From owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Wed Nov 5 14:56:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4303A686A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:56:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wCTGCRHogwDS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C423A688C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5Ms69A035641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mA5Ms68a035640; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp4.stanford.edu (smtp4.Stanford.EDU [171.67.219.84]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5MruFl035629 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eagle@windlord.stanford.edu) Received: from smtp4.stanford.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id CCF1F487374 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (windlord.Stanford.EDU [171.67.225.134]) by smtp4.stanford.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47AE487434 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by windlord.stanford.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4189FE7E67; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:53:55 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO In-Reply-To: (Charles Lindsey's message of "Thu\, 30 Oct 2008 15\:27\:23 GMT") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> From: Russ Allbery Organization: The Eyrie Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:53:55 -0800 Message-ID: <87prl9iy2k.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: "Charles Lindsey" writes: >> **#1584 **USEPRO LC 3.2.1: Adding Injection-Date at posting agent > #1584 also needs to be addressed, but Russ seems to agree that my > suggested wording is needed, or something like it, so it is just a > matter of rubber-stamping or otherwise by the WG. Can you remind me of what your suggested wording is here? I just finished spending two weeks and change at the coast ignoring computers, and I'm afraid a lot of this has fallen out of my head. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) From owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Wed Nov 5 15:00:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC8D3A6880 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:00:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JFr1pCGBKfSL for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439BB3A6878 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5MqdJG035561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:52:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mA5Mqd8d035560; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:52:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp1.stanford.edu (smtp1.Stanford.EDU [171.67.219.81]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5MqSkU035546 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:52:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eagle@windlord.stanford.edu) Received: from smtp1.stanford.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 00576171ACC for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:52:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (windlord.Stanford.EDU [171.67.225.134]) by smtp1.stanford.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0683171AC0 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:52:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by windlord.stanford.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 27326E7E64; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:52:27 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Re: #1582 Re: Commit in docs/usefor (usepro.xml) In-Reply-To: <49074B2F.1080009@alvestrand.no> (Harald Tveit Alvestrand's message of "Tue\, 28 Oct 2008 18\:26\:07 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) References: <20080922001818.EA1BDE7A31@windlord.stanford.edu> <49074B2F.1080009@alvestrand.no> From: Russ Allbery Organization: The Eyrie Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:52:27 -0800 Message-ID: <87tzaliy50.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Harald Tveit Alvestrand writes: > I'm taking this checkin as resolution of issue #1582. Looks right to me. > This is not yet reflected in a published draft; I assume it will be in > -13. Correct. I can publish that at any time (now that I'm back from vacation). -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) From owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Wed Nov 5 15:15:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9960F3A689C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:15:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JTePqoPgxgi4 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F763A687C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5NBSpb036796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mA5NBSZ2036795; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp4.stanford.edu (smtp4.Stanford.EDU [171.67.219.84]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5NBRV2036788 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:11:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eagle@windlord.stanford.edu) Received: from smtp4.stanford.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 655AB4874FC for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:11:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (windlord.Stanford.EDU [171.67.225.134]) by smtp4.stanford.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE7C48750B for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:11:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by windlord.stanford.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 271FCE7E64; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:11:27 -0800 (PST) To: Usefor Mailing List Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO In-Reply-To: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> (Harald Tveit Alvestrand's message of "Tue\, 28 Oct 2008 08\:07\:37 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> From: Russ Allbery Organization: The Eyrie Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:11:27 -0800 Message-ID: <87ljvxix9c.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Harald Tveit Alvestrand writes: > *#1582** USEPRO LC 4.3 / 5.2.3: 4.3 overlooks chkscope Resolved but not yet published, as mentioned in the other message. > **#1583** USEPRO LC 5.2.3: Checkgroups control messages There are several individual questions here. One is handling of subhierarchies in combination with groups with the same name as the hierarchy. I generally agree with Charles here that there isn't a better way of handling the edge case than what we currently have, and the group at the top of the sub-hierarchy will have to be listed in the parent checkgroups. Another is the serial number. I think there are two viable options here: unlimited-length serial numbers (the current text) or sequence-space arithmetic. I lean mildly towards the current text just because I don't want to have to write the text for sequence-space arithmetic, and I find persuasive the argument that unlimited-length numbers can be checked with ASCII comparison and don't need to be treated as numbers. Another is what should be done with a checkgroups that doesn't have a serial number when checkgroups for that hierarchy previously did have a serial number. I think this is a gap in the current specification. The last is whether there's a means to reset the serial number. Currently there isn't. It may be worth splitting this point into four issues; the first and the last may already be resolved, depending on whether anyone wants to advocate doing something different about them than what we have now. > I also have a couple of USEPRO issues in the tracker that don't seem to > have been formally closed (another error by the chair, sorry 'bout > that): > 1412 USEPRO 5.3: Cancel newsgroups: matching I remain opposed to this change. I think we need a consensus ruling from a chair on it. I don't believe that it has consensus, but I'm biased by being opposed, so I shouldn't judge that. > 1413 USEPRO 5.5: ihave/sendme syntax This is resolved. > 1414 USEPRO 3.2.1: delimiter for multiple Path identities This is resolved. The first text option in that ticket is in the current draft. > 1415 USEPRO 3.2.1 - Number of path entries per site Still open. I think this needs a consensus ruling. I don't believe the proposed change is necessary, since for the purposes of the protocol multiple systems within an ISP can be considered as one news server and what happens internally is a black box. > 1417 USEPRO 3.4: Injecting-agent modification of message-ID This is resolved with the text mentioned in the ticket. > 1479 USEPRO: Whether moderators SHOULD retain message-ID Currently, we say: Moderators are encouraged to retain the Message-ID header field if it is valid, and also retain the Date header field unless it appears to be stale (72 hours or more in the past) for reasons understood by the moderator (such as delays in the moderation process) in which case they MAY substitute the current date. Any Injection-Date, Injection-Info, or Xref header fields already present MUST be removed. The question is whether the encouragement should be normative. This is still open. > 1482 USEPRO 3.2: Possibility to use non-resolvable domain name as > path-identity This is currently permitted by: A fully-qualified domain name (FQDN) within a domain affiliated with the administrators of the agent and guaranteed to be unique by the administrators of that domain. For example, the uniqueness of server.example.org could be guaranteed by the administrator of example.org even if there is no DNS record for server.example.org itself. The proposal is to say that this is a SHOULD NOT in at least some cases (the specific case cited is using foo.com when only news.foo.com exists in DNS). Currently, we only say that it's not preferred. This is still open. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) From owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Wed Nov 5 17:13:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAAF43A6782 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:13:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.446 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.446 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_61=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sb9kHv0v4K1C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:13:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E9C3A687D for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 17:13:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA619CGH044413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:09:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mA619CJe044412; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:09:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from tertius.net.au (tertius.net.au [203.30.75.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA618xdd044399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:09:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thorfinn@tertius.net.au) Received: from [10.134.51.32] (sys-fw1.off.connect.com.au [192.94.41.120]) by tertius.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316328080B1; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:08:57 +1100 (EST) Cc: Usefor Mailing List Message-Id: <593F5932-79BE-44C2-8612-7D70F89F8ED7@tertius.net.au> From: Thorfinn To: Russ Allbery In-Reply-To: <87ljvxix9c.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:08:48 +1100 References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> <87ljvxix9c.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 6 Nov 2008, at 10:11, Russ Allbery wrote: >> **#1583** USEPRO LC 5.2.3: Checkgroups control messages > > There are several individual questions here. > > One is handling of subhierarchies in combination with groups with > the same > name as the hierarchy. I generally agree with Charles here that there > isn't a better way of handling the edge case than what we currently > have, > and the group at the top of the sub-hierarchy will have to be listed > in > the parent checkgroups. Sounds workable to me. Not the nicest solution, but I can't think of any more correct way to do it. > Another is the serial number. I think there are two viable options > here: > unlimited-length serial numbers (the current text) or sequence-space > arithmetic. I lean mildly towards the current text just because I > don't > want to have to write the text for sequence-space arithmetic, and I > find > persuasive the argument that unlimited-length numbers can be checked > with > ASCII comparison and don't need to be treated as numbers. That was my argument. :-) ( strlen(a, b) || strcmp(a, b) ) is perfectly sensible as a serial number comparator, assuming trimming of any leading zeroes and whitespace and validation that the rest of the string is digits. Not sure if we have some kind of notes-to-the- implementor, but that may be worth putting in as such a note. > Another is what should be done with a checkgroups that doesn't have a > serial number when checkgroups for that hierarchy previously did > have a > serial number. I think this is a gap in the current specification. Once you've accepted a serial number checkgroups, I think that you're stuck with serial numbers, and non-serial checkgroups should be ignored. Anything else seems to me to suffer the same issue as reset messages below - there's no real way to definitively determine that you're somehow supposed to stop caring about serial numbers. I don't know if any extra wording is required to achieve that. If so, it should probably be added. > The last is whether there's a means to reset the serial number. > Currently > there isn't. Not really an issue if you go with either unlimited length or sequence space arithmetic as the options for serial number. Neither of them require a means to reset the serial number - and in fact in both cases it's most likely counterproductive to have such a mechanism, since there is no way to guarantee that any reset message is delivered. > It may be worth splitting this point into four issues; the first and > the > last may already be resolved, depending on whether anyone wants to > advocate doing something different about them than what we have now. Well, my comments above. :-) I have nothing to say on the other issues. Meep, Thorf -- thorfinn@tertius.net.au ~/ For those who've come across the seas, ~/ We've boundless plains to share, ~/ ~/ With courage let us all combine, ~/ To Advance Australia Fair. ~/ -- The end of the second verse of the Australian National Anthem. -- From Shannon-chbenest@e-home.com Fri Nov 7 21:28:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36353A67B1 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 21:28:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -28.13 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-28.13 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_60=1, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HOST_EQ_STATIC=1.172, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ss1S35ubaz0L for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 21:28:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mlsrj200152105p189.static.mls.com.br (mlsrj200152105p189.static.mls.com.br [200.152.105.189]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 960203A67A8 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2008 21:28:46 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: invoice From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081108052846.960203A67A8@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 21:28:46 -0800 (PST)
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From owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Thu Nov 13 00:39:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2AC3A6819 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:39:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G5Y59tBJdaMT for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:39:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B2E3A67AC for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 00:39:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mAD8buLV072231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:37:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mAD8bugp072230; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:37:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mAD8bsBj072223 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:37:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from harald@alvestrand.no) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9678A39E40A; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:36:35 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eikenes.alvestrand.no Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZvglLR5-FzTY; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:36:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from [172.28.58.136] (unknown [195.18.164.170]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10DBD39E254; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:36:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <491BE761.60509@alvestrand.no> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:37:53 +0100 From: Harald Alvestrand User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.14ubu (X11/20080925) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Lindsey CC: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Charles Lindsey wrote: > In <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> Harald Tveit Alvestrand writes: > > >> At long last, I've gotten around to doing what should have been done in >> September: Collate the list of Last Call comments. >> > > >> The following were raised as ISSUEs, and have been assigned issue numbers: >> > > >> *#1582** USEPRO LC 4.3 / 5.2.3: 4.3 overlooks chkscope >> **#1583** USEPRO LC 5.2.3: Checkgroups control messages >> **#1584 **USEPRO LC 3.2.1: Adding Injection-Date at posting agent >> **#1585 **USEPRO LC : Length and final dots of newsgroups descriptions >> > > You are missing: > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:06:35 GMT > Subject: Re: ISSUE: treatment of POSTED in proto articles > Yes - it did not have ISSUE at the start of the subject line, so I took it as a comment. Will add. > Which I think is the major item oustanding. Russ agrees that a current > MUST ought to be reduced to SHOULD, but I would prefer to reduce it beyond > that, so further opinions are needed. > > #1584 also needs to be addressed, but Russ seems to agree that my > suggested wording is needed, or something like it, so it is just a matter > of rubber-stamping or otherwise by the WG. > > I think the others are now fixed. > > From owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Fri Nov 14 09:14:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7897A3A69E9 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:14:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sKGzNzMiRc4g for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (properopus-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f04:392::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F0E43A6A77 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 09:14:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mAEHCG3Q097585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:12:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mAEHCG5x097584; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:12:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net (v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net [79.135.125.112]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mAEHC4YV097548 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:12:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from news@clerew.man.ac.uk) Received: from [80.175.135.89] ([80.175.135.89] helo=clerew.man.ac.uk country=GB ident=postmaster$pop3*clerew#man$ac&uk) by v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.301) id 491db163.3f49.48b for ietf-usefor@imc.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:12:03 +0000 (envelope-sender ) Received: from clerew.man.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clerew.man.ac.uk (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id mAEHC3Rw018452 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:12:03 GMT Received: (from news@localhost) by clerew.man.ac.uk (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id mAEHC26e018444 for ietf-usefor@imc.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:12:02 GMT To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Xref: clerew local.usefor:24941 Path: clerew!chl From: "Charles Lindsey" Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO Message-ID: X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.2 (NOV) References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> <491BE761.60509@alvestrand.no> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:05:16 GMT Lines: 24 Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: In <491BE761.60509@alvestrand.no> Harald Alvestrand writes: >Charles Lindsey wrote: >> You are missing: >> >> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:06:35 GMT >> Subject: Re: ISSUE: treatment of POSTED in proto articles >> >Yes - it did not have ISSUE at the start of the subject line, so I took >it as a comment. Will add. Yes, it was a followup to an earlier message, and I did not edit the Subject line thoroughly enough :-(. -- Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------ Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Fax: +44 161 436 6133 Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl Email: chl@clerew.man.ac.uk Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K. PGP: 2C15F1A9 Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5 From ljn@agora.pl Wed Nov 26 04:49:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C19328C16F for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 04:49:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -31.992 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-31.992 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g-44G5GGQK3x for ; 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Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from 4dm.co.uk (unknown [209.59.112.68]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C3E923A688A for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:42:40 -0800 (PST) To: Subject: Re: Order status From: MIME-Version: 1.0 Importance: High Content-Type: text/html Message-Id: <20081126164240.C3E923A688A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:42:40 -0800 (PST) Click here to view as a webpage From jesica_chessher@alienemail.net Wed Nov 26 19:21:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-usefor-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC18B3A68F1 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:21:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -22.082 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-22.082 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_80=2, FH_HELO_EQ_CHARTER=2.175, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HOST_EQ_CHARTER=1.295, HOST_EQ_DHCP=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AZ5L0f1G9171 for ; 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2008 Microsoft | Unsubscribe | More Newsletters | Privacy

Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052
Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mAEHCG3Q097585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:12:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mAEHCG5x097584; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:12:16 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net (v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net [79.135.125.112]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mAEHC4YV097548 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:12:15 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from news@clerew.man.ac.uk) Received: from [80.175.135.89] ([80.175.135.89] helo=clerew.man.ac.uk country=GB ident=postmaster$pop3*clerew#man$ac&uk) by v-smtp-auth-relay-6.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.301) id 491db163.3f49.48b for ietf-usefor@imc.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:12:03 +0000 (envelope-sender ) Received: from clerew.man.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clerew.man.ac.uk (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id mAEHC3Rw018452 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:12:03 GMT Received: (from news@localhost) by clerew.man.ac.uk (8.13.7/8.13.7/Submit) id mAEHC26e018444 for ietf-usefor@imc.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:12:02 GMT To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Xref: clerew local.usefor:24941 Path: clerew!chl From: "Charles Lindsey" Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO Message-ID: X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.2 (NOV) References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> <491BE761.60509@alvestrand.no> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:05:16 GMT Lines: 24 Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: In <491BE761.60509@alvestrand.no> Harald Alvestrand writes: >Charles Lindsey wrote: >> You are missing: >> >> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:06:35 GMT >> Subject: Re: ISSUE: treatment of POSTED in proto articles >> >Yes - it did not have ISSUE at the start of the subject line, so I took >it as a comment. Will add. Yes, it was a followup to an earlier message, and I did not edit the Subject line thoroughly enough :-(. -- Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------ Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Fax: +44 161 436 6133 Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl Email: chl@clerew.man.ac.uk Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K. PGP: 2C15F1A9 Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mAD8buLV072231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:37:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mAD8bugp072230; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:37:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.233]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mAD8bsBj072223 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:37:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from harald@alvestrand.no) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9678A39E40A; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:36:35 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eikenes.alvestrand.no Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZvglLR5-FzTY; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:36:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from [172.28.58.136] (unknown [195.18.164.170]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10DBD39E254; Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:36:35 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <491BE761.60509@alvestrand.no> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:37:53 +0100 From: Harald Alvestrand User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.14ubu (X11/20080925) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Lindsey CC: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Charles Lindsey wrote: > In <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> Harald Tveit Alvestrand writes: > > >> At long last, I've gotten around to doing what should have been done in >> September: Collate the list of Last Call comments. >> > > >> The following were raised as ISSUEs, and have been assigned issue numbers: >> > > >> *#1582** USEPRO LC 4.3 / 5.2.3: 4.3 overlooks chkscope >> **#1583** USEPRO LC 5.2.3: Checkgroups control messages >> **#1584 **USEPRO LC 3.2.1: Adding Injection-Date at posting agent >> **#1585 **USEPRO LC : Length and final dots of newsgroups descriptions >> > > You are missing: > > Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:06:35 GMT > Subject: Re: ISSUE: treatment of POSTED in proto articles > Yes - it did not have ISSUE at the start of the subject line, so I took it as a comment. Will add. > Which I think is the major item oustanding. Russ agrees that a current > MUST ought to be reduced to SHOULD, but I would prefer to reduce it beyond > that, so further opinions are needed. > > #1584 also needs to be addressed, but Russ seems to agree that my > suggested wording is needed, or something like it, so it is just a matter > of rubber-stamping or otherwise by the WG. > > I think the others are now fixed. > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA619CGH044413 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:09:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mA619CJe044412; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:09:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from tertius.net.au (tertius.net.au [203.30.75.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA618xdd044399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:09:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from thorfinn@tertius.net.au) Received: from [10.134.51.32] (sys-fw1.off.connect.com.au [192.94.41.120]) by tertius.net.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316328080B1; Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:08:57 +1100 (EST) Cc: Usefor Mailing List Message-Id: <593F5932-79BE-44C2-8612-7D70F89F8ED7@tertius.net.au> From: Thorfinn To: Russ Allbery In-Reply-To: <87ljvxix9c.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:08:48 +1100 References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> <87ljvxix9c.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: On 6 Nov 2008, at 10:11, Russ Allbery wrote: >> **#1583** USEPRO LC 5.2.3: Checkgroups control messages > > There are several individual questions here. > > One is handling of subhierarchies in combination with groups with > the same > name as the hierarchy. I generally agree with Charles here that there > isn't a better way of handling the edge case than what we currently > have, > and the group at the top of the sub-hierarchy will have to be listed > in > the parent checkgroups. Sounds workable to me. Not the nicest solution, but I can't think of any more correct way to do it. > Another is the serial number. I think there are two viable options > here: > unlimited-length serial numbers (the current text) or sequence-space > arithmetic. I lean mildly towards the current text just because I > don't > want to have to write the text for sequence-space arithmetic, and I > find > persuasive the argument that unlimited-length numbers can be checked > with > ASCII comparison and don't need to be treated as numbers. That was my argument. :-) ( strlen(a, b) || strcmp(a, b) ) is perfectly sensible as a serial number comparator, assuming trimming of any leading zeroes and whitespace and validation that the rest of the string is digits. Not sure if we have some kind of notes-to-the- implementor, but that may be worth putting in as such a note. > Another is what should be done with a checkgroups that doesn't have a > serial number when checkgroups for that hierarchy previously did > have a > serial number. I think this is a gap in the current specification. Once you've accepted a serial number checkgroups, I think that you're stuck with serial numbers, and non-serial checkgroups should be ignored. Anything else seems to me to suffer the same issue as reset messages below - there's no real way to definitively determine that you're somehow supposed to stop caring about serial numbers. I don't know if any extra wording is required to achieve that. If so, it should probably be added. > The last is whether there's a means to reset the serial number. > Currently > there isn't. Not really an issue if you go with either unlimited length or sequence space arithmetic as the options for serial number. Neither of them require a means to reset the serial number - and in fact in both cases it's most likely counterproductive to have such a mechanism, since there is no way to guarantee that any reset message is delivered. > It may be worth splitting this point into four issues; the first and > the > last may already be resolved, depending on whether anyone wants to > advocate doing something different about them than what we have now. Well, my comments above. :-) I have nothing to say on the other issues. Meep, Thorf -- thorfinn@tertius.net.au ~/ For those who've come across the seas, ~/ We've boundless plains to share, ~/ ~/ With courage let us all combine, ~/ To Advance Australia Fair. ~/ -- The end of the second verse of the Australian National Anthem. -- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5NBSpb036796 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mA5NBSZ2036795; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:11:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp4.stanford.edu (smtp4.Stanford.EDU [171.67.219.84]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5NBRV2036788 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 16:11:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eagle@windlord.stanford.edu) Received: from smtp4.stanford.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 655AB4874FC for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:11:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (windlord.Stanford.EDU [171.67.225.134]) by smtp4.stanford.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE7C48750B for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:11:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by windlord.stanford.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 271FCE7E64; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:11:27 -0800 (PST) To: Usefor Mailing List Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO In-Reply-To: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> (Harald Tveit Alvestrand's message of "Tue\, 28 Oct 2008 08\:07\:37 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> From: Russ Allbery Organization: The Eyrie Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 15:11:27 -0800 Message-ID: <87ljvxix9c.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Harald Tveit Alvestrand writes: > *#1582** USEPRO LC 4.3 / 5.2.3: 4.3 overlooks chkscope Resolved but not yet published, as mentioned in the other message. > **#1583** USEPRO LC 5.2.3: Checkgroups control messages There are several individual questions here. One is handling of subhierarchies in combination with groups with the same name as the hierarchy. I generally agree with Charles here that there isn't a better way of handling the edge case than what we currently have, and the group at the top of the sub-hierarchy will have to be listed in the parent checkgroups. Another is the serial number. I think there are two viable options here: unlimited-length serial numbers (the current text) or sequence-space arithmetic. I lean mildly towards the current text just because I don't want to have to write the text for sequence-space arithmetic, and I find persuasive the argument that unlimited-length numbers can be checked with ASCII comparison and don't need to be treated as numbers. Another is what should be done with a checkgroups that doesn't have a serial number when checkgroups for that hierarchy previously did have a serial number. I think this is a gap in the current specification. The last is whether there's a means to reset the serial number. Currently there isn't. It may be worth splitting this point into four issues; the first and the last may already be resolved, depending on whether anyone wants to advocate doing something different about them than what we have now. > I also have a couple of USEPRO issues in the tracker that don't seem to > have been formally closed (another error by the chair, sorry 'bout > that): > 1412 USEPRO 5.3: Cancel newsgroups: matching I remain opposed to this change. I think we need a consensus ruling from a chair on it. I don't believe that it has consensus, but I'm biased by being opposed, so I shouldn't judge that. > 1413 USEPRO 5.5: ihave/sendme syntax This is resolved. > 1414 USEPRO 3.2.1: delimiter for multiple Path identities This is resolved. The first text option in that ticket is in the current draft. > 1415 USEPRO 3.2.1 - Number of path entries per site Still open. I think this needs a consensus ruling. I don't believe the proposed change is necessary, since for the purposes of the protocol multiple systems within an ISP can be considered as one news server and what happens internally is a black box. > 1417 USEPRO 3.4: Injecting-agent modification of message-ID This is resolved with the text mentioned in the ticket. > 1479 USEPRO: Whether moderators SHOULD retain message-ID Currently, we say: Moderators are encouraged to retain the Message-ID header field if it is valid, and also retain the Date header field unless it appears to be stale (72 hours or more in the past) for reasons understood by the moderator (such as delays in the moderation process) in which case they MAY substitute the current date. Any Injection-Date, Injection-Info, or Xref header fields already present MUST be removed. The question is whether the encouragement should be normative. This is still open. > 1482 USEPRO 3.2: Possibility to use non-resolvable domain name as > path-identity This is currently permitted by: A fully-qualified domain name (FQDN) within a domain affiliated with the administrators of the agent and guaranteed to be unique by the administrators of that domain. For example, the uniqueness of server.example.org could be guaranteed by the administrator of example.org even if there is no DNS record for server.example.org itself. The proposal is to say that this is a SHOULD NOT in at least some cases (the specific case cited is using foo.com when only news.foo.com exists in DNS). Currently, we only say that it's not preferred. This is still open. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5Ms69A035641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mA5Ms68a035640; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp4.stanford.edu (smtp4.Stanford.EDU [171.67.219.84]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5MruFl035629 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:54:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eagle@windlord.stanford.edu) Received: from smtp4.stanford.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id CCF1F487374 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (windlord.Stanford.EDU [171.67.225.134]) by smtp4.stanford.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B47AE487434 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by windlord.stanford.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4189FE7E67; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:53:55 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Re: Last Call issues on USEPRO In-Reply-To: (Charles Lindsey's message of "Thu\, 30 Oct 2008 15\:27\:23 GMT") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) References: <4906BA39.6000302@alvestrand.no> From: Russ Allbery Organization: The Eyrie Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:53:55 -0800 Message-ID: <87prl9iy2k.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: "Charles Lindsey" writes: >> **#1584 **USEPRO LC 3.2.1: Adding Injection-Date at posting agent > #1584 also needs to be addressed, but Russ seems to agree that my > suggested wording is needed, or something like it, so it is just a > matter of rubber-stamping or otherwise by the WG. Can you remind me of what your suggested wording is here? I just finished spending two weeks and change at the coast ignoring computers, and I'm afraid a lot of this has fallen out of my head. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5MqdJG035561 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:52:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.13.5/Submit) id mA5Mqd8d035560; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:52:39 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp1.stanford.edu (smtp1.Stanford.EDU [171.67.219.81]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id mA5MqSkU035546 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:52:38 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from eagle@windlord.stanford.edu) Received: from smtp1.stanford.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 00576171ACC for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:52:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (windlord.Stanford.EDU [171.67.225.134]) by smtp1.stanford.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0683171AC0 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:52:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by windlord.stanford.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 27326E7E64; Wed, 5 Nov 2008 14:52:27 -0800 (PST) To: ietf-usefor@imc.org Subject: Re: #1582 Re: Commit in docs/usefor (usepro.xml) In-Reply-To: <49074B2F.1080009@alvestrand.no> (Harald Tveit Alvestrand's message of "Tue\, 28 Oct 2008 18\:26\:07 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.2 (gnu/linux) References: <20080922001818.EA1BDE7A31@windlord.stanford.edu> <49074B2F.1080009@alvestrand.no> From: Russ Allbery Organization: The Eyrie Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:52:27 -0800 Message-ID: <87tzaliy50.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-usefor@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Harald Tveit Alvestrand writes: > I'm taking this checkin as resolution of issue #1582. Looks right to me. > This is not yet reflected in a published draft; I assume it will be in > -13. Correct. I can publish that at any time (now that I'm back from vacation). -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)