From fred@cisco.com Sat Jan 1 16:06:09 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v4tov6transition@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: v4tov6transition@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655093A6931 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2011 16:06:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -108.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-108.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.746, BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_96_XX=1.69, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UUy2nQR+3Qb0 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2011 16:06:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-6.cisco.com (sj-iport-6.cisco.com [171.71.176.117]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 050D03A6851 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2011 16:06:08 -0800 (PST) Authentication-Results: sj-iport-6.cisco.com; dkim=neutral (message not signed) header.i=none X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuIMADdQH02rR7Hu/2dsb2JhbAA3oy5gc6MymC6FSgSEZYYfgx0 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,261,1291593600"; d="scan'208,217";a="643946709" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com ([171.71.177.238]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Jan 2011 00:08:14 +0000 Received: from stealth-10-32-244-218.cisco.com (stealth-10-32-244-218.cisco.com [10.32.244.218]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0207DOk006405; Sun, 2 Jan 2011 00:08:14 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by stealth-10-32-244-218.cisco.com (PGP Universal service); Sat, 01 Jan 2011 16:08:14 -0800 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by stealth-10-32-244-218.cisco.com on Sat, 01 Jan 2011 16:08:14 -0800 X-Apple-Mail-Remote-Attachments: YES In-Reply-To: <4C927ED5.1080406@sri.com> X-Apple-Mail-Signature: SKIP_SIGNATURE X-Uniform-Type-Identifier: com.apple.mail-draft Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) X-Apple-Base-Url: x-msg://733/ Message-Id: <8972CB22-E75E-4B3B-B720-0B2D8A81C766@cisco.com> To: Ed Jankiewicz X-Apple-Auto-Saved: 1 From: Fred Baker References: <4C927ED5.1080406@sri.com> X-Apple-Mail-Plain-Text-Draft: yes X-Apple-Windows-Friendly: 1 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Cc: v4tov6transition@ietf.org Subject: Re: [v4tov6transition] troubling survey X-BeenThere: v4tov6transition@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2011 00:06:09 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 09:16:44 -0700 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2011 00:06:09 -0000

http://gcn.com/articles/2010/09/14/adoption-of-ipv6-is-slow.= aspx

as the article = notes, something like 10% of ISPs responded "No plans to implement IPv6" = as in not even thinking about EVER doing it. Overall, = including end-user organizations there is still a lackluster interest in = doing IPv6 now or soon. And big reasons include "lack of = knowledgeable staff", "lack of experience", "no business case/user = demand" and "technical problems". Real or perceived, getting = better information out to marketplace about what you really need = to know and need to do would help. I hope that's what this = list is about.

http://www.nro.net/documents/GlobalIPv6SurveySummaryv2.pdf

I think you will find this list is about operator = questions regarding IPv6 deployment, and very much overlaps the = v6ops list. It's not marketing. It's operational technology = questions, many of them appropriate to your favorite *NOG.

There = are a couple of ways to look at IPv6 adoption. There is a serious level = of whistling in the dark regarding the IPv6 address space; I hear a = lot of "I have enough addresses for another year; if I'm not out of = addresses, why worry?" That, of course, is a lot like saying "I'm = driving the car at 200 kph and I still have pavement ahead; why should = that brick wall I see concern me?".

The other way to look at = 10% of ISPs asleep at the wheel is that 90% aren't. Yes, they would like = more customer demand - people waving money would really excite = them, and at this point it's mostly a cost, not a revenue = opportunity. http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/48/8/44961688.pdf = suggests, however, that ISPs - especially in North America, long = rumored to be the last place on earth anyone would deploy IPv6 - = have been quietly deploying it in their networks and are preparing = to deploy services to customers. Some, as Cameron noted the other day, = are even going IPv6-only within specified domains.

We're = having amusing conversations with our customers as they come up short. = One salesman contacted me a couple of weeks ago when his customer = was preparing their request to ARIN and had been told that they would = get a pretty small allocation. They sales guy wanted to know what = arguments for a larger allocation the company should offer: "would = it make a difference if they said 'but we really need it, guys!'"? = Of the options the salesman offered me, an incredulous "Deploy = IPv6?!?" was the fourth, and yes, that's the realization the customer = was having - feeling very much like his pants had just dropped down = around his ankles. I suspect that as these stories become more common, = we're going to suddenly find people wanting to deploy "right now", = and and angry if everything doesn't work just perfectly out of = the box.= From joelja@bogus.com Sat Jan 1 18:40:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v4tov6transition@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: v4tov6transition@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B98F3A6954 for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2011 18:40:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HFzrbTei8DbH for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2011 18:40:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22FBC3A693E for ; Sat, 1 Jan 2011 18:40:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from joelja-mac.local ([12.97.37.130]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p022gYZX080769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 2 Jan 2011 02:42:46 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <4D1FE61C.5060002@bogus.com> Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2011 18:42:36 -0800 From: Joel Jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fred Baker References: <4C927ED5.1080406@sri.com> <8972CB22-E75E-4B3B-B720-0B2D8A81C766@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <8972CB22-E75E-4B3B-B720-0B2D8A81C766@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: v4tov6transition@ietf.org Subject: Re: [v4tov6transition] troubling survey X-BeenThere: v4tov6transition@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2011 02:40:54 -0000 On 9/17/10 9:16 AM, Fred Baker wrote: > > We're having amusing conversations with our customers as they come up > short. One salesman contacted me a couple of weeks ago when his customer > was preparing their request to ARIN and had been told that they would > get a pretty small allocation. They sales guy wanted to know what > arguments for a larger allocation the company should offer: "would > it make a difference if they said 'but we really need it, guys!'"? Of > the options the salesman offered me, an incredulous "Deploy IPv6?!?" was > the fourth, and yes, that's the realization the customer was having - > feeling very much like his pants had just dropped down around his > ankles. I suspect that as these stories become more common, we're going > to suddenly find people wanting to deploy "right now", and and angry if > everything doesn't work just perfectly out of the box. The senior management of a rather large company I'm inovolved with begin asking pointed questions that indicated that they were now rather interested in our preparedness for ipv6 deployment. We are in a good position to talk intelligently about that but I imagine that this discussion is going on in a rather large number of locations. > > > _______________________________________________ > v4tov6transition mailing list > v4tov6transition@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v4tov6transition