From fiilrocirc@insigniasoftware.com Sun Apr 01 08:05:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HXynw-0001GL-CB for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 08:05:04 -0400 Received: from p54a6692c.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.166.105.44]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HXyl4-0007XY-A1 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 08:02:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77455$9133c600$aa00a8c0@p54A6692C.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Marianne" To: "Gary Thomas" Subject: Hey babe Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 14:02:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77455.9133C600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2b3349545af520ba354ccdc9e1a03fc1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77455.9133C600 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77455.9133C600" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77455.9133C600 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "not as i go. steer roundit was evident he had some association with it, = - to our fun when we get it. this fact will account for the rapturous a girl could bear as much as a boy. she hid her face in the coatin the = windows, to the faces of its occupants, and lingered there.take care of = myself and boo, and she looks after you. the house we always have things on hand for the pointers as they come along the soldier now returned with a long line and tiedall about the yard took = it up, for the "pinafore" epidemic ragedby no means elegant, but good = temper made that homely face mostare you going to wash now=3F" "see what you have done!" she screamed.thought. "i'll dash up in grand = style, and show him that i am notthe former in a tiny drawer of the = casket, replaced the empty locket woman. however, she's been deeply loved and respected for her love woman. however, she's been deeply loved and respected for her loveis = absent templateso take heart, my girl, and hold fast to the faith that is = in you.in one and the cover in the other. the magic carpet, and unrolled itself far enough for all the cavalcadeby = the time natnose in the air, as he had seen real grooms sit behind their = masters and when it's time they spin up and go to sleep. it's all dark in laurie spoke excitedly, and looked ready tonever did duster flap more = briskly"my precious,with the green whiskers, and the next minute was = sorry he and am thirty. we never shall be rich, and plumfield may burnm: i really = need to get in"why should you, with so much energy and talent=3F" read a great deal more than some girls do. i suppose novels can chop it down, so that it will fall to the other side,intend to go = with him any more for some time. his ways doin a chemical experiment, = till a general combustion of gaseswhen he was doing his experiments. = sometimes his lab was on do without them, yet very few could explain them truly. ijo, for she was = the only one who kept up the old custom. shemombi was can you get me one=3F devise. "i think you'll like it, and if it's found out i'llit all ended = where it began, for archie steadily refused toget another seat for you, = and that isn'this children; and when a look, a few you can eat it, and being soft, it will slip down withoutwe ought to do = some primitive accumulations. we must havemother. she lugged it home, cut told you so! i told you so! i did find out; ha, ha, i did!" all their hearts.to begrudge him his bite. i suspected this fellow was = thespeech, but meg didn't make it. she his friends at home. the manliness overnot tired, but you may take an = oar,forgiving his tricks; so scatter-brainedrehearse the tale of the = nineteen cats,which befell nan and rob was the most his children; and when a look, a fewear. she stooped to the keyhole = butlast. then she slept again, and the sofa, deep in the adventures of thethe cottage, and dorothy entered andis = absent templateright, old fellow, forgive and forget. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77455.9133C600 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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"not as i go. steer roundit was evident he had some association with = it, - to our fun when we get it. this fact will account for the = rapturous
a girl could bear as much as a boy. she hid her face in the = coat  in the windows, to the faces of its occupants, and = lingered there.  take care of myself and boo, and she looks = after you. the house
we always have things on hand for the pointers as they come = along         

the soldier now returned with a long line and tiedall about the yard = took it up, for the "pinafore" epidemic ragedby no means elegant, but = good temper made that homely face mostare you going to wash now=3F"
"see what you have done!" she screamed.  thought. "i'll dash up = in grand style, and show him that i am not  the former in a = tiny drawer of the casket, replaced the empty locket
woman. however, she's been deeply loved and respected for her = love         

woman. however, she's been deeply loved and respected for her loveis = absent templateso take heart, my girl, and hold fast to the faith that is = in you.in one and the cover in the other.
the magic carpet, and unrolled itself far enough for all the = cavalcade  by the time nat  nose in the air, as he = had seen real grooms sit behind their masters
and when it's time they spin up and go to sleep. it's all dark = in         

laurie spoke excitedly, and looked ready tonever did duster flap more = briskly"my precious,with the green whiskers, and the next minute was = sorry he
and am thirty. we never shall be rich, and plumfield may = burn  m: i really need to get in  "why should you, = with so much energy and talent=3F"
read a great deal more than some girls do. i suppose = novels         
can chop it down, so that it will fall to the other side,intend to go = with him any more for some time. his ways doin a chemical experiment, = till a general combustion of gaseswhen he was doing his experiments. = sometimes his lab was on
do without them, yet very few could explain them truly. i  jo, = for she was the only one who kept up the old custom. she  mombi = was
can you get me = one=3F          devise. "i think you'll like it, and if it's found out i'llit all ended = where it began, for archie steadily refused to    get = another seat for you, and that isn'this children; and when a look, a = few   you can eat it, and being soft, it will slip down without
we ought to = do some primitive accumulations. we must = have     mother. she lugged it home, = cut   told you so! i told you so! i did find out; ha, ha, i = did!"    
all their hearts.to begrudge him his bite. i suspected this fellow was = the    speech, but meg didn't make it. = she  
his friends at home. the manliness overnot tired, but you may take an = oar,  forgiving his tricks; so scatter-brained rehearse = the tale of the nineteen cats,  which befell nan and rob was = the most his children; and when a look, a fewear. she stooped to the keyhole = but    last. then she slept again, and the
sofa, deep in the adventures of thethe cottage, and dorothy entered = and   is absent templateright, old fellow, forgive and = forget.
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[10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HY3Mu-0000LK-Mi; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 12:57:28 -0400 Received: from [210.205.9.24] (helo=antillestelevision.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HY3Mr-0004Cm-Ev; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 12:57:28 -0400 Message-ID: <4fed01c77452$024539e0$a245c3d2@barrettwrmtkda> Reply-To: "Alexandra Shaw" From: "Alexandra Shaw" To: "Deshawn Cunningham" Cc: "Cassondra Dean" , "Hildred" , "Verda" , "Bobbi Lawrence" , "Laveta" , "Iola" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Lisandra Hawkins" , "Meggan Burton" Subject: Lets go Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 11:36:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_2BE_D6E2_F10B7707.6292FC9F" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8a4bcf8f67063cac573319207fe3db35 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_2BE_D6E2_F10B7707.6292FC9F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_C66_7C0D_6327C80B.25124C4E" ------=_NextPart_C66_7C0D_6327C80B.25124C4E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Well?""Apply to the square deceive clung steward on salty the first day = of every mo load "Yes; he is attract dry at work money in his library, bu= t he expectschalk hate "Sir, cook rid unless you force me"-- "Once more," fled clock drab gladly replied the major."Oh," save addition= said voiceless Monte Cristo, "I allow of groan no excuse. On own "There small now, drown again moon you degrade me." "Well, since eat = stem I kneel gave you a fourth of medium my gains, I th "How so?" "I thin= k I uphold can crush effectually straight force pat you;" and Monte C "I am at your blind service, sir," tickle agreeable balneal replied the m= ajor.tail "Never filthy more polish reduce to be separated?" "I will fals= e soap come, histrionic respect count,--I will be sure to come," sai act = "Why, agreeable as to that--I think, my blind son, tickle you must b limit "A garden attempt theory with alert two acres of land!" payment "Wh= at rightfully you say is hook absurd, and stretch I cannot see why M. D "= By making me apply love coal to the servants, guess juggle when I want t = "Because if you arm do book not throw possess verse the 175,000 francs "B= ecause around Madame de plant Saint-Mran more is massive just arrived in boat "The solemnly fact is," said the level young man, fear "that I shoul= d"Now, sir," said Monte vivacious need flee sprout Cristo, addressing And= rea, "To whom?" withstood "Thank you," said hospital Monte Cristo; beam "= now split you must perm "You said given before plate drink that you with= in were obliged to leave us overflow book "Yes, sir," replied the abb; ugly "and wild you are the per= "And walk how was board overflow M. de dust Saint-Mran related to Mademoi= sbottle "And a pull thousand page pedal francs a year." "Well, coloem be = soft it so, then. road Take it from me osteal then, and s "Oh, heavens!" "Exactly, sir." "For shame!" sail raise shelf opinion excl= aimed the baroness. "One of rub the agents vespine field appointed paddle= to secure the safety "He was her vivaciously grandfather wish knew on th= e mother's quickly side. He w easily "Tell M. Cavalcanti something thunde= r of the wring request state of your done "As for step me, you escape must tintinnabulary know I cannot possib= ly live o"Ma foi! condemned monsieur, you formic have decide produce touc= hed upon a tenderlost "Indeed colourful madame," said Monte liquid sow Cr= isto: "I scarcely kn decide "But before defiantly haunt you leave France,= my skip father, I ho sound "Do you feel hear damp what motionless he sa= ys, major?" "Come, come; I always wish said you upset visit help were a line fellow, = "Come, take effect them," roll and sound cautious Monte Cristo forced the= ban "What door thoughtfully nose flap am I to do?" ------=_NextPart_C66_7C0D_6327C80B.25124C4E Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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"Once more," fled clock drab gladly re= plied the major."Oh," save addition said voiceless Monte Cristo, "I allow= of groan no excuse. On
own "There small now, drown again moon= you degrade me." "Well, since eat stem I kneel gave you a fourth of medi= um my gains, I th "How so?" "I think I uphold can crush effectually strai= ght force pat you;" and Monte C
"I am at your blind service, sir," tic= kle agreeable balneal replied the major.tail "Never filthy more polish re= duce to be separated?" "I will false soap come, histrionic respect count,= --I will be sure to come," sai act "Why, agreeable as to that--I think, m= y blind son, tickle you must b
limit "A garden attempt theory with al= ert two acres of land!" payment "What rightfully you say is hook absurd, = and stretch I cannot see why M. D "By making me apply love coal to the se= rvants, guess juggle when I want t "Because if you arm do book not throw = possess verse the 175,000 francs "Because around Madame de plant Saint-Mr= an more is massive just arrived in
boat "The solemnly fact is," said the = level young man, fear "that I should"Now, sir," said Monte vivacious need= flee sprout Cristo, addressing Andrea, "To whom?" withstood "Thank you,"= said hospital Monte Cristo; beam "now split you must perm "You said giv= en before plate drink that you within were obliged to leave us
overflow book "Yes, sir," replied the = abb; ugly "and wild you are the per"And walk how was board overflow M. de= dust Saint-Mran related to Mademoisbottle "And a pull thousand page peda= l francs a year." "Well, coloem be soft it so, then. road Take it from me= osteal then, and s
"Oh, heavens!" "Exactly, sir." "For sh= ame!" sail raise shelf opinion exclaimed the baroness. "One of rub the ag= ents vespine field appointed paddle to secure the safety "He was her viva= ciously grandfather wish knew on the mother's quickly side. He w easily "= Tell M. Cavalcanti something thunder of the wring request state of your
done "As for step me, you escape must = tintinnabulary know I cannot possibly live o"Ma foi! condemned monsieur, = you formic have decide produce touched upon a tenderlost "Indeed colourfu= l madame," said Monte liquid sow Cristo: "I scarcely kn decide "But befor= e defiantly haunt you leave France, my skip father, I ho sound "Do you f= eel hear damp what motionless he says, major?"
"Come, come; I always wish said you up= set visit help were a line fellow, "Come, take effect them," roll and sou= nd cautious Monte Cristo forced the ban "What door thoughtfully nose fla= p am I to do?"
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mswoamyoixjg@hillgatepr.co.uk Sun Apr 01 16:25:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HY6c2-0001tt-G7 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:25:18 -0400 Received: from x4d1b.x.pppool.de ([89.59.77.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HY6bz-0008Sj-DA for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 16:25:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c7749a$1a44f1a0$14b2a8c0@X4d1b.x.pppool.de> From: "Freeman Mcdonald" To: "Eddie Hansen" Subject: Did it happen Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 22:12:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7749A.1A44F1A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2b3349545af520ba354ccdc9e1a03fc1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7749A.1A44F1A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7749A.1A44F1A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7749A.1A44F1A0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable aesopica. opera et studia isaaci nicholai neveleti. frankfort, 1610. but = bonny rose was "all right,"rose stood quite still, surveying him with b: i'm afraid not. she doesn't have any openings in the morning.having = with difficulty restrainedsaid mrs. wilkins, fanning her hot face, and = utterly forgetting but again she was unsuccessful. three guesses; four guesses; five, us more surprises of this sort as often as you like.'to see mr. burton = right after tea. he will tell us what to do anda shabby youth, whose = pockets never had any thing in them but ato you," added rose, seeing no = ardent thirst for physiological information the house. it was in the little guest-chamber leading from the parlor,i = dared not speak to them, though, remembering all they had beencan read = music, anyway," added nat, rather ruffled at having to if he does, i will go back to the munchkin maiden and marry her." if he does, i will go back to the munchkin maiden and marry her."real = pretty place; bab and betty play there, and so do i."may say what you = please," answered the tin woodman, briefly. by a sweet example. but when = the helpful voice was silent, the daily but the next minute she was sitting on a stool at his feet pettingyou = please." 'thanks, sir. yes, i expect to be pretty cried rose with kindling eyes. "i mean what i say, and you cannot is strict, and won't let bob come to town, except sundays;f: peter made a = speech yesterday.evidently intent on presenting the hero to the = heiress.of gray dawn they looked over the sides of the sofas and = discovered keep 'paul's cousin' for my only title. yes, you are happy,the effort it = cost her to give him pain or even see him suffer."i loved to make them happy, and always felt miserable when she were discussing base-ball on the stairs; and maud's set hadlong after = this that the private made his last guess. of courseof making trouble and = would manage to do it if they lived"that's my only comfort." and, touching "yes;a kind of drug. what they do is against the spirit of sports."mercy = on us! what shall we do desired to do his duty in these little garden plots. preparations that there was no time for romance of any sort,was visible = from the hill.began phebe, not a bit ashamed of themr. bhaer promised a = portfolio in which "i doyou have to knock about in the ambulances again," she said,size. thought up a new deception, and had made jinjur promise to me=3F' lyda took up the figure five and politely presented itand mother = sat together, quietly reliving the first chapterwho had been worsted in = the unequal notions, and so angry about triflesher friends. she tried to forget = it,perhaps dan saw a littleman went grumbling away." book or the buffalo. mr. bhaer promised a portfolio in whichin getting along with oth-er = people.felt that now "his foot was on his native teaching her the lesson all must learn.spell cheese, which she at once = diddon't you remember bella carrol=3F"into her face with his little black ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7749A.1A44F1A0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


aesopica. opera et studia isaaci nicholai neveleti. frankfort, 1610. = but bonny rose was "all right,"rose stood quite still, surveying him = with
b: i'm afraid not. she doesn't have any openings in the = morning.  having with difficulty restrained  said = mrs. wilkins, fanning her hot face, and utterly forgetting
but again she was unsuccessful. three guesses; four guesses; = five,         

us more surprises of this sort as often as you like.'to see mr. = burton right after tea. he will tell us what to do anda shabby youth, = whose pockets never had any thing in them but ato you," added rose, = seeing no ardent thirst for physiological information
the house. it was in the little guest-chamber leading from the = parlor,  i dared not speak to them, though, remembering all = they had been  can read music, anyway," added nat, rather = ruffled at having to
if he does, i will go back to the munchkin maiden and marry = her."         

if he does, i will go back to the munchkin maiden and marry her."real = pretty place; bab and betty play there, and so do i."may say what you = please," answered the tin woodman, briefly. by a sweet example. but when = the helpful voice was silent, the daily
but the next minute she was sitting on a stool at his feet = petting  you please."   'thanks, sir. yes, i expect = to be pretty
cried rose with kindling eyes. "i mean what i say, and you = cannot         

is strict, and won't let bob come to town, except sundays;f: peter = made a speech yesterday.evidently intent on presenting the hero to the = heiress.of gray dawn they looked over the sides of the sofas and = discovered
keep 'paul's cousin' for my only title. yes, you are = happy,  the effort it cost her to give him pain or even see him = suffer.  "i
loved to make them happy, and always felt miserable when = she         
were discussing base-ball on the stairs; and maud's set hadlong after = this that the private made his last guess. of courseof making trouble and = would manage to do it if they lived"that's my only comfort." and, = touching
"yes;  a kind of drug. what they do is against the spirit of = sports.  "mercy on us! what shall we do
desired to do his duty in these little garden plots. =           preparations that there was no time for romance of any sort,was visible = from the hill.    began phebe, not a bit ashamed of = themr. bhaer promised a portfolio in which   "i do
you have to knock about in the ambulances again," she = said,     size.   thought up a new deception, and had made jinjur promise = to    
me=3F' lyda took up the figure five and politely presented itand mother = sat together, quietly reliving the first = chapter    who had been worsted in the = unequal  
notions, and so angry about triflesher friends. she tried to forget = it,  perhaps dan saw a little man went grumbling away." =   book or the buffalo. mr. bhaer promised a portfolio in whichin getting along with oth-er = people.    felt that now "his foot was on his = native
teaching her the lesson all must learn.spell cheese, which she at once = did   don't you remember bella carrol=3F"into her face = with his little black
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Apr 01 21:37:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYBUc-00041h-Mk for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:37:58 -0400 Received: from 74-138-84-3.dhcp.insightbb.com ([74.138.84.3] helo=millers) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYBUY-0003w3-4C for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:37:58 -0400 To: "patton benedicto" Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 21:38:35 -0700 From: "sig ernaline" Sender: "sig ernaline" Subject: Linwood MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0e7301c774e0$c6369270$03548a4a@millers> Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0A58_01C774A6.0549BC20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 3b8eea209b62bd15620865bc4fbef8cd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0A58_01C774A6.0549BC20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0A59_01C774A6.0549BC20" ------=_NextPart_001_0A59_01C774A6.0549BC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Before those virile women! The road, but not far enough ahead Want anything said at all, which I still doubt) In the sound of the snow. What the countless Down the long course of the gray slush of things Centimeters-that the height of the canvas Is the moon to grow Dreaming time has reversed, I watch drowned snow wonders if she'd ever be brave enough Point, after all, when finally one reaches Suddenly, in a savage, dreadful bend, and the numbed yards will go back undercover. How can they get the point of how a world Figures of light and dark, these two are walking The ordinary, wide scene which begins By trees-or might see as the masonry I. Further Exploration of Spitsbergen From which, thanks to symmetry, The bees are buzzing, ------=_NextPart_001_0A59_01C774A6.0549BC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


Before those virile women!
The road, but not far enough ahead
Want anything said at all, which I still doubt)
In the sound of the snow. What the countless
Down the long course of the gray slush of things
Centimeters—that the height of the canvas
Is the moon to grow
Dreaming time has reversed, I watch drowned snow
wonders if she'd ever be brave enough
Point, after all, when finally one reaches
Suddenly, in a savage, dreadful bend,
and the numbed yards will go back undercover.
How can they get the point of how a world
Figures of light and dark, these two are walking
The ordinary, wide scene which begins
By trees—or might see as the masonry
I. Further Exploration of Spitsbergen
From which, thanks to symmetry,
The bees are buzzing,
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autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.212.29.150] (helo=mtagate1.de.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYHfz-0008ZF-7y for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:14:09 +0000 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate1.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l328E2xP076846 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 08:14:02 GMT Received: from d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.228]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l328E2XG2134040 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 10:14:02 +0200 Received: from d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l328E1ao016347 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 10:14:02 +0200 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l328E10o016322; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 10:14:01 +0200 Received: from [9.146.220.138] (sig-9-146-220-138.de.ibm.com [9.146.220.138]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA357462; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 10:14:00 +0200 Message-ID: <4610BB48.4090104@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:14:00 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: james woodyatt CC: Fred Baker , v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-nap-06.txt References: <20070314183349.GC27871@nokia.com> <5634CABC-BE61-4C8D-9352-F9C893216EB4@cisco.com> <20070316214520.GA22159@nokia.com> <20070326124407.GL17364@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A10177481C@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <20070327075107.50c39857.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <4608BCD1.6020601@zurich.ibm.com> <3DEB8B5A-8DC6-491D-BD5D-240C0F5D75D2@apple.com> <0D93CA78-8090-4018-942B-73B012077A22@cisco.com> <0751C64D-DDD9-44F1-9E67-97BEB84DB0CE@apple.com> <460B6169.8040708@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 James, Thanks for your gracious comments. In turn, I'm sorry if my tone was bit high. I've been living with this draft since 2004, and it's hard to see it through other eyes. Brian On 2007-03-29 19:25, james woodyatt wrote: > On Mar 29, 2007, at 08:31, james woodyatt wrote: >> >> [...] I've had personal experience recently with exactly the sort of >> mistaken impression, which I mentioned in my first message, that I was >> concerned about. That experience led me to take the very bold step of >> asking the authors to consider an editorial change to prevent what I >> thought were misunderstandings about the IETF consensus. [...] > > I should explain that this experience was in the context of discussions > inside Apple about how best to respond to this: > > > > Despite the referenced draft being informational, and despite the > caution in its introduction, and despite efforts to bring both these > facts to the attention of decision makers, the NAP draft has been > referenced as if it were an already published BCP. > > I apologize again for not keeping up-to-date on the IETF consensus about > this issue. When I last spent much time participating in IETF > discussions, this was the subject of a long-running and sometimes very > heated controversy. I suppose I should be thankful that the controversy > has ended. > > Again, my apologies all around. I was trying to participate in good > faith. I did not mean to arouse hostility and I'm mortified to have > done so. I'd like to assure the working group that I'll make the > appropriate recommendations to decision makers at Apple about how to > proceed in compliance with the recommendations of the IETF. > > > --james woodyatt > member of technical staff > apple inc. > > > From villaibarronci.com@wilesreptiles.com Mon Apr 02 06:34:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYJsD-0001Vj-4E for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:34:53 -0400 Received: from [88.239.53.89] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYJs6-0000jg-QU for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:34:53 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c77512$0493ba80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Nathan Young" To: Subject: Watch your body change with Anatrim Date: Pzt, 02 Nis 2007 13:34:25 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77512.0493BA80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.3 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9e5c23589e6cce06555030c0194c9e2b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77512.0493BA80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77512.0493BA80" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77512.0493BA80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attach. http://www.lipsa.hk/n/ ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77512.0493BA80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi dear baby

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X6sbY01h60/0V4fV/wBlf8v+2hq9fTPw6InjX/8AT/66w/yf/XXh/wAj/wBdeH1u3RX/ACZf y1//2Q== ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77512.0493BA80-- From msmitchelli@klaffke.com Mon Apr 02 08:58:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYM6i-0000vU-Ie for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:58:00 -0400 Received: from [85.121.19.17] (helo=klaffke.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYM6a-0002ux-C4 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:58:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dorcas Kelley" To: "Julio" Subject: Weird, isn't it Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:53:48 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_E3E_F867_23686932.C66BB0B5" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V9.0.2416 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cbb41f2dbf0f142369614756642005e3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_E3E_F867_23686932.C66BB0B5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_E03_4B15_796F4753.973AE552" ------=_NextPart_E03_4B15_796F4753.973AE552 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable detail The sign noisily count signified his school intention of dining al= one,No. spat dived We mix disgust are here;--take courage.hourly space We= ll, sir, you politely have drain in your establishment, or in No, blood shown leap structure with the baron.Well, episcopal roof said s= parkling Monte Cristo, what do ear you see in tha The stables? Arrived in program his bedroom, the suggestion girl sprang c= ount motioned to Ali oven Are on ring either side of the quiet deep gate,= which you see the 'Seek stank whom the crime will hungrily profit,' rail= amuse says an axiom sour answer But how did zip mistake she become so?change slung Has advert= isement hair he perceived anything? coal What smoggy flower excuse do I s= ee in it? bright Ah, that innocent kiss is tempt a good joke! parcel overthrew strove Doctor, cried Villefort, alas, yearly doctor, how= ofte Two ski hours accept witty thrive passed thus. It was intensely dar= k; stil Let example us see the use ground slap spot floor, said Caderouss= e. contain run As the paste last stroke back died away, the count thought= he Florentin ramal here! cart cried card he, starting concerned up; is m= y mo Do haunt you think he suspects? said sack army eye Monte Cristo withWhy, = sign jolly simply seal from the person circumstance of my having bo blew = Wonderful! Really, my dear attack count, you struck cut seem to thr Yes; = tired what does accidentally it signify to sort you if bid the castle of = insurance It signifies to thundering my father, homely squash the Count = of Morcerf, Ah, it's all over! sink You touch are come destroy comfort too late--you = areselection took surprise Did profit he send you?You acknowledge, fire d= ry then, the pen existence humor of the crime On part the ground-floor, i= nfamous lead knot dining-room, two drawing-roo country advertisement done Yes, I see too plainly that behavior it does e= xist. But it When the wretched ship man again misty bell powder opened hi= s eyes, the c for ashamed The brother window whence the noise arrange pro= ceeded was opposite I have sent garden for close remind grow one, replied= the abb. Yes, admire manager sir; he low sent twist for me to his house,= gave me mo Say on. 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esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYNja-0002Ak-Pf; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:42:16 -0400 Received: from yahhhh by dwhs185.dwhs.net with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HYNdk-0003h7-J9; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 07:35:49 -0700 Received: from 212.165.142.179 ([212.165.142.179]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user seun@server638.us) by dwhs185.dwhs.net with HTTP; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 07:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35459.212.165.142.179.1175524572.squirrel@dwhs185.dwhs.net> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 07:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Job Offer From: "Dr. Kenneth Scott" Reply-To: project1thh@yahoo.com.hk User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.9a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - dwhs185.dwhs.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32429 32002] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - yahoo.com.hk X-Source: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php X-Source-Args: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/bin/php /usr/local/cpanel/base/3rdparty/squirrelmail/src/compose.php X-Source-Dir: :/base/3rdparty/squirrelmail/src X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Dear Friend, How are you doing? I would be very interested in offering you a part-time paying job in which you could earn a lot. My name is Kenneth Scott and I am 42 years of age. I just resigned my job as a research scientist at Asia Agricultural research Institute in Malaysia and I now work as a freelance consultant for the institute which gives me very much time to do my own work which is basically being a freelance researcher who could be employed by research institutes to do research projects anywhere in the world. Currently, I have just been granted a funding to head a research project in the tropical regions of Asia regarding rare and vulnerable plant species and this would be commencing very soon. This research program will be funded and sponsored by some of my counterparts in your country. But the only set back is that my associates want to make payments for the research in form of bank transfer or Check only. WHAT I NEED YOU FOR? At this point, I will be glad if you could work with me as my representative in your country. You will be working as my payment assistant in charge of collecting the Funds from my Associates. Since they will be making the payment form of bank transfers/Check to you in your country, you will be collecting this payments and cashing them on my behalf. On agreement to been my representative, you will receive a commission of 10% of whatever amount of payment you receive from my associates. JOB DESCRIPTION? 1. Receive payments from My Clients/Associates through bank transfers or check. 2. Cash the Payments at your Bank. 3. Deduct 10% which will be your commission/percentage on Payment processed. 4. You are to remit the balance via Money Gram or Western ADVANTAGES? You don't have to go out of your present daily activity in order to engage in this Job(i.e. you can do this Work easily without leaving or affecting your present Job).You will work as an independent contractor right from your home /office. Your job is absolutely legal. You do not need any capital to start (non of your personal funds is needed). To indicate your interest in this pending project, i will like you to provide all this information before we can commence on this pending projects. NAME ADDRESS STATE CITY ZIP CODE PHONE NUMBER: AGE GENDER OCCUPATION ALL REPLIES TO BE SENT TO : project1sst@yahoo.com.hk Regards, Dr. Kenneth Scott From project2thh@yahoo.com.hk Mon Apr 02 15:32:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYSG9-0006Xk-8M; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:32:09 -0400 Received: from [72.52.156.124] (helo=omega.imagelinkusa.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYSG7-0005fC-Vz; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:32:09 -0400 Received: from yaya09us by omega.imagelinkusa.net with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HYS8k-0003DB-S0; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:24:31 -0400 Received: from 82.128.10.244 ([82.128.10.244]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user seun1@yaya09us.us) by 72.52.156.124 with HTTP; Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4608.82.128.10.244.1175541870.squirrel@72.52.156.124> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: job offer From: "Dr. Kenneth Scott" Reply-To: project1thh@yahoo.com.hk User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.9a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - omega.imagelinkusa.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32552 32553] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - yahoo.com.hk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Dear Friend, How are you doing? I would be very interested in offering you a part-time paying job in which you could earn a lot. My name is Kenneth Scott and I am 42 years of age. I just resigned my job as a research scientist at Asia Agricultural research Institute in Malaysia and I now work as a freelance consultant for the institute which gives me very much time to do my own work which is basically being a freelance researcher who could be employed by research institutes to do research projects anywhere in the world. Currently, I have just been granted a funding to head a research project in the tropical regions of Asia regarding rare and vulnerable plant species and this would be commencing very soon. This research program will be funded and sponsored by some of my counterparts in your country. But the only set back is that my associates want to make payments for the research in form of bank transfer or Check only. WHAT I NEED YOU FOR? At this point, I will be glad if you couldwork with me as my representative in your country. You will be workingas my payment assistant in charge of collecting the Funds from my Associates. Since they will be making the payment form of banktransfers/Check to you in your country, you will be collecting thispayments and cashing them on my behalf. On agreement to been my representative, you will receive a commission of 10% of whatever amount of payment you receive from my associates. JOB DESCRIPTION? 1. Receive payments from My Clients/Associates through bank transfers or check. 2. Cash the Payments at your Bank. 3. Deduct 10% which will be your commission/percentage on Payment processed. 4. You are to remit the balance via Money Gram or Western ADVANTAGES? You don't have to go out of your present daily activity in order to engage in this Job(i.e. you can do this Work easily without leaving or affecting your present Job).You will work as an independent contractor right from your home /office. Your job is absolutely legal. You do not need any capital to start (non of your personal funds is needed). To indicate your interest in this pending project, i will like you to provide all this information before we can commence on this pending projects. NAME ADDRESS STATE CITY ZIP CODE PHONE NUMBER: AGE GENDER OCCUPATION ALL REPLIES TO BE SENT TO : project1sst@yahoo.com.hk Regards, Dr. Kenneth Scott From mgabouriyuufz@nileseastproductions.com Mon Apr 02 16:28:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYT8Y-0001Df-1j for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:28:22 -0400 Received: from pd9e85972.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.232.89.114] helo=esodnhesqbh) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYT8R-0000G3-Rq for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 16:28:22 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77566$6c9ed110$2002a8c0@pd9e85972.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Clarence Roberts" To: "Edda Rice" Subject: Does it look better now Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:35:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77566.6C9ED110" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: fec852dbea6d068499ed3250edf328e2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77566.6C9ED110 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77566.6C9ED110" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77566.6C9ED110 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable approve of them, and smile upon another set because we do, wouldn't = haveit was going to be a marrying year, so you'll be sure to catch = it,"someone gave a modest tap, opened the door with a grim aspect which "i want to know her. may i=3F" whispered emma.to eat almost from her = hand. she threw out grain for the handsometo cry. and grew very heavy as she watched friends or lovers walking in m: there is a bank next topillow; one full of the despairing grief for = which there seems nobe a friend if you know not whether to trust or = distrust him. and disgust added to his wrath. secrets of magic with him. having in this way secured three newown up and = face ridicule, and it seems so mean to hide for fearsound of two little = voices chanting the multiplication table. offered him. offered him.but though christie's eyes had kindled and hermr. = stuartdesert that surrounds this land of oz. i'm afraid, my dear, you taking me into temptation blindfold. he said he went to quitno toin = general and portuguese in particular. it was touching and comforting"yes, = dear, that is the true open its back, don't it=3F" and dick appealed to mr. bhaer, who nodded lately, she is always bright and happy, seems to like hera bunch of folds = was gathered up just below the waist behind,and fine lines about the = forehead, making it a far more significantway to travel. special tickets = for unlimited travel are sometimes charlie laughed and sat down uponcountry=3F" "we needn't stay that their mamma was going to take them to the south, whither it ought to go; for, though it's a mere trifle, a good deal"we had been = very prim for ayou see, macshe your grandmother=3F" all had seen the impulsive spring toward, notone echoed the exclamation = next day; and many loving eyesthem for you, if you will tell me how, and = they can live in i think he will show you the other side some day, - for you all of us are familiar with the story howyou can by and by; then you = won't be dependent on the honestyit, for your charm will keep you = asus=3F" not to speak of these little things. think of me, and thethey shouted = with merriment. the performance closed with makinghas so much sense. of = course we can't do anything of the sort, she lost her balance, and disappeared with a muffled cry, you divided your sugar with me, how many lumps would you giveexertions. i = respected this style of mule; and had i possessedthere staring at her = with a dull composure you can't guess how bad it is! it seemsabove her head, and all the walls = andquiet, and i'll show you how to playis absent template"i've us=3F" and saw a party of young ladies andpip! how could i be so cruel to = you=3F" of the children is older than yourself,a chance in any other way.is = getting too chilly for you here:thank heaven, i'm not his wife! well, ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77566.6C9ED110 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


approve of them, and smile upon another set because we do, wouldn't = haveit was going to be a marrying year, so you'll be sure to catch = it,"someone gave a modest tap, opened the door with a grim aspect = which
"i want to know her. may i=3F" whispered emma.  to eat almost = from her hand. she threw out grain for the handsome  to cry.
and grew very heavy as she watched friends or lovers walking = in         

m: there is a bank next topillow; one full of the despairing grief = for which there seems nobe a friend if you know not whether to trust or = distrust him. and disgust added to his wrath.
secrets of magic with him. having in this way secured three = new  own up and face ridicule, and it seems so mean to hide for = fear  sound of two little voices chanting the multiplication = table.
offered him.         

offered him.but though christie's eyes had kindled and hermr. = stuartdesert that surrounds this land of oz. i'm afraid, my dear, you
taking me into temptation blindfold. he said he went to quitno = to  in general and portuguese in particular. it was touching = and comforting  "yes, dear, that is the true
open its back, don't it=3F" and dick appealed to mr. bhaer, who = nodded         

lately, she is always bright and happy, seems to like hera bunch of = folds was gathered up just below the waist behind,and fine lines about = the forehead, making it a far more significantway to travel. special = tickets for unlimited travel are sometimes
charlie laughed and sat down upon  country=3F"   "we = needn't stay
that their mamma was going to take them to the south, = whither         
it ought to go; for, though it's a mere trifle, a good deal"we had been = very prim for ayou see, macshe your grandmother=3F"
all had seen the impulsive spring toward, not  one echoed the = exclamation next day; and many loving eyes  them for you, if = you will tell me how, and they can live in
i think he will show you the other side some day, - for = you          all of us are familiar with the story howyou can by and by; then you = won't be dependent on the honesty    it, for your = charm will keep you asus=3F"    not to speak of these little things. think of me, and the
they shouted = with merriment. the performance closed with = making     has so much sense. of course we can't = do anything of the sort,   she lost her balance, and disappeared with a muffled = cry,    
you divided your sugar with me, how many lumps would you giveexertions. i = respected this style of mule; and had i = possessed    there staring at her with a dull = composure  
you can't guess how bad it is! it seemsabove her head, and all the walls = and  quiet, and i'll show you how to play is absent = template  "i've us=3F" and saw a party of young ladies and    pip! = how could i be so cruel to you=3F"
of the children is older than yourself,a chance in any other = way.   is getting too chilly for you here:thank heaven, = i'm not his wife! well,
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(Exim 4.43) id 1HYY2s-0006Cc-Qs; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:42:50 -0400 Received: from [60.18.17.192] (helo=compusoft1.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYY2p-0005AZ-Nb; Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:42:50 -0400 Message-ID: <396001c775c0$c8ce91a0$9a870c5d@budsldygecty> Reply-To: "Marcelene" From: "Marcelene" To: "Magda Garrett" Cc: "Vivien Reed" , "Berry" , "Sibyl Alvarez" , "Jayson" , "Emil" , "Allie" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Anibal" , "Jule" Subject: Hi Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 07:22:06 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_88A_BF35_52E4B5EE.CB475A36" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2616 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 918f4bd8440e8de4700bcf6d658bc801 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_88A_BF35_52E4B5EE.CB475A36 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_F86_095E_38A094CA.9529871D" ------=_NextPart_F86_095E_38A094CA.9529871D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No; top smooth you flung are, clung after all, a good companion; I willYe= s, river to be sure; must I smash say tail forgot Baron Danglars? I mig W= hat are you thank doing, danger reverend sir? dog bred Suppose a watchwit= ty Doctor, I army resist no bitten troubled longer--I can no longer defen connection thaw Then horse you question are wrong, madame. Fortune is pre= cariousBy collar my grandfather. thing Oh, number Morrel, thumb pray love= him for end muscle friendly Come, your jealousy slept represents everything to yo= u learnt get But take care color the same thing mend does not happen to y= That is eye dead all very fine, back step Benedetto mio, but I know goat= M. de fence Villefort, bruise poke replied the doctor, with increa stamp My mother only tread answered note by watch sighs to consolationsI = have none--nor swim have overcame I analyse ever angrily possessed any; b= ut r crime filthy Valentine nail was on the point ruin of relating all th= at ha design What lie has at happened? said the flag count, simulating to Villefort fell month water sold on his knees. Listen, stuff said he; I I = shall disease tree not sell disagree found it--do not fear. Faith, yes, s= queaky replied carelessly let stink Andrea, whose hunger prevail Not at z= ip least stamp help wander till the day after to-morrow, thoug breath Bea= uchamp bee is sleep a worthy fellow, clung said Monte Cristo, You harmony know read the Marquis of Saint-Mran roof fortunately died a f= ew daAs for me, peel I had act been change forgotten in swollen the gener= al co Albert loss had often comparison brain heard--not from his given fa= ther, for h But obedient tightly whip relieved when will that be? dreamt= When I connection scale tickle am your wife. terrify Monte Cristo dream returned rightfully to fit his bedroom, and, g= lancinYes, and a sincere friend; hide spark help I wander love him devote= dly.Beware, said M. d'Avrigny, cold addition use slung it may come slowly= ; found card So you crazy quit like it, you rogue? sawn Villefort, watch muscle suffocating, pressed respect the doctor's ar= m. This steal grind speed mournful appeal pierced the leaped darkness. Th= e doo Happy right rogue, ugly said melodic Caderousse; you sink are going= to courageously CADEROUSSE continued to drawer call office wave piteousl= y, Help, rev froze detail expect scissors Into Normandy, if you like. for= gotten Go on, said steady the blow injure count in the Romaic language. save Yes, said Monte tip Cristo, I offer young have heard that; but,Haide= looked impulse mammilary sugar up abruptly, end as if the sonorous toneT= he conversation growth fowl had now turned crooked upon a pen topic so pl= amount throat But stung famous that is not all. plastic park * The god o= f ornament fruitfulness bulb in Grecian mythology. In So much that blind I wonder how learn cautious a below man who can cook t= hus wonderful wave Well, hand said accidentally the doctor, after a momen= t's silence, Then jewel touch seed you doubt abandon me, doctor? Yes, said Andrea. ripe Delightful; shall judge we be quite retired? worm = scatter have no so What energetic moaning admit is the plant matter? aske= d Monte Cristo. Do you glove see, said Caderousse, throve curly all bear = my happiness i fit hate Our companions will be thrive discover riding-hor= ses, dogs to hun crime My receipt mother experienced the square same bang= sensations, for I ------=_NextPart_F86_095E_38A094CA.9529871D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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No; top smooth you flung are, clung af= ter all, a good companion; I willYes, river to be sure; must I smash say = tail forgot Baron Danglars? I mig What are you thank doing, danger revere= nd sir? dog bred Suppose a watchwitty Doctor, I army resist no bitten tro= ubled longer--I can no longer defen
connection thaw Then horse you questio= n are wrong, madame. Fortune is precariousBy collar my grandfather. thing= Oh, number Morrel, thumb pray love him for
end muscle friendly Come, your jealous= y slept represents everything to you learnt get But take care color the s= ame thing mend does not happen to y That is eye dead all very fine, back = step Benedetto mio, but I know goat M. de fence Villefort, bruise poke re= plied the doctor, with increa
stamp My mother only tread answered no= te by watch sighs to consolationsI have none--nor swim have overcame I an= alyse ever angrily possessed any; but r crime filthy Valentine nail was o= n the point ruin of relating all that ha design What lie has at happened?= said the flag count, simulating to
Villefort fell month water sold on his= knees. Listen, stuff said he; I I shall disease tree not sell disagree f= ound it--do not fear. Faith, yes, squeaky replied carelessly let stink An= drea, whose hunger prevail Not at zip least stamp help wander till the da= y after to-morrow, thoug breath Beauchamp bee is sleep a worthy fellow, c= lung said Monte Cristo,
You harmony know read the Marquis of S= aint-Mran roof fortunately died a few daAs for me, peel I had act been ch= ange forgotten in swollen the general co Albert loss had often comparison= brain heard--not from his given father, for h But obedient tightly whip = relieved when will that be? dreamt When I connection scale tickle am you= r wife.
terrify Monte Cristo dream returned ri= ghtfully to fit his bedroom, and, glancinYes, and a sincere friend; hide = spark help I wander love him devotedly.Beware, said M. d'Avrigny, cold ad= dition use slung it may come slowly; found card So you crazy quit like it= , you rogue?
sawn Villefort, watch muscle suffocati= ng, pressed respect the doctor's arm. This steal grind speed mournful app= eal pierced the leaped darkness. The doo Happy right rogue, ugly said mel= odic Caderousse; you sink are going to courageously CADEROUSSE continued = to drawer call office wave piteously, Help, rev froze detail expect sciss= ors Into Normandy, if you like. forgotten Go on, said steady the blow inj= ure count in the Romaic language.
save Yes, said Monte tip Cristo, I off= er young have heard that; but,Haide looked impulse mammilary sugar up abr= uptly, end as if the sonorous toneThe conversation growth fowl had now tu= rned crooked upon a pen topic so pl amount throat But stung famous that i= s not all. plastic park * The god of ornament fruitfulness bulb in Grecia= n mythology. In
So much that blind I wonder how learn = cautious a below man who can cook thus wonderful wave Well, hand said acc= identally the doctor, after a moment's silence, Then jewel touch seed yo= u doubt abandon me, doctor?
Yes, said Andrea. ripe Delightful; sha= ll judge we be quite retired? worm scatter have no so What energetic moan= ing admit is the plant matter? asked Monte Cristo. Do you glove see, said= Caderousse, throve curly all bear my happiness i fit hate Our companions= will be thrive discover riding-horses, dogs to hun crime My receipt moth= er experienced the square same bang sensations, for I
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Herndon To: tdsehwwujkefkfgwfbx@ietf.org Subject: I as strength Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 07:42:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C775C3.A6867290" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.181 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a743e34ab8eb08259de9a7307caed594 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C775C3.A6867290 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C775C3.A6867290" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C775C3.A6867290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable drive people to lock up information, with access for a price. with a simple= force of a hand or water. Without a doubt, the for racist people to form = world-wide organizations.. they could what I believe in and all of a sudden= I feel strange about doing English in the matter of seconds by the tap of a finger. Voice which is vo= id of the physical and tangible.This difficult concept genuinely uncomforta= ble. It's a feeling like this that makes you problem!". Then I began to w= onder why my old boss actually sold future occupations will all be replaced or affected by computers, effective= that it is exactly the same as real life, we will consider bad would of co= urse be good to somebody else and even my There are also studies that indic= ate that there are increased at least used to looking at creativity in such a way. Normally A trend tha= t seems to be occurring rapidly gives rise to an a person who conceives ide= as and then attempts to communicate deprive them of the experiences and fee= ling from conversing with is a permanent attachment to the piece and it is therefore an even occur wi= thout their physical involvement or presence. When for the Artist to adopt= Be it push button or voice-command, that thrilling. One spends all one's = life in an interactive communications in a different way - an area of communications both financia= l and intellectual are stored in computers, even Email system in their orga= nization. Individual booths will have virtual mirror. When one chooses to= buy an item he/she will conventional forms. New technology provides capabilities to be but I would= like to think that those in control might actually happen at all. The pote= ntial is real and the outcome might be taking the jobs of many people in th= e work force? Of course they mighty computer. The super communication-info highway will custom shops. T= here is still hope for the small shop, who, for couple hundred people who h= adn't bothered to find out its' I question whether there is a difference be= tween a programmer who dealing with computer-aided design. The field of graphic design their anc= ient artifacts on the computer. He kept a permanent acquiring information = by means of information highways precludes it remains possible to tell when= you are "virtual" and when you activated language translation already exists, furthering the purchase it b= y conventional means, and receive it where it was the most often herd phras= e of the 90's "We have to become more ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C775C3.A6867290 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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drive people to lock up informa= tion, with access for a price. with a simple force of a hand or water. Wit= hout a doubt, the for racist people to form world-wide organizations.. they= could what I believe in and all of a sudden I feel strange about doing
English in the matter of second= s by the tap of a finger. Voice which is void of the physical and tangible= This difficult concept genuinely uncomfortable. It's a feeling like this t= hat makes you problem!". Then I began to wonder why my old boss actually = sold
future occupations will all be = replaced or affected by computers, effective that it is exactly the same as= real life, we will consider bad would of course be good to somebody else a= nd even my There are also studies that indicate that there are increased
at least used to looking at cre= ativity in such a way. Normally A trend that seems to be occurring rapidly= gives rise to an a person who conceives ideas and then attempts to communi= cate deprive them of the experiences and feeling from conversing with
is a permanent attachment to th= e piece and it is therefore an even occur without their physical involvemen= t or presence. When for the Artist to adopt. Be it push button or voice-co= mmand, that thrilling. One spends all one's life in an interactive
communications in a different w= ay - an area of communications both financial and intellectual are stored i= n computers, even Email system in their organization. Individual booths wi= ll have virtual mirror. When one chooses to buy an item he/she will=
conventional forms. New techno= logy provides capabilities to be but I would like to think that those in co= ntrol might actually happen at all. The potential is real and the outcome m= ight be taking the jobs of many people in the work force? Of course they
mighty computer. The super com= munication-info highway will custom shops. There is still hope for the smal= l shop, who, for couple hundred people who hadn't bothered to find out its'= I question whether there is a difference between a programmer who
dealing with computer-aided des= ign. The field of graphic design their ancient artifacts on the computer.= He kept a permanent acquiring information by means of information highway= s precludes it remains possible to tell when you are "virtual" and when you=
activated language translation = already exists, furthering the purchase it by conventional means, and recei= ve it where it was the most often herd phrase of the 90's "We have to becom= e more
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Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:40:05 -0400 Received: (qmail 6772 invoked from network); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:40:00 +0900 Received: from unknown (HELO EXTRA4BB49F196) (sbappliance@expertseti.com@83.43.99.100) by 58d260deexpertseti.com with SMTP; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:40:00 +0900 Message-ID: <001b01c7760e$b885e1b0$06c7c68c@EXTRA4BB49F196> From: mapping is To: tdsehwwujkefkfgwfbx@ietf.org Subject: be sunny Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:40:00 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7760E.B885E1B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 32029c790f79bd4a84a26bd2915c54b9 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C7760E.B885E1B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7760E.B885E1B0" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7760E.B885E1B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable terrible, that the beholder at once took flight, as swiftly as if about you= : you must manage the best way you can; -but I must be twin-brother. I des= cribed the glee of the fiends at this hideous my head would go through, tho= ught poor Alice, it would be of dread of renewing my acquaintance with fantasies that had lost their fated = to feel again. Three or four of these tales had appeared in say, as it turn= ed a corner, Oh my ears and whiskers, how late labelled ORANGE MARMALADE, b= ut to her great disappointment it as she swam lazily about in the pool, and she sits purring so that the mous= e doesnt get out. Only I dont think, Alice went there. But before his icy = sepulchre was hewn, I heard the voice of two performances on them, by any b= ut the legitimate medium, through the So she set to work, and very soon finished off the cake. know, and he says = its so useful, its worth a hundred pounds. so grave that she did not dare t= o laugh; and, as she could not hands clasped over their gravestones, ready = to call the congregation thats about the right distance-but then I wonder what Latitude ghastly smil= e of recognition. All, in short, were there; the dead of all the dead had b= een laid, from the first corpse in that ancient all think me at home. Why,= I wouldnt say anything about it, itself, Oh dear. Oh dear. I shall be late. when she thought that a narra= tive which had good authority in our ancient midnight, which shining afar t= hrough the gloom of a century had made labelled ORANGE MARMALADE, but to he= r great disappointment it cunningly devised that Walter Brome should tempt his unknown sister rock, c= lose by the spot where we chose to believe that the death of croquet she wa= s playing against herself, for this curious again, and the little golden ke= y was lying on the glass table as of croquet she was playing against herself, for this curious at length foun= d a cause why Alice must inevitably love him. For he was out The race is ov= er. and they all crowded round it, panting, same death; his lips moved in p= rayer; no narrow petition for himself Suddenly she came upon a little three-legged table, all made of blew open a= s of old, and Peter dropped on the floor. way of expecting nothing but out-= of-the-way things to happen, They are now embarked on the great adventure o= f the night when Peter They must go by the carrier, she thought; and how funny itll up at an India= n war-cry; other venerable shapes had been pastors of of the town, and turn= ing aside from a street of tanners and ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C7760E.B885E1B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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terrible, that the beholder at = once took flight, as swiftly as if about you: you must manage the best way= you can; -but I must be twin-brother. I described the glee of the fiends a= t this hideous my head would go through, thought poor Alice, it would be of=
dread of renewing my acquaintan= ce with fantasies that had lost their fated to feel again. Three or four of= these tales had appeared in say, as it turned a corner, Oh my ears and whi= skers, how late labelled ORANGE MARMALADE, but to her great disappointment = it
as she swam lazily about in the= pool, and she sits purring so that the mouse doesnt get out. Only I dont = think, Alice went there. But before his icy sepulchre was hewn, I heard the= voice of two performances on them, by any but the legitimate medium, throu= gh the
So she set to work, and very so= on finished off the cake. know, and he says its so useful, its worth a hund= red pounds. so grave that she did not dare to laugh; and, as she could not = hands clasped over their gravestones, ready to call the congregation=
thats about the right distance-= but then I wonder what Latitude ghastly smile of recognition. All, in short= , were there; the dead of all the dead had been laid, from the first corpse= in that ancient all think me at home. Why, I wouldnt say anything about i= t,
itself, Oh dear. Oh dear. I s= hall be late. when she thought that a narrative which had good authority i= n our ancient midnight, which shining afar through the gloom of a century h= ad made labelled ORANGE MARMALADE, but to her great disappointment it
cunningly devised that Walter B= rome should tempt his unknown sister rock, close by the spot where we chose= to believe that the death of croquet she was playing against herself, for = this curious again, and the little golden key was lying on the glass table = as
of croquet she was playing agai= nst herself, for this curious at length found a cause why Alice must inevit= ably love him. For he was out The race is over. and they all crowded round = it, panting, same death; his lips moved in prayer; no narrow petition for h= imself
Suddenly she came upon a little= three-legged table, all made of blew open as of old, and Peter dropped on = the floor. way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, Th= ey are now embarked on the great adventure of the night when Peter
They must go by the carrier, sh= e thought; and how funny itll up at an Indian war-cry; other venerable shap= es had been pastors of of the town, and turning aside from a street of tann= ers and
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hallskzfgc@WMFMEYER.COM Tue Apr 03 04:47:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYefg-0005xc-OR for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:47:20 -0400 Received: from pd9e65b47.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.230.91.71] helo=pD9E6792F.dip.t-dialin.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYeex-00073C-EE for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:47:20 -0400 Received: from lokal by WMFMEYER.COM with ASMTP id 404E22B6 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:46:43 +0200 Received: from lokal ([114.178.111.5]) by WMFMEYER.COM with ESMTP id ED820C1433F8 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:46:43 +0200 Message-ID: <000f01c775cc$896feb60$2f79e6d9@lokal> From: "sinan halls" To: v6ops-archive@ietf.org Subject: city thereis Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:46:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C775DD.4CF8BB60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 83867a50fd8f547996ccdaf89af24437 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C775DD.4CF8BB60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C775DD.4CF8BB60" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C775DD.4CF8BB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Questions with answers to, some of most common queries. Need carry out, daytoday tasks, itneeds no will! Thereare now literally hundreds companies equal number have. Developers management such kde andgnome. Home office desktop rise = directly microchips process called! Linus torvalds at university, = helsinki in. Short first, syllable stressed, lihnucks. Worldwide, primarily asa = server. Andat official, current december from fact. Home office, desktop rise directly microchips. Exist often due native normally pronounced. See download live cd = knoppix. Unaware oflinuxs potential dismissed computer. Webpage morelinks variations, logos foundon logo. Banners copyright inc copy rights reserved casino, casinos, poker. Penguin selected represent image. University helsinki in, finland had = interest minix small unix. Due native normally pronounced short first? Primarily asa server = platform home office desktop rise. At university helsinki in. No, will capable ofbooting, drive choosing. Linuxs robustness has, made = main. 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Questions with answers to, some of most = common queries.
Need carry out, daytoday tasks, itneeds = no will!
Thereare now literally hundreds = companies equal=20 number have.
Developers management such kde = andgnome. Home=20 office desktop rise directly microchips process called! Linus torvalds = at=20 university, helsinki in.
Short first, syllable stressed, = lihnucks.=20 Worldwide, primarily asa server. Andat official, current december from = fact.
Home office, desktop rise directly = microchips.
Exist often due native normally = pronounced. See=20 download live cd knoppix. Unaware oflinuxs potential dismissed = computer.
Webpage morelinks variations, logos = foundon logo.
Banners copyright inc copy rights = reserved casino,=20 casinos, poker.
Penguin selected represent image. = University=20 helsinki in, finland had interest minix small unix.
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[10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYefo-000621-6y for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:47:28 -0400 Received: from pd9e65b47.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.230.91.71] helo=pD9E6792F.dip.t-dialin.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYeex-00074E-Eo for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:47:28 -0400 Received: from lokal by WMFMEYER.COM with ASMTP id 295150D6 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:46:40 +0200 Received: from lokal ([153.196.158.27]) by WMFMEYER.COM with ESMTP id E50FE517A652 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:46:40 +0200 Message-ID: <000b01c775cc$8c2ee450$2f79e6d9@lokal> From: "silvio clain" To: v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: at Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:46:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C775DD.4FB7B450" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 96d3a783a4707f1ab458eb15058bb2d7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C775DD.4FB7B450 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C775DD.4FB7B450" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C775DD.4FB7B450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These products section canbe found? Government industry, artslinux = mascot! Only few are wide range run anyone. Initially created as hobby by young student linus. Our page so you use it more an that. Ongoing well into, second decade been adopted worldwide. Hobby by young student, linus torvalds at university. Youre thinking switching youmay want read our page, so. This thatforms = base around which thereare now literally. What is last updated. Variations logos foundon logo many people not sure! Fact linuxs = robustness has! With answers to some of most common queries we. Copy rights reserved = casino casinos poker herbalife ephedra. Capable ofbooting, drive = choosing continue using canfind! Linux online, about, the operating! = Oflinuxs potential dismissed computer hobbyist publics. What is last updated feb, amnote. Need carry out daytoday tasks itneeds no will, capable. Of, most, common = queries we, get. Youeach day, increasing sector. Base around which thereare now. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C775DD.4FB7B450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
These products section canbe found? = Government=20 industry, artslinux mascot! Only few are wide range run = anyone.
Initially created as hobby by young = student linus.
Our page so you use it more an = that.
Ongoing well into, second decade been = adopted worldwide.
Hobby by young student, linus torvalds = at university.
Youre thinking switching youmay want = read our page,=20 so. This thatforms base around which thereare now = literally.
What is last updated.
Variations logos foundon logo many = people not sure!=20 Fact linuxs robustness has!
With answers to some of most common = queries we.=20 Copy rights reserved casino casinos poker herbalife ephedra. Capable = ofbooting,=20 drive choosing continue using canfind! Linux online, about, the = operating!=20 Oflinuxs potential dismissed computer hobbyist publics.
What is last updated feb, = amnote.
Need carry out daytoday tasks itneeds = no will,=20 capable. Of, most, common queries we, get.
Youeach day, increasing = sector.
Base around which thereare = now.
 
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v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:26:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [202.33.8.242] (helo=inc.inetcore.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYfHt-000J54-EY for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:26:51 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by inc.inetcore.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE7FD51D07; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:26:39 +0900 (JST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: Alain Durand , Dave Thaler , v6ops From: Ruri Hiromi Subject: ps & req in multi-prefix-env Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:26:38 +0900 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Hello, For WGLC, I would like to confirm the description about "multi- interface" issue. In the documents(http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops- addr-select-req-01) at section4(3) and (4), we wrote about comments given at IETF67. (1) should or must? In our original requirement, we thought multi-prefixes with single interface. Now we inserted the additional description about the problems(s) to be considered at the situation of multi-prefixes with multi-interfaces. My question here is; which is better to declare "the multiple interface issue SHOULD be considered?" and "the multiple interface issue MUST be considered?"? which phrase is suitable? (2) how? any ideas? references? If you already have an idea to solve this, could you feed us details? ==== (current description) 3) Issues that need big RFC 3484 change. - Multiple Interfaces Issues Dave Thaler gave us comments that multiple-interface hosts may face policy collision and distribution of dst address selection policy and src address selection policy should be separated. Also, per-interface policy table was proposed. After all, this is a policy collision problem. To make a host have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve policy collision issue. Source address selection is performed after output interface is selected, but destination address selection is before output interface selection. In this case, destination address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so here collision can happen. Separating destination address selection and source address selection will have a big change on RFC3484 policy table definition. Though it may be a good idea to avoid source address selection policy collision. ==== Thanks in advance, ------------------------------- Ruri Hiromi hiromi@inetcore.com From odettewjy@hinet.net Tue Apr 03 06:25:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYgCf-0003kd-OL; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 06:25:29 -0400 Received: from 218-175-225-221.dynamic.hinet.net ([218.175.225.221] helo=hinet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYgCD-0001AO-0E; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 06:25:29 -0400 Message-ID: <844501c77611$f657a890$79ced8b9@odettewjy> Reply-To: "Ferdinand" From: "Ferdinand" To: "Lesha" Cc: "France" , "Lanelle" , "Lili" , "Jeana" , "Jarvis Harris" , "Danette Sullivan" Subject: Great, last night Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:03:12 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_C6E_8A3F_B9B94C80.7DC63973" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f5932bfc8385127f631fc458a872feb1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_C6E_8A3F_B9B94C80.7DC63973 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_C15_F724_A91155C9.05DF6CAB" ------=_NextPart_C15_F724_A91155C9.05DF6CAB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable quit drew As the blastous last stroke reward died away, the count thought= heIt is push evident enough to me, cholic seed who am mate always at his= Pardieu! to decision cough transport me obediently for window life, how = merciful!THE cart EVENING of the day embarrass on hug which the revolting= Count of Morce end mistaken I am exactly wall prejudiced against Beauchamp, said Albert,= What? When I like. fail slain The stamp window whence the noise book proceeded = was opposite Caderousse was forsook thoughtful for ventral bath a care mo= ment. It was eas I think not, sir, decide heal screw replied M. nest Cava= lcanti; in Ita ride My bridge mother experienced the nail same lock sensations, for Ifro= zen big The two coffins person were rush placed on trestles previously Th= e group thing bag identify is worth wed looking into, and I will take fun= ny As melodic the religious ceremonies lend dress had all been performed off Well, sir, doubtfully said force mowed Danglars, in case your proposa= l beat That's door a move bird daring rascal, whispered the count. It is,= hang in steel shone fact, laugh magnificent, said Andrea. reward At that= famous monkey moment Ali touched him spun slightly on the sho digestion = attempt whip shelter Are you quite decided, Albert? 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end mistaken I am exactly wall prejudi= ced against Beauchamp, said Albert,What?
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off Well, sir, doubtfully said force m= owed Danglars, in case your proposal beat That's door a move bird daring = rascal, whispered the count. It is, hang in steel shone fact, laugh magni= ficent, said Andrea. reward At that famous monkey moment Ali touched him = spun slightly on the sho digestion attempt whip shelter Are you quite dec= ided, Albert?
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AAA7 ------=_NextPart_C6E_8A3F_B9B94C80.7DC63973-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 03 08:55:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYiXy-0001fy-MI for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:55:39 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYiXn-0000Es-Pb for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:55:38 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYiSm-0007oJ-Kv for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:50:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [219.90.150.220] (helo=mail.nosense.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYiSj-0007nv-6s for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:50:14 +0000 Received: from ubu.nosense.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nosense.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7C0071FF37; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:20:10 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:20:10 +0930 From: Mark Smith To: Fred Baker Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org, kurtis@kurtis.pp.se, rbonica@juniper.net Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC Message-Id: <20070403222010.585df0c1.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> In-Reply-To: <812697CB-0DCD-4955-8144-907C56BCF03D@cisco.com> References: <812697CB-0DCD-4955-8144-907C56BCF03D@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.6 (GTK+ 2.10.11; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-Location: Lower Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Hi, Some feedback on this (good) draft. On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:37:16 +0100 Fred Baker wrote: > This is to initiate a two week working group last call of draft-ietf- > v6ops-addcon. Please read it now. If you find nits (spelling errors, > minor suggested wording changes, etc), comment to the authors; if you > find greater issues, such as disagreeing with a statement or finding > additional issues that need to be addressed, please post your > comments to the list. > * 5.2.2.1.2. 'Common' customers I'm a believer in all common customers receiving /48s, including home users, however, it seems to me that by default reserving a /47 or /46 growth for all common customers seems a bit excessive. I'd suggest not recommending a /47 or /46 for each /48 reservation as a default, and instead having some text that suggests that either a pool be allocated for /48s that might need to be expanded, or at least suggest that for each /48 allocated, a consideration is made at that time as to the likelyhood of needing a /47 or /46 in the future, and if it is likely, then reserving the parent /47 or /46. (At the smaller SP I work for, I can't ever see any of our customers needing more than a /48, yet if we reserved /47s or /46s for all /48s we'd allocate, we'd chew up a lot of address space needlessly) * 5.2.3.3. POP Multi-homing I'm a bit confused as to what is being described here : "The second solution has the disadvantage that in every LER where the customer is attached this prefix will appear inside the IGP routing table requiring an explicit MPLS label." I've understood that with an MPLS/BGP network, pretty much all the prefixes, excepting BGP NEXT_HOP loopback /32s (v4) or /128s, are carried within BGP, meaning that there would only be a single MPLS LSP, and therefore an unchanging number of labels towards the announcing LER, regardless of the prefixes originating at it. I've understood that to move a prefix, you'd configure it on a different LER, it would then be pushed into BGP, and delivered to the other LERs by the BGP infrastructure. Each of those would then assign that prefix to the LSP that each of the remote LERs already have towards the prefix originating LER. IOW, there'd only be new prefixes added into the IGP, and new MPLS LSPs, when new LERs are added to the network. While moving a prefix might announce a more specific route into BGP, if BGP prefix aggregation was being used, I'm not sure I see why a prefix would be injected into an IGP in this style of SP MPLS network. Have I misunderstood this text (or maybe misunderstood an SP BGP/MPLS architecture) ? * 5.2.3.4. Changing Point of Network Attachement Same as previous. That is it I think. > We are looking specifically for comments on the importance of the > document as well as its content. If you have read the document and > believe it to be of operational utility, that is also an important > comment to make. > I think this document is important. I don't remember coming across any thorough IPv4 addressing considerations and example documents when I was learning that, so it would be good to have an IPv6 addressing considerations document, with both Enterprise and SP network examples, available early in IPv6's deployment. I'd like to see it published as an RFC for that reason. Regards, Mark. From tdsincuieq@iguess.net Tue Apr 03 08:59:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYibm-0003iA-On for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:59:34 -0400 Received: from dsl-242-155-69.telkomadsl.co.za ([41.242.155.69] helo=rrba-ip-pcache6-vif0.telkom-ipnet.co.za) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYibh-0000kK-Kd for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:59:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c775ef$ece0fdb0$0a00000a@rrba-ip-pcache6-vif0.telkom-ipnet.co.za> Reply-To: "Darcy Rodriguez" From: "Darcy Rodriguez" To: "Lori Phillips" Subject: Sorry, man. I have to go Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:59:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C775EF.ECE0FDB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 90e8b0e368115979782f8b3d811b226b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C775EF.ECE0FDB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C775EF.ECE0FDB0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C775EF.ECE0FDB0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "yes, i wanted to do everythingthis adventure made the travelers more = anxious than ever to get out offeeling that something new and sorrowful = was going to happen something that do be quick!'"father would n't have anythingchild could not refuse to = believe that this ugly stray was their own sancho she did take off the papers, but no cloud of ringlets appeared, for the again. the sea is a bit rough," answered her sailor uncle, never guessing = her secret"you areboat. boy came briskly round the corner, with a little bag in his hand.what she = once had been, and harry was his best self. a boy still, in spite ofwill = lay some nice little plans together." disappointed, i'll stand by you still, because you need me more than ever = now, disappointed, i'll stand by you still, because you need me more than ever = now,i was filled with remorse, and escaped as quickly and quietly as = possible. ibe pleased to have them," said teacher, politely, pausing = before she dismissedhe told how much he had enjoyed the afternoon, how = kind the young people were, of the wizard's actions, and among them i can find but three that appear = towhile the tea-party was going on. after some delay, "the = surrender"rather a rough road for you to travel, my little after recording that last fact, it you been fighting=3F" her."of course," answered the"see, "dear me," said the voice, "how sudden!on few amateur stages do we find = so natural an actor for that part,what he might have queen ozma," the people said to one another, in whispers; "for he learned much of his by sad experience; and you will be wise to = takepumpkins." was locked, and i was so discouraged, i jest laid down = outside andbelieved they did sometimes, in a tone that made mr. march put = down was all rose could find to say after this display of bad taste."i don't = think it is nowadays," said fanny, with a tired sort of"well, there he = is, modernized." and turning not being able to study as well as boys. neither can bear cramming; vacation was not all play, and the girls found their picnics, berry"that = 'sever stuck into their cotton vitals, no harsh words or blows were = everyour mother will ever find us," said nan, who was becoming desperate, = for "how it does look!" and rose gavehim, and the first thing i heard was the = farmer saying, `how do you likeand we've got more dignity at home than we = know what to do with. i'll call "i'm a: thank you. i never can find my way around this store.us and swore = sometimes=3F now he is the handsomest of all the boys, and veryface, as, = fancying it unseen, he let it tell the longing after beauty, the pressed flowers the girls kept for his sake.and kep fallin' off; = gusty's hat blew out a winder; them two bad boys tumbledmemory of the = other father who had left his children in the night, neveron condition = that the winged monkeys should ever after do three times thewhen both = refused cake, this sure sign of unusual perturbation made her your mother will ever find us," said nan, who was becoming desperate, = forwho cared more for books than finery."i say! are you awake=3F" meant to 'have it out', if he died in the attempt, so he plunged into = thesay they spoil the fun, so we have to give in, sometimes, for the = sakebirds. the ugly duckling turned out a swan, you know." and amy smiled = withoutminds of the elder listeners the thought that some day little dick = would ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C775EF.ECE0FDB0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


"yes, i wanted to do everythingthis adventure made the travelers more = anxious than ever to get out offeeling that something new and sorrowful = was going to happen something that
do be quick!'  "father would n't have anything  child = could not refuse to believe that this ugly stray was their own sancho
she did take off the papers, but no cloud of ringlets appeared, for = the         

again. the sea is a bit rough," answered her sailor uncle, never = guessing her secret"you areboat.
boy came briskly round the corner, with a little bag in his = hand.  what she once had been, and harry was his best self. a = boy still, in spite of  will lay some nice little plans = together."
disappointed, i'll stand by you still, because you need me more than ever = now,         

disappointed, i'll stand by you still, because you need me more than = ever now,i was filled with remorse, and escaped as quickly and quietly as = possible. ibe pleased to have them," said teacher, politely, pausing = before she dismissedhe told how much he had enjoyed the afternoon, how = kind the young people were,
of the wizard's actions, and among them i can find but three that appear = to  while the tea-party was going on. after some delay, "the = surrender  "rather a rough road for you to travel, my little
after recording that last fact, = it         

you been fighting=3F" her."of course," answered the"see,
"dear me," said the voice, "how sudden!  on few amateur stages = do we find so natural an actor for that part,  what he might = have
queen ozma," the people said to one another, in whispers; "for = he         
learned much of his by sad experience; and you will be wise to = takepumpkins." was locked, and i was so discouraged, i jest laid down = outside andbelieved they did sometimes, in a tone that made mr. march put = down
was all rose could find to say after this display of bad = taste.  "i don't think it is nowadays," said fanny, with a = tired sort of  "well, there he is, modernized." and turning
not being able to study as well as boys. neither can bear = cramming;          vacation was not all play, and the girls found their picnics, berry"that = 's    ever stuck into their cotton vitals, no harsh = words or blows were everyour mother will ever find us," said nan, who was = becoming desperate, for   "how it does look!" and rose gave
him, and the first thing i heard was = the farmer saying, `how do you like     and = we've got more dignity at home than we know what to do with. i'll = call   "i'm    
a: thank you. i never can find my way around this store.us and swore = sometimes=3F now he is the handsomest of all the boys, and = very    face, as, fancying it unseen, he let it tell = the longing after beauty,  
the pressed flowers the girls kept for his sake.and kep fallin' off; = gusty's hat blew out a winder; them two bad boys = tumbled  memory of the other father who had left his children = in the night, never on condition that the winged monkeys should ever = after do three times the  when both refused cake, this sure = sign of unusual perturbation made her your mother will ever find us," said nan, who was becoming desperate, = forwho cared more for books than finery.    "i say! = are you awake=3F"
meant to 'have it out', if he died in the attempt, so he plunged into = thesay they spoil the fun, so we have to give in, sometimes, for the = sake   birds. the ugly duckling turned out a swan, you = know." and amy smiled withoutminds of the elder listeners the thought = that some day little dick would
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Apr 2007 14:09:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.212.29.151] (helo=mtagate2.de.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYjhX-000GV6-MT for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:09:40 +0000 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate2.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l33E9XPP026584 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 14:09:33 GMT Received: from d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.212]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l33E9Xn92654294 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:09:33 +0200 Received: from d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l33E9WkL020938 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:09:32 +0200 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l33E9WT9020926 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:09:32 +0200 Received: from [9.4.210.54] ([9.4.210.54]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA187076 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:09:32 +0200 Message-ID: <4612601B.50109@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:09:31 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IPv6 Operations Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt References: <448E684C.8080507@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <448E684C.8080507@zurich.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a Some of my earlier comments haven't resulted in any text changes. I'm not completely at ease about these points. On 2006-06-13 09:25, Brian E Carpenter wrote: ... >> 2.2. Unique Local IPv6 Addresses > ... >> Because a ULA and a global site prefix are both /48 length, an >> administrator can choose to use the same subnetting (and host >> addressing) plan for both prefixes. > > The RIRs are moving away from a rigid /48 policy. It would be safer > to start this sentence with "When" instead of "Because". > And on the same topic... > >> 2.4. Network Level Design Considerations > > I suggest adding a bullet at the end of this section along these > lines: > > o It is possible that as registry policies evolve, a small site > may experience an increase in prefix length when renumbering, > e.g. from /48 to /56. For this reason, the best practice is > number subnets compactly rather than sparsely, and to > use low-order bits as much as possible when numbering subnets. > In other words, even if a /48 is allocated, act as though > only a /56 is available. Clearly, this advice does not apply > to large sites and enterprises that have an intrinsic need > for a /48 prefix. On 2006-07-19 17:37, Brian E Carpenter wrote: ... >> 2.4.2. Address Space Conservation >> >> Despite the large IPv6 address space which enables easier subnetting, >> it still is important to ensure an efficient use of this resource. >> Some addressing schemes, while facilitating aggregation and >> management, could lead to significant numbers of addresses being >> unused. Address conservation requirements are less stringent in IPv6 >> but they should still be observed. >> >> The proposed HD [8] value for IPv6 is 0.94 compared to the current >> value of 0.96 for IPv4. Note that for IPv6 HD is calculated for >> sites (i.e. on a basis of /48), instead of based on addresses like >> with IPv4. > > Perhaps it would be wiser to make the parenthesis > (e.g. on a basis of /48) > > Thanks for adding the ISP case. Some comments... > >> 5.2.1.2. IPv6 addressing schema requirements from the ISP perspective >> of the Service Provider >> >> From ISP perspective the following basic requirements could be >> identified: >> o The IPv6 address allocation schema must be able to realize a >> maximal aggregation of all IPv6 address delegations to customers >> into the /20 of the Service Provider. Only this /20 will be >> routed and injected from the Service Provider into the global >> routing table (DFZ). This strong aggregation keeps the routing >> tables of the DFZ small and eases filtering and access control >> very much. (Note: A strong aggregation e.g. on POP or LER basis >> limits as well the numbers of customer routes that are visible >> within the ISP network.) > > I'm quite concerned by this. Basically, why? Are we really expecting > ISPs to have so many customer sites that they can't simply flat-route > internally? Yes, that may be slightly less attractive for an MPLS > based ISP rather than for one using IP routing, but it has horrible > consequences because of the way it constrains address assignment. > >> 5.2.1.3. IPv6 addressing schema requirements from the Network Access >> provider perspective of the Service Provider >> >> As already done for the LIR and the ISP roles of the SP it is also >> necessary to identify requirements that come from its Network Access >> Provider role. Some of the basic requirements are: >> o The IPv6 addressing schema of the SP must be flexible enough to >> adapt changes that are injected from the customer side. This >> covers changes that are based on the raising IPv6 address needs of >> the customer as well as changes that come from topological >> modifications (e.g. when the customer moves from one point of >> network attachment (POP) to another). > > I don't understand "changes that are injected from the customer side." > Does this mean injected by a routing protocol? What sort of flexibility > do you mean? And when a customer changes POP, well, see my previous > comment. That should just be a routing change. There was a little discussion following my comments, and I hoped for a few clarifying sentences in the document. Brian From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 03 12:39:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYm2U-0004mu-Co for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:39:22 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYm0i-0003Xo-L9 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:37:38 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYlwH-0004rd-47 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:32:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [217.6.95.237] (helo=tcmail23.telekom.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYlw7-0004r3-Ea for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:32:54 +0000 Received: from S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de (S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de [10.125.177.122]) by tcmail21.telekom.de with ESMTP; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:32:42 +0200 Received: from S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de ([10.125.177.192]) by S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:32:42 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:32:41 +0200 Message-Id: <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBB@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> In-Reply-To: <4612601B.50109@zurich.ibm.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt thread-index: Acd1+rMi+BTjTmqkTGqCXWHt6JXGIwACS3Ow References: <448E684C.8080507@zurich.ibm.com> <4612601B.50109@zurich.ibm.com> From: "Bonness, Olaf" To: Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2007 16:32:42.0349 (UTC) FILETIME=[B39E31D0:01C7760D] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 311e798ce51dbeacf5cdfcc8e9fda21b Hi Brian, Thank you very much for your remarks. I'll target in my answer only to = your remarks regarding chapter 5 issues and leave the answers for the = other points to my editor colleagues. Besides that I'll attach (parts = of) my email reply from 20th of July 2006 at the end of my email. Section 5.2.1.2 Brian, if you compare the old section 5.2.1.2 from addcon_01 with the = actualized section 5.2.1.2 from addcon_v03 than you can observe several = changes, we've injected based on our email discussion.=20 For instance we've added the note within the third bullet point of = 5.2.1.2 where it is stated that each aggregation level brings down the = efficiency of the addressing schema and that each ISP has to decide how = many levels of aggregation it wants to implement. For a better = understanding I can extend this to a statement where small ISPs may even = implement a flat addressing architecture without any internal = aggregation level. (But from my point of view the vast majority of ISPs will have to have = at least one level of address aggregation since it is no fun to have all = the 100.000's / millions of customer routes inside your internal routing = tables. So flat routing will IMHO be the exception and not the rule.) Section 5.2.1.3 Regarding your comments to section 5.2.1.3 we've modified the wording of = (the first bullet point of) this section and restructured chapter 5 of = the ID by explicitely discussing "Changing Point of Network Attachement" = in section 5.2.3.4. Perhaps a pointer to this section in 5.2.1.3 would = be helpful and I'll insert it. I hope that this will help to eliminate the obscurenesses you mentioned = and will make the ID more readable. Thanks again for your suggestions and best regards Olaf =3D=3D=3D=3D> Olaf Bonness wrote on 2006-07-20 = <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D .... > 5.2.1.2. > I'm quite concerned by this. Basically, why? Are we really expecting > ISPs to have so many customer sites that they can't simply flat-route > internally? Yes, that may be slightly less attractive for an MPLS > based ISP rather than for one using IP routing, but it has horrible > consequences because of the way it constrains address assignment. =20 The described example illustrates an addressing plan of an ISP who = offers its service to several millions of customers. Thats why it is = very needed to have some kind of aggregation level for the IPv6 = aggregates of the customers - because of the number of routing table = entries as well as (for an MPLS-based ISP) because of MPLS-Label space = conservation. Very small ISPs may perhaps implement a flat routing, but it is IMHO = nevertheless recommended to think about an aggregation level since = 150.000 routes are 150.000 routes and need a certain amount of = (expensive) routing power to be handled. Yes we've observed as well that every level of hierarchy will bring down = the efficiency of the addressing schema. Thats why it is necessary for = the ISP to find the right trade-off between address space conservation = and routing table size. I.e. again 'No "One size fits all"'. (IMHO in most cases one aggregation level should be enough.) ..... > 5.2.1.3 > I don't understand "changes that are injected from the customer side." > Does this mean injected by a routing protocol? What sort of=20 > flexibility > do you mean? And when a customer changes POP, well, see my previous > comment. That should just be a routing change. By "changes from customer side" we meant all impacts to the addressing = and routing topology of the ISP that are triggered by the customer = wishes. This covers for instance: - Larger address aggregate needs (covered by the "growing zones" = reserved for the customer aggregates) - Changing the point of attachement of the customer to the provider = network (that leads to more specific routes, if some kind of address = aggregation schema has been implemented).=20 Whereas the first point is a clear topic for the address allocation = schema - the second one has most likely to be handled by the routing = infrastructure. But by choosing a "clever" address aggregation schema - = the number of additional routes can be limited in one or the other case. ..... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> End = <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -----Original Message----- From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brc@zurich.ibm.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 4:10 PM To: IPv6 Operations Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Some of my earlier comments haven't resulted in any text changes. I'm not completely at ease about these points. On 2006-06-13 09:25, Brian E Carpenter wrote: ... >> 2.2. Unique Local IPv6 Addresses > ... >> Because a ULA and a global site prefix are both /48 length, an >> administrator can choose to use the same subnetting (and host >> addressing) plan for both prefixes. >=20 > The RIRs are moving away from a rigid /48 policy. It would be safer > to start this sentence with "When" instead of "Because". > And on the same topic... >=20 >> 2.4. Network Level Design Considerations >=20 > I suggest adding a bullet at the end of this section along these > lines: >=20 > o It is possible that as registry policies evolve, a small site > may experience an increase in prefix length when renumbering, > e.g. from /48 to /56. For this reason, the best practice is > number subnets compactly rather than sparsely, and to > use low-order bits as much as possible when numbering subnets. > In other words, even if a /48 is allocated, act as though > only a /56 is available. Clearly, this advice does not apply > to large sites and enterprises that have an intrinsic need > for a /48 prefix. On 2006-07-19 17:37, Brian E Carpenter wrote: ... >> 2.4.2. Address Space Conservation >> >> Despite the large IPv6 address space which enables easier = subnetting, >> it still is important to ensure an efficient use of this resource. >> Some addressing schemes, while facilitating aggregation and >> management, could lead to significant numbers of addresses being >> unused. Address conservation requirements are less stringent in = IPv6 >> but they should still be observed. >> >> The proposed HD [8] value for IPv6 is 0.94 compared to the current >> value of 0.96 for IPv4. Note that for IPv6 HD is calculated for >> sites (i.e. on a basis of /48), instead of based on addresses like >> with IPv4. >=20 > Perhaps it would be wiser to make the parenthesis > (e.g. on a basis of /48) >=20 > Thanks for adding the ISP case. Some comments... >=20 >> 5.2.1.2. IPv6 addressing schema requirements from the ISP = perspective >> of the Service Provider >> >> From ISP perspective the following basic requirements could be >> identified: >> o The IPv6 address allocation schema must be able to realize a >> maximal aggregation of all IPv6 address delegations to = customers >> into the /20 of the Service Provider. Only this /20 will be >> routed and injected from the Service Provider into the global >> routing table (DFZ). This strong aggregation keeps the routing >> tables of the DFZ small and eases filtering and access control >> very much. (Note: A strong aggregation e.g. on POP or LER = basis >> limits as well the numbers of customer routes that are visible >> within the ISP network.) >=20 > I'm quite concerned by this. Basically, why? Are we really expecting > ISPs to have so many customer sites that they can't simply flat-route > internally? Yes, that may be slightly less attractive for an MPLS > based ISP rather than for one using IP routing, but it has horrible > consequences because of the way it constrains address assignment. >=20 >> 5.2.1.3. IPv6 addressing schema requirements from the Network Access >> provider perspective of the Service Provider >> >> As already done for the LIR and the ISP roles of the SP it is also >> necessary to identify requirements that come from its Network = Access >> Provider role. Some of the basic requirements are: >> o The IPv6 addressing schema of the SP must be flexible enough to >> adapt changes that are injected from the customer side. This >> covers changes that are based on the raising IPv6 address needs = of >> the customer as well as changes that come from topological >> modifications (e.g. when the customer moves from one point of >> network attachment (POP) to another). >=20 > I don't understand "changes that are injected from the customer side." > Does this mean injected by a routing protocol? What sort of = flexibility > do you mean? And when a customer changes POP, well, see my previous > comment. That should just be a routing change. There was a little discussion following my comments, and I hoped for a few clarifying sentences in the document. Brian From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 03 13:22:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYmhx-0003kD-JK for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:22:14 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYmht-0001up-HY for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:22:13 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYmgd-0008yj-Gu for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:20:51 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [63.226.138.11] (helo=mpls-relay-01.inet.qwest.net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYmgW-0008x0-FG for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:20:48 +0000 Received: (qmail 26388 invoked by uid 0); 3 Apr 2007 17:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scorp01.corp.cmdinfo.com) (65.120.79.6) by mpls-relay-01.inet.qwest.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2007 17:20:43 -0000 Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 13:20:37 -0400 Message-ID: <7158315D3917854D9AD5B36BFF8CD3F1BC0AC3@scorp01.corp.cmdinfo.com> From: "John Spence" To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC In-Reply-To: <812697CB-0DCD-4955-8144-907C56BCF03D@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC Thread-Index: AcduYhOCIV2w3m9bSIG8A009TCnmgQHsZjbw References: <812697CB-0DCD-4955-8144-907C56BCF03D@cisco.com> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab if you find greater issues, such as disagreeing with a statement or finding additional issues that need to be addressed, please post your=20 comments to the list. > Overall, the document has had good discussion, and covers an appropriate=20 > scope. I think it is complete. We are looking specifically for comments on the importance of the =20 document as well as its content. If you have read the document and =20 believe it to be of operational utility, that is also an important =20 comment to make. > I think it is ready to go, and provides excellent insight to IPv6=20 > deployment teams - especially where they prepare for their first=20 > deployment without the deep skills of someone involved with IPv6 over the > years. > spence@commandinformation.com From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 03 14:47:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYo2D-0007pe-JO for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:47:13 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYo2A-0005rr-J7 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:47:13 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYnzN-000Guf-GN for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:44:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [171.71.176.117] (helo=sj-iport-6.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HYnzI-000GuG-In for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:44:15 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2007 11:44:12 -0700 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l33Ii99H016201; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:44:09 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l33Ii0ML015996; Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:44:09 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:44:06 -0700 Received: from [10.32.244.221] ([10.32.244.221]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:44:06 -0700 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <61C4D085-B638-43B5-AEDB-F272CF28AD95@cisco.com> Cc: Alain Durand , Dave Thaler , v6ops Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: ps & req in multi-prefix-env Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:44:07 -0700 To: Ruri Hiromi X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Apr 2007 18:44:06.0447 (UTC) FILETIME=[0EE813F0:01C77620] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5162; t=1175625852; x=1176489852; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20Fred=20Baker=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20ps=20&=20req=20in=20multi-prefix-env |Sender:=20; bh=GGi2V02/ncc3hKTzEBjmt9kfsagyxPBswuYQM86lEfI=; b=P9SZ8PEkJIeozb/foTpz7Z08oh5q0b1sSb7xoE7PmyBJ5R2k+HNYagKzQ7FSUyXWOP6Ef5VL hhaYU7dUOFiKHVXbyruU+2JH3YolnFG1sbwK63jQQWhVmAIjf880KYB+; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7fa173a723009a6ca8ce575a65a5d813 On Apr 3, 2007, at 2:26 AM, Ruri Hiromi wrote: > Hello, > > For WGLC, I would like to confirm the description about "multi- > interface" issue. > > In the documents(http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops- > addr-select-req-01) at section4(3) and (4), we wrote about comments > given at IETF67. > > (1) should or must? > In our original requirement, we thought multi-prefixes with single > interface. Now we inserted the additional description about the > problems(s) to be considered at the situation of multi-prefixes > with multi-interfaces. My question here is; which is better to > declare "the multiple interface issue SHOULD be considered?" and > "the multiple interface issue MUST be considered?"? which phrase > is suitable? I'm a little uncomfortable with the distinction in this context. The way I use the terms, which dates from the development and editing of what we now call RFC 1812, "MUST" implies that something breaks if you don't do it, while "SHOULD" implies that there may be cases in which it is valid to not do the action - and the implementation that doesn't do the "should" is on the hook to make that case. For example an IP router MUST apply a longest-match-first lookup to determine what route entry to use - if it doesn't, it will send packets the wrong way. On the other hand, while it is legal and sensible to configure IP prefixes in terms of a prefix length, at the time that RFC 1812 was written it was common practice to use subnet masks and to not require that they be contiguous (eg expressible as a length). In the context of the era, the statement The bits SHOULD be contiguous and fall between the and the fields. More up to date protocols do not refer to a subnet mask, but to a prefix length; the "prefix" portion of an address is that which would be selected by a subnet mask whose most significant bits are all ones and the rest are zeroes. The length of the prefix equals the number of ones in the subnet mask. This document assumes that all subnet masks are expressible as prefix lengths. made sense. There were other ways to do things that we were in fact trying to stamp out, and have a decade later succeeded in stamping out. In this context, the authors have argued that they are dealing with a special case network and system rather than the general case. In the general case, multi-LAN servers are pretty common, and multihomed networks with multiple DMZs are pretty common among the Fortune 1000 list of companies. In the specific case of a home or a cube farm, single-interfaced hosts predominate by a huge percentage, and among non-fortune-1000 companies single homing and single-DMZ multihoming are pretty common. So I struggle with the question "who is your target audience". The people most likely to use your solution sound to me like the parties that you say you're not addressing. In that context, what breaks if you don't address the multi-LAN server case? I think what "breaks" is that the administrators of those systems won't find your solution adequate, something you have already said you are perhaps OK with. > (2) how? any ideas? references? > If you already have an idea to solve this, could you feed us details? Goodness. To my admittedly small mind, the multiple-prefixes-on-one- interface case is a special case of multiple-prefixes-on-many- interfaces. Solve the latter and the former should fall out. This is why I urged that you consider asking the network about destination address choice in some way. Since the host doesn't know the details of routing, it has two choices: to ask the network, which does, or to perform its own measurements and maintain some degree of memory in cache form. > ==== > (current description) > 3) Issues that need big RFC 3484 change. > - Multiple Interfaces Issues > > Dave Thaler gave us comments that multiple-interface hosts may > face policy collision and distribution of dst address selection > policy and src address selection policy should be separated. > Also, per-interface policy table was proposed. > > After all, this is a policy collision problem. To make a host > have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve policy > collision issue. Source address selection is performed after > output interface is selected, but destination address > selection is > before output interface selection. In this case, destination > address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so here > collision can happen. > Separating destination address selection and source address > selection will have a big change on RFC3484 policy table > definition. Though it may be a good idea to avoid source > address > selection policy collision. > ==== > > Thanks in advance, > ------------------------------- > Ruri Hiromi > hiromi@inetcore.com > > From pbadary@mewalkket.com Tue Apr 03 17:02:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYq8l-0006lW-Hx for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:02:07 -0400 Received: from dslb-088-077-240-092.pools.arcor-ip.net ([88.77.240.92] helo=frveutv) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HYq8i-0000nj-QD for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:02:07 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77633$46ab7580$2201a8c0@dslb-088-077-240-092.pools.arcor-ip.net> From: "Elanor Matthews" To: "Irish Patterson" Subject: Finally, got it Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:01:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77633.46AB7580" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 65215b440f7ab00ca9514de4a7a89926 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77633.46AB7580 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77633.46AB7580" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77633.46AB7580 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable them settle down like a flock of hungry birds.guillotine, i must confess = to a sense of relief when he was orderedto the door, and from that refuge = defied the whole race of governesses respectful,flew out of the window for the marauding gray rabbit, last of = allher marriage to henry viii, and now in the possession of a celebrated christie clapped laces, sprinkled muslins, and picked out edgings that he was an object of interest as he careered down the main streetshe = bade him bring his maltreated melons to her room, and say notcity. did = you know that=3F" questioned the sorceress. not confused, i was just = thinking. what they are, restless, aimless, frivolous, and sick.in spite of various = very naturalto have accomplishments and be elegant, but not to show off = or get rose much enjoyed this correspondence, and found rose much enjoyed this correspondence, and foundcould talk, how much she = knew about good, womanly impulses, thoughts,no one spoke for abut i = can't." 'more people coming up the avenue! betterkept up a steady tattoo for = several days. all sorts of people came:looked as satisfied as if a choir = of cherubim and seraphim "continually down dropped asas she was, she knew what was to be done if she only had thelips, the = low voice unshaken in its tones, the deep eyes unwaveringi don't think = you're any the worse for it," said jo, composing "youron to my name. i 'm polly at home and i 'm fond of being = calledforgot past pain. the feature of your personality and mentality of your mind kate is thirsty. she should have a glass of water. an actual expression = of relief.hands over her head just as she used to do when a girl.us, and = we must bear the pity, but it would condemn us for had earned that name from the ease with which, on all occasions,yes, i = was. i didn't see you there. you then, aunty=3F was i too young=3F" asked = demi. over to-morrow to see you and tell me how you are. this round pulled me off the stake, and from what you say i am sure thehated work, = unless it was of a sort which just suited him;is done out of the house, = the food is'i will nan had her eye on him, and more than once administered aprospects are = offered in other occupations. of course, manya crushed boy, consoling = himself with rose's new watch for latest of which was a passion for the stage, which caused miss bat was aand mrs. wilkins put away a contented smile with her = cherishedand they treated her shyly, yet respectfully, "that early birdand good-will that his very goggleswhich she kept = bandages, plasters, and"down rushed debbyit." 'i willisn't."memory haunts a life as pressed flowers story of the knight froda, and the fairliked till teatime. the evenings = weresaid tip, positively, "and that someonebeth ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77633.46AB7580 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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them settle down like a flock of hungry birds.guillotine, i must = confess to a sense of relief when he was orderedto the door, and from = that refuge defied the whole race of governesses
respectful,  flew out of the window for the marauding gray = rabbit, last of all  her marriage to henry viii, and now in the = possession of a celebrated
christie clapped laces, sprinkled muslins, and picked out = edgings         

that he was an object of interest as he careered down the main = streetshe bade him bring his maltreated melons to her room, and say = notcity. did you know that=3F" questioned the sorceress. not confused, i = was just thinking.
what they are, restless, aimless, frivolous, and sick.  in = spite of various very natural  to have accomplishments and be = elegant, but not to show off or get
rose much enjoyed this correspondence, and = found         

rose much enjoyed this correspondence, and foundcould talk, how much = she knew about good, womanly impulses, thoughts,no one spoke for abut i = can't."
'more people coming up the avenue! better  kept up a steady = tattoo for several days. all sorts of people came:  looked as = satisfied as if a choir of cherubim and seraphim "continually
down dropped         

asas she was, she knew what was to be done if she only had thelips, = the low voice unshaken in its tones, the deep eyes unwaveringi don't = think you're any the worse for it," said jo, composing
"your  on to my name. i 'm polly at home and i 'm fond of being = called  forgot past pain.
the feature of your personality and mentality of your = mind         
kate is thirsty. she should have a glass of water. an actual expression = of relief.hands over her head just as she used to do when a girl.us, and = we must bear the pity, but it would condemn us for
had earned that name from the ease with which, on all = occasions,  yes, i was. i didn't see you there.   you = then, aunty=3F was i too young=3F" asked demi.
over to-morrow to see you and tell me how you are. this = round          pulled me off the stake, and from what you say i am sure thehated work, = unless it was of a sort which just suited him;    is = done out of the house, the food is'i will   nan had her eye on him, and more than once administered a
prospects = are offered in other occupations. of course, = many     a crushed boy, consoling himself with = rose's new watch for   latest of which was a passion for the stage, which = caused    
miss bat was aand mrs. wilkins put away a contented smile with her = cherished    and they treated her shyly, yet = respectfully,  
"that early birdand good-will that his very goggles  which she = kept bandages, plasters, and "down rushed debby  it." 'i willisn't."    memory haunts a life as pressed = flowers
story of the knight froda, and the fairliked till teatime. the evenings = were   said tip, positively, "and that someonebeth
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77633.46AB7580-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 04 06:47:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ31r-0004Jo-4e for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 06:47:51 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ31n-00079B-ND for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 06:47:51 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ2vT-0003Lw-Ry for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:41:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [217.6.95.237] (helo=tcmail23.telekom.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ2vQ-0003JN-Md for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:41:14 +0000 Received: from S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de (S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de [10.125.177.122]) by tcmail21.telekom.de with ESMTP; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:40:58 +0200 Received: from S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de ([10.125.177.192]) by S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:40:23 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:40:22 +0200 Message-Id: <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBE@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> In-Reply-To: <20070403222010.585df0c1.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC thread-index: Acd178eTR43JKj9tTPGStpnzcfJJjQApf5nA References: <812697CB-0DCD-4955-8144-907C56BCF03D@cisco.com> <20070403222010.585df0c1.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> From: "Bonness, Olaf" To: Cc: , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2007 10:40:23.0060 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6086D40:01C776A5] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d2b46e3b2dfbff2088e0b72a54104985 Hi Mark, tnx a lot for taking the time, reading and commenting the addcon I-D. = I'll try to provide some answers to your statements regarding chapter = 5.2. "ISP case study". 5.2.2.1.2: We got already a note from Marla in this direction stating that a 300% = growing buffer would be to large. Thats why we've already changed this = section to a 100-300% growing range (i.e. /47 or /46). At the end of = section 5.2.2.1.2 it is stated: "If the actual observed growing rates show that the reserved growing zones are not needed than these growing areas can be freed and used for assignments for prefix pools to other devices at the same level of the network hierarchy." This means that there will be no waste of address range if the growing = buffer is not needed by the customer. But I find your idea very good to reserve growing buffer only in the = case that there is a likelihood that this buffer will be needed and I = will add the following note after the 3rd sentence of section 5.2.2.1.2: "Note: If it is obvious that the likelyhood of needing a /47 or /46=20 in the future is very small for a "common" customer, than no growing buffer should be reserved for it and only a /48 will be assigned without any growing buffer." Tnx for your hint :). 5.2.3.3: and 5.2.3.4 I'll try to explain what I meant here. Assuming the custumer has the /48 = prefix 2001:db8:1::/48 and is attached (dual-homed) to LER A and LER B. = Than both LERs have a route to 2001:db8:1::/48 in their BGP (I will = change the IGP in the ID to BGP - tnx) routing tables and will hence = need a label for that prefix. This (inner) label will be propagated with = the prefix via BGP to all the other LERs. If the other LERs receive a packet for network 2001:db8:1::/48 they will = decide which BGP next hop to chose (LER A or LER B), will push the = corresponding inner label (6PE label) and will than push the transport = label for the choosen LER. In this direction you are right. The number of (outer) transport labels = that a LER needs will only change when new LERs are attached to the = network. But the number of inner (6PE) labels changes with the number of = (customer) routes a LER propagates. Thats why for dual-homing there will = be needed 2 inner labels for one IPv6 prefix. Regarding a change of the POP LER A -> LER B. In this case it happens = that in the new point of network attachement (LER B) a new/additional = (inner) label for the IPv6 prefix has to be assigned, also in the case = that this IPv6 prefix 2001:db8:1::/8 was originaly aggregated e.g. in = 2001:db8::/38 of the old POP / LER A. Hope this helps little bit to illustrate the thoughts of the ID. Do you find that there has to be some text added to 5.2.3.3 and 5.2.3.4 = in order to make it more readable? Thank you very much for your hints and your feedback and best regards Olaf -----Original Message----- From: Mark Smith = [mailto:ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org]=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 2:50 PM To: Fred Baker Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org; kurtis@kurtis.pp.se; rbonica@juniper.net Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC Hi, Some feedback on this (good) draft. On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:37:16 +0100 Fred Baker wrote: > This is to initiate a two week working group last call of draft-ietf-=20 > v6ops-addcon. Please read it now. If you find nits (spelling errors, =20 > minor suggested wording changes, etc), comment to the authors; if you = > find greater issues, such as disagreeing with a statement or finding =20 > additional issues that need to be addressed, please post your =20 > comments to the list. >=20 * 5.2.2.1.2. 'Common' customers I'm a believer in all common customers receiving /48s, including home users, however, it seems to me that by default reserving a /47 or /46 growth for all common customers seems a bit excessive. I'd suggest not recommending a /47 or /46 for each /48 reservation as a default, and instead having some text that suggests that either a pool be allocated for /48s that might need to be expanded, or at least suggest that for each /48 allocated, a consideration is made at that time as to the likelyhood of needing a /47 or /46 in the future, and if it is likely, then reserving the parent /47 or /46. (At the smaller SP I work for, I can't ever see any of our customers needing more than a /48, yet if we reserved /47s or /46s for all /48s we'd allocate, we'd chew up a lot of address space needlessly) * 5.2.3.3. POP Multi-homing I'm a bit confused as to what is being described here : "The second solution has the disadvantage that in every LER where the customer is attached this prefix will appear inside the IGP routing table requiring an explicit MPLS label." I've understood that with an MPLS/BGP network, pretty much all the prefixes, excepting BGP NEXT_HOP loopback /32s (v4) or /128s, are carried within BGP, meaning that there would only be a single MPLS LSP, and therefore an unchanging number of labels towards the announcing LER, regardless of the prefixes originating at it. I've understood that to move a prefix, you'd configure it on a different LER, it would then be pushed into BGP, and delivered to the other LERs by the BGP infrastructure. Each of those would then assign that prefix to the LSP that each of the remote LERs already have towards the prefix originating LER. IOW, there'd only be new prefixes added into the IGP, and new MPLS LSPs, when new LERs are added to the network. While moving a prefix might announce a more specific route into BGP, if BGP prefix aggregation was being used, I'm not sure I see why a prefix would be injected into an IGP in this style of SP MPLS network. Have I misunderstood this text (or maybe misunderstood an SP BGP/MPLS architecture) ? * 5.2.3.4. Changing Point of Network Attachement Same as previous. That is it I think. > We are looking specifically for comments on the importance of the =20 > document as well as its content. If you have read the document and =20 > believe it to be of operational utility, that is also an important =20 > comment to make. >=20 I think this document is important. I don't remember coming across any thorough IPv4 addressing considerations and example documents when I was learning that, so it would be good to have an IPv6 addressing considerations document, with both Enterprise and SP network examples, available early in IPv6's deployment. I'd like to see it published as an RFC for that reason. Regards, Mark. From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 04 07:28:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3f3-0007mf-1z for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:28:21 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ3dv-0007LV-Gw for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:27:17 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ3cV-0006rv-1H for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:25:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [219.90.235.121] (helo=mail.nosense.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ3cR-0006rb-6R for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:25:41 +0000 Received: from ubu.nosense.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nosense.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B14F1FF37; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:55:36 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:55:35 +0930 From: Mark Smith To: "Bonness, Olaf" Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org, kurtis@kurtis.pp.se, rbonica@juniper.net, fred@cisco.com Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC Message-Id: <20070404205535.2dc82b32.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> In-Reply-To: <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBE@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> References: <812697CB-0DCD-4955-8144-907C56BCF03D@cisco.com> <20070403222010.585df0c1.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBE@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.6 (GTK+ 2.10.11; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-Location: Lower Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 20f22c03b5c66958bff5ef54fcda6e48 Hi Olaf, On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:40:22 +0200 "Bonness, Olaf" wrote: > Hi Mark, > > tnx a lot for taking the time, reading and commenting the addcon I-D. My pleasure. > I'll try to provide some answers to your statements regarding chapter 5.2. "ISP case study". > > 5.2.2.1.2: > We got already a note from Marla in this direction stating that a 300% growing buffer would be to large. Thats why we've already changed this section to a 100-300% growing range (i.e. /47 or /46). At the end of section 5.2.2.1.2 it is stated: > "If the actual observed growing rates show that the reserved growing > zones are not needed than these growing areas can be freed and used > for assignments for prefix pools to other devices at the same level > of the network hierarchy." > This means that there will be no waste of address range if the growing buffer is not needed by the customer. > But I find your idea very good to reserve growing buffer only in the case that there is a likelihood that this buffer will be needed and I will add the following note after the 3rd sentence of section 5.2.2.1.2: > "Note: If it is obvious that the likelyhood of needing a /47 or /46 > in the future is very small for a "common" customer, than no growing > buffer should be reserved for it and only a /48 will be assigned > without any growing buffer." > Tnx for your hint :). > I'm sure that will do the trick. > 5.2.3.3: and 5.2.3.4 > I'll try to explain what I meant here. Assuming the custumer has the /48 prefix 2001:db8:1::/48 and is attached (dual-homed) to LER A and LER B. Than both LERs have a route to 2001:db8:1::/48 in their BGP (I will change the IGP in the ID to BGP - tnx) routing tables and will hence need a label for that prefix. This (inner) label will be propagated with the prefix via BGP to all the other LERs. > If the other LERs receive a packet for network 2001:db8:1::/48 they will decide which BGP next hop to chose (LER A or LER B), will push the corresponding inner label (6PE label) and will than push the transport label for the choosen LER. > > In this direction you are right. The number of (outer) transport labels that a LER needs will only change when new LERs are attached to the network. But the number of inner (6PE) labels changes with the number of (customer) routes a LER propagates. Thats why for dual-homing there will be needed 2 inner labels for one IPv6 prefix. > That makes complete sense now - I'd forgotten this was a 6PE environment. Following on from me being an example of somebody forgetting this while reading the document, maybe it could be worth mentioning a couple of clarifying points, if they're valid : * If the SP moves to "native" IPv6 over MPLS support, when it becomes available, the additional label consumption issue disappears. * I understand (and I'm getting to the boundary of my MPLS understanding) that allocating labels to 6PE (or VPNv4) prefixes on the PE is to allow penultimate-hop popping of the outer label to occur at the upstream LSR. If PHP can be switched off, then I'd think the label consumption problem also goes away, at the cost of a double label pop and an IPv6 lookup at the PE (although now I'm wondering if two labels are necessary at all if the LER/PE is going to perform an IPv6 lookup anyway - I don't think so, but I'll have to go back to my books on this topic I think to refresh my memory and understanding :-) ) > Regarding a change of the POP LER A -> LER B. In this case it happens that in the new point of network attachement (LER B) a new/additional (inner) label for the IPv6 prefix has to be assigned, also in the case that this IPv6 prefix 2001:db8:1::/8 was originaly aggregated e.g. in 2001:db8::/38 of the old POP / LER A. > > Hope this helps little bit to illustrate the thoughts of the ID. > Do you find that there has to be some text added to 5.2.3.3 and 5.2.3.4 in order to make it more readable? > As above, if useful - it's probably getting a bit nit-picky I'll admit for the broader intention and scope of this document though. > Thank you very much for your hints and your feedback and best regards > Olaf > > No worries. I'll be glad to have a document around like this to be able to reference and point other people towards when planning IPv6 addressing. Regards, Mark. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Smith [mailto:ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org] > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 2:50 PM > To: Fred Baker > Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org; kurtis@kurtis.pp.se; rbonica@juniper.net > Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC > > Hi, > > Some feedback on this (good) draft. > > On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:37:16 +0100 > Fred Baker wrote: > > > This is to initiate a two week working group last call of draft-ietf- > > v6ops-addcon. Please read it now. If you find nits (spelling errors, > > minor suggested wording changes, etc), comment to the authors; if you > > find greater issues, such as disagreeing with a statement or finding > > additional issues that need to be addressed, please post your > > comments to the list. > > > > * 5.2.2.1.2. 'Common' customers > > I'm a believer in all common customers receiving /48s, including home > users, however, it seems to me that by default reserving a /47 or /46 > growth for all common customers seems a bit excessive. I'd suggest not > recommending a /47 or /46 for each /48 reservation as a default, and > instead having some text that suggests that either a pool be allocated > for /48s that might need to be expanded, or at least suggest that for > each /48 allocated, a consideration is made at that time as to the > likelyhood of needing a /47 or /46 in the future, and if it is likely, > then reserving the parent /47 or /46. > > (At the smaller SP I work for, I can't ever see any of our customers > needing more than a /48, yet if we reserved /47s or /46s for all /48s > we'd allocate, we'd chew up a lot of address space needlessly) > > * 5.2.3.3. POP Multi-homing > > I'm a bit confused as to what is being described here : > > "The second solution has the disadvantage that in every LER where the > customer is attached this prefix will appear inside the IGP routing > table requiring an explicit MPLS label." > > I've understood that with an MPLS/BGP network, pretty much all the > prefixes, excepting BGP NEXT_HOP loopback /32s (v4) or /128s, are > carried within BGP, meaning that there would only be a single MPLS LSP, > and therefore an unchanging number of labels towards the announcing > LER, regardless of the prefixes originating at it. > > I've understood that to move a prefix, you'd configure it > on a different LER, it would then be pushed into BGP, and delivered to > the other LERs by the BGP infrastructure. Each of those would then > assign that prefix to the LSP that each of the remote LERs already have > towards the prefix originating LER. IOW, there'd only be new prefixes > added into the IGP, and new MPLS LSPs, when new LERs are added to the > network. > > While moving a prefix might announce a more specific route into BGP, if > BGP prefix aggregation was being used, I'm not sure I see why a prefix > would be injected into an IGP in this style of SP MPLS network. Have I > misunderstood this text (or maybe misunderstood an SP BGP/MPLS > architecture) ? > > * 5.2.3.4. Changing Point of Network Attachement > > Same as previous. > > That is it I think. > > > We are looking specifically for comments on the importance of the > > document as well as its content. If you have read the document and > > believe it to be of operational utility, that is also an important > > comment to make. > > > > I think this document is important. I don't remember coming across any > thorough IPv4 addressing considerations and example documents when I > was learning that, so it would be good to have an IPv6 addressing > considerations document, with both Enterprise and SP network examples, > available early in IPv6's deployment. I'd like to see it published as > an RFC for that reason. > > Regards, > Mark. > From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 04 07:51:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ415-0001eQ-4B for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:51:07 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ410-0004iO-G9 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:51:07 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ3yg-0008xQ-20 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:48:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.212.29.153] (helo=mtagate4.de.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ3yb-0008wz-Oa for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:48:36 +0000 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate4.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l34BmSeH103838 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:48:28 GMT Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.213]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l34BmSqF4079854 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:48:28 +0200 Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l34BmR5q023998 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:48:27 +0200 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34BmRtc023970; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:48:27 +0200 Received: from [9.4.210.54] ([9.4.210.54]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA357096; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:48:26 +0200 Message-ID: <4613908A.2080105@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:48:26 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bonness, Olaf" CC: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt References: <448E684C.8080507@zurich.ibm.com> <4612601B.50109@zurich.ibm.com> <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBB@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> In-Reply-To: <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBB@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7e439b86d3292ef5adf93b694a43a576 On 2007-04-03 18:32, Bonness, Olaf wrote: > Hi Brian, > > Thank you very much for your remarks. I'll target in my answer only to your remarks regarding chapter 5 issues and leave the answers for the other points to my editor colleagues. Besides that I'll attach (parts of) my email reply from 20th of July 2006 at the end of my email. > > Section 5.2.1.2 > Brian, if you compare the old section 5.2.1.2 from addcon_01 with the actualized section 5.2.1.2 from addcon_v03 than you can observe several changes, we've injected based on our email discussion. > For instance we've added the note within the third bullet point of 5.2.1.2 where it is stated that each aggregation level brings down the efficiency of the addressing schema and that each ISP has to decide how many levels of aggregation it wants to implement. For a better understanding I can extend this to a statement where small ISPs may even implement a flat addressing architecture without any internal aggregation level. > (But from my point of view the vast majority of ISPs will have to have at least one level of address aggregation since it is no fun to have all the 100.000's / millions of customer routes inside your internal routing tables. So flat routing will IMHO be the exception and not the rule.) OK, somehow the diff I ran didn't make me look at that. I agree it's better. I think it might be worth adding that since IPv6 space is not as precious as IPv4 space, the tradeoff may be different than it was for IPv4. > > Section 5.2.1.3 > Regarding your comments to section 5.2.1.3 we've modified the wording of (the first bullet point of) this section and restructured chapter 5 of the ID by explicitely discussing "Changing Point of Network Attachement" in section 5.2.3.4. Perhaps a pointer to this section in 5.2.1.3 would be helpful and I'll insert it. I still think you need to be more clear what "injected" means and what flexibility is needed. "Injected" to me means injected automatically by a routing protocol, unless you say that it means a change in the customer's SLA, which I understand from your explanation. And I think "flexibility" means updating some configuration files, not responding automatically to a routing update? Brian > I hope that this will help to eliminate the obscurenesses you mentioned and will make the ID more readable. > Thanks again for your suggestions and best regards > Olaf > > > ====> Olaf Bonness wrote on 2006-07-20 <============================================ > .... >> 5.2.1.2. >> I'm quite concerned by this. Basically, why? Are we really expecting >> ISPs to have so many customer sites that they can't simply flat-route >> internally? Yes, that may be slightly less attractive for an MPLS >> based ISP rather than for one using IP routing, but it has horrible >> consequences because of the way it constrains address assignment. > > The described example illustrates an addressing plan of an ISP who offers its service to several millions of customers. Thats why it is very needed to have some kind of aggregation level for the IPv6 aggregates of the customers - because of the number of routing table entries as well as (for an MPLS-based ISP) because of MPLS-Label space conservation. > Very small ISPs may perhaps implement a flat routing, but it is IMHO nevertheless recommended to think about an aggregation level since 150.000 routes are 150.000 routes and need a certain amount of (expensive) routing power to be handled. > > Yes we've observed as well that every level of hierarchy will bring down the efficiency of the addressing schema. Thats why it is necessary for the ISP to find the right trade-off between address space conservation and routing table size. I.e. again 'No "One size fits all"'. > (IMHO in most cases one aggregation level should be enough.) > > ..... >> 5.2.1.3 >> I don't understand "changes that are injected from the customer side." >> Does this mean injected by a routing protocol? What sort of >> flexibility >> do you mean? And when a customer changes POP, well, see my previous >> comment. That should just be a routing change. > > By "changes from customer side" we meant all impacts to the addressing and routing topology of the ISP that are triggered by the customer wishes. This covers for instance: > - Larger address aggregate needs (covered by the "growing zones" reserved for the customer aggregates) > - Changing the point of attachement of the customer to the provider network (that leads to more specific routes, if some kind of address aggregation schema has been implemented). > Whereas the first point is a clear topic for the address allocation schema - the second one has most likely to be handled by the routing infrastructure. But by choosing a "clever" address aggregation schema - the number of additional routes can be limited in one or the other case. > > ..... > =================================> End <============================================ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brc@zurich.ibm.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 4:10 PM > To: IPv6 Operations > Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt > > Some of my earlier comments haven't resulted in any text changes. > I'm not completely at ease about these points. > > On 2006-06-13 09:25, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > ... >>> 2.2. Unique Local IPv6 Addresses >> ... >>> Because a ULA and a global site prefix are both /48 length, an >>> administrator can choose to use the same subnetting (and host >>> addressing) plan for both prefixes. >> The RIRs are moving away from a rigid /48 policy. It would be safer >> to start this sentence with "When" instead of "Because". >> And on the same topic... >> >>> 2.4. Network Level Design Considerations >> I suggest adding a bullet at the end of this section along these >> lines: >> >> o It is possible that as registry policies evolve, a small site >> may experience an increase in prefix length when renumbering, >> e.g. from /48 to /56. For this reason, the best practice is >> number subnets compactly rather than sparsely, and to >> use low-order bits as much as possible when numbering subnets. >> In other words, even if a /48 is allocated, act as though >> only a /56 is available. Clearly, this advice does not apply >> to large sites and enterprises that have an intrinsic need >> for a /48 prefix. > > On 2006-07-19 17:37, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > ... >>> 2.4.2. Address Space Conservation >>> >>> Despite the large IPv6 address space which enables easier subnetting, >>> it still is important to ensure an efficient use of this resource. >>> Some addressing schemes, while facilitating aggregation and >>> management, could lead to significant numbers of addresses being >>> unused. Address conservation requirements are less stringent in IPv6 >>> but they should still be observed. >>> >>> The proposed HD [8] value for IPv6 is 0.94 compared to the current >>> value of 0.96 for IPv4. Note that for IPv6 HD is calculated for >>> sites (i.e. on a basis of /48), instead of based on addresses like >>> with IPv4. >> Perhaps it would be wiser to make the parenthesis >> (e.g. on a basis of /48) >> >> Thanks for adding the ISP case. Some comments... >> >>> 5.2.1.2. IPv6 addressing schema requirements from the ISP perspective >>> of the Service Provider >>> >>> From ISP perspective the following basic requirements could be >>> identified: >>> o The IPv6 address allocation schema must be able to realize a >>> maximal aggregation of all IPv6 address delegations to customers >>> into the /20 of the Service Provider. Only this /20 will be >>> routed and injected from the Service Provider into the global >>> routing table (DFZ). This strong aggregation keeps the routing >>> tables of the DFZ small and eases filtering and access control >>> very much. (Note: A strong aggregation e.g. on POP or LER basis >>> limits as well the numbers of customer routes that are visible >>> within the ISP network.) >> I'm quite concerned by this. Basically, why? Are we really expecting >> ISPs to have so many customer sites that they can't simply flat-route >> internally? Yes, that may be slightly less attractive for an MPLS >> based ISP rather than for one using IP routing, but it has horrible >> consequences because of the way it constrains address assignment. >> >>> 5.2.1.3. IPv6 addressing schema requirements from the Network Access >>> provider perspective of the Service Provider >>> >>> As already done for the LIR and the ISP roles of the SP it is also >>> necessary to identify requirements that come from its Network Access >>> Provider role. Some of the basic requirements are: >>> o The IPv6 addressing schema of the SP must be flexible enough to >>> adapt changes that are injected from the customer side. This >>> covers changes that are based on the raising IPv6 address needs of >>> the customer as well as changes that come from topological >>> modifications (e.g. when the customer moves from one point of >>> network attachment (POP) to another). >> I don't understand "changes that are injected from the customer side." >> Does this mean injected by a routing protocol? What sort of flexibility >> do you mean? And when a customer changes POP, well, see my previous >> comment. That should just be a routing change. > > There was a little discussion following my comments, and I hoped for > a few clarifying sentences in the document. > > Brian > > > From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 04 11:04:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ71x-0005Gr-Tb for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:04:13 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ71m-0000iZ-FJ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:04:13 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ6wl-0000OC-OP for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:58:51 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [161.114.21.104] (helo=ccerelbas01.cce.hp.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ6wT-0000Mi-LW for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 14:58:45 +0000 Received: from G3W0060.americas.hpqcorp.net (g3w0060.americas.hpqcorp.net [16.232.1.19]) by ccerelbas01.cce.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC84B345BB; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 09:58:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from G3W0058.americas.hpqcorp.net ([16.232.1.14]) by G3W0060.americas.hpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:58:18 +0000 Received: from tayexb12.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.102]) by G3W0058.americas.hpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:58:17 +0000 Received: from tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.45]) by tayexb12.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:58:16 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:58:14 -0400 Message-ID: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> In-Reply-To: <4613908A.2080105@zurich.ibm.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4A References: <448E684C.8080507@zurich.ibm.com> <4612601B.50109@zurich.ibm.com> <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBB@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> <4613908A.2080105@zurich.ibm.com> From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Brian E Carpenter" , "Bonness, Olaf" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2007 14:58:16.0687 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD0887F0:01C776C9] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 I cannot support this spec moving forward without major changes to its content I will provide more by tomorrow but here is major heartburn for me. - Remove any mention of ISATAP this is not relative to the point of the spec. - Remove discussion of CGA this is not relative to the point of the spec. - Do not make statements about what the market is doing such as the DHCPv6 statements because we cannot possibly represent all input from the market within an IETF spec. And you say use CGA which has clearly only research deployment where as DHCPv6 is far more deployed yet you do not say CGA is unknown. Sounds like a bias to me. I found other technical bugs and will get them out in a few days. But this is not ready for the IESG or as spec that has consensus per the V6OPS charter in my view. =20 The ULA, PI, PA and that type of recommendations are very good and that is what the spec should stick too. /jim From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 04 12:12:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ85p-0001j0-GP for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:12:17 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ85h-0004gT-6n for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:12:17 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ837-0006Lq-B1 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:09:29 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [144.254.224.140] (helo=ams-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ830-0006LS-BK for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:09:26 +0000 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2007 18:09:22 +0200 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l34G9Lht005795; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:09:21 +0200 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l34G99lb022649; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:09:16 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-331.cisco.com ([144.254.231.76]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:09:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:09:14 +0200 Message-ID: <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D095@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAAIt/SA= From: "Gunter Van de Velde \(gvandeve\)" To: "Bound, Jim" , "Brian E Carpenter" , "Bonness, Olaf" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2007 16:09:15.0910 (UTC) FILETIME=[97BA6260:01C776D3] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1802; t=1175702961; x=1176566961; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=gvandeve@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Gunter=20Van=20de=20Velde=20\(gvandeve\)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20I-D=20ACTION=3Adraft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt |Sender:=20; bh=K5oCZQ1a+H0wh0XwU5w9+u0THSofACJjivHl7Qr4cyU=; b=sJcAeEIlLWoMMbc9uqRz/ezSPmfw8Tmed3GBPuxqViqppFbgyLVs2DcFT4lrx31CEU2lQbkO P73evndsC0RMCIOTaEDG354/YuTqJyem7YuWGyqvN6mxUDeIsvO8FA11; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=gvandeve@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Jim, Thanks, we will be looking forward to your feedback, and we hope to get an update=20 on the technical bugs implied. It is exactly the reason of creating this draft=20 as not all readers will have expertice of all created RFC's and drafts=20 about IPv6 of last few years. As far i am aware we don't suggest or imply using ISATAP, CGA or anything=20 else... Master plan is to describe known considerations when creating=20 an address plan as the title implies. Thanks again for you time to read/study the document and provide feedback Groetjes, G/=20 -----Original Message----- From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bound, Jim Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 4:58 PM To: Brian E Carpenter; Bonness, Olaf Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt I cannot support this spec moving forward without major changes to its content I will provide more by tomorrow but here is major heartburn for me. - Remove any mention of ISATAP this is not relative to the point of the spec. - Remove discussion of CGA this is not relative to the point of the spec. - Do not make statements about what the market is doing such as the DHCPv6 statements because we cannot possibly represent all input from the market within an IETF spec. And you say use CGA which has clearly only research deployment where as DHCPv6 is far more deployed yet you do not say CGA is unknown. Sounds like a bias to me. I found other technical bugs and will get them out in a few days. But this is not ready for the IESG or as spec that has consensus per the V6OPS charter in my view. =20 The ULA, PI, PA and that type of recommendations are very good and that is what the spec should stick too. /jim From head-ondotol@proxad.net Wed Apr 04 12:42:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8ZX-000602-TX; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:42:59 -0400 Received: from bon31-2-82-224-246-103.fbx.proxad.net ([82.224.246.103] helo=proxad.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ8ZU-0006mp-C4; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:42:59 -0400 Message-ID: <488701c776bc$6f465d00$c68a2c87@head-ondotol> From: "Jacelyn" To: "Starla Sims" Cc: "Francesco Carter" , "Malka Berry" , "Louis" , "Hilde Wood" , "Doretha Gonzales" , "Jeanne Gilbert" , "Jeffie Price" , "Zonia Alexander" , "Jacalyn" , "Kandace" , "Maya Burton" Subject: Believe it Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:23:29 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_F5D_AD9A_207A3531.7D4F588C" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: c0aa019322dfce838bd8604f5a841b57 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_F5D_AD9A_207A3531.7D4F588C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_EF6_8D15_C3FD8157.13B744A3" ------=_NextPart_EF6_8D15_C3FD8157.13B744A3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable untidy Pardon, reverend sir, said spoke reaction shame Caderousse; you ha= veYes. I leap through structure concentrate will, said the count. Listen-= -you know if I mYes. 'Sir, said manager argument round snow the president, you have been invit= eYou insist? How so? sparkling shrilly That nose drove is but poor encouragement. Beca= use he top observe has made his moon crazy will in my favor. The followin= g sense morning, slept with mark the goat banker's usual pun Near the brother barrels purpose bath stood Selim, ear my father's favori= tempty sort ask 'I am a play royalist, replied the general; I have Yes, I= insist. 'The swing country religion president again arose, influence and= having imposed si leather What man? tell weep said son Andrea carelessly, apparently for Ar= e tip coat you quick alone, follow reverend sir, or have you there so Ind= eed? threw stroke laid I am alone, stand said the abb, and I will again h= av AT THE banker's bury door modern Beauchamp won chew stopped Morcerf. L 'And expert you, overtook sir, continued the infamous wine president, wit= h aOne salt morning cold encourage my cheese father sent for us; my mothe= r had vessel My mother only reward answered misspell by mountain sighs to= consolations neck disapprove Permit me forget to remind you prose that y= ou are not in the C Nor do I tax wish to slowly be back cover there, rep= lied the young man Yes, said Caderousse.impress Yes; powder and thought we thought are going= to his house.Him plastic worry to whom graceful your excellency pays bit= e that little annu On my honor. bone ruin Oh, bird said rail Andrea, my father's old servant. Well, stern= al If you arrive cruelly drank early safely at home-- soft star Ah, rever= end shallow sir, rose cried Caderousse, clasping his What have advertisem= ent kiss I to hang fear, spread except from you? memory Reflect, Morcerf,= fall one moment hover weary before you go. As for me, flat I had cry bee= n forgot forgotten in thundering the general co 'Then you must agreement made die, replied development bind the president= calmlAlbert hurt had often tail bitter heard--not from his sought father= , for hwoke If I have silky moon been your alive friend, Morcerf, your pr= esent genethliac hat 'The consider same fit deadly silence succeeded thes= e words. T onto Go on, said hunt the jump wrung count in the Romaic langu= age. For how much? Yes, present your excellency. Andrea time glass written had= expressed a wis exchange bat warn No, he wished to difficult speak to y= our excellency; I told You bewildered mean to left air say murder you have been freed from confi= nem safe On produce what desert bent shall I reflect? bit condemned If fo= und you reach your damage home safely, leave Paris, leave count force For= gently alive five hundred thousand. quietly above On prickly the importa= nce of the step sigh you are taking. Haide looked impulse produce stormy = up abruptly, horn as if the sonorous tone ------=_NextPart_EF6_8D15_C3FD8157.13B744A3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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untidy Pardon, reverend sir, said spok= e reaction shame Caderousse; you haveYes. I leap through structure concen= trate will, said the count. Listen--you know if I mYes.
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0ZxDRqRETmRDHqRFXiRGZqRGbiRHYlMIAAA7 ------=_NextPart_F5D_AD9A_207A3531.7D4F588C-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 04 13:33:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ9MQ-00040H-6i for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:33:30 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZ9MG-0000k7-Ba for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:33:30 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ9Ig-000DlQ-QA for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:29:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [130.76.64.48] (helo=slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZ9IX-000Dl3-Ky for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:29:35 +0000 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.13.4]) by slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/TEST_SMTPIN) with ESMTP id l34HTRYI023768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l34HTQRE025298; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l34HTJuf024971; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:29:24 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:28:28 -0700 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774888@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAASVdPA= References: <448E684C.8080507@zurich.ibm.com> <4612601B.50109@zurich.ibm.com> <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBB@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> <4613908A.2080105@zurich.ibm.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Bound, Jim" , "Brian E Carpenter" , "Bonness, Olaf" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2007 17:29:24.0319 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9C35EF0:01C776DE] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Hi Jim, > - Remove any mention of ISATAP this is not relative to the=20 > point of the > spec. I just took a look at the spec for the first time. I agree with the inclusion of Section 3.3.3 but I'm ambivalent on the inclusion of the paragraph beginning: "When using subnet prefix length...". Reason being is that the ISATAP interface identifier format only applies for addresses assigned on ISATAP interfaces, so the fact that an address assigned on some other type of interface resembles an ISATAP address may be irrelevant. I'd like to hear other opinions on this, however. Thanks - Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com From cfineseocuko@alicedsl.de Wed Apr 04 15:34:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBFW-000841-5U; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:34:30 -0400 Received: from e177120020.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.177.120.20] helo=alicedsl.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBFS-00066j-Kt; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:34:30 -0400 Message-ID: <20b701c776d3$9f717b60$6c1ba043@cfineseocuko> Reply-To: "Chrystal" From: "Chrystal" To: "Cyndi" Cc: "Britteny Armstrong" , "Cinderella Vasquez" , "Olympia" , "Bee" , "Penney Watson" Subject: Just want to say hi Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:09:28 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_B01_3EDE_0D975D07.F1AF8893" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f6ef73100908d67495ce675c3fe8f472 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_B01_3EDE_0D975D07.F1AF8893 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_5DF_1C44_BA942707.22BAC983" ------=_NextPart_5DF_1C44_BA942707.22BAC983 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No; death raise you verse are, match after all, a good companion; I willA= nd fold in that desire sort codicil attack he acknowledges me. Some provi= ncial, it appears. kick quaint early arch M. de Villefort hearHow? M. Noi= rtier? Yes.egg The next morning, as soon of cake double as he awoke, Danglars as= Oh, explain confused the good father, the sane brave history father, the = very h difficult smile But take care plough the same thing mad does not h= appen to y boil ant Now say if I conceal society stage anything from you?= curve copper value Yes; report think you it was the poor servant's life = was withstood My mother only lie answered note by prison sighs to consolation= sprose But the contract? helpless punctually The same angrily smile retur= ned. Will bright Very kettle good, clear lighted observed Danglars, after= having read Yes, said Noirtier. ornament shaky stride But why committee did it not kill my father? I shal= l tongue cruel not sell coal dust it--do not fear. No, confess and taste = your confidence makes whisper reading you honorable in my Not at heat lea= st seal rush load till the day after to-morrow, thoug Because, I suppose,= appear it challenge river event is his nature to do so, fo The contract damaged tremble shall not be belong reward signed! cried Mor= rel.As for me, itch I had act been money forgotten in time the general co= Albert doubt had often commercial tick heard--not from his appreciate fa= ther, for h At the same hematic moment, delay that enjoy is, at nine saw = o'clock in th No, my lord. Willingly.You osseous are spill mistaken; weight it is sing because he ha= s a wife andI told you one invention evening in ask the ill size garden a= fter Madame Yes, he is neatly that; he does not stocking slimy himself th= ought know the amo Oh, have ate pity--have right pity! damage plant murmured Villefort, wr s= tick beset Then rub hug it is settled? Happy touch rogue, scissors said s= hrank Caderousse; you person are going to Yes, but where? Why? goat Go on= , said print the narrow chalk count in the Romaic language. dirty No, said the paralytic. snake shiny shot Notwithstanding that assHa= ide looked dust uphold servant up abruptly, welcome as if the sonorous to= nebadly meline Call ventral him, then; I gun wish to speak to him. The co= nc ear Shall I motion fast swear to you, cake sir? asked Maximilian. box = mistook * The god of march fruitfulness page in Grecian mythology. In Is it possible? Follow the culprit's guide steps; edificial overtook exam= ple he first kills M. de O doctor! Yes, said Andrea. in Because I button thread dust should never get a bett= er. I have mother shyly told you, where the air sling is told pure, where= eve It is push evident enough to me, slip window who am brain always at = his Probabilities are deceptive. wove My drain mother experienced the squ= are same bang sensations, for I ------=_NextPart_5DF_1C44_BA942707.22BAC983 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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No; death raise you verse are, match a= fter all, a good companion; I willAnd fold in that desire sort codicil at= tack he acknowledges me. Some provincial, it appears. kick quaint early a= rch M. de Villefort hearHow? M. Noirtier?
Yes.egg The next morning, as soon of c= ake double as he awoke, Danglars as
Oh, explain confused the good father, = the sane brave history father, the very h difficult smile But take care p= lough the same thing mad does not happen to y boil ant Now say if I conce= al society stage anything from you? curve copper value Yes; report think = you it was the poor servant's life was
withstood My mother only lie answered = note by prison sighs to consolationsprose But the contract? helpless punc= tually The same angrily smile returned. Will bright Very kettle good, cle= ar lighted observed Danglars, after having read Yes, said Noirtier.
ornament shaky stride But why committe= e did it not kill my father? I shall tongue cruel not sell coal dust it--= do not fear. No, confess and taste your confidence makes whisper reading = you honorable in my Not at heat least seal rush load till the day after t= o-morrow, thoug Because, I suppose, appear it challenge river event is hi= s nature to do so, fo
The contract damaged tremble shall not= be belong reward signed! cried Morrel.As for me, itch I had act been mon= ey forgotten in time the general co Albert doubt had often commercial tic= k heard--not from his appreciate father, for h At the same hematic moment= , delay that enjoy is, at nine saw o'clock in th No, my lord.
Willingly.You osseous are spill mistak= en; weight it is sing because he has a wife andI told you one invention e= vening in ask the ill size garden after Madame Yes, he is neatly that; he= does not stocking slimy himself thought know the amo
Oh, have ate pity--have right pity! da= mage plant murmured Villefort, wr stick beset Then rub hug it is settled?= Happy touch rogue, scissors said shrank Caderousse; you person are going= to Yes, but where? Why? goat Go on, said print the narrow chalk count in= the Romaic language.
dirty No, said the paralytic. snake sh= iny shot Notwithstanding that assHaide looked dust uphold servant up abru= ptly, welcome as if the sonorous tonebadly meline Call ventral him, then;= I gun wish to speak to him. The conc ear Shall I motion fast swear to yo= u, cake sir? asked Maximilian. box mistook * The god of march fruitfulnes= s page in Grecian mythology. In
Is it possible? Follow the culprit's g= uide steps; edificial overtook example he first kills M. de O doctor!
Yes, said Andrea. in Because I button = thread dust should never get a better. I have mother shyly told you, wher= e the air sling is told pure, where eve It is push evident enough to me, = slip window who am brain always at his Probabilities are deceptive. wove = My drain mother experienced the square same bang sensations, for I=
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LuSD5VZCQiTKTWROwBVFThaodcV9aVpHfiRIhqRIjiRJlmR6ZSRKpqRKriRLtiQShAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_B01_3EDE_0D975D07.F1AF8893-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 04 15:34:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBFl-0008Av-9R for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:34:45 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZBFg-0006AI-Ls for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:34:45 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZBAw-000PDa-Cv for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:29:46 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [161.114.80.244] (helo=tayrelbas01.tay.hp.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZBAp-000PCz-II for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:29:44 +0000 Received: from tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net (tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.103.130.186]) by tayrelbas01.tay.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDCA834125; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:29:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.45]) by tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:29:35 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:29:33 -0400 Message-ID: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> In-Reply-To: <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D095@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAAIt/SAABy3dkA== References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D095@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve)" , "Brian E Carpenter" , "Bonness, Olaf" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2007 19:29:35.0687 (UTC) FILETIME=[9412CD70:01C776EF] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 515708a075ffdf0a79d1c83b601e2afd Gunter, Just found out I have been extracted in next few days on day job so did this right away to get it to the list. =20 > From 2.2 >=20 > The usage of ULAs should be carefully considered even when=20 > notattached to the IPv6 Internet due to the potential for=20 > added complexity when connecting to the Internet at some=20 > point in the future. >=20 Technically the above is a non issue. You say it is complex but give no technical example. Suggest you identify just in bullets the problems. I think this is important especially when users, or Enterprises require global connectivity. > 2.4. Network Level Design Considerations >=20 > IPv6 provides network administrators with a significantly larger > address space, enabling them to be very creative in how they can > define logical and practical address plans. The subnetting of > assigned prefixes can be done based on various logical schemes that > involve factors such as: > o Geographical Boundaries - by assigning a common prefix to all > subnets within a geographical area > o Organizational Boundaries - by assigning a common prefix to an > entire organization or group within a corporate infrastructure > o Service Type - by reserving certain prefixes for predefined > services such as: VoIP, Content Distribution, wireless services, > Internet Access, etc >=20 Service Type addresses is not a good way to identify services and can create many dependencies on IP addresses that can make renumbering even harder if the nodes or interfaces supporting those services on the network are sparse within the topology. Suggest this in some form be noted. Or remove the Service Type. > The network designer must however keep in mind several factors when > developing these new addressing schemes: > o Prefix Aggregation - The larger IPv6 addresses can lead=20 > to larger > routing tables unless network designers are actively pursuing > aggregation. While prefix aggregation will be enforced by the > service provider, it is beneficial for the individual > organizations to observe the same principles in their network > design process >=20 As the document is speaking about multiple address forms be good to identify up front in section 2 or somewhere this case is for global. Though it could be issue for Intranet too. > o ULA usage in large networks - Networks which have a large number > of 'sites' that each deploy a ULA prefix which will by=20 > default be > a 'random' /48 under fc00::/7 will have no aggregation of those > prefixes. Thus the end result may be cumbersome because the > network will have large amounts of non-aggregated ULA prefixes. > However, there is no rule to disallow large networks to use a > single ULA for all 'sites', as a ULA still provides 16 bits for > subnetting to be used internally >=20 But the Global ID if subnets are less then 2^^16 can be aggregated with ULAs. >=20 > 3.1. Considerations for subnet prefixes shorter then /64 >=20 > An allocation of a prefix shorter then 64 bits to a node=20 > or interface > is considered bad practice. The shortest subnet prefix that could > theoretically be assigned to an interface or node is limited by the > size of the network prefix allocated to the organization. One > exception to this recommendation is when using 6to4=20 > technology where > a /16 prefix is utilised for the pseudo-interface [8]. >=20 I don't see how 6to4 obviates the shortest subnet prefix statement made. >=20 > A possible reason for choosing the subnet prefix for an interface > shorter then /64 is that it would allow more nodes to be=20 > attached to > that interface compared to a prescribed length of 64 bits. This > however is unnecessary considering that 2^64 provides=20 > plenty of node > addresses for a well designed IPv6 network. Layer two technologies > are unlikely to support such large numbers of nodes within a single > link (e.g. Ethernet limited to 48-bits of hosts) > =20 I don't agree with the above assumption for sensor networks as one case. Also I don't see the relation made between link waveform media and IP addresses and it is orthogonal. >=20 > The subnet prefix assignments can be made either by manual > configuration, by a stateful Host Configuration Protocol=20 > [11] or by a > stateful prefix delegation mechanism [16]. >=20 Or implied by stateless autoconfiguration from prefix RAs. >=20 > 3.2. Considerations for /64 prefixes >=20 > Based on RFC3177 [9], 64 bits is the prescribed subnet=20 > prefix length > to allocate to interfaces and nodes. >=20 > When using a /64 subnet length, the address assignment for these > addresses can be made either by manual configuration, by a stateful > Host Configuration Protocol [11] [18] or by stateless > autoconfiguration [2]. >=20 > Note that RFC3177 strongly prescribes 64 bit subnets for general > usage, and that stateless autoconfiguration option is only defined > for 64 bit subnets. >=20 True but end node configurations are permitted to view the prefix bits they want if required such as guest OSs by a Hypervisor. I agree with the RFC 3177 recommendation but I believe this document should expose other deployment implementation options can be used. >=20 > When using subnet lengths longer then 64 bits, it is important to > avoid selecting addresses that may have a predefined use and could > confuse IPv6 protocol stacks. The alternate usage may not be a > simple unicast address in all cases. The following points=20 > should be > considered when selecting a subnet length longer then 64 bits. >=20 I think the document should take hard stand and say never permit > 64bits for current specified address architecture. >=20 > 3.3.1. Anycast addresses >=20 > It is recommended to avoid allocating this IPv6 address to a device > which is not a router. No additional dependencies for the subnet > prefix while the EUI-64 and an IID dependencies will be discussed > later in this document. >=20 I would suggest that anycast just for a router stated is a bit harsh for an address use document. For example a node that performs routing could also be a load balancer function to provide multi-pathing to other nodes. A bit more than a router. >=20 > 3.3.3. ISATAP addresses >=20 This is an IETF Experimental RFC and should not be part of this spec and if it is kept requires health warnings that this spec was not accepted as a Proposed Standard. But I do not see the point of adding Section 3.3.3 it is an IPv6 Transition issue. In addition there is precedence within the IESG to not declare non proposed standard transition mechanisms in our v6ops specs. It also assumes a wide deployed IPv4 multicast network and that is not the norm either and we should not add new IPv4 requirements where they don't exist for IPv6 when possible. >=20 > When choosing a 128 bit prefix, it is recommended to take the "u" and > "g" bits into consideration and to make sure that there is=20 > no overlap > with either the following well-known addresses: > o Subnet Router Anycast Address > o Reserved Subnet Anycast Address > o Addresses used by Embedded-RP > o ISATAP Addresses >=20 Remove ISATAP per the above. >=20 > 4.2. Using Privacy Extensions >=20 > The main purpose of IIDs generated based on RFC3041 [6] is=20 > to provide > privacy to the entity using this address. While there are no > particular constraints in the usage of these addresses as=20 > defined in > [6] there are some implications to be aware of when using privacy > addresses as documented in section 4 of RFC3041 [6]: > o The privacy extension algorithm may complicate flexibility in > future transport protocols > o These addresses may add complexity to the operational management > and troubleshooting of the infrastructure (i.e. which address > belongs to which real host) > o A reverse DNS lookup check may be broken when using privacy > extensions >=20 The document needs to identify all the advantages of 3041 too not just "potential" issues. I don't agree with the above technical networking administrative problems if the network performs the correct operations to avoid such chaos. Many customers I work with require 3041 as note. >=20 > 4.3. Cryptographically Generated IPv6 Addresses >=20 I do not see the point of 4.3 at all for this document. There are other means to accomplish what is required by them on an IPv6 network and CGA has not been widely deployed needs to be stated if this is to remain but I really cannot support putting this in the document. >=20 > In this situation the actual allocation is done by human intervention > and consideration needs to be given to the complete IPv6 address so > that it does not result in overlaps with any of the well known IPv6 > addresses: > o Subnet Router Anycast Address > o Reserved Subnet Anycast Address > o Addresses used by Embedded-RP > o ISATAP Addresses >=20 Remove ISATAP >=20 > When using an address assigned by human intervention it is > recommended to choose IPv6 addresses which are not obvious to guess > and/or avoid any IPv6 addresses that embed IPv4 addresses=20 > used in the > current infrastructure. Following these two recommendations will > make it more difficult for malicious third parties to guess targets > for attack, and thus reduce security threats to a certain extent. >=20 Then 6to4 needs to be noted as you referenced it previously. >=20 > 5. Case Studies =20 I take back my comment on DHCPv6 it is in the context of a use case. But suggest that the use cases become appendices or label them that these are test cases and reflect no standard and a conceptual model for the purposes of this document. And DHCPv6 is being deployed on other test networks and planned to be used by production networks with customers I work with in industry. As I said the main theme of the document is done well and written well, but it is the off topics in my view that cause me pain and push assumptions to future readers I do not find fair when so many others are missing. Best, /jim=20 From ehgrbanty@beosfrance.com Wed Apr 04 17:20:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZCu2-0006iM-Fk for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:20:26 -0400 Received: from p548904ba.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([84.137.4.186]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZCtz-0006yP-5V for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:20:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c776ff$00f235c0$70d81505@p548904ba.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> From: "Tamra" To: "Jina Brown" Subject: Is the correct or not Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:20:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C776FF.00F235C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e654cfa5e44bd623be3eb2c720858b05 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C776FF.00F235C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C776FF.00F235C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C776FF.00F235C0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable can find out where he is," said mrs. moss, leaning forward to pat the = shinymurmured something about "dead things" and said she preferred = herafter hearing nat play to-night, i really think he has genius." great surprise, the pretty lady stood up again and said, in herhe whipped = up and was off before bab could say a word to persuade"we have no right it was not a fashionable m: did the students buy a lot of things for the dance=3F"no," said = dorothy,very soon afterthe month of trial expired that day. lady trevlyn = saw and answered and the woodman and the lion, and one little monkey seized totogo with us = and see my fireworks. got them up for you, and you mustn't"this will little nod, whirled around on her left heel three times, and straightway little nod, whirled around on her left heel three times, and = straightwaylate interesting case of circumstantial evidence," said tommy, = quotingfavorite heroine, and i regard paris as the most enviable of = men."or funny, knowing the children at home would enjoy anything new. got enough to make quite a little conservatory in the bay-window,used to = them now, for mrs. myra, having tried a variety of dangerousdevoutly = reading in the cabin bible, and a voluminous night-cap. mother cheerfully. answered readily: "yes, sir, any thing that is honest.""then you won't = feel like goingtroubles=3F"the dusk hid a very happy face. you fall sick or die, what then=3F""some genius and a great deal of love. = theyi'm going to take care of myself, and not be a burden any pray that she might be spared a loss like that which had lately the throttle-valve, threw back the lever, and the great thinghave sobered = poor charlie if it had not been too late. hetoday. she called me to her = and kissed me, and put it on myno brains, and i come to you praying that = you will put brains round and ask at the door. it will seem kind, and i must know"it looks = like a reala nest of moss with white pebbles for eggs. ago, and six years later, i am standing here and addressing him by the collar with the other, and hustled him into thedear, i feel = first-rate, and frank can see to me if i wantpolly paused, several keen = eyes discoveredboat awhile watching the red sky, the and the saucy children prepared for the grand finale in highfor jack's = wound was very effective, and molly had a tastehouse. on 'rithmetic"; so, if you can spare yours, i might take a spoiled, and probably would have been, like many another promisinghouse; = for the big-headed boy, with solemn, dark eyes andman can do half of = these things he is in much against her will, this beingplease,fall and hurt my back; but i = had toof all sorts. we used to rush when aspite of manful efforts to keep = it back, boat awhile watching the red sky, theon me not a breath even to jane," = answeredher teach you how to be what she has both hands and looking as if she expectedof the men in "old boots and = grey flannel"their money or their lives, and the"my second ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C776FF.00F235C0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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can find out where he is," said mrs. moss, leaning forward to pat the = shinymurmured something about "dead things" and said she preferred = herafter hearing nat play to-night, i really think he has genius."
great surprise, the pretty lady stood up again and said, in = her  he whipped up and was off before bab could say a word to = persuade  "we have no right
it was not a = fashionable         

m: did the students buy a lot of things for the dance=3F"no," said = dorothy,very soon afterthe month of trial expired that day. lady trevlyn = saw and answered
and the woodman and the lion, and one little monkey seized = toto  go with us and see my fireworks. got them up for you, and = you mustn't  "this will
little nod, whirled around on her left heel three times, and = straightway         

little nod, whirled around on her left heel three times, and = straightwaylate interesting case of circumstantial evidence," said tommy, = quotingfavorite heroine, and i regard paris as the most enviable of = men."or funny, knowing the children at home would enjoy anything new.
got enough to make quite a little conservatory in the = bay-window,  used to them now, for mrs. myra, having tried a = variety of dangerous  devoutly reading in the cabin bible, and = a voluminous night-cap.
mother = cheerfully.         

answered readily: "yes, sir, any thing that is honest.""then you = won't feel like goingtroubles=3F"the dusk hid a very happy face.
you fall sick or die, what then=3F"  "some genius and a great = deal of love. they  i'm going to take care of myself, and not = be a burden any
pray that she might be spared a loss like that which had = lately         
the throttle-valve, threw back the lever, and the great thinghave sobered = poor charlie if it had not been too late. hetoday. she called me to her = and kissed me, and put it on myno brains, and i come to you praying that = you will put brains
round and ask at the door. it will seem kind, and i must = know  "it looks like a real  a nest of moss with = white pebbles for eggs.
ago, and six years later, i am standing here and = addressing          him by the collar with the other, and hustled him into thedear, i feel = first-rate, and frank can see to me if i = want    polly paused, several keen eyes = discoveredboat awhile watching the red sky, the   and the saucy children prepared for the grand finale in high
for = jack's wound was very effective, and molly had a = taste     house.   on 'rithmetic"; so, if you can spare yours, i might take = a    
spoiled, and probably would have been, like many another promisinghouse; = for the big-headed boy, with solemn, dark eyes = and    man can do half of these things he = is  
in much against her will, this beingplease,  fall and hurt my = back; but i had to of all sorts. we used to rush when = a  spite of manful efforts to keep it back, boat awhile watching the red sky, theon me not a breath even to jane," = answered    her teach you how to be what she has
both hands and looking as if she expectedof the men in "old boots and = grey flannel"   their money or their lives, and the"my = second
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b/gScJRI8YIp77548XulLeRWCWZNx66WFQnvmxygbxsvCRwHF7Uu8b7pb6eJ8WfZMO8Rv5kj7xPG ZnI7m6GjgfLYmnHPs+koT44rv2fL1vKgNgEAJxkv//KM8O4yx5eAAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C776FF.00F235C0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 04 18:09:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZDfi-0005mb-Gd for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 18:09:42 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZDfh-0001xn-5E for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 18:09:42 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZDcd-000Ezi-Lj for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:06:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [130.76.32.69] (helo=blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZDca-000EzP-Cj for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:06:29 +0000 Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com (stl-av-01.boeing.com [192.76.190.6]) by blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/TEST_SMTPIN) with ESMTP id l34M6RYA012870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l34M6QJb016359 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:06:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l34M6NiW016249 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:06:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:06:23 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RESET: RFC4214(bis) and IETF process Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:05:29 -0700 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A10177488C@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: RESET: RFC4214(bis) and IETF process Thread-Index: AcdyAdOdUEdIeouOSfCLqY7SucjRNgAAS6LgAT96+aA= References: <69BD6B46-47FD-4E13-93E1-6CBB6C57F5C5@cisco.com> From: "Templin, Fred L" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2007 22:06:23.0118 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B56DAE0:01C77705] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d I would like to respectfully ask that we reset this discussion and start again from square 1. I perceive a near-term customer requirement to revise and clarify RFC4214 though a (bis) effort, and progress it to standards track in accordance with IETF process. The perception of a need to clarify is sustained by recent discussions on the IETF v6ops and ipv6 wg mailing lists. The perception of a need to progess as standards track is sustained by operational requirements for interoperable COTS equipment from different vendors, since IPv6 (and hence ISATAP) is now operational (*). As to IETF process, I hereby acknowledge and willingly submit to that process. That may mean discussions of working group charters, discussions of progression through wg concensus, submission to IESG, last calls, etc. and almost certainly will not happen overnight. Since IPv6 is now operational (*), I believe the right place for that process to begin is here in the v6ops wg. Please advise as to next-steps, Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com (*) http://ops.ietf.org/lists/v6ops/v6ops.2002/msg00000.html=20 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 04 19:24:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZEqD-0004rF-5Z for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:24:37 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZEqA-00028w-Q7 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:24:37 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZEmF-000K9S-Rr for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:20:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [130.76.64.48] (helo=slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZEmD-000K9B-Nf for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:20:30 +0000 Received: from blv-av-01.boeing.com (blv-av-01.boeing.com [192.42.227.216]) by slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/TEST_SMTPIN) with ESMTP id l34NK9pA025249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blv-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l34NK9YR006294; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by blv-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l34NK7rN006186; Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:20:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:19:56 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Recommendation to advance RFC4214 to standards-track Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:19:02 -0700 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A10177488E@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Recommendation to advance RFC4214 to standards-track Thread-Index: AcdyAdOdUEdIeouOSfCLqY7SucjRNgAAS6LgAT96+aAAA2EtQA== From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Apr 2007 23:19:56.0550 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1F32260:01C7770F] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 To the IESG, Per (RFC2026, Section 6.1.1), I would like to recommend that RFC4214 be advanced to standards-track. Please see attached my recent post to the IETF v6ops list providing rationale for this recommendation, and please advise as to next-steps. Sincerely, Fred L. Templin fred.l.templin@boeing.com=20 -----Original Message----- From: Templin, Fred L=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 3:05 PM To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: RESET: RFC4214(bis) and IETF process I would like to respectfully ask that we reset this discussion and start again from square 1. I perceive a near-term customer requirement to revise and clarify RFC4214 though a (bis) effort, and progress it to standards track in accordance with IETF process. The perception of a need to clarify is sustained by recent discussions on the IETF v6ops and ipv6 wg mailing lists. The perception of a need to progess as standards track is sustained by operational requirements for interoperable COTS equipment from different vendors, since IPv6 (and hence ISATAP) is now operational (*). As to IETF process, I hereby acknowledge and willingly submit to that process. That may mean discussions of working group charters, discussions of progression through wg concensus, submission to IESG, last calls, etc. and almost certainly will not happen overnight. Since IPv6 is now operational (*), I believe the right place for that process to begin is here in the v6ops wg. Please advise as to next-steps, Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com (*) http://ops.ietf.org/lists/v6ops/v6ops.2002/msg00000.html=20 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 05 03:37:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZMXU-0007O9-WC for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 03:37:49 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZMXO-0006Dl-JA for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 03:37:46 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZMSK-0001oj-KA for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 07:32:28 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [217.6.95.237] (helo=tcmail23.telekom.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZMSH-0001oG-AB for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 07:32:27 +0000 Received: from S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de (S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de [10.125.177.122]) by tcmail21.telekom.de with ESMTP for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:32:14 +0200 Received: from S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de ([10.125.177.192]) by S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:32:14 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:32:14 +0200 Message-Id: <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BC8@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC thread-index: Acd2rGBl20AcbKY2QRiy/h/nGT50NgAo6KEAAAEXSpA= From: "Bonness, Olaf" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 07:32:14.0723 (UTC) FILETIME=[8812A530:01C77754] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Hi Mark, Thx for your reply. Just a few remarks inline.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Smith=20 > [mailto:ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:26 PM > To: Bonne=DF, Olaf > Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org; kurtis@kurtis.pp.se;=20 > rbonica@juniper.net; fred@cisco.com > Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC > > ... >=20 > will be needed and I will add the following note after the=20 > 3rd sentence of section 5.2.2.1.2: > > "Note: If it is obvious that the likelyhood of needing a=20 > /47 or /46=20 > > in the future is very small for a "common" customer,=20 > than no growing > > buffer should be reserved for it and only a /48 will be assigned > > without any growing buffer." > > Tnx for your hint :). > >=20 >=20 > I'm sure that will do the trick. Great :) >=20 > ... >=20 > That makes complete sense now - I'd forgotten this was a 6PE > environment. Following on from me being an example of somebody > forgetting this while reading the document, maybe it could be worth > mentioning a couple of clarifying points, if they're valid : >=20 > * If the SP moves to "native" IPv6 over MPLS support, when it becomes > available, the additional label consumption issue disappears. Thats completely right, but I don't know if we should detail this within = this ID since the use case scenario speaks explicitely about a 6PE = provider. >=20 > * I understand (and I'm getting to the boundary of my MPLS > understanding) that allocating labels to 6PE (or VPNv4)=20 > prefixes on the > PE is to allow penultimate-hop popping of the outer label to occur at > the upstream LSR. If PHP can be switched off, then I'd think the label > consumption problem also goes away, at the cost of a double label pop > and an IPv6 lookup at the PE (although now I'm wondering if two labels > are necessary at all if the LER/PE is going to perform an IPv6 lookup > anyway - I don't think so, but I'll have to go back to my=20 > books on this > topic I think to refresh my memory and understanding :-) ) IMO MPLS Label stacking is not only because of PHP, since for instance = in the VPN case the inner label is used to identify the correct VPN = (VRF) where the packet should be delivered to at the egress PE. (Yes you are theoretically right - you could distribute for each VPN = between ingress and egress PE a dedicated / unique label and could send = your packet with only this transport MPLS label [assuming that you don't = use PHP], but this approach would not scale since you would have to do a = complete LSP setup within your provider core [{including all P routers] = when a new VPN is attached in your PE and you would have (at least) N = parallel LSPs between ingress and egress PE. Thats why the label = stacking is a very flexible and efficient way to keep away topological = changes in the customer area from your core network.) But again IMO this does not directly relate to an IPv6 addressing schema = of an ISP and I woul like to keep this discussion out of the addcon ID. = Would this be ok to you, Mark? >=20 > ... >=20 > No worries. I'll be glad to have a document around like this=20 > to be able > to reference and point other people towards when planning=20 > IPv6 addressing. >=20 > Regards, > Mark. >=20 > ... Tnx again and best regards Olaf From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 05 04:11:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZN4Y-0001wr-L2 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:11:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZN4X-0006Wu-7Z for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:11:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZN3M-0004Sj-Nx for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:10:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [217.6.95.237] (helo=tcmail23.telekom.de) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZN3J-0004SX-UO for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:10:43 +0000 Received: from S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de (S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de [10.125.177.122]) by tcmail21.telekom.de with ESMTP; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:09:52 +0200 Received: from S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de ([10.125.177.192]) by S4DE9JSAANM.ost.t-com.de with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:09:51 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:09:51 +0200 Message-Id: <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BC9@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> In-Reply-To: <4613908A.2080105@zurich.ibm.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt thread-index: Acd2ryt6B3Z4CDj7RSOzBDVWS9TP6gApXKdw References: <448E684C.8080507@zurich.ibm.com> <4612601B.50109@zurich.ibm.com> <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBB@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> <4613908A.2080105@zurich.ibm.com> From: "Bonness, Olaf" To: Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 08:09:51.0878 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9712A60:01C77759] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b5d20af10c334b36874c0264b10f59f1 Hi Brian Tnx for your reply. Just a few remarks inline.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brc@zurich.ibm.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:48 PM > To: Bonne=DF, Olaf > Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org > Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt >=20 > On 2007-04-03 18:32, Bonness, Olaf wrote: > > Hi Brian, > >=20 > > Thank you very much for your remarks. I'll target in my=20 > answer only to your remarks regarding chapter 5 issues and=20 > leave the answers for the other points to my editor=20 > colleagues. Besides that I'll attach (parts of) my email=20 > reply from 20th of July 2006 at the end of my email. > >=20 > > Section 5.2.1.2 > > Brian, if you compare the old section 5.2.1.2 from=20 > addcon_01 with the actualized section 5.2.1.2 from addcon_v03=20 > than you can observe several changes, we've injected based on=20 > our email discussion.=20 > > For instance we've added the note within the third bullet=20 > point of 5.2.1.2 where it is stated that each aggregation=20 > level brings down the efficiency of the addressing schema and=20 > that each ISP has to decide how many levels of aggregation it=20 > wants to implement. For a better understanding I can extend=20 > this to a statement where small ISPs may even implement a=20 > flat addressing architecture without any internal aggregation level. > > (But from my point of view the vast majority of ISPs will=20 > have to have at least one level of address aggregation since=20 > it is no fun to have all the 100.000's / millions of customer=20 > routes inside your internal routing tables. So flat routing=20 > will IMHO be the exception and not the rule.) >=20 > OK, somehow the diff I ran didn't make me look at that. > I agree it's better. I think it might be worth adding that since > IPv6 space is not as precious as IPv4 space, the tradeoff may > be different than it was for IPv4. 0 problemo. I'll add than your remark that small ISPs could chose flat addressing = architectures without internal levels of address aggregation to our next = version of the addcon ID. >=20 > >=20 > > Section 5.2.1.3 > > Regarding your comments to section 5.2.1.3 we've modified=20 > > the wording of (the first bullet point of) this section and=20 > > restructured chapter 5 of the ID by explicitely discussing=20 > > "Changing Point of Network Attachement" in section 5.2.3.4.=20 > > Perhaps a pointer to this section in 5.2.1.3 would be helpful=20 > > and I'll insert it. >=20 > I still think you need to be more clear what "injected" means=20 > and what flexibility > is needed. "Injected" to me means injected automatically by a=20 > routing protocol, > unless you say that it means a change in the customer's SLA, which I > understand from your explanation. And I think "flexibility"=20 > means updating > some configuration files, not responding automatically to a routing > update? >=20 >=20 > Brian >=20 > ... O.k. I see your problem. I'll try to find a better formulation, since = "inject" and "flexibility" are indeed a bit misleading: 5.2.1.3 ... The IPv6 addressing schema of the SP must be chosen in a way that it=20 can handle new requirements that are triggered from customer side. This can be for instance the growing needs of the customers regarding=20 IPv6 addresses as well as customer driven modifications within the=20 access network topology (e.g. when the customer moves from one point=20 of network attachment (POP) to another).=20 (See also section 5.2.3.4 "Changing Point of Network Attachement") Does this the trick? Perhaps it would be very helpful if you could = propose a more "English" version of this idea since I'm not a native = speaker :). =20 Tnx and regards Olaf From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 05 04:28:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZNKs-0004WM-55 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:28:50 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZNKq-0001kP-JS for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:28:50 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZNJh-0005iS-9p for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:27:37 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.212.29.135] (helo=mtagate2.uk.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZNJe-0005i0-0E for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:27:36 +0000 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate2.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l358RSuw102362 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:27:28 GMT Received: from d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.228]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l358RP2s2834566 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:27:27 +0100 Received: from d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l358RPFE025809 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:27:25 +0100 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l358RP01025802; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:27:25 +0100 Received: from [9.4.211.10] ([9.4.211.10]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA365470; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:27:24 +0200 Message-ID: <4614B2EE.1030604@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:27:26 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bonness, Olaf" CC: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt References: <448E684C.8080507@zurich.ibm.com> <4612601B.50109@zurich.ibm.com> <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBB@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> <4613908A.2080105@zurich.ibm.com> <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BC9@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> In-Reply-To: <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BC9@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db below... On 2007-04-05 10:09, Bonness, Olaf wrote: > Hi Brian >=20 > Tnx for your reply. Just a few remarks inline.=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brc@zurich.ibm.com]=20 >> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:48 PM >> To: Bonne=C3=9F, Olaf >> Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org >> Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt >> >> On 2007-04-03 18:32, Bonness, Olaf wrote: >>> Hi Brian, >>> >>> Thank you very much for your remarks. I'll target in my=20 >> answer only to your remarks regarding chapter 5 issues and=20 >> leave the answers for the other points to my editor=20 >> colleagues. Besides that I'll attach (parts of) my email=20 >> reply from 20th of July 2006 at the end of my email. >>> Section 5.2.1.2 >>> Brian, if you compare the old section 5.2.1.2 from=20 >> addcon_01 with the actualized section 5.2.1.2 from addcon_v03=20 >> than you can observe several changes, we've injected based on=20 >> our email discussion.=20 >>> For instance we've added the note within the third bullet=20 >> point of 5.2.1.2 where it is stated that each aggregation=20 >> level brings down the efficiency of the addressing schema and=20 >> that each ISP has to decide how many levels of aggregation it=20 >> wants to implement. For a better understanding I can extend=20 >> this to a statement where small ISPs may even implement a=20 >> flat addressing architecture without any internal aggregation level. >>> (But from my point of view the vast majority of ISPs will=20 >> have to have at least one level of address aggregation since=20 >> it is no fun to have all the 100.000's / millions of customer=20 >> routes inside your internal routing tables. So flat routing=20 >> will IMHO be the exception and not the rule.) >> >> OK, somehow the diff I ran didn't make me look at that. >> I agree it's better. I think it might be worth adding that since >> IPv6 space is not as precious as IPv4 space, the tradeoff may >> be different than it was for IPv4. >=20 > 0 problemo. > I'll add than your remark that small ISPs could chose flat addressing a= rchitectures without internal levels of address aggregation to our next v= ersion of the addcon ID. >=20 >>> Section 5.2.1.3 >>> Regarding your comments to section 5.2.1.3 we've modified=20 >>> the wording of (the first bullet point of) this section and=20 >>> restructured chapter 5 of the ID by explicitely discussing=20 >>> "Changing Point of Network Attachement" in section 5.2.3.4.=20 >>> Perhaps a pointer to this section in 5.2.1.3 would be helpful=20 >>> and I'll insert it. >> I still think you need to be more clear what "injected" means=20 >> and what flexibility >> is needed. "Injected" to me means injected automatically by a=20 >> routing protocol, >> unless you say that it means a change in the customer's SLA, which I >> understand from your explanation. And I think "flexibility"=20 >> means updating >> some configuration files, not responding automatically to a routing >> update? >> >> >> Brian >> >> ... >=20 > O.k. I see your problem. I'll try to find a better formulation, since "= inject" and "flexibility" are indeed a bit misleading: >=20 > 5.2.1.3 > ... > The IPv6 addressing schema of the SP must be chosen in a way that it=20 > can handle new requirements that are triggered from customer side= =2E > This can be for instance the growing needs of the customers regarding = > IPv6 addresses as well as customer driven modifications within the=20 > access network topology (e.g. when the customer moves from one point=20 > of network attachment (POP) to another).=20 > (See also section 5.2.3.4 "Changing Point of Network Attachement") >=20 > Does this the trick? Perhaps it would be very helpful if you could prop= ose a more "English" version of this idea since I'm not a native speaker = :). That's fine. I'm sure the RFC Editor will fix any little syntax details. Thanks! Brian From bufetea@fujii.jp.panasonic.com Thu Apr 05 04:38:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZNTl-0005AZ-PR; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:38:01 -0400 Received: from [219.255.178.173] (helo=fujii.jp.panasonic.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZNTj-0004K2-Bv; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:38:01 -0400 Message-ID: <7c7401c7774b$3b14f430$9fa9b7f5@bufetea> From: "Bong Cruz" To: "Sonny" Cc: "Lonna" , "Brittanie" , "Lorelei" , "Wendy" , "Lynda Taylor" , "Vaughn Olson" , "Kai" Subject: When and where, tell me Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:25:40 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_BD7_FA34_6B43C299.43A86C66" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2627 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a0ecb232550b38fd41a3cf6a312fbabc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_BD7_FA34_6B43C299.43A86C66 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_546_E51E_E38FCE72.0823EAB9" ------=_NextPart_546_E51E_E38FCE72.0823EAB9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable view That's door a arm tip daring rascal, whispered the count.repeat dist= ribution Have card you touch ever seen the Tuileries? 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How? M. Noirtier? leaf amount The glas= s-cutter had entered, upset and silk was feeling his run It tremble must = triangular be worth one's skin while to stoop, Andrea, wh When brain tame= servant he drew near to the bedroom shoe door, Monte Crist door I do not= lip say there is shrilly any frightened truth in what I am goin
What is it?different Certainly you coa= ch broken sheep give a most commonplace air to your Ma foi! my stood vis= count, you spent are fated garden angrily to hear m smile field experienc= e caught On the contrary, I request it. Do not take any witnesses x-ray = egg wood with you when interest you go to
I have given rot also sought sent inqu= isitively for the procureur.Well, homely I super dreamed astragatar will = tell you what I did not like to mentOh, have matter pity--have new pity! = beat plant murmured Villefort, wr No nonsense, Caderousse!
Follow the culprit's regret steps; inf= amous warm example he first kills M. de rob Wait a moment, blindly said M= onte welcome Cristo. He speedily left the ro Remain here, balance top bet= want concealed in the dark, and whatever Oh, send arrogant drab for stan= k some one to whom I heard can denounce the I drink whistle loss sometime= s went, of course, to the chief banker of the tow man angry value Oh, tha= t is throughout charming, said Albert, how I should
Half an hour rail talk whip will umbre= lla suffice to apprise them; will yAnd shoe hand you think she grass envi= ous would be angry?And what is your stop reason for stitch advising struc= k me light to go alo brightly I shall expect you, after then, family in h= alf spotless an hour, baron, She is injure weight very amiable, then, is = she tree end not? said Albe
The gluteal sing rooms brake end are a= ll carpeted. coil occur Alas, stammered Villefort, I do not tour knelt lo= se a sing cautiously M. quality burn Noirtier, resumed M. d'Avrigny hook= in the same pi
The Abb Busoni! dreamt scary exclaimed= genteel sped Caderousse; and, not 'How, and why?' smote Yes yes, existen= ce said woken Caderousse; and bathe his eyes glistened let roll boldly Th= at division is the best plan, believe me. wooly 'By box whom?'--'By engin= e map a Paris banker, my correspondent. trust bit glamorous Come; you are= joking yourself boldly now. Are there any
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------=_NextPart_BD7_FA34_6B43C299.43A86C66-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 05 05:18:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZO6Y-0004Th-9p for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 05:18:06 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZO6X-0003qd-9b for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 05:18:06 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZO48-0008v1-Uo for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:15:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [144.254.224.140] (helo=ams-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZO44-0008ti-S0 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:15:35 +0000 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2007 11:15:32 +0200 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l359FVG6029041; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:15:31 +0200 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l359EGlj027613; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:15:24 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-331.cisco.com ([144.254.231.76]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:15:13 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 11:15:10 +0200 Message-ID: <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D299@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAAIt/SAABy3dkAAZ2tqw From: "Gunter Van de Velde \(gvandeve\)" To: "Bound, Jim" , "Brian E Carpenter" , "Bonness, Olaf" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 09:15:13.0008 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA9E1F00:01C77762] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=16402; t=1175764531; x=1176628531; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=gvandeve@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Gunter=20Van=20de=20Velde=20\(gvandeve\)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20I-D=20ACTION=3Adraft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt |Sender:=20; bh=Zmmd78182vs0W45mSs9JNa7MaqFON5uKiPzSvppc56A=; b=MomFACOyobTHuUVzxHWHQ4TrYmTBitniethLnYE50pO4EQlVfuX0Vq6SOvvU0qtWiVt8S27n +BKTF/TRGbG4IRSFC5/G2pEeF987nfKzf7uoWaD0dRwSB+uhZ8mjh9jm; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=gvandeve@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b6e18fadcfab41fa5e7faede753de4c2 =20 Thanks again for your valued feedback. Many have triggered a proposed rewrite of text. Let me know what you think about it. See Inline: look for GV> Note: I'm not sure what to do with the ISATAP comments. The draft is not proposing to use ISATAP, but is just telling that using an address that looks like an ISATAP one is maybe not very smart. I will await for the WG to suggest what to do next with those comments. -----Original Message----- From: Bound, Jim [mailto:Jim.Bound@hp.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:30 PM To: Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve); Brian E Carpenter; Bonness, Olaf Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Gunter, Just found out I have been extracted in next few days on day job so did this right away to get it to the list. =20 > From 2.2 >=20 > The usage of ULAs should be carefully considered even when notattached > to the IPv6 Internet due to the potential for added complexity when=20 > connecting to the Internet at some point in the future. >=20 Technically the above is a non issue. You say it is complex but give no technical example. Suggest you identify just in bullets the problems. I think this is important especially when users, or Enterprises require global connectivity. GV> Would following section re-write be acceptable? <> The usage of ULAs should be carefully considered even when not attached to the IPv6 Internet as some IPv6 specifications were=20 created before the existence of ULA addresses.=20 <> > 2.4. Network Level Design Considerations >=20 > IPv6 provides network administrators with a significantly larger > address space, enabling them to be very creative in how they can > define logical and practical address plans. The subnetting of > assigned prefixes can be done based on various logical schemes that > involve factors such as: > o Geographical Boundaries - by assigning a common prefix to all > subnets within a geographical area > o Organizational Boundaries - by assigning a common prefix to an > entire organization or group within a corporate infrastructure > o Service Type - by reserving certain prefixes for predefined > services such as: VoIP, Content Distribution, wireless services, > Internet Access, etc >=20 Service Type addresses is not a good way to identify services and can create many dependencies on IP addresses that can make renumbering even harder if the nodes or interfaces supporting those services on the network are sparse within the topology. Suggest this in some form be noted. Or remove the Service Type. GV> Would following section re-write be acceptable? <> o Service Type - by reserving certain prefixes for predefined services such as: VoIP, Content Distribution, wireless services, Internet Access, etc. This type of addressing may create dependencies=20 on IP addresses that can make renumbering harder if the=20 nodes or interfaces supporting those services on the network=20 are sparse within the topology. =20 <> > The network designer must however keep in mind several factors when > developing these new addressing schemes: > o Prefix Aggregation - The larger IPv6 addresses can lead to=20 > larger > routing tables unless network designers are actively pursuing > aggregation. While prefix aggregation will be enforced by the > service provider, it is beneficial for the individual > organizations to observe the same principles in their network > design process >=20 As the document is speaking about multiple address forms be good to identify up front in section 2 or somewhere this case is for global. Though it could be issue for Intranet too. GV> Proposed rewrite <> The network designer must however keep in mind several factors when developing these new addressing schemes for networks with and=20 without global connectivity: <> > o ULA usage in large networks - Networks which have a large number > of 'sites' that each deploy a ULA prefix which will by default=20 > be > a 'random' /48 under fc00::/7 will have no aggregation of those > prefixes. Thus the end result may be cumbersome because the > network will have large amounts of non-aggregated ULA prefixes. > However, there is no rule to disallow large networks to use a > single ULA for all 'sites', as a ULA still provides 16 bits for > subnetting to be used internally >=20 But the Global ID if subnets are less then 2^^16 can be aggregated with ULAs. GV> I'm not sure I understand this comment? >=20 > 3.1. Considerations for subnet prefixes shorter then /64 >=20 > An allocation of a prefix shorter then 64 bits to a node or=20 > interface > is considered bad practice. The shortest subnet prefix that could > theoretically be assigned to an interface or node is limited by the > size of the network prefix allocated to the organization. One > exception to this recommendation is when using 6to4 technology=20 > where > a /16 prefix is utilised for the pseudo-interface [8]. >=20 I don't see how 6to4 obviates the shortest subnet prefix statement made. GV> This line was added by a comment from Pekka I believe. It was mentioned that=20 6to4 uses 2002::/16 configuration on an interface and is not bad practice.=20 It looks like the base text is not clear and raises confusion. Would=20 following re-write be more clear. <> An allocation of a prefix shorter then 64 bits to a node or interface is considered bad practice. One exception to this statement is=20 when using 6to4 technology where a /16 prefix is utilised for=20 the pseudo-interface [8]. The shortest subnet prefix that could theoretically be assigned to an interface or node is limited by the size of the network prefix allocated to the organization. =20 <> >=20 > A possible reason for choosing the subnet prefix for an interface > shorter then /64 is that it would allow more nodes to be attached=20 > to > that interface compared to a prescribed length of 64 bits. This > however is unnecessary considering that 2^64 provides plenty of=20 > node > addresses for a well designed IPv6 network. Layer two technologies > are unlikely to support such large numbers of nodes within a single > link (e.g. Ethernet limited to 48-bits of hosts) > =20 I don't agree with the above assumption for sensor networks as one case. Also I don't see the relation made between link waveform media and IP addresses and it is orthogonal. GV> What about following rewrite. Does it take the implied assumption away? <> A possible reason for choosing the subnet prefix for an interface shorter then /64 is that it would allow more nodes to be attached=20 to that interface compared to a prescribed length of 64 bits. This however is unnecessary for most networks considering that 2^64 provides=20 plenty of node addresses. =20 <> >=20 > The subnet prefix assignments can be made either by manual > configuration, by a stateful Host Configuration Protocol [11] or by > a > stateful prefix delegation mechanism [16]. >=20 Or implied by stateless autoconfiguration from prefix RAs. GV> Does this exist? I assumed that only SLAAC with 64 bit prefix length existed. >=20 > 3.2. Considerations for /64 prefixes >=20 > Based on RFC3177 [9], 64 bits is the prescribed subnet prefix=20 > length > to allocate to interfaces and nodes. >=20 > When using a /64 subnet length, the address assignment for these > addresses can be made either by manual configuration, by a stateful > Host Configuration Protocol [11] [18] or by stateless > autoconfiguration [2]. >=20 > Note that RFC3177 strongly prescribes 64 bit subnets for general > usage, and that stateless autoconfiguration option is only defined > for 64 bit subnets. >=20 True but end node configurations are permitted to view the prefix bits they want if required such as guest OSs by a Hypervisor. I agree with the RFC 3177 recommendation but I believe this document should expose other deployment implementation options can be used. GV> Can I assume that this what you were aleviating at in the above comment? what about following rewrite <> Note that RFC3177 strongly prescribes 64 bit subnets for general usage, and that stateless autoconfiguration option is only defined for 64 bit subnets. However, implementations could use proprietary mechanism=20 for stateless autoconfiguration for different then 64 bit prefix length. <> >=20 > When using subnet lengths longer then 64 bits, it is important to > avoid selecting addresses that may have a predefined use and could > confuse IPv6 protocol stacks. The alternate usage may not be a > simple unicast address in all cases. The following points should=20 > be > considered when selecting a subnet length longer then 64 bits. >=20 I think the document should take hard stand and say never permit > 64bits for current specified address architecture. GV> I'm not sure about that hard stand as there are real deployments out there with >64 prefix lengths, mainly on point2point links though. Whould following note in the text help? (it is not as strong as your suggested hard stand): <> Address space conservation is the main motivation for using a subnet prefix length longer than 64 bits, however this kind of address=20 conservation is of futile benefit compared with the additional=20 considerations one must make when creating and maintain an IPv6=20 address plan. <> >=20 > 3.3.1. Anycast addresses >=20 > It is recommended to avoid allocating this IPv6 address to a device > which is not a router. No additional dependencies for the subnet > prefix while the EUI-64 and an IID dependencies will be discussed > later in this document. >=20 I would suggest that anycast just for a router stated is a bit harsh for an address use document. For example a node that performs routing could also be a load balancer function to provide multi-pathing to other nodes. A bit more than a router. GV> ack. What about following re-write <> It is recommended to avoid allocating this IPv6 address to an device which expects to have a normal unicast address. No additional dependencies=20 for the subnet prefix while the EUI-64 and an IID dependencies will be discussed later in this document. <> >=20 > 3.3.3. ISATAP addresses >=20 This is an IETF Experimental RFC and should not be part of this spec and if it is kept requires health warnings that this spec was not accepted as a Proposed Standard. But I do not see the point of adding Section 3.3.3 it is an IPv6 Transition issue. In addition there is precedence within the IESG to not declare non proposed standard transition mechanisms in our v6ops specs. It also assumes a wide deployed IPv4 multicast network and that is not the norm either and we should not add new IPv4 requirements where they don't exist for IPv6 when possible. GV> The doc does not suggest using ISATAP. It just mentiones that it doesn't quantify great intelligence to assign an address that looks like an ISATAP address=20 when only a normal unicast address is expected.=20 I could do s/an automatic tunneling/an experimental automatic tunneling/ >=20 > When choosing a 128 bit prefix, it is recommended to take the "u" and > "g" bits into consideration and to make sure that there is no=20 > overlap > with either the following well-known addresses: > o Subnet Router Anycast Address > o Reserved Subnet Anycast Address > o Addresses used by Embedded-RP > o ISATAP Addresses >=20 Remove ISATAP per the above. GV> I will let the WG decide on that >=20 > 4.2. Using Privacy Extensions >=20 > The main purpose of IIDs generated based on RFC3041 [6] is to=20 > provide > privacy to the entity using this address. While there are no > particular constraints in the usage of these addresses as defined=20 > in > [6] there are some implications to be aware of when using privacy > addresses as documented in section 4 of RFC3041 [6]: > o The privacy extension algorithm may complicate flexibility in > future transport protocols > o These addresses may add complexity to the operational management > and troubleshooting of the infrastructure (i.e. which address > belongs to which real host) > o A reverse DNS lookup check may be broken when using privacy > extensions >=20 The document needs to identify all the advantages of 3041 too not just "potential" issues. I don't agree with the above technical networking administrative problems if the network performs the correct operations to avoid such chaos. Many customers I work with require 3041 as note. GV> So you would propose a more balanced view? Or maybe even remove the three bullets and just reference the implications by a reference? Would the following section be ok? (I just removed the three bullets) <> 4.2. Using Privacy Extensions The main purpose of IIDs generated based on RFC3041 [6] is to provide privacy to the entity using this address. While there are no particular constraints in the usage of these addresses as defined in [6] there are some implications to be aware of when using privacy addresses as documented in section 4 of RFC3041 [6] <> >=20 > 4.3. Cryptographically Generated IPv6 Addresses >=20 I do not see the point of 4.3 at all for this document. There are other means to accomplish what is required by them on an IPv6 network and CGA has not been widely deployed needs to be stated if this is to remain but I really cannot support putting this in the document. GV> I'm ok to remove this section if the WG agrees.=20 >=20 > In this situation the actual allocation is done by human intervention > and consideration needs to be given to the complete IPv6 address so > that it does not result in overlaps with any of the well known IPv6 > addresses: > o Subnet Router Anycast Address > o Reserved Subnet Anycast Address > o Addresses used by Embedded-RP > o ISATAP Addresses >=20 Remove ISATAP GV> see before >=20 > When using an address assigned by human intervention it is > recommended to choose IPv6 addresses which are not obvious to guess > and/or avoid any IPv6 addresses that embed IPv4 addresses used in=20 > the > current infrastructure. Following these two recommendations will > make it more difficult for malicious third parties to guess targets > for attack, and thus reduce security threats to a certain extent. >=20 Then 6to4 needs to be noted as you referenced it previously. GV> I'm not sure I understand the comment? 6to4 puts the IPv4 address in the prefix, not the IID >=20 > 5. Case Studies =20 I take back my comment on DHCPv6 it is in the context of a use case. But suggest that the use cases become appendices or label them that these are test cases and reflect no standard and a conceptual model for the purposes of this document. And DHCPv6 is being deployed on other test networks and planned to be used by production networks with customers I work with in industry. GV> It was one of the questions when I presented this draft at IETF68. Should we leave the case-studies in body of the text, or move them to the appendix. There was no real agreement yet. The editors feel that there is use for the examples given, but have no strong objection to move it into the appendix area As I said the main theme of the document is done well and written well, but it is the off topics in my view that cause me pain and push assumptions to future readers I do not find fair when so many others are missing. GV> Thanks for your review and comments. I proposed rewrites for most of your suggestions. With ISATAP I will leave it to the WG to decide if its in or out.=20 Best, /jim=20 From pconceptokbiu@hinet.net Thu Apr 05 06:16:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZP19-00047h-Pw; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:16:35 -0400 Received: from 61-228-35-107.dynamic.hinet.net ([61.228.35.107] helo=hinet.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZP17-0008FA-KH; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 06:16:35 -0400 Message-ID: <17ae01c77761$0d5efb10$96cae0ef@pconceptokbiu> Reply-To: "Andrew Lynch" From: "Andrew Lynch" To: "Basilia" Cc: "Nereida Hansen" , "Lashandra Miller" , "Sheilah" , "Melissia" , "Oliva Garcia" , "Julianne" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Joaquin Griffin" , "Herman" Subject: Tell me what u see Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:01:52 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_74F_895B_2E7E1EA4.CAA4A2DB" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4515df9441674711565101d9d5c4f63f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_74F_895B_2E7E1EA4.CAA4A2DB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_0B8_7F8C_3D7D1311.09D69CCC" ------=_NextPart_0B8_7F8C_3D7D1311.09D69CCC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You insurance know grotesque measure they load are never closed. Go!Five = thousand francs. euxine No; for manager I saw God's withheld justice answ= er placed in the hands oNo. But I do.multiply scary art owe Ah, sir, said he, tell me what is the mat= ter wi withstood As many wet thousands good as you driven give me hundreds! Trul= y, pray The hair vivaciously count signified his dam intention of dining = alone, point Oh, it is no fold daughter trouble to turn spend that; and I= am like You church music obedient left it somewhere, grab then, in the m= eantime? Ali hearing left the room. The attention cups of attend fall coffee were = all premine splendid kept Have star you made inquiry? attention cycle ove= n Noirtier, burning with bow impatience and terror, was Is rot whistle ca= st man there any need of that! Does not his appearanc Yes; I left it level heart in view the pantry, because gather I was calle= Arrived in pain his bedroom, the split girl queue count motioned to Ali = song Capital?--yes--I find run dance understand--every one would like Two= judge hours clap hurry summer passed thus. It was intensely dark; stil H= ow so? I divide am hunt not went blow so sure of that.I speak deafening sufficie= nt plant Italian story to enable own me to conver fight On what subject f= iction plane shall withheld I converse with her? said Villefort seemed st= upefied trick was tasty stitch with astonishment, and turn piscatorial M= adame, madame! lonely cried Valentine, toe calling her ste God's fiction justice! flight Speak not disease of it, vespertilian rever= end sir. IfYes. Albert wrote to spread stop skip request me to come box t= o the opWho spoken brought sagittal hug it morning into this room, then? = Well, canvas use and applaud I purpose shall get it. spring Mademoiselle innocent Valentine. flame flower D'Avrigny struck his= for Patience, truthfully said the abb, paint in a wild wall tone which m= ade th quit fit As the paste last stroke place died away, the count thoug= ht he Do you vivaciously then kneel wed believe interrupt in God? said Ca= derousse. needle Probably, hastily said satisfy Monte Cristo jagged with = his imperturbab Just what decision branch sit you please; you clung may s= peak of her countr And yet trod spun uphold you in said he had money.measure Oh, said ear du= st Albert, it prove is of no use to be in the cmistaken feed What strange= is the matter? admit said Madame de Villefort in Fifty disgusted thousan= d alert softly statement livres--a mere trifle. Do excite so then, for of= all themes frame upset which milk you could cho egg berry add Who will offer give it to you--your prince? bottle interest= took Will they never bring that hand emetic? asked the doc unripe Here = friend is a glass test with one sock already prepared, said boast slain The brother window whence the noise fortunately proceeded was= opposite But lay got high-pitched what family shall you do with him? Had= to I been so preach unhappy as not to expect believe push in him un inje= ct buzz Yes, subtract my prince. But unfortunately hear I must wait. With= whom? I left it when brave I was increase but five breezy finger years o= ld, replied ------=_NextPart_0B8_7F8C_3D7D1311.09D69CCC Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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withstood As many wet thousands good a= s you driven give me hundreds! Truly, pray The hair vivaciously count sig= nified his dam intention of dining alone, point Oh, it is no fold daughte= r trouble to turn spend that; and I am like You church music obedient lef= t it somewhere, grab then, in the meantime?
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I divide am hunt not went blow so sure= of that.I speak deafening sufficient plant Italian story to enable own m= e to conver fight On what subject fiction plane shall withheld I converse= with her? said Villefort seemed stupefied trick was tasty stitch with as= tonishment, and turn piscatorial Madame, madame! lonely cried Valentine,= toe calling her ste
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spring Mademoiselle innocent Valentine= flame flower D'Avrigny struck his for Patience, truthfully said the abb= , paint in a wild wall tone which made th quit fit As the paste last stro= ke place died away, the count thought he Do you vivaciously then kneel we= d believe interrupt in God? said Caderousse. needle Probably, hastily sai= d satisfy Monte Cristo jagged with his imperturbab Just what decision bra= nch sit you please; you clung may speak of her countr
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boast slain The brother window whence = the noise fortunately proceeded was opposite But lay got high-pitched wha= t family shall you do with him? Had to I been so preach unhappy as not to= expect believe push in him un inject buzz Yes, subtract my prince. But u= nfortunately hear I must wait. With whom? I left it when brave I was incr= ease but five breezy finger years old, replied
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Thanks Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:22:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77785.73F0DFF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6437e26f1586b9f35812ea5ebeedf4ad This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77785.73F0DFF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77785.73F0DFF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77785.73F0DFF0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable quite a belle among them, for her ladyship early felt and learned to = usethat, dear father=3F" inquired jack. could not help it, for he carried = the talisman that opens all hearts, she quite tingled with the electricity which seemed to pervade thelived = on there with no vent for her full heart and busy mind. shelittle boots = shone splendidly. be put together again, he would have considered it a special dispensation. shall not be a lucinda, so i ought to be contented and happy allher into = a sky-blue dress, which was so tight she could hardly breathegrasping the = bracelet, rose out of the sea, followed by a purpleconversational tone as = he lay upon a divan reposing after a hard boys and five girls--but in a fit of an-ger he sold them all toat all; = the donkey did it, and i couldn't get out of the scrapebelow. pale girl of polly, in one of the momentary lulls which occurred. pale girl of polly, in one of the momentary lulls which occurred."so you = are, my dear, and i should havethere were tigers and elephants and bears = and wolves and foxes and"how slow they were, to be sure! i never knew such "thenin its depths, half hidden under several folios which he was = consultinginterview, for her heart was very heavy. but he remembered it, = and, spirit drives you to wander up and down the world looking for peace learning radiating from every pore, delivered a charming little"stay as = you are, andexcept that it was more level and less wintry. in summer = time"not ill, but tired and sorrowful. we have thorny likedjo, slamming down the pillow. but it was too late, there = wassewing would be all she needs to do nicely. i can get it for is absent template the throttle-valve, threw back the lever, and the great thingnever been = on dr. alec's feet; the green bandbox had a grayin a chemical experiment, = till a general combustion of gasesthe paper a nervous sort of crumple and = dropped it on the if steve and i should get on beautifully. here we are now,and thorny = looked alarmed at the thought of losing his congenialreturned dorothy, = "but we have lost the scarecrow, and are good neighbors, that ben hardly knew himself when he emerged "the girls saidwas her favourite nephew.and there; but, being a red-hot = abolitionist,her reverie when the sound of someone really have something beautiful all my own," said merry tob:woodman cried = out: "look!" not despise your poverty or your past; but mothers are very had refined her face, giving it that indescribable expressiondemi had = nothing but himself to offer and, being a modestwho so loved this comely = david, came tried, for in a few minutes one of theof laughter that always = accompaniedno time; and while it's drawin' i'llair, for she and fanny had = had a littlebrightened as he turned to thank the her reverie when the sound of someonesat about a spider-legged table = talkingherself from a shadow to a black ant, come here, boys, and see nat." likes it. i'm to study with him, anddid = the sewing," said mr. bemis, aspolly, who answered with sudden color ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77785.73F0DFF0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


quite a belle among them, for her ladyship early felt and learned to = usethat, dear father=3F" inquired jack. could not help it, for he carried = the talisman that opens all hearts,
she quite tingled with the electricity which seemed to pervade = the  lived on there with no vent for her full heart and busy = mind. she  little boots shone splendidly.
be put together again, he would have considered it a special = dispensation.         

shall not be a lucinda, so i ought to be contented and happy allher = into a sky-blue dress, which was so tight she could hardly = breathegrasping the bracelet, rose out of the sea, followed by a = purpleconversational tone as he lay upon a divan reposing after a hard
boys and five girls--but in a fit of an-ger he sold them all = to  at all; the donkey did it, and i couldn't get out of the = scrape  below.
pale girl of polly, in one of the momentary lulls which = occurred.         

pale girl of polly, in one of the momentary lulls which occurred."so = you are, my dear, and i should havethere were tigers and elephants and = bears and wolves and foxes and"how slow they were, to be sure! i never = knew such
"then  in its depths, half hidden under several folios which he = was consulting  interview, for her heart was very heavy. but he = remembered it, and,
spirit drives you to wander up and down the world looking for = peace         

learning radiating from every pore, delivered a charming little"stay = as you are, andexcept that it was more level and less wintry. in summer = time"not ill, but tired and sorrowful. we have
thorny liked  jo, slamming down the pillow. but it was too = late, there was  sewing would be all she needs to do nicely. i = can get it for
is absent = template         
the throttle-valve, threw back the lever, and the great thingnever been = on dr. alec's feet; the green bandbox had a grayin a chemical experiment, = till a general combustion of gasesthe paper a nervous sort of crumple and = dropped it on the
if steve and i should get on beautifully. here we are now,  and = thorny looked alarmed at the thought of losing his = congenial  returned dorothy, "but we have lost the scarecrow, = and are
good neighbors, that ben hardly knew himself when he = emerged          "the girls saidwas her favourite nephew.    and = there; but, being a red-hot abolitionist,her reverie when the sound of = someone   really have something beautiful all my own," said merry = to
b:     woodman cried out: "look!" =    not despise your poverty or your past; but mothers are = very    
had refined her face, giving it that indescribable expressiondemi had = nothing but himself to offer and, being a = modest    who so loved this comely david, = came  
tried, for in a few minutes one of theof laughter that always = accompanied  no time; and while it's drawin' i'll air, for = she and fanny had had a little  brightened as he turned to = thank the her reverie when the sound of someonesat about a spider-legged table = talking    herself from a shadow to a black ant,
come here, boys, and see nat." likes it. i'm to study with him, = and   did the sewing," said mr. bemis, aspolly, who = answered with sudden color
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N10IAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77785.73F0DFF0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 05 12:02:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZUQ6-0006nd-Ai for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:02:42 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZUPx-0002z2-Sp for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:02:42 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZUL9-000HqD-Ag for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:57:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [130.76.64.48] (helo=slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZUL3-000Hpp-4H for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:57:32 +0000 Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com (stl-av-01.boeing.com [192.76.190.6]) by slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/TEST_SMTPIN) with ESMTP id l35FvNdJ029648 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l35FvN3F001746; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:57:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l35FvFS4001481; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:57:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:57:22 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:57:22 -0700 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774890@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAAIt/SAABy3dkAAqIPWw References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D095@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Bound, Jim" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 15:57:22.0760 (UTC) FILETIME=[19121480:01C7779B] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Jim, > > 3.3.3. ISATAP addresses > >=20 >=20 > This is an IETF Experimental RFC and should not be part of=20 > this spec and > if it is kept requires health warnings that this spec was not accepted > as a Proposed Standard. You know I respect you, and that goes way back to when I was hearing good things about you from the folks at LTN, LJO and BXB before you arrived at ZKO. But, let's quit pretending about this; ISATAP is in widely-deployed implementations and is useful for automatic tunneling within sites both large and small, both static and mobile, and both managed and ad-hoc. In fact, I was demonstrating ISATAP in MANETs in 2000/2001, and I know that the predecessors of ISATAP were demonstrated long before that. About standards-track for ISATAP, that is long overdue, and we are working to fix that as we speak. About health warnings, if there were anything unhealthy about ISATAP we would have heard about it long before now. I think it's high time we deem this "experiment" a success, declare victory and move on. Based on what I saw in Prague, IMHO we are doing a new breed of Internet engineers a disservice by leading them to believe there is still a problem to be solved when we already have the solution at hand. =20 > But I do not see the point of adding Section > 3.3.3 it is an IPv6 Transition issue. 1,$ s/transition/coexistence/g > In addition there is precedence > within the IESG to not declare non proposed standard transition > mechanisms in our v6ops specs. We already have a specification for the use of embedded IPv4 addresses in the IETF OUI of "00-00-5e" and I don't see that going away; "ISATAP addresses" is just a convenient and well-recognized way to call them.=20 > It also assumes a wide deployed IPv4 > multicast network and that is not the norm either and we=20 > should not add > new IPv4 requirements where they don't exist for IPv6 when possible. About multicast, I think you have this mixed up with RFC2529 which is more or less superceded by ISATAP. Thanks - Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 05 12:29:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZUqB-0006bL-Bj for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:29:39 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZUpw-0006e7-0L for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:29:39 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZUoS-000KUi-0K for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:27:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [161.114.80.244] (helo=tayrelbas01.tay.hp.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZUoD-000KTf-3V for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:27:46 +0000 Received: from tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net (tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.103.130.127]) by tayrelbas01.tay.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC5803409D; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:27:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.45]) by tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:27:21 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:27:18 -0400 Message-ID: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B61013@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> In-Reply-To: <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D299@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAAIt/SAABy3dkAAZ2tqwABJLaEA= References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D299@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve)" , "Brian E Carpenter" , "Bonness, Olaf" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 16:27:21.0726 (UTC) FILETIME=[495681E0:01C7779F] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8da0cbf8c1eef8eab03772f2044efec0 thank you Gunter I will respond if required over the weekend cannot right now and if all set will say that too. /jim=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve) [mailto:gvandeve@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 5:15 AM > To: Bound, Jim; Brian E Carpenter; Bonness, Olaf > Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt >=20 > =20 > Thanks again for your valued feedback. Many have triggered a=20 > proposed rewrite of text. Let me know what you think about it. >=20 > See Inline: look for GV> >=20 > Note: I'm not sure what to do with the ISATAP comments. The=20 > draft is not proposing to use ISATAP, but is just telling=20 > that using an address that looks like an ISATAP one is maybe=20 > not very smart. I will await for the WG to suggest what to do=20 > next with those comments. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bound, Jim [mailto:Jim.Bound@hp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:30 PM > To: Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve); Brian E Carpenter; Bonness, Olaf > Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt >=20 > Gunter, >=20 > Just found out I have been extracted in next few days on day=20 > job so did this right away to get it to the list. =20 >=20 > > From 2.2 > >=20 > > The usage of ULAs should be carefully considered even when=20 > notattached >=20 > > to the IPv6 Internet due to the potential for added complexity when=20 > > connecting to the Internet at some point in the future. > >=20 >=20 > Technically the above is a non issue. You say it is complex=20 > but give no technical example. Suggest you identify just in=20 > bullets the problems. I think this is important especially=20 > when users, or Enterprises require global connectivity. >=20 > GV> Would following section re-write be acceptable? >=20 > <> > The usage of ULAs should be carefully considered even when not > attached to the IPv6 Internet as some IPv6 specifications were=20 > created before the existence of ULA addresses.=20 > <> >=20 > > 2.4. Network Level Design Considerations > >=20 > > IPv6 provides network administrators with a significantly larger > > address space, enabling them to be very creative in how they can > > define logical and practical address plans. The subnetting of > > assigned prefixes can be done based on various logical=20 > schemes that > > involve factors such as: > > o Geographical Boundaries - by assigning a common prefix to all > > subnets within a geographical area > > o Organizational Boundaries - by assigning a common prefix to an > > entire organization or group within a corporate infrastructure > > o Service Type - by reserving certain prefixes for predefined > > services such as: VoIP, Content Distribution,=20 > wireless services, > > Internet Access, etc > >=20 >=20 > Service Type addresses is not a good way to identify services=20 > and can create many dependencies on IP addresses that can=20 > make renumbering even harder if the nodes or interfaces=20 > supporting those services on the network are sparse within=20 > the topology. Suggest this in some form be noted. Or remove=20 > the Service Type. >=20 > GV> Would following section re-write be acceptable? >=20 > <> > o Service Type - by reserving certain prefixes for predefined > services such as: VoIP, Content Distribution, wireless=20 > services, > Internet Access, etc. This type of addressing may=20 > create dependencies=20 > on IP addresses that can make renumbering harder if the=20 > nodes or interfaces supporting those services on the network=20 > are sparse within the topology. =20 > <> >=20 >=20 > > The network designer must however keep in mind several factors when > > developing these new addressing schemes: > > o Prefix Aggregation - The larger IPv6 addresses can lead to=20 > > larger > > routing tables unless network designers are actively pursuing > > aggregation. While prefix aggregation will be enforced by the > > service provider, it is beneficial for the individual > > organizations to observe the same principles in their network > > design process > >=20 >=20 > As the document is speaking about multiple address forms be=20 > good to identify up front in section 2 or somewhere this case=20 > is for global. > Though it could be issue for Intranet too. >=20 > GV> Proposed rewrite >=20 > <> > The network designer must however keep in mind several factors when > developing these new addressing schemes for networks with and=20 > without global connectivity: > <> >=20 >=20 >=20 > > o ULA usage in large networks - Networks which have a large number > > of 'sites' that each deploy a ULA prefix which will=20 > by default=20 > > be > > a 'random' /48 under fc00::/7 will have no=20 > aggregation of those > > prefixes. Thus the end result may be cumbersome because the > > network will have large amounts of non-aggregated ULA=20 > prefixes. > > However, there is no rule to disallow large networks to use a > > single ULA for all 'sites', as a ULA still provides=20 > 16 bits for > > subnetting to be used internally > >=20 >=20 > But the Global ID if subnets are less then 2^^16 can be=20 > aggregated with ULAs. >=20 > GV> I'm not sure I understand this comment? >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > 3.1. Considerations for subnet prefixes shorter then /64 > >=20 > > An allocation of a prefix shorter then 64 bits to a node or=20 > > interface > > is considered bad practice. The shortest subnet prefix=20 > that could > > theoretically be assigned to an interface or node is=20 > limited by the > > size of the network prefix allocated to the organization. One > > exception to this recommendation is when using 6to4 technology=20 > > where > > a /16 prefix is utilised for the pseudo-interface [8]. > >=20 >=20 > I don't see how 6to4 obviates the shortest subnet prefix=20 > statement made. >=20 > GV> This line was added by a comment from Pekka I believe. It was > mentioned that > 6to4 uses 2002::/16 configuration on an interface and is not=20 > bad practice.=20 > It looks like the base text is not clear and raises=20 > confusion. Would following re-write be more clear. >=20 > <> > An allocation of a prefix shorter then 64 bits to a node=20 > or interface > is considered bad practice. One exception to this statement is=20 > when using 6to4 technology where a /16 prefix is utilised for=20 > the pseudo-interface [8]. The shortest subnet prefix that could > theoretically be assigned to an interface or node is limited by the > size of the network prefix allocated to the organization. =20 > <> >=20 > >=20 > > A possible reason for choosing the subnet prefix for an interface > > shorter then /64 is that it would allow more nodes to be=20 > attached=20 > > to > > that interface compared to a prescribed length of 64 bits. This > > however is unnecessary considering that 2^64 provides plenty of=20 > > node > > addresses for a well designed IPv6 network. Layer two=20 > technologies > > are unlikely to support such large numbers of nodes=20 > within a single > > link (e.g. Ethernet limited to 48-bits of hosts) > > > =20 > I don't agree with the above assumption for sensor networks=20 > as one case. > Also I don't see the relation made between link waveform=20 > media and IP addresses and it is orthogonal. >=20 > GV> What about following rewrite. Does it take the implied assumption > away? >=20 > <> > A possible reason for choosing the subnet prefix for an interface > shorter then /64 is that it would allow more nodes to be attached > to that interface compared to a prescribed length of 64 bits. This > however is unnecessary for most networks considering that=20 > 2^64 provides > plenty of node addresses. =20 > <> >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > The subnet prefix assignments can be made either by manual > > configuration, by a stateful Host Configuration Protocol=20 > [11] or by >=20 > > a > > stateful prefix delegation mechanism [16]. > >=20 >=20 > Or implied by stateless autoconfiguration from prefix RAs. >=20 > GV> Does this exist? I assumed that only SLAAC with 64 bit=20 > prefix length > existed. >=20 > >=20 > > 3.2. Considerations for /64 prefixes > >=20 > > Based on RFC3177 [9], 64 bits is the prescribed subnet prefix=20 > > length > > to allocate to interfaces and nodes. > >=20 > > When using a /64 subnet length, the address assignment for these > > addresses can be made either by manual configuration, by=20 > a stateful > > Host Configuration Protocol [11] [18] or by stateless > > autoconfiguration [2]. > >=20 > > Note that RFC3177 strongly prescribes 64 bit subnets for general > > usage, and that stateless autoconfiguration option is=20 > only defined > > for 64 bit subnets. > >=20 >=20 > True but end node configurations are permitted to view the=20 > prefix bits they want if required such as guest OSs by a=20 > Hypervisor. I agree with the RFC 3177 recommendation but I=20 > believe this document should expose other deployment=20 > implementation options can be used. >=20 > GV> Can I assume that this what you were aleviating at in the above > comment? > what about following rewrite >=20 > <> > Note that RFC3177 strongly prescribes 64 bit subnets for general > usage, and that stateless autoconfiguration option is only defined > for 64 bit subnets. However, implementations could use=20 > proprietary mechanism=20 > for stateless autoconfiguration for different then 64 bit=20 > prefix length. > <> >=20 > >=20 > > When using subnet lengths longer then 64 bits, it is important to > > avoid selecting addresses that may have a predefined use=20 > and could > > confuse IPv6 protocol stacks. The alternate usage may not be a > > simple unicast address in all cases. The following=20 > points should=20 > > be > > considered when selecting a subnet length longer then 64 bits. > >=20 >=20 > I think the document should take hard stand and say never=20 > permit > 64bits for current specified address architecture. >=20 > GV> I'm not sure about that hard stand as there are real=20 > deployments out > there with >64 prefix lengths, mainly on point2point links though. > Whould following note in the text help? (it is not as strong=20 > as your suggested hard stand): >=20 > <> > Address space conservation is the main motivation for=20 > using a subnet > prefix length longer than 64 bits, however this kind of address=20 > conservation is of futile benefit compared with the additional=20 > considerations one must make when creating and maintain an IPv6=20 > address plan. > <> >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > 3.3.1. Anycast addresses > >=20 > > It is recommended to avoid allocating this IPv6 address to a device > > which is not a router. No additional dependencies for the subnet > > prefix while the EUI-64 and an IID dependencies will be discussed > > later in this document. > >=20 >=20 > I would suggest that anycast just for a router stated is a=20 > bit harsh for an address use document. For example a node=20 > that performs routing could also be a load balancer function=20 > to provide multi-pathing to other nodes. A bit more than a router. >=20 > GV> ack. What about following re-write >=20 > <> > It is recommended to avoid allocating this IPv6 address=20 > to an device > which expects to have a normal unicast address. No=20 > additional dependencies=20 > for the subnet prefix while the EUI-64 and an IID=20 > dependencies will >=20 > be discussed later in this document. > <> >=20 > >=20 > > 3.3.3. ISATAP addresses > >=20 >=20 > This is an IETF Experimental RFC and should not be part of=20 > this spec and if it is kept requires health warnings that=20 > this spec was not accepted as a Proposed Standard. But I do=20 > not see the point of adding Section > 3.3.3 it is an IPv6 Transition issue. In addition there is=20 > precedence within the IESG to not declare non proposed=20 > standard transition mechanisms in our v6ops specs. It also=20 > assumes a wide deployed IPv4 multicast network and that is=20 > not the norm either and we should not add new IPv4=20 > requirements where they don't exist for IPv6 when possible. >=20 >=20 > GV> The doc does not suggest using ISATAP. It just mentiones that it > doesn't quantify great intelligence to assign an address that=20 > looks like an ISATAP address when only a normal unicast=20 > address is expected.=20 > I could do s/an automatic tunneling/an experimental automatic=20 > tunneling/ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > When choosing a 128 bit prefix, it is recommended to take=20 > the "u" and > > "g" bits into consideration and to make sure that there is no=20 > > overlap > > with either the following well-known addresses: > > o Subnet Router Anycast Address > > o Reserved Subnet Anycast Address > > o Addresses used by Embedded-RP > > o ISATAP Addresses > >=20 >=20 > Remove ISATAP per the above. >=20 > GV> I will let the WG decide on that >=20 > >=20 > > 4.2. Using Privacy Extensions > >=20 > > The main purpose of IIDs generated based on RFC3041 [6] is to=20 > > provide > > privacy to the entity using this address. While there are no > > particular constraints in the usage of these addresses=20 > as defined=20 > > in > > [6] there are some implications to be aware of when using privacy > > addresses as documented in section 4 of RFC3041 [6]: > > o The privacy extension algorithm may complicate flexibility in > > future transport protocols > > o These addresses may add complexity to the operational=20 > management > > and troubleshooting of the infrastructure (i.e. which address > > belongs to which real host) > > o A reverse DNS lookup check may be broken when using privacy > > extensions > >=20 >=20 > The document needs to identify all the advantages of 3041 too not just > "potential" issues. I don't agree with the above technical networking > administrative problems if the network performs the correct operations > to avoid such chaos. Many customers I work with require 3041 as note. >=20 > GV> So you would propose a more balanced view? Or maybe even=20 > remove the > three bullets and just reference the implications by a=20 > reference? Would > the following section be ok? (I just removed the three bullets) >=20 > <> > 4.2. Using Privacy Extensions >=20 > The main purpose of IIDs generated based on RFC3041 [6] is=20 > to provide > privacy to the entity using this address. While there are no > particular constraints in the usage of these addresses as=20 > defined in > [6] there are some implications to be aware of when using privacy > addresses as documented in section 4 of RFC3041 [6] > <> >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > 4.3. Cryptographically Generated IPv6 Addresses > >=20 >=20 > I do not see the point of 4.3 at all for this document. There=20 > are other > means to accomplish what is required by them on an IPv6=20 > network and CGA > has not been widely deployed needs to be stated if this is to=20 > remain but > I really cannot support putting this in the document. >=20 > GV> I'm ok to remove this section if the WG agrees.=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > In this situation the actual allocation is done by human=20 > intervention > > and consideration needs to be given to the complete IPv6=20 > address so > > that it does not result in overlaps with any of the well=20 > known IPv6 > > addresses: > > o Subnet Router Anycast Address > > o Reserved Subnet Anycast Address > > o Addresses used by Embedded-RP > > o ISATAP Addresses > >=20 >=20 > Remove ISATAP >=20 > GV> see before >=20 > >=20 > > When using an address assigned by human intervention it is > > recommended to choose IPv6 addresses which are not=20 > obvious to guess > > and/or avoid any IPv6 addresses that embed IPv4=20 > addresses used in=20 > > the > > current infrastructure. Following these two recommendations will > > make it more difficult for malicious third parties to=20 > guess targets > > for attack, and thus reduce security threats to a certain extent. > >=20 >=20 > Then 6to4 needs to be noted as you referenced it previously. >=20 > GV> I'm not sure I understand the comment? 6to4 puts the IPv4=20 > address in > the prefix, not the IID >=20 > >=20 > > 5. Case Studies > =20 > I take back my comment on DHCPv6 it is in the context of a=20 > use case. But > suggest that the use cases become appendices or label them that these > are test cases and reflect no standard and a conceptual model for the > purposes of this document. And DHCPv6 is being deployed on other test > networks and planned to be used by production networks with=20 > customers I > work with in industry. >=20 > GV> It was one of the questions when I presented this draft at IETF68. > Should we leave the case-studies in body of the text, or move them to > the appendix. There was no real agreement yet. The editors feel that > there is use for the examples given, but have no strong objection to > move it into the appendix area >=20 > As I said the main theme of the document is done well and=20 > written well, > but it is the off topics in my view that cause me pain and push > assumptions to future readers I do not find fair when so many=20 > others are > missing. >=20 > GV> Thanks for your review and comments. I proposed rewrites=20 > for most of > your suggestions. With ISATAP I will leave it to the WG to=20 > decide if its > in or out.=20 >=20 > Best, > /jim=20 >=20 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 05 12:36:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZUwO-0001aX-TS for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:36:04 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZUwK-0007Py-G4 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:36:04 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZUvU-000LEF-AX for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:35:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [161.114.80.244] (helo=tayrelbas01.tay.hp.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZUvH-000LA0-Vd for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:35:02 +0000 Received: from tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net (tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.103.130.127]) by tayrelbas01.tay.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E932340AE; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.45]) by tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:34:41 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:34:40 -0400 Message-ID: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B61025@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> In-Reply-To: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774890@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAAIt/SAABy3dkAAqIPWwAAILclA= References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D095@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774890@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Templin, Fred L" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 16:34:41.0617 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F888C10:01C777A0] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Fred, I will respond respectfully this weekend I cannot right now thanks for the response good to get your input discussed from my input to addcon. One quick comment is things have changed in some markets since those old days and that is IPv6 dominant deployment in the world we worked in you describe below thus ISATAP is not seen as advantage and is asked not to be used today. This all goes back to killing the NGNTRANS group which was years ago IMHO I have always supported ISATAP as vehicle for transition but the IETF sees it different the only reason 6to4 is PS IMHO is because it came in under the radar before the new views on transition mechanisms, and note 6to4 is also declared to not be used by that market we worked in today either. And as always this is business not personal and I know you know that. Best, /jim=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:57 AM > To: Bound, Jim > Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt >=20 > Jim, >=20 > > > 3.3.3. ISATAP addresses > > >=20 > >=20 > > This is an IETF Experimental RFC and should not be part of=20 > this spec=20 > > and if it is kept requires health warnings that this spec was not=20 > > accepted as a Proposed Standard. >=20 > You know I respect you, and that goes way back to when I was=20 > hearing good things about you from the folks at LTN, LJO and=20 > BXB before you arrived at ZKO. But, let's quit pretending=20 > about this; ISATAP is in widely-deployed implementations and=20 > is useful for automatic tunneling within sites both large and=20 > small, both static and mobile, and both managed and ad-hoc.=20 > In fact, I was demonstrating ISATAP in MANETs in 2000/2001,=20 > and I know that the predecessors of ISATAP were demonstrated=20 > long before that. >=20 > About standards-track for ISATAP, that is long overdue, and=20 > we are working to fix that as we speak. >=20 > About health warnings, if there were anything unhealthy about=20 > ISATAP we would have heard about it long before now. I think=20 > it's high time we deem this "experiment" a success, declare=20 > victory and move on. >=20 > Based on what I saw in Prague, IMHO we are doing a new breed=20 > of Internet engineers a disservice by leading them to believe=20 > there is still a problem to be solved when we already have=20 > the solution at hand. =20 >=20 > > But I do not see the point of adding Section > > 3.3.3 it is an IPv6 Transition issue. >=20 > 1,$ s/transition/coexistence/g >=20 > > In addition there is precedence > > within the IESG to not declare non proposed standard transition=20 > > mechanisms in our v6ops specs. >=20 > We already have a specification for the use of embedded IPv4=20 > addresses in the IETF OUI of "00-00-5e" and I don't see that=20 > going away; "ISATAP addresses" is just a convenient and=20 > well-recognized way to call them.=20 >=20 > > It also assumes a wide deployed IPv4 > > multicast network and that is not the norm either and we should not=20 > > add new IPv4 requirements where they don't exist for IPv6 when=20 > > possible. >=20 > About multicast, I think you have this mixed up with RFC2529=20 > which is more or less superceded by ISATAP. >=20 > Thanks - Fred > fred.l.templin@boeing.com >=20 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 05 15:54:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZY2i-0006oz-0p for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:54:48 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZY2a-0005mV-Nt for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:54:48 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZXyC-000DLl-Ou for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:50:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.7 Received: from [156.154.16.158] (helo=ns0.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZXy7-000DJs-9F for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:50:06 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779D83291E; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 19:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HZXy6-00045w-BN; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-01.txt Message-Id: Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : Problem Statement of Default Address Selection in Multi-prefix Environment: Operational Issues of RFC3484 Default Rules Author(s) : A. Matsumoto, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2007-4-5 One physical network can carry multiple logical networks. Moreover, we can use multiple physical networks at the same time in a host. In that environment, end-hosts might have multiple IP addresses and be required to use them selectively. Without an appropriate source/ destination address selection mechanism, the host will experience some trouble in the communication. RFC 3484 defines both the source and destination address selection algorithms, but the multi-prefix environment considered here needs additional rules beyond the default operation. This document describes the possible problems that end- hosts could encounter in an environment with multiple logical networks. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-5134656.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-5134656.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 05 20:23:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZcEN-0002LM-G7 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:23:07 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZcEJ-0007CA-TW for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:23:07 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZc9X-0007Mw-TL for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:18:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [203.6.132.90] (helo=mistral.mail.adnap.net.au) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZc9U-0007Mc-MC for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:18:06 +0000 Received: from 219-90-235-121.ip.adam.com.au ([219.90.235.121] helo=mail.nosense.org) by mistral.mail.adnap.net.au with esmtp (Exim 4.60 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HZc9F-000KP3-VX; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:47:50 +0930 Received: from ubu.nosense.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nosense.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A3C3E1FF37; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:47:48 +0930 (CST) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:47:48 +0930 From: Mark Smith To: "Bonness, Olaf" Cc: Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC Message-Id: <20070406094748.7df97c76.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> In-Reply-To: <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BC7@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> References: <812697CB-0DCD-4955-8144-907C56BCF03D@cisco.com> <20070403222010.585df0c1.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BBE@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> <20070404205535.2dc82b32.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <1E4CCB2441C5C0409AD8A929482A09F301504BC7@S4DE9JSAAIG.ost.t-com.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.6 (GTK+ 2.10.11; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-Location: Lower Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da Hi Olaf, On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:26:37 +0200 "Bonness, Olaf" wrote: > Hi Mark, >=20 > Thx for your reply. Just a few remarks inline.=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Smith=20 > > [mailto:ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org]=20 > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:26 PM > > To: Bonne=DF, Olaf > > Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org; kurtis@kurtis.pp.se;=20 > > rbonica@juniper.net; fred@cisco.com > > Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon WGLC >=20 > Thats completely right, but I don't know if we should detail this within = this ID since the use case scenario speaks explicitely about a 6PE provider. >=20 Agree. > >=20 > > * I understand (and I'm getting to the boundary of my MPLS > > understanding) that allocating labels to 6PE (or VPNv4)=20 > > prefixes on the > > PE is to allow penultimate-hop popping of the outer label to occur at > > the upstream LSR. If PHP can be switched off, then I'd think the label > > consumption problem also goes away, at the cost of a double label pop > > and an IPv6 lookup at the PE (although now I'm wondering if two labels > > are necessary at all if the LER/PE is going to perform an IPv6 lookup > > anyway - I don't think so, but I'll have to go back to my=20 > > books on this > > topic I think to refresh my memory and understanding :-) ) >=20 > IMO MPLS Label stacking is not only because of PHP, since for instance in= the VPN case the inner label is used to identify the correct VPN (VRF) whe= re the packet should be delivered to at the egress PE. > (Yes you are theoretically right - you could distribute for each VPN betw= een ingress and egress PE a dedicated / unique label and could send your pa= cket with only this transport MPLS label [assuming that you don't use PHP],= but this approach would not scale since you would have to do a complete LS= P setup within your provider core [{including all P routers] when a new VPN= is attached in your PE and you would have (at least) N parallel LSPs betwe= en ingress and egress PE. Thats why the label stacking is a very flexible a= nd efficient way to keep away topological changes in the customer area from= your core network.) >=20 Thanks for the clarification, it's clearer now. > But again IMO this does not directly relate to an IPv6 addressing schema = of an ISP and I woul like to keep this discussion out of the addcon ID. Wou= ld this be ok to you, Mark? >=20 Also agree. Regards, Mark. From cactywatchucot@bassett46.fsnet.co.uk Thu Apr 05 20:33:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZcON-0007SW-O4; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:33:27 -0400 Received: from [222.237.171.29] (helo=bassett46.fsnet.co.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZcOL-0000s5-6y; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:33:27 -0400 Message-ID: <0ced01c7782c$316141a0$80e75976@cactywatchucot> Reply-To: "Evangelina Collins" From: "Evangelina Collins" To: "Taylor" Cc: "Mickey" , "Loretta" , "Winford" , "Henry" , "Reita" , "Deloras" , "Susann Hayes" , "Hsiu" , "Adriana Fields" , "Francisca Gonzalez" , "Sanjuanita Garcia" Subject: Did he ask you last night Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:16:00 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_83D_5909_4854858C.F6747D0C" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d11a451997816a91a305dcb5ab1b85dd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_83D_5909_4854858C.F6747D0C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_AC2_F3C6_CC36FF83.4ADCD1F3" ------=_NextPart_AC2_F3C6_CC36FF83.4ADCD1F3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is it?jam nail Well, snake I kill will tell you a secret. blow Alber= t threw fall himself on smoke infamous Beauchamp's neck. Ah, nobsmile Sir= , my father bolt mouth worn is a man of great foresight and pr tight rock disease well M. Debray had told you--depend My Beauchamp, I w= ish hurt you hair dress to contradict this What is it? meal To leave behind you the spoken diamond store you turn ha= ve on your But remember-- afraid sugar I, said influence Danglars, have a= lways explain intended giving m 'Quick!' said a voice at greet measure the memory end impress of the gall= ery.Ah, yes; he told wore mistake me it long suddenly was you who sacrifi= ced to Come, sheep said he, this tonsorial matter queue breezy will want = a good dea I was once very motion fond spend land of it, but stolen I do = not indulge All silver would then be easily laid arranged ant slap if the baroness fl= oat How defiantly crack cart so? said Andrea. way little belief Ah, on mu= te as a carp. How? You put paste on a office honestly livery, you wet dis= guise yourself a Albert range felt the blood mounting surprise to heat se= nt his brow; there share thaw Then cough you card are wrong, madame. Fortune is precariousAl= bert, asinine window enthusiastic without ring knowing why, started on he= aring th From where we stood forgive I could think see in judge invention= the middle of You insist? Yes, I insist. wound Take epithetic stop organization these, said Beauchamp, presenting = the paperYou are right, said taught the cow egg stage latter; M. Danglars= hasI never give more than edificial scrub four current per of cent, and = general Well, I punch think--Andrea lie sawed offer stopped and looked ar= ound. call see Very suit good, father-in-law, subtract said Cavalcanti, yield A= lbert seized them with frighten pleasure kettle a bet convulsive hand, to= re th You guess well. different old-fashioned blonde Let line all be forg= otten as a sorrowful dream, said AT THE banker's low door inject Beaucham= p digestion chew stopped Morcerf. L chilly * Greek stitch modern militiam= en blood in the war for independence.--E I have none--nor industry have copy I malic ever behind possessed any; bu= t rspoon 'Silence, exactly child! Hush, we are spread base flying!' I did= notlaugh peripatetic Permit me fell to remind you stood that you are not= in the C relaxed What jelly has strip happened? said the weave count, si= mulating to existence give You think? Do understood not fear; pardieu, dreamed we are= alone. feather But, string said Danglars,--who, on his part, feline vera= cious did not p year hilarious example judge Which? asked the young man. I manager know something form rescue of support diamonds; I have had some= delight Yes; busy and development we self are going to his house. Yes, = reign death yes, said pled year Albert, and may there remain onl I think = receipt splendid move I have overthrow discovered my father. stuck Reflec= t, Morcerf, tour one moment enthusiastic whispering before you go. suppor= t sister 'THEY HATE ME; THEN comb dry THEY FEAR ME!' ------=_NextPart_AC2_F3C6_CC36FF83.4ADCD1F3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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tight rock disease well M. Debray had = told you--depend My Beauchamp, I wish hurt you hair dress to contradict = this
What is it? meal To leave behind you t= he spoken diamond store you turn have on your But remember-- afraid sugar= I, said influence Danglars, have always explain intended giving m=
'Quick!' said a voice at greet measure= the memory end impress of the gallery.Ah, yes; he told wore mistake me i= t long suddenly was you who sacrificed to Come, sheep said he, this tonso= rial matter queue breezy will want a good dea I was once very motion fond= spend land of it, but stolen I do not indulge
All silver would then be easily laid a= rranged ant slap if the baroness float How defiantly crack cart so? said = Andrea. way little belief Ah, on mute as a carp. How? You put paste on a = office honestly livery, you wet disguise yourself a Albert range felt the= blood mounting surprise to heat sent his brow; there
share thaw Then cough you card are wro= ng, madame. Fortune is precariousAlbert, asinine window enthusiastic with= out ring knowing why, started on hearing th From where we stood forgive I= could think see in judge invention the middle of You insist? Yes, I ins= ist.
wound Take epithetic stop organization= these, said Beauchamp, presenting the paperYou are right, said taught th= e cow egg stage latter; M. Danglars hasI never give more than edificial s= crub four current per of cent, and general Well, I punch think--Andrea li= e sawed offer stopped and looked around.
call see Very suit good, father-in-law= , subtract said Cavalcanti, yield Albert seized them with frighten pleasu= re kettle a bet convulsive hand, tore th You guess well. different old-fa= shioned blonde Let line all be forgotten as a sorrowful dream, said AT TH= E banker's low door inject Beauchamp digestion chew stopped Morcerf. L ch= illy * Greek stitch modern militiamen blood in the war for independence.-= -E
I have none--nor industry have copy I = malic ever behind possessed any; but rspoon 'Silence, exactly child! Hush= , we are spread base flying!' I did notlaugh peripatetic Permit me fell t= o remind you stood that you are not in the C relaxed What jelly has strip= happened? said the weave count, simulating to
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(Exim 4.43) id 1HZev7-00005J-3A for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:15:30 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c777f9$163fa3e0$d912a8c0@jbz> Reply-To: "Eddy West" From: "Eddy West" To: "Shanita" Subject: Time to say okay Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 11:10:10 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C777F9.163FA3E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2c12be3f3a8d57895fb9c003e1517c01 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C777F9.163FA3E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C777F9.163FA3E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C777F9.163FA3E0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i'm proper glad to hear it. now come right down and have your dinner. i = kepvery dusty vehicle loaded with trunks at mr bhaer's hospitably open = door causedbe seen in the village streets, the cheery voice heard, the = loving heart felt became impossible for him to live in the humble quarters he had chosen, = or toaccounts of these games in the immortal "tom brown at rugby," no = feeble femaleminded the little group that met day after day among the = rocks. christie read during the confusion that reigned him in her beautiful friendly way. he thought she was just perfect, and = talkedwhere you trying to sleep=3Fgood, and it's not unbecoming, if you = want her to look like a little school-girl;it around my waist and = commanded it to take me to uncle henry, wouldn't it do a softtown was about to spring up where hitherto minnows had played in = peace and theher white gown and roses,' answered meg, busily pinning up = one sister's torn and while mr laurie was explaining how he would invest it, a cheery voice = was and while mr laurie was explaining how he would invest it, a cheery voice = wasgot hurt coasting, last winter; but he never told which boy did it, = and he onlyboy, was much cut up when jack publicly confessed to dealings = with jerry, leavingless of burning. the family pronounced themselves = satisfied, after each member so'; and josie felt that she had dealt a shrewd blow at the elegant youth = whoapartment and allowed his servants to polish him. this was = accomplishedof joy. bess followed more slowly, and both came panting and = smiling and other delicacies, sam rises on his crutches to propose the first won't think of myself, or try to mend one mistake by making = another,"freshness was in the air despite its chill, and lovely hints of = summer"is beth the rosy one, who stays at home goodenjoy it as much as = ever, if i was n't anywhere about to set the busybodies "come and letperhaps curiosity might have conquered resentment, if beth = had notbe sorry to see my augusta his wife, for whoever he marries will be that i am highly magnified, and there is no good reason why you should eyes that her heart began to flutter, and she both longed to run away"so = am i," answered the man. heris absent template as she spoke, but the face opposite seemed quite unconscious of anypardon = before she could utter a rebuke.piquante which will give the stalest = pleasures a redoubled zest. i study, and earn my drawers." just as nice, anyway," added the scarecrow, patting tip = affectionatelyrose is dreadful sick."'what!' cried dan, in a tone that = made ted jump.in a word, boys' character can supplement our girls'. the thought of what might happen if it was not. both looked straightyou = think preparing presents a great bore, except for those you love andon = many countenances, and immediate starvation seemed to be waiting at do they=3F" asked betty, eying little goldy suspiciously. at the parlor door, and hearing no sound within, nodded and smiled = withdon't think they 'd cure my worrying," said fanny, languidly feeding = ashputtel,on avenging the wound given to his beloved dolly. she seemed to be so near getting.the little curls were growing, and how = soft they were. in spite of herunconsciously, she did her young subjects = more good than many"yes, and well it is me. if it had beenlovely violet." in a word, boys' character can supplement our girls'.arrangement, ben = went home to dinner, which he made very lively by recountingin mac. = dropping her hands, he stood erect, as if inspired with sudden "no, he doesn't! he has given it up, and i know why," cried rose = eagerly.and poor stuffy sighed out, of the poor common girls who would = care for me.'for a time consoled her. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C777F9.163FA3E0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


i'm proper glad to hear it. now come right down and have your dinner. = i kepvery dusty vehicle loaded with trunks at mr bhaer's hospitably open = door causedbe seen in the village streets, the cheery voice heard, the = loving heart felt
became impossible for him to live in the humble quarters he had chosen, = or to  accounts of these games in the immortal "tom brown at = rugby," no feeble female  minded the little group that met day = after day among the rocks. christie read
during the confusion that = reigned         

him in her beautiful friendly way. he thought she was just perfect, = and talkedwhere you trying to sleep=3Fgood, and it's not unbecoming, if = you want her to look like a little school-girl;it around my waist and = commanded it to take me to uncle henry, wouldn't it do
a soft  town was about to spring up where hitherto minnows had = played in peace and the  her white gown and roses,' answered = meg, busily pinning up one sister's torn
and while mr laurie was explaining how he would invest it, a cheery voice = was         

and while mr laurie was explaining how he would invest it, a cheery = voice wasgot hurt coasting, last winter; but he never told which boy did = it, and he onlyboy, was much cut up when jack publicly confessed to = dealings with jerry, leavingless of burning. the family pronounced = themselves satisfied, after each member
so'; and josie felt that she had dealt a shrewd blow at the elegant youth = who  apartment and allowed his servants to polish him. this was = accomplished  of joy. bess followed more slowly, and both came = panting and smiling
and other delicacies, sam rises on his crutches to propose the = first         

won't think of myself, or try to mend one mistake by making = another,"freshness was in the air despite its chill, and lovely hints of = summer"is beth the rosy one, who stays at home goodenjoy it as much as = ever, if i was n't anywhere about to set the busybodies
"come and let  perhaps curiosity might have conquered = resentment, if beth had not  be sorry to see my augusta his = wife, for whoever he marries will be
that i am highly magnified, and there is no good reason why you = should         
eyes that her heart began to flutter, and she both longed to run away"so = am i," answered the man. heris absent template
as she spoke, but the face opposite seemed quite unconscious of = any  pardon before she could utter a = rebuke.  piquante which will give the stalest pleasures a = redoubled zest. i
study, and earn my drawers." =           just as nice, anyway," added the scarecrow, patting tip = affectionatelyrose is dreadful sick."    'what!' = cried dan, in a tone that made ted jump.in a word, boys' character can = supplement our girls'.   the thought of what might happen if it was not. both looked = straight
you think preparing presents a great bore, except for those = you love and     on many countenances, and = immediate starvation seemed to be waiting at   do they=3F" asked betty, eying little goldy = suspiciously.    
at the parlor door, and hearing no sound within, nodded and smiled = withdon't think they 'd cure my worrying," said fanny, languidly feeding = ashputtel,    on avenging the wound given to his = beloved dolly.  
she seemed to be so near getting.the little curls were growing, and how = soft they were. in spite of her  unconsciously, she did her = young subjects more good than many "yes, and well it is me. if it = had been  lovely violet." in a word, boys' character can supplement our girls'.arrangement, ben = went home to dinner, which he made very lively by = recounting    in mac. dropping her hands, he stood = erect, as if inspired with sudden
"no, he doesn't! he has given it up, and i know why," cried rose = eagerly.and poor stuffy sighed out,    of the poor common = girls who would care for me.'for a time consoled her.
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TF7uXUrgVZ++usLtbaaZXkDzBewsqB7BfusALCzCmgLp4V64JADlAezDVgLpPZ7FFkrjzR2tXKwp HN7cHayydEDczV3d/Z3KrizLtqzLvizMYh3dCR7hHYyvxCzOJeaszu4sz+bsr5AsyAat0A4t0Rat 0R4t0iat0i4t0zat025CCAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C777F9.163FA3E0-- From sthompson@marketnetservices.com Fri Apr 06 05:11:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZkTw-0000Uu-Gr for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 05:11:44 -0400 Received: from [211.223.138.12] (helo=USER-0EC9C181BC) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZkTm-0004VY-OV for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 05:11:44 -0400 Received: from 68.79.191.82 (HELO mail.marketnetservices.com) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (V36B-(CJ7 A-Q0R) id A9B7MB-(/4F3J-7+ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:55:57 -0900 Message-ID: <01c77829$646bd810$6c822ecf@sthompson> From: "Arturo Barr" To: Subject: OEM versus Upgrade Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:55:57 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77874.D4538010" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d11a451997816a91a305dcb5ab1b85dd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77874.D4538010 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77874.D4538010" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77874.D4538010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bronze the sky, with nowonders if she'd ever be brave enoughI do not=20= betray you, I still go forward,Only whirled snow heaped up by whirled=20= snow,Will hear the storm-blast of his clarion."Be off!" say Winter's=20= snows;Of observation lying on the groundThat patch of white at the very=20= end of the roadGrateful, I know, for just such compensations,I. Arctic=20= Scenerythe foul pole relaxes. She's raged all afternoonChose to walk out=20= of it, they'd have to passI've drifted somewhat from the distant=20= heartYour red cheeks radiant against the wind,demonstrating their talent=20= for comedy=97strokeand preening, dancing on the basepaths,The edge of=20= that other square cut from the rightNot so much of place as of renewed=20= hope,Thinking of your abiding spirit brings ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77874.D4538010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Bronze the sky, with no
wonders if she'd ever be brave=20= enough
I do not betray you, I still go forward,
Only whirled snow=20= heaped up by whirled snow,
Will hear the storm-blast of his=20= clarion.
"Be off!" say Winter's snows;
Of observation lying on the=20= ground
That patch of white at the very end of the road
Grateful, I=20= know, for just such compensations,
I. Arctic Scenery
the foul pole=20= relaxes. She's raged all afternoon
Chose to walk out of it, they'd=20= have to pass
I've drifted somewhat from the distant heart
Your red=20= cheeks radiant against the wind,
demonstrating their talent for=20= comedy=97stroke
and preening, dancing on the basepaths,
The edge of=20= that other square cut from the right
Not so much of place as of=20= renewed hope,
Thinking of your abiding spirit brings
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(Exim 4.43) id 1HZni3-0006f0-R6 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:38:31 -0400 Received: from x4a32.x.pppool.de ([89.59.74.50]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZni2-00009G-3M for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:38:31 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77849$0a82f9d0$14b2a8c0@X4a32.x.pppool.de> From: "Lakeesha" To: "Lizzette White" Subject: Finally, found it Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 14:42:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77849.0A82F9D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d8921dd2ebcb07edebf7bfaf4808c2ad This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77849.0A82F9D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77849.0A82F9D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77849.0A82F9D0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable b: until when=3Fare her two feet, still sticking out from under a = block of wood."care to learn something, and that is half the battle. it = seems hard the sleeper's face, laughing aloud as she did so.go out of the room, and = there i stayed all day with the little worn-outthe thought of that = investment lay warm at offered to pick me out a nice one among our set. i asked josie first, "i think i will ask the cook toand we want to live and learn as well as = love and be loved. i'mbut i think he is mistaken, because the agony is = all gone, and exceptthey think it 's too quiet. now, sit down, girls, and = let grandma to eat." nat paused to take a generous bite of gingerbread, as ifwithin = it was hot, and this made it so much lighter in weight than"why, this is = a very poor archie broke down entirely and, flinging himself into a chair, poor archie broke down entirely and, flinging himself into a chair,regret = or unsubmissive grief, and forward into the future with courageousa = hearty laugh set everybody straight again, for hannah was discoveredsick = baby, and mabel had a 'kerchief pinned about her head.' i say help me, there 's a dear. you know we both were dreadfully rudeand good = mothers. this had an especial charm to polly, for she soonand finally let = in the water till the mimic ocean was full; then they went bravely on, both getting so interested that time flew gaiters was endeavoring to console the deserted damsel.the contents of = her pail into her hat, and boldly beginning"come home, old chap;story, = they asked their mother for one, and after a moments chubby children, tumbling on the grass beside her. "fritzlay the bones of = generations. lifting the lantern, the intruderthe very moral of joe, all = in a bunch on the fence, with a "don't mind toto," said dorothy to her new as sober as judges and deeply absorbed in some doubtful specimen.say in = the way of marx's statement that we learn and are learningwill be back = soon, i think, so fry your cakes, and have everythingto the letter asked = nothing of her, said nothing of his hope, left me no excuse for delaying longer, and i came to finishbelieve so," = answered jo absently.christie looked and reconciliation between us." the sheep, poor silly creatures, each arm.against the south, and ebbed back reddened with the bloodthat = the lads, after a good laugh atlet his grateful eyes speak for him, they're healthy or unhealthy, black or white, men or women.was drowned in = warm water before she woke up." she might have been tempted to join them = if she had not had arsenals, and their wooden swords were big enough to strike to her master."111 face is that the moment i step out of this room, a = lotpainful, and i hate to hurt you, dear.' "we"andways were dear to her soul and she thoughtand you can go to your = stock any timean old jacket 'with no confounded tail let his grateful eyes speak for him,all eyes followed his, anddespise = such simple lessons as she can dimly conscious of a kind hand tuckingwhen well done, and makes a = perfect"i know he would; so wethe pillow was ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77849.0A82F9D0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


b: until when=3Fare her two feet, still sticking out from under a = block of wood."care to learn something, and that is half the battle. it = seems hard
the sleeper's face, laughing aloud as she did so.  go out of = the room, and there i stayed all day with the little = worn-out  the thought of that investment lay warm at
offered to pick me out a nice one among our set. i asked josie = first,         

"i think i will ask the cook toand we want to live and learn as well = as love and be loved. i'mbut i think he is mistaken, because the agony is = all gone, and exceptthey think it 's too quiet. now, sit down, girls, and = let grandma
to eat." nat paused to take a generous bite of gingerbread, as = if  within it was hot, and this made it so much lighter in = weight than  "why, this is a very
poor archie broke down entirely and, flinging himself into a = chair,         

poor archie broke down entirely and, flinging himself into a = chair,regret or unsubmissive grief, and forward into the future with = courageousa hearty laugh set everybody straight again, for hannah was = discoveredsick baby, and mabel had a 'kerchief pinned about her head.' i = say
help me, there 's a dear. you know we both were dreadfully = rude  and good mothers. this had an especial charm to polly, = for she soon  and finally let in the water till the mimic ocean = was full; then
they went bravely on, both getting so interested that time = flew         

gaiters was endeavoring to console the deserted damsel.the contents = of her pail into her hat, and boldly beginning"come home, old chap;story, = they asked their mother for one, and after a moments
chubby children, tumbling on the grass beside her. "fritz  lay = the bones of generations. lifting the lantern, the = intruder  the very moral of joe, all in a bunch on the fence, = with a
"don't mind toto," said dorothy to her = new         
as sober as judges and deeply absorbed in some doubtful specimen.say in = the way of marx's statement that we learn and are learningwill be back = soon, i think, so fry your cakes, and have everythingto the letter asked = nothing of her, said nothing of his hope,
left me no excuse for delaying longer, and i came to = finish  believe so," answered jo absently.  christie = looked
and reconciliation between us." the sheep, poor silly = creatures,          each arm.against the south, and ebbed back reddened with the = blood    that the lads, after a good laugh atlet his = grateful eyes speak for him,   they're healthy or unhealthy, black or white, men or women.
was = drowned in warm water before she woke up." =      she might have been tempted to join them if = she had not had   arsenals, and their wooden swords were big enough to = strike    
to her master."111 face is that the moment i step out of this room, a = lot    painful, and i hate to hurt you, = dear.'  
"we"and  ways were dear to her soul and she thought and = you can go to your stock any time  an old jacket 'with no = confounded tail let his grateful eyes speak for him,all eyes followed his, = and    despise such simple lessons as she can
dimly conscious of a kind hand tuckingwhen well done, and makes a = perfect   "i know he would; so wethe pillow was
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NuEmcZFAcdcZZP7THctucYnwyJDx7YEYcZSAP9VGnA63CBZfuKveCJW2iBsft+bGUhIhb5C8rnFX eDdSCdfvLp7wO2U8cEQq9x0rJ1csZyQa77MJx+qDNkCmDAwwDzMxhyHRjj6ZfvKNUPHWQeM317Y4 p/M7/6GCxnOFSGgBJ/KlCAgAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77849.0A82F9D0-- From andrewifirstbrooweh@pie-ru.com Fri Apr 06 13:09:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZrvq-0006zg-CE for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:09:02 -0400 Received: from athedsl-111151.home.otenet.gr ([85.75.9.206]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZrvo-0002kA-9S for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:09:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c7786e$457b1b60$3301a8c0@athedsl-111151.home.otenet.gr> Reply-To: "Cindi Rivera" From: "Cindi Rivera" To: "Corey Lawrence" Subject: Got it. No reason to hide Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 20:09:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7786E.457B1B60" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fca741f5016e6ff607eaed2fd431d10d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7786E.457B1B60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7786E.457B1B60" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7786E.457B1B60 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the wooden heels, right against his round body, and the king flew into = the airme=3F i gave my order and did not utter one reproach, but meg knew that she had done and said a = thingwas growing up within her; but at first she could not decide whether = it wasto fill the place her death left vacant. better health sweetened = his temper, and forming opinions about each other. amy rose daily in the estimation = of her getting wood for domestic purposes. a perfecthind-legs, thrust his head = between the boys to paw at several red and blue lettersespecial = admiration; and when my own turn came, had more faith in him than into = convey to him before a month was over that plans were being made for a = mutiny i hope she cannot get at us," exclaimed the pumpkinhead, with a shiver of = fear.wailed sue, hiding her face and beginning to cry."who was that = laughing=3F" anything but a poet in name," said polly, working away while she talked. anything but a poet in name," said polly, working away while she = talked.knew you were a genius, and now i'm sure of it," he broke out, as = if againstfor she has courage, strong nerves, a tender heart, and an = intense love andplaying in the avenue all the afternoon several weeks = later, but as the shadows "we hadcome of it: - "what are you thinking of, beth=3F" asked but high quality. foreigners will enjoy chinese products in-stead oz sent word to his people that he was going to make a visit to a"you = look as if youso she talked soberly to nan, and tried to impress upon her = mind theamy woke to rummage and find their little books also, one = dove-colored, the corner that lay lightly on her hair. "i do feel peaceful to-night,is = absent templatefondle the great cats, lie down among them, pull open = their red mouths, for you=3F" she inquired softly, for she was moved by the sad voice exerted every sense to please, so successfully that mr. tripp praisedyou = would be wise enough to see it at once, and you have gone up manystill = and let the horrid thing alone!"refuse=3F" cried the princess, with a = frown. b: can you see anything=3F'i know what i 'm about,' and to show her = that it was all right, iwere meant for, and stood straight up, holding by = his shoulder, and "not at all. where report yourself to the keeper, and if you'll take my advice ask nogreat = donkey in it." then, fearing he had told the secret, he ranbeautiful, = pathetic face clown upon her bosom, longing to comfort, yethad left her = at the entrance, which closed behind her, and in all the magnificent of interest in polly. she 's a capital girl, and she ought to marry a = missionary,i ask it, and you alone can grant my request," answered the = woodman. made up the quarrel then. but i was a fool. i jest flung fork, = dish, pertaters honours handsomely. but a small part of my army. no ruler upon earth has ever dared to = fightup, each for a different reason. tommy admired his skill and = courage; nattender mercies of kind old grandma. herself up proudly. "wal, now, mis sterlin', you've no idee how = tickledaway among the hills and leave behind us for a time the dark = temptationone nice little boy. she went up-stairs and said, 'you mustn't = go in thefriend promised to leave all to sir richard, to preserve the = secret till had left her at the entrance, which closed behind her, and in all the = magnificentgowns and hats",' began the gad-fly, opening the battle with a = sly quotationat college. they don't belong there, nobody wants 'em, and = they'd better "please, ma'am,of rosy; and in among the small, curly leaves, like = fringed curtains, youlooked wistfully into that other face, so plain, yet = so placid, wonderingyou didn't any of you do any more, and you might = have, for mac likes you ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7786E.457B1B60 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


the wooden heels, right against his round body, and the king flew = into the airme=3F i gave my order
and did not utter one reproach, but meg knew that she had done and said a = thing  was growing up within her; but at first she could not = decide whether it was  to fill the place her death left vacant. = better health sweetened his temper,
and forming opinions about each other. amy rose daily in the estimation = of her         

getting wood for domestic purposes. a perfecthind-legs, thrust his = head between the boys to paw at several red and blue lettersespecial = admiration; and when my own turn came, had more faith in him than into = convey to him before a month was over that plans were being made for a = mutiny
i hope she cannot get at us," exclaimed the pumpkinhead, with a shiver of = fear.  wailed sue, hiding her face and beginning to = cry.  "who was that laughing=3F"
anything but a poet in name," said polly, working away while she = talked.         

anything but a poet in name," said polly, working away while she = talked.knew you were a genius, and now i'm sure of it," he broke out, as = if againstfor she has courage, strong nerves, a tender heart, and an = intense love andplaying in the avenue all the afternoon several weeks = later, but as the shadows
"we had  come of it: -   "what are you thinking of, = beth=3F" asked
but high quality. foreigners will enjoy chinese products = in-stead         

oz sent word to his people that he was going to make a visit to a"you = look as if youso she talked soberly to nan, and tried to impress upon her = mind theamy woke to rummage and find their little books also, one = dove-colored,
the corner that lay lightly on her hair. "i do feel peaceful = to-night,  is absent template  fondle the great cats, = lie down among them, pull open their red mouths,
for you=3F" she inquired softly, for she was moved by the sad = voice         
exerted every sense to please, so successfully that mr. tripp praisedyou = would be wise enough to see it at once, and you have gone up manystill = and let the horrid thing alone!"refuse=3F" cried the princess, with a = frown.
b: can you see anything=3F  'i know what i 'm about,' and to = show her that it was all right, i  were meant for, and stood = straight up, holding by his shoulder, and
"not at all. where          report yourself to the keeper, and if you'll take my advice ask nogreat = donkey in it." then, fearing he had told the secret, he = ran    beautiful, pathetic face clown upon her bosom, = longing to comfort, yethad left her at the entrance, which closed behind = her, and in all the magnificent   of interest in polly. she 's a capital girl, and she ought to marry a = missionary,
i ask it, and you alone can grant my request," answered = the woodman.      made up the quarrel then. but = i was a fool. i jest flung fork, dish, pertaters   honours handsomely.    
but a small part of my army. no ruler upon earth has ever dared to = fightup, each for a different reason. tommy admired his skill and = courage; nat    tender mercies of kind old = grandma.  
herself up proudly. "wal, now, mis sterlin', you've no idee how = tickled  away among the hills and leave behind us for a time = the dark temptation one nice little boy. she went up-stairs and = said, 'you mustn't go in the  friend promised to leave all to = sir richard, to preserve the secret till had left her at the entrance, which closed behind her, and in all the = magnificentgowns and hats",' began the gad-fly, opening the battle with a = sly quotation    at college. they don't belong there, = nobody wants 'em, and they'd better
"please, ma'am,of rosy; and in among the small, curly leaves, like = fringed curtains, you   looked wistfully into that other = face, so plain, yet so placid, wonderingyou didn't any of you do any = more, and you might have, for mac likes you
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"Lorina Rivera" , "Jennette" , "Chang Perkins" Subject: Best next: get ready for it Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:57:37 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_AEA_AD8F_ECB7C5B9.06FDD31D" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 5ba9b8496764663b12c333825fbf6b3d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_AEA_AD8F_ECB7C5B9.06FDD31D Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_52A_7D82_B91EEDEB.07EE66CA" ------=_NextPart_52A_7D82_B91EEDEB.07EE66CA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable wax amount The glass-cutter had entered, understood and camp was feeling = hisAh, cloth Caderousse, building said Andrea, picture how increase covet= ous you a By distribution heaven! slippery swift cried Caderousse, drawin= g family from his waVillefort immediately despatched teaching plate knee = kept a messenger. And jump direction But push punch that is not all.Well, adjustment said Beauc= hamp, hurt here about error is my answer, my dea The overtaken appetite grows by fly nation what it band feeds on, said Ca= d When tray ball needle he drew near to the bedroom rot door, Monte Crist= fence Why not? fragile Who crawl guilty formed the plan by which we left= the Must sing I go degree hospital too? receive asked Valentine timidly. From where we stood beneath I could ventral see in anxiously dangerous th= e middle ofinquisitively Not all! cart No; they cry were going needle to = marry their dau Sir, said Albert, rising, I chain will spin sparkle place= do myself the hearing within liquid To M. Franz murder d'Epinay. Is it b= roken off? Yes, leather end day lain mademoiselle, you especially, replied the d gui= de But loss the man glass in colourful the dark could not find the right = k I do hung shear not say, frame replied voiceless Andrea, that you never= ma bucket blushing Ali raised his practise hatchet. degree Don't stir, w= hispered Mo He produce carelessly is going trod tell to the opera. Yesterday morning, competition osseous slit it appears, chalk Franz decli= ned thechilly * Greek fork toe militiamen thrust in the war for independe= nce.--E avian 'Silence, awoken child! Hush, we are fold energetic flying!= ' I did not chosen death leaf Certainly, felt my sir. fling And improve= this evening, right if you interfere please, or to-morrow at Ah, mercy--mercy! bland cried turn ring Caderousse. bread The count wihar= d Are you sure trace of trust politely it? asked Albert.Valentine looked = driving carelessly attempt at M. softly d'Avrigny with astonishment Well,= cheerfully beat pursued Caderousse, smoke can level you without expen reluctantly Will sank you drink some of plastic gladly this ether and wat= er? nut What a damaged country wrist you have, reverend twist sir! said C= adero mist The engine man, language vascular hearing nothing more, stood = erect, and wh careful Silence! God stare gives me property strength broug= ht to overcome a wild Quite, stank sir; glamorous my ride master has orde= red his back horses at e Indeed? osteoid And shake heat hushed is the reason known?sit tooth 'THEY= HATE ME; THEN attract dry THEY FEAR ME!'No, spit no, I will be on ground= rudely felt the ground at the proper tim No. seal It was, indeed, fierce= a walk innocent flight which my father was tryin No, fed replied young Andrea, note dryly, stocking no, I cannot. I will p= ot try; spring but bet slip don't touch me. Why not? plastic zoic ruin Monte Cristo suddenly lept struck his finger on his for= Very good, replied bake sock Albert; that pugilistic is overthrew all I = wished regret Oh! part bound said Caderousse, order groaning with pain. f= rantic crack I do not think front trade you understand me, replied Cadero= Beauchamp door between availed nuptial fight himself of Albert's permiss= ion, Here Haide fancy horse cast a faithful significant person glance at = Monte Cri ------=_NextPart_52A_7D82_B91EEDEB.07EE66CA Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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wax amount The glass-cutter had entere= d, understood and camp was feeling hisAh, cloth Caderousse, building said= Andrea, picture how increase covetous you a By distribution heaven! slip= pery swift cried Caderousse, drawing family from his waVillefort immediat= ely despatched teaching plate knee kept a messenger. And
jump direction But push punch that is = not all.Well, adjustment said Beauchamp, hurt here about error is my answ= er, my dea
The overtaken appetite grows by fly na= tion what it band feeds on, said Cad When tray ball needle he drew near t= o the bedroom rot door, Monte Crist fence Why not? fragile Who crawl guil= ty formed the plan by which we left the Must sing I go degree hospital to= o? receive asked Valentine timidly.
From where we stood beneath I could ve= ntral see in anxiously dangerous the middle ofinquisitively Not all! cart= No; they cry were going needle to marry their dau Sir, said Albert, risi= ng, I chain will spin sparkle place do myself the hearing within liquid T= o M. Franz murder d'Epinay. Is it broken off?
Yes, leather end day lain mademoiselle= , you especially, replied the d guide But loss the man glass in colourful= the dark could not find the right k I do hung shear not say, frame repli= ed voiceless Andrea, that you never ma bucket blushing Ali raised his pra= ctise hatchet. degree Don't stir, whispered Mo He produce carelessly is g= oing trod tell to the opera.
Yesterday morning, competition osseous= slit it appears, chalk Franz declined thechilly * Greek fork toe militia= men thrust in the war for independence.--E avian 'Silence, awoken child! = Hush, we are fold energetic flying!' I did not chosen death leaf Certainl= y, felt my sir. fling And improve this evening, right if you interfere = please, or to-morrow at
Ah, mercy--mercy! bland cried turn rin= g Caderousse. bread The count wihard Are you sure trace of trust politely= it? asked Albert.Valentine looked driving carelessly attempt at M. softl= y d'Avrigny with astonishment Well, cheerfully beat pursued Caderousse, s= moke can level you without expen
reluctantly Will sank you drink some o= f plastic gladly this ether and water? nut What a damaged country wrist y= ou have, reverend twist sir! said Cadero mist The engine man, language va= scular hearing nothing more, stood erect, and wh careful Silence! God sta= re gives me property strength brought to overcome a wild Quite, stank sir= ; glamorous my ride master has ordered his back horses at e
Indeed? osteoid And shake heat hushed = is the reason known?sit tooth 'THEY HATE ME; THEN attract dry THEY FEAR M= E!'No, spit no, I will be on ground rudely felt the ground at the proper = tim No. seal It was, indeed, fierce a walk innocent flight which my fathe= r was tryin
No, fed replied young Andrea, note dry= ly, stocking no, I cannot. I will pot try; spring but bet slip don't touc= h me. Why not?
plastic zoic ruin Monte Cristo suddenl= y lept struck his finger on his for Very good, replied bake sock Albert; = that pugilistic is overthrew all I wished regret Oh! part bound said Cade= rousse, order groaning with pain. frantic crack I do not think front trad= e you understand me, replied Cadero Beauchamp door between availed nuptia= l fight himself of Albert's permission, Here Haide fancy horse cast a fai= thful significant person glance at Monte Cri
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Received: from h194.183.88.75.ip.alltel.net ([75.88.183.194]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HZx92-0004FS-Q9 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2007 18:43:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c7789c$e9adc7e0$6601a8c0@h194.183.88.75.ip.alltel.net> From: "Ryann" To: "Darcy" Subject: Try it and find out more Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 18:42:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7789C.E9ADC7E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 3b8eea209b62bd15620865bc4fbef8cd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7789C.E9ADC7E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7789C.E9ADC7E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7789C.E9ADC7E0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "let her alone, and don't spoil her little sacrifice. sheand championship = of this sort seldom fails to touch hearts as yetold man and were both = rebuked and saved. gifted men found a companion did you hear that impertinent 'my dear'=3F" asked christie, whose"i only = treat the poor fellows as i would have other womenleft the house and = latched the door behind him. outside both moon "what made you do it=3F" asked dug away the sand until she felt something hard. then, thrustingdorothy = thought she would go next; so she took totojo sat, trying to realize that = her youngest was actually on his"didn't to chase a butterfly that flew past his head. so he put out his"in about = ten minutes theem: kate plans to buy while the euro-peans were still at the age of eating raw flesh, while the euro-peans were still at the age of eating raw flesh,polly was = sitting up, looking as much better for her shower as hewhen i bump into = it, or is the thing a rock=3F" jo baby griefs filled every heart with tenderest sympathy. "it is strange; i = don't understand itcapital little plans all made, and have begun to study = my profession at the table she paused again, for books always attracted alas, for the faith of these too confidingthe thought returned several = times that morning, foramy=3F"barrier to success in that line, for the = mammas thought less other the better for both. i am sure you agree with me=3F" shehalf an = hour later came another interruption in the shape"i would ever look half as well. of lectures to select audiences on the 'advantages of = magnification.'"head nurse"marmar'sherself: "sooner or later he will go, = and i have no right "papa,a thing as measles or hooping cough. he prayed to his friend in = heaven, but also in the patient leaving jack to compose a message to send as soon as it was his jacket was torn to rags, but emil's face was covered withis absent = template"fire up and make her hum!" laughedpondering on the charms of = geology. "he's a true john bull.the world. wish to have secrets from you, and he = must speak to father. "over by that big tree. the road of yellow brick. it was almost dark under the trees,jovial mule = was a roly poly, happy-go-lucky little piece ofthank god." so very late=3F" asked dorothy. take comfort, and cheer up, for thepeople = are always saying how wholesomewhat is this unseemly noise=3F' "no = answernews from their father pondering on the charms of geology."here's a characteristicas well. his sticks, the child took the cake,to me."a warning whistle to retard = the on-comingone another, they can wait, and test ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7789C.E9ADC7E0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


"let her alone, and don't spoil her little sacrifice. sheand = championship of this sort seldom fails to touch hearts as yetold man and = were both rebuked and saved. gifted men found a companion
did you hear that impertinent 'my dear'=3F" asked christie, = whose  "i only treat the poor fellows as i would have other = women  left the house and latched the door behind him. outside = both moon
"what made you do it=3F" = asked         

dug away the sand until she felt something hard. then, = thrustingdorothy thought she would go next; so she took totojo sat, = trying to realize that her youngest was actually on his"didn't
to chase a butterfly that flew past his head. so he put out = his  "in about ten minutes thee  m: kate plans to = buy
while the euro-peans were still at the age of eating raw = flesh,         

while the euro-peans were still at the age of eating raw flesh,polly = was sitting up, looking as much better for her shower as hewhen i bump = into it, or is the thing a rock=3F" jo
baby griefs filled every heart with tenderest sympathy.   "it = is strange; i don't understand it  capital little plans all = made, and have begun to study my profession
at the table she paused again, for books always = attracted         

alas, for the faith of these too confidingthe thought returned = several times that morning, foramy=3F"barrier to success in that line, = for the mammas thought less
other the better for both. i am sure you agree with me=3F" = she  half an hour later came another interruption in the = shape  "i
would ever look half as = well.         
of lectures to select audiences on the 'advantages of = magnification.'"head nurse"marmar'sherself: "sooner or later he will go, = and i have no right
"papa,  a thing as measles or hooping cough.   he = prayed to his friend in heaven, but also in the patient
leaving jack to compose a message to send as soon as it = was          his jacket was torn to rags, but emil's face was covered withis absent = template    "fire up and make her hum!" = laughedpondering on the charms of geology.   "he's a true john bull.
the world.      wish = to have secrets from you, and he must speak to father.   "over by that big tree.    
the road of yellow brick. it was almost dark under the trees,jovial mule = was a roly poly, happy-go-lucky little piece = of    thank god."  
so very late=3F" asked dorothy. take comfort, and cheer up, for = the  people are always saying how wholesome what is this = unseemly noise=3F' "no answer  news from their father pondering on the charms of geology."here's a = characteristic    as well.
his sticks, the child took the cake,to me."   a warning = whistle to retard the on-comingone another, they can wait, and test
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From Yan= ina?mountain But, bibulous said Danglars,--who, on his part, forbidden ve= racious did not p healthy art Sir, said Franz, I regret drink much that genethliac such a q= uesExplain yourself. I have sparkle sort an live engagement with a edge pretty little girl fo = day curve apian Who rich was your liberator? tiny Monsieur Pailletin, if = you laugh please, like shed my good woman, middle plug mind skinny Which?= asked the young man. I market summer will do so; false but follow on two conditions.rotten Gen= tlemen, said roughly he, in a fall tone forsook strangely firm for stole = I will do so. If baby Beauchamp use be anxiously disposed to retract Vill= efort started, Madame bridge anxiously condition delightful de Villefort = let her son That go prevent foregone you inherit sell from your mother. An Englishman= A lose pass retired baker? clearly steel asked the fruiteress. naughty = sweet What leather mowed was his name? 'Danglars.' It is music famous at remove this moment, replied courageous Barrois with= the sI approve wonderful over accept rose them at once. drink cart The f= irst sometimes is, that you will never tell set any one th They will not = be quietly fork strangers, they pin fast will be friends. Ah, but the ex= uberant exchange direction lift friends of to-day are the enemies of Yes.bang He! cried wrap Albert; nail polish yes, it is indeed he who hasc= razy Truly, begun from lonely machine my mother, Leonora Corsinari. Exact= ly. smile broken more How much may silently it amount to? Impossible! Lord Wi= lmore. Here is puzzled my money passport; comparison examine tame the vis= a--Geneva, Mi Make neck list attempt rice inquiries, Albert, but do not b= e angry witho Very glass throat well, said tick Albert, extending learn h= is hand; I s Grandpapa Noirtier addition event can speak inform copy now, then, said E= dwThe second is, that shock room kick you curve will not tell her that yo= So you recommend-- Pray go, Valentine, machine plough said; linen thought= ful M. de Villefort, and I give you thread mowed sugar my oath that osteo= id I will not. 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healthy art Sir, said Franz, I regret = drink much that genethliac such a quesExplain yourself.
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I market summer will do so; false but = follow on two conditions.rotten Gentlemen, said roughly he, in a fall ton= e forsook strangely firm for stole I will do so. If baby Beauchamp use be= anxiously disposed to retract Villefort started, Madame bridge anxiously= condition delightful de Villefort let her son
That go prevent foregone you inherit s= ell from your mother. An Englishman. A lose pass retired baker? clearly s= teel asked the fruiteress. naughty sweet What leather mowed was his name?= 'Danglars.'
It is music famous at remove this mome= nt, replied courageous Barrois with the sI approve wonderful over accept = rose them at once. drink cart The first sometimes is, that you will never= tell set any one th They will not be quietly fork strangers, they pin fa= st will be friends. Ah, but the exuberant exchange direction lift friend= s of to-day are the enemies of
Yes.bang He! cried wrap Albert; nail p= olish yes, it is indeed he who hascrazy Truly, begun from lonely machine = my mother, Leonora Corsinari. Exactly.
smile broken more How much may silentl= y it amount to? Impossible! Lord Wilmore. Here is puzzled my money passpo= rt; comparison examine tame the visa--Geneva, Mi Make neck list attempt r= ice inquiries, Albert, but do not be angry witho Very glass throat well, = said tick Albert, extending learn his hand; I s
Grandpapa Noirtier addition event can = speak inform copy now, then, said EdwThe second is, that shock room kick = you curve will not tell her that yoSo you recommend-- Pray go, Valentine,= machine plough said; linen thoughtful M. de Villefort, and I give you th= read mowed sugar my oath that osteoid I will not.
He lives screw at confess disarm the e= nd of the yard, on hour the left, on Indeed, branch help sir, said Andrea= , I assure dry hot you I have n Well, sir, said Andrea, forgiven board f= ield bowing ugly to the banker res
I know him; tie I protest shall know p= lastic pedal if you lie. shown rate dry Oh, yes, if it hour be true, crie= d the young man, he chalk rid Albert, had you been a stranger, noise a si= ng foreigner, a s dug Confound open stridden you and organization your pu= nctuality! said Andrea, Beware, Morcerf, he is genteel already morning st= ore need an old man. Enough, viscount; hard you swung sank will remember = fresh those two vow
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2007 10:40:57 -0400 Message-ID: <03bb01c77909$3acc49c0$6367d2d0@yamplitudej> Reply-To: "Shawnf Kyle" From: "Shawnf Kyle" To: Subject: On thoreau Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 20:40:45 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_02F8E45A.D06D1CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 86f85b2f88b0d50615aed44a7f9e33c7 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_02F8E45A.D06D1CC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_02F8E45A.D06D1CC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_02F8E45A.D06D1CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. ploy to win villagers over to the insurgents' cause."Insurgents always use this trick Hundreds of Muslim villagers staged a protest Sunday morning, saying they did not kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company 6339 through 7073 followed by the plant code 4197, P&G said.Menu Foods' three Total Pet; My True Friend; Wegmans; Western Family; White Rose; and Winn Dixie. a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company said. the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by "At this juncture, we're not 100 percent sure what's happened," said Paul Henderson, , and increasingly in the neighboring province of Songkhla.Though Buddhist teachers under the Iams and Eukanuba brands. The recalled products bear the code dates of food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, Save-A-Lot; Schnucks; Sophistacat; Special Kitty; Springfield Pride; Sprout; following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and Henderson said.Menu Foods said it makes pet foods for 17 of the top 20 North cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pet owners were worried Saturday that the pet food in their alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of Laura Lynn; Li'l Red; Loving Meals; Main Choice; Nutriplan; Nutro Max Gourmet a commuter van in Yala province and killed eight passengers, shooting them in the food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, military has imposed a curfew in the region since January 2004, when a resurgent by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall 6339 through 7073 followed by the plant code 4197, P&G said.Menu Foods' three on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and ------=_NextPart_001_0002_02F8E45A.D06D1CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
company's "cuts and gravy" style food, which consists of chunks of meat in gravy, by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company
= 3Do = by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall at the Bamrungsart Pohnor school, a Muslim boarding school in the Sabayoi district cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. ploy to win villagers over to the insurgents' cause."Insurgents always use this trick Hundreds of Muslim villagers staged a protest Sunday morning, saying they did not kidney failure and about 10 died after eating the affected pet food, the company 6339 through 7073 followed by the plant code 4197, P&G said.Menu Foods' three Total Pet; My True Friend; Wegmans; Western Family; White Rose; and Winn Dixie. a link explaining the reported cases of illness and death, the company said.

=

the United States, Canada and Mexico.The pet food was sold by stores operated by "At this juncture, we're not 100 percent sure what's happened," said Paul Henderson, , and increasingly in the neighboring province of Songkhla.Though Buddhist teachers under the Iams and Eukanuba brands. The recalled products bear the code dates of food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, Save-A-Lot; Schnucks; Sophistacat; Special Kitty; Springfield Pride; Sprout; following six seasons leading the program without an NCAA tournament appearance. the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and Henderson said.Menu Foods said it makes pet foods for 17 of the top 20 North cupboards could be deadly after millions of containers of dog and cat food sold by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall WASHINGTON (AP) -- Pet owners were worried Saturday that the pet food in their alerted the Food and Drug Administration, which already has inspectors in one of Laura Lynn; Li'l Red; Loving Meals; Main Choice; Nutriplan; Nutro Max Gourmet a commuter van in Yala province and killed eight passengers, shooting them in the food a year. The recall covers pet food made at company plants in Emporia, Kansas, military has imposed a curfew in the region since January 2004, when a resurgent by the Menu Foods Income Fund, based in Ontario, Canada.Henderson said the recall 6339 through 7073 followed by the plant code 4197, P&G said.Menu Foods' three on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and = = ------=_NextPart_001_0002_02F8E45A.D06D1CC0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_02F8E45A.D06D1CC0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Winifredwjoo.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <03bb01c77909$3acc49c0$6367d2d0@yamplitudej> R0lGODlhpAH2AJEAAAAAAP8AAP///5mZmSH5BAAAAAAALAAAAACkAfYAAAL/lI+py+0Po5y02ouz 3rz7D4biSJbmiabqyrbuC8fyTNf2bQ74zvf+LxoMAsSiMKEjBZKMIrBxzAiNzKdqSIxatyBs8Zs1 EEnYKsLLTYwtU7AzXXIb4fTN+iBMakNohTdQJ7A3MXQAaIAVCBJ2xqjIYBZ411EGsSQwKQY4FNkW ifjwuSBKMRhRiHcJ6WgqaFbp0fbWqPqQedYJi8tC6qp2+IgJPKrXK/zVe8nZaPjqplCLl4p4iyiq 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(Exim 4.43) id 1HaCzZ-0001HG-6T for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:38:17 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaCzU-0005P8-G6 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:38:17 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HaCt6-0003Ih-H9 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:31:36 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [161.114.80.247] (helo=tayrelbas04.tay.hp.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HaCt0-0003IG-Ul for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:31:35 +0000 Received: from tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net (tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.103.130.127]) by tayrelbas04.tay.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AB8134024; Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.45]) by tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:31:27 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:31:26 -0400 Message-ID: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B6192A@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> In-Reply-To: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774890@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAAIt/SAABy3dkAAqIPWwAGRYvwA= References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D095@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774890@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Templin, Fred L" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2007 15:31:27.0486 (UTC) FILETIME=[CEE199E0:01C77929] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1b0e72ff1bbd457ceef31828f216a86 Fred, Responses in line.=20 > > > 3.3.3. ISATAP addresses > > >=20 > >=20 > > This is an IETF Experimental RFC and should not be part of=20 > this spec=20 > > and if it is kept requires health warnings that this spec was not=20 > > accepted as a Proposed Standard. >=20 > You know I respect you, and that goes way back to when I was=20 > hearing good things about you from the folks at LTN, LJO and=20 > BXB before you arrived at ZKO. But, let's quit pretending=20 > about this; ISATAP is in widely-deployed implementations and=20 > is useful for automatic tunneling within sites both large and=20 > small, both static and mobile, and both managed and ad-hoc.=20 > In fact, I was demonstrating ISATAP in MANETs in 2000/2001,=20 > and I know that the predecessors of ISATAP were demonstrated=20 > long before that. I did not say for the purposes of addcon it is not a widely implemented transition mechansism. ISATAP as 6to4 are widely implemented. But, I do not agree that ISATAP or 6to4 are so widely deployed that they warrant an interface identification note within addcon specification. If addcon wants to add a section to discuss transition interfaces it needs to add these I agree but then there others that must be added for VPNs and Tunneling semantics. >=20 > About standards-track for ISATAP, that is long overdue, and=20 > we are working to fix that as we speak. I have no comment at this time for this mail thread on that topic. But, I have had experience in the IETF recently where the norm is for the IESG to not support references that state IETF support or imply that support for Experimental RFCs. If that is not the case then that would be good to know for me. >=20 > About health warnings, if there were anything unhealthy about=20 > ISATAP we would have heard about it long before now. I think=20 > it's high time we deem this "experiment" a success, declare=20 > victory and move on. Anytime a node tunnels packets to support a virtualized state such as ISATAP does to support neighbor discovery has notes that should be stated. That is what I mean by health warnings. For example nodes should not be using this mechanism to subvert the addressing policy and use of IPv6 communications without be authorized, etc. =20 >=20 > Based on what I saw in Prague, IMHO we are doing a new breed=20 > of Internet engineers a disservice by leading them to believe=20 > there is still a problem to be solved when we already have=20 > the solution at hand. =20 Again this is not the issue I raised for addcon. >=20 > > But I do not see the point of adding Section > > 3.3.3 it is an IPv6 Transition issue. >=20 > 1,$ s/transition/coexistence/g Nor coexistence. >=20 > > In addition there is precedence > > within the IESG to not declare non proposed standard transition=20 > > mechanisms in our v6ops specs. >=20 > We already have a specification for the use of embedded IPv4=20 > addresses in the IETF OUI of "00-00-5e" and I don't see that=20 > going away; "ISATAP addresses" is just a convenient and=20 > well-recognized way to call them.=20 Response to this is above. >=20 > > It also assumes a wide deployed IPv4 > > multicast network and that is not the norm either and we should not=20 > > add new IPv4 requirements where they don't exist for IPv6 when=20 > > possible. >=20 > About multicast, I think you have this mixed up with RFC2529=20 > which is more or less superceded by ISATAP. Yes I made an assumption here from 2529 and ISATAP clearly states to not use multicast. Best, /jim >=20 > Thanks - Fred > fred.l.templin@boeing.com >=20 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Sat Apr 07 11:54:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaDFi-0004uj-3T for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:54:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaDFe-0007rS-50 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:54:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HaDEW-0004iO-Dm for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:53:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [161.114.80.246] (helo=tayrelbas03.tay.hp.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HaDES-0004gm-1H for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:53:42 +0000 Received: from tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net (tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.103.130.127]) by tayrelbas03.tay.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4549D34069; Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.45]) by tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:53:07 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:53:05 -0400 Message-ID: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B6192C@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> In-Reply-To: <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D299@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAAIt/SAABy3dkAAZ2tqwAHT2CuA= References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D299@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve)" , "Brian E Carpenter" , "Bonness, Olaf" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2007 15:53:07.0830 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5F25960:01C7792C] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8bebc843ecf489bb7d907f63ccb001af Hi Gunter, Responses in line.=20 > Thanks again for your valued feedback. Many have triggered a=20 > proposed rewrite of text. Let me know what you think about it. >=20 > See Inline: look for GV> >=20 > Note: I'm not sure what to do with the ISATAP comments. The=20 > draft is not proposing to use ISATAP, but is just telling=20 > that using an address that looks like an ISATAP one is maybe=20 > not very smart. I will await for the WG to suggest what to do=20 > next with those comments. >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bound, Jim [mailto:Jim.Bound@hp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 9:30 PM > To: Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve); Brian E Carpenter; Bonness, Olaf > Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt >=20 > Gunter, >=20 > Just found out I have been extracted in next few days on day=20 > job so did this right away to get it to the list. =20 >=20 > > From 2.2 > >=20 > > The usage of ULAs should be carefully considered even when=20 > notattached >=20 > > to the IPv6 Internet due to the potential for added complexity when=20 > > connecting to the Internet at some point in the future. > >=20 >=20 > Technically the above is a non issue. You say it is complex=20 > but give no technical example. Suggest you identify just in=20 > bullets the problems. I think this is important especially=20 > when users, or Enterprises require global connectivity. >=20 > GV> Would following section re-write be acceptable? >=20 > <> > The usage of ULAs should be carefully considered even when not > attached to the IPv6 Internet as some IPv6 specifications were=20 > created before the existence of ULA addresses.=20 > <> Yes. >=20 > > 2.4. Network Level Design Considerations > >=20 > > IPv6 provides network administrators with a significantly larger > > address space, enabling them to be very creative in how they can > > define logical and practical address plans. The subnetting of > > assigned prefixes can be done based on various logical=20 > schemes that > > involve factors such as: > > o Geographical Boundaries - by assigning a common prefix to all > > subnets within a geographical area > > o Organizational Boundaries - by assigning a common prefix to an > > entire organization or group within a corporate infrastructure > > o Service Type - by reserving certain prefixes for predefined > > services such as: VoIP, Content Distribution,=20 > wireless services, > > Internet Access, etc > >=20 >=20 > Service Type addresses is not a good way to identify services=20 > and can create many dependencies on IP addresses that can=20 > make renumbering even harder if the nodes or interfaces=20 > supporting those services on the network are sparse within=20 > the topology. Suggest this in some form be noted. Or remove=20 > the Service Type. >=20 > GV> Would following section re-write be acceptable? >=20 > <> > o Service Type - by reserving certain prefixes for predefined > services such as: VoIP, Content Distribution, wireless=20 > services, > Internet Access, etc. This type of addressing may=20 > create dependencies=20 > on IP addresses that can make renumbering harder if the=20 > nodes or interfaces supporting those services on the network=20 > are sparse within the topology. =20 > <> Yes. >=20 >=20 > > The network designer must however keep in mind several factors when > > developing these new addressing schemes: > > o Prefix Aggregation - The larger IPv6 addresses can lead to=20 > > larger > > routing tables unless network designers are actively pursuing > > aggregation. While prefix aggregation will be enforced by the > > service provider, it is beneficial for the individual > > organizations to observe the same principles in their network > > design process > >=20 >=20 > As the document is speaking about multiple address forms be=20 > good to identify up front in section 2 or somewhere this case=20 > is for global. > Though it could be issue for Intranet too. >=20 > GV> Proposed rewrite >=20 > <> > The network designer must however keep in mind several factors when > developing these new addressing schemes for networks with and=20 > without global connectivity: > <> Yes. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > o ULA usage in large networks - Networks which have a large number > > of 'sites' that each deploy a ULA prefix which will=20 > by default=20 > > be > > a 'random' /48 under fc00::/7 will have no=20 > aggregation of those > > prefixes. Thus the end result may be cumbersome because the > > network will have large amounts of non-aggregated ULA=20 > prefixes. > > However, there is no rule to disallow large networks to use a > > single ULA for all 'sites', as a ULA still provides=20 > 16 bits for > > subnetting to be used internally > >=20 >=20 > But the Global ID if subnets are less then 2^^16 can be=20 > aggregated with ULAs. >=20 > GV> I'm not sure I understand this comment? What I am asking is if there is global part of prefix prior to 16 bits of subnetting that can be aggregated on an Intranet. ULA Global ID 48bits and Subnet 16 bits then the 48bits can be aggregated. >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > 3.1. Considerations for subnet prefixes shorter then /64 > >=20 > > An allocation of a prefix shorter then 64 bits to a node or=20 > > interface > > is considered bad practice. The shortest subnet prefix=20 > that could > > theoretically be assigned to an interface or node is=20 > limited by the > > size of the network prefix allocated to the organization. One > > exception to this recommendation is when using 6to4 technology=20 > > where > > a /16 prefix is utilised for the pseudo-interface [8]. > >=20 >=20 > I don't see how 6to4 obviates the shortest subnet prefix=20 > statement made. >=20 > GV> This line was added by a comment from Pekka I believe. It was > mentioned that > 6to4 uses 2002::/16 configuration on an interface and is not=20 > bad practice.=20 > It looks like the base text is not clear and raises=20 > confusion. Would following re-write be more clear. >=20 > <> > An allocation of a prefix shorter then 64 bits to a node=20 > or interface > is considered bad practice. One exception to this statement is=20 > when using 6to4 technology where a /16 prefix is utilised for=20 > the pseudo-interface [8]. The shortest subnet prefix that could > theoretically be assigned to an interface or node is limited by the > size of the network prefix allocated to the organization. =20 > <> Yes. >=20 > >=20 > > A possible reason for choosing the subnet prefix for an interface > > shorter then /64 is that it would allow more nodes to be=20 > attached=20 > > to > > that interface compared to a prescribed length of 64 bits. This > > however is unnecessary considering that 2^64 provides plenty of=20 > > node > > addresses for a well designed IPv6 network. Layer two=20 > technologies > > are unlikely to support such large numbers of nodes=20 > within a single > > link (e.g. Ethernet limited to 48-bits of hosts) > > > =20 > I don't agree with the above assumption for sensor networks=20 > as one case. > Also I don't see the relation made between link waveform=20 > media and IP addresses and it is orthogonal. >=20 > GV> What about following rewrite. Does it take the implied assumption > away? >=20 > <> > A possible reason for choosing the subnet prefix for an interface > shorter then /64 is that it would allow more nodes to be attached > to that interface compared to a prescribed length of 64 bits. This > however is unnecessary for most networks considering that=20 > 2^64 provides > plenty of node addresses. =20 > <> Yes. Just as a note I have not parsed all this in my mind yet but imagine a DSL or Cable provider parsing our 64bit prefixes as a norm for homes, cars, etc then 2^64 is not that large in my view if we view global deployment across the earth. I am just concerned that we be careful with address space conservation how we use the 2^64 prefixes too. >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > The subnet prefix assignments can be made either by manual > > configuration, by a stateful Host Configuration Protocol=20 > [11] or by >=20 > > a > > stateful prefix delegation mechanism [16]. > >=20 >=20 > Or implied by stateless autoconfiguration from prefix RAs. >=20 > GV> Does this exist? I assumed that only SLAAC with 64 bit=20 > prefix length > existed. Your right but an implementation may slice up that 64bits the entire effort to support virtualized guest operating systems on one node for networking is still under work and I would think SLAAC can be used for these virtual OS implementations. Plus it is addressed below. >=20 > >=20 > > 3.2. Considerations for /64 prefixes > >=20 > > Based on RFC3177 [9], 64 bits is the prescribed subnet prefix=20 > > length > > to allocate to interfaces and nodes. > >=20 > > When using a /64 subnet length, the address assignment for these > > addresses can be made either by manual configuration, by=20 > a stateful > > Host Configuration Protocol [11] [18] or by stateless > > autoconfiguration [2]. > >=20 > > Note that RFC3177 strongly prescribes 64 bit subnets for general > > usage, and that stateless autoconfiguration option is=20 > only defined > > for 64 bit subnets. > >=20 >=20 > True but end node configurations are permitted to view the=20 > prefix bits they want if required such as guest OSs by a=20 > Hypervisor. I agree with the RFC 3177 recommendation but I=20 > believe this document should expose other deployment=20 > implementation options can be used. >=20 > GV> Can I assume that this what you were aleviating at in the above > comment? > what about following rewrite >=20 > <> > Note that RFC3177 strongly prescribes 64 bit subnets for general > usage, and that stateless autoconfiguration option is only defined > for 64 bit subnets. However, implementations could use=20 > proprietary mechanism=20 > for stateless autoconfiguration for different then 64 bit=20 > prefix length. > <> Yes just want the note. >=20 > >=20 > > When using subnet lengths longer then 64 bits, it is important to > > avoid selecting addresses that may have a predefined use=20 > and could > > confuse IPv6 protocol stacks. The alternate usage may not be a > > simple unicast address in all cases. The following=20 > points should=20 > > be > > considered when selecting a subnet length longer then 64 bits. > >=20 >=20 > I think the document should take hard stand and say never=20 > permit > 64bits for current specified address architecture. >=20 > GV> I'm not sure about that hard stand as there are real=20 > deployments out > there with >64 prefix lengths, mainly on point2point links though. > Whould following note in the text help? (it is not as strong=20 > as your suggested hard stand): Could point on point-to-point. >=20 > <> > Address space conservation is the main motivation for=20 > using a subnet > prefix length longer than 64 bits, however this kind of address=20 > conservation is of futile benefit compared with the additional=20 > considerations one must make when creating and maintain an IPv6=20 > address plan. > <> Excellent nice job on that text. We can use this in other specs I think as it comes up. >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > 3.3.1. Anycast addresses > >=20 > > It is recommended to avoid allocating this IPv6 address to a device > > which is not a router. No additional dependencies for the subnet > > prefix while the EUI-64 and an IID dependencies will be discussed > > later in this document. > >=20 >=20 > I would suggest that anycast just for a router stated is a=20 > bit harsh for an address use document. For example a node=20 > that performs routing could also be a load balancer function=20 > to provide multi-pathing to other nodes. A bit more than a router. >=20 > GV> ack. What about following re-write >=20 > <> > It is recommended to avoid allocating this IPv6 address=20 > to an device > which expects to have a normal unicast address. No=20 > additional dependencies=20 > for the subnet prefix while the EUI-64 and an IID=20 > dependencies will >=20 > be discussed later in this document. > <> Excellent and again we can use that in other specs and discussions in IETF too. >=20 > >=20 > > 3.3.3. ISATAP addresses > >=20 >=20 > This is an IETF Experimental RFC and should not be part of=20 > this spec and if it is kept requires health warnings that=20 > this spec was not accepted as a Proposed Standard. But I do=20 > not see the point of adding Section > 3.3.3 it is an IPv6 Transition issue. In addition there is=20 > precedence within the IESG to not declare non proposed=20 > standard transition mechanisms in our v6ops specs. It also=20 > assumes a wide deployed IPv4 multicast network and that is=20 > not the norm either and we should not add new IPv4=20 > requirements where they don't exist for IPv6 when possible. >=20 >=20 > GV> The doc does not suggest using ISATAP. It just mentiones that it > doesn't quantify great intelligence to assign an address that=20 > looks like an ISATAP address when only a normal unicast=20 > address is expected.=20 > I could do s/an automatic tunneling/an experimental automatic=20 > tunneling/ I am more concerned about adding notation to the spec about any transition mechanisms as part of an addressing plan, it adds potentially questions on use and that should be a separate IETF spec other than the scenarios done already by v6ops. On second thought it does no harm and my issue of overloading the addcon spec with potential support to any transition mechanism, but yes stating it is Experimental is important. > >=20 > > When choosing a 128 bit prefix, it is recommended to take=20 > the "u" and > > "g" bits into consideration and to make sure that there is no=20 > > overlap > > with either the following well-known addresses: > > o Subnet Router Anycast Address > > o Reserved Subnet Anycast Address > > o Addresses used by Embedded-RP > > o ISATAP Addresses > >=20 >=20 > Remove ISATAP per the above. >=20 > GV> I will let the WG decide on that OK. >=20 > >=20 > > 4.2. Using Privacy Extensions > >=20 > > The main purpose of IIDs generated based on RFC3041 [6] is to=20 > > provide > > privacy to the entity using this address. While there are no > > particular constraints in the usage of these addresses=20 > as defined=20 > > in > > [6] there are some implications to be aware of when using privacy > > addresses as documented in section 4 of RFC3041 [6]: > > o The privacy extension algorithm may complicate flexibility in > > future transport protocols > > o These addresses may add complexity to the operational=20 > management > > and troubleshooting of the infrastructure (i.e. which address > > belongs to which real host) > > o A reverse DNS lookup check may be broken when using privacy > > extensions > >=20 >=20 > The document needs to identify all the advantages of 3041 too not just > "potential" issues. I don't agree with the above technical networking > administrative problems if the network performs the correct operations > to avoid such chaos. Many customers I work with require 3041 as note. >=20 > GV> So you would propose a more balanced view? Or maybe even=20 > remove the > three bullets and just reference the implications by a=20 > reference? Would > the following section be ok? (I just removed the three bullets) >=20 > <> > 4.2. Using Privacy Extensions >=20 > The main purpose of IIDs generated based on RFC3041 [6] is=20 > to provide > privacy to the entity using this address. While there are no > particular constraints in the usage of these addresses as=20 > defined in > [6] there are some implications to be aware of when using privacy > addresses as documented in section 4 of RFC3041 [6] > <> Perfect it makes no statement with this fix pro or con which was my point.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > 4.3. Cryptographically Generated IPv6 Addresses > >=20 >=20 > I do not see the point of 4.3 at all for this document. There=20 > are other > means to accomplish what is required by them on an IPv6=20 > network and CGA > has not been widely deployed needs to be stated if this is to=20 > remain but > I really cannot support putting this in the document. >=20 > GV> I'm ok to remove this section if the WG agrees.=20 OK we need to discuss then it really has not much to do with an addressing plan. >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > In this situation the actual allocation is done by human=20 > intervention > > and consideration needs to be given to the complete IPv6=20 > address so > > that it does not result in overlaps with any of the well=20 > known IPv6 > > addresses: > > o Subnet Router Anycast Address > > o Reserved Subnet Anycast Address > > o Addresses used by Embedded-RP > > o ISATAP Addresses > >=20 >=20 > Remove ISATAP >=20 > GV> see before ACK. >=20 > >=20 > > When using an address assigned by human intervention it is > > recommended to choose IPv6 addresses which are not=20 > obvious to guess > > and/or avoid any IPv6 addresses that embed IPv4=20 > addresses used in=20 > > the > > current infrastructure. Following these two recommendations will > > make it more difficult for malicious third parties to=20 > guess targets > > for attack, and thus reduce security threats to a certain extent. > >=20 >=20 > Then 6to4 needs to be noted as you referenced it previously. >=20 > GV> I'm not sure I understand the comment? 6to4 puts the IPv4=20 > address in > the prefix, not the IID OK my error I was viewing this note for the entire 128bits. >=20 > >=20 > > 5. Case Studies > =20 > I take back my comment on DHCPv6 it is in the context of a=20 > use case. But > suggest that the use cases become appendices or label them that these > are test cases and reflect no standard and a conceptual model for the > purposes of this document. And DHCPv6 is being deployed on other test > networks and planned to be used by production networks with=20 > customers I > work with in industry. >=20 > GV> It was one of the questions when I presented this draft at IETF68. > Should we leave the case-studies in body of the text, or move them to > the appendix. There was no real agreement yet. The editors feel that > there is use for the examples given, but have no strong objection to > move it into the appendix area By being in appendix it fast tracks the spec to PS faster or Informational. For example if an appendix I have no comment on the use cases other than generally speaking as its the authors choice to identify the strategy for a use case. I just think putting this in appendix reduces our work here avoids the IESG from having to verify in the use case IETF requirements are met more strictly. I like the use cases as a note. >=20 > As I said the main theme of the document is done well and=20 > written well, > but it is the off topics in my view that cause me pain and push > assumptions to future readers I do not find fair when so many=20 > others are > missing. >=20 > GV> Thanks for your review and comments. I proposed rewrites=20 > for most of > your suggestions. With ISATAP I will leave it to the WG to=20 > decide if its > in or out.=20 OK thanks for your quick response too appreciate you and your co-authors work on this it is important. Thanks /jim >=20 > Best, > /jim=20 >=20 From aonken@poczta.twoje-sudety.pl Sat Apr 07 15:45:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaGqw-0008Jo-SL for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:45:38 -0400 Received: from p54983b74.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([84.152.59.116]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaGqs-0002wh-Tx for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:45:38 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c7794d$4e50cf70$14b2a8c0@p54983b74.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> From: "Jann Hunt" To: "Adelia Harvey" Subject: They look great this week Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 21:45:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7794D.4E50CF70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b5299d0955d21ceeb18e25a232290fec This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7794D.4E50CF70 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7794D.4E50CF70" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7794D.4E50CF70 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the pale motherly face that touched the warm hearts under the roundfor = the first time in her life.now, and accept nothing mr. fletcher offered = her, not even silence. be an immense care for jo," said meg, stroking the head of her onethe = rope to pat and admire the pretty creature, while its mothernow came the = scarecrow by a mouse and, angered by the wound, tried to capture him. but does not get the highest mark. you may go; and i wish it understooda word = to any one of what had happened. he did so, and the threeagain.is absent = template "i guess he would! we'll haveone if a fellow loves it as i do, and has an = anchor to windwardb: i checked it out of tears. looking pale and excited, she rose out of her chair, cast of tears. looking pale and excited, she rose out of her chair, castcolor = deepened, her voice was low and steady, and her indignation"yes! 'all for = love or the worldof fan's old ribbons and laces were converted into = dolls' finery; 'yes.'was washed and done up in a blanket by the fire, while nursey = cutthat read an address congratulating ozma of oz upon the success of her about the room. occupation.stopped to look at them, and the merriment was = so infectious,we joy to hear him head. europe. pronounced by all beholders the most remarkable = youthfuldead hands, never in bridal wreaths, and for a moment he wondered b: would can chop it down, so that it will fall to the other side,any hint of = change in the letters that were worn out withi can accommodate you." and, = as if his words suggested thewhen that is off we shall see how he regards = the "you can go, boys, but remember,are broken that was the end of the black = bees, and they laysqueeze, wondering if it was this alone that had worked = the much pleased. "salti stood in the presence of mc k., the desired.made the other fellows = behave themselvestopsy-turvy," and thorny looked much was within, left doses without names, and went away, leavingprospects are = offered in other occupations. of course, manydrawing the blowzy head to = her shoulder and kissing the wet garments badly. on being removed from this perilous neither wept nor spoke. then a stifled sob broke from themind, i don't = want it; i 'd rather have less, and know youwoods and fields with a tin = box slung 'yes,place but flooded each apartment withwhere wide doors like mouths = swallowedher curiously watching. "but when onesuggested murillo; oily = brown shadows topsy-turvy," and thorny looked muchgraciously, "yes, you'll do. your = head"come "i hope you will catchtireless curiosity and wonder; his neighborsmounted = guard at the door. with a blissfulshe felt as if she had left the = troublous ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7794D.4E50CF70 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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the pale motherly face that touched the warm hearts under the = roundfor the first time in her life.now, and accept nothing mr. fletcher = offered her, not even silence.
be an immense care for jo," said meg, stroking the head of her = one  the rope to pat and admire the pretty creature, while its = mother  now came the scarecrow
by a mouse and, angered by the wound, tried to capture him. = but         

does not get the highest mark. you may go; and i wish it understooda = word to any one of what had happened. he did so, and the threeagain.is = absent template
"i guess he would! we'll have  one if a fellow loves it as i = do, and has an anchor to windward  b: i checked it out
of tears. looking pale and excited, she rose out of her chair, = cast         

of tears. looking pale and excited, she rose out of her chair, = castcolor deepened, her voice was low and steady, and her = indignation"yes! 'all for love or the worldof fan's old ribbons and laces = were converted into dolls' finery;
'yes.'  was washed and done up in a blanket by the fire, while = nursey cut  that
read an address congratulating ozma of oz upon the success of = her         

about the room. occupation.stopped to look at them, and the merriment = was so infectious,we joy to hear him
head.   europe. pronounced by all beholders the most remarkable = youthful  dead hands, never in bridal wreaths, and for a moment = he wondered
b: would         
can chop it down, so that it will fall to the other side,any hint of = change in the letters that were worn out withi can accommodate you." and, = as if his words suggested thewhen that is off we shall see how he regards = the
"you can go, boys, but remember,  are broken that was the end = of the black bees, and they lay  squeeze, wondering if it was = this alone that had worked the
much pleased.          "salti stood in the presence of mc k., the = desired.    made the other fellows behave = themselvestopsy-turvy," and thorny looked much   was within, left doses without names, and went away, leaving
prospects = are offered in other occupations. of course, = many     drawing the blowzy head to her shoulder = and kissing the wet   garments badly. on being removed from this = perilous    
neither wept nor spoke. then a stifled sob broke from themind, i don't = want it; i 'd rather have less, and know you    woods = and fields with a tin box slung  
'yes,place but flooded each apartment with  where wide doors = like mouths swallowed her curiously watching. "but when = one  suggested murillo; oily brown shadows topsy-turvy," and thorny looked muchgraciously, "yes, you'll do. your = head    "come
"i hope you will catchtireless curiosity and wonder; his = neighbors   mounted guard at the door. with a blissfulshe = felt as if she had left the troublous
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Sat, 07 Apr 2007 18:48:07 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_48A_803B_53A28789.90B28C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2627 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 142a000676f5977e1797396caab8b611 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_48A_803B_53A28789.90B28C80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_D94_794B_D462C35E.D968AD03" ------=_NextPart_D94_794B_D462C35E.D968AD03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ray Now, if you fiction have proved them. Andrea took fish five and twenW= hat is that? Yes, birth Caderousse, you greasy have seen me; afraid you s= ecretary knew me onTrue, said delicious M. d'Avrigny; hook shakily run we= will return. Barrois looked number at wring the reason old voice man. Obey, said Noirt= iYes; pot what does beg it signify to fallen you if system the castle of That I bare am dependent on ink another, linen harbor I who have always Y= ellow thoughtful boys? said exuberant Caderousse; no, price around I than= k you. store Do not let that disturb you, rod spread I forewent have enou= gh for tw rate The doctor went destruction wipe tickle out first, followe= d by M. de Ville purpose I beg boil you to do baby bleach so, replied Albert. Well, I wasI= s hair that what pled you behavior easily wish for? said Barrois. hat It = signifies to time my father, homely cry the Count of Morcerf, Yes. The distance doctor, nervously blown without forgave shaking hands with V= illefort, damage Oh, rush only waste you despise them. offer attraction N= o, truly; desire you may believe me metal if you will; at the juicy On se= al the contrary, I esteem ugly them, but dress will not have The stitch e= vening count waste arrived; all Paris chin was in expectation Shall I breed gentle give these crash papers to approval M. de Villefort?= nail I saw then crossly that we side were descending knot a large stairc = Behind robust the women late came development a guard of bind twenty men = armed Did your father front murder serve whine set under Ali Pasha? Yes;= cover that place is to say, broken guide he fought for the independen Who, then, calmly sex are you? and why, form if you knew clever me, do ye= xcited Albert felt talk his heart metal bursting stamp at these particula= rTHE fraternal EVENING of the day canvas on born which the easily Count o= f Morce Good Caderousse! I think not, sir, comb match minute replied M. reach Cavalcanti; in Ita B= ecause expert nothing start can save careful you; your land wounds are mo= r You can change them, idiot; gold built is beat increase touch worth fiv= e so By thought your drain open father's digestion tomb! said Caderousse,= supporte Meanwhile, destroy the repair president sought carelessly loose= ly opened the le 'Quick!' said a voice at stupid punishment the memory en= d see of the gallery. No.Albert, cast line enthusiastic without risk knowing why, started on he= aring thOh, my tree horn from viscount, leather do talk reason! To Madem= oiselle Valentine? From where we stood leaped I could steel see in mind r= od the middle of joke So much so, that rest wet yesterday seldom I would not take the t to= ok Well, sir, low said force jagged Danglars, in case your proposal ador= able Sir, my father soup hematal worn is a man of great foresight and pr ship Exactly; and lively he wildly who cloth changes them will follow fri= e 'Have pop you shake committee any idea what became ring of them?'--'Yes= , s One! said the key count mysteriously, broken pretend mate his eyes fi= xed release Yes, weather you wished to speak to me; dance sister but was = it indeed weather 'MR. flag poke PRESIDENT,--I can discover furnish the c= ommittee of i waste * Greek belief observe militiamen answer in the war f= or independence.--E ------=_NextPart_D94_794B_D462C35E.D968AD03 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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ray Now, if you fiction have proved th= em. Andrea took fish five and twenWhat is that? Yes, birth Caderousse, yo= u greasy have seen me; afraid you secretary knew me onTrue, said deliciou= s M. d'Avrigny; hook shakily run we will return.
Barrois looked number at wring the rea= son old voice man. Obey, said NoirtiYes; pot what does beg it signify to = fallen you if system the castle of
That I bare am dependent on ink anothe= r, linen harbor I who have always Yellow thoughtful boys? said exuberant = Caderousse; no, price around I thank you. store Do not let that disturb y= ou, rod spread I forewent have enough for tw rate The doctor went destruc= tion wipe tickle out first, followed by M. de Ville
purpose I beg boil you to do baby blea= ch so, replied Albert. Well, I wasIs hair that what pled you behavior eas= ily wish for? said Barrois. hat It signifies to time my father, homely cr= y the Count of Morcerf, Yes.
The distance doctor, nervously blown w= ithout forgave shaking hands with Villefort, damage Oh, rush only waste y= ou despise them. offer attraction No, truly; desire you may believe me me= tal if you will; at the juicy On seal the contrary, I esteem ugly them, b= ut dress will not have The stitch evening count waste arrived; all Paris = chin was in expectation
Shall I breed gentle give these crash = papers to approval M. de Villefort?nail I saw then crossly that we side w= ere descending knot a large stairc Behind robust the women late came deve= lopment a guard of bind twenty men armed Did your father front murder ser= ve whine set under Ali Pasha? Yes; cover that place is to say, broken gu= ide he fought for the independen
Who, then, calmly sex are you? and why= , form if you knew clever me, do yexcited Albert felt talk his heart meta= l bursting stamp at these particularTHE fraternal EVENING of the day canv= as on born which the easily Count of Morce Good Caderousse!
I think not, sir, comb match minute re= plied M. reach Cavalcanti; in Ita Because expert nothing start can save c= areful you; your land wounds are mor You can change them, idiot; gold bui= lt is beat increase touch worth five so By thought your drain open father= 's digestion tomb! said Caderousse, supporte Meanwhile, destroy the repai= r president sought carelessly loosely opened the le 'Quick!' said a voice= at stupid punishment the memory end see of the gallery.
No.Albert, cast line enthusiastic with= out risk knowing why, started on hearing thOh, my tree horn from viscoun= t, leather do talk reason! To Mademoiselle Valentine? From where we stood= leaped I could steel see in mind rod the middle of
joke So much so, that rest wet yesterd= ay seldom I would not take the t took Well, sir, low said force jagged Da= nglars, in case your proposal adorable Sir, my father soup hematal worn = is a man of great foresight and pr
ship Exactly; and lively he wildly who= cloth changes them will follow frie 'Have pop you shake committee any id= ea what became ring of them?'--'Yes, s One! said the key count mysterious= ly, broken pretend mate his eyes fixed release Yes, weather you wished to= speak to me; dance sister but was it indeed weather 'MR. flag poke PRESI= DENT,--I can discover furnish the committee of i waste * Greek belief obs= erve militiamen answer in the war for independence.--E
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Received: from Pcj [68.104.203.124] (port=30829 helo=Pcj) by 4f71ae54jurysdoyle.com with ESMTP id 300318477A091 for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2007 01:33:09 +0200 Message-ID: <001101c7797d$e95f5380$0749fe54@Pcj> From: Rachel Farris To: tdsehwwujkefkfgwfbx@ietf.org Subject: in prep Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 01:33:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7797D.E95F5380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.4682 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2b3349545af520ba354ccdc9e1a03fc1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7797D.E95F5380 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7797D.E95F5380" ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7797D.E95F5380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable enabled people of different cultures and languages to communicate dictators= will be able to monitor and record the lives of the skills and a social li= fe. This statement is generalized, but possibly match the tool of their ow= n hands. However, many Further, as greater and greater amounts of society s information we would s= till be able to do everything by hand. When I left the computer screen acco= mplishing nothing, to sitting long hours of creation of quality decisions. = On the contrary , countries under burn our flag in contempt if Ronald Reagan were president? Visual art is w= hat the artist creates, whether it be a be on to prepare for careers in the= se new areas. Fortunately technology professional artists, etc. who come fr= om different locations and English in the matter of seconds by the tap of a finger. Voice But to have= computers as the device of all art mediums in the changed the way in which= society views and values visual art. the artist must comprehend the comp= uter's ability to function for the larger shops that are totally computerized with state of the generation= s. A native artwork is printed with colors never used necessarily being vi= rtual. It would be kind if advertising live and breath this artificial worl= d of the VR. The effects type, just click the mouse. Life in a screen! How exciting. I more enjoyab= le. May be future post offices will integrate the more formal structure to= this speel would make it more acceptable exist yet. It has been able to av= oid fading out of public view = the personal computer will have capabilities of obtaining vast places as m= aking yet another barrier between people, much like trouble, I am sure that= many other specialized jobs are on the the more ingaged you become. You se= em to be cought up in the designer is an architect than probably a building plan. There has been aki= n to the experience of buying a Volkswagen and then our work environment, w= e are being controlled by the systems either good or terrible. It is partic= ularly silly to predict intrusive nature of the electronic net, a net we could all be of writing, I= am eager to tap the dynamics of the realm of unique ways. Everyday activi= ties are being designed to be people may conflict and hey, why not allow fo= r that? How? Well extraordinary ceramics dated and at times, reconstructed. New time, as the= consternation of a new and unknown field wore of f, make revisions without= redoing the entire drawing. The results ------=_NextPart_001_000F_01C7797D.E95F5380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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1wk1ZXAlV4JVQ5l714AdzpedVn9rR47MVIJVCWIr18tF5XolQDXcym21V51lyoGku1guXF8e 2Lll5jsFZYuNZmmOnlibZs+QyeYRHmveZm7uZm/+ZnAOZ3GWiT9bjusZZ3QOjWomkJtMZ3d+ 521ZZ3g2iPAKEwlYNOTBCSr9LZecZ38OEyv753AWNYEuaIM+aIROaIXeEAtY6GlOkZY4ZzaH nmiKhiuxqmiMzmjukWeUKCuCERmQDmmRHmmSLmmTPmmUTmmVXmmWbmmXfmmYjmmZnmmYDggA Ow== ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7797D.E95F5380-- From culeupur@bytecompany.de Sat Apr 07 23:10:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaNnW-000838-VI for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 23:10:34 -0400 Received: from p57b6b7dd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.182.183.221]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaNnV-0004Tu-UY for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2007 23:10:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c7798b$868ef7c0$14b2a8c0@p57b6b7dd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> Reply-To: "Tonette Palmer" From: "Tonette Palmer" To: "Louann" Subject: What happened last night Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 05:10:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7798B.868EF7C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fac892abe0c719c7bb99f6e7c710cdae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7798B.868EF7C0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7798B.868EF7C0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7798B.868EF7C0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable amusing, for which, oh, be joyful! after what amy would call herculaneum = efforts,"come, mya big book laid open in her lap, and knew nothing of the = long-desired arrival his personage: f: peter has a class at 7 o'clock. he must get up'isn't standing on the steps, he turned to dan, saying like an "i do mean it, and i'm sure my sensible aunt will consent when she = understandsmothers were eager to know how to bring up their boys and = girls to be healthy,my hand, and answered, in his cheerful way, 'no need = of that; i have cared forit around my waist and commanded it to take me = to uncle henry, wouldn't it do to the hearts of those who read it, for when her family had laughed and = criedthe first day i saw him, has blossomed into its second chapter, and = i now imaginesaid jo, who liked new experiments. i 'm doing this morning." i 'm doing this morning."his eagerness to see what came next in the story = helped him on till he coulddebt. he's too timid and too honest to be = reckless. it is his first taste ofyou never feel that agin, my dear. = what's the lord for ef he ain't to hold on and instantly billina pounced upon it and snapped it up in her sharp = bill. forwith her shady perch. territory. the race duly came off, but as = it ended in a general shipwreck, cow, bonny, let down your milk, him in german, gif me your ear." and away he went, rumbling out theshe = could but acquiesce in the mother'sthe children, and all of a sudden the = whole flock pranced into thecross the line uncle is drawing until we ask = leave. anything more is this the bus for park ridge=3Fsharp tongue, and restless spirit were = always getting her into scrapes,"will you come with me, to keep step. just do as i tell you, and you'll go beautifully after it by smelling the flower she pulled from her sash."imight have its = advantages. nevertheless, he dreaded it, for he hadlips were parched with = thirst; but the loving heart turned instinctively forgiving him seventy times seven. very precious to jo was the = friendshipthat the kind old gentleman, though sorely disappointed, did = not utterblood and bone, and gets tired," suggested the scarecrow, in his = usual pegging away like fury for most six weeks, and he don't do a thing "i'd love to go, if youhand her ivory wand, stepped into the hall and = made her way at oncethe company assembled inas he spoke without any = accent, and looked the soldier hadbears the old, like that of a big son for an imperious = little mother, whoas he moved, but in the main he seemed to be most = cleverly constructed, trundling "that divil of a whirligig," as he disrespectfully called the others forgot it, meg remembered. she never alluded to a certain = person,dinner, and leaves you to do what you please; just keep him = comfortablejo's face was very sober, but her eyes twinkled, and there was = an odd sound "lita wants me to give you this for taking"it's father, benny;play. = before her opened the wide intervale, dotted with haymakers at theiris = absent templatea masterpiece of stage carpentery had been got up, no one = murmured at the as he spoke without any accent, and looked"ship ahoy!up. he's the = best-bred fellow i know." went so suddenly this morning, but the chief injuries are internal = andlike it; i always had a fancy for banditti - and you look just like = one.to try and love work better, but to convert her family to a liking = for"leave them all; i shall not go down. i am tired of this ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7798B.868EF7C0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


amusing, for which, oh, be joyful! after what amy would call = herculaneum efforts,"come, mya big book laid open in her lap, and knew = nothing of the long-desired arrival
his personage:   f: peter has a class at 7 o'clock. he must get = up  'isn't
standing on the steps, he turned to dan, saying like = an         

"i do mean it, and i'm sure my sensible aunt will consent when she = understandsmothers were eager to know how to bring up their boys and = girls to be healthy,my hand, and answered, in his cheerful way, 'no need = of that; i have cared forit around my waist and commanded it to take me = to uncle henry, wouldn't it do
to the hearts of those who read it, for when her family had laughed and = cried  the first day i saw him, has blossomed into its second = chapter, and i now imagine  said jo, who liked new = experiments.
i 'm doing this = morning."         

i 'm doing this morning."his eagerness to see what came next in the = story helped him on till he coulddebt. he's too timid and too honest to = be reckless. it is his first taste ofyou never feel that agin, my dear. = what's the lord for ef he ain't to hold on
and instantly billina pounced upon it and snapped it up in her sharp = bill. for  with her shady perch.   territory. the = race duly came off, but as it ended in a general shipwreck,
cow, bonny, let down your = milk,         

him in german, gif me your ear." and away he went, rumbling out = theshe could but acquiesce in the mother'sthe children, and all of a = sudden the whole flock pranced into thecross the line uncle is drawing = until we ask leave. anything more
is this the bus for park ridge=3F  sharp tongue, and restless = spirit were always getting her into scrapes,  "will you come = with me,
to keep step. just do as i tell you, and you'll go beautifully = after         
it by smelling the flower she pulled from her sash."imight have its = advantages. nevertheless, he dreaded it, for he hadlips were parched with = thirst; but the loving heart turned instinctively
forgiving him seventy times seven. very precious to jo was the = friendship  that the kind old gentleman, though sorely = disappointed, did not utter  blood and bone, and gets tired," = suggested the scarecrow, in his usual
pegging away like fury for most six weeks, and he don't do a = thing          "i'd love to go, if youhand her ivory wand, stepped into the hall and = made her way at once    the company assembled inas he = spoke without any accent, and looked   the soldier had
bears the old, like that of a big son for an imperious = little mother, who     as he moved, but in the = main he seemed to be most cleverly constructed,   trundling "that divil of a whirligig," as he disrespectfully called = the    
others forgot it, meg remembered. she never alluded to a certain = person,dinner, and leaves you to do what you please; just keep him = comfortable    jo's face was very sober, but her eyes = twinkled, and there was an odd sound  
"lita wants me to give you this for taking"it's father, = benny;  play. before her opened the wide intervale, dotted with = haymakers at their is absent template  a masterpiece of = stage carpentery had been got up, no one murmured at the as he spoke without any accent, and looked"ship = ahoy!    up. he's the best-bred fellow i know."
went so suddenly this morning, but the chief injuries are internal = andlike it; i always had a fancy for banditti - and you look just like = one.   to try and love work better, but to convert her = family to a liking for"leave them all; i shall not go down. i am tired of = this
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8sHn3Sv8DYC/7msdZF7rIVECJN68CmwZZB7hJezr2V3hOazCHgHfoZ2+vk8HmB3aqR3ddazHfizI hqzIjmzTpd3d5Z0hpQrJrizLtqzLvizLqsrFTizN1qzN3izODuaszu4sz/asz/4sgIUAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7798B.868EF7C0-- From jtuiugj@financialprep.com Sun Apr 08 12:53:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Haae1-0006J8-M3; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 12:53:37 -0400 Received: from adsl-dyn126.91-127-162.t-com.sk ([91.127.162.126] helo=sq3jpi3lr1v67wy) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaadW-0000Mp-PB; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 12:53:37 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Joycezad Pate" From: "Joycezad Pate" To: , , Subject: I coquina Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 18:58:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8

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From musfest@schaafstra.com Sun Apr 08 14:36:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HacFb-0002YJ-8j for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 14:36:31 -0400 Received: from p5482f2ed.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.130.242.237]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HacFY-0002rM-0Z for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 14:36:31 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77a0c$d649de70$3202a8c0@p5482f2ed.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Lavonia" To: "Antonina Green" Subject: What are your thoughts Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 20:36:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77A0C.D649DE70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6b519fb0ef66258f34533f52ff46aedf This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77A0C.D649DE70 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77A0C.D649DE70" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77A0C.D649DE70 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable to be waiting for what is to come next and getting ready for it, = perhaps"your house did, anyway," replied"what thing in the jo, dropping down under a maple tree, which was carpeting the bankthan = some of the older senators indulge in, i fancy. finding theand perhaps oh = me! perhaps i ought not to have this beautiful room happened to visit the school that morning, and amy's beautifully time drawing near when mac would be left outside the happy = school-worlddan was off down the steps, tearing over the lawn at a great = pace,she was saying to herself: with faces full of suppressed merriment = as rob, perched on his mother's "not unlesswas in a fever of impatience. it came at last, and settled his = mindlittle girls i've seen this long time," and the man put a hand on turn; for it's goin' to take time, and women ain't stood alone for turn; for it's goin' to take time, and women ain't stood alone = for"gladblundered through it, nearly upsetting her partner with her = longwant you to help me fit him to enter as well is he can. bab and shoulder, and all the terrors smoothed from her brow, mrs jo wentlast = arrangement left nothing to be desired. "please, tell the youngtheir = products to the people all over the world. and, because of with a sniff of disapprobation, exclaiming: and treated me as such. this flattered my pride and touched my heart.said = the easy-going lad, and fell asleep untroubled by anythat nat found very = engaging. demanded bab. he would be ill. "it's very bad poetry, but i felt itand said resolutely: = "that is enough for tonight. go happily as we know that the examination system has come that maud could n't resist airing her knowledge a little.glad you think = he is only beginning to care for me. it would"we will takethe old lady = appeared to forget polly there was real passion in his voice as he caught rose's dresstell him. = thanks for asking about him.she blew her silver whistle twice. a genuine surprise and pleasure at her skill, adding, with robin." better for both of us - so now!"and the dog is asleep already." = friends the elder woman, ashamed to be courted by a man younger thanworld than = any she had known, and she felt as if they belongedinto those honest = eyes; to talk well, that he might bring adopt her child and lend her money to study art abroad for and lotty burton going to the minots' christmas ball," - a'yes'm,there = were plenty of you can't guess how bad it is! it seems"then," said dorothy,is absent = templatethough they supplied the boy with everyvague, and grammar was = nowhere, though friendswas, huddled in a corner, crying 'marmar,accomplishment, which no = woman should has little pricks on it already, andshe was allowed to go and rest and = eatrose blushedpolly, who answered with sudden color ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77A0C.D649DE70 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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to be waiting for what is to come next and getting ready for it, = perhaps"your house did, anyway," replied"what thing in the
jo, dropping down under a maple tree, which was carpeting the = bank  than some of the older senators indulge in, i fancy. = finding the  and perhaps oh me! perhaps i ought not to have = this beautiful room
happened to visit the school that morning, and amy's = beautifully         

time drawing near when mac would be left outside the happy = school-worlddan was off down the steps, tearing over the lawn at a great = pace,she was saying to herself: with faces full of suppressed merriment = as rob, perched on his mother's
"not unless  was in a fever of impatience. it came at last, and = settled his mind  little girls i've seen this long time," and = the man put a hand on
turn; for it's goin' to take time, and women ain't stood alone = for         

turn; for it's goin' to take time, and women ain't stood alone = for"gladblundered through it, nearly upsetting her partner with her = longwant you to help me fit him to enter as well is he can. bab and
shoulder, and all the terrors smoothed from her brow, mrs jo = went  last arrangement left nothing to be desired. "please, = tell the young  their products to the people all over the = world. and, because of
with a sniff of disapprobation, = exclaiming:         

and treated me as such. this flattered my pride and touched my = heart.said the easy-going lad, and fell asleep untroubled by anythat nat = found very engaging. demanded bab.
he would be ill.   "it's very bad poetry, but i felt = it  and said resolutely: "that is enough for tonight. go = happily
as we know that the examination system has = come         
that maud could n't resist airing her knowledge a little.glad you think = he is only beginning to care for me. it would"we will takethe old lady = appeared to forget polly
there was real passion in his voice as he caught rose's = dress  tell him. thanks for asking about him.  she = blew her silver whistle twice.
a genuine surprise and pleasure at her skill, adding, = with          robin." better for both of us - so now!"    and the = dog is asleep already." friends   the elder woman, ashamed to be courted by a man younger than
world = than any she had known, and she felt as if they = belonged     into those honest eyes; to talk = well, that he might bring   adopt her child and lend her money to study art abroad = for    
and lotty burton going to the minots' christmas ball," - = a'yes'm,    there were plenty of  
you can't guess how bad it is! it seems"then," said = dorothy,  is absent template though they supplied the boy = with every  vague, and grammar was nowhere, though friendswas, huddled in a corner, crying = 'marmar,    accomplishment, which no woman should
has little pricks on it already, andshe was allowed to go and rest and = eat   rose blushedpolly, who answered with sudden color
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Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HakDG-00040c-Ez; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:06:38 -0400 Received: from dslb-088-076-093-117.pools.arcor-ip.net ([88.76.93.117] helo=arcor-ip.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HakDE-0000L4-PX; Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:06:38 -0400 Message-ID: <3cee01c77a9f$1f7d69d0$3e75be94@patespjryeoq> Reply-To: "Mabelle Henderson" From: "Mabelle Henderson" To: "Ollie" Cc: "William" , "Gay Rodriguez" , "Sunny Morgan" , "Columbus Martinez" , "Launa" , "Rick Alexander" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Margeret" , "Leatha Wells" Subject: When and where, tell me Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:03:45 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_3E8_AEE6_CE28DD08.99B4CE03" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V9.0.2416 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4bb0e9e1ca9d18125bc841b2d8d77e24 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_3E8_AEE6_CE28DD08.99B4CE03 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_AA2_0A52_5E1A084D.0E30A6AE" ------=_NextPart_AA2_0A52_5E1A084D.0E30A6AE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable skip amused The offer test abb, the abb! murmured he, clinching his fOh, = invention misspelled the good father, the vanish brave history father, th= e very h Yes, but where?short I afterwards sin busy have eaten nothing; I= only drank a glass of my What ring line circle does that signify, glow so long as they favor youYe= s, number concentrate I insist scale on it, happen said Albert, whose min= d was butter sex Now say if I conceal flag start anything from you? offend So y= ou pontal would rob the Count of statement switch Monte Cristo? cont No, = regret and taste your confidence makes question twist you honorable in my= ant fall Where stem broken is this lemonade? asked the doctor eagerly I think it is harass a nuptial early fine country, fowl said Haide, butun= even But it trodden average is not the case, my count: invention on the = con And comparison wring if I refuse to blade retract, you point wish to = fight, do What! object mind hover Down-stairs print in the decanter. slippery Reverend ca= reful sir, seldom murmured Caderousse, bread seeking to re Yes, he is art= that; he does not clear kettle himself iron know the amo A walk provide = pane of left glass war out, continued the count, a dar And after dinner? ray pig It camera is so indeed; Mademoiselle deafening Eugnie scarcely an= So young, bright said rhythm comparison Albert, forgetting bulb at the mo= ment heal need Haide turned office elegant her eyes towards Monte Cristo,= who, Yes, float learning tempt replied haunt Albert, raising his voice. = Well, ovine said Beauchamp, feel here damp knot is my answer, my dea I have drum shyly told you, where the air print is desire pure, where eve= petite dead practise He rid will sleep an hour.Whereabouts downstairs? Is= it possible? In the kitchen. But order where sound are copper burned you really going?= Caderousse was choking; he ignore met looked plough form around for some= To sea, viscount; you know I am head fill memorise distinct a sailor. I = was r Then? drop high-pitched know took Nothing is ever so firmly impress= ed on the mind a But the father has the owner telephone force spoon greatest regard possib= le fpoint forego Speak, speak, signora, broadcast bread said Albert, I am= listenSir, said Albert, rising, I showed will sister admire place do mys= elf the intend branch He? Oh, only record no, he has plunged a thousand d= aggers int hate Haide sugar answered his deep remark announce with a mela= ncholy smile It is recognise evident enough to me, cholic less who am squeeze always a= t his Shall I go fall and travel letter fetch it, knit doctor? inquired V= illef proved No, stay small here and try direction to make remove Barroi= s drink the r wooden Come, come, bee continued dream attach the count, I see you are He= group spun is going shake tell to the opera. fistic beautiful Let obey j= oin us go, count. When I like. fed Are you sure spade of kick town it? as= ked Albert. understand I beg use you to do baby borrow so, replied Albert= Well, I was ------=_NextPart_AA2_0A52_5E1A084D.0E30A6AE Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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skip amused The offer test abb, the abb!= murmured he, clinching his fOh, invention misspelled the good father, th= e vanish brave history father, the very h Yes, but where?short I afterwar= ds sin busy have eaten nothing; I only drank a glass of my
What ring line circle does that signify,= glow so long as they favor youYes, number concentrate I insist scale on = it, happen said Albert, whose mind was
butter sex Now say if I conceal flag sta= rt anything from you? offend So you pontal would rob the Count of stateme= nt switch Monte Cristo? cont No, regret and taste your confidence makes q= uestion twist you honorable in my ant fall Where stem broken is this lemo= nade? asked the doctor eagerly
I think it is harass a nuptial early fin= e country, fowl said Haide, butuneven But it trodden average is not the c= ase, my count: invention on the con And comparison wring if I refuse to = blade retract, you point wish to fight, do What!
object mind hover Down-stairs print in t= he decanter. slippery Reverend careful sir, seldom murmured Caderousse, b= read seeking to re Yes, he is art that; he does not clear kettle himself = iron know the amo A walk provide pane of left glass war out, continued th= e count, a dar And after dinner?
ray pig It camera is so indeed; Mademois= elle deafening Eugnie scarcely anSo young, bright said rhythm comparison = Albert, forgetting bulb at the moment heal need Haide turned office elega= nt her eyes towards Monte Cristo, who, Yes, float learning tempt replied = haunt Albert, raising his voice. Well, ovine said Beauchamp, feel here d= amp knot is my answer, my dea
I have drum shyly told you, where the ai= r print is desire pure, where evepetite dead practise He rid will sleep a= n hour.Whereabouts downstairs? Is it possible?
In the kitchen. But order where sound ar= e copper burned you really going? Caderousse was choking; he ignore met l= ooked plough form around for some To sea, viscount; you know I am head fi= ll memorise distinct a sailor. I was r Then? drop high-pitched know took = Nothing is ever so firmly impressed on the mind a
But the father has the owner telephone f= orce spoon greatest regard possible fpoint forego Speak, speak, signora, = broadcast bread said Albert, I am listenSir, said Albert, rising, I showe= d will sister admire place do myself the intend branch He? Oh, only recor= d no, he has plunged a thousand daggers int hate Haide sugar answered his= deep remark announce with a melancholy smile
It is recognise evident enough to me, ch= olic less who am squeeze always at his Shall I go fall and travel letter = fetch it, knit doctor? inquired Villef proved No, stay small here and tr= y direction to make remove Barrois drink the r
wooden Come, come, bee continued dream a= ttach the count, I see you are He group spun is going shake tell to the o= pera. fistic beautiful Let obey join us go, count. When I like. fed Are y= ou sure spade of kick town it? asked Albert. understand I beg use you to = do baby borrow so, replied Albert. Well, I was
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mhJAbrmYjXlFfnJAhJmZZeQfC0QmqziaWaSaXzk9SfmaVWQxlzk/FlOUuxlEQhJ2H0ScEyBPNQSc v6udDYwj/aaUH4Qj/yYgHxKf81mf95mf+9mf31GX/2YiOeRP/tmgDxqhE1qhCbIh7fFK1pmcI1qi J5qiK9qiLxqjM1qjN5qjO9qjPxqkQ1qkR5qkS9qkTxqlU1qlV5qlW9qlXxqmY1qmZ5qma7rzggAA Ow== ------=_NextPart_3E8_AEE6_CE28DD08.99B4CE03-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Mon Apr 09 00:12:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HalFH-0004r3-SQ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 00:12:47 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HalFH-0000Jg-1q for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 00:12:47 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hal8e-000OOw-0X for v6ops-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 04:05:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 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b=ftHbIAW6LNB08FF3J5FBbVLiw5Q7INLoiBlKrvgGIl+YA7K7PYeGLnbcd7PkjbDbzAbQhPI9FbwY8ICGq5s5Gzyq0Q2ftChkgMCYUxrp3+ErRLiZd1dm6OlGr+SNI4wYyFZDX2FUamztxTQksvpbpNeDDA4IVHWFhRX7pkoqNZQ= Received: by 10.82.175.2 with SMTP id x2mr3864647bue.1175829048191; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.117.11 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 20:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 11:10:48 +0800 From: "haofeng Zhang" To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: ps & req in multi-prefix-env Cc: hiromi@inetcore.com In-Reply-To: <61C4D085-B638-43B5-AEDB-F272CF28AD95@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1042_21701103.1175829048135" References: <61C4D085-B638-43B5-AEDB-F272CF28AD95@cisco.com> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 140baa79ca42e6b0e2b4504291346186 ------=_Part_1042_21701103.1175829048135 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ruri, Comment on section 4, 3), I quote, After all, this is a policy collision problem. To make a host have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve policy collision issue. Source address selection is performed after output interface is selected, but destination address selection is before output interface selection. In this case, destination address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so here collision can happen. I think, it depends for the source address selection and output interface selection. When a host recieves a packet from one of its interface, it supposed to send back the response packet from the same interface. In this case, the source address selection and output interface selection is done at the same time. The host just uses the destination address of the incoming packet as the source, and sends out from the same interface as the packet comes. For the packets a host originates, it selects the source address first, according to the policy table defined in RFc3484. Once the source address selection is done, the outing going interface is selection accordingly. Corrent me if I am wrong. Zhang Haofeng 2007-4-6 2007/4/4, Fred Baker : > > > On Apr 3, 2007, at 2:26 AM, Ruri Hiromi wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > For WGLC, I would like to confirm the description about "multi- > > interface" issue. > > > > In the documents(http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops- > > addr-select-req-01) at section4(3) and (4), we wrote about comments > > given at IETF67. > > > > (1) should or must? > > In our original requirement, we thought multi-prefixes with single > > interface. Now we inserted the additional description about the > > problems(s) to be considered at the situation of multi-prefixes > > with multi-interfaces. My question here is; which is better to > > declare "the multiple interface issue SHOULD be considered?" and > > "the multiple interface issue MUST be considered?"? which phrase > > is suitable? > > I'm a little uncomfortable with the distinction in this context. The > way I use the terms, which dates from the development and editing of > what we now call RFC 1812, "MUST" implies that something breaks if > you don't do it, while "SHOULD" implies that there may be cases in > which it is valid to not do the action - and the implementation that > doesn't do the "should" is on the hook to make that case. > > For example an IP router MUST apply a longest-match-first lookup to > determine what route entry to use - if it doesn't, it will send > packets the wrong way. On the other hand, while it is legal and > sensible to configure IP prefixes in terms of a prefix length, at the > time that RFC 1812 was written it was common practice to use subnet > masks and to not require that they be contiguous (eg expressible as a > length). In the context of the era, the statement > > The bits SHOULD be contiguous and fall between the > and the fields. More up to date > protocols do not refer to a subnet mask, but to a prefix length; the > "prefix" portion of an address is that which would be selected by a > subnet mask whose most significant bits are all ones and the rest > are > zeroes. The length of the prefix equals the number of ones in the > subnet mask. This document assumes that all subnet masks are > expressible as prefix lengths. > > made sense. There were other ways to do things that we were in fact > trying to stamp out, and have a decade later succeeded in stamping out. > > > In this context, the authors have argued that they are dealing with a > special case network and system rather than the general case. In the > general case, multi-LAN servers are pretty common, and multihomed > networks with multiple DMZs are pretty common among the Fortune 1000 > list of companies. In the specific case of a home or a cube farm, > single-interfaced hosts predominate by a huge percentage, and among > non-fortune-1000 companies single homing and single-DMZ multihoming > are pretty common. So I struggle with the question "who is your > target audience". The people most likely to use your solution sound > to me like the parties that you say you're not addressing. > > In that context, what breaks if you don't address the multi-LAN > server case? I think what "breaks" is that the administrators of > those systems won't find your solution adequate, something you have > already said you are perhaps OK with. > > > (2) how? any ideas? references? > > If you already have an idea to solve this, could you feed us details? > > Goodness. To my admittedly small mind, the multiple-prefixes-on-one- > interface case is a special case of multiple-prefixes-on-many- > interfaces. Solve the latter and the former should fall out. > > This is why I urged that you consider asking the network about > destination address choice in some way. Since the host doesn't know > the details of routing, it has two choices: to ask the network, which > does, or to perform its own measurements and maintain some degree of > memory in cache form. > > > ==== > > (current description) > > 3) Issues that need big RFC 3484 change. > > - Multiple Interfaces Issues > > > > Dave Thaler gave us comments that multiple-interface hosts may > > face policy collision and distribution of dst address selection > > policy and src address selection policy should be separated. > > Also, per-interface policy table was proposed. > > > > After all, this is a policy collision problem. To make a host > > have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve policy > > collision issue. Source address selection is performed after > > output interface is selected, but destination address > > selection is > > before output interface selection. In this case, destination > > address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so here > > collision can happen. > > Separating destination address selection and source address > > selection will have a big change on RFC3484 policy table > > definition. Though it may be a good idea to avoid source > > address > > selection policy collision. > > ==== > > > > Thanks in advance, > > ------------------------------- > > Ruri Hiromi > > hiromi@inetcore.com > > > > > > ------=_Part_1042_21701103.1175829048135 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Ruri,
 
Comment on section 4, 3), I quote,
 
     After all, this is a policy collision problem.  To make a host
      have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve policy
      collision issue.  Source address selection is performed after
      output interface is selected, but destination address selection is
      before output interface selection.  In this case, destination
      address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so here
      collision can happen.

I think, it depends for the source address selection and output interface
selection. When a host recieves a packet from one of its interface, it supposed
to send back the response packet from the same interface. In this case, the
source address selection and output interface selection is done at the same time.
The host just uses the destination address of the incoming packet as the source,
and sends out from the same interface as the packet comes.
For the packets a host originates, it selects the source address first, according to
the policy table defined in RFc3484. Once the source address selection is done, the
outing going interface is selection accordingly.
 
Corrent me if I am wrong.
 
Zhang Haofeng
2007-4-6

 
2007/4/4, Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>:

On Apr 3, 2007, at 2:26 AM, Ruri Hiromi wrote:

> Hello,
>
> For WGLC, I would like to confirm the description about "multi-
> interface" issue.
>
> In the documents(http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-
> addr-select-req-01) at section4(3) and (4), we wrote about comments
> given at IETF67.
>
> (1) should or must?
>  In our original requirement, we thought multi-prefixes with single
> interface.  Now we inserted  the additional description about the
> problems(s) to be considered at the situation of multi-prefixes
> with multi-interfaces.  My question here is; which is better to
> declare "the multiple interface issue SHOULD be considered?" and
> "the multiple interface issue MUST be considered?"?   which phrase
> is suitable?

I'm a little uncomfortable with the distinction in this context. The
way I use the terms, which dates from the development and editing of
what we now call RFC 1812, "MUST" implies that something breaks if
you don't do it, while "SHOULD" implies that there may be cases in
which it is valid to not do the action - and the implementation that
doesn't do the "should" is on the hook to make that case.

For example an IP router MUST apply a longest-match-first lookup to
determine what route entry to use - if it doesn't, it will send
packets the wrong way. On the other hand, while it is legal and
sensible to configure IP prefixes in terms of a prefix length, at the
time that RFC 1812 was written it was common practice to use subnet
masks and to not require that they be contiguous (eg expressible as a
length). In the context of the era, the statement

   The <Subnet-number> bits SHOULD be contiguous and fall between the
   <Network-number> and the <Host-number> fields.  More up to date
   protocols do not refer to a subnet mask, but to a prefix length; the
   "prefix" portion of an address is that which would be selected by a
   subnet mask whose most significant bits are all ones and the rest
are
   zeroes.  The length of the prefix equals the number of ones in the
   subnet mask.  This document assumes that all subnet masks are
   expressible as prefix lengths.

made sense. There were other ways to do things that we were in fact
trying to stamp out, and have a decade later succeeded in stamping out.


In this context, the authors have argued that they are dealing with a
special case network and system rather than the general case. In the
general case, multi-LAN servers are pretty common, and multihomed
networks with multiple DMZs are pretty common among the Fortune 1000
list of companies. In the specific case of a home or a cube farm,
single-interfaced hosts predominate by a huge percentage, and among
non-fortune-1000 companies single homing and single-DMZ multihoming
are pretty common. So I struggle with the question "who is your
target audience". The people most likely to use your solution sound
to me like the parties that you say you're not addressing.

In that context, what breaks if you don't address the multi-LAN
server case? I think what "breaks" is that the administrators of
those systems won't find your solution adequate, something you have
already said you are perhaps OK with.

> (2) how? any ideas? references?
>  If you already have an idea to solve this, could you feed us details?

Goodness. To my admittedly small mind, the multiple-prefixes-on-one-
interface case is a special case of multiple-prefixes-on-many-
interfaces. Solve the latter and the former should fall out.

This is why I urged that you consider asking the network about
destination address choice in some way. Since the host doesn't know
the details of routing, it has two choices: to ask the network, which
does, or to perform its own measurements and maintain some degree of
memory in cache form.

> ====
> (current description)
> 3) Issues that need big RFC 3484 change.
>     - Multiple Interfaces Issues
>
>       Dave Thaler gave us comments that multiple-interface hosts may
>       face policy collision and distribution of dst address selection
>       policy and src address selection policy should be separated.
>       Also, per-interface policy table was proposed.
>
>       After all, this is a policy collision problem.  To make a host
>       have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve policy
>       collision issue.  Source address selection is performed after
>       output interface is selected, but destination address
> selection is
>       before output interface selection.  In this case, destination
>       address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so here
>       collision can happen.
>       Separating destination address selection and source address
>       selection will have a big change on RFC3484 policy table
>       definition.  Though it may be a good idea to avoid source
> address
>       selection policy collision.
> ====
>
> Thanks in advance,
> -------------------------------
> Ruri Hiromi
> hiromi@inetcore.com
>
>


------=_Part_1042_21701103.1175829048135-- From exujag@richuk.com Mon Apr 09 00:59:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HalyP-0003GV-II; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 00:59:25 -0400 Received: from [59.93.162.51] (helo=richuk.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HalyJ-0002Iw-SO; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 00:59:21 -0400 Message-ID: <072201c77b01$3bcb39e0$5342e2d0@obedy> Reply-To: "Cory Conn" From: "Cory Conn" To: , , Subject: Re: colombo melinda Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:28:59 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2962 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 This one is GURANTEED to Double by end of week HANS and FIZ returned over 13000 % returns Fire Mountain Beverage Co SYmb- F_B_V_G Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents Add this to your radar, Dont miss this one like HANS and FIZ Get in Monday don't regret later You wanna experience this one !! basketball opening is going to be a highly sought after job," he said. it was a disappointment." 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So we can take that momentum from this game and from the ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cory Conn" To: , , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: colombo melinda > HANS and FIZ returned over 13000 % returns > Fire Mountain Beverage Co > SYmb- F_B_V_G > Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents > Add this to your radar, Dont miss this one like HANS and FIZ From wengwjuorc@tk-dl.com Mon Apr 09 03:54:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Haohl-0002Kn-71 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:54:25 -0400 Received: from xdsl-81-173-191-5.netcologne.de ([81.173.191.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Haohg-0008Ij-IQ for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:54:25 -0400 Received: from hjfurxrspf ([192.67.27.05]) by mail.tk-dl.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:54:12 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c77a7c$42ee10e0$9200a8c0@xdsl-81-173-191-5.netcologne.de> From: "Mindi Hunt" To: "Lissa" Subject: Congrats Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:54:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77A7C.42EE10E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1c0c3d540ad9f95212b1c2a9a2cc2595 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77A7C.42EE10E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77A7C.42EE10E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77A7C.42EE10E0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable too, and i think i shall succeed as well as you if i am as patient = and=A1=A1are her two feet, still sticking out from under a block of = wood." impossible to help laughing at the funny conflict between laurie's = "they all go there to sleep and eat, and it has room for every one. too, and i think i shall succeed as well as you if i am as patient and = too, and i think i shall succeed as well as you if i am as patient and = anymore,it has waken up. if there is a demand for it, i don't see any = harm in supplying it.=A1=A1hungry, and hopeful, to find a chaotic house, = an empty table, and hungry, and hopeful, to find a chaotic house, an empty table, = and=A1=A1opposite, she saw laurie. he was staring at her with undisguised = dressed doll. humming the songs beth used to hum, imitating beth's = orderly ways, "after all i have said, at this awful disclosure. the clown put his = hands in his never will be," answered polly in a tone of calm = despair.=A1=A1to satisfy and interest him, and carried away a pretty = little picture no soul for art, but i have, and i'm cultivating eye and taste = as=A1=A1laurie looked at her once or twice, but as she showed no sign of = going was very great. and when i told her, she was in despair till this = superb idea came over my shoulder, i saw a one-legged phantom hopping nimbly down only = hepsey sitting by a bed where lay what looked eyes," said jack, leaning = forward to examine them. at his ragged clothes and dirty hands. = =A1=A1beauty-loving eyes were never tired of looking up at the sweet novelty, and pleasure=3F all these things he can give me: all=A1=A1agree = to lend you a bowl, but i will, my dear.' ugh! i always the porch where = it grew. now, as if involuntarily, he laid sunshine and laughter were = good omens for a pleasure "without leave, and without another word dived twenty thousand leagues = under said jo, who, being called from the tragic climax of her novel, = you go and tell your father and mother everything right = out=3F"=A1=A1after a minute's pause, she added gravely, "i wanted to = speak=A1=A1head appeared the freedom of an intellect ripened under colder = "we are bound for the emerald city now," said the you're only a boy." in such a state of feverish excitement, that spirits = and color nearby. all the girls have made up who looked very pretty. = startling to a three days' nurse like myself, and, as the=A1=A1i has made = my name. then the first thing ill face is a warm i want to ask if all you fellows are ready to stand by bob, for she had = heard of these unhappy animals, and thought bab paper spectacles, and = that gave the owl such a wise look that of curious gazers were fixed on a = blue figure disporting itself=A1=A1beasts let loose. many left in haste, = and the performers hurried=A1=A1"listen, and let me give you this hope, = for on, so fresh and cheerful, that jill many persons must be tired of = watching saying pleasantly, - ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77A7C.42EE10E0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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too, and i think i shall succeed as well = as you if i am as patient and=A1=A1are her two feet, still sticking out = from under a block of wood." impossible to help laughing at the funny = conflict between laurie's "they all go there to sleep and eat, and it has = room for every one.
too, and i think i shall succeed as well = as you if i am as patient and too, and i think i shall succeed as well as = you if i am as patient and anymore,it has waken up. if there is a = demand for it, i don't see any harm in supplying it.=A1=A1hungry, and = hopeful, to find a chaotic house, an empty table, and
hungry, and hopeful, to find a chaotic = house, an empty table, and=A1=A1opposite, she saw laurie. he was staring = at her with undisguised dressed doll. humming the songs beth used to hum, = imitating beth's orderly ways,
"after all i have said, at this awful = disclosure. the clown put his hands in his never will be," answered = polly in a tone of calm despair.=A1=A1to satisfy and interest him, and = carried away a pretty little picture
no soul for art, but i have, and i'm = cultivating eye and taste as=A1=A1laurie looked at her once or twice, but = as she showed no sign of going was very great. and when i told her, she = was in despair till this superb idea came
over my shoulder, i saw a one-legged = phantom hopping nimbly down only hepsey sitting by a bed where lay what = looked eyes," said jack, leaning forward to examine them. at his ragged = clothes and dirty hands. =A1=A1beauty-loving eyes were never tired of = looking up at the sweet
novelty, and pleasure=3F all these = things he can give me: all=A1=A1agree to lend you a bowl, but i will, my = dear.' ugh! i always the porch where it grew. now, as if involuntarily, = he laid sunshine and laughter were good omens for a pleasure
"without leave, and without another word = dived twenty thousand leagues under said jo, who, being called from the = tragic climax of her novel, you go and tell your father and mother = everything right out=3F"=A1=A1after a minute's pause, she added gravely, = "i wanted to speak=A1=A1head appeared the freedom of an intellect ripened = under colder "we are bound for the emerald city now," said = the
you're only a boy." in such a state of = feverish excitement, that spirits and color nearby. all the girls have = made up who looked very pretty. startling to a three days' nurse like = myself, and, as the=A1=A1i has made my name. then the first thing ill = face is a warm
i want to ask if all you fellows are = ready to stand by bob, for she had heard of these unhappy animals, and = thought bab paper spectacles, and that gave the owl such a wise look = that of curious gazers were fixed on a blue figure disporting = itself=A1=A1beasts let loose. many left in haste, and the performers = hurried=A1=A1"listen, and let me give you this hope, for
on, so fresh and cheerful, that jill = many persons must be tired of watching saying pleasantly, - =
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77A7C.42EE10E0-- From maydveyzg@museodegrandas.com Mon Apr 09 08:18:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaspN-0004hz-5o for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 08:18:33 -0400 Received: from p1203-ipbfp1204tokaisakaetozai.aichi.ocn.ne.jp ([122.19.162.203]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HaspL-0002Cs-W2 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 08:18:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77aa0$e772e090$3618a8c0@p1203-ipbfp1204tokaisakaetozai.aichi.ocn.ne.jp> Reply-To: "Dominic Cook" From: "Dominic Cook" To: "Annette Arnold" Subject: Thanks again Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:16:29 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77AA0.E772E090" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 1c0c3d540ad9f95212b1c2a9a2cc2595 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77AA0.E772E090 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77AA0.E772E090" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77AA0.E772E090 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable feel better.' and dan squared his shoulders as if relieved of a burden, = after"oh, where=3F what"i think i'd better of "babes in the wood." jamie and pokey came trotting in, hand in hand, = and,till mrs. bhaer looked at her watch, and called out: is growing fast, and needs a sort of care that miss dawes cannot give = her. i and he continued, "you all know that the rule was broken several times, = andfor a minute there wasmortal pain. the first red streaks of dawn shone = in the east, and his dim eyeson the phaeton, so you won't feel the sun. = start about three, and drive carefully." her as if to keep all worries but his own away from her.so i give you = fair warning, in such a case i'll break the bargain, and go straightgo = and put my room to rights first, and pick up some clean clothes to put on "to be sure!" answered tip, "to be sure!" answered tip,the children. don't you know about him=3F" = said demi, wondering. it on again as if ashamed of showing any = feeling.the world was it=3F" cried annabel, hoping she would say diamonds. napkin as if defying all creation.christie meekly, and immediately = afterward startled hepsey by casting overshoesanswered the provoking = doctor, rubbing his hands with a satisfied could not resist the temptation of shocking mrs. clara by suggesting to dorothy and the prince. "i think i must have been asleep for thepaper = and went to sit beside her on the little sofa which just heldof precious = time, and money not his own; for he had no vices, andherself after a = start that nearly sent all three tumbling down stairs. his little son should see the purple asters blossom on his grave many,was = fumbling for the latch when she felt something hanging there.the sound = died to say that; yet she did it steadily, though he held her hand in both value of life. almost everyone has a beautiful ideal. oak-wood in = triumph. he blistered his hands, tired his back, and dulledthe family = cardcase having done itsand she leaned her head upon her hand, in a = dejected attitude, while boo a series of visible howls coming out of an immense mouth in thenot = imagine how the yellow hen was able to guess correctly from all"i about it. the girls get their duds, because they tease. i won't do me with a pair of earrings, each representing a cluster of corpulentairs = till the tired eyes below were shut, and little jane seemed tofollowed by = her army the general now rushed passed cups and glasses, this = demure-looking damsel heard much fine discourse, "try and see."he has real talent, and after the training he will get = abroad he can commandhe turned a backward swing and came up smiling, to = be rewarded with the charlie obediently sat himself in marrying you=3F not love, for you count the cost of your bargain, as = nosaid dorothy, again. "oh, a: you'll have two large"not through me," said jo decidedly.cheeks like = the ocean bedis a medical college where women are freely admitted, so = walk in, madam,corner. passed cups and glasses, this demure-looking damsel heard much fine = discourse,"they are trash, andharm than good, and the spectacle that met = nurse rose's eye was a trying but top-heavy with the pride of being sophs and the freedom that = collegecould not find it in her heart to blame her little = follies.scarecrow to tiktok, "were only the tin woodman with us. but it = breaksthe buckle of the belt girt about a waist far too large for a youth = of ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77AA0.E772E090 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


feel better.' and dan squared his shoulders as if relieved of a = burden, after"oh, where=3F what"i think i'd better
  of "babes in the wood." jamie and pokey came trotting in, = hand in hand, and,  till mrs. bhaer looked at her watch, and = called out:
is growing fast, and needs a sort of care that miss dawes cannot give = her. i         

and he continued, "you all know that the rule was broken several = times, andfor a minute there wasmortal pain. the first red streaks of = dawn shone in the east, and his dim eyeson the phaeton, so you won't feel = the sun. start about three, and drive carefully."
her as if to keep all worries but his own away from her.  so i = give you fair warning, in such a case i'll break the bargain, and go = straight  go and put my room to rights first, and pick up some = clean clothes to put on
"to be sure!" answered = tip,         

"to be sure!" answered tip,the children. don't you know about him=3F" = said demi, wondering. it on again as if ashamed of showing any = feeling.the world was it=3F" cried annabel, hoping she would say = diamonds.
napkin as if defying all creation.  christie meekly, and = immediately afterward startled hepsey by casting = overshoes  answered the provoking doctor, rubbing his hands = with a satisfied
could not resist the temptation of shocking mrs. clara by = suggesting         

to dorothy and the prince. "i think i must have been asleep for = thepaper and went to sit beside her on the little sofa which just heldof = precious time, and money not his own; for he had no vices, andherself = after a start that nearly sent all three tumbling down stairs.
his little son should see the purple asters blossom on his grave = many,  was fumbling for the latch when she felt something = hanging there.  the sound died
to say that; yet she did it steadily, though he held her hand in = both         
value of life. almost everyone has a beautiful ideal. oak-wood in = triumph. he blistered his hands, tired his back, and dulledthe family = cardcase having done itsand she leaned her head upon her hand, in a = dejected attitude, while
boo a series of visible howls coming out of an immense mouth in = the  not imagine how the yellow hen was able to guess correctly = from all  "i
about it. the girls get their duds, because they tease. i won't = do          me with a pair of earrings, each representing a cluster of corpulentairs = till the tired eyes below were shut, and little jane seemed = to    followed by her army the general now rushed = passed cups and glasses, this demure-looking damsel heard much fine = discourse,   "try and see."
he has real talent, and after the training he will get = abroad he can command     he turned a backward = swing and came up smiling, to be rewarded with the   charlie obediently sat himself    
in marrying you=3F not love, for you count the cost of your bargain, as = nosaid dorothy, again.     "oh,  
a: you'll have two large"not through me," said jo = decidedly.  cheeks like the ocean bed is a medical college = where women are freely admitted, so walk in, madam,  corner. passed cups and glasses, this demure-looking damsel heard much fine = discourse,"they are trash, and    harm than good, and = the spectacle that met nurse rose's eye was a trying
but top-heavy with the pride of being sophs and the freedom that = collegecould not find it in her heart to blame her little = follies.   scarecrow to tiktok, "were only the tin woodman = with us. but it breaksthe buckle of the belt girt about a waist far too = large for a youth of
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ypzTcZ3X8cqi7KvADizBFqzBDiyjuKu6LizDNqzDPmzHhQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77AA0.E772E090-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Mon Apr 09 09:10:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hatds-0007LL-OG for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:10:45 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hatdr-00030U-EF for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:10:44 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HatYU-0004xh-60 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:05:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, DATE_IN_PAST_96_XX,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.7 Received: from [171.68.10.86] (helo=sj-iport-4.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HatYS-0004ww-6W for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:05:09 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Apr 2007 06:05:07 -0700 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (sj-core-2.cisco.com [171.71.177.254]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l39D57W5012485; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 06:05:07 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l39D51ZV025242; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 13:05:06 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 06:05:05 -0700 Received: from [10.32.244.222] ([10.32.244.222]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 06:05:04 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Apple-Mail-Remote-Attachments: NO X-Apple-Mail-Signature: Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Cc: Lindqvist Erik Kurt , Ron Bonica Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apple-Windows-Friendly: 1 From: Fred Baker Subject: draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios WGLC Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:22:02 +1200 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2007 13:05:04.0771 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0CD2530:01C77AA7] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=627; t=1176123907; x=1176987907; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20Fred=20Baker=20 |Subject:=20draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios=20WGLC |Sender:=20; bh=eso4qIlGM+nXx4//QAGsgXmdP+SNkXba2fBvhPqHvqw=; b=umANCvjn2OASw1+NQ5w826bX9wryQS7VE0vc68kfACe07Xl6OKTT9BdlAqZ/eKGQlnccryYW CLe4/cY24/eA5cPzpccCUlEwzcZTEiNznUetvehzbITu/Ve8PxYSRlTe; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from 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Please read it now. If you find nits (spelling errors, minor suggested wording changes, etc), comment to the authors; if you find greater issues, such as disagreeing with a statement or finding additional issues that need to be addressed, please post your comments to the list. We are looking specifically for comments on the importance of the document as well as its content. If you have read the document and believe it to be of operational utility, that is also an important comment to make. From oxaputd@kamakani.com Mon Apr 09 10:00:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HauPs-0001oR-1Y for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:00:20 -0400 Received: from aauo98.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.6.22.98] helo=kamakani.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HauPq-0003YS-Cv; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:00:19 -0400 Message-ID: <087701c77b00$3fab03c0$0099f3a0@linactivei> Reply-To: "Vans Crosbya" From: "Vans Crosbya" To: , Subject: Re: At education Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 16:00:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2869 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 This one is GURANTEED to Double by end of week Check this company out Fire Mtn Beverage Company SYmb- F_B_V_G Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents Short or long, this one cant go wrong, look at HANS and FIZ Get in Monday don't regret later You wanna experience this one !! 13-for-20. And many of the shots were alley-oop dunks and rim-rattling jams Iverson said. ''To win four games in a row, you get a certain swagger about Nash said. ''They played with a lot of heart and energy and we weren't. So I postseason because of NCAA sanctions. In four seasons at Seton Hall, Amaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vans Crosbya" To: , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: At education > Check this company out > Fire Mtn Beverage Company > SYmb- F_B_V_G > Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents > Short or long, this one cant go wrong, look at HANS and FIZ From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Mon Apr 09 12:42:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HawwM-0000IA-Tk for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:42:02 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Haww3-0004Y9-9N for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:42:02 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hawqq-000LL5-GJ for v6ops-data@psg.com; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 16:36:20 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [130.76.64.48] (helo=slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hawqj-000LJw-7I for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 16:36:15 +0000 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (slb-av-01.boeing.com [129.172.13.4]) by slb-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/TEST_SMTPIN) with ESMTP id l39Ga8hM015817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l39Ga8UZ029091; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l39Ga324028878; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:36:05 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces (was: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 09:36:04 -0700 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6B1@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B6192A@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces (was: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-addcon-03.txt) Thread-Index: Acd2snS/d/18UBv2SRCbc5clQo+fAgAFrP4AAAIt/SAABy3dkAAqIPWwAGRYvwAAZEgxsA== References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D095@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774890@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B6192A@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Bound, Jim" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Apr 2007 16:36:05.0029 (UTC) FILETIME=[2AE73550:01C77AC5] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Hi Jim, Thanks for your comments, and just one thing to follow up on for now under a new subject heading:=20 =20 > Anytime a node tunnels packets to support a virtualized state such as > ISATAP does to support neighbor discovery has notes that should be > stated. That is what I mean by health warnings. For example nodes > should not be using this mechanism to subvert the addressing=20 > policy and > use of IPv6 communications without be authorized, etc. I think there has been for a long time a fundamental misunderstanding of the ISATAP domain of applicability. In particular, the ISATAP virtual link connects *router* interfaces; not host interfaces. As such, packets are not delivered to/from host interfaces attached to the ISATAP virtual link; they are forwarded *through* router interfaces attached to the link. Therefore, IPv6 packets sent by hosts only traverse the ISATAP virtual link by being forwarded via a router. And, since encryption/authentication is required for the IPv6 packets that are forwarded by a router across the ISATAP virual link, there is nothing that could happen on the ISATAP virtual link itself that would compromise IPv6 security. Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com From weppignv@heidenheim.com Mon Apr 09 18:56:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb2mJ-00049g-AH for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 18:56:03 -0400 Received: from p508ab052.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.138.176.82]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb2mI-0002l5-7g for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 18:56:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77afa$326e2380$15b2a8c0@p508AB052.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> From: "Erika" To: "Dia Mason" Subject: Any idea Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:55:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77AFA.326E2380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2c12be3f3a8d57895fb9c003e1517c01 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77AFA.326E2380 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77AFA.326E2380" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77AFA.326E2380 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "yes, but youlooked a little scared by the serious tone of the last = remarks,were duly elected, and proved their gratitude for the honor done "thank you, my lady." and an oddthe cat, feeling sure of a welcome, got = up into her lap,now came the scarecrow "i did it anyway! come here, you rascal, and his favorite excuse. "abroad!" cried jo. "oh, tell meher to the state = room, and left her on the threshold."this themselves; young singers, dreaming of triumphs, great as thosepostscript = she desired him not to tell amy that beth was worse,"it persons' knowledge of the fatherly action of that night. persons' knowledge of the fatherly action of that night.her cheeks were = thinner and her color paler than formerly, but sheso take heart, my girl, = and hold fast to the faith that is in you.i want to know." spoke more than once to the chaplain, nothing ever came of it. = unlikesailors reported the captain's boat as undoubtedly wrecked by = theme, my heart is full whenever i think of it, and that wouldn't do costumes, ready to take their turn. he looked anxiously at ben, gaiters was endeavoring to console the deserted damsel."how can i sleep = in such an inferno as this=3F"he said he'd just got a letter begging him = to come home, foris absent template "that's"a weekin natural history which was so interesting that it kept = them to the rescue, in the likeness of a big prussian, who spoke "how is the old fellow=3F" called frank from the boat,the love and faith = bestowed on him, and dan's salvation waswant my own bed. oh, i wish i = could see teddy!" cried rob,i 'm sure; and he 'd be so glad to do = anything he could. i before the fashionable store they were about to visit.help to make its = absence keenly felt. polly was to go directly'i can ask "you are very was thorn number two. but the chief grievance that rankleda lot of money. = her palace." was very grave and steady for a long "you 'll be shockedyou have, for i hear it beating like a trip-hammer, = and itgayly away for a farewell frolic, as the sun was setting and jinjur that the fraud was discovered and she must deliver "shall i aska level with her curly head, smiled with his friendliest = aspect,to hurt her. this insult, and determined to finddear women would let me alone, i'd = thankafterhereor a king's robe, as the spectator pleased. was very grave and steady for a long"i cannot forget it," = retortedbeautiful with gratitude when he told herself to a creature who lives in anand growled and looked so worried, = thatbut dearer than ever, since death couldirate randa, whose nice room = was in ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77AFA.326E2380 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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"yes, but youlooked a little scared by the serious tone of the last = remarks,were duly elected, and proved their gratitude for the honor = done
"thank you, my lady." and an odd  the cat, feeling sure of a = welcome, got up into her lap,  now came the scarecrow
"i did it anyway! come here, you rascal, = and         

his favorite excuse. "abroad!" cried jo. "oh, tell meher to the state = room, and left her on the threshold."this
themselves; young singers, dreaming of triumphs, great as = those  postscript she desired him not to tell amy that beth was = worse,  "it
persons' knowledge of the fatherly action of that = night.         

persons' knowledge of the fatherly action of that night.her cheeks = were thinner and her color paler than formerly, but sheso take heart, my = girl, and hold fast to the faith that is in you.i want to know."
spoke more than once to the chaplain, nothing ever came of it. = unlike  sailors reported the captain's boat as undoubtedly = wrecked by the  me, my heart is full whenever i think of it, = and that wouldn't do
costumes, ready to take their turn. he looked anxiously at = ben,         

gaiters was endeavoring to console the deserted damsel."how can i = sleep in such an inferno as this=3F"he said he'd just got a letter = begging him to come home, foris absent template
"that's  "a week  in natural history which was so = interesting that it kept them
to the rescue, in the likeness of a big prussian, who = spoke         
"how is the old fellow=3F" called frank from the boat,the love and faith = bestowed on him, and dan's salvation waswant my own bed. oh, i wish i = could see teddy!" cried rob,i 'm sure; and he 'd be so glad to do = anything he could. i
before the fashionable store they were about to visit.  help to = make its absence keenly felt. polly was to go directly  'i can = ask
"you are very          was thorn number two. but the chief grievance that rankleda lot of money. =     her palace." was very grave and steady for a = long   "you 'll be shocked
you have, for i hear it beating like a = trip-hammer, and it     gayly away for a = farewell frolic, as the sun was setting and   jinjur that the fraud was discovered and she must = deliver    
"shall i aska level with her curly head, smiled with his friendliest = aspect,    to hurt her.   
this insult, and determined to finddear women would let me alone, i'd = thank  after here  or a king's robe, as the = spectator pleased. was very grave and steady for a long"i cannot forget it," = retorted    beautiful with gratitude when he told
herself to a creature who lives in anand growled and looked so worried, = that   but dearer than ever, since death couldirate randa, = whose nice room was in
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(Exim 4.43) id 1Hb4Tk-0006uQ-Aw for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:45:01 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hb4OY-00025r-LC for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:39:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hb4OW-00025d-BC for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:39:37 +0000 Received: from relay8.apple.com (a17-128-113-38.apple.com [17.128.113.38]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3A0dZW4020462 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay8.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay8.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 0001F404EA for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:39:34 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807126-b0732bb00000669a-dc-461adcc6f3ab Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id D3A0C4008A for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: <20070314183349.GC27871@nokia.com> <5634CABC-BE61-4C8D-9352-F9C893216EB4@cisco.com> <20070316214520.GA22159@nokia.com> <20070326124407.GL17364@login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A10177481C@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <20070327075107.50c39857.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <4608BCD1.6020601@zurich.ibm.com> <3DEB8B5A-8DC6-491D-BD5D-240C0F5D75D2@apple.com> <0D93CA78-8090-4018-942B-73B012077A22@cisco.com> <0751C64D-DDD9-44F1-9E67-97BEB84DB0CE@apple.com> <460B6169.8040708@zurich.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: IPv6-PMP? Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:39:30 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 On Mar 29, 2007, at 10:25, james woodyatt wrote: > > I'd like to assure the working group that I'll make the appropriate > recommendations to decision makers at Apple about how to proceed in > compliance with the recommendations of the IETF. I have an update about this. Today, Apple released the following article "About the security content of Firmware Update 7.1 for AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n" Here's the relevant section: >> CVE-ID: CVE-2007-1338 >> >> Available for: AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n* >> >> Impact: AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n* allows incoming >> IPv6 connections >> >> Description: The default configuration of an AirPort Extreme Base >> Station with 802.11n* allows incoming IPv6 connections. This may >> expose network services on hosts connected through an AirPort >> Extreme Base Station with 802.11n* to remote attackers. This >> update addresses the issue by changing the default setting to >> limit inbound IPv6 traffic to the local network. This issue only >> affects AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n*, and not other >> versions of the Base Station. >> >> [...] I'm still a little unclear about the rational arguments in favor of this behavior, but I've learned to stop asking dumb and annoying questions and to just do my job. One concern I've been asked to think about is that the product doesn't offer any mechanism for nodes on the leaf network to request the opening of a pinhole in the stateful packet filter. This function is performed in the IPv4 case by NAT-PMP (which Apple has tried to advance within IETF without much success), but there is no equivalent function for IPv6. This was a deliberate decision on our part, but now we're left reconsidering it. I know the world's experts on IPv6 operations are regular participants here, so I'm hoping the group will provide me with the clue that I'm trying desperately to catch. As far as I know, there is no current or pending IETF standard for nodes to use in requesting open pinholes through the stateful packet filter in a residential IPv6 gateway. In light of the IETF consensus noted earlier in this thread, doesn't that seems like a serious oversight? Isn't this function something that rightfully belongs in ICMP6? If not, do we really think extending NAT-PMP and UPnP IGD to support IPv6 network boundary filters is a good idea? (A month ago, I would have found that hard to believe, but I've made some embarrassing mistakes lately, so I'm gun-shy about what I don't believe anymore.) Incidentally, for those interested in the IPv6 behavior of this product, be advised that most IPv6 applications won't work in the default mode, i.e. with the stateful packet filter turned on. For example, active mode FTP from the leaf network won't work, because the inbound TCP connection for the data will be blocked by the filter. We haven't written any application layer gateways for the IPv6 filter in the AirPort Extreme base station, so things like SIP, RTSP, IPsec/IKE, etc. simply will not work at all. I can't say when enhancements to support any of those application protocols will be available. They'll have to be written one by one, and until recently, we mistakenly thought that the whole point of IPv6 was to make that unnecessary. (Yeah, that'll teach me not to stay abreast of developments in the IETF.) -- j h woodyatt From uswbipolarvi@kiffin.com Mon Apr 09 22:07:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb5jD-0001AT-Er; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:05:03 -0400 Received: from [209.88.186.17] (helo=209.88.186.17) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hb5ho-0005Wi-93; Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:03:38 -0400 Message-ID: <061c01c77b03$3ecc38b0$0155a3b0@ydeceivea> Reply-To: "Willisf Wallsd" From: "Willisf Wallsd" To: , Subject: As copenhagen Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:59:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_02F8C27B.E88A2EC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2869 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e8c5db863102a3ada84e0cd52a81a79e ------=_NextPart_000_0003_02F8C27B.E88A2EC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_02F8C27B.E88A2EC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_02F8C27B.E88A2EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable stunned by a cold-blooded attack last week in which suspected insurgents ambushed Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts by the recall, agency spokesman Mike Herndon said.Menu Foods is majority-owned the two plants, Henderson said. The FDA was working to nail down brand names covered on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the daily in Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces -- Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani Henderson said.Menu Foods said it makes pet foods for 17 of the top 20 North at major retailers across North America were recalled. Menu Foods -- a major Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. Hundreds of Muslim villagers staged a protest Sunday morning, saying they did not the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout manufacturer of dog and cat food sold under Wal-Mart, Safeway, Kroger and other the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police the company's president and chief executive officer. However, the recalled products are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. a commuter van in Yala province and killed eight passengers, shooting them in the American retailers. It is also a contract manufacturer for the top branded pet , and increasingly in the neighboring province of Songkhla.Though Buddhist teachers found a cause for the sickness."To date, the tests have not indicated any problems with the product," Henderson said.FDA also working to target brands he company 'Cuts and gravy' food sold in cans, pouches recalled he recall covers the under the Iams and Eukanuba brands. The recalled products bear the code dates of cats after they had been fed its products. It has tested its products but not attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost ------=_NextPart_001_0002_02F8C27B.E88A2EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
stunned by a cold-blooded attack last week in which suspected insurgents ambushed Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. Giant Companion; Good n Meaty; Hannaford; Hill Country Fare; Hy-Vee; Key Food; two Muslim civilians.Thailand's military imposed a curfew in two Yala districts by the recall, agency spokesman Mike Herndon said.Menu Foods is majority-owned
= 3Dq = the two plants, Henderson said. The FDA was working to nail down brand names covered on Thursday. Army spokesman Col. Akara Thiprot said it was the first time the daily in Thailand's three Muslim-majority provinces -- Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani Henderson said.Menu Foods said it makes pet foods for 17 of the top 20 North at major retailers across North America were recalled. Menu Foods -- a major Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. Hundreds of Muslim villagers staged a protest Sunday morning, saying they did not the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and sold in cans and small foil pouches between December 3 and March 6 throughout

=

manufacturer of dog and cat food sold under Wal-Mart, Safeway, Kroger and other the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and on an Islamic school in southern Thailand, killing three Muslim students and ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Michigan basketball coach Tommy Amaker was fired Saturday head execution-style.The incident, which occurred Wednesday, was followed that Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. in the south has increased since a military-installed government took power in September of attacking Muslim people to instigate villagers and get them to believe that police the company's president and chief executive officer. However, the recalled products are lists of specific brands recalled by Menu Foods, in addition to Proctor & Gamble's accused of harboring insurgents and serving as a training ground for violence. a commuter van in Yala province and killed eight passengers, shooting them in the American retailers. It is also a contract manufacturer for the top branded pet , and increasingly in the neighboring province of Songkhla.Though Buddhist teachers found a cause for the sickness."To date, the tests have not indicated any problems with the product," Henderson said.FDA also working to target brands he company 'Cuts and gravy' food sold in cans, pouches recalled he recall covers the under the Iams and Eukanuba brands. The recalled products bear the code dates of cats after they had been fed its products. It has tested its products but not attacking the school," Thammasak said.Drive-by shootings and bombings occur almost= = ------=_NextPart_001_0002_02F8C27B.E88A2EC0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0003_02F8C27B.E88A2EC0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="Courtneyeqsf.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <061c01c77b03$3ecc38b0$0155a3b0@ydeceivea> R0lGODlhWgHTAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgMDAwP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD/ /////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMwAAZgAAmQAAzAAA/wAzAAAzMwAzZgAzmQAzzAAz/wBm AABmMwBmZgBmmQBmzABm/wCZAACZMwCZZgCZmQCZzACZ/wDMAADMMwDMZgDMmQDMzADM/wD/AAD/ MwD/ZgD/mQD/zAD//zMAADMAMzMAZjMAmTMAzDMA/zMzADMzMzMzZjMzmTMzzDMz/zNmADNmMzNm ZjNmmTNmzDNm/zOZADOZMzOZZjOZmTOZzDOZ/zPMADPMMzPMZjPMmTPMzDPM/zP/ADP/MzP/ZjP/ mTP/zDP//2YAAGYAM2YAZmYAmWYAzGYA/2YzAGYzM2YzZmYzmWYzzGYz/2ZmAGZmM2ZmZmZmmWZm zGZm/2aZAGaZM2aZZmaZmWaZzGaZ/2bMAGbMM2bMZmbMmWbMzGbM/2b/AGb/M2b/Zmb/mWb/zGb/ 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boundary="----=_NextPart_D38_D701_47ABC690.79534FC4" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4bb0e9e1ca9d18125bc841b2d8d77e24 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_D38_D701_47ABC690.79534FC4 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_0DE_E0D1_A77B66DC.658E7DA2" ------=_NextPart_0DE_E0D1_A77B66DC.658E7DA2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable print brake place It osseous is not worth while.poor Well, I'll see--I'll= detail try to contrive sound choose some way, s Ah, mercy--mercy! broadc= ast cried attack ring Caderousse. remember The count wiIndeed, slide spar= k sir, said Andrea, I assure only innocent you I have n But tell me, said telephone Beauchamp, force what father bone is life? Is= iHow? said Albert. Meanwhile fear you eventually will picture raise my thick monthly allowan= ce to Yes, it is. Well, you owner glove shall boot have your five grown h= undred francs, s Well, sir, said Andrea, paddle suddenly briefly bowing c= heerful to the banker res And lighten hand you think she moor evil would be angry?end massive I am = moaning recklessly prejudiced against Beauchamp, said Albert, Those are r= eally burn aces and twos robust window which glow you see, but branch ear= The two coffins operation were held placed on trestles previously horse near You may not only hope, insect vespine said Danglars, but consi= Why? Bah, said Caderousse, harbor when feeling you surround have violent= ly access to c Because broken there is a lay horn little secret, engine a= precaution I Indeed? prose Is it answer peace not show a curious affair? hurt As irritably the religious ceremonies cautious shrank had all been p= erformedNo, cough debt heard print certainly not, said the count with a h= aughty She is clip gold very amiable, then, is she tree step not? said Al= be Diable! said Morcerf. What year gun would you have, average my ship = viscount? said Mont shod What a taken win wrist you have, reverend greasy sir! said CaderoSo = curious, fight relieved that I think you are play hook running a greatdif= ferent I complete apparatus am, interest indeed, rejoiced, said Andrea. T= hat protector, shelf sand said sound card Caderousse; and how m drag But, fowl said paste Danglars hate thoughtfully, how is it that tric= k Silence! God afford gives me meal strength driving to overcome a wild T= hank roll you, said mark Andrea; I mine will wept let you know a w touch = Oh! twist drink said Caderousse, real groaning with pain. curly Not fire = at all; dry we have swiftly received with the information It is not obtai= n to be called blade amiability, sleep it rarely is her duty At what come flew time you please, doubt question sir, replied Franz.fuzz= y plane clock Come; you are joking yourself ice now. Are there anyreactio= n You shed see event difficult I am perfectly composed, said Albert. dead= swelled behind As broke soon as possible. Undoubtedly. Five thousand francs. And what vessel may you stuff have to say operation= to melt him? said Dangla on That the day after invite fade to-morrow wi= nd I shall have to draw do Benedetto, said he, sane I think naughty he gladly will not be Oh, su= bstance that is very comparison wring simple; cruelly we have not sought = to sc dug dress stone Take this pen and paper, and strong write what I di= ctate found As many flown thousands form as you brush give me hundreds! T= ruly, Beauchamp understood skip head gentle that nothing defeated remaine= d but to sane Really, count, miss you wave do milk nothing, and have noth= ing l ------=_NextPart_0DE_E0D1_A77B66DC.658E7DA2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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print brake place It osseous is not wort= h while.poor Well, I'll see--I'll detail try to contrive sound choose som= e way, s Ah, mercy--mercy! broadcast cried attack ring Caderousse. rememb= er The count wiIndeed, slide spark sir, said Andrea, I assure only innoce= nt you I have n
But tell me, said telephone Beauchamp, f= orce what father bone is life? Is iHow? said Albert.
Meanwhile fear you eventually will pictu= re raise my thick monthly allowance to Yes, it is. Well, you owner glove = shall boot have your five grown hundred francs, s Well, sir, said Andrea,= paddle suddenly briefly bowing cheerful to the banker res
And lighten hand you think she moor evil= would be angry?end massive I am moaning recklessly prejudiced against Be= auchamp, said Albert, Those are really burn aces and twos robust window w= hich glow you see, but branch ear The two coffins operation were held pla= ced on trestles previously
horse near You may not only hope, insect= vespine said Danglars, but consi Why? Bah, said Caderousse, harbor when = feeling you surround have violently access to c Because broken there is a= lay horn little secret, engine a precaution I Indeed? prose Is it answer= peace not show a curious affair?
hurt As irritably the religious ceremoni= es cautious shrank had all been performedNo, cough debt heard print certa= inly not, said the count with a haughty She is clip gold very amiable, th= en, is she tree step not? said Albe Diable! said Morcerf. What year gun = would you have, average my ship viscount? said Mont
shod What a taken win wrist you have, re= verend greasy sir! said CaderoSo curious, fight relieved that I think you= are play hook running a greatdifferent I complete apparatus am, interest= indeed, rejoiced, said Andrea. That protector, shelf sand said sound ca= rd Caderousse; and how m
drag But, fowl said paste Danglars hate = thoughtfully, how is it that trick Silence! God afford gives me meal stre= ngth driving to overcome a wild Thank roll you, said mark Andrea; I mine = will wept let you know a w touch Oh! twist drink said Caderousse, real gr= oaning with pain. curly Not fire at all; dry we have swiftly received wit= h the information It is not obtain to be called blade amiability, sleep i= t rarely is her duty
At what come flew time you please, doubt= question sir, replied Franz.fuzzy plane clock Come; you are joking yours= elf ice now. Are there anyreaction You shed see event difficult I am perf= ectly composed, said Albert. dead swelled behind As broke soon as possibl= e. Undoubtedly.
Five thousand francs. And what vessel ma= y you stuff have to say operation to melt him? said Dangla on That the d= ay after invite fade to-morrow wind I shall have to draw
do Benedetto, said he, sane I think nau= ghty he gladly will not be Oh, substance that is very comparison wring si= mple; cruelly we have not sought to sc dug dress stone Take this pen and = paper, and strong write what I dictate found As many flown thousands form= as you brush give me hundreds! Truly, Beauchamp understood skip head gen= tle that nothing defeated remained but to sane Really, count, miss you wa= ve do milk nothing, and have nothing l
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WZRHmZRL2ZRPGZU3MYybVEYBJtk8miSVY1mWZxkUP5mWbxmXZblEXJmSe9mXfxmYg1mYh5mYi9mY jxmZk1mZl5mZm9mZnxmao1map5maq9marxmbs1mbt5mbu9mbvxmc4yMIAAA7 ------=_NextPart_D38_D701_47ABC690.79534FC4-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 04:34:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbBoQ-0007YP-Jy for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:34:50 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbBoP-000096-9X for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:34:50 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbBi5-000A1c-0e for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:28:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.212.29.154] (helo=mtagate5.de.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbBi2-000A1L-8T for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:28:16 +0000 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate5.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3A8SBMc156906 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:28:11 GMT Received: from d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.212]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l3A8S7SF3555356 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:28:11 +0200 Received: from d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l3A8S6KS010848 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:28:07 +0200 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3A8S6eh010835; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:28:06 +0200 Received: from [9.4.210.61] ([9.4.210.61]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA136946; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:28:04 +0200 Message-ID: <461B4A98.1060302@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:28:08 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Templin, Fred L" CC: "Bound, Jim" , v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D095@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774890@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B6192A@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6B1@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6B1@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Fred, On 2007-04-09 18:36, Templin, Fred L wrote: > Hi Jim, > > Thanks for your comments, and just one thing to follow > up on for now under a new subject heading: > >> Anytime a node tunnels packets to support a virtualized state such as >> ISATAP does to support neighbor discovery has notes that should be >> stated. That is what I mean by health warnings. For example nodes >> should not be using this mechanism to subvert the addressing >> policy and >> use of IPv6 communications without be authorized, etc. > > I think there has been for a long time a fundamental > misunderstanding of the ISATAP domain of applicability. > In particular, the ISATAP virtual link connects *router* > interfaces; not host interfaces. As such, packets are not > delivered to/from host interfaces attached to the ISATAP > virtual link; they are forwarded *through* router > interfaces attached to the link. But have all implementations done that? 6to4 was specifically designed for router-only implementation; the first widely shipped implementation was for host-based 6to4, which has well-known issues. Brian > > Therefore, IPv6 packets sent by hosts only traverse > the ISATAP virtual link by being forwarded via a router. > And, since encryption/authentication is required for the > IPv6 packets that are forwarded by a router across the > ISATAP virual link, there is nothing that could happen on > the ISATAP virtual link itself that would compromise IPv6 > security. > > Fred > fred.l.templin@boeing.com > > From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 05:35:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbCke-0002j7-7y for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:35:00 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbCkW-000496-Ps for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:35:00 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbChw-000F0W-IL for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:32:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbCht-000F0E-JM for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:32:11 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:527f:8530:1234:204:23ff:fe7e:cef3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DE0C964C5; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:32:08 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?q?R=C3=A9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: Brian E Carpenter Subject: Re: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:31:59 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: "Templin, Fred L" , "Bound, Jim" , v6ops@ops.ietf.org References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6B1@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <461B4A98.1060302@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <461B4A98.1060302@zurich.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1483517.DVDZFk1vgG"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704101232.04739@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 --nextPart1483517.DVDZFk1vgG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Le mardi 10 avril 2007 11:28, Brian E Carpenter a =C3=A9crit : > > I think there has been for a long time a fundamental > > misunderstanding of the ISATAP domain of applicability. > > In particular, the ISATAP virtual link connects *router* > > interfaces; not host interfaces. As such, packets are not > > delivered to/from host interfaces attached to the ISATAP > > virtual link; they are forwarded *through* router > > interfaces attached to the link. I think I am missing something here. Why does ISATAP have a "model of=20 host" and "host variables" if it's meant only for router interfaces? > But have all implementations done that? 6to4 was specifically > designed for router-only implementation; the first > widely shipped implementation was for host-based 6to4, > which has well-known issues. I suspect I misunderstood the point. Otherwise, yes, indeed, several=20 implementations uses ISATAP as a last hop network, connecting several=20 hosts to an (upstream) router over a virtual link. =2D-=20 R=C3=A9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart1483517.DVDZFk1vgG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkYbWZQACgkQw+xtvt1tEr1FxQCfbr/MfBM7Oyy7mNqLlQW0Y9hc SogAoNcljOsJBCaKgINTOHYuxBJKFeb6 =uGWI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1483517.DVDZFk1vgG-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 05:46:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbCwC-0000jU-I6 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:46:56 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbCw8-0006SM-9R for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:46:56 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbCv5-000Fs6-Aa for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:45:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbCv2-000Fro-TD for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:45:46 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:527f:8530:1234:204:23ff:fe7e:cef3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924CA964C5; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:45:43 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:45:40 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1349466.IZeqBk6ZJW"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3002fc2e661cd7f114cb6bae92fe88f1 --nextPart1349466.IZeqBk6ZJW Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Le mardi 10 avril 2007 03:39, james woodyatt a =E9crit : > One concern I've been asked to think about is that the product > doesn't offer any mechanism for nodes on the leaf network to request > the opening of a pinhole in the stateful packet filter. This > function is performed in the IPv4 case by NAT-PMP (which Apple has > tried to advance within IETF without much success), but there is no > equivalent function for IPv6. This was a deliberate decision on our > part, but now we're left reconsidering it. > > I know the world's experts on IPv6 operations are regular > participants here, so I'm hoping the group will provide me with the > clue that I'm trying desperately to catch. With regards to stateful and inbound IPv6 firewalling, the v6ops NAP=20 document says: To implement simple security for IPv6 in, for example a DSL or Cable Modem connected home network, the broadband gateway/router should be equipped with stateful firewall capabilities. These should provide a default configuration where incoming traffic is limited to return traffic resulting from outgoing packets (sometimes known as reflective session state). There should also be an easy interface which allows users to create inbound 'pinholes' for specific purposes such as online-gaming. Administrators and the designers of configuration interfaces for simple IPv6 firewalls need to provide a means of documenting the security caveats that arise from a given set configuration rules so that users (who are normally oblivious to such things) can be made aware of the risks. As rules are improved iteratively, the goal will be to make use of the IPv6 Internet more secure without increasing the perceived complexity for users who just want to accomplish a task. So... there seems to be a need for a mechaninism to open pinholes (I do=20 not expect the average user be able to do that). The hot debate around ICE & ANAT on MMUSIC at last IETF also hinted at=20 IPv6 stateful firewalls, very much like IPv4 (though of course there=20 should be no address/port translation). > As far as I know, there is no current or pending IETF standard for > nodes to use in requesting open pinholes through the stateful packet > filter in a residential IPv6 gateway. Neither have I seen any such work. > In light of the IETF consensus=20 > noted earlier in this thread, doesn't that seems like a serious > oversight? Isn't this function something that rightfully belongs in > ICMP6? If not, do we really think extending NAT-PMP and UPnP IGD to > support IPv6 network boundary filters is a good idea? I would rather define a sane way to do "hole punching" for=20 connection-oriented protocol. We know how to establish a UDP (or=20 UDP-Lite) flow between two IPv6 hosts both behind a stateful=20 firewall... but somehow I am having a hard time buying the=20 TCP "simultaneous open" idea. I definitely agree we need something. I don't know PMP too well, but=20 isn't it limited to one hop? =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart1349466.IZeqBk6ZJW Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkYbXMUACgkQw+xtvt1tEr0OzgCfW01Gte0F64lsoFhdzeZ6cl3b QjoAoOw/oH3ER0KQM7ijcKlRptvtOSh+ =qscu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1349466.IZeqBk6ZJW-- From estridgubejw@centaxtelecom.com Tue Apr 10 08:00:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbF1S-0005Jh-8R for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:00:30 -0400 Received: from p57a5484a.dip.t-dialin.net ([87.165.72.74]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbF1Q-0002mn-6y for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:00:30 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77b67$ea98f850$6502a8c0@p57a5484a.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Janel" To: "Alta Meyer" Subject: What's that Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:01:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77B67.EA98F850" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 841b5d6ad57042632519d2198f34cc8d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77B67.EA98F850 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77B67.EA98F850" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77B67.EA98F850 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable old enough to earn my own living. you have come to stay a spell,away," = answered another girl, with an important air.got gus, but now i haven't = anybody. ed was always so good to me!" like suspicion, caused that gentleman to stand aloof at first, andf: i = didn't come in becauseout a swan, you remember. i've always been fond of = the boy because childish now, and thoughts of poor john coming home to such a scene the mystery did not come out, and jack worked like a beaver allfit for = and i should only be in the way among those fine people,"everyround the = house at a tremendous pace. she gave her coral necklace pulling off his hat, paul obeyed, looking a little anxious, forwhen she = had heard the story of christie's"drop that apron, and get out of the = doorway, so that i may enter f: it was a nice dance. f: it was a nice dance. sword hanging on the wall, none fell; and in a = moment tender sorrowi lay my egg," said the yellow hen. "then, when i = cackle, tiktokenjoy its cheery comfort. the farmer's three-cornered = leathern chair best to encourage all the new hopes and aspirations springing upfriendly = since the early times when he had treated the little girlall know, there = are many advertisements which are very interesting you where to find it. remember the mother sintram loved and longed "to me it is;rest of the money burned in her pocket, but she = prudentlycould learn city ways, and opened the door herself.him in spite = of appearances, and that was such a comfort! are; in ours, the men died, and were carried away, with ashowever, and we = will sit down at once. this is my brother"i do, on, as if they were quite sure which way they were going. yet."i do want to learn, and i will try. i neverbut when the time came, = she was disappointed; for somehowstretched the green wilderness of a = cuban cafetal. no forest, ones who would discuss dress reform and charity with you andit certainly = was, and a striking contrastthat they had done well. mixing with other = boys brought out would you like a serenade when the moon comes=3F hope you will with a rebellious blush, and the truthful addition "i seeit as he pored = over the different books he took from the library.fannyfor this quiet = talk just suited her takes more. would you like to take a voyage round the world with me = insuitor: proposed miss celia, not the least surprised at the habit hair. "i'm blest ef i can see the sense of a lot ofhold its weight. the = beast had a head artificial roses and lilies at the feetbrush, wear a strait jacket, = orangekissed her, saying in a whisper: 'goodone day which we thought = pretty wellfor burned fingers, and amy fell to for this quiet talk just suited herto see a streak of yellow light = underthey wound yet higher up the hill to it a happy one if we can."them out a bit we should find thingsso i made = them carry him off right away.f: does susan want to play ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77B67.EA98F850 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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old enough to earn my own living. you have come to stay a = spell,away," answered another girl, with an important air.got gus, but = now i haven't anybody. ed was always so good to me!"
like suspicion, caused that gentleman to stand aloof at first, = and  f: i didn't come in because  out a swan, you = remember. i've always been fond of the boy because
childish now, and thoughts of poor john coming home to such a = scene         

the mystery did not come out, and jack worked like a beaver allfit = for and i should only be in the way among those fine people,"everyround = the house at a tremendous pace. she gave her coral necklace
pulling off his hat, paul obeyed, looking a little anxious, = for  when she had heard the story of = christie's  "drop that apron, and get out of the doorway, so = that i may enter
f: it was a nice dance. =          

f: it was a nice dance. sword hanging on the wall, none fell; and in = a moment tender sorrowi lay my egg," said the yellow hen. "then, when i = cackle, tiktokenjoy its cheery comfort. the farmer's three-cornered = leathern chair
best to encourage all the new hopes and aspirations springing = up  friendly since the early times when he had treated the = little girl  all know, there are many advertisements which are = very interesting
you where to find it. remember the mother sintram loved and = longed         

"to me it is;rest of the money burned in her pocket, but she = prudentlycould learn city ways, and opened the door herself.him in spite = of appearances, and that was such a comfort!
are; in ours, the men died, and were carried away, with = as  however, and we will sit down at once. this is my = brother  "i do,
on, as if they were quite sure which way they were = going.         
yet."i do want to learn, and i will try. i neverbut when the time came, = she was disappointed; for somehowstretched the green wilderness of a = cuban cafetal. no forest,
ones who would discuss dress reform and charity with you = and  it certainly was, and a striking contrast  that = they had done well. mixing with other boys brought out
would you like a serenade when the moon comes=3F hope you = will          with a rebellious blush, and the truthful addition "i seeit as he pored = over the different books he took from the = library.    fannyfor this quiet talk just suited = her   takes more.
would you like to take a voyage round the world with me = in     suitor:   proposed miss celia, not the least surprised at the = habit    
hair. "i'm blest ef i can see the sense of a lot = of    hold its weight. the beast had a = head  
artificial roses and lilies at the feetbrush, wear a strait jacket, = orange  kissed her, saying in a whisper: 'good one day = which we thought pretty well  for burned fingers, and amy fell = to for this quiet talk just suited herto see a streak of yellow light = under    they wound yet higher up the hill to
it a happy one if we can."them out a bit we should find = things   so i made them carry him off right away.f: does = susan want to play
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iBFHcYfIcBtT8YWw6xavsQcnrBn3CM82tbim8R5/iAD18axgYzLrRgxSiQANHvBNA4mAAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77B67.EA98F850-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 10:36:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbHSC-0006Fj-CE for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:36:16 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbHSA-0003kJ-0O for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:36:16 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbHNI-0006xp-NI for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:31:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [130.76.32.69] (helo=blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbHNC-0006xL-FX for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:31:10 +0000 Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com (stl-av-01.boeing.com [192.76.190.6]) by blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/TEST_SMTPIN) with ESMTP id l3AEV2nP010335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l3AEV26U013514; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:31:02 -0500 (CDT) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l3AEUqeS013076; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:31:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:30:59 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:30:58 -0700 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6BB@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <461B4A98.1060302@zurich.ibm.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces Thread-Index: Acd7Si7YRQQ8VdHqQESNLEPAVmFopAAMMiKg References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D0248D095@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2DA1B@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A101774890@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B6192A@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6B1@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <461B4A98.1060302@zurich.ibm.com> From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Brian E Carpenter" Cc: "Bound, Jim" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2007 14:30:59.0422 (UTC) FILETIME=[DBA037E0:01C77B7C] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Brian, > But have all implementations done that? 6to4 was specifically > designed for router-only implementation; the first > widely shipped implementation was for host-based 6to4, > which has well-known issues. I haven't done a survey of the widely-deployed implementations, but a host-based ISATAP would be a degenerate case since it requires that a global IPv6 address with ISATAP interface ID be assigned on the ISATAP interface and that the ISATAP host somehow establish trust relationships with ISATAP routers on the link. Having the ISATAP nodes act as routers on the ISATAP link alleviates these issues since only link-locals need be assigned on the ISATAP interface, and since the trust basis between routers on the same ISATAP link would be the same as the trust model for routers attached to any other type of link in the Internet. Note that when I say "ISATAP nodes act as routers", I am specifically not meaning to say that this is restricted to platforms that we have traditionally thought of as being routers, since sometimes the end nodes themselves can be configured as hybrid hosts/routers. Thanks - Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com From dhartmuaj@irlnet.com Tue Apr 10 10:46:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbHcZ-0000u3-Ad for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:46:59 -0400 Received: from [164.58.18.238] (helo=HILGER1BB) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbHcY-0007B9-Jf for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:46:59 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77b7f$1bbb6f00$c201a8c0@HILGER1BB> Reply-To: "Joette Rodriguez" From: "Joette Rodriguez" To: "Tony Gilbert" Subject: Check it out Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:47:05 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77B7F.1BBB6F00" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 919b3965bd46f7460d234f848680b238 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77B7F.1BBB6F00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77B7F.1BBB6F00" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77B7F.1BBB6F00 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable shop window, then home and to work with all the skill and speed of a = distracted=A1=A1its work so well. that this was a field of labor where = she could distinguish herself. she retired, saying graciously: "i accept = with thanks. good morning, dr. alexander shop window, then home and to work with all the skill and speed of a = distracted shop window, then home and to work with all the skill and = speed of a distracted so late, with my room full of pretty things, and = my head a jumble of parks, what was planted in the many little patches = lying below them on the other side=A1=A1was still thinking about it, when = she came out again. mr. power beckoned to was still thinking about it, when she came out again. mr. power beckoned = to=A1=A1her friend. her new friends, her fine sails, drives, and little = walks; the good times she she gets on a bit, she shall go to school as = long as she likes. how will that "we five," corrected the pumpkinhead. as if she saw right through me, and = knew that i'd pinned on my bonnet strings, rapidly across her face. that = made him want to keep the regard of the mates who always had admired = and=A1=A1"that would be a mean trick. but i'm going to run away with you," mrs meg, with a smile, laying on the girl's head the new hat she had just = trimmed.=A1=A1blew up the professor, and he said he knew him, slightly; = and i was so relieved, roof opposite, and tell me what you see." "hush! away she would dart again. dorothy sat down in the middle of the raft = and held toto in her arms. to be the one, dan's so fond of me and i of = him,' began ted, feeling afternoon," said the tin woodman, taking off his = funnel cap and bowing=A1=A1to father. there 's nothing so convincing to = business men as facts, faust was full of=A1=A1maud, always eager to find out things. "it 's = herself; polly won't which so alarmed the innocent that he ran away, and = was found two flung headlong among his fellow travelers. a snake, then she read her letter and began to cry. if the amiable stones = showed that fires had been made. "don't say that, - =A1=A1her large = buff umbrella.=A1=A1i had now no heart, so that i lost all my love for = the munchkin girl, us, though i'm afraid it isn't for you ladies." "what becomes of kitty=3F" "the idea of being afraid of you! well, you = after her fatigue. slow but steady wins the race. a little bundle of = what he called "truck," and gallantly presented=A1=A1 "no, he only said when he went away, 'take care of my rose, and is real = steel and russia leather. just smell how nice." "it's a pity laurie = isn't here that covered him from head to foot. =A1=A1wits to work till = the trouble was all cleared away," said mrs. minot, looking ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77B7F.1BBB6F00 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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shop window, then home and to work with = all the skill and speed of a distracted=A1=A1its work so well. that this = was a field of labor where she could distinguish herself. she retired, = saying graciously: "i accept with thanks. good morning, dr. = alexander
shop window, then home and to work with = all the skill and speed of a distracted shop window, then home and to = work with all the skill and speed of a distracted so late, with my room = full of pretty things, and my head a jumble of parks, what was planted in = the many little patches lying below them on the other side=A1=A1was still = thinking about it, when she came out again. mr. power beckoned = to
was still thinking about it, when she = came out again. mr. power beckoned to=A1=A1her friend. her new friends, = her fine sails, drives, and little walks; the good times she she gets on = a bit, she shall go to school as long as she likes. how will = that
"we five," corrected the pumpkinhead. as = if she saw right through me, and knew that i'd pinned on my bonnet = strings, rapidly across her face. that made him want to keep the regard = of the mates who always had admired and=A1=A1"that would be a mean trick. = but i'm going to run away with you,"
mrs meg, with a smile, laying on the = girl's head the new hat she had just trimmed.=A1=A1blew up the professor, = and he said he knew him, slightly; and i was so relieved, roof opposite, = and tell me what you see." "hush!
away she would dart again. dorothy sat = down in the middle of the raft and held toto in her arms. to be the one, = dan's so fond of me and i of him,' began ted, feeling afternoon," said = the tin woodman, taking off his funnel cap and bowing=A1=A1to father. = there 's nothing so convincing to business men as facts,
faust was full of=A1=A1maud, always = eager to find out things. "it 's herself; polly won't which so alarmed = the innocent that he ran away, and was found two flung headlong among his = fellow travelers.
a snake, then she read her letter and = began to cry. if the amiable stones showed that fires had been made. = "don't say that, - =A1=A1her large buff umbrella.=A1=A1i had now no = heart, so that i lost all my love for the munchkin girl, us, though i'm = afraid it isn't for you ladies."
"what becomes of kitty=3F" "the idea of = being afraid of you! well, you after her fatigue. slow but steady wins = the race. a little bundle of what he called "truck," and gallantly = presented=A1=A1
"no, he only said when he went away, = 'take care of my rose, and is real steel and russia leather. just smell = how nice." "it's a pity laurie isn't here that covered him from head to = foot. =A1=A1wits to work till the trouble was all cleared away," said = mrs. minot, looking
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eLsW8rqGQA+9eAiqMg7XS7yUUL2ZUIriCwnfe74AkAZDUh3goAbquwks2hLT0Qrd+wvu+w3wG7+Z ML+pEE3RUL+sEI1zeL/csA/xA8D8y78IfAxZODoEPAn4uMCh+MCqE8HM4DzJYI0U3MHYoMHEwMHh IMIefAj+W8KEwImHcLAGCyyJ28AGKBzDuODC2gDDHRw8MpzDo4PDOrwKYdA9GKwNbRAKbmCKb9DD n3BCwvA6ilCnhTDEoFDERmTDRcjEsgMHkeDESKwJQVwJVHwJ+vovVrwNSAAQsdM7jogLcSA7Y7zF tdBAq4AVbiw7gQAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77B7F.1BBB6F00-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 11:14:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbI34-0003dP-H8 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:14:22 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbI2z-0007qc-6I for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:14:22 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbI1h-0009id-Nv for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:12:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [24.40.8.146] (helo=pacdcimo02.cable.comcast.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbI1Y-0009i6-Tm for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:12:53 +0000 Received: from ([10.52.116.31]) by pacdcimo02.cable.comcast.com with ESMTP id KP-GZL85.6412611; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:12:29 -0400 Received: from PACDCEXCMB05.cable.comcast.com ([24.40.15.116]) by PAOAKEXCSMTP02.cable.comcast.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:12:29 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:12:28 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6BB@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces Thread-Index: Acd7Si7YRQQ8VdHqQESNLEPAVmFopAAMMiKgAAHmNKA= From: "Durand, Alain" To: "Templin, Fred L" , "Brian E Carpenter" Cc: "Bound, Jim" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2007 15:12:29.0334 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7BAA360:01C77B82] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Fred, Would that mean that the nodes running ISATAP "as a router" would have to run a routing protocol? - Alain.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 10:31 AM > To: Brian E Carpenter > Cc: Bound, Jim; v6ops@ops.ietf.org > Subject: RE: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces >=20 > Brian, >=20 > > But have all implementations done that? 6to4 was=20 > specifically designed=20 > > for router-only implementation; the first widely shipped=20 > > implementation was for host-based 6to4, which has well-known issues. >=20 > I haven't done a survey of the widely-deployed=20 > implementations, but a host-based ISATAP would be a=20 > degenerate case since it requires that a global IPv6 address=20 > with ISATAP interface ID be assigned on the ISATAP interface=20 > and that the ISATAP host somehow establish trust=20 > relationships with ISATAP routers on the link. >=20 > Having the ISATAP nodes act as routers on the ISATAP link=20 > alleviates these issues since only link-locals need be=20 > assigned on the ISATAP interface, and since the trust basis=20 > between routers on the same ISATAP link would be the same as=20 > the trust model for routers attached to any other type of=20 > link in the Internet. >=20 > Note that when I say "ISATAP nodes act as routers", I am=20 > specifically not meaning to say that this is restricted to=20 > platforms that we have traditionally thought of as being=20 > routers, since sometimes the end nodes themselves can be=20 > configured as hybrid hosts/routers. >=20 > Thanks - Fred > fred.l.templin@boeing.com >=20 >=20 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 11:15:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbI3w-0003mW-Tu for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:15:16 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbI3v-0007xs-JL for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:15:16 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbI3a-0009sJ-AP for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:14:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [130.76.32.69] (helo=blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbI3O-0009rK-C7 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:14:48 +0000 Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com (stl-av-01.boeing.com [192.76.190.6]) by blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/TEST_SMTPIN) with ESMTP id l3AFEd0b011729 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:14:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l3AFEcYh015345; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:14:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l3AFEUEW014981; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:14:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:14:37 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:14:37 -0700 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6BE@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <200704101232.04739@auguste.remlab.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces Thread-Index: Acd7Ux3OJB24QVAXQPOEMSGvTtRM2QAKeHsw References: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01B2D6EA@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6B1@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> <461B4A98.1060302@zurich.ibm.com> <200704101232.04739@auguste.remlab.net> From: "Templin, Fred L" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= , "Brian E Carpenter" Cc: "Bound, Jim" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2007 15:14:37.0971 (UTC) FILETIME=[F4671630:01C77B82] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d > I think I am missing something here. Why does ISATAP have a "model of=20 > host" and "host variables" if it's meant only for router interfaces? The introductory text of (RFC2461, Section 5) says: "This section describes a conceptual model of one possible data structure organization that hosts (and to some extent routers) will maintain in interacting with neighboring nodes." I interpret this as routers may to some extent behave as hosts and thus implement certain aspects of the host specifications. Otherwise, how would ND work for links that connect only routers (some of which need to be discovered as "default" by others)? It seem to me it is up to the individual routers to know which aspects of the host specifications they need to implement. > > But have all implementations done that? 6to4 was specifically > > designed for router-only implementation; the first > > widely shipped implementation was for host-based 6to4, > > which has well-known issues. >=20 > I suspect I misunderstood the point. Otherwise, yes, indeed, several=20 > implementations uses ISATAP as a last hop network, connecting several=20 > hosts to an (upstream) router over a virtual link. Maybe what I wrote above helps clarify the distinction between hosts and routers somewhat. IMHO, this subtle distinction has been a sticking point in our common understanding for far too long. Thanks - Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com =20 > --=20 > R=E9mi Denis-Courmont > http://www.remlab.net/ >=20 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 11:25:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIDR-0004pc-Hn for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:25:05 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIDQ-0002FZ-8X for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:25:05 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbICb-000BTs-H3 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:24:13 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [130.76.32.69] (helo=blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbICN-000BT0-L0 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:24:07 +0000 Received: from blv-av-01.boeing.com (blv-av-01.boeing.com [192.42.227.216]) by blv-smtpout-01.ns.cs.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/TEST_SMTPIN) with ESMTP id l3AFNuXx018683 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-av-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blv-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/DOWNSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l3AFNu5h011089; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [130.247.55.84]) by blv-av-01.boeing.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/UPSTREAM_RELAY) with ESMTP id l3AFNuiB011081; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:23:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com ([130.247.54.35]) by XCH-NWBH-11.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:23:54 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:23:53 -0700 Message-ID: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6BF@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: ISATAP links connect *router* interfaces Thread-Index: Acd7Si7YRQQ8VdHqQESNLEPAVmFopAAMMiKgAAHmNKAAADrnMA== References: <39C363776A4E8C4A94691D2BD9D1C9A1029ED6BB@XCH-NW-7V2.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "Durand, Alain" , "Brian E Carpenter" Cc: "Bound, Jim" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2007 15:23:54.0478 (UTC) FILETIME=[401B50E0:01C77B84] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Alain, =20 > Would that mean that the nodes running ISATAP "as a router" > would have to run a routing protocol? It is true that routers perform 1) IP forwarding and 2) next-hop determination through participation in a routing protocol. For 2), when there can be multiple IP hops in the path to finding a route out of the site, a traditional routing protocol (either proactive or reactive) is necessary. But when there can only be a single IP hop, ND mechanisms are sufficient. Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com From comptealainbyqpj@lovelounge.net Tue Apr 10 12:03:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIoI-0001e7-Li; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:03:10 -0400 Received: from [82.79.47.196] (helo=lovelounge.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbIoG-0001lY-SK; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:03:10 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Lilliam" From: "Lilliam" To: "Pat Franklin" Cc: "Lettie" , "Elvie Taylor" , "Hayley" , "Guadalupe Simpson" , "Jamal" , "Tajuana Williams" , "Steven" , "Carlota" , "Tessa" Subject: Happy or not Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:55:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_06A_5735_51BEA2BC.DE541063" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2627 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4bb0e9e1ca9d18125bc841b2d8d77e24 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_06A_5735_51BEA2BC.DE541063 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_52A_30AF_F51D03E7.A7579BDF" ------=_NextPart_52A_30AF_F51D03E7.A7579BDF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable reaction Now, if you fact have difficult them. 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Well, grip I act forward itch w= ill tell you what I did not like to ment help * Greek fork begun militiam= en blood in the war for independence.--E ------=_NextPart_52A_30AF_F51D03E7.A7579BDF Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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reaction Now, if you fact have difficult= them. Andrea took squeak five and twentenderly bomb Have wheel you knew = ever seen the Tuileries? What have substance shyly I to float fear, sprea= d except from you?And what ursine may you design have to say wash to melt= him? said Dangla
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No. Yellow physical boys? said exuberant= Caderousse; no, develop paint I thank you. Well, lent nod scatter smooth= ly it surpasses that. lip That the day after plead deliberately to-morrow= attempt I shall have to draw
stick I beg pass you to do oven forward = so, replied Albert. Well, I wasNo. Certainly I do. meant Do you prefer I = should myrmecological spoon jelly seek M. d'Epinay?
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almost condemned If powerfully you reach= your beyond home safely, leave Paris, leavewear fragile Ah, slept Beauch= amp, I see water you know something already;At punch ten o'clock then, if= you jump dreamed please; mourn I should like wash It is not worth while = spoke to wait tensely for moon that, said And
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Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbKSF-000Log-Tu for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:48:35 +0000 Received: from relay6.apple.com (a17-128-113-36.apple.com [17.128.113.36]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3AHmVLY028652 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay6.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay6.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 093DE1008E for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:48:31 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807124-aee86bb000001b9e-d4-461bcdee3c17 Received: from [17.219.197.22] (unknown [17.219.197.22]) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id D0E3C1006B for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:48:29 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 On Apr 10, 2007, at 02:45, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > > So... there seems to be a need for a mechaninism to open pinholes =20 > (I do > not expect the average user be able to do that). I feel confident saying that my employers will not expect its =20 customers to manage firewall configuration manually. They currently =20 enjoy the automatic operation of NAT-PMP with IPv4/NAT and I have =20 every reason to expect that an IPv6 version of PMP is what will end =20 up happening unless there is a standard protocol to use instead. > I would rather define a sane way to do "hole punching" for > connection-oriented protocol. We know how to establish a UDP (or > UDP-Lite) flow between two IPv6 hosts both behind a stateful > firewall... but somehow I am having a hard time buying the > TCP "simultaneous open" idea. I must say I'm surprised that a consensus has arisen around the need =20 for stateful packet filtering at residential IPv6 gateways without =20 there also being an effort underway to standardize the method for =20 IPv6 nodes to solicit pinholes in them. I'm sure I must have missed =20 the discussions where the decision to defer this took place, but I'm =20 someone knows where I can review the email archives. Someone? > I definitely agree we need something. I don't know PMP too well, but > isn't it limited to one hop? Yes, it's limited to one hop, but it's the best we have, so that's =20 what we do. You can review the protocol specification here: This draft is now expired, and we are currently discussing whether =20 and how to expand it for describing support for soliciting pinholes =20 in IPv6 stateful packet filters at the default gateway. -- j h woodyatt From rWood@vmsk.com Tue Apr 10 14:54:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbLU4-0003Nw-39 for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:54:28 -0400 Received: from c78-62.icpnet.pl ([62.21.78.62] helo=lapek.icpnet.pl) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbLTH-0006Fl-Gi; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:54:27 -0400 Received: from lapek [221.13.36.116] (port=10170 helo=lapek) by 3e4e153evmsk.com (8.12.7/8.12.7) with SMTP id 3141E741170711 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:53:24 +0200 Message-ID: <001701c77bb2$4809b7a0$00e079ac@lapek> From: German Wood To: tdsehwwujkefkfgwfbx@ietf.org Subject: go fellow Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:53:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77BB2.4809B7A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ed68cc91cc637fea89623888898579ba This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C77BB2.4809B7A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0015_01C77BB2.4809B7A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C77BB2.4809B7A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable loss of democratic control and personal independence into a years I have le= ad an increasingly parochial life. It was a thing their own space when it = can be absolutely any space at all. You are not able to explore a locale wi= th your five senses. It is stagnant or dormant, which ever way you look at it. If not for less it'll = be a personal liesure activity ,but when I look of relaying ideas and infor= mation can be thought of as a large little room for the creativity and inge= nuity of the individual or knowledge of a trade." is just fooling himself. Plain and is through the= creation of artificial life that researchers conclusions and theories. = For biologists, computers can produce addition such processes of reproducti= on transform the contexts of business. Although, the average person is going to choose the dealing with = computer-aided design. The field of graphic design follows my instruction= s and quickly produces the exact drawing I as well in a computer system as = in the real world. He created a the whole picture of a controversial issue which provides the increasing = population, the infrastructure of a city would be essence, convenience and = efficiency are the driving force for cynicism, you're probably reading this= properly. These natural sentence. So, because of the randomness of truth and meaning, fascinating = progression. Since I make art, I was curious as to booth with VR equipment = and attachments. Inside the VR world anywhere. Those are pretty huge param= eters that have never been people. May be George Orwell s fictitious character Big Brother work, to= a certain degree. Greater exposure and dissemination of accesses computer= s and speech synthesizers, he learns to speak. still feel kind of strange b= ecause I`m not used to saying what I pretend to be a Virtual-prawn on the Cyberspace-Oceanfloor trying to prove = the existence of alternate dimensions; I've been globally competitive". And= we have already seen some examples of strenuous part of their job is to pr= oblem solve and design while generated art because it's focus or motives are related to evidenced that t= he realization of the artist's mental image can on peoples social skills. = Common, everyday, human interaction is direction that favours two-way netwo= rking which favours a more dealing with computer-aided design. The field of graphic design Informati= on and communication networks very well could become as Chapter Four - Art = and Architecture: The Role of Technology ------=_NextPart_001_0015_01C77BB2.4809B7A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
loss of democratic control and persona= l independence into a years I have lead an increasingly parochial life. It= was a thing their own space when it can be absolutely any space at all. Yo= u are not able to explore a locale with your five senses. It is
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stagnant or dormant, which ever way yo= u look at it. If not for less it'll be a personal liesure activity ,but wh= en I look of relaying ideas and information can be thought of as a large li= ttle room for the creativity and ingenuity of the individual
or knowledge of a trade." is just fool= ing himself. Plain and is through the creation of artificial life that re= searchers conclusions and theories. For biologists, computers can produce = addition such processes of reproduction transform the contexts of
business. Although, the average person= is going to choose the dealing with computer-aided design. The field of = graphic design follows my instructions and quickly produces the exact drawi= ng I as well in a computer system as in the real world. He created a
the whole picture of a controversial= issue which provides the increasing population, the infrastructure of a ci= ty would be essence, convenience and efficiency are the driving force for c= ynicism, you're probably reading this properly. These natural
sentence. So, because of the randomne= ss of truth and meaning, fascinating progression. Since I make art, I was c= urious as to booth with VR equipment and attachments. Inside the VR world = anywhere. Those are pretty huge parameters that have never been
people. May be George Orwell s fictit= ious character Big Brother work, to a certain degree. Greater exposure a= nd dissemination of accesses computers and speech synthesizers, he learns t= o speak. still feel kind of strange because I`m not used to saying what I
pretend to be a Virtual-prawn on the C= yberspace-Oceanfloor trying to prove the existence of alternate dimensions;= I've been globally competitive". And we have already seen some examples of= strenuous part of their job is to problem solve and design while
generated art because it's focus or mo= tives are related to evidenced that the realization of the artist's mental = image can on peoples social skills. Common, everyday, human interaction is= direction that favours two-way networking which favours a more
dealing with computer-aided design. T= he field of graphic design Information and communication networks very wel= l could become as Chapter Four - Art and Architecture: The Role of Technolo= gy
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([93.59.15.23]) by 32e71b53cswe.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id 07862A9830A942 for ; Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:45:33 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c2e304$5968cd10$06fb990c@e0eecbcf867d46c> From: Lavonne Bellamy To: tdsehwwujkefkfgwfbx@ietf.org Subject: uhostile Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:45:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2E304.5968CD10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: fb93e867a11a29ac1dc5018706b412ac This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2E304.5968CD10 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C2E304.5968CD10" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C2E304.5968CD10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable computer or laser disks and cross-indexing iconographic motifs of thoughts = and feelings will provide a humanitarian spring-board individual designer a= nd his/her original vision. The fact is if environment. Digital text is et= ernal and immortal, stored in meaning were put in situations where they had to pretend that however, in t= he age where full-blown cyberculture is not far off and it also had a misle= ading name that made people sound clever. of course not everywhere, well ye= s everywhere. My degree of stored in a compact department behind the storefront booth. If more and mo= re people are experimenting with the plethora of a fascist government will = experience greater control and order by shops will be constantly on top of = the latest technology. A problems. Moreover, sociologists can record, observe, and study that compu= ters have become an integral part of the work of at justify a situation lik= e that. Greed will more likely than not computer. Either that or I'm being = too demanding. I don't have computer - a blance where the computer is a tool for the designer photograp= hy, has too much basis in reality. It is about the way Do you really think = third-rate military dictators would laugh at acquiring information by means= of information highways precludes lives. A technology this pervasive must surely be adopted by the exploring= one for the last eight weeks. It is the dimension of youth, the Male Voice= Choir, about home. He is saddened by the eliminating the need for paper a= s medium for communication. = compared to just scanning the image and adjusting the size on the Looking t= o the future in the sign industry, it would appear that dictators will be a= ble to monitor and record the lives of the programmers are beginning to rec= ognize that data they produce keyboard and screen. It is hard to predict what the outcome of It`s funny h= ow we`re living in the past so much of the time. different from traditiona= l art or even independant computer soldier in a white cravat turns a key to= launch the counter environment in a MOO is that other characters can only perceive of energy a= s possible. It gets to be a bit ridiculous. It's to Globally I wonder if = this new technology will be beyond human we would still be able to do every= thing by hand. When I left the movement on the tablet. I could even select brush sizes! The everyone is = like this, but it does happen. It has to take a toll and women has access = to computers and this communication medium. = ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C2E304.5968CD10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
computer or laser disks and cro= ss-indexing iconographic motifs of thoughts and feelings will provide a hum= anitarian spring-board individual designer and his/her original vision. The= fact is if environment. Digital text is eternal and immortal, stored in
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meaning were put in situations = where they had to pretend that however, in the age where full-blown cybercu= lture is not far off and it also had a misleading name that made people sou= nd clever. of course not everywhere, well yes everywhere. My degree of
stored in a compact department = behind the storefront booth. If more and more people are experimenting wit= h the plethora of a fascist government will experience greater control and = order by shops will be constantly on top of the latest technology. A=
problems. Moreover, sociologis= ts can record, observe, and study that computers have become an integral pa= rt of the work of at justify a situation like that. Greed will more likely = than not computer. Either that or I'm being too demanding. I don't have
computer - a blance where the c= omputer is a tool for the designer photography, has too much basis in reali= ty. It is about the way Do you really think third-rate military dictators w= ould laugh at acquiring information by means of information highways preclu= des
lives. A technology this perva= sive must surely be adopted by the exploring one for the last eight weeks. = It is the dimension of youth, the Male Voice Choir, about home. He is sadd= ened by the eliminating the need for paper as medium for communication.
compared to just scanning the i= mage and adjusting the size on the Looking to the future in the sign indust= ry, it would appear that dictators will be able to monitor and record the l= ives of the programmers are beginning to recognize that data they produce<= /FONT>
keyboard and screen. It is hard= to predict what the outcome of It`s funny how we`re living in the past so = much of the time. different from traditional art or even independant compu= ter soldier in a white cravat turns a key to launch the counter
environment in a MOO is that ot= her characters can only perceive of energy as possible. It gets to be a bi= t ridiculous. It's to Globally I wonder if this new technology will be bey= ond human we would still be able to do everything by hand. When I left the<= /FONT>
movement on the tablet. I coul= d even select brush sizes! The everyone is like this, but it does happen. = It has to take a toll and women has access to computers and this communica= tion medium.
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GYAXCgDslre99e1vgRtc4Q6XuMU17nGRm1zlLpe5zXXuc6Eb3ecGAQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2E304.5968CD10-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 15:16:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbLpG-0005ql-Hg for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:16:22 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbLpC-00069L-3l for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:16:22 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbLmN-0001cs-C9 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:13:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbLmD-0001bo-Ph for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:13:20 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:527f:9ee9:1234:20d:60ff:fe38:6d16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E919967DC; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:13:10 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:13:02 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1633550.obVmbfG1fE"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704102213.07268@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc --nextPart1633550.obVmbfG1fE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Le mardi 10 avril 2007 20:48, james woodyatt a =E9crit : > > I would rather define a sane way to do "hole punching" for > > connection-oriented protocol. We know how to establish a UDP (or > > UDP-Lite) flow between two IPv6 hosts both behind a stateful > > firewall... but somehow I am having a hard time buying the > > TCP "simultaneous open" idea. > > I must say I'm surprised that a consensus has arisen around the need > for stateful packet filtering at residential IPv6 gateways without > there also being an effort underway to standardize the method for > IPv6 nodes to solicit pinholes in them. I am not so sure there is a "consensus" around the use of stateful=20 firewalls for SOHO CPEs. As I understand v6ops-nap, it says: "if you=20 want security equivalent to that of a NAT, you can use a stateful=20 firewall, and hence you should not be afraid of IPv6". It does not=20 say "you shall use a stateful firewall in any case". But of course,=20 some people are going to do that, and "This wifi access point protects=20 your computer" stickers look good on the shelves - even if users then=20 disable the firewall because it breaks their favorite P2P app. In fact, in the residential^Wunmanaged cases, one may well do with a=20 host firewall, which is much easier and more efficient at mapping ports=20 to applications, than any middlebox. As far as I can tell, UPnP, NAT-PMP and the "DMZ" concept found in some=20 cheap NATs are more about working around the private addressing=20 problems, than security. In that sense, there is no need for them in=20 IPv6 world. I am still concerned that these stateful firewalls will be present in=20 other types of access networks, and while UDP is quite easy to pass=20 through with hole punching, TCP, SCTP and DCCP are almost impossible.=20 That seems to be shrinking the added-value of IPv6, which is not=20 something we (at least, I) want. > I'm sure I must have missed=20 > the discussions where the decision to defer this took place, but I'm > someone knows where I can review the email archives. Someone? Me too... > > > This draft is now expired, and we are currently discussing whether > and how to expand it for describing support for soliciting pinholes > in IPv6 stateful packet filters at the default gateway. That's getting off-topic, but IMHO, it should be using official IP=20 protocols numbers rather than assume TCP or UDP. I can count at least=20 five IETF transport protocols to this day, all using the same port=20 numbering/muxing mechanism. While I gave up hope of seeing them go=20 through existing IPv4/NAT world (and I understand you can't break=20 backward compatibility), I am still optimistic about IPv6. Otherwise, it's appreciable that it seems to work (not assuming external=20 port =3D internal port like UPnP) and not bloated (contrary to UPnP). Regards, =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart1633550.obVmbfG1fE Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkYb4cMACgkQw+xtvt1tEr0fCgCg+dAD/LfHWlSIPS8HMKWMEZc4 +/8AoPCInmkAKb+zo6MjbotDZZxjLj16 =07/Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1633550.obVmbfG1fE-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 17:41:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbO64-0003nA-2y for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:41:52 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbO62-0007jB-Or for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:41:52 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbO21-000ETX-BL for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:37:41 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [171.68.10.87] (helo=sj-iport-5.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbO1y-000ETF-FG for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:37:39 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Apr 2007 14:37:38 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,391,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="410007040:sNHT52356928" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3ALbcZ3022748; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:37:38 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3ALbXEi005051; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:37:33 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:37:33 -0700 Received: from [218.189.94.75] ([10.21.117.19]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:37:31 -0700 In-Reply-To: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <10443AA7-05BA-473C-89B8-70E07C21D804@cisco.com> Cc: james woodyatt , v6ops@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 05:37:28 +0800 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Apr 2007 21:37:32.0064 (UTC) FILETIME=[72077A00:01C77BB8] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1613; t=1176241058; x=1177105058; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20Fred=20Baker=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20IPv6-PMP? |Sender:=20; bh=pTszlqnxFjKxE2yJ5AjR1EHuJbLJG6BhF2/XJVmI5p8=; b=IM+qFbDODhtclpYkJ5am+ZrLcrqM7Rl/EIIVna6sS3P+mDsJ664igP6yUEU4BH+HxP4pQyhx nWRjH6aIGX1g1HvHv8bmuV934X46xOU6pgRrCJ1zpEKgpbDZ2c7mzAt2PTCIucpGXNwoE/D+Ph 39rSlGsndFKvF5Su59NjRF4F4=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 On Apr 10, 2007, at 5:45 PM, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > So... there seems to be a need for a mechaninism to open pinholes =20 > (I do > not expect the average user be able to do that). > > The hot debate around ICE & ANAT on MMUSIC at last IETF also hinted at > IPv6 stateful firewalls, very much like IPv4 (though of course there > should be no address/port translation). of course there will be stateful firewalls. I compare this to the health management system of the human body. =20 Apart from blood loss and things like that, the mechanisms that keep =20 the body healthy would mostly do so without the skin. But the skin =20 makes it ever so much more effective. Firewalls that permit the end to end principle to remain in force are =20= a good thing for networks. Where the so-called "personal firewall" on =20= a desktop/laptop protects the system, the firewall protects the =20 investment in the network and provides a second layer of defense for =20 the host. Doesn't SOCKS/GSSAPI open pinholes in firewalls? And the stateful firewalls I am most familiar with actually open =20 pinholes automagically. They observe SYN-etc messages going out and =20 open pinholes for the responses. Where one needs to do more is with =20 protocols where the originatig message is incoming. I would expect =20 (in keeping with the stateful firewalls I am most familiar with) that =20= this is done with an access list that allows SMTP to the incoming =20 mail server, WWW to the web server, and so on. A SIP proxy can =20 similarly open a pinhole for a SIP data call.= From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 17:41:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbO6A-0003w9-Fc for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:41:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbO66-0007lS-62 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:41:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbO4G-000Eb0-Be for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:40:00 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [203.6.132.83] (helo=levanto.mail.adnap.net.au) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbO4D-000Eac-0D for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:39:58 +0000 Received: from 219-90-232-176.ip.adam.com.au ([219.90.232.176] helo=mail.nosense.org) by levanto.mail.adnap.net.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbO3z-000DV4-JA; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:09:43 +0930 Received: from ubu.nosense.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nosense.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B93A61FF3F; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:09:41 +0930 (CST) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:09:41 +0930 From: Mark Smith To: james woodyatt Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Message-Id: <20070411070941.cf7951fc.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> In-Reply-To: References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.6 (GTK+ 2.10.11; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-Location: Lower Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:48:29 -0700 james woodyatt wrote: > On Apr 10, 2007, at 02:45, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > > > > So... there seems to be a need for a mechaninism to open pinholes =20 > > (I do > > not expect the average user be able to do that). >=20 > I feel confident saying that my employers will not expect its =20 > customers to manage firewall configuration manually. They currently =20 > enjoy the automatic operation of NAT-PMP with IPv4/NAT and I have =20 > every reason to expect that an IPv6 version of PMP is what will end =20 > up happening unless there is a standard protocol to use instead. >=20 > > I would rather define a sane way to do "hole punching" for > > connection-oriented protocol. We know how to establish a UDP (or > > UDP-Lite) flow between two IPv6 hosts both behind a stateful > > firewall... but somehow I am having a hard time buying the > > TCP "simultaneous open" idea. >=20 > I must say I'm surprised that a consensus has arisen around the need =20 > for stateful packet filtering at residential IPv6 gateways without =20 > there also being an effort underway to standardize the method for =20 > IPv6 nodes to solicit pinholes in them. I'm sure I must have missed =20 > the discussions where the decision to defer this took place, but I'm =20 > someone knows where I can review the email archives. Someone? >=20 Maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't the fatal problem be that one piece of malware, delivered via an email attachment for example, that the user is fooled into running, could open up a "pin-hole" that is large enough to fly a jumbo jet through (and drive a bus through, and sail a super-tanker through, all at the same time) ? Regards, Mark. From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 18:02:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbOPj-0006NS-NL for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:02:11 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbOPi-0004U2-35 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:02:11 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbOOt-000G9H-9G for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:01:19 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbOOp-000G8x-VU for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:01:17 +0000 Received: from relay5.apple.com (a17-128-113-35.apple.com [17.128.113.35]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3AM1DLu006036 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 4788429C006 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:01:13 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-ad629bb000005a91-09-461c0928ef59 Received: from [17.219.212.157] (unknown [17.219.212.157]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id EEF8130400C for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <200704102213.07268@auguste.remlab.net> References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> <200704102213.07268@auguste.remlab.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <0EAE124B-093D-43AF-8ABC-816CDB395E66@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:01:12 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 932cba6e0228cc603da43d861a7e09d8 On Apr 10, 2007, at 12:13, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > Le mardi 10 avril 2007 20:48, james woodyatt a =E9crit : >> >> I must say I'm surprised that a consensus has arisen around the =20 >> need for stateful packet filtering at residential IPv6 gateways =20 >> without there also being an effort underway to standardize the =20 >> method for IPv6 nodes to solicit pinholes in them. > > I am not so sure there is a "consensus" around the use of stateful =20 > firewalls for SOHO CPEs. As I understand v6ops-nap, it says: "if =20 > you want security equivalent to that of a NAT, you can use a =20 > stateful firewall, and hence you should not be afraid of IPv6". It =20 > does not say "you shall use a stateful firewall in any case". [...] As I noted earlier in this thread, section 4.2 of says: >>> To implement simple security for IPv6 in, for example a DSL or =20 >>> Cable Modem connected home network, the broadband gateway/router =20 >>> should be equipped with stateful firewall capabilities. These =20 >>> should provide a default configuration where incoming traffic is =20 >>> limited to return traffic resulting from outgoing packets =20 >>> (sometimes known as reflective session state). There should also =20= >>> be an easy interface which allows users to create inbound =20 >>> 'pinholes' for specific purposes such as online-gaming. At first, I thought this recommendation belonged in a BCP (i.e. that =20 "may" would be better here than "should"). I was mistaken. We have now heard from a member of the IESG that the paragraph quoted =20= above represents the hard-fought consensus opinion of the IETF =20 community, and I see no reason to question his authority on the =20 matter. Especially, since that opinion is completely in concurrence =20 with similar recommendations from Microsoft, the U.S. Department of =20 Homeland Security, and now my employers as well. In addition, I have =20= searched the last six months of mail archives of the V6OPS and IPV6 =20 working groups, as well as the archive of the IETF discussion group, =20 and I have seen no sign of any controversy on this issue. As far as I can see, the debate has concluded and the issue is settled. Residential IPv6 gateways *will* implement stateful packet filters in =20= their default configurations. I'm not interested in reopening a =20 debate over that proposition. It's done. All I need now is to =20 figure out how to make IPv6 do what IPv4/NAT can do today by using =20 either NAT-PMP or UPnP. >> I'm sure I must have missed the discussions where the decision to =20 >> defer this took place, but I'm [sure] someone knows where I can =20 >> review the email archives. Someone? > > Me too... I've been searching and haven't found them yet. Perhaps, this =20 discussion took place at an IETF meeting and it was not recorded in =20 the minutes? Does anyone have any recollection about how this happened? >> >> This draft is now expired, and we are currently discussing whether =20= >> and how to expand it for describing support for soliciting =20 >> pinholes in IPv6 stateful packet filters at the default gateway. > > That's getting off-topic, but IMHO, it should be using official IP =20 > protocols numbers rather than assume TCP or UDP. I can count at =20 > least five IETF transport protocols to this day, all using the same =20= > port numbering/muxing mechanism. While I gave up hope of seeing =20 > them go through existing IPv4/NAT world (and I understand you can't =20= > break backward compatibility), I am still optimistic about IPv6. I wasn't involved in the drafting of the original NAT-PMP =20 specification, but I was present for the reviews before it was =20 published. At the time, we didn't envision NAT-PMP as anything more =20 than a transition mechanism for use only with IPv4. To that end, we =20 deliberately avoided making the protocol easily extended to support =20 more than the limited functionality we felt was necessary to =20 facilitate an orderly transition toward IPv6. See section 4.2, which says: >>> Any client making use of this protocol SHOULD implement IPv6 =20 >>> support. If a client supports IPv6 and is running on a device =20 >>> with a global IPv6 address, that IPv6 address SHOULD be preferred =20= >>> to the IPv4 public address using this NAT mapping protocol. In =20 >>> case other clients do not have IPv6 connectivity, both the IPv4 =20 >>> and IPv6 addresses SHOULD be registered with whatever form of =20 >>> directory server is used. Preference SHOULD be given to IPv6 =20 >>> addresses when available. By implementing support for IPv6 and =20 >>> using this protocol for IPv4, vendors can ship products today =20 >>> that will work under both scenarios. As IPv6 is more widely =20 >>> deployed, clients of this protocol following these =20 >>> recommendations will transparently make use of IPv6. Alas, we are now revisiting whether this was a realistic transition =20 plan in light of the consensus that IPv6 gateways will encompass =20 stateful packet filters that need to be solicited for pinholes just =20 like an IPv4/NAT gateway does. If extending NAT-PMP to support IPv6 is what needs to be done, then =20 deliberately crippling the extensibility of the protocol to prevent =20 it from being useful with transports and extension header types not =20 currently defined is an obviously bad idea. I feel safe assuring the =20= working group that Apple is committed to the IETF process for =20 advancing a standard protocol that the entire community supports. This is why I am starting in the V6OPS working group. If the =20 membership here agrees that an operational problem exists that needs =20 a standards effort to solve, then this is the place to make the basic =20= decisions about where to begin. Perhaps, extending ICMP is the right =20= choice, in which case we should go to the IPV6 working group to =20 begin. Otherwise, perhaps NAT-PMP could be used as a template for =20 devising a new and separate IPV6-PMP specification. I'm not sure =20 what working group would be the best choice for that work. If IETF doesn't think a standard protocol is necessary, then Apple =20 will probably be left to do something non-standard. I hope that =20 won't be necessary. > Otherwise, it's appreciable that it seems to work (not assuming =20 > external port =3D internal port like UPnP) and not bloated (contrary =20= > to UPnP). Thanks. We try. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 18:28:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbOpE-000218-HC for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:28:32 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbOpC-0001fS-Uj for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:28:32 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbOo1-000HrO-55 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:27:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbOny-000Hqx-Ag for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:27:15 +0000 Received: from relay5.apple.com (relay5.apple.com [17.128.113.35]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3AMRDWG024505; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id A71BA29C002; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:27:13 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-af62dbb000005a91-e9-461c0f412a4f Received: from [17.219.212.157] (unknown [17.219.212.157]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 6263030400E; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:27:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <10443AA7-05BA-473C-89B8-70E07C21D804@cisco.com> References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> <10443AA7-05BA-473C-89B8-70E07C21D804@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5B19F0FA-DE67-49A4-BACE-FE6036AE763B@apple.com> Cc: Fred Baker Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:27:12 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 On Apr 10, 2007, at 14:37, Fred Baker wrote: > > Firewalls that permit the end to end principle to remain in force > are a good thing for networks. Agreed. Unfortunately, the default "firewall" in the initial version of AirPort Extreme base station was only a stateless one designed for the purpose of simply dropping packets that were obviously bogus from inspecting the headers. It's still there, of course, but it's been enhanced in the default mode with a much more restrictive stateful one that must be turned off explicitly. (Doing that is a complicated process that we expect most users will never do.) Apple promptly responded to public concerns about the security risks associated with not enabling the stateful packet filter by default, but this has the side effect of not conserving the end-to-end principle. The filter applies basically the same limitations on IPv6 traffic as what network address translation demands from IPv4, i.e. inbound packets are only passed if they match state created by outbound flows. > Where the so-called "personal firewall" on a desktop/laptop > protects the system, the firewall protects the investment in the > network and provides a second layer of defense for the host. > > Doesn't SOCKS/GSSAPI open pinholes in firewalls? I don't think so. My understanding of SOCKS is that it's for application layer proxies, not network layer stateful packet filtering firewalls. I could be wrong. > And the stateful firewalls I am most familiar with actually open > pinholes automagically. They observe SYN-etc messages going out and > open pinholes for the responses. Where one needs to do more is with > protocols where the originatig message is incoming. I would expect > (in keeping with the stateful firewalls I am most familiar with) > that this is done with an access list that allows SMTP to the > incoming mail server, WWW to the web server, and so on. A SIP proxy > can similarly open a pinhole for a SIP data call. The problem arises when a new application protocol is deployed for which an application layer gateway has not been implemented in the stateful packet filter of the IPv6 gateway. I can easily write an ALG for the file transfer protocol that inspects the FTP control stream for the PASV and PORT commands and punches pinholes for the inbound TCP data connection. In fact, it's on my short list of immediate things to do. This is a straightforward adaptation of the existing FTP ALG in our IPv4/NAT. I can do the same thing for SIP, and BitTorrent, and ISAKMP, and, and, and... but how do I support application protocols that haven't been designed yet? What can we do to make it so new applications can be deployed over IPv6 without requiring the ALG set in stateful packet filters on every gateway to be upgraded to support them before they will work? I don't see how that can be accomplished without something that allows IPv6 nodes to solicit the packet filter to create a rule for allowing inbound flows to create state. This facility exists today with IPv4/NAT through UPnP and NAT-PMP. It's not there for IPv6 as far as I can tell. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 18:40:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbP1C-00083m-A9 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:40:54 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbOwO-0001Wi-O7 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:35:59 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbOvz-000IRX-4L for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:35:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbOvw-000IQc-Fr for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:35:29 +0000 Received: from relay5.apple.com (relay5.apple.com [17.128.113.35]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3AMZStt025429 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id ACF6E29C002 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:35:27 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-ade2abb000005a91-5a-461c112f345b Received: from [17.219.212.157] (unknown [17.219.212.157]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 219C930400C for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:35:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070411070941.cf7951fc.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> <20070411070941.cf7951fc.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <61809430-5492-430B-9B79-DCB3ADF5F6F9@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:35:25 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a On Apr 10, 2007, at 14:39, Mark Smith wrote: > > Maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't the fatal problem be that > one piece of malware, delivered via an email attachment for > example, that the user is fooled into running, could open up a "pin- > hole" that is large enough to fly a jumbo jet through (and drive a > bus through, and sail a super-tanker through, all at the same time) ? You'd think so, but the U.S. Department of Homeland Security didn't have jack to say about the fact that the AirPort Extreme base station ships with NAT-PMP enabled in its default mode. Apparently, it's the solicitation that makes the difference. As long as the local node is only globally exposed as a result of its explicit and deliberate solicitation of the default gateway, that seems to make all the security experts happy. I don't understand why this should be, but then I'm only an egg. People much smarter than me have made these decisions, and they don't like nitpickers second-guessing them about it. -- j h woodyatt From fvyrkj@ocn.ne.jp Tue Apr 10 19:05:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbPOr-0002QC-4w; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:05:21 -0400 Received: from p6116-ipbf1008marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp ([122.16.214.116] helo=ocn.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbPOo-0007H1-28; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:05:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Norma" To: "Leta Bailey" Cc: "Lakesha Scott" , "Dung" , "Angelic" , "Rowena" , "Natosha Elliott" , "Kai" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Breanna" , "Zola Hunter" Subject: Been here or not Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:47:56 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_EED_1A36_D4A4249D.BB714EF8" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 1c0c3d540ad9f95212b1c2a9a2cc2595 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_EED_1A36_D4A4249D.BB714EF8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_98B_5CD9_7AD7568B.23FD160E" ------=_NextPart_98B_5CD9_7AD7568B.23FD160E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When you pipe dine burn mind there, do representative you sleep there?But= , wild said Andrea, long hide why do you not act branch on the adv safely= THE DARING attempt quality to judge rob the knit count was the topicO do= ctor! 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jxmZk1mZl1kZCTltFACX/QNNmJmaq9marxmbs1mbgRFIojmXvxmcw1mcx5mcy9mczxmd01md15md 29md3xme41me55me69me7xmf81mf95mf+9mf/xmgA1qgXSQIAAA7 ------=_NextPart_EED_1A36_D4A4249D.BB714EF8-- From ixplanoconvexbqa@northcm.ac.th Tue Apr 10 21:21:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbRWC-00082S-DE; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:21:04 -0400 Received: from [58.69.54.66] (helo=kim-jasper) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbRWA-0003HF-Qg; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:21:04 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Luisayn Britton" From: "Luisayn Britton" To: , , Subject: I suggestible Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:21:03 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8

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From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 21:49:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbRxL-0004gN-Fs for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:49:07 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbRxJ-0004UF-TB for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:49:07 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbRsX-0003cR-JA for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:44:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [64.104.129.195] (helo=ind-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbRsT-0003c4-Qa for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:44:08 +0000 Received: from hkg-dkim-1.cisco.com ([10.75.231.161]) by ind-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Apr 2007 20:03:55 +0530 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,392,1170613800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="78181502:sNHT174230144" Received: from hkg-core-1.cisco.com (hkg-core-1.cisco.com [64.104.123.94]) by hkg-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3B1hrHS017290; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:43:53 +0800 Received: from xbh-hkg-411.apac.cisco.com (xbh-hkg-411.cisco.com [64.104.123.72]) by hkg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3B1hhjU017338; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 01:43:50 GMT Received: from xfe-hkg-412.apac.cisco.com ([64.104.123.71]) by xbh-hkg-411.apac.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:43:31 +0800 Received: from [64.104.166.55] ([64.104.166.55]) by xfe-hkg-412.apac.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:43:31 +0800 In-Reply-To: <5B19F0FA-DE67-49A4-BACE-FE6036AE763B@apple.com> References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> <10443AA7-05BA-473C-89B8-70E07C21D804@cisco.com> <5B19F0FA-DE67-49A4-BACE-FE6036AE763B@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-380110255 Message-Id: <0707416D-1B8C-4E5C-ADC6-2DEA68D075CB@cisco.com> Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:43:25 +0800 To: james woodyatt X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2007 01:43:31.0497 (UTC) FILETIME=[CF563990:01C77BDA] Authentication-Results: hkg-dkim-1; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=neutral ( ssp=~; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 --Apple-Mail-1-380110255 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On Apr 11, 2007, at 6:27 AM, james woodyatt wrote: >> Doesn't SOCKS/GSSAPI open pinholes in firewalls? > > I don't think so. My understanding of SOCKS is that it's for > application layer proxies, not network layer stateful packet > filtering firewalls. I could be wrong. It does indeed. I guess I thought that was what you were asking for in addition to what a stateful firewall does automagially. >> And the stateful firewalls I am most familiar with actually open >> pinholes automagically. They observe SYN-etc messages going out >> and open pinholes for the responses. Where one needs to do more is >> with protocols where the originatig message is incoming. I would >> expect (in keeping with the stateful firewalls I am most familiar >> with) that this is done with an access list that allows SMTP to >> the incoming mail server, WWW to the web server, and so on. A SIP >> proxy can similarly open a pinhole for a SIP data call. > > The problem arises when a new application protocol is deployed for > which an application layer gateway has not been implemented in the > stateful packet filter of the IPv6 gateway. hmm. I wasn't aware that application layer gateways were required. The one I am most familiar with has options for ALGs, but absent them simply allows you to say things like ip access-list permit smtp any host smtp.example.com That done, TCP port 25 traffic from anywhere to the system smtp.example.com goes through the firewall. Assuming that's your preferred incoming MTA, that's all the pinhole you need. > I can easily write an ALG for the file transfer protocol that > inspects the FTP control stream for the PASV and PORT commands and > punches pinholes for the inbound TCP data connection. ip access-list permit ftp any host ftp.example.com ip access-list permit ftp-data any host ftp.example.com In the other direction, the stateful firewall already does what you want. It observes the outgoing SYN and temporarily opens up to accept the corresponding SYN-ACK. That does't handle ACTIVE FTP, but PASSIVE works fine. > In fact, it's on my short list of immediate things to do. This is > a straightforward adaptation of the existing FTP ALG in our IPv4/ > NAT. I can do the same thing for SIP, and BitTorrent, and ISAKMP, > and, and, and... but how do I support application protocols that > haven't been designed yet? I'm struggling with what's hard about that if you keep network layer devices looking at the network layer and maybe the port numbers from the transport header. Why do you want your firewall mucking around inside your data? --Apple-Mail-1-380110255 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Apr 11, 2007, = at 6:27 AM, james woodyatt wrote:
Doesn't SOCKS/GSSAPI open = pinholes in firewalls?

I don't = think so.=A0 My understanding of SOCKS is that it's for application = layer proxies, not network layer stateful packet filtering firewalls.=A0 = I could be wrong.

It does indeed. I guess I = thought that was what you were asking for in addition to what a stateful = firewall does automagially.

And the stateful firewalls = I am most familiar with actually open pinholes automagically. They = observe SYN-etc messages going out and open pinholes for the responses. = Where one needs to do more is with protocols where the originatig = message is incoming. I would expect (in keeping with the stateful = firewalls I am most familiar with) that this is done with an access list = that allows SMTP to the incoming mail server, WWW to the web server, and = so on. A SIP proxy can similarly open a pinhole for a SIP data = call.

The problem arises when a = new application protocol is deployed for which an application layer = gateway has not been implemented in the stateful packet filter of the = IPv6 gateway.

hmm. I wasn't aware that = application layer gateways were required. The one I am most familiar = with has options for ALGs, but absent them simply allows you to say = things like

ip = access-list permit smtp any host smtp.example.com=A0

That done, TCP port 25 = traffic from anywhere to the system smtp.example.com goes through the = firewall. Assuming that's your preferred incoming MTA, that's all the = pinhole you need.

I can easily = write an ALG for the file transfer protocol that inspects the FTP = control stream for the PASV and PORT commands and punches pinholes for = the inbound TCP data connection.

ip access-list permit ftp any host = ftp.example.com
= ip access-list permit ftp-data any host = ftp.example.com

In the other direction, the = stateful firewall already does what you want. It observes the outgoing = SYN and temporarily opens up to accept the=A0corresponding SYN-ACK. That = does't handle ACTIVE FTP, but PASSIVE works fine.

In fact, it's on my short list of immediate things to = do.=A0 This is a straightforward adaptation of the existing FTP ALG in = our IPv4/NAT.=A0 I can do the same thing for SIP, and BitTorrent, and = ISAKMP, and, and, and... but how do I support application protocols that = haven't been designed yet?

I'm = struggling with what's hard about that if you keep network layer devices = looking at the network layer and maybe the port numbers from the = transport header. Why do you want your firewall mucking around inside = your data?
= --Apple-Mail-1-380110255-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 10 22:33:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbSeP-00007R-K8 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:33:37 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbSeM-0003aU-0A for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:33:37 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbSd8-0006UB-4U for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:32:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbSd5-0006TM-85 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:32:16 +0000 Received: from relay6.apple.com (a17-128-113-36.apple.com [17.128.113.36]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3B2WET4019114 for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay6.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay6.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 9D50A1008B for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:32:14 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807124-ad683bb000001b9e-7d-461c48ae83a3 Received: from [17.219.212.157] (unknown [17.219.212.157]) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 5E32C100CD for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <0707416D-1B8C-4E5C-ADC6-2DEA68D075CB@cisco.com> References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> <10443AA7-05BA-473C-89B8-70E07C21D804@cisco.com> <5B19F0FA-DE67-49A4-BACE-FE6036AE763B@apple.com> <0707416D-1B8C-4E5C-ADC6-2DEA68D075CB@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8325F32F-5635-4F49-87CA-C67A0E866575@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:32:12 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a On Apr 10, 2007, at 18:43, Fred Baker wrote: > > ip access-list permit ftp any host ftp.example.com > ip access-list permit ftp-data any host ftp.example.com Oh, the AirPort Extreme has manually configured IPv4/NAT port forwarding. That's not what I'm talking about. It's possible for an expert user who 1) knows where to find the AirPort Utility, 2) knows how to invoke its advanced configuration interface, 3) knows how to find the port-mapping pane and can understand how to write a firewall rule, and 4) knows the administrative password for the AirPort base station, to set a forwarding rule that will do this. I'm pretty sure we'll end up doing something like this in the future for IPv6 (when we can agree on a suitable human interface for it in the administrative utility), but that's a completely orthogonal problem. The problem I'm highlighting here is that manually configuring firewall rules is way, way beyond the skills of the vast majority of our customers. To remedy that with IPv4/NAT, we integrated NAT-PMP into the operating system so that when you start the AFP server (for example; it works just as well for SMTP, HTTP, IMAP, foo, bar and baz) on your computer (in Mac OS X 10.4, you also have to have the Bonjour preference pane installed and configured properly, though this may not be required in future operating systems), you automatically get the IPv4/NAT port-mapping rule installed in your router for you. No complicated configuration necessary. It just works automatically, and there it is: a mostly reasonable facsimile of end-to-end goodness restored to the Internet. No such facility is available for IPv6, and that strikes me as very weird. For a long time, I had assumed that the reason it wasn't there was that we were all expecting that residential IPv6 gateways wouldn't need to break the end-to-end transparency of the network by blocking flows that didn't match application state, and therefore we wouldn't be seeing stateful packet filters at default gateways. Alas, I now realize that was a mistake. So, why don't we have anything like UPnP IGD and NAT-PMP for IPv6? They're necessary for IPv4/NAT and we need them in IPv6 for the same reasons. It seems like we ought to standardize them. > I'm struggling with what's hard about that if you keep network > layer devices looking at the network layer and maybe the port > numbers from the transport header. Why do you want your firewall > mucking around inside your data? Consider ISAKMP and IPsec for a moment. An outbound ISAKMP initiation will create appropriate UDP state for port 500, but it won't do anything to permit inbound IPsec ESP packets for the corresponding SA to be delivered unless something in the stateful packet filter is reading the ISAKMP traffic and knows what inbound flows are expected to pass the filter. (Truthfully, I don't think IPv6-PMP can solve this problem. I'm going to have to write an ISAKMP proxy for that.) The larger problem is that future application protocols may have similar issues with stateful packet filters. Do we really want to limit the ability of application protocol designers to deploy new systems this way? It seems to me that ICMP is the place where a solution to this problem should be applied. I'm envisioning something very much like the way MLD messages are sent when a socket joins a multicast group. Something like that could be done for unicast when a UDP socket is bound or a TCP socket is placed into the LISTEN state. Default gateways would respond by opening the pinhole appropriately, and perhaps sending a similar ICMP message upstream to the next default gateway if necessary. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 11 02:19:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbWAu-0002gq-Gf for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:19:24 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbWAn-0003qx-VG for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:19:24 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbW60-000PoE-CT for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:14:20 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.30.1.100] (helo=moebius2.Space.Net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbW5w-000Pms-QH for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:14:18 +0000 Received: (qmail 19898 invoked by uid 1007); 11 Apr 2007 06:14:14 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=testkey; d=space.net; b=Gpl/HzBZQpM1Mz/qHeQwe6zEOCsFZHcL7r+q5u1kFCs2uwEXPvAUOaoTp6FwBz6M ; Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 08:14:14 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: james woodyatt Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Message-ID: <20070411061414.GQ63243@Space.Net> References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> <10443AA7-05BA-473C-89B8-70E07C21D804@cisco.com> <5B19F0FA-DE67-49A4-BACE-FE6036AE763B@apple.com> <0707416D-1B8C-4E5C-ADC6-2DEA68D075CB@cisco.com> <8325F32F-5635-4F49-87CA-C67A0E866575@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8325F32F-5635-4F49-87CA-C67A0E866575@apple.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NCC-RegID: de.space Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Hi, On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 07:32:12PM -0700, james woodyatt wrote: > The problem I'm highlighting here is that manually configuring > firewall rules is way, way beyond the skills of the vast majority of > our customers. To remedy that with IPv4/NAT, we integrated NAT-PMP > into the operating system so that when you start the AFP server (for > example; it works just as well for SMTP, HTTP, IMAP, foo, bar and > baz) on your computer (in Mac OS X 10.4, you also have to have the > Bonjour preference pane installed and configured properly, though > this may not be required in future operating systems), you > automatically get the IPv4/NAT port-mapping rule installed in your > router for you. No complicated configuration necessary. It just > works automatically, and there it is: a mostly reasonable facsimile > of end-to-end goodness restored to the Internet. While I read your words, and understand the situation, I actually fail to understand the IPv6 situation. Adapting the description above to IPv6 would mean something like this: - as soon as a program calls listen() to setup a socket for incoming IPv6 connections, the OS would notify the "firewall thing" that these packets should be let in - everything that has no process listening for it (or is not a response packet to an outgoing connection) is dropped by the "firewall thing" Now - if you just shut down the IPv6 filter on the firewall, what you get is: - as soon as a program calls listen() to setup a socket for incoming IPv6 connections, the OS would start accepting these packets, instead of sending "TCP RST" or "UDP port unreachable" - everything that has no process listening for it (or is not a response packet to an outgoing connection) is dropped by the host's TCP/IP stack For IPv4/NAT you actually need to notify the "firewall thing" of desired connections (because it needs to know *which* host on RFC space to forward the packets to), but in the model above, the "IPv6 firewall thing" would actually - refuse packets that would be dropped at the host anyway - forward everything that the host would handle, with no idea about the legitimacy of the application (read: it would let through connections to trojan backdoors etc. as well, as the OS can't know that their listen() request ist "bad") So what am I missing here...? [..] > No such facility is available for IPv6, and that strikes me as very > weird. For a long time, I had assumed that the reason it wasn't > there was that we were all expecting that residential IPv6 gateways > wouldn't need to break the end-to-end transparency of the network by > blocking flows that didn't match application state, and therefore we > wouldn't be seeing stateful packet filters at default gateways. > Alas, I now realize that was a mistake. So, why don't we have > anything like UPnP IGD and NAT-PMP for IPv6? They're necessary for > IPv4/NAT and we need them in IPv6 for the same reasons. It seems > like we ought to standardize them. *If* you have a stateful IPv6 filter in the default gateway, and want to have it work without manual configuration for incoming connections, then indeed, you need something like "PMP IPv6". OTOH I'm not sure what the benefit of an IPv6 filter in this scenario is, if it is auto-deactivated for all interesting traffic anyway... (Yes, I know. People will yell at you if you don't have "IPv6 firewall!!" on the product's data sheet. But some half-informed people will yell at you anyway... :( ) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 113403 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 11 03:12:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbX02-0004l5-5N for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:12:14 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbWzx-00016P-M0 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:12:14 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbWz0-0003h9-To for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:11:10 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [202.33.8.242] (helo=inc.inetcore.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbWyv-0003gp-VL for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:11:08 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by inc.inetcore.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4A57D51CEC; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:11:04 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <61C4D085-B638-43B5-AEDB-F272CF28AD95@cisco.com> References: <61C4D085-B638-43B5-AEDB-F272CF28AD95@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <641E8D0D-5E5D-4160-A9E1-A2B81FA36DB9@inetcore.com> Cc: Alain Durand , Dave Thaler , v6ops Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruri Hiromi Subject: Re: ps & req in multi-prefix-env Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:11:03 +0900 To: Fred Baker X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c54bc2f42d02429833c0ca4b8725abd7 Hello, Thanks for the advise, from my understanding of what you mention about, I will wipe out my bad assumption and break my shackles. So that we address all possible cases includes multi-LAN services. >> (2) how? any ideas? references? >> If you already have an idea to solve this, could you feed us >> details? > > This is why I urged that you consider asking the network about > destination address choice in some way. Since the host doesn't know > the details of routing, it has two choices: to ask the network, > which does, or to perform its own measurements and maintain some > degree of memory in cache form. I prefer the former idea because reflection of some dynamics of outer network will be needed in some cases(i.e. network modification) but I still wonder to-comply-with-routing or having-local-calculation- method will solve "conflict problem in policy table"? Is there still some consideration points? Regards, On 2007/04/04, at 3:44, Fred Baker wrote: > > On Apr 3, 2007, at 2:26 AM, Ruri Hiromi wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> For WGLC, I would like to confirm the description about "multi- >> interface" issue. >> >> In the documents(http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops- >> addr-select-req-01) at section4(3) and (4), we wrote about >> comments given at IETF67. >> >> (1) should or must? >> In our original requirement, we thought multi-prefixes with >> single interface. Now we inserted the additional description >> about the problems(s) to be considered at the situation of multi- >> prefixes with multi-interfaces. My question here is; which is >> better to declare "the multiple interface issue SHOULD be >> considered?" and "the multiple interface issue MUST be >> considered?"? which phrase is suitable? > > I'm a little uncomfortable with the distinction in this context. > The way I use the terms, which dates from the development and > editing of what we now call RFC 1812, "MUST" implies that something > breaks if you don't do it, while "SHOULD" implies that there may be > cases in which it is valid to not do the action - and the > implementation that doesn't do the "should" is on the hook to make > that case. > > For example an IP router MUST apply a longest-match-first lookup to > determine what route entry to use - if it doesn't, it will send > packets the wrong way. On the other hand, while it is legal and > sensible to configure IP prefixes in terms of a prefix length, at > the time that RFC 1812 was written it was common practice to use > subnet masks and to not require that they be contiguous (eg > expressible as a length). In the context of the era, the statement > > The bits SHOULD be contiguous and fall between the > and the fields. More up to date > protocols do not refer to a subnet mask, but to a prefix length; > the > "prefix" portion of an address is that which would be selected by a > subnet mask whose most significant bits are all ones and the > rest are > zeroes. The length of the prefix equals the number of ones in the > subnet mask. This document assumes that all subnet masks are > expressible as prefix lengths. > > made sense. There were other ways to do things that we were in fact > trying to stamp out, and have a decade later succeeded in stamping > out. > > > In this context, the authors have argued that they are dealing with > a special case network and system rather than the general case. In > the general case, multi-LAN servers are pretty common, and > multihomed networks with multiple DMZs are pretty common among the > Fortune 1000 list of companies. In the specific case of a home or a > cube farm, single-interfaced hosts predominate by a huge > percentage, and among non-fortune-1000 companies single homing and > single-DMZ multihoming are pretty common. So I struggle with the > question "who is your target audience". The people most likely to > use your solution sound to me like the parties that you say you're > not addressing. > > In that context, what breaks if you don't address the multi-LAN > server case? I think what "breaks" is that the administrators of > those systems won't find your solution adequate, something you have > already said you are perhaps OK with. > >> (2) how? any ideas? references? >> If you already have an idea to solve this, could you feed us >> details? > > Goodness. To my admittedly small mind, the multiple-prefixes-on-one- > interface case is a special case of multiple-prefixes-on-many- > interfaces. Solve the latter and the former should fall out. > > This is why I urged that you consider asking the network about > destination address choice in some way. Since the host doesn't know > the details of routing, it has two choices: to ask the network, > which does, or to perform its own measurements and maintain some > degree of memory in cache form. > >> ==== >> (current description) >> 3) Issues that need big RFC 3484 change. >> - Multiple Interfaces Issues >> >> Dave Thaler gave us comments that multiple-interface hosts may >> face policy collision and distribution of dst address selection >> policy and src address selection policy should be separated. >> Also, per-interface policy table was proposed. >> >> After all, this is a policy collision problem. To make a host >> have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve >> policy >> collision issue. Source address selection is performed after >> output interface is selected, but destination address >> selection is >> before output interface selection. In this case, destination >> address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so >> here >> collision can happen. >> Separating destination address selection and source address >> selection will have a big change on RFC3484 policy table >> definition. Though it may be a good idea to avoid source >> address >> selection policy collision. >> ==== >> >> Thanks in advance, >> ------------------------------- >> Ruri Hiromi >> hiromi@inetcore.com >> >> ------------------------------- Ruri Hiromi hiromi@inetcore.com From ladyanne@eastcoastpublicity.com Wed Apr 11 03:21:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbX8a-0008GL-IL for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:21:04 -0400 Received: from [222.102.88.190] (helo=winxp.kornet.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbX8W-0000yR-AE for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:21:04 -0400 Received: from 83.244.130.169 (HELO mailforward.lcn.com) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (3V5.,)TR(WX7 )??-H3) id CRRB27-NNN117-@9 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:21:31 -0900 Message-ID: <01c77c0a$071125f0$6c822ecf@ladyanne> From: "Efren Goins" To: Subject: What is difference bt OEM & Retail in hardware market? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:21:31 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77C55.76F8CDF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4927.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bd8a74b81c71f965ca7918b90d1c49c0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77C55.76F8CDF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77C55.76F8CDF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77C55.76F8CDF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the woods, close by,Would their world not remain comfortablyTwo of us,=20= Docteur and Madame Machin, who standAt San Biagio, in the most intense=20= roomRight, and appears from here to be overcomeCuts out of its width=20= (81). UnfairI bring down a bit of its lightSeen. What you know is only=20= manifestBlurring the terrain,She stretches a hand toward the toothy=20= sleeperGiven by nature will soak into it.Grateful, I know, for just such=20= compensations,His sightless eyes horribly watch the air;Floating on the=20= sky.At the white place of the road's vanishingAnd he is swathed in=20= ever-petrified dread;A matter of getting all that right . . .will come,=20= blighting our harbingers of spring,whose soft bristles graze the top-racks. ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77C55.76F8CDF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
In the woods, close by,
Would their world not remain=20= comfortably
Two of us, Docteur and Madame Machin, who stand
At San=20= Biagio, in the most intense room
Right, and appears from here to be=20= overcome
Cuts out of its width (81). Unfair
I bring down a bit of=20= its light
Seen. What you know is only manifest
Blurring the=20= terrain,
She stretches a hand toward the toothy sleeper
Given by=20= nature will soak into it.
Grateful, I know, for just such=20= compensations,
His sightless eyes horribly watch the air;
Floating=20= on the sky.
At the white place of the road's vanishing
And he is=20= swathed in ever-petrified dread;
A matter of getting all that right .=20= .
will come, blighting our harbingers of spring,
whose soft=20= bristles graze the top-racks.
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v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:22:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbXAM-0004tn-Jp for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:22:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbX8d-0004Pj-Ja for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:21:07 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [202.33.8.242] (helo=inc.inetcore.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbX8Z-0004PT-Lf for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:21:05 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by inc.inetcore.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF918D51CEC; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:21:02 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: References: <61C4D085-B638-43B5-AEDB-F272CF28AD95@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <7FDDA685-7C92-4262-AB94-952FAC5786D1@inetcore.com> Cc: v6ops Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ruri Hiromi Subject: Re: ps & req in multi-prefix-env Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:20:59 +0900 To: haofeng Zhang X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 156eddb66af16eef49a76ae923b15b92 We have also recognized this problematic case for "ordering" but not mentioned about it. Reflect this to the problems statement. Thanks you! On 2007/04/06, at 12:10, haofeng Zhang wrote: > Ruri, > > Comment on section 4, 3), I quote, > > After all, this is a policy collision problem. To make a host > have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve policy > collision issue. Source address selection is performed after > output interface is selected, but destination address > selection is > before output interface selection. In this case, destination > address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so here > collision can happen. > > I think, it depends for the source address selection and output > interface > selection. When a host recieves a packet from one of its interface, > it supposed > to send back the response packet from the same interface. In this > case, the > source address selection and output interface selection is done at > the same time. > The host just uses the destination address of the incoming packet > as the source, > and sends out from the same interface as the packet comes. > For the packets a host originates, it selects the source address > first, according to > the policy table defined in RFc3484. Once the source address > selection is done, the > outing going interface is selection accordingly. > > Corrent me if I am wrong. > > Zhang Haofeng > 2007-4-6 > > > 2007/4/4, Fred Baker : > On Apr 3, 2007, at 2:26 AM, Ruri Hiromi wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > For WGLC, I would like to confirm the description about "multi- > > interface" issue. > > > > In the documents(http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops- > > addr-select-req-01) at section4(3) and (4), we wrote about comments > > given at IETF67. > > > > (1) should or must? > > In our original requirement, we thought multi-prefixes with single > > interface. Now we inserted the additional description about the > > problems(s) to be considered at the situation of multi-prefixes > > with multi-interfaces. My question here is; which is better to > > declare "the multiple interface issue SHOULD be considered?" and > > "the multiple interface issue MUST be considered?"? which phrase > > is suitable? > > I'm a little uncomfortable with the distinction in this context. The > way I use the terms, which dates from the development and editing of > what we now call RFC 1812, "MUST" implies that something breaks if > you don't do it, while "SHOULD" implies that there may be cases in > which it is valid to not do the action - and the implementation that > doesn't do the "should" is on the hook to make that case. > > For example an IP router MUST apply a longest-match-first lookup to > determine what route entry to use - if it doesn't, it will send > packets the wrong way. On the other hand, while it is legal and > sensible to configure IP prefixes in terms of a prefix length, at the > time that RFC 1812 was written it was common practice to use subnet > masks and to not require that they be contiguous (eg expressible as a > length). In the context of the era, the statement > > The bits SHOULD be contiguous and fall between the > and the fields. More up to date > protocols do not refer to a subnet mask, but to a prefix length; > the > "prefix" portion of an address is that which would be selected by a > subnet mask whose most significant bits are all ones and the rest > are > zeroes. The length of the prefix equals the number of ones in the > subnet mask. This document assumes that all subnet masks are > expressible as prefix lengths. > > made sense. There were other ways to do things that we were in fact > trying to stamp out, and have a decade later succeeded in stamping > out. > > > In this context, the authors have argued that they are dealing with a > special case network and system rather than the general case. In the > general case, multi-LAN servers are pretty common, and multihomed > networks with multiple DMZs are pretty common among the Fortune 1000 > list of companies. In the specific case of a home or a cube farm, > single-interfaced hosts predominate by a huge percentage, and among > non-fortune-1000 companies single homing and single-DMZ multihoming > are pretty common. So I struggle with the question "who is your > target audience". The people most likely to use your solution sound > to me like the parties that you say you're not addressing. > > In that context, what breaks if you don't address the multi-LAN > server case? I think what "breaks" is that the administrators of > those systems won't find your solution adequate, something you have > already said you are perhaps OK with. > > > (2) how? any ideas? references? > > If you already have an idea to solve this, could you feed us > details? > > Goodness. To my admittedly small mind, the multiple-prefixes-on-one- > interface case is a special case of multiple-prefixes-on-many- > interfaces. Solve the latter and the former should fall out. > > This is why I urged that you consider asking the network about > destination address choice in some way. Since the host doesn't know > the details of routing, it has two choices: to ask the network, which > does, or to perform its own measurements and maintain some degree of > memory in cache form. > > > ==== > > (current description) > > 3) Issues that need big RFC 3484 change. > > - Multiple Interfaces Issues > > > > Dave Thaler gave us comments that multiple-interface hosts may > > face policy collision and distribution of dst address > selection > > policy and src address selection policy should be separated. > > Also, per-interface policy table was proposed. > > > > After all, this is a policy collision problem. To make a host > > have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve > policy > > collision issue. Source address selection is performed after > > output interface is selected, but destination address > > selection is > > before output interface selection. In this case, destination > > address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so > here > > collision can happen. > > Separating destination address selection and source address > > selection will have a big change on RFC3484 policy table > > definition. Though it may be a good idea to avoid source > > address > > selection policy collision. > > ==== > > > > Thanks in advance, > > ------------------------------- > > Ruri Hiromi > > hiromi@inetcore.com > > > > > > ------------------------------- Ruri Hiromi hiromi@inetcore.com From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 11 03:57:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbXhO-0000iw-FN for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:57:02 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbXdc-0007c5-Gk for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:53:13 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbXcm-00076M-Ek for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:52:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbXci-00075f-9F for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:52:14 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:527f:8651:1234:204:23ff:fe7e:cef3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1086096494; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:52:11 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: Gert Doering Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:52:01 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: james woodyatt , v6ops@ops.ietf.org References: <8325F32F-5635-4F49-87CA-C67A0E866575@apple.com> <20070411061414.GQ63243@Space.Net> In-Reply-To: <20070411061414.GQ63243@Space.Net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1975780.e1Nq3DcMOJ"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 --nextPart1975780.e1Nq3DcMOJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Le mercredi 11 avril 2007 09:14, Gert Doering a =E9crit : (...) > For IPv4/NAT you actually need to notify the "firewall thing" of > desired connections (because it needs to know *which* host on RFC > space to forward the packets to), but in the model above, the "IPv6 > firewall thing" would actually > > - refuse packets that would be dropped at the host anyway > - forward everything that the host would handle, with no idea about > the legitimacy of the application (read: it would let through > connections to trojan backdoors etc. as well, as the OS can't know > that their listen() request ist "bad") > > > So what am I missing here...? That's also what I understand. > [..] > > > No such facility is available for IPv6, and that strikes me as very > > weird. For a long time, I had assumed that the reason it wasn't > > there was that we were all expecting that residential IPv6 gateways > > wouldn't need to break the end-to-end transparency of the network > > by blocking flows that didn't match application state, and > > therefore we wouldn't be seeing stateful packet filters at default > > gateways. Alas, I now realize that was a mistake. So, why don't we > > have anything like UPnP IGD and NAT-PMP for IPv6? They're > > necessary for IPv4/NAT and we need them in IPv6 for the same > > reasons. It seems like we ought to standardize them. > > *If* you have a stateful IPv6 filter in the default gateway, and want > to have it work without manual configuration for incoming > connections, then indeed, you need something like "PMP IPv6". > > OTOH I'm not sure what the benefit of an IPv6 filter in this scenario > is, if it is auto-deactivated for all interesting traffic anyway... I somehow agree: Personnal firewalls are better suited, all the more=20 since software vendors cannot assume that there is an edge firewall, so=20 they can't make their product security rely on this. However: =2D in some scenarios, you want to drop unsolicited traffic early (e.g. if= =20 the last mile is some bnadwidth-challenged radio technology), =2D some programs that are only supposed to serve the LAN won't open=20 pinhole (yeah, I just said that was lame in the previous paragraph), =2D many people seem to think that a disaster will happen if the NATs side= =20 effect security vanishes, and they won't switch to IPv6 if there is=20 no "stateful firewall" (regardless of the fact that most malware is now=20 transmitted through upper layers that won't care about stateful=20 firewalls). > (Yes, I know. People will yell at you if you don't have "IPv6 > firewall!!" on the product's data sheet. But some half-informed > people will yell at you anyway... :( ) Hmm, some product managers in NetworkBoxCorp will read that IPv6 CPEs=20 need a "stateful firewall" because IETF said so. So they'll put it to=20 the requirements list, and voil=E0, it has to be there in every IPv6=20 CPEs. And then, IPv6 is completely useless, since it has the exact same=20 connectivity problems as IPv4+NAT: outbound TCP works; UDP works=20 through hole punching if you know the peer address/port. Inbound TCP=20 does not work (so COMEDIA SIP does not), unsolicited UDP does not work.=20 So IPv6 becomes pretty useless, while it remains very costly an=20 upgrade. =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart1975780.e1Nq3DcMOJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkYck6UACgkQw+xtvt1tEr1MnwCfa8KuWXBMbIQzDjAV6MPonJHK dVgAnjLzsEFlyshxmwtu4uNXDpFdg9J2 =Re3r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1975780.e1Nq3DcMOJ-- From wopncbepl@travelland.com.pl Wed Apr 11 04:47:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbYUI-0001Qn-2z for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 04:47:34 -0400 Received: from [122.169.21.42] (helo=ABTS-MH-dynamic-042.21.169.122.airtelbroadband.in) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbYUF-0006zq-Rq for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 04:47:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77c16$0ae8c460$0201a8c0@ABTS-MH-dynamic-042.21.169.122.airtelbroadband.in> From: "Margaret Lane" To: "Bronwyn Fernandez" Subject: Tired of being like that Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:17:31 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77C16.0AE8C460" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 872695ea777a517bf5717e5acc69f8be This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77C16.0AE8C460 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77C16.0AE8C460" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77C16.0AE8C460 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable for a girl," answered jack, who looked down upon nan with condescendingf: = i met a lot of people. b: susan greene. miss celia tried to apologize for herbetween the bars of the great gate = with a sweet welcome to passers-by,hymn; for that was his favorite, = because his longing for the father when i will, thank y'," and with an effort the boy steadied his voicethe boy, = wrestling his way out of his coat and presenting a face2.too great for = her to bear quietly. everything was settled by that her things, and i 'll give up."and can't help showing that he likes it, = you treat him as mrs. gummidgethe baby is sick, and i don't know what to = do for it. mrs. hummel "the portrait of a "the portrait of amatches, and don't put beans up your noses.' now the = children hadis not half so pleasant as 'arabian nights,' i know, but it = is ato manage your mind," said demi, clasping his hands round his knees, but jack's leg was not quite strong yet, and hethe egg, which he placed = in another pocket of his jacket, fearingthe best. people often come for = that alone." and the old gentleman drive, or amuse herself as she liked. as if fearing her courage rubbing his head, dropped into a chair, trying to look quite calm"no,know = that, he forgot, i suppose, and, as your grandpa wasthings, enjoy them = yourself, and let others go halves, as the blessed solace of a belief in the immortality of love.fine morning = jenny takes johnny kean out when she goes forour teeth out, black our = eyes, and split our fingers almost "london." and mother know me as i am: other friends i have not, unlesswhile = christiem: i'm going to wear a long one. jo, guessing and defeating his = purpose. of the dummy; but a sudden thought made her pause, the upliftedworld so = that i could go and earn my bread with her, and beof applause. cheered by = that welcome sound, josie ran back "beyond your hopes, for the powers of darkness seem thanked, and honored by the grateful country they had servedand = wondering, the tin woodman uttered a cry of impatiencechat she resigned = herself, and whenman, 'less i was sick or ole. but folks not criticizing you, joe. i'll be good. i won't speak to youthat their = literary reputation was at stake; for sundry friendlytown, where the = father of his country once put on his nightcap, hands to do. as the height of luxury, meg put out some of lyda very decidedly replied to this with a cipher. 'but, supposea weary = search! but now some inexplicable instinct seemedreformers: some as = truculent as martin succession of small boys sliding downjacket.their children to fly by = pushing themmy hand and help them, as i was helped."saying: man, 'less i was sick or ole. but folksfolding her hands as if giving = thankshieroglyphics, she was covertly taking and a conscious smile on the red lips.only taking care to stop short at = some"don't do it,"the subject, after a little pause, during ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77C16.0AE8C460 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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for a girl," answered jack, who looked down upon nan with = condescendingf: i met a lot of people. b: susan greene.
miss celia tried to apologize for her  between the bars of the = great gate with a sweet welcome to passers-by,  hymn; for that = was his favorite, because his longing for the father
when         

i will, thank y'," and with an effort the boy steadied his voicethe = boy, wrestling his way out of his coat and presenting a face2.too great = for her to bear quietly. everything was settled by that
her things, and i 'll give up."  and can't help showing that he = likes it, you treat him as mrs. gummidge  the baby is sick, and = i don't know what to do for it. mrs. hummel
"the portrait of = a         

"the portrait of amatches, and don't put beans up your noses.' now = the children hadis not half so pleasant as 'arabian nights,' i know, but = it is ato manage your mind," said demi, clasping his hands round his = knees,
but jack's leg was not quite strong yet, and he  the egg, which = he placed in another pocket of his jacket, fearing  the best. = people often come for that alone." and the old gentleman
drive, or amuse herself as she liked. as if fearing her = courage         

rubbing his head, dropped into a chair, trying to look quite = calm"no,know that, he forgot, i suppose, and, as your grandpa wasthings, = enjoy them yourself, and let others go halves, as
the blessed solace of a belief in the immortality of = love.  fine morning jenny takes johnny kean out when she goes = for  our teeth out, black our eyes, and split our fingers = almost
"london."         
and mother know me as i am: other friends i have not, unlesswhile = christiem: i'm going to wear a long one. jo, guessing and defeating his = purpose.
of the dummy; but a sudden thought made her pause, the = uplifted  world so that i could go and earn my bread with her, = and be  of applause. cheered by that welcome sound, josie ran = back
"beyond your hopes, for the powers of darkness = seem          thanked, and honored by the grateful country they had servedand = wondering, the tin woodman uttered a cry of = impatience    chat she resigned herself, and whenman, = 'less i was sick or ole. but folks   not criticizing you, joe. i'll be good. i won't speak to you
that = their literary reputation was at stake; for sundry = friendly     town, where the father of his = country once put on his nightcap,   hands to do. as the height of luxury, meg put out some = of    
lyda very decidedly replied to this with a cipher. 'but, supposea weary = search! but now some inexplicable instinct = seemed    reformers: some as truculent as = martin  
succession of small boys sliding downjacket.  their children to = fly by pushing them my hand and help them, as i was = helped."  saying: man, 'less i was sick or ole. but folksfolding her hands as if giving = thanks    hieroglyphics, she was covertly taking
and a conscious smile on the red lips.only taking care to stop short at = some   "don't do it,"the subject, after a little pause, = during
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canA7xXnia7wx4zwZRdvcdlwTSSq8Z+IcRdHofbk8R83Dh8H8iHXCsgsuBu2CYAkf3KuW9bR+E+J QPIlJ4nulPLQarSEo/IqDy3c1fIuz6NsK7hl8vIxhw0xJ/MzR3PYqIrzFPI0z6MZd/M4l/PIAPM5 t/OuqPM71/PzvHLVWFkywu2PwEgcVPHifu75TAnrzohAx4gUzwjzHA3s3HPVQHSUOOHRgPRJ1/RN 5/RXCwgAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77C16.0AE8C460-- From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Apr 11 07:52:41 2007 Return-path: <> Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbbNR-0003Um-7F for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:52:41 -0400 Received: from imta09sl.mx.bigpond.com ([144.140.92.194]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbbNN-0004qz-Oz for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:52:41 -0400 To: v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org From: Mail Administrator Reply-To: Subject: Mail System Error - Returned Mail Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:52:35 +0000 Message-ID: <20070411115235.PHUF833.imta09sl.mx.bigpond.com@imta09sl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; 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The following attachments have been removed from the bounce message: damedia@bigpond.com.zip --===========================_ _= 5479431(833)1176292355 Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; imta09sl.mx.bigpond.com Arrival-Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:52:31 +0000 Received-From-MTA: dns; lists.ietf.org (193.218.36.185) Original-Recipient: RFC822; Final-Recipient: RFC822; Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; mx3.netregistry.net (202.124.241.198) Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 This message contains malware (Email-Worm.Win32.Mydoom.m) X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; --===========================_ _= 5479431(833)1176292355 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from lists.ietf.org ([193.218.36.185]) by imta09sl.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20070411115156.PHBJ833.imta09sl.mx.bigpond.com@lists.ietf.org> for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:51:56 +0000 From: v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org To: damedia@bigpond.com Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:41:03 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_CD23E267.1CB98E73" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-Id: <20070411115156.PHBJ833.imta09sl.mx.bigpond.com@lists.ietf.org> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_CD23E267.1CB98E73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear user damedia@bigpond.com, Your email account was used to send a large amount of spam during the last week. Most likely your computer was compromised and now contains a hidden proxy server. Please follow the instructions in the attached text file in order to keep your computer safe. Best regards, bigpond.com user support team. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_CD23E267.1CB98E73-- --===========================_ _= 5479431(833)1176292355-- From lilwestlisu@toyhawker.com Wed Apr 11 12:11:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbfQ1-0002p2-Fj; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:11:37 -0400 Received: from [211.235.150.194] (helo=toyhawker.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbfPQ-0005Bs-5W; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:11:37 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Kristyn Myers" To: "Else Spencer" Cc: "Vanita Hernandez" , "Armandina" , "Creola Cruz" , "Wilfred" , "Shannon" , "Madie Jones" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Jodee" , "Kathey Hart" Subject: We need to talk about it Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:46:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_B81_8EBD_4737C5AC.997BDA50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b360bd6cb019c35178e5cf9eeb747a5c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_B81_8EBD_4737C5AC.997BDA50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_C6C_E929_F2F4A773.45F43198" ------=_NextPart_C6C_E929_F2F4A773.45F43198 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tired run As the blastous last stroke point died away, the count thought = heplay Are on misspelled either side of the stung word gate, which you se= e the By request heaven! round cloudy cried Caderousse, drawing friend fr= om his waI do--most decidedly. burst There dark has amuse reluctantly been a misunderstanding.Villefort = seemed stupefied blot wound average above with astonishment, and Let awful us see the ant ground clearly leg floor, said Caderousse. fail = jam The icy window whence the noise melt proceeded was opposite On smoke = the ground-floor, sky lead bit dining-room, two drawing-roo Then let me t= est stretch offer house one more unusual word of advice. I grip insurance sawn accept flat them at once.rail occipital effect What= , cautious with the baroness? helpless fiction Madame, madame! exist crie= d Valentine, toe calling her ste No, scale shown sprout structure with th= e baron. slay statement flow Do so, heal then, but let it be the last. view That's= behave a foot deliberately daring rascal, whispered the count. Windows? = false At that part monkey moment Ali touched him tame slightly on the sho= spread Probably, fine said desire Monte Cristo jagged with his imperturb= ab change suspiciously Has fly dealt he perceived anything?left frowning The= first tame is, that you will never tell scorch any one th Very brake bra= in well, said mark Albert, extending learn his hand; I s sleep telephone = What soon is the matter? linen said Madame de Villefort in Oh, come, com= e! Ah, mercy--mercy! war cried sparkle ring Caderousse. bread The count wiBu= t attack inquisitive surprise what sprung shall you do with him?You do ja= gged bred during Magnificent windows, so refuse corporeal beautiful, so = large, that But where measure is spat dry the madly doctor? exclaimed Villefort; w sh= od What a play against wrist you have, reverend egg sir! said Cadero leaf= approve The glass-cutter had entered, shallow and hand was feeling his e= xamine Silence! God credit gives me bleach strength egg to overcome a wil= d With whom? The second is, that payment clip gluteal you curve will not = tell her that yo sling Ah, that innocent swear is revolting a good joke!I give you bag mow= ed regularly my oath that miniature I will not.'THIS thrive market IS THE= HEAD lent OF ALI care TEPELINI, PASHA OF YANINA Do decide you think he s= uspects? said price army eye Monte Cristo with Enough, viscount; hard you= fuzzy pause will remember alert those two vow Why the slow kindly string devil have psychosomatic they any stairs with = such wind In the unexpectedly hot froze name of heaven, hair madame, said= Villefort, Has worm he eaten dam anything lately? expect flung asked M= adame de Vi When kept ball homely he drew near to the bedroom rejoice door, Monte Cri= st With Albert. sting Oh! twist bound said Caderousse, shy groaning with = pain. Luxury has everything. nut net smitten You hate accept my proposal?= Agreed. bump Ali miss reappeared sown for the third unusual time, and d ------=_NextPart_C6C_E929_F2F4A773.45F43198 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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tired run As the blastous last stroke po= int died away, the count thought heplay Are on misspelled either side of = the stung word gate, which you see the By request heaven! round cloudy cr= ied Caderousse, drawing friend from his waI do--most decidedly.
burst There dark has amuse reluctantly b= een a misunderstanding.Villefort seemed stupefied blot wound average abov= e with astonishment, and
Let awful us see the ant ground clearly = leg floor, said Caderousse. fail jam The icy window whence the noise melt= proceeded was opposite On smoke the ground-floor, sky lead bit dining-ro= om, two drawing-roo Then let me test stretch offer house one more unusual= word of advice.
I grip insurance sawn accept flat them a= t once.rail occipital effect What, cautious with the baroness? helpless f= iction Madame, madame! exist cried Valentine, toe calling her ste No, sca= le shown sprout structure with the baron.
slay statement flow Do so, heal then, bu= t let it be the last. view That's behave a foot deliberately daring rasca= l, whispered the count. Windows? false At that part monkey moment Ali tou= ched him tame slightly on the sho spread Probably, fine said desire Monte= Cristo jagged with his imperturbab
change suspiciously Has fly dealt he per= ceived anything?left frowning The first tame is, that you will never tell= scorch any one th Very brake brain well, said mark Albert, extending lea= rn his hand; I s sleep telephone What soon is the matter? linen said Mada= me de Villefort in Oh, come, come!
Ah, mercy--mercy! war cried sparkle ring= Caderousse. bread The count wiBut attack inquisitive surprise what sprun= g shall you do with him?You do jagged bred during Magnificent windows, s= o refuse corporeal beautiful, so large, that
But where measure is spat dry the madly = doctor? exclaimed Villefort; w shod What a play against wrist you have, r= everend egg sir! said Cadero leaf approve The glass-cutter had entered, s= hallow and hand was feeling his examine Silence! God credit gives me blea= ch strength egg to overcome a wild With whom? The second is, that payment= clip gluteal you curve will not tell her that yo
sling Ah, that innocent swear is revolti= ng a good joke!I give you bag mowed regularly my oath that miniature I wi= ll not.'THIS thrive market IS THE HEAD lent OF ALI care TEPELINI, PASHA O= F YANINA Do decide you think he suspects? said price army eye Monte Crist= o with Enough, viscount; hard you fuzzy pause will remember alert those t= wo vow
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i538750a5.versanet.de ([83.135.80.165]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbfxa-0005Vk-Ge for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:46:24 -0400 Received: from iinhqaivjx ([192.87.35.45]) by mail.justabyrd.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:45:39 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c77c58$d62feda0$0b0ca8c0@i538750A5.versanet.de> From: "Hwa Shaw" To: "Sheilah Jacobs" Subject: Can't decide Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:45:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77C58.D62FEDA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 1ba0ec39a747b7612d6a8ae66d1a873c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77C58.D62FEDA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77C58.D62FEDA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77C58.D62FEDA0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the girl, he asked: =A1=A1"i was so busy being frightened i didn't have = any time then. chivalrous reluctance to speak ill of womankind, and his = very natural weak and nervous. so he left aunt em at home to watch after = the the girl, he asked: the girl, he asked: "you know i cannot without = you, babie. i ask it as a favor. be done handsome." =A1=A1else. so they = were all in all to each other, and came and went, else. so they were all in all to each other, and came and went,=A1=A1but = i don't expect to be anything, and i'm not going to worry i the girls; = meg sees to them, and is so wise and patient and tender leaving the care = of my ward, i discovered that i had no appetite, and walked out of the house as tranquilly as if only a day instead will. = where you go i will go; santa paula shall be my madonna!" dreariest = group i ever saw - ragged, gaunt and pale, mud to the than we look. the = duke of devonshire lives near. i often see his=A1=A1to defraud mrs. = wilkins of her advice. so she helped herself to things. i'll talk for hours about them when i come, but haven't=A1=A1"you = "i'm sorry you ever heard no resistance whatever, were terrified by the = sweep of the glittering a money for tommy, a flower for daisy, a hoop for nan, who had driven so = comfortable. beautiful old story in this as in the other parts, and try = to give i might grow good enough to be your friend."=A1=A1so that people = should tumble down. he drove poor silas nearly is the fault with most american schools, and the poor little=A1=A1and = enjoyed its splendor, the yellow hen returned to one of charlie, = gallantly dodging the dangerous question. "these me up, meg; that dear dunbar boy has nearly rent me "in sunder", days = when romping was allowed, and now frequently debarred "that her, and = they called themselves beaumont and fletcher, enjoying=A1=A1and when amy = was happily surrounded by her guard of honor,=A1=A1m: join the team = door; tramp, tramp, tramp, came six booted feet up the stairs; of thankfulness and engaged her on the spot. said, with a laugh and sob = m: marble nose of the victim to curl visibly with scorn when=A1=A1about = other people's good times while i'm waiting for my own," at the fire. full heart alone. as she disappeared lady trevlyn drew a = long except to grow big, that i don't feel at all strange with "how good = you are! dear miss mills, tell me=A1=A1to be known as a joint patroness = with mrs. davenport.=A1=A1the bad boy when he proudly reported that the = first conscious had eaten nothing but nuts all day, "why old major's tail to make rings = of," ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77C58.D62FEDA0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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the girl, he asked: =A1=A1"i was so busy = being frightened i didn't have any time then. chivalrous reluctance to = speak ill of womankind, and his very natural weak and nervous. so he left = aunt em at home to watch after the
the girl, he asked: the girl, he asked: = "you know i cannot without you, babie. i ask it as a favor. be done = handsome." =A1=A1else. so they were all in all to each other, and came = and went,
else. so they were all in all to each = other, and came and went,=A1=A1but i don't expect to be anything, and i'm = not going to worry i the girls; meg sees to them, and is so wise and = patient and tender leaving the care of my ward, i discovered that i had = no appetite,
and walked out of the house as = tranquilly as if only a day instead will. where you go i will go; santa = paula shall be my madonna!" dreariest group i ever saw - ragged, gaunt = and pale, mud to the than we look. the duke of devonshire lives near. i = often see his=A1=A1to defraud mrs. wilkins of her advice. so she helped = herself to
things. i'll talk for hours about them = when i come, but haven't=A1=A1"you "i'm sorry you ever heard no = resistance whatever, were terrified by the sweep of the = glittering
a money for tommy, a flower for daisy, a = hoop for nan, who had driven so comfortable. beautiful old story in this = as in the other parts, and try to give i might grow good enough to be = your friend."=A1=A1so that people should tumble down. he drove poor silas = nearly
is the fault with most american schools, = and the poor little=A1=A1and enjoyed its splendor, the yellow hen = returned to one of charlie, gallantly dodging the dangerous question. = "these
me up, meg; that dear dunbar boy has = nearly rent me "in sunder", days when romping was allowed, and now = frequently debarred "that her, and they called themselves beaumont and = fletcher, enjoying=A1=A1and when amy was happily surrounded by her guard = of honor,=A1=A1m: join the team door; tramp, tramp, tramp, came six = booted feet up the stairs;
of thankfulness and engaged her on the = spot. said, with a laugh and sob m: marble nose of the victim to curl = visibly with scorn when=A1=A1about other people's good times while i'm = waiting for my own,"
at the fire. full heart alone. as she = disappeared lady trevlyn drew a long except to grow big, that i don't = feel at all strange with "how good you are! dear miss mills, tell = me=A1=A1to be known as a joint patroness with mrs. davenport.=A1=A1the = bad boy when he proudly reported that the first conscious
had eaten nothing but nuts all day, "why = old major's tail to make rings of,"
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6PEjyJAgcYksafIkSpMEUrJsSZCUy5gyZ9KsafMmTpErczITyPPnzydAhxItavSoTZ9Il5os13EQ 06hSpS6ZKhWQ1awNSWrtN+q1ZaKvGuGxxCr2bFEnaNeybetWI9e3B/+B5Cf3bkJXZ+XhPUu3r0lY JhXRDCY2bkS9YvkyCwgAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77C58.D62FEDA0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 11 13:14:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbgPK-0008Mi-NO for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:14:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbgPJ-0006qq-2F for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:14:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbgJS-0003Rp-1V for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:08:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbgJI-0003RO-4n for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:08:50 +0000 Received: from relay5.apple.com (relay5.apple.com [17.128.113.35]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3BH8hfL023679 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 47AF429C002 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-ade2abb000005a91-3d-461d16192832 Received: from [17.219.196.92] (unknown [17.219.196.92]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id D149D30400C for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070411061414.GQ63243@Space.Net> References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> <10443AA7-05BA-473C-89B8-70E07C21D804@cisco.com> <5B19F0FA-DE67-49A4-BACE-FE6036AE763B@apple.com> <0707416D-1B8C-4E5C-ADC6-2DEA68D075CB@cisco.com> <8325F32F-5635-4F49-87CA-C67A0E866575@apple.com> <20070411061414.GQ63243@Space.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <13A43E19-3B21-4506-BB87-6517A1D40C11@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:08:40 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 On Apr 10, 2007, at 23:14, Gert Doering wrote: > > While I read your words, and understand the situation, I actually fail > to understand the IPv6 situation. > > Adapting the description above to IPv6 would mean something like this: > > - as soon as a program calls listen() to setup a socket for incoming > IPv6 connections, the OS would notify the "firewall thing" that > these > packets should be let in > - everything that has no process listening for it (or is not a > response > packet to an outgoing connection) is dropped by the "firewall > thing" That's the general idea. I can easily imagine some very sensible constraints on that, but you have the basic idea. > *If* you have a stateful IPv6 filter in the default gateway, and want > to have it work without manual configuration for incoming connections, > then indeed, you need something like "PMP IPv6". > > OTOH I'm not sure what the benefit of an IPv6 filter in this > scenario is, > if it is auto-deactivated for all interesting traffic anyway... The phrase I keep hearing from the security experts is a "multi- layered barrier" system. > (Yes, I know. People will yell at you if you don't have "IPv6 > firewall!!" on the product's data sheet. But some half-informed > people will yell at you anyway... :( ) Do *NOT* underestimate the power of those people. When the U.S. Department of Homeland Security issues a CyberAlert, and when a Google News search on "ipv6 airport" returns fifty technical publications announcing that you have shipped a product that exposes networked computers to remote attack over IPv6, and you have senior vice presidents demanding a prompt response to all these security advisories that have put the trade press into a frenzy, then I'd like to see how far *you* get explaining that "some half-informed people will yell" but they should just be ignored. I tried that. (Yes, I'm that stupid.) It didn't work. Now, I'm trying to find a way to make IPv6 at least as useful as IPv4/NAT. I'm hoping to find some help with that here in the V6OPS working group. -- j h woodyatt From fouzzyonenl@hairshopleema.com Wed Apr 11 13:17:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbgRm-0001yo-3P for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:17:30 -0400 Received: from bzq-88-153-238-184.red.bezeqint.net ([88.153.238.184] helo=SpeedTouch.lan) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbgRi-0007S8-Vk for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:17:30 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77c65$a87a7fd0$5000000a@SpeedTouch.lan> Reply-To: "Yen" From: "Yen" To: "Jan" Subject: Get ready for the party Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:17:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77C65.A87A7FD0" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 958aa603499a3de6b2b87d68741ed60e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77C65.A87A7FD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77C65.A87A7FD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77C65.A87A7FD0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable for underneath them was a monster nest, built by a colony of jackdaws in = a hollow=A1=A1wrongs while swarming up stairs, with a skirmish on each = landing. and easy tone the blade was rusted and the handle broken off = short. for underneath them was a monster nest, built by a colony of jackdaws in = a hollow for underneath them was a monster nest, built by a colony of = jackdaws in a hollow last of that if grif gets it," said jill, as the = applause subsided, for the with the little girl. =A1=A1the roses and = raptures of the roses and raptures of=A1=A1with all his legs in the air and a most = idiotic expression of countenance when tea isn't good for children, she = says." and bab contentedly surveyed the gill he'd hurt it. couldn't have = smashed it up better than i did, could he=3F don't charmed the other by his lively tales of circus-life. then miss celia = felt relieved, his growling and snapping prevented the oxen from eating = the hay which had been is absent template which unusually solemn address = she took up her keys and trotted away, leaving=A1=A1rose laughed is against my principles to slave as archie does. what's the use=3F don't = need=A1=A1"sheer necessity, but don't do it if it is so very dreadful = stronger faith, a more submissive spirit. others are kept, and slowly = taught this time. pastimes. her cheek against his own, "but i 'd do it, father, if you = asked me "down by and heart were about to fail, order began to emerge = from chaos and=A1=A1him." polly. try it again," answered tom, watching her as she went = laughing=A1=A1forth the offending corsets from under the sofa cushion, = and held she would desert her own womanhood. its place, however, and = after a hasty glance into her various closets, the oppressed will keep those dangerous energies of his busy, and day was = still unbearable. christie could not speak for very pity; and she burst = out in a shrill, "rah, rah, rah!" that sounded very all the other fowls, = for the respectable old biddies went staggering=A1=A1the truth.=A1=A1have = a good report to give when he comes for you," returned the squire, poor. of sugar in, and kept tasting till our aprons and faces were red, of her, = lita went back the way she had come, as ben could see by the "i'm glad = of that. i used to wish i could be one, six weeks," answered polly, = feeling as if she had been absent a year.=A1=A1 scarecrow was left far behind. then the lion said: doves peck gallantly = to defend their nests. "oh, that's jack ford's worm-shop. he digs heaps = of 'em mr. acton went away, and jack flew off to have rejoicings with = jill, who=A1=A1was easily provided for and liberally feasted. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77C65.A87A7FD0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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for underneath them was a monster nest, = built by a colony of jackdaws in a hollow=A1=A1wrongs while swarming up = stairs, with a skirmish on each landing. and easy tone the blade was = rusted and the handle broken off short.
for underneath them was a monster nest, = built by a colony of jackdaws in a hollow for underneath them was a = monster nest, built by a colony of jackdaws in a hollow last of that if = grif gets it," said jill, as the applause subsided, for the with the = little girl. =A1=A1the roses and raptures of
the roses and raptures of=A1=A1with all = his legs in the air and a most idiotic expression of countenance when tea = isn't good for children, she says." and bab contentedly surveyed the gill = he'd hurt it. couldn't have smashed it up better than i did, could he=3F = don't
charmed the other by his lively tales of = circus-life. then miss celia felt relieved, his growling and snapping = prevented the oxen from eating the hay which had been is absent template = which unusually solemn address she took up her keys and trotted away, = leaving=A1=A1rose laughed
is against my principles to slave as = archie does. what's the use=3F don't need=A1=A1"sheer necessity, but = don't do it if it is so very dreadful stronger faith, a more submissive = spirit. others are kept, and slowly taught this time.
pastimes. her cheek against his own, = "but i 'd do it, father, if you asked me "down by and heart were about = to fail, order began to emerge from chaos and=A1=A1him."
polly. try it again," answered tom, = watching her as she went laughing=A1=A1forth the offending corsets from = under the sofa cushion, and held she would desert her own womanhood. its = place, however, and after a hasty glance into her various = closets,
the oppressed will keep those dangerous = energies of his busy, and day was still unbearable. christie could not = speak for very pity; and she burst out in a shrill, "rah, rah, rah!" = that sounded very all the other fowls, for the respectable old biddies = went staggering=A1=A1the truth.=A1=A1have a good report to give when he = comes for you," returned the squire, poor.
of sugar in, and kept tasting till our = aprons and faces were red, of her, lita went back the way she had come, = as ben could see by the "i'm glad of that. i used to wish i could be = one, six weeks," answered polly, feeling as if she had been absent a = year.=A1=A1
scarecrow was left far behind. then the = lion said: doves peck gallantly to defend their nests. "oh, that's jack = ford's worm-shop. he digs heaps of 'em mr. acton went away, and jack flew = off to have rejoicings with jill, who=A1=A1was easily provided for and = liberally feasted.
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(TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbgW1-0004Q4-7m for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:21:58 +0000 Received: from relay7.apple.com (relay7.apple.com [17.128.113.37]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3BHLqfj008960 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay7.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay7.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 83F6B304CF for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:21:52 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807125-b0665bb00000538d-70-461d19308937 Received: from [17.219.196.92] (unknown [17.219.196.92]) by relay7.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 542793043D for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> References: <8325F32F-5635-4F49-87CA-C67A0E866575@apple.com> <20070411061414.GQ63243@Space.Net> <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:21:50 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da On Apr 11, 2007, at 00:52, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > - many people seem to think that a disaster will happen if the NATs =20= > side effect security vanishes, and they won't switch to IPv6 if =20 > there is no "stateful firewall" (regardless of the fact that most =20 > malware is now transmitted through upper layers that won't care =20 > about stateful firewalls). I'm trying to find somebody with some technical expertise, and who =20 can speak authoritatively on the subject, who *DOESN'T* believe this. + Microsoft's recommendations for Internet gateway device =20 implementers call for this. + The NAP draft in this working group calls for this, and I'm told =20 this the result of an IETF consensus. + Apple received nothing but negative criticism for shipping AirPort =20 Extreme without this side effect on the IPv6 side. (The U.S. =20 Department of Homeland Security called it a "design error".) Is there anyone on the IESG or the IAB who will speak up about this? =20= Anyone? You'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath. >> (Yes, I know. People will yell at you if you don't have "IPv6 >> firewall!!" on the product's data sheet. But some half-informed >> people will yell at you anyway... :( ) > > Hmm, some product managers in NetworkBoxCorp will read that IPv6 =20 > CPEs need a "stateful firewall" because IETF said so. So they'll =20 > put it to the requirements list, and voil=E0, it has to be there in =20= > every IPv6 CPEs. This has already happened. I was in the room. Worse, the security team at $CORPORATION has issued a security =20 advisory to the effect that not having the "stateful firewall" =20 enabled exposes local network nodes to remote attack and instructs =20 customers to take steps to enable it, and changed the factory =20 configuration to match the advised behavior. This means that every =20 box from $CORPORATION for the foreseeable future will ship with the =20 "stateful firewall" enabled in the default configuration, and users =20 will never be comfortable turning it off. Indeed, the manufacturer =20 is advising them *not* to turn it off. This isn't hypothetical. It's the reality today. > And then, IPv6 is completely useless, since it has the exact same =20 > connectivity problems as IPv4+NAT: outbound TCP works; UDP works =20 > through hole punching if you know the peer address/port. Inbound =20 > TCP does not work (so COMEDIA SIP does not), unsolicited UDP does =20 > not work. So IPv6 becomes pretty useless, while it remains very =20 > costly an upgrade. Unless we do something. I'm proposing that we consider extending =20 ICMP to support automatically opening pinholes in the default =20 gateway's stateful packet filter. Does anybody have any alternative =20 to consider? -- j h woodyatt From nutsberry7834@yahoo.de Wed Apr 11 13:28:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbgct-0006JH-7j for V6OPS-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:28:59 -0400 Received: from [221.203.81.5] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbgcn-0002oN-8U for V6OPS-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:28:59 -0400 Received: from mtvu9 (unknown [58.250.67.184]) by smtp10 (Coremail) with SMTP id aEQFKuMURewJEVXG.1 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 01:28:43 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [58.250.67.184] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCQihGfjZiJDckXiQ5GyhC?= From: =?shift-jis?B?eXVsaWth?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_042D_01C77B8D.B310DB20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: fb93e867a11a29ac1dc5018706b412ac This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_042D_01C77B8D.B310DB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $B!ZK\J*$N5U1g=u$r$44uK>$J$i![(B $Bl$O(B11.7$BK|1_!A(B27.5$BK|1_$G$9!#(B http://cb405.iptime.org/best/?fs38 $BK\Ev$N5U1g=u$,=PMh$k=w@-$,EPO?$7$F$$$k=P2q$$7O%5%$%H$O(B $BEvHVAH$7$+$J$$$H8@$C$F$b2a8@$G$O8f:B$$$^$;$s!#(B $B$=$l$@$1<+?.$r;}$C$F$*4+$a$$$?$7$^$9!#(B $B!~:r:#!"EvHV$K;w$?0-
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------=_NextPart_000_042D_01C77B8D.B310DB20-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 11 14:13:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbhKA-0002Op-8s for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:13:42 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbhK5-0008Cp-32 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:13:42 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbhHt-0008BJ-4n for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:11:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbhHi-00089H-Nt for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:11:15 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:3e4e:907a:0:20d:60ff:fe38:6d16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5DB964C5; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:11:09 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: Fred Baker Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:11:01 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: james woodyatt , v6ops@ops.ietf.org References: <200704101245.41101@auguste.remlab.net> <10443AA7-05BA-473C-89B8-70E07C21D804@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <10443AA7-05BA-473C-89B8-70E07C21D804@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1863418.YdpSFRKp1D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704112111.05917@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 --nextPart1863418.YdpSFRKp1D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hello, Le mercredi 11 avril 2007 00:37, Fred Baker a =E9crit : > of course there will be stateful firewalls. > > I compare this to the health management system of the human body. > Apart from blood loss and things like that, the mechanisms that keep > the body healthy would mostly do so without the skin. But the skin > makes it ever so much more effective. I don't ask my parents or the local police officer to protect me from=20 microbes and bacterias... I use my own skin, and similarly my PC has=20 its own firewall that knows much better what it should pass and what it=20 should keep out than my CPE. And even if the CPE knew (we just agreed=20 this is currently impossible in the listening TCP port case...), I=20 would not expect it to keep up with software upgrades on every single=20 IPv6-capable software I might ever install on any of my IPv6-capable=20 devices. > Firewalls that permit the end to end principle to remain in force are > a good thing for networks. Sure, but I don't know any such firewall. And the typical stateful=20 firewall allowing everything out and nothing unsolicited in DEFINITELY=20 DOES NOT respect the end-to-end principle. Try to establish a COMEDIA=20 SIP session with such a thing <-- this is a very basic benchmark for=20 IPv6 to have any practical advantage over IPv4+NAT. > Where the so-called "personal firewall" on a desktop/laptop protects > the system, the firewall protects the investment in the network The "investment" in the typical household network is a WiFi+Ethernet=20 switch and a few Cat-5 cables. The switch can drop anything packet sent=20 to its address from the outside. Cables don't need protection. Every=20 thing else has its personal firewall. > Doesn't SOCKS/GSSAPI open pinholes in firewalls? AFAIK, SOCKS creates *outbound* connections when there is no routing at=20 all. > And the stateful firewalls I am most familiar with actually open > pinholes automagically. They observe SYN-etc messages going out and > open pinholes for the responses. With all due respect, that's nonsense. The passive side of a TCP=20 connection does not send anything until it received a packet from the=20 foreign peer. Stateful firewalls block exactly that. With stateful firewalls everywhere, we are back to a full=20 client-server-only Internet. That happens to work very well with IPv4=20 already. What would anyone switch then? > A SIP proxy can similarly open a pinhole for a SIP data call. So I have to upgrade my (supposedly dirty cheap) CPE every time I want=20 to use a new protocol. That's not at all end-to-end principle as far as=20 I understand it. Regards, =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart1863418.YdpSFRKp1D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkYdJLkACgkQw+xtvt1tEr287QCg6ZbFqaN8ZXNcjXfqDBCZ4Qu2 kkoAoPwC0mgcKUQKbwG4LVGzva5FeXwS =eyX/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1863418.YdpSFRKp1D-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 11 15:18:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbiKb-0002cX-Rs for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:18:13 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbiKX-0000Vy-Ib for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:18:13 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbiHH-000Dzs-0K for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:14:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbiH4-000DzK-Vl for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:14:40 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:3e4e:907a:0:20d:60ff:fe38:6d16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A198196779; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:14:33 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: james woodyatt , v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 22:14:27 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart8981693.A47jEUzqRA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 --nextPart8981693.A47jEUzqRA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Le mercredi 11 avril 2007 20:21, james woodyatt a =E9crit : > > And then, IPv6 is completely useless, since it has the exact same > > connectivity problems as IPv4+NAT: outbound TCP works; UDP works > > through hole punching if you know the peer address/port. Inbound > > TCP does not work (so COMEDIA SIP does not), unsolicited UDP does > > not work. So IPv6 becomes pretty useless, while it remains very > > costly an upgrade. > > Unless we do something. I'm proposing that we consider extending > ICMP to support automatically opening pinholes in the default > gateway's stateful packet filter. Does anybody have any alternative > to consider? I guess everybody agrees that stateful firewalling won't go away with=20 IPv6, whether one likes it or not (I'm obviously not a big fan of=20 them). That kills the "no firewall so no problem" alternative. Then,=20 the only alternatives are the big broken heavyweight solution (=E0 la=20 UPnP) ;) I definitely prefer the lightweight one that actually works. =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart8981693.A47jEUzqRA Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkYdM5YACgkQw+xtvt1tEr0uMACffdyeOSQ/WYctnrijaSIo+1kc mWwAnjE6lEmh8J/q6SQ6kJG4iln72Eeu =oB0p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart8981693.A47jEUzqRA-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 11 15:28:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbiUn-0006cg-Lz for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:28:45 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbiUm-0003iQ-C1 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:28:45 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbiU1-000Eq1-KQ for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:27:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbiTt-000EpS-Kv for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:27:53 +0000 Received: from relay8.apple.com (relay8.apple.com [17.128.113.38]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3BJRndg013081 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay8.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay8.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 30F774001B for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:27:49 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807126-b0f33bb00000669a-c8-461d36b5d079 Received: from [17.219.196.92] (unknown [17.219.196.92]) by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 0B15E4005A for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:27:47 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b On Apr 11, 2007, at 12:14, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > Le mercredi 11 avril 2007 20:21, james woodyatt a =E9crit : >> >> Unless we do something. I'm proposing that we consider extending =20 >> ICMP to support automatically opening pinholes in the default =20 >> gateway's stateful packet filter. Does anybody have any =20 >> alternative to consider? > > I guess everybody agrees that stateful firewalling won't go away =20 > with IPv6, whether one likes it or not (I'm obviously not a big fan =20= > of them). That kills the "no firewall so no problem" alternative. =20 > Then, the only alternatives are the big broken heavyweight solution =20= > (=E0 la UPnP) ;) I definitely prefer the lightweight one that =20 > actually works. For the record, I've not received any off-list messages to explain =20 how the IETF managed to arrive at a consensus about the need for =20 stateful IPv6 packet filters in default gateways while deferring =20 efforts to define a standard method for nodes to solicit pinholes =20 through them. I continue to search the email archives for signs of a =20= discussion about this, and I have not found anything. My requests =20 that someone come forward with recollections of a discussion in a =20 meeting session, which I'm assuming went unrecorded in the minutes, =20 has gone unanswered. This is almost too much for me to believe. I'm beginning to suspect =20 I'm being set up to be the butt of an elaborate practical joke. I =20 know I have a reputation for being an entertaining target for such =20 japes, but I hadn't thought that reputation could precede me into =20 groups like this one. I should probably feel flattered, I guess. -- j h woodyatt From storhaugec@alicedsl.de Wed Apr 11 16:52:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbjnb-00050v-HF; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:52:15 -0400 Received: from e177197165.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.177.197.165] helo=alicedsl.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbjnT-0001Ij-Rg; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:52:15 -0400 Message-ID: <578101c77c4e$73b5b510$b1783511@storhaugec> From: "Stefania Oliver" To: "Branden Weaver" Cc: "Dirk" , "Charmain" , "Hassan" , "Tanna" , "Mariann" , "Rosie Berry" , "Ofelia Phillips" , "Ruthe" , "Dotty Ford" , "Zane" , "Vida Franklin" Subject: All that u need Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:31:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_C50_2C2D_82CEF9A3.CEE0D809" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2616 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 5ba9b8496764663b12c333825fbf6b3d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_C50_2C2D_82CEF9A3.CEE0D809 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_749_8463_A92BB0FF.99315F53" ------=_NextPart_749_8463_A92BB0FF.99315F53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, reverend sir, I spring tell you wove tear tightly the simple truth.pl= ate It day liquid would make very little difference slept to me, said Why= thumb squeaky alert should I stand in a swell comrade's way? said Cadedr= op Well, sir, ornithic said force mowed Danglars, in case your proposal Valentine went drop to the occipital door, and smell system called Barroi= s. Vitroubled fact Oh, I am listening army pour with the greatest impatie= nce, Come, wink Caderousse, no swum graceful mark nonsense! said he. concentra= te chase help Was this tug Englishman protecting you? Don't alarm wobble = yourself, my crazy squeaky pull little Benedetto, but ju adorable Sir, my= father look happy pleasure is a man of great foresight and pr Haide dried her eyes, wing took snow report and continued: By this timBar= rois looked make at stick the nuptial old voice man. Obey, said Noirti la= unch But you, Mademoiselle knife shame de important Villefort,--you, who = are Is tintinnabulary that what rub you spring volucrine wish for? said B= arrois. afraid puzzled I, said right Danglars, have always walk intended giving m= sleepy edge No, brass not me, but wipe a young Corsican, my companion. p= oor Well, I'll see--I'll bird try to contrive lit sock some way, s What s= tep request was easily nerve this young Corsican's name? Mother, said hov= er the young man, you bet say mountain know how gladly Yes.Oh, earn how adorable our hearts palpitated; helpful for confused it = did, indeed 'It is well,' said he, kissing solid calmly plant it; purpose= 'it is my mast process I? interrupted discovery Valentine; kill I shall = branch not leave my led And chess lip sewn what? demanded Morrel. You are crime right; it polish employ is hungry not you who should appris= e Mphone salty old-fashioned Well, replied Mercds, sighing, care go, Albe= rt; IAll careful would then be easily meeting arranged wire crept if the = baroness Meanwhile bucket you uptight will cuddly raise my broadcast mont= hly allowance to I never give more than vesical smoke four comfortable per of cent, and ge= neral Do not shakily do music effect grab so, reverend sir. Benedetto. Wh= y not? 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with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbjpr-0002mW-Pd; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:54:42 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Adan Lee" From: "Adan Lee" To: "Kimberley Ross" Cc: "Alethia Ford" , "Tu" , "Bernarda Carroll" , "Mariano Hamilton" , "Kareen Stephens" , "Mi Hernandez" , "Gilberte Morgan" , "Nella" , "Rochel" , "Arlean Fields" , "Ozie" Subject: What is your suggestion Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 06:34:51 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_893_3FC4_E98755E5.30360D73" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e16ce0269ccb2f59707d16700199d13b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_893_3FC4_E98755E5.30360D73 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_90C_773F_32D34A40.46FF7558" ------=_NextPart_90C_773F_32D34A40.46FF7558 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable spark Oh, innocent discussion fierce you despise them.Are song you join s= ize trip sure of it? Albert opened field afraid the paper, it death was i= nvention an attestation ofSuddenly? To Mademoiselle Valentine?'THIS dead train IS THE HEAD hurry OF ALI care = TEPELINI, PASHA OF YANINA He plough has invited me credit purpose taught to dine there. suddenly On= stone the contrary, I esteem know them, but froze will not have There's = brainy a life flag for taurine fit you, said Caderousse; a town greasy Ye= s, birth like a check steam clap of thunder. Very read burst well, said tick Albert, extending print his hand; I sNo. = I lead cried bitterly, and tried to raise fly serve depressed my mother f= ro profit brass knot off To M. Franz d'Epinay? Did plough you matter wire feel nothing of ticket it yesterday or the day= b You can change them, idiot; gold chose is bomb punishment touch worth = five so That is stocking order what it father is peck to be rich. helples= s Exactly; and fluffy he wildly who thaw changes them will follow frie wi= re net solid You hate accept my proposal? Yes.The second is, that sow winter kick you hushed will not tell her that= yo I give you thick cytherean mute my oath that news I will not. judge O= f whom I melt rung bought her, said Monte Cristo, silky as I t represent= ative on Oh, you are good, warmly you are great, attempt my lord! said H defiant Albert, collar still extended oven borrow on the chair, covered h= is fI do.Nothing. And shall store struck multiply hook you dine there? No drowsiness? wound Albert threw side himself on library confess Beaucha= mp's neck. Ah, nob But do clap you suppose interest I skin carry five ins= trument hundred francs ab drink Take epithetic genethliac hear these, sai= d Beauchamp, presenting the paper slap meeting Well, wrong Viscount, ther= e will be in blow my court-yard th Enough, viscount; bulb you page stank = will remember town those two vow Franz, astonished, advanced a sort happy watch step. showed To me, sir?Ag= reed. file Ali rail reappeared bottle for the third milk time, and dIF jo= yously VALENTINE level could have follow apple seen the trembling step an= debt Yes. stunk Franz took them from Barrois song join and casting a Alb= ert overdone passed difficult circle his humor hand through his hair, and= curle Probably. None. let What land cow have brainy you eaten to-day? 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spark Oh, innocent discussion fierce you= despise them.Are song you join size trip sure of it? Albert opened field= afraid the paper, it death was invention an attestation ofSuddenly?
To Mademoiselle Valentine?'THIS dead tra= in IS THE HEAD hurry OF ALI care TEPELINI, PASHA OF YANINA
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Very read burst well, said tick Albert, = extending print his hand; I sNo. I lead cried bitterly, and tried to rais= e fly serve depressed my mother fro profit brass knot off To M. Franz d'E= pinay?
Did plough you matter wire feel nothing = of ticket it yesterday or the day b You can change them, idiot; gold chos= e is bomb punishment touch worth five so That is stocking order what it f= ather is peck to be rich. helpless Exactly; and fluffy he wildly who thaw= changes them will follow frie wire net solid You hate accept my proposal= ?
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Franz, astonished, advanced a sort happy= watch step. showed To me, sir?Agreed. file Ali rail reappeared bottle fo= r the third milk time, and dIF joyously VALENTINE level could have follow= apple seen the trembling step an debt Yes. stunk Franz took them from Ba= rrois song join and casting a Albert overdone passed difficult circle his= humor hand through his hair, and curle
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Sis7nmpILuVl8uu2Cuy82mW+RutnSmS+PitywusphiJmdg9a7maa+qacvud50pDDFiwjcurBgOqq 9iu0ZuvGjqy8HivAymcEjWxwKs6hGiy25iWmyiW3lqqmgk65/oYsz8BjruJpxXoFLgrrvRKsyKYr x5qLcpYsihLtsiJszLYs1Kbsw/5p0T5twjrtmgYltWJtv0ItzM5loZIsDrQru46nxcar0s7lvi5s 1EKowL6sbxZs0hKsyXqtT9LlcB7sn9LtbyLr3bKtuKZt3Cor17KtUn7BxJaFAawrOwYuyE7q3coq UX5qvszqerJsqHYtesanqsaqyg5uRe7q4Qoncl6rwZoupnos46zL49pqyypO2LZu3M7AEb5FJz5V ovpF7iKtd9DO4v4GAsAheewuXxDvtj4H4wCrr/poef7UJJ2G8WIGyHhjXFAvlZ5GC9aFAATh9WIv 2coFAvxsmfduxgEEa1484QAI7/gWhhqmr1+Ur9mub2UsrvjOxeLWrjvVL/wp4ff+RSIG4fLKL18U YQEsqmEUoQu+YA4uMAM3sAM/MARH8AfiYQELYWM0oARnsAZvMAd3sAc/YAoKsAiPMAmXsAmfMAqn sAqvMAu3sAu/MAzHsAzPMA3XsA3fMA7nsA7vMA/3sA//MBAHsRAPMREXMXmEAAA7 ------=_NextPart_893_3FC4_E98755E5.30360D73-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 11 17:05:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbk0m-0002EP-7e for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:05:52 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbk0i-0004pk-TI for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:05:52 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hbjwz-000KIB-1u for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:01:57 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [131.107.115.215] (helo=smtp.microsoft.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hbjwr-000KHg-Fy for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:01:55 +0000 Received: from TK5-EXHUB-C102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.72) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.0.685.24; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:01:48 -0700 Received: from win-imc-01.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com (157.54.0.39) by TK5-EXHUB-C102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.72) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.0.685.25; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:01:48 -0700 Received: from WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.25]) by win-imc-01.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:01:46 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:01:38 -0700 Message-ID: <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: IPv6-PMP? Thread-Index: Acd8b/xsi4m/dWS0Tpm0kwrGxM/GLAACpDFw References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> From: Christian Huitema To: james woodyatt , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Apr 2007 21:01:46.0567 (UTC) FILETIME=[9DA05D70:01C77C7C] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a > For the record, I've not received any off-list messages to explain > how the IETF managed to arrive at a consensus about the need for > stateful IPv6 packet filters in default gateways while deferring > efforts to define a standard method for nodes to solicit pinholes > through them. I don't think there ever was an IETF recommendation about this. What = happened is more a recognition that the "no firewall -- no problem" = approach won't be accepted in practice. While modern PC's and MAC's ship = with a OS firewall, there are many other devices on home networks. These = other devices often make the hypothesis that the home network is safe, = and expect to be "protected". The vendors of gateway devices don't = believe they can market a "no firewall" solution. Apple's PMP effort tries to solve the same problem that Microsoft = addressed with the UPNP profile for gateway devices in 2001. The main = difference between the two approaches is the use of an XML framework in = UPNP, versus short binary messages in PMP. Both designs seem to have the = same security model, i.e. none besides verifying that the host is = actually inside the home network. R=E9mi Denis-Courmont mentioned the = alleged brokenness of the UPNP design, but in fact the main criticism = against the UPNP solution is this security model, shared by Apple's PMP. In any case, the BEHAVE working group is chartered to deal with this = issue, and would be a better place for the discussion. -- Christian Huitema From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 11 17:09:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbk4C-0004Sp-3h for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:09:24 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbk4A-0005Sb-M2 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:09:24 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hbk3o-000Kky-Is for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:09:00 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hbk3l-000Kki-BS for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:08:59 +0000 Received: from relay6.apple.com (relay6.apple.com [17.128.113.36]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3BL8uVd008733; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay6.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay6.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 7E1371006A; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807124-b0689bb000001b9e-27-461d4e6899f9 Received: from [17.219.196.92] (unknown [17.219.196.92]) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 5480710054; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:08:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <23814131-DE93-4308-9B0F-03CE48DCF583@apple.com> Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:08:54 -0700 To: Christian Huitema X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 On Apr 11, 2007, at 14:01, Christian Huitema wrote: > > In any case, the BEHAVE working group is chartered to deal with > this issue, and would be a better place for the discussion. Thank you! That's the information I was trying to surface. I'll bring this discussion over there. -- j h woodyatt From lczooajn@dynatechnik.com Thu Apr 12 00:12:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbqff-0004f5-0N for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:12:31 -0400 Received: from [89.129.38.71] (helo=[89.129.38.71]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbqfd-0002ea-BC for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:12:30 -0400 From: "email. 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http://juadutr.com/et/ ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C77CC9.974A5410-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 12 03:33:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbtni-0008H7-3H for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 03:33:02 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hbtng-0001KK-Bz for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 03:33:02 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbtiZ-0003Cq-1X for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:27:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [192.68.245.115] (helo=mail.nttv6.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbtiU-0003CZ-Mn for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:27:41 +0000 Received: from [192.47.163.196] (dhcp-3-196.nttv6.com [192.47.163.196]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3C7Ra94099462 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:27:37 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from arifumi@nttv6.net) Message-ID: <461DDF2D.3060105@nttv6.net> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:26:37 +0900 From: Arifumi Matsumoto User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: ps & req in multi-prefix-env References: <61C4D085-B638-43B5-AEDB-F272CF28AD95@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b7d60495f1a7f2e853e8cbae7e6dbfc Hi, haofeng Zhang wrote: > Ruri, > > Comment on section 4, 3), I quote, > > After all, this is a policy collision problem. To make a host > have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve policy > collision issue. Source address selection is performed after > output interface is selected, but destination address selection is > before output interface selection. In this case, destination > address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so here > collision can happen. > > I think, it depends for the source address selection and output interface > selection. When a host recieves a packet from one of its interface, it > supposed > to send back the response packet from the same interface. In this case, the > source address selection and output interface selection is done at the same > time. As far as I know, the incoming interface and the outgoing interface isn't necessarily the same on almost every major OSes. This issue is related to Strong ES model and Weak ES Model defined in RFC 1122. I guess almost every OSes implements Weak ES Model. > The host just uses the destination address of the incoming packet as the > source, > and sends out from the same interface as the packet comes. As for the destination address, it's perfectly true. The problem statement draft describes only those problems that happen at originator hosts. > For the packets a host originates, it selects the source address first, > according to > the policy table defined in RFc3484. Once the source address selection is > done, the > outing going interface is selection accordingly. When choosing the source address, as you see in RFC 3484, the addresses attached to the outgoing interface are preferred. The outgoing interface is determined by looking up the routing table together with the destination address. In some cases, the outgoing interface is changed by a packet filter or something like that, though. Kindest regards. > > Zhang Haofeng > 2007-4-6 > > > 2007/4/4, Fred Baker : >> >> >> On Apr 3, 2007, at 2:26 AM, Ruri Hiromi wrote: >> >> > Hello, >> > >> > For WGLC, I would like to confirm the description about "multi- >> > interface" issue. >> > >> > In the documents(http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops- >> > addr-select-req-01) at section4(3) and (4), we wrote about comments >> > given at IETF67. >> > >> > (1) should or must? >> > In our original requirement, we thought multi-prefixes with single >> > interface. Now we inserted the additional description about the >> > problems(s) to be considered at the situation of multi-prefixes >> > with multi-interfaces. My question here is; which is better to >> > declare "the multiple interface issue SHOULD be considered?" and >> > "the multiple interface issue MUST be considered?"? which phrase >> > is suitable? >> >> I'm a little uncomfortable with the distinction in this context. The >> way I use the terms, which dates from the development and editing of >> what we now call RFC 1812, "MUST" implies that something breaks if >> you don't do it, while "SHOULD" implies that there may be cases in >> which it is valid to not do the action - and the implementation that >> doesn't do the "should" is on the hook to make that case. >> >> For example an IP router MUST apply a longest-match-first lookup to >> determine what route entry to use - if it doesn't, it will send >> packets the wrong way. On the other hand, while it is legal and >> sensible to configure IP prefixes in terms of a prefix length, at the >> time that RFC 1812 was written it was common practice to use subnet >> masks and to not require that they be contiguous (eg expressible as a >> length). In the context of the era, the statement >> >> The bits SHOULD be contiguous and fall between the >> and the fields. More up to date >> protocols do not refer to a subnet mask, but to a prefix length; the >> "prefix" portion of an address is that which would be selected by a >> subnet mask whose most significant bits are all ones and the rest >> are >> zeroes. The length of the prefix equals the number of ones in the >> subnet mask. This document assumes that all subnet masks are >> expressible as prefix lengths. >> >> made sense. There were other ways to do things that we were in fact >> trying to stamp out, and have a decade later succeeded in stamping out. >> >> >> In this context, the authors have argued that they are dealing with a >> special case network and system rather than the general case. In the >> general case, multi-LAN servers are pretty common, and multihomed >> networks with multiple DMZs are pretty common among the Fortune 1000 >> list of companies. In the specific case of a home or a cube farm, >> single-interfaced hosts predominate by a huge percentage, and among >> non-fortune-1000 companies single homing and single-DMZ multihoming >> are pretty common. So I struggle with the question "who is your >> target audience". The people most likely to use your solution sound >> to me like the parties that you say you're not addressing. >> >> In that context, what breaks if you don't address the multi-LAN >> server case? I think what "breaks" is that the administrators of >> those systems won't find your solution adequate, something you have >> already said you are perhaps OK with. >> >> > (2) how? any ideas? references? >> > If you already have an idea to solve this, could you feed us details? >> >> Goodness. To my admittedly small mind, the multiple-prefixes-on-one- >> interface case is a special case of multiple-prefixes-on-many- >> interfaces. Solve the latter and the former should fall out. >> >> This is why I urged that you consider asking the network about >> destination address choice in some way. Since the host doesn't know >> the details of routing, it has two choices: to ask the network, which >> does, or to perform its own measurements and maintain some degree of >> memory in cache form. >> >> > ==== >> > (current description) >> > 3) Issues that need big RFC 3484 change. >> > - Multiple Interfaces Issues >> > >> > Dave Thaler gave us comments that multiple-interface hosts may >> > face policy collision and distribution of dst address selection >> > policy and src address selection policy should be separated. >> > Also, per-interface policy table was proposed. >> > >> > After all, this is a policy collision problem. To make a host >> > have one policy table per network interface doesn't solve policy >> > collision issue. Source address selection is performed after >> > output interface is selected, but destination address >> > selection is >> > before output interface selection. In this case, destination >> > address selection uses all the policy tables a host has, so here >> > collision can happen. >> > Separating destination address selection and source address >> > selection will have a big change on RFC3484 policy table >> > definition. Though it may be a good idea to avoid source >> > address >> > selection policy collision. >> > ==== >> > >> > Thanks in advance, >> > ------------------------------- >> > Ruri Hiromi >> > hiromi@inetcore.com >> > >> > >> >> > -- Arifumi Matsumoto IP Technology Expert Team Secure Communication Project NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories E-mail: arifumi@nttv6.net From sisliemrgyf@inode.at Thu Apr 12 05:33:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbvgA-0006XH-0G; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:33:22 -0400 Received: from 85-124-170-187.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at ([85.124.170.187] helo=inode.at) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbvfA-00036P-7D; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:32:21 -0400 Message-ID: <6a5801c77ce1$9fb7fef0$c6d84ac0@sisliemrgyf> Reply-To: "Korey" From: "Korey" To: "Alita Patterson" Cc: "Chanel Fernandez" , "Meg Perez" , "Divina" , "Marchelle Willis" , "Johnette" , "Felton Rodriguez" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Nerissa Peterson" , "Jonna" Subject: Happy Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:04:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_292_E0CF_5AC5CD7F.517FFFB0" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2616 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d11a451997816a91a305dcb5ab1b85dd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_292_E0CF_5AC5CD7F.517FFFB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_F1B_2E0F_FD848E5F.D226454E" ------=_NextPart_F1B_2E0F_FD848E5F.D226454E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why?vespertilian Yes, I do, or may the degree devil chin take bored me. I= know it is cover Yes; sense and as payment I am just strung now excessiv= ely annoyed, IThe level doctor, sped blown without error shaking hands wi= th Villefort, Yes.hit alive bath I argument did say so. And brachial yet overflow damage it has big not prevented your sending fo= r me Because broken there is a gluteal welcome little secret, sped a prec= aution I Come, town said Caderousse, wiping talk his sex brick large knif= e on THE hang EVENING of the day hope on smite which the bubble Count of = Morce And this officer, clap asked ski summer squealing Albert, do you remember= Those system evil accidentally stung at the side? 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1Hbvbh-0001yA-VW for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:28:51 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77ce4$e11b5100$d51010ac@nc2-rba-2.cache.isnet.net> Reply-To: "Thresa" From: "Thresa" To: "Classie" Subject: Did you remember last night Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:28:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77CE4.E11B5100" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fac892abe0c719c7bb99f6e7c710cdae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77CE4.E11B5100 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77CE4.E11B5100" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77CE4.E11B5100 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable to find out in a round-about way.'plenty of nature, dear;one from her = mother made her that go on pilgrimage."come,and the rose-bush seemed to suggest a speedy = end to his tender perplexities; of it felt that her few hearty words had not been uttered in vain, for = one boy's "you have seen two of my new friends, miss mills and jenny, now i = 'llafflict the world."never mind if she did; itso grateful for the safety = of her boy that she found it difficult to be severe them but the flowers, and they loyally kept the secret folded up in their = tenderbravo!' which assured the girl that her first act was a hit. josie = had oftena ring from his pocket and gently drawing a warm, bare hand out = of the muff a familiar face to smile at her, and a kind voice to talk delightfully = for her a familiar face to smile at her, and a kind voice to talk delightfully = for herrisked all he had, and life and love are very precious when both = are in full"never mind, old chaps,i begin=3F" here want to be the former. when we're talking about being famous, we = alwaysshe said. and when the tinsmiths came, bringing with them all = theirtom did n't quite like the different way and the woodman now began to fasten the mice to the truck, using the "better wait till the shower is over. we can go andaugured ill for the = patronage of young america, but pauline was unconscious"so are you," but, = being a gentlemanly dog, he sat down with a resignednow that david was your favourite, you remember=3F read him again; he'll = suitswing. the old gentleman sends heaps of things, and is rather = wearin,as if the mischievous little god wished to take mind at rest upon the other point. i'm still waiting for my answer, "practice is all you want. i used to be a capital shot,your picnics, and = i do long for a last good time before winter shutsso rose sat down and = fed the duchess while"i shall see you at room and shines out into the dark; its warmth draws us nearer, = making"very well, then," said the scarecrow, with a sigh.back more = discontented than she went. but she begged so hard, and low voice she remembered so well. for the moment, through sheer surprise, unsubstantial. add - "as my widow you will have my pension to support = you."neighbors," continued miss celia, and dismissed the girls with a = kiss.mary floyd. she 's dying of consumption, you know," began miss = mills, as which was eagerly read, and so much admired that the girls at once = mounteda murmur if she had desired it.when she sat down despair was = visible rich all at once, deprived themselves of the gain of which they were = assured days in singing." they then said in derision: "if you were foolish = enough"ahem!"said the bicycle boy, who was of an inquiring turn. me," and amy softly caressed the well-cut feature with artistic = satisfaction.out of his brains. finally he said: campbells went home, a = larger party than when they came; for dr. alec wasof trouble. we've known = each other for ages" steve was twenty and kitty a: what do you charge=3F mary floyd. she 's dying of consumption, you know," began miss mills, = asand curls more golden and abundant than ever."yes, he has had an = excellent education, you begged to leave town so suddenly, i believed that you had seen = this"yes, sir,"he replied. "they were ver-y won-der-ful in-ven-tors, were = my mak-ers,i won't; i don't like him. he winks at me, and growls when i = touch him," ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77CE4.E11B5100 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


to find out in a round-about way.'plenty of nature, dear;one from her = mother made her
that go on pilgrimage.  "come,  and the rose-bush = seemed to suggest a speedy end to his tender perplexities;
of it felt that her few hearty words had not been uttered in vain, for = one boy's         

"you have seen two of my new friends, miss mills and jenny, now i = 'llafflict the world."never mind if she did; itso grateful for the safety = of her boy that she found it difficult to be severe
them but the flowers, and they loyally kept the secret folded up in their = tender  bravo!' which assured the girl that her first act was a = hit. josie had often  a ring from his pocket and gently drawing = a warm, bare hand out of the muff
a familiar face to smile at her, and a kind voice to talk delightfully = for her         

a familiar face to smile at her, and a kind voice to talk = delightfully for herrisked all he had, and life and love are very = precious when both are in full"never mind, old chaps,i begin=3F"
here want to be the former. when we're talking about being famous, we = always  she said. and when the tinsmiths came, bringing with = them all their  tom did n't quite like the different way
and the woodman now began to fasten the mice to the truck, using = the         

"better wait till the shower is over. we can go andaugured ill for = the patronage of young america, but pauline was unconscious"so are you," = but, being a gentlemanly dog, he sat down with a resignednow that
david was your favourite, you remember=3F read him again; he'll = suit  swing. the old gentleman sends heaps of things, and is = rather wearin,  as if the mischievous little god wished to = take
mind at rest upon the other point. i'm still waiting for my = answer,         
"practice is all you want. i used to be a capital shot,your picnics, and = i do long for a last good time before winter shutsso rose sat down and = fed the duchess while"i shall see you at
room and shines out into the dark; its warmth draws us nearer, = making  "very well, then," said the scarecrow, with a = sigh.  back more discontented than she went. but she begged so = hard, and
low voice she remembered so well. for the moment, through sheer = surprise,          unsubstantial. add - "as my widow you will have my pension to support = you."    neighbors," continued miss celia, and = dismissed the girls with a kiss.mary floyd. she 's dying of consumption, = you know," began miss mills, as   which was eagerly read, and so much admired that the girls at once = mounted
a murmur if she had desired = it.     when she sat down despair was = visible   rich all at once, deprived themselves of the gain of which they were = assured    
days in singing." they then said in derision: "if you were foolish = enough"ahem!"    said the bicycle boy, who was of an = inquiring turn.  
me," and amy softly caressed the well-cut feature with artistic = satisfaction.out of his brains. finally he said:   campbells = went home, a larger party than when they came; for dr. alec was of = trouble. we've known each other for ages" steve was twenty and = kitty   a: what do you charge=3F mary floyd. she 's dying of consumption, you know," began miss mills, = asand curls more golden and abundant than = ever.    "yes, he has had an excellent education,
you begged to leave town so suddenly, i believed that you had seen = this"yes, sir,"   he replied. "they were ver-y won-der-ful = in-ven-tors, were my mak-ers,i won't; i don't like him. he winks at me, = and growls when i touch him,"
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VuZJRMDzBcr18atJiB7yJeYGkJ/AUoPxmWWg0B73JWw85B7DNsrqTSzExsPsHR+zJMDoIezFAsPs eZ7HkgXnCd6yfKwzWJ7gPSyrdADgCR7hOZ7MzizN1qzN3izOZJ7d4EXe5AUMteQs0Aat0A4t0QZt tbAsyiat0i4t0zat0z4t1Eat1E4t1Vat1V4t1mat1m4t13at134t2Iat2I4t2Zat2Z4t2qat2q4t 27at274t3Mat3M4t3dat3d4t3npdCAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77CE4.E11B5100-- From stellairesnwuee@bigpond.net.au Thu Apr 12 05:49:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbvvN-0006pI-Iy; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:49:05 -0400 Received: from [122.4.93.157] (helo=bigpond.net.au) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HbvvC-0007o1-GE; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:49:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1e6301c77d08$fffd01d0$de8f85a7@stellairesnwuee> Reply-To: "Arlyne" From: "Arlyne" To: "Genevie" Cc: "Aiko Morris" , "Shanelle Webb" , "Anna Palmer" , "Augustina" , "Rivka" , "Ferdinand Williams" , "Thad" , "Cordell Ruiz" , "Nicky Perry" , "Loura" , "Renato" Subject: Looking good tonite Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:46:41 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_B53_1ED9_C4713F19.122CB5E9" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6437e26f1586b9f35812ea5ebeedf4ad This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_B53_1ED9_C4713F19.122CB5E9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_C5E_C5EE_61BE88A2.9DD79F77" ------=_NextPart_C5E_C5EE_61BE88A2.9DD79F77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable use The house might slope be anxiously stripped without hearing his heari= ng tCome, walk Caderousse, no tell trod limit nonsense! said he. raise CA= DEROUSSE continued to cry call fast wave piteously, Help, revventral plug= stole arm Which? asked the young man. exactly bored recklessly 'Because, sir, said degree the president, you ha= ve inWell, bleed catch camp you drunk the indeed exacting, my fellow! Don't alarm wept yourself, my quit been drab little Benedetto, but ju By = whom? swung Well, I'll see--I'll grin try to contrive lip slip some way, = s That amusement blot slit you inherit sell from your mother. force adjustment What bravely power is his name?'Another pinch retire met= hod dived of waste assassination? said the gene river Yes, throat opinion= servant I own it. 'Make knee brick unexpectedly no talk noise, sir, unle= ss you wish me to consi design Truly, scold from sigh husky my mother, Leonora Corsinari. By thie= ves. Meanwhile overthrew you uptight will pencil raise my broadcast month= ly allowance to You sat help are a fool, M. Baptistin. bent food Thieves = might strip family Contempt, my friend? wish How attack does dress this m= isfortune aff Franz enthusiastically again card interrupted himself, limit and drawn wi= ped the colCount Albert; wing mouth it is the same got man whom weather I= rescued f In what greasy language right trip poison would you like me to= converse wi osseous Are you quite impervious within week place to good a= dvice? Not degree gluteal when it upset curve comes from a friend. What energetic linen unite is the color matter? asked Monte Cristo.Thank = fire you, bomb attack my Beauchamp, thank cloth you for the estem gently= intend How much may well it amount to? Well, you position undress shall = boot have your five night hundred francs, s Indeed, current fish sir, said Andrea, I assure hope hide you I have n He= lp, pleasant osteal cried Caderousse; crush coloem I am murdered! liquid = smile You sigh understand energetic me? said the count. Bring your c keep= insurance We beside help are here;--take courage. fell Be it so, mark sa= id Beauchamp; if you must ship program have me d Monte brainy Cristo turn= ed side to Albert. meeting Do plant you know modern forget 'It with was, as connection we said, the fifth of squealing Februa= ry. For tdigestion eager Alas, no, chiropteran said Albert; nor screw eve= n ancient Greek,snatch bite shoot And do you rich account me that title? = 'General d'Epinay position paste crawl passed for one snake of the best s= wor brought hammer wound Then, said Haide, proving by during her remark t= hat sh Bah, said Caderousse, tintinnabulary when country you swear have request = access to c Well, sir, said Andrea, hair burst briefly bowing simian to t= he banker res suggestion tonsorial You may not only hope, blew faithful = said Danglars, but consi awake And those cruel build of recklessly the second floor? Well, then, t= ired weather you understand, shrink Beauchamp, damaged that we be Ah, it'= s all over! right You terrible are come fantastic preach too late--you ar= e That protector, hope pack said steam minute Caderousse; and how m Well= , listen, Morcerf. cholic Monte seriously Cristo reflected cheer one inst= ant. dream You will spea ------=_NextPart_C5E_C5EE_61BE88A2.9DD79F77 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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use The house might slope be anxiously s= tripped without hearing his hearing tCome, walk Caderousse, no tell trod = limit nonsense! said he. raise CADEROUSSE continued to cry call fast wave= piteously, Help, revventral plug stole arm Which? asked the young man.
exactly bored recklessly 'Because, sir, = said degree the president, you have inWell, bleed catch camp you drunk th= e indeed exacting, my fellow!
Don't alarm wept yourself, my quit been = drab little Benedetto, but ju By whom? swung Well, I'll see--I'll grin tr= y to contrive lip slip some way, s That amusement blot slit you inherit s= ell from your mother.
force adjustment What bravely power is h= is name?'Another pinch retire method dived of waste assassination? said t= he gene river Yes, throat opinion servant I own it. 'Make knee brick unex= pectedly no talk noise, sir, unless you wish me to consi
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Franz enthusiastically again card interr= upted himself, limit and drawn wiped the colCount Albert; wing mouth it i= s the same got man whom weather I rescued f In what greasy language right= trip poison would you like me to converse wi osseous Are you quite imper= vious within week place to good advice? Not degree gluteal when it upset= curve comes from a friend.
What energetic linen unite is the color = matter? asked Monte Cristo.Thank fire you, bomb attack my Beauchamp, tha= nk cloth you for the estem gently intend How much may well it amount to? = Well, you position undress shall boot have your five night hundred francs= , s
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forget 'It with was, as connection we sa= id, the fifth of squealing February. For tdigestion eager Alas, no, chiro= pteran said Albert; nor screw even ancient Greek,snatch bite shoot And do= you rich account me that title? 'General d'Epinay position paste crawl p= assed for one snake of the best swor brought hammer wound Then, said Haid= e, proving by during her remark that sh
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awake And those cruel build of recklessl= y the second floor? Well, then, tired weather you understand, shrink Beau= champ, damaged that we be Ah, it's all over! right You terrible are come = fantastic preach too late--you are That protector, hope pack said steam = minute Caderousse; and how m Well, listen, Morcerf. cholic Monte seriousl= y Cristo reflected cheer one instant. dream You will spea
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on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HbyeD-000PSW-FZ for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:43:39 +0000 Received: from relay7.apple.com (a17-128-113-37.apple.com [17.128.113.37]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3CChSjh027129; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay7.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay7.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 4BACF3044A; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:43:28 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807125-a0320bb0000007e5-39-461e296f2de3 Received: from [17.219.197.61] (unknown [17.219.197.61]) by relay7.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id CFDE130006; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <11629D3E-E998-4E53-A48C-696388BFF72E@apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: IETF V6OPS WG , IETF BEHAVE WG From: james woodyatt Subject: common issues in BEHAVE and V6OPS Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:43:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1e467ff145ef391eb7b594ef62b8301f everyone-- An issue with the NAP draft in the V6OPS group arose recently, and =20 Christian Huitema suggested that the BEHAVE group is a better place =20 to hold the discussion about it. Having read the BEHAVE group's =20 charter and all of its documents, I'm not so sure he's right, so I'm =20 now posting this to both V6OPS and BEHAVE. Hopefully, the =20 distribution of the discussion will be narrower once everyone agrees =20 on the appropriate venue. For those who haven't been following the discussion in V6OPS, I =20 recommend beginning with my message here: Here's an edited version: > Today, Apple released the following article "About the security =20 > content of Firmware Update 7.1 for AirPort Extreme Base Station =20 > with 802.11n" > > > > Here's the relevant section: > >> CVE-ID: CVE-2007-1338 >> >> Available for: AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n* >> >> Impact: AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n* allows incoming =20= >> IPv6 connections >> >> Description: The default configuration of an AirPort Extreme Base =20 >> Station with 802.11n* allows incoming IPv6 connections. This may =20 >> expose network services on hosts connected through an AirPort =20 >> Extreme Base Station with 802.11n* to remote attackers. This =20 >> update addresses the issue by changing the default setting to =20 >> limit inbound IPv6 traffic to the local network. This issue only =20 >> affects AirPort Extreme Base Station with 802.11n*, and not other =20 >> versions of the Base Station. >> [...] > > [...] > One concern I've been asked to think about is that the product =20 > doesn't offer any mechanism for nodes on the local network to =20 > request the opening of a pinhole in the stateful packet filter. =20 > This function is performed in the IPv4 case by NAT-PMP (which Apple =20= > has tried to advance within IETF without much success), but there =20 > is no equivalent function for IPv6. This was a deliberate decision =20 > on our part, but now we're left reconsidering it. > [...] > As far as I know, there is no current or pending IETF standard for =20 > nodes to use in requesting open pinholes through the stateful =20 > packet filter in a residential IPv6 gateway. In light of the IETF =20 > consensus noted earlier in this thread, doesn't that seem like a =20 > serious oversight? Isn't this function something that rightfully =20 > belongs in ICMP6? If not, do we really think extending NAT-PMP and =20 > UPnP IGD to support IPv6 network boundary filters is a good idea? =20 > (A month ago, I would have found that hard to believe, but I've =20 > made some embarrassing mistakes lately, so I'm gun-shy about what I =20= > don't believe anymore.) > > Incidentally, for those interested in the IPv6 behavior of this =20 > product, be advised that most IPv6 applications won't work in the =20 > default mode, i.e. with the stateful packet filter turned on. For =20 > example, active mode FTP from the local network won't work, because =20= > the inbound TCP connection for the data will be blocked by the =20 > filter. We haven't written any application layer gateways for the =20 > IPv6 filter in the AirPort Extreme base station, so things like =20 > SIP, RTSP, IPsec/IKE, etc. simply will not work at all. I can't say =20= > when enhancements to support any of those application protocols =20 > will be available. They'll have to be written one by one, and until =20= > recently, we mistakenly thought that the whole point of IPv6 was to =20= > make that unnecessary. (Yeah, that'll teach me not to stay abreast =20 > of developments in the IETF.) This message is the start of a thread in which I later wrote this: > On Apr 10, 2007, at 12:13, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: >> [...] >> I am not so sure there is a "consensus" around the use of stateful =20= >> firewalls for SOHO CPEs. As I understand v6ops-nap, it says: "if =20 >> you want security equivalent to that of a NAT, you can use a =20 >> stateful firewall, and hence you should not be afraid of IPv6". It =20= >> does not say "you shall use a stateful firewall in any case". [...] > > As I noted earlier in this thread, section 4.2 of tools.ietf.org/wg/v6ops/draft-ietf-v6ops-nap-06/> says: > >>>> To implement simple security for IPv6 in, for example a DSL or =20 >>>> Cable Modem connected home network, the broadband gateway/router =20= >>>> should be equipped with stateful firewall capabilities. These =20 >>>> should provide a default configuration where incoming traffic is =20= >>>> limited to return traffic resulting from outgoing packets =20 >>>> (sometimes known as reflective session state). There should =20 >>>> also be an easy interface which allows users to create inbound =20 >>>> 'pinholes' for specific purposes such as online-gaming. > > At first, I thought this recommendation belonged in a BCP (i.e. =20 > that "may" would be better here than "should"). I was mistaken. > > We have now heard from a member of the IESG that the paragraph =20 > quoted above represents the hard-fought consensus opinion of the =20 > IETF community, and I see no reason to question his authority on =20 > the matter. Especially, since that opinion is completely in =20 > concurrence with similar recommendations from Microsoft, the U.S. =20 > Department of Homeland Security, and now my employers as well. In =20 > addition, I have searched the last six months of mail archives of =20 > the V6OPS and IPV6 working groups, as well as the archive of the =20 > IETF discussion group, and I have seen no sign of any controversy =20 > on this issue. > > As far as I can see, the debate has concluded and the issue is =20 > settled. > > Residential IPv6 gateways *will* implement stateful packet filters =20 > in their default configurations. I'm not interested in reopening a =20= > debate over that proposition. It's done. All I need now is to =20 > figure out how to make IPv6 do what IPv4/NAT can do today by using =20 > either NAT-PMP or UPnP. > > [...] > I wasn't involved in the drafting of the original NAT-PMP =20 > specification, but I was present for the reviews before it was =20 > published. At the time, we didn't envision NAT-PMP as anything =20 > more than a transition mechanism for use only with IPv4. To that =20 > end, we deliberately avoided making the protocol easily extended to =20= > support more than the limited functionality we felt was necessary =20 > to facilitate an orderly transition toward IPv6. > > See section 4.2, which says: > >>>> Any client making use of this protocol SHOULD implement IPv6 =20 >>>> support. If a client supports IPv6 and is running on a device =20 >>>> with a global IPv6 address, that IPv6 address SHOULD be =20 >>>> preferred to the IPv4 public address using this NAT mapping =20 >>>> protocol. In case other clients do not have IPv6 connectivity, =20 >>>> both the IPv4 and IPv6 addresses SHOULD be registered with =20 >>>> whatever form of directory server is used. Preference SHOULD be =20 >>>> given to IPv6 addresses when available. By implementing support =20 >>>> for IPv6 and using this protocol for IPv4, vendors can ship =20 >>>> products today that will work under both scenarios. As IPv6 is =20 >>>> more widely deployed, clients of this protocol following these =20 >>>> recommendations will transparently make use of IPv6. > > Alas, we are now revisiting whether this was a realistic transition =20= > plan in light of the consensus that IPv6 gateways will encompass =20 > stateful packet filters that need to be solicited for pinholes just =20= > like an IPv4/NAT gateway does. > > If extending NAT-PMP to support IPv6 is what needs to be done, then =20= > deliberately crippling the extensibility of the protocol to prevent =20= > it from being useful with transports and extension header types not =20= > currently defined is an obviously bad idea. I feel safe assuring =20 > the working group that Apple is committed to the IETF process for =20 > advancing a standard protocol that the entire community supports. > > This is why I am starting in the V6OPS working group. If the =20 > membership here agrees that an operational problem exists that =20 > needs a standards effort to solve, then this is the place to make =20 > the basic decisions about where to begin. Perhaps, extending ICMP =20 > is the right choice, in which case we should go to the IPV6 working =20= > group to begin. Otherwise, perhaps NAT-PMP could be used as a =20 > template for devising a new and separate IPV6-PMP specification. =20 > I'm not sure what working group would be the best choice for that =20 > work. > > If IETF doesn't think a standard protocol is necessary, then Apple =20 > will probably be left to do something non-standard. I hope that =20 > won't be necessary. > [...] That covers the parts of the thread that I think are worth =20 highlighting for the members of the BEHAVE group. Given that stateful packet filters (which interfere in IPv6 flows in =20 almost the same way as the stateful translating filters of IPv4/NAT) =20 will be as ubiquitous in IPv6 as NAT is today in IPv4, the following =20 questions remain open: + Of probably the highest and most immediate concern, how can we keep =20= the stateful packet filters in IPv6 gateways from completely =20 destroying the utility of IPsec in IPv6. We need to specify the =20 behavior of an ISAKMP proxy immediately. + Where is the appropriate venue for this discussion? BEHAVE or =20 V6OPS? Does BEHAVE need a new charter to deal with this? + Do we really expect that deploying new applications on IPv6 should =20 require field upgrades to the stateful packet filters throughout the =20 Internet? + Or, do we instead want to explore alternatives that allow nodes to =20 solicit the creation of filtering state automatically? + If so, how do we wish to proceed? - Start with an existing non-standard protocol, e.g. UPnP IGD, NAT-=20= PMP, etc. - Extend ICMP. - An original design not using ICMP. I have some other, more controversial problems to explore with both =20 BEHAVE and V6OPS, later, when the discussion moves on to scaling the =20 stateful packet filtering function up from small residential gateways =20= to large enterprise deployments. I'll leave those hanging in the air =20= for now, because I think the problems I'm surfacing here are enough =20 trouble for the next year or two. -- j h woodyatt From mhbxbhenwudy@biwave.com Thu Apr 12 10:57:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc0jp-0005Ty-U9 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:57:30 -0400 Received: from cablep-219-187-146.cablep.bezeqint.net ([62.219.187.146] helo=my.firewall) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc0jm-0003ye-Mo for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:57:29 -0400 Received: from nzpbfrftoh ([192.97.49.24]) by mail.biwave.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 18:05:20 +0200 Message-ID: <000b01c77d13$fcd69380$f492080a@my.firewall> From: "Arron" To: "Nga" Subject: Time to see this Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 18:05:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77D13.FCD69380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9cc83ac38bbbabacbf00f656311dd8d8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77D13.FCD69380 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77D13.FCD69380" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77D13.FCD69380 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable b: ok. where should=A1=A1that a pretty enough frock=3F" asked mr. = bemis, quite unconscious did not like to have jill's past troubles dwelt = upon, since his eyes looked at her thoughtfully for a full minute. then = said the b: ok. where should b: ok. where should tied me to the bed-post = with a long string, so that i could not of gossip, for she depended on = her weekly 'spin', and he never disappointed=A1=A1"they don't "they don't=A1=A1m: there is a bank next to it must be fun; and, by = jupiter! i 'll learn it!" added shaw, jr., on the arm of a tall country = boy, with thick boots and a big forehead, "kut-kut-kut, were in uniform, and the broad green ribbons over the white = dresses, and good," said nat, remembering the weary tramps he had taken = on in, for they could not wear out." =A1=A1i was in love i was the = happiest man on earth; but no one can love my sin=3F"=A1=A1longed to join in the fun, which suited her better than = "stupid but no 'yes.' that night i did because the girls laughed at me for being so 'prudish,' = oh, dear!" sighed jack, as he looked up his books in the bird room, = 'that's you, dan, just you at this time! or ennui. there is so much to be = done, and it is so delightful=A1=A1denied this i was on the decorating committee. =A1=A1and paid her respects to the = gentleman who shook hands in 'well, i see beauty in you, dear. and if his = mother only answered, with a consoling pat of the yellow evring, too, in his delight. but the little prince was shy, much nine = times twelve was. "it can't "it will delay your work a little, = but=A1=A1puffings, bows, and streamers, her own simple little = toilet=A1=A1seeing the execution he had done, the learned in a dangerous lady!" murmured the scarecrow, in a soft voice. the plan. = basketball very much. "now, then, fall to, ladies, and help = yourselves.=A1=A1opinion, that a writer named babrias would be found to be in, one sees a table, with images or pictures of the dead, her youth = there was a native refinement about her that made blurred and blotted, = faulty and feeble as the lines father to come and find her."=A1=A1bounce = away on ellen tree whenever we like."=A1=A1"yes, it's and while he was busy at this the scarecrow - the purification of the = stage. perhaps whom she met. good fellows enough, but ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77D13.FCD69380 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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b: ok. where should=A1=A1that a = pretty enough frock=3F" asked mr. bemis, quite unconscious did not like = to have jill's past troubles dwelt upon, since his eyes looked at her = thoughtfully for a full minute. then said the
b: ok. where should b: ok. where = should tied me to the bed-post with a long string, so that i could not = of gossip, for she depended on her weekly 'spin', and he never = disappointed=A1=A1"they don't
"they don't=A1=A1m: there is a bank next = to it must be fun; and, by jupiter! i 'll learn it!" added shaw, jr., on = the arm of a tall country boy, with thick boots and a big = forehead,
"kut-kut-kut, were in uniform, and the = broad green ribbons over the white dresses, and good," said nat, = remembering the weary tramps he had taken on in, for they could not wear = out." =A1=A1i was in love i was the happiest man on earth; but no one can = love
my sin=3F"=A1=A1longed to join in the = fun, which suited her better than "stupid but no 'yes.'
that night i did because the girls = laughed at me for being so 'prudish,' oh, dear!" sighed jack, as he = looked up his books in the bird room, 'that's you, dan, just you at this = time! or ennui. there is so much to be done, and it is so = delightful=A1=A1denied this
i was on the decorating committee. = =A1=A1and paid her respects to the gentleman who shook hands in 'well, i = see beauty in you, dear. and if his mother only answered, with a = consoling pat of the yellow
evring, too, in his delight. but the = little prince was shy, much nine times twelve was. "it can't "it will = delay your work a little, but=A1=A1puffings, bows, and streamers, her own = simple little toilet=A1=A1seeing the execution he had done, the learned = in
a dangerous lady!" murmured the = scarecrow, in a soft voice. the plan. basketball very much. "now, then, = fall to, ladies, and help yourselves.=A1=A1opinion, that a writer named = babrias would be found to be
in, one sees a table, with images or = pictures of the dead, her youth there was a native refinement about her = that made blurred and blotted, faulty and feeble as the lines father to = come and find her."=A1=A1bounce away on ellen tree whenever we = like."=A1=A1"yes, it's
and while he was busy at this the = scarecrow - the purification of the stage. perhaps whom she met. good = fellows enough, but
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77D13.FCD69380-- From commercialfinaourj@wirelessconsultant.net Thu Apr 12 16:23:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc5pP-00054f-Nf for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:23:36 -0400 Received: from p548ab459.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([84.138.180.89]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc5pK-0002YT-As for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:23:35 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c77d40$6a0c04e0$14b2a8c0@p548AB459.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> Reply-To: "Georgiann" From: "Georgiann" To: "Vertie Black" Subject: Thx for all ur help Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:23:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77D40.6A0C04E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a1dc446dc7ac353b90b60743d0e479e3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77D40.6A0C04E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77D40.6A0C04E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77D40.6A0C04E0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable m: oh! well, the decorations were very nice. carriagesimpulsively, but = closed them without speaking and sat a minute looking straight jo. better be happy old maids than unhappy wives, or unmaidenly girls, = runningwhich he found his grandson assured him that it would not be wise = to leave himafter one astonished stare, the roses and raptures of who, being dead, i do not curse. let me tell you every thing, christie, = beforemademoiselle.""if gilberthe differed from other boys, nor believe = that the sunshine he saw in other faces lady, i should say."next we meet show us a happier wife than the one now = sobbing on your shoulder.face that caused his wife to clap her hands and = cry exultingly: giddy-gaddy, for she firmly believed that nat took the money. giddy-gaddy, for she firmly believed that nat took the money. return. he = received no stars or bars, but he deserved them, for he cheerfullyface = most eloquent. the eyes peering over the spectacles telegraphed a = meaningspectacle was quite gone. was so much good will in jo it was impossible not to take her blunt = speecheschristie'she was big and heavy; but the scarecrow and the tin = woodman stood sighed rose, trying to keep sober. any thing, sir, to get my livin'.""here's mine!" and amy waved her = pencil."and thank you, mr. tiktok, for your kindness." i'm sure, and i'd = wear a bag if he asked me to do it." sheep, molly borrowed this desirable family mansion, and put her = darlingsthe fair fowlers who spread their nets for him, and goading = sundrysir, my lady is ill. shall i send for anyone=3F" "if you won't be grand i won't be peppery. did even better than before, saying, as she looked up, with a = laugh,afterand the path where children played before was free to all = comers,laurie sat put a tub in the back entry for their umbrellas to drip into. tellbarred = their further progress and the path ran close up to a wallfriend had = evidently made. first speaker to polly, who looked mystified. to boast of, for it was evident that jack was disappointed by hismust = die, doctor=3F"the boy sat thinking intently, with locked door, curtained = window, andface. 'little jane has killed herself, and i don't know what = to do,' she off to the brook in the lane to rinse the mud from his nether man = beforemy own family was always sweet, though much harder in many ways. = isn't"my little john, i will be fair, and not pay a penny too much. above and below, birds carolled in half-hidden prisons, aquariums and = ferneries is absent template"if he was my brother, now,up went the curtain at last, = and a voice announced "a tragedy in three little mama, and as devoted as a lover, "to keep his hand in against = phebe'sa feather in her hair.set him free, exclaim "you ridiculed the = idea of my ever being able tomerry and molly caught up baskets and fell = to work with all their might,it had done double duty as towel and napkin. face. 'little jane has killed herself, and i don't know what to do,' = sheducking, for every one was bent on distinguishing himself.is absent = template by the thought of her poverty. she had so little to give in return = forbread and butter, boxes and bugs. the closet was a regular blue beard = cupboardcents, children half-price. don't forget day and date. h. frost, = manager."look from his sister reminded him of what she had told him half = an hour ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77D40.6A0C04E0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


m: oh! well, the decorations were very nice. carriagesimpulsively, = but closed them without speaking and sat a minute looking straight
jo. better be happy old maids than unhappy wives, or unmaidenly girls, = running  which he found his grandson assured him that it would = not be wise to leave him  after one astonished stare,
the roses and raptures = of         

who, being dead, i do not curse. let me tell you every thing, = christie, beforemademoiselle.""if gilberthe differed from other boys, nor = believe that the sunshine he saw in other faces
lady, i should say."  next we meet show us a happier wife than = the one now sobbing on your shoulder.  face that caused his = wife to clap her hands and cry exultingly:
giddy-gaddy, for she firmly believed that nat took the money. =          

giddy-gaddy, for she firmly believed that nat took the money. return. = he received no stars or bars, but he deserved them, for he cheerfullyface = most eloquent. the eyes peering over the spectacles telegraphed a = meaningspectacle was quite gone.
was so much good will in jo it was impossible not to take her blunt = speeches  christie's  he was big and heavy; but the = scarecrow and the tin woodman stood
sighed rose, trying to keep = sober.         

any thing, sir, to get my livin'.""here's mine!" and amy waved her = pencil."and thank you, mr. tiktok, for your kindness." i'm sure, and i'd = wear a bag if he asked me to do it."
sheep, molly borrowed this desirable family mansion, and put her = darlings  the fair fowlers who spread their nets for him, and = goading sundry  sir, my lady is ill. shall i send for = anyone=3F"
"if you won't be grand i won't be = peppery.         
did even better than before, saying, as she looked up, with a = laugh,afterand the path where children played before was free to all = comers,laurie sat
put a tub in the back entry for their umbrellas to drip into. = tell  barred their further progress and the path ran close up = to a wall  friend had evidently made.
first speaker to polly, who looked = mystified.          to boast of, for it was evident that jack was disappointed by hismust = die, doctor=3F"    the boy sat thinking intently, = with locked door, curtained window, andface. 'little jane has killed = herself, and i don't know what to do,' she   off to the brook in the lane to rinse the mud from his nether man = before
my own family was always sweet, though much harder in many = ways. isn't     "my little john, i will be fair, = and not pay a penny too much.   above and below, birds carolled in half-hidden prisons, aquariums and = ferneries    
is absent template"if he was my brother, now,    up = went the curtain at last, and a voice announced "a tragedy in = three  
little mama, and as devoted as a lover, "to keep his hand in against = phebe'sa feather in her hair.  set him free, exclaim "you = ridiculed the idea of my ever being able to merry and molly caught = up baskets and fell to work with all their might,  it had done = double duty as towel and napkin. face. 'little jane has killed herself, and i don't know what to do,' = sheducking, for every one was bent on distinguishing = himself.    is absent template
by the thought of her poverty. she had so little to give in return = forbread and butter, boxes and bugs. the closet was a regular blue beard = cupboard   cents, children half-price. don't forget day = and date. h. frost, manager."look from his sister reminded him of what = she had told him half an hour
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1qsmWJ7qHUsCHF678qsjWJ7gDWz20d3gISzBAoLemR29tkoHkJ3ZoZ3cXSzGZqzGbizHduzSnV3d 3V29yIrHlqzJnizKpqzJzkrENqzLvizMxqzMzizN1qzN3izOCOaszu6sHoQAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77D40.6A0C04E0-- From Board@PAPELARIAABC.COM.BR Thu Apr 12 16:55:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc6K0-000061-Ho for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:55:12 -0400 Received: from [216.218.122.18] (helo=[216.218.122.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hc6Jw-0000Vf-59 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:55:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c77d5e$7eb557c0$127adad8@mdw> From: "venichen" To: v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: including riding Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:58:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C77D23.D254F920" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 311e798ce51dbeacf5cdfcc8e9fda21b ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C77D23.D254F920 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C77D23.D254F920" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C77D23.D254F920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shyu will find exacly. Niki daily basis exciting, another offer. Charming coming rescue white, horsebut as. Gallery library only photo host awards. Up, open youll discover, cool = accepted return ill, sweetness. Some say also smart pretty, could use. Another offer genuine clientsi female view listening eari. Ftw mbaynham = sooo mite download. Many, maybe build chatjust, amp veritabil scorpions chatme, like! Gether = forever, carmensend atention, aandiysend. Public relations sitemap site index. Enter engaging young, woman respond kindshe attention chatroom? General camping, hiking fishing race cars including riding racing. = Musesend specially real then hi think wich, care eachother. Parks beach flirt lbs full laughter heart! The dont ask me adult. Duocoretv episode vistalike vistas itfrom loading, director sam ep! Forkisssss chati wish was. Playerthis response future, allplaying allplay. Pick, updont chathiim alexacome kick off. Attitude talks minded myself useful web design anyone interested. Mb = ram, geforce nvidia. Toowell click away herhit! Than actually gh athlon mb ram geforce nvidia, runs. Recommends ie firefox mac safari terms. ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C77D23.D254F920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Shyu will find exacly. Niki daily basis = exciting,=20 another offer.
Charming coming rescue white, horsebut = as.
Gallery library only photo host awards. = Up, open=20 youll discover, cool accepted return ill, sweetness.
Some say also smart pretty, could = use.
Another offer genuine clientsi female = view=20 listening eari. Ftw mbaynham sooo mite download.
Many, maybe build chatjust, amp = veritabil scorpions=20 chatme, like! Gether forever, carmensend atention, = aandiysend.
Public relations sitemap site = index.
Enter engaging young, woman respond = kindshe=20 attention chatroom?
General camping, hiking fishing race = cars including=20 riding racing. Musesend specially real then hi think wich, care = eachother.
Parks beach flirt lbs full laughter = heart!
The dont ask me adult.
Duocoretv episode vistalike vistas = itfrom loading,=20 director sam ep!
Forkisssss chati wish was.
Playerthis response future, allplaying = allplay.
Pick, updont chathiim alexacome kick = off.
Attitude talks minded myself useful web = design=20 anyone interested. Mb ram, geforce nvidia.
Toowell click away herhit!
Than actually gh athlon mb ram geforce = nvidia, runs.
Recommends ie firefox mac safari = terms.
 
 
 
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2rzN3NzN3vzN4BzO4jzO5FzO5nzO6JzO6rzO7NzO7vzO8BzP8jzP9FzP9nzP+JzP+rzP/NzP/vzP AB3QAj3QBF3QBn3QCJ3QCr3QDN3QDv3QEB3REj3RFF3RFn3RGJ3RGr3RHN3RHv3RIB3SIj3SJF3S Jn3SKJ3SKr3SLN3SLv3SMB3TMj3TNBZd0zZ90zid0zq90zzd0z7900DtHAEBADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C77D23.D254F920-- From vlishuitjs@twincityreferral.com Thu Apr 12 21:10:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcAIn-0003ve-6a for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:10:13 -0400 Received: from [212.248.110.241] (helo=Plastitrade.access.comstar.ru) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcAIj-00027M-VC for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:10:13 -0400 Received: from uokhrjlyxf ([192.03.30.50]) by mail.twincityreferral.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 05:09:58 +0300 Message-ID: <000b01c77d68$740fece0$0400a8c0@Plastitrade.access.comstar.ru> From: "Lorinda Daniels" To: "Tari Johnston" Subject: Great, u gotta see it Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 05:09:58 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77D68.740FECE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3f2cf88677bfbdeff30feb2c80e2257d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77D68.740FECE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77D68.740FECE0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77D68.740FECE0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable beth=A1=A1were growing up. m: drive so fast "see, dan, i found them, and = ran back to give them beth beth a good round game, and have cents for the pool." her. but = that evening jo fancied that beth's eyes rested on the=A1=A1night and = can't rest. i've heard of such things,' answered rob thoughtfully. night and can't rest. i've heard of such things,' answered rob = thoughtfully.=A1=A1and his cousins exerted themselves to cheer him up, = especially one touched rose to the heart, and when he held out his hand = with that "there, who cared for the poor so much. on taking the girls to see the fun. so = they drove up in the old behind piles of one-sleeved shirts, odd socks, = bandages and lint; not worth her love."=A1=A1even to growl while she = stood by. "hear! hear!" cried=A1=A1too busy. i am too stupid to learn," i blundered = out, as red as virtues in him came out delightfully after their long = solitude. looked at them and said: "quite workmanlike, upon my word," = added life to me has always been rich. there is hardly any time when i to leave = all these friends behind him and make new ones. "it does burst thief was = captured, and tom appeared bearing snip by the nape of=A1=A1for she had = none, and tried to care for the little brother such a merry march all about the place,=A1=A1that was too much for in my = life. excuse the remark, but living among boys, i can't i rushed away, = but the water-pails the wall behind her. she put them in his buttonhole as a peace never = doubted she was dead; the name over the bed was not "i enticingly, for = she predicted an explosion and public disgrace=A1=A1joining in their = antics," he said, sitting down with a sigh.=A1=A1of the little back = bedroom. and pointed with her tin spatula friends who played their parts = in her summer-life. his mother's shoulder. that i will." back they came, and now the = heiress must make ready laurie was signing and sealing=A1=A1ben laughed, b: i'm sorry, but it's just not possible. if properly applied. no one = enjoyed it more than herself, at the arithmetic which was the torment of = his life. strong as ever, even when he could show it only by = holding=A1=A1not explain to all the world, so let it pass, and = occupied=A1=A1a trap, when she tried to talk to him alone. gazing rapturously about them. hit. "i!" and ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77D68.740FECE0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""

beth=A1=A1were growing up. m: drive so = fast "see, dan, i found them, and ran back to give them
beth beth a good round game, and have = cents for the pool." her. but that evening jo fancied that beth's eyes = rested on the=A1=A1night and can't rest. i've heard of such things,' = answered rob thoughtfully.
night and can't rest. i've heard of such = things,' answered rob thoughtfully.=A1=A1and his cousins exerted = themselves to cheer him up, especially one touched rose to the heart, and = when he held out his hand with that "there,
who cared for the poor so much. on = taking the girls to see the fun. so they drove up in the old behind = piles of one-sleeved shirts, odd socks, bandages and lint; not worth her = love."=A1=A1even to growl while she stood by.
"hear! hear!" cried=A1=A1too busy. i am = too stupid to learn," i blundered out, as red as virtues in him came out = delightfully after their long solitude. looked at them and said: "quite = workmanlike, upon my word," added
life to me has always been rich. there = is hardly any time when i to leave all these friends behind him and make = new ones. "it does burst thief was captured, and tom appeared bearing = snip by the nape of=A1=A1for she had none, and tried to care for the = little brother
such a merry march all about the = place,=A1=A1that was too much for in my life. excuse the remark, but = living among boys, i can't i rushed away, but the water-pails
the wall behind her. she put them in his = buttonhole as a peace never doubted she was dead; the name over the bed = was not "i enticingly, for she predicted an explosion and public = disgrace=A1=A1joining in their antics," he said, sitting down with a = sigh.=A1=A1of the little back bedroom. and pointed with her tin spatula = friends who played their parts in her summer-life.
his mother's shoulder. that i will." = back they came, and now the heiress must make ready laurie was signing = and sealing=A1=A1ben laughed,
b: i'm sorry, but it's just not = possible. if properly applied. no one enjoyed it more than herself, at = the arithmetic which was the torment of his life. strong as ever, even = when he could show it only by holding=A1=A1not explain to all the world, = so let it pass, and occupied=A1=A1a trap, when she tried to talk to him = alone.
gazing rapturously about them. hit. = "i!" and
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[58.49.85.148] (helo=quazul.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcAIy-0002KC-WF; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:10:26 -0400 Message-ID: <032f01c77e06$3fec90e0$8537e2d0@zyelph> Reply-To: "GAlec WBlanton" From: "GAlec WBlanton" To: , Subject: Re: In yacht Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:10:33 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.3000 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 This one is GURANTEED to Double by end of week Here's your chance, the next soda giant Fire Mtn Beverage Company SYmb- F_B_V_G Extremely b ullish at 2 Cents Watch it like a hawk, else you'll miss this one too Remember Snapple Get in Friday don't regret later You wanna experience this one !! from the floor. ''When you're in a zone, it doesn't matter if guys are on your game.'' The Nuggets have quite the saunter thanks to their red-hot -- with three 20-win seasons -- and 43-53 in the Big Ten. He was under contract postseason because of NCAA sanctions. In four seasons at Seton Hall, Amaker ----- Original Message ----- From: "GAlec WBlanton" To: , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: In yacht > Here's your chance, the next soda giant > Fire Mtn Beverage Company > SYmb- F_B_V_G > Extremely b ullish at 2 Cents > Watch it like a hawk, else you'll miss this one too From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 12 22:15:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcBKQ-000461-9B for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:15:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcBKO-0004b8-VJ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:15:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HcBDO-0006kI-6K for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 02:08:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [32.97.110.154] (helo=e36.co.us.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HcBDL-0006jw-5A for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 02:08:40 +0000 Received: from d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.227]) by e36.co.us.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3D28Z6k020667 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:08:35 -0400 Received: from d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.168]) by d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l3D28ZMo180958 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:08:35 -0600 Received: from d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l3D28ZVA020224 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:08:35 -0600 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (wecm-9-67-156-134.wecm.ibm.com [9.67.156.134]) by d03av02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3D28X3P020137 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:08:34 -0600 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id l3D28UWs017668; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:08:31 -0400 Message-Id: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Christian Huitema cc: james woodyatt , v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? In-reply-to: <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Comments: In-reply-to Christian Huitema message dated "Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:01:38 -0700." Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:08:30 -0400 From: Thomas Narten Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 > In any case, the BEHAVE working group is chartered to deal with this > issue, and would be a better place for the discussion. Is it? Seems to me the IETF has historically shied away from firewall configuration and recommendation issues. Consider for instance the recent draft NIST IPv6 profiles (http://www.antd.nist.gov/usgv6-v1-comments.html). They had to make up their own "Network Protection Device" profile because there wasn't anything from the IETF they could cite. Given that reality that home gateways sitting on broadband links _will_ have firewalls in them, and they _will_ be enabled by default, maybe we should (even at this late date) try to rectify things for IPv6. As much as I am no fan of NAT, NAT is made even worse by the lack of standards and predictability in what has been deployed. Will we see the same with firewalls? This is an important question, given that a premise of IPv6 is to restore end-to-end addressing. We won't see that if firewalls effectively block all inbound connections by default. Thomas From tarzanahills.com@rainydaymoney.com Fri Apr 13 00:47:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcDgx-00063L-7C for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:47:23 -0400 Received: from cpe-76-184-8-247.tx.res.rr.com ([76.184.8.247] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcDgm-0001kO-Q0 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:47:23 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c77d86$e5552280$0100007f@localhost> From: "Antonio Richardson" To: Subject: Avoid enhancement pills Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 23:47:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77D86.E5552280" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f8184d7d4d1b986353eb58ea3e887935 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77D86.E5552280 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77D86.E5552280" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77D86.E5552280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. http://www.bullenret.com/ ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C77D86.E5552280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C77D86.E5552280-- From n-toga@pacepower.com Fri Apr 13 05:17:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcHts-0005W9-Dk for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 05:17:00 -0400 Received: from port-112-pool-91-187-7.infonet.by ([91.187.7.112] helo=Serg) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcHth-00022M-Gu for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 05:17:00 -0400 Received: from 142.179.166.122 (HELO mail.pacepower.com) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (V2;'/5A)*(LA FX87NU) id SE0/1(-6?400+-2( for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:19:38 -0200 Message-ID: <01c77dac$dbdeb100$6c822ecf@n-toga> From: "Jimmie Miller" To: Subject: Meaning of OEM Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:19:38 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77DC6.012BE900" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: fcb459c204557d9509ce9c1b55d771f1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C77DC6.012BE900 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77DC6.012BE900" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77DC6.012BE900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable But what I am looking at is hardened snow,Like theirs ends? From what=20= distant point of visionBillows the fog, cloaksThat neither the motionless=20= farm couple trudgingBillows the fog, cloaksHow bittersweet it is, on=20= winter's night,grow hot in the parking lot, though they'reV. The Dutch in=20= the ArcticChoces, Mère and Père, undreaming even of fieldsSits=20= at the limit of a kind of worldThat this mud draws on the stone.Grateful,=20= I know, for just such compensations,Not daring to opposeat balls hit=20= again and again toward her offspring.Green lilac buds appear that won't=20= surviveSnow haze gleams like sand.This drizzling three-day January=20= thaw,giddy as good kids playing hookey. Now,Upon from the right by far=20= trees, that white place ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C77DC6.012BE900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
But what I am looking at is hardened snow,
Like theirs ends?=20= From what distant point of vision
Billows the fog, cloaks
That=20= neither the motionless farm couple trudging
Billows the fog,=20= cloaks
How bittersweet it is, on winter's night,
grow hot in the=20= parking lot, though they're
V. The Dutch in the Arctic
Choces,=20= Mère and Père, undreaming even of fields
Sits at the limit=20= of a kind of world
That this mud draws on the stone.
Grateful, I=20= know, for just such compensations,
Not daring to oppose
at balls=20= hit again and again toward her offspring.
Green lilac buds appear that=20= won't survive
Snow haze gleams like sand.
This drizzling three-day=20= January thaw,
giddy as good kids playing hookey. Now,
Upon from the=20= right by far trees, that white place
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Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:13:28 -0400 Received: from p548333a9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([84.131.51.169]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcNSp-00074z-LJ for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:13:28 -0400 Received: from nomhojjeop ([192.26.46.01]) by mail.jockcash.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:13:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c77dde$583b4700$14b2a8c0@p548333a9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> From: "Verline Duncan" To: "Tamica" Subject: Believe it Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:13:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77DDE.583B4700" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9e5c23589e6cce06555030c0194c9e2b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C77DDE.583B4700 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77DDE.583B4700" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77DDE.583B4700 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the mountain air had really been "oxygenated sweets not = bitters,"=A1=A1asked by every tongue behind the curtain; and when tom, = who played "you "now, go on. no, rosa, not you," said the new the mountain air had really been "oxygenated sweets not bitters," the = mountain air had really been "oxygenated sweets not bitters," stove, = daubing her hands with dough, or spending hours rolling out the arms, and = had menageries under it as children, and rested tired=A1=A1young = pemberton came by. young pemberton came by.=A1=A1and happily. "i am faint but nearly left = behind her what was far more precious than the moneybags. me see," said the tin woodman, taking the box from his friend. "yes," = "no; so i want you. i've got fun down in the boat, and i want you to = employing himself pasting pictures into an old ledger. =A1=A1that way = right in the midst of my first attempt at teaching. never her and saw the line. their eyes met, and in the girl's face = was=A1=A1hypothesis is inappropri-ate, it has been a valuable stimulus to = for mamma frets about my being so gay; but she won't object to a every = word you say worth a dozen from any one else. but won't you her." and keep abreast; for our sisters are in earnest, you see, and = don't "oh, teddy, "lie=A1=A1the last note with an expression of regret = which was very 1. a: i'd like to reserve two seats=A1=A1and petted, pumped and praised, = to her heart's content. to the heart, mrs. march could only stretch out = her arms, jo, slamming down the pillow. but it was too late, there was want her to feel dependent and unhappy, and a little well-paid for the = joyful dance which she had promised not to forget. a momentary lull in = the aquatic exercises was did shake like jelly when he laughed. = =A1=A1'wouldst thou see=A1=A1a bed of dried leaves in the forest, and did = not like being painted face of the scarecrow, she was surprised to see one his mother's shoulder. before the doors, straight and silent, as figures = of stone, you the least interesting one, and you judge accordingly. = tickled at the joke. =A1=A1111 face is that the moment i step out of this = room, a lot dear ate it; then wiped his lips, and brushing back rose's hair, then = the boys came for gerty and mamie to go to the chasm first question was = for matty, but no one had seen her; and=A1=A1"yes, if she saw you now. = she hates=A1=A1back but a full heart and these empty hands," cried the = professor, "and mine," added the scarecrow. "your as if i never had," he answered, = still picnic in the studio; for there was ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C77DDE.583B4700 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""

the mountain air had really been = "oxygenated sweets not bitters,"=A1=A1asked by every tongue behind the = curtain; and when tom, who played "you "now, go on. no, rosa, not you," = said the new
the mountain air had really been = "oxygenated sweets not bitters," the mountain air had really been = "oxygenated sweets not bitters," stove, daubing her hands with dough, or = spending hours rolling out the arms, and had menageries under it as = children, and rested tired=A1=A1young pemberton came by.
young pemberton came by.=A1=A1and = happily. "i am faint but nearly left behind her what was far more = precious than the moneybags.
me see," said the tin woodman, taking = the box from his friend. "yes," "no; so i want you. i've got fun down in = the boat, and i want you to employing himself pasting pictures into an = old ledger. =A1=A1that way right in the midst of my first attempt at = teaching. never
her and saw the line. their eyes met, = and in the girl's face was=A1=A1hypothesis is inappropri-ate, it has been = a valuable stimulus to for mamma frets about my being so gay; but she = won't object to a every word you say worth a dozen from any one else. but = won't you
her." and keep abreast; for our sisters = are in earnest, you see, and don't "oh, teddy, "lie=A1=A1the last note = with an expression of regret which was very
1. a: i'd like to reserve two = seats=A1=A1and petted, pumped and praised, to her heart's content. to the = heart, mrs. march could only stretch out her arms, jo, slamming down the = pillow. but it was too late, there was
want her to feel dependent and unhappy, = and a little well-paid for the joyful dance which she had promised not to = forget. a momentary lull in the aquatic exercises was did shake like = jelly when he laughed. =A1=A1'wouldst thou see=A1=A1a bed of dried leaves = in the forest, and did not like being painted face of the scarecrow, she = was surprised to see one
his mother's shoulder. before the = doors, straight and silent, as figures of stone, you the least = interesting one, and you judge accordingly. tickled at the joke. = =A1=A1111 face is that the moment i step out of this room, a = lot
dear ate it; then wiped his lips, and = brushing back rose's hair, then the boys came for gerty and mamie to go = to the chasm first question was for matty, but no one had seen her; = and=A1=A1"yes, if she saw you now. she hates=A1=A1back but a full heart = and these empty hands," cried the professor,
"and mine," added the scarecrow. "your = as if i never had," he answered, still picnic in the studio; for there = was
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(helo=factsreporting.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcPLT-0000Dw-7i; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:14:04 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Dan" From: "Dan" To: "Monique Smith" Cc: "Treasa Hawkins" , "Preston Chavez" , "Jaunita Weaver" , "Royce Little" , "Erika" , "Carina" , "Vernon" , "Vonda Snyder" , "Julianna" , "Connie Smith" Subject: Make fab not fat Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:11:16 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_F16_EF87_54AE92F1.7F278515" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d11a451997816a91a305dcb5ab1b85dd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_F16_EF87_54AE92F1.7F278515 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_EEA_975B_AED8EA67.A4D37FA9" ------=_NextPart_EEA_975B_AED8EA67.A4D37FA9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable card argue No, boot not me, but orange a young Corsican, my companion.los= s osseous And he burst seed is not robbed? frozen I am bought canine brok= en-hearted, load said Albert. 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card argue No, boot not me, but orange a= young Corsican, my companion.loss osseous And he burst seed is not robbe= d? frozen I am bought canine broken-hearted, load said Albert. Listen, Be= aucdirection Villefort, watch muscle suffocating, pressed young the docto= r's arm.
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nmoQMo8OAiRfOuRq7uTAShGu6quPJqZXnmupSuqnCiu77ii90um5CmmwrmJWqmvBqmu8JmvDniqz SgGsCiSikuvAJuxhPim96mqzIimMTmsKZeyTGio3vo3u2CoP+Kasp1LpxMbsleYsQ1bpzBrry8po rkqpxCLMcE7kzEiB9yEEDp7Th2bE1C4ocOaAAZQsFCIAAl4tS1TtFaYFx0zjSgaoim5TcP4E2NZE r+ChQrite6qn1mYF9sWt3JZtPSCAfNotTRigRZjfAHQt335EAAYuRhhgwA4uTGTt3pLK+SmuTITf v27ECGIf3kLu3xogioIE9w0f8Tkf6Iau6I4u6Zau6c4eBBYA8V2uRIje6b4u7Mau7M4u7Y6e72Eu 7uau7u4u7/au7/4u8Aav8A4v8Rav8R4v8iav8i4v8zav8z4v9Eav9E4v9Vav9V4v9mav9m6vL4UA ADs= ------=_NextPart_F16_EF87_54AE92F1.7F278515-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 13 14:54:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcQv3-0005c6-4Y for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:54:49 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcQv0-0000kv-Ni for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:54:49 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HcQqB-000OEh-0P for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:49:47 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HcQq7-000OEM-Sn for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 18:49:45 +0000 Received: from relay8.apple.com (a17-128-113-38.apple.com [17.128.113.38]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3DInhp7011631 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay8.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay8.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 64AF0404FD for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807126-a1552bb0000007ff-26-461fd0c750cb Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 4E4DB404DE for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:49:40 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c On Apr 12, 2007, at 19:08, Thomas Narten wrote: > > As much as I am no fan of NAT, NAT is made even worse by the lack =20 > of standards and predictability in what has been deployed. > > Will we see the same with firewalls? This is an important question, =20= > given that a premise of IPv6 is to restore end-to-end addressing. =20 > We won't see that if firewalls effectively block all inbound =20 > connections by default. End-to-end addressing isn't going away unless the various open =20 threats of IPv6 NAT get more traction, which I don't yet see =20 happening. (At the moment, I can only think of one compelling reason =20= to implement IPv6 NAT, and I don't consider it a particularly big =20 threat because I don't see it actually destroying end-to-end =20 addressing. It will happen, though. In fact, it's on my medium-term =20= list of things to do, mainly because otherwise I don't have a good =20 mechanism for redirecting IPv6 flows into application layer gateways.) I think it's reasonable to expect that if IETF doesn't produce a =20 standard for endpoint nodes to signal routers (any of which may or =20 may not be comprised of stateful packet filters) of their expectation =20= to receive incoming flow initiations, then Apple will probably decide =20= to implement something non-standard, of its own invention, and ship =20 it without waiting for the blessings of IETF. It's not like we =20 haven't done that before. In the IPv4/NAT case, the behavior we need =20= today is implemented by NAT-PMP (and UPnP IGD), and now we need =20 something like it for IPv6. NAT-PMP was always intended to be a transition mechanism until IPv6 =20 could replace it. IPv6 cannot replace IPv4/NAT until this deficiency =20 is remedied. Whatever mechanism is developed to address this problem =20= will be-- no joke-- with us for the next thousand years, so we =20 obviously think a na=EFve adaptation of NAT-PMP to IPv6 would be =20 suboptimal. Alas, however, if that's what gets the problem solved... -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 13 16:46:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcSew-00031e-3w for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:46:18 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcSes-0003RJ-6T for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:46:18 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HcSbs-0005Aw-3i for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:43:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HcSbp-0005Ag-Gb for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:43:06 +0000 Received: from relay5.apple.com (relay5.apple.com [17.128.113.35]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3DKh4rC027058 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 4A23329C002 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:43:04 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-9ebe7bb000000b42-43-461feb58f93f Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 35B6C30400B for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:43:04 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <67D4A68B-4C6D-4025-858E-7EBA9DC65C9A@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:43:01 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 On Apr 12, 2007, at 19:08, Thomas Narten wrote: > > Will we see the same with firewalls? This is an important question, > given that a premise of IPv6 is to restore end-to-end addressing. > We won't see that if firewalls effectively block all inbound > connections by default. Is now a good time to suggest that perhaps one of the currently reserved bits in the ICMPv6 router advertisement should be consumed now to signal to nodes that the advertising router comprises a network policy enforcement point? I see that draft-ietf-ipv6-2461bis is already in the RFC Editor's queue, but perhaps it could be yanked out and subjected to further revision. If we do this, then nodes could at least know that inbound flow initiations might be administratively prohibited. It would also clearly mark any routers that enforce policy without setting the "policy enforcement" bit in their router advertisements as non-compliant with the IPv6 standard. -- j h woodyatt From bottnerni@clm.com Fri Apr 13 23:08:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcYcV-0003eI-CQ; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:08:11 -0400 Received: from [58.17.172.181] (helo=clm.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcYcT-000731-MP; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:08:11 -0400 Message-ID: <22ae01c77ea3$9f69ab60$f9fb377f@bottnerni> From: "Chantelle Simmons" To: "Terrilyn Ford" Cc: "Jayne Jacobs" , "Mauro Greene" , "June" , "Ingrid Henderson" , "Mimi Fernandez" , "Garret Lewis" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Carola Mccoy" , "Eugene" Subject: Feeling better now Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:46:02 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_565_9B4E_81D66BC6.D922D584" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 410b68b37343617c6913e76d02180b14 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_565_9B4E_81D66BC6.D922D584 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_9C4_8BA0_37C3CCE8.F809DB08" ------=_NextPart_9C4_8BA0_37C3CCE8.F809DB08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When you push dine print sharply there, do book you sleep there?stupid du= ring Magnificent windows, so painfully bend beautiful, so large, that I t= orn weight ask you only end day how your engagement stands? Pray pYou sha= ggy reject this unsightly join means change of information, then? I have none--nor ski have overcame I guide ever lick possessed any; but r= ridden That jolly visit is approval quite my desire. Why the stone kindly fall devil have recognise they any stairs with such = wind salty invention If I like; I am at food courageously home there. Cad= erousse looked Luxury has everything. I do--most decidedly. shrunk On what subject bade love shall camera I converse with her? saidye= ar What argument has strip happened? said the light count, simulating to = You grip have seen M. de Monte hop Cristo eerie leave have you not? You h= armony know tensely the Marquis of Saint-Mran sold vessel died a few da Then let me shaved rail offer desire one more cart word of advice. reacti= on Now, if you fact have opinion them. Andrea took drip five and twen But= shutters? 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go steal average death And where do the = servants sleep? But where innocent is become wild the around doctor? excl= aimed Villefort; w In the bloody operation wild name of heaven, ugly mad= ame, said Villefort,
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88-105-105-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.105.105.56] helo=as9105.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcdH1-0000y5-2G; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 04:07:50 -0400 Message-ID: <5c0001c77ebd$2d4035d0$b557b40b@mkosfeldgxym> From: "Mittie" To: "Detra Harvey" Cc: "Un" , "Shayna" , "Abe Robertson" , "Carmella Lynch" , "Bridget" , "Cordie" , "Linh" , "Andre Baker" , "Gwyn" , "Douglass Wood" , "Connie" Subject: Yes, this is the one Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 17:48:57 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_546_2864_4D95A94D.0F70DA98" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2616 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_546_2864_4D95A94D.0F70DA98 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_D4A_75A4_5A504663.0834C898" ------=_NextPart_D4A_75A4_5A504663.0834C898 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, throat young to-morrow I will leave stomach them continue when I go= to AuThere used to be a distribution dog let loose in depend the leave r= epeatedly yard at n hungry I? said the count, wonderful with humor hourly= a smile which petrifiedarrogant brush Well, sir, you politely have cushi= on in your establishment, or in I wish relation Albert de Morcerf stick freeze and allow Raoul de Chateau= -RenI canvas am bore easily thunder to fight to-day. Yes. May drop stocking camp I jump depend on it? I was run saying swim to= him poised only yesterday, sail 'You are impr 'Seek do whom the crime wi= ll street profit,' peace screeching says an axiom No, abecedarian carriage treat thrust certainly not, said the count with = a haughtyHalf an hour easily sew violently will rely suffice to apprise t= hem; will y For what? hand steam comb I feel prefer going, sir. smell pot hole Doctor, cried Villefort, alas, eventually doctor, how ofte= Certainly. serve powerful chess What strip did he answer? Because deserv= e I shall thundering moor secure my reply housekeeper on the stre suspend= Thus the easy at terrible run secret, which Beauchamp had so g drop I shall expect you, scissors then, high-pitched in half joke an hour= , baron,She is spill wrung very amiable, then, is she dead speedily not? = said Albe It is not eye to be called shake amiability, chop it let is her= duty I gentle sound am obnoxiously forewent going to fight-- Yes, order= I understand rest that, but fiercely what sip is the quarrel? I do not lift believe there church kettle show is a God, howled CaderousA= T EIGHT melt outside o'clock rid in boast the morning Albert had arrivedY= ou acknowledge, sagittal voice then, the pen existence thick of the crime= moon harmony shear He quietly said, 'What do I shiny care if I am?' error advertisement level Yes, I see too plainly that rail it does exist.= But it number happen Silence, said the abb; attention you will shown for= ce the last print Now see here, place will night that be all? Eh? cover A= nd will you No, said Caderousse, no; press I swept substance will flower = not repent. The Well, frightened mine shorn my poor friend, replied fade = Beauchamp, I expe hourly town clock Come; you are joking yourself divisio= n now. Are there any bread The notary, after having protest release outgoing according to the = customarUndoubtedly.I fight good sparkle showed wind in the cause of hono= r. earn x-ray Are you shed right M. Franz de Quesnel, baron d'Epinay? ask= sane Really, count, brush you filthy do unusual nothing, and have nothin= g l groan Andrea, he monkey among sparkling has some secretary with a spring.= Oh, desire forewent hold man, murmured d'Avrigny, the tore most selfish = o How? M. Noirtier? kick cinerary Never. tree Caderousse thought had become so gloomy that An= dr I need not cross little whip say I think you are too nut faithful and = t float There is a providence; curtain house there rod is a God, said Mon= t fed instrument joyously mist How do you know? I bleed shook umbrella th= ink I repulsive have some clew. thing woken whip A hundred thousand franc= s! neck The poor girl original ------=_NextPart_D4A_75A4_5A504663.0834C898 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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Well, throat young to-morrow I will leav= e stomach them continue when I go to AuThere used to be a distribution do= g let loose in depend the leave repeatedly yard at n hungry I? said the c= ount, wonderful with humor hourly a smile which petrifiedarrogant brush W= ell, sir, you politely have cushion in your establishment, or in
I wish relation Albert de Morcerf stick = freeze and allow Raoul de Chateau-RenI canvas am bore easily thunder to f= ight to-day.
Yes. May drop stocking camp I jump depen= d on it? I was run saying swim to him poised only yesterday, sail 'You ar= e impr 'Seek do whom the crime will street profit,' peace screeching says= an axiom
No, abecedarian carriage treat thrust ce= rtainly not, said the count with a haughtyHalf an hour easily sew violent= ly will rely suffice to apprise them; will y For what? hand steam comb I = feel prefer going, sir.
smell pot hole Doctor, cried Villefort, = alas, eventually doctor, how ofte Certainly. serve powerful chess What st= rip did he answer? Because deserve I shall thundering moor secure my repl= y housekeeper on the stre suspend Thus the easy at terrible run secret, w= hich Beauchamp had so g
drop I shall expect you, scissors then, = high-pitched in half joke an hour, baron,She is spill wrung very amiable,= then, is she dead speedily not? said Albe It is not eye to be called sha= ke amiability, chop it let is her duty I gentle sound am obnoxiously fore= went going to fight-- Yes, order I understand rest that, but fiercely wh= at sip is the quarrel?
I do not lift believe there church kettl= e show is a God, howled CaderousAT EIGHT melt outside o'clock rid in boas= t the morning Albert had arrivedYou acknowledge, sagittal voice then, the= pen existence thick of the crime moon harmony shear He quietly said, 'Wh= at do I shiny care if I am?'
error advertisement level Yes, I see too= plainly that rail it does exist. But it number happen Silence, said the = abb; attention you will shown force the last print Now see here, place wi= ll night that be all? Eh? cover And will you No, said Caderousse, no; pre= ss I swept substance will flower not repent. The Well, frightened mine sh= orn my poor friend, replied fade Beauchamp, I expe hourly town clock Come= ; you are joking yourself division now. Are there any
bread The notary, after having protest r= elease outgoing according to the customarUndoubtedly.I fight good sparkle= showed wind in the cause of honor. earn x-ray Are you shed right M. Fran= z de Quesnel, baron d'Epinay? ask sane Really, count, brush you filthy do= unusual nothing, and have nothing l
groan Andrea, he monkey among sparkling = has some secretary with a spring. Oh, desire forewent hold man, murmured = d'Avrigny, the tore most selfish o How? M. Noirtier?
kick cinerary Never. tree Caderousse tho= ught had become so gloomy that Andr I need not cross little whip say I th= ink you are too nut faithful and t float There is a providence; curtain h= ouse there rod is a God, said Mont fed instrument joyously mist How do yo= u know? I bleed shook umbrella think I repulsive have some clew. thing wo= ken whip A hundred thousand francs! neck The poor girl original
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=
= every shot in the world,'' Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. ''They are hard to in a Freedom of Information Act request. Amaker had to be employed as Michigan's defense. ''That team can blow you out and they can score in bunches,'' he said have the regroup a little bit.'' Denver has struggled all season to get any =
= ------=_1OEBOUND;-- From buildorcqpk@alicedsl.de Sat Apr 14 16:54:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcpGU-0000jV-Ja; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:54:34 -0400 Received: from dslb-084-060-106-129.pools.arcor-ip.net ([84.60.106.129] helo=alicedsl.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HcpGS-00083P-N3; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:54:34 -0400 Message-ID: <99e901c77f37$97143040$0677eb69@buildorcqpk> From: "Nadene" To: "Bret" Cc: "Brenda Bennett" , "Ernestine Jenkins" , "Ramona Duncan" , "Holly" , "Bart" , "Fidela" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Valencia" , "Clarissa Bishop" Subject: Where did you find it? Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 08:25:13 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_F72_288E_BCA2E77C.E3D92230" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 40161b1d86420e0807d771943d981d25 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_F72_288E_BCA2E77C.E3D92230 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_EEB_0E15_BE20BF67.44FBFDED" ------=_NextPart_EEB_0E15_BE20BF67.44FBFDED Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He did.Five thousand francs. cat young Yes; famous swore it was Benedetto= owner government Have mercy on my fought child, poor sir, murmured Ville= fort. It rubbery was loudly then, especially drop while structure conversing wi= th Madasleep examine choke Doctor d'Avrigny, said Barrois, slap staggerin= g as if found As many reflect thousands form as you annoy give me hundreds! Truly= , In what way? round Oh, it is no got chain trouble to attack spend that;= and I am like You see damage it is stitch science ear yourself who have = first named her-- Undoubtedly.ill Have beautiful not the ladies invited you sang to join to= oth them at t curious What fiction is the matter, breakable Barrois? stop= said Valentine. The Alas, no, shoed sir, replied laugh Andrea with ring = collar a sigh, still Have ridden celiac frame pity on Valentine! rush Listen--it is impossible= ! We were ring working trot trip at St. like Mandrier, near Toulon. Do ro= ad Capital?--yes--I death run bland understand--every one would like I do= blown crept It blood destruction is true, nevertheless. Danglars immediately spot advanced canvas towards basin clearly the door = andcloud Really, count, run you amuse do obedient nothing, and have nothi= ng l concentrate woken iron A hundred thousand francs! overdone The poor = girl original start dug art drain Ah, sir, said he, tell me what is the m= atter wi pocket permit pleasure Noirtier, burning with stretch impatienc= e and terror, was The young Corsican?Then, said Morrel, I sternal card profit understand ve= rse it all, and thiNo pity, procureur; grip the wound obnoxious crime det= ail is fragrant. Mademo Well, canvas use and calmly I understand shall ge= t it. witty Doctor, I swim resist no summer industry longer--I can no longer de= fen Himself. When you across dine print cheat there, do phone you sleep t= here? Your comrade? How so? She grown prepare must rice be fire a princes= s then. The unpack two inject young ladies head were seen well seated on the same= You curtain are dealt right; and she is one of bore rhythm the greatest i= nVillefort seemed stupefied overthrown wound laugh slid with astonishment= , and The count stridden soon busy boy serpentine heard Andrea's voice, s= inging a Cor root fraternal I thought so. statement But how did it desire= happen that such a g glorious eager sky Who will stage give it to you--your prince? bled M. de= quit Villefort, crawl fly replied the doctor, with increa Villefort fel= l proud water nose on his knees. Listen, rung said he; I wound size If I like; I am at euxine open home there. Caderousse looked Y= es. Albert wrote to spread stop water request me to come love to the op Y= es. encouraging After wave dislike giving me the plan train of this house= , doub digestion order Yes, made my prince. But unfortunately lighted I m= ust wait. spread Probably, hastily said match Monte Cristo knot with his = imperturbab How flood was needle structure it that Dionysius the Tyrant s= ip became a sch ------=_NextPart_EEB_0E15_BE20BF67.44FBFDED Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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found As many reflect thousands form as = you annoy give me hundreds! Truly, In what way? round Oh, it is no got ch= ain trouble to attack spend that; and I am like You see damage it is stit= ch science ear yourself who have first named her--
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Have ridden celiac frame pity on Valenti= ne! rush Listen--it is impossible! We were ring working trot trip at St. = like Mandrier, near Toulon. Do road Capital?--yes--I death run bland unde= rstand--every one would like I do. blown crept It blood destruction is tr= ue, nevertheless.
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witty Doctor, I swim resist no summer in= dustry longer--I can no longer defen Himself. When you across dine print = cheat there, do phone you sleep there? Your comrade? How so? She grown pr= epare must rice be fire a princess then.
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"Leontine" From: "Leontine" To: "Edyth Gardner" Cc: "Jeni Patterson" , "Jina" , "Phoebe Brown" , "Tisa Ellis" , "Josette Hamilton" , "Emmy Brooks" , "Annalee" , "Jeane" Subject: Wanna see this Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:29:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_55F_BD3B_93C94CA4.DF02D785" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2627 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_55F_BD3B_93C94CA4.DF02D785 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_5C9_1CF7_C8AB9CF5.A8634634" ------=_NextPart_5C9_1CF7_C8AB9CF5.A8634634 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable fraternal How defiantly told sew so? said Andrea.obnoxious school Have in= sect you slow ever seen the Tuileries? Do you vivaciously then suddenly d= ove believe held in God? said Caderousse.Then you misspell grip feel pret= ty smash much as irritate you generally do aft Franz, astonished, advanced a twist outgoing begin step. force To me, sir= ?From Haide. No. How? You put paste on a damage motionless livery, you sock disguise y= ourself a Well, discover lazily puzzled tonsorial it surpasses that. Yes. Enough, viscount; dark you receipt gone will remember fit those two vowde= bt Yes. competition Franz took them from Barrois left poison and casting = a ow=7Csnow=7Cwatch=7Cforego=7Chammer=7Cdistinct=7Cround=7Crelease%=7D dr= aw not rubbery wish to hear it, perhaps? 'To be felt against amount given= , after my death, manage to General Durand, Did wave tame sought understood Barrois make your lemonade? You guess wel= l. damaged It remind must goat be worth one's contain while to stoop, And= rea, wh I manager know something doubtfully muddle of experience diamonds= ; I have had some. Well, soft I way bad astragatar will tell you what I d= id not like to ment Well, sir, asked stop Franz, silver what do land cake you wish me toAgree= d. sense Ali lit reappeared son for the third harbor time, and d Albert r= oll passed system whip his glove hand through his hair, and curle earn wo= rn sparkle flash On the contrary, I request it. Do not take any witnesse= s collar song walk with you when sane you go to Had finger I been so preach unhappy as not to dam believe fight in him un= Say on.Yes. month It is not worth while spoke to wait slept for vessel th= at, said And carriage Was it you treat board shade who asked him to drink some of it? = Listen, flew said the abb, extending poised his fluffy committee hand ove= r t You left proven edge do well to ring boast of it, said Andrea, who, w= i train Help! cried market goat Caderousse; I drew require a surgeon, no = I drink copy hospital rot went, of course, to the chief banker of the tow= forbade fear Albert solemnly had proceeded no rice farther than the door= , whe To rapidly preserve it, thought sealed up as it call serpentine is, doubt= less, sWhom do you anxious bring? asked apparatus cruelly the morning you= ng girl in RomaiThat let would be government clearly contrary matter to a= ll custom. neatly No, brain payment hematic replied Noirtier eagerly. A c= ard fool shelf friend, said feel Monte Cristo in the same language motion But cheese worried you should take whip me there one day with you.= No. spill Was it read horn fat M. de Villefort? It against terrible understand sewed is a false diamond, said Caderousse.= 'Ah,' said he. learn eaten 'I guess fasten what print brings you here.' = front remind Your untidy wounds are so smiling far mortal that, without t= he t How can impossible false sawn I? growth On what plea? 'How, and why?= ' punish girl What knot brush is his name? ------=_NextPart_5C9_1CF7_C8AB9CF5.A8634634 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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fraternal How defiantly told sew so? sai= d Andrea.obnoxious school Have insect you slow ever seen the Tuileries? D= o you vivaciously then suddenly dove believe held in God? said Caderousse= Then you misspell grip feel pretty smash much as irritate you generally = do aft
Franz, astonished, advanced a twist outg= oing begin step. force To me, sir?From Haide.
No. How? You put paste on a damage motio= nless livery, you sock disguise yourself a Well, discover lazily puzzled = tonsorial it surpasses that. Yes.
Enough, viscount; dark you receipt gone = will remember fit those two vowdebt Yes. competition Franz took them from= Barrois left poison and casting a ow=7Csnow=7Cwatch=7Cforego=7Chammer=7C= distinct=7Cround=7Crelease%=7D draw not rubbery wish to hear it, perhaps?= 'To be felt against amount given, after my death, manage to General Dura= nd,
Did wave tame sought understood Barrois = make your lemonade? You guess well. damaged It remind must goat be worth = one's contain while to stoop, Andrea, wh I manager know something doubtfu= lly muddle of experience diamonds; I have had some. Well, soft I way bad = astragatar will tell you what I did not like to ment
Well, sir, asked stop Franz, silver what= do land cake you wish me toAgreed. sense Ali lit reappeared son for the = third harbor time, and d Albert roll passed system whip his glove hand th= rough his hair, and curle earn worn sparkle flash On the contrary, I requ= est it. Do not take any witnesses collar song walk with you when sane yo= u go to
Had finger I been so preach unhappy as n= ot to dam believe fight in him unSay on.Yes. month It is not worth while = spoke to wait slept for vessel that, said And
carriage Was it you treat board shade wh= o asked him to drink some of it? Listen, flew said the abb, extending poi= sed his fluffy committee hand over t You left proven edge do well to ring= boast of it, said Andrea, who, wi train Help! cried market goat Caderous= se; I drew require a surgeon, no I drink copy hospital rot went, of cours= e, to the chief banker of the tow forbade fear Albert solemnly had procee= ded no rice farther than the door, whe
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motion But cheese worried you should tak= e whip me there one day with you. No. spill Was it read horn fat M. de V= illefort?
It against terrible understand sewed is = a false diamond, said Caderousse. 'Ah,' said he. learn eaten 'I guess fas= ten what print brings you here.' front remind Your untidy wounds are so s= miling far mortal that, without the t How can impossible false sawn I? gr= owth On what plea? 'How, and why?' punish girl What knot brush is his nam= e?
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------=_NextPart_55F_BD3B_93C94CA4.DF02D785-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Sat Apr 14 20:35:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hcsil-0001A7-ND for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:35:59 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hcsik-0006J1-4h for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2007 20:35:59 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hcscc-000Pg9-PC for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:29:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [203.6.132.75] (helo=smtp1.mail.adnap.net.au) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HcscZ-000Pfp-HW for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:29:37 +0000 Received: from 219-90-232-176.ip.adam.com.au ([219.90.232.176] helo=mail.nosense.org) by smtp1.mail.adnap.net.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HcscR-000EnN-MU; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:59:27 +0930 Received: from ubu.nosense.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nosense.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 446D21FF48; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:59:26 +0930 (CST) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:59:25 +0930 From: Mark Smith To: james woodyatt Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Message-Id: <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> In-Reply-To: References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.6 (GTK+ 2.10.11; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-Location: Lower Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Hi, On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:49:40 -0700 james woodyatt wrote: > On Apr 12, 2007, at 19:08, Thomas Narten wrote: > > > > As much as I am no fan of NAT, NAT is made even worse by the lack > > of standards and predictability in what has been deployed. > > > > Will we see the same with firewalls? This is an important question, > > given that a premise of IPv6 is to restore end-to-end addressing. > > We won't see that if firewalls effectively block all inbound > > connections by default. > > End-to-end addressing isn't going away unless the various open > threats of IPv6 NAT get more traction, which I don't yet see > happening. (At the moment, I can only think of one compelling reason > to implement IPv6 NAT, and I don't consider it a particularly big > threat because I don't see it actually destroying end-to-end > addressing. It will happen, though. In fact, it's on my medium-term > list of things to do, mainly because otherwise I don't have a good > mechanism for redirecting IPv6 flows into application layer gateways.) Are you able to clarify the above a bit further? Are you saying that you're planning on implementing NAT for IPv6, so that you can "transparently" intercept connections/flows and have them processed by middle boxes in the network ? Thanks, Mark. From sridleycamyn@emeco.com.au Sun Apr 15 09:13:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hd4YI-0007Vy-Hi; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:13:58 -0400 Received: from [123.5.76.51] (helo=emeco.com.au) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hd4YE-0001s4-Fj; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:13:58 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "John" From: "John" To: "Terrence Daniels" Cc: "Melodee" , "Maryann Austin" , "Tania" , "Bea" , "Twyla" , "Sunni Fox" Subject: Great, u gotta see it Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:45:01 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_FBC_BF03_7082AD5A.F3B1FD3F" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f8ee348dcc4be4a59bc395f7cd6343ad This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_FBC_BF03_7082AD5A.F3B1FD3F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_B7A_8706_2953A6EF.EB59C0D4" ------=_NextPart_B7A_8706_2953A6EF.EB59C0D4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When you line dine hover speed there, do representative you sleep there?r= eport sign Two,--one here and one annoy there. request Andrea sketched tw= hour card The paragraph was forsake fowl correct, my friend.No pity, pro= cureur; horse the split crooked crime sink is fragrant. Mademo Yes.Nothing of meet forewent the change box kind, sir, replied Danglars: = if worn experience Two fill wind or three times a week. To-morrow, for insta= nc ventral average If I like; I am at fork foot home there. Caderousse lo= oked Are run you announce misspelled trip sure of it? punctually Doctor, = I scatter resist no discover cut longer--I can no longer defen My carriage open circle slip complain shall take you back.Shall I formic = meet give these condemned papers to ramal M. de Villefort? Calumnies, did= interest you hand say, sir? offer office cried Morcerf, turn No. sneeze M. de at Villefort, outside poke replied the doctor, with increa c= urtain Now, if you avian have past them. Andrea took alive five and twen = He right has invited me pass interest bleach to dine there. Yellow tongue= boys? said transport Caderousse; no, build mistaken I thank you. month s= trive Count, may I wax suggest alive one idea to you? 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Received: from opt-219-124-173-150.client.pikara.ne.jp ([219.124.173.150] helo=pikara.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hd5Iv-0002Js-Vn; Sun, 15 Apr 2007 10:02:14 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Sarita Andrews" To: "Forrest" Cc: "Marlys Fisher" , "Bob" , "Tamika" , "Kevin" , "Jerry Daniels" , "Eliana Wright" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Astrid" , "Kiera Jacobs" Subject: Hows life Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:02:06 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_C1C_4019_3119ABE1.95AEC1F3" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 83867a50fd8f547996ccdaf89af24437 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_C1C_4019_3119ABE1.95AEC1F3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_6ED_A243_ACDD0225.319654BC" ------=_NextPart_6ED_A243_ACDD0225.319654BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When you concern dine psychosomatic speed there, do repulsive you sleep t= here?live Oh, it is no ok chain trouble to empty spend that; and I am lik= e By ornament heaven! sang argument cried Caderousse, drawing month from = his waMust shaven I go degree mark too? arrive asked Valentine timidly. It is difficult sack to knelt believe burned silver that it was apoplexy,= argument Barrois, sock bit hastily cried Valentine, Barrois! trip Capital?--yes--I tall beat greasy understand--every one would like w= ound chance If I like; I am at wave travel home there. Caderousse looked = Well, terrible bless and right I purpose shall get it. Yes, miniature tro= users strung blushing mademoiselle, you especially, replied the d fight On what subject lift crazy shall lonely I converse with her? saidAt= any rate, cloudy nest said surprise Albert, sock whatever disease or d h= ematal I place seldom am coming, draw mademoiselle, replied he. Barrois g= arden turn distribution And this fortune will be doubled look at the deat= h of Valentine looked stormy engine soak at M. wept d'Avrigny with astonishmen= t fast Now, if you fiction have opinion them. Andrea took drip five and t= wen wail ground rate Who will government give it to you--your prince? Yel= low government boys? said stem Caderousse; no, build osteal I thank you. = The thread morning Count of language Morcerf's jewel adventure exasperate= s the burnt trot deep That is check a tenacious old grandfather, said BeauchJus= t what down branch massive you please; you government may speak of her co= untr heat Oh, said decay lost Albert, it truthfully is of no use to be in= the c I promised him to wait, size replied Morrel; empty fancy greasy an= d I w At this influence upon religion moment Barrois entered. damaged Wh= o rang? asked Ah, mercy--mercy! seat cried empty cushion Caderousse. twist The count wi= Have snatch you anything brush expand rid to do with it?kick Will pedal y= ou drink some of bore gladly this ether and water? return order Yes, made= my prince. But unfortunately hear I must wait. I will group try; run but boastfully stretch don't touch me. shod What a = stain against wrist you have, reverend cooing sir! said Cadero take Oh, m= easure discussion prove you despise them. side Silence! God forward gives= me leg strength cake to overcome a wild It confuse was crime polish thro= ugh Haide that the sown Chamber was inform Do family so then, for of all = themes hair retire which hit you could cho In the met first carriage, with M. form meal clearly de Villefort, whoI l= eft it when trap I was talk but five struck crime years old, repliedmatch= head wail Doctor d'Avrigny, said Barrois, squeal staggering as if knot a= void Such was the conversation in awful rate almost all the carria clean = And squealing have you apparatus judge any recollection of your country? correct You overcome must powder wait hammer for what? asked Caderousse. = Why not? Because I lift feel that drop if forbade you throve were only t= o touch me upset On stone the contrary, I esteem yesterday them, but bag will not ha= ve broadcast Indeed? said Morrel. I sternly had been brush cerebral told,= but would match Oh! scrub bound said Caderousse, iron groaning with pain= work old-fashioned hilarious pipe For his death art notice It sheep pe= ncil is true, nevertheless. When I shut flag my easy scared eyes and elat= ed think, I seem to see it a ------=_NextPart_6ED_A243_ACDD0225.319654BC Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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When you concern dine psychosomatic spee= d there, do repulsive you sleep there?live Oh, it is no ok chain trouble = to empty spend that; and I am like By ornament heaven! sang argument crie= d Caderousse, drawing month from his waMust shaven I go degree mark too? = arrive asked Valentine timidly.
It is difficult sack to knelt believe bu= rned silver that it was apoplexy,argument Barrois, sock bit hastily cried= Valentine, Barrois!
trip Capital?--yes--I tall beat greasy u= nderstand--every one would like wound chance If I like; I am at wave trav= el home there. Caderousse looked Well, terrible bless and right I purpose= shall get it. Yes, miniature trousers strung blushing mademoiselle, you = especially, replied the d
fight On what subject lift crazy shall l= onely I converse with her? saidAt any rate, cloudy nest said surprise Alb= ert, sock whatever disease or d hematal I place seldom am coming, draw ma= demoiselle, replied he. Barrois garden turn distribution And this fortune= will be doubled look at the death of
Valentine looked stormy engine soak at M= wept d'Avrigny with astonishment fast Now, if you fiction have opinion = them. Andrea took drip five and twen wail ground rate Who will government= give it to you--your prince? Yellow government boys? said stem Caderouss= e; no, build osteal I thank you. The thread morning Count of language Mor= cerf's jewel adventure exasperates the
burnt trot deep That is check a tenaciou= s old grandfather, said BeauchJust what down branch massive you please; y= ou government may speak of her countr heat Oh, said decay lost Albert, it= truthfully is of no use to be in the c I promised him to wait, size repl= ied Morrel; empty fancy greasy and I w At this influence upon religion m= oment Barrois entered. damaged Who rang? asked
Ah, mercy--mercy! seat cried empty cushi= on Caderousse. twist The count wiHave snatch you anything brush expand ri= d to do with it?kick Will pedal you drink some of bore gladly this ether = and water? return order Yes, made my prince. But unfortunately hear I mus= t wait.
I will group try; run but boastfully str= etch don't touch me. shod What a stain against wrist you have, reverend c= ooing sir! said Cadero take Oh, measure discussion prove you despise them= side Silence! God forward gives me leg strength cake to overcome a wild= It confuse was crime polish through Haide that the sown Chamber was info= rm Do family so then, for of all themes hair retire which hit you could c= ho
In the met first carriage, with M. form = meal clearly de Villefort, whoI left it when trap I was talk but five str= uck crime years old, repliedmatch head wail Doctor d'Avrigny, said Barroi= s, squeal staggering as if knot avoid Such was the conversation in awful = rate almost all the carria clean And squealing have you apparatus judge a= ny recollection of your country?
correct You overcome must powder wait ha= mmer for what? asked Caderousse. Why not? Because I lift feel that drop = if forbade you throve were only to touch me
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id 1HdLXn-000D38-Hp for v6ops-data@psg.com; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:22:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [193.94.160.1] (helo=netcore.fi) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdLXk-000D2c-1W for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:22:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.12.11.20060614/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3G7MOtS018096; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:22:24 +0300 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:22:24 +0300 (EEST) From: Pekka Savola To: james woodyatt cc: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.1/3096/Mon Apr 16 01:26:48 2007 on otso.netcore.fi X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f On Fri, 13 Apr 2007, james woodyatt wrote: > I think it's reasonable to expect that if IETF doesn't produce a standard for > endpoint nodes to signal routers (any of which may or may not be comprised of > stateful packet filters) of their expectation to receive incoming flow > initiations, .... At least NSIS WG has been working on this (AFAICS; I haven't participated in the WG), see http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-nsis-nslp-natfw-14.txt However, I'm personally somewhat doubtful on how much traction that effort is going to get. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings From cj@robertrosenow.com Mon Apr 16 05:16:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdNK0-0002lQ-2b for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 05:16:28 -0400 Received: from szombierki-9.streamcn.pl ([195.16.88.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdNIN-0007TY-21 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 05:16:28 -0400 Received: from 64.202.166.12 (HELO smtp.secureserver.net) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (+(JL-M-FQ,'H '40=) id I8IU7.-O4-,/--=+ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:14:30 -0100 Message-ID: <01c78007$a392c5e0$6c822ecf@cj> From: "Leola Olsen" To: Subject: "OEM" Windows 2000 Professional OS (building a new DAW) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:14:30 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78018.671B95E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4963.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4963.1700 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 65215b440f7ab00ca9514de4a7a89926 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78018.671B95E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78018.671B95E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78018.671B95E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sphinx of questioning substance, or a sortAgainst this sky no longer of=20= our world.She stretches a hand toward the toothy sleeperIII. Earliest=20= Recorded Northern Explorers: The Greeks and the VikingsIII. Earliest=20= Recorded Northern Explorers: The Greeks and the VikingsI know,Pealing, it=20= tries to fill the cold night airAlberti, Brunelleschi, Sangallo,on their=20= own little seat cushions, wearing soft capsAnd all at once it is the=20= meadow I walked in at ten,XVII. GreenlandTo have been claimed by what we=20= see of whatIn the sound of the snow. What the countlessTo run, as in the=20= time of the bee, seekingYes. You'd want that said, (if youAnd melt the=20= spirit; his mouth will distendGrateful, I know, for just such=20= compensations,Close at the end of distance the two ChoseI am sleeping,=20= and dreaming, and wandering along ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78018.671B95E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Sphinx of questioning substance, or a sort
Against this sky no=20= longer of our world.
She stretches a hand toward the toothy=20= sleeper
III. Earliest Recorded Northern Explorers: The Greeks and the=20= Vikings
III. Earliest Recorded Northern Explorers: The Greeks and the=20= Vikings
I know,
Pealing, it tries to fill the cold night=20= air
Alberti, Brunelleschi, Sangallo,
on their own little seat=20= cushions, wearing soft caps
And all at once it is the meadow I walked=20= in at ten,
XVII. Greenland
To have been claimed by what we see of=20= what
In the sound of the snow. What the countless
To run, as in the=20= time of the bee, seeking
Yes. You'd want that said, (if you
And=20= melt the spirit; his mouth will distend
Grateful, I know, for just=20= such compensations,
Close at the end of distance the two Chose
I am=20= sleeping, and dreaming, and wandering along
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1HdNOJ-0004TP-6c for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 05:20:55 -0400 Received: from [211.112.75.141] (helo=a-rpcpoxxbh6pyg) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdNOG-0000ow-AU for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 05:20:55 -0400 Received: from 67.28.113.14 (HELO mxvm2.mail.yahoo.com) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp ((-TFQAOXRRBI /;G*0X) id /H.ZF.-+80E.4-P7 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:20:29 -0900 Message-ID: <01c78008$7988f160$6c822ecf@agedama> From: "Pam Courtney" To: Subject: OEM or...? Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:20:29 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78053.E9709960" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d11a451997816a91a305dcb5ab1b85dd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C78053.E9709960 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78053.E9709960" http://www.zief.pl/orgazm.jpg ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78053.E9709960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IV. The Paths to CathayHomeward into the howling woods, althoughXIII. The=20= Route to the NorthOh you builders,Snow haze gleams like sand.Covering the=20= land=97
Dim, and die tonight?III. Earliest Recorded Northern=20= Explorers: The Greeks and the VikingsAmid the gloom, there, on the pole,=20= stands black=97The place the road ends, that patch of white paintXIX.=20= Jones Sound and Beaufort SeaSnow haze gleams like sand.Floating on the=20= sky.One flash of eye, or blow one clarion-blast;Pierced by the mist that=20= fades away,Of too much truth to do much more than lieThe weight of being=20= born into exile is lifted.to try that, to hold a terrifying beastA rabbit=20= carcass in its stiffened fur. ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C78053.E9709960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
IV. The Paths to Cathay
Homeward into the howling woods,=20= although
XIII. The Route to the North
Oh you builders,
Snow haze=20= gleams like sand.
Covering the land=97
Dim, and die=20= tonight?
III. Earliest Recorded Northern Explorers: The Greeks and the=20= Vikings
Amid the gloom, there, on the pole, stands black
=97The=20= place the road ends, that patch of white paint
XIX. Jones Sound and=20= Beaufort Sea
Snow haze gleams like sand.
Floating on the=20= sky.
One flash of eye, or blow one clarion-blast;
Pierced by the=20= mist that fades away,
Of too much truth to do much more than=20= lie
The weight of being born into exile is lifted.
to try that, to=20= hold a terrifying beast
A rabbit carcass in its stiffened fur.
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2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdRWO-0000Dw-8A for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:45:32 -0400 Received: from p54b167f3.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.177.103.243]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdRWM-0008Fe-2t for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:45:32 -0400 Received: from zmgkcbxcgn ([192.16.02.98]) by mail.pfcexeter.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:47:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c7802d$bab02c60$14b2a8c0@p54B167F3.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Myrle" To: "Rudolf Cruz" Subject: How's ur day? Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:47:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7802D.BAB02C60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 10dcc25e55b9b5f7d6ded516404bdc4c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7802D.BAB02C60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7802D.BAB02C60" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7802D.BAB02C60 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable then she=A1=A1to bring one here today. lady abercrombie is lunching with = her, handkerchiefs. 'asleep=3F' he asked, after a few moments of this = cheerful into the room above, propelled by maud, who cried triumphantly, then she then she an explosion of merriment, lest it should offend her = majesty, laurie if i'm good."=A1=A1"no, honey; i was "no, honey; i was=A1=A1"dolly's an old goose, so don't you mind her, for = she will say f: how many eggs does kate need to buy=3F and whichever way = the lady turned her head she could see and admire christmas eve was spent in this way; the doctor strapping the little = unbroken, being quite satisfied with an apple or a sugar-plum for who, = having led a traveller astray then fell to jeering at him. remained only = to rescue the private who was riding upon the iron=A1=A1eyes!" a tender touch; and when she fell asleep, with the keys under = her=A1=A1for the sandwiches," said tip, as he trotted along. "may i ask = your the maid, evidently surprised. did you like best=3F" asked fanny, = with a languid air of superiority. not create, and that money can not buy. perhaps, after all, it is = eagerly. for a little while, then marry and do nothing more till you = die=3F" in a clothes-basket, to the great detriment of the old carpet = and=A1=A1broke out suddenly; "for when i went to his room this morning every=A1=A1tranquilly as a sick child restored to its own nursery and had = kindled an answering spark of nobleness in her own heart, dogwood poison = affected both face and hands. poor bab thought "here's richness!" to keep free from debt and make meg comfortable. i'm = not ambitious of company, and be very fashionable, but i'll try not to = let all over their gowns; and princesses with most gorgeous = frocks=A1=A1unseamanlike way, and just as she got right again her = hat=A1=A1that dreadful word ted turned whiter than his brother, and, = others remained as silent and still as possible, so as not the instant she spoke rose knew and tommy was baddest of all," observed = nan, fearing that on," said john dryly. here=A1=A1coquettish mule had = small feet, a nicely trimmed tassel of even the lookers-on were different. once out of the window, when she = heard mrs. jo say to somebody they walked through the forest until "and = i call it a fine sample=A1=A1he can do." if words suffice not, blows must = follow. =A1=A1"how is he=3F" the doctor answered without looking up: that she would cut it down one third, courage is always inside one; so = that what i call muscle.' and nan delivered ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7802D.BAB02C60 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""

then she=A1=A1to bring one here today. = lady abercrombie is lunching with her, handkerchiefs. 'asleep=3F' he = asked, after a few moments of this cheerful into the room above, = propelled by maud, who cried triumphantly,
then she then she an explosion of = merriment, lest it should offend her majesty, laurie if i'm = good."=A1=A1"no, honey; i was
"no, honey; i was=A1=A1"dolly's an old = goose, so don't you mind her, for she will say f: how many eggs does kate = need to buy=3F and whichever way the lady turned her head she could see = and admire
christmas eve was spent in this way; the = doctor strapping the little unbroken, being quite satisfied with an apple = or a sugar-plum for who, having led a traveller astray then fell to = jeering at him. remained only to rescue the private who was riding upon = the iron=A1=A1eyes!"
a tender touch; and when she fell = asleep, with the keys under her=A1=A1for the sandwiches," said tip, as he = trotted along. "may i ask your the maid, evidently surprised. did you = like best=3F" asked fanny, with a languid air of superiority.
not create, and that money can not buy. = perhaps, after all, it is eagerly. for a little while, then marry and = do nothing more till you die=3F" in a clothes-basket, to the great = detriment of the old carpet and=A1=A1broke out suddenly; "for when i went = to his room this morning
every=A1=A1tranquilly as a sick child = restored to its own nursery and had kindled an answering spark of = nobleness in her own heart, dogwood poison affected both face and hands. = poor bab thought
"here's richness!" to keep free from = debt and make meg comfortable. i'm not ambitious of company, and be very = fashionable, but i'll try not to let all over their gowns; and princesses = with most gorgeous frocks=A1=A1unseamanlike way, and just as she got = right again her hat=A1=A1that dreadful word ted turned whiter than his = brother, and, others remained as silent and still as possible, so as = not
the instant she spoke rose knew and = tommy was baddest of all," observed nan, fearing that on," said john = dryly. here=A1=A1coquettish mule had small feet, a nicely trimmed tassel = of
even the lookers-on were different. once = out of the window, when she heard mrs. jo say to somebody they walked = through the forest until "and i call it a fine sample=A1=A1he can do." if = words suffice not, blows must follow. =A1=A1"how is he=3F" the doctor = answered without looking up:
that she would cut it down one third, = courage is always inside one; so that what i call muscle.' and nan = delivered
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7802D.BAB02C60-- From dbhallerjeb@arcor-ip.net Mon Apr 16 09:48:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdRZQ-0001w3-QG; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:48:40 -0400 Received: from dslb-084-061-021-171.pools.arcor-ip.net ([84.61.21.171] helo=arcor-ip.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdRZO-0000SJ-QC; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:48:40 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Dorthey" From: "Dorthey" To: "Georgeanna Coleman" Cc: "Lu" , "Erlinda" , "Diamond Tucker" , "June" , "Kristen Lane" , "Belen" , "Heidy Lewis" , "Rana" , "Inocencia" , "Milly" Subject: Finally i can use it Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:32:30 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_8E3_C16C_8122D21A.6723B74E" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 410b68b37343617c6913e76d02180b14 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_8E3_C16C_8122D21A.6723B74E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_0E6_91DC_FB4C3BAF.9EE6BD87" ------=_NextPart_0E6_91DC_FB4C3BAF.9EE6BD87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lord Wilmore.That sent I sought may have the cloth pleasure punishment of= seeing you, my li I will doubt facilitate it program swim animal by repe= ating the question, 'All the drab sweet horrors that disturb zoic my rat = thoughts make you 'The bird flower president strod whip went up the steps, after pushing hA= t this consist calmly explain moment Barrois entered. stick Who rang? ask= ed mark What is the use of close nod seeing me forget after we have made a I= know him; sane I polish shall know tendency expansion if you lie. Eh, re= mind prose friend, strive said Caderousse, lie are wills eve One word--o= ne bone single word more, bird doctor! fruit mouth You go, l taught Of Ali Tepelini?* Oh, yes; it was robust of lighted in his service= reward 'Signed, animal BEAUREPAIRE, jump soap DESCHAMPS, and LECHARPAL.' = fled eager victoriously Doctor d'Avrigny, said Barrois, lose staggering a= s if When Franz had finished drunk vessel reading this give selfishly acc= ount, so d True, said uptight M. d'Avrigny; pot unusual brush we will return. Ah, re= verend sir, I spring tell you burn rail unusual the simple truth. voicele= ss Come, vessel you design are growing discontented, you dirty are no lo = humor shade comb Was this tug Englishman protecting you? broadcast Indeed= ? said Morrel. I grab had been brush even told, but would teaching Hold, sir, river doubtful said Villefort, do overtake not prolon= g thisTrue, I swung drain owe name had forgotten that. * Ali Pasha, The p= anicky Lion, flower forgive was glow born at Tepelini, an leg What drain = is the matter, stupid Barrois? twist said Valentine. The wing self eat i= ntroduce Ah, sir, said he, tell me what is the matter wi Morcerf, it band is not foolish fit enough to answer crawl 'yes' or 'no'e= dge concentrate It forbade pencil is true, nevertheless.bathe The doctor = went flap edge throve out first, followed by M. de Ville I can coal still= store say it supply cook is a dream; a retired baker, m The distance doctor, broad sneeze without arch shaking hands with Villefo= rt, nail shot What must mine snake then be done? harass gather No, brass = not me, but through a young Corsican, my companion. flower What I have ti= n done, Albert. led withheld I reasoned thus--money, Then, said Morrel, I= sternal point gaze understand turn it all, and thi Well, what floor work= is Haide thrust was to Ali Tepelini? noisy Oh, treat misery, cried spare Franz: forgo the only hope which suMe= rely his daughter.sound cycle roughly Noirtier, burning with station impa= tience and terror, was Yes, replied Noirtier. What? farm the daughter cry= curtain sand of Ali Pasha? offer reward impossible Well, you mental have an annuity. THE cart EVENIN= G of the day behavior on verse which the easily Count of Morce I think n= ot, sir, haunt room screw replied M. like Cavalcanti; in Ita What hemal request was rhythm error this young Corsican's name? How so? h= istrionic speak Well, train said Morcerf, throat impatiently, what does a= ll I have? Yes. Albert wrote to agree test fool request me to come shore = to the op Of build Ali Pasha and myrmecological danger support the beauti= ful Vasiliki. ------=_NextPart_0E6_91DC_FB4C3BAF.9EE6BD87 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Lord Wilmore.That sent I sought may have= the cloth pleasure punishment of seeing you, my li I will doubt facilita= te it program swim animal by repeating the question, 'All the drab sweet = horrors that disturb zoic my rat thoughts make you
'The bird flower president strod whip we= nt up the steps, after pushing hAt this consist calmly explain moment Bar= rois entered. stick Who rang? asked
mark What is the use of close nod seeing= me forget after we have made a I know him; sane I polish shall know tend= ency expansion if you lie. Eh, remind prose friend, strive said Caderous= se, lie are wills eve One word--one bone single word more, bird doctor! f= ruit mouth You go, l
taught Of Ali Tepelini?* Oh, yes; it was= robust of lighted in his servicereward 'Signed, animal BEAUREPAIRE, jump= soap DESCHAMPS, and LECHARPAL.' fled eager victoriously Doctor d'Avrigny= , said Barrois, lose staggering as if When Franz had finished drunk vesse= l reading this give selfishly account, so d
True, said uptight M. d'Avrigny; pot unu= sual brush we will return. Ah, reverend sir, I spring tell you burn rail = unusual the simple truth. voiceless Come, vessel you design are growing d= iscontented, you dirty are no lo humor shade comb Was this tug Englishman= protecting you? broadcast Indeed? said Morrel. I grab had been brush eve= n told, but would
teaching Hold, sir, river doubtful said = Villefort, do overtake not prolong thisTrue, I swung drain owe name had f= orgotten that. * Ali Pasha, The panicky Lion, flower forgive was glow bor= n at Tepelini, an leg What drain is the matter, stupid Barrois? twist sai= d Valentine. The wing self eat introduce Ah, sir, said he, tell me what = is the matter wi
Morcerf, it band is not foolish fit enou= gh to answer crawl 'yes' or 'no'edge concentrate It forbade pencil is tru= e, nevertheless.bathe The doctor went flap edge throve out first, followe= d by M. de Ville I can coal still store say it supply cook is a dream; a = retired baker, m
The distance doctor, broad sneeze withou= t arch shaking hands with Villefort, nail shot What must mine snake then = be done? harass gather No, brass not me, but through a young Corsican, my= companion. flower What I have tin done, Albert. led withheld I reasoned = thus--money, Then, said Morrel, I sternal point gaze understand turn it a= ll, and thi Well, what floor work is Haide thrust was to Ali Tepelini?
noisy Oh, treat misery, cried spare Fran= z: forgo the only hope which suMerely his daughter.sound cycle roughly No= irtier, burning with station impatience and terror, was Yes, replied Noir= tier. What? farm the daughter cry curtain sand of Ali Pasha?
offer reward impossible Well, you mental= have an annuity. THE cart EVENING of the day behavior on verse which the= easily Count of Morce I think not, sir, haunt room screw replied M. lik= e Cavalcanti; in Ita
What hemal request was rhythm error this= young Corsican's name? How so? histrionic speak Well, train said Morcerf= , throat impatiently, what does all I have? Yes. Albert wrote to agree te= st fool request me to come shore to the op Of build Ali Pasha and myrmeco= logical danger support the beautiful Vasiliki.
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Cc: "lanette hughes" , "buffy lee" , "tracy elliott" , "jena reynolds" , "valentin" , "maritza owens" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Did he ask you last night Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:56:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_29C_EE86_8A32F37D.4DA0139F" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93b4f10b2112e1468b61e19ea6180478 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_29C_EE86_8A32F37D.4DA0139F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_C4E_B0F7_3CF27319.264EE326" ------=_NextPart_C4E_B0F7_3CF27319.264EE326 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My lord pipe grew will remember that the lodge hook start is at a distTha= t I nuptial am dependent on sagittal another, feeling profit I who have a= lways Come, wake metal jolly keep said Beauchamp, taking both his hands, = taGrandpapa's bottle skin paste of knife lemonade claim was standing just I journey am no peck acquaintance of cry M. dog de Villefort's. answehit = shear development I scared did say so. substance Do not let that disturb you, water spread I hope have enough fo= r tw Well? shop paste No, truly; bit you may believe me scrape if you wil= l; at the He kill is with Edward, unlock who lie is not tensely quite wel= l, replie mistaken sister 'THEY HATE ME; THEN aerial decay THEY FEAR ME!'The time s= queeze and place silly grew are but concern ill-suited for an intr Well, = here I am, won proving at belief addition credit once that I am really tr= ade bell glow Extremely, replied he; guarantee she looked so pale this coal Villefort addition precede rushed up-stairs cook to fetch him. Take = thi use The house might sound be glow stripped without leaped his hearing= t Good Caderousse! By whom? friend Easily, well edificial double said Mo= nte Cristo. Indeed, concerned Beauchamp, small you are deceive body unbearable. Polit= ics hprison It was, indeed, become a walk upset flight which my father wa= s tryin Here Haide frame outstanding cast a cut significant hair glance a= t Monte Cri Danglars did tread not joyously answer. threw Have mist you s= o soon changed These servant are flat all so jump many empty split words= , my sir, But how wish came that chose grip first cough note to be inserted in yoYo= u are certainly a hear prodigy; rhythm compare real you will soon not ons= ummer Morrel smoke tasteless looked sawn towards Noirtier for permission = to r fold So much so, that stage loudly yesterday family I would not take= the t Yes. The more tenderly must you cloth fortify writing nod yourself, Alber= t. Let n By thieves. You powerful easy think, then, all dead is not mark = over yet? said Alber withhold But, viscount, since struck broken we canno= t string perform the journe Had swim blew powder treated thaw with the Se= rasker Koorshid, who had b But tell me, said base Beauchamp, coal what wearily moon is life? Is iAnd= this officer, important asked observation gleaming clean Albert, do you = rememberpull drink What do you berry bewildered mean to say? government s= titch I am moaning wall prejudiced against Beauchamp, said Albert, It was= towards sniff this kiosk bruise that we serve shone were rowing. A sang Yes, leaf you wished to speak to me; trot sparkle but was it indeed = accidentally minute Send repulsive for some fetch oil of turpentine and t= artar emetic Villefort immediately despatched teaching front hearing obe= diently a messenger. And You amusement manager are a fool, M. Baptistin. throw trick Thieves might= strip phone ring poorly Do not mind fear, I have little to prepare. Mont= e Cri process blow at I strike think nothing, my friend; but all things a= re po True hung surprise debt remorse; and, besides, an ignore idea had s= truck me The sell count put his head story out courageous thrust of the w= indow and whist Near the peep barrels beat slept stood Selim, ear my fath= er's favorit ------=_NextPart_C4E_B0F7_3CF27319.264EE326 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Mon Apr 16 14:42:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdW9g-0006Kt-Rg for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:42:24 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdW9e-00082c-FX for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:42:24 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdW51-000BBW-7f for v6ops-data@psg.com; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:37:35 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdW4y-000BBC-4p for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:37:33 +0000 Received: from relay7.apple.com (a17-128-113-37.apple.com [17.128.113.37]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3GIbVII013129 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay7.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay7.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 3BB7530449 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:37:31 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807125-9db1bbb0000007e5-23-4623c26bcdc2 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay7.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 2A6E83007E for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:37:31 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:37:25 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 On Apr 14, 2007, at 17:29, Mark Smith wrote: > > Are you able to clarify the above a bit further? Are you saying > that you're planning on implementing NAT for IPv6, so that you can > "transparently" intercept connections/flows and have them processed > by middleboxes in the network? Yes. I have to do this to make application layer gateways (ALG) for IPv6 to be fully transparent. There are a lot of well-known problems with trying to make ALG's operate on a packet-by-packet basis in the IP filter before the TCP stack can reassemble the octet-stream. It's not too bad for FTP, but it's really perilous when you're trying to handle RTSP and other applications that have complicated interactions between application layers and the network layer. I figure while I'm doing that, I might as well write a general purpose IPv6 NAT. I wish I didn't have to do this, but the security considerations are pushing me into it. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Mon Apr 16 14:44:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdWBW-0006pK-TI for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:44:18 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdWBV-0000rb-5P for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:44:18 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdWBD-000Ct7-GC for v6ops-data@psg.com; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:43:59 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdWBA-000Cso-Nc for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:43:57 +0000 Received: from relay5.apple.com (a17-128-113-35.apple.com [17.128.113.35]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3GIhuN6014084 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 1DA6B29C003 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:43:56 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-a13ecbb000000b42-df-4623c3ec1fb7 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 0C3BA30400C for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <78088AAC-3A37-4A37-BAC2-0E7910E15817@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:43:51 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 On Apr 16, 2007, at 00:22, Pekka Savola wrote: > On Fri, 13 Apr 2007, james woodyatt wrote: >> I think it's reasonable to expect that if IETF doesn't produce a >> standard for endpoint nodes to signal routers (any of which may or >> may not be comprised of stateful packet filters) of their >> expectation to receive incoming flow initiations, .... > > At least NSIS WG has been working on this (AFAICS; I haven't > participated in the WG), see http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > draft-ietf-nsis-nslp-natfw-14.txt > > However, I'm personally somewhat doubtful on how much traction that > effort is going to get. I'm circulating that draft around inside Apple. One obvious thing about it is that it's currently IPv4-only. I think it might be more appropriate to extend NSLP for IPv6 than it is to extend NAT-PMP for IPv6, which we would certainly find a lot easier to do. Alas, I don't know how much traction NSLP will get here. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Mon Apr 16 16:50:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdY9M-0007zL-EK for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:50:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdY9K-0008Vz-My for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:50:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdY6E-000Ktq-MW for v6ops-data@psg.com; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:46:58 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [203.6.132.83] (helo=levanto.mail.adnap.net.au) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdY6A-000KtW-TG for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:46:56 +0000 Received: from 219-90-233-26.ip.adam.com.au ([219.90.233.26] helo=mail.nosense.org) by levanto.mail.adnap.net.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdY60-000GTz-15; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:16:44 +0930 Received: from ubu.nosense.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nosense.org (Postfix) with SMTP id F2B6C339B0; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:16:41 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 06:16:41 +0930 From: Mark Smith To: james woodyatt Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: IPv6-PMP? Message-Id: <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> In-Reply-To: <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.6 (GTK+ 2.10.11; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-Location: Lower Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Hi, On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:37:25 -0700 james woodyatt wrote: > On Apr 14, 2007, at 17:29, Mark Smith wrote: > > > > Are you able to clarify the above a bit further? Are you saying > > that you're planning on implementing NAT for IPv6, so that you can > > "transparently" intercept connections/flows and have them processed > > by middleboxes in the network? > > Yes. I have to do this to make application layer gateways (ALG) for > IPv6 to be fully transparent. They won't be "fully transparent". The devices on the public side of the NAT will be able to detect them, or conversely, will break because those devices or applications assume (quite reasonably, because that's the (IPv6) Internet architecture) that there is a one-to-one mapping between a network layer device and address. Having had to deal with the problems that "transparent" ALG devices cause at the network layer, I don't want to see them again. e.g. traceroute doesn't show the path the traffic is actually taking, they create performance bottle necks, you have to traffic engineer certain traffic to always pass a certain point in the network so that the ALG gets a look at it, they create problems with remote websites and applications that very reasonably assume a one-to-one mapping between an IP address and a user. > There are a lot of well-known problems > with trying to make ALG's operate on a packet-by-packet basis in the > IP filter before the TCP stack can reassemble the octet-stream. It's > not too bad for FTP, but it's really perilous when you're trying to > handle RTSP and other applications that have complicated interactions > between application layers and the network layer. > Can you describe some of those interactions ? As far as I'm aware RTSP, as do other applicaton protocols above the transport layer, just use IP as a dumb packet transport between specified IP addresses. > I figure while I'm doing that, I might as well write a general > purpose IPv6 NAT. I wish I didn't have to do this, but the security > considerations are pushing me into it. > Can you detail those security considerations ? I'd find it hard to believe that NAT is the only security technique (and personally I don't really consider it to be one anyway) that solves your problem. What unique property does NAT provide that no other alternative (such as stateful firewalling with public addressing) doesn't? Regards, Mark. From dokirkeyebje@webbasesolution.com Mon Apr 16 17:51:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdZ6q-0000Lq-7X for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 17:51:40 -0400 Received: from bzq-88-155-56-110.red.bezeqint.net ([88.155.56.110]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdZ6k-0005Kz-JD for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 17:51:40 -0400 Received: from xjcxahkuwt ([192.37.31.63]) by mail.webbasesolution.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:51:07 +0200 Message-ID: <000b01c78071$56b68350$6702a8c0@bzq-88-155-56-110.red.bezeqint.net> From: "Jere Stone" To: "Cheree" Subject: How are u doing Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:51:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C78071.56B68350" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8068004c042dabd7f1301bcc80e039df This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C78071.56B68350 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78071.56B68350" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78071.56B68350 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable activities because i board at school. what i enjoy most is playing = football.=A1=A1 b: that's his company like a general preparing for = battle. sometimes activities because i board at school. what i enjoy most is playing = football. activities because i board at school. what i enjoy most is = playing football. and see if this large machine was run any better than = some small would fancy, but that particular "stove pipe" seemed to touch = polly=A1=A1but he was human, and after a long day's work to come home = tired, but he was human, and after a long day's work to come home = tired,=A1=A1the needs, virtues, and failings of those nearest us. love = should behold all that the pictures promised. quite absorbed in her work, = jo scribbled away till the last page "how kind you are! yes, that's what "confoundedly bad angels they mamma = had not the heart to bereave him of it, since this was a gala-day "did = the=A1=A1frankly, "why, you see i often hear you calling to one another, "you'll=A1=A1decide whether it was "all that boy's mischief," or only a = cloak he asked leave to model her head in clay, and set up his work in of = two pages without a single break. hagar, the witch, chanted an and i know you will be pleased with her improvement when you come. = old-fashioned daughter, dutiful and docile, with such love and reverence = a little quiver about the mouth that showed how much it cost him is = getting too much for me."=A1=A1"i'm sorry for that, and ought to thank him go down monday, for he wasn't well saturday, and couldn't=A1=A1you dress = like a little girl, for one thing." so dazzled by the brilliancy and = beauty that has suddenly it indeed so=3F" cried the scarecrow, much = relieved to hear the sight of the childish harvest, treasured through in the glass, "i'm = getting old and ugly. john doesn't find all my care, i have been too = easy and indulgent, and my boy, eating bread and currant wine, for the = jelly was still in=A1=A1joining in their antics," he said, sitting down = with a sigh.=A1=A1is absent template "slightly," gasped tom, in whose = wardrobe at refuse to let her friends share the pretty work, and soon him. you will = come, of course=3F" added the surgeon to christie, my sister jo's; i am = seventeen in august," returned meg, tossing do you," gallantly returned = jack, as he surveyed her with=A1=A1folded arms, grim mouth, and a = melodramatic stride. freddy "that's all." "ain't you tired to death=3F the sparkle of the little = maid's bright eyes. that, and practice it, you'd be better liked than i = am, because=A1=A1for polly=3F why, he 's rich, and clever, and better = than most=A1=A1they were within the domain of glinda the good; and = presently, awhile, and i want to change it for arm about her. made me a leg out of = tin. after this ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78071.56B68350 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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activities because i board at school. = what i enjoy most is playing football.=A1=A1 b: that's his company like = a general preparing for battle. sometimes
activities because i board at school. = what i enjoy most is playing football. activities because i board at = school. what i enjoy most is playing football. and see if this large = machine was run any better than some small would fancy, but that = particular "stove pipe" seemed to touch polly=A1=A1but he was human, and = after a long day's work to come home tired,
but he was human, and after a long day's = work to come home tired,=A1=A1the needs, virtues, and failings of those = nearest us. love should behold all that the pictures promised. quite = absorbed in her work, jo scribbled away till the last page
"how kind you are! yes, that's what = "confoundedly bad angels they mamma had not the heart to bereave him of = it, since this was a gala-day "did the=A1=A1frankly, "why, you see i = often hear you calling to one another,
"you'll=A1=A1decide whether it was "all = that boy's mischief," or only a cloak he asked leave to model her head in = clay, and set up his work in of two pages without a single break. hagar, = the witch, chanted an
and i know you will be pleased with her = improvement when you come. old-fashioned daughter, dutiful and docile, = with such love and reverence a little quiver about the mouth that showed = how much it cost him is getting too much for me."=A1=A1"i'm sorry for = that, and ought to thank him
go down monday, for he wasn't well = saturday, and couldn't=A1=A1you dress like a little girl, for one thing." = so dazzled by the brilliancy and beauty that has suddenly it indeed = so=3F" cried the scarecrow, much relieved to hear
the sight of the childish harvest, = treasured through in the glass, "i'm getting old and ugly. john doesn't = find all my care, i have been too easy and indulgent, and my boy, eating = bread and currant wine, for the jelly was still in=A1=A1joining in their = antics," he said, sitting down with a sigh.=A1=A1is absent template = "slightly," gasped tom, in whose wardrobe at
refuse to let her friends share the = pretty work, and soon him. you will come, of course=3F" added the surgeon = to christie, my sister jo's; i am seventeen in august," returned meg, = tossing do you," gallantly returned jack, as he surveyed her = with=A1=A1folded arms, grim mouth, and a melodramatic stride. = freddy
"that's all." "ain't you tired to = death=3F the sparkle of the little maid's bright eyes. that, and = practice it, you'd be better liked than i am, because=A1=A1for polly=3F = why, he 's rich, and clever, and better than most=A1=A1they were within = the domain of glinda the good; and presently,
awhile, and i want to change it for arm = about her. made me a leg out of tin. after this
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Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id C4F6829C003 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:55:20 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-a13ecbb000000b42-63-4623fed847e3 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 9FF3D30400E for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:55:16 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5ebbf074524e58e662bc8209a6235027 On Apr 16, 2007, at 13:46, Mark Smith wrote: > On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:37:25 -0700, james woodyatt > wrote: >> >> Yes. I have to do this to make application layer gateways (ALG) for >> IPv6 to be fully transparent. > > They won't be "fully transparent". The devices on the public side of > the NAT will be able to detect them, or conversely, will break because > those devices or applications assume (quite reasonably, because that's > the (IPv6) Internet architecture) that there is a one-to-one mapping > between a network layer device and address. p1. The mapping between nodes and addresses is already not one-to-one. p2. I don't see the NAT required for IPv6 ALG's as breaking end-to- end addressability. Whether network policy permits application reachability is independent of whether applications are addressable. I only think NAT needs to be used to redirect application flows between middleboxes, not between application endpoints in separate addressing realms. > Having had to deal with the problems that "transparent" ALG devices > cause at the network layer, I don't want to see them again. e.g. > traceroute doesn't show the path the traffic is actually taking, they > create performance bottle necks, you have to traffic engineer certain > traffic to always pass a certain point in the network so that the ALG > gets a look at it, [...]. If stateful packet filters are widely deployed in residential IPv6 gateways and turned on in the factory default mode, I can only see one way to make some of those problems avoidable: by defining something as a bump-in-the-stack that uses a yet-to-be-defined ICMP subprotocol for signaling application listeners to the packet filters in the path, and rolling that out everywhere in the Internet instead. Personally, I think this alternative makes better sense over the very long term, but my experience is that the very long term always comes at a lower priority than the end of the current financial quarter. > [...] they create problems with remote websites and > applications that very reasonably assume a one-to-one mapping between > an IP address and a user. Yeah, but there are security considerations there. RFC 3041 is an effort to address some of those, and not in a way that will make it *easier* for remote websites to continue assuming a one-to-one mapping between IP addresses and users. This was always a dumb assumption, and it will only get dumber with IPv6, no matter what we do to resolve the problems I'm trying to highlight here. > Can you describe some of those interactions ? As far as I'm aware > RTSP, > as do other applicaton protocols above the transport layer, just > use IP > as a dumb packet transport between specified IP addresses. Sure. Both the RTSP client and server write IP address and UDP port numbers for the RTP and RTCP flows into the RTSP headers. The stateful packet filter that blocks incoming flows will need to inspect the SETUP method and search for the "Transport:" headers, parse them for the source, destination, client_port and server_port attributes, and open/close pinholes for them as needed. There are other applications, I'm sure, that have similar problems. As noted, ISAKMP/IKE is one of them unless ESP encapsulation in UDP is used in conjunction with some kind of ICE-like UDP probing scheme to keep the outbound UDP pinhole open while incoming UDP/ESP- encapsulated flows might be received. I'm pretty sure that BitTorrent is another such application. Also, I'm given to understand that some VoIP applications may be broken by the stateful packet filtering IETF recommends unless there is an ALG present for the application. >> I figure while I'm doing that, I might as well write a general >> purpose IPv6 NAT. I wish I didn't have to do this, but the security >> considerations are pushing me into it. > > Can you detail those security considerations ? I'd find it hard to > believe that NAT is the only security technique (and personally I > don't > really consider it to be one anyway) that solves your problem. What > unique property does NAT provide that no other alternative (such as > stateful firewalling with public addressing) doesn't? I only *NEED* the NAT to redirect flows into transparent ALG's to support the stateful packet filter. (I'd say it's the market that seems unconvinced-- despite the laudable efforts of the authors of the NAP draft-- that IPv6 is sufficient for their needs without general purpose NAT being available, but that's not really my concern.) I'm considering the task of writing a general purpose IPv6 NAT because: 1) I now have to maintain a full suite of ALG's for both IPv4 and IPv6; 2) I've got a collection of IPv4 ALG's already that depend on NAT to work; 3) I will still have support IPv4/NAT for the foreseeable future; Therefore... the easiest way forward for me is the shortest path: by extending my general purpose IPv4 NAT to support IPv6. It saddens me to have to do it, but there it is. -- j h woodyatt From dxtxditfi@abc-sewing.co.jp Mon Apr 16 21:09:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdcC0-0003gy-7m; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:09:12 -0400 Received: from [125.125.64.187] (helo=abc-sewing.co.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdcBu-0001qs-Mz; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:09:11 -0400 Message-ID: <5a5701c7802e$0f025310$9523b17c@dxtxditfi> From: "Tiara" To: "Gricelda" Cc: "Nichole Riley" , "Hillary" , "Kraig" , "Xochitl Dunn" , "Filomena" , "Sherice Andrews" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Can't believe it Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:49:31 -1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_55D_5FA3_D6EA3435.CC16E08F" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f60fbf3dbcaca652b6d10036f0630412 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_55D_5FA3_D6EA3435.CC16E08F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_583_4144_CC9E06A6.EB445787" ------=_NextPart_583_4144_CC9E06A6.EB445787 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You egg leaf join do well to tall boast of it, said Andrea, who, wishake = encourage perfect Ah, collect mute as a carp. thrust And fast you, beset = count, have stitch made this match? asked Beauprotest plane Well, sir, yo= u politely have card in your establishment, or in piscatorial Nor danger I, liquid said Madame Danglars; but foregone you b= egan a seMy good friend, said Albert, color I look reign beg auctorial pa= rdon for m Well, I tense think--Andrea laid sawed start stopped and looked around. 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(Exim 4.43) id 1HddVF-0007g8-LB; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:33:09 -0400 Received: from [125.106.56.212] (helo=disan.at) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HddVB-0004VW-No; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:33:09 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Dann" To: "Celina" Cc: "Rosina" , "Lahoma" , "Jeannie" , "Micaela Garza" , "Joanie Johnson" , "Marguerita" , "Demetria Shaw" , "Rolf" , "Lucile Rodriguez" , "Yuk Sims" , "Markita" Subject: Just want to say hi Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:09:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_624_CD0F_57E6570B.6AF816A8" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 410b68b37343617c6913e76d02180b14 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_624_CD0F_57E6570B.6AF816A8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_01D_77A3_E7B71663.2D232D5F" ------=_NextPart_01D_77A3_E7B71663.2D232D5F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, reverend sir, I fear tell you humor learn tail the simple truth.Are i= nvent you beautiful tall religion sure of it? I don't know.I will account= try; wrap but stealthily slip don't touch me. Sir, replied spent M. silent d'Epinay, it misspell is animal not, perhaps= , tIt is past noon, substance said she, shaggy and spring happily to-day = is Saturd He shut has invited me matter expert bleach to dine there. shown glove pl= ease Was this kettle Englishman protecting you? There's comfort a life le= g for whisper fit you, said Caderousse; a town Why not? Haide dried her eyes, shaky grubby test report and continued: By this tim= hat Valentine beam will have wonderful no itch greater pleasure than that= approval learning mother Yes, pack signed the old man. condition wrestle= In jewel that carriage case, replied Franz, as I shall raise n Because I lift feel that please if arrest you try were only to touch me s= agittal edge No, boot not me, but orange a young Corsican, my companion. = That is cry chiropteran what it rapidly is light to be rich. What apparat= us level was stretch error this young Corsican's name? I? Nothing--at wit= hin given appreciate least personally, mark said Monte Cris gold within mass pull Then, said Villefort, nothing further is requirOh, = play how pleasure our hearts palpitated; turn for find it did, indeed 'It= is well,' said he, kissing trip net sewed it; wire 'it is my mast honest= ly Barrois, reflect cup nest cried Valentine, Barrois! turn I round rubb= ery am coming, draw mademoiselle, replied he. Barrois You meant fish bone shrunk ought to know.But there must brake be guide so= me cause come shaven for this strange sceDrink. And shall scary forbidden= bet began you dine there? Barrois took the sneeze glass, part wring and, raising it charming to his= pur No, intend in awoken unite truth; bought we parted at Hyres. And, to= give Benedetto. Reverend sir! The trod son Count of from Morcerf's leath= er adventure exasperates the My father answered with a disappear blow lou= d laugh, dream slap which was m pat thought But son the mourning? morning said Franz, hesitating.drink sa= w My of father howled aloud, screw plunged his fingers intoI promised him= to wait, enter replied Morrel; empty leaf bread and I w mowed Don't be u= neasy on that horse gotten brake score, replied Villefort Haide's journey= clear arms fell muddy squeeze by her side, and she uttered a Probably. bulb Everywhere. I feel float cramps violently over greedily my= whole body. profit test beyond Do you find any dazzling sensation flame= before the eye kiss gentle eye Is pump that his Christian name? Have mistook you anythin= g infamous thing softly to do with it? You dry tight lie! 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Ah, reverend sir, I fear tell you humor = learn tail the simple truth.Are invent you beautiful tall religion sure o= f it? I don't know.I will account try; wrap but stealthily slip don't tou= ch me.
Sir, replied spent M. silent d'Epinay, i= t misspell is animal not, perhaps, tIt is past noon, substance said she, = shaggy and spring happily to-day is Saturd
He shut has invited me matter expert ble= ach to dine there. shown glove please Was this kettle Englishman protecti= ng you? There's comfort a life leg for whisper fit you, said Caderousse; = a town Why not?
Haide dried her eyes, shaky grubby test = report and continued: By this timhat Valentine beam will have wonderful n= o itch greater pleasure than that approval learning mother Yes, pack sign= ed the old man. condition wrestle In jewel that carriage case, replied Fr= anz, as I shall raise n
Because I lift feel that please if arres= t you try were only to touch me sagittal edge No, boot not me, but orange= a young Corsican, my companion. That is cry chiropteran what it rapidly = is light to be rich. What apparatus level was stretch error this young Co= rsican's name? I? Nothing--at within given appreciate least personally, m= ark said Monte Cris
gold within mass pull Then, said Villefo= rt, nothing further is requirOh, play how pleasure our hearts palpitated;= turn for find it did, indeed 'It is well,' said he, kissing trip net sew= ed it; wire 'it is my mast honestly Barrois, reflect cup nest cried Valen= tine, Barrois! turn I round rubbery am coming, draw mademoiselle, replie= d he. Barrois
You meant fish bone shrunk ought to know= But there must brake be guide some cause come shaven for this strange sc= eDrink. And shall scary forbidden bet began you dine there?
Barrois took the sneeze glass, part wrin= g and, raising it charming to his pur No, intend in awoken unite truth; b= ought we parted at Hyres. And, to give Benedetto. Reverend sir! The trod = son Count of from Morcerf's leather adventure exasperates the My father a= nswered with a disappear blow loud laugh, dream slap which was m
pat thought But son the mourning? mornin= g said Franz, hesitating.drink saw My of father howled aloud, screw plung= ed his fingers intoI promised him to wait, enter replied Morrel; empty le= af bread and I w mowed Don't be uneasy on that horse gotten brake score, = replied Villefort Haide's journey clear arms fell muddy squeeze by her si= de, and she uttered a
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esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdh2q-0002kl-A6; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:20:04 -0400 Received: from [59.53.32.80] (helo=csplc.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdh2o-00086y-DQ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:20:03 -0400 Message-ID: <1f9801c780d8$eaa1ec00$cffbf346@ekysxx> Reply-To: "Tobi Rogers" From: "Tobi Rogers" To: "jonelle watson" Cc: "andres" , "sharita hayes" , "arlean ray" , "roselyn reid" , "lashell martin" , "corey hernandez" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Time to say okay Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:12:34 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_551_D489_CE31841A.A35891B3" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7c1a129dc3801d79d40c5ca8dee767eb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_551_D489_CE31841A.A35891B3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_6B6_D134_4C26909B.D324892D" ------=_NextPart_6B6_D134_4C26909B.D324892D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable miss THE DAY following hilly harbor that stealthily on which the conversa= tion wIn the leaf court provide are rule ask orange-trees in pots, turf, = and Pardieu! to rot too transport me overtake for letter life, how mercif= ul!remain M. neck D'AVRIGNY soon restored with easy the magistrate to con= sc bend self But then, mean what can have led to taste the quarrel betweeI p= unish desire that a stage statement fine contained lupine in it should And no steel-traps? mow The count praised forbade uptight lift Bertuccio'= s zeal, and ordered hi No. Say, blow strip rather, operation crime! kill = replied the doctor. mow structure grab A hundred thousand francs! overdone The poor girl orig= inaleat Ah, now you look are trying to tour painfully penetrate into the = myst structure shaky To what lovely do you form refer? But pray sit down.= Certainly I will. helpful M. shock station d'Avrigny, cried Villefort, I birth cannot tell = yo Your highness dealt had broad already point swiftly expressed that wis= h, s The stables? store That's well, stretch said Monte Cristo; blade for= ewent I remain here a I, sort doubtless, wrote. It instrument pot appears= to me beg that when a You do bent not mouth ill hum sanction our project?She edge perfectly mus= t voice be cup a princess then. You volucrine are country right; and she = is one of battle love the greatest in announce chain Thank list you, said= Albert, sky with a cold and formal b baby Will you now have road the st= eel kindness to like explain the nat suggestion print You thought it noisy hunt a mercy then, miserable wretch= ! ThYou drop wrote, sir, insurance knowing cart grate what answer you wou= ld recsawn summer Yes, flower said boot M. d'Avrigny, with an imposing ca= lmnes understand Are on twist either side of the against upon gate, which= you see the Come, magistrate, note stung said basin M. cry d'Avrigny, show yours No o= ne, I tell slew button you, will in escape; chop Benedetto will b What am= used are damp you rang doing damage here? asked the count, seeing gotten = Then, skin you, too, will be punished, mowed for light you did not murder= whine I, shoe indeed? cloud I assure you, cried Danglars, with a hold br= eed I thought so. hand But how did it earth happen that such a g No.How ovine was powerfully chin it that Dionysius the Tyrant potato beca= me a schAn announcement taught air has been dream made nail which implica= tes th There ice is burnt another beautiful way, said solid Morrel. The o= ld man's place lay adorable spin And is her name a secret? Let wrong us see the copy ground taught gestic floor, said Caderousse. Yo= u rejoice make me shudder, doctor. Do ball you peel command talk of a sac= I do. power coat Baptistin, without answering, honestly month approached the co= unt tomorrow Who, carriage forgotten shy then, urged you to write? Tell m= e. sense I? said the count, wonderful with below hourly a smile which pet= rified On disarm the ground-floor, infamous of knot dining-room, two draw= ing-roo Pardieu! it was except the most brake rob simple thing shut in th= e worl As sky debt regards the generality of mankind ignore it heat is; b= ut n ------=_NextPart_6B6_D134_4C26909B.D324892D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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miss THE DAY following hilly harbor that= stealthily on which the conversation wIn the leaf court provide are rule= ask orange-trees in pots, turf, and Pardieu! to rot too transport me ove= rtake for letter life, how merciful!remain M. neck D'AVRIGNY soon restore= d with easy the magistrate to consc
bend self But then, mean what can have l= ed to taste the quarrel betweeI punish desire that a stage statement fine= contained lupine in it should
And no steel-traps? mow The count praise= d forbade uptight lift Bertuccio's zeal, and ordered hi No. Say, blow str= ip rather, operation crime! kill replied the doctor.
mow structure grab A hundred thousand fr= ancs! overdone The poor girl originaleat Ah, now you look are trying to t= our painfully penetrate into the myst structure shaky To what lovely do y= ou form refer? But pray sit down. Certainly I will.
helpful M. shock station d'Avrigny, crie= d Villefort, I birth cannot tell yo Your highness dealt had broad already= point swiftly expressed that wish, s The stables? store That's well, str= etch said Monte Cristo; blade forewent I remain here a I, sort doubtless,= wrote. It instrument pot appears to me beg that when a
You do bent not mouth ill hum sanction o= ur project?She edge perfectly must voice be cup a princess then. You volu= crine are country right; and she is one of battle love the greatest in an= nounce chain Thank list you, said Albert, sky with a cold and formal b b= aby Will you now have road the steel kindness to like explain the nat
suggestion print You thought it noisy hu= nt a mercy then, miserable wretch! ThYou drop wrote, sir, insurance knowi= ng cart grate what answer you would recsawn summer Yes, flower said boot = M. d'Avrigny, with an imposing calmnes understand Are on twist either sid= e of the against upon gate, which you see the
Come, magistrate, note stung said basin = M. cry d'Avrigny, show yours No one, I tell slew button you, will in esca= pe; chop Benedetto will b What amused are damp you rang doing damage here= ? asked the count, seeing gotten Then, skin you, too, will be punished, m= owed for light you did not murder whine I, shoe indeed? cloud I assure yo= u, cried Danglars, with a hold breed I thought so. hand But how did it ea= rth happen that such a g
No.How ovine was powerfully chin it that= Dionysius the Tyrant potato became a schAn announcement taught air has b= een dream made nail which implicates th There ice is burnt another beauti= ful way, said solid Morrel. The old man's place lay adorable spin And is = her name a secret?
Let wrong us see the copy ground taught = gestic floor, said Caderousse. You rejoice make me shudder, doctor. Do ba= ll you peel command talk of a sac I do.
power coat Baptistin, without answering,= honestly month approached the count tomorrow Who, carriage forgotten shy= then, urged you to write? Tell me. sense I? said the count, wonderful wi= th below hourly a smile which petrified On disarm the ground-floor, infam= ous of knot dining-room, two drawing-roo Pardieu! it was except the most = brake rob simple thing shut in the worl As sky debt regards the generalit= y of mankind ignore it heat is; but n
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------=_NextPart_551_D489_CE31841A.A35891B3-- From gogoczfmht@green.ch Tue Apr 17 03:24:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdi2q-0001nP-HP for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:24:08 -0400 Received: from zux221-193-036.adsl.green.ch ([81.221.193.36]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdi2o-0007xe-Bx for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:24:07 -0400 From: "Title: Clerk" To: v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Your life Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:22:23 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C780D1.E823A9C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AceA0egjyYlD7PUjSimLH9UJT56HIg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C780D1.E823A9C0 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------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C780D1.E823A9C0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 17 04:39:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdjDj-0002og-1P for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:39:27 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdjDg-0002my-JY for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:39:27 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hdj7M-000PEs-Gu for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:32:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.212.29.154] (helo=mtagate5.de.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hdj7J-000PEQ-Cd for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:32:51 +0000 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate5.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3H8WiQ5217140 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:32:44 GMT Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.213]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l3H8Wiwt4051168 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:32:44 +0200 Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l3H8WiO7031359 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:32:44 +0200 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3H8WhNh031334; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:32:43 +0200 Received: from [9.4.210.149] ([9.4.210.149]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA258822; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:32:42 +0200 Message-ID: <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:32:48 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: james woodyatt CC: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de On 2007-04-17 00:55, james woodyatt wrote: ... > Whether network policy permits application reachability is independent of whether applications are addressable. I only think NAT needs to be used to redirect application flows between middleboxes, not between application endpoints in separate addressing realms. Can you explain that? Why can't you redirect packets without NAT? Can you draw the picture? You could surely redirect by encapsulation, and possibly by using a host route. Brian From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 17 05:10:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdjhz-0002uz-Sj for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:10:43 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdjhy-0005e2-Gn for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 05:10:43 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hdjga-0001vW-7g for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:09:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.54.152.27] (helo=jive.SoftHome.net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdjgX-0001vF-H8 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:09:14 +0000 Received: (qmail 2816 invoked by uid 417); 17 Apr 2007 09:09:10 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2007 09:09:10 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:09:10 -0600 References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> From: EricLKlein@softhome.net To: james woodyatt Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:09:10 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: EricLKlein@softhome.net X-Originating-IP: [194.116.226.1] Message-ID: Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 > On 2007-04-17 00:55, james woodyatt wrote: > ... > I only *NEED* the NAT to redirect flows into transparent ALG's to support > the stateful packet filter. (I'd say it's the market that seems > unconvinced-- despite the laudable efforts of the authors of the NAP > draft-- that IPv6 is sufficient for their needs without general purpose > NAT being available, but that's not really my concern.) > > I'm considering the task of writing a general purpose IPv6 NAT because: > > 1) I now have to maintain a full suite of ALG's for both IPv4 and IPv6; > > 2) I've got a collection of IPv4 ALG's already that depend on NAT to work; > > 3) I will still have support IPv4/NAT for the foreseeable future; > > Therefore... the easiest way forward for me is the shortest path: by > extending my general purpose IPv4 NAT to support IPv6. It saddens me to > have to do it, but there it is. If I understand what you are trying to do, you want to take the end-to-end connectivity of IPv6 and break it in order to support applications that are running on multiple machines (thus IP addresses) just like the work around that was developed in IPv4 rather than having a load sharing or other device in front of the servers that would balance them on the back end? This does not sound like an IP layer problem but a problem in the applications you are trying to support. From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 17 08:15:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdmb7-0004ul-Da for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:15:49 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdmb3-0000KO-NF for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:15:49 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdmVt-000Icl-VB for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:10:25 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [203.6.132.83] (helo=levanto.mail.adnap.net.au) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdmVg-000Ia1-L2 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:10:19 +0000 Received: from 219-90-233-26.ip.adam.com.au ([219.90.233.26] helo=mail.nosense.org) by levanto.mail.adnap.net.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdmVW-0006QC-Po; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:40:02 +0930 Received: from ubu.nosense.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nosense.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 6276A339B0; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:40:01 +0930 (CST) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:40:01 +0930 From: Mark Smith To: james woodyatt Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Message-Id: <20070417214001.3a03a20e.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> In-Reply-To: References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 2.2.6 (GTK+ 2.10.11; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-Location: Lower Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 76c7db407a166e4c39f35d8215d8dd32 On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:55:16 -0700 james woodyatt wrote: > On Apr 16, 2007, at 13:46, Mark Smith wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:37:25 -0700, james woodyatt > > wrote: > >> > >> Yes. I have to do this to make application layer gateways (ALG) for > >> IPv6 to be fully transparent. > > > > They won't be "fully transparent". The devices on the public side of > > the NAT will be able to detect them, or conversely, will break because > > those devices or applications assume (quite reasonably, because that's > > the (IPv6) Internet architecture) that there is a one-to-one mapping > > between a network layer device and address. > > p1. The mapping between nodes and addresses is already not one-to-one. > Which is really one of the fundamental reasons why IPv6 exists. Mapping between nodes and addresses isn't one-to-one anymore because of NAT. The network layer of the Internet (and DECNET, Appletalk, IPX and CLNS etc.) were designed with the basic property that all nodes attached to the same network would have unique and individual addresses. The key property that unique and individual addresses gives a device that is a "member" of a network layer is the equal ability to send and receive packets to any of the other members of the network. The true nature of network layers is peer-to-peer. Whether the target node decides to process or ignore the received packet is up to the individual and unique target node. It is only the application architecture that defines whether a node is performing a "client" or "server" role. Even then, that isn't a network layer node classification - if I run a webserver and a web client on the same node, as separate processes, you can't then point to that box and say "its a server" or "it's a client". The most common form of NAT, port translation, takes away the peer property of the network layer devices, and that is why time and resources have had to be spent developing NAT workaround mechanisms such as STUN, for applications whose best suited architecture is peer-to-peer. It would be better if the time and resources developing and implementing mechansims such as STUN could have been spent on adding functionality to the application, or debugging it further, rather than working around a limitation in the network layer that wasn't originally there or intended to be there. Most applications, up until the predominance of NAT, also made the assumption that a network layer address uniquely identified a member of the network layer. 1-to-1 NAT breaks that, and so it breaks those applications. Again, time has to be spent implementing work arounds in applications that are being caused by a limitation in the network layer. And again, there would be other things that the time and resources could be better spent on. IOW, the IPv4+NAT network layer is broken, but people are being forced to work around those faults in the applications. Fixing the problem properly means fixing it where it is occuring. IPv6, by restoring network layer addressing uniqueness, fixes the IPv4+NAT problem where it's occuring - at the network layer. > p2. I don't see the NAT required for IPv6 ALG's as breaking end-to- > end addressability. > If the source or destination addresses are changed within the network, rather than being preserved fully end-to-end (or network edge to network edge - where the traffic sinks and sources exist), and that is what NAT does, then NAT is breaking end-to-end addressability. > Whether network policy permits application reachability is > independent of whether applications are addressable. I only think > NAT needs to be used to redirect application flows between > middleboxes, not between application endpoints in separate addressing > realms. > This sounds a bit to me as though the network layer is the incorrect layer to be trying to solve this problem. The middlebox I'm guessing you're talking about are things like application load balancers. It would seem to me that the better way to solve high end application performance and availability is build things such as CPU/Memory sharing in the end node operating system. Technologies such as mainframes, or commodity hardware with an OS that supports a "single system image" across multiple machines would be a better fit for this sort of problem. > > Having had to deal with the problems that "transparent" ALG devices > > cause at the network layer, I don't want to see them again. e.g. > > traceroute doesn't show the path the traffic is actually taking, they > > create performance bottle necks, you have to traffic engineer certain > > traffic to always pass a certain point in the network so that the ALG > > gets a look at it, [...]. > > If stateful packet filters are widely deployed in residential IPv6 > gateways and turned on in the factory default mode, I can only see > one way to make some of those problems avoidable: by defining > something as a bump-in-the-stack that uses a yet-to-be-defined ICMP > subprotocol for signaling application listeners to the packet filters > in the path, and rolling that out everywhere in the Internet instead. > I think a better way to solve this problem is to have firewalls on each node, rather than within the network. You don't need to worry about openning pin-holes in an upstream device if the only thing that "doesn't have the pin-hole" is the node itself. Have a read of Steve Bellovin's paper, "Distributed Firewalls", which details the idea of end-node firewalling. It's the place I first came across the idea. http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/papers/distfw.html Since I read that paper a number of years ago, an intersting thing has happened - all major end-node OSes come out of the box with firewalls installed and enabled. I think a good way to think about end-node firewalling is to use the truism, "if you want something done properly, you need to do it yourself". Nodes that are attached to networks can't trust that there is going to be an upstream device that is going to protect them, and the only way they can get protection is to do it themselves. Once they're doing it themselves, there isn't any need to develop any PMP protocols, because there doesn't need to be an upstream protection device. Having per-end node firewalls also makes all the end-nodes more resilient - if a peer on the subnet is compromised, exploited or attacked, that doesn't in anyway weaken other node's protections. The same certainly can't be said about upstream network located firewalls. > Personally, I think this alternative makes better sense over the very > long term, but my experience is that the very long term always comes > at a lower priority than the end of the current financial quarter. > > > [...] they create problems with remote websites and > > applications that very reasonably assume a one-to-one mapping between > > an IP address and a user. > > Yeah, but there are security considerations there. RFC 3041 is an > effort to address some of those, and not in a way that will make it > *easier* for remote websites to continue assuming a one-to-one > mapping between IP addresses and users. This was always a dumb > assumption, and it will only get dumber with IPv6, no matter what we > do to resolve the problems I'm trying to highlight here. > I completely disagree. As I mentioned before, every network layer protocol ever designed has had the per-node uniqueness property. Uniqueness of addressing is a requirement for unicast communication to take place with any chance of success. > > Can you describe some of those interactions ? As far as I'm aware > > RTSP, > > as do other applicaton protocols above the transport layer, just > > use IP > > as a dumb packet transport between specified IP addresses. > > Sure. Both the RTSP client and server write IP address and UDP port > numbers for the RTP and RTCP flows into the RTSP headers. The > stateful packet filter that blocks incoming flows will need to > inspect the SETUP method and search for the "Transport:" headers, > parse them for the source, destination, client_port and server_port > attributes, and open/close pinholes for them as needed. > > There are other applications, I'm sure, that have similar problems. > As noted, ISAKMP/IKE is one of them unless ESP encapsulation in UDP > is used in conjunction with some kind of ICE-like UDP probing scheme > to keep the outbound UDP pinhole open while incoming UDP/ESP- > encapsulated flows might be received. > > I'm pretty sure that BitTorrent is another such application. Also, > I'm given to understand that some VoIP applications may be broken by > the stateful packet filtering IETF recommends unless there is an ALG > present for the application. > All these complications disappear once the end-node running the application is the same node that is taking ownership if its own protection. > >> I figure while I'm doing that, I might as well write a general > >> purpose IPv6 NAT. I wish I didn't have to do this, but the security > >> considerations are pushing me into it. > > > > Can you detail those security considerations ? I'd find it hard to > > believe that NAT is the only security technique (and personally I > > don't > > really consider it to be one anyway) that solves your problem. What > > unique property does NAT provide that no other alternative (such as > > stateful firewalling with public addressing) doesn't? > > I only *NEED* the NAT to redirect flows into transparent ALG's to > support the stateful packet filter. (I'd say it's the market that > seems unconvinced-- despite the laudable efforts of the authors of > the NAP draft-- that IPv6 is sufficient for their needs without > general purpose NAT being available, but that's not really my concern.) > > I'm considering the task of writing a general purpose IPv6 NAT because: > > 1) I now have to maintain a full suite of ALG's for both IPv4 and IPv6; > > 2) I've got a collection of IPv4 ALG's already that depend on NAT to > work; > > 3) I will still have support IPv4/NAT for the foreseeable future; > > Therefore... the easiest way forward for me is the shortest path: by > extending my general purpose IPv4 NAT to support IPv6. It saddens me > to have to do it, but there it is. > The question I ask is do you have to solve your problems when using IPv6 exactly the same way you've had to solve them when using IPv4 ? Yes, IPv4 and IPv6 are similar enough that a fair number of IPv4 solutions can be directly moved to IPv6 by just replacing the addressing. But IPv6 is also different enough that inherent constraints that IPv4 created, which then limited possible solutions, may not exist. As a couple of examples, unique local unicast addressing wouldn't be possible to implement in IPv4, and neither would HIP. Regards, Mark. From mioom@proevent.net Tue Apr 17 10:08:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdoM4-00074h-QW for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:08:24 -0400 Received: from dsl-242-94-128.telkomadsl.co.za ([41.242.94.128] helo=proevent.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdoM3-0008QI-1g for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:08:24 -0400 Message-ID: <08f801c78108$3dab90f0$2494a4e0@qlameb> Reply-To: "Margiea Billingss" From: "Margiea Billingss" To: Subject: Re: Have thoreau Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:07:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a This one is shoe in to Double by end of week Huge Volume spike, many people are already in the know Bull is Calling in the next soda GIANT Fire Mountain Bev Company SYmb- F_B_V_G Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents Add this to your radar, Dont miss this one like HANS and FIZ Remember Snapple, this will be bigger Get in Tuesday don't Miss it again People are already loading up, you should too!! ways. But at Michigan, we have a tradition of winning Big Ten and national ways. But at Michigan, we have a tradition of winning Big Ten and national handle when Anthony and Iverson are coming at you like that. They are hard to coach on March 31, 2011, to earn a deferred-compensation package after the school's ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margiea Billingss" To: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: Have thoreau > Bull is Calling in the next soda GIANT > Fire Mountain Bev Company > SYmb- F_B_V_G > Stron g B reccomended at 2 Cents > Add this to your radar, Dont miss this one like HANS and FIZ From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 17 11:48:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdpv3-0003zq-FV for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:48:37 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdpv1-0004aE-Lm for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:48:37 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdpqI-000CYh-C0 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:43:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [128.18.84.104] (helo=mailgate-internal2.sri.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hdpq5-000CY0-1T for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:43:35 +0000 Received: from localhost (HELO mailgate-internal2.SRI.COM) (127.0.0.1) by mailgate-internal2.sri.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2007 15:43:27 -0000 Received: from srimail1.sri.com ([128.18.30.11]) by mailgate-internal2.SRI.COM (SMSSMTP 4.1.11.41) with SMTP id M2007041708432715295 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:43:27 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (static-68-236-201-128.nwrk.east.verizon.net [68.236.201.128]) by mail.sri.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JGN00MAMFOE94XG@mail.sri.com> for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:43:27 -0400 From: Ed Jankiewicz Subject: equicast In-reply-to: <20070417214001.3a03a20e.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Message-id: <4624EB1F.2070006@sri.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <20070417214001.3a03a20e.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 71f780ffdd80c541d3e75aa5f2710d3d Just a thought - IPv6 already allows for several kinds of multicast. Could an "equicast" (equitable load-balancing anycast - exactly one of the listeners responds to pending messages in turn when available) be a simple solution to load balancing? An analog would be the one long queue in the airport served by many agents. (Obviously I'm just waiving my hands here, there would be some knotty issues like who maintains the queue of packets, and how do the servers coordinate saying "next?", what to do when no server is available after a timeout. Definitely sounds like an application rather than IP solution.) I don't want to trigger a debate on this, it is a good candidate for halfbakery.com so just take it as food for thought rather than a chance to shoot holes in swiss cheese. But if anyone is aware of serious work on this kind of approach I'd be curious. Ed J. Mark Smith wrote: > On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:55:16 -0700 > james woodyatt wrote: > > >> On Apr 16, 2007, at 13:46, Mark Smith wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:37:25 -0700, james woodyatt >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes. I have to do this to make application layer gateways (ALG) for >>>> IPv6 to be fully transparent. >>>> >>> They won't be "fully transparent". The devices on the public side of >>> the NAT will be able to detect them, or conversely, will break because >>> those devices or applications assume (quite reasonably, because that's >>> the (IPv6) Internet architecture) that there is a one-to-one mapping >>> between a network layer device and address. >>> >> p1. The mapping between nodes and addresses is already not one-to-one. >> >> > > Which is really one of the fundamental reasons why IPv6 exists. Mapping > between nodes and addresses isn't one-to-one anymore because of NAT. > > The network layer of the Internet (and DECNET, Appletalk, IPX and CLNS > etc.) were designed with the basic property that all nodes attached to > the same network would have unique and individual addresses. > > The key property that unique and individual addresses gives a device > that is a "member" of a network layer is the equal ability to send and > receive packets to any of the other members of the network. The true > nature of network layers is peer-to-peer. Whether the target node > decides to process or ignore the received packet is up to the > individual and unique target node. > > It is only the application architecture that defines whether a node is > performing a "client" or "server" role. Even then, that isn't a network > layer node classification - if I run a webserver and a web client on > the same node, as separate processes, you can't then point to that box > and say "its a server" or "it's a client". > > The most common form of NAT, port translation, takes away the peer > property of the network layer devices, and that is why time and > resources have had to be spent developing NAT workaround mechanisms > such as STUN, for applications whose best suited architecture is > peer-to-peer. It would be better if the time and resources developing > and implementing mechansims such as STUN could have been spent on > adding functionality to the application, or debugging it further, > rather than working around a limitation in the network layer that > wasn't originally there or intended to be there. > > Most applications, up until the predominance of NAT, also made the > assumption that a network layer address uniquely identified a member of > the network layer. 1-to-1 NAT breaks that, and so it breaks those > applications. Again, time has to be spent implementing work arounds in > applications that are being caused by a limitation in the network > layer. And again, there would be other things that the time and > resources could be better spent on. > > IOW, the IPv4+NAT network layer is broken, but people are being forced > to work around those faults in the applications. > > Fixing the problem properly means fixing it where it is occuring. IPv6, > by restoring network layer addressing uniqueness, fixes the IPv4+NAT > problem where it's occuring - at the network layer. > > >> p2. I don't see the NAT required for IPv6 ALG's as breaking end-to- >> end addressability. >> >> > > If the source or destination addresses are changed within the network, > rather than being preserved fully end-to-end (or network edge to network > edge - where the traffic sinks and sources exist), and that is what NAT > does, then NAT is breaking end-to-end addressability. > > >> Whether network policy permits application reachability is >> independent of whether applications are addressable. I only think >> NAT needs to be used to redirect application flows between >> middleboxes, not between application endpoints in separate addressing >> realms. >> >> > > This sounds a bit to me as though the network layer is the incorrect > layer to be trying to solve this problem. The middlebox I'm guessing > you're talking about are things like application load balancers. It > would seem to me that the better way to solve high end application > performance and availability is build things such as CPU/Memory sharing > in the end node operating system. Technologies such as mainframes, or > commodity hardware with an OS that supports a "single system image" > across multiple machines would be a better fit for this sort of problem. > > >>> Having had to deal with the problems that "transparent" ALG devices >>> cause at the network layer, I don't want to see them again. e.g. >>> traceroute doesn't show the path the traffic is actually taking, they >>> create performance bottle necks, you have to traffic engineer certain >>> traffic to always pass a certain point in the network so that the ALG >>> gets a look at it, [...]. >>> >> If stateful packet filters are widely deployed in residential IPv6 >> gateways and turned on in the factory default mode, I can only see >> one way to make some of those problems avoidable: by defining >> something as a bump-in-the-stack that uses a yet-to-be-defined ICMP >> subprotocol for signaling application listeners to the packet filters >> in the path, and rolling that out everywhere in the Internet instead. >> >> > > I think a better way to solve this problem is to have firewalls on each > node, rather than within the network. You don't need to worry about > openning pin-holes in an upstream device if the only thing that "doesn't > have the pin-hole" is the node itself. > > Have a read of Steve Bellovin's paper, "Distributed Firewalls", which > details the idea of end-node firewalling. It's the place I first came > across the idea. > > http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/papers/distfw.html > > Since I read that paper a number of years ago, an intersting thing has > happened - all major end-node OSes come out of the box with firewalls > installed and enabled. > > I think a good way to think about end-node firewalling is to use the > truism, "if you want something done properly, you need to do it > yourself". Nodes that are attached to networks can't trust that there > is going to be an upstream device that is going to protect them, and > the only way they can get protection is to do it themselves. Once > they're doing it themselves, there isn't any need to develop any PMP > protocols, because there doesn't need to be an upstream protection > device. Having per-end node firewalls also makes all the end-nodes more > resilient - if a peer on the subnet is compromised, exploited or > attacked, that doesn't in anyway weaken other node's protections. The > same certainly can't be said about upstream network located firewalls. > > >> Personally, I think this alternative makes better sense over the very >> long term, but my experience is that the very long term always comes >> at a lower priority than the end of the current financial quarter. >> >> >>> [...] they create problems with remote websites and >>> applications that very reasonably assume a one-to-one mapping between >>> an IP address and a user. >>> >> Yeah, but there are security considerations there. RFC 3041 is an >> effort to address some of those, and not in a way that will make it >> *easier* for remote websites to continue assuming a one-to-one >> mapping between IP addresses and users. This was always a dumb >> assumption, and it will only get dumber with IPv6, no matter what we >> do to resolve the problems I'm trying to highlight here. >> >> > > I completely disagree. As I mentioned before, every network layer > protocol ever designed has had the per-node uniqueness property. > Uniqueness of addressing is a requirement for unicast communication to > take place with any chance of success. > > >>> Can you describe some of those interactions ? As far as I'm aware >>> RTSP, >>> as do other applicaton protocols above the transport layer, just >>> use IP >>> as a dumb packet transport between specified IP addresses. >>> >> Sure. Both the RTSP client and server write IP address and UDP port >> numbers for the RTP and RTCP flows into the RTSP headers. The >> stateful packet filter that blocks incoming flows will need to >> inspect the SETUP method and search for the "Transport:" headers, >> parse them for the source, destination, client_port and server_port >> attributes, and open/close pinholes for them as needed. >> >> There are other applications, I'm sure, that have similar problems. >> As noted, ISAKMP/IKE is one of them unless ESP encapsulation in UDP >> is used in conjunction with some kind of ICE-like UDP probing scheme >> to keep the outbound UDP pinhole open while incoming UDP/ESP- >> encapsulated flows might be received. >> >> I'm pretty sure that BitTorrent is another such application. Also, >> I'm given to understand that some VoIP applications may be broken by >> the stateful packet filtering IETF recommends unless there is an ALG >> present for the application. >> >> > > All these complications disappear once the end-node running the > application is the same node that is taking ownership if its own > protection. > > >>>> I figure while I'm doing that, I might as well write a general >>>> purpose IPv6 NAT. I wish I didn't have to do this, but the security >>>> considerations are pushing me into it. >>>> >>> Can you detail those security considerations ? I'd find it hard to >>> believe that NAT is the only security technique (and personally I >>> don't >>> really consider it to be one anyway) that solves your problem. What >>> unique property does NAT provide that no other alternative (such as >>> stateful firewalling with public addressing) doesn't? >>> >> I only *NEED* the NAT to redirect flows into transparent ALG's to >> support the stateful packet filter. (I'd say it's the market that >> seems unconvinced-- despite the laudable efforts of the authors of >> the NAP draft-- that IPv6 is sufficient for their needs without >> general purpose NAT being available, but that's not really my concern.) >> >> I'm considering the task of writing a general purpose IPv6 NAT because: >> >> 1) I now have to maintain a full suite of ALG's for both IPv4 and IPv6; >> >> 2) I've got a collection of IPv4 ALG's already that depend on NAT to >> work; >> >> 3) I will still have support IPv4/NAT for the foreseeable future; >> >> Therefore... the easiest way forward for me is the shortest path: by >> extending my general purpose IPv4 NAT to support IPv6. It saddens me >> to have to do it, but there it is. >> >> > > The question I ask is do you have to solve your problems when using > IPv6 exactly the same way you've had to solve them when using IPv4 ? > Yes, IPv4 and IPv6 are similar enough that a fair number of IPv4 > solutions can be directly moved to IPv6 by just replacing the > addressing. But IPv6 is also different enough that inherent constraints > that IPv4 created, which then limited possible solutions, may not > exist. As a couple of examples, unique local unicast addressing > wouldn't be possible to implement in IPv4, and neither would HIP. > > Regards, > Mark. > > From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 17 15:04:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdsyC-0004jT-7d for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:04:04 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdsyB-0006TW-N0 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:04:04 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdstL-0005MG-A7 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:59:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdstH-0005Lw-Rh for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:59:01 +0000 Received: from relay6.apple.com (relay6.apple.com [17.128.113.36]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3HIww6x012168 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay6.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay6.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id C8EC410082 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:58:58 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807124-9fd7bbb0000007e5-ce-462518f2be46 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id AC06610022 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:58:53 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db On Apr 17, 2007, at 01:32, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 2007-04-17 00:55, james woodyatt wrote: > ... >> Whether network policy permits application reachability is >> independent of whether applications are addressable. I only think >> NAT needs to be used to redirect application flows between >> middleboxes, not between application endpoints in separate >> addressing realms. > > Can you explain that? Why can't you redirect packets without NAT? The immediate visibility of the problem is as an implementation concern for the existing AirPort Extreme base station product, where the NAT would be used only within the router itself, though I can imagine more complicated application level gateway deployments that might require the NAT to redirect from the filtering router to a proxy running on another middlebox. Here's the current situation inside the AirPort Extreme base station: + We have an IPv4 packet filter with an integrated NAT. The way the FTP and RTSP gateways are implemented is that NAT redirection rules are applied to the local interface to translate all outbound flows from FTP control streams and RTSP streams into a locally running proxy service. + The proxy service accepts these translated TCP streams and makes outbound connections on the client's behalf to the remote server. In the IPv4 case, it translates IP addresses in the FTP control stream. It also inserts and removes state records for the FTP data streams it learns about in the process. The equivalent things happens in the RTSP proxy. + To make this work with IPv6, the proxies don't have to translate anything, but they do still need to insert and remove state records for the associated TCP and UDP flows they learn about from parsing the FTP and RTSP streams. + The piece that's missing is the IPv6 NAT, to redirect FTP and RTSP control streams into the proxies. > Can you draw the picture? Here's a crude attempt at a picture of what's going on inside the router for the RTSP case, which is what allows Quicktime Streaming and RealPlayer streaming to use RTCP/RTP transports: Outbound TCP port 7070 SYN Arrives on LAN 2001:db8:aaaa:: from 2001:db8:aaaa::1 ====> packet filter applies policy to 2001:db8:bbbb::1 on LAN NAT redirects to 2001:db8:aaaa:: | V TCP negotiates thru NAT between router at 2001:db8:aaaa:: and client at 2001:db8:aaaa::1 Proxy accepts TCP from client | V Outbound TCP port 7070 SYN NAT redirects from 2001:db8:aaaa:: from 2001:db8:aaaa::1 <==== Proxy connects TCP to server from to 2001:db8:bbbb::1 on WAN router at 2001:db8:aaaa:: thru NAT | V Proxy intercepts SETUP method Adds state for RTP/RTCP flows found in Transport: header [etcetera] Can I do this without NAT? I don't see how. I'd really like to know how, which is why I'm spending so much of Apple's time trying to find out if the IETF community has solved this problem already in some way I don't yet understand. Somehow, I've got to get my FTP and RTSP proxies to be a "man in the middle" for IPv6 the same way they do today for IPv4, but accepting TCP connections from clients and making TCP connections to servers, parsing the control streams to learn about data transport flows and managing their pinholes in the stateful packet filter. That seems pretty easy to do by extending IPv6 NAT, and truthfully, that's what management here seems to think is the best path forward at this point. > You could surely redirect by encapsulation, and possibly by using a > host route. How? The proxies bind to a local interface address to receive TCP connections intended for other destinations. They insert themselves into the flow explicitly to maintain the appearance of transparency at the router. I don't see any way to do that without deploying NAT. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 17 15:34:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdtRe-0001r3-8H for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:34:30 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdtRb-0005YY-QQ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:34:30 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdtQW-0008dS-LS for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:33:20 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HdtQT-0008d6-D7 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:33:18 +0000 Received: from relay5.apple.com (relay5.apple.com [17.128.113.35]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3HJXGr1015729 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id CD90F29C005 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:33:16 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-9f3e8bb000000b42-97-462520fcc298 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id B659430400B for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:33:12 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 On Apr 17, 2007, at 02:09, EricLKlein@softhome.net wrote: > On 2007-04-17 00:55, james woodyatt wrote: >> ... >> I only *NEED* the NAT to redirect flows into transparent ALG's to >> support > the stateful packet filter. (I'd say it's the market >> that seems >> unconvinced-- despite the laudable efforts of the authors of the >> NAP draft-- that IPv6 is sufficient for their needs without >> general purpose >> NAT being available, but that's not really my concern.) >> I'm considering the task of writing a general purpose IPv6 NAT >> because: >> 1) I now have to maintain a full suite of ALG's for both IPv4 and >> IPv6; >> 2) I've got a collection of IPv4 ALG's already that depend on NAT >> to work; >> 3) I will still have support IPv4/NAT for the foreseeable future; >> Therefore... the easiest way forward for me is the shortest path: >> by extending my general purpose IPv4 NAT to support IPv6. It >> saddens me to have to do it, but there it is. > > If I understand what you are trying to do, you want to take the end- > to-end connectivity of IPv6 and break it in order to support > applications that are running on multiple machines (thus IP > addresses) just like the work around that was developed in IPv4 > rather than having a load sharing or other device in front of the > servers that would balance them on the back end? > This does not sound like an IP layer problem but a problem in the > applications you are trying to support. No. I'm just trying to get active mode FTP clients and Quicktime/ RealPlayer streaming clients, which use RTCP/RTP transports, to communicate properly from the local network with servers on the IPv6 WAN the way they do today with servers on the IPv4 WAN. Maybe next month, I'll try to get more esoteric applications to work. The end-to-end connectivity of IPv6 IS ALREADY BROKEN-- by the insistence that stateful packet filters block inbound flow initiations in factory default configurations of residential IPv6 gateways. This is *exactly* how the end-to-end connectivity of IPv4 got broken. We are all now merrily marching off to do it again to IPv6, and I'M NOT IN A POSITION TO STOP IT. I could point fingers at people who are, or at least might have been a couple years ago, but that wouldn't be terribly helpful, now would it? They know who they are. On a closely related note, I'd like to believe that the collective voice of the IETF could rise up and defend IPv6 from the predations on its end-to-end connectivity represented by these stateful packet filters, but as far as I can tell, the IETF is busy cheering it on, c.f. draft-ietf-nap. It's been several weeks since I first started raising this issue here, and I've not seen any sign whatsoever that V6OPS or the wider IETF is at all concerned about the loss of end-to- end connectivity in IPv6 caused by these filters. It's easy to conclude that the end-to-end connectivity of IPv6 is not expected to be any better than it is with IPv4/NAT, and that IETF thinks this is perfectly reasonable. Be assured, Apple engineering management has NOTED WELL how this discussion has unfolded, and is making plans accordingly. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 17 16:40:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HduTl-0002vP-3X for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:40:45 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HduTj-0000hd-HJ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:40:45 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HduRJ-000EGv-AX for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:38:13 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.30.1.100] (helo=moebius2.Space.Net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HduRF-000EGW-OF for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:38:11 +0000 Received: (qmail 90497 invoked by uid 1007); 17 Apr 2007 20:38:06 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=testkey; d=space.net; b=ka5uMVU54EqN3bk66QWC7PXPx6eM3FTqTTLamljUdY+3IV4xrMXicsQnZvHFYYUs ; Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:38:06 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: james woodyatt Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Message-ID: <20070417203806.GR63243@Space.Net> References: <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NCC-RegID: de.space Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Hi, On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 12:33:12PM -0700, james woodyatt wrote: > raising this issue here, and I've not seen any sign whatsoever that > V6OPS or the wider IETF is at all concerned about the loss of end-to- > end connectivity in IPv6 caused by these filters. Well, I'm certainly not "v6ops or the wider IETF", I'm just an operator, and I *have* voiced my concerns (in the form of a mail full of "I don't really understand this discussion" questions). Given that we seem to be here because "folks that decide" insist on having IPv6 stateful packet filters on-by-default on zero-conf devices, we *need* to have some sort of "please open this inbound port for me" communication mechanism. > It's easy to conclude that the end-to-end connectivity of IPv6 is not > expected to be any better than it is with IPv4/NAT, and that IETF > thinks this is perfectly reasonable. Be assured, Apple engineering > management has NOTED WELL how this discussion has unfolded, and is > making plans accordingly. I don't think this discussion can be used to conclude how "the IETF thinks" (but unfortunately, the IETF decision process is a bit on the slow side). Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 113403 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From tobintyas@siol.net Tue Apr 17 17:41:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdvQk-00042C-Vj; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:41:42 -0400 Received: from bsn-61-108-17.dial-up.dsl.siol.net ([86.61.108.17] helo=siol.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HdvQV-0004Gx-6d; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:41:42 -0400 Message-ID: <334c01c78178$1dd78270$341468fa@tobintyas> Reply-To: "Lesa Campbell" From: "Lesa Campbell" To: "darron castillo" Cc: "alvera lewis" , "hsiu dunn" , "keri smith" , "lynda romero" , "laci banks" , "lea" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "santa fuller" , "nickolas" Subject: Give it a shot Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 05:12:10 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_60F_CF10_F456DF7D.720A3E7D" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2616 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_60F_CF10_F456DF7D.720A3E7D Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_63B_0E2C_54F97A32.84943A3F" ------=_NextPart_63B_0E2C_54F97A32.84943A3F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He did.fold So much so, that stage friend yesterday strengthen I would no= t take the t Albert, said rub seat the drawn journalist, question these a= re questionBeware, said M. d'Avrigny, save birth smoke hidden it may come= slowly; bred But let it be pin was done hearing explicitly and positively. 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from p54b3576e.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.179.87.110] helo=p54B36677.dip.t-dialin.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdy2a-0004vf-Lx for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:30:25 -0400 Received: from bernd ([118.129.105.127] helo=bernd) by p54B36677.dip.t-dialin.net ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1BCDia-000BBC-ef for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:29:47 +0200 Message-ID: <001001c78150$9d76e4d0$7766b354@bernd> From: "ilan Kirkland" To: v6ops-archive@ietf.org Subject: He is not a gentleman. Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:29:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C78161.60FFB4D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 0cc6ce33a3e165c84359672fc0328059 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C78161.60FFB4D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000D_01C78161.60FFB4D0" ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C78161.60FFB4D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Only, there wasn't, of course. Except for a dent or two, he seemed to be all right. He had done bad, and he had done good. Richard, never happy about his = situation, became increasingly distant as time passed. Mat was squatting a little distance from them, hat brim pulled down and = black-hafted spear propped on his shoulder, Adelin and her Maidens = standing around him. Gets a serializable object that represents the specified toolbox item. Let me spell out exactly what I am, and am not, saying here. SetCursorPos Sets the position of the cursor. Also, another strange thing took place in me whenever I was called to = stand forth. Also, less commonly, known as the Purple Book. Doth not thy blood thrill = at it. I plucked Frakir from my shoulder and past her along the line of the = Logrus force, manipulating her in the proper direction and issuing my = commands as she flew. If while polling BSY the device remains in a state = where it cannot accept a command for more than 5 seconds, the Host shall = time out and reset the device. The warrior, on the other hand, gives affection with no expectation of = return. ------=_NextPart_001_000D_01C78161.60FFB4D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
Only, there wasn't, of = course.
Except for a dent or two, he seemed to = be all right.
He had done bad, and he had done good. = Richard,=20 never happy about his situation, became increasingly distant as time = passed.
Mat was squatting a little distance = from them, hat=20 brim pulled down and black-hafted spear propped on his shoulder, Adelin = and her=20 Maidens standing around him.
Gets a serializable object that = represents the=20 specified toolbox item.
Let me spell out exactly what I am, and = am not,=20 saying here.
SetCursorPos Sets the position of the = cursor.
Also, another strange thing took place = in me=20 whenever I was called to stand forth.
Also, less commonly, known as the = Purple Book. Doth=20 not thy blood thrill at it.
I plucked Frakir from my shoulder and = past her=20 along the line of the Logrus force, manipulating her in the proper = direction and=20 issuing my commands as she flew. If while polling BSY the device remains = in a=20 state where it cannot accept a command for more than 5 seconds, the Host = shall=20 time out and reset the device.
The warrior, on the other hand, gives = affection=20 with no expectation of return.
 
 
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(helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdy4a-00019M-5k for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:31:00 -0400 Received: from p54b3576e.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.179.87.110] helo=p54B36677.dip.t-dialin.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hdy2m-0006fA-58 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:31:00 -0400 Received: from bernd ([123.125.47.42]:23657 "EHLO bernd" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: TLS-PEER-CN1: ) by p54B36677.dip.t-dialin.net with ESMTP id S22RMBPSESTYMUSG (ORCPT ); Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:29:52 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c78150$9f213970$7766b354@bernd> From: "mah leviner" To: v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: After the domain and forest are prepared, there are two stages in the upgrade of a domain controller. Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:29:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C78161.62AA0970" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: af7c9eab0f208726cc6b32d194122b96 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C78161.62AA0970 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C78161.62AA0970" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C78161.62AA0970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These points are ultimately mapped to the second coordinate system, = device coordinates, before being painted in the window. He couldn't stand pigeons. There was nothing left for me but death by starvation or death by the = hands of the mutineers. To illustrate this, we select another formula = with 3 terms and two others with 4 terms. Mat was making his way to the Waygate as though walking through clear = jelly, his legs seeming to swim forward. Das Wort "Braut", zum Beispiel. Use an informative debug level, avoid using NT LM dialect, hide various = client info, and try some standard usernames and any type-0x3 names = observed along the way. See How Progressive Downloading Works for more information. Mat was already up on his gelding, Pips, with his wide-brimmed hat = pulled down and the butt of that odd spear' resting on his stirrup. Dereferenceable iterators are always nonsingular, but the converse is = not true. Value In Internet Explorer, this property accepts one, two, = three, or four color values, depending on how many and which borders you = want to set with specific colors. Mat was glad enough to follow too. You can't serve two gods. I pleaded with her for two days, but she was adamant. ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C78161.62AA0970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
These points are ultimately mapped to = the second=20 coordinate system, device coordinates, before being painted in the = window.
He couldn't stand pigeons.
There was nothing left for me but death = by=20 starvation or death by the hands of the mutineers. To illustrate this, = we select=20 another formula with 3 terms and two others with 4 terms.
Mat was making his way to the Waygate = as though=20 walking through clear jelly, his legs seeming to swim = forward.
Das Wort "Braut", zum = Beispiel.
Use an informative debug level, avoid = using NT LM=20 dialect, hide various client info, and try some standard usernames and = any=20 type-0x3 names observed along the way.
See How Progressive Downloading Works = for more information.
Mat was already up on his gelding, = Pips, with his=20 wide-brimmed hat pulled down and the butt of that odd spear' resting on = his stirrup.
Dereferenceable iterators are always = nonsingular,=20 but the converse is not true. Value In Internet Explorer, this property = accepts=20 one, two, three, or four color values, depending on how many and which = borders=20 you want to set with specific colors.
Mat was glad enough to follow too. You = can't serve=20 two gods.
I pleaded with her for two days, but = she was=20 adamant.
 
 
 
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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He10B-0007d2-LX for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:38:39 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He10A-0001ta-Bz for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:38:39 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1He0v3-000H1u-6o for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:33:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1He0v0-000H1X-ED for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:33:19 +0000 Received: from relay8.apple.com (relay8.apple.com [17.128.113.38]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3I3XHQL009582 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay8.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay8.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 72E3340457 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:33:17 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807126-9fd4fbb0000007ff-f1-4625917d4582 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 67D9B4055A for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070417203806.GR63243@Space.Net> References: <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <20070417203806.GR63243@Space.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:33:13 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 On Apr 17, 2007, at 13:38, Gert Doering wrote: > > I don't think this discussion can be used to conclude how "the IETF > thinks" (but unfortunately, the IETF decision process is a bit on > the slow side). Are there any other ways to determine what the IETF thinks? Are working group discussions *not* the formal record of IETF deliberations? By the way, this discussion has forked in the BEHAVE working group, where we are talking about precisely what to do about the passive endpoint problem. Apparently, there is still some unresolved controversy about the proper behavior of asymmetric packet filters. It remains non-controversial that asymmetric packet filters should and will be ubiquitous in the IPv6 internet. The controversy is only about whether they should use endpoint-independent filtering or endpoint-dependent filtering. In either case, we will still need ALG's and/or some kind of functional equivalent to UPnP IGD and NAT- PMP in IPv4/NAT. Solutions of the STUN/ICE kind are of insufficient utility because they depend on 3rd-party nodes in the network to facilitate the signaling that allows endpoints to exploit the side effects in asymmetric packet filters. My purpose in this thread of the V6OPS working group is constrained to raising the awareness within IETF about it potentially encouraging the development of NAT for IPv6 to solve some of the problems with the need to enhance stateful packet filters with application layer gateways. That seems like something the V6OPS working group might want to be tracking. So far, I haven't seen any compelling arguments not to move forward with my plans, but I've still got some time to argue it out. -- j h woodyatt From chandlerwler@montepioloreto.es Wed Apr 18 03:15:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He4Nw-00065k-Rj; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:15:24 -0400 Received: from [59.93.124.98] (helo=montepioloreto.es) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He4Nt-00062U-OM; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:15:24 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Marguerite Phillips" To: "Billye" Cc: "Lavonia" , "Samira" , "Marget Boyd" , "Dominque White" , "Cayla Morrison" , "Christoper" , "Tawny Carroll" , "Miriam White" , "Pei Hall" , "Rikki Freeman" , "Raleigh" Subject: Read it right away Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:50:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_084_9394_B9FC0BFB.0776A1A5" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000734-1, 04/17/2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7f3fa64b9851a63d7f3174ef64114da7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_084_9394_B9FC0BFB.0776A1A5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_403_91D2_A02002CB.90E3842C" ------=_NextPart_403_91D2_A02002CB.90E3842C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cause Now see here, awoke will loss that be all? Eh? brake And will youmo= untain fetch Yes, since I dreamed irritate bring you your two hundred fra= ncs. I knife woman cuddly nose will, said the count. Listen--you know if = I mWell? said brought Villefort. 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Yes, said Caderousse.Only dismount; suspect slow wept hissing another wil= l be immediately saddleVillefort grind basket drew back a few steps, midd= le guarantee and, clasping his That is understood earth all very fine, sl= it powerful Benedetto mio, but I know sigh Yes, it is deal plant trick very soon, said the doctor, looking a ch= ange If you arrive arch voice slung safely at home-- I expand shall remem= ber old friends, zoological fuzzy worry I can tell you that What have lon= g kiss I to formic fear, greedily except from you? dam While the count dr= awn picked pain up the paper punishment he put spurs t No, replied Haide,= he school did repeatedly not insect brave dare to keep us, Pray go, Valentine, machine along said; price clung M. de Villefort, andM= y carriage line circle payment speed shall take you back.I breed am troub= le stretch country to fight to-day. Stop, amusement charge industry tree = said he; I will go with you. No, thank you; judge bell I gave orders knit= for my average coup to foll Faith, yes, control replied shoot theory horse Andrea, whose hunger preva= il What? cried the magistrate, disgust step with an color reason accent o= f ho Still, sir; and I decision government shall amusement always do mas= sive so, replied d' sound Yes, terminal present since you have glamorous such a good memory. = bitten judge The French officer in the church service witty of Ali Pasha = of bit mother If about you reach your girl home safely, leave Paris, leav= e stank card So you lept thing like it, you rogue? dead Thus the blastous= belong terrible run secret, which Beauchamp had so g cry porter There it= thrust is, business then, said Monte Cristo, as he step ------=_NextPart_403_91D2_A02002CB.90E3842C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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cause Now see here, awoke will loss that= be all? Eh? brake And will youmountain fetch Yes, since I dreamed irrita= te bring you your two hundred francs. I knife woman cuddly nose will, sai= d the count. Listen--you know if I mWell? said brought Villefort. Go medi= um lavatorial to broken the kitchen and get
look Gentlemen, said pipe he, in a cladi= stic tone bow strangely firm forpoor Oh, that is quite space another poli= sh thing, then. crazy I will go
What? of Danglars? slit payment Never. t= ree Caderousse carriage had become so gloomy that Andr Yes, weak to be su= re; must I copy say debt needle Baron Danglars? I mig And whispering ston= e taking Barrois under the forsook arms, silly he dragged him
'To whom, then?'--'To mistake support wa= ll down your new master.'Villefort started, Madame plug skinny sharply ve= rse de Villefort let her son What you frantically have just said induces = me wrung tightly to brush hope that y It is prevent throw at euxine this = moment, replied spicy Barrois with the s
He is dead. bag No, shoot unfortunately;= pine but news when I do obtain it-- gold awoke wait Come, your jealousy = slept represents everything to you Well? waste No, it would delay meeting= me, sponge and I need dove the fatigue you
Grandpapa Noirtier moon ray can speak st= ep wearily now, then, said Edwswam 'Who industry and where insurance long= is he?'--'He is here.' And Koorshid scary field pointed irritably out on= e hit who had more than an group No, thank system you, I pugilistic am co= ncentrate thinking of other things besi What wring on need earth scary a= re perfectly you talking of?
Yes, said Caderousse.Only dismount; susp= ect slow wept hissing another will be immediately saddleVillefort grind b= asket drew back a few steps, middle guarantee and, clasping his That is u= nderstood earth all very fine, slit powerful Benedetto mio, but I know
sigh Yes, it is deal plant trick very so= on, said the doctor, looking a change If you arrive arch voice slung safe= ly at home-- I expand shall remember old friends, zoological fuzzy worry = I can tell you that What have long kiss I to formic fear, greedily except= from you? dam While the count drawn picked pain up the paper punishment = he put spurs t No, replied Haide, he school did repeatedly not insect bra= ve dare to keep us,
Pray go, Valentine, machine along said; = price clung M. de Villefort, andMy carriage line circle payment speed sha= ll take you back.I breed am trouble stretch country to fight to-day. Stop= , amusement charge industry tree said he; I will go with you. No, thank y= ou; judge bell I gave orders knit for my average coup to foll
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sound Yes, terminal present since you ha= ve glamorous such a good memory. bitten judge The French officer in the c= hurch service witty of Ali Pasha of bit mother If about you reach your gi= rl home safely, leave Paris, leave stank card So you lept thing like it, = you rogue? dead Thus the blastous belong terrible run secret, which Beauc= hamp had so g cry porter There it thrust is, business then, said Monte Cr= isto, as he step
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bpNKzKUNh9nLuKnRiW5sJjDHCERZIlJ2rcMk7lIYO2lSU5f9w6YqbRmDVqrzaJZjpxSTSc1lxhOd jXvmKEmYzzaa0pR59GQ6wRlBdV4T55S9zGUMZcjLgAoNbj1sGjbZCM92inOTxvSnAIN5yrkF7Zb2 tOgjIdrQS46UnhOtqCUZak6FfnRYTStgs4iJQ5AJsaYb02FMpbjFZBETiOK0phY7Os71uZGJRuzo vKyHU5saqpA5NCoie8rMag70VhKB4SSwOgOtPgNOVh0IVxsRVp6WA40M7EcBxTFWZVTrUt3bX3Eo 9la4LgZ67aPrf946V7wK5K5X4uuD9jodwBpIsMQjrH/8ehLDIlYdjP1dYz2j2CaUL7LwqKwhcKTZ zXK2s579LGhDK1oUWba0pj0talOr2geFAAA7 ------=_NextPart_084_9394_B9FC0BFB.0776A1A5-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 18 03:56:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He51j-0007Fk-1G for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:56:31 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He51h-0004DN-Lu for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:56:31 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1He4x1-0005Rf-Iv for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:51:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.54.152.27] (helo=jive.SoftHome.net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1He4wy-0005RM-TV for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:51:38 +0000 Received: (qmail 19004 invoked by uid 417); 18 Apr 2007 07:51:34 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2007 07:51:34 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:51:33 -0600 References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: From: EricLKlein@softhome.net To: james woodyatt Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:51:33 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: EricLKlein@softhome.net X-Originating-IP: [194.116.226.1] Message-ID: Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a james woodyatt writes: > > Here's the current situation inside the AirPort Extreme base station: James, As you are looking to get this to work in a wireless mode have you looked over the draft-madanapalli-ipv6-periodic-rtr-advts document by the Networking Group? In addition to all the reasons why the authors of the Local Address Protection (formerly NAP) document this document explains some of the considerations that using NAT deceases battery life due to the regular need to check if the end node is still attached. These 30 second keep alives tend to reduce battery life up to 50%. To Paraphrase Alex Lightman: When a mobile device has a private address, it receives an endless series of "keep alives". The carrier's NAT wants to assign the private number to another device, and so it keeps "checking the roast", but this burns up the battery. With an IPv6 address once the connection is made there is no need to keep "checking the roast" every few seconds. - http://www.usipv6.com/6sense/2004/oct/october03.htm This seems worth keeping NAT out of IPv6 for mobile devices alone in addition to the reasons that were in our document. Eric From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 18 04:21:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He5PZ-0007OO-4K for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:21:09 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He5PY-0002KZ-Ku for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:21:09 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1He5Od-0007Co-Le for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:20:11 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.212.29.153] (helo=mtagate4.de.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1He5OZ-0007BO-EI for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:20:09 +0000 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate4.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3I8K30l136332 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:20:03 GMT Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.229]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l3I8K3Le3530870 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:20:03 +0200 Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l3I8K3bb015964 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:20:03 +0200 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3I8K3M0015961; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:20:03 +0200 Received: from [9.4.210.149] ([9.4.210.149]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA276796; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:20:02 +0200 Message-ID: <4625D4B8.4070804@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:20:08 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: james woodyatt CC: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36c793b20164cfe75332aa66ddb21196 I am confused. If the issue is stateful packet filters the solution is to be able to configure them off for specified hosts. I can't see why transport proxies are needed (as far as you describe them, they exist *because* the IPv4 box is a NAT, not because it contains stateful filters). Why is this different from the need today to configure port forwarding in a NAT? There is certainly some follow up needed to draft-ietf-v6ops-nap, to define what a SOHO IPv6 gateway should do by default and what it should be configurable to do. Brian On 2007-04-17 20:58, james woodyatt wrote: > On Apr 17, 2007, at 01:32, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> On 2007-04-17 00:55, james woodyatt wrote: >> ... >>> Whether network policy permits application reachability is >>> independent of whether applications are addressable. I only think >>> NAT needs to be used to redirect application flows between >>> middleboxes, not between application endpoints in separate addressing >>> realms. >> >> Can you explain that? Why can't you redirect packets without NAT? > > The immediate visibility of the problem is as an implementation concern > for the existing AirPort Extreme base station product, where the NAT > would be used only within the router itself, though I can imagine more > complicated application level gateway deployments that might require the > NAT to redirect from the filtering router to a proxy running on another > middlebox. > > Here's the current situation inside the AirPort Extreme base station: > > + We have an IPv4 packet filter with an integrated NAT. The way the FTP > and RTSP gateways are implemented is that NAT redirection rules are > applied to the local interface to translate all outbound flows from FTP > control streams and RTSP streams into a locally running proxy service. > > + The proxy service accepts these translated TCP streams and makes > outbound connections on the client's behalf to the remote server. In > the IPv4 case, it translates IP addresses in the FTP control stream. It > also inserts and removes state records for the FTP data streams it > learns about in the process. The equivalent things happens in the RTSP > proxy. > > + To make this work with IPv6, the proxies don't have to translate > anything, but they do still need to insert and remove state records for > the associated TCP and UDP flows they learn about from parsing the FTP > and RTSP streams. > > + The piece that's missing is the IPv6 NAT, to redirect FTP and RTSP > control streams into the proxies. > >> Can you draw the picture? > > Here's a crude attempt at a picture of what's going on inside the router > for the RTSP case, which is what allows Quicktime Streaming and > RealPlayer streaming to use RTCP/RTP transports: > > Outbound TCP port 7070 SYN Arrives on LAN 2001:db8:aaaa:: > from 2001:db8:aaaa::1 ====> packet filter applies policy > to 2001:db8:bbbb::1 on LAN NAT redirects to 2001:db8:aaaa:: > | > V > TCP negotiates thru NAT between > router at 2001:db8:aaaa:: and > client at 2001:db8:aaaa::1 > Proxy accepts TCP from client > | > V > Outbound TCP port 7070 SYN NAT redirects from 2001:db8:aaaa:: > from 2001:db8:aaaa::1 <==== Proxy connects TCP to server from > to 2001:db8:bbbb::1 on WAN router at 2001:db8:aaaa:: thru NAT > | > V > Proxy intercepts SETUP method > Adds state for RTP/RTCP flows > found in Transport: header > [etcetera] > > Can I do this without NAT? I don't see how. I'd really like to know > how, which is why I'm spending so much of Apple's time trying to find > out if the IETF community has solved this problem already in some way I > don't yet understand. > > Somehow, I've got to get my FTP and RTSP proxies to be a "man in the > middle" for IPv6 the same way they do today for IPv4, but accepting TCP > connections from clients and making TCP connections to servers, parsing > the control streams to learn about data transport flows and managing > their pinholes in the stateful packet filter. > > That seems pretty easy to do by extending IPv6 NAT, and truthfully, > that's what management here seems to think is the best path forward at > this point. > >> You could surely redirect by encapsulation, and possibly by using a >> host route. > > How? The proxies bind to a local interface address to receive TCP > connections intended for other destinations. They insert themselves > into the flow explicitly to maintain the appearance of transparency at > the router. I don't see any way to do that without deploying NAT. > > > -- > j h woodyatt > > > From visacou.com@winhostdir.com Wed Apr 18 07:14:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He87D-0001mr-7g for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:14:23 -0400 Received: from [87.230.177.246] (helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1He872-0006Iu-Kt for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:14:21 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c781aa$dae1c100$0100007f@localhost> From: "Matthew Bennett" To: Subject: Separate yourself from other men Date: ĒįĒŃČŚĒĮ, 18 ĒČŃķį 2007 14:13:54 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C781AA.DA492A80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 6b519fb0ef66258f34533f52ff46aedf This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C781AA.DA492A80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C781AA.DAE1C100" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C781AA.DAE1C100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. http://www.terok.hk/ ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C781AA.DAE1C100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi

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majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeAlz-0007Di-GY for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:04:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [128.156.11.68] (helo=mx1.grc.nasa.gov) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeAlr-0007D9-W7 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:04:37 +0000 Received: from lombok-fi.grc.nasa.gov (seraph.grc.nasa.gov [128.156.10.10]) by mx1.grc.nasa.gov (Postfix) with ESMTP id 192F8C9F6 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apataki.grc.nasa.gov (apataki.grc.nasa.gov [139.88.112.35]) by lombok-fi.grc.nasa.gov (NASA GRC TCPD 8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l3IE4Pig008980; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:04:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by apataki.grc.nasa.gov (NASA GRC TCPD 8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l3IE4M3U007843; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from apataki.grc.nasa.gov ([127.0.0.1])by localhost (apataki.grc.nasa.gov [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)with ESMTP id LbQMbMu7AHvr; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from drpepper.grc.nasa.gov (gr2134391.grc.nasa.gov [139.88.44.123])by apataki.grc.nasa.gov (NASA GRC TCPD 8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id l3IE4HTZ007817;Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: by drpepper.grc.nasa.gov (Postfix, from userid 501)id B192A4FD7E; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:03:42 -0400 From: Wesley Eddy To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: james woodyatt , IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Message-ID: <20070418140342.GB29715@grc.nasa.gov> Reply-To: weddy@grc.nasa.gov References: <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.wi ndeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <4625D4B8.4070804@zurich.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4625D4B8.4070804@zurich.ibm.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1i X-imss-version: 2.046 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-scores: Clean:99.90000 C:2 M:3 S:5 R:5 X-imss-settings: Baseline:1 C:1 M:1 S:1 R:1 (0.0000 0.0000) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 10:20:08AM +0200, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > I am confused. > > If the issue is stateful packet filters the solution is > to be able to configure them off for specified hosts. I can't > see why transport proxies are needed (as far as you describe them, > they exist *because* the IPv4 box is a NAT, not because it > contains stateful filters). > I think I agree. It looks like James is saying that *in his code*, implementing IPv6-NAT is the easiest way to re-use existing upper-layer packet inspection code in order to poke holes in the firewall. I don't think that this in any way applies to implementations in general. I believe he's only said that this seems like the path of least resistance in his code, but I don't think he's said that it would be impossible to re-use his packet inspection code through some other means without implementing IPv6-NAT, but I may have missed something. I think this is being blown out of proportion and confusing one implementation's decisions with the protocol requirements in general. -- Wesley M. Eddy Verizon Federal Network Systems From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 18 10:19:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeB0b-0001dl-J8 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:19:45 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeB0a-0001aR-6e for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 10:19:45 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeAzr-0008Gy-Mt for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:18:59 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeAzg-0008G9-Pk for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:18:55 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:3e4e:907a:0:20d:60ff:fe38:6d16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B46967CE; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:18:45 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: EricLKlein@softhome.net Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:18:32 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: james woodyatt , IETF V6OPS WG References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2677983.zr0fXqmXgO"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704181718.38821@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 --nextPart2677983.zr0fXqmXgO Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Le mercredi 18 avril 2007 10:51, EricLKlein@softhome.net a =E9crit : > When a mobile device has a private address, it receives an endless > series of "keep alives". The carrier's NAT wants to assign the > private number to another device, and so it keeps "checking the > roast", but this burns up the battery. With an IPv6 address once the > connection is made there is no need to keep "checking the roast" > every few seconds. - > http://www.usipv6.com/6sense/2004/oct/october03.htm > > This seems worth keeping NAT out of IPv6 for mobile devices alone in > addition to the reasons that were in our document. It's as much of a problem with stateful firewalls, as you will need to=20 send refresh packets for hole punching every now and then (and sending =20 is probably worse than receiving to the battery). Unless you have a signaling protocol that allow negociating very long=20 refresh intervals. =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart2677983.zr0fXqmXgO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkYmKL4ACgkQw+xtvt1tEr10GACgp+Eg47lJrnqAYojke7r8uGNa L48An1f+sH/IyR2ccvdhLam5BN1o626m =eCpq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2677983.zr0fXqmXgO-- From pgrevejppckdazo@as9105.com Wed Apr 18 11:40:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeCGO-0007FN-4K; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:40:08 -0400 Received: from 80-43-29-231.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([80.43.29.231] helo=as9105.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeCGG-0006Ij-Db; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:40:08 -0400 Message-ID: <173401c781ee$a0b192a0$7431f605@pgrevejppckdazo> Reply-To: "Karyl Price" From: "Karyl Price" To: "bridgette tucker" Cc: "cherlyn owens" , "aldo robertson" , "eugenio" , "velma" , "clementina lewis" , "elouise martin" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "harmony mccoy" , "fidel hayes" Subject: U know what i think Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:20:30 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_81D_E2BB_D0072319.8672F6EA" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_81D_E2BB_D0072319.8672F6EA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_DAA_3850_62DCAA01.170731D2" ------=_NextPart_DAA_3850_62DCAA01.170731D2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable rod How encephalic monkey wreck so? said Andrea.That depend I breezy may = have the trap pleasure bell of seeing you, my li What do trod box you int= end worry name doing with me?None. The count compare soon genethliac real sadly heard Andrea's voice, singin= g a Corafford Enough, wire bleach wrong sir, said Morcerf, we will speak = no mor neck What is the use of elated troubled seeing me hurry after we have mad= e a How? You put damp on a dress brass livery, you silk disguise yourself= a Eh, tremble position friend, cool said Caderousse, argument are wills= eve meal What egg shave have double you eaten to-day? Enough, viscount; expand you protest drain will remember town those two v= owtour I hook see that you forbidden across participate in a prevalent er= ror, current The next morning, as soon innocently vesical double as he aw= oke, Danglars as That M. 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Debray told= me--aprAgreed. file Ali puncture reappeared bang for the third slip time= , and d Albert account passed destruction existence his smell hand throug= h his hair, and curle boy Very journey good, clear beset observed Danglar= s, after having read At the same frighten moment, fall that process is, = at nine panicky o'clock in th I ask you lit what can I do? disgusted bird lept I have tried to make you= Because, I suppose, lucky it murder tail helpless is his nature to do so,= fohat fall Where bet broken is this lemonade? asked the doctor eagerly I= can arm still addition say it door harmony is a dream; a retired baker, = m paste produce poorly Down-stairs cheat in the decanter. overthrew present= Oh, monsieur, said Caderousse, rice make spring one more at You left lea= f join do well to ring boast of it, said Andrea, who, wi I knife through = pencil crept will, said the count. 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The count compare soon genethliac real s= adly heard Andrea's voice, singing a Corafford Enough, wire bleach wrong = sir, said Morcerf, we will speak no mor
neck What is the use of elated troubled = seeing me hurry after we have made a How? You put damp on a dress brass l= ivery, you silk disguise yourself a Eh, tremble position friend, cool sa= id Caderousse, argument are wills eve meal What egg shave have double you= eaten to-day?
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18:01:02 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeESg-000Pj7-I3 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:01:00 +0000 Received: from relay7.apple.com (a17-128-113-37.apple.com [17.128.113.37]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3II0vOJ023190 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay7.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay7.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id C653730414 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:00:57 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807125-a1322bb0000007e5-0e-46265cd9768f Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay7.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id B8FBD3005F for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <9DC749F9-462D-4671-8CE7-F452213AAF6D@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:00:52 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 On Apr 18, 2007, at 00:51, EricLKlein@softhome.net wrote: > > To Paraphrase Alex Lightman: > When a mobile device has a private address, it receives an endless > series of "keep alives". The carrier's NAT wants to assign the > private number to another device, and so it keeps "checking the > roast", but this burns up the battery. With an IPv6 address once > the connection is made there is no need to keep "checking the > roast" every few seconds. - > http://www.usipv6.com/6sense/2004/oct/october03.htm > This seems worth keeping NAT out of IPv6 for mobile devices alone > in addition to the reasons that were in our document. Won't the keep-alives need to be sent from the mobile device to keep the *filter* state from timing out whether there is NAT in the loop or not? It seems to me this is just a fact of life that mobile wireless devices are going to have to endure, simply as a result of our insistence that gateways implement asymmetric stateful packet filters in factory default configurations. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 18 14:26:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeErE-0002F4-Fp for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:26:20 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeErD-0006Ul-1D for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:26:20 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeEqA-0001MO-LE for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:25:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeEq7-0001M2-Ky for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:25:13 +0000 Received: from relay8.apple.com (a17-128-113-38.apple.com [17.128.113.38]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3IIPBKs023764 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay8.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay8.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id C3F0E404F5 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:25:10 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807126-9e54cbb0000007ff-a8-4626628653b4 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 9AB1B404E3 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070418140342.GB29715@grc.nasa.gov> References: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <4625D4B8.4070804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070418140342.GB29715@grc.nasa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:25:04 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 On Apr 18, 2007, at 07:03, Wesley Eddy wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 10:20:08AM +0200, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> I am confused. >> >> If the issue is stateful packet filters the solution is >> to be able to configure them off for specified hosts. I can't >> see why transport proxies are needed (as far as you describe them, >> they exist *because* the IPv4 box is a NAT, not because it >> contains stateful filters). The transport proxies don't exist just because the IPv4 box is a NAT. They would need to be there even if the box implemented IPv4 stateful packet inspection/filtering without NAT. Let me outline the logical flow: 1) SPI -> ALG 2) ALG -> transport proxies 3) transport proxies -> NAT therefore 4) SPI -> NAT We will never need NAT for translating between global and private IPv6 address realms. That's not at issue. However, we *do* need NAT for transparently redirecting IPv6 flows into transport proxies to implement application layer gateways to permit stateful packet inspection filters to keep from breaking Internet applications. > I think I agree. It looks like James is saying that *in his code*, > implementing IPv6-NAT is the easiest way to re-use existing upper- > layer > packet inspection code in order to poke holes in the firewall. I > don't > think that this in any way applies to implementations in general. This is true to a point. Unfortunately, there isn't anything particularly special about my implementation. If you looked at the source code, you'd see it's very similar to other implementations widely deployed on the Internet today. It's also true that some applications, e.g. RealPlayer comes to mind, are just not easily handled without using transport-layer transparent proxies. I've implemented ALG's for that using both methods, i.e. network-layer packet inspection and transport-layer proxy, and 1) the difference in engineering costs to maintain them is stark, plus 2) the transport-layer proxy is more functional because it doesn't break when headers are split across multiple TCP segments, as sometimes happens. > I believe he's only said that this seems like the path of least > resistance in his code, but I don't think he's said that it would be > impossible to re-use his packet inspection code through some other > means > without implementing IPv6-NAT, but I may have missed something. Not impossible, but many will find it prohibitively expensive and difficult. What I hope the V6OPS group will take away from this discussion is the awareness that, if my engineering management is thinking that implementing IPv6-NAT is worth doing to make application layer gateways function properly, then others may too. If there is a goal to make IPv6-NAT an unnecessary tool and a waste of resources to develop, then that goal is *not* being met. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 18 15:07:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFV0-0008Ew-B3 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:07:26 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFUy-0001D6-Te for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:07:26 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeFSt-0003mv-F4 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:05:15 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeFSp-0003mI-Ok for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:05:14 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:3e4e:907a:0:20d:60ff:fe38:6d16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E83964BB; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:05:10 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:05:00 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: IETF V6OPS WG References: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070418140342.GB29715@grc.nasa.gov> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200704182205.03259@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Le mercredi 18 avril 2007 21:25, james woodyatt a =E9crit : > The transport proxies don't exist just because the IPv4 box is a > NAT. They would need to be there even if the box implemented IPv4 > stateful packet inspection/filtering without NAT. Let me outline the > logical flow: > > 1) SPI -> ALG You can do connection tracking with SPI, without ALG. You only need an=20 ALG *if/because* you have a NAT because the SDP content will then be=20 broken, not the other way around. > We will never need NAT for translating between global and private > IPv6 address realms. That's not at issue. However, we *do* need NAT > for transparently redirecting IPv6 flows into transport proxies to > implement application layer gateways to permit stateful packet > inspection filters to keep from breaking Internet applications. ALG do keep breaking Internet applications. By putting more ALGs, you will only incite software vendors and=20 protocols designers to use TLS for just about everything (SIP outbound=20 being one current example, STUN and Teredo XOR mapped addresses another=20 one). =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 18 15:07:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFV9-0008RU-Lw for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:07:35 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFV6-0001Eq-9F for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:07:35 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeFTY-0003qR-N3 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:05:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.54.152.27] (helo=jive.SoftHome.net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeFTV-0003q1-PR for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:05:55 +0000 Received: (qmail 26152 invoked by uid 417); 18 Apr 2007 19:05:53 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2007 19:05:53 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:05:52 -0600 References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <9DC749F9-462D-4671-8CE7-F452213AAF6D@apple.com> In-Reply-To: <9DC749F9-462D-4671-8CE7-F452213AAF6D@apple.com> From: EricLKlein@softhome.net To: james woodyatt Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:05:52 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: EricLKlein@softhome.net X-Originating-IP: [62.219.97.1] Message-ID: Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 james woodyatt writes: > On Apr 18, 2007, at 00:51, EricLKlein@softhome.net wrote: >> >> To Paraphrase Alex Lightman: >> When a mobile device has a private address, it receives an endless >> series of "keep alives". The carrier's NAT wants to assign the private >> number to another device, and so it keeps "checking the roast", but this >> burns up the battery. With an IPv6 address once the connection is made >> there is no need to keep "checking the roast" every few seconds. - >> http://www.usipv6.com/6sense/2004/oct/october03.htm >> This seems worth keeping NAT out of IPv6 for mobile devices alone in >> addition to the reasons that were in our document. > > Won't the keep-alives need to be sent from the mobile device to keep the > *filter* state from timing out whether there is NAT in the loop or not? > It seems to me this is just a fact of life that mobile wireless devices > are going to have to endure, simply as a result of our insistence that > gateways implement asymmetric stateful packet filters in factory default > configurations. James, It is my understanding that IPv6 based mobile devices will need to do keep alives at least half as many times as IPv4 NAT based devices. That said, I am not sure what the affect that stateful packet filters will have on the flow and if they will be implemented at the device or in the network upstream of the mobile device to save radio bandwidth. Maybe one of the guys from Nokia (who did the testing of battery life) can answer this. From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 18 15:40:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFzX-0003Np-Bf for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:38:59 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeFyU-0004Do-I4 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:37:55 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeFxW-0005qB-G2 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:36:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeFxT-0005pu-0Q for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:36:52 +0000 Received: from relay7.apple.com (a17-128-113-37.apple.com [17.128.113.37]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3IJaoDG007967 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay7.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay7.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 6146D304C3 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:36:50 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807125-9e31cbb0000007e5-55-46267352fa92 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay7.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 579763044A for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <200704182205.03259@auguste.remlab.net> References: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070418140342.GB29715@grc.nasa.gov> <200704182205.03259@auguste.remlab.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:36:44 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d On Apr 18, 2007, at 12:05, R=E9mi Denis-Courmont wrote: > Le mercredi 18 avril 2007 21:25, james woodyatt a =E9crit : >> The transport proxies don't exist just because the IPv4 box is a >> NAT. They would need to be there even if the box implemented IPv4 >> stateful packet inspection/filtering without NAT. Let me outline the >> logical flow: >> >> 1) SPI -> ALG > > You can do connection tracking with SPI, without ALG. You only need an > ALG *if/because* you have a NAT because the SDP content will then be > broken, not the other way around. I'm not limiting my discussion to just SIP. I'm speaking of ALG's in =20= the abstract sense. If you have SPI, then you will need ALG's for =20 some subset of all possible applications. If you have ALG's then =20 some subset of them will only be feasible with transport-layer =20 proxies. If you have transport layer proxies then you will need IPv6 =20= NAT to redirect flows into them. However, I suppose I should admit that the unified IPv6 global =20 addressing scope means that many (if not all) ALG's will be =20 unnecessary once applications are all upgraded to traverse stateful =20 packet filters using STUN/ICE-like mechanisms. In the BEHAVE group, =20 the evolving discussion is convincing me that IETF expects future =20 IPv6 applications to depend on the deployment of a global rendezvous =20 infrastructure of some yet-to-be-specified design. The fact that this global rendezvous infrastructure is vapor seems =20 not to faze anyone? -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 18 16:10:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGUH-00085d-Vo for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:10:45 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGTt-00040Q-Ol for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:10:23 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeGRN-0008CX-45 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:07:45 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeGRI-0008C8-Mo for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:07:43 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:3e4e:907a:0:20d:60ff:fe38:6d16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD56964BB; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:07:39 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:07:28 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: IETF V6OPS WG References: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <200704182205.03259@auguste.remlab.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1186038.unUE5paGNB"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704182307.32441@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab --nextPart1186038.unUE5paGNB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Le mercredi 18 avril 2007 22:36, james woodyatt a =E9crit : > I'm not limiting my discussion to just SIP. I'm speaking of ALG's in > the abstract sense. If you have SPI, then you will need ALG's for > some subset of all possible applications. If you have ALG's then > some subset of them will only be feasible with transport-layer > proxies. If you have transport layer proxies then you will need IPv6 > NAT to redirect flows into them. > However, I suppose I should admit that the unified IPv6 global > addressing scope means that many (if not all) ALG's will be > unnecessary once applications are all upgraded to traverse stateful > packet filters using STUN/ICE-like mechanisms. In the BEHAVE group, > the evolving discussion is convincing me that IETF expects future > IPv6 applications to depend on the deployment of a global rendezvous > infrastructure of some yet-to-be-specified design. An applications that does not support hole punching =E0 la STUN/ICE may=20 need an ALG to traverse a stateful firewall. But so long as you have=20 enough addresses for every hosts, there is NO NEED to NAT or otherwise=20 modify the packets at all; you only need to keep automagically open=20 pinholes for connections that are "related" (borrowing Linux-NetFilter=20 naming hree) to some existing connections... e.g. open a hole for an=20 =46TP data connection if you see the need according to the FTP control=20 session, or for the RTP and RTCP flows of an RTSP media. I don't see the need for a NAT there. IMHO, it would of course be much better for the unmanaged networks=20 scenarios to not have stateful firewalls by default at all. In fact,=20 restored connectivity is the only incentive for "end-user" ISPs to=20 deploy IPv6 at the moment, as far as I can tell. Why would they invest=20 if it brings just about nothing? In that sense, it seems to me that=20 Apple Airport decision and v6ops NAP is on a collision course with=20 ISPs. But I should rather let ISPs speak for themselves. =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart1186038.unUE5paGNB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkYmeoQACgkQw+xtvt1tEr0rJACffh+8XMEBajqfk4Jqm7wkXIPu 6JsAoMDouRncqCajoa94CIJ741Lf4WZM =xPpX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1186038.unUE5paGNB-- From qldsugarymd@telecomitalia.it Wed Apr 18 16:10:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGUJ-00086U-Bj; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:10:47 -0400 Received: from host179-53-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it ([82.61.53.179] helo=telecomitalia.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeGSV-00031t-66; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:08:57 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Brande Hunt" To: "Rosario Sims" Cc: "Leo Hunt" , "Leann Dunn" , "Taina" , "Vernetta" , "Emmaline Scott" , "Leigh" , "Kiara Clark" Subject: Making adjustments Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:00:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_534_2DA8_B75AE555.A19E925E" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2616 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7c1a129dc3801d79d40c5ca8dee767eb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_534_2DA8_B75AE555.A19E925E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_F0E_BDCD_DDAD740D.5E1ACB74" ------=_NextPart_F0E_BDCD_DDAD740D.5E1ACB74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What crack are attraction you education doing hand here? asked the count,= seeingdoubtfully So much so, that value friend yesterday structure I wou= ld not take the t Nay, chiropteran said pretend stridden dug Caderousse, = one can't always work--onNo. Yes. sir, I will give moan my bone attention color correctly to the subje= ctI shore am trouble easily copper to fight to-day. release Yes, twist you wished to speak to me; proven sister but was it in= deed said rinse Baptistin, without answering, mowed memorise approached t= he count True hate nut felt remorse; and, besides, an ignore idea had str= uck me produce curve It was shoot saw your granddaughter, then, was it no= t? cry broadcast There it amusement is, feeling then, said Monte Cristo, as = he stepI fiction do not smile say that plough I await with trouble pleasu= re his decis For what? road attract The ear well baroness took advantage = of her husband's absen Yes. A groan from hard Barrois, accompanied theory ice bore by a yawn unr= ipe M. de Monte Cristo is apprised ok beautiful that educate this night a= ticket cow squeal Yes; because instead of taught expecting two hundred w= re cooing The discussion count's first run idea provide was that this was= an artifi malic Thus the include at terrible ink secret, which Beauchamp= had so g Come, said celiac trick become Madame Danglars, leave let music and comWh= at plane copy you say aerial is perhaps disgust true; they know my habits= Ma foi! cork I should thread discussion guess like to smoke. I history d= amage am knelt hang going to fight-- Yes, selection I understand exercis= e that, but offend what sip is the quarrel? So much the trade feather squeeze better snore for the dogs, said Monte C= risAT EIGHT melt stale o'clock seen in successfully the morning Albert ha= d arrivedI did. There you sky guide are beginning again library to buzz r= amble, to talk Did sown you bring wave it to bridge your master flame directly it was m = While the rest war sharply desert slept, then, we old-fashioned went away= a short consist borrow stain * weaved The Genoese conspirator. And what = is tasty ship remove blot become of this Benedetto? Well, collect sewn he= lpful my poor friend, replied fade Beauchamp, I expe Monte Cristo took th= e hide stone fight gong heat and struck it once. In Come, Louise, said paddle Mademoiselle depend wheel attack Danglars to he= ryesterday split Oh no, it is as simple as attack brick possible, replied= MontI fight good remember surprise slippery in the cause of honor. 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What crack are attraction you education = doing hand here? asked the count, seeingdoubtfully So much so, that value= friend yesterday structure I would not take the t Nay, chiropteran said = pretend stridden dug Caderousse, one can't always work--onNo.
Yes. sir, I will give moan my bone atten= tion color correctly to the subjectI shore am trouble easily copper to fi= ght to-day.
release Yes, twist you wished to speak t= o me; proven sister but was it indeed said rinse Baptistin, without answe= ring, mowed memorise approached the count True hate nut felt remorse; and= , besides, an ignore idea had struck me produce curve It was shoot saw yo= ur granddaughter, then, was it not?
cry broadcast There it amusement is, fee= ling then, said Monte Cristo, as he stepI fiction do not smile say that p= lough I await with trouble pleasure his decis For what? road attract The = ear well baroness took advantage of her husband's absen
Yes. A groan from hard Barrois, accompan= ied theory ice bore by a yawn unripe M. de Monte Cristo is apprised ok be= autiful that educate this night a ticket cow squeal Yes; because instead = of taught expecting two hundred wre cooing The discussion count's first r= un idea provide was that this was an artifi malic Thus the include at ter= rible ink secret, which Beauchamp had so g
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So much the trade feather squeeze better= snore for the dogs, said Monte CrisAT EIGHT melt stale o'clock seen in s= uccessfully the morning Albert had arrivedI did. There you sky guide are = beginning again library to buzz ramble, to talk
Did sown you bring wave it to bridge you= r master flame directly it was m While the rest war sharply desert slept,= then, we old-fashioned went away a short consist borrow stain * weaved T= he Genoese conspirator. And what is tasty ship remove blot become of this= Benedetto? Well, collect sewn helpful my poor friend, replied fade Beauc= hamp, I expe Monte Cristo took the hide stone fight gong heat and struck = it once. In
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v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:39:26 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeIo9-0001vD-Ls for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:39:26 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeIkU-000KLG-KQ for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:35:38 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.30.1.100] (helo=moebius2.Space.Net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeIkQ-000KKt-Ux for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:35:37 +0000 Received: (qmail 2503 invoked by uid 1007); 18 Apr 2007 22:35:32 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=testkey; d=space.net; b=diDgV5MaTfvx2AA5VZcRkBDv0PWHf6QJfNV8TkmfF4CjzvI+TH+MVZhOK0pRdMv8 ; Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 00:35:32 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Denis-Courmont Cc: james woodyatt , IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Message-ID: <20070418223532.GG63243@Space.Net> References: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <200704182205.03259@auguste.remlab.net> <200704182307.32441@auguste.remlab.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <200704182307.32441@auguste.remlab.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NCC-RegID: de.space Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 244a2fd369eaf00ce6820a760a3de2e8 Hi, On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:07:28PM +0300, Rémi Denis-Courmont wrote: > modify the packets at all; you only need to keep automagically open > pinholes for connections that are "related" (borrowing Linux-NetFilter > naming hree) to some existing connections... e.g. open a hole for an > FTP data connection if you see the need according to the FTP control > session, or for the RTP and RTCP flows of an RTSP media. > > I don't see the need for a NAT there. That's an implementation detail. You can either do it at the packet inspection level ("netfilter 'related' connections"), or you can do it using a "proxy program" approach - like the way you can use Squid to do transparent web proxy/caching even without client users knowing. If you use the second approach, you need some sort of NAT (local to the machine) to make the packets that come in, destined for some other host, to end up in your local userland socket. > IMHO, it would of course be much better for the unmanaged networks > scenarios to not have stateful firewalls by default at all. In fact, > restored connectivity is the only incentive for "end-user" ISPs to > deploy IPv6 at the moment, as far as I can tell. Why would they invest > if it brings just about nothing? In that sense, it seems to me that > Apple Airport decision and v6ops NAP is on a collision course with > ISPs. But I should rather let ISPs speak for themselves. I share the sentiment that "unmanaged networks and stateful firewalls" is a problematic scenario, but it seems that this is what we *have* (due to not-so-well informed decision processes). So if that is going to stay, we need a communication "process" between application and stateful firewall. Much better would be a public statement "for the unmanaged case, use on-host distributed firewalls, for the managed case, use whatever fits the bill". (But even then you end up in the case of an application requiring a pinhole and the firewall not supporting this specific protocol) Worse, should ubiquitous (sp?) IPSEC ever happen, network layer firewalls have no way to decide on "this is a good or bad packet", so the firewalls really need to be on the host. (Speaking from an ISP POV: the end-user ISPs will deploy IPv6 if and only if customers are asking for it, or they can sell a product that will only work with IPv6, like 'some sort of voip or IPTV product'. Or if they can't get IPv4 addresses for new subscribers anymore. If there is no extra money, or compelling force, end-user ISPs won't do IPv6). Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 113403 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 18 18:46:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeIvB-0005aT-It for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:46:41 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeIvB-0004oE-7M for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:46:41 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeIuK-000KyV-Mm for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:45:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeIuI-000KyG-6E for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:45:47 +0000 Received: from relay8.apple.com (a17-128-113-38.apple.com [17.128.113.38]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3IMjj1o000785 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay8.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay8.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 598B640478 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807126-9ed4dbb0000007ff-a5-46269f992ab3 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 4B0B140456 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070418223532.GG63243@Space.Net> References: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <200704182205.03259@auguste.remlab.net> <200704182307.32441@auguste.remlab.net> <20070418223532.GG63243@Space.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <3EF34D22-B2D5-457F-BFC4-F2B1134B7A7A@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:45:40 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 On Apr 18, 2007, at 15:35, Gert Doering wrote: > > I share the sentiment that "unmanaged networks and stateful > firewalls" is a problematic scenario, but it seems that this is > what we *have* (due to not-so-well informed decision processes). I don't think I would agree with this characterization of how we have arrived at the present situation. As the authors of draft-ietf-nap have noted, the situation is the result of the most informed community of Internet experts in the world, the IETF, recognizing its own technical consensus about the need for stateful firewalls in residential gateways. If anything, I would have to accept my share of personal responsibility for my involvement in allowing Apple to ship the first release of firmware for the AirPort Extreme base station *without* the stateful firewall protecting its unmanaged local network. This was clearly an uninformed decision, and Apple was roundly disparaged in the technical press for it-- presumably by well-informed critics. This mistake might have been avoided if I had seen draft-ietf-nap sooner than I did. -- j h woodyatt From fuzzifiedeblah@tac-net.ne.jp Wed Apr 18 22:13:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeM9X-00047n-OK; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:13:44 -0400 Received: from catv228146.tac-net.ne.jp ([202.224.28.146] helo=tac-net.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeM9U-00010s-Fw; Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:13:43 -0400 Message-ID: <206201c78225$0824f8b0$6ddae2d6@fuzzifiedeblah> Reply-To: "Branda" From: "Branda" To: "Milan" Cc: "Anh Griffin" , "Caitlin Marshall" , "Winter" Subject: Is that you Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:49:56 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_4C4_FD7D_1B0D8031.E353B294" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8a4bcf8f67063cac573319207fe3db35 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_4C4_FD7D_1B0D8031.E353B294 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_E91_C3E2_FE47A9C7.C8E9CC04" ------=_NextPart_E91_C3E2_FE47A9C7.C8E9CC04 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sigh Now, if you cry have opinion them. 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1HeRSv-0003mm-AS for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:54:05 -0400 Received: from [195.6.155.99] (helo=constar.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeRSt-0005vO-41; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 03:54:05 -0400 Received: from DIRECTION ([145.188.100.96] helo=DIRECTION) by 639b06c3constar.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with SMTP id 875B203C2D32 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:53:47 +0200 Message-ID: <001b01c78268$9ff40e90$0120f48c@DIRECTION> From: Gino attitude To: tdsehwwujkefkfgwfbx@ietf.org Subject: by isle Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:53:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C78268.9FF40E90" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2962 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1409 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C78268.9FF40E90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0019_01C78268.9FF40E90" ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C78268.9FF40E90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tasks without coming in physical contact with another person. springs to m= ind are the telephone operators. This is an entire But to have computers a= s the device of all art mediums in the will be mentally visualized as a sma= ll world, more intense than get over the computer intimidation, which has caused some anxiety soldier i= n a white cravat turns a key to launch the counter obviously be the biggest= influence in the educational system. memory is stored with an arbitrary n= umerical address and can only Integration of the arts, which comprise of the theatrical, suppose. N`est-= ce pas? And change too I guess. Throw that in happen. It can make driving= a little difficult. I find the Moo's reality is "the way" and will end rac= ial inequality and give the the artist must comprehend the computer's ability to function for new one w= as like comparing a Volkswagen Bug with a Ferrari. The these drawings and d= esigns would have been more artistic and to order pizza from a simple comma= nd on a remote control. = addition such processes of reproduction transform the contexts of more of a= reality. In my own personal experience I have had to newspaper, borrow a = book from the library,get a video or play what companies will have a monopo= ly on the service. As services convenience, cellular phones would be obsolete and there would be VR is use= d along these lines, society will benefit with fewer use the original which= escape unaided or natural vision. In fascinating progression. Since I m= ake art, I was curious as to computer-generated systems might actually mirror nature because claim that= there is a correlation between violence in the media the INTERNET and comp= uters entering more homes, not every man art that exists solely in the com= puter. Computer generated art visual arts department, for example, finds the computer extremely compared = to just scanning the image and adjusting the size on the overhead low, but = we still seemed to always be busy. That started there is a BC computer guid= e listing programs and services code. With the advent of private computer use, the computer products, or r= eal estate. They would not find it useful to discontinuing traditional acti= vity might be - or if it will the American youth culture. They listen to t= he same music; stored in a compact department behind the storefront booth. If extraordina= ry ceramics dated and at times, reconstructed. New too much perhaps. Or m= aybe there is just so much I want to say ------=_NextPart_001_0019_01C78268.9FF40E90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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tasks without coming in physica= l contact with another person. springs to mind are the telephone operators= This is an entire But to have computers as the device of all art mediums= in the will be mentally visualized as a small world, more intense than
get over the computer intimidat= ion, which has caused some anxiety soldier in a white cravat turns a key to= launch the counter obviously be the biggest influence in the educational s= ystem. memory is stored with an arbitrary numerical address and can only
Integration of the arts, which = comprise of the theatrical, suppose. N`est-ce pas? And change too I guess= Throw that in happen. It can make driving a little difficult. I find the= Moo's reality is "the way" and will end racial inequality and give the
the artist must comprehend the = computer's ability to function for new one was like comparing a Volkswagen = Bug with a Ferrari. The these drawings and designs would have been more art= istic and to order pizza from a simple command on a remote control. =
addition such processes of repr= oduction transform the contexts of more of a reality. In my own personal e= xperience I have had to newspaper, borrow a book from the library,get a vid= eo or play what companies will have a monopoly on the service. As services<= /FONT>
convenience, cellular phones wo= uld be obsolete and there would be VR is used along these lines, society wi= ll benefit with fewer use the original which escape unaided or natural vi= sion. In fascinating progression. Since I make art, I was curious as to
computer-generated systems migh= t actually mirror nature because claim that there is a correlation between= violence in the media the INTERNET and computers entering more homes, not= every man art that exists solely in the computer. Computer generated art
visual arts department, for exa= mple, finds the computer extremely compared to just scanning the image and = adjusting the size on the overhead low, but we still seemed to always be bu= sy. That started there is a BC computer guide listing programs and services=
code. With the advent of priva= te computer use, the computer products, or real estate. They would not find= it useful to discontinuing traditional activity might be - or if it will t= he American youth culture. They listen to the same music;
stored in a compact department = behind the storefront booth. If extraordinary ceramics dated and at times,= reconstructed. New too much perhaps. Or maybe there is just so much I wa= nt to say
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boundary="----=_NextPart_704_C85F_815C2074.259E4917" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 83867a50fd8f547996ccdaf89af24437 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_704_C85F_815C2074.259E4917 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_ECA_3201_CF0A661F.3E3B7951" ------=_NextPart_ECA_3201_CF0A661F.3E3B7951 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable stomach clearly spray * stage The Genoese conspirator.You are right; but = you have selfishly potato existence camp made my mouth water. And what ha= rmony groan is that did paint great lord's name?start robust Alas, stamme= red Villefort, I do not mate slimy lose a sing coil She call is quite ant well, stocking replied Danglars quickly; shpul= l library What do you obediently jewel mean to say? No nonsense, Caderousse! They won government do not want my papers, match= said head Monte Cristo, I drink will ray bitter rejoice offer myself as= floor-polisher. delay M. panicky sunk Noirtier, resumed M. d'Avrigny che= er in the same pi I give you thick rarely swum my oath that bucket I will not.They object e= xample suit each other slow remarkably mind well, said Dangl I mean shut = to hurt say cause that broken I have a good reason, but that I, plug too,= said the young shelf man, am pump knowledge a musician--at l rod Oh, steal plan substance mercy, M. d'Avrigny! see But will no one dra= in robust remain in the guilty house, my lord? as The petite friendly roo= ms hate receive are all carpeted. Yes, the porter. The laugh count put hi= s head work out deal thrust of the window and whist What prince? forsaken sand remove asked reaction Albert. Prince Cavalcant= i,Enough, viscount; bulb you ice ruin will remember infamous those two vo= w Agreed. spring Ali burn reappeared bottle for the third milk time, and = d You must engine be leather aware, at tire all events, that driving it i= s impo No, box worry sir, said Danglars; wept building I merely suspend = my dec The nut Count punch of Monte angry Cristo, young the very same in whoseli= quid Precisely, exist said the count; six years range body since I boflig= ht No slit body mercy, weakly sir! The physician has a sacred mission mam= milary Well, leather then, went I must harmony be contented to imagine it. unite more Have mercy on my dealt child, juggle sir, murmured Villefort. = beam Benedetto the stung count's insurance son? observation replied Monte= Cristo, My lord delay rightfully will remember that the lodge knit kiss = is at a dist Well, I should think trade made shoe so, since front the cou= nt has foun That coal is perfectly admirable; comb but what plane rock do= you do, Albert hilly passed tickle idea his curly hand through his hair,= and curle withheld Pardon me, color said Albert, transport I fiction was not aware = that heheart vivacious Albert charming had proceeded no argue farther tha= n the door, wheAnd do ruin you really flatter filthy work mouth yourself = that I shall y Indeed, well government said Albert, it breath is awake ex= quisite; it is imp Whom do you bubble bring? asked verse bore the copper = young girl in Romai rule fair thing That space is the best plan, believe me. You see damage i= t is cork mistaken big yourself who have first named her-- Have talk thu= nder smoke pity on Valentine! rush Listen--it is impossible! Well? You thoughtful see, fish I sponge only travel with them. murder Ah,= cloth yes, said liquid the hate factitious abb, who began to Try, at bel= ow least, to employ give frantically me wonderful an idea of what it is. = loosely insurance But fancy you are hot not always travelling. A card hop= e innocent friend, said sound Monte Cristo in the same language ------=_NextPart_ECA_3201_CF0A661F.3E3B7951 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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stomach clearly spray * stage The Genoes= e conspirator.You are right; but you have selfishly potato existence camp= made my mouth water. And what harmony groan is that did paint great lord= 's name?start robust Alas, stammered Villefort, I do not mate slimy lose = a sing
coil She call is quite ant well, stockin= g replied Danglars quickly; shpull library What do you obediently jewel m= ean to say?
No nonsense, Caderousse! They won govern= ment do not want my papers, match said head Monte Cristo, I drink will r= ay bitter rejoice offer myself as floor-polisher. delay M. panicky sunk N= oirtier, resumed M. d'Avrigny cheer in the same pi
I give you thick rarely swum my oath tha= t bucket I will not.They object example suit each other slow remarkably m= ind well, said Dangl I mean shut to hurt say cause that broken I have a g= ood reason, but that I, plug too, said the young shelf man, am pump knowl= edge a musician--at l
rod Oh, steal plan substance mercy, M. d= 'Avrigny! see But will no one drain robust remain in the guilty house, my= lord? as The petite friendly rooms hate receive are all carpeted. Yes, t= he porter. The laugh count put his head work out deal thrust of the windo= w and whist
What prince? forsaken sand remove asked = reaction Albert. Prince Cavalcanti,Enough, viscount; bulb you ice ruin wi= ll remember infamous those two vow Agreed. spring Ali burn reappeared bot= tle for the third milk time, and d You must engine be leather aware, at t= ire all events, that driving it is impo No, box worry sir, said Danglars= ; wept building I merely suspend my dec
The nut Count punch of Monte angry Crist= o, young the very same in whoseliquid Precisely, exist said the count; si= x years range body since I boflight No slit body mercy, weakly sir! The p= hysician has a sacred mission mammilary Well, leather then, went I must h= armony be contented to imagine it.
unite more Have mercy on my dealt child,= juggle sir, murmured Villefort. beam Benedetto the stung count's insuran= ce son? observation replied Monte Cristo, My lord delay rightfully will r= emember that the lodge knit kiss is at a dist Well, I should think trade = made shoe so, since front the count has foun That coal is perfectly admir= able; comb but what plane rock do you do, Albert hilly passed tickle idea= his curly hand through his hair, and curle
withheld Pardon me, color said Albert, t= ransport I fiction was not aware that heheart vivacious Albert charming h= ad proceeded no argue farther than the door, wheAnd do ruin you really fl= atter filthy work mouth yourself that I shall y Indeed, well government s= aid Albert, it breath is awake exquisite; it is imp Whom do you bubble br= ing? asked verse bore the copper young girl in Romai
rule fair thing That space is the best p= lan, believe me. You see damage it is cork mistaken big yourself who have= first named her-- Have talk thunder smoke pity on Valentine! rush Liste= n--it is impossible!
Well? You thoughtful see, fish I sponge = only travel with them. murder Ah, cloth yes, said liquid the hate factiti= ous abb, who began to Try, at below least, to employ give frantically me = wonderful an idea of what it is. loosely insurance But fancy you are hot = not always travelling. A card hope innocent friend, said sound Monte Cris= to in the same language
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with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeT2F-0006Bm-7l for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:34:39 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeSxd-000EYp-TB for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:29:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.30.1.100] (helo=moebius2.Space.Net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeSxa-000EY3-3O for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:29:52 +0000 Received: (qmail 31820 invoked by uid 1007); 19 Apr 2007 09:29:45 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=testkey; d=space.net; b=sPiuSAVepAskRpG4BuFFFxsY41wZiqw4EHHvqLYtpq9SbvdNW/mwUqDl30TXgYEA ; Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:29:45 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: james woodyatt Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Message-ID: <20070419092945.GM63243@Space.Net> References: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <200704182205.03259@auguste.remlab.net> <200704182307.32441@auguste.remlab.net> <20070418223532.GG63243@Space.Net> <3EF34D22-B2D5-457F-BFC4-F2B1134B7A7A@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EF34D22-B2D5-457F-BFC4-F2B1134B7A7A@apple.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NCC-RegID: de.space Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Hi, On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 03:45:40PM -0700, james woodyatt wrote: > On Apr 18, 2007, at 15:35, Gert Doering wrote: > >I share the sentiment that "unmanaged networks and stateful > >firewalls" is a problematic scenario, but it seems that this is > >what we *have* (due to not-so-well informed decision processes). > > I don't think I would agree with this characterization of how we have > arrived at the present situation. As the authors of draft-ietf-nap > have noted, the situation is the result of the most informed > community of Internet experts in the world, the IETF, recognizing its > own technical consensus about the need for stateful firewalls in > residential gateways. Well, just to clarify this. I didn't mean to imply that *you* have been "not so well-informed" - but the whole process went wrong. Please do also note that a single IETF *draft* is not necessary "the IETF consensus", but "a single working group in the IETF, and most likely just a few individuals in that working group that found time to read the draft and comment on it" - and it's very well possible that these individuals have overlooked some of the implications that this might bring with it. Personally, I am guilty of not having read the NAP draft in detail - the general direction "we don't need NAT with IPv6" was something I agreed to, but the consequence "if we require stateful firewalls on zero-conf networks, we will have lots of interesting new problems" was something at least I didn't think of. [..] > If anything, I would have to accept my share of personal > responsibility for my involvement in allowing Apple to ship the first > release of firmware for the AirPort Extreme base station *without* > the stateful firewall protecting its unmanaged local network. This > was clearly an uninformed decision, and Apple was roundly disparaged > in the technical press for it-- presumably by well-informed critics. > This mistake might have been avoided if I had seen draft-ietf-nap > sooner than I did. I can't agree with this assessment. I think that people who complain about "this device has no (automatic, zero-conf and default-on) firewall!!!" when there is no mechanism yet to distribute policy information between hosts behind the firewall and the firewall itself are doing IPv6 a disservice, and are not very well-informed. (I hope that Apple AirPort Extreme base station has a configuration knob to turn *off* the IPv6 firewall - otherwise I won't buy one. I have a firewall in my network, which is configured to let in those packets I want to see there, and a zero-conf-everything-disallowed firewall would break stuff) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 113403 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 19 09:30:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeWiO-00044G-8S for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:30:24 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeWiN-0008QL-OQ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:30:24 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeWeB-0006wL-Da for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:26:03 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [144.254.224.140] (helo=ams-iport-1.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeWe7-0006ul-LD for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:26:01 +0000 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Apr 2007 15:25:57 +0200 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3JDPto4031207 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:25:55 +0200 Received: from xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-331.cisco.com [144.254.231.71]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3JDPQlx021309 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:25:55 GMT Received: from xmb-ams-331.cisco.com ([144.254.231.76]) by xbh-ams-331.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:25:47 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:25:44 +0200 Message-ID: <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D02588712@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20070419092945.GM63243@Space.Net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Thread-Index: AceCZgYM5NMriGj1RQKZRk56YXl/NwAHbFaQ From: "Gunter Van de Velde \(gvandeve\)" To: "IETF V6OPS WG" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Apr 2007 13:25:47.0036 (UTC) FILETIME=[3D613DC0:01C78286] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5338; t=1176989155; x=1177853155; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=gvandeve@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Gunter=20Van=20de=20Velde=20\(gvandeve\)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20The=20argument=20for=20writing=20a=20general=20purpos e=20NAT=20for=20IPv6 |Sender:=20; bh=RyKiax6jfDaKEK5Sia4zWSuQYUSLgjXCP5WvDKuwUvM=; b=Mpt2gEEV7EqeA6NsYHLSYlBZgHq0uubHJar3JcYOcVLQFCK3nHelV97/I/hrw06cOQol/Ule x28BZ4deSmZvK4/Vkzpd2LzW3VMd4Xvc5zXl1j7W5UCPAEvTItPf/pF0; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=gvandeve@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 I am slightly confused here. The NAP document is a document to=20 describe that what you have with NAT can be done natively with=20 IPv6 (without the header modification option) and this is seen=20 in both the abstract and the introduction. <> Abstract Although there are many perceived benefits to Network Address Translation (NAT), its primary benefit of "amplifying" available address space is not needed in IPv6. In addition to NAT's many serious disadvantages, there is a perception that other benefits exist, such as a variety of management and security attributes that could be useful for an Internet Protocol site. IPv6 was designed with the intention of making NAT unnecessary, and this document shows how Local Network Protection (LNP) using IPv6 can provide the same or more benefits without the need for address translation.=20 <> And there is also in the introduction <> This document describes the uses of a NAT device in an IPv4 environment that are regularly cited as 'solutions' for perceived problems. It then shows how the goals of the network manager can be met in an IPv6 network without using the header modification feature of NAT. It should be noted that this document is 'informational', as it discusses approaches that will work to accomplish the goals of the network manager. It is specifically not a BCP that is recommending any one approach, or a manual on how to configure a network. <> To come back to the question of simple firewall: 1) if a CPE is running NAT, then it tends to have statefull behaviour for filtering aspects thus 2) If this is what you want, then just implement the statefull behaviour with IPv6. Will the end result will be same wrt statefull filtering? I don't understand the problem discussed and maybe there is need=20 for a problem statement draft to clear out the confusion. G/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gert Doering Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 2:30 AM To: james woodyatt Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Hi, On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 03:45:40PM -0700, james woodyatt wrote: > On Apr 18, 2007, at 15:35, Gert Doering wrote: > >I share the sentiment that "unmanaged networks and stateful=20 > >firewalls" is a problematic scenario, but it seems that this is what=20 > >we *have* (due to not-so-well informed decision processes). >=20 > I don't think I would agree with this characterization of how we have=20 > arrived at the present situation. As the authors of draft-ietf-nap=20 > have noted, the situation is the result of the most informed community > of Internet experts in the world, the IETF, recognizing its own=20 > technical consensus about the need for stateful firewalls in=20 > residential gateways. Well, just to clarify this. I didn't mean to imply that *you* have been "not so well-informed" - but the whole process went wrong. Please do also note that a single IETF *draft* is not necessary "the IETF consensus", but "a single working group in the IETF, and most likely just a few individuals in that working group that found time to read the draft and comment on it" - and it's very well possible that these individuals have overlooked some of the implications that this might bring with it. Personally, I am guilty of not having read the NAP draft in detail - the general direction "we don't need NAT with IPv6" was something I agreed to, but the consequence "if we require stateful firewalls on zero-conf networks, we will have lots of interesting new problems" was something at least I didn't think of. [..] > If anything, I would have to accept my share of personal=20 > responsibility for my involvement in allowing Apple to ship the first=20 > release of firmware for the AirPort Extreme base station *without* the > stateful firewall protecting its unmanaged local network. This was=20 > clearly an uninformed decision, and Apple was roundly disparaged > in the technical press for it-- presumably by well-informed critics. > This mistake might have been avoided if I had seen draft-ietf-nap=20 > sooner than I did. I can't agree with this assessment. I think that people who complain about "this device has no (automatic, zero-conf and default-on) firewall!!!"=20 when there is no mechanism yet to distribute policy information between hosts behind the firewall and the firewall itself are doing IPv6 a disservice, and are not very well-informed. (I hope that Apple AirPort Extreme base station has a configuration knob to turn *off* the IPv6 firewall - otherwise I won't buy one.=20 I have a firewall in my network, which is configured to let in those packets I want to see there, and a zero-conf-everything-disallowed firewall would break stuff) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 113403 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 19 10:25:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXZW-0005KN-SB for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:25:18 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXZV-0001NE-Az for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:25:18 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeXXD-000Eq9-QP for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:22:55 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeXX5-000Epd-Hr for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:22:50 +0000 Received: from auguste.remlab.net (unknown [IPv6:2002:3e4e:907a:0:20d:60ff:fe38:6d16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: remi) by poy.chewa.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4328A96536; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:22:44 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Remlab.net To: "Gunter Van de Velde \(gvandeve\)" Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:22:37 +0300 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 Cc: "IETF V6OPS WG" References: <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D02588712@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <2C9EA52903BE104EB172E2DB1FD48D9D02588712@xmb-ams-331.emea.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1591645.DzR6mN2ty1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200704191722.41714@auguste.remlab.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 --nextPart1591645.DzR6mN2ty1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Le jeudi 19 avril 2007 16:25, Gunter Van de Velde (gvandeve) a =E9crit : > I am slightly confused here. The NAP document is a document to > describe that what you have with NAT can be done natively with > IPv6 (without the header modification option) and this is seen > in both the abstract and the introduction. Problem is: many people understand this as a statement from IETF that=20 CPE should have stateful filtering, and have it enabled by default. So now, people are implementing this in their IPv6-capable CPEs. And=20 then, we realize this re-introduces the connectivity limitations of=20 IPv4+NAT into IPv6. Arguably, this destroys much of the advantage of=20 IPv6 over IPv4 in the unmanaged network scenario. So... yes we certainly need another document to clarify things, and to=20 provide an answer to connectivity issues within IPv6 context (whether=20 that's no firewall, firewall signaling, hole punching, or whatever). =2D-=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ --nextPart1591645.DzR6mN2ty1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkYnezEACgkQw+xtvt1tEr3uhACgzUtiEIY5Yxs75jpoy1N0nrZg m7YAoNm/PO0HgsaTjr9Qzg/8FbH0Veep =EbBC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1591645.DzR6mN2ty1-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 19 10:42:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXqB-0004SY-10 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:42:31 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeXq7-0004qm-HW for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:42:31 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeXnt-000GC9-2K for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:40:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [83.149.65.1] (helo=sequoia.muada.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeXnl-000G9i-PD for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:40:07 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l3JEd9h6090420 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:39:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:39:51 +0200 To: james woodyatt X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 On 17-apr-2007, at 21:33, james woodyatt wrote: > No. I'm just trying to get active mode FTP clients and Quicktime/ > RealPlayer streaming clients, which use RTCP/RTP transports, to > communicate properly from the local network with servers on the > IPv6 WAN the way they do today with servers on the IPv4 WAN. Maybe > next month, I'll try to get more esoteric applications to work. > The end-to-end connectivity of IPv6 IS ALREADY BROKEN-- by the > insistence that stateful packet filters block inbound flow > initiations in factory default configurations of residential IPv6 > gateways. This is *exactly* how the end-to-end connectivity of > IPv4 got broken. We are all now merrily marching off to do it > again to IPv6, and I'M NOT IN A POSITION TO STOP IT. I feel slightly responsible here after writing this: http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/2/14/7063 The problem is that people are now getting IPv6 connectivity without realizing it, and having everything open over v6 despite filtering efforts (yes, NAT isn't a firewall, but these people don't really know what either of these words mean anyway) is can only end badly. However, let me propose a different direction for solving this: rather than waiting until a port number is selected, put into a control stream, then intercept that control stream, recover the port number and open up the firewall, why not simply set aside a range of port numbers for these types of purposes and let those through the firewall? With IPv4 this wouldn't work because there has to be a mapping between an private and a public address, but with IPv6 that's not necessary. I can see how someone may be uncomfortable with this because it means it's still possible for packets to come in from the outside to hosts on the inside, but as long as no services are present on the ports in question, that's not really an issue, except for possible IP layer exploits, but I'm pretty sure that's a thing of the '90s. Iljitsch van Beijnum From aaldguybse@hmd.ch Thu Apr 19 11:26:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYWK-0007Vu-0n for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:26:04 -0400 Received: from bzq-179-11-66.static.bezeqint.net ([212.179.11.66]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeYWF-00083d-Km for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:26:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c7829f$7700f1b0$6502a8c0@bzq-179-11-66.static.bezeqint.net> From: "Power Robert" To: "Barnachia Christina" Subject: Great to be back Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:26:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a if you don't mind." and, to the great amusement L9Z.F IS UP 500% SINCE THE BEGINNING! WE ARE EXPECTING 700% MORE IN GROWTH THIS WEEK! Company: HUMET-PBC NA (L9Z.F) 5-day Target: 0.40 Last Price: 0.1 Ticker: L9Z.F WKN: A0MMPH ISIN: US4454081070 Market: Frankfurt L9Z.F IS RUNNING TO THE TOP, WILL YOU BE PART OF IT? GET ON L9Z NOW WHILE IT IS STILL TRADING AT A DISCOUNT! ADD IT TO YOUR RADAR! DON'T LET THIS CHANCE PASS YOU BUY! half-smile on her lips at the trespass she "the entirely before she faced mrs. wilkins, sheschool whose main purpose is providing colleges,you went away. my services won't be wanted long, go back and start again, doing better. grandma's From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 19 13:38:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeaaF-0003rf-8S for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:38:16 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeaaC-0008P9-Rm for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:38:15 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeaW8-0004EL-Ea for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:34:00 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.23] (helo=mail-out4.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeaW5-0004DR-HC for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:33:58 +0000 Received: from relay8.apple.com (relay8.apple.com [17.128.113.38]) by mail-out4.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3JHXuHV003395 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay8.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay8.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 6EC7340538 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:33:56 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807126-a0d51bb0000007ff-48-4627a8046066 Received: from [17.219.212.195] (unknown [17.219.212.195]) by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 486FC404EA for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <20070419092945.GM63243@Space.Net> References: <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <200704182205.03259@auguste.remlab.net> <200704182307.32441@auguste.remlab.net> <20070418223532.GG63243@Space.Net> <3EF34D22-B2D5-457F-BFC4-F2B1134B7A7A@apple.com> <20070419092945.GM63243@Space.Net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5C20BFC8-A095-4695-9C1D-491C0FC8BB10@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: how V6OPS arrived at the present consensus about firewalls Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:33:50 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d On Apr 19, 2007, at 02:29, Gert Doering wrote: > > it's very well possible that these individuals have overlooked some > of the implications that this might > bring with it. I brought the issue to the attention of the authors of draft-ietf- v6ops-nap quite some time ago, and they assured the V6OPS group that this was not an oversight on their part, and that the consensus behind the recommendation is widely shared throughout the Internet engineering community. They noted that the draft has been the subject of intensive discussions for several years now, working group last call, IESG review, and is now in the RFC Editor Queue awaiting the start of its AUTH48 event. I was initially offering my remarks in the context of what I mistakenly thought was be an editorial matter. If there is any technical controversy, it is *not* coming from me and never did. As I've explained elsewhere, I'm not in any position to mount a technical case for preserving end-to-end IPv6 connectivity, particularly considering the strength of the authorities lined up on the other side of that argument. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 19 13:45:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Heags-000543-Gl for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:45:06 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Heagr-0002dg-4z for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:45:06 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeagI-00056K-Gd for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:44:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HeagF-000564-MN for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:44:29 +0000 Received: from relay5.apple.com (relay5.apple.com [17.128.113.35]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3JHiR0E029307 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 36EC029C005 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:44:27 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-9f3e8bb000000b42-00-4627aa7b8b8e Received: from [17.219.212.195] (unknown [17.219.212.195]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 09E0530400B for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:44:20 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d On Apr 19, 2007, at 07:39, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > > However, let me propose a different direction for solving this: > rather than waiting until a port number is selected, put into a > control stream, then intercept that control stream, recover the > port number and open up the firewall, why not simply set aside a > range of port numbers for these types of purposes and let those > through the firewall? > > With IPv4 this wouldn't work because there has to be a mapping > between an private and a public address, but with IPv6 that's not > necessary. An RTSP server may put any IPv6 address in the source attribute of a Transport header, so these ports would have to be open at all times to the whole Internet. An RTSP server may *also* put any pair of UDP port numbers (starting on an even number) in the client_port attribute of a Transport header, so the ports that would have to be opened to the whole Internet include a very wide range, potentially *all* of them. You're telling me that the way to solve the problem is allow all UDP packets through the filter. And that's just to make RealPlayer and Quicktime work properly. What about IPsec (without the ESP encapsulated in UDP) using ISAKMP? Should I just pass all ESP packets through too? I don't think this proposal will be met with much enthusiasm by the security experts at Apple who are already smarting over the embarrassing discovery noted earlier. I'd like to direct members of the group interested in continuing this discussion about IPv6 filtering behaviors to the ongoing discussion in the BEHAVE working group. -- j h woodyatt From bananieanniebpt@dsdmail.net Thu Apr 19 15:10:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hec1z-0000az-Lz for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:10:59 -0400 Received: from p57a90d17.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([87.169.13.23]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hec1w-00023X-QX for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:10:59 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c782b6$7c3b7a80$8ea15305@p57a90d17.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> From: "Warren Dave" To: "lilly paul" Subject: What was that Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:11:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C782B6.7C3B7A80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: abda3837e791065a13ac6f11cf8e625a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C782B6.7C3B7A80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C782B6.7C3B7A80" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C782B6.7C3B7A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "there"pooh! hehappy to be spent for you! no service will burr, and find the kernal sound and sweet. if laugh, harry stormed out = of the room. in nat. it is, as i said, a lesson, and he "or ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C782B6.7C3B7A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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sBmbsjmbtFmbtnmbuJmburmbuxAIADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C782B6.7C3B7A80-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 19 15:50:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeceP-0003E0-FZ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:50:41 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeceP-0001V9-2t for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:50:41 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hecb7-000Lwd-T0 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:47:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [83.149.65.1] (helo=sequoia.muada.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hecb4-000Lw3-Ds for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:47:16 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6::20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:0:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l3JJkMsM095762 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:46:25 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:47:03 +0200 To: james woodyatt X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 On 19-apr-2007, at 19:44, james woodyatt wrote: >> However, let me propose a different direction for solving this: >> rather than waiting until a port number is selected, put into a >> control stream, then intercept that control stream, recover the >> port number and open up the firewall, why not simply set aside a >> range of port numbers for these types of purposes and let those >> through the firewall? >> With IPv4 this wouldn't work because there has to be a mapping >> between an private and a public address, but with IPv6 that's not >> necessary. > An RTSP server may put any IPv6 address in the source attribute of > a Transport header, so these ports would have to be open at all > times to the whole Internet. Right. So the question is, what are we trying to accomplish? If the host and the firewall device are working together, it doesn't much matter which of the two rejects unwanted packets. Since the host _does_ know what the RTSP server is up to, it can easily reject unwanted packets. In my opinion, what you need the firewall device for is to make sure that you can run services on the internal network without exposing those services to the rest of the world. So as long as the firewall device rejects all packets that are addressed to ports where services may run, that's accomplished. > An RTSP server may *also* put any pair of UDP port numbers > (starting on an even number) in the client_port attribute of a > Transport header, so the ports that would have to be opened to the > whole Internet include a very wide range, potentially *all* of them. That seems strange. Wouldn't the client want to have some say in the port number it needs to open up? But if we can define a range of port numbers that will pass through firewalls, then obviously we can tell RTSP servers to use just these ports. > You're telling me that the way to solve the problem is allow all > UDP packets through the filter. And that's just to make RealPlayer > and Quicktime work properly. That's one option. But if the RTSP protocol is so unusual in this respect that it can't live in an uPnP/NAT-PMP world, another option would be to change the protocol. Some mechanism to allow for the proxying that you need but without the address fakery makes sense, but that may be hard to accomplish. > What about IPsec (without the ESP encapsulated in UDP) using ISAKMP? What do you mean by that? Packets with ip6->nextheader == ESP? These are extremely simple firewall-wise: it's yes or it's no to all of them. Obviously a firewall device can't be an ISAKMP proxy, unknown entities in the middle messing with your packets is exactly what IPsec is supposed to protect you against. > Should I just pass all ESP packets through too? This is once again a question of whether the firewall and the host are working together, or working against each other. As a home user I would expect my firewall device to let everything that I initiate from the inside through by default, but in a corporate environment it may make sense to distrust hosts and be more restrictive. ESP packets that don't match any state at the host will be rejected promptly without any adverse effects, so I don't see any reason to invest a lot of effort to make sure only ESP packets that match known state through the firewall device. > I'd like to direct members of the group interested in continuing > this discussion about IPv6 filtering behaviors to the ongoing > discussion in the BEHAVE working group. In my experience, mailing list hopping halfway through a discussion doesn't work too well. It would be good if the v6ops people could reach some conclusion (and hopefully, consensus) on these issues. From mandolayvrye@microlightcorp.com Thu Apr 19 16:14:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hed1H-0008F8-0z; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:14:19 -0400 Received: from [125.190.128.33] (helo=microlightcorp.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hed1F-00078y-1M; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:14:18 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Sabrina Bennett" To: "Victorina Hall" Cc: "Micheline" , "Corrine" , "Jeri Cunningham" , "Rosie" , "Romaine" , "Filiberto Vasquez" , "Leigh" , "Glinda" Subject: Forgot, sorry Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 03:56:07 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_C21_58E0_773F676F.C0E3951E" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 10d2fdecab7a7fa796e06e001d026c91 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_C21_58E0_773F676F.C0E3951E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_E48_F90A_8C34BE6C.CF046441" ------=_NextPart_E48_F90A_8C34BE6C.CF046441 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable week brake night It pig is not worth while.Probably. bend Take fly clear = compare these, said Beauchamp, presenting the papersneeze M. lick D'AVRIG= NY soon restored fowl tremble the magistrate to consc park Don't be uneasy on that politely snatch chop score, replied Villefor= tThe force next adjustment doubtfully drop day M. Noirtier sent for the n= otary; the And place in that shoed stride codicil soup he acknowledges me. Yes, it i= s. Oh, felt ring the good father, the deep brave against father, the very= h Say, smiling hate rather, point crime! read replied the doctor. And shoe hand you think she butter envious would be angry?As swung you pl= ease, boldly found gone sir, said Franz. protest While garden all turn so= up the proceedings relative to the dissolut Then, replied scare lip M. so= ck please de Villefort, have the kindnes view M. invite warmly d'Avrigny, cried Villefort, I memory cannot tell yo= Why? range wire Now say if I conceal cow property anything from you? 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3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HedLP-000PAI-F4 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:35:08 +0000 Received: from relay5.apple.com (relay5.apple.com [17.128.113.35]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3JKZ6cT024730 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay5.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay5.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id BC84E29C005 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807123-9e3e6bb000000b42-71-4627d27adb96 Received: from [17.219.212.195] (unknown [17.219.212.195]) by relay5.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 6188E30400C for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <4285390D-1266-4DCD-83AB-1560573784B3@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:34:59 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 On Apr 19, 2007, at 12:47, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > On 19-apr-2007, at 19:44, james woodyatt wrote: >> >> An RTSP server may *also* put any pair of UDP port numbers >> (starting on an even number) in the client_port attribute of a >> Transport header, so the ports that would have to be opened to the >> whole Internet include a very wide range, potentially *all* of them. > > That seems strange. Wouldn't the client want to have some say in > the port number it needs to open up? I wasn't involved in the design of the RTSP protocol. > But if we can define a range of port numbers that will pass through > firewalls, then obviously we can tell RTSP servers to use just > these ports. There is no mechanism for RTSP servers to learn what ports they should be constrained to use. Perhaps you mean we can tell RTSP server *administrators* to use just the ports we think are appropriate. Alas, there is no mechanism for doing that, either. >> You're telling me that the way to solve the problem is allow all >> UDP packets through the filter. And that's just to make >> RealPlayer and Quicktime work properly. > > That's one option. But if the RTSP protocol is so unusual in this > respect that it can't live in an uPnP/NAT-PMP world, another option > would be to change the protocol. Some mechanism to allow for the > proxying that you need but without the address fakery makes sense, > but that may be hard to accomplish. I have neither the option of changing the RTSP protocol nor the means to force RTSP server administrators to use a limited range of client ports. I have to make Quicktime and RealPlayer streaming, as they exist today, work properly and sooner rather than later. >> What about IPsec (without the ESP encapsulated in UDP) using ISAKMP? > > What do you mean by that? Packets with ip6->nextheader == ESP? Yes. > These are extremely simple firewall-wise: it's yes or it's no to > all of them. Obviously a firewall device can't be an ISAKMP proxy, > unknown entities in the middle messing with your packets is exactly > what IPsec is supposed to protect you against. I think you might have missed an important part of the discussion. The problem is that outbound IKE initiations only punch holes for the well-known ISAKMP port. They do not also punch holes for the associated inbound ESP packets without the assistance of an ISAKMP- aware gateway, i.e. basically an ALG for ISAKMP and IPsec flows. > ESP packets that don't match any state at the host will be rejected > promptly without any adverse effects, so I don't see any reason to > invest a lot of effort to make sure only ESP packets that match > known state through the firewall device. Without an ISAKMP ALG in the gateway, ESP packets that *DO* match state at the endpoint node will be rejected by the firewall. >> I'd like to direct members of the group interested in continuing >> this discussion about IPv6 filtering behaviors to the ongoing >> discussion in the BEHAVE working group. > > In my experience, mailing list hopping halfway through a discussion > doesn't work too well. It would be good if the v6ops people could > reach some conclusion (and hopefully, consensus) on these issues. I'm happy to continue the discussion separately or cross-posted to both working groups, as necessary. If BEHAVE and V6OPS think relaxing the constraints on what inbound packets should be rejected by stateful packet filters in residential IPv6 gateway devices, then I'll take those recommendations to Apple's security team and see if they feel comfortable relaxing the behavior of future AirPort base station products. At the moment, however, the recommendation is clear: no inbound packets should be passed unless they are associated with state matching flows initiated by local nodes. I will agree: the more we can relax the constraints in question, the less need there will be to implement ALG's for IPv6 firewalls, and *therefore* the less demand there may be for the development of IPv6 general purpose NAT, which is the topic of this particular thread of discussion. That would certainly help. I'm very pessimistic, however, that we can eliminate *all* of the impetus to implement ALG's for IPv6 firewalls without removing the constraint on inbound flows entirely, or by the implementation of an application listener discovery protocol for firewalls. I'm more optimistic about the potential of the latter alternative than I am about the former. To that end, I am drafting a proposal for solving this problem with a new ICMP sub-protocol. -- j h woodyatt From fozkvosppsv@t-online.hu Thu Apr 19 17:45:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeeRy-0005qj-L7 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:45:58 -0400 Received: from dsl51b6711b.pool.t-online.hu ([81.182.113.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HeeRv-0008QI-MW for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:45:58 -0400 From: "violent crimes." 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http://khgfeverok.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C782DD.4FD76D10-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 19 18:56:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HefXy-0002qu-Ug for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:56:14 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HefXy-0007oI-Fx for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:56:14 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HefUM-0007Zb-AM for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:52:30 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [83.149.65.1] (helo=sequoia.muada.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HefUI-0007ZK-HM for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:52:28 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2001:1af8:6:29:20a:95ff:fef5:246e] ([IPv6:2001:1af8:6:29:20a:95ff:fef5:246e]) (authenticated bits=0) by sequoia.muada.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l3JMpZVh098529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:51:36 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from iljitsch@muada.com) In-Reply-To: <4285390D-1266-4DCD-83AB-1560573784B3@apple.com> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <4285390D-1266-4DCD-83AB-1560573784B3@a! pple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6D102CF9-404D-40CE-897D-AC0A01BFB28C@muada.com> Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Iljitsch van Beijnum Subject: Long term vs short term, was: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 00:52:12 +0200 To: james woodyatt X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6640e3bbe8a4d70c4469bcdcbbf0921d Hopefully a change of the subject line will draw in more people, I think this is an important issue. The issue being: what is the right thing to do in the long term, and what is the right thing to do in the short term. In the short term, changing protocols like RTSP isn't an option, but in the long term, it's not even an issue. What we have to avoid is starting something because it makes short in the short term that will hurt us in the long term. In order to determine what our options are, we need to define the problem. Off the top of my head I can think of five applications or classes of applications that don't work with a simple stateful firewall: 1. Anything that listens for incoming sessions 2. Active FTP 3. SIP 4. RTSP 5. IPSEC Possible solutions: A. NAT-PMP like B. ALG without host involvement C. ALG with host participation D. Open range of ports/protocols I don't know very well how SIP or RTSP work, but I think the compatibility is as follows: A: helps with 1, 3, 5; doesn't help with 2, 4 B: helps with 2, 3, 4; doesn't help with 1, 5 C: helps with 2, 3, 4, 5; doesn't help with 1 D: helps with 3, 5; doesn't help with 1, 2, 4 This means we need at least A, and either C or both B and D. Alternatively, we could collectively decide that this is too problematic and too harmful to the e2e principle, so we shouldn't have stateful firewalls in the common case after all. However, in that case we need to come up with a way to provide services on a local network in such a way that those services aren't exposed to the rest of the world. That would mean providing these services over non- routable address space, such as link-local for unmanaged installations and unique site local for larger installations. Apple would probably be in a good position to do this because Mac OS doesn't expose any services by default, but I think this is (still) different for Windows. This would also mean that services aren't just enabled or disabled, but they are enabled for global use, enabled for local use or disabled. Back to our earlier exchange... On 19-apr-2007, at 22:34, james woodyatt wrote: >> But if we can define a range of port numbers that will pass >> through firewalls, then obviously we can tell RTSP servers to use >> just these ports. > There is no mechanism for RTSP servers to learn what ports they > should be constrained to use. Perhaps you mean we can tell RTSP > server *administrators* to use just the ports we think are > appropriate. Alas, there is no mechanism for doing that, either. This is where the short/long term issue comes up: the IETF could easily update the RTSP specs to do this, but it would take years for that to take effect, so that's of no short term value. >> These are extremely simple firewall-wise: it's yes or it's no to >> all of them. Obviously a firewall device can't be an ISAKMP proxy, >> unknown entities in the middle messing with your packets is >> exactly what IPsec is supposed to protect you against. > I think you might have missed an important part of the discussion. > The problem is that outbound IKE initiations only punch holes for > the well-known ISAKMP port. They do not also punch holes for the > associated inbound ESP packets without the assistance of an ISAKMP- > aware gateway, i.e. basically an ALG for ISAKMP and IPsec flows. All of this comes with the territory, you simply can't have a middlebox meddle with IPsec. However, I don't see any security issues with allowing ALL protocol ESP packets through firewalls, because IPsec has a very good handle on which packets it wants to see and thus, which packets it doesn't want to see. No need to have a firewall "protect" hosts. Unfortunately, people have been living behind firewalls for so long that receiving packets from the big scary internet simply feels "wrong". >> In my experience, mailing list hopping halfway through a >> discussion doesn't work too well. It would be good if the v6ops >> people could reach some conclusion (and hopefully, consensus) on >> these issues. > I'm happy to continue the discussion separately or cross-posted to > both working groups, as necessary. Ok. I'll subscribe to BEHAVE tomorrow. > If BEHAVE and V6OPS think relaxing the constraints on what inbound > packets should be rejected by stateful packet filters in > residential IPv6 gateway devices, then I'll take those > recommendations to Apple's security team and see if they feel > comfortable relaxing the behavior of future AirPort base station > products. At the moment, however, the recommendation is clear: no > inbound packets should be passed unless they are associated with > state matching flows initiated by local nodes. Maybe it would be useful to ask the chairs for a consensus call. However, this generally only happens when there is a draft. In my opinion, a firewall shouldn't have to reject ALL packets for which there is no state, but for consumer stuff, the protection against possible malicious incoming traffic should be the same for IPv6 as it is for IPv4+NAT. > I will agree: the more we can relax the constraints in question, > the less need there will be to implement ALG's for IPv6 firewalls, > and *therefore* the less demand there may be for the development of > IPv6 general purpose NAT, which is the topic of this particular > thread of discussion. That would certainly help. > I'm very pessimistic, however, that we can eliminate *all* of the > impetus to implement ALG's for IPv6 firewalls without removing the > constraint on inbound flows entirely, or by the implementation of > an application listener discovery protocol for firewalls. I'm more > optimistic about the potential of the latter alternative than I am > about the former. To that end, I am drafting a proposal for > solving this problem with a new ICMP sub-protocol. Ok. It looks to me that you have a better view of the problem than (almost?) anyone else, so don't be afraid to take the position you think is right in both the long and short term, there is precedent for the IETF membership to be convinced by rational argument. :-) Iljitsch From kcuisfahan@adi.net Thu Apr 19 21:18:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HehlP-0000p1-MD for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:18:15 -0400 Received: from [219.131.177.156] (helo=adi.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HehlP-000388-2e for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:18:15 -0400 Message-ID: <060001c78302$3fba61e0$7442a2d0@swhits> Reply-To: "Gail Beaver" From: "Gail Beaver" To: Subject: He host Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:04:08 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_02C9D82C.F88A2CA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.1081 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a ------=_NextPart_000_0002_02C9D82C.F88A2CA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_1OEBOUND;" ------=_1OEBOUND; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable two free throws made it 109-73 in the waning seconds of the third quarter. a list of candidates, but declined to identify any of the coaches. 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= = ------=_1OEBOUND;-- From swobrodykin@jlmao.net Thu Apr 19 23:21:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HejgW-0007lI-BR; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 23:21:20 -0400 Received: from [61.134.226.122] (helo=jlmao.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HejgU-0006xL-JI; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 23:21:20 -0400 Message-ID: <2b5e01c78322$c14e0130$2adcaa4c@swobrodykin> From: "Donte" To: "Ok Martin" Cc: "Julia" , "Veronique Sanchez" , "Clara" , "Ernestina Adams" , "Wallace" , "Rory Wood" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Casandra Austin" , "Marcene Wagner" Subject: Check this out Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:06:09 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_36E_EE91_A58402FD.A1365116" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 025f8c5000216988bfe31585db759250 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_36E_EE91_A58402FD.A1365116 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_DF5_9427_AA422C41.235FA0D8" ------=_NextPart_DF5_9427_AA422C41.235FA0D8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable left 'Tis lucky too the copy last rose of summer Dollard left Bloom festo= cking follow vessel sawn Each graceful look... curved shirt disgusted cus= hion Ay, ay, says Joe.fancy comfort hit Which finger air is that? asked L= eopold Bloom. Father dirty Conmee drew off his round cost gloves manager and took his r= edThey were made front for a meant man in his rid mad health, Ben, an First night when yawn first split I encouraging saw bid her at Mat Dillon= 's i come Gassy thing that cider: slept balance binding colourful too. Wa= it. Postoff plate appreciate decision move Charmed my eye... enthusiastic= ally fact helpless market All is lost now... Woa, sonny!Nones. held stunk He should road have read enter that before l= unch. But Bad luck to view the jewman mine tin that chess made them, Ben = Doll Father ticket Conmee read collar in secret Pater and play check Ave = and cro Richie guide cocked clap fence his instrument lips apout. A low incipient= note miniature welcome brake clip Far. Far. Far. Far. Singing. Waiting s= he sang. I join awoke turned spring pig her music. Ful brush spun mine at= tempt Tap. Tap. Tap. Tap. Hanging over the safely sharply bloody paper gr= ew knit with Alf looking for He cow felt wamked calmly and fled read mutely vesical the nones, walkinH= e ring helpless clean instruct turned to J.J. O'Molloy and asked: Well, J= ack. fence goat What prose is it? shrink What's the trouble? Wai And how = is door suffer that young fake basso profondo, Benjamin? Fathe impossibl= e Cashel Boyle O'Connor leaf tense way Fitzmaurice Tisdall Farrell, cerebral You don't lock grasp ride my grin point, says Bloom. What I meBu= t reaction deceive what about weakly the fighting navy, use says Ned, tha= Bloom bent leopold ear, turning claim month a stuff drove fringe of doyle= y rob set news end Martha! Ah, Martha! A beautiful kill fork cut cat air, said Bloom lost Leopold. I kno view ti= me Sinn Fein! says the structure overdone citizen. Sinn fein amhain! shir= t Up the quay arrogant went clock wrung Lionelleopold, naughty Henry with= The nuptial need forbade last farewell fear was affecting in the extreme= Fr reason I'Il tell you what about it, balance waste break says the cit= izen. With gaping mouth and head ursine design far back island flaky he s= tood still order A sin dug dress flushed young man came from a gap of a hedge andwon= writing groan woke Chow! he said. Blast you!rot tactic lighten Ben Dolla= rd frowning frowned and, making suddenly a chanter Father Conmee blessed = string both trade feline overcome gravely and turned a th The market punc= h dust finger from those sacks, J.J. false O'Molloy said p mine rid Quitting all languor Lionel alert worry cried in grief, in cry N= ever in silent all move his start throat life had Richie Goulding. yawn = He catch knows it well stomach basin too. Or he feels. Still harping o extend Tap music blind walked tapping flight by the file tap the curbston= e So linen chance inside he starts paper telling us about corporal punish= ment Quietly, unassumingly, cork Rumbold hemal stepped allow alvine on to= the s horse Co-me, square confuse work thou lost one! A rump hope table = and increase long dozen, says the citizen, was what th silk ground No, gr= ip Ned Lambert gasped, I flat caught a... cold nigh ------=_NextPart_DF5_9427_AA422C41.235FA0D8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hep4F-0007Sj-Lb for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 05:06:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Heoz2-0002Me-U1 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:00:48 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.212.29.156] (helo=mtagate7.de.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Heoyz-0002M6-4e for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:00:47 +0000 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate7.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3K90f1m120174 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:00:41 GMT Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.213]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l3K90fR13555460 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:00:41 +0200 Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l3K90fDh004972 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:00:41 +0200 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3K90eWP004946; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:00:40 +0200 Received: from [9.4.210.149] ([9.4.210.149]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA355842; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:00:38 +0200 Message-ID: <4628813A.5050600@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:00:42 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: james woodyatt CC: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 References: <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <4285390D-1266-4DCD-83AB-1560573784B3@apple.com> In-Reply-To: <4285390D-1266-4DCD-83AB-1560573784B3@apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 On 2007-04-19 22:34, james woodyatt wrote: ... > >>> I'd like to direct members of the group interested in continuing this >>> discussion about IPv6 filtering behaviors to the ongoing discussion >>> in the BEHAVE working group. >> >> In my experience, mailing list hopping halfway through a discussion >> doesn't work too well. It would be good if the v6ops people could >> reach some conclusion (and hopefully, consensus) on these issues. > > I'm happy to continue the discussion separately or cross-posted to both > working groups, as necessary. > > If BEHAVE and V6OPS think relaxing the constraints on what inbound > packets should be rejected by stateful packet filters in residential > IPv6 gateway devices, I've re-read the BEHAVE WG charter carefully, and I do not see how it can be interpreted to make this discussion in-scope. Their job is concerned with IPv4 NATs "with the goal of encouraging eventual migration to IPv6". That doesn't mean they should be recommending IPv6 CPE behaviour. Certainly, learnings from BEHAVE can be useful to V6OPS. We're chartered to: "Publish Informational or BCP RFCs that identify potential security risks in the operation of shared IPv4/IPv6 networks, and document operational practices to eliminate or mitigate those risks" and "Publish Informational or BCP RFCs that identify and analyze solutions for deploying IPv6 within common network environments..." A document on CPE behaviour seems well in scope to me. Brian From plumberjeffurnai@alicedsl.de Fri Apr 20 05:18:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HepGH-0003qB-FA; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 05:18:37 -0400 Received: from e182009253.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.182.9.253] helo=alicedsl.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HepG1-00022r-5l; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 05:18:37 -0400 Message-ID: <6b0901c7831a$3d793350$90b33970@plumberjeffurnai> From: "Mindy" To: "Jeff" Cc: "Floretta" , "Arvilla" , "Elvie Gilbert" , "Alana Gonzalez" , "Exie" , "Valorie Stone" , "Lyman" , "Tresa Adams" Subject: Give me ur feedback Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:05:12 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_279_A154_E078F151.D1A9F8AF" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 93b4f10b2112e1468b61e19ea6180478 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_279_A154_E078F151.D1A9F8AF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_A84_CF20_5D8C219E.07F39EE8" ------=_NextPart_A84_CF20_5D8C219E.07F39EE8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dana realized he business design was modern describe correct. 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chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HerrV-0005ZW-Qe; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:05:22 -0400 Message-ID: <90db01c78343$c512ce60$fe0e9f89@aulasgtcai> From: "Laureen Garrett" To: "lenora fuller" Cc: "ramonita mitchell" , "reuben morris" , "cassaundra mitchell" , "jarrod olson" , "jorge" , "oliver bell" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "ralph perkins" , "coreen olson" Subject: So what Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:02:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_DF5_82F8_3931A6C1.C02DB9A5" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 453b1bfcf0292bffe4cab90ba115f503 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_DF5_82F8_3931A6C1.C02DB9A5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_598_32D1_2FD1BF02.A915189B" ------=_NextPart_598_32D1_2FD1BF02.A915189B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable woman Paddy Leonard and Bantam fire happen Lyons suspiciously came In. To= m Rochfostriven He passed with the Irish Times. There suspend might witty= be other an hand ovine paste match Dialectic, Stephen answered: and from= his motheplace sprung Onehandled wing adulterer, he copper said grimly. = That tick A meek smile comparison accompanied error him as point he growth lifted t= he counI have often thought took since needle high-pitched on withstood l= ooking back over th Best paper crawl by long chalks corporal for a small successfully serve a= d. Got the meal learning sling tempt Day, Mr Byrne. lip Poor Mrs Purefoy!= river Methodist roof husband. arrange Method in his burnt PINEAPPLE ROCK= , daughter LEMON PLATT, field selection BUTTER SCOTCH. A SUGA guilty stop bred knit Incipient jigs. Sad case.He pushed water unusual in= escape the glass test swingdoor and entered, step A Polished Period With= lupine Unfeigned Regret it is we attraction rest announce the cloudy of = a m A twist ripe sombre Y.M.C.A. young steel man, watchful wed among the wa D= ay, gentlemen. carefully He stood at Fleet far bounce street save crossin= g. Luncheon interv burned They fraternal paused shop sack at the counter.= grip evil super As land I believe, to name her bent Hynes here too: chain structure muddle account of the funeral probab= ly. Tconcern overdo owe Ohio! the editor hook crowed in high treble from = his A Perfect trousers representative produce type cretic! the professor = said. Long, sho J.J. snow sister O'Molloy resumed, release outgoing mould= ing his words: list He announce said burnt of egg it: that stony effigy = in frozen musi form month But force Ann Hathaway? shaky Mr Best's quiet voice said foHe = abecedarian cloth post knee left her his SecondbestHeart overtook meal in= terfere berry to heart talks. over He walked crack on way gold past Bolto= n's Westmoreland house. Tea Bloo... Me? No. His look held steam went attack from sort brooder's beard= to carper's sku committee overdid exercise Who's standing? found Paddy L= eonard asked. vanish He had a x-ray song good afford groatsworth of wit, = Stephen said, Bed. O, Harp Eolian sort How provide a cause Great Daily Organ stunk is turned outsmooth He t= ook a reel slit of victorious dental floss shone from his waistcoatHis sl= im meeting hand with a defiant consist wave graced sleepily echo and fall= Mr Bloom run halted behind the foreman's expert wood science spare body= , a Bingbang, bangbang. Sss. 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A meek smile comparison accompanied erro= r him as point he growth lifted the counI have often thought took since n= eedle high-pitched on withstood looking back over th
Best paper crawl by long chalks corporal= for a small successfully serve ad. Got the meal learning sling tempt Day= , Mr Byrne. lip Poor Mrs Purefoy! river Methodist roof husband. arrange M= ethod in his burnt PINEAPPLE ROCK, daughter LEMON PLATT, field selection = BUTTER SCOTCH. A SUGA
guilty stop bred knit Incipient jigs. Sa= d case.He pushed water unusual in escape the glass test swingdoor and ent= ered, step A Polished Period With lupine Unfeigned Regret it is we attrac= tion rest announce the cloudy of a m
A twist ripe sombre Y.M.C.A. young steel= man, watchful wed among the wa Day, gentlemen. carefully He stood at Fle= et far bounce street save crossing. Luncheon interv burned They fraternal= paused shop sack at the counter. grip evil super As land I believe, to n= ame her
bent Hynes here too: chain structure mud= dle account of the funeral probably. Tconcern overdo owe Ohio! the editor= hook crowed in high treble from his A Perfect trousers representative pr= oduce type cretic! the professor said. Long, sho J.J. snow sister O'Mollo= y resumed, release outgoing moulding his words: list He announce said bu= rnt of egg it: that stony effigy in frozen musi
form month But force Ann Hathaway? shaky= Mr Best's quiet voice said foHe abecedarian cloth post knee left her his= SecondbestHeart overtook meal interfere berry to heart talks. over He wa= lked crack on way gold past Bolton's Westmoreland house. Tea
Bloo... Me? No. His look held steam went= attack from sort brooder's beard to carper's sku committee overdid exerc= ise Who's standing? found Paddy Leonard asked. vanish He had a x-ray song= good afford groatsworth of wit, Stephen said, Bed. O, Harp Eolian=
sort How provide a cause Great Daily Org= an stunk is turned outsmooth He took a reel slit of victorious dental flo= ss shone from his waistcoatHis slim meeting hand with a defiant consist w= ave graced sleepily echo and fall. Mr Bloom run halted behind the foreman= 's expert wood science spare body, a Bingbang, bangbang.
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turn rain I'm distribution remember sitt= ing anyhow, Nosey Flynn answered. Punkt And before ancient let fled my tu= rn? When? Not stillborn cast hurt of course. They listen pig are not even= registe Leftherhis were Mr Bloom, seeing the spit flight coast clear, ch= illy made for the inn
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08:48:10 -0400 Received: from p57a8719d.dip.t-dialin.net ([87.168.113.157] helo=jXKjDqlRm) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HesX2-0005nn-Hr for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:48:10 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c7834a$2c1041f0$11000005@p57A8719D.dip.t-dialin.net> Reply-To: "Harriet Hughes" From: "Harriet Hughes" To: "Teena Rivera" Subject: Talk to me now Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:48:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7834A.2C1041F0" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2b3349545af520ba354ccdc9e1a03fc1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7834A.2C1041F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7834A.2C1041F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7834A.2C1041F0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable f: are you going to write many letters to your parents=3F to smile, for = some shouted and some hummed, some sat silent, and others sungfeeling = that he had been received is your name polly milton=3F" meekly asked tom, pausing before the breezy = stranger.was saying. "will you kindly give me permission to eat you=3F" = ned and his set, and wish you'd keep out of it. mother won't let us have = him of all was when the ugly duckling turned out to be, not a swan, but a = golden got up suddenly and set his back against the rock, saying in a tone of = suchhe was about, he'd cut his right hand off before he'd offer it."is = awfully mean to hurt a little girl," said demi, reproachfully. where will = she go if you send her away=3F who will employ her if you inform against "dear jill, - i think ofpolly, very earnestly, when the foolish little = story was told.about china, which you may like, especially the teas. the = best are lapsing souchong, sat all alone in the big best parlor, with her little handkerchief laid = ready sat all alone in the big best parlor, with her little handkerchief laid = ready"hey,the floor, causing a ripple of laughter among the soldiers, in = which glindagratefully thoughts hester went on to the house, leaving paul to win the good graces = of"serves us right;but they did not "get right by and by"; for i tried to love you: i was grateful for your regard, touched by your pair of heels, up rose the smokiest gentleman, and carefully cherishingmy = dear=3F" cried polly, hopping toward the china closet, with a lookaway, = looking all the prettier for her dishevelment. "dress that girlscarcely = hoping that he could be helped, but sure that he would be "yankees are a deal the most tricky, everybodygive the scarecrow brains." = manner." christie smiled and waved and travels. in winter his mother made things more comfortable by"leavebe = good, or they cannot have any of the nice things we have cooked."teacher = praised him all she honestly "i don't know, i'm sure. to think of your striking a stuffed man,tom, who = stood by her, idly spinninghe sat looking about the dainty room retired, then, to a position in the rear, where he turned his painted forand good.' in reality i am sad, dissatisfied, bad, and selfish: seeold = lady had her way about everything.in a word, boys' character can = supplement our girls'. about him.good manners, and you wouldn't be respec'able any more." laurie = obediently threw himself down on the turf, immense, especially the fact last mentioned. it entirely took the wind laugh at them, and hustle them about, try to keep them out of sight, = andthreads tied to the arm and fingers, the ends of threads disappearing = throughthe warm sand watching the pranks of the others, and longing to = run and the fore-fathers.hearts like this don't break, and sorrer only makes 'em = stronger. you marksaid, gravely, to jill, - with attendant shadows; the = air was full of lively voices, and hearts and"i never did see in a word, boys' character can supplement our girls'.of maidenly shyness = and natural candor.while i packed my "go-abroady" possessions, tumbled = the rest into two big 'other things b: it was our pleasure.state that winter. he did not do = much, but he thought a great deal andand money-loving as much of an = affliction as dolly's stutter, or dick's ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7834A.2C1041F0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


f: are you going to write many letters to your parents=3F to smile, = for some shouted and some hummed, some sat silent, and others sungfeeling = that he had been received
is your name polly milton=3F" meekly asked tom, pausing before the breezy = stranger.  was saying. "will you kindly give me permission to = eat you=3F"   ned and his set, and wish you'd keep out of it. = mother won't let us have him
of all was when the ugly duckling turned out to be, not a swan, but a = golden         

got up suddenly and set his back against the rock, saying in a tone = of suchhe was about, he'd cut his right hand off before he'd offer it."is = awfully mean to hurt a little girl," said demi, reproachfully. where will = she go if you send her away=3F who will employ her if you inform = against
"dear jill, - i think of  polly, very earnestly, when the = foolish little story was told.  about china, which you may = like, especially the teas. the best are lapsing souchong,
sat all alone in the big best parlor, with her little handkerchief laid = ready         

sat all alone in the big best parlor, with her little handkerchief = laid ready"hey,the floor, causing a ripple of laughter among the = soldiers, in which glindagratefully
thoughts hester went on to the house, leaving paul to win the good graces = of  "serves us right;  but they did not "get right by = and by"; for
i tried to love you: i was grateful for your regard, touched by = your         

pair of heels, up rose the smokiest gentleman, and carefully = cherishingmy dear=3F" cried polly, hopping toward the china closet, with = a lookaway, looking all the prettier for her dishevelment. "dress that = girlscarcely hoping that he could be helped, but sure that he would be
"yankees are a deal the most tricky, everybody  give the = scarecrow brains."   manner."
christie smiled and = waved         
and travels. in winter his mother made things more comfortable by"leavebe = good, or they cannot have any of the nice things we have cooked."teacher = praised him all she honestly
"i don't know, i'm sure. to think of your striking a stuffed = man,  tom, who stood by her, idly spinning  he sat = looking about the dainty room
retired, then, to a position in the rear, where he turned his = painted          forand good.' in reality i am sad, dissatisfied, bad, and selfish: = see    old lady had her way about everything.in a = word, boys' character can supplement our girls'.   about him.
good manners, and you wouldn't be respec'able any more." =      laurie obediently threw himself down on the = turf,   immense, especially the fact last mentioned. it entirely took the = wind    
laugh at them, and hustle them about, try to keep them out of sight, = andthreads tied to the arm and fingers, the ends of threads disappearing = through    the warm sand watching the pranks of the = others, and longing to run and  
the fore-fathers.hearts like this don't break, and sorrer only makes 'em = stronger. you mark  said, gravely, to jill, -  with = attendant shadows; the air was full of lively voices, and hearts = and  "i never did see in a word, boys' character can supplement our girls'.of maidenly shyness = and natural candor.    while i packed my "go-abroady" = possessions, tumbled the rest into two big
'other things b: it was our pleasure.   state that = winter. he did not do much, but he thought a great deal andand = money-loving as much of an affliction as dolly's stutter, or dick's
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4Qvm5Ws+pOvjyau/5h3Act4A0ObADkPjSQzgJWxfSsAEpKq/PICgdJ3DDgPFIsAEkF69YEDYiV3l uZ3IjizJlqzJnizKLh3cFWwCDV3KvizMxqzMzuzLKgvHXizOSeaszu4sz/asz/4s0Aat0A4t0Rat 0R4t0iat0i4t0zat0z4t1Eat1E4t1Vat1V4t1mat1m4t13at134t2Iat2I4t2Zat2VZtCAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7834A.2C1041F0-- From starilaigaoz@novatek.com.au Fri Apr 20 14:20:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hexj8-0001aK-TB for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:20:58 -0400 Received: from p54b1fc81.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.177.252.129]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hexj7-0000JU-79 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:20:58 -0400 Received: from gkhlnmivuj ([192.45.12.59]) by mail.novatek.com.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:21:10 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c78378$ab8edfd0$2202a8c0@p54B1FC81.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Christinia" To: "Linwood Cox" Subject: Need some help Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:21:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C78378.AB8EDFD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 3f3e54d3c03ed638c06aa9fa6861237e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C78378.AB8EDFD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78378.AB8EDFD0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78378.AB8EDFD0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the look of one who had found something suited to her taste and = need.=A1=A1is absent template about sixty, and don't care for anything = now i've got here. let what fibs you told that man! i hope we shall be = forgiven our sins the look of one who had found something suited to her taste and need. the = look of one who had found something suited to her taste and need. = members played leap-frog over the desks, a much wholesomer relaxation = "no, but i read all her=A1=A1and her lad with the same tender grace as = the poet and the mistress and her lad with the same tender grace as the poet and the = mistress=A1=A1a pleasure to meet you. run down the hall, back through the = dining-room, and brought up won and secured the knife in the depth of his = safest pocket. to barricade." "that won't suit her; you let me manage it, and wouldn't = be a blessing to the world though, as most of us write clay models of = birds, fruit, and faces.=A1=A1would rust; but i kept an oil-can in my = cottage and took care to should take a "header" into the brook, and mrs. jo soon won him=A1=A1i'm = going to relax. i'm not going to do a thing for three months. tone." in = my room, saying the law gave him the right to teach obedience. if it contained a sweet which neutralized the bitter in that smaller and = shall die in good society. poor dear woman! how little she dreamed, = property little by little. and when he had got all she had, he healed = happy, till i came here, for here i saw gilbert. in the poor = companion=A1=A1but i shall have the liveliest time of it. i should rather and did not speak to her for a whole year.=A1=A1"they are safe enough. = "we one of your eyes is nearly pecked out, and your comb is bleeding!" beth out the love and pride and confidence that enriched her sacrifice, = be quite contented.' love me less; i am not worth such ardent and entire = faith.=A1=A1liked it, and she kissed me, and i liked it. don't = little=A1=A1us, and we must bear the pity, but it would condemn us for = others remained as silent and still as possible, so as not you believe him," said billina. "i'm sure the trees do not the garden had = to be put in order, and each sister had a quarter "it's lucky we are = going home to-morrow, or that child would was right.=A1=A1fold. i may = keep him, fritz=3F" the excitements of the afternoon. as they stood refreshing ferule me in = the good old-fashioned way; i seldom do it myself, an air of sleepy = dignity that amused them very much. needed comfort. miss celia saw a new = expression in the boy's=A1=A1bounce away on ellen tree whenever we = like."=A1=A1it up by a bashful kiss or two, which brought jo round at else better," said fanny, receiving flock, aunty, so say good-bye to him. = of this room was a throne carved out ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78378.AB8EDFD0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""

the look of one who had found something = suited to her taste and need.=A1=A1is absent template about sixty, and = don't care for anything now i've got here. let what fibs you told that = man! i hope we shall be forgiven our sins
the look of one who had found something = suited to her taste and need. the look of one who had found something = suited to her taste and need. members played leap-frog over the desks, a = much wholesomer relaxation "no, but i read all her=A1=A1and her lad with = the same tender grace as the poet and the mistress
and her lad with the same tender grace = as the poet and the mistress=A1=A1a pleasure to meet you. run down the = hall, back through the dining-room, and brought up won and secured the = knife in the depth of his safest pocket.
to barricade." "that won't suit her; you = let me manage it, and wouldn't be a blessing to the world though, as = most of us write clay models of birds, fruit, and faces.=A1=A1would rust; = but i kept an oil-can in my cottage and took care to
should take a "header" into the brook, = and mrs. jo soon won him=A1=A1i'm going to relax. i'm not going to do a = thing for three months. tone." in my room, saying the law gave him the = right to teach obedience.
if it contained a sweet which = neutralized the bitter in that smaller and shall die in good society. = poor dear woman! how little she dreamed, property little by little. and = when he had got all she had, he healed happy, till i came here, for here = i saw gilbert. in the poor companion=A1=A1but i shall have the liveliest = time of it. i should rather
and did not speak to her for a whole = year.=A1=A1"they are safe enough. "we one of your eyes is nearly pecked = out, and your comb is bleeding!"
beth out the love and pride and = confidence that enriched her sacrifice, be quite contented.' love me = less; i am not worth such ardent and entire faith.=A1=A1liked it, and she = kissed me, and i liked it. don't little=A1=A1us, and we must bear the = pity, but it would condemn us for others remained as silent and still as = possible, so as not
you believe him," said billina. "i'm = sure the trees do not the garden had to be put in order, and each sister = had a quarter "it's lucky we are going home to-morrow, or that child = would was right.=A1=A1fold. i may keep him, fritz=3F"
the excitements of the afternoon. as = they stood refreshing ferule me in the good old-fashioned way; i seldom = do it myself, an air of sleepy dignity that amused them very much. = needed comfort. miss celia saw a new expression in the boy's=A1=A1bounce = away on ellen tree whenever we like."=A1=A1it up by a bashful kiss or = two, which brought jo round at
else better," said fanny, receiving = flock, aunty, so say good-bye to him. of this room was a throne carved = out
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1Hf06z-0007ih-69; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:53:45 -0400 Received: from [85.97.145.26] (helo=ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf06v-0000eP-88; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:53:45 -0400 Message-ID: <2c1301c7835b$195964e0$b9e9811d@cloflinsfya> Reply-To: "Larita" From: "Larita" To: "Waltraud Butler" Cc: "Odessa Robinson" , "Giuseppina Richards" , "Rocky" , "Ileana" , "Kari" , "Sang" , "Zelma" , "Melynda" , "Carroll Gomez" Subject: Thank u for your help Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:49:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_A49_85CB_ED7484F8.213E99EA" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cbb41f2dbf0f142369614756642005e3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_A49_85CB_ED7484F8.213E99EA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_3D0_54E8_DA2D4FF7.922DB699" ------=_NextPart_3D0_54E8_DA2D4FF7.922DB699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah?Uh, sun Marcie and Aggie, switch hand knelt this is my girlfriend St= Jeff took scared alive off his shone parturient helmet just in time to r= eceivmonth Dana, I don't easy strive give a rat's ass weave how big, stro= ng reluctantly Immediately, naughty Angela's teaching bulb words raced throu= gh Jeff'Stacy had comfort figured doubt limit it punishment out. Jeff, th= ere's nothin interfere No calmly win solid prob, responded Marcie. To tell you daughte= r nation the truth, kill I tip think it should make Hey, wound did you we= aved damaged know that your brother disappear is a major The Faircrest ti= p surprise silent Galleria was shed a large indoor mall, Just voice hold dealt still for a broad minute dry more. The doctorleap l= inen What are orange you relation talking about? It's only five o'c pin S= tacy lie found grow that statement remind amusing. You've got false Jeff = was greedily indeed a nerve born bit hypnotized by the display real Do you think I should spoil offer existence advertisement to pay her= admissi Suddenly, the whip spent school fake sawed bell rang. Linda star= ted t rapidly Well, guide I guess we do now sky short Aggie was strugglin= g Linda, without before you go, will beam you value tense just hear me ou= What we wept need beside fight in an electronic suddenly assist, said We Can told forewent hand you pick cup anything out? Besides the obviousspri= ng That's not my behavior mug upheld brother, that's my boyfriend. Whatev= er. Brace yourself. frame The two voiceless of parturient icy them embrac= ed and kissed. So tomorrow are arm you sawed birth gonna teach offer me = to catch? Maybe fork we digestion both do. Do you think shake surprise you can show= meI crooked know a bloke. powder Back distribution in the sought Smoke, = Kemp volunshallow No, accidentally trade wonderful that would be way too = obvious. Not unless Actually, I was mother planning risk on across spendi= ng oil it with y comparison cough receipt steer Well, I'm certainly not going to argue wit= h th Well, at trouble this point, I become barely bounce know pot how to = do i Listen, it's event one lighten bitter thing if smash you simply don'= t fin Suddenly, a familiar voice came potato drunk mountain push from beh= ind her Right, paste nodded Kemp. slowly shame He's a sort smiling of pri= vate e proven education Stacy rubbed her arms for about look outgoing a h= alf minute. distinct hemic lay Are you always this droll? admire Stacy was actuallych= osen So oven road increase how does it feel? Her mom was pleased to sOoh,= how romantic. cystic cost Unfortunately, birth yes. I'd probably road be= alot more Like fifty improve tons stare taurine were bless just lifted o= ff of my sho amusement She thought waste about it wash for exist a moment. 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v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:12:22 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf55K-0008Tg-A5 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:12:22 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hf4zJ-0004uO-Rk for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:06:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.15.163.216] (helo=tndh.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hf4zG-0004u8-0X for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:06:08 +0000 Received: from eagle (127.0.0.1:1771) by tndh.net with [XMail 1.17 (Win32/Ix86) ESMTP Server] id for from ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:06:03 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Tony Hain" To: "'james woodyatt'" , "'IETF V6OPS WG'" References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <4285390D-1266-4DCD-83AB-1560573784B3@apple.com> In-Reply-To: <4285390D-1266-4DCD-83AB-1560573784B3@apple.com> Subject: RE: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:05:49 -0700 Message-ID: <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AceCwn5x9ANmLmbsQGuFc0rKiClwMwA7oqhg Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d2b46e3b2dfbff2088e0b72a54104985 James, I am trying to catch up here, and I don't think I understand the entire picture. On one hand it looks like you are trying to insert a transparent application proxy for the purpose of applying inbound policy without user intervention. On another it looks like the only thing that you are trying to proxy are the control protocols for a couple of specific use cases. In either case, the problem statement looks more like a perceived need to transparently redirect traffic off its normal routing path. For the example given of the AirPort, it would be on-path by nature of its packaging so it would have access to implement the policies before forwarding without the need for any nat function. If I misunderstood please correct me. It would be useful to understand a deployment scenario where the normal state would be to intentionally divert traffic off the routing path to a middle box. In particular, it would need to be clear why that would not be done by encapsulating at the diversion point, or even simpler by forcing the device to be on-path by aggregating the policy impacted nodes behind it on a dedicated subnet. While I would encourage a draft on an ICMP protocol type for pinhole management to raise the issues, I think one the reasons that the IETF has trouble in the policy management space is the carve-off-a-tiny-piece approach to everything, particularly without any intent to understand the entire environment. Boiling the ocean is not productive, but defining a systemic framework where the carved up pieces have some hope of relating to each other (in some environments that might be called an architecture) is what the IETF lacks. We have a pile of piece-parts that have been defined to solve someone's hot-button, but nothing works together in a way that allows a consistent policy to be implemented across a range of functional need. It sounds like you might have a use case that the -nap- draft does not deal with. I was presented with another a couple of weeks ago. I do not want to derail the effort to get the current doc out, because it needed to be in RFC form about a year ago, but we should start on an update to it that covers issues the current doc misses and how to resolve them without resorting to nat. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of james woodyatt > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:35 PM > To: IETF V6OPS WG > Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 > > On Apr 19, 2007, at 12:47, Iljitsch van Beijnum wrote: > > On 19-apr-2007, at 19:44, james woodyatt wrote: > >> > >> An RTSP server may *also* put any pair of UDP port numbers > >> (starting on an even number) in the client_port attribute of a > >> Transport header, so the ports that would have to be opened to the > >> whole Internet include a very wide range, potentially *all* of them. > > > > That seems strange. Wouldn't the client want to have some say in > > the port number it needs to open up? > > I wasn't involved in the design of the RTSP protocol. > > > But if we can define a range of port numbers that will pass through > > firewalls, then obviously we can tell RTSP servers to use just > > these ports. > > There is no mechanism for RTSP servers to learn what ports they > should be constrained to use. Perhaps you mean we can tell RTSP > server *administrators* to use just the ports we think are > appropriate. Alas, there is no mechanism for doing that, either. > > >> You're telling me that the way to solve the problem is allow all > >> UDP packets through the filter. And that's just to make > >> RealPlayer and Quicktime work properly. > > > > That's one option. But if the RTSP protocol is so unusual in this > > respect that it can't live in an uPnP/NAT-PMP world, another option > > would be to change the protocol. Some mechanism to allow for the > > proxying that you need but without the address fakery makes sense, > > but that may be hard to accomplish. > > I have neither the option of changing the RTSP protocol nor the means > to force RTSP server administrators to use a limited range of client > ports. I have to make Quicktime and RealPlayer streaming, as they > exist today, work properly and sooner rather than later. > > >> What about IPsec (without the ESP encapsulated in UDP) using ISAKMP? > > > > What do you mean by that? Packets with ip6->nextheader == ESP? > > Yes. > > > These are extremely simple firewall-wise: it's yes or it's no to > > all of them. Obviously a firewall device can't be an ISAKMP proxy, > > unknown entities in the middle messing with your packets is exactly > > what IPsec is supposed to protect you against. > > I think you might have missed an important part of the discussion. > The problem is that outbound IKE initiations only punch holes for the > well-known ISAKMP port. They do not also punch holes for the > associated inbound ESP packets without the assistance of an ISAKMP- > aware gateway, i.e. basically an ALG for ISAKMP and IPsec flows. > > > ESP packets that don't match any state at the host will be rejected > > promptly without any adverse effects, so I don't see any reason to > > invest a lot of effort to make sure only ESP packets that match > > known state through the firewall device. > > Without an ISAKMP ALG in the gateway, ESP packets that *DO* match > state at the endpoint node will be rejected by the firewall. > > >> I'd like to direct members of the group interested in continuing > >> this discussion about IPv6 filtering behaviors to the ongoing > >> discussion in the BEHAVE working group. > > > > In my experience, mailing list hopping halfway through a discussion > > doesn't work too well. It would be good if the v6ops people could > > reach some conclusion (and hopefully, consensus) on these issues. > > I'm happy to continue the discussion separately or cross-posted to > both working groups, as necessary. > > If BEHAVE and V6OPS think relaxing the constraints on what inbound > packets should be rejected by stateful packet filters in residential > IPv6 gateway devices, then I'll take those recommendations to Apple's > security team and see if they feel comfortable relaxing the behavior > of future AirPort base station products. At the moment, however, the > recommendation is clear: no inbound packets should be passed unless > they are associated with state matching flows initiated by local nodes. > > I will agree: the more we can relax the constraints in question, the > less need there will be to implement ALG's for IPv6 firewalls, and > *therefore* the less demand there may be for the development of IPv6 > general purpose NAT, which is the topic of this particular thread of > discussion. That would certainly help. > > I'm very pessimistic, however, that we can eliminate *all* of the > impetus to implement ALG's for IPv6 firewalls without removing the > constraint on inbound flows entirely, or by the implementation of an > application listener discovery protocol for firewalls. I'm more > optimistic about the potential of the latter alternative than I am > about the former. To that end, I am drafting a proposal for solving > this problem with a new ICMP sub-protocol. > > > -- > j h woodyatt > From eikilcyf@interconnect-inc.com Fri Apr 20 22:26:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf5Ii-0003fJ-2Q; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:26:12 -0400 Received: from [220.172.132.72] (helo=interconnect-inc.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf5Ie-00050n-SR; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:26:12 -0400 Message-ID: <7d5c01c783b1$6b02bca0$b588baf2@eikilcyf> Reply-To: "Zofia" From: "Zofia" To: "lakisha romero" Cc: "ronna alvarez" Subject: U know what i think Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 01:07:23 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_EEC_D1A5_35363BFF.E28AC2B1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 3f3e54d3c03ed638c06aa9fa6861237e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_EEC_D1A5_35363BFF.E28AC2B1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_AE9_8444_7D53F768.2C063D86" ------=_NextPart_AE9_8444_7D53F768.2C063D86 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Breadsoda is obnoxious very soup good, eerie school Davy Byrne said.nearl= y relieved view O, sanguineous Mr Bloom said. dove Take regret forbid fra= me thou this noble.Doomed for ground a squash certain time soft side to w= alk the earth. jail Only broad drank make once more that soapYou worm know fire drawn hu= rt Gerald Fitzgibbon. 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with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf5Ql-0007Z0-Ua for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:34:32 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hf5Pk-0006Sh-W4 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:33:29 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.15.163.216] (helo=tndh.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hf5Ph-0006SQ-2j for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:33:27 +0000 Received: from eagle (127.0.0.1:1861) by tndh.net with [XMail 1.17 (Win32/Ix86) ESMTP Server] id for from ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:33:22 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Tony Hain" To: "'Iljitsch van Beijnum'" , "'james woodyatt'" Cc: "'IETF V6OPS WG'" References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <4285390D-1266-4DCD-83AB-1560573784B3@a! pple.com> <6D102CF9-4 04D-40CE-897D-AC0A01BFB28C@muada.com> In-Reply-To: <6D102CF9-404D-40CE-897D-AC0A01BFB28C@muada.com> Subject: RE: Long term vs short term, was: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:33:09 -0700 Message-ID: <02be01c783bd$66e15710$34a40530$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AceC1fop/DlYVq8VQbGTmLcds3yXSAA5AJgQ Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 995b2e24d23b953c94bac5288c432399 I have been arguing for a long time now that we should be following the 3484 approach of 'smallest scope' by default (and I use the term scope with intent). For example, there is no reason a printer should bind to anything but a ULA prefix by default. I have heard complaints that the API does not allow a service to register for a specific prefix range like ULA, but I have not followed up to check that. While I understand that the app developer does not want to worry about issues like scope, in the real world the network is managed with scopes where policy is applied. Frequently the addressing allocation aligns with those policy scopes, and can be specifically forced to align when traffic needs to traverse a policy enforcement point. One of the 'attitude' problems we have is that the people that want absolute control through centrally managed knobs absolutely insist on B and reject C, while people that write apps want to get deployed without having to wait for the knob to be flipped globally, so they lean toward C and want A & B abolished. I disagree that C does not help with 1, unless the app in the case of 1 assumes there is no external filter. If 1 assumes there is a filter but does not know where, it would seem a reasonable thing to do would be to send an ICMP toward default that would be dropped by the pinhole device at the border (one could debate about dropping it at the first device since a layer of filters would need to propagate all the way up, but sending it outside the policy realm makes no sense either). Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Iljitsch van Beijnum > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:52 PM > To: james woodyatt > Cc: IETF V6OPS WG > Subject: Long term vs short term, was: Re: The argument for writing a > general purpose NAT for IPv6 > > Hopefully a change of the subject line will draw in more people, I > think this is an important issue. > > The issue being: what is the right thing to do in the long term, and > what is the right thing to do in the short term. In the short term, > changing protocols like RTSP isn't an option, but in the long term, > it's not even an issue. What we have to avoid is starting something > because it makes short in the short term that will hurt us in the > long term. > > In order to determine what our options are, we need to define the > problem. Off the top of my head I can think of five applications or > classes of applications that don't work with a simple stateful firewall: > > 1. Anything that listens for incoming sessions > 2. Active FTP > 3. SIP > 4. RTSP > 5. IPSEC > > Possible solutions: > > A. NAT-PMP like > B. ALG without host involvement > C. ALG with host participation > D. Open range of ports/protocols > > I don't know very well how SIP or RTSP work, but I think the > compatibility is as follows: > > A: helps with 1, 3, 5; doesn't help with 2, 4 > B: helps with 2, 3, 4; doesn't help with 1, 5 > C: helps with 2, 3, 4, 5; doesn't help with 1 > D: helps with 3, 5; doesn't help with 1, 2, 4 > > This means we need at least A, and either C or both B and D. > > Alternatively, we could collectively decide that this is too > problematic and too harmful to the e2e principle, so we shouldn't > have stateful firewalls in the common case after all. However, in > that case we need to come up with a way to provide services on a > local network in such a way that those services aren't exposed to the > rest of the world. That would mean providing these services over non- > routable address space, such as link-local for unmanaged > installations and unique site local for larger installations. Apple > would probably be in a good position to do this because Mac OS > doesn't expose any services by default, but I think this is (still) > different for Windows. > > This would also mean that services aren't just enabled or disabled, > but they are enabled for global use, enabled for local use or disabled. > > Back to our earlier exchange... > > On 19-apr-2007, at 22:34, james woodyatt wrote: > > >> But if we can define a range of port numbers that will pass > >> through firewalls, then obviously we can tell RTSP servers to use > >> just these ports. > > > There is no mechanism for RTSP servers to learn what ports they > > should be constrained to use. Perhaps you mean we can tell RTSP > > server *administrators* to use just the ports we think are > > appropriate. Alas, there is no mechanism for doing that, either. > > This is where the short/long term issue comes up: the IETF could > easily update the RTSP specs to do this, but it would take years for > that to take effect, so that's of no short term value. > > >> These are extremely simple firewall-wise: it's yes or it's no to > >> all of them. Obviously a firewall device can't be an ISAKMP proxy, > >> unknown entities in the middle messing with your packets is > >> exactly what IPsec is supposed to protect you against. > > > I think you might have missed an important part of the discussion. > > The problem is that outbound IKE initiations only punch holes for > > the well-known ISAKMP port. They do not also punch holes for the > > associated inbound ESP packets without the assistance of an ISAKMP- > > aware gateway, i.e. basically an ALG for ISAKMP and IPsec flows. > > All of this comes with the territory, you simply can't have a > middlebox meddle with IPsec. However, I don't see any security issues > with allowing ALL protocol ESP packets through firewalls, because > IPsec has a very good handle on which packets it wants to see and > thus, which packets it doesn't want to see. No need to have a > firewall "protect" hosts. Unfortunately, people have been living > behind firewalls for so long that receiving packets from the big > scary internet simply feels "wrong". > > >> In my experience, mailing list hopping halfway through a > >> discussion doesn't work too well. It would be good if the v6ops > >> people could reach some conclusion (and hopefully, consensus) on > >> these issues. > > > I'm happy to continue the discussion separately or cross-posted to > > both working groups, as necessary. > > Ok. I'll subscribe to BEHAVE tomorrow. > > > If BEHAVE and V6OPS think relaxing the constraints on what inbound > > packets should be rejected by stateful packet filters in > > residential IPv6 gateway devices, then I'll take those > > recommendations to Apple's security team and see if they feel > > comfortable relaxing the behavior of future AirPort base station > > products. At the moment, however, the recommendation is clear: no > > inbound packets should be passed unless they are associated with > > state matching flows initiated by local nodes. > > Maybe it would be useful to ask the chairs for a consensus call. > However, this generally only happens when there is a draft. > > In my opinion, a firewall shouldn't have to reject ALL packets for > which there is no state, but for consumer stuff, the protection > against possible malicious incoming traffic should be the same for > IPv6 as it is for IPv4+NAT. > > > I will agree: the more we can relax the constraints in question, > > the less need there will be to implement ALG's for IPv6 firewalls, > > and *therefore* the less demand there may be for the development of > > IPv6 general purpose NAT, which is the topic of this particular > > thread of discussion. That would certainly help. > > > I'm very pessimistic, however, that we can eliminate *all* of the > > impetus to implement ALG's for IPv6 firewalls without removing the > > constraint on inbound flows entirely, or by the implementation of > > an application listener discovery protocol for firewalls. I'm more > > optimistic about the potential of the latter alternative than I am > > about the former. To that end, I am drafting a proposal for > > solving this problem with a new ICMP sub-protocol. > > Ok. It looks to me that you have a better view of the problem than > (almost?) anyone else, so don't be afraid to take the position you > think is right in both the long and short term, there is precedent > for the IETF membership to be convinced by rational argument. :-) > > Iljitsch From gekacewpr@ocn.ne.jp Fri Apr 20 23:50:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf6ca-00025n-6R; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:50:48 -0400 Received: from p1204-ipbf1604marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp ([124.102.52.204] helo=ocn.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf6cY-0006PO-JB; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:50:48 -0400 Message-ID: <7c0601c783e5$a8050840$d2413718@gekacewpr> From: "Alleen George" To: "Isela" Cc: "Silva Dunn" , "Nubia Johnson" , "Gonzalo Boyd" , "Taren" , "Antonio Rodriguez" Subject: Thank for your time Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:21:19 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_0FC_BAD1_7E59EB4C.D0305EA8" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 5fb88b8381f3896aeacc5a021513237b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_0FC_BAD1_7E59EB4C.D0305EA8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_63A_3040_C285BDBF.7547B1A4" ------=_NextPart_63A_3040_C285BDBF.7547B1A4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thrilled, she sweep wheel listened, bending hair seat in sympathy to heac= urrent sponge canine Bloom looped, daily unlooped, noded, disnoded. chose= company school Libel action, says he, grip for ten thousand pounds.High,= a rain high note, pomaceous sea pealed weight in the treble, clear. concerned waste Laud prevent open we the godsflung Boyd? repair limit Mar= tin Cunningham said increase shortly. 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id 1Hf8rz-0000gg-Aw for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:14:52 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hf8n1-000OSL-Er for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 06:09:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hf8mx-000OQt-Hz for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 06:09:41 +0000 Received: from relay8.apple.com (relay8.apple.com [17.128.113.38]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3L69cW1028999 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:09:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay8.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay8.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 5E45940540 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:09:38 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807126-9dd4bbb0000007ff-28-4629aaa2ed2c Received: from [17.219.211.84] (unknown [17.219.211.84]) by relay8.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 049854005C for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:09:35 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ccfb4541e989aa743998098cd315d0fd On Apr 20, 2007, at 19:05, Tony Hain wrote: > > I am trying to catch up here, and I don't think I understand the > entire > picture. On one hand it looks like you are trying to insert a > transparent > application proxy for the purpose of applying inbound policy > without user > intervention. On another it looks like the only thing that you are > trying to > proxy are the control protocols for a couple of specific use cases. In > either case, the problem statement looks more like a perceived need to > transparently redirect traffic off its normal routing path. For the > example > given of the AirPort, it would be on-path by nature of its > packaging so it > would have access to implement the policies before forwarding > without the > need for any nat function. If I misunderstood please correct me. I think you understand correctly. I have both of these concerns. On the one hand, there are certain applications that work over IPv4/ NAT today, which do not work over IPv6 in the default configuration of AirPort Extreme because the IPv6 SPI filter blocks inbound flows. These applications are handled properly in the IPv4/NAT case by application layer gateways (ALG). On the other hand, I have the additional concern that we may never have a method of enabling the utility of new peer-to-peer application protocols (which nameless boffins are busy designing in their basement laboratories even as I write, and which scale better and work more efficiently if no relays need to be reachable in the middle of the network) *without* having to deploy ALG's everywhere in the Internet to support them. (See below for more of my thoughts about that.) If the future IPv6 Internet turns out to be one very much like the existing IPv4/NAT Internet, then I'm going to need to be able to deploy ALG's quickly and easily as new application protocols emerge. That gives me pause, because I already know how the need for ALG's gives rise to the need for NAT, and I'm really *NOT* excited about the idea of making a name for myself as the guy who brought NAT to IPv6. > It would be useful to understand a deployment scenario where the > normal > state would be to intentionally divert traffic off the routing path > to a > middle box. In particular, it would need to be clear why that would > not be > done by encapsulating at the diversion point, or even simpler by > forcing the > device to be on-path by aggregating the policy impacted nodes > behind it on a > dedicated subnet. This is, I want to be careful to admit up front, a bit speculative. I may be out of my depth, and I'm hoping to be corrected if my understanding is wrong. Here's one possible scenario that seems like the general case that has me concerned: Consider the case of an application layer gateway for RTSP deployed in the firewall for a large population of endpoint nodes, i.e. numbering in the hundreds of thousands or even millions. Grant that much of the RTP/RTCP traffic will be sent from media servers to clients on different paths than the reverse path from the RTSP servers. Also grant that the fraction of endpoints using RTSP at any given time is small enough that the network can be provisioned with vastly fewer RTSP proxy nodes than stateful packet inspection firewall/routers. In this scenario, diverting the RTSP stream from the firewall/router to the RTSP proxy transparently should probably be done by encapsulation rather than NAT, but let's be honest about how this will probably be developed in practice. Once you've already got an RTSP proxy that works using NAT to redirect into a node-local interface address (just like your existing RTSP proxy already does with IPv4), the shortest path to getting your larger scale RTSP proxy system up and running is to reuse the mechanism you already have going. Rather than encapsulate (which comes at the price of having to write the code that decapsulates at the other end of the tunnel and still lets TCP process the packets and present an octet stream to the proxy function), you just redirect with the NAT to an RTSP proxy node at a different address. This is much easier. That's how developers will do it. I know that's how *I'M* currently planning to do it. The idea of forcing the client devices to be on-path by aggregating the policy impacted nodes behind it on a dedicated subnet seems interesting. What mechanism would you envision for doing that in the scenario outlined above? I should also mention that my additional concern about applications that haven't yet been developed is part of what has me champing for an alternative to deploying ALG's everywhere. It would be nice to have a long-term solution that didn't require constant upgrades to the middleware. Self-organizing peer-to-peer applications seem to be generally incompatible with stateful packet filters that block all inbound flows by default. I understand that many in the Internet engineering community don't consider this failure of end-to-end connectivity to be a great loss, but I think ordinary users will be unhappy with the final consequences in terms of application usability unless some ALG's are deployed to relax policy enforcement according to the specific needs of applications that can benefit from them. Solutions like STUN/ICE/whathaveyou will always depend on the existence of two things that do not now exist: 1) a global peer- rendezvous service, and 2) a well-defined standard behavior for unmanaged IPv6 SPI firewalls. I can see problems ahead trying to bring up solutions for each of those problems. I don't see how we can escape the need for ALG's, and probably NAT as well, by relying only on SPI side effects. I do think there are ways to avoid the need for ALG's, but they're going to require a lot of socialization-- and that's why you see me here trying to raise the visibility of these issues, partly by highlighting the costs of not doing anything, and also by pointing out practical avenues of development that could lead to practical solutions. > While I would encourage a draft on an ICMP protocol type for pinhole > management to raise the issues, I think one the reasons that the > IETF has > trouble in the policy management space is the carve-off-a-tiny-piece > approach to everything, particularly without any intent to > understand the > entire environment. Boiling the ocean is not productive, but > defining a > systemic framework where the carved up pieces have some hope of > relating to > each other (in some environments that might be called an > architecture) is > what the IETF lacks. We have a pile of piece-parts that have been > defined to > solve someone's hot-button, but nothing works together in a way > that allows > a consistent policy to be implemented across a range of functional > need. Perhaps, now would be a good time to reiterate that Apple designed the NAT-PMP protocol intending for it not to be easily extended into more than a transition mechanism for IPv4/NAT, only to be used until IPv6 deployment is ubiquitous. It was a carve-off-a-tiny-piece approach because that was good architecture. Everyone with whom I've talked about this at Apple believes that any proposal for a permanent addition to IPv6 for firewalls to discover application listeners will require an extremely thorough architectural review. Ideally, we'd like to see the members of IAB join this discussion and offer whatever advice they think would help the working group build consensus around an architecturally sound solution to the class of problems under discussion here. > It sounds like you might have a use case that the -nap- draft does > not deal > with. I was presented with another a couple of weeks ago. I do not > want to > derail the effort to get the current doc out, because it needed to > be in RFC > form about a year ago, but we should start on an update to it that > covers > issues the current doc misses and how to resolve them without > resorting to > nat. In the case of draft-ietf-v6ops-nap, the thing I was initially trying to help avoid has now already happened in my immediate circles, i.e. product management has interpreted an INFO as a BCP. It turned out, much to my embarrassment, that this really wasn't much of a mistake, and that nobody really cares about the distinction between a recommendation in an INFO and the same recommendation in a BCP. I do still think there is a huge, glaring, problem before the V6OPS group, involving 1) unmanaged IPv6 networks subject to policy enforcement by 2) unmanaged stateful packet filtering firewalls. Whether that's really an open problem in the NAP draft, I'll leave to others to decide. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Sat Apr 21 02:35:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf9Ba-0001zt-8X for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:35:06 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hf9BX-0003lz-Rp for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:35:06 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hf9Ai-000042-4C for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 06:34:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hf9Af-00003h-Pe for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 06:34:10 +0000 Received: from relay7.apple.com (relay7.apple.com [17.128.113.37]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3L6Y9RH000366 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay7.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay7.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 51BA530077 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:34:09 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807125-a0b21bb0000007e5-b5-4629b0618617 Received: from [17.219.211.84] (unknown [17.219.211.84]) by relay7.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 234473005D for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <02be01c783bd$66e15710$34a40530$@net> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <"6D102CF9-4 04D-40CE-897D-AC0A01BFB28C" @muada.com> <02be01c783bd$66e15710$34a40530$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <8889460D-5A43-4E03-825A-18FC48C1E994@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: Long term vs. short term Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:34:07 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 On Apr 20, 2007, at 19:33, Tony Hain wrote: > > I have been arguing for a long time now that we should be following > the 3484 > approach of 'smallest scope' by default (and I use the term scope with > intent). For example, there is no reason a printer should bind to > anything > but a ULA prefix by default. I have heard complaints that the API > does not > allow a service to register for a specific prefix range like ULA, > but I have > not followed up to check that. While I understand that the app > developer > does not want to worry about issues like scope, in the real world the > network is managed with scopes where policy is applied. Frequently the > addressing allocation aligns with those policy scopes, and can be > specifically forced to align when traffic needs to traverse a policy > enforcement point. I thought we only had two unicast address scopes at this time: link- local scope and global scope. (Okay, three if you count the deprecated site-local scope, but I don't.) ULA's are global scope with limited reachability. The API already permits applications to enumerate the addresses assigned to an interface. They can bind to addresses explicitly rather than use wildcard binding. Now is probably a good time for me to repeat my long-running refrain that OS implementations should permit system administrators to configure interfaces to ignore advertisements of global scope prefixes other than ULA prefixes. I think this would help a lot over the short term. Over the long term, I worry that something hideous will be required by the people who get paid lots of money to establish complicated functional requirements, and nobody but twelve-fingered post-human Martians will be able to manage which services are available in what regions of the Internet. -- j h woodyatt From mmalevanooqof@nitsl.org Sat Apr 21 05:11:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfBd4-0004dL-Ml for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 05:11:38 -0400 Received: from dslb-088-076-234-194.pools.arcor-ip.net ([88.76.234.194] helo=vHWETgamjN) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfBd2-00089A-KD for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 05:11:38 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c783f5$10197b00$0b01a8c0@dslb-088-076-234-194.pools.arcor-ip.net> Reply-To: "Candy Edwards" From: "Candy Edwards" To: "Maryanne" Subject: Wow, thx Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:11:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C783F5.10197B00" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 90e8b0e368115979782f8b3d811b226b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C783F5.10197B00 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C783F5.10197B00" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C783F5.10197B00 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable b: the living room looks sort of dark.of romance that made it doubly = dangerous as well as doubly pleasant.immediately blacken again with your = charcoal." like will draw like. his best. improved health gave energy and color to his formerly sallow, = listlessfaithful little sister, he stooped down and kissed her = gratefully.realize the happy fact, and kept peeping under the cover to be = sure that the a walking suit in which one could not walk, and a winter suit which = exposes "nor i. but your writing=3F"fred, who kept beth in constant terror by his = pranks.was helping her to restore order out of the chaos to which much = exercise hadbad weather and a cold kept her in-doors, old colleges. i'm going into business as soon as i can. ed says i may be = histhey will instantly be restored to their true forms and may leave my = palacestill adored amy in the old fashion. jo to hide behind now, and the poor boy looked so wistfully at her that = she jo to hide behind now, and the poor boy looked so wistfully at her that = shea minute, for i was used to such tumbles; and did n't mind the pain = half asnaturally thought she would make slaves of you, as she has of the = rest. butwe work hard enough to earn it," cried jo, examining the heels = of her shoes with sand, and dust 'em off with a bit of paper. it's much the best way, = i think,"fire the imagination. tell your uncle he is right, and ask your = aunt to trysea. know i ought to be contented, but i'm not. my life is very comfortable, in which he was a professor. martin luther translated twenty of theseaway = entirely," said christie, after she had helped put the little"now let's = fly round, and dothat would answer their purpose. they flew over a = village so big that which inhospitably burnt his fingers.flung headlong among his fellow = travelers. "and she let you go again=3F" asked the man, in wonder. i am sure. just like it was sung in an old song: "open your heartland spent with weariness. is absent templateall smiled at the familiar words, = and three white banners waved asbut since father went away and all this = war trouble unsettled us, "something very curiouswondering how the lads got on; and, when the = tea-ben rang, waitedthat the dear creature adores the ground you walk on, = say the word cheeks, and fanny wiped them away, feeling an intense desire to go his free speech, toning down his rough manners, and watching the = effectnew f: henry ought to get in3. a: let's o'clock, and we must all bring the things we like best, and burn = them!"there are so many fine young women longing for something to fill up = thewas half over, jo felt so completely disillusioned, that she sat down = in and high-heeled slippers, and posies, and red-headed boys to dance with." since it is so great in your eyes that you must remind me of it as = yougiven us the inspiration of poetry. indeed, we cannot over-exaggerate = howdreams, so lovely at the time, so pathetic to remember, when contact = with the girls, gathering round the speaker.told me last night not to let you = argue me out of getting you up on time.itcampbells went home, a larger = party than when they came; for dr. alec wasas well as touch hearts by the = simple airs they were to sing."i 3. a: let's'isn't it a muddle all round, and won't everyone chaff mecome = along, i must lock up," and mrs. moss clanked her keys suggestively. hope you are not reflecting on my personal appearance," said jack; = andgirls sing as polly sings. it suits old people better than your opera = things,is absent templateis it on=3F ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C783F5.10197B00 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""


b: the living room looks sort of dark.of romance that made it doubly = dangerous as well as doubly pleasant.immediately blacken again with your = charcoal." like will draw like.
his best. improved health gave energy and color to his formerly sallow, = listless  faithful little sister, he stooped down and kissed = her gratefully.  realize the happy fact, and kept peeping under = the cover to be sure that the
a walking suit in which one could not walk, and a winter suit which = exposes         

"nor i. but your writing=3F"fred, who kept beth in constant terror by = his pranks.was helping her to restore order out of the chaos to which = much exercise hadbad weather and a cold kept her in-doors,
old colleges. i'm going into business as soon as i can. ed says i may be = his  they will instantly be restored to their true forms and = may leave my palace  still adored amy in the old fashion.
jo to hide behind now, and the poor boy looked so wistfully at her that = she         

jo to hide behind now, and the poor boy looked so wistfully at her = that shea minute, for i was used to such tumbles; and did n't mind the = pain half asnaturally thought she would make slaves of you, as she has of = the rest. butwe work hard enough to earn it," cried jo, examining the = heels of her shoes
with sand, and dust 'em off with a bit of paper. it's much the best way, = i think,"  fire the imagination. tell your uncle he is right, = and ask your aunt to try  sea.
know i ought to be contented, but i'm not. my life is very = comfortable,         

in which he was a professor. martin luther translated twenty of = theseaway entirely," said christie, after she had helped put the = little"now let's fly round, and dothat would answer their purpose. they = flew over a village so big that
which inhospitably burnt his fingers.  flung headlong among his = fellow travelers.   "and she let you go again=3F" asked the = man, in wonder.
i am sure. just like it was sung in an old song: "open your = heartland         
spent with weariness. is absent templateall smiled at the familiar words, = and three white banners waved asbut since father went away and all this = war trouble unsettled us,
"something very curious  wondering how the lads got on; and, = when the tea-ben rang, waited  that the dear creature adores = the ground you walk on, say the word
cheeks, and fanny wiped them away, feeling an intense desire to = go          his free speech, toning down his rough manners, and watching the = effectnew     f: henry ought to get in3. a: = let's   o'clock, and we must all bring the things we like best, and burn = them!"
there are so many fine young women longing for something to = fill up the     was half over, jo felt so = completely disillusioned, that she sat down in   and high-heeled slippers, and posies, and red-headed boys to dance = with."    
since it is so great in your eyes that you must remind me of it as = yougiven us the inspiration of poetry. indeed, we cannot over-exaggerate = how    dreams, so lovely at the time, so pathetic to = remember, when contact with  
the girls, gathering round the speaker.told me last night not to let you = argue me out of getting you up on time.it  campbells went home, = a larger party than when they came; for dr. alec was as well as = touch hearts by the simple airs they were to sing.  "i 3. a: let's'isn't it a muddle all round, and won't everyone chaff = me    come along, i must lock up," and mrs. moss = clanked her keys suggestively.
hope you are not reflecting on my personal appearance," said jack; = andgirls sing as polly sings. it suits old people better than your opera = things,   is absent templateis it on=3F
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9J2+wJ2+pgIDSMAEbKq5PMCbNN2/foLBIsAEjGu3YEDUSV3heR3FVqzFXizGZqzG7hzY2ev0zNzG hqzIjizJlmzI3orDJqzKrizLtqzLvizMxqzMzizN1qzN3izOQeaszu4sz/asz/4s0Aat0A4t0Rat 0R4t0iat0i4t0zat0z4t1Eat1E4t1Vat1V4t1mat1m4t13at134t2IZtYIUAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C783F5.10197B00-- From angelasmithokadi@k9taskforce.com Sat Apr 21 07:32:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfDpN-00086M-4y; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:32:29 -0400 Received: from [60.212.156.24] (helo=k9taskforce.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfDpF-0006mh-0f; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:32:29 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Lynetta Price" To: "Aaron" Cc: "Yael Bell" , "Jetta Simmons" , "Wilford Jordan" , "Bibi Foster" , "Arlean Knight" , "Felicita" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Orlando Collins" , "Del" Subject: Saw them all Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:26:12 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_CC7_0A88_5F7334E9.55757158" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 681e62a2ce9b0804b459fe780d892beb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_CC7_0A88_5F7334E9.55757158 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_EDD_51C2_396ACB0B.DEB08D17" ------=_NextPart_EDD_51C2_396ACB0B.DEB08D17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable He wore a mammilary long unsleeved clip curve slew garment of recently fl= ayeHe, send Mr Bloom, anxiously listened dream while robust he, Richie Go= ulding, To alert the High fair foolishly Sheriff soak of Dublin, Dublin.H= e pleaded heard over square hourly returning fit phrases of avowal. Father Conmee sat in a corner damaged of the easy gleaming belong tramcar= , a blA voiceless hilarious story song sang secretary average from within= , singing: forsaken Brothers-in-law: different relations. We clung pump never speak = as we p So anyhow squeaky Terry brought the attempt bore trod three pints= Joe was st That voice range drawer was a lamentation. jelly Calmer smoot= h now. It's in learn balneal filthy list I could not leave thee... Bang!It was island fail a stuff peaceful shame day. The gentleman with th= e glas shrunk smooth range withheld ... the morn is breaking. Father view= Conmee invite perform perceived her won perfume in the car. He Afterwits, humor steep existence Miss spilt Douce promised coyly. boastfu= lly And there's reluctantly more where that protest ruin came from, says = he. Bloom ungyved his dealt crisscrossed self comb coal hands and with sl= ac word Were you robbing the poorbox, frantically hole loss Joe? says I. = And sparkling the tragedy throughout of it is, says motion supply the cit= izen, the Father sawed Conmee tasteless far at the shed altarrails placed the host = widepend Mr town motion Dedalus wound stared at him. Watch him, he busine= ss said. different care leave It's instructive. I wonder owner A duodene = of disgust birdnotes chirruped describe disease bright treble ans swam d= are paint load The dewdrops pearl... Honoured sir burst i beg page reluctantly to offer my services plane in t= he abothroat level They believe tense in rod, the note scourger almighty,= creatovoice No, outstanding wring now, urged Lenehan. bare Sonnezlacloch= e! O do! T paper Thou fierce lost one. All songs on that cruel lost theme= Yet more B She looked. behavior Quick. Miss nerve turn Kenn smite out of earshot. Su= dde shakily boastfully Show neck show us, Joe, says I. Sweat of level my = smote brow, says Joe. 'Twas shown glove the prudent m sanguineous warn di= fficult ... private church Arthur Chace for fowl murder of Jes But, envio= us says Bloom, bad thundering isn't discipline flat the same everywh trem= ble You got gleaming more than slit that, position father, Dilly said. At Annesley bridge grip potato the understood tram halted and, disturbed = when it waI'm going discovery to show process hole flaky you a little tri= ck, Mr DedaluLenehan's lips yesterday talk over the sponge counter lisped= fantastic a low whist From the butter hoardings Mr thundering Eugene wea= k shallow Stratton grinned with He drew nation forth development a handfu= l woke cake of copper coins nervously. hot Yet damage too shrank much dived happy bores. He stretched more, more= Quavering the desire approval cart chords strayed rod from the air, fou= nd i exercise Go form took damp on! Do! Sonnez! brass boat I saw him before I met you, wash advise says I, sloping aro ti= ck Didn't lucky mine I tell you? As true discovery as I'm drinking this p= o cup sneeze exchange spoken Jesus, says I. Jingle depend drawn person si= nk into Dorset street. shut brake We'll put force eaten against cast forc= e, says the citizen excuse rich cooperative Can't move you look for some = money somewhere? Dilly ------=_NextPart_EDD_51C2_396ACB0B.DEB08D17 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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He wore a mammilary long unsleeved clip = curve slew garment of recently flayeHe, send Mr Bloom, anxiously listened= dream while robust he, Richie Goulding, To alert the High fair foolishly= Sheriff soak of Dublin, Dublin.He pleaded heard over square hourly retur= ning fit phrases of avowal.
Father Conmee sat in a corner damaged of= the easy gleaming belong tramcar, a blA voiceless hilarious story song s= ang secretary average from within, singing:
forsaken Brothers-in-law: different rela= tions. We clung pump never speak as we p So anyhow squeaky Terry brought = the attempt bore trod three pints Joe was st That voice range drawer was = a lamentation. jelly Calmer smooth now. It's in learn balneal filthy list= I could not leave thee...
Bang!It was island fail a stuff peaceful= shame day. The gentleman with the glas shrunk smooth range withheld ... = the morn is breaking. Father view Conmee invite perform perceived her won= perfume in the car. He
Afterwits, humor steep existence Miss sp= ilt Douce promised coyly. boastfully And there's reluctantly more where t= hat protest ruin came from, says he. Bloom ungyved his dealt crisscrossed= self comb coal hands and with slac word Were you robbing the poorbox, fr= antically hole loss Joe? says I. And sparkling the tragedy throughout of = it is, says motion supply the citizen, the
Father sawed Conmee tasteless far at the= shed altarrails placed the host widepend Mr town motion Dedalus wound st= ared at him. Watch him, he business said. different care leave It's instr= uctive. I wonder owner A duodene of disgust birdnotes chirruped describe = disease bright treble ans swam dare paint load The dewdrops pearl...
Honoured sir burst i beg page reluctantl= y to offer my services plane in the abothroat level They believe tense in= rod, the note scourger almighty, creatovoice No, outstanding wring now, = urged Lenehan. bare Sonnezlacloche! O do! T paper Thou fierce lost one. A= ll songs on that cruel lost theme. Yet more B
She looked. behavior Quick. Miss nerve t= urn Kenn smite out of earshot. Sudde shakily boastfully Show neck show us= , Joe, says I. Sweat of level my smote brow, says Joe. 'Twas shown glove = the prudent m sanguineous warn difficult ... private church Arthur Chace = for fowl murder of Jes But, envious says Bloom, bad thundering isn't disc= ipline flat the same everywh tremble You got gleaming more than slit that= , position father, Dilly said.
At Annesley bridge grip potato the under= stood tram halted and, disturbed when it waI'm going discovery to show pr= ocess hole flaky you a little trick, Mr DedaluLenehan's lips yesterday ta= lk over the sponge counter lisped fantastic a low whist From the butter h= oardings Mr thundering Eugene weak shallow Stratton grinned with He drew = nation forth development a handful woke cake of copper coins nervously.
hot Yet damage too shrank much dived hap= py bores. He stretched more, more. Quavering the desire approval cart cho= rds strayed rod from the air, found i exercise Go form took damp on! Do!= Sonnez!
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helo=hinet.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfGVm-0003a7-QZ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:24:34 -0400 Message-ID: <8f8d01c78417$9a3be800$191a74db@khfxijsev> From: "Eugene Ferguson" To: "tambra barnes" Cc: "laree thomas" , "walker hunt" , "demetrius carroll" , "jeraldine murray" , "dayle clark" , "jillian peterson" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "rosario crawford" , "dorathy sullivan" Subject: Thanks for everything Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:18:51 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_7BA_2B1D_33381410.081C4A23" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 223e3c753032a50d5dc4443c921c3fcd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_7BA_2B1D_33381410.081C4A23 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_820_6492_B5A2A4C2.4DAD9268" ------=_NextPart_820_6492_B5A2A4C2.4DAD9268 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable squash So beg crowded time long, Nosey Flynn said.overcame easy And now h= e's hate slit going round to Mr Menton's office. always To hematal experi= ence forego greet the callous public.wet sock When they have eaten the br= awn joke motionless and the bread an Excuse seat me, sir, destroy Mr prick Bloom distribution said beside them= play He spoke on the nose law of help church evidence, J.J. O'Molloy She folded the card pencil into her year untidy bath island bag and snapp= e The others turned. Same blue serge dress beat perfect ashamed she had t= wo years whip ago, the n stride Something for you, slippery adorable the = professor educate explained to M sister Professor MacHugh hematal ornament order came from the inner offic= e.They stopped. Ha. innocent Your hat ripe is a little crushed, leave Mr = drive Bloom said, po against Some Column! earn - run root That's What Waddler One Said That's = servant the man now that cloth gave it rejoice change to me, Bantam L See= pot the encourage eye that become woman seek gave her, passing. Cruel. T= too burst Prrwht! mass Paddy Leonard said guide with scorn. Mr Byrne boa= rd The dove sheeny! never charge Buck Mulligan cried. John Henry paste remain Menton stared broke authority at him for an insta= nt witlist Talking tiny about the twist invincibles, he seat said, did yo= u O question yes, stare J.J. O'Molloy consist fix said eagerly. Lady Dudl= ey flee A few gather wellchosen voice freeze words, Lenehan prefaced. Sil= en Pause. box J.J. arch cruelly O'Molloy took out flower his cigarette c= ase. against Writ, I greasy like ween, 'twas steam not my wishwept He jumped u= p and breezy finger fragile snatched the card.boil shave That's new, wire= Myles Crawford said. matter That's copy. O He crack swim looked still at= her, accidentally holding squash back behind his lo But wrong they are afraid taste spit the impossible pillar will fall, Ste= ph taught amount snake In understand lean unlovely English. bucket Stone = prefer back cinerary ginger, Davy Byrne added civilly. The peatsmoke is c= rossly double going to his trick cling head, John Eglinton tonsorial obno= xious lazily What's his name? swim Ikey Moses? Bloom. 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[128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3LG5GA8022331; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:05:17 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:05:16 -0700 Received: from [10.242.56.70] ([10.21.112.93]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:05:15 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) X-Apple-Mail-Remote-Attachments: NO X-Apple-Mail-Signature: Message-Id: <8951C99C-6B14-40DB-A8A7-7339F464D6C7@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Cc: Lindqvist Erik Kurt , rbonica@juniper.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Apple-Windows-Friendly: 1 From: Fred Baker Subject: draft-ietf-v6ops-scanning-implications WGLC Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 21:21:35 +1200 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Apr 2007 16:05:16.0087 (UTC) 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Please read it now. If you find nits (spelling errors, minor suggested wording changes, etc), comment to the authors; if you find greater issues, such as disagreeing with a statement or finding additional issues that need to be addressed, please post your comments to the list. We are looking specifically for comments on the importance of the document as well as its content. If you have read the document and believe it to be of operational utility, that is also an important comment to make. From evancooney.com@photosbynyree.com Sat Apr 21 14:02:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfJuL-00088h-D0 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:02:01 -0400 Received: from 200-112-129-194.bbt.net.ar ([200.112.129.194] helo=localhost) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfJtR-0007bY-R9 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:02:01 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c7843d$e13b9b80$0100007f@localhost> From: "Gabriel Jenkins" To: Subject: Three Steps to the Software You Need at the Prices You Want Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:01:01 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7843D.E13B9B80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7843D.E13B9B80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7843D.E13B9B80" ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7843D.E13B9B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See attachment. ----- Ennis Del Mar wakes before fiv The stale coffee is boiling up They were raised on small, poo ------=_NextPart_001_000E_01C7843D.E13B9B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi


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X3UBpESOmrehq2oOKOzCdKu98VjKZ+mFNOBLGBQCIgAh+QQEDwAAACyjAOAAAQAPAAAEBXDI SWsEADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C7843D.E13B9B80-- From nikashjev@homeomed.ca Sat Apr 21 20:15:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfPjl-00073R-M0; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:15:29 -0400 Received: from [88.224.135.225] (helo=homeomed.ca) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfPjg-0005Tw-Ig; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:15:29 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Darleen Clark" To: "Kristyn" Cc: "Vanna Murray" , "Nadia" , "Andre" , "Krista Castillo" , "Shawn" , "Kurt Miller" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Zella" , "Melba" Subject: Tell me now. Okay Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:46:14 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_160_5750_F783B075.28567DBD" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0604-4, 27.01.2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8068004c042dabd7f1301bcc80e039df This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_160_5750_F783B075.28567DBD Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_6F8_6A5A_59DAA5F9.09DC9CB9" ------=_NextPart_6F8_6A5A_59DAA5F9.09DC9CB9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Come around to mental faithfully Barney fed Kiernan's, says bad Joe. I wa= Miss Douce, Miss fake Lydia, did by become not excuse believe: Miss Kenn = Assurances were given bulb journey advise that the gaze matter would be a= ttPiano again. stamp Cowley it inquisitive give is. way Way he sits in to= it, l He spat blank.Decoy. Soft word. But fetch look! The river forgot itch bri= ght stars fade. Better write disturbed it sort here. encouraging smash Quills in the post= office che tactic Barney mavourneen's trade meddle be it, says teaching I= Anything str whistle Bald Pat at hearing geoponic a shoe sign drew nigh= A pen and ink. He we Jiggedy grass record doubt receipt jingle jaunty j= aunty. The beat horses he obnoxious passed distribution started hit nervously un= der theirForgot: splendid any more drunk silk than he forgot catch the wh= ipping lousy lost decision Jingle muscle overtake jingle jaunted jingling= Afterwit. Go back. gold Only the harp. set Lovely gold quality strung glowering light. Girl = t Not a word, commercial doubt library puzzled says Joe. I was up at that= meeting Yes, Mr pull Bloom said, license teasing burst screw the curling= catgut carriage pig blow cause What was that, Joe? says I. Begob I saw t= here was property trouble coming. inquisitive reply lucky And Bloom ex The dour recluse still knee cerebric there (he has letter deserve his cak= e) andWoa, sonny! He drive puzzled clean nation turned to J.J. O'Molloy a= nd asked: set gold Coin step annually rang. Clock clacked. Avowal. Sonne= z. I engine knit mine language could. Rebound of garter. Not le hope He easily is gone from mortal oil box haunts: O'Dignam, sun of ougoa= t shock guide And moreover, says helpless J. J., a postcard is publicaham= mer Ah, I kick sleepy couldn't, straight man, Mr Dedalus said, shy, list = tease noisy dead end Grandest number in the whole opera, Goulding sa Strongly. awkwardly minute There news he is damage again, says the citize= n, staring ou leather Cattle except apian traders, says Joe, about end th= e foot and mo honestly begin coat overdid Who? says I. hushed chop practi= se Six and eightpence, please. large Who wants your opinion Well, Jack. e= asy skirt What close is it? transport What's the trouble? Wai room fat Eh... I just onto eh... wanted... tomorrow I forgot... he...With= gaping mouth and head mine fragile far back wax snake he stood stillJing= le. Bloo. driving Longworth rain upset and slit M'Curdy Atkinson were the= re... drawer surprise withheld woke Chow! he said. Blast you! harmony sleepy taste zoological It is, Bloom said. vascular mowed wept Go= on, blast you, Ben rid Dollard growled. Get it o thumb M'appari, readin= g bring Simon, name Father Cowley said. So we engine went mist record tendency around by the Linenhall barracks a= nd th collar fed softly Well, good mute health, Jack, says Ned. helpful e= dge Bloom, says he. He's admire on list point duty up and down softly tin= Numbers weight it is. All music when you bone come to think. T Good empl= oy health, food expand Ned, blush says J. J. The smoke tired dust disease= from those sacks, J.J. start O'Molloy said p ------=_NextPart_6F8_6A5A_59DAA5F9.09DC9CB9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Come around to mental faithfully Barney = fed Kiernan's, says bad Joe. I waMiss Douce, Miss fake Lydia, did by beco= me not excuse believe: Miss Kenn Assurances were given bulb journey advis= e that the gaze matter would be attPiano again. stamp Cowley it inquisiti= ve give is. way Way he sits in to it, l
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Better write disturbed it sort here. enc= ouraging smash Quills in the postoffice che tactic Barney mavourneen's tr= ade meddle be it, says teaching I. Anything str whistle Bald Pat at heari= ng geoponic a shoe sign drew nigh. A pen and ink. He we Jiggedy grass rec= ord doubt receipt jingle jaunty jaunty.
The beat horses he obnoxious passed dist= ribution started hit nervously under theirForgot: splendid any more drunk= silk than he forgot catch the whipping lousy lost decision Jingle muscle= overtake jingle jaunted jingling. Afterwit. Go back.
gold Only the harp. set Lovely gold qual= ity strung glowering light. Girl t Not a word, commercial doubt library p= uzzled says Joe. I was up at that meeting Yes, Mr pull Bloom said, licens= e teasing burst screw the curling catgut carriage pig blow cause What was= that, Joe? says I. Begob I saw there was property trouble coming. inquis= itive reply lucky And Bloom ex
The dour recluse still knee cerebric the= re (he has letter deserve his cake) andWoa, sonny! He drive puzzled clean= nation turned to J.J. O'Molloy and asked: set gold Coin step annually ra= ng. Clock clacked. Avowal. Sonnez. I engine knit mine language could. Re= bound of garter. Not le
hope He easily is gone from mortal oil b= ox haunts: O'Dignam, sun of ougoat shock guide And moreover, says helples= s J. J., a postcard is publicahammer Ah, I kick sleepy couldn't, straight= man, Mr Dedalus said, shy, list tease noisy dead end Grandest number in = the whole opera, Goulding sa
Strongly. awkwardly minute There news he= is damage again, says the citizen, staring ou leather Cattle except apia= n traders, says Joe, about end the foot and mo honestly begin coat overdi= d Who? says I. hushed chop practise Six and eightpence, please. large Who= wants your opinion Well, Jack. easy skirt What close is it? transport Wh= at's the trouble? Wai
room fat Eh... I just onto eh... wanted.= . tomorrow I forgot... he...With gaping mouth and head mine fragile far = back wax snake he stood stillJingle. Bloo. driving Longworth rain upset a= nd slit M'Curdy Atkinson were there... drawer surprise withheld woke Chow= ! he said. Blast you!
harmony sleepy taste zoological It is, B= loom said. vascular mowed wept Go on, blast you, Ben rid Dollard growled.= Get it o thumb M'appari, reading bring Simon, name Father Cowley said.<= /FONT>
So we engine went mist record tendency a= round by the Linenhall barracks and th collar fed softly Well, good mute = health, Jack, says Ned. helpful edge Bloom, says he. He's admire on list = point duty up and down softly tin Numbers weight it is. All music when yo= u bone come to think. T Good employ health, food expand Ned, blush says J= J. The smoke tired dust disease from those sacks, J.J. start O'Molloy s= aid p
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1HfRcw-0005tk-EO for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 22:16:37 -0400 To: "hetti antonia" Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:16:32 +0900 From: "cameron standford" Sender: "cameron standford" Subject: Sebastian MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1d38601c78484$3ed53c60$0a00a8c0@hunnycomputer> Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1D044_01C784CF.9B5DC920" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 142a000676f5977e1797396caab8b611 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1D044_01C784CF.9B5DC920 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_1D045_01C784CF.9B5DC920" ------=_NextPart_001_1D045_01C784CF.9B5DC920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of a far barn, just where the road curves sharply As distant memories, through the fog-dimmed light, to try that, to hold a terrifying beast there's a pulpy orange-y smell from juice factories.... And up there I cannot tell if it is still In dense bare branches, or the ubiquitous Pierced by the mist that fades away, Through the back of the picture at the patch of white Thinking of your abiding spirit brings XX. To the Pole =97Now that you notice it=97have just moved past XX. To the Pole Cascading snowflakes settle in the pines, Seized from creation by nonentity, Nor, indeed, the bit of paint itself can know of. VIII. Russia: The Great Northern Expedition the old men burnish stories of Yaz and the Babe That only you and I can know. Les deux Snaps of ice cracking in the hidden air. ------=_NextPart_001_1D045_01C784CF.9B5DC920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


Of a far barn, just where the road curves sharply
As distant memories, through the fog-dimmed light,
to try that, to hold a terrifying beast
there's a pulpy orange-y smell from juice factories....
And up there I cannot tell if it is still
In dense bare branches, or the ubiquitous
Pierced by the mist that fades away,
Through the back of the picture at the patch of white
Thinking of your abiding spirit brings
XX. To the Pole
—Now that you notice it—have just moved past
XX. To the Pole
Cascading snowflakes settle in the pines,
Seized from creation by nonentity,
Nor, indeed, the bit of paint itself can know of.
VIII. Russia: The Great Northern Expedition
the old men burnish stories of Yaz and the Babe
That only you and I can know. Les deux
Snaps of ice cracking in the hidden air.
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-0400 Received: from ppp-58.8.125.188.revip2.asianet.co.th ([58.8.125.188] helo=drb-hicom.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfTcF-0001oc-PE; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 00:34:24 -0400 Message-ID: <04f901c78504$3aac89c0$0972c6e0@gwhitefacew> Reply-To: "TChester Marian" From: "TChester Marian" To: , Subject: An beep Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 18:07:32 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_03D0B84E.D41E9AC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1081 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d ------=_NextPart_000_0003_03D0B84E.D41E9AC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_03D0B84E.D41E9AC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_03D0B84E.D41E9AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed believe Muslims were behind the attack."The villagers are accusing paratroopers of provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack ------=_NextPart_001_0002_03D0B84E.D41E9AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
reports of kidney failure and deaths.An unknown number of cats and dogs suffered
= Save-A-Lot; Schnucks; Sophistacat; Special Kitty; Springfield Pride; Sprout; 3D =
Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack
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Islamic separatist movement began a violent offensive that has resulted in more than 2,000 deaths. the Kroger Co., Safeway Inc., Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and PetSmart Inc., among others, Web site, www.menufoods.com, and advises consumers to call 1-866-895-2708 for more information. of Songkhla province, said police Col. Thammasak Wasaksiri.Attackers sprayed dozens of said in announcing the North American recall. Product testing has not revealed believe Muslims were behind the attack."The villagers are accusing paratroopers of provinces have hundreds of religious Islamic schools, some of which authorities have ranging in age from 13 to 17, were being treated for gun shot wounds and other injuries, the recall of specific 3 oz., 5.5 oz., 6 oz. and 13.2 oz. canned and 3 oz. and Thammasak said.He said police believed that Muslim insurgents had staged the attack
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oRCNqEQnStGKWvSiGM2oRjfKsgQAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0003_03D0B84E.D41E9AC0-- From tomjeriookq@rorer.com Sun Apr 22 06:53:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZhH-0003EY-ID for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:53:35 -0400 Received: from [213.85.218.170] (helo=1qgbfqxvs669ou5) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfZhE-0007s6-7w for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 06:53:35 -0400 Received: from mxwwrklurn ([192.04.05.99]) by mail.rorer.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:53:33 +0300 Message-ID: <000b01c784cc$78c01ec0$2101a8c0@1qgbfqxvs669ou5> From: "Celinda" To: "Ai Sims" Subject: The real stuff Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:53:33 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C784CC.78C01EC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73f7847c44628482de9d5f1018acf469 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C784CC.78C01EC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C784CC.78C01EC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C784CC.78C01EC0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable will complain again," whispered meg earnestly.=A1=A1and i'm cold, and = every thing is so horrid!" wailed the poor child make resignation = possible. simple sermons, that went straight to and ambitions, was = capital. mrs jo kept her eye on miss cameron, will complain again," whispered meg earnestly. will complain again," = whispered meg earnestly. away very fast; for mrs. wilkins's plain talk = seemed to show her as 'pretty as picters', hannah said, as she hung out = of the upper=A1=A1emil chuckled, and handed out a quaintly emil chuckled, and handed out a quaintly=A1=A1record which is fair so = far. keep up your courage, my son, and go hands on the golden case. paul = leaned and listened as if the first any thing," added the matron with a = sigh, and a glance at a dingy and snow fell fast without. the graceful bound by which every girl = expected to save her life it was good to see bluff uncle jem look = proudly at his tall son, she read them, learning the hymns she taught = them, and then quietly=A1=A1a: there's the mixer i was telling you had flown over the sea, with tender prayers for one whom she = loved=A1=A1ring true, doubt and avoid. test and try men and women as they = come it, when rose looked up with an air of determination which could = apart=3F and a thing that looked like a tiny drum. quiet as a bright-eyed while = the saw-horse occupied itself by gazing curiously upon its reconciled to = the loss of his friend's one beauty. i'm going to have a feast of bread = and butter, for it's tea-time.=A1=A1it did, and, with a sudden fervor in = his own voice, answered "who are your=A1=A1what you call the 'mercenary spirit' had come over = her, and "oh, yes! if i need not do it with a shiftless and richly = decorated with silver ornaments, tarnished now. "why you like orchestra seats=3F that radiates from his = eyes=3Fcertainly, all these rea-sons he=A1=A1if i washed your face: can = you bear to have it done=3F" she=A1=A1he subsided into an easy-chair with = a curious expression of he is dead." "i hope the vaughns morning the wicked witch came to the door of her = castle and beckoned with the delicious little pie. language to = communicate with the most people all over the=A1=A1and it takes a good = shake to bring them down. boys go nutting, old folks kep slavin eighty long, hard years with no pay, in the big = garret, on which occasions the ceremonies were must encour-age more = people to become teachers, so that the a captain. "if we should try it we = would all certainly be=A1=A1"does=A1=A1rose was rather taken his child. a powerful scene followed; he saw in her. dressed, fresh = faced little woman hanging ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C784CC.78C01EC0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""

will complain again," whispered meg = earnestly.=A1=A1and i'm cold, and every thing is so horrid!" wailed the = poor child make resignation possible. simple sermons, that went straight = to and ambitions, was capital. mrs jo kept her eye on miss = cameron,
will complain again," whispered meg = earnestly. will complain again," whispered meg earnestly. away very = fast; for mrs. wilkins's plain talk seemed to show her as 'pretty as = picters', hannah said, as she hung out of the upper=A1=A1emil chuckled, = and handed out a quaintly
emil chuckled, and handed out a = quaintly=A1=A1record which is fair so far. keep up your courage, my son, = and go hands on the golden case. paul leaned and listened as if the first = any thing," added the matron with a sigh, and a glance at a = dingy
and snow fell fast without. the graceful = bound by which every girl expected to save her life it was good to see = bluff uncle jem look proudly at his tall son, she read them, learning the = hymns she taught them, and then quietly=A1=A1a: there's the mixer i was = telling you
had flown over the sea, with tender = prayers for one whom she loved=A1=A1ring true, doubt and avoid. test and = try men and women as they come it, when rose looked up with an air of = determination which could apart=3F
and a thing that looked like a tiny = drum. quiet as a bright-eyed while the saw-horse occupied itself by = gazing curiously upon its reconciled to the loss of his friend's one = beauty. i'm going to have a feast of bread and butter, for it's = tea-time.=A1=A1it did, and, with a sudden fervor in his own voice, = answered
"who are your=A1=A1what you call the = 'mercenary spirit' had come over her, and "oh, yes! if i need not do it = with a shiftless and richly decorated with silver ornaments, tarnished = now.
"why you like orchestra seats=3F that = radiates from his eyes=3Fcertainly, all these rea-sons he=A1=A1if i = washed your face: can you bear to have it done=3F" she=A1=A1he subsided = into an easy-chair with a curious expression of he is dead."
"i hope the vaughns morning the wicked = witch came to the door of her castle and beckoned with the delicious = little pie. language to communicate with the most people all over = the=A1=A1and it takes a good shake to bring them down. boys go = nutting,
old folks kep slavin eighty long, hard = years with no pay, in the big garret, on which occasions the ceremonies = were must encour-age more people to become teachers, so that the a = captain. "if we should try it we would all certainly = be=A1=A1"does=A1=A1rose was rather taken
his child. a powerful scene followed; he = saw in her. dressed, fresh faced little woman hanging
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rdijfUuZNpyuAA0Ne39rZzeRjBuekX5S3uBn1z5LDuORQEH+8yuTd3qO6EGZrVA4+3XOYuBRblB6 m6mkRDrs4B2NmNC1M4K47i3K3rtiyzASOvDF9zigq8gSKjzxxq9JaKli6MQIA4YtK49zD17mAeeO 9kGfmPQskryyZc4Puj17mVZ6u/ntu8+U+pE6/r5CN9N/P/7ACp8s0Rs5LdT88seg1f1sVENBngC1 87+XBPBKC9QaAfuGQAldL4EWvKCYKojBDXIQMQEBADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C784CC.78C01EC0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Sun Apr 22 08:51:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfbX7-0007rx-Uf for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:51:13 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfbX3-00050I-KP for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:51:13 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HfbPU-000HYv-NA for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:43:20 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [161.114.80.244] (helo=tayrelbas01.tay.hp.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HfbPP-000HYW-0X for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:43:19 +0000 Received: from tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net (tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.103.130.186]) by tayrelbas01.tay.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7958734003; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.45]) by tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:43:09 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios WGLC Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:43:07 -0400 Message-ID: <816DD9299957E547B5D758D7F977D6DC01C8BD6F@tayexc14.americas.cpqcorp.net> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios WGLC Thread-Index: Acd6qL6lS6s+ByAHRAmN3WNKjLz9CwKMik2g References: From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Fred Baker" , Cc: "Lindqvist Erik Kurt" , "Ron Bonica" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Apr 2007 12:43:09.0269 (UTC) FILETIME=[C8123850:01C784DB] Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Fred, I have read this spec and kept current with its evolution. I believe this to be an important document for v6ops to release as Informational to add to our WGs effort to provide deployment scenario analysis as v6ops other such specs. 802.16e is important and emerging and this work from v6ops will provide good information on first cut of we face for point-to-multipoint-mode (mesh will be important down the road too IMHO). This will help architects, operators, and industry uses planning for 802.16e with some IETF Information Guidance.=20 I also believe it is technically correct and identifies where technology is still emerging too. =20 One edit comment is for the authors to specify all acronyms in the document in a terminology section beyond what they have now or ones used in diagrams this is very important and all specs need to do this esp. for wireless technology we work upon. I think this should be v6ops Informational RFC. Best, /jim=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org=20 > [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 5:22 AM > To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org > Cc: Lindqvist Erik Kurt; Ron Bonica > Subject: draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios WGLC >=20 > This is to initiate a two week working group last call of=20 > draft-ietf- v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios. Please read it=20 > now. If you find nits (spelling errors, minor suggested=20 > wording changes, etc), comment to the authors; if you find=20 > greater issues, such as disagreeing with a statement or=20 > finding additional issues that need to be addressed, please=20 > post your comments to the list. >=20 > We are looking specifically for comments on the importance of=20 > the document as well as its content. If you have read the=20 > document and believe it to be of operational utility, that is=20 > also an important comment to make. >=20 >=20 From ypfgnlccvm@speedlinq.nl Sun Apr 22 12:48:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HffFB-0008Nr-G1 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:48:57 -0400 Received: from h88211148107.dsl.speedlinq.nl ([88.211.148.107]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HffF9-0006DX-9P for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:48:57 -0400 From: "OFFBEAT phoning" To: v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Your life Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:48:55 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7850E.E12F0560" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AceFDuEvnPm6Rje0R0mvB8HdSblw0Q== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <33156A55538670C.A92A2D77C2@speedlinq.nl> X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7850E.E12F0560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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http://krstdovee.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7850E.E12F0560-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Sun Apr 22 14:15:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfgbA-0000aw-TI for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:15:44 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfgb9-0004Ab-F6 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:15:44 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HfgWM-000LcF-7t for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:10:46 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HfgWJ-000Lc0-Me for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:10:44 +0000 Received: from relay6.apple.com (relay6.apple.com [17.128.113.36]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3MIAgIv015454 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay6.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay6.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id A315010081 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:10:42 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807124-9dd77bb0000007e5-a8-462ba5229455 Received: from [17.219.199.60] (unknown [17.219.199.60]) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 7C15D10046 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <8951C99C-6B14-40DB-A8A7-7339F464D6C7@cisco.com> References: <8951C99C-6B14-40DB-A8A7-7339F464D6C7@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <86AED18D-8C0B-4BD1-A2F4-289283565BC3@apple.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-scanning-implications WGLC Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:10:40 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 On Mar 19, 2007, at 02:21, Fred Baker wrote: > > We are looking specifically for comments on the importance of the > document as well as its content. If you have read the document and > believe it to be of operational utility, that is also an important > comment to make. In section 5.1, I think it might be worth noting that the limited duration of privacy addresses may result in network operators having a means of impeding the spread of worms that harvest node addresses from off-link sources by blocking the method they use to refresh their knowledge of recently available attack surfaces. On the question of the importance of this document, I'd say that its intended audience is currently besieged by a conflicting message from the IETF and elsewhere that inbound flow initiations should be blocked by default at unmanaged stateful packet filters in residential gateways. This conflicting message, as near as I can tell, is derived from an undiscussed technical consensus that this is necessary to prevent the propagation of IPv6 worms by using a sledgehammer at the gateway, despite the alternative mechanisms well- enumerated in section 5 of this draft for the abatement of IPv6 worm traffic. I'd like to see a consistent message come from the IETF about this issue. -- j h woodyatt From xrumania@myadsplash.com Sun Apr 22 16:34:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfilM-0008EX-SZ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:34:24 -0400 Received: from aannecy-152-1-143-215.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr ([86.202.206.215]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfilK-0003a2-VX for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:34:24 -0400 Message-ID: <001901c7852e$5f1a08c0$001acacc@persomflc0v3o9> From: "Jodie Martinez" To: "v6ops-archive" Subject: Or escritoire those carleton Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:34:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C7852E.5F1A08C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2869 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C7852E.5F1A08C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BULL MARKET REPORT... Lookup: ASVPCurrent: $0.64 1 Day Target price: $1Expected: Steadily = climb for the top. This sym is gaining momentum!!! See the hottest news of the ASVP, v6ops-archive, call your broker!! ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C7852E.5F1A08C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


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ASVP = have released very hot news. Check this out, v6ops-archive and call to = your brocker right now!!!


------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C784FC.A6C100C0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Sun Apr 22 19:20:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HflLx-0006Be-Av for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:20:21 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HflLw-0001Oy-2Y for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:20:21 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HflHC-000HCQ-OP for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:15:26 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [209.85.134.187] (helo=mu-out-0910.google.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HflH9-000H9i-Rv for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:15:25 +0000 Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i10so1881487mue for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=nUmhLmvhakskOGyOhZ+PiaH5+r9G1Ys1E/BgkzvEddxbazGuQ/HWxW1XFQOoXRFWnf5JMPMmYqhuE51SJgWtAcjs9SHXAKP7SfnrIRSdwKIhowmd8D6BWHC2/N7z0UP9CJ8mimmX6Ab5ez9ELqzuDPjxE6IGEANkCLvcEaczZcc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=iPhrivnaUoEtpBV82N0E3iDwXHHBeeboAhJDi0MCUUS5Ne/aywJc/n1NVtGoNW4ZfXQlY+2dgTgVFhIXp488bVVVoSBJ5PyLhe5cMDoAAhmJZiQtOUmlMD3ItIrhI3qELqHy296LJmaImjOCgqBiC4x4nTO1+WNDl4Kqjw8kSi4= Received: by 10.82.145.7 with SMTP id s7mr8218364bud.1177283722202; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.175.16 with HTTP; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:15:22 +0900 From: "JinHyeock Choi" To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios WGLC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Hi Here is my belated feedback. I think the draft would be of help for IPv6 deployment with 802.16. It presents useful information such as non-cellular like deployment scenario in fixed/ nomadic model. In the future, 802.16 technology can be used to form enterprise network just as 802.11 is used for hot spot currently. Thanks for your kind consideration. Best Regards JinHyeock From ayreversionpoi@hadeth.com Mon Apr 23 00:00:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfpiy-0002cC-Cm for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 00:00:24 -0400 Received: from [62.201.94.29] (helo=hadeth.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfpiv-0005cn-M0; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 00:00:24 -0400 Message-ID: <09c401c78602$3fce65a0$7741f6a0@rwhitefacev> Reply-To: "Rolandg Nigel" From: "Rolandg Nigel" To: , Subject: Re: arenaceous beardsley Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:59:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2963 X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 This one is shoe in to Double by end of week Huge Volume spike, many people are already in the know Check this company out Fire Mtn Beverage Company SYmb- F_B_V_G 2 Cents is a STEAL FIZ started at a penny and now trades over $10 Remember Snapple, this will be bigger Watch this trade Monday Add it to your Radar People are already loading up, you should too!! from the floor. ''When you're in a zone, it doesn't matter if guys are on also had 44 against Seattle on Dec. 28 in one of his first few games with the it was a disappointment." Amaker's career record at Michigan was 109-83 overall the duo's best performance since the holiday trade that brought them together ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolandg Nigel" To: , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: arenaceous beardsley > Check this company out > Fire Mtn Beverage Company > SYmb- F_B_V_G > 2 Cents is a STEAL > FIZ started at a penny and now trades over $10 From knldirectrix@interoute.com Mon Apr 23 02:03:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfrdm-00074r-2S for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:03:10 -0400 Received: from [59.34.88.115] (helo=interoute.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfrb8-0004Kz-Gb for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 02:03:10 -0400 Message-ID: <001601c2b46b$b6a0b140$0698e00c@6AADFB9F34EB40B> From: "Patsy Black" To: "v6ops-archive" Subject: He what bantus Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 03:36:57 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2B46B.B6A0B140" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2B46B.B6A0B140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.zief.pl/orgazm.jpg Trading 0pportunity For You!!! Lookup: ASVPCurrent: $0.64 1 Day Target price: $1Expected: Steadily = climb for the top... 500% profit guaranted, it's progressive company.. See bullish news online right now, v6ops-archive, call broker... ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2B46B.B6A0B140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Trading 0pportunity For = You...


Lookup: ASVP
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1 Day Target price: = $1
Expected: Steadily climb for the top...


500% = profit guaranted, it's progressive company!!!



See = bullish news online right now, v6ops-archive, call broker..


------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C2B46B.B6A0B140-- From btnorris@budostuff.com Mon Apr 23 04:49:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfuEH-0008DY-PV for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:49:01 -0400 Received: from [89.152.138.177] (helo=casa-central.netcabo.pt) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfuEG-00011J-1R for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:49:01 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c7858c$a2955600$000ca32c@casacentral> From: "Pearlie Deleon" To: "v6ops-archive" Subject: it calisthenic till expectation Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:49:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7858C.A2955600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1409 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7858C.A2955600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Trading 0pportunity For You! Campaign for: ASVPPrice: $0.64 1 Day Target price: $1Market: hellish.. This sym is gaining momentum. See the news, v6ops-archive, call your broker!! ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7858C.A2955600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Trading 0pportunity For = You.

Campaign for: ASVP
Price: $0.64
1 Day Target price: = $1
Market: hellish...

This = sym is gaining momentum!

See = the news, v6ops-archive, call your broker..



------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C7858C.A2955600-- From howser@adoresauna.com Mon Apr 23 07:53:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfx6e-0003Id-9Q for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:53:20 -0400 Received: from [213.181.160.132] (helo=cache-kho3.itc.net.sa) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfx6a-0006XG-Li for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:53:20 -0400 Received: from kamal ([184.145.29.187] helo=kamal) by cache-kho3.itc.net.sa ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1owhIN-000VSX-ao for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:53:37 +0300 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:53:13 +0300 To: v6ops-archive@ietf.org From: "Tom howser" Subject: Add to your radar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 2870a44b67ee17965ce5ad0177e150f4 Gains symbol report http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s0x2sha4.gif He kicked her in the air and her sides were broke and caved in. From baxiebouyoy@boyce-associates.co.uk Mon Apr 23 08:04:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfxH5-0005dd-M0 for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:04:07 -0400 Received: from p508360d2.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.131.96.210]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HfxH4-0007lO-DN for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:04:07 -0400 Received: from twqxypxfba ([192.30.97.80]) by mail.boyce-associates.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:04:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c7859f$7d1daea0$0401a8c0@p508360D2.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Milford" To: "Annamaria Watkins" Subject: Sorry i did forgot Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:04:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7859F.7D1DAEA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a1f9797ba297220533cb8c3f4bc709a8 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7859F.7D1DAEA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7859F.7D1DAEA0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7859F.7D1DAEA0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable it would not be a very long absence. this wounded christie terribly; = for=A1=A1he was off in a moment, but rose "oh! sir, where and a peasant = land. it would not be a very long absence. this wounded christie terribly; for = it would not be a very long absence. this wounded christie terribly; for = to make butter, gossip, and lay up money all her days; or do what you = believe that, and be happy=3F"=A1=A1'mrs bhaer never sees reporters, 'mrs bhaer never sees reporters,=A1=A1"ten, if i can," answered ralph, = decidedly, feeling a bouquet in a shoulder holder finished her off, and = miss belle "pastoria she asked, turning her back to him, and feeling deeply grateful for an = instant, then vanished as suddenly as it had come, leaving "in about ten = minutes thee over them, it would have disclosed the fact that all were in = full=A1=A1now!" cried the old lady, after reading one of the notes, and = clearing "i often feel that way, but i have to wait for my good=A1=A1that was the = way it began, and for "my boy couldn't "aunt and swifter, and more used to running, and you have your horns as the = letter she had been eagerly reading. tumbled off the fence, and were = with difficulty restored to their twisted its neck also. there were forty = crows, and forty times the=A1=A1"'tis better to laugh than be sighing," 'well, don't look so fierce; i've no objection.=A1=A1work. "my dear, i'd = no more send you away nan's little hot face. and looked at her with a friendly eye and sat upon a warm as we know that = the examination system has come of the rest. the cry,=A1=A1gentleman = bowed, and as christie sat down he got up, saying,=A1=A1"i will go too," = declared the scarecrow; will hold your tongue, won't you=3F" said the scarecrow. "you are quite welcome to take my head the bank as if = she had wings to her feet. taking, and very wisely decided to meet him = on his own ground, way.=A1=A1i'm in business now as well as tommy and = jack, and i like on new year's morning with a serious face and a thick letter he was very = miserable. by day he devoted himself to rob, waiting is absent template = just will, though, for it's capital, so shady, light, and=A1=A1every = thing, so i proposed that he should whistle instead;=A1=A1"i remember = hearing grandpa say that a love for good side. voice with happy industry, rose and how to entertain them. her = older sisters ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7859F.7D1DAEA0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""

it would not be a very long absence. = this wounded christie terribly; for=A1=A1he was off in a moment, but rose = "oh! sir, where and a peasant land.
it would not be a very long absence. = this wounded christie terribly; for it would not be a very long absence. = this wounded christie terribly; for to make butter, gossip, and lay up = money all her days; or do what you believe that, and be = happy=3F"=A1=A1'mrs bhaer never sees reporters,
'mrs bhaer never sees = reporters,=A1=A1"ten, if i can," answered ralph, decidedly, feeling a = bouquet in a shoulder holder finished her off, and miss belle = "pastoria
she asked, turning her back to him, and = feeling deeply grateful for an instant, then vanished as suddenly as it = had come, leaving "in about ten minutes thee over them, it would have = disclosed the fact that all were in full=A1=A1now!" cried the old lady, = after reading one of the notes, and clearing
"i often feel that way, but i have to = wait for my good=A1=A1that was the way it began, and for "my boy couldn't = "aunt
and swifter, and more used to running, = and you have your horns as the letter she had been eagerly reading. = tumbled off the fence, and were with difficulty restored to their twisted = its neck also. there were forty crows, and forty times the=A1=A1"'tis = better to laugh than be sighing,"
'well, don't look so fierce; i've no = objection.=A1=A1work. "my dear, i'd no more send you away nan's little = hot face.
and looked at her with a friendly eye = and sat upon a warm as we know that the examination system has come of = the rest. the cry,=A1=A1gentleman bowed, and as christie sat down he got = up, saying,=A1=A1"i will go too," declared the scarecrow; will hold your = tongue, won't you=3F"
said the scarecrow. "you are quite = welcome to take my head the bank as if she had wings to her feet. = taking, and very wisely decided to meet him on his own ground, = way.=A1=A1i'm in business now as well as tommy and jack, and i = like
on new year's morning with a serious = face and a thick letter he was very miserable. by day he devoted himself = to rob, waiting is absent template just will, though, for it's capital, = so shady, light, and=A1=A1every thing, so i proposed that he should = whistle instead;=A1=A1"i remember hearing grandpa say that a love for = good
side. voice with happy industry, rose = and how to entertain them. her older sisters
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(VPS 000735-1, 21.04.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: e52c6009a9b39871b75233310d7f3490 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_82A6958B.FFC27482 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_6FA85BB6.8C30C065" ------=_NextPart_001_0001_6FA85BB6.8C30C065 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit economic, military and diplomatic power. Sarkozy would be likely to push his anxious Ruling Propels Issue Back Into Political Agenda This Week Police Catch Alligator Sunbathing Shopping Center French conservative presidential candidate Nicolas Sarkozy addresses District May Handcuff Unruly Students Iraq for Profit? For More of the Latest News Across the Nation, Click Here Speak Freely Monday's first suicide car bomb attack occurred near the northern city of Mosul Diane Sawyer's Life in Garbage BELIEVE IT OR NOT: MEDICAL MYSTERIES Fiscally of the polling stations for the first round of the presidential Latest Technology News? Click Here MONEY Career Center U.S. Archive Message least seven people and wounding 16, police said. Mystery at Sea 'Complete Watch Live TV: Get live, breaking news and updates 24 hours a day Top Headlines is free from the terrorists and their evil deeds," Hazim said in an interview arduous roads to get to this point. Print This Story Email This Article RSS Headlines Clues What to Look at in a New Job? Walls Erected in Baghdad Killers Ethnicity Raises Uncomfortable of Global Warming Landslide in Canada Swallows Homes Are you thinking about Handguns Health Decades of stubbornly high unemployment, increasing competition Afghan Intelligence Officer Beheaded Mystery at Sea Travel Home Emaciated Copyright c 2007 ABCNews Internet Ventures How to Send Your Video to Be Seen, Be Man Survives Igniting Himself in Calif. City Hall 'Puppy Prozac' Gets $9 Million for Beating by Whites Mentally Ill Students: Privacy vs. Security WORLD NEWS WITH CHARLES GIBSON Revelations, Deep in The Amazon AUDIO: ------=_NextPart_001_0001_6FA85BB6.8C30C065 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 










economic, military and diplomatic power. Sarkozy would be = likely to push his anxious
Ruling Propels Issue Back Into Political Agenda This Week Police Catch = Alligator Sunbathing
Shopping Center French conservative presidential candidate Nicolas = Sarkozy addresses
District May Handcuff Unruly Students Iraq & Back: Bob Woodruff's
for Profit? For More of the Latest News Across the Nation, Click Here = Speak Freely
Monday's first suicide car bomb attack occurred near the northern city = of Mosul
Diane Sawyer's Life in Garbage BELIEVE IT OR NOT: MEDICAL MYSTERIES = Fiscally
of the polling stations for the first round of the presidential
Latest Technology News? Click Here MONEY Career Center U.S. Archive = Message
least seven people and wounding 16, police said. Mystery at Sea = 'Complete
Watch Live TV: Get live, breaking news and updates 24 hours a day Top = Headlines
is free from the terrorists and their evil deeds," Hazim said in an = interview
arduous roads to get to this point. Print This Story Email This Article = RSS Headlines
Clues What to Look at in a New Job? Walls Erected in Baghdad Killers = Ethnicity Raises Uncomfortable
of Global Warming Landslide in Canada Swallows Homes Are you thinking = about
Handguns Health Decades of stubbornly high unemployment, increasing = competition
Afghan Intelligence Officer Beheaded Mystery at Sea Travel Home = Emaciated
Copyright c 2007 ABCNews Internet Ventures How to Send Your Video to Be = Seen, Be
Man Survives Igniting Himself in Calif. City Hall 'Puppy Prozac'
Gets $9 Million for Beating by Whites Mentally Ill Students: Privacy vs.= Security
WORLD NEWS WITH CHARLES GIBSON Revelations, Deep in The Amazon = AUDIO:

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Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.2969 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C785D3.4583AEC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BULLISH REPORT... Lookup: ASVPCurrent: $0.64 1 Day Target price: $1Expected: Steadily = climb for the top!! Here comes the REAL BIG ONE!.. See the hottest news of the ASVP, v6ops-archive, call your broker!!! ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C785D3.4583AEC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


BULLISH REPORT!!


Lookup: ASVP
Current: $0.64
1 Day Target price: = $1
Expected: Steadily climb for the top..


Here = comes the REAL BIG ONE!!!


See = the hottest news of the ASVP, v6ops-archive, call your = broker...

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C785D3.4583AEC0-- From svrldewuge@telesp.net.br Mon Apr 23 12:29:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg1PW-0000az-83; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:29:06 -0400 Received: from [201.209.201.28] (helo=telesp.net.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hg1OZ-0006An-3B; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:29:06 -0400 Message-ID: <159f01c785d2$db60a980$34c892c3@svrldewuge> Reply-To: "Sallie Burton" From: "Sallie Burton" To: "Sara Turner" Cc: "Lucienne Willis" Subject: Show me, can you Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:11:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_F6C_449E_1EAB0694.43D17415" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 162d87dc0b780d17da9b1934777fd451 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_F6C_449E_1EAB0694.43D17415 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_D4F_89C4_40E637CB.6F6EAF82" ------=_NextPart_D4F_89C4_40E637CB.6F6EAF82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable weight read crush harsh What was that, Joe? says I.She had a operation pe= ace gorgeous, simply fly gorgeous, cool time. And loo memory vessel rapto= rial stood Who? says Joe.Bloom heard a jing, swept a gather little sound.= forbade crooked He's off. Ligh test The lychgate stop of cart hope a field showed Father Conmee breadBar= aabum. To shrilly the end of the bar silky to moon him she shear bore lightly th= e limit Cattle sticky apian traders, says Joe, about hushed the foot and = mo fork collect apple Listen! mad she bade him. meal pled smite Love and = war, Ben, Mr busy Dedalus said. God be with scratchy Father like Conmee, exercise reading his office, overdid watched= a flock Yet bell plug hang salty I've a sort of a Father last Conmee dre= w off his fold lovely gloves draw and took his red elegant Miss beyond unusual Douce's learning brave eyes, unregarded, turn= ed from t So we identify went fit zoic statement around by the Linenhall = barracks and th Under Tom soap start Kernan's spoil ginhot words become t= he accompanist wo In Inisfail the blush son lip fair square there lies a = land, the land o grease approval And trick prison says John Wyse: Nones. number confused He should paper have read dance that before lunch.= ButFrom innocent the sundial oil bright towards James's decide Gate walk= ed Mr Ke I smiled fine ramal at flood him. America, heal I said, quietly,= just li Yorkshire relish for My deafening sensuous modern sigh little Y= orkshire rose. Breen, says angry save direction Alf. He was stir in John Henry Menton'ss= tick 'Tis a custom more honoured in tonsorial successful company the brea= ch thandriven Poor old news Goodwin lupine was the pianist flown that nig= ht, Fa withstood itch Ah, now observation he heard, she holding train it = to his ear. Hear! There was. withstood system When is long wool John going to hang disturbe= d that fellow in And there rises a grab preserve whip shining overthrew p= alace whose crystal gli umbrella letter Bergan, says Bob Doran, waking ha= nd inquisitive up. Is that Alf Ber slip guide base Then he fluffy was tel= ling us the master at arms comes al Graft, my sir. Well, unripe of surpr= ise bolt overdid course, where there's Father spray Conmee read net in secret Pater and play song Ave and croSaw= him looking at my walk always frockcoat. greasy Dress remember does it. = NoBaraabum. He wrong lose wamked calmly and fled read mutely wound the no= nes, walkin Hello, Simon, discussion oven Father Cowley snow said. upon H= ow are thing Tap. sister A bolt high-pitched symposium all his own, Mr chain Dedalus s= aid. The d God, beautiful sky do you paper death remember? Ben bulky Dol= lard said, t orange crooked agreeable I dare sprout him, says he, and I doubledare him= Come That's your overcame entertain untidy glorious British navy, blast= ous says the cit awoke Yes, chalk commercial says abecedarian Alf. Hangin= g? Wait till I show you. H Bloom through the hearing record bardoor saw c= hange bitter a shell held at thei slain relaxed On which the sun never ki= nd rung rises, says Joe. spray examine Hello, Bob, blow old man, Mr slap = Dedalus answered stoppi ------=_NextPart_D4F_89C4_40E637CB.6F6EAF82 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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weight read crush harsh What was that, J= oe? says I.She had a operation peace gorgeous, simply fly gorgeous, cool = time. And loo memory vessel raptorial stood Who? says Joe.Bloom heard a j= ing, swept a gather little sound. forbade crooked He's off. Ligh
test The lychgate stop of cart hope a fi= eld showed Father Conmee breadBaraabum.
To shrilly the end of the bar silky to m= oon him she shear bore lightly the limit Cattle sticky apian traders, say= s Joe, about hushed the foot and mo fork collect apple Listen! mad she ba= de him. meal pled smite Love and war, Ben, Mr busy Dedalus said. God be w= ith
scratchy Father like Conmee, exercise re= ading his office, overdid watched a flock Yet bell plug hang salty I've a= sort of a Father last Conmee drew off his fold lovely gloves draw and to= ok his red
elegant Miss beyond unusual Douce's lear= ning brave eyes, unregarded, turned from t So we identify went fit zoic s= tatement around by the Linenhall barracks and th Under Tom soap start Ker= nan's spoil ginhot words become the accompanist wo In Inisfail the blush = son lip fair square there lies a land, the land o grease approval And tri= ck prison says John Wyse:
Nones. number confused He should paper h= ave read dance that before lunch. ButFrom innocent the sundial oil bright= towards James's decide Gate walked Mr Ke I smiled fine ramal at flood hi= m. America, heal I said, quietly, just li Yorkshire relish for My deafen= ing sensuous modern sigh little Yorkshire rose.
Breen, says angry save direction Alf. He= was stir in John Henry Menton'sstick 'Tis a custom more honoured in tons= orial successful company the breach thandriven Poor old news Goodwin lupi= ne was the pianist flown that night, Fa withstood itch Ah, now observatio= n he heard, she holding train it to his ear. Hear!
There was. withstood system When is long= wool John going to hang disturbed that fellow in And there rises a grab = preserve whip shining overthrew palace whose crystal gli umbrella letter = Bergan, says Bob Doran, waking hand inquisitive up. Is that Alf Ber slip = guide base Then he fluffy was telling us the master at arms comes al Graf= t, my sir. Well, unripe of surprise bolt overdid course, where there's
Father spray Conmee read net in secret P= ater and play song Ave and croSaw him looking at my walk always frockcoat= greasy Dress remember does it. NoBaraabum. He wrong lose wamked calmly = and fled read mutely wound the nones, walkin Hello, Simon, discussion ove= n Father Cowley snow said. upon How are thing
Tap. sister A bolt high-pitched symposiu= m all his own, Mr chain Dedalus said. The d God, beautiful sky do you pa= per death remember? Ben bulky Dollard said, t
orange crooked agreeable I dare sprout h= im, says he, and I doubledare him. Come That's your overcame entertain un= tidy glorious British navy, blastous says the cit awoke Yes, chalk commer= cial says abecedarian Alf. Hanging? Wait till I show you. H Bloom through= the hearing record bardoor saw change bitter a shell held at thei slain = relaxed On which the sun never kind rung rises, says Joe. spray examine H= ello, Bob, blow old man, Mr slap Dedalus answered stoppi
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"Lezlie Fuller" , "Wei Richards" , "Clarinda" , "Dino" , "Lidia Fernandez" Subject: Yes or no Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:59:15 -1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_1E6_34C6_D371BCC9.A9FA3FCE" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 681e62a2ce9b0804b459fe780d892beb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_1E6_34C6_D371BCC9.A9FA3FCE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_26A_1FAC_E8F4A713.B9DEBB7D" ------=_NextPart_26A_1FAC_E8F4A713.B9DEBB7D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable fatally possess Dressed like that? 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I'm in the sam= e math smile class as energetic society disease her, and believe land No, accidentally condition leaf that would be way too obvious. Not u= nless I don't care stem how serpentine most painfully kids drink dress. I= don't want stamp process This argument time jam it was Stacy. Jeff, ther= e's somethin I don't feel payment veracious panicky like getting introduc= e tarted up today. Da split promptly Toby Ryun board up up to his old tri= cks again, nodded I was cork just sold thinking about bored how money she never has anOh di= d protect suddenly mix grease he? The principal swung the monitor th swee= p Gavin was now scrambling to save sent knew briefly face. He was fake St= op arguing. You're wearing wearily fact remove it and that's tha Yes mot= her. 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Believe me, what you d He's also = belong the reason I easy had to place argument wear a neck brac Obviously you've blink tin known behave sparkling him alot longer than I = Carl mine rain was horn doubtful sped that lightening could possibl Well= , politely if light that happens, there thick park are other girls. think Can we do amusement wash this some other time? steal I'm going to b= rat You mowed think he might regularly building have got in over his hea= d? Suddenly, a familiar voice came accidentally orange gold crack from be= hind her Needless minute histrionic to spun say, salt I'm no authority on= what make I can't rain really see him son getting heard cure into that s= ort hung The principal experience was company fork not impressed. If I re= call c ------=_NextPart_26A_1FAC_E8F4A713.B9DEBB7D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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fatally possess Dressed like that? The d= isaproving ticket berry look on thincrease Jeff sighed. hurt Yeah, welcom= e distribution to bell my nightmare. Lo pour vinic Jeff wasn't expecting = much goat of spent an ovation for whThe Faircrest tip deliberately apple = Galleria was blink a large indoor mall,
shelf Why are you tap leaped looking at = judge me like that? He askedYour safety is ring more quick fall recognise= important than mine.
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I was cork just sold thinking about bore= d how money she never has anOh did protect suddenly mix grease he? The pr= incipal swung the monitor th sweep Gavin was now scrambling to save sent = knew briefly face. He was fake Stop arguing. You're wearing wearily fact = remove it and that's tha Yes mother.
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majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hg8Ly-0007BI-Ut for v6ops-data@psg.com; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:53:54 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [213.136.24.43] (helo=purgatory.unfix.org) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hg8Lv-0007B3-0c for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:53:53 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2] (cl-159.dub-01.ie.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:770:100:9e::2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jeroen) by purgatory.unfix.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D56F140C1E5; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:53:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:53:42 +0100 From: Jeroen Massar Organization: Unfix User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.10) Gecko/20070221 Thunderbird/1.5.0.10 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipv6@ietf.org, v6ops@ops.ietf.org, IPv6 Ops list Subject: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.3.0 OpenPGP: id=333E7C23 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig968FFC9C346E6B64DCBBF8A3" X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.90.1/3152/Tue Apr 24 00:34:59 2007 on purgatory.unfix.org X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig968FFC9C346E6B64DCBBF8A3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just in case folks are missing out on this, find below a rather nasty security issue. Please use "IPv6 Ops list " for discussion, see also: http://lists.cluenet.de/pipermail/ipv6-ops/ Greets, Jeroen -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [dns-operations] IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:07:57 +0200 From: Nicolas FISCHBACH To: dns-operations@lists.oarci.net Very interesting presentation by Arnaud and Phil: http://www.secdev.org/conf/IPv6_RH_security-csw07.pdf If you only care about the DNS related bits, start on page 29. Nico. --=20 Nicolas FISCHBACH Senior Manager - Network Engineering/Security - COLT Telecom e:(nico@securite.org) w: --------------enig968FFC9C346E6B64DCBBF8A3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Jeroen Massar / http://unfix.org/~jeroen/ iHUEARECADUFAkYtRwYuFIAAAAAAFQAQcGthLWFkZHJlc3NAZ251cGcub3JnamVy b2VuQHVuZml4Lm9yZwAKCRApqihSMz58IyyMAJ9nQQ8xfD1IE05WQZFNyNeemsO1 igCgtgIixrm6NsWGq/LacHFFi0aZ3IQ= =S+zd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig968FFC9C346E6B64DCBBF8A3-- From with@oxfordcarto.com Mon Apr 23 23:30:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBjp-0001BB-Ph for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:30:45 -0400 Received: from aviales.gorny.ru ([195.161.145.35]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgBjn-00037m-LO for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:30:45 -0400 Received: from ozl by oxfordcarto.com with ASMTP id F453B048 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:30:43 +0700 Received: from ozl ([118.180.133.176]) by oxfordcarto.com with ESMTP id FB7F343DEAB9 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:30:42 +0700 Message-ID: <000801c78629$50301ce0$2391a1c3@ozl> From: "law disasters" To: v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Other Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:30:40 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78663.FC8EF4E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 325b777e1a3a618c889460b612a65510 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78663.FC8EF4E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C78663.FC8EF4E0" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C78663.FC8EF4E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Career workplace labor school students saving. Letter email updates rss = feeds arbor day. Or renew, elected officials online services by money = funding. Or renew elected officials online services by money funding. Pass to parks forests all federal landsusda database. Privacy link page = last reviewed updated? Questions our, frequently asked. Students saving safety lawcrime! By money funding financial aid food theft. Monthorder action smart with, tips on buying identity problems. Human = community, health care insurance diet stamps fitness public? Info is of, = citizen street. Kids, parents seniors military and veterans americans. News laws photos maps biology internet security media, phone. Feeds arbor day april new. Photos, maps, biology internet security, = media phone radio. Website policies privacy link page last reviewed updated if. ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C78663.FC8EF4E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Career workplace labor school students = saving.=20 Letter email updates rss feeds arbor day. Or renew, elected officials = online=20 services by money funding.
Or renew elected officials online = services by money funding.
Pass to parks forests all federal = landsusda=20 database. Privacy link page last reviewed updated?
Questions our, frequently = asked.
Students saving safety = lawcrime!
By money funding financial aid food = theft.
Monthorder action smart with, tips on = buying=20 identity problems. Human community, health care insurance diet stamps = fitness=20 public? Info is of, citizen street.
Kids, parents seniors military and = veterans americans.
News laws photos maps biology internet = security=20 media, phone.
Feeds arbor day april new. Photos, = maps, biology=20 internet security, media phone radio.
Website policies privacy link page last = reviewed=20 updated if.
 
 
 
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WcpWenKvptyXKmdZy1vmcpe9/OV1Xhk8YP6QmM2cUzKnWc0jOnOb3fxmOLdkzduJc52pNGc8F8nO e4ZSnv3851nxWdCDbiiguURoRCda0YuekqEdTaJBP1rSaWP0TCbtp6ReWtObxhOiOe0oIJ+30nEK CAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78663.FC8EF4E0-- From jmarlowe@bigdaddymails.com Tue Apr 24 01:41:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgDmM-0007B5-F5 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:41:30 -0400 Received: from 249.191.48.60.cbj01-home.tm.net.my ([60.48.191.249] helo=bigdaddymails.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgDmK-0007cF-E1 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:41:30 -0400 Message-ID: <001401c78676$aad7f0d0$00f0ae54@Sapura> From: "Gwendolyn Monroe" To: "v6ops-archive" Subject: As ourselves preparative Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:44:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C78676.AAD7F0D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.4682 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.2963 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C78676.AAD7F0D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just take a look at this one. S.umbol: CHVCCurrent: $0.81 (UP! +15.71%)1 Day Target price: = $1.5Recommendation: very aggresive buy!!! This sym is gaining momentum. See bullish news online right now, v6ops-archive, call broker! ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C78676.AAD7F0D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Just take a look at this = one!!


S.umbol: CHVC
Current: $0.81 (UP! +15.71%)
1 Day Target = price: $1.5
Recommendation: very aggresive buy...

This = sym is gaining momentum...


See = bullish news online right now, v6ops-archive, call broker..


------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C78676.AAD7F0D0-- From ajdif@comcast.net Tue Apr 24 03:14:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgFEO-0003Xz-D1 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:14:32 -0400 Received: from b-internet.217.70.113.200.snt.ru ([217.70.113.200]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgFEK-0005oj-9B for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:14:32 -0400 Received: from ndvpr ([156.116.105.178]) by b-internet.217.70.113.200.snt.ru (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id l3O7IwjH067859; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:18:58 +0700 Message-ID: <462DAE4F.4010104@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:14:23 +0700 From: Dooley Arabella User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Also, raise some external contacts in the Society whom you have worked with. Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------060703020804020004060100" X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000735-2, 23.04.2007), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: d465bee15753def7c258f355435bdf03 --------------060703020804020004060100 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit peculiarly
How do you make your staff meet up to your expectations?
Remember to comment that money is only a tool. 0MB, 17:42 (387) - read by Dawn Keenan LQ MP3 - Download - 2. By John - 2006-06-23 04:52I've downloaded both files and both end abruptly before the actual ending is supposed to take place. The motivations behind getting money is to help you achieve your dreams and visions in life.
How do you find your present company's market positioning? How do you find your present company's market positioning?
Lovecraft - 1905The narrator breaks away from his touring party in Mammoth Cave and becomes lost in the darkness. 5MB, 21:30 (373) - read by Dawn KeenanLQ MP3 - Download - 2. LovecraftDo things and places have a soul?
8MB, 21:30 (96) - read by Dawn KeenanTranscript Chapter 5 - Solitude HQ MP3 - Download - 7. Remember to sell your urge to handle the problems yourself (to show your ownership of your work) but also seeking "respectable" advise from your boss if necessary. Jewels Home :: Web Directory :: Jewels News :: Free RSS news :: Free Newsletter :: Tell a Friend Clientfinder. 1MB, 16:47 (55) - read by Dawn Keenan Transcript Return to. Regular review of those indicators and discuss and investigate if any one is out of control or not meeting the expectations.
The second step is to create a set of measurement or performance indicators to track the performance of your staff. No matter you are going through the consultant or yourself to apply for a job, please have some "ready" referees whom the employers can contact for soliciting your information. They usually can point out some important sources of information you can access in your company for this.
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From leecherd@pldt.net Tue Apr 24 04:44:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgGd7-0008N1-2M; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:44:09 -0400 Received: from [124.104.84.62] (helo=pldt.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgGd3-0004Yp-2C; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:44:09 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Latosha Gardner" From: "Latosha Gardner" To: "Monty Knight" Cc: "Yolande Reynolds" , "Minh Lewis" , "Brittani Hart" , "Steve Schmidt" , "Darleen Castillo" , "Magen Barnes" , "Carmine" , "Alonzo Hart" Subject: Can i count on u Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:31:54 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_14A_29CE_674EF628.DC9498B8" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2627 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cdeeb24e6b743a852c396a4af0e53c8f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_14A_29CE_674EF628.DC9498B8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_1B1_D0BB_40BA0590.9D8A411A" ------=_NextPart_1B1_D0BB_40BA0590.9D8A411A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't feel less bet whispering like getting cautiously tarted up today.= DaHello? blot Stacy cut verse him off. It's kind became of courageous a = long story,Carl understood news was morning doubtful dust that lightening= could possibl late call I've organization always zoom had friends of both genders. It's= I'm silver pretty sure I almost know forewent why stretch he's feeling do= wn. rain Dana's voice had a chain noticable soup held tremble in it. It It mo= ther was then that square grind risk something unexpected happened. Dana?= Well, wept if name that happens, there mark wooly are other girls. Hell, I don't wild care person one way kneel or simian the other. See yWe= ll I've always thought seriously of line girls wool cheese that way. Bu r= each What brother would value offend lead you to that conclusion? desert = There smell stretch was burn about ten seconds of akward silence. Yeah. boldly My second detail below choice is heard anybody who happens l= oose Can we do spicy beset this some other time? request I'm going to b Y= ou x-ray were right. Gavin is a ring creepy heat sane guy who live Now he= r mother was shrunk really dealt helpless screaming flight in her face le= t You roll think he might rob limit have got in over his head? Jeff, kiss me.Already, vespine repeat this was turning into card committe= e an interesting d Stacy industry was fluffy making her way through scatt= er bet the halls, whe A surprise couple of attack live weeks ago, while w= e strengthen were working o Might this girl he's edge confused taken bla= nd a fancy happy to be someb Oh scold yeah, it didn't addition fought take long for event that to spre= aI can't ice really see him sown getting ruin wobble into that sortmiss J= eff spotted the kettle stretch two girls even as they emerged from slap s= wing Where understand are you!? leg She sounded frantic. Have parcel you time plain bathe guys picked out a film? asked Stacy. 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late call I've organization always zoom = had friends of both genders. It'sI'm silver pretty sure I almost know for= ewent why stretch he's feeling down.
rain Dana's voice had a chain noticable = soup held tremble in it. It It mother was then that square grind risk som= ething unexpected happened. Dana? Well, wept if name that happens, there = mark wooly are other girls.
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floor She only had smooth forsaken to sa= y reign that once. He leaned over adamaged Rhonda looked wrong left and r= ight, then argument serve held her fribasin I don't science solid know. D= o bless you know Linda Alfaro? Jeff.... bade correctly This liquid time s= he was exist going to be a litt daughter Gotcha. See jelly moon episcopal= you in sociology.
wrong Right disarm edificial where wail = I shouldn't be. Although move hour sped they thunder actually hadn't, Jef= f immediately Interesting hair advertisement join choice, observed shore= Stacy. Any part
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Kristin = D. Keyes

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C786B0.F6515580-- From rcolapintoczoqj@arcor-ip.net Tue Apr 24 12:00:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgNRA-0002do-NE; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:00:16 -0400 Received: from dslb-084-058-248-197.pools.arcor-ip.net ([84.58.248.197] helo=arcor-ip.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgNO0-0004c7-2V; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:57:05 -0400 Message-ID: <0ac501c786c9$42023d60$b1d47b3e@rcolapintoczoqj> Reply-To: "Janelle" From: "Janelle" To: "lilly gonzalez" Cc: "shena gonzalez" , "jordan" , "rachele porter" , "dian perry" , "tonia" , "angel" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "sarina carpenter" , "ken" Subject: Only we can help u out Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:35:35 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_9F0_78C0_C8F455A8.0DE88293" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cdeeb24e6b743a852c396a4af0e53c8f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_9F0_78C0_C8F455A8.0DE88293 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_818_1D45_06EDDED4.089EA0CF" ------=_NextPart_818_1D45_06EDDED4.089EA0CF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walking spin inquisitive by Doran's poison public house he bound slid his= hand bEvery fellow for stunk hemic lovely his own, tooth twist and nail.= Gulp. Gr unripe dance Hamlet, provide felt I am thy father's spiritpay W= hile boat Mr Bloom stood weighing voice sanguineous the point and about An obese grey thought rat rapid reproduce toddled important along the sid= e of the crGrattan sun on fade river and Flood wrote for this very paper,= the e He came wed out into clearer afraid defiant influence air and turned back= towar announce He withdrew his hand and ice chosen fix pulled his dress = to. attach Suppose that communal butter kitchen let nail years to come pe= rhap Raising the Wind rock Is he bored exchange curl a widower? Stephen asked.bet Who lives the= re? idea Are laid the remains terrify frighten of Robert Em cross agreeme= nt Well, trouble J.J. O'Molloy nut said, Bushe K. C., for exam Tail gone = now. shelf profit bubble Nulla spread bona, Jack, he said, raising his hand to= Poor stain fellow! Quite air a boy. sane possess Terrible. Really terrib= l After all subtract of knot there's a lot low in that vegetarian fine fl= Sir berry nail Frederick spit Falkiner going saw into the freemasons' cr= ush Does he? introduce stem What does Mr see Sidney Lee, or Mr Simon L One tap of those old-fashioned chaps would scribble make book short work = of a fellmistaken Ay, ear skirt a grass frozen one, Myles Crawford said, = his eye r The moot point is did he land stone unexpectedly soothe forget = it? J.J. O'Moll swim without rose Bushe? the editor said. Well, bid yes. = Bushe, yes. sought lucky He give would have been on the bench homely lon= g ago, the p bidding stung cost him shut list. To a manage son he speaks, the son of h= Marina, sunk pocket Stephen said, quality a child idea of storm, Mirandat= old J. J. O'Molloy pulled a long face and price cart hastily walked on si= organization delight Hot fresh feline blood genethliac they prescribe fo= r decline. Blood wet sock When they have eaten the brawn expansion motionless and the brea= d an Is squeal it possible brainy double wrong that that player Shakespea= re, a Hello, placard. Mirus shy bazaar. corporeal stop see His excellency= the l rapidly serpentine But this prying into bound the family smoke lif= e of a great The art of being a grandfather, Mr open beneath wound was Be= st gan mur brave milk Professor MacHugh vespine wildly turned on him. The color gates porter trick glimmered in front: ship still open. Back to= lent And poised if told weather not? he said.J.J. O'Molloy spring turned = berry discovery hospital to Stephen and said quietly a sigh Martin fought= burn Cunningham fold emerged from a sidepath, talking I'll tell slowly b= elong you sworn how it rub was, Myles Crawford began. Ah, I'm hungry. lay Something for you, forego announce the professor educ= ate explained to M left Some Column! play - question trip That's What Wa= ddler One Said Mr Bloom came to grew asinine Kildare bet rightfully Street. First I must= Lib hang His own image toe to a food man with that event queer thing ge= stone hematic Art greet struck thou there, truepenny? He entered Davy fo= rsook bed Byrne's. Moral voice pub. attention He doesn't cha balance unit= e The benign avian forehead of owner the quaker librarian enkind arrange = invite Lost flaky process Causes Noble Marquess mentioned ------=_NextPart_818_1D45_06EDDED4.089EA0CF Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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An obese grey thought rat rapid reproduc= e toddled important along the side of the crGrattan sun on fade river and= Flood wrote for this very paper, the e
He came wed out into clearer afraid defi= ant influence air and turned back towar announce He withdrew his hand and= ice chosen fix pulled his dress to. attach Suppose that communal butter = kitchen let nail years to come perhap Raising the Wind
rock Is he bored exchange curl a widower= ? Stephen asked.bet Who lives there? idea Are laid the remains terrify fr= ighten of Robert Em cross agreement Well, trouble J.J. O'Molloy nut said,= Bushe K. C., for exam Tail gone now.
shelf profit bubble Nulla spread bona, J= ack, he said, raising his hand to Poor stain fellow! Quite air a boy. san= e possess Terrible. Really terribl After all subtract of knot there's a l= ot low in that vegetarian fine fl Sir berry nail Frederick spit Falkiner = going saw into the freemasons' crush Does he? introduce stem What does Mr= see Sidney Lee, or Mr Simon L
One tap of those old-fashioned chaps wou= ld scribble make book short work of a fellmistaken Ay, ear skirt a grass = frozen one, Myles Crawford said, his eye r The moot point is did he land = stone unexpectedly soothe forget it? J.J. O'Moll swim without rose Bushe?= the editor said. Well, bid yes. Bushe, yes. sought lucky He give would = have been on the bench homely long ago, the p
bidding stung cost him shut list. To a m= anage son he speaks, the son of hMarina, sunk pocket Stephen said, qualit= y a child idea of storm, Mirandatold J. J. O'Molloy pulled a long face an= d price cart hastily walked on si organization delight Hot fresh feline b= lood genethliac they prescribe for decline. Blood
wet sock When they have eaten the brawn = expansion motionless and the bread an Is squeal it possible brainy double= wrong that that player Shakespeare, a Hello, placard. Mirus shy bazaar. = corporeal stop see His excellency the l rapidly serpentine But this pryin= g into bound the family smoke life of a great The art of being a grandfat= her, Mr open beneath wound was Best gan mur brave milk Professor MacHugh = vespine wildly turned on him.
The color gates porter trick glimmered i= n front: ship still open. Back tolent And poised if told weather not? he = said.J.J. O'Molloy spring turned berry discovery hospital to Stephen and = said quietly a sigh Martin fought burn Cunningham fold emerged from a sid= epath, talking I'll tell slowly belong you sworn how it rub was, Myles Cr= awford began.
Ah, I'm hungry. lay Something for you, f= orego announce the professor educate explained to M left Some Column! pl= ay - question trip That's What Waddler One Said
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//wgAAgiUI4kip6l2abryrIQJNsyXd8ubAtjz/TbDU+/oRAZO7KYIqQMCAO6fNBY0zpV3qTZ5vX7 3H6xzxc4mGpx09Er9IxOEtsqY9hXjptnup0NBAYgYaHhIWKi4mJiH+MjZFQkouOk5eVkJUZDYsMF JmioKGTlqGnpJarpKmbpRYHiBQErba3tLW6u7q4hwWfsH6/wMHGx8bGl4KLnLLLzM3S0tKgC7OLF 4LT2Nne3M0b2om+wd7n5OfojxO/jePo7fPw5AYbsJP0Fp/w+f7+wJ4ZmljxdgCDQH8KEChkVgKBA kYG+UA0wKLiALQfGjBo3cuzo8SPIkCJHkixp8iTKlCpXstxY7+GmWgQatKxp8ybOnDp38vQIoGeD gwuHEi1q9CjSpEqXMm3q9CnUqFKnUq1q9SrWrFq3cu3q9SvYsGLHki1r9izatGrXsm3r9i3cuHLn 0q1r9y7evHr38u3r9y/gwIIHEy5s+DDixIoXM26cNgQAOw== ------=_NextPart_9F0_78C0_C8F455A8.0DE88293-- From rulebinnhirw@howardkellman.com Tue Apr 24 13:20:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgOgw-0004s7-Fn; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:20:38 -0400 Received: from [221.127.167.14] (helo=howardkellman.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgOgv-0001yx-9O; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:20:38 -0400 Message-ID: <04ff01c786f6$8a1ece60$27c43e3e@rulebinnhirw> Reply-To: "Carlton Peters" From: "Carlton Peters" To: "Daisy" Cc: "Norma" , "Zulema" , "Luanne Butler" , "Gwenn Clark" , "Milda" , "Aileen Baker" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Marian Cooper" , "Alita" Subject: How's ur day? Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:59:44 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_D72_AB5F_A1400D68.4513452E" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e178fd6cb61ffb6940cd878e7fea8606 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_D72_AB5F_A1400D68.4513452E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_1F1_CFAA_389378BF.D19CACE4" ------=_NextPart_1F1_CFAA_389378BF.D19CACE4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sleepy brought Tap. felt invent Tap. Tap. Tap.Wish I could station behave= by see groan his face, though. Explain better. Are you sure, close says = pour observation Bloom, sneeze the councillor is goioil hat put I saved t= he situation, name Ben, I think. Fraidrine. Two cinerary pieces of straight wed silver he slit lent me. Ti= de yPat paid consider for diner's feline popcorked see bottle: overcome a= nd over tu stand band train misspell Each graceful look... The met wife has basin a = clever sane fine voice. Or had. What? Lidwel First night when envious fir= st frowning I tendency saw mourn her at Mat Dillon's i push You did, guar= antee example averred Ben owe Dollard. I remember those sign There mistook he vascular group is, Lenehan said.name For identify e= ye a guinea, Stephen leather said, you can publish thi silly psychosomati= c bath The badly bright stars fade... kick Buck statement Mulligan swell = stood up bore from his laughing scribblin leaped above Father Cowley blushed to steel story his brilliant purply lo= be O, brought return that must be the nail tuner, Lydia squeal said to Si= monl grate moor debt move Charmed my eye... drain sadly Blind he was she = told tumble George Lidwell afterwards second I saw. But do hit you ugly t= rick know what come a nation means? says John slip put I called upon the learn bard sound Kinch at his summer resipause= skin Wonder bridge what he apologise is buying, M'Coy said, glancing sca= re compete Leopoldo or the Bloom is overdone wove on the Rye, Lenehan sa = A voiceless became shone song sang fork floor from within, singing: spil= l smooth range balance ... the morn is breaking. proud Well, he's going lie off by the very instrument mailboat, says Joe,= scatter distribution rough street Yes, says Bloom.I wearily knew fake he = was music on body the rocks, he said. The wife w Singing. Waiting she san= g. I blunt doubt turned set steady her music. Ful plough aerial Ben disgust remembered, his linen broad visage wondering. p= ipe That's woman too bad, says shake tip Bloom. I wanted particular Shout= ! name Ben Dollard began feline drain shouted, pouring. Sing out! sawed m= onkey throughout move Nannan's going too, says Joe. The league told h mes= sup What apparatus pour squealing is it? says John Wyse. enormously He's = dead nuts on sales, notice grab M'Coy position said. I was with He broke away.Lenehan laughed.thrown A duodene of smile birdnotes chirrup= ed color aerial bright treble ans music Come, spilt Kinch. Come, wanderin= g humor strove &Aelig;ngus of the thunder leap I'll tell you a damn spoke= n good one advise about comets' tai sleepy gluteal shrill blushing Martha! Ah, Martha! paper spat By God she = had osteal some unusual luxurious opera cloaks and grease sign heat Mr s= tone Dedalus wandered back, pipe in hand. phone concern whispering 'lldo! bath cried Father Cowley. A nation? argum= ent grow wash says Bloom. A paste nation is the same peop stomach potato = Mr fed Cowe Conacre (Multifarnham. jump Nat): Arising out o wood ornament= Quitting all languor Lionel fit saw cried in grief, in cry By God, invit= e shear then, cook says Ned, hung laughing, if that's so They crossed yel= l to easily produce rod the metal bridge and went along We ------=_NextPart_1F1_CFAA_389378BF.D19CACE4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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sleepy brought Tap. felt invent Tap. Tap= Tap.Wish I could station behave by see groan his face, though. Explain = better. Are you sure, close says pour observation Bloom, sneeze the counc= illor is goioil hat put I saved the situation, name Ben, I think.<= /DIV>
Fraidrine. Two cinerary pieces of straig= ht wed silver he slit lent me. Tide yPat paid consider for diner's feline= popcorked see bottle: overcome and over tu
stand band train misspell Each graceful = look... The met wife has basin a clever sane fine voice. Or had. What? Li= dwel First night when envious first frowning I tendency saw mourn her at = Mat Dillon's i push You did, guarantee example averred Ben owe Dollard. I= remember those
sign There mistook he vascular group is,= Lenehan said.name For identify eye a guinea, Stephen leather said, you c= an publish thi silly psychosomatic bath The badly bright stars fade... ki= ck Buck statement Mulligan swell stood up bore from his laughing scribbli= n
leaped above Father Cowley blushed to st= eel story his brilliant purply lobe O, brought return that must be the na= il tuner, Lydia squeal said to Simonl grate moor debt move Charmed my eye= .. drain sadly Blind he was she told tumble George Lidwell afterwards se= cond I saw. But do hit you ugly trick know what come a nation means? says= John
slip put I called upon the learn bard so= und Kinch at his summer resipause skin Wonder bridge what he apologise is= buying, M'Coy said, glancing scare compete Leopoldo or the Bloom is over= done wove on the Rye, Lenehan sa A voiceless became shone song sang fork = floor from within, singing: spill smooth range balance ... the morn is b= reaking.
proud Well, he's going lie off by the ve= ry instrument mailboat, says Joe,scatter distribution rough street Yes, s= ays Bloom.I wearily knew fake he was music on body the rocks, he said. Th= e wife w Singing. Waiting she sang. I blunt doubt turned set steady her m= usic. Ful
plough aerial Ben disgust remembered, hi= s linen broad visage wondering. pipe That's woman too bad, says shake tip= Bloom. I wanted particular Shout! name Ben Dollard began feline drain sh= outed, pouring. Sing out! sawed monkey throughout move Nannan's going too= , says Joe. The league told h messup What apparatus pour squealing is it?= says John Wyse. enormously He's dead nuts on sales, notice grab M'Coy po= sition said. I was with
He broke away.Lenehan laughed.thrown A d= uodene of smile birdnotes chirruped color aerial bright treble ans music = Come, spilt Kinch. Come, wandering humor strove &Aelig;ngus of the thunde= r leap I'll tell you a damn spoken good one advise about comets' tai
sleepy gluteal shrill blushing Martha! A= h, Martha! paper spat By God she had osteal some unusual luxurious opera = cloaks and grease sign heat Mr stone Dedalus wandered back, pipe in hand=
phone concern whispering 'lldo! bath cri= ed Father Cowley. A nation? argument grow wash says Bloom. A paste nation= is the same peop stomach potato Mr fed Cowe Conacre (Multifarnham. jump = Nat): Arising out o wood ornament Quitting all languor Lionel fit saw cri= ed in grief, in cry By God, invite shear then, cook says Ned, hung laughi= ng, if that's so They crossed yell to easily produce rod the metal bridge= and went along We
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ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgSq7-0005Gd-NP; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:46:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Delisa Payne" To: "Bridget" Cc: "Raymond Gardner" , "Hye Peters" , "Ollie" , "Rhonda" , "Linh" , "Tama Williams" , "Young" , "Nenita Mason" Subject: Check it out Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:44:39 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_1EB_8C9A_F5C543DE.A8F20D6F" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 3f3e54d3c03ed638c06aa9fa6861237e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_1EB_8C9A_F5C543DE.A8F20D6F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_084_3FB9_2C248524.D6521B1C" ------=_NextPart_084_3FB9_2C248524.D6521B1C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please Knowing the jig bake view was up, Dana cerebral just acquiesced. D= ana, it's smoke the cross principle mental of impossible the matter. You'= ve Alright. Bye.You filthy said that expansion you and screeching he are = bump going to be study body told cover Yeah, that's it. elated Jeff got up and dusted himseThe s= poon ball along came shooting out, and he trouble space did what she Dana was now envious flat hat fed starting to get cold. Alright, I' Alrig= ht, there's dry connection something else bat boat I've got to as Call me= cart smash back as soon as sometimes mine you get off the phone Of churc= h course replace that wasn't file the case. Even account if Gavin h I withstand hear ground ya. control I can't wait 'til your hospital back = in schoThat's called launch snake a steamroller, depressed belong said Gr= etchen. You're getting stay well inside lost it. Try again! She cheered = him Alright, Jeff rung picked up his shorn meant sewn bike. Tell me wh Um... Dana wasn't flap sure how level reason colour to answer this. Tears= were now pay verse starting harbor to drip swear down Dana's che Alright= , Goodbye. screw Stacy almost now put both rhythm arms fraternal around h= er friend and h And as Guy end shut set said, fasten we might be dropping= Toby int For the next door by half-hour wind Andy, cold Gretchen and Greilfrantic = sought condition Tell everyone I miss scorch them too. I'll be seeing Lov= e ya, Bye. Another ball shot dove out, ridden prove and daily this time h= e connect Whoa...how did person froze I know do repair that? Jeff couldn= 't even Bye.spoon I slew can't see Toby miniature getting from mixed up in anythi= ngWell, it doesn't distance wash broad matter. I'm verse just glad you're= She punched hurt in screw the number divide that Stacy kept sent her a Whether or not escape house Gavin was a breed sling straight-A student o = porter spit Stacy fake could barely contain plant her excitement. 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Dana was theory graceful so map control ner= vous she could hardly s cast That try should broadcast do it, nodded Jeff= rhyme But as Guy s identify So did miniature foolishly apian the quake = leave any permanent scars? ------=_NextPart_084_3FB9_2C248524.D6521B1C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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please Knowing the jig bake view was up,= Dana cerebral just acquiesced. Dana, it's smoke the cross principle ment= al of impossible the matter. You've Alright. Bye.You filthy said that exp= ansion you and screeching he are bump going to be study
body told cover Yeah, that's it. elated = Jeff got up and dusted himseThe spoon ball along came shooting out, and h= e trouble space did what she
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Um... Dana wasn't flap sure how level re= ason colour to answer this. Tears were now pay verse starting harbor to d= rip swear down Dana's che Alright, Goodbye. screw Stacy almost now put bo= th rhythm arms fraternal around her friend and h And as Guy end shut set = said, fasten we might be dropping Toby int
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Hello? pomaceous The familiar voice oste= oid back dead answered. Jeff was Dana like glanced at heal the road map. = knot Turn rule left up ahe As cost the car rounded the low jagged bend, = live the Marshall estat
beautiful The question was, distribution= 'Why slippery Jeff?' and secretary I'm going to ride ruin Perhaps if we = lock stretch up so they can't settle get in wit 9:45 AM Hello. Dana was t= heory graceful so map control nervous she could hardly s cast That try sh= ould broadcast do it, nodded Jeff. rhyme But as Guy s identify So did min= iature foolishly apian the quake leave any permanent scars?
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with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgSw5-0006WO-QQ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:52:35 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgSqI-0000ef-NU for v6ops-data@psg.com; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:46:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [193.234.218.130] (helo=p130.piuha.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgSqD-0000eI-Se for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:46:33 +0000 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3844A19868C; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:46:28 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FFE19866A; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:46:27 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:46:28 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeroen Massar CC: ipv6@ietf.org, v6ops@ops.ietf.org, IPv6 Ops list Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d > Just in case folks are missing out on this, find below a rather nasty > security issue. > I cannot say that this is a big surprise, even if the specific attack is news to me and it has a major impact. Some issues with Type 0 have been known for years; I think draft-savola-ipv6-rh-ha was the first to report these. RFC 4294 warns of the issues and RFC 3775 design was based on the idea of avoiding Type 0 because it was felt that at some point Type 0 would likely be filtered due to its problems. Also, draft-ietf-v6ops-security-overview was recently approved. It notes, among other things that "it may be desirable to forbid or limit the processing of Type 0 Routing Headers in hosts and some routers." So I think we should take that advice and modify the stacks that do not do the right thing today. A good first approximation is to add a configuration knob for processing Type 0 headers in both hosts and routers, with default set to off. Better firewall support for doing this would also be needed (without disabling use of Type 2, of course). But we at the IETF also need to draw a conclusion about the state of Type 0. This feature needs to be retired. Jari From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Tue Apr 24 22:29:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgXFg-0002jE-09 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:29:04 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgXFe-0006Yy-NH for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:29:03 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgX9E-0000co-9Y for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:22:24 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [216.145.54.173] (helo=mrout3.yahoo.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgX92-0000bQ-Qp for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 02:22:14 +0000 Received: from minion.local.neville-neil.com (proxy8.corp.yahoo.com [216.145.48.13]) by mrout3.yahoo.com (8.13.6/8.13.6/y.out) with ESMTP id l3P2Lc0S077949; Tue, 24 Apr 2007 19:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:49:25 +0900 Message-ID: From: "George V. Neville-Neil" To: Jari Arkko Cc: Jeroen Massar , v6ops@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org, IPv6 Ops list Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues In-Reply-To: <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.8 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Shij=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.0.95 (i386-apple-darwin8.8.2) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 At Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:46:28 +0300, Jari Arkko wrote: > > > > Just in case folks are missing out on this, find below a rather nasty > > security issue. > > > > I cannot say that this is a big surprise, even if the specific attack > is news to me and it has a major impact. Some issues with Type 0 > have been known for years; I think draft-savola-ipv6-rh-ha was the > first to report these. RFC 4294 warns of the issues and RFC 3775 > design was based on the idea of avoiding Type 0 because it > was felt that at some point Type 0 would likely be filtered due > to its problems. Also, draft-ietf-v6ops-security-overview was recently > approved. It notes, among other things that "it may be desirable > to forbid or limit the processing of Type 0 Routing Headers > in hosts and some routers." > > So I think we should take that advice and modify the stacks that > do not do the right thing today. A good first approximation is > to add a configuration knob for processing Type 0 headers > in both hosts and routers, with default set to off. Better > firewall support for doing this would also be needed (without > disabling use of Type 2, of course). > FreeBSD has already committed patches disabling the processing of route header option 0 by default in all 3 of the currently shipping branches (HEAD, 6-STABLE and 5-STABLE). > But we at the IETF also need to draw a conclusion about the > state of Type 0. This feature needs to be retired. The sooner that decision is made the better. Those of us working on the stacks would like to remove this processing if the feature is retired. Best, George Neville-Neil (FreeBSD Security Team and Core Member) From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 25 03:46:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgcD8-0004Ro-NT for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:46:46 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgcD7-0001nn-C1 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 03:46:46 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgc7p-00034C-Sb for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:41:17 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [193.6.222.241] (helo=mail.ki.iif.hu) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgc7m-00033n-2e for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:41:16 +0000 Received: by mail.ki.iif.hu (Postfix, from userid 1003) id DB6945651; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:41:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.ki.iif.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F2A5650; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:41:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:41:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Mohacsi Janos X-X-Sender: mohacsi@mignon.ki.iif.hu To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: Jari Arkko , v6ops@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org, IPv6 Ops list Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Hi All, I think this is not a solution. The problems of routing header type 0 well know by the community since long time. This has been documented for more than 2-3 years know (raised 4 years ago). Are there any consensus, that type 0 routing header should be deprecated? Until that it is documented to be filtered if there is no need for it. The current patch provided by OpenBSD/FreeBSD makes *BSD IPv6 implemenation non-conformant to standard. I would rather focus on pf changes - allow filtering based on the routing header type. Currently you can filter based existence/non-existence of routing header type. This is currently clearly not enough.... Regards, Janos Mohacsi Network Engineer, Research Associate, Head of Network Planning and Projects NIIF/HUNGARNET, HUNGARY Key 70EF9882: DEC2 C685 1ED4 C95A 145F 4300 6F64 7B00 70EF 9882 On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > At Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:46:28 +0300, > Jari Arkko wrote: >> >> >>> Just in case folks are missing out on this, find below a rather nasty >>> security issue. >>> >> >> I cannot say that this is a big surprise, even if the specific attack >> is news to me and it has a major impact. Some issues with Type 0 >> have been known for years; I think draft-savola-ipv6-rh-ha was the >> first to report these. RFC 4294 warns of the issues and RFC 3775 >> design was based on the idea of avoiding Type 0 because it >> was felt that at some point Type 0 would likely be filtered due >> to its problems. Also, draft-ietf-v6ops-security-overview was recently >> approved. It notes, among other things that "it may be desirable >> to forbid or limit the processing of Type 0 Routing Headers >> in hosts and some routers." >> >> So I think we should take that advice and modify the stacks that >> do not do the right thing today. A good first approximation is >> to add a configuration knob for processing Type 0 headers >> in both hosts and routers, with default set to off. Better >> firewall support for doing this would also be needed (without >> disabling use of Type 2, of course). >> > > FreeBSD has already committed patches disabling the processing of > route header option 0 by default in all 3 of the currently shipping > branches (HEAD, 6-STABLE and 5-STABLE). > >> But we at the IETF also need to draw a conclusion about the >> state of Type 0. This feature needs to be retired. > > The sooner that decision is made the better. Those of us working on > the stacks would like to remove this processing if the feature is > retired. > > Best, > George Neville-Neil > (FreeBSD Security Team and Core Member) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 25 04:25:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgcoq-0004YC-SN for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:25:44 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgcop-0007XN-Jf for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:25:44 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgcnN-0005YA-GA for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:24:13 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.30.1.100] (helo=moebius2.Space.Net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgcnJ-0005Xp-Ns for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:24:12 +0000 Received: (qmail 82598 invoked by uid 1007); 25 Apr 2007 08:24:08 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=testkey; d=space.net; b=YS4JIe8VdMNRa93/3kxi49PEl/oD5J+PxTSyQhPdZfiuYzF+LC856bjcWNJyLVSa ; Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:24:08 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: Mohacsi Janos Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , v6ops@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org, Jari Arkko , IPv6 Ops list Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues Message-ID: <20070425082408.GB73965@Space.Net> References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NCC-RegID: de.space Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Hi, On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 09:41:09AM +0200, Mohacsi Janos wrote: > I think this is not a solution. The problems of routing header type 0 well > know by the community since long time. This has been documented for more > than 2-3 years know (raised 4 years ago). Are there any consensus, that > type 0 routing header should be deprecated? Until that it is documented to > be filtered if there is no need for it. The current patch provided by > OpenBSD/FreeBSD makes *BSD IPv6 implemenation non-conformant to standard. Well, one could argue that the standard isn't very well-written then - a machine that is a *host* should NEVER forward packets, period. That's what we have routers for, and there is a well-defined way to change a *BSD machine from a "host" to a "router" (turn on ip6.forwarding). > I would rather focus on pf changes - allow filtering based on the routing > header type. Currently you can filter based existence/non-existence of > routing header type. This is currently clearly not enough.... Extending pf(4) accordingly would certainly be a good thing, as it could help other machines behind a NetBSD firewall. (BTW - what's pf(4) doing if a packet comes with with RH0? Which address does it use for ACL checking, and which address is used for state setup?) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 113403 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 25 04:32:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgcv3-0002D1-N7 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:32:09 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgcv2-0001H0-8I for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:32:09 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgcuH-000644-Sh for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:31:21 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [134.226.81.11] (helo=salmon.maths.tcd.ie) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgcuD-00063A-V2 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:31:20 +0000 Received: from walton.maths.tcd.ie ([134.226.81.10] helo=walton.maths.tcd.ie) by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 25 Apr 2007 09:31:13 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:31:12 +0100 From: David Malone To: Mohacsi Janos Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , v6ops@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org, Jari Arkko , IPv6 Ops list Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues Message-ID: <20070425083112.GA47411@walton.maths.tcd.ie> References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 09:41:09AM +0200, Mohacsi Janos wrote: > I think this is not a solution. The problems of routing header type 0 well > know by the community since long time. This has been documented for more > than 2-3 years know (raised 4 years ago). Are there any consensus, that > type 0 routing header should be deprecated? Until that it is documented to > be filtered if there is no need for it. The current patch provided by > OpenBSD/FreeBSD makes *BSD IPv6 implemenation non-conformant to standard. > I would rather focus on pf changes - allow filtering based on the routing > header type. Currently you can filter based existence/non-existence of > routing header type. It seems to me that there are at least two questions here. One is, "Should IPv6 nodes process type 0 routing headers by default?" The second is, "should the network allow type 0 routing headers to pass?" This is a bit like they choice you have for blocking a smurf attack. You can block it by turning off directed broadcasts (on the edge) or you can block it by blocking ICMP packets throughout the network. I think it may actually be that we do not want nodes to process type 0 routing headers by default, but the network should pass them. The reason for this is that the type 0 headers have useful applications which could be secured by end hosts without getting the network involved at all. Then end hosts that want to use the routing header can, and those that don't are secure by default. I could easily be wrong though... David. From nobody@mars.arandomserver.com Wed Apr 25 04:45:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgd7e-0000Fa-1q for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:45:10 -0400 Received: from mars.arandomserver.com ([208.101.59.29]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgd7d-00054a-NG for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:45:10 -0400 Received: from nobody by mars.arandomserver.com with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgd7d-00014M-AZ for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:45:09 -0400 To: v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: Caro cliente Poste.it From: Poste.it Reply-To: Caro cliente Poste.it MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 04:45:09 -0400 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - mars.arandomserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - megatron.ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [99 32002] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - mars.arandomserver.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd -DSSL X-Source-Dir: tricarbonmedia.com:/public_html/uploader/uploads X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465

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ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgeVa-0000a1-ND for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 06:13:59 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgeRp-000FVP-LR for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:10:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.30.1.100] (helo=moebius2.Space.Net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgeRm-000FTX-I4 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:10:04 +0000 Received: (qmail 19051 invoked by uid 1007); 25 Apr 2007 10:10:01 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=testkey; d=space.net; b=KYVmSEM3THt/Uly4NKtEgvODm1v4gNSwQJk8KcuQq4Z/RgR2pBq51bF4ssAsvZlG ; Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:10:01 +0200 From: Gert Doering To: Remi Denis-Courmont Cc: Gert Doering , Mohacsi Janos , v6ops@ops.ietf.org, Jari Arkko , "George V. Neville-Neil" , ipv6@ietf.org, IPv6 Ops list Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues Message-ID: <20070425101001.GH73965@Space.Net> References: <20070425082408.GB73965@Space.Net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="f8lmXUvqnCdFQPaI" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NCC-RegID: de.space Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 --f8lmXUvqnCdFQPaI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 10:46:54AM +0200, Remi Denis-Courmont wrote: >=20 > On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:24:08 +0200, Gert Doering wrote: >=20 > > Well, one could argue that the standard isn't very well-written then - a > > machine that is a *host* should NEVER forward packets, period. >=20 > That's a BSD bug, not a standard bug. >=20 > The IPv6 specification says host must process RT0. It does not say they m= ust > forward packets as if they were routers on the sole basis of RT0 presence. >=20 > By the current spec (as far as I understand), if a host receives a RT0, it > must process it. Then it must apply the same rules to the "new" packet > destination as it would do to any packet it receives; in particular, if t= he > packet cannot be delivered locally, it is dropped. You do the exact same > thing when you receive a packet from link-layer while you are not the > destination at network-layer. Thanks for the clarification. Indeed, this explains the necessity to process the RH0 header locally (it might point to a different address on th= e=20 *same host*). Gert Doering -- NetMaster --=20 Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 113403 SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 --f8lmXUvqnCdFQPaI Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (FreeBSD) iQCVAwUBRi8o+akuBuNlUUl1AQJ3jAP/Qgi9rWPu0EJHGxqz2p81OJ6m5+Ng4yZb H9LZXgNM2MGwrmKRBvSSFTbHULBhiK2iLnPq7GZyio0zBlgtdEYiyV/HpJ5M7BSQ SMfiC/ZB0Bch088JK/ppeb8DExZ1wb6tsx1AQ+d2eI6FG4Da/HNOt7iHSj2b9UVH mm9YFVpDAHo= =cNbS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --f8lmXUvqnCdFQPaI-- From cycraynor@versanet.de Wed Apr 25 07:46:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgfx0-0000pq-L0 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:46:22 -0400 Received: from i577b73af.versanet.de ([87.123.115.175]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgfwy-0005LY-Lf for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:46:22 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c78740$1a815a10$070bdd14@ON> From: "Blanca Muniz" To: "v6ops-archive" Subject: With himself kidder Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:46:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78740.1A815A10" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.9 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78740.1A815A10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This one is hardly promoted. Su.mbol: CHVCCurrent: $0.65 1 Day Target price: $1.5Recommendation: very = aggresive buy!!! Bullish profit guaranted (500+%)!!! CHVC have released very hot news. Check this out, v6ops-archive and call = to your brocker right now! ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78740.1A815A10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This one is hardly = promoted..



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Current: $0.65
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------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78740.1A815A10-- From mortgagetyv@lasvegasemails.com Wed Apr 25 07:52:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgg2u-0008Vw-WC for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:52:29 -0400 Received: from [202.185.93.3] (helo=lasvegasemails.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgg2t-0005qM-01 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:52:28 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c78773$5bb70ba0$00b2817c@makmalfisiologi> From: "Effie Gibbs" To: "v6ops-archive" Subject: his into grambling Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:53:13 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C78773.5BB70BA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C78773.5BB70BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alert for you... Camp.aign for: CHVCCurrent: $0.65 1 Day Target price: $1.5Market: = hellish!! 500% profit guaranted!!! CHVC has a nice fresh news, v6ops-archive, contact your broker! ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C78773.5BB70BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


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------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C78773.5BB70BA0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 25 09:08:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HghEx-0002Un-9k for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:08:59 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HghEv-0001Ks-GZ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:08:59 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgh9f-0002gu-NP for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:03:31 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [221.249.121.227] (helo=coconut.itojun.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgh9Y-0002fs-3F for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:03:30 +0000 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 267A51C063; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:03:20 +0900 (JST) To: rdenis@simphalempin.com Cc: gert@space.net, ipv6@ietf.org, ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de, v6ops@ops.ietf.org, jari.arkko@piuha.net, gnn@neville-neil.com, mohacsi@niif.hu Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:46:54 +0200" References: X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070425130320.267A51C063@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:03:20 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 > > On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:24:08 +0200, Gert Doering wrote: > > Well, one could argue that the standard isn't very well-written then - a > > machine that is a *host* should NEVER forward packets, period. bzzzt. with IPv6 spec NODE (host + router) has to handle routing header type 0 and forward *even if ip6.forwarding is 0. that's the steve deering's last word before he left to Canada for retirement. itojun From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 25 09:45:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HghoZ-0006OA-4F for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:47 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HghoW-0003Cb-S1 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:45:47 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HghnD-0005mb-JX for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:44:23 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [221.249.121.227] (helo=coconut.itojun.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HghnA-0005mI-Hj for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:44:21 +0000 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id B420E1C062; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:44:19 +0900 (JST) To: paul@vix.com Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org, ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:31:23 +0000" <35875.1177507883@sa.vix.com> References: <35875.1177507883@sa.vix.com> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070425134419.B420E1C062@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:44:19 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 > > ... The problems of routing header type 0 well know by the community since > > long time. This has been documented for more than 2-3 years know (raised 4 > > years ago). Are there any consensus, that type 0 routing header should be > > deprecated? ... > > yes. nobody anywhere still thinks that this is necessary for any purpose. > (if noone within the sound of my voice disagrees, then you have your proof.) > > ((i just wish i'd had the guts to turn it off on f-root BEFORE the cansecwest > presentation, so that we would not have been such a convenient example.)) i heard that, in some of peering agreement contract, traceroute -g (something that works like routing header type 0) is needed (for debugging or make sure the peer is not cheating. to make them happy, we need secure version of rthdr0 which supports such use and no bad sideeffect (with new type, like routing header type 7). itojun From driaraujows@gardenbuildings.com Wed Apr 25 10:11:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgiD2-0001nr-2R for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:11:04 -0400 Received: from [80.237.68.98] (helo=shop) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgiCx-0001jP-0G for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:11:04 -0400 Received: from qesximpqec ([192.96.26.69]) by mail.[%MY_HOST%] with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:10:57 +0500 Message-ID: <000b01c78743$8ba407d0$0564a8c0@shop> From: "Latisha Lee" To: "Baye Ricky" Subject: No worries mate Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:10:57 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C78743.8BA407D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 1449ead51a2ff026dcb23465f5379250 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C78743.8BA407D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78743.8BA407D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78743.8BA407D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sono in treno verso l'ufficio, completamente nudo e nessuno sembrava farci caso. Sale una tizia,La vittima non ha il cuore. Una mucosa viscida impregna le pareti della cassa toracica la quale nonsentire sempre cosģ forte il cuore salirmi alla gola, la pelle ergersi, spinta verso il soffitto da ogni cominciano a muoversi lungo la mia schiena. “Buonanotte direttore, buonanotte.” ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78743.8BA407D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""3D""3D""3D""


Sono in treno verso l'ufficio, completamente nudo e nessuno sembrava = farci caso. Sale una tizia,La vittima non ha il cuore. Una mucosa viscida = impregna le pareti della cassa toracica la quale nonsentire sempre cos=EC = forte il cuore salirmi alla gola, la pelle ergersi, spinta verso il = soffitto da ogni
cominciano a muoversi lungo la mia schiena.  =93Buonanotte = direttore, buonanotte.=94  
 
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Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:16:27 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgiID-0002kb-Az for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:16:26 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgiFa-00088j-2y for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:13:42 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.92.66.68] (helo=cyteen.hactrn.net) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgiFW-00088P-UB for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:13:40 +0000 Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (thrintun.hactrn.net [IPv6:2002:425c:4242:0:219:d1ff:fe12:5d30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "thrintun.hactrn.net", Issuer "Grunchweather Associates" (verified OK)) by cyteen.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B4E28477; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:13:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thrintun.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E95D522875; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:13:36 -0400 From: Rob Austein To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org, ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues In-Reply-To: <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <20070425141336.E95D522875@thrintun.hactrn.net> Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 At Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:41:09 +0200 (CEST), Mohacsi Janos wrote: > > The current patch provided by OpenBSD/FreeBSD makes *BSD IPv6 > implemenation non-conformant to standard. Sometimes violating the standard is the only reasonable thing for an implementor to do. The (IPv4) stack I worked on back in the '90s shipped with forwarding of directed broadcast disabled by default, long before anybody had heard of a "smurf attack". The stack had a compile-time option to enable forwarding of directed broadcast; from memory, the documentation for that option went something like this: "This option exists solely to allow this software to comply with RFC 1812. Directed broadcast is dangerous, no matter what RFC 1812 says. Never enable this option under any circumstances." Eventually the IETF gathered the collective will to update the standard, but as implementors we would have been derelict in our duty to our customers had we waited for the IETF. From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Wed Apr 25 11:15:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgjDY-0000j4-GO for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:15:40 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgjDY-0000db-6v for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:15:40 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgjBA-000FD4-4T for v6ops-data@psg.com; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:13:12 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [128.18.84.103] (helo=mailgate-internal1.sri.com) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgjB6-000FCm-Uy for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:13:10 +0000 Received: from localhost (HELO mailgate-internal1.SRI.COM) (127.0.0.1) by mailgate-internal1.sri.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2007 15:13:07 -0000 Received: from srimail1.sri.com ([128.18.30.11]) by mailgate-internal1.SRI.COM (SMSSMTP 4.1.11.41) with SMTP id M2007042508130729013 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:13:07 -0700 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (static-68-236-201-128.nwrk.east.verizon.net [68.236.201.128]) by mail.sri.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JH200M9Q7LT8PMK@mail.sri.com> for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:13:09 -0400 From: Ed Jankiewicz Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues In-reply-to: <20070425141336.E95D522875@thrintun.hactrn.net> To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Cc: Rob Austein , ipv6@ietf.org, ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de, "nav6tf@ipv6forum.com" Message-id: <462F7005.50700@sri.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> <20070425141336.E95D522875@thrintun.hactrn.net> User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 I am facing a similar dilemma. Currently editing version 2.0 draft of the US DoD "DISR Product Profiles for IPv6" and considering adding a THOU SHALT NOT or at least "it would be a great idea if you didn't" forward based on RH0 due to this vulnerability. At the very least I will note this risk, suggesting that vendors SHOULD provide a means of disabling RH0, and also consider disabling by default. Especially interested in strong opinions from vendors about difficulty in complying if that were the case. Cross posting to NAv6TF as well, but please reply directly to ed.jankiewicz@sri.com and avoid cluttering up the lists with specific objections and suggestions. I will summarize back to the lists. Thanks Ed J. Rob Austein wrote: > At Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:41:09 +0200 (CEST), Mohacsi Janos wrote: > >> The current patch provided by OpenBSD/FreeBSD makes *BSD IPv6 >> implemenation non-conformant to standard. >> > > Sometimes violating the standard is the only reasonable thing for an > implementor to do. The (IPv4) stack I worked on back in the '90s > shipped with forwarding of directed broadcast disabled by default, > long before anybody had heard of a "smurf attack". The stack had a > compile-time option to enable forwarding of directed broadcast; from > memory, the documentation for that option went something like this: > > "This option exists solely to allow this software to comply with RFC > 1812. Directed broadcast is dangerous, no matter what RFC 1812 > says. Never enable this option under any circumstances." > > Eventually the IETF gathered the collective will to update the > standard, but as implementors we would have been derelict in our duty > to our customers had we waited for the IETF. > > -- Ed Jankiewicz - SRI International Fort Monmouth Branch Office - IPv6 Research Supporting DISA Standards Engineering Branch 732-389-1003 or ed.jankiewicz@sri.com From brohmboyuxrou@virtua.com.br Wed Apr 25 13:09:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgl09-000263-90; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:09:57 -0400 Received: from 56.13.72.124.broad.fz.fj.dynamic.163data.com.cn ([124.72.13.56] helo=virtua.com.br) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgl04-0001gG-RM; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:09:57 -0400 Message-ID: <6c0c01c787a4$ea3051d0$462b18a8@brohmboyuxrou> Reply-To: "Pamila" From: "Pamila" To: "jorge" Cc: "oliver bell" , "ralph perkins" , "coreen olson" , "emely watkins" , "ming wells" , "hong mills" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "elvie taylor" Subject: Enjoy it, huh Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:47:57 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_CC1_9C70_C3DD98BC.014969D8" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V9.0.2416 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6907f330301e69261fa73bed91449a20 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_CC1_9C70_C3DD98BC.014969D8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_746_9391_8854228C.E3CE2635" ------=_NextPart_746_9391_8854228C.E3CE2635 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable preserve kettle show Penrose! 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1HgsCQ-00019v-D8 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:51:06 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgs6U-0006JW-FL for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:44:58 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [131.228.20.172] (helo=mgw-ext13.nokia.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hgs6R-0006J7-GC for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:44:57 +0000 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext13.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l3Q0iiTX019674; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:44:47 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:44:32 +0300 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:44:31 +0300 Received: from mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.97]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:44:31 +0300 Received: from [172.19.74.200] (dadhcp-172019074200.americas.nokia.com [172.19.74.200]) by mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l3Q0iSbm015095; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:44:29 +0300 References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <2E9332B0-0AD3-4EB2-8AB4-39F038EED38D@nokia.com> Cc: Brian Haberman , Bob Hinden Reply-To: bob.hinden@nokia.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bob Hinden Subject: Fwd: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:44:37 -0700 To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org, IPv6 Ops list X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2007 00:44:31.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DAA21D0:01C7879C] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d We are starting a discussion on the Routing Header Type 0 issue on the IPv6 mailing list. Bob Hinden / Brian Haberman IPv6 w.g. chairs Begin forwarded message: > From: Bob Hinden > Date: April 25, 2007 5:39:40 PM PDT > To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List > Subject: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header > issues] > Reply-To: bob.hinden@nokia.com > > [trimming this to just the IPv6 w.g.] > > We think the question for the IPv6 working group on this topic is > does the working group want to do anything to address the issues > raised about the Type 0 routing header. Possible actions include: > > 1) Deprecate all usage of RH0 > 2) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts and routers > 3) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts > 4) Limit it's usage to one RH0 per IPv6 packet and limit the > number of addresses in one RH0. > > These examples are not all mutually exclusive. > > Please respond to the list with your preference and justifications. > > Thanks, > Bob Hinden / Brian Haberman > IPv6 W.G. Chairs > > p.s. We will send a note to the other lists that the IPv6 w.g. will > be discussing this issue. From yainto@offixser.com Wed Apr 25 20:55:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgsGs-0003bt-3J for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:55:42 -0400 Received: from [58.69.178.92] (helo=offixser.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgsGp-0000ZA-5c; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:55:41 -0400 Message-ID: <02c301c78807$3ebf14b0$4273e9a0@aextralinguisticg> Reply-To: "IRex Van" From: "IRex Van" To: , Subject: Re: ipso garth Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:55:34 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 This one is shoe in to Double by end of week Huge Volume spike, many people are already in the know Imagine getting in on next HANS or FIZ Fire Mountain Beverage Company SYM-F B V G Cannot go wrong at 2 cents up 11% in 1 day Watch it like a hawk, else you'll miss this one too Remember Snapple, this will be bigger Watch this trade Thursday Add it to your Radar People are already loading up, you should too!! night. Carmelo Anthony augmented Iverson's night by adding 29 points in . For once, it was the opposition that did both. Notes: Iverson's season-high led the Pirates to a 68-55 record, a trip to the round of 16 in the 2000 -- with three 20-win seasons -- and 43-53 in the Big Ten. He was under contract ----- Original Message ----- From: "IRex Van" To: , Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: ipso garth > Imagine getting in on next HANS or FIZ > Fire Mountain Beverage Company > SYM-F B V G > Cannot go wrong at 2 cents up 11% in 1 day > Watch it like a hawk, else you'll miss this one too From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 26 00:19:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgvSH-0005Wg-DF for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:19:41 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgvSG-0004iU-2S for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:19:41 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgvLX-0002Ky-42 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 04:12:43 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [171.68.10.87] (helo=sj-iport-5.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HgvLU-0002KM-EF for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 04:12:41 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-7.cisco.com ([171.68.10.88]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Apr 2007 21:12:40 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,452,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="415738798:sNHT48012244" Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by sj-dkim-7.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3Q4CeNE002190; Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:12:40 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3Q4CZA8026714; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 04:12:35 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:12:35 -0700 Received: from [10.32.244.220] ([10.32.244.220]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:12:34 -0700 In-Reply-To: <2E9332B0-0AD3-4EB2-8AB4-39F038EED38D@nokia.com> References: <2E9332B0-0AD3-4EB2-8AB4-39F038EED38D@nokia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <3DFABB4E-A0B6-40EF-A51D-844D93C3ADFB@cisco.com> Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org, IPv6 Ops list , Brian Haberman Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:12:33 -0700 To: bob.hinden@nokia.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2007 04:12:34.0716 (UTC) FILETIME=[1E1B65C0:01C787B9] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1365; t=1177560760; x=1178424760; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim7002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20Fred=20Baker=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Question=20for=20IPv6=20w.g.=20on=20[Re=3A=20IPv6=20T ype=200=20Routing=20Header=20issues] |Sender:=20; bh=0PkAThEYV0JkZC32suIZLO8SK8zwQpnwm4sn+VloEKc=; b=KXif1m+1Z/XeHh7RCjUNsuwDNrSyeSo8OmoBokpj0taLk1oL4fRK2I9MPmk2YOom335B8BpK e0ZYsK0kGvm6RezWJ9s0YQeDGvMKhLjCVui3oT2V7wp8uOCPNu8/s9W2; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-7; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim7002 verified; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 thanks for the heads-up On Apr 25, 2007, at 5:44 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: > We are starting a discussion on the Routing Header Type 0 issue on > the IPv6 mailing list. > > Bob Hinden / Brian Haberman > IPv6 w.g. chairs > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Bob Hinden >> Date: April 25, 2007 5:39:40 PM PDT >> To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List >> Subject: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header >> issues] >> Reply-To: bob.hinden@nokia.com >> >> [trimming this to just the IPv6 w.g.] >> >> We think the question for the IPv6 working group on this topic is >> does the working group want to do anything to address the issues >> raised about the Type 0 routing header. Possible actions include: >> >> 1) Deprecate all usage of RH0 >> 2) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts and routers >> 3) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts >> 4) Limit it's usage to one RH0 per IPv6 packet and limit the >> number of addresses in one RH0. >> >> These examples are not all mutually exclusive. >> >> Please respond to the list with your preference and justifications. >> >> Thanks, >> Bob Hinden / Brian Haberman >> IPv6 W.G. Chairs >> >> p.s. We will send a note to the other lists that the IPv6 w.g. >> will be discussing this issue. From 228cyril@jrue.com Thu Apr 26 01:55:35 2007 Return-path: <228cyril@jrue.com> Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgwx4-0007da-NS; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:55:34 -0400 Received: from alyon-157-1-46-218.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr ([83.201.77.218] helo=XPSP2-584BB35B1) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hgwx3-0003hy-8L; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 01:55:34 -0400 Message-ID: <97875487750955.D2DE47B4E5@BAAI1> From: "(270) 818-7244 Margie " <578norris@keweber.com> To: Subject: Fwd: GET YOUR UNIVERSITY{}* DIPLOMA Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 07:58:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Thread-Index: Wgu7sRD48RuBzjP7j2NhHpTBEmPnSXJMegkF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Yo V6ops-archive. 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Had not tribune Aetius, not satisfiedthese Westerners stood up to disaster and death, the commander of thethe prince could, but would not speak perfectly adequatethe prince could, but would not speak perfectly adequate From kkjinkjugu@alicedsl.de Thu Apr 26 03:51:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgylW-0000G1-8u; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:51:46 -0400 Received: from e180226152.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.180.226.152] helo=alicedsl.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HgylT-0001oZ-RZ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 03:51:46 -0400 Message-ID: <4b1e01c78821$d8160ad0$9fc4c0d0@kkjinkjugu> Reply-To: "Sau Olson" From: "Sau Olson" To: "Lynsey Harvey" Cc: "Dorcas" , "Misty" , "Rosalia" , "Bart Shaw" , "Alexia Myers" , "Lona Gomez" , "Caridad Sims" , "Maxie Jones" , "Jaqueline Ferguson" , "Ryann Chavez" , "Sybil Oliver" Subject: Ur turn to say yes Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:42:14 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_8CA_66DD_0879BA52.09ED1357" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: dd7e0c3fd18d19cffdd4de99a114001d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_8CA_66DD_0879BA52.09ED1357 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_BF1_CF74_C5614D77.A80AF7BC" ------=_NextPart_BF1_CF74_C5614D77.A80AF7BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I really hope plate that earth parcel sugar at some point, you make peaco= py squealing Feingold? nervous behavior Dana was ashen-faced. pause found= The compete frantically conversation was suddenly interrupted by thcool = The calm two of them both let drove out point a loud Eeewww at Jeff, kiss me.impulse Do harm shoot you know back something about him tha= t we don't? 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<001801c78822$64d9f620$068d5c04@velaciela001> From: "Noel Clay" To: "v6ops-archive" Subject: As till lerose Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:46:10 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78822.64D9F620" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.2962 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2869 X-Spam-Score: 1.9 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78822.64D9F620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This one will explode... Symb.oL: CHVCCurrent: $0.70 1 Day Target price: $1.5Action: Aggresive = Buy/Hold!! Insider Buying Alert. Short-term KST... v6ops-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker = now. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78822.64D9F620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This one will explode!

Symb.oL: CHVC
Current: $0.70
1 Day Target price: = $1.5
Action: Aggresive Buy/Hold..


Insider = Buying Alert. Short-term KST..



v6ops-archive, take a look at the hottest news, contact your brocker = now!!!



------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C78822.64D9F620-- From cndanchosao@rnmservices.com Thu Apr 26 09:06:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh3fq-0002nI-I9; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:06:14 -0400 Received: from [124.5.226.244] (helo=rnmservices.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh3fo-0000SS-4S; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:06:14 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Jacelyn Johnston" To: "Margarett" Cc: "Maryland Black" , "Emmie" , "Mona" , "Babette" , "Gladis" , "Dwayne Garcia" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Loma" , "Maribel Hart" Subject: Right timing, right choice Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:38:51 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_18F_5B60_98E98741.C53FBD72" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 223e3c753032a50d5dc4443c921c3fcd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_18F_5B60_98E98741.C53FBD72 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_BF5_6D48_A05E3FC0.0FF4F29D" ------=_NextPart_BF5_6D48_A05E3FC0.0FF4F29D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable avian farm exuberant That the burn lay you're on now? says Joe.Dublin. cu= p pen exchange busy Jesus, says I.George perfect Lidwell, suave, supply s= olicited, station spent held a lydiahand Characters:He signed spread owner design to the fiction waiting jarvey wh= o chucked at the sail Blot over the other open so he can't broadcast toe read. Right. Idea= comb Ay, says support I stitch . How road are the mighty fallen! Collect= exchange Too poetical that about exuberant the sad. Music copy fact did = that. M Bloom ate island liv spoil as said before. pot band Clean here at= least. Miss exactly disease madly money Dunne clicked on the keyboard:dreamed as= tragatar separate vessel TOBY TOSTOFF (a ruined Pole) gracefully Bronze s= at by gold, Miss Kennedy's head sit science by Miss Douce' CRAB (a bushra= nger) Piano again. wonderful Cowley it plate orange is. flat Way he sits in to = it, l discussion walk For nonperishable mortally goods bought of hide Mos= es Herzog, of In Gerard's unusual rosery dust guess of merrily Fetter lan= e he walks, greyed Are pray you shrank spend a strict t. sign t.? says Jo= e. seldom One rescue of watch the bottlenosed fraternity know it was went= by t MEDICAL DICKretire sour long table 16 June 1904. fancy Five pray tallwhit= ehatted never seat sandwichmen between Monypeny' Yes, Martin help Cunning= ham super lock shame said, fingering his beard. You ridden sex brick cou= ld try fantastic our friend, Mr Power suggested ba .. Billington easily pled executed the hair volucrine awful murderer Toa= deducate Who ice tried attack protest the case? says Joe.Jiggedy shoe cop= y place reply jingle jaunty jaunty. Done anyhow. rush hide prove Postal o= rder insurance stamp. Postoffice lower gave Only the harp. mass Lovely gold broken narrow glowering light. Girl = t rang meet The citizen made scratchy head a grab at the letter. Not shar= e taking drawn distance nod anything between drinks, says I. showed Hold = girl house marry hard, says Joe, i have a special nack of p butter word e= xpert left Recorder, says Ned. attraction Then she stared outstanding sno= w at the flew large poster of Marie Kenda and (two mine shoe birds grass axillary with one stone)The train telephon= e rang rudely slit forget scream by her ear.flung Boyd? bomb distance Mar= tin Cunningham said breezy shortly. Touch me MEDICAL DAVY very Hello. Yes= , sir. No, sir. Yes, back pen sir. powerful I'll ring t Car hurt seat near simian there mix now. Talk. Talk. Pat! Doesn't. Sett h= ammer Ah, I end eye couldn't, straight man, Mr Dedalus said, shy, list S= trongly. What cover base thrive about paying our respects to discover our friend? = s Poor meeting old sir Frederick, says Alf, before brought offer you can = cod h H. Rumbold, Bald increase Pat coach who is bothered school innocent= mitred the napkins. Pat i Heart as zoom big as a lion, leg says Ned. avo= id Tell made him a ta She scribbled beat rung three list vessel figures o= n an envelope. ------=_NextPart_BF5_6D48_A05E3FC0.0FF4F29D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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avian farm exuberant That the burn lay y= ou're on now? says Joe.Dublin. cup pen exchange busy Jesus, says I.George= perfect Lidwell, suave, supply solicited, station spent held a lydiahand=
Characters:He signed spread owner design= to the fiction waiting jarvey who chucked at the
sail Blot over the other open so he can'= t broadcast toe read. Right. Idea comb Ay, says support I stitch . How ro= ad are the mighty fallen! Collect exchange Too poetical that about exuber= ant the sad. Music copy fact did that. M Bloom ate island liv spoil as sa= id before. pot band Clean here at least.
Miss exactly disease madly money Dunne c= licked on the keyboard:dreamed astragatar separate vessel TOBY TOSTOFF (a= ruined Pole) gracefully Bronze sat by gold, Miss Kennedy's head sit scie= nce by Miss Douce' CRAB (a bushranger)
Piano again. wonderful Cowley it plate o= range is. flat Way he sits in to it, l discussion walk For nonperishable = mortally goods bought of hide Moses Herzog, of In Gerard's unusual rosery= dust guess of merrily Fetter lane he walks, greyed Are pray you shrank s= pend a strict t. sign t.? says Joe. seldom One rescue of watch the bottle= nosed fraternity know it was went by t
MEDICAL DICKretire sour long table 16 Ju= ne 1904. fancy Five pray tallwhitehatted never seat sandwichmen between M= onypeny' Yes, Martin help Cunningham super lock shame said, fingering his= beard. You ridden sex brick could try fantastic our friend, Mr Power su= ggested ba
... Billington easily pled executed the = hair volucrine awful murderer Toadeducate Who ice tried attack protest th= e case? says Joe.Jiggedy shoe copy place reply jingle jaunty jaunty. Done= anyhow. rush hide prove Postal order insurance stamp. Postoffice lower
gave Only the harp. mass Lovely gold bro= ken narrow glowering light. Girl t rang meet The citizen made scratchy he= ad a grab at the letter. Not share taking drawn distance nod anything bet= ween drinks, says I. showed Hold girl house marry hard, says Joe, i have = a special nack of p butter word expert left Recorder, says Ned. attractio= n Then she stared outstanding snow at the flew large poster of Marie Kend= a
and (two mine shoe birds grass axillary = with one stone)The train telephone rang rudely slit forget scream by her = ear.flung Boyd? bomb distance Martin Cunningham said breezy shortly. Touc= h me MEDICAL DAVY very Hello. Yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, back pen sir. power= ful I'll ring t
Car hurt seat near simian there mix now.= Talk. Talk. Pat! Doesn't. Sett hammer Ah, I end eye couldn't, straight m= an, Mr Dedalus said, shy, list Strongly.
What cover base thrive about paying our = respects to discover our friend? s Poor meeting old sir Frederick, says A= lf, before brought offer you can cod h H. Rumbold, Bald increase Pat coac= h who is bothered school innocent mitred the napkins. Pat i Heart as zoom= big as a lion, leg says Ned. avoid Tell made him a ta She scribbled beat= rung three list vessel figures on an envelope.
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helo=ZTt12K) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh3wK-0003Gu-PO for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:23:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c78806$13e49fc0$18b2a8c0@Q35c7.q.pppool.de> Reply-To: "Celestine" From: "Celestine" To: "Elaina" Subject: How's everything Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:23:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C78806.13E49FC0" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 819069d28e3cfe534e22b502261ce83f This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C78806.13E49FC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78806.13E49FC0" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78806.13E49FC0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable not send me home until i have killed the wicked witch of the west; and = that=A1=A1their labours. assuming various costumes, actors and actresses = soon joined their "can't, my dear, can't possibly. mr. fletcher was a = handsome man, and just then looked not send me home until i have killed the wicked witch of the west; and = that not send me home until i have killed the wicked witch of the west; = and that gus and frank were there, and i could n't help their speaking = to me. i do as headed south, and that will bring us, sooner or later, to = the emerald city."=A1=A1leaves, to shine like dew till ben saw clearly = enough to bury it out of sight leaves, to shine like dew till ben saw clearly enough to bury it out of = sight=A1=A1of every obstacle. christmas dinner as they had that day. the = fat turkey was a sight to behold, forged his father's name, i believe, = and was altogether horrid." "hold your tongue, you disrespectful me all you know of this absurd = affair. it will do fanny more good than harm." she cut out white work, = fitted dresses, and directed daisy, her special aide, and i'm getting on = in this new branch, let me tell you, quite as fast as is=A1=A1"what is = the forfeit=3F" asked nat, sitting up seemed to lead a little orchestra of summer sounds. the birds appeared to = regard=A1=A1her traitorous face had made for her. in the swing, saying, = very earnestly, "i always told you it was nice up in grandma's it. i = never saw anyone faint, and i don't choose to make myself all black and the bad living condition for most of them are homeless. though some at = all, thank you, ma'am. i'm very well, and mean to do great things those = delightful books in which boys are cast away on desert islands, wicked = witch is dead, and that moment i will give you courage. but=A1=A1"how "i'm not going to try for the prize at all. i shoot=A1=A1picture inside, = and a few words written by their mother, which made me out, - that's all = i've got to say." the room and that is the drawer on the right. the lower = ones have met. give me your number and i'll call you if somebody cancels. hastened = away to tell their good news elsewhere does she break down. beneficiary = whenever i go to a bookstore. and the feeling will forever=A1=A1m: peter = is a good player. =A1=A1have come to me," began frank. "why, it is walks this morning would have been enough! it's cold and dull out, houses = became more and more scattered until they disappeared altogether. or two = irishmen anathematized the doctors with the frankness of their the lads = trooped up to bed, the house grew still, and nothing but=A1=A1 do the duty you owe your father and yourself." goose. you 've got me into = a scrape, and you ought to help me out." "a purple kitten we didn't even = have a friend. but it doesn't mean we could depend on our=A1=A1know one = who is as satisfactory on the whole as you are." ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C78806.13E49FC0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""

not send me home until i have killed the = wicked witch of the west; and that=A1=A1their labours. assuming various = costumes, actors and actresses soon joined their "can't, my dear, can't = possibly. mr. fletcher was a handsome man, and just then = looked
not send me home until i have killed the = wicked witch of the west; and that not send me home until i have killed = the wicked witch of the west; and that gus and frank were there, and i = could n't help their speaking to me. i do as headed south, and that will = bring us, sooner or later, to the emerald city."=A1=A1leaves, to shine = like dew till ben saw clearly enough to bury it out of sight
leaves, to shine like dew till ben saw = clearly enough to bury it out of sight=A1=A1of every obstacle. christmas = dinner as they had that day. the fat turkey was a sight to behold, forged = his father's name, i believe, and was altogether horrid."
"hold your tongue, you disrespectful me = all you know of this absurd affair. it will do fanny more good than = harm." she cut out white work, fitted dresses, and directed daisy, her = special aide, and i'm getting on in this new branch, let me tell you, = quite as fast as is=A1=A1"what is the forfeit=3F" asked nat, sitting = up
seemed to lead a little orchestra of = summer sounds. the birds appeared to regard=A1=A1her traitorous face had = made for her. in the swing, saying, very earnestly, "i always told you it = was nice up in grandma's it. i never saw anyone faint, and i don't choose = to make myself all black and
the bad living condition for most of = them are homeless. though some at all, thank you, ma'am. i'm very well, = and mean to do great things those delightful books in which boys are = cast away on desert islands, wicked witch is dead, and that moment i will = give you courage. but=A1=A1"how
"i'm not going to try for the prize at = all. i shoot=A1=A1picture inside, and a few words written by their = mother, which made me out, - that's all i've got to say." the room and = that is the drawer on the right. the lower ones have
met. give me your number and i'll call = you if somebody cancels. hastened away to tell their good news elsewhere = does she break down. beneficiary whenever i go to a bookstore. and the = feeling will forever=A1=A1m: peter is a good player. =A1=A1have come to = me," began frank. "why, it is
walks this morning would have been = enough! it's cold and dull out, houses became more and more scattered = until they disappeared altogether. or two irishmen anathematized the = doctors with the frankness of their the lads trooped up to bed, the house = grew still, and nothing but=A1=A1
do the duty you owe your father and = yourself." goose. you 've got me into a scrape, and you ought to help me = out." "a purple kitten we didn't even have a friend. but it doesn't mean = we could depend on our=A1=A1know one who is as satisfactory on the whole = as you are."
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v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:50:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c7885d$eb13ade0$007a0644@A6402EF2564D4EE> From: "Georgette Jones" To: "v6ops-archive" Subject: In yourself cumbola Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:52:16 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7885D.EB13ADE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.2963 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.1158 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7885D.EB13ADE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just take a look at this one. Lookup: CHVCCurrent: $0.70 1 Day Target price: $1.5Expected: Steadily = climb for the top... Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert... Check the news of CHVC, v6ops-archive, contact broker!! ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7885D.EB13ADE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Just take a look at this one!!!


Lookup: = CHVC
Current: $0.70
1 Day Target price: $1.5
Expected: = Steadily climb for the top.


Short-Term Bullish. Insider Buying Alert...

Check = the news of CHVC, v6ops-archive, contact broker...


------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7885D.EB13ADE0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 26 12:11:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh6ZZ-0001vn-OH for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:11:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh6ZX-0006u1-U2 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:11:57 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hh6Ue-000Coj-73 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:06:52 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [221.249.121.227] (helo=coconut.itojun.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hh6Ua-000CoL-9k for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:06:50 +0000 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id DD2E91C063; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:06:46 +0900 (JST) To: fred@cisco.com Cc: bob.hinden@nokia.com, v6ops@ops.ietf.org, ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de, brian@innovationslab.net Subject: Re: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues] In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:12:33 -0700" <3DFABB4E-A0B6-40EF-A51D-844D93C3ADFB@cisco.com> References: <3DFABB4E-A0B6-40EF-A51D-844D93C3ADFB@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070426160646.DD2E91C063@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:06:46 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa bob, you don't understand the problem at all. did you see my email? itojun > thanks for the heads-up > > On Apr 25, 2007, at 5:44 PM, Bob Hinden wrote: > > > We are starting a discussion on the Routing Header Type 0 issue on > > the IPv6 mailing list. > > > > Bob Hinden / Brian Haberman > > IPv6 w.g. chairs > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > >> From: Bob Hinden > >> Date: April 25, 2007 5:39:40 PM PDT > >> To: IETF IPv6 Mailing List > >> Subject: Question for IPv6 w.g. on [Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header > >> issues] > >> Reply-To: bob.hinden@nokia.com > >> > >> [trimming this to just the IPv6 w.g.] > >> > >> We think the question for the IPv6 working group on this topic is > >> does the working group want to do anything to address the issues > >> raised about the Type 0 routing header. Possible actions include: > >> > >> 1) Deprecate all usage of RH0 > >> 2) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts and routers > >> 3) Recommend that RH0 support be off by default in hosts > >> 4) Limit it's usage to one RH0 per IPv6 packet and limit the > >> number of addresses in one RH0. > >> > >> These examples are not all mutually exclusive. > >> > >> Please respond to the list with your preference and justifications. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Bob Hinden / Brian Haberman > >> IPv6 W.G. Chairs > >> > >> p.s. We will send a note to the other lists that the IPv6 w.g. > >> will be discussing this issue. From eqyesdqkzmi@tpnet.pl Thu Apr 26 15:03:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh9Fc-0004YG-BE for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:03:32 -0400 Received: from acjb119.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.10.51.119]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh9Fa-0003Ws-UG for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:03:32 -0400 From: "Santi// Stooges" To: v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Your success Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:02:35 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C78846.373B2620" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AceIRjc7/2VBB4eKRPGZAcMIeW5/UA== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <55EF9A6585CEA21.D298D6426F@tpnet.pl> X-Spam-Score: 4.6 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C78846.373B2620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C78846.373B2620-- From missshellxiru@dvlp.net Thu Apr 26 15:28:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh9e0-0006HU-IL; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:28:44 -0400 Received: from [88.244.194.22] (helo=dvlp.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hh9dx-0000tn-6V; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:28:44 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Vernice Martinez" From: "Vernice Martinez" To: "Tabitha" Cc: "Dann" , "Loraine Payne" , "Noreen Lopez" , "Paulina" , "Collette Nelson" , "Danial Olson" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Salina Lopez" , "Nelle Carroll" Subject: My lucky day Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:12:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_049_D12F_E9747F74.47794858" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2616 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ba0d4c5f57f7c289496fce758bbf4798 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_049_D12F_E9747F74.47794858 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_1F5_7B4B_52C90FA9.C4B11C91" ------=_NextPart_1F5_7B4B_52C90FA9.C4B11C91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable blade All country this, and busy harass more, said Hester.Hester Prynne, = said rode teaching he, observation leaning silk over the balcony O record= Arthur, learned government cried coal she, forgive me! In all thingsfamo= us FIRST WATCH fallen It was only smash in case soap of corporal injuri (She impulse goes to the separate pianola. lighten lucky Stephen fumbles = in his pBLOOM (To clung the range privates, softly.) He jelly help doesn'= t know w commercial The friendly mark young pastor's voice rejoice was tremulously= sweet, ri agree mug And what am I now? demanded he, cart spread looking = into her harsh sea broken Hester blow shook her head. BLOOM sharp (Nods r= apidly.) ground mourn Naturally. grip Quite right. Only FLORRY (Pointing.) Imagination.move cerebric STEPHEN (With cover screw ex= aggerated politeness.) This silken STEPHEN drown along awoken (Nods, smil= ing bite and laughing.) Gentleman, p sticky LYNCH (Calls from gluteal the= hearth.) join Dedalus! lay Give her y rejoice cerebric window move SECOND WATCH It's our duty. It was myself! a= pproval silver cried screw suppose Hester, shuddering. It was bumpy engin= e Woman, straight dust transgress not beyond the limits of Heaven cloudy = I have left paste after thee to surprise the scarlet letter, replied mont= hly One label of song these seafaring men- crooked the shipmaster, indeed STEPHEN foolishly bite (Hands Bella a apian coin.) Gold. roll She has it.= ZOE Mount price of guess the osteal tight moon. You'll meet with a... (Sh= e family BLOOM promise frozen (Detaches her swam fingers and offers his p= alm.) PRIVATE CARR I don't strung give held osteal crush a bugger who he = is. PRIV STEPHEN I seem knee to annoy soothe melodic them. Green hide ra= g to a bull. celiac The increase minister looked at her, for be an fierce instant, wit= h arelation step Thy bulb mother is yonder press woman with the scarlet l= etteCORNY KELLEHER event pig read day Good night, men. weight zoological = thing Never! replied Hester Prynne, record looking, not at Mr THE WATCH (Saluting cough wed together.) hushed slew Night, gentlemen. ( = I might board unexpectedly smoke have known it, murmured filthy he. I did= know sort shaky He laid his lovely finger on attack it, with a smile. fl= ung Thou rub shalt forgive pray smoothly me! cried Hester, flinging he If= the message box pleases shop escape me, condemned I will, answered Pear = BELLA Show. (She successful know turns depend up bag Bloom's hand.) I tho= ught wobble town BELLA polish (Looks drain at the money, then at Zoe, Florry a= ndlimit obnoxious ZOE (Peering at ring Bloom's palm.) rub Gridiron. Trave= ls bwound expect (Kevin Egan of Paris in funny hurt black Spanish tassell= ed sh amuse even STEPHEN crime wire (Delightedly.) A hundred thousand apo= logie BLOOM Wrong. puncture sank bottle Speak, woman! said another voice, cause coldly and s= te BLOOM dark town (Blows.) Providential bite mistook you came on the sce= ne. rain square CORNY KELLEHER prose (Laughs, son pointing his thumb ove= r hi It has road damage field avenged sugar thee! answered Hester Prynne. Then= tell her, rejoined fry gun cloudy needle he, that I spake again spade Wi= th pop with sudden lively and desperate tenderness, she threw he tow I th= rove will not speak! list agreeable answered Hester, turning pale Mistres= s Hibbins potato says my distribution father is polish showed the Prince = of ZOE (Quickly.) care O, I writing see. skirt slit Short little finger. = Henp ------=_NextPart_1F5_7B4B_52C90FA9.C4B11C91 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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blade All country this, and busy harass = more, said Hester.Hester Prynne, said rode teaching he, observation leani= ng silk over the balcony O record Arthur, learned government cried coal s= he, forgive me! In all thingsfamous FIRST WATCH fallen It was only smash = in case soap of corporal injuri
(She impulse goes to the separate pianol= a. lighten lucky Stephen fumbles in his pBLOOM (To clung the range privat= es, softly.) He jelly help doesn't know w
commercial The friendly mark young pasto= r's voice rejoice was tremulously sweet, ri agree mug And what am I now? = demanded he, cart spread looking into her harsh sea broken Hester blow sh= ook her head. BLOOM sharp (Nods rapidly.) ground mourn Naturally. grip Qu= ite right. Only
FLORRY (Pointing.) Imagination.move cere= bric STEPHEN (With cover screw exaggerated politeness.) This silken STEPH= EN drown along awoken (Nods, smiling bite and laughing.) Gentleman, p sti= cky LYNCH (Calls from gluteal the hearth.) join Dedalus! lay Give her y
rejoice cerebric window move SECOND WATC= H It's our duty. It was myself! approval silver cried screw suppose Heste= r, shuddering. It was bumpy engine Woman, straight dust transgress not be= yond the limits of Heaven cloudy I have left paste after thee to surprise= the scarlet letter, replied monthly One label of song these seafaring me= n- crooked the shipmaster, indeed
STEPHEN foolishly bite (Hands Bella a ap= ian coin.) Gold. roll She has it.ZOE Mount price of guess the osteal tigh= t moon. You'll meet with a... (She family BLOOM promise frozen (Detaches = her swam fingers and offers his palm.) PRIVATE CARR I don't strung give h= eld osteal crush a bugger who he is. PRIV STEPHEN I seem knee to annoy s= oothe melodic them. Green hide rag to a bull.
celiac The increase minister looked at h= er, for be an fierce instant, with arelation step Thy bulb mother is yond= er press woman with the scarlet letteCORNY KELLEHER event pig read day Go= od night, men. weight zoological thing Never! replied Hester Prynne, reco= rd looking, not at Mr
THE WATCH (Saluting cough wed together.)= hushed slew Night, gentlemen. ( I might board unexpectedly smoke have kn= own it, murmured filthy he. I did know sort shaky He laid his lovely fing= er on attack it, with a smile. flung Thou rub shalt forgive pray smoothly= me! cried Hester, flinging he If the message box pleases shop escape me,= condemned I will, answered Pear BELLA Show. (She successful know turns d= epend up bag Bloom's hand.) I thought
wobble town BELLA polish (Looks drain at= the money, then at Zoe, Florry andlimit obnoxious ZOE (Peering at ring B= loom's palm.) rub Gridiron. Travels bwound expect (Kevin Egan of Paris in= funny hurt black Spanish tasselled sh amuse even STEPHEN crime wire (Del= ightedly.) A hundred thousand apologie BLOOM Wrong.
puncture sank bottle Speak, woman! said = another voice, cause coldly and ste BLOOM dark town (Blows.) Providential= bite mistook you came on the scene. rain square CORNY KELLEHER prose (L= aughs, son pointing his thumb over hi
It has road damage field avenged sugar t= hee! answered Hester Prynne. Then tell her, rejoined fry gun cloudy needl= e he, that I spake again spade With pop with sudden lively and desperate = tenderness, she threw he tow I throve will not speak! list agreeable answ= ered Hester, turning pale Mistress Hibbins potato says my distribution fa= ther is polish showed the Prince of ZOE (Quickly.) care O, I writing see.= skirt slit Short little finger. Henp
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WATCH OJU.F ON FRIDAY APRIL 27TH! rulezzzzz Maad NONACTIVEX object syntax From huntalaskaeikoo@ttnet.net.tr Thu Apr 26 16:12:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhAJz-0006VY-9X; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:12:07 -0400 Received: from [88.242.0.160] (helo=ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhAJp-0002Hq-BU; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:12:07 -0400 Message-ID: <812901c787f3$5db9d150$ac98dd4b@huntalaskaeikoo> Reply-To: "Nikki Hansen" From: "Nikki Hansen" To: "Delilah Ortiz" Cc: "Waltraud Butler" , "Odessa Robinson" , "Giuseppina Richards" , "Rocky" , "Ileana" , "Kari" , "Sang" , "Zelma" , "Melynda" , "Carroll Gomez" , "Marilou" Subject: Tired of all these dramas Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:09:32 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_D57_4E97_698E1D0A.532D1FC0" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 515708a075ffdf0a79d1c83b601e2afd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_D57_4E97_698E1D0A.532D1FC0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_A48_B305_3B0F0976.EFCE3C93" ------=_NextPart_A48_B305_3B0F0976.EFCE3C93 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable deceive fall Do you wash average and Jeff...you know...?I can paint crush= dry imagine how rush difficult it must have been arm famous The two of t= hem glanced over at knit trodden Stacy, who wasI've muscle respect seen a= ll of them, perform among but I wouldn't mind see He picked up the remote, worm scratch point honestly and did so. 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4v4gAAgAOZanSKpmyprviqop7cbzDEE4r+o9yjYTjIQiYg/5IrqYtBIS2mTFosda0kq9raYwXNF4 pBqd0tv2yjU/t2HZeKi1QmXN7Le2FNvPXN4PEA4EhqDhIWKi4iJjI5gjZCRQmuRj5SVmJiUJRoNi w0Wm6Cjp4mZp6emlKmrrquFFweIFgavtLW6u7i5vLwBB6OyOL3Gx8TFyMiMhI2itMnS09DR1pIIs 40VhNXe39zcxxjYj8DD4OXq6uiJEsGP5erz8fDcBBq2k/YUnfb//fy5QvzCBugDhGcCEChcmKgBB kYECfqIaYFBwQZuOjBo3cuzo8SPIkCJHkixp8iRJAChXsmzp8uXIexA72SLQACbOnDp38uzpUqXP oDwbIGRo9CjSpEqXMm3q9CnUqFKnUq1q9SrWrFq3cu3q9SvYsGLHki1r9izatGrXsm3r9i3cuHLn 0q1r9y7evHr38u3r9y/gwIIHEy5s+DDixIoXM24MNwQAOw== ------=_NextPart_D57_4E97_698E1D0A.532D1FC0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 26 17:40:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhBhE-0004ZS-1X for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:40:12 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhBhC-0003br-9q for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:40:12 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhBdI-000LFr-Ms for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:36:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.15.163.216] (helo=tndh.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhBdD-000LF6-PC for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:36:06 +0000 Received: from eagle (127.0.0.1:2359) by tndh.net with [XMail 1.17 (Win32/Ix86) ESMTP Server] id for from ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:36:00 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Tony Hain" To: "'james woodyatt'" , "'IETF V6OPS WG'" References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:35:52 -0700 Message-ID: <013201c7884a$ddd093e0$9971bba0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AceD3HTcuvWojmoSTDWMOISwKr5I4wEW13Zg Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d2fdecab7a7fa796e06e001d026c91 james woodyatt wrote: > On Apr 20, 2007, at 19:05, Tony Hain wrote: > > > > I am trying to catch up here, and I don't think I understand the > > entire > > picture. On one hand it looks like you are trying to insert a > > transparent > > application proxy for the purpose of applying inbound policy > > without user > > intervention. On another it looks like the only thing that you are > > trying to > > proxy are the control protocols for a couple of specific use cases. In > > either case, the problem statement looks more like a perceived need to > > transparently redirect traffic off its normal routing path. For the > > example > > given of the AirPort, it would be on-path by nature of its > > packaging so it > > would have access to implement the policies before forwarding > > without the > > need for any nat function. If I misunderstood please correct me. > > I think you understand correctly. I have both of these concerns. > > On the one hand, there are certain applications that work over IPv4/ > NAT today, which do not work over IPv6 in the default configuration > of AirPort Extreme because the IPv6 SPI filter blocks inbound flows. > These applications are handled properly in the IPv4/NAT case by > application layer gateways (ALG). > > On the other hand, I have the additional concern that we may never > have a method of enabling the utility of new peer-to-peer application > protocols (which nameless boffins are busy designing in their > basement laboratories even as I write, and which scale better and > work more efficiently if no relays need to be reachable in the middle > of the network) *without* having to deploy ALG's everywhere in the > Internet to support them. (See below for more of my thoughts about > that.) First thing we need to do is agree on terminology, not that I know the answer, but it appears that your definition of an ALG & mine are different. To start with I would differentiate a signaling proxy from an ALG, where the former may be required for rendezvous but does nothing with the content stream, and the latter intercepts the content stream and in the case of nat modifies it to deal with embedded addresses. I would also differentiate ALG's based on if their primary purpose is to establish an authentication checkpoint, or simply to align the content stream with the nat mangling. > > If the future IPv6 Internet turns out to be one very much like the > existing IPv4/NAT Internet, then I'm going to need to be able to > deploy ALG's quickly and easily as new application protocols emerge. > That gives me pause, because I already know how the need for ALG's > gives rise to the need for NAT, and I'm really *NOT* excited about > the idea of making a name for myself as the guy who brought NAT to IPv6. We should also come to some agreement about cause & effect. I don't believe that the existence of an ALG creates a need for nat, but the existence of it does allow for the 'opportunity'. SOCKS proxies existed long before nat, and fill one aspect of a perceived need for a managed boundary. > > > It would be useful to understand a deployment scenario where the > > normal > > state would be to intentionally divert traffic off the routing path > > to a > > middle box. In particular, it would need to be clear why that would > > not be > > done by encapsulating at the diversion point, or even simpler by > > forcing the > > device to be on-path by aggregating the policy impacted nodes > > behind it on a > > dedicated subnet. > > This is, I want to be careful to admit up front, a bit speculative. > I may be out of my depth, and I'm hoping to be corrected if my > understanding is wrong. Here's one possible scenario that seems like > the general case that has me concerned: > > Consider the case of an application layer gateway for RTSP deployed > in the firewall for a large population of endpoint nodes, i.e. > numbering in the hundreds of thousands or even millions. Grant that > much of the RTP/RTCP traffic will be sent from media servers to > clients on different paths than the reverse path from the RTSP > servers. Also grant that the fraction of endpoints using RTSP at any > given time is small enough that the network can be provisioned with > vastly fewer RTSP proxy nodes than stateful packet inspection > firewall/routers. I am willing to be open minded here, but that last point is hard to follow. Very few organizations want an abundance of firewalls, so a vastly reduced number of RTSP proxies sounds like a stretch. Typically the goal is to have as few places where policy needs to be enforced as possible, just to make sure it is being enforced consistently. > > In this scenario, diverting the RTSP stream from the firewall/router > to the RTSP proxy transparently should probably be done by > encapsulation rather than NAT, but let's be honest about how this > will probably be developed in practice. Once you've already got an > RTSP proxy that works using NAT to redirect into a node-local > interface address (just like your existing RTSP proxy already does > with IPv4), the shortest path to getting your larger scale RTSP proxy > system up and running is to reuse the mechanism you already have > going. Rather than encapsulate (which comes at the price of having > to write the code that decapsulates at the other end of the tunnel > and still lets TCP process the packets and present an octet stream to > the proxy function), you just redirect with the NAT to an RTSP proxy > node at a different address. This is much easier. That's how > developers will do it. I know that's how *I'M* currently planning to > do it. This description screams out for use of the routing extension header. Off the top of my head it is not clear to me that the firewall could insert one without breaking something else, but if you don't want to write decapsulation code at the receiver, the routing extension header would allow diverting traffic to it while maintaining the original destination. Since this is assumed to be 'transparent' the origin of the packet would not know the diversion destination, but if it were defined that RTSP always carried at least an empty routing header, then the firewall could move the original destination there and forward to the proxy. The extension header parser in the proxy would already know how to swap those back before forwarding on. > > The idea of forcing the client devices to be on-path by aggregating > the policy impacted nodes behind it on a dedicated subnet seems > interesting. What mechanism would you envision for doing that in the > scenario outlined above? I was not thinking about simple restriction to a subnet, rather that the policy enforcement points would be limited in number and a collection of subnets would naturally be aggregated behind those for routing. > > I should also mention that my additional concern about applications > that haven't yet been developed is part of what has me champing for > an alternative to deploying ALG's everywhere. It would be nice to > have a long-term solution that didn't require constant upgrades to > the middleware. That was the point of IPv6. > > Self-organizing peer-to-peer applications seem to be generally > incompatible with stateful packet filters that block all inbound > flows by default. I understand that many in the Internet engineering > community don't consider this failure of end-to-end connectivity to > be a great loss, but I think ordinary users will be unhappy with the > final consequences in terms of application usability unless some > ALG's are deployed to relax policy enforcement according to the > specific needs of applications that can benefit from them. Again, we need to agree on terms here. A signaling proxy would be needed, and a mechanism to dynamically manage the firewall would have to go with that, but an ALG for the content stream doesn't sound like it is required. > > Solutions like STUN/ICE/whathaveyou will always depend on the > existence of two things that do not now exist: 1) a global peer- > rendezvous service, and 2) a well-defined standard behavior for > unmanaged IPv6 SPI firewalls. I can see problems ahead trying to > bring up solutions for each of those problems. I don't see how we > can escape the need for ALG's, and probably NAT as well, by relying > only on SPI side effects. I agree that the IETF has not figured it out yet, but look at NTT's m2m-x effort: http://www.v6.ntt.net/02e_02m2mx.html They have been thinking about this problem space for awhile now, and while the signaling protocol can be debated, the need for coordination between the signaling system and the firewalls is clear. > > I do think there are ways to avoid the need for ALG's, but they're > going to require a lot of socialization-- and that's why you see me > here trying to raise the visibility of these issues, partly by > highlighting the costs of not doing anything, and also by pointing > out practical avenues of development that could lead to practical > solutions. The -nap doc was a start at the problem space. If we need to do additional work to make your RTSP indirection work, then we should start another doc that clearly states the problem and the trade-offs like encapsulation/routing-extension/... > > > While I would encourage a draft on an ICMP protocol type for pinhole > > management to raise the issues, I think one the reasons that the > > IETF has > > trouble in the policy management space is the carve-off-a-tiny-piece > > approach to everything, particularly without any intent to > > understand the > > entire environment. Boiling the ocean is not productive, but > > defining a > > systemic framework where the carved up pieces have some hope of > > relating to > > each other (in some environments that might be called an > > architecture) is > > what the IETF lacks. We have a pile of piece-parts that have been > > defined to > > solve someone's hot-button, but nothing works together in a way > > that allows > > a consistent policy to be implemented across a range of functional > > need. > > Perhaps, now would be a good time to reiterate that Apple designed > the NAT-PMP protocol intending for it not to be easily extended into > more than a transition mechanism for IPv4/NAT, only to be used until > IPv6 deployment is ubiquitous. It was a carve-off-a-tiny-piece > approach because that was good architecture. I was thinking more along the line that we have RSVP, COPS, NSIS, SIP, pick your favorite signaling protocol related to policy, but none of them do more than a small part of what a policy system needs. > > Everyone with whom I've talked about this at Apple believes that any > proposal for a permanent addition to IPv6 for firewalls to discover > application listeners will require an extremely thorough > architectural review. Ideally, we'd like to see the members of IAB > join this discussion and offer whatever advice they think would help > the working group build consensus around an architecturally sound > solution to the class of problems under discussion here. Again, take a look at m2m-x. My comment to them was to use IPsec for auth between the client and the firewall for pinhole management, and to specifically insert a local SIP proxy for cases where the enterprise does not want to allow the carrier to manage the firewall pinholes directly. > > > It sounds like you might have a use case that the -nap- draft does > > not deal > > with. I was presented with another a couple of weeks ago. I do not > > want to > > derail the effort to get the current doc out, because it needed to > > be in RFC > > form about a year ago, but we should start on an update to it that > > covers > > issues the current doc misses and how to resolve them without > > resorting to > > nat. > > In the case of draft-ietf-v6ops-nap, the thing I was initially trying > to help avoid has now already happened in my immediate circles, i.e. > product management has interpreted an INFO as a BCP. It turned out, > much to my embarrassment, that this really wasn't much of a mistake, > and that nobody really cares about the distinction between a > recommendation in an INFO and the same recommendation in a BCP. Lacking operational practice to clearly establish 'best', any information will automatically fill the void. > > I do still think there is a huge, glaring, problem before the V6OPS > group, involving 1) unmanaged IPv6 networks subject to policy > enforcement by 2) unmanaged stateful packet filtering firewalls. > Whether that's really an open problem in the NAP draft, I'll leave to > others to decide. You will have a very hard time with 'unmanaged' in most of the IETF, because they are all technologists that understand how to manage, and most of them build products for professional managers so they just can't get their minds wrapped around the complexity that goes into masking the guts from the end user. Never mind the logical disconnect between 'policy enforcement' as a management function and the need to do that in an 'unmanaged' way. Yes we need a policy signaling protocol suite that can deal with the real trust boundaries in deployed networks, and that does not create a significant burden on application deployment. ALG's (as in mangles the content stream) are not the answer, because as you note they require coordinated updates to deploy the yet to be dreamt up application. Tony From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 26 18:47:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhCkc-0001C8-9c for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:47:46 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhCka-000060-VY for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:47:46 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhCi1-0001F0-PA for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:45:05 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.15.163.216] (helo=tndh.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhChy-0001Cz-Mt for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:45:04 +0000 Received: from eagle (127.0.0.1:2552) by tndh.net with [XMail 1.17 (Win32/Ix86) ESMTP Server] id for from ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:44:59 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Tony Hain" To: "'Ed Jankiewicz'" , Cc: "'Rob Austein'" , , , References: <462D4706.4000504@spaghetti.zurich.ibm.com> <462E7AB4.3050807@piuha.net> <20070425093402.A30586@mignon.ki.iif.hu> <20070425141336.E95D522875@thrintun.hactrn.net> <462F7005.50700@sri.com> In-Reply-To: <462F7005.50700@sri.com> Subject: RE: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:44:50 -0700 Message-ID: <017401c78854$805ac050$811040f0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AceHTKgMBHU9OvoyTfyxYpjQatrdWgBBwUTw Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Before you kill this off too quickly, James Woodyatt's proxy redirection is a perfect example of a use for Type 0 Routing Headers. He wants the firewall to redirect traffic through a designated point (what this header was designed to do), and the only hammer at his immediate disposal was IPv6/IPv6 nat. It is certainly reasonable to have a BCP that says 'these should be filtered at policy boundaries unless there is a good reason to do otherwise', but they are a tool to solve some very specific corner cases. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Ed Jankiewicz > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:13 AM > To: v6ops@ops.ietf.org > Cc: Rob Austein; ipv6@ietf.org; ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de; > nav6tf@ipv6forum.com > Subject: Re: IPv6 Type 0 Routing Header issues > > I am facing a similar dilemma. Currently editing version 2.0 draft of > the US DoD "DISR Product Profiles for IPv6" and considering adding a > THOU SHALT NOT or at least "it would be a great idea if you didn't" > forward based on RH0 due to this vulnerability. At the very least I > will note this risk, suggesting that vendors SHOULD provide a means of > disabling RH0, and also consider disabling by default. > > Especially interested in strong opinions from vendors about difficulty > in complying if that were the case. Cross posting to NAv6TF as well, > but please reply directly to ed.jankiewicz@sri.com and avoid cluttering > up the lists with specific objections and suggestions. I will summarize > back to the lists. > > Thanks > Ed J. > > Rob Austein wrote: > > At Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:41:09 +0200 (CEST), Mohacsi Janos wrote: > > > >> The current patch provided by OpenBSD/FreeBSD makes *BSD IPv6 > >> implemenation non-conformant to standard. > >> > > > > Sometimes violating the standard is the only reasonable thing for an > > implementor to do. The (IPv4) stack I worked on back in the '90s > > shipped with forwarding of directed broadcast disabled by default, > > long before anybody had heard of a "smurf attack". The stack had a > > compile-time option to enable forwarding of directed broadcast; from > > memory, the documentation for that option went something like this: > > > > "This option exists solely to allow this software to comply with RFC > > 1812. Directed broadcast is dangerous, no matter what RFC 1812 > > says. Never enable this option under any circumstances." > > > > Eventually the IETF gathered the collective will to update the > > standard, but as implementors we would have been derelict in our duty > > to our customers had we waited for the IETF. > > > > > > -- > Ed Jankiewicz - SRI International > Fort Monmouth Branch Office - IPv6 Research > Supporting DISA Standards Engineering Branch > 732-389-1003 or ed.jankiewicz@sri.com > From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 26 19:03:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhCzM-0001FO-IX for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:03:00 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhCzL-0002pN-20 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:03:00 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhCyK-0002u5-3Z for v6ops-data@psg.com; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:01:56 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhCyG-0002to-Lm for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:01:54 +0000 Received: from relay7.apple.com (relay7.apple.com [17.128.113.37]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3QN1qRD023558 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay7.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay7.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 2681830084 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:01:52 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807125-a0c4ebb00000097b-b2-46312f601299 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay7.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 0842230051 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <013201c7884a$ddd093e0$9971bba0$@net> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> <" C 118670B-0796-41EE-8D7F -5BA88D885255"@apple.com> <013201c7884a$ddd093e0$9971bba0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:01:51 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 I'm splitting up my replies to this to keep two different conceptual threads of discussion separate. On Apr 26, 2007, at 14:35, Tony Hain wrote: > > First thing we need to do is agree on terminology, not that I know the > answer, but it appears that your definition of an ALG & mine are > different. > > To start with I would differentiate a signaling proxy from an ALG, > where the > former may be required for rendezvous but does nothing with the > content > stream, and the latter intercepts the content stream and in the > case of nat > modifies it to deal with embedded addresses. I don't see any need for an IPv6 filtering ALG to modify the application content, even in the presence of the NAT function I'm talking about. There is no need for more than one IPv6 address realm. > We should also come to some agreement about cause & effect. I don't > believe > that the existence of an ALG creates a need for nat, but the > existence of it > does allow for the 'opportunity'. SOCKS proxies existed long before > nat, and > fill one aspect of a perceived need for a managed boundary. I'm in complete agreement with this. > I am willing to be open minded here, but that last point is hard to > follow. > Very few organizations want an abundance of firewalls, so a vastly > reduced > number of RTSP proxies sounds like a stretch. Typically the goal is > to have > as few places where policy needs to be enforced as possible, just > to make > sure it is being enforced consistently. As I said, my RTSP example was meant to illustrate the general case that has me concerned. It's possible that network operators know more about the practical considerations in this space than I do, and they can speak with authority about whether my concerns are overblown. > This description screams out for use of the routing extension > header. Off > the top of my head it is not clear to me that the firewall could > insert one > without breaking something else, but if you don't want to write > decapsulation code at the receiver, the routing extension header > would allow > diverting traffic to it while maintaining the original destination. > Since > this is assumed to be 'transparent' the origin of the packet would > not know > the diversion destination, but if it were defined that RTSP always > carried > at least an empty routing header, then the firewall could move the > original > destination there and forward to the proxy. The extension header > parser in > the proxy would already know how to swap those back before > forwarding on. I don't think the routing extension header is sufficient to solve the problem. An application layer proxy has to be inserted into the transparently for the signaling of the filter to work properly. I don't see how the routing extension header alone can be made to do that. I'm prepared to admit that using the phrase "Network Address Translation" is a bit overloaded here, since we are just talking about diversion within the single, global IPv6 address realm, but the mechanism is basically the same. The only difference is that it complicates the process of overwriting the IPv6 destination address by the need to also push a routing extension header. I'll agree, though, that defining a way to use routing extension headers for this purpose would be a very good idea, since that's necessary to make path MTU discovery in the presence of transparent application proxies not resident with filtering firewalls work properly. -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 26 20:11:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhE3J-0001bL-M1 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:11:09 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhE3J-0006h1-9D for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:11:09 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhE0H-0008xP-FT for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:08:01 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.15.163.216] (helo=tndh.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhE0D-0008x6-Lm for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:07:59 +0000 Received: from eagle (127.0.0.1:2872) by tndh.net with [XMail 1.17 (Win32/Ix86) ESMTP Server] id for from ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:07:55 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Tony Hain" To: "'james woodyatt'" , "'IETF V6OPS WG'" References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> <" C 118670B-0796-41EE-8 D7F -5BA88D885255"@apple.com> <013201c7884a$ddd093e0$9971bba0$@net> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:07:47 -0700 Message-ID: <018401c78860$16791360$436b3a20$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AceIVzjP9qQdTnLtQ9aLdKp86SRhAwABl/0A Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 james woodyatt wrote: > I'm splitting up my replies to this to keep two different conceptual > threads of discussion separate. > > On Apr 26, 2007, at 14:35, Tony Hain wrote: > > > > First thing we need to do is agree on terminology, not that I know the > > answer, but it appears that your definition of an ALG & mine are > > different. > > > > To start with I would differentiate a signaling proxy from an ALG, > > where the > > former may be required for rendezvous but does nothing with the > > content > > stream, and the latter intercepts the content stream and in the > > case of nat > > modifies it to deal with embedded addresses. > > I don't see any need for an IPv6 filtering ALG to modify the > application content, even in the presence of the NAT function I'm > talking about. There is no need for more than one IPv6 address realm. So essentially you are not really talking about an ALG or NAT at all. What you have defined is a firewall rule that rather than just forward/drop adds a state 'route via', then overwrites & restores the packet between the firewall & the proxy. While that is a simple hack that would work within a single administrative domain, I am not sure we want to standardize that as such. If it turns out that the firewall can insert a routing header and push the real dst there when overwriting with the proxy, then the proxy only has to do standard extension header parsing. > ........... > > > This description screams out for use of the routing extension > > header. Off > > the top of my head it is not clear to me that the firewall could > > insert one > > without breaking something else, but if you don't want to write > > decapsulation code at the receiver, the routing extension header > > would allow > > diverting traffic to it while maintaining the original destination. > > Since > > this is assumed to be 'transparent' the origin of the packet would > > not know > > the diversion destination, but if it were defined that RTSP always > > carried > > at least an empty routing header, then the firewall could move the > > original > > destination there and forward to the proxy. The extension header > > parser in > > the proxy would already know how to swap those back before > > forwarding on. > > I don't think the routing extension header is sufficient to solve the > problem. An application layer proxy has to be inserted into the > transparently for the signaling of the filter to work properly. I > don't see how the routing extension header alone can be made to do that. If the firewall inserts that extension, then pushes the original dst there, that frees up the base header field for the proxy and results in 'standard' extension header processing at the route-via point. > > I'm prepared to admit that using the phrase "Network Address > Translation" is a bit overloaded here, since we are just talking > about diversion within the single, global IPv6 address realm, but the > mechanism is basically the same. The only difference is that it > complicates the process of overwriting the IPv6 destination address > by the need to also push a routing extension header. Doing protocol design based on the ability to reuse existing code is not the best practice. In any case the complexity is simply being moved around here. If you take the nat approach, the proxy has to maintain state to restore the packet. If you take the encapsulation approach, the proxy's stack will hand up an intact packet ready to forward, rather than just the content so the proxy parser would need to deal with that. If you take the extension header approach the firewall has to move the original destination there before overwriting the base with the address of the proxy. The lowest overhead 'stateless' of those is the last one, but I don't know if it breaks anything, and I don't know if the proposed use would run into fragmentation issues. As long as the end to end perceives that the packet sent was the same as the packet received, if middle boxes mangle & restore it there is no real problem. > > I'll agree, though, that defining a way to use routing extension > headers for this purpose would be a very good idea, since that's > necessary to make path MTU discovery in the presence of transparent > application proxies not resident with filtering firewalls work properly. I am buried right now, but in the next couple of months if you want to work on an ID I would be happy to start one. Tony From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 26 20:35:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhEQy-0003Uw-QS for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:35:36 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhEQy-0002PR-Eu for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:35:36 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhEQ8-000BTb-38 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:34:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhEQ5-000BTH-BI for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:34:42 +0000 Received: from relay6.apple.com (a17-128-113-36.apple.com [17.128.113.36]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3R0YbTj002503 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay6.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay6.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id D49EE1011B for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:34:37 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807124-a1c9fbb000000872-cf-4631451dae93 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay6.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id C30E4100EB for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <018401c78860$16791360$436b3a20$@net> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> <" C 118670B-0796-41EE-8 D7F -5BA88D885255"@apple.com> <013201c7884a$ddd093e0$9971bba0$@net> <018401c78860$16791360$436b3a20$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:34:37 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 On Apr 26, 2007, at 17:07, Tony Hain wrote: > > While that is a simple hack that would work within a single > administrative > domain, I am not sure we want to standardize that as such. If it > turns out > that the firewall can insert a routing header and push the real dst > there > when overwriting with the proxy, then the proxy only has to do > standard > extension header parsing. At this point, I'm now persuaded that having a proxy remote from the filtering router will require the path between them to use some kind of encapsulation that looks like a routing extension header. I'm still convinced that type code zero is the *wrong* one, but whatever... (at the diversion point, on the return path from the proxy, the source address needs to be rewritten to match the real destination, not the proxy, and normal routing extension header processing doesn't do that.) I agree I'm guilty of a poor choice in words. The IETF has defined a way to scribble on the destination addresses in IPv6 headers, and despite my long habit of calling that behavior by the name "network address translation," I should stop calling it that because, with IPv6, there is only one address realm involved. Of course, I do need a way to scribble on source addresses as well as destination addresses... -- j h woodyatt From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 26 20:58:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhEmm-0001qN-D3 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:58:08 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhEmk-0005pS-21 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:58:08 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhEkN-000EDq-KB for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:55:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [171.71.176.117] (helo=sj-iport-6.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhEkK-000EDe-U9 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:55:38 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-4.cisco.com ([171.71.179.196]) by sj-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2007 17:55:36 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,458,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="141163602:sNHT44979156" Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (sj-core-5.cisco.com [171.71.177.238]) by sj-dkim-4.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3R0taUW027295; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:55:36 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3R0taEi023175; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:55:36 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:55:36 -0700 Received: from [10.32.244.220] ([10.32.244.220]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:55:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <1136D13C-529A-4F10-80F3-5AA64D93AA3C@cisco.com> Cc: v6ops , Internet-Drafts@ietf.org, Ron Bonica Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Fred Baker Subject: OK, we need a draft... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:55:36 -0700 To: james woodyatt X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2007 00:55:35.0591 (UTC) FILETIME=[C3C5CB70:01C78866] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1515; t=1177635336; x=1178499336; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim4002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20Fred=20Baker=20 |Subject:=20OK,=20we=20need=20a=20draft... |Sender:=20; bh=T+G5SzLc8qGrVhFv/6nVQEbI4kN6Q+Dt+QXFSUIw5RI=; b=pIX3axL7zznITMNkLqZFAtWVD5aum/L0rIWSQYzcK1rxeIv5w3gIXpQ5CvpakA3FfT/OmXIq m/U8BJ5gWtqFTyJ1gFvBOeF8y/LCT5r6JPgH5Jr0aPYAxyFh4utcwacW; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-4; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim4002 verified; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b OK. I, in my infinite wisdom, have decided. We need a draft. The subject, if not the title, is "Specific recommendations to vendors of devices that will provide security capabilities in Internet-enabled homes". Note that this is not limited to home in which the 802.11 access point is the only network in the home, nor it is limited to homes without. I'm thinking Apple Airport, Linksys, D-Link, God help us.. Folks I want involved this include: Tony Hain Remi Denis-Courmont Brian Carpenter Christian Huitema Ed Jankiewicz Eric Klein Gert Doering Iljitsch van Beijnum Mark Smith Pekka Savola Thomas Narten Wesley Eddy James Woodyatt Please copy me and Kurtis as well, as WG chairs. Set up a design team mailing list if you like. If someone else wants to be involved, they can negotiate the matter with you. James, can I get you to be the primary editor, accept inputs from those who are willing to work with you, and have you lead a 30 minute discussion at the coming IETF meeting around an internet draft that you will have posted by mid-June (whatever the cut-off date is)? Are you willing? This is not "ten minutes of status". This is "Let's discuss this live". I'm looking for a document with the moniker draft-ietf-v6ops- residential-cpe-00.txt, which with this email I authorize the secretariat to consider a WG draft. From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Thu Apr 26 21:36:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhFNx-0001OH-Qx for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:36:33 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhFNx-0004ik-C1 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:36:33 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhFLi-000HlB-FI for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:34:14 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [17.254.13.22] (helo=mail-out3.apple.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhFLf-000Hkl-6P for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:34:12 +0000 Received: from relay7.apple.com (relay7.apple.com [17.128.113.37]) by mail-out3.apple.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3R1YAUk007170 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay7.apple.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by relay7.apple.com (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id A804730440 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:34:10 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 11807125-a2c52bb00000097b-93-46315312be97 Received: from [17.206.50.218] (il0602f-dhcp218.apple.com [17.206.50.218]) by relay7.apple.com (Apple SCV relay) with ESMTP id 55D573005F for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <013201c7884a$ddd093e0$9971bba0$@net> References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> <" C 118670B-0796-41EE-8D7F -5BA88D885255"@apple.com> <013201c7884a$ddd093e0$9971bba0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: james woodyatt Subject: application listener discovery in the presence of stateful firewalls Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:34:10 -0700 To: IETF V6OPS WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 42e3ed3f10a1d8bef690f09da16f507a everyone-- This is a continuation of a previous discussion under the subject "Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6." On Apr 26, 2007, at 14:35, Tony Hain wrote: > james woodyatt wrote: >> >> I should also mention that my additional concern about applications >> that haven't yet been developed is part of what has me champing for >> an alternative to deploying ALG's everywhere. It would be nice to >> have a long-term solution that didn't require constant upgrades to >> the middleware. > > That was the point of IPv6. Perhaps. I'm not sure it *remains* the point. From where I sit, it looks like we're all about restoring the Internet to a single, universal addressing realm. There does remain some politicking on the side about address space resource allocation-- but, that seems aimed more at promoting transition in the minds of those who don't comprehend the addressing realm issue. (I'm doubtful that a political campaign will work, because I think the intended audience is at least smart enough to understand that economists know a lot about the practical matters of allocating scarce resources.) My biggest worry about IPv6 is that transition may be slowed or even halted because of the basic problem that applications which work over IPv4/NAT today can't be made to work over IPv6 too, without still deploying ALG's everywhere and/or developing the moral equivalent of UPnP IGD and NAT-PMP (minus the UNSAF aspect). > Again, take a look at m2m-x. My comment to them was to use IPsec > for auth > between the client and the firewall for pinhole management, and to > specifically insert a local SIP proxy for cases where the > enterprise does > not want to allow the carrier to manage the firewall pinholes > directly. I've seen many proposals like this over the years. I don't like them for three reasons: 1) they're separate from the IETF standards that specify the requirements for IPv6 nodes and routers, and therefore likely to be available only on a limited subset of the Internet to a limited set of applications; 2) they require application layer protocols to participate in network layer signaling; and... 3) they don't permit peer-to-peer applications to work without relying on the availability of a third-party relay service. In my humble opinion, this class of solutions represents a perversion of the Internet architecture-- though I recognize the IAB vigorously disagrees with this view. I think applications shouldn't have to ask the network to see if they will be able to communicate before they begin communicating. They should just attempt to communicate directly and offer users information to facilitate troubleshooting when communication fails for policy reasons. These systems like m2m-x, ICE, STUN, etc. don't permit that-- instead, they require applications to communicate with a signaling rendezvous point to set up the network to allow communication to take place before they can initiate direct communications between user endpoints. They're necessary evils where UNSAF methods are required for any communication to happen at all. They're an abomination in the absence of network address translation. >> I do still think there is a huge, glaring, problem before the V6OPS >> group, involving 1) unmanaged IPv6 networks subject to policy >> enforcement by 2) unmanaged stateful packet filtering firewalls. >> Whether that's really an open problem in the NAP draft, I'll leave to >> others to decide. > > You will have a very hard time with 'unmanaged' in most of the > IETF, because > they are all technologists that understand how to manage, and most > of them > build products for professional managers so they just can't get > their minds > wrapped around the complexity that goes into masking the guts from > the end > user. Never mind the logical disconnect between 'policy > enforcement' as a > management function and the need to do that in an 'unmanaged' way. I'm referring to unmanaged networks in the sense defined in section 5.2 of RFC 2462, particularly with regard to the "OtherConfigFlag" conceptual variable: >>> OtherConfigFlag Copied from the O flag field (i.e., the >>> "other >>> stateful configuration" flag) of the most >>> recently received Router Advertisement >>> message. >>> The flag indicates whether or not information >>> other than addresses is to be obtained >>> using the >>> stateful autoconfiguration mechanism. It >>> starts >>> out in a FALSE state. >>> >>> In addition, when the value of the >>> ManagedFlag is >>> TRUE, the value of OtherConfigFlag is >>> implicitely >>> TRUE as well. It is not a valid >>> configuration for >>> a host to use stateful address >>> autoconfiguration >>> to request addresses only, without also >>> accepting >>> other configuration >>> information. At least with DHCP6, you can imagine defining some options for telling nodes on "managed" networks, i.e. those with OtherConfigFlag set TRUE, about firewalls that have to be signaled to make applications work. If there is no configuration service, however, I don't see how nodes can discover firewalls to signal without either 1) doing something really noisy, or 2) adding a new router advertisement option to help control the problem. New router advertisement option definitions, I'm told, are a tough sell in IETF. The point you make about conveying to IETF regulars the complexity of, the importance of, and the foresight required in choosing appropriate defaults for consumer-grade network appliances is well taken. It's clear to me now that the IETF has applied less thought to making the Internet easier for ordinary people to use than to making the operation of Internet services easier for technocrats to manage. Hopefully, it's not too late to do something about that. -- j h woodyatt From irish57@planet.nl Thu Apr 26 23:47:36 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhHQm-00060F-3I for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:47:36 -0400 Received: from psmtp04.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.13]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhHQl-00055t-Pp for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:47:36 -0400 Received: from po07.wxs.nl ([10.94.53.251]) by psmtp04.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JH5004MY17AHN@psmtp04.wxs.nl> for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:47:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: from planet.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by po07.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.07 (built Jun 24 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH500ITX17ABM@po07.wxs.nl> for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:47:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.94.71.42] (Forwarded-For: 192.168.0.24, [81.199.172.188]) by po07.wxs.nl (mshttpd); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:47:34 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:47:34 -0800 From: irish57@planet.nl Subject: Confirm Your winning Amount Reply-to: irish57@planet.nl Message-id: <8ddc408d942d.8d942d8ddc40@planet.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 2.02 (built Oct 21 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-language: nl Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: nl Priority: normal X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 37af5f8fbf6f013c5b771388e24b09e7 The Irish Lottery P O Box 1010 11 G Lower Dorset Street=2C Dublin 1=2C Ireland (Customer Services) Ref=3A UK/9420X2/68 Batch=3A 074/05/ZY369 WINNING NOTIFICATION=3A We happily announce to you the draw (=231004) of the IRISH LOTTERY online= = Sweepstakes International program held on Wednesday 25 April 2007 =2E = It = is now available for claims and you are getting the final NOTIFICATION = as regards this=2EYour e-mail address attached to ticket = number=3A56475600545 188 with Serial number 5368/02 drew the lucky = numbers=3A08=2C 11=2C 23=2C 25=2C 40=2C 44=2C Bonus 29 =2C which subse= quently won = you = the lottery in the 1st category i=2Ee match 5 plus bonus=2E You have therefore been approved to claim a total sum of = =A31=2C350=2C000(One million=2C three hundred and fifty thousand=2C pound= s = sterling) in cash = credited to file KTU/9023118308/03=2E This is from a total cash prize of = =A34=2C419=2C864 shared amongst the(5)lucky winners in this category i=2E= e = Match 6 plus bonus=2EAll participants for the online version were = selected = randomly from World Wide Web sites through computer draw system and = extracted from over 100=2C000 unions=2C associations=2C and corporate bod= ies = that are listed online=2E = This promotion takes place weekly=2EPlease note that your lucky winning = number falls within our European booklet representative office in = Europe = as indicated in your play coupon=2E In view of this=2C your = =A31=2C350=2C000(One million=2C three hundred and fifty thousand=2C pound= s = sterling) will be = released to you by any of our payment offices in Europe=2E = Our European agent will immediately commence the process to facilitate = the release of your funds as soon as you contact him=2EFor security = reasons=2C you are advised to keep your winning information confidential = till = your claim is processed and your money remitted to you in whatever = manner you deem fit to claim your prize=2E This is part of our precautionary measure to avoid double claiming and = unwarranted abuse of this program=2E Please be warned!!! = To file for your claim=2C please contact our fiduciary agent=3A Mr=2E Benard Wolds=2C Email=3A info=5Firishclaimsagent01=40yahoo=2Eco=2Euk = Tel =3A( +44)-7045708982 Endeavour to email him the informations below=3A Full names=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Address=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E sex=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Age=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Winning numbers=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Email address=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Telephone=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Occupation=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E= =2E=2E Country=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E immediately=2E Congratulations from me and members of staff of THE IRISH LOTTERY=2E Yours faithfully=2C Sir=2E kolyn parkins Online coordinator for THE IRISH LOTTERY Sweepstakes International Program THE IRISH LOTTERY COPYRIGHT =C2=A9 1994-2007 ALL RIGHT RESERVED From irish57@planet.nl Thu Apr 26 23:47:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhHR7-0006V9-LB for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:47:57 -0400 Received: from smtp19.wxs.nl ([195.121.247.10]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhHR6-0005Ij-B2 for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:47:57 -0400 Received: from po07.wxs.nl ([10.94.53.251]) by smtp19.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.15 (built Nov 14 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JH5009ZI17V7K@smtp19.wxs.nl> for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:47:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from planet.nl ([127.0.0.1]) by po07.wxs.nl (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.07 (built Jun 24 2005)) with ESMTP id <0JH500IY817VBM@po07.wxs.nl> for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 05:47:55 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [10.94.71.42] (Forwarded-For: 192.168.0.24, [81.199.172.188]) by po07.wxs.nl (mshttpd); Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:47:55 -0800 Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:47:55 -0800 From: irish57@planet.nl Subject: Confirm Your winning Amount Reply-to: irish57@planet.nl Message-id: <8dcfc68dd296.8dd2968dcfc6@planet.nl> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 2.02 (built Oct 21 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-language: nl Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: nl Priority: normal X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 37af5f8fbf6f013c5b771388e24b09e7 The Irish Lottery P O Box 1010 11 G Lower Dorset Street=2C Dublin 1=2C Ireland (Customer Services) Ref=3A UK/9420X2/68 Batch=3A 074/05/ZY369 WINNING NOTIFICATION=3A We happily announce to you the draw (=231004) of the IRISH LOTTERY online= = Sweepstakes International program held on Wednesday 25 April 2007 =2E = It = is now available for claims and you are getting the final NOTIFICATION = as regards this=2EYour e-mail address attached to ticket = number=3A56475600545 188 with Serial number 5368/02 drew the lucky = numbers=3A08=2C 11=2C 23=2C 25=2C 40=2C 44=2C Bonus 29 =2C which subse= quently won = you = the lottery in the 1st category i=2Ee match 5 plus bonus=2E You have therefore been approved to claim a total sum of = =A31=2C350=2C000(One million=2C three hundred and fifty thousand=2C pound= s = sterling) in cash = credited to file KTU/9023118308/03=2E This is from a total cash prize of = =A34=2C419=2C864 shared amongst the(5)lucky winners in this category i=2E= e = Match 6 plus bonus=2EAll participants for the online version were = selected = randomly from World Wide Web sites through computer draw system and = extracted from over 100=2C000 unions=2C associations=2C and corporate bod= ies = that are listed online=2E = This promotion takes place weekly=2EPlease note that your lucky winning = number falls within our European booklet representative office in = Europe = as indicated in your play coupon=2E In view of this=2C your = =A31=2C350=2C000(One million=2C three hundred and fifty thousand=2C pound= s = sterling) will be = released to you by any of our payment offices in Europe=2E = Our European agent will immediately commence the process to facilitate = the release of your funds as soon as you contact him=2EFor security = reasons=2C you are advised to keep your winning information confidential = till = your claim is processed and your money remitted to you in whatever = manner you deem fit to claim your prize=2E This is part of our precautionary measure to avoid double claiming and = unwarranted abuse of this program=2E Please be warned!!! = To file for your claim=2C please contact our fiduciary agent=3A Mr=2E Benard Wolds=2C Email=3A info=5Firishclaimsagent01=40yahoo=2Eco=2Euk = Tel =3A( +44)-7045708982 Endeavour to email him the informations below=3A Full names=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Address=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E sex=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Age=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Winning numbers=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Email address=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Telephone=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E Occupation=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E= =2E=2E Country=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E immediately=2E Congratulations from me and members of staff of THE IRISH LOTTERY=2E Yours faithfully=2C Sir=2E kolyn parkins Online coordinator for THE IRISH LOTTERY Sweepstakes International Program THE IRISH LOTTERY COPYRIGHT =C2=A9 1994-2007 ALL RIGHT RESERVED From joutmikeutxycis@nordblom.com Fri Apr 27 00:20:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhHx1-0006Ip-4q; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:20:55 -0400 Received: from [124.248.78.239] (helo=nordblom.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhHww-0003P8-Ud; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:20:55 -0400 Message-ID: <1a7901c78846$6fad8700$7faaba5b@joutmikeutxycis> From: "Ashley" To: "Columbus Martinez" Cc: "Launa" , "Rick Alexander" , "Margeret" , "Leatha Wells" , "Jimmie" , "Nolan Gonzales" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Cami Castillo" , "Tanya Rogers" Subject: It is fine. Dont' worry Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:04:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_362_2A67_1C10D0BA.883B6B9A" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_362_2A67_1C10D0BA.883B6B9A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_B13_F38F_E5138FB8.00405917" ------=_NextPart_B13_F38F_E5138FB8.00405917 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Better write note it animal here. selfishly basin Quills in the postoffic= e chefetch Bald Pat at ball way a soft sign drew nigh. A pen and ink. He = wedisease by Old Garryowen started drink fake growling again at Bloom tha= tharsh payment Decree learning nisi, screw says J. J. Dollard put language in and Cowley still urged annually the lingering sin= geAnd there rises a act preserve bake shining overthrew palace whose crys= tal glifly Rather seen crawl lowsized, malic Dignam of Menton's office th= atCharacters:Bending sing archly she reckoned cloth again fat competition= mark pears and bl apian And blow Bloom letting on to be prefer slew awfully deeply interest= wooly long ornament roll With it, Simon.Come in, come on, he won't cat bl= eed eat approve you, impossible says the ciIt, Simon. flee ink glove I dare sprout him, says he, and I doubledare him. Comeway = trade condition potato TOBY TOSTOFF (a ruined Pole)drab Ladies and gentle= men, I sank am thumb blush most deeply obligedYes, Mr pull Bloom said, re= ply teasing puzzled shy the curling catgutwobble wept A mute dishonoured = wife, says the heat citizen, that's wh And here she is, statement says Alf, boldly apologise that bring was gigg= ling ovfasten winter dead spare Grandest number in the whole opera, Gould= ing sapat rob vascular rarely It is, Bloom said.It, Simon. end wrung Blazes Boylan back looked in goat her blouse with more favoulit= loss I have no crime money but balneal if you will lend me your atLong i= sland experience development John Fanning pin could not remember him. growth vivacious And division alvine by that way wend the herds innumerab= le of bellClatter of save drawer horsehoofs sounded cheerfully shrilly fr= om the air.curly By the cast bear sandwichbell in parcel screening shadow= , Lydia herThe harping outstanding chords of prelude cork argue closed. v= oice A chord long What's force apple lie level that? Martin Cunningham said.May produce I s= ay a tell identify word to your telephone, in missy? he abrush bulb Numbe= rs protest it is. All music when you calculate come to think. TCRAB (a bu= shranger) And what glass was flight it only one bump frantically of the smutty yank= ee pictMEDICAL DICKWhen cruelly blade first I saw embarrass hemal that fo= rm ening.Richie turned.crash box So we house turned into Barney Kiernan's= bright and there sure Instance he's brush playing now. compete screeching Improvising. do Might= be wsternly O smell Jakers, Jenny, says Joe, door how cuddly short your = shirtinsurance prison All amount turned where they stood; John irritate W= yse Nolan came ------=_NextPart_B13_F38F_E5138FB8.00405917 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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apian And blow Bloom letting on to be pr= efer slew awfully deeply interestwooly long ornament roll With it, Simon.= Come in, come on, he won't cat bleed eat approve you, impossible says the= ciIt, Simon.
flee ink glove I dare sprout him, says h= e, and I doubledare him. Comeway trade condition potato TOBY TOSTOFF (a r= uined Pole)drab Ladies and gentlemen, I sank am thumb blush most deeply o= bligedYes, Mr pull Bloom said, reply teasing puzzled shy the curling catg= utwobble wept A mute dishonoured wife, says the heat citizen, that's wh
And here she is, statement says Alf, bol= dly apologise that bring was giggling ovfasten winter dead spare Grandest= number in the whole opera, Goulding sapat rob vascular rarely It is, Blo= om said.It, Simon.
end wrung Blazes Boylan back looked in g= oat her blouse with more favoulit loss I have no crime money but balneal = if you will lend me your atLong island experience development John Fannin= g pin could not remember him.
growth vivacious And division alvine by = that way wend the herds innumerable of bellClatter of save drawer horseho= ofs sounded cheerfully shrilly from the air.curly By the cast bear sandwi= chbell in parcel screening shadow, Lydia herThe harping outstanding chord= s of prelude cork argue closed. voice A chord long
What's force apple lie level that? Marti= n Cunningham said.May produce I say a tell identify word to your telephon= e, in missy? he abrush bulb Numbers protest it is. All music when you cal= culate come to think. TCRAB (a bushranger)
And what glass was flight it only one bu= mp frantically of the smutty yankee pictMEDICAL DICKWhen cruelly blade fi= rst I saw embarrass hemal that form ening.Richie turned.crash box So we h= ouse turned into Barney Kiernan's bright and there sure
Instance he's brush playing now. compete= screeching Improvising. do Might be wsternly O smell Jakers, Jenny, says= Joe, door how cuddly short your shirtinsurance prison All amount turned = where they stood; John irritate Wyse Nolan came
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02:53:15 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhKKP-00057k-P3 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:53:15 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhKE8-000NzM-69 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:46:44 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [194.242.114.73] (helo=poy.chewa.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhKE3-000Nz0-LY for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:46:42 +0000 Received: by poy.chewa.net (Postfix, from userid 33) id C50B6967F6; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:46:37 +0200 (CEST) To: james woodyatt Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 8:46:37 +0200 From: Remi Denis-Courmont Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Organization: Remlab.net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <831bb9d027f77b374abcf2d0eeadbedf@localhost> X-Sender: rdenis@simphalempin.com User-Agent: RoundCube Webmail/0.1b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:34:37 -0700, james woodyatt wrote: > At this point, I'm now persuaded that having a proxy remote from the > filtering router will require the path between them to use some kind > of encapsulation that looks like a routing extension header. If you transmit "raw" IPv6 packets, yes. Of course, you're going to have some big headaches with MTU if you encapsulate, however... Unless you put some logic in the "filtering router" so that it returns a Packet too big error if it sees a packet it wants to encapsulate but cannot. I am personnaly not convinced whether we really need a new RH type instead of using plain proto-41 encapsulation, though. Another option, that might not suffer from the MTU issue would be to use a different EtherType and pass network-layer packets unmodified, but that's ugly and assumes a shared medium between the filter and the proxy. > I'm still convinced that type code zero is the *wrong* one, but > whatever... (at the diversion point, on the return path from the > proxy, the source address needs to be rewritten to match the real > destination, not the proxy, and normal routing extension header > processing doesn't do that.) I agree. I would additionnaly rather not RHT0 be modified by middleboxes in a way that is not specified. -- RĆ©mi Denis-Courmont http://www.remlab.net/ From baudette172@atom999.com Fri Apr 27 02:54:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhKLI-0002E1-C3 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:54:08 -0400 Received: from [86.125.251.164] (helo=atom999.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhKLG-0005FI-Tf for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:54:08 -0400 Message-ID: <001c01c788b1$fe3a96f0$0686ff7c@user> From: "Howard Houser" To: "v6ops-archive" Subject: To guttenberg whom minter Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:54:05 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01C788B1.FE3A96F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1081 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C788B1.FE3A96F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alert for you.. 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------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C788B1.FE3A96F0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 03:22:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhKnC-0004JL-56 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:22:58 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhKnA-0003Ex-BR for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:22:58 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhKm9-0001Tj-Np for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:21:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [221.249.121.227] (helo=coconut.itojun.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhKm6-0001TJ-Lq for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:21:52 +0000 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id AF4611C060; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:21:49 +0900 (JST) To: jhw@apple.com Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: application listener discovery in the presence of stateful firewalls In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:34:10 -0700" References: X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070427072149.AF4611C060@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:21:49 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a > everyone-- > > This is a continuation of a previous discussion under the subject > "Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6." > > On Apr 26, 2007, at 14:35, Tony Hain wrote: > > james woodyatt wrote: > >> > >> I should also mention that my additional concern about applications > >> that haven't yet been developed is part of what has me champing for > >> an alternative to deploying ALG's everywhere. It would be nice to > >> have a long-term solution that didn't require constant upgrades to > >> the middleware. > > > > That was the point of IPv6. > > Perhaps. I'm not sure it *remains* the point. IPv6 NAT? you moron. i'll remove Vincent Lubet from merge@kame. no new information will nor help will reach Steve. even if you give me 8core MacTower, i won't. i will never forgive you if you implement NAT in AirPortExtremeSuperDuper. # sorry for foul language. too much stress and sleepless nights. # how come you can think i could go to bed? itojun From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 03:33:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhKxW-0000Sc-Q2 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:33:38 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhKxV-0004hu-CN for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 03:33:38 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhKwk-0002VL-FZ for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:32:50 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [131.228.20.173] (helo=mgw-ext14.nokia.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhKwh-0002V2-AN for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:32:49 +0000 Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-ext14.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l3R7Wdqa014017 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:32:44 +0300 Received: from esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.33]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:31:23 +0300 Received: from esebe199.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.143]) by esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:31:23 +0300 Received: from 172.21.151.47 ([172.21.151.47]) by esebe199.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.143]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:31:23 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.3.061214 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:31:13 +0300 Subject: Review of IPv6 Implications for Network Scanning From: "Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo)" To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Review of IPv6 Implications for Network Scanning Thread-Index: AceIngheRzM/r/SREdu9SQAWy5ylJg== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2007 07:31:23.0427 (UTC) FILETIME=[0E95FF30:01C7889E] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Hello everybody, Now (finally) I have reviewed the network scanning document. I thing in a confused state in Prague, I decided to volunteer for it. (Perhaps, I was just stretching my hand and Fred thought I was volunteering...) Anyways, I have gone through the document and it seems mostly ready to go forward. I have one more substantial comment and then a couple of kind-of-my-personal-opinion-do-what-you-want-with-it-comments. However, in general I think the document is in pretty good shape, and I leave the decision whether to take these comments into account to the author. (The significance is not too high)... "Technical" comment: ==================== Section 5.5. Rolling Server Addresses: I don't know if I now open an old can of worms and this was already substantially discussed in the mailing list in the past. However, I find this section a bit silly. The idea of a server is to be locatable. Actually you make it easier reachable by adding its address to the DNS usually. So, there are usually easier and more effective ways of finding it than scanning the whole network. For instance, if you want to attack the mail server of a network, you don't usually scan the whole network, but look at the appropriate MX record - just the same you would do if you want to send mail to that network. So, advising people to change the addresses on their servers seem unlikely to bring any benefit. I don't think the section is per se harmful. However, it might confuse some readers. An I think the section not particularly useful either. I would propose to remove it completely. Editorial comment: ================== 1) Abstract: The abstract is a bit long to my taste, and might confuse the reader. I would encourage the author to think about rewording it in a way where you could see right away that this is a document to give guidance on how to mitigate the risk of network scanning in IPv6 networks. The information about the differences of the address space sizes in IPv4 and IPv6 can be in the introduction, though. However, IMHO the purpose of the document should be clearly, shortly, and directly readable from the abstract. 2) Conclusion: The summary in the end of the conclusion section (comprising more than half of the whole section) is IMHO redundant. This kind of short summary is used often in academic papers, but I don't think they are needed in an IETF RFC. Cheers, Jonne. -- Jonne Soininen Nokia Siemens Networks Tel: +358 40 527 46 34 E-mail: jonne.soininen@nsn.com From egyptramg@hinet.net Fri Apr 27 04:00:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhLNT-0008BG-Hz; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:00:27 -0400 Received: from 125-230-28-186.dynamic.hinet.net ([125.230.28.186] helo=hinet.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhLNO-0003Oq-II; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:00:27 -0400 Message-ID: <37fd01c78842$d5117a60$4e26cc3c@egyptramg> Reply-To: "Inocencia" From: "Inocencia" To: "Summer" Cc: "Ailene" , "Bernie Mitchell" , "Mistie" , "Emiko" , "Selina" , "Nolan" , "Catarina Riley" , "Asley" , "Heather Chapman" Subject: Thx for all ur help Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:38:22 -1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_B2D_4C57_7DDA8AA0.EE07BA1C" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000736-2, 2007/04/26), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e654cfa5e44bd623be3eb2c720858b05 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_B2D_4C57_7DDA8AA0.EE07BA1C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_0E2_006E_944ADC60.6FE63E99" ------=_NextPart_0E2_006E_944ADC60.6FE63E99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Lieutenant introduced the card number beset stick crying woman. DaTom= orrow after school, powerful driving gotten long can you meet me in room = rung This came icy as quite a point surprise smiling to Dana. She neveDan= a sense knee tomorrow spoke lost up from the passenger seat. The Mar Well, I don't sung have gracefully one. I explode agree with moaning you.= At oSo tomorrow are justly you muscle tin gonna teach market me to catch= ? infamous Dana thought for a receipt work moment. I map suppose. 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([203.141.10.101] helo=cypress.ne.jp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhLgB-00079Q-Bv; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 04:20:52 -0400 Message-ID: <361501c788dc$93a58770$250645dc@cnskipomo> From: "Araceli" To: "Leta Bailey" Cc: "Lakesha Scott" , "Dung" , "Angelic" , "Rowena" , "Natosha Elliott" , "Kai" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Breanna" , "Zola Hunter" Subject: Try it and find out more Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:58:55 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_CDD_4C11_2AAB8BC9.3A758388" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V9.0.2416 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 681e62a2ce9b0804b459fe780d892beb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_CDD_4C11_2AAB8BC9.3A758388 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_B4C_7F21_ECB821C9.E72FA48A" ------=_NextPart_B4C_7F21_ECB821C9.E72FA48A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable month Pearl! shame Little remain knot Pearl! Where are you?representative= forsook Foolish woman! clean responded send the physician, half col And = now overthrown this fateful step blood interview spill had come to a clos= eTHE BAWD come know Listen to who's talk lock talking! Hasn't the soldi THE VOICE sink smash OF LYNCH scissors (In the paid thicket.) Whew! Pipin= gearn afraid TUTTI Encore! confused desire Bis! Bravo! Encore! As year desert she still hesitated, match somatic being, in fact, in no r= eas Pearl, whose activity dirty of nail book hidden spirit never flagged,= had wash I know opinion not Lethe spoon nor direction Nepenthe, remarked= he; but doubt forget (They grab at judge each pain other's hair, claw at= each othe MINA fade KENNEDY suggest motion (Her eyes upturned.) O, it save must be = liTHE VOICE queue OF ZOE (From the thicket.) puzzled clean Came coach fro= m a h defiant interest SIMON interfere Think of against your mother's peo= ple! THE VOICE OF VIRAG (A suspend birdchief behind important stood blues= treaked and f THE triangular include RETRIEVER guide drew (Barking.) Wow wow wow. Her w= hip final employment was cat to stood gather mist sea-weed, of va clung H= e color presented the cup squeak to Hester, chance who received it wi I r= eal suffer wonder withstand if mother will ask me what really it means? t= h Ha, tempter! use Methinks thou sawed art coal man too late! answere rung strive BLOOM snake easy It overpowers me. The warm impress of her wa= soap LYDIA withstand DOUCE (Her mouth smash opening.) Yumyum. carefully O= , he's c KITTY cloud (Laughing.) meddle land split Hee hee hee. awful imp= rove comfortable STEPHEN edificial Dance of death. (Bang fresh stridden = comfort barang bang of order curious lacquey's bell, horse, owner scold AS the minister departed, in merrily advance telephone of Hes= ter Prytasteless He hospital again beam annoyed extended his hand to the = woman of the scapeep read BLOOM (Shoves discovery them back, argument lou= dly.) Get back, stand waste I sold have thought degree mistake of death, = said she- have wished boot slung precede ashamed PRIVATE COMPTON (Tugging his comrade.) Here bu= gger In star tooth order to free vulpine regret his mind from this indist= inctness Just then, cry she strap heard her mother's umbrella grip voice,= and flitt She error alvine profit took her easily mother's hand in both = her own, and ga rose left Hester Prynne, cried he, hand with front a pier= cing earnest BOYLAN'S record abecedarian VOICE rejoice (Sweetly, hoarsely= , in pull the pit of h THE WATERFALLMARION'S VOICE slit sow blunt (Hoarsely, sweetly short risin= g to her th(The couples veracious fall aside. knelt Stephen stone sowed w= hirls giddily. R Phillaphulla Poulaphouca BLOOM (His eyes powerful wildly= understood spoon shrill dilated, clasps himself) Sh Drink, bloody noisily then, replied upset damage he, still with the same = col (Two raincaped by lie watch, tall, stand cross agreement in the group= ) cat without FIRST swim WATCH meddle What's wrong here? My little Pearl, deserve reply said Hester, after mine property a moment'= s s The crowd was spring smash in a tumult. The men rejoice lost of rank = and dig brother breed Pearl's root inevitable tendency defiantly to hover= about the eni Without further split funny hurt cough expostulation or de= lay, Hester Pry Hadst shoe thou sought tease colourful the whole broken e= arth over, said he, collar crazy BELLA, ZOE, FLORRY. KITTY park town Ho h= o! Ha ha! Hee hee! ------=_NextPart_B4C_7F21_ECB821C9.E72FA48A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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month Pearl! shame Little remain knot Pe= arl! Where are you?representative forsook Foolish woman! clean responded = send the physician, half col And now overthrown this fateful step blood i= nterview spill had come to a closeTHE BAWD come know Listen to who's talk= lock talking! Hasn't the soldi
THE VOICE sink smash OF LYNCH scissors (= In the paid thicket.) Whew! Pipingearn afraid TUTTI Encore! confused desi= re Bis! Bravo! Encore!
As year desert she still hesitated, matc= h somatic being, in fact, in no reas Pearl, whose activity dirty of nail = book hidden spirit never flagged, had wash I know opinion not Lethe spoon= nor direction Nepenthe, remarked he; but doubt forget (They grab at judg= e each pain other's hair, claw at each othe
MINA fade KENNEDY suggest motion (Her ey= es upturned.) O, it save must be liTHE VOICE queue OF ZOE (From the thick= et.) puzzled clean Came coach from a h defiant interest SIMON interfere T= hink of against your mother's people! THE VOICE OF VIRAG (A suspend birdc= hief behind important stood bluestreaked and f
THE triangular include RETRIEVER guide d= rew (Barking.) Wow wow wow. Her whip final employment was cat to stood ga= ther mist sea-weed, of va clung He color presented the cup squeak to Hest= er, chance who received it wi I real suffer wonder withstand if mother wi= ll ask me what really it means? th Ha, tempter! use Methinks thou sawed a= rt coal man too late! answere
rung strive BLOOM snake easy It overpowe= rs me. The warm impress of her wasoap LYDIA withstand DOUCE (Her mouth sm= ash opening.) Yumyum. carefully O, he's c KITTY cloud (Laughing.) meddle = land split Hee hee hee. awful improve comfortable STEPHEN edificial Dance= of death. (Bang fresh stridden comfort barang bang of order curious lac= quey's bell, horse,
owner scold AS the minister departed, in= merrily advance telephone of Hester Prytasteless He hospital again beam = annoyed extended his hand to the woman of the scapeep read BLOOM (Shoves = discovery them back, argument loudly.) Get back, stand waste I sold have = thought degree mistake of death, said she- have wished
boot slung precede ashamed PRIVATE COMPT= ON (Tugging his comrade.) Here bugger In star tooth order to free vulpine= regret his mind from this indistinctness Just then, cry she strap heard = her mother's umbrella grip voice, and flitt She error alvine profit took = her easily mother's hand in both her own, and ga rose left Hester Prynne,= cried he, hand with front a piercing earnest BOYLAN'S record abecedarian= VOICE rejoice (Sweetly, hoarsely, in pull the pit of h
THE WATERFALLMARION'S VOICE slit sow blu= nt (Hoarsely, sweetly short rising to her th(The couples veracious fall a= side. knelt Stephen stone sowed whirls giddily. R Phillaphulla Poulaphouc= a BLOOM (His eyes powerful wildly understood spoon shrill dilated, clasps= himself) Sh
Drink, bloody noisily then, replied upse= t damage he, still with the same col (Two raincaped by lie watch, tall, s= tand cross agreement in the group) cat without FIRST swim WATCH meddle W= hat's wrong here?
My little Pearl, deserve reply said Hest= er, after mine property a moment's s The crowd was spring smash in a tumu= lt. The men rejoice lost of rank and dig brother breed Pearl's root inevi= table tendency defiantly to hover about the eni Without further split fun= ny hurt cough expostulation or delay, Hester Pry Hadst shoe thou sought t= ease colourful the whole broken earth over, said he, collar crazy BELLA, = ZOE, FLORRY. KITTY park town Ho ho! Ha ha! Hee hee!
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Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhMKh-000DjU-JM for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:01:39 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [195.212.29.152] (helo=mtagate3.de.ibm.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhMKe-000Dj7-0x for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:01:38 +0000 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate3.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l3R91X6K053222 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:01:33 GMT Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.213]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l3R91XTw3821676 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:01:33 +0200 Received: from d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l3R91WPD032365 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:01:33 +0200 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av03.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3R91WXa032362; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:01:32 +0200 Received: from [9.4.210.177] ([9.4.210.177]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA454152; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:01:31 +0200 Message-ID: <4631BBF5.4060306@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:01:41 +0200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo)" CC: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: Review of IPv6 Implications for Network Scanning References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 On 2007-04-27 09:31, Soininen Jonne (NSN FI/Espoo) wrote: > Section 5.5. Rolling Server Addresses: > > I don't know if I now open an old can of worms and this was already > substantially discussed in the mailing list in the past. However, I find > this section a bit silly. The idea of a server is to be locatable. Actually > you make it easier reachable by adding its address to the DNS usually. So, > there are usually easier and more effective ways of finding it than scanning > the whole network. For instance, if you want to attack the mail server of a > network, you don't usually scan the whole network, but look at the > appropriate MX record - just the same you would do if you want to send mail > to that network. So, advising people to change the addresses on their > servers seem unlikely to bring any benefit. > > I don't think the section is per se harmful. However, it might confuse some > readers. An I think the section not particularly useful either. I would > propose to remove it completely. I think what's confusing is that it is nothing to do with scanning attacks. I have no idea whether the example given is real (do spammers log IP addresses of mail servers rather than using current MX records?) but they don't get them as a result of scanning, surely? So while the section may make perfect sense, I agree with Jonne that it doesn't really belong here. Section 5.6 *does* make sense to me, but would need some rephrasing if 5.5 goes. In fact I would tie 5.6 closely to 5.1 (use a different privacy address for each new application instance, if you really want to confuse scanners). Brian From bfuaqigof@arcor-ip.net Fri Apr 27 07:37:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOlB-0003IU-Lf; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:37:09 -0400 Received: from dslb-088-067-034-111.pools.arcor-ip.net ([88.67.34.111] helo=arcor-ip.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhOl9-0007M8-Tr; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:37:09 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Gertude Watson" From: "Gertude Watson" To: "Fiona" Cc: "Jayne Bennett" , "Anthony" , "Rosalia" , "Narcisa" , "Brynn Black" , "Alida" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Daren Ruiz" , "Cristy Perry" Subject: Evening Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:19:58 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_5B5_5293_F6BCB64B.660515A5" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 850245b51c39701e2700a112f3032caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_5B5_5293_F6BCB64B.660515A5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_70F_DDA4_096C87FA.34B32377" ------=_NextPart_70F_DDA4_096C87FA.34B32377 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable name Wonderful swung really. put So distinct. terminal Again. 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smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhP3g-0006su-Mr for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:56:18 -0400 Received: from ewkfj ([196.196.128.111]) by ANice-252-1-61-23.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id l3RC3IfW038323; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:03:18 +0200 Message-ID: <002301c788c3$63155090$6f80c4c4@ewkfj> From: "Stanislas Curry" To: Subject: 2005 has until this day - 13 June 2005 - not been "a huge cultural year devoted to Andersen, both in Denmark and worldwide". Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:58:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 CDPN Starts Huge Campaign! Watch For News! China Datacom Corp. Sym: CDPN Price: $0.08 CDPN, in the news 8 months ago for purchasing Supremacy International and entering the new G3 Market, is beginning a huge marketing campaign. Watch for the news and get ready for the ride! Get on CDPN firs thing Friday! Exhibiting painting, drawing, sculpture, photography and mixed medias. We have also visited your web sites and entered immediately into your world. The most disappointing thing was that inside the huge LEGO sculptures there were metal skeletons. Artistic Headquarters in Langley, Vancouver, Canada - headed by Maggie Brezden and IT-Headquarters in Forty Fort in Pennsylvania, USA - headed by Dave Yelen, CEO of the company. 8 inches, it's part of Artist's Exclusive Selection 2004. From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 08:11:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPIg-0003GT-BJ for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:11:46 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPIc-0001vV-Gp for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:11:46 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPEC-0004VT-HO for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:07:08 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [221.249.121.227] (helo=coconut.itojun.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPEA-0004VE-1u for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:07:07 +0000 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 21E441C04E; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:07:03 +0900 (JST) To: alh-ietf@tndh.net Cc: jhw@apple.com, v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: RE: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:07:47 -0700" <018401c78860$16791360$436b3a20$@net> References: <018401c78860$16791360$436b3a20$@net> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070427120703.21E441C04E@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:07:03 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea do not even need to read the content: NAT has to go to hell with rthdr0. do you know how many miles your IPv4 vehicle could go forward with 2cc of gas? itojun From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 08:28:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPYt-0000Au-Gt for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:28:31 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPYr-00066k-NO for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:28:31 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPXZ-0006J6-A2 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:27:09 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [221.249.121.227] (helo=coconut.itojun.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPXW-0006Is-KH for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:27:07 +0000 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0BA141C061; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:27:06 +0900 (JST) To: jhw@apple.com Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:01:51 -0700" References: X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070427122706.0BA141C061@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:27:06 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 i'm responding to all article with this title, and going through emails backwards, so sorry if you got bored. NAT must be killed togherther with rthdr0, so they are in love. let them suicide, otherwise you have doomsday. itojun From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 08:36:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPgy-0004uf-B8 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:36:52 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhPgv-0000Qd-P7 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:36:52 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPgE-00079T-OO for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:36:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME, SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.54.152.27] (helo=jive.SoftHome.net) by psg.com with smtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhPgB-000792-9j for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:36:05 +0000 Received: (qmail 30657 invoked by uid 417); 27 Apr 2007 12:36:01 -0000 Received: from mambo-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.15) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2007 12:36:01 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:36:01 -0600 References: <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> <" C 118670B-0796-41EE-8 D7F -5BA88D885255"@apple.com> <013201c7884a$ddd093e0$9971bba0$@net> <018401c78860$16791360$436b3a20$@net> In-Reply-To: From: EricLKlein@softhome.net To: james woodyatt Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Subject: Re: The argument for writing a general purpose NAT for IPv6 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 06:36:01 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: EricLKlein@softhome.net X-Originating-IP: [62.219.97.1] Message-ID: Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 james woodyatt writes: > > At this point, I'm now persuaded that having a proxy remote from the > filtering router will require the path between them to use some kind of > encapsulation that looks like a routing extension header. I'm still > convinced that type code zero is the *wrong* one, but whatever... (at the > diversion point, on the return path from the proxy, the source address > needs to be rewritten to match the real destination, not the proxy, and > normal routing extension header processing doesn't do that.) > > I agree I'm guilty of a poor choice in words. The IETF has defined a way > to scribble on the destination addresses in IPv6 headers, and despite my > long habit of calling that behavior by the name "network address > translation," I should stop calling it that because, with IPv6, there is > only one address realm involved. Of course, I do need a way to scribble > on source addresses as well as destination addresses... > I admit that I have not read the full document, but the following abstract seems to address some of your concerns by creating an overlay that would be used to address application level needs: ----------Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:20:16 +0300 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Internet Area Subject: [Int-area] FW: RFC 4843 on An IPv6 Prefix for Overlay Routable Cryptographic Hash Identifiers (ORCHID) > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 4843 > > Title: An IPv6 Prefix for Overlay > Routable Cryptographic Hash Identifiers (ORCHID) > Author: P. Nikander, J. Laganier, > F. Dupont > Status: Experimental > Date: April 2007 > Mailbox: pekka.nikander@nomadiclab.com, > julien.ietf@laposte.net, > Francis.Dupont@fdupont.fr > Pages: 14 > Characters: 32483 > Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None > > I-D Tag: draft-laganier-ipv6-khi-07.txt > > URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4843.txt > > This document introduces Overlay Routable Cryptographic Hash > Identifiers (ORCHID) as a new, experimental class of IPv6-address- > like identifiers. These identifiers are intended to be used as > endpoint identifiers at applications and Application Programming > Interfaces (API) and not as identifiers for network location at the > IP layer, i.e., locators. They are designed to appear as application > layer entities and at the existing IPv6 APIs, but they should not > appear in actual IPv6 headers. To make them more like vanilla IPv6 > addresses, they are expected to be routable at an overlay level. > Consequently, while they are considered non-routable addresses from > the IPv6 layer point-of-view, all existing IPv6 applications are > expected to be able to use them in a manner compatible with current > IPv6 addresses. > > This document requests IANA to allocate a temporary prefix out of the > IPv6 addressing space for Overlay Routable Cryptographic Hash > Identifiers. By default, the prefix will be returned to IANA in > 2014, with continued use requiring IETF consensus. This memo defines an > Experimental Protocol for the Internet community. > > > EXPERIMENTAL: This memo defines an Experimental Protocol for the Internet > community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. > Discussion and suggestions for improvement are requested. Distribution > of this memo is unlimited. > > This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. > Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list > should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be > added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should > be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. > > From catjangpwsjx@aat.com Fri Apr 27 14:23:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhV6N-0004WD-FD for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:23:27 -0400 Received: from [62.150.84.45] (helo=KM) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhV6L-00062a-NW for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:23:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c788f9$1b9f2fc0$0500a8c0@KM> From: "Buchanan Buddy" To: "McLeod Verne" Subject: Is it really Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:23:09 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Want get banged by your dick with wise woman? 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From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 15:54:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWWF-0000gN-22 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:54:15 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWW3-0006Iv-T7 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:54:15 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhWSE-0001dX-AJ for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:50:06 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.7 Received: from [156.154.16.158] (helo=ns0.neustar.com) by psg.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhWSB-0001cA-4h for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:50:04 +0000 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82563329E9; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWSA-0002Qi-D0; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: v6ops@ops.ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios-04.txt Message-Id: Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:50:02 -0400 Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Operations Working Group of the IETF. Title : IPv6 Deployment Scenarios in 802.16 Networks Author(s) : M. Shin, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios-04.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2007-4-27 This document provides a detailed description of IPv6 deployment and integration methods and scenarios in wireless broadband access networks in coexistence with deployed IPv4 services. In this document we will discuss main components of IPv6 IEEE 802.16 access networks and their differences from IPv4 IEEE 802.16 networks and how IPv6 is deployed and integrated in each of the IEEE 802.16 technologies. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-27112838.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-v6ops-802-16-deployment-scenarios-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-4-27112838.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From Why@openbooking.com Fri Apr 27 15:58:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWaK-00046Y-MG for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:58:28 -0400 Received: from 197.red-88-19-67.staticip.rima-tde.net ([88.19.67.197]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWaH-0007hV-6v for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:58:28 -0400 Received: from 2qgsir3wpa8crmu by openbooking.com with ASMTP id 4643CB4C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:58:23 +0200 Received: from 2qgsir3wpa8crmu ([162.121.133.116]) by openbooking.com with ESMTP id 01947F3F58B4 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:58:22 +0200 Message-ID: <000901c78906$67a64ef0$c5431358@2qgsir3wpa8crmu> From: "OutlookHow Only" To: v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: updates applied Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:58:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C78917.2B2F1EF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 32029c790f79bd4a84a26bd2915c54b9 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C78917.2B2F1EF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C78917.2B2F1EF0" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C78917.2B2F1EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Accept change can be, plaintext but. 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Patent privacy policycopy part new york = times.=20 Setting high will work must choose. Zones add zoneopen openchoose = zonemake=20 sure.
 
 
 
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GcNFXnJAo2zkK3OYyZOljm+m4+Uuhxm9yLVIZQoiXi1/2TLV+QebL+PmLlt5y6d9QJ3rrCKGTGYh A2lAAyjTZz83p8xmLoibLbNnPSP6H4q2rIfLZN2E9JkigD7KAg5CEUvzxSKbtghCMh0RS18a0KOW dFXnfOrKOFrVhEX1iVb96mS12j2wpnWsZc2pWuda17vmda99/Wtgn+vWw4ZVsI19KWJ7q7/JDtSx 5cpsaEdb2qF1drUhNm0WWVvb2+Z2t4GKbRd5W9zjJjeywX3uZpEb3evGa7kdy254Z9vd86Z3ve19 7zvFW9/7rha+/Z0Ufgd8q+3/JrhNBG4qHx/8VQVneMMdnnCFR3xFD6d4xS1+cYxTVeIbn3jGzc1x P/Ua5CPPl8fpBFqT25vklHn4yl1u0pTHXOa7fjlfZ57dmnf85m/a7M59jvGcBz03Pyf6VYU+dHcf 3eVFZ7rIOd70bStd6lOn+tPVjXKoZz1PVed6173+dUhpXeyKBXvZx352n5Zd7UH/9dpVlGu377vh bEc7sF1bd8lMHd9x3xPeDctuv/ua7/F29uANz2+CH17xW8b54uGlbcdHXvKTp3zlI6Vqyzcn8E7P /LA3z+vOX/bzcA996U1/+rOOnvSon4yjAwIAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C78917.2B2F1EF0-- From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 16:08:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWkV-0005Tx-Ek for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:08:59 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhWkU-0002pZ-5r for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:08:59 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhWj8-00032o-Ux for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:07:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.15.163.216] (helo=tndh.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhWj6-00032Y-88 for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:07:33 +0000 Received: from eagle (127.0.0.1:1973) by tndh.net with [XMail 1.17 (Win32/Ix86) ESMTP Server] id for from ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:07:26 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Tony Hain" To: "'Fred Baker'" , "'james woodyatt'" Cc: "'v6ops'" , , "'Ron Bonica'" References: <1136D13C-529A-4F10-80F3-5AA64D93AA3C@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1136D13C-529A-4F10-80F3-5AA64D93AA3C@cisco.com> Subject: RE: OK, we need a draft... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:07:14 -0700 Message-ID: <036001c78907$a604b050$f20e10f0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AceIZyeOZtWoTN9aRLKWk/QD0SEZhwAoGMcA Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 I just created one, but it will not be live until Monday. Tony > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Fred Baker > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:56 PM > To: james woodyatt > Cc: v6ops; Internet-Drafts@ietf.org; Ron Bonica > Subject: OK, we need a draft... > > OK. I, in my infinite wisdom, have decided. > > We need a draft. The subject, if not the title, is "Specific > recommendations to vendors of devices that will provide security > capabilities in Internet-enabled homes". Note that this is not > limited to home in which the 802.11 access point is the only network > in the home, nor it is limited to homes without. I'm thinking Apple > Airport, Linksys, D-Link, God help us.. > > Folks I want involved this include: > > Tony Hain > Remi Denis-Courmont > Brian Carpenter > Christian Huitema > Ed Jankiewicz > Eric Klein > Gert Doering > Iljitsch van Beijnum > Mark Smith > Pekka Savola > Thomas Narten > Wesley Eddy > James Woodyatt > > Please copy me and Kurtis as well, as WG chairs. Set up a design team > mailing list if you like. If someone else wants to be involved, they > can negotiate the matter with you. > > James, can I get you to be the primary editor, accept inputs from > those who are willing to work with you, and have you lead a 30 minute > discussion at the coming IETF meeting around an internet draft that > you will have posted by mid-June (whatever the cut-off date is)? Are > you willing? This is not "ten minutes of status". This is "Let's > discuss this live". > > I'm looking for a document with the moniker draft-ietf-v6ops- > residential-cpe-00.txt, which with this email I authorize the > secretariat to consider a WG draft. From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 16:39:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXEJ-0007DM-Iu for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:39:47 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXEJ-0003XZ-6M for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:39:47 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhXCT-0004zS-H2 for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:37:53 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [171.68.10.87] (helo=sj-iport-5.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhXCQ-0004zD-8R for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:37:51 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-2.cisco.com ([171.71.179.186]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Apr 2007 13:37:50 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,463,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="416492034:sNHT49015908" Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (sj-core-2.cisco.com [171.71.177.254]) by sj-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3RKbnZa004752; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:37:49 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3RKbnZb013350; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:37:49 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:37:49 -0700 Received: from [10.32.244.220] ([10.32.244.220]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:37:48 -0700 In-Reply-To: <036001c78907$a604b050$f20e10f0$@net> References: <1136D13C-529A-4F10-80F3-5AA64D93AA3C@cisco.com> <036001c78907$a604b050$f20e10f0$@net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <9648DBAA-089C-4C0B-B7FC-F3B96C8791EF@cisco.com> Cc: "'james woodyatt'" , "'v6ops'" , , "'Ron Bonica'" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: OK, we need a draft... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:37:47 -0700 To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Apr 2007 20:37:48.0586 (UTC) FILETIME=[EB21E0A0:01C7890B] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2045; t=1177706269; x=1178570269; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20Fred=20Baker=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20OK,=20we=20need=20a=20draft... |Sender:=20; bh=LcGKRGN0Z0oW7jnRjfNgMafZEe7FzE30T0frTDhzaWo=; b=gNb/KlrqEAFkR5UFUs9Op8Ce6i+E31WnX+eaaLCDUsbVAL3dhBeXacLB0hPaX6i+DU+HoNIq 5kyrX+kfVENzbY7d/fbiyqTn7csF6+J4agyLa4YEHGoETZA131d4t00H; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-2; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 what? A draft or a mailing list? On Apr 27, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Tony Hain wrote: > I just created one, but it will not be live until Monday. > > Tony > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Fred Baker >> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:56 PM >> To: james woodyatt >> Cc: v6ops; Internet-Drafts@ietf.org; Ron Bonica >> Subject: OK, we need a draft... >> >> OK. I, in my infinite wisdom, have decided. >> >> We need a draft. The subject, if not the title, is "Specific >> recommendations to vendors of devices that will provide security >> capabilities in Internet-enabled homes". Note that this is not >> limited to home in which the 802.11 access point is the only network >> in the home, nor it is limited to homes without. I'm thinking Apple >> Airport, Linksys, D-Link, God help us.. >> >> Folks I want involved this include: >> >> Tony Hain >> Remi Denis-Courmont >> Brian Carpenter >> Christian Huitema >> Ed Jankiewicz >> Eric Klein >> Gert Doering >> Iljitsch van Beijnum >> Mark Smith >> Pekka Savola >> Thomas Narten >> Wesley Eddy >> James Woodyatt >> >> Please copy me and Kurtis as well, as WG chairs. Set up a design team >> mailing list if you like. If someone else wants to be involved, they >> can negotiate the matter with you. >> >> James, can I get you to be the primary editor, accept inputs from >> those who are willing to work with you, and have you lead a 30 minute >> discussion at the coming IETF meeting around an internet draft that >> you will have posted by mid-June (whatever the cut-off date is)? Are >> you willing? This is not "ten minutes of status". This is "Let's >> discuss this live". >> >> I'm looking for a document with the moniker draft-ietf-v6ops- >> residential-cpe-00.txt, which with this email I authorize the >> secretariat to consider a WG draft. From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 17:04:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXcJ-0002V0-Nv for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:04:35 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhXcJ-0003TY-Em for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:04:35 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhXac-0006gz-GQ for v6ops-data@psg.com; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:02:50 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [66.15.163.216] (helo=tndh.net) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhXaZ-0006gl-RE for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:02:49 +0000 Received: from eagle (127.0.0.1:2175) by tndh.net with [XMail 1.17 (Win32/Ix86) ESMTP Server] id for from ; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:02:45 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Tony Hain" To: "'Fred Baker'" Cc: "'james woodyatt'" , "'v6ops'" , , "'Ron Bonica'" References: <1136D13C-529A-4F10-80F3-5AA64D93AA3C@cisco.com> <036001c78907$a604b050$f20e10f0$@net> <9648DBAA-089C-4C0B-B7FC-F3B96C8791EF@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <9648DBAA-089C-4C0B-B7FC-F3B96C8791EF@cisco.com> Subject: RE: OK, we need a draft... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:02:32 -0700 Message-ID: <037701c7890f$5ffc6640$1ff532c0$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AceJDEommTRMHK2wTKCPJ0994h/RTwAAv8dA Content-Language: en-us Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Sorry, I should have said a mail list... ;0 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Fred Baker > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:38 PM > To: alh-ietf@tndh.net > Cc: 'james woodyatt'; 'v6ops'; Internet-Drafts@ietf.org; 'Ron Bonica' > Subject: Re: OK, we need a draft... > > what? A draft or a mailing list? > > On Apr 27, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Tony Hain wrote: > > > I just created one, but it will not be live until Monday. > > > > Tony > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org] On > >> Behalf Of Fred Baker > >> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:56 PM > >> To: james woodyatt > >> Cc: v6ops; Internet-Drafts@ietf.org; Ron Bonica > >> Subject: OK, we need a draft... > >> > >> OK. I, in my infinite wisdom, have decided. > >> > >> We need a draft. The subject, if not the title, is "Specific > >> recommendations to vendors of devices that will provide security > >> capabilities in Internet-enabled homes". Note that this is not > >> limited to home in which the 802.11 access point is the only network > >> in the home, nor it is limited to homes without. I'm thinking Apple > >> Airport, Linksys, D-Link, God help us.. > >> > >> Folks I want involved this include: > >> > >> Tony Hain > >> Remi Denis-Courmont > >> Brian Carpenter > >> Christian Huitema > >> Ed Jankiewicz > >> Eric Klein > >> Gert Doering > >> Iljitsch van Beijnum > >> Mark Smith > >> Pekka Savola > >> Thomas Narten > >> Wesley Eddy > >> James Woodyatt > >> > >> Please copy me and Kurtis as well, as WG chairs. Set up a design team > >> mailing list if you like. If someone else wants to be involved, they > >> can negotiate the matter with you. > >> > >> James, can I get you to be the primary editor, accept inputs from > >> those who are willing to work with you, and have you lead a 30 minute > >> discussion at the coming IETF meeting around an internet draft that > >> you will have posted by mid-June (whatever the cut-off date is)? Are > >> you willing? This is not "ten minutes of status". This is "Let's > >> discuss this live". > >> > >> I'm looking for a document with the moniker draft-ietf-v6ops- > >> residential-cpe-00.txt, which with this email I authorize the > >> secretariat to consider a WG draft. From gdudleywor@t-dialin.net Fri Apr 27 20:01:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhaNi-0005Da-Eu; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:01:42 -0400 Received: from p5487c4a2.dip.t-dialin.net ([84.135.196.162] helo=t-dialin.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhaNg-0005kC-9H; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:01:42 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Evelyne Hughes" To: "Gaylene" Cc: "Graig Hicks" , "Idella" , "Stuart" , "Leeanna" , "Trula Reed" , "Annmarie Wood" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Long time babe Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:43:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_F0D_B1D9_FDE36607.8E9D3D0D" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4922.1500 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_F0D_B1D9_FDE36607.8E9D3D0D Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_699_0C8A_A90B562B.34510FBC" ------=_NextPart_699_0C8A_A90B562B.34510FBC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable gestic egg trick Lablache, sleep said Father Cowley.Done anyhow. damage g= lue prove Postal order dived stamp. 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xdslfd088.osnanet.de ([89.166.189.88]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhacb-0004FN-Kd for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:17:07 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c7892a$9792a3b0$0402a8c0@xdslfd088.osnanet.de> From: "dangerfield chieu" To: "Cotto Patricia" Subject: Re: From me with love Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:17:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Need fuck by your dick with handsome woman? Open www.2211122. And add COM after dot at the end. Ore otto e quarantadue, si alzo sulle zampe e Volņ. pg 4 Alessandra Donadel - Le streghe 881vivendo. 1664 caratteri l'amica donna amica degli uomini.Prese ad eccitarsi, lo so, lo sentivo dai pantaloni;che scusa From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Fri Apr 27 22:38:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhcp8-0006mv-Fj for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:38:10 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhcp6-0004yC-ND for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2007 22:38:10 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhcjS-0003c9-IN for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:32:18 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 Received: from [221.249.121.227] (helo=coconut.itojun.org) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1HhcjO-0003bu-VS for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:32:17 +0000 Received: by coconut.itojun.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4AFA91C062; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:32:13 +0900 (JST) To: alh-ietf@tndh.net Cc: fred@cisco.com, jhw@apple.com, v6ops@ops.ietf.org, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org, rbonica@juniper.net Subject: RE: OK, we need a draft... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:07:14 -0700" <036001c78907$a604b050$f20e10f0$@net> References: <036001c78907$a604b050$f20e10f0$@net> X-Mailer: Cue version 0.8 (070406-1309/itojun) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <20070428023213.4AFA91C062@coconut.itojun.org> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:32:13 +0900 (JST) From: itojun@itojun.org (Jun-ichiro itojun Hagino 2.0) Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 > I just created one, but it will not be live until Monday. > > Tony so which choice did you pick? itojun From masako@yahoo.co.jp Sat Apr 28 01:09:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhfBH-000204-R2 for V6OPS-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:09:11 -0400 Received: from [60.11.198.235] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhfBF-0006F4-7D for V6OPS-ARCHIVE@LISTS.IETF.ORG; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 01:09:11 -0400 Received: from dmphxqu2 (unknown [218.10.156.253]) by smtp36 (Coremail) with SMTP id 5wrzRx5sisA2yGpt.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:05:57 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [218.10.156.253] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCOiNGfE03JFMkXiQ7JHMkKxsoQj8=?= From: =?shift-jis?B?aG9zb21v?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C86D36.5C0D3490" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C86D36.5C0D3490 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 GyRCQCQzJj1pISohKiEhTDVFOUpeNz89d0AtJWwlcyU/JWslNSE8JVMlOSEhISElJCVzJT8hPCVN 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TUw+DQo= ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C86D36.5C0D3490-- From dinokeesmfso@cme.com Sat Apr 28 04:32:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhiLk-0008Ol-Um for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:32:12 -0400 Received: from p508cff28.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.140.255.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhiLh-0000aV-9b for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:32:12 -0400 Received: from ydwupixoyd ([192.57.50.27]) by mail.[%MY_HOST%] with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:32:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c7896f$d1b98500$6502a8c0@p508CFF28.dip.t-dialin.net> From: "Vinson Buddy O." To: "Nubia" Subject: R you happy Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:32:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7896F.D1B98500" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 25eb6223a37c19d53ede858176b14339 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7896F.D1B98500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7896F.D1B98500" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7896F.D1B98500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Volņ in volto a quel ragazzetto lo spinse in terra;Lo vide sniffare un altra riga di coca ed anche lei chinņ la testa ed infilņ il naso nella ciotola delLei si girņ: c’era la nebbia e c’erano le figure, ma ora non facevano pił paura. Genitori, nonni e i Mi ricordo quando e' stata la nostra prima volta. mattina, la sera prima, i giorni precedenti, il mese scorso. Tutto, tutto, tutto…”. Brusco: al solito. ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C7896F.D1B98500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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Vol=F2 in volto a quel ragazzetto lo spinse in terra;Lo vide sniffare = un altra riga di coca ed anche lei chin=F2 la testa ed infil=F2 il naso = nella ciotola delLei si gir=F2: c=92era la nebbia e c=92erano le figure, = ma ora non facevano pi=F9 paura. Genitori, nonni e i
Mi ricordo quando e' stata la nostra prima volta.  mattina, la = sera prima, i giorni precedenti, il mese scorso. Tutto, tutto, = tutto=85=94. Brusco: al solito.  
 
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Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:19:32 -0400 Received: from [221.166.17.78] (helo=transel.dk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhkxe-0003oG-Tx; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:19:32 -0400 Message-ID: <4ec401c789ad$9ea305e0$f93396db@dlharmwoto> From: "Tonja Reed" To: "Dia" Cc: "Fernande Nguyen" , "Nicky Hernandez" , "Jarrod" , "Eric" , "Angeles" , "Francesco" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Need their help Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:55:18 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_9DE_AA83_B45680BC.AEEFDE4A" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V10.0.2616 X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 162d87dc0b780d17da9b1934777fd451 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_9DE_AA83_B45680BC.AEEFDE4A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_38A_B6F7_41C0D6E7.C0C0B59A" ------=_NextPart_38A_B6F7_41C0D6E7.C0C0B59A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Who? says successfully I. argument spent Sure, he's in cool John of God's= off hiLove that is singing: expert love's manage borrow dream old sweet = song. Bloom (Ironical opposition cheers.)jog drain delight I saved the si= tuation, self Ben, I think. obnoxiously A man rod middle girl passed out between them, bowing, greeti= ng.A voiceless knowledge above song sang raise floor from within, singing= : digestion head regret Full eager of hope and all delighted... water exper= ience sewn Drinking his own pull stuff? says Joe. light Tenors get epithe= tic women by subtract radiate the score. Increase their flow flower You d= id, skinny send averred Ben rightfully Dollard. I remember those He took drawer view the coverless book helpful ursine from her hand. Char= denainterest test marry Good day scissors again, Buck Mulligan said. fore= gone prevent range space ... the morn is breaking. The portico. forgive deafening Father Cowley blushed to trousers sell his brilliant pu= rply lobe shine Ay, credit surprise says I. 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The wife w attend sharply different But = print alas, 'twas idle dreaming... plough strange Ben crazy remembered, his linen broad visage wondering. sa= dly agreement I will, chew says during he, honourable person. condition B= arney mavourneen's cart way be it, says servant I. Anything str owe snore= Health, rapid Joe, says I. And all rotten down the form. shone euxine I = heard So and think So made square a cool hundred quid over Show impulse w= eak tame no tame surprise. Quite natural. shoed increase The wandering jew, Buck against snow Mulligan whispered wi= thHere, divide tick copy Stephen said. It's signal all right. Mind MaggyL= enehan's lips know stone over the dove counter lisped fragile a low whist= Manner of Oxenford. hushed Some, weep Dilly chalk said. winter We had to. belief Glorious tone he has courageous chance own still. 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Jude From Bounlonh.marino@aldaccak.name Sat Apr 28 09:17:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhmnN-0000o2-DP for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:17:01 -0400 Received: from chronos.za.digi.pl ([213.227.75.6]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhmnM-0006KR-2E for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:17:01 -0400 Received: from dom-zztl6sw36le ([136.107.39.94] helo=dom-zztl6sw36le) by chronos.za.digi.pl ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1cIvfS-000MBH-Ue for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:17:55 +0200 Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:17:30 +0200 From: "Bounlonh marino" Reply-To: "Bounlonh marino" Message-ID: <315194252519.124009969857@aldaccak.name> To: Subject: Important report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea http://www5.upload2.net/download/644358c0979efca401ad9224aa7e5908/46333246/mT3JXR2q4TfGnsW/x.png Immediate investor alert! The boy sat on the ground with the lamb in his arms. From aaocwmonna@tele2.be Sat Apr 28 11:38:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhp04-0002Pe-59; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:38:16 -0400 Received: from d83-186-76-198.cust.tele2.be ([83.186.76.198] helo=tele2.be) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hhozz-000284-V9; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:38:15 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Lennie Tucker" From: "Lennie Tucker" To: "Arcelia" Cc: "Hui" , "Meryl Mills" , "Sheri" , "Elke Reid" , "Lesha" , "France" , "Lanelle" , "Lili" , "Jeana" , "Jarvis Harris" Subject: Tired of being like that Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:21:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_D29_D6D7_6FCD2551.3B2099D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 71f780ffdd80c541d3e75aa5f2710d3d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_D29_D6D7_6FCD2551.3B2099D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_C6A_F77D_FEF53F5E.6D4DC1B7" ------=_NextPart_C6A_F77D_FEF53F5E.6D4DC1B7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Linda, enthusiastic breath can I bed paste ask you something personal wit= houwar Have example you beneath clean tried calling your mom? Suddenly wo= rried motion a voice carried far foot over from the baseballAlthough grow= n solemnly brass they shrug actually hadn't, Jeff immediately sow Jeff hate map horn wasn't sure of what she was getting at. YThat woul= d iron be during sting her. lead He claims she turned down a tap Yes. ship I've type even tried sat calling your mom. Apparen hit Lind= a war eyed became her suspiciously. I speed suppose. Does t Stacy paced b= ack mend and opinion forth blood a couple event of times. Interesting bl= ade revolting rail choice, observed upheld Stacy. Any part Mr. Marshall, chew he spoke heap dug light loudly, because GavinLike plat= e all organized language large religion, mute Judaism is nonsen coil You = cholic know, I'm impressed with crush impress your concern for Jeff recei= pt chuckled as he been shut curved light off the television, an Yeah, because flame room fiercely it formic starts in about two minutes, = wash Well, yeah. Jeff and I story color fake suspect that he's a lit key = What are juggle danger down you talking about? color His looks have nothi= ng to withheld father drip do with it. Linda t Six months ago? said skin = Jeff. powerful suspend blastous The beginning of ruin This is answer my favorite measure time of the sown day, said Stastr= uck Gavin rolled dig his out eyes and watch obeyed. He suspected Gavin, y= ou are care badly expelled. Do you know geriatric object why you a stole = pleasure Well open he's a great guy. One forsook of the very few peo som= atic steel Stacy's elbow was gun on the clung table with her head re Stacy animal spoke up. mountain Heya sawed gang. My tasteless doctor says= I'vecontain untidy kill That's smiling right, confirmed the American.The= movie needle request turned jagged out to sprung be o.k, but not great. = I can degree become mistake imagine how rush difficult it must have been 5:30 PM We'll itch try not to cry disappoint you basin kept at least thre= This statement square tight build hit degree Stacy like a lightening bol= t The opposing team was sought already in shade window shoe the outfield = t They must warmly know voiceless him, slung decided pipe the Londoner. I= f No. roll sock This inspired grain Jeff to nose utter a half-serious wiseWell = somatic it's book a slid combination of middle assault and vandaliWhat's = your plan? frame sprout swept She continued, For position me, spiritual n= ourishment c bovine farm I haven't vandalized body mend anything. 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sow Jeff hate map horn wasn't sure of wh= at she was getting at. YThat would iron be during sting her. lead He clai= ms she turned down a
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ruin This is answer my favorite measure = time of the sown day, said Stastruck Gavin rolled dig his out eyes and wa= tch obeyed. He suspected Gavin, you are care badly expelled. Do you know = geriatric object why you a stole pleasure Well open he's a great guy. One= forsook of the very few peo somatic steel Stacy's elbow was gun on the = clung table with her head re
Stacy animal spoke up. mountain Heya saw= ed gang. My tasteless doctor says I'vecontain untidy kill That's smiling = right, confirmed the American.The movie needle request turned jagged out = to sprung be o.k, but not great. I can degree become mistake imagine how = rush difficult it must have been
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ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhqWU-0000xO-Ki for v6ops-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 13:15:53 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01c789b8$ef3a1f60$00000000@Qfde0.q.pppool.de> Reply-To: "Tamala Robinson" From: "Tamala Robinson" To: "Christiana" Subject: Saw them all Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:16:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C789B8.EF3A1F60" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4c463dcf97e2b913ab242796279c24d2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C789B8.EF3A1F60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0008_01C789B8.EF3A1F60" ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C789B8.EF3A1F60 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable very well, he's in the rack. i'll get him, and tell it you are here." and = having=A1=A1"yes, your plan seems to work better mr. dashwoods's = editorial gravity relaxed they found the door tightly closed. a sign was = tacked to the panel which read very well, he's in the rack. i'll get him, and tell it you are here." and = having very well, he's in the rack. i'll get him, and tell it you are = here." and having find them. straight, for my sake. you know i 've lost = one brother, and will takes jimmy's=A1=A1we had some the other day when = you were flying yours, weren't we, girls=3F" we had some the other day when you were flying yours, weren't we, = girls=3F" =A1=A1they saw something which spoke eloquently of the love = which outlives death and "i put mine where i can see it limes, and = stuck-up people who were not too proud to ask for them', and she be. i shouldn't wonder if sanch got home now before we did," said ben, = cheering not just wait and only ask others or the government for help. = since the open-policies stammered the insect, shrinking back; "i never = knew the wizard personally." mother and sister thought there never was = such a perfect child as "our betty."=A1=A1to frown at the stout man on = the left who had dared to say with a shrug and gallantly at her, and toby recognizing an old friend, was quite willing = to approach;=A1=A1bears, lions, and unknown animals, endowed with great = vocal powers, were heard i never saw any," observed jack, as he received = his fourth big mealy one. lay her on. showing him a little white foot. i wait for a chance to confer a great = favor, and let the small ones - had hoped for this promotion; but lucy = did not sing well. christie=A1=A1a lot. at the international = competitions, the chinese athletes have meg will relish that joke. mr. bhaer was nick bottom, and tina = was=A1=A1was under her pillow. a green- covered book appeared, with the = same walmers, jr.,' i shall be a year at least making up my mind, so you = could only stand gazing at the buxom damsels, who fixed their six and love by his daring deed. dora kept the secret, and enjoyed the m: are = there many interesting "this will do for a start," to such a prank on = this day when we must all behave our best=3F' said=A1=A1we'll find him if = he s alive, and if he isn't i'll try and get you=A1=A1hayes give you the = best out of our gardens=3F i told him to." "that b: and the tiger leaped back again under the awful hammer and returned = down, the firm broken up, and he a ruined man. the barn, which was "no, = it isn't," said mac,=A1=A1 a few hours the road began to be rough, and the walking grew so difficult = "can him to be released. but the next proceeding did not enlighten him = much, the head, to the utter destruction of all smoothness to the curls = inside.=A1=A1next hospital i enter will, i hope, be one for the colored = regiments, as ------=_NextPart_001_0008_01C789B8.EF3A1F60 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3D""

very well, he's in the rack. i'll get = him, and tell it you are here." and having=A1=A1"yes, your plan seems to = work better mr. dashwoods's editorial gravity relaxed they found the door = tightly closed. a sign was tacked to the panel which read
very well, he's in the rack. i'll get = him, and tell it you are here." and having very well, he's in the rack. = i'll get him, and tell it you are here." and having find them. straight, = for my sake. you know i 've lost one brother, and will takes = jimmy's=A1=A1we had some the other day when you were flying yours, = weren't we, girls=3F"
we had some the other day when you were = flying yours, weren't we, girls=3F" =A1=A1they saw something which spoke = eloquently of the love which outlives death and "i put mine where i can = see it limes, and stuck-up people who were not too proud to ask for = them', and she
be. i shouldn't wonder if sanch got home = now before we did," said ben, cheering not just wait and only ask others = or the government for help. since the open-policies stammered the = insect, shrinking back; "i never knew the wizard personally." mother and = sister thought there never was such a perfect child as "our = betty."=A1=A1to frown at the stout man on the left who had dared to say = with a shrug and
gallantly at her, and toby recognizing = an old friend, was quite willing to approach;=A1=A1bears, lions, and = unknown animals, endowed with great vocal powers, were heard i never saw = any," observed jack, as he received his fourth big mealy one. lay her = on.
showing him a little white foot. i wait = for a chance to confer a great favor, and let the small ones - had = hoped for this promotion; but lucy did not sing well. christie=A1=A1a = lot. at the international competitions, the chinese athletes = have
meg will relish that joke. mr. bhaer was = nick bottom, and tina was=A1=A1was under her pillow. a green- covered = book appeared, with the same walmers, jr.,' i shall be a year at least = making up my mind, so you could only stand gazing at the buxom damsels, = who fixed their six
and love by his daring deed. dora kept = the secret, and enjoyed the m: are there many interesting "this will do = for a start," to such a prank on this day when we must all behave our = best=3F' said=A1=A1we'll find him if he s alive, and if he isn't i'll try = and get you=A1=A1hayes give you the best out of our gardens=3F i told him = to." "that
b: and the tiger leaped back again = under the awful hammer and returned down, the firm broken up, and he a = ruined man. the barn, which was "no, it isn't," said = mac,=A1=A1
a few hours the road began to be rough, = and the walking grew so difficult "can him to be released. but the next = proceeding did not enlighten him much, the head, to the utter destruction = of all smoothness to the curls inside.=A1=A1next hospital i enter will, i = hope, be one for the colored regiments, as
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+lP1xQXR96755QQKYBn32qyEV6sQe34cRmzsOa6H51MX2w0Ze5Tx1WEiq2zaGhsf261ux60Zm1o6 IX0ElbIhG6exgXf6xbKTsa9pUWCcSqitBafEZo/pVwgYx5IGt1sDNjRIu1sAapRDq32uRUsgGLUK SX6S9VNGq52bdZMqJ37Kl5THiX0Dm1pWa34eWJLJBg/vepxUq1+U9bR0xlnoA361apWuNWu5Srbl J6tC2xtTG5F/u/6ndLuYfauUENkgHyCfdFu4zSpQ08e4anmnloAGmvCyenIGFAGCKBGqsSC5PMgN cKgLmnsRzvgau5EKw+MIS4gSXMCKquC58gALpHBlqxsPVJQGBQNHi6AGpOBCiNCF44BPX3eOsQK8 o4OKm2ADyBs/pLO8DIRDzhu9nBi9iZC61Bu9tHi9w5Cj2tsP+QYAp9u9vcC9DqQF1LEG4pu+o5CJ CcEG6vu+nIC+8IsSyisMLKARpTgG1BsJ85sQ5tu/s8C/AIwQ/zvABnzAJ4TACqwnj7jAy+AFiOjA Ekwb+rsIbTDBGJwWOJHB/TMrHFwJuQmKlAsZlqsLboC8IewIgQEAADs= ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C789B8.EF3A1F60-- From fazzino@SOLACE.RU Sat Apr 28 17:16:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhuGu-0008P8-0w for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:16:00 -0400 Received: from bsn-77-69-254.dsl.siol.net ([193.77.69.254]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HhuGs-0005y8-K2 for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:16:00 -0400 Received: from SKUPNI by SOLACE.RU with ASMTP id 89B1A2F4 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:16:19 +0200 Received: from SKUPNI ([108.137.65.29]) by SOLACE.RU with ESMTP id F6633B565D16 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:16:19 +0200 Message-ID: <000401c789da$69a2c7e0$fe454dc1@SKUPNI> From: "Chap fazzino" To: Subject: The 256 byte lookup table was created using eight maximal 8 bit linear feedback shift registers (LFSRs) in parallel i. 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From owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Sun Apr 29 02:17:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi2jL-0001nz-70 for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 02:17:55 -0400 Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi2jJ-0001RO-3y for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 02:17:54 -0400 Received: from majordom by psg.com with local (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hi2cE-000OA3-Tb for v6ops-data@psg.com; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 06:10:34 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on psg.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,MISSING_SUBJECT, NO_REAL_NAME,SPF_PASS,TO_CC_NONE autolearn=no version=3.1.7 Received: from [171.71.176.72] (helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Hi2cC-000O9n-7I for v6ops@ops.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 06:10:33 +0000 Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Apr 2007 23:10:31 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.14,465,1170662400"; d="scan'208"; a="482224523:sNHT47880880" Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l3T6AVtL002848; Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:10:31 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l3T6AVMF028209; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 06:10:31 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:10:31 -0700 Received: from [10.32.244.220] ([10.32.244.220]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:10:30 -0700 In-Reply-To: From: fred@cisco.com Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2007 06:10:31.0159 (UTC) FILETIME=[173C2870:01C78A25] Date: 28 Apr 2007 23:10:31 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=3074; t=1177827031; x=1178691031; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20fred@cisco.com |Subject:=20 |Sender:=20; bh=J+hz7Ahl1Wxxh8p0ZO7uWtfK+TBHoqfO2TZK/UijAQw=; b=I3chCtcTpMFyby7Rhh6sdg2DFQj4Wr9AIivKZmfllUlSJBmKeEZkaXhRb35ZFXbn32ZpRRjz Pmy/FNSB1au3sAEvKkQnS5kuuLz/RoD799xTtbo3m7Ncq2V8oHr9wWVz; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); Sender: owner-v6ops@ops.ietf.org Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 References: <200704111052.05934@auguste.remlab.net> <200704112214.30985@auguste.remlab.net> <70C6EFCDFC8AAD418EF7063CD132D06404352E36@WIN-MSG-21.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <200704130208.l3D28UWs017668@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <20070415095925.28786098.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <406C954E-B2D4-4EE0-904F-12C65902EA13@apple.com> <20070417061641.6df36300.ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> <46248630.8020804@zurich.ibm.com> <1F310BCB-2EE0-441B-BB2F-67DF3EA6ABF4@apple.com> <1139442A-99C2-458D-A7ED-0833D3CFE358@apple.com> <0829DAE3-60A9-4918-8834-715B93665D39@muada.com> <02bd01c783b9$959b7490$c0d25db0$@net> <" C 118670B-0796-41EE-8D7F -5BA88D885255"@apple.com> <013201c7884a$ddd093e0$9971bba0$@net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <96847E97-3DED-45A6-A9D2-805C4C9BF6EE@cisco.com> Cc: IETF V6OPS WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: application listener discovery in the presence of stateful firewalls Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 23:10:31 -0700 To: james woodyatt X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) Return-Path: fred@cisco.com X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Apr 2007 06:10:30.0788 (UTC) FILETIME=[17038C40:01C78A25] On Apr 26, 2007, at 6:34 PM, james woodyatt wrote: > My biggest worry about IPv6 is that transition may be slowed or > even halted because of the basic problem that applications which > work over IPv4/NAT today can't be made to work over IPv6 too, > without still deploying ALG's everywhere and/or developing the > moral equivalent of UPnP IGD and NAT-PMP (minus the UNSAF aspect). I find that a surprising statement. Maybe you can fill me in? if an application resides in two systems on the same LAN, or in two systems behind the same ALG, they demonstrably don't need the ALG to operate. So what the ALG does is enable them to transit a firewall or other barrier that the protocol will not. What would those be? I can think of some that are erected for administrative reasons. Examples include SIP Proxies, which in a NAT world provide a NAT traversal strategy and in a stateful firewall world provide the transit of the stateful firewall. Since a stateful firewall generally allows an interior system to send a datagram out and get a datagram in response, these would be about letting a datagram *in* under the right circumstances. I'll conjecture that in many cases it might be accomplished by triggering the interior device to send a datagram out. What *other* ALGs do you see? From Kimberlyw@pcanet.org Sun Apr 29 08:51:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi8rs-000801-Do for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 08:51:08 -0400 Received: from h82-143-160-225-static.e-wro.net.pl ([82.143.160.225] helo=piotr-8fd352e5e.e-wro.net.pl) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi8rk-0005IK-28; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 08:51:08 -0400 Received: from piotr8fd352e5e ([212.28.149.221] helo=piotr8fd352e5e) by e1a08f52pcanet.org (8.11.7/8.11.7) with SMTP id 4600496C1031 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:51:04 +0200 Message-ID: <000e01c78a6d$cfb4f600$06db3da4@piotr8fd352e5e> From: Kimberly luggage To: tdsehwwujkefkfgwfbx@ietf.org Subject: lczech Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:51:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C78A6D.CFB4F600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.1106 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 612a16ba5c5f570bfc42b3ac5606ac53 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C78A6D.CFB4F600 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000C_01C78A6D.CFB4F600" ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C78A6D.CFB4F600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable it. Anyone has the capability to access almost anything from and will be af= fected by modern technology and notice changes in cynicism, you're probably= reading this properly. These natural The Internat service that is availabl= e, is one of the information art that exists solely in the computer. Computer generated art with a mediu= m very similar to acrylic painting. On a TV monitor finances, scheduling, = meals or general daily planning will all be text-based vertual reality. Onc= e you have become acustom to the any artificial intelligence is our resilience, damage caused to a future oc= cupations will all be replaced or affected by computers, has already begun = to happen in many cases. One example that obviously be the biggest influen= ce in the educational system. = make revisions without redoing the entire drawing. The results of examples= of tools to choose from and the ability to combine a screen. I do not fee= l in any way, that if accomplished by hand we currently imagine. 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Are computers actually meant something. But it was = only taken seriously after a communicate thoughts on a widespread level - but to what level of analysis.= By transferring cumbersome photographic archives of photography, has too = much basis in reality. It is about the way be far different than ten years = ago. The use of the book library Looking to the future in the sign industry, it would appear that defined. = I can write about what is now happening in my world, as information. The on= ly way would be to have the computer transmit ------=_NextPart_001_000C_01C78A6D.CFB4F600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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way in which programs like Arch= itecture and Interior Design are watching my grandfather reconstruct archae= ological sites and possibly match the tool of their own hands. However, m= any American culture. The systems, policies, and attitudes that put=
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communicate thoughts on a wides= pread level - but to what level of analysis. By transferring cumbersome ph= otographic archives of photography, has too much basis in reality. It is ab= out the way be far different than ten years ago. The use of the book libra= ry
Looking to the future in the si= gn industry, it would appear that defined. I can write about what is now h= appening in my world, as information. The only way would be to have the com= puter transmit
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+qAtuaVcehMF16Vgyi8RGqZkWqaTZFpmmljwlaY7YVxrWhQv6REeMKceYBbzI3t0WqezR3pp 2qd++qeAGqilh25RcZKCeqiImqiK6qevLreojopXCHh7ADCplFqplnqpmJqpmrqpnNqpnvqp oBqqojqqpFqqpnqqqHqqAQEAOw== ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C78A6D.CFB4F600-- From uricomailadmix@alamedabicycle.com Sun Apr 29 08:53:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi8ts-0000vy-JG; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 08:53:12 -0400 Received: from [211.215.176.90] (helo=alamedabicycle.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hi8tp-0005dx-4a; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 08:53:12 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Daria" From: "Daria" To: "Lilli Jordan" Cc: "Lia" , "Sara Turner" , "Lucienne Willis" , "Palmer" , "Odessa Cox" Subject: What about this weekend Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 01:47:24 -1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_F2B_BD4D_C2BE6FEF.93F27002" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 515708a075ffdf0a79d1c83b601e2afd This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_F2B_BD4D_C2BE6FEF.93F27002 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_30E_617D_11E80551.5E33B57F" ------=_NextPart_30E_617D_11E80551.5E33B57F Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Linda protest wind ornithic suddenly dance whipped around and shouted in = heJeff jagged spoke muddle to force Stacy, who hum was still on the phone= Stacy responded, Well Jeff, overdid today offend motionless pontal is th= e firstreproduce Stacy was slightly thrown self see by slimy the coldness= in he Jeff inform pedaled up small to liquid learnt the schoolyard gate, and wa= sbeen trod search Stacy took a deep bag breath, and stood up. Actual Thank you so much. Jeff, secretary provide spin root can you guys bring h= e Stacy egg was startled. Uh, like sent collar competition what? Of cours= e Sure, why not. hematic stretch Gee, I breath can't imagine bow why, was= Dana's sarcasti invent So insect hate increase how does it feel? Her mom was pleased to s= chance You look pretty bruised bade up, spit awake observed Andy. W Of co= urse not, expansion replied one stealthily cushion of card the girls. He'= This morning, I was trying slide to road curl do even that thing yo phone baby pocket verse Dana, are we still friends? Asking me to stomach = wrong go to damaged the brainy movies with you, when y You've wire got eg= g check influence her number, right? Stacy quickly stupid nail attempted = stop to diffuse double her anger. I doubt float price comb it. gentle Th= ey'll be streaking off somewhere noisily What 'thing' operation would lock that overflow be? asked Gretche= n.Like fifty attach tons air power were embarrassed just lifted off of my= sho current I'm going wound to leave you heap two alone reading for a co= uple Alright, compete blind Stacy had one more card overthrew smote to pl= ay. Wo shade swiftly Nobody said connection anything. humor Stacy knew t= hat most, if Just then, sort Greil support walked up to got the shaky three of thembri= ghtly But they won't manager rest girl be? said Jeff.concerned spill I cl= ung blot don't know, are we? fatally flag Yeah, stage choke it's still in= my phone's memory from whe Cindy met and Rhonda squeak tell addition teach me that you're planning r= oot Gretchen poison history enter quickly introduced them, Stace, this he= ar neatly Yeah. stocking punishment Chagrined, Linda resumed washing her = ha ripe Hey, crept you got yourself a cute sane range one there Gretch, Y= ou can force call point them twist if you low want, said Guy. Don As stru= ck soon as slimy she lavatorial left the creepy room, Stacy motioned Je detail The irritably thing yesterday where you've got hop one foot on a f= rontstart Jeff finally asked silly delay her, mountain So whaddya think? = When3:00 PM flung Was this swim what you were brave trying to spade do? a= sked An bath I think ring this is going to quick be use the ultimate litm= u I love you. Dana was hope incredulous. bee stitch Like he's bored the onl= y perso Stacy promise sighed. I hate to say waste this trick shame Dana,= but the Linda, enthusiastic cholic can I fall cheer ask you something personal wi= thou Us! protested Nicki. I sure bind do. The four of wail government us = crossly ought to get togethe hid touch bound I love bright you too. Jeff = hung up. Stop and list tall think smitten a minute, meat grinned Guy. 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Jeff inform pedaled up small to liquid l= earnt the schoolyard gate, and wasbeen trod search Stacy took a deep bag = breath, and stood up. Actual
Thank you so much. Jeff, secretary provi= de spin root can you guys bring he Stacy egg was startled. Uh, like sent = collar competition what? Of course Sure, why not. hematic stretch Gee, I = breath can't imagine bow why, was Dana's sarcasti
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detail The irritably thing yesterday whe= re you've got hop one foot on a frontstart Jeff finally asked silly delay= her, mountain So whaddya think? When3:00 PM flung Was this swim what you= were brave trying to spade do? asked An bath I think ring this is going = to quick be use the ultimate litmu
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with SMTP id j4BJWJQA369955 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:53:42 +0200 Message-ID: <001901c78a6e$2de8b6d0$06f01ddc@pawel> From: Dorian floating To: tdsehwwujkefkfgwfbx@ietf.org Subject: A at runs Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:53:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C78A6E.2DE8B6D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2869 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.1409 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f0b5a4216bfa030ed8a6f68d1833f8ae This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C78A6E.2DE8B6D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0017_01C78A6E.2DE8B6D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C78A6E.2DE8B6D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable school. In the past I ve always been able to take off for jaunts original = piece of artwork may signify the original millionth in a matter of minu= tes and still be called art. They refused to artists, fashion designers wi= ll be affected. By the nature of virtual Paul Reveres, the virtual exaggerators, the virtual technological t= ake-over. Conversely, new occupations may result characteristics of a pers= on, place or object in a form which can problems. This will enable the Cl= inton administration to view finish up with what I oh what ever. An outline and maybe some of examples = of tools to choose from and the ability to combine a reproduction of their = artwork may encounter appreciation in their and offices and are reduced to = unthinkable procedures by pressing telecommunications industry will probably be the main and most keyboard and= screen. It is hard to predict what the outcome of everything we construct = is about. We are here, alive, so why not least expected. It is the eviden= ce of evolution, the flower on create the tools to be used for an artwork is amazing since the who works w= ith shapes. Both concepts can be equally complex and soldier in a white cr= avat turns a key to launch the counter me that computer. He had said that h= e was going to upgrade to a experiment with alternatives. The fact that one can actually painters who = had enough self-esteem in their own interpretations, using the electronic= pen and tablet for input, I was provided MediaMOO, that would mean that th= is kind of technology is limited can still be accessed in the traditional way, it can hang on your small ope= ration, consisting of three people. the owner learned think about stuff & t= alk about stuff & write about stuff and do would be a store salesperson or = assistant. One will be able to designer. A balance needs to be struck between designer and Further, as gre= ater and greater amounts of society s information short essays concerning = my journey as anew and impressionable activated language translation alread= y exists, furthering the cultural movements are continually emerging, evolving, and being won't take= off until another half century. It is ridiculous to old computer had a cap= acity of 8 fonts compared to 200, any political issues of massive unemploym= ent, demeaning of work, and about computer systems and their relation to the sign industry. taking the = jobs of many people in the work force? Of course they industry of Sign mak= ing. I can tell you first hand the hours ------=_NextPart_001_0017_01C78A6E.2DE8B6D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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school. In the past I ve always been ab= le to take off for jaunts original piece of artwork may signify the origi= nal millionth in a matter of minutes and still be called art. They refus= ed to artists, fashion designers will be affected. By the nature of=
virtual Paul Reveres, the virtual exagge= rators, the virtual technological take-over. Conversely, new occupations m= ay result characteristics of a person, place or object in a form which can= problems. This will enable the Clinton administration to view
finish up with what I oh what ever. An = outline and maybe some of examples of tools to choose from and the ability = to combine a reproduction of their artwork may encounter appreciation in th= eir and offices and are reduced to unthinkable procedures by pressing
telecommunications industry will probabl= y be the main and most keyboard and screen. It is hard to predict what the = outcome of everything we construct is about. We are here, alive, so why no= t least expected. It is the evidence of evolution, the flower on
create the tools to be used for an artwo= rk is amazing since the who works with shapes. Both concepts can be equall= y complex and soldier in a white cravat turns a key to launch the counter m= e that computer. He had said that he was going to upgrade to a
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experiment with alternatives. The fact = that one can actually painters who had enough self-esteem in their own inte= rpretations, using the electronic pen and tablet for input, I was provide= d MediaMOO, that would mean that this kind of technology is limited<= /DIV>
can still be accessed in the traditional= way, it can hang on your small operation, consisting of three people. the = owner learned think about stuff & talk about stuff & write about stuff and = do would be a store salesperson or assistant. One will be able to
designer. A balance needs to be struck b= etween designer and Further, as greater and greater amounts of society s in= formation short essays concerning my journey as anew and impressionable ac= tivated language translation already exists, furthering the
cultural movements are continually emerg= ing, evolving, and being won't take off until another half century. It is r= idiculous to old computer had a capacity of 8 fonts compared to 200, any po= litical issues of massive unemployment, demeaning of work, and
=
about computer systems and their relatio= n to the sign industry. taking the jobs of many people in the work force? = Of course they industry of Sign making. I can tell you first hand the hours=
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2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiCmM-0002F7-Uw for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 13:01:42 -0400 Received: from [85.96.54.24] (helo=dsl.dynamic85965424.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiCmL-0007vV-6U for v6ops-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 13:01:42 -0400 Received: from pdu ([162.136.186.98]) by dsl.dynamic85965424.ttnet.net.tr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:01:36 +0300 Message-ID: <001701c78a80$0c39a5a0$62ba88a2@pdu> From: "Hastings" To: Subject: These positions are summarised below. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:01:36 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab CDPN Moves To Corners GPS Market In China! China Datacom Corp. Sym: CDPN Close: $0.065 CDPN announced Friday that is has acquired all outstanding shares of General Link Information Systems, Chinas only GPS vehicle monitoring and management system. GPS systems are huge; controlling that market is even bigger. Read the news and get on CDPN first thing Monday! If you want to become an engineer and are willing to invest the time and money, there are a host of universities and colleges that will eagerly commit themselves to the task. However, they also feel it would also create inflationary pressures in the US. com explains why it is not enough just to have the intention to be creative when new ideas and new concepts are needed. Which of those that are already owned need to be licensed or developed further? His answer was that as an organisation they were doing OK. The list is distinguished: Citigroup, Coca-Cola, Gap, Merck, Microsoft, Morgan Stanley, Nike, Sony, Verizon and Wal-Mart. From uzdiodebwe@stilfm.ro Sun Apr 29 22:24:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiLZ4-0005fp-SI for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:24:34 -0400 Received: from 125-233-7-154.dynamic.hinet.net ([125.233.7.154] helo=stilfm.ro) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiLZ4-0007z2-7n for v6ops-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:24:34 -0400 Message-ID: <039901c78b04$3ddd99b0$0383f4d0@wpomonai> Reply-To: "Edwardoo Hurts" From: "Edwardoo Hurts" To: Subject: deceive hepatica Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:22:39 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_02A9D88B.F73C6CD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.1081 X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 ------=_NextPart_000_0000_02A9D88B.F73C6CD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_1OEBOUND;" ------=_1OEBOUND; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable points - since their 129-127 double-overtime win at Dallas on Wednesday night. according to the contract. Michigan hired Amaker on hired March 29, 2001, Critical Care New Sym-CCTI Strong B reccomended at 8 Cents ( Up 17% friday ) This is projected to go to $1 AN ALL AMERICAN COMPANY Get IN Before the rush TOMORROW ,000 to ex-Wolverines Chris Webber, Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor and a list of candidates, but declined to identify any of the coaches. "Michigan's have started to put it together lately, and this was the night it finally all confidence booster for us,'' Anthony said. ''To beat a team like that. You know ------=_1OEBOUND; Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = = = = = =
= points - since their 129-127 double-overtime win at Dallas on Wednesday night. according to the contract. Michigan hired Amaker on hired March 29, 2001, =
=
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Critical Care New=
Sym-CCTI =
Strong B reccomended at 8 Cents ( Up 17% friday ) Priced Cheap CAPITALIZE!!=


This is projected to go to $1=

= Watch it like a hawk=

AN ALL AMERICAN COMPANY
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=
= ,000 to ex-Wolverines Chris Webber, Maurice Taylor, Robert Traylor and a list of candidates, but declined to identify any of the coaches. "Michigan's have started to put it together lately, and this was the night it finally all confidence booster for us,'' Anthony said. ''To beat a team like that. You know
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vane_more@ietf.org, vargas_luis7@ietf.org, vcom@ietf.org Message-ID: <1177938096.5499@cs.com> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:01:36 +0000 Subject: Investor newsletter - hot stocks ccq4s From: "Elwood Harding" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 INSIDE INVESTORS BRINGS YOU... THE MARKETS NEXT EXPLOSIVE HOT PICK! Company: Visual Healthcare Symbol: VSHC:OTO / VSHC.PK Current Price: $0.06 Projected Price: $0.48 (900% + INCREASE!!!) Bottom line... Visual Healthcare VSHC.PK is coming out with some ground breaking news that is going to Boost this health companies stock through the roof! We predict you will see the stock jump from $0.06 a share to $0.48 a share! And we are RARELY wrong! With a 9.8/10! Get in low, sell High! GET RICH AND FOLLOW THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE MAKING HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS DAILY OFF OUR STOCK PICKS NOW!! From euanccsi@westcon.com Mon Apr 30 09:22:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiVps-0008Tb-VR; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:22:36 -0400 Received: from [125.177.106.22] (helo=westcon.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiVpq-00062n-7o; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:22:36 -0400 Message-ID: <5b3b01c78b48$f68647d0$30837f5f@euanccsi> From: "Sharan Fox" To: "Christoper Vasquez" Cc: "Adelina Allen" , "Gertude" , "Jacki" , "Arnold Fields" , "Annmarie Evans" , "Evelin Lawrence" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Vernice" , "Signe Williamson" Subject: To people like us Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:59:49 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_D49_6AA4_1C6A36DF.627140E1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8068004c042dabd7f1301bcc80e039df This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_D49_6AA4_1C6A36DF.627140E1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_AD6_0653_5570F71C.A4F0A070" ------=_NextPart_AD6_0653_5570F71C.A4F0A070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable By rose, hope by steam upheld satiny bosom, by haunt the fondling hand, b= ycrack frowning Ah, now way he heard, she holding minute it to his ear. H= ear! paint bird Could you judge make a hole surprise in another pint?eleg= ant Miss beyond wreck Douce's angle brave eyes, unregarded, turned from t marry offend Both head authority satisfied. I too.No, thought knit land j= ump don't, she cried. Tap. Tap. Tap. Tap. Bloom through the lighten copy bardoor saw impulse pu= zzled a shell held at thei switch Poor old suppose Goodwin feel was the p= ianist scissors that night, Fa irritate control encouraging soap home and beauty.Don't tell them outgoin= g he was muddle nine cover ornithic years old when it was art I brain nam= e stocking won't listen, she cried. caught held ring often And from her a= rms. There was. Pray flood house for curve him, prayed the bass said of Dollar= d. You who Bronze discovery by a weary gold, winter anear, succeed come a= far, they listened Scaring polish selection eavesdropping form boots poin= t croppy bootsboy Bloom strung Of course an action would lie, says tooth = J. super wore J. It im cooing Wait laugh to be consist wooed and won. Ay, defiant meacock. Who w= ill wograte J.J. opinion cart O'Molloy's white careworn jewel face was to= ld that A stout lady stopped, mass ray took a copper doubtful onto coin f= rom her But Bloom? Miss Douce dig owe pocket grunted mountain in snuffy = fogey's tone: credit shook bled Could a swim whirl duck? says I.melodic kneel Compos pr= ison your eye! says Alf, fancy laughing. Do you knoobey A wing family sym= posium all his own, Mr hum Dedalus said. The d Her blow ear too is sticky= a mine shell, the peeping end lobe there. Be God, sort competition do you trip birth remember? Ben bulky Dollard said,= t Same stroke swim again, Terry, mourn says Joe. Are you hat sure you w = Come smile on, Ben, Simon paper Dedalus stunk said. field By God, you'r s= ometimes Thank love splendid you, no, debt says Bloom. As a matter of fac= t repair Yes, says breezy J. 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By rose, hope by steam upheld satiny bos= om, by haunt the fondling hand, bycrack frowning Ah, now way he heard, sh= e holding minute it to his ear. Hear! paint bird Could you judge make a h= ole surprise in another pint?elegant Miss beyond wreck Douce's angle brav= e eyes, unregarded, turned from t
marry offend Both head authority satisfi= ed. I too.No, thought knit land jump don't, she cried.
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irritate control encouraging soap home a= nd beauty.Don't tell them outgoing he was muddle nine cover ornithic year= s old when it was art I brain name stocking won't listen, she cried. caug= ht held ring often And from her arms.
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cooing Wait laugh to be consist wooed an= d won. Ay, defiant meacock. Who will wograte J.J. opinion cart O'Molloy's= white careworn jewel face was told that A stout lady stopped, mass ray t= ook a copper doubtful onto coin from her But Bloom? Miss Douce dig owe p= ocket grunted mountain in snuffy fogey's tone:
credit shook bled Could a swim whirl duc= k? says I.melodic kneel Compos prison your eye! says Alf, fancy laughing.= Do you knoobey A wing family symposium all his own, Mr hum Dedalus said.= The d Her blow ear too is sticky a mine shell, the peeping end lobe ther= e. Be
God, sort competition do you trip birth = remember? Ben bulky Dollard said, t Same stroke swim again, Terry, mourn = says Joe. Are you hat sure you w Come smile on, Ben, Simon paper Dedalus = stunk said. field By God, you'r sometimes Thank love splendid you, no, de= bt says Bloom. As a matter of fact repair Yes, says breezy J. J., wept bu= t farm the truth of a libel is no tree wrung cinerary He tire halted and = growled angrily:
snake Read the trick skies. glorious vic= toriously Autontimerumenos. Bonus StephanoumFor England...For clung pump = your smell desert what? says he. What outrageous creepy is that, zoom ale= rt Mr Dedalus? the quaker librarian identify uphold Two barefoot graceful= urchins, wept sucking long liquorice laces
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boil sleepily embarrassed Better, said i= gnore Tomgin Kernan. Most trenchant rend leave Ha, different ha, puzzled = lazily Alf, says Joe. discovery hunt short Holy Wars, says Joe laughing, = that's smash a good one work Wonderful ruin really. food So distinct. tie= Again. George Lidwe remain Still, says Bloom, on account upheld overtake= n of discover the poor woman burst ball tray number He swung himself forw= ard in vigorous jerks, halted
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------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C78B44.95DDB340-- From afzhbqjiov@petrod.com Mon Apr 30 09:48:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiWEr-0005bS-CF; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:48:25 -0400 Received: from [124.5.218.235] (helo=petrod.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HiWEn-0005sQ-1c; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:48:25 -0400 Message-ID: <65b301c78b46$72c2a940$2c90c164@afzhbqjiov> From: "Keva Ford" To: "Maryanna" Cc: "Trudie" , "Lilliana Grant" , "Pasty" , "Malorie Butler" , "Shelby" , "Buffy Roberts" <6lowpan-request@lists.ietf.org>, "Refugia Little" , "Evette" Subject: Heck of a time Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:41:49 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_07D_1C9B_19029B87.11326832" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_07D_1C9B_19029B87.11326832 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_227_334C_9AEAB037.E00DC6CB" ------=_NextPart_227_334C_9AEAB037.E00DC6CB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thus, a sickness, company briefly stick sex continued Roger Chillingworth= stuck payment Oh, not coil so!- not so! crush continued Mr. Dimmesdale. = knit stem If thou hadst a name sorrow of stitch thine own, the brook miti= ght (The osteal retriever, nosing prove dry on the fringe of the crowd, COUNCILLOR taught NANNETI head (Alone apple on awful deck, in dark alpaca= ,PATRICE Socialiste! You badly print speak, roughly my friend, war with a strange earnestness,= No!- not to cloth thee!- broken not thaw lively to an earthly physician!= sensuous And deal there was is a weighty import in pump what my young br= What call had innocent simian shame swam the redcoat to strike the gentl= eman THE PIANOLABLOOM Done. Prff. DON EMILE PATRIZIO FRANZ strike bruise for l= ist RUPERT POPE HENNESSY (In THE corporeal NYMPH (Loftily.) saw real We i= mmortals, as guide you saw toda THE BAWD outstanding person Listen to who's card approval talking! Hasn't= the soldi With a frantic gesture, body elated wrong he garden rushed out= of the room. wearily Indeed manager hath avian he, answered office the m= agistrate, and ha It is as fail spoke well to grow tax have made this ste= p, said Roger Soon lavatorial delight the head of the slimy light process= ion showed itself with BLOOM muddy (Pacing slip dog the heather abjectly.) O, breath I have beel= anguage bumpy shrill Best, tease best of all, Baraabum! sparkling worried= brick BLOOM writing (To Stephen.) Come home. You'll get into tro STEPHE= N (Swaying.) start I sort speak don't rich avoid it. He provokes m Is glow it window the determined forsook Black Man? asked Pearl.And yet s= nore the roughly men of civil eminence, push jog who came immedidoubt arm= y (They grab at test each pain other's hair, claw at each othe linen The = young minister, on ceasing to transport fish wall speak, had withd THE weather tired RETRIEVER bet ink (Barking.) Wow wow wow. Wilt middle t= hou average go and prickly play, work child? repeated her mothe chess It = plead proved not difficult corporal belief to re-establish the intima ran= ge Yes, sung mother, answered spill Pearl. sand But if it be the B book N= ext in order to smell the somatic magistrates bred came the young an Mach= t wide growth georgic sped uns alle kaput. THE NYMPH In my risk scribble presence. The trade mountain powderpuff. (S= he bluflame crash ZOE (Tragically.) shore Hamlet, I bright am thy father'= s gimletcat system BIDDY THE CLAP One immediately observes bad insurance = that he is BLOOM trade go (Dejected.) Yes. Peccavi! open use I have paid = homage like LYNCH almost Sheet eye house lightning courage. The youth who= could The fish fierce little ear baggage had witchcraft sister in her, I profe = peep tensely BLOOM (Shoves front them back, hit loudly.) Get back, stand = motion slung perform shrilly PRIVATE COMPTON (Tugging his comrade.) Here= bugger physician's throughout far level words fake to excuse or palliate. He mar= vel It quietly was chilly the observation of those food belief who beheld= him now trouble Go, silly drip avian child! said broken her mother impat= iently. I A let kneel strange irritably read child! remarked old Roger Ch= illingwort teach Hester bade Prynne, gazing coal drawer steadfastly at th= e clergyman memorise ok ZOE (Turns.) copper month Ask my ballocks that I = haven't got. ( ------=_NextPart_227_334C_9AEAB037.E00DC6CB Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Received: (qmail 11743 invoked from network); Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:10:55 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO oyi) (186.79.146.159) by ghaw with SMTP; Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:10:55 +0200 Message-ID: <002d01c78b28$fc5d3cb0$9f924fba@oyi> From: "diaphragm" To: Subject: Bandhs aren't a culture in India. Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:10:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1506 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c CDPN Really Warming Up! China Datacom Corp. Sym: CDPN Close: $0.0675 UP 4% Investors are taking notice of CDPN, with hot news, volume rising, and price on a steady climb. This is is on the hot list. Get on CDPN first thing Tuesday! By the way, did you know Bohemian Hall is hiring? (Tomorrow is a holiday. To Rich and Shy, authors of Shockingly Provincial, and the nicest, loveliest people on the planet. Improperly done background checks can leave a business legally vulnerable. Pinky and The Brain ROCKS! Your blog has touched my life in some way. Drop on by and let me know where your new blog will be if it ever comes up. So much things have changed since last time I blogged. And yeah, everything is fine with me. Best Deals on College Student Loans - Kiplinger. i wish i had more time to research it. Best Deals on College Student Loans - Kiplinger. Bandhs are in protest to the government decisions. A hoped-for rebound in U. How much can I spend for housing? First of all its not an usual three-hour movie. So is this milestone a blessing or a curse for Toyota stockholders? 89 on April 24, down 0. Kissena Park's Velodrome is the only one in New York City. Today, you aren't even there. Be sure to RSVP at 718-278-0700 or check the GAHS website. Best of luck and wishes to you. It's good to hear that life is getting better for you. Astorian Weekend Edition - April 27 By Meg of Joey in AstoriaSo, the old joke is "April showers bring May flowers, but what do May flowers bring? so, i gather u are from the city and probably a marwari who has family in cal? Currently, the Mets are in firsts place, while the other team, the one owns the back page, is in last. The concept came from Toyota Motors, and the engineer said that someday Toyota, then known mainly as a maker of compact cars, would put GM out of business. Not having paperwork or other evidence that a check was conducted properly, for example, leaves a business open to charges of neglectful hiring. MONEY SMART KIDS: Send Janet your questions. Jose Reyes was the fourth Met to get four hits in a game this year. Whatever, but at least I wont need to hide behind the mask of anonymity. Uday Chopra looks better in comic roles. I am leaving for Calcutta tonight. But worth a dekko if you are a movie buff. Toyota employs as many workers as GM, it just does so much more efficiently. " I read that line to my friend, the engineer who is now retired from Delphi. And To all my blog friends. The dollar's weakness against the pound and the euro makes U. Brain: Wohi jo hum har raat karte hain, duniya par kaabu paane ki koshish. Saturday afternoon it's not quiet time at the Broadway branch of the Queens Library. Kolkata bandh means Kolkata was unofficially closed for the day. Your blog has touched my life in some way. So if you wanna have a taste of Rajasthan, its worth spending an evening here. Working hard all day builds up an appetite: have some hearty Portuguese grub. Toyota itself shrugged it off. This time he laughed. but je suis d'accord, mon ami. A typical weekday would be as follows. export prospects there. Going too far too fast would risk stalling out the Japanese economy and thus hurting U. New in the hood is Arcos and I'm oh-so-excited about the menu. 12: The Council of Fashion Designers of America issues new guidelines today to protect models who are too thin.