ac.uk (8.14.7/8.14.7/Submit) id xAPMSjar003151; Mon, 25 Nov 2019 22:28:45 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: ecclerig.inf.ed.ac.uk: ht set sender to ht@inf.ed.ac.uk using -f To: Eld Zierau Cc: "'Hakala\, Juha E'" , Peter Saint-Andre , "urn\@ietf.org" References: <2396dbcf66bb4c8689bcbabca2cc8492@kb.dk> From: "Henry S. Thompson" Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 22:28:45 +0000 In-Reply-To: <2396dbcf66bb4c8689bcbabca2cc8492@kb.dk> (Eld Zierau's message of "Fri\, 11 Oct 2019 13\:43\:39 +0000") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1012 (Gnus v5.10.12) XEmacs/21.5-b34 (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Edinburgh-Scanned: at loire.is.ed.ac.uk with MIMEDefang 2.84, Sophie, Sophos Anti-Virus, Clam AntiVirus X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 129.215.16.10 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn PWID draft (7) with corrections) X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 22:29:26 -0000 I continue to be confused by various aspects of this proposal. First confusion (more to follow): The fourth constituent of a PWID, the *precision-spec*, now has only two possible values, 'part' and 'page', which appear to be attempting to distinguish between, respectively, 1) the representation that is/was retrievable for the archived-uri as at the archival-time; 2) a (Content-type conformant?) rendering of that representation (with all other digital objects implicated in that rendering (e.g. scripts, stylesheets, icons, graphics, fonts, ..., to say nothing of advertisements) being also retrieved from the same archive? As it the same archival-time?). Let's just say I can't imagine any creator of a PWID having any idea of when they are supposed to use which, or any consumer of one to have any idea of what they are meant to do as a consequence of which is present. Or is 'page' to be understood as meaning that the PWID as a whole is meant by its minter to denote the same resource (in the RFC 3986 sense of the word) that the archived URI denoted at the time of archiving? The discussion of the use of 'page' in the worked example in the *Resolution* section seems to support either interpretation. It would help if a more detailed description of what the successful resolution of the example PWID, that is urn:pwid:archive.org:2016-01-22T10:08:23Z:page:https://www.dr.dk would look like. Per RFC3986, this should be a representation of the resource identified by the example PWID. And, how would that be different if the example PWID had been urn:pwid:archive.org:2016-01-22T10:08:23Z:part:https://www.dr.dk ? How does this distinction survive a change of media type? To image/png, or application/pdf, or audio/ogg? ht -- Henry S. Thompson, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh 10 Crichton Street, Edinburgh EH8 9AB, SCOTLAND -- (44) 131 650-4440 Fax: (44) 131 650-4587, e-mail: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk URL: http://www.ltg.ed.ac.uk/~ht/ [mail from me _always_ has a .sig like this -- mail without it is forged spam] The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From nobody Thu Nov 28 06:50:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2B1B12088A for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 06:50:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sm5nYqlYMfKb for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 06:50:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-out12.electric.net (smtp-out12.electric.net [89.104.206.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35AAE120886 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 06:50:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from 1iaL7i-0006Hh-VO by out12b.electric.net with emc1-ok (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1iaL7j-0006Kf-Un; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 06:50:27 -0800 Received: by emcmailer; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 06:50:27 -0800 Received: from [92.43.124.147] (helo=deliveryscan.hostedsepo.dk) by out12b.electric.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1iaL7i-0006Hh-VO; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 06:50:26 -0800 Received: from localhost (unknown [10.72.17.201]) by deliveryscan.hostedsepo.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93E1FEFF; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:50:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from 10.72.17.201 ([10.72.17.201]) by dispatch-outgoing.hostedsepo.dk (JAMES SMTP Server 2.3.2-1) with SMTP ID 1; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:50:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from out12d.electric.net (smtp-out12.electric.net [89.104.206.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "electric.net", Issuer "COMODO RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by pf1.outpostscan-mta.hostedsepo.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F5319F1F7; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:50:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from 1iaL7h-0000Ho-UO by out12d.electric.net with hostsite:2468467 (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1iaL7i-0000NV-TX; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 06:50:26 -0800 Received: by emcmailer; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 06:50:26 -0800 Received: from [92.43.124.46] (helo=pf1.outprescan-mta.hostedsepo.dk) by out12d.electric.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from ) id 1iaL7h-0000Ho-UO; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 06:50:25 -0800 Received: from post.kb.dk (post-03.kb.dk [130.226.226.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by pf1.outprescan-mta.hostedsepo.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAC699F2D2; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:50:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk (exch-02.kb.dk [10.5.0.112]) by post.kb.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4B48BEB07; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:50:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk (10.5.0.112) by EXCH-02.kb.dk (10.5.0.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1847.3; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:50:24 +0100 Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk ([fe80::b595:1a1f:5666:b29]) by EXCH-02.kb.dk ([fe80::b595:1a1f:5666:b29%7]) with mapi id 15.01.1847.005; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:50:24 +0100 From: Eld Zierau To: "'Henry S. Thompson'" CC: "'Hakala, Juha E'" , Peter Saint-Andre , "urn@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn PWID draft (7) with corrections) Thread-Index: AQHVo9/A5kRRJ7EN1UCh4Vv2CVNmCaegmRHQ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 14:50:24 +0000 Message-ID: <4499f99af7b84135ae88b14cc444d080@kb.dk> References: <2396dbcf66bb4c8689bcbabca2cc8492@kb.dk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: da-DK, en-US Content-Language: da-DK X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.226.229.95] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_4499f99af7b84135ae88b14cc444d080kbdk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-IP: 92.43.124.46 X-Env-From: elzi@kb.dk X-Proto: esmtps X-Revdns: outprescan-mta.hostedsepo.dk X-HELO: pf1.outprescan-mta.hostedsepo.dk X-TLS: TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256 X-Authenticated_ID: X-PolicySMART: 10573177, 19718497 X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (b) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) X-Outbound-IP: 92.43.124.147 X-Env-From: elzi@kb.dk X-Proto: esmtps X-Revdns: deliveryscan.hostedsepo.dk X-HELO: deliveryscan.hostedsepo.dk X-TLS: TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256 X-Authenticated_ID: X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (b) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn PWID draft (7) with corrections) X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 14:50:36 -0000 --_002_4499f99af7b84135ae88b14cc444d080kbdk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please see my comments below Best regards, Eld PS: I have attached new version with the few changes that I have suggested = below=20 (and a small correction from "Archived URI or identifier" to "Archived URI"= which missed my eye in the last version) -----Original Message----- From: Henry S. Thompson =20 Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 11:29 PM To: Eld Zierau Cc: 'Hakala, Juha E' ; Peter Saint-Andre ; urn@ietf.org Subject: Re: [urn] new draft 10 - new form (RE: new draft 9 - RE: new urn P= WID draft (7) with corrections) I continue to be confused by various aspects of this proposal. First confusion (more to follow): The fourth constituent of a PWID, the *precision-spec*, now has only two po= ssible values, 'part' and 'page', which appear to be attempting to distingu= ish between, respectively, 1) the representation that is/was retrievable for the archived-uri as at the archival-time; > Eld: I guess you mean 'part' here, which in the specification is describe= d as: > "* 'part' > Meaning the single archived file/web part harvested as from the > specified URI. For references to web pages with html code > (i.e. pages where there is an option to "View page source"), > this will mean the actual file with the html code. It is > relevant to refer to web pages this way, in case it is part of > a collection specification or in case it is the html that is of > interest (e.g. java scripts or hidden links that are not > visible when rendering the web page). > For all other types of files, the URI will be for single files > to be interpreted a file." > And I must admit that I do not see anything that can be interpreted as re= presentation in this description, so I cannot follow you point here. > > Please also note that introduction say that > "The purpose of the PWID URN is also to express a web archive > reference as simple as possible and at the same time meet the > requirements for sustainability, usability and scope. Therefore, the > PWID URN is focused on having only the minimum required information > to make a precise identification of a resource in an arbitrary web > archive. Recent research have shown that this can be obtained by the > following information [ResawRef]: > > o Identification of web archive > > o Identification of source: > * Archived URI > * Archival timestamp > > o Intended precision (page, part/file)" > > I could of course make it sharper by saying that=20 > * Archival timestamp (the archives timestamp for when the URI was = archived) > But I must admit that I do not see it add value, and it is described seve= ral places throughout the specification > (and therefore not included in attached version). 2) a (Content-type conformant?) rendering of that representation (with all other digital objects implicated in that rendering (e.g. scripts, stylesheets, icons, graphics, fonts, ..., to say nothing of advertisements) being also retrieved from the same archive? As it the same archival-time?). Let's just say I can't imagine any creator of a PWID having any idea of when they are supposed to use which, or any consumer of one to have any idea of what they are meant to do as a consequence of which is present. > Eld: I guess you mean 'page' here, which in the specification is describe= d as: > > "* 'page' > Meaning that an application like Wayback calculates a resultin= g > web page based on calculated referenced web parts (display > templates, images etc.). For example, an html page displaying > an image will need both the html and the referred image." > > The PWID is not concerned with Content-type, - it is only concerned with = information created when the resource was archived.=20 > It is explained in the assignment section how you can determine whether t= he precision-spec should be part or page: > > "o precision-spec (part or page): > The precision specification specifies how the referred item should > be regarded. A typical PWID URN reference in a paper would be > 'page', where a tool will be needed to render the web page. > Alternatively, the precision-spec can be 'part', which is the most > precise reference since it reference a specific file where no > additional calculations are needed (e.g. as part of a collection, > a specific html file with hidden links or to indicate that a > single image is referenced). In order to see whether a viewed > browser page is a computed web page or a single file, browsers > have a function "View page source" which is not activated if for > single files)." > > So it is up to browser software to tell whether it is something that is i= nterpreted as a page.=20 > > And yes a page is "with all other digital objects implicated in that rend= ering (e.g. scripts, stylesheets, icons, graphics, fonts ...)",=20 > where I have used terms that are less technical "parts (display templates= , images etc.)" > > And no - not necessarily the same archival time, since each digital objec= t will be harvested individually and therefore usually have different archi= val times. > That is why there are calculation involved when a Wayback machine renders= a page, since it takes the elements (in the archive) it can > find with time closest to the archival time for the archived file with th= e page code. > > I can make it more clear by extending the description: > >" 'page' > Meaning that an application like Wayback calculates a resulting > web page based on calculated referenced web parts (display > templates, images etc.), which the Wayback machine can find in = the=20 > archive. For example, an html page displaying an image will ne= ed=20 > both the archived html file for the page and the archived file = with=20 > the referred image. Since the two files are archived individual= ly > they will normally have different archival times. In cases wher= e the=20 > archive have several versions of the image (harvested at differ= ent times),=20 > it is the Wayback machine that calculates which archived file o= f the=20 > image that is relevant (the one with archival time closest to t= he=20 > archived html file)." Or is 'page' to be understood as meaning that the PWID as a whole is meant = by its minter to denote the same resource (in the RFC 3986 sense of the wor= d) that the archived URI denoted at the time of archiving? > Eld: see above The discussion of the use of 'page' in the worked example in the *Resolution* section seems to support either interpretation. It would help if a more detailed description of what the successful resolut= ion of the example PWID, that is urn:pwid:archive.org:2016-01-22T10:08:23Z:page:https://www.dr.dk would look like. Per RFC3986, this should be a representation of the resou= rce identified by the example PWID. And, how would that be different if the example PWID had been urn:pwid:archive.org:2016-01-22T10:08:23Z:part:https://www.dr.dk ? > Eld: Unfortunately I cannot insert images in the specification, - and it = is already described in the resolution section in the paragraph: > =20 > "The 'page' information is used in verification that the right > precision level is reached. In case the precision-spec had been > 'part', it would require an extra step selecting "View page source" > on the resulting page." > > but I can of course make it an example and repeat it under the descriptio= n of the alternative resolution at: > > "Alternative resolution (automatically or manually) of this URN PWID > can be deduced based on the current (2019) knowledge of Internet > Archive's open Wayback access web interface, which has the pattern: > > https://web.archive.org/web/