From nobody Fri Feb 2 07:41:28 2018 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E43212D88F for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 07:41:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hSA6-fKO4Flr for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 07:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x236.google.com (mail-io0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 621D712D95D for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 07:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x236.google.com with SMTP id m11so23350860iob.2 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 07:41:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=FZ9EzBiScMSBob49eAn7PFq84KBVWo3mOtPYLNVqT0M=; b=kL/Mr9TVYcMBd/RHAgNCOQT+iXgL57lKJjit0KXv4XQqsKNwQilNHfduyDpxnhJT1H 5cGnjHdF9U5gUlPvVI4Ht9UMxqFobyG1c6bow4VmBRK0LOMCbLEVz0o3MDhrpOIcb0DW m7fdVx8CdkEIAx3qaBmkhLr/U2h2IJydIRhv2mtyUZ/8OZABkMguvzbZmycuCsDTGrx7 BtoHRMco3+zavlNR0AVGiuwf6C2wsa7u09xrUFPJfCAbYrhz9Em2g8wqO67CIxgUnM8v m7C//3+xvPEWi+oHRzp6rMNYxJG6qfWIjJ44Emq+fzRYN2p6vmMg1edh8rYPEpzdQWs9 zYGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=FZ9EzBiScMSBob49eAn7PFq84KBVWo3mOtPYLNVqT0M=; b=B9/FPGh4J/g5wvmoD3ZlJN2qQcBa9VsXVVnC+qBTi204Gi50BtvZ4Iew1Ujksyz+qv VgDmwHdPr+Z60IOBpIpr+pZm7LOChILG/99qdbo1Rctn677FIVCNSMhm6XxfyNOrp+Bc EFoq6G3CECcJhIR3/nxYNQ+DgkpMGuQ+j+3CjEtQIYLvG/TDj4wOmItY9x3fgRURzIdV SZAtEkOTC3hRqJSq1DHllz+XA1VtBreg/H0e5wgUKeerV5UygTW6qtF0imcJMaK/3+BS XMxZLtWTNSpncCs8iQG/cBOpWDlbT4N/2SuMctETFj3bBU4rKRSm9lkyao50vjMbfzXK 2S2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytcTE09cTZN9jIgE1BXxF8x615mnc0Q5oHQ7OSDTHv7eXCiBrcNT phXA/jt9SKF7JmTpiOK05b8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224zFZpqOj4m+2p8AKJoTMo8aXK0SZKBZ3A5kO2d6RI440CjIEZpcQlKz+BYCErWq8huHKkxBg== X-Received: by 10.107.88.9 with SMTP id m9mr1524478iob.12.1517586074484; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 07:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from Russ ([2600:1700:720:1050:5d5e:b00a:2974:6c75]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j204sm1219769itj.37.2018.02.02.07.41.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Feb 2018 07:41:14 -0800 (PST) From: <7riw77@gmail.com> To: "'Brian E Carpenter'" Cc: References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 10:41:15 -0500 Message-ID: <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJhq6FqXfQxKPsi9uY8X1ef5BV5bQJ9OQ9TASu4nfEBwpaRTQKGdYJTAomRt9ACySBY7wIa3tiUofojTkA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 15:41:26 -0000 > b) If you can provide scoping text that defines which routers are = covered, > rather than a generalisation like "pretty much all", we could stop = arguing. I can't think of any scoping text that cannot have holes punched in it, = and hence won't end up being a separate document itself. If folks could = provide scoping that will hold up against various objections and corner = cases, whether for the entire document or individual requirements, I'd = be happy to include it. IMHO, such text is a null set -- there are too many corner cases, etc. = For instance, you cannot say "routers designed for home use do not need = to follow these recommendations" -- whose home, and under what = conditions (managed by a provider, by the user, etc.)? Or "routers = designed to operate at the Internet core" -- too ambiguous, and it's not = always true... It _might_ be possible to find some _specific_, = individual, requirements on which we can get _everyone_ to agree to a = scope -- but I don't see any evidence of this yet. =F0=9F=98=8A /r From nobody Fri Feb 2 07:44:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D868612D961 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 07:44:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.71 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.71 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ewqGyxHgpYXA for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 07:44:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x22d.google.com (mail-it0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D5C3129511 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 07:44:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id p139so9020592itb.1 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 07:44:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=di+656bFKhWoUccRSva83nVTebM4SiZ0C8UzzTbxYU8=; b=sP8izdEs/cADa3u0JrYJpywaWsgab1FgxbeZL1uFnlOSQlJY3+//GSDO4B/M169/IP XXEiP7RrdeHDbzbhVlsvb6XgCFjrFYHwrejeX0+CPpJvXMbgxBfGfznJZpdENBFb9t9p qr1UsLNrtdVu10xA+eVmo6jiPwDGpR+bF2bVij6fUgtvaJAf5Ti+LewghxE/YDYPrN81 Xpu2760IflPeCVhv1rCu1HvdRcSuDZj0a8qjRayxli9DO7NJH0k8qyjikk/rvfI9Hxf0 RxqQReJptNCnTW7WbyDyKebNqUhA8Ex0CLuR5i6EuQQ+EVbR478xxeAO95zWeUpHF6Hh k1og== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=di+656bFKhWoUccRSva83nVTebM4SiZ0C8UzzTbxYU8=; b=uKmTJ+hqx0q+/TXuA8d71f0Hs+OOmquUmVg+ma4bGgN5ZR7W56gftyp8Pufnmc6/E4 ERVaKdLWa3OC/lIb8LJZlPU83xXiabjEvGaUhDCUJ3wHy24iTzfC3kprX8mgmldHlbrs PpNX4VAktKJocFa5GlnBgiOP53pCh/A6gZM5NW4E9poCfKoCWZNQ7JdQRPvotye6aEIG 1295O0RuJRUz8W5IKE89eq06t7VouB2lZsfQ6D7mHNCoZbSMljaI8OPqe8cKYEGtGu21 F8tcFmIaELT7Veofe075ptGWLA0NZDAgphS/eELjtaQ4Cpb2CL4t9HuLxAPW9OGx/HIU 2yoA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdSij8N9R9no5d0JktV7wJ/ig+m6cxQlVk6GzbICTpaRbQhDL12 6dcEoGZHRnD8eI9BlcUeU80ijZP5rSoZeaDyzNOWEQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225ez9BdqYxfFsuw9+9EoD7rKdFPuUtYHCBeLitYiKQqceXfNuUVV3aWOA4wf0K0wABEAqKkP9P1o5jDK41lV2M= X-Received: by 10.36.93.136 with SMTP id w130mr47515447ita.106.1517586284008; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 07:44:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.114.16 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 07:44:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> From: Lorenzo Colitti Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 00:44:23 +0900 Message-ID: To: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com> Cc: Brian E Carpenter , "v6ops@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1144ad5c60918505643c976b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 15:44:47 -0000 --001a1144ad5c60918505643c976b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 12:41 AM, <7riw77@gmail.com> wrote: > I can't think of any scoping text that cannot have holes punched in it, > and hence won't end up being a separate document itself. If folks could > provide scoping that will hold up against various objections and corner > cases, whether for the entire document or individual requirements, I'd be > happy to include it. > But if we do not include scoping text, this document might not achieve consensus, in which case none of the text would get published at all. --001a1144ad5c60918505643c976b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= at, Feb 3, 2018 at 12:41 AM, <7riw77@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't think of any scoping text that can= not have holes punched in it, and hence won't end up being a separate d= ocument itself. If folks could provide scoping that will hold up against va= rious objections and corner cases, whether for the entire document or indiv= idual requirements, I'd be happy to include it.
But if we do not include scoping text, this document might not= achieve consensus, in which case none of the text would get published at a= ll.
--001a1144ad5c60918505643c976b-- From nobody Fri Feb 2 11:29:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F0912DA07 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:29:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dgi92f2x2K4G for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl0-x230.google.com (mail-pl0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65374127011 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:29:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl0-x230.google.com with SMTP id 13so6923548plb.5 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:29:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=26dtmah5h/+66qQdO8SVSQnIuuCBguDWMk/5J3axo5g=; b=Z15ooeNX26KwfdypFS40+04+m9xsDFVZppQowf5mNNskUIR2RMMUChso+n71Acx1z2 wFJbERp4HOUHOsB0b1wbgAPxlECmmUxYcgGbnNc7jzQ4m3qzDZymp91BGyMYXOSnqC9v ZuBzLWQdcjIiNkLX9Bo6JMc6ZtYjpSWj7I9g1WoeN5gNWe6rSsBv/DwuGskYgOaxTqku Nty7cF4qn5yJeMBMgct7u64f7O1TEskr5HYTnBaOwRSIJBlQYO5zQUSVecgz6uBHjPEs jAVubOo/WxW7AriEVUmS+BEyDx5REWK1VJrgHl7k3d1tF3UGFnHZ3LcNOIfGEUkGujKw 27BA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=26dtmah5h/+66qQdO8SVSQnIuuCBguDWMk/5J3axo5g=; b=rAcBIEbiPscf6nc/caaKRNtKfSDf2xIjDZVRaz3LBASFU39lz9JKrUGuVZ8hEmUDCN lmHhT80kUfXtkE0H71NTJiP+mRMFseoxkoeSy86xIjWmewEoy8qvbAXDVtB8osATeq8l psH2cIp/WO2DF8PkDTFfv5cMV8xhgUkePpaDwSRXOLHEpyfj8MtTYlirue6dMePoflvI 43CJ9luWwiyYSrra3RSrDB7RMGrT6AMM26MP1naf4x/gZFe0vzM53WINaE5u8hConvDf a4vqD/CWlFBkazdKCe6QK1An46uz+bmifwXMO/JkZreQsmsEOST/dWPLORgihc/ZDeE+ bT1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytf8MagKXMhr1kYVbG5qQAtjskBxH4AM35OGG53CwVu/1Ejyr9+J AcgVYq+J0o4MXY0yd4v8yZn9Aw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224y+WSIjukiL+yrEuYpXqATBQxGA7A5Man8IyiXRhE8IC2WwIo8OIZqMd0leD7SMzeQzA0ymw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:9a84:: with SMTP id w4-v6mr23093622plp.136.1517599791672; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:29:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e001:3ff5:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e001:3ff5:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k29sm3903812pgn.28.2018.02.02.11.29.49 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:29:50 -0800 (PST) To: Lorenzo Colitti , Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com> Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org WG" References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <79647f09-c224-6df1-0e0a-f74b11a536a7@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 08:29:59 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 19:29:54 -0000 On 03/02/2018 04:44, Lorenzo Colitti wrote: > On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 12:41 AM, <7riw77@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I can't think of any scoping text that cannot have holes punched in it, >> and hence won't end up being a separate document itself. If folks could >> provide scoping that will hold up against various objections and corner >> cases, whether for the entire document or individual requirements, I'd be >> happy to include it. >> > > But if we do not include scoping text, this document might not achieve > consensus, in which case none of the text would get published at all. Unless you reduce it to a "here are some things you might like to think about" list. I agree with Lorenzo. If you can't state the scope of your document, it's pretty close to useless. Brian From nobody Fri Feb 2 11:59:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21BFC1242F5 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:59:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=umn.edu Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id duZt4eVvuqeN for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:59:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta-p8.oit.umn.edu (mta-p8.oit.umn.edu [134.84.196.208]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 269651241F8 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mta-p8.oit.umn.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3A69FB for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 19:59:47 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at umn.edu Received: from mta-p8.oit.umn.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta-p8.oit.umn.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ajtm5BRLPlzP for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:59:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from mail-vk0-f70.google.com (mail-vk0-f70.google.com [209.85.213.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mta-p8.oit.umn.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 349A8918 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:59:47 -0600 (CST) Received: by mail-vk0-f70.google.com with SMTP id g66so13435635vke.0 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:59:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=umn.edu; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cryklhcSJdk5LqlSSo5ni3bwl7Cwr1K4Ozmk7/l2mok=; b=hkx4s4Kawj57Gp1x175BoNAIhK3UngBhSc1f2jLAsW5QK06sfNRlwDfec5DqRjDftu 0QrNjn8OoKOs8Felq5cAHYvFgDHOr3QcmIsqgpohQkO+2+OtXDN8Ehj8hxS4a4fJqzr2 ceKtSEqr7Z1i2Ki7iykO1TkdQgYR3shoXWWF0aipsAsS2pV03z88heJRNoONxNXhJYkK Vp+9wSbLHaJqRdzYDbp4Wdo0onzMLqYl6THdLELetCqWe2Pig+DPBrp5kU3K9yktbGrz 8xXDxzLvco/HstN5Y4RB0jkuX3jMLk6DDBOMXSS9EaFYVkpLMq3U0TvwcDujkhz1Kz2I ZZKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cryklhcSJdk5LqlSSo5ni3bwl7Cwr1K4Ozmk7/l2mok=; b=m6Sfjbb+oQngaM9+tNT/cf6/pGB4VQZ/95h47j851GL6FoUqNtrOiTTSqXNr4YTr42 chmwSH4g5jcbEOVmtWMHmJBhD9q25Kixnl0wwjtY6wvJNj4jwZMKnLpqpznIC+YFvgOO ljHF/Z+s5KvfM3miYzcxWCrPNKuq5wo0QQLlUPiDR1qE0Feiosa7Lz/ra+Ynch1wD2Z3 EjCizfUDs2Lo/bSXLzkiaJsnpaWTpPRkOdDE6l6NS2rBFge3t7jD8uiJ7PSeCsoD02QA QBX7nwv3nDgVMCxpJo2fTJL32VUaWRJSr3x07Nutvpe376e+gwFc/wLt18UptxH2fFts 4mVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdbFkHelTWVMFM2DYPhh6H8NiVrBBY4fZH6OSHFCjMNWSr8ZDy3 KVxle2xekFGcK7l6Bw7OOgfysDIrcK03DBkExagPdkI8oPq5Iuv+YYpVyXaFsWMK89eJSx/AA0x jUM6Ylnk+4QA+MHLp0gPkBARa3A== X-Received: by 10.159.50.105 with SMTP id y38mr21511228uad.123.1517601586309; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:59:46 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227ag31kohyPdvaDTj9CPnHAPp692ZVboATbuCKxqdwwGmygjwO8EGfnsngt0q0oLDFZ68QG5kuQaWe7MMAUKpA= X-Received: by 10.159.50.105 with SMTP id y38mr21511205uad.123.1517601585912; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 11:59:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.96.65 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 11:59:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> From: David Farmer Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:59:45 -0600 Message-ID: To: 7riw77@gmail.com Cc: Brian E Carpenter , V6 Ops List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145625e707c5b0564402721" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 19:59:50 -0000 --001a1145625e707c5b0564402721 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:41 AM, <7riw77@gmail.com> wrote: > > > b) If you can provide scoping text that defines which routers are > covered, > > rather than a generalisation like "pretty much all", we could stop > arguing. > > I can't think of any scoping text that cannot have holes punched in it, > and hence won't end up being a separate document itself. If folks could > provide scoping that will hold up against various objections and corner > cases, whether for the entire document or individual requirements, I'd be > happy to include it. > > IMHO, such text is a null set -- there are too many corner cases, etc. Fo= r > instance, you cannot say "routers designed for home use do not need to > follow these recommendations" -- whose home, and under what conditions > (managed by a provider, by the user, etc.)? Or "routers designed to opera= te > at the Internet core" -- too ambiguous, and it's not always true... It > _might_ be possible to find some _specific_, individual, requirements on > which we can get _everyone_ to agree to a scope -- but I don't see any > evidence of this yet. > > =F0=9F=98=8A /r > What about someting like this; The primary focus is routers for enterprise or carrier use, however most of the features also have broad applicability to all routers. --=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D David Farmer Email:farmer@umn.edu Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --001a1145625e707c5b0564402721 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:41 AM, <7riw77@gmail.com> wrote:

> b) If you can provide scoping text that defines which routers are cove= red,
> rather than a generalisation like "pretty much all", we coul= d stop arguing.

I can't think of any scoping text that cannot have holes punched in it,= and hence won't end up being a separate document itself. If folks coul= d provide scoping that will hold up against various objections and corner c= ases, whether for the entire document or individual requirements, I'd b= e happy to include it.

IMHO, such text is a null set -- there are too many corner cases, etc. For = instance, you cannot say "routers designed for home use do not need to= follow these recommendations" -- whose home, and under what condition= s (managed by a provider, by the user, etc.)? Or "routers designed to = operate at the Internet core" -- too ambiguous, and it's not alway= s true... It _might_ be possible to find some _specific_, individual, requi= rements on which we can get _everyone_ to agree to a scope -- but I don'= ;t see any evidence of this yet.

=F0=9F=98=8A /r

What about someting lik= e this;

The primary focus is routers for enterprise or carrier use, = however most of the features also have broad applicability to all routers.= =C2=A0

--=C2=A0
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Da= vid Farmer=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 Email:farmer@umn.edu
Networking &= ; Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
Univers= ity of Minnesota=C2=A0=C2=A0
2218 University Ave SE=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029=C2=A0=C2=A0 Cell:= 612-812-9952
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D
--001a1145625e707c5b0564402721-- From nobody Fri Feb 2 13:15:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C38C12D84E for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:15:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lXDSNu31FHjc for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl0-x236.google.com (mail-pl0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C339B12025C for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl0-x236.google.com with SMTP id j19so7112977pll.2 for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 13:15:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=focp6oHqk18bFRz0WMTW2ilbRmNQd7mm0TO9DaujKUc=; b=FLFSCNuGdjwvrb9fHDkuj8BB5eebjtm/Mv2yCkae0uv91Nxs8CDy7QuLHddGk0PkSu JCQyyIAyzsLd7sSotbvYNDUM+iCfe7AGJwZqDfSNZ6yia91XzutbILEQs+Wcc0nTmcUP caxjyXc3YtV/nYUIuEwz/ILyQoYgn4LZMhkujOp6WwJBIvQlqjTFmSRStJ26FMcWNGP/ Y/B9k6bZ4YgTxjM6o2Em58dEGb8srn1IQzm8kaglH1XZRpRoUkA7mElbMY+zn2PEXibB DW7FK2MmIkaPNRB4Mya2LffqzpoTnDV7hzELaisdL/eJCbsoR81PT7OXA8nH2h5U4yP+ q7IA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=focp6oHqk18bFRz0WMTW2ilbRmNQd7mm0TO9DaujKUc=; b=X+LAt+cIa+LqLbBhEF/+4jnjDxgsYOV07lnZDQL2IMZhDJmTfuTyUUei/8+aXBUIDU kPv8P1/GIiKmmRUEsN04UEmroANYi3KU9h9CJNQh9HBkjVSJgO7ULbQAFb7cMdkZhWVA Qo5NLOKNkeGvdiL00fZkR5mOQFaXZBI5Vv4pW996+wJG+QQLz86ED+VvcIhfwfqQXTrW w9YW1yPX8UXLNKSwRMdJgaQsiTucx6z+4XXzqIF0BUR4AA1XIiluUycfS8LbKI1+S7WY +D2qPc++WUKzC+ka6y6lLiINMGXKDVdV8WzVj5HJyMVK4rBTB8vpINtbfQVLMfCPOThG a1yg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytejPo8XtdrQHi9RI0wf2c9x/Fz/23pkbRF8YL2x3udJ/LmsRdJF 6Zu0bDh2g/aw+l3V/eA6oIQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226m0h8rF6kAfIYpPCj1ZBgqIoTZKjns0Z5d9WjMHQW/tOBBtSFEGQHG6VeVqC5uS8vdvt3csQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8c89:: with SMTP id t9-v6mr34963770plo.2.1517606132347; Fri, 02 Feb 2018 13:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.224.219] ([209.97.127.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s90sm6201158pfi.139.2018.02.02.13.15.29 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Feb 2018 13:15:29 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_52C26FFC-6989-4BAB-952B-970EEE483466"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 13:15:27 -0800 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , 7riw77@gmail.com, V6 Ops List To: David Farmer References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 21:15:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_52C26FFC-6989-4BAB-952B-970EEE483466 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 David, > On Feb 2, 2018, at 11:59 AM, David Farmer wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 9:41 AM, <7riw77@gmail.com> wrote: >=20 > > b) If you can provide scoping text that defines which routers are = covered, > > rather than a generalisation like "pretty much all", we could stop = arguing. >=20 > I can't think of any scoping text that cannot have holes punched in = it, and hence won't end up being a separate document itself. If folks = could provide scoping that will hold up against various objections and = corner cases, whether for the entire document or individual = requirements, I'd be happy to include it. >=20 > IMHO, such text is a null set -- there are too many corner cases, etc. = For instance, you cannot say "routers designed for home use do not need = to follow these recommendations" -- whose home, and under what = conditions (managed by a provider, by the user, etc.)? Or "routers = designed to operate at the Internet core" -- too ambiguous, and it's not = always true... It _might_ be possible to find some _specific_, = individual, requirements on which we can get _everyone_ to agree to a = scope -- but I don't see any evidence of this yet. >=20 > =F0=9F=98=8A /r >=20 > What about someting like this; >=20 > The primary focus is routers for enterprise or carrier use, however = most of the features also have broad applicability to all routers. >=20 The current draft seems to me to be both very broad and specific at the = same time. For example, it doesn=E2=80=99t say anything about routing = protocols, but then gets into lots of detail about which type of DHCPv6 = and RA options to send. Then doesn=E2=80=99t mention DHCPv6 prefix = delegation. It would be good to decide what the focus is, I am having difficulty = telling from reading the draft. Bob --Apple-Mail=_52C26FFC-6989-4BAB-952B-970EEE483466 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAlp01O8ACgkQrut0EXfn u6iAbQf/c0V0jKwNPuJORiRQETKvhBNe89lIWrexsqWEul8XtE9WWqOmz6EwQLCm /RYCtfGyAW27P5H2E8LsScc3i3jcErh5gp60LyWSSdcxaiINUcghzqvh+TKJVoir bbWePAxzPGJx+P0x5757ks3Xv8bMeK/cHcvw0DrnalmEhyswfvPqPF1JePQW7vwg SkRQvFRZCKFxoGXZAKaGpTqNmIHH5ZrQOJAWacvkKuQDjDT+rvaTagxkRrwJ8OMO +G8gkXkBwxb8ztWbCkfswlPWX+AKDaP/ULu04nYaFll9hnHXi9LqtsZdxJMcWlNX lP13Edd/fTK7xLj1fqxjGOAQJVKGKw== =Pihi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_52C26FFC-6989-4BAB-952B-970EEE483466-- From nobody Fri Feb 2 15:02:09 2018 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEC01242F7 for ; 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Fri, 02 Feb 2018 15:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from Russ ([2600:1700:720:1050:5d5e:b00a:2974:6c75]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d65sm1702122itd.19.2018.02.02.15.02.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 02 Feb 2018 15:02:05 -0800 (PST) From: <7riw77@gmail.com> To: "'David Farmer'" Cc: "'Brian E Carpenter'" , "'V6 Ops List'" References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2018 18:02:05 -0500 Message-ID: <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJhq6FqXfQxKPsi9uY8X1ef5BV5bQJ9OQ9TASu4nfEBwpaRTQKGdYJTAomRt9ACySBY7wIa3tiUAel2dO8BzIfi5aHc71pA Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2018 23:02:08 -0000 > The primary focus is routers for enterprise or carrier use, however = most of the > features also have broad applicability to all routers. Anyone else on list have an opinion on this wording? I'm happy enough to = include whatever... I also sent out a possible text snippet before that = would ask developers/manufacturers to explain which things they don't = support from this. This might be useful in providing something you could = look at to help you see what might be "missing," etc., when evaluating = equipment. =F0=9F=98=8A /r From nobody Sat Feb 3 04:30:50 2018 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C6412D7E6 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2018 04:30:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I9FaelDu6hEn for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2018 04:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x22d.google.com (mail-io0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10CAD129511 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2018 04:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 72so25702337iom.10 for ; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 04:30:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=w0FsO8QVne50pTFppwgP0SiGLdBsw40poTokJ/27GFQ=; b=Jyau2Y0CaPl4l/k4O7UYJZ2JQodCDsmqHPuRVsJjAa3PkoNhDr/3oN1Rvi0ZAYAKtM qPJKMXnEg8R8xMO7k2JDUVQDGscHwHbeb2cl1w1xoLZG2Jrfw2rWZoIeH31ELVI4vZLL +wNXYx/QiUCF8bpEgN9I8DE0xFawh+D66j9lSTisvspu1ZukbRLpT01qDsC838BhBREt E5/FhYgoKj0Ujk/6usRXFR97AoVWn6OMF+zCezwS+jwt+ioZx5mnp3cGnG9/U122quhM dDWrFH1N4eetdVcTQTAs1CiRIGwCMD1kyzk2J1X8T/XJDAgzqNGvHpNMWzFDGndKW2Sx he5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=w0FsO8QVne50pTFppwgP0SiGLdBsw40poTokJ/27GFQ=; b=r4/ZO13gPZxDSuKnfGR/aCzpmnNcJffsSoQ6YZ5a4F+eZ0VWog2BGV8LoFLrId9RIx zfdc1AqQN3WbDFRS2NQ/M7n9fto5ZhCCWvHTqiYfBny47KvbP14G2rOIhoBBQ1p6BU1Z UIgFsQ2lkNMDl4c2u+odEN+FmXOIsZztGEMYEUy7ilI2MqMSILrzjgtM44FkXc9JxtN0 mUuJ63wHaDDV1LSSQC2SPArgMjmlDwDGha7NFZH0e3mV4B0dLAvWkoHi4bUhXNSkNIel yXcqAr5kY2qmHjDiPFRXcwbaXBvjBe8AmC3Ulk8rSmu/WSbtWmv7n4CZZZjcLNrQUKau NXWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdK7IrPH78eBK5u2TopkYtccOisVdS1xZ3JF/QA4VieMkM5TUNh 1UNZyFPrEhqP4jftwFRIZu8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226ychHcC5HiW3RSKB+2fi6C3nvPxfiFmx1sFpzddQPUpw+dPu1eOPIxLyZtJK1D+PZxUxE9YA== X-Received: by 10.107.180.16 with SMTP id d16mr18741386iof.244.1517661046196; Sat, 03 Feb 2018 04:30:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from Russ (162-229-180-77.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net. [162.229.180.77]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z197sm2702592ioz.16.2018.02.03.04.30.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 03 Feb 2018 04:30:45 -0800 (PST) From: <7riw77@gmail.com> To: "'David Farmer'" Cc: "'Brian E Carpenter'" , "'V6 Ops List'" References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2018 07:30:25 -0500 Message-ID: <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJhq6FqXfQxKPsi9uY8X1ef5BV5bQJ9OQ9TASu4nfEBwpaRTQKGdYJTAomRt9ACySBY7wIa3tiUAel2dO8BzIfi5QLM+yz4ocdonqA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2018 12:30:49 -0000 > > The primary focus is routers for enterprise or carrier use, however > > most of the features also have broad applicability to all routers. But, having said I'm happy to include whatever -- I will point out there = are lots of exceptions in this scoping. Just to name a few -- - I'm not really crazy about the "enterprise/service provider" divide, = as it doesn't really describe a lot of network operators - Given a WISP is a "service provider," and a WISP (by definition) runs = a large wireless network, and there have been a lot of objections on the = list about applying these requirements to edge wireless devices, I don't = think this scoping will work - Would this also cover, say, a route server at an IX? It seems it = would, and yet route servers do not forward traffic, so this is another = exception - Would the routing component of a "firewall" or "load balancer," = running in an "enterprise network" be considered a "router?" If so, = there a number of requirements in this document do not apply - Would a virtual router sitting in any network service be considered a = "router?" If so, I can imagine a number of situations where many of the = requirements here might not be necessary I could probably give tens of more examples of exceptions to the above = scoping. IMHO, it is much safer to include "if there are exceptions, please tell = me what they are" -- something like this: =3D=3D This document describes a minimal set of features any device designed to = run a control plane capable of computing loop free paths for IPv6, and = forwarding IPv6 packets, is expected to support. In some cases, it might = be that a device designed for a specific situation will not need a = particular feature listed in this document as a SHOULD or a MUST. In = these situations, the manufacturer or developer SHOULD provide a list of = features described either as SHOULD SUPPORT or MUST SUPPORT to operators = and consumers of the device. This will aid the operator by providing a = clear list of what is, and is not, supported by the device. =3D=3D =F0=9F=98=8A /r From nobody Sun Feb 4 13:42:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 433F5128C0A for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 13:42:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MXcoXmNvhNAE for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 13:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x22a.google.com (mail-wr0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94A80124207 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2018 13:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id s5so27729087wra.0 for ; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 13:42:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=e27/2E2zVdE2y+dmKlAQQ9YcoXIagWWpSV6VklA8DVk=; b=q3wi29sjm5huCZAdGYmygx9QkVpc1kzZO6wHkOcwJcxgxCmRriRh5jW1Qf/Jd2yazO yoqfEk+U6xkJBD7Rf1NS5fIH4mflKjEDwTXacQ5wJnzw4uVdkJr+Eg1i5m1inBcmQztX ssaxwBzaIqE86PbV1sYH4jiCIpECtwwkfU9TwXsrhZxn1rvmGTFLXUlG+a8Z93NeAH2Z Kg5DIesUFXf/saE4DOVDrBykXai6Li3iAh4JXWDb5XJwxi6JJXcNoQJvPrnc9+dM7eO2 10szEJbuW67DZ6V62uDhWKcB+0ZvvFk3kP51rwQw70r6bi/wGOM2imLEQU1iL3nz/jvN xFqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e27/2E2zVdE2y+dmKlAQQ9YcoXIagWWpSV6VklA8DVk=; b=MgOtc5Lly1r9ns3UeHFXqVlZ/+ULHT0/6nYDiuNvg1TqgzBGjprkQ9T6u4ABVvd+e+ yVUyV2LumeS0agyCcmnzPjMBfqAACCznIqGXLCtGCEccFYzk5peM1nTbinJPkT+lSX4J 6WOJmgStY2OuZMnt2rK4OuDcUNg8Ydt9d3+uXgeQ9y4kDTX2M4WFnhZ1GqrwSmj6u18H prGt1PPptZeZhgUNNxvhU7VlqIuidz0nSD4AYeTQB/N9Y9sSp8vCl8hIsuJlkX9AMoSW cQgKPb55N6JkGtVovO5FfCTJZ/uUiIIx/qn5k+tfOWwHQCoX0nXCzQX4Z0EmyJ3IFiTO vbjw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdSEKfCNt4kh3exNNctiTOIESSSMokOFF8K1xRpa3WSbh6qrU1W G54NMGBfrGdNGEYpk5hEpFAuPbYslSFc+B9fBFAwPg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227Q4VPI0OjpnksyTFGWMC7fkEbRI/hQCHfCguaY9SrULBmIpw2jniPEXjqLnUsXXeIdXouGz/uiwMzDtBeSs5o= X-Received: by 10.223.176.172 with SMTP id i41mr25666049wra.47.1517780531457; Sun, 04 Feb 2018 13:42:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> From: Lorenzo Colitti Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2018 21:41:58 +0000 Message-ID: To: Russ White <7riw77@gmail.com> Cc: David Farmer , "v6ops@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113cb5ce6d1c8c056469d1a6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2018 21:42:15 -0000 --001a113cb5ce6d1c8c056469d1a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, 3 Feb 2018, 04:30 , <7riw77@gmail.com> wrote: > This document describes a minimal set of features any device designed to > run a control plane capable of computing loop free paths for IPv6, and > forwarding IPv6 packets, is expected to support. > Sounds like that text excludes home routers and mobile hotspots, so you likely won't get strong complaints from vendors of those devices. It seems to me that the text also excludes devices that are primarily intended to be MPLS routers. LSRs aren't "designed to run a control plane capable of computing loop free paths", they're designed to switch labels. I assume this is not what you want. > --001a113cb5ce6d1c8c056469d1a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, = 3 Feb 2018, 04:30 , <7riw77@gmail.co= m> wrote:
This document describes a minimal set of features any device designed to ru= n a control plane capable of computing loop free paths for IPv6, and forwar= ding IPv6 packets, is expected to support.

Sounds like that text excludes ho= me routers and mobile hotspots, so you likely won't get strong complain= ts from vendors of those devices.

It seems to me that the text also excludes devices that are prima= rily intended to be MPLS routers. LSRs aren't "designed=C2=A0to run a control plane capable of computi= ng loop free paths", they're designed to switch labels. I assume t= his is not what you want.
--001a113cb5ce6d1c8c056469d1a6-- From nobody Mon Feb 5 00:49:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C7A3129C6D for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 00:49:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PrJ32pCoEab0 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 00:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1897F12AAB6 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 00:49:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id BC987B2; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 09:48:57 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1517820537; bh=6meJf11UF6ygS38A0mh/dMgp7YfjlZ2GuG9Lsk9q9l4=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Ol9UKTH6Qy9PWhwE0CsGyPnZAIT3liUQ6lV3cW3XrV3H0DIQNrW2jjwCt4wTnBlA/ AZJqyQ51w7OFyweRY0zCSmBQmYBvmbRN+hAbUsBV0qP4k3O0+VU/kCJ1jrEKh3W0nj E1EZeaHwQMGtuCT/58kbaSyvuPsfRrrRCFBrYxvY= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D28B1; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 09:48:57 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 09:48:57 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: 7riw77@gmail.com cc: v6ops@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <09b101d383fa$dd6fca30$984f5e90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <151491899410.22628.14408666128226236605@ietfa.amsl.com> <09b101d383fa$dd6fca30$984f5e90$@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs-01.txt X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 08:49:03 -0000 On Tue, 2 Jan 2018, 7riw77@gmail.com wrote: > - Should PVD be included? > - Add a redirects section -- I don't remember what this was in reference to. > - The suggestion for an appendix containing a plain list of the requirements. I'm reading -01. "The source address or other header fields (not common)" Don't we want this to become more common? I do. We have RFCs talking about this and it's one way of solving the multihoming problem we're fairly actively discussing? 3.4 Typo: "ot police" 4.x. sFlow and IPFIX is in wide use today. Don't we want to mention these at all? 5.3. Typo: "to calcualte the" "elucidation" is a word I had to look up. Is this commonly used in these kinds of documents? 5.4 Filter ICMP echo and reply by default??? I find this highly controversial and I do not agree with it. 6. Typo: "only addressing wil" Summary: While I do not oppose to much in this document, it's a bit confusing what the document wants to be. It's currently informational, but contains a lot of RFC2119 language. I realise that RFC7084 is also informational, is this the kind of document we're after? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Mon Feb 5 07:35:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2536126D73 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 07:35:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hEFVgeBO_Xf4 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 07:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2272912D847 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 07:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049287.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049287.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id w15FW5VW005097; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 10:35:06 -0500 Received: from alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (sbcsmtp6.sbc.com [144.160.229.23]) by m0049287.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2fxnqyms6d-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 05 Feb 2018 10:35:06 -0500 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w15FYwcH012124; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 10:35:04 -0500 Received: from alpi132.aldc.att.com (alpi132.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.2]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w15FYoPA011880 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Feb 2018 10:34:56 -0500 Received: from zlp30484.vci.att.com (zlp30484.vci.att.com [135.47.91.179]) by alpi132.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:34:34 GMT Received: from zlp30484.vci.att.com (zlp30484.vci.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by zlp30484.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 070074000368; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:34:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com (unknown [130.8.218.154]) by zlp30484.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTPS id E65EF4000361; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:34:33 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.5.51]) by GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.218.154]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 10:34:33 -0500 From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: "7riw77@gmail.com" <7riw77@gmail.com>, "'David Farmer'" CC: "'V6 Ops List'" Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs Thread-Index: AQHThAkt88VuzkKF+0q3aAiqoqlIRgJ9OQ9TASu4nfEBwpaRTQKGdYJTAomRt9CiC9Z1cIEc4/sAgBUtWICAAEg5gIAAMvKAgADh2ICAAvjDEA== Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 15:34:33 +0000 Message-ID: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0F9A6@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.10.223.241] Content-Type: text/plain; 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([2600:8802:5600:f::101b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v191sm4746440wmf.25.2018.02.05.08.02.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 05 Feb 2018 08:02:36 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Baker Message-Id: <8395CFA7-D7BA-405F-94C8-3E2406B4D1CF@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DDDE3057-A709-475A-80BB-71D7BCA4DF89"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.9\)) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 08:02:31 -0800 In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0F9A6@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> Cc: "7riw77@gmail.com" <7riw77@gmail.com>, David Farmer , V6 Ops List To: "STARK, BARBARA H" References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0F9A6@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.9) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 16:02:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DDDE3057-A709-475A-80BB-71D7BCA4DF89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks for this. It's cogent and to the point. I do have a question. The authors are from LinkedIn and Comcast. How = would you interpret that fact in the context of the facts you point out? > On Feb 5, 2018, at 7:34 AM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >=20 >>> The primary focus is routers for enterprise or carrier use, however >>> most of the features also have broad applicability to all routers. >=20 > I see a real need for recommendations for enterprise routers. I also = believe that any attempts to broaden the scope beyond that will both = slow down producing such recommendations and force the recommendations = to be watered down to the point whether they are significantly less = useful to enterprise networks. > Here is why I think most other router types either don't need or will = ignore these recommendations: > - CE routers are covered by RFC 7084 > - telco ISPs aren't asking for this (for their own ISP networks) and = tend to use BBF documents; any who are waiting until IETF produces = router requirements for them need to reconsider their strategy > - cable ISPs aren't asking for this (for their own ISP networks) and = tend to use CableLabs docs; any who are waiting until IETF produces = router requirements for them need to reconsider their strategy > - wireless ISPs aren't asking for this and tend to use 3GPP docs; any = who are waiting until IETF produces router requirements for them need to = reconsider their strategy > - transit/core network providers aren't asking for this and have = already got IPv6 running (and if they haven't, there's no excuse, = because the equipment is there); they also don't tend to do address = assignment (no hosts on those networks) so requirements for DHCPv6 and = SLAAC aren't needed; a lot of this equipment is done with SDN now; this = is also true of a lot of the "regional network" part of ISP networks > - IXCs don't tend to do address assignment and seem to have IPv6 in = place; any that don't have IPv6 -- it's not for lack of requirements; a = lot of them have gone to SDN >=20 > As for SDN: If you think an open source project doing SDN code is = missing some IPv6 functionality, it might be easier to contribute the = code, rather than write an RFC and see if some random person says "OMG, = the IETF is saying do this; no-one else is writing this code so I guess = I better do it". >=20 > We need to get enterprises transitioning. Whatever IETF can do to help = that specific audience would be appreciated. > Barbara >=20 > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops --Apple-Mail=_DDDE3057-A709-475A-80BB-71D7BCA4DF89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEctjlJjQmVrp9uMq7EhdRnd2GP+AFAlp4gBcACgkQEhdRnd2G P+BXjQ//VlqZ2ISlyFFrsy/NBQVMc+hKxwf3skmj4bHUDipXdhnWZn+0pDaXrAEK ZbFQp4mGu5BVWr0C4Ocl3jQ7xI+M71WJbnhm1A+oj+wcKRCzI2uck/r00jOKqyLP CG0TMHufegDcJsv/7l0flV5YfbFlg7gRy1AuehRQpa9hX+6ItMWYhbhOztusu8ik webxZpStCc6vamTqrUvAva7LTqYZtHkyp9p2RZeoER8w30wygF6kTnG/IPJ/AfGy D+keFc8jaS53or9zo15rTC7RJib/r0Szj6ccdc+q8Zl8fAhGdZUC9UEaxWciOgaQ 9wtqXNURvW/hrLAd/1lVViZ0JCWJHvJ/Dh6uTg+0eIcILtbetDlsUdSzJAU2+CQ3 2c0Q42JdeIYoXhZ87xB37fGAiL1SCrEo7qVNBBaiXT5gmgY6t7TB5XW29W5bz+MQ d70z+kgQPAlTFGqWsMPJn3v5b036c+cIcgAevxNxmy1kRdpKAMjywcXu9GoA1mtA QKc3K4Po1vqmlCfCOgwT4nevAjGipzw1h5Dzj8/uJ695kwL+z/utMaedRc4oGPkK BMpu1Am+QJQ5HfNFp2saST06O+isxqN2wGeyJZoGOUfFSk19zIjYmLQZd0P+ZVm4 V52pEg1mCWDev6VhjbROvNgOa7r3ECRo2wUwqIt7RpOFUJpfVKo= =Z3w8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_DDDE3057-A709-475A-80BB-71D7BCA4DF89-- From nobody Mon Feb 5 09:11:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 846E71273B1 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 09:11:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zWbsWru3oTeD for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 09:11:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A8361270AB for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 09:11:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0083689.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0083689.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id w15H4vF3025535; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 12:11:23 -0500 Received: from alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (sbcsmtp6.sbc.com [144.160.229.23]) by m0083689.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2fxsa3ky6m-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 05 Feb 2018 12:11:23 -0500 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w15HBMZ1011713; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 12:11:22 -0500 Received: from alpi131.aldc.att.com (alpi131.aldc.att.com [130.8.218.69]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w15HBFSc011575 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 5 Feb 2018 12:11:17 -0500 Received: from zlp30484.vci.att.com (zlp30484.vci.att.com [135.47.91.179]) by alpi131.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 5 Feb 2018 17:11:01 GMT Received: from zlp30484.vci.att.com (zlp30484.vci.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by zlp30484.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 3FE354000368; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 17:11:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com (unknown [130.8.218.154]) by zlp30484.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTPS id 2C21A4000361; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 17:11:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.5.51]) by GAALPA1MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.218.154]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 12:11:00 -0500 From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: Fred Baker CC: "7riw77@gmail.com" <7riw77@gmail.com>, David Farmer , "V6 Ops List" Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs Thread-Index: AQHThAkt88VuzkKF+0q3aAiqoqlIRgJ9OQ9TASu4nfEBwpaRTQKGdYJTAomRt9CiC9Z1cIEc4/sAgBUtWICAAEg5gIAAMvKAgADh2ICAAvjDEIAAZyqA//+xntA= Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 17:10:59 +0000 Message-ID: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0FB39@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0F9A6@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <8395CFA7-D7BA-405F-94C8-3E2406B4D1CF@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8395CFA7-D7BA-405F-94C8-3E2406B4D1CF@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.10.223.241] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2018-02-05_04:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1802050215 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 17:11:30 -0000 > Thanks for this. It's cogent and to the point. >=20 > I do have a question. The authors are from LinkedIn and Comcast. How > would you interpret that fact in the context of the facts you point out? That's for them to say what their motivation is. But Comcast and LinkedIn a= re both known to be at the forefront of IPv6 deployment. I wouldn't classif= y LinkedIn as an ISP of any sort or a core/transit network provider or an I= XC. If LinkedIn or Comcast thinks there is a need for requirements for data= center network routers, that would be interesting to know. Most major data= center operators I know have gone to using SDN (with open source router so= ftware on commodity hardware). I don't recall having heard Comcast say they= need a router requirements document to help with their access/regional net= work IPv6 deployment (which seems to be doing quite well). I don't know abo= ut any internal corporate networks they may have -- which I would classify = as "enterprise networks". Personally, I haven't heard any of the people working on any of my employer= 's access/regional/core networks asking for a new IETF router requirements = document (the IPv6 metrics for wireline and wireless access are looking pre= tty good with non-IPv6 traffic due to hosts/wireless UEs/retail CE routers = and not the network routers, and no issues in the core; router requirements= would have no impact on use of 6rd in legacy DSL access). I have not yet n= oticed IPv6 in the corporate (enterprise) network that I attach to for work= . I've also heard from some people who work with enterprise customers that = adoption among those customers is a painfully slow crawl. Clearly, there is a population with a need. If we focus on helping that pop= ulation, it might be possible to drive results. Barbara > > On Feb 5, 2018, at 7:34 AM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: > > > >>> The primary focus is routers for enterprise or carrier use, however > >>> most of the features also have broad applicability to all routers. > > > > I see a real need for recommendations for enterprise routers. I also be= lieve > that any attempts to broaden the scope beyond that will both slow down > producing such recommendations and force the recommendations to be > watered down to the point whether they are significantly less useful to > enterprise networks. > > Here is why I think most other router types either don't need or will i= gnore > these recommendations: > > - CE routers are covered by RFC 7084 > > - telco ISPs aren't asking for this (for their own ISP networks) and > > tend to use BBF documents; any who are waiting until IETF produces > > router requirements for them need to reconsider their strategy > > - cable ISPs aren't asking for this (for their own ISP networks) and > > tend to use CableLabs docs; any who are waiting until IETF produces > > router requirements for them need to reconsider their strategy > > - wireless ISPs aren't asking for this and tend to use 3GPP docs; any > > who are waiting until IETF produces router requirements for them need > > to reconsider their strategy > > - transit/core network providers aren't asking for this and have > > already got IPv6 running (and if they haven't, there's no excuse, > > because the equipment is there); they also don't tend to do address > > assignment (no hosts on those networks) so requirements for DHCPv6 and > > SLAAC aren't needed; a lot of this equipment is done with SDN now; > > this is also true of a lot of the "regional network" part of ISP > > networks > > - IXCs don't tend to do address assignment and seem to have IPv6 in > > place; any that don't have IPv6 -- it's not for lack of requirements; > > a lot of them have gone to SDN > > > > As for SDN: If you think an open source project doing SDN code is missi= ng > some IPv6 functionality, it might be easier to contribute the code, rathe= r than > write an RFC and see if some random person says "OMG, the IETF is saying > do this; no-one else is writing this code so I guess I better do it". > > > > We need to get enterprises transitioning. Whatever IETF can do to help > that specific audience would be appreciated. > > Barbara > > > > _______________________________________________ > > v6ops mailing list > > v6ops@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops From nobody Mon Feb 5 13:52:46 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FE512DA13 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 13:52:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id doU9NFfLrL14 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 13:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x229.google.com (mail-pg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2CB512DA08 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 13:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x229.google.com with SMTP id 141so9145803pgd.8 for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 13:52:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=QD6gxOQEtZvc3LNxtQQK8XMy1K3qQr0YutlpgcOI54I=; b=QXXePgWZZLancipViN3DLj1d2B0az1AuRwQEt/fZwKkOWWC5RMz4f71Cddl1M1LEz2 WKX51jNb9G/q5x9PXenVJ4MAMGDQfZsBRvKMX/y5m9vELkV4JBiZW3sDpMGAgnfRsfaR DW2SD3XdpYXNWWL11HVRsRU3bmQCM0qFDLttGLePEkwTSAFexDcuaHwhHvaKiQuvHglr 8T32lbf7oYljprYzU7oaPuiyWoWOHmU4+SdX9wyt4dmS/+jPBuBTZe/E1WS+mIYU2UcR pRP4Wcl4GDuxJWkmhViOfbi7IzsIx5OhAl5dfMobxV99umb5hYGHaxzcRNzUoYOS8DID Q8KQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=QD6gxOQEtZvc3LNxtQQK8XMy1K3qQr0YutlpgcOI54I=; b=N7hY6WJD7xEqhsDoqZZodJjWV84CZfjI77g1KOheEDnEskfYdZqqSYVG5YmvigYnoV 1mn7s3CNE60A/03dzLM1eCbxA0UFxEQ0vVS1IJky48RslBmY3P2GyiXqgXyTKvBtuVKr 7HT+8lZiaErnE8SpGwraRCiNEGq3RY5AbDS+7D9g8qaCdteJ5S/l+3VxvE6XKbqWW75P Xiw1ykV1WYPi25kPnD2PX2FtDMH1g66Cjlz6YjJbmjWYBTqaAjrOVQngi37DxkbYkqAN fdLCXU4lrPCyd2YafQkaY9BhcaC5DgN0L1I0Q0x7bjgUhDbG0ZivnP0aAUY0ScrZO/8H M+Cw== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPBp8E475Hn/0FQNfzVu5WJ2gudwIqwUwQh09jqI1c7GPKgNO02s v4jhw/x3HjSYyFx/FDGVuk4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225+H46ucPdTqnTVDOTdM4iLvDUKXXERqxD/m74tmyaQA7lzGf0YlcXXugburQsM/pRk33hZhQ== X-Received: by 10.101.80.130 with SMTP id r2mr161999pgp.107.1517867553499; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 13:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.224.219] ([209.97.127.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q14sm13984346pgt.53.2018.02.05.13.52.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 05 Feb 2018 13:52:32 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D00C2971-DC16-4C8B-86AD-686F5368B769"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 13:52:31 -0800 In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0FB39@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> Cc: Bob Hinden , V6 Ops List To: "STARK, BARBARA H" References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0F9A6@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <8395CFA7-D7BA-405F-94C8-3E2406B4D1CF@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0FB39@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 21:52:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D00C2971-DC16-4C8B-86AD-686F5368B769 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Barbara, > On Feb 5, 2018, at 9:10 AM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >=20 >> Thanks for this. It's cogent and to the point. >>=20 >> I do have a question. The authors are from LinkedIn and Comcast. How >> would you interpret that fact in the context of the facts you point = out? >=20 > That's for them to say what their motivation is. But Comcast and = LinkedIn are both known to be at the forefront of IPv6 deployment. I = wouldn't classify LinkedIn as an ISP of any sort or a core/transit = network provider or an IXC. If LinkedIn or Comcast thinks there is a = need for requirements for data center network routers, that would be = interesting to know. Most major data center operators I know have gone = to using SDN (with open source router software on commodity hardware). I = don't recall having heard Comcast say they need a router requirements = document to help with their access/regional network IPv6 deployment = (which seems to be doing quite well). I don't know about any internal = corporate networks they may have -- which I would classify as = "enterprise networks". >=20 > Personally, I haven't heard any of the people working on any of my = employer's access/regional/core networks asking for a new IETF router = requirements document (the IPv6 metrics for wireline and wireless access = are looking pretty good with non-IPv6 traffic due to hosts/wireless = UEs/retail CE routers and not the network routers, and no issues in the = core; router requirements would have no impact on use of 6rd in legacy = DSL access). I have not yet noticed IPv6 in the corporate (enterprise) = network that I attach to for work. I've also heard from some people who = work with enterprise customers that adoption among those customers is a = painfully slow crawl. I agree with what you have written. It=E2=80=99s not clear to me what = the need is here. Regarding enterprise deployment, I would be surprised = if the reason for slow IPv6 adoption has anything to do with the IETF = writing a document describing what an IPv6 enterprise router should = implement. If someone has evidence to show it is needed, I would like = to see it too. Thanks, Bob >=20 > Clearly, there is a population with a need. If we focus on helping = that population, it might be possible to drive results. > Barbara >=20 >>> On Feb 5, 2018, at 7:34 AM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >>>=20 >>>>> The primary focus is routers for enterprise or carrier use, = however >>>>> most of the features also have broad applicability to all routers. >>>=20 >>> I see a real need for recommendations for enterprise routers. I also = believe >> that any attempts to broaden the scope beyond that will both slow = down >> producing such recommendations and force the recommendations to be >> watered down to the point whether they are significantly less useful = to >> enterprise networks. >>> Here is why I think most other router types either don't need or = will ignore >> these recommendations: >>> - CE routers are covered by RFC 7084 >>> - telco ISPs aren't asking for this (for their own ISP networks) and >>> tend to use BBF documents; any who are waiting until IETF produces >>> router requirements for them need to reconsider their strategy >>> - cable ISPs aren't asking for this (for their own ISP networks) and >>> tend to use CableLabs docs; any who are waiting until IETF produces >>> router requirements for them need to reconsider their strategy >>> - wireless ISPs aren't asking for this and tend to use 3GPP docs; = any >>> who are waiting until IETF produces router requirements for them = need >>> to reconsider their strategy >>> - transit/core network providers aren't asking for this and have >>> already got IPv6 running (and if they haven't, there's no excuse, >>> because the equipment is there); they also don't tend to do address >>> assignment (no hosts on those networks) so requirements for DHCPv6 = and >>> SLAAC aren't needed; a lot of this equipment is done with SDN now; >>> this is also true of a lot of the "regional network" part of ISP >>> networks >>> - IXCs don't tend to do address assignment and seem to have IPv6 in >>> place; any that don't have IPv6 -- it's not for lack of = requirements; >>> a lot of them have gone to SDN >>>=20 >>> As for SDN: If you think an open source project doing SDN code is = missing >> some IPv6 functionality, it might be easier to contribute the code, = rather than >> write an RFC and see if some random person says "OMG, the IETF is = saying >> do this; no-one else is writing this code so I guess I better do it". >>>=20 >>> We need to get enterprises transitioning. Whatever IETF can do to = help >> that specific audience would be appreciated. >>> Barbara >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> v6ops mailing list >>> v6ops@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >=20 > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops --Apple-Mail=_D00C2971-DC16-4C8B-86AD-686F5368B769 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAlp40h8ACgkQrut0EXfn u6hmAAf/fVTbSldTTNLAEMWAoLxzCUIpZhIEKW/H9pU8gPu0s7SQzZg5EDKljC/F 6AQtpYF3NJccJj9FUrc4nockN6ScoaX3IApOicjVtQLxAmIw/zSr49ZuuspEA9XX jSbbSmfNGhONoo7vVFhgkRNJo/fqOVZPKTY75xhsAeiYBGeOvKZx0yflJWtb3ubE HlZAydUEezT/u4xLGVFE8UzbADFOZgjO3Wb0nKJQrqkbDoxdyDJ/+BG9k9/AMBP1 oVoXRUYC5er48FFF3ooJQH/UCOMkFayNwnVausZ5QYmRODdxvQzvTrXP6FrTutqP jTGLj4d5sEsXv9jRWS6qp4uG/uzePg== =vh/4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_D00C2971-DC16-4C8B-86AD-686F5368B769-- From nobody Mon Feb 5 14:45:21 2018 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03614127871 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 14:45:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id saskjA14bNQ7 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 14:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x231.google.com (mail-pg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80D95126DFB for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 14:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x231.google.com with SMTP id u1so19880605pgr.0 for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 14:45:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=rKmkayF61zAekr/M/IjKUL9EK5a6EhG6nj5Kx+7g4Xo=; b=DZtoR9tupqt2cN/wdCfi68N3oGcsruG9ed9Qj2XfwBg6lYpKxNatDAsg59IQ121RoA 4dPrR1vPy7vK7E8JrtUXke8r748ttqve4EYkcGPNc1vdbVsq3+DYcV1/kfbr0r//M0tX cPKBfE7HiWWEnCYl75QEfjSYN3XNZNEB2AvchmWLactfMcG0800PzU6Da9u+/AUfw27N bij1lB9ZEFgqDG+mCFEbKA1O+vxLvvNwbFjl7PdCBvmrVJCmSDML5ouc7dv8NdieKR4K TpceW07A4HF+KHk/MeGTBrmi4Ft6ntG+Sie8fmAF/dNODYlisUmJJfXLqTIgmcsYVjtZ OFHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=rKmkayF61zAekr/M/IjKUL9EK5a6EhG6nj5Kx+7g4Xo=; b=K+SmTGyq30TVxiLXF0/T3dZLbh5FswtkdxSikgY2ZVICKw8p7583U0qxi/83OsYBqA w8y7ro6L5/CX39Aqq7rRocdmMK1URPzvTdXFkQNw3XUcXBoxoCmfgjG9TnLMc7p1U+U3 gN2iJ9/oSMx68S1rMoOhJsnQlmHVo/SYYKPutsaxoblS+5D+A4qn8COhJ1PYsVO+fOhr xvnQm5ls/FOfR/m7XvuOWnl8pcNxT2JRAbDlhGS42aJ9ON4AYxbnUm/xRX3d5vkvqEQj 7wV8yIhXxTlTFDOWGSgX2hL8RxjjUMEgrxCAvbfZWsrInDSFPZ6m8LTK327nnQ13iqy6 Bjow== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPBLh8gbXasQ8GYqOiyMZGTNIlnoawp7UJLr5EsJhL1zn6/65nHV ZIRtPvGyCgB5O41NBII1Oio= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224GSC4J7sRCV16pn9zdSbpxqxao+7UokpYKRwza9KKNouqpZkhrCNtrkdgRldO6csbvxdd98g== X-Received: by 10.98.218.18 with SMTP id c18mr336425pfh.214.1517870717077; Mon, 05 Feb 2018 14:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from Russ (50-204-119-2-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [50.204.119.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 27sm6112561pfj.173.2018.02.05.14.45.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 05 Feb 2018 14:45:16 -0800 (PST) From: <7riw77@gmail.com> To: "'STARK, BARBARA H'" , "'Fred Baker'" Cc: "'David Farmer'" , "'V6 Ops List'" References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0F9A6@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <8395CFA7-D7BA-405F-94C8-3E2406B4D1CF@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0FB39@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0FB39@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 17:45:17 -0500 Message-ID: <050901d39ed2$ff5e7ea0$fe1b7be0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJhq6FqXfQxKPsi9uY8X1ef5BV5bQJ9OQ9TASu4nfEBwpaRTQKGdYJTAomRt9ACySBY7wIa3tiUAel2dO8BzIfi5QLM+yz4AfN7nXcC9HlyGAKhl5sHAZIDGBOhglhbQA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2018 22:45:19 -0000 > That's for them to say what their motivation is. But Comcast and = LinkedIn are > both known to be at the forefront of IPv6 deployment. I wouldn't = classify > LinkedIn as an ISP of any sort or a core/transit network provider or = an IXC. If I would classify LinkedIn as a content provider -- it's a different sort = of network, but it's not "enterprise" (although, honestly, I really = dislike the entire "enterprise/provider" divide -- it generally just = muddies the water, and I find it adds almost no useful information in = any conversation I've been involved in for the last 3-4 years).=20 > LinkedIn or Comcast thinks there is a need for requirements for data = center > network routers, that would be interesting to know. Most major data = center > operators I know have gone to using SDN (with open source router = software > on commodity hardware).=20 There is some confusion between "SDN" and "disaggregated" in the air = around the networking world. We need to clarify these somewhat. SDN has = a specific meaning: centralizing the discovery of reachable destinations = and topology, and centralizing the calculation of loop free paths = through the network, in whole or in part. White box + some mixture of = sourced and open source are not SDN. Most large scale data center = fabrics are disaggregated, and most have some sort of SDN component = (openfabric, which is what LinkedIn is working on, is no exception = here). But none of this seems to have anything to with IPv6.=20 > have no impact on use of 6rd in legacy DSL access). I have not yet = noticed IPv6 > in the corporate (enterprise) network that I attach to for work. I've = also heard > from some people who work with enterprise customers that adoption = among > those customers is a painfully slow crawl. This brings me to two points... First, folks who run their network primarily on vendor driven gear and = architectures are struggling to consume IPv6. This document might be = helpful for them. Second, the point was not to address any specific segment of any market, = but rather to provide a helpful review of how the architecture has = changed, put some "lessons learned" out there, and provide a helpful = list of "if you are a vendor, and you are building software that = purports to route IPv6 packets, these are the things you should really = think about including." Essentially, there are two schools of thought I'm seeing in discussing = this document: The first school of thought says "every IPv6 deployment, and every piece = of software designed for IPv6, is a unique snowflake; there are no = common features or requirements we can agree on; people just need to get = with the program and know what they are doing -- and if they don't, too = bad for them (they need to rethink their business strategy)."=20 The second school of thought says, "when I buy a router that claims to = run IPv6, I want to be fairly certain it has a base set of features. I = don't expect them to be turned on for me, but I don't want to find that = I need them in a couple of years, and discover they are not there. It = would be nice to have a list of what the community thinks this base = useful feature set is, because I=E2=80=99m not perfect, and I can't = think of everything, nor does my experience rise to the level of the = entire community's experience." It could be that we are, in fact, seeing slower adoption of IPv6 because = we seem to have adopted the first school of thought, rather than the = second. =F0=9F=98=8A /r From nobody Mon Feb 5 21:34:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22AA126BFD for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 21:34:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cNORDT1qsAh1 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 21:34:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FA7B1200C1 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2018 21:34:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2E06AAF; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 06:34:38 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1517895280; bh=g0gvHALN7+dZwnvVLT4vhQKRIVDtH1rUNgq6kf2NzTg=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=oUp7nAIJijcdRFhVaEFiS67F/AgjVPGsb9lzIltDknep/c0HXW4g04Us/kQv73/Fl j7H70BQcTKW+zFvxMfmLVJGOk569MCeSJR418CtuwkoyDjzIU+1Evz1riv8/klpTQD Ox8dA+hOPM6oNGbsCb++NSV7osS++oz8iZBkriiE= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86F1B9F; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 06:34:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 06:34:38 +0100 (CET) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: 7riw77@gmail.com cc: 'V6 Ops List' In-Reply-To: <050901d39ed2$ff5e7ea0$fe1b7be0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0F9A6@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <8395CFA7-D7BA-405F-94C8-3E2406B4D1CF@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0FB39@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <050901d39ed2$ff5e7ea0$fe1b7be0$@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 05:34:49 -0000 On Mon, 5 Feb 2018, 7riw77@gmail.com wrote: > There is some confusion between "SDN" and "disaggregated" in the air > around the networking world. We need to clarify these somewhat. SDN has > a specific meaning: centralizing the discovery of reachable destinations > and topology, and centralizing the calculation of loop free paths > through the network, in whole or in part. White box + some mixture of > sourced and open source are not SDN. SDN means anything and nothing in todays world. So while I agree with your definition, that's not how it's widely accepted to be defined. There are multiple of the biggest network equipment vendors who also includes orchestration (of both network and applications) into the SDN concept. I have seen people use the term SDN for exactly the thing you mentioned in the last paragraph. So whenever you use SDN in a text, you need to define it, because it's been marketed to hell and back, and it now means different things to different people. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Tue Feb 6 01:41:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5018112AF6E for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 01:41:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jisc.ac.uk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QUhq5oIIr_ug for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 01:41:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-189.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-189.mimecast.com [207.82.80.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC896126CE8 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 01:41:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jisc.ac.uk; s=mimecast20170213; t=1517910110; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references; bh=gH2YsuYwvOBvWfBD1cKRqHkYAOuDPLbPdh1MCcGIwbE=; b=afeuMYQTmb1Sr2gtQuIScLxN8S2ra0ixnWXw9wMATTOZMURfXA9rtNogcZXhiGN9veoe4hJKZr1k9NGKkbUucS81yWXYRiYc7v2QI7fLDcrmOTcD3sIOpgMICuaXK61q9+yaBj+rlIx3cRDsWedKOuUtPvygsDI92V/e1yUXB1I= Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01lp0240.outbound.protection.outlook.com [213.199.154.240]) 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NSPM Content-ID: <2D02778D414DEF4F95AF71A01FC82229@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: jisc.ac.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e661cf10-7476-4999-4253-08d56d45d6b7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Feb 2018 09:41:46.4829 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 48f9394d-8a14-4d27-82a6-f35f12361205 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB449 X-MC-Unique: H-1-2nClNgyje727cZE8Bg-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 09:41:54 -0000 PiBPbiA1IEZlYiAyMDE4LCBhdCAyMTo1MiwgQm9iIEhpbmRlbiA8Ym9iLmhpbmRlbkBnbWFpbC5j 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[130.216.38.190]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 62sm850pfl.50.2018.02.06.13.49.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Feb 2018 13:49:18 -0800 (PST) To: Mikael Abrahamsson , 7riw77@gmail.com Cc: 'V6 Ops List' References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0F9A6@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <8395CFA7-D7BA-405F-94C8-3E2406B4D1CF@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0FB39@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <050901d39ed2$ff5e7ea0$fe1b7be0$@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <9a7766e5-4b73-b9ae-8ba5-ef392224d171@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:49:19 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [v6ops] "SDN" [was Re: Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs] X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 21:49:22 -0000 On 06/02/2018 18:34, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Mon, 5 Feb 2018, 7riw77@gmail.com wrote: > >> There is some confusion between "SDN" and "disaggregated" in the air >> around the networking world. We need to clarify these somewhat. SDN has >> a specific meaning: centralizing the discovery of reachable destinations >> and topology, and centralizing the calculation of loop free paths >> through the network, in whole or in part. White box + some mixture of >> sourced and open source are not SDN. > > SDN means anything and nothing in todays world. So while I agree with your > definition, To me that sounds like a precise definition of IBM's SNA sysgen process twenty years ago. > that's not how it's widely accepted to be defined. There are > multiple of the biggest network equipment vendors who also includes > orchestration (of both network and applications) into the SDN concept. Not to mention that "centralized" is a bad word in many contexts, and robust SDN control needs to be distributed in some way. > I have seen people use the term SDN for exactly the thing you mentioned in > the last paragraph. > > So whenever you use SDN in a text, you need to define it, because it's > been marketed to hell and back, and it now means different things to > different people. Agreed. I think we should remove "SDN" from our vocabulary if we want to avoid constant confusion. Brian From nobody Tue Feb 6 14:01:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D91912D958 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 14:01:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5tMVy1VST8UF for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 14:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pl0-x230.google.com (mail-pl0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1158C12D953 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 14:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pl0-x230.google.com with SMTP id q17so2143819pll.1 for ; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 14:01:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=E0g8TV6kKvCgw1aS+qmiQzxQjQIkuOqMYBtvE0qCGDk=; b=PiAym7oIjC99sCueI/XE4w4Y7Ixu3Qhq9V80pq05h5cEEoYZYM0vumGcEw7heKFi5D RYA9zCjtBLiQDXFMxpYcREYwVzgmt+3eZH87rc3Y8lAyGBrU/QhXvLuuYHjAlSRvQ4QN jJmaMHqAMymG8kZOm8jSS81rEK4D/YfckL6Z+MEFXZxvTUI5lycKD942GDPlSLlqjhe/ 8rXAFqkKTPYe58mBvHe6U6g/lz953HI+qFuRPt54qFhT1F9xtJvmd7atxz9bb9Bl3Pm2 x6UjB7QawgdwjJgZXPiT71/Q+G/9JXFLH0Yf4/7CW3OQYxjbsOCuEEeoTaWj723q1SJ7 AFZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=E0g8TV6kKvCgw1aS+qmiQzxQjQIkuOqMYBtvE0qCGDk=; b=L28xwKZFVLbP1Uqy6+3Y6thB4vC3Cc/zUkO218TgSlO1x1SDws8pCERDfdOoPgnA8H 6tyw6jbtlnOiaaizQqDcNrEIrwr5bhBhgAaITZO1uD7PYZ2pvHV1l1pVZF7QxqZb5QYA gFxrJIbi7sJ0on5eNmpBwAySayy7qkmn2s+JpsSF27Wzc7PiPwNT6cWvaHNL6qQP7cm+ dTVeYXBTkoSzbGJMaZHcrbEfq53EA/z/F1Iu4gEgDkgaqM1kNk/3Mcor8ilMa9Aa1iSf u6cpDrYf0eFzd51PDI3T1X3AXtpIw3ZzDyOCPyXB6L4HtmkdyXxPXMTp61IGLijjDT+D hTyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPDjrmH5Xt3oqhcM79ZtJPXmYdh4WXkie6BxjFEr98ddT7KnCdrm iK2YEXMbTlLzuRm4zwpFCTE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225S9VszyNEBAspYDrWfv+8CVH0UAQ8yKVvSG6Ea7NlPeegg751jfGYCt7B3Pj1CyctLlGyk7w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:9306:: with SMTP id bc6-v6mr3686399plb.29.1517954476565; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 14:01:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.224.219] ([209.97.127.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q87sm17634pfk.71.2018.02.06.14.01.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Feb 2018 14:01:15 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <729B8285-2E46-44E6-866D-67613CF622E0@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_403422FF-9D67-4FAF-B9D7-457D69674D4F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 14:01:12 -0800 In-Reply-To: <189DA4AB-D866-42C4-9EE2-E551FA5825C0@jisc.ac.uk> Cc: Bob Hinden , "STARK, BARBARA H" , V6 Ops List To: Tim Chown References: <066901d385ab$64d663b0$2e832b10$@gmail.com> <058c01d39188$cb3f7630$61be6290$@gmail.com> <008101d39c3c$430331d0$c9099570$@gmail.com> <002701d39c79$d8ead1c0$8ac07540$@gmail.com> <006801d39cea$d1ed5a70$75c80f50$@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0F9A6@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <8395CFA7-D7BA-405F-94C8-3E2406B4D1CF@gmail.com> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD0FB39@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> <189DA4AB-D866-42C4-9EE2-E551FA5825C0@jisc.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] Discussion focus: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 22:01:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_403422FF-9D67-4FAF-B9D7-457D69674D4F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Tim, > On Feb 6, 2018, at 1:41 AM, Tim Chown wrote: >=20 >> On 5 Feb 2018, at 21:52, Bob Hinden wrote: >>=20 >> Barbara, >>=20 >>> On Feb 5, 2018, at 9:10 AM, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Thanks for this. It's cogent and to the point. >>>>=20 >>>> I do have a question. The authors are from LinkedIn and Comcast. = How >>>> would you interpret that fact in the context of the facts you point = out? >>>=20 >>> That's for them to say what their motivation is. But Comcast and = LinkedIn are both known to be at the forefront of IPv6 deployment. I = wouldn't classify LinkedIn as an ISP of any sort or a core/transit = network provider or an IXC. If LinkedIn or Comcast thinks there is a = need for requirements for data center network routers, that would be = interesting to know. Most major data center operators I know have gone = to using SDN (with open source router software on commodity hardware). I = don't recall having heard Comcast say they need a router requirements = document to help with their access/regional network IPv6 deployment = (which seems to be doing quite well). I don't know about any internal = corporate networks they may have -- which I would classify as = "enterprise networks". >>>=20 >>> Personally, I haven't heard any of the people working on any of my = employer's access/regional/core networks asking for a new IETF router = requirements document (the IPv6 metrics for wireline and wireless access = are looking pretty good with non-IPv6 traffic due to hosts/wireless = UEs/retail CE routers and not the network routers, and no issues in the = core; router requirements would have no impact on use of 6rd in legacy = DSL access). I have not yet noticed IPv6 in the corporate (enterprise) = network that I attach to for work. I've also heard from some people who = work with enterprise customers that adoption among those customers is a = painfully slow crawl. >>=20 >> I agree with what you have written. It=E2=80=99s not clear to me = what the need is here. Regarding enterprise deployment, I would be = surprised if the reason for slow IPv6 adoption has anything to do with = the IETF writing a document describing what an IPv6 enterprise router = should implement. If someone has evidence to show it is needed, I would = like to see it too. >=20 > I certainly hear questions from campus network admins about IPv6 = requirements for tenders. There are documents like RIPE-554 which are = helpful in that regard (though it needs an update), but being able to = point at an RFC has some value, and any update of 554 would likely draw = on the consensus expressed therein, along with 6434-bis. >=20 > I really like the writing style of draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs; = there's a lot of very good and very useful discussion and advice in = there aside from specific MUSTs and SHOULDs. I agree. I was thinking that the draft would be better if it went = through a list of features relevant for routers, discussed scenarios = where they are useful, but didn=E2=80=99t try to get into MUST or = SHOULDs because there are too many different types of routers. For = example, DHCPv6 prefix delegation is useful for ISP facing home/SHO = routers. Bob --Apple-Mail=_403422FF-9D67-4FAF-B9D7-457D69674D4F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEm0rfRsOCoyamPexGrut0EXfnu6gFAlp6JagACgkQrut0EXfn u6jH8ggAp5eh1sc/cLSqsD/ka0T/AsWr7lSW/eCuN26vDa5u+15XD08uLkFtPqrH yUzCkCi0dzMDaEeAmdBkC0fYr3ig8wrhRPTbuoFcoELe/W48+qMkvYOCfLf02HAK n2mLDBnAHiU45jrX0+u5sSZMYVEzyS1jVp3oG9YQNiBTIWhx0QHY0zMDDVjr7JaN cTkxUmXXE15ZfZpiEQI0P9ZRA96H3/VC7XfBXK7DhFfmraaWZ8XN5LA/DnjX8K5n geDek4wFcveQ1hWMVsVGS2L3S4VeFXBZlHrGAmdkOVtOQBg91ryJ08OcCPpkcjEg PNLw+hLtRVUttUzy8Th3OJFBBP8o0w== =HOod -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_403422FF-9D67-4FAF-B9D7-457D69674D4F-- From nobody Wed Feb 7 02:07:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B74C126D74 for ; 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Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:07:09 +0000 From: Tim Chown To: V6 Ops List CC: Timothy Winters , John Loughney Thread-Topic: draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass Thread-Index: AQHTn/tq3SK7akDOmUuxNEEmWf9VwA== Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:07:09 +0000 Message-ID: <60E6F344-900E-4540-8423-B49D9BA16CB7@jisc.ac.uk> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) x-originating-ip: [194.82.140.195] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM3PR07MB0567; 20:VPFDG4V3e2Z4wskCf716gJ2VyWYGYQGsTvbIC/gYFdQmG7QxfxnxUQHPkSjIHyxz7MXCpGLW2AQfC/2iw81aJzoM7P7W8tXnQOPOST0ygSM1+OaZuLcOJP+gMraU1VC/nbj0SfOA91tuXZrJ4riv2wKaoAURPUpYc0MBtuueta0= x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4666f264-8563-41c3-6ae7-08d56e128d25 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652020)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(5600026)(4604075)(3008032)(2017052603307)(7153060)(7193020); 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM3PR07MB0567; H:AM3PR07MB1140.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 4KxNRgxNiL+J9gk8LChkkL5FVrMvfDYfruUplj0xus8VZIMEeZzTv9NOUnY9Ij87kLFn64K+/V9KoJ7xPkHpdw== spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-ID: <6C63454FBBFDF5409883879605D8082B@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: jisc.ac.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4666f264-8563-41c3-6ae7-08d56e128d25 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Feb 2018 10:07:09.8518 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 48f9394d-8a14-4d27-82a6-f35f12361205 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB0567 X-MC-Unique: Q2wLgWeDPkisNow20FSxGg-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [v6ops] draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2018 10:07:23 -0000 Hi, We just published draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-03, which has now entered WGL= C in 6man. Below are the differences the authors noted between draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-req= s-01, and 6434bis, with our resolutions for 6434bis. The authors of draft-= v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs may or may not wish to take note... differences that rem= ain are highlighted as (*) for less significant differences and (**) for mo= re significant ones.=20 In the following notes, the comments are relative to draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-re= qs-01. Different: DHCPv6 MUST be supported (**) Resolution: 6434bis remains a SHOULD Additional: SLAAC MUST be able to be disabled Resolution: Not added to 6434bis. Suggestion: draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs could say "the device shouldn't perfor= m DAD for it's manually configured address."? Different: RFC 7217 is a SHOULD, where we say support RFC 7217 unless there= 's a need to embed MAC address (*) Resolution: 6434bis unchanged. Different: RFC 7934 and RFC 8273 are SHOULDs, we just note that RFC 7934 re= commends nodes support multiple addresses, while RFC 8273 is a SHOULD. Resolution: both now a SHOULD in 6434bis as well. Different: RFC 7527 is a MUST, we say it's a SHOULD (Enhanced DAD) (**) Resolution: 6434bis has kept it as a SHOULD. Different: RFC 7772 a SHOULD, we say it's a MAY if power consumption is an = issue Resolution: 6434bis changed to a SHOULD. Additional: RFC 3646 a MUST (DNS config for DHCPv6 servers) (**) Resolution: 6434bis now says "if doing DHCPv6, then must also do RFC34= 64" Additional: RESTCONF mentioned as well as NETCONF/RFC 6241 Resolution: RESTCONF added to 6434bis. Additional: RFC 5424 (syslog) is a SHOULD (*) Resolution: syslog not mentioned in 6434bis. Different: RFC 4821 SHOULD be supported, where we just mention it exists an= d that it avoids some problems of RFC 8201. (*) Resolution: 6434bis unchanged. Tim From nobody Wed Feb 7 06:57:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3FA12D87E for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2018 06:56:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.621 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.621 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id icJbYWWoAgQA for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2018 06:56:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4B83126D05 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2018 06:56:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0049295.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id w17EuSKi016426; Wed, 7 Feb 2018 09:56:55 -0500 Received: from alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (sbcsmtp6.sbc.com [144.160.229.23]) by m0049295.ppops.net-00191d01. with ESMTP id 2g02vy923t-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 07 Feb 2018 09:56:54 -0500 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w17EupPu006220; Wed, 7 Feb 2018 09:56:51 -0500 Received: from alpi134.aldc.att.com (alpi134.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.4]) by alpi154.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w17EufjQ006092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 7 Feb 2018 09:56:42 -0500 Received: from zlp30483.vci.att.com (zlp30483.vci.att.com [135.47.91.189]) by alpi134.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:38:21 GMT Received: from zlp30483.vci.att.com (zlp30483.vci.att.com [127.0.0.1]) by zlp30483.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTP id 9A4AD444A58A; Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:28:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GAALPA1MSGHUBAA.ITServices.sbc.com (unknown [130.8.218.150]) by zlp30483.vci.att.com (Service) with ESMTPS id 8574F444A589; Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:28:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.5.51]) by GAALPA1MSGHUBAA.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.218.150]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Wed, 7 Feb 2018 09:28:58 -0500 From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: Tim Chown , V6 Ops List CC: John Loughney Thread-Topic: draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass Thread-Index: AQHTn/tq3SK7akDOmUuxNEEmWf9VwKOY9wzQ Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2018 14:28:57 +0000 Message-ID: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD1346D@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <60E6F344-900E-4540-8423-B49D9BA16CB7@jisc.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <60E6F344-900E-4540-8423-B49D9BA16CB7@jisc.ac.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.10.235.15] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2018-02-07_04:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1802070188 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2018 14:56:59 -0000 As long as (proposed) router requirements do not decrease the mandatory nat= ure of a 6434bis requirement (e.g., make a MUST a SHOULD or make a SHOULD a= MAY or NOT RECOMMENDED), I see no problem. There is no need for the 2 docu= ments to match. Router requirements are for a specific subset of nodes. Nod= e requirements need to be generic enough to satisfy (most) all nodes. For r= outer requirements to have requirements that do not exist in 6434bis or to = strengthen requirements from 6434bis (e.g., make a 6434bis SHOULD into a ro= uter requirement MUST) is 100% acceptable. I consider all of the listed "inconsistencies" acceptable. I don't recommen= d any of the proposed "resolutions". I'll send additional comments to 6man. Barbara > -----Original Message----- > From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tim Chown > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 5:07 AM > To: V6 Ops List > Cc: John Loughney > Subject: [v6ops] draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass >=20 > Hi, >=20 > We just published draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-03, which has now entered > WGLC in 6man. >=20 > Below are the differences the authors noted between draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr- > reqs-01, and 6434bis, with our resolutions for 6434bis. The authors of d= raft- > v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs may or may not wish to take note... differences that > remain are highlighted as (*) for less significant differences and (**) f= or more > significant ones. >=20 > In the following notes, the comments are relative to draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr- > reqs-01. >=20 > Different: DHCPv6 MUST be supported > (**) Resolution: 6434bis remains a SHOULD >=20 > Additional: SLAAC MUST be able to be disabled > Resolution: Not added to 6434bis. > Suggestion: draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs could say "the device shouldn't perf= orm > DAD for it's manually configured address."? >=20 > Different: RFC 7217 is a SHOULD, where we say support RFC 7217 unless > there's a need to embed MAC address > (*) Resolution: 6434bis unchanged. >=20 > Different: RFC 7934 and RFC 8273 are SHOULDs, we just note that RFC 7934 > recommends nodes support multiple addresses, while RFC 8273 is a SHOULD. > Resolution: both now a SHOULD in 6434bis as well. >=20 > Different: RFC 7527 is a MUST, we say it's a SHOULD (Enhanced DAD) > (**) Resolution: 6434bis has kept it as a SHOULD. >=20 > Different: RFC 7772 a SHOULD, we say it's a MAY if power consumption is a= n > issue > Resolution: 6434bis changed to a SHOULD. >=20 > Additional: RFC 3646 a MUST (DNS config for DHCPv6 servers) > (**) Resolution: 6434bis now says "if doing DHCPv6, then must also do > RFC3464" >=20 > Additional: RESTCONF mentioned as well as NETCONF/RFC 6241 > Resolution: RESTCONF added to 6434bis. >=20 > Additional: RFC 5424 (syslog) is a SHOULD > (*) Resolution: syslog not mentioned in 6434bis. >=20 > Different: RFC 4821 SHOULD be supported, where we just mention it exists > and that it avoids some problems of RFC 8201. > (*) Resolution: 6434bis unchanged. >=20 > Tim >=20 > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_v6ops&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DLFYZ- > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DLoGzhC-8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=3DyPxI7mIm- > FtpInr4sIpH7so_xlGTBrUs1pW70lUgKh4&s=3DzIp7vQn7oXpjzxbxKkYf1Wg_kDUi > zPHRO-vFAF-fesE&e=3D From nobody Wed Feb 7 07:51:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED2A12D77E for ; 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Wed, 7 Feb 2018 15:51:10 +0000 From: Tim Chown To: "STARK, BARBARA H" CC: V6 Ops List , John Loughney Thread-Topic: draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass Thread-Index: AQHTn/tqDr7J33IGNkaGv2fitXll1KOZAAKAgAAW+IA= Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2018 15:51:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <60E6F344-900E-4540-8423-B49D9BA16CB7@jisc.ac.uk> <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD1346D@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> In-Reply-To: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DD1346D@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) x-originating-ip: [194.82.140.195] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM3PR07MB0693; 20:9WNNoV8JGZhv/US+V4ZwlCBnlIAVax/wFERDC+mRbGBmBp33FAE9GvE3sjzfcIQDFHLsBPB9ZcFIEDvd8+ODFGTirM8ZLIwmUVbHOn0pEJSsfReebAwVJkhTI/5YvZxG7S+cwrU6li6R2Y/l57HIEcRKy+a41P7mNAAHabqqk/4= x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8d809db5-49d8-4079-fe7b-08d56e429bf9 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM3PR07MB0693; H:AM3PR07MB1140.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: mXZada49hdU8v6eYolt2mE3kjcJ/VjLo/3jBeJPV3kr0duMSyc58urjQeQl+UW2KZa+vTdInsqwX0zAaeDTjgQ== spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-ID: <712210D9C3704C4A9C91F9089D0A17D8@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: jisc.ac.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8d809db5-49d8-4079-fe7b-08d56e429bf9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Feb 2018 15:51:10.5760 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 48f9394d-8a14-4d27-82a6-f35f12361205 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB0693 X-MC-Unique: jiL3a7_TPZiszGFO1pmoGg-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2018 15:51:23 -0000 Hi Barbara, > On 7 Feb 2018, at 14:28, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: >=20 > As long as (proposed) router requirements do not decrease the mandatory n= ature of a 6434bis requirement (e.g., make a MUST a SHOULD or make a SHOULD= a MAY or NOT RECOMMENDED), I see no problem. There is no need for the 2 do= cuments to match. Router requirements are for a specific subset of nodes. N= ode requirements need to be generic enough to satisfy (most) all nodes. For= router requirements to have requirements that do not exist in 6434bis or t= o strengthen requirements from 6434bis (e.g., make a 6434bis SHOULD into a = router requirement MUST) is 100% acceptable. >=20 > I consider all of the listed "inconsistencies" acceptable. I don't recomm= end any of the proposed "resolutions". I'll send additional comments to 6ma= n. I considered cross-posting to both WGs, but thought it better to avoid dupl= icating emails. =20 I agree with your first paragraph above. I *think* we've met that. Please do take any issues with the 6434bis document up in 6man, and we can = discuss those there, many thanks. The "resolution" was the outcome of some= emails between the authors and (one of) the WG chairs, and would better be= expressed as a "proposed resolution" :) Best wishes, Tim >> -----Original Message----- >> From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tim Chown >> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 5:07 AM >> To: V6 Ops List >> Cc: John Loughney >> Subject: [v6ops] draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> We just published draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-03, which has now entered >> WGLC in 6man. >>=20 >> Below are the differences the authors noted between draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr- >> reqs-01, and 6434bis, with our resolutions for 6434bis. The authors of = draft- >> v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs may or may not wish to take note... differences that >> remain are highlighted as (*) for less significant differences and (**) = for more >> significant ones. >>=20 >> In the following notes, the comments are relative to draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr= - >> reqs-01. >>=20 >> Different: DHCPv6 MUST be supported >> (**) Resolution: 6434bis remains a SHOULD >>=20 >> Additional: SLAAC MUST be able to be disabled >> Resolution: Not added to 6434bis. >> Suggestion: draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs could say "the device shouldn't per= form >> DAD for it's manually configured address."? >>=20 >> Different: RFC 7217 is a SHOULD, where we say support RFC 7217 unless >> there's a need to embed MAC address >> (*) Resolution: 6434bis unchanged. >>=20 >> Different: RFC 7934 and RFC 8273 are SHOULDs, we just note that RFC 7934 >> recommends nodes support multiple addresses, while RFC 8273 is a SHOULD. >> Resolution: both now a SHOULD in 6434bis as well. >>=20 >> Different: RFC 7527 is a MUST, we say it's a SHOULD (Enhanced DAD) >> (**) Resolution: 6434bis has kept it as a SHOULD. >>=20 >> Different: RFC 7772 a SHOULD, we say it's a MAY if power consumption is = an >> issue >> Resolution: 6434bis changed to a SHOULD. >>=20 >> Additional: RFC 3646 a MUST (DNS config for DHCPv6 servers) >> (**) Resolution: 6434bis now says "if doing DHCPv6, then must also do >> RFC3464" >>=20 >> Additional: RESTCONF mentioned as well as NETCONF/RFC 6241 >> Resolution: RESTCONF added to 6434bis. >>=20 >> Additional: RFC 5424 (syslog) is a SHOULD >> (*) Resolution: syslog not mentioned in 6434bis. >>=20 >> Different: RFC 4821 SHOULD be supported, where we just mention it exists >> and that it avoids some problems of RFC 8201. >> (*) Resolution: 6434bis unchanged. >>=20 >> Tim >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list >> v6ops@ietf.org >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- >> 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_v6ops&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DLFYZ- >> o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DLoGzhC-8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=3DyPxI7mIm- >> FtpInr4sIpH7so_xlGTBrUs1pW70lUgKh4&s=3DzIp7vQn7oXpjzxbxKkYf1Wg_kDUi >> zPHRO-vFAF-fesE&e=3D >=20 From nobody Fri Feb 9 06:32:14 2018 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59624129511 for ; 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[162.229.180.77]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g103sm2983387ioj.38.2018.02.09.06.32.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 09 Feb 2018 06:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: <7riw77@gmail.com> To: "'Tim Chown'" , "'V6 Ops List'" Cc: "'John Loughney'" References: <60E6F344-900E-4540-8423-B49D9BA16CB7@jisc.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <60E6F344-900E-4540-8423-B49D9BA16CB7@jisc.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 09:31:47 -0500 Message-ID: <027b01d3a1b2$c46e9b30$4d4bd190$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKlkXWf3M9kA2hNd3WufMzroSyAZaH4QmVA Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2018 14:32:13 -0000 Thanks -- I will look at these in the next revision -- which should be = in a couple of weeks, I think. =F0=9F=98=8A Russ > -----Original Message----- > From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tim Chown > Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2018 5:07 AM > To: V6 Ops List > Cc: John Loughney > Subject: [v6ops] draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs and 6434bis consistency pass >=20 > Hi, >=20 > We just published draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-03, which has now = entered > WGLC in 6man. >=20 > Below are the differences the authors noted between = draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr- > reqs-01, and 6434bis, with our resolutions for 6434bis. The authors = of draft- > v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs may or may not wish to take note... differences = that > remain are highlighted as (*) for less significant differences and = (**) for more > significant ones. >=20 > In the following notes, the comments are relative to = draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs- > 01. >=20 > Different: DHCPv6 MUST be supported > (**) Resolution: 6434bis remains a SHOULD >=20 > Additional: SLAAC MUST be able to be disabled > Resolution: Not added to 6434bis. > Suggestion: draft-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs could say "the device shouldn't = perform > DAD for it's manually configured address."? >=20 > Different: RFC 7217 is a SHOULD, where we say support RFC 7217 unless > there's a need to embed MAC address > (*) Resolution: 6434bis unchanged. >=20 > Different: RFC 7934 and RFC 8273 are SHOULDs, we just note that RFC = 7934 > recommends nodes support multiple addresses, while RFC 8273 is a = SHOULD. > Resolution: both now a SHOULD in 6434bis as well. >=20 > Different: RFC 7527 is a MUST, we say it's a SHOULD (Enhanced DAD) > (**) Resolution: 6434bis has kept it as a SHOULD. >=20 > Different: RFC 7772 a SHOULD, we say it's a MAY if power consumption = is an > issue > Resolution: 6434bis changed to a SHOULD. >=20 > Additional: RFC 3646 a MUST (DNS config for DHCPv6 servers) > (**) Resolution: 6434bis now says "if doing DHCPv6, then must also do > RFC3464" >=20 > Additional: RESTCONF mentioned as well as NETCONF/RFC 6241 > Resolution: RESTCONF added to 6434bis. >=20 > Additional: RFC 5424 (syslog) is a SHOULD > (*) Resolution: syslog not mentioned in 6434bis. >=20 > Different: RFC 4821 SHOULD be supported, where we just mention it = exists > and that it avoids some problems of RFC 8201. > (*) Resolution: 6434bis unchanged. >=20 > Tim >=20 > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops From nobody Tue Feb 13 18:13:32 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BE2712708C for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 18:13:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dkXZ0R7N7vXG for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 18:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x22a.google.com (mail-ot0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C3BE1242F5 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 18:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id l10so19128110oth.1 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 18:13:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:date:subject:message-id :to; bh=znXY2XWszf+fIK4JMeEe1iS6E4azIrat7BL1AH8OnQ8=; b=jJRlgb2pOOksC6OMxcF63ubMF49aI0wbN5qCgZ+UNaKUOFDpkqwP0lSBaHxbDswecv 8t52Y3i5CzxrRJ+Hf28d+HcqFGGcqDNtmtbqfrpfYwhssN510qnGzvsW27CR+Z+Vfj2t Yt1PNQKACGfofcTcMKonkzEKK8UYoZH0fZcueXpHQg+pWaaaS2OwhxA8ZgA5XxqQ25y6 9ag7sEzY1tre8SlgHS7CoRT6oz7Oh1t06jh/mJnmKs0UhIT/0U8LhJL1/pmYVRnM9kD1 wdVZvx3I/rNrlTdvkDqzsHKzsX14PDgCHRxARU5BEqjWIJGuIIsJL2JKA+OioKXfNWzH nG+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:to; bh=znXY2XWszf+fIK4JMeEe1iS6E4azIrat7BL1AH8OnQ8=; b=M+vEGFod7zqQ3v31F4xjtNYgpqSTjOTAQXazxKCO5VijjlpwJNWkGH4UcwijOus9EQ ohAI+gS/7kUK7v+Cn/5PF83NRmdthfS1iSwh4EzG0fqFuq01s/0ALk/5KyUc8V8tx/RL 0/Syc/WE6VAykPhkpJBPrd0QWaa7Cqdjj+v9D4u0t4eEoWAToymTYFLHO76h5+rKnvYl vYhRr36x5eQzzX9v+uauWBtHbJFlyLBuXFHKF2/bJLU48qrqWwaqRMOG2dvxRTSAvm4R bTx7IecJxL9C3zDhlMcOd///p9VALXFo8pTaEArEiP98bxb03Ozi7p01F8SsKSBVr3pJ q4dg== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPCn2tSaQPNld608zVuvaXTeRiT6bbUUmFHhS7TxRbOOBtP5IbcC ejhU4dYfgWESNaHE+kwXZzNKOst7 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224fHKRA4ThUN+3VJ5BzKsWKgBhIt5f4PIx4AVKFLFfYU5dojx4WxlhWEfqQ7PgwP3C6UGi+Kw== X-Received: by 10.157.1.234 with SMTP id e97mr2226281ote.13.1518574407530; Tue, 13 Feb 2018 18:13:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:8802:5600:f::1002? ([2600:8802:5600:f::1002]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j69sm6851468oiy.36.2018.02.13.18.13.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Feb 2018 18:13:26 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Fred Baker Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 18:13:24 -0800 Message-Id: <7831C4B4-AC3B-4B11-A131-2C3058F89EA8@gmail.com> To: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15D60) Archived-At: Subject: [v6ops] =?utf-8?q?Global_IPv6_Survey_2018_=E2=80=94_RIPE_Network_?= =?utf-8?q?Coordination_Centre?= X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 02:13:30 -0000 You may wish to participate in RIPE=E2=80=99s survey. https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/announcements/global-ipv6-survey-2018= Sent from my iPad= From nobody Fri Feb 16 16:18:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561E3124B0A for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:18:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X-BAWBXsijOG for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6297F1200C1 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id f3so5872371wmc.1 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:18:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:reply-to:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to :message-id; bh=/BKeCcSoZmGvxRxkPO2NfZOdIHyOG+2pFar68dnmxOw=; b=lpjNsSIs0KgB8SX0vaa9z8UvM1W/nCJXu3d5xh69cw5udgBneOFS+J5XEZt3MGq2KH lKtlaK+Pa6483TiF+4JLgyW/+Sc+n1IQDWeQDkv6TwPFPLOSA5ZhGeqiRdOpStJZQ4ys nW8yFF28i8kN3ayoKsnHC3zdHWW2aDpNUteAAhk4GFE9PMyTpmeHBM0KvfpfkEEv/pU4 G+8Tk5/3nd3l1mhcEkzG2aV/fFoy251Lm/SHsNCR8xqbLRj4GuRn2ib3HRV4aPckIZdr s8QbPBD+CwO9oOdvWuf42f+6BHwBkmsgmdGYju64pc66DT3oh2R98Gg9QIgu8/biWplk D2mg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:reply-to:mime-version:subject:date :references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=/BKeCcSoZmGvxRxkPO2NfZOdIHyOG+2pFar68dnmxOw=; b=Z/LaI0sLXyTmyrTypN0QSIHwXSTRbSJrY4yd/RO28O8rQXXfnDdqJc+Y92ChE0u8Tz oXZrzcXwTOLxzDnzegmPIjZ8AVlVdGrsVrPzdBlSOqZQsNK7PuVGVvrYQsVeFF9HmxYe OvCbrflo59ZYAwXuxN5VpndFs3zHhtRlMYaf341JnWbDq6H5dtChpiobLOXKDzae6Fqh 8oJ+V/DB060RI5Nom4a/Yato0JV8u+c1Rdvgb2d5/RnGIXVBy3TshgOstB6+l6lo+OFF DNJBQH53Xk4pl+DpJTonkGewiIcILQy2ENnDe1eORjN1HWt3L5uRgO7/uEmLvYcl0BDg N5mw== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPDDBQuK0ns8iQbFdBOXx58ariJbiAB2tCMNAnsrWB3Dh8HDLnMo ar6COHw3Lobehzt3DSZvAmib3Fbg X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227kavGk9TSwjHy/GC7UDMfYrF27DRJFBDzIBHWj29VyJwPj8SgHk18n0lpLszIEDTfMXx+LYA== X-Received: by 10.28.11.147 with SMTP id 141mr5785698wml.138.1518826725641; Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:8802:5600:f::1055? ([2600:8802:5600:f::1055]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g13sm22681150wrh.51.2018.02.16.16.18.44 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:18:44 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Baker Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_90D7424F-6E00-4090-9E21-FC0DAB6943F4"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Reply-To: V6ops Chairs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.10\)) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:18:41 -0800 References: <151882333655.3746.4921527597163333361.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: V6 Ops List In-Reply-To: <151882333655.3746.4921527597163333361.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-Id: <00AC98CE-63E0-457A-B5AE-8469E29D4ECD@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] IETF 101 Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 00:18:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_90D7424F-6E00-4090-9E21-FC0DAB6943F4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii =46rom appearances, v6ops will be meeting on Monday morning in London. = If that's an issue, please let the chairs know. > On Feb 16, 2018, at 3:22 PM, IETF Agenda wrote: >=20 > The IETF 101 preliminary agenda has been posted. The final agenda will = be published on Friday, February 23, 2018. >=20 > If you would like to request a change to the preliminary agenda, = please send a message to agenda@ietf.org and copy all relevant Area = Directors. >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/agenda.html > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/agenda.txt >=20 > Thank you! >=20 > IETF Secretariat >=20 --Apple-Mail=_90D7424F-6E00-4090-9E21-FC0DAB6943F4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEctjlJjQmVrp9uMq7EhdRnd2GP+AFAlqHdOEACgkQEhdRnd2G P+CoWg/8C5stgEmeA5hp/x1IXC/Xdepb0fnlWfPlYvZN5wWO/Gs0YFrLJuuln2/V TVSkzCJYnXgodNgsyemunAGaohPNoLhwZzuMNKgJleC6h+bKXx0ex7QwGJJpxEPS tEQvSNCKZyPrUM8xTXfXRNBNzuIsNU3SR3FddlLhQK+ZseZS0vIIC/fEpDRwo8NF C90+zfuEokbMqhU518x+4TuUsrXyLBLqYf47KiqK/ijeRsymu7cL2TxPWxMzp7CD +c+qEXQVwBkbgnoqEAyWD+wmVXpupXimulTmn40IW07WnRmAUkFQleNXREqakxBW Qf+jt6vGmlW9zH7VbfbhOjn72+JdTf/Q4/Act8JviBm3v0ZViFIJL4kwEAiS34/x GC5+vVyM8e/o74ZVKvKZB9NP86yAaSlvcpUm2xPm3geMzul7EHlDnBGucmUq6X2h jd9qfAe+eH2HnzEZznf9l6yPGJO6LHfK9iSQJHsMPmPVuUuHcBixQ2+oYrRK4AdA zlSsYrnQ6wsFamNVccNUg8LOsrZNkABAuXNC02qEdOxr2K+AnbtKWBCC2aEaGxIg 3MDvzjyhjOiyt/IdHu08okfDzRxdlpexxTLfNbtJFXLcDf6cP6xQm2oUNKtFF68k f4+x2bENZ76WFx8gVdC9fyX01ZCij7BGvJnlJEG00rsRlSTsDJg= =+qEg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_90D7424F-6E00-4090-9E21-FC0DAB6943F4-- From nobody Sun Feb 18 03:35:45 2018 Return-Path: <7riw77@gmail.com> X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05868124B17; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 03:35:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.45 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.45 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OmTYCrtOS917; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 03:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-it0-x235.google.com (mail-it0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60831120724; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 03:35:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-it0-x235.google.com with SMTP id y16so6349424itc.0; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 03:35:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:thread-index:content-language; bh=+o9uc6BqtvXzApYnFhSgqs0R4JvkrZL/XAPz4Po61MA=; b=X0K5naXjynwSck+Dw7a+WiU+z/hfgcoTSaNCB4uf/2slIYDsxVj4oEUqt4yfNH7GdK H9za1PGRLnEPVQQFHNaz9ZEaCKwHoxe4m3HHgBw6ynslKuxTpbvsuwiSylc8eJl9wllG Cg1g9XjXwLvTlZSfsZiwkU4WydqJgcHTCkToqELIhjuWk8T5+f+dOgHV4G4pZQHbvgm1 wIeSENcPPc7nUSbMYfdXgJMA3jlXj2D+9WVEGebZE+jdRCx64o7oaWT9R28lR58hLM97 NGv0ng7jAv/0wrekxuB/IlDg0R9DG265q9OkouGd4ITnH4OYo8eWp8AtYVz95TzJpRx+ 5cgQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=+o9uc6BqtvXzApYnFhSgqs0R4JvkrZL/XAPz4Po61MA=; b=goD3TqZTMvwvDEKiYfCrxQPqkcKpdez/o+dQ0dtXnmbpKA1ktzrNGdqjccenxLQgBd YF2UO7F7Zy/Bg1JDGNA4psPAYyyg71LA2dsSTTQSl6txO/f1nzrG1R5FeeaylI8zqJY/ r/ztAlAYEBshaQ4RC8DPT64VbjoP83iwZS7H+cu1pvbZ3pqR4qYRNgtWvOADMdhp4CB9 BdIV1pncKVZuEwiTkvbW7FK5QzDdm3NA4wphPeLvCBs1iaw3kMmdznVzb3yHcOSVLCaO gL8QbYtukqNIMlyOl2tTzNADHlUbwLQ7GbjWSUMSONxd4lIkzBbxd30GYT+MupNTf/3r 035w== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPD3nI6PxJEdRan1JW426BFL3aoghMpMn7wYTe9bnPZZg6Mxdy5C T5rkofZ5YUXTmbk1RdM9PksTpA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225Co/UnIyqvxujUJE4se3rNJZjf6vCPWN2p9BHv5QTkhUF1wSDmaKiHcSf/jgifJz0lwKxRLg== X-Received: by 10.36.176.11 with SMTP id d11mr15167896itf.20.1518953741314; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 03:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from Russ (108-78-210-25.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net. [108.78.210.25]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h63sm18338226ith.40.2018.02.18.03.35.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Feb 2018 03:35:40 -0800 (PST) From: <7riw77@gmail.com> To: "'V6ops Chairs'" , "'V6 Ops List'" References: <151882333655.3746.4921527597163333361.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00AC98CE-63E0-457A-B5AE-8469E29D4ECD@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <00AC98CE-63E0-457A-B5AE-8469E29D4ECD@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 06:35:40 -0500 Message-ID: <024b01d3a8ac$9b6364e0$d22a2ea0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJf0q8smwiH8NIK7jteWAuR1PyCRQJKZirKon9gXnA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] IETF 101 Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 11:35:44 -0000 > From appearances, v6ops will be meeting on Monday morning in London. = If > that's an issue, please let the chairs know. The meeting time overlaps with I2RS, which I'm cochair of -- I might be = able to scoot out early, but I don't know if my draft needs to be = presented anyway (?). =F0=9F=98=8A Russ=20 From nobody Sun Feb 18 22:15:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24904124239; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:15:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dUw5d54vEc3l; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:15:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x234.google.com (mail-wr0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 897C71201FA; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:15:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x234.google.com with SMTP id u49so3770885wrc.10; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:15:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=cSEqPEQeRjnTn3wGbLbJgRzoHL5L6vyNWy/+w7IQrkU=; b=H1LeYLCvedWyNuZzEFmnRFCxYv07Rz8EEMbz87jp0l11046Sm6Dd35IQJPwQ0xgj+7 7GpYRJq3p44XGqS8qiiKhJr+9m4/LVlSY6s7Y/cDAzmayja1HPZAKYd3AHv6v/q4NOga VH2Jk79TZAG47YexOkce0fzr04HOqRULYRR5fsiDlEJK5aq6GOUyZn3EFy12/XAcBM1k x36tcWAPYXBQA5x5+k9C4j2DXmvG4QyB2oz+YmL4Hbg3lKCSdnFPRiJ+NkHFvTzfEcdN +FmymJ54XB8RAWu5lMMwpNaAplgx+fAMxnXjPXTqr6TD/alNsJlh0BA2q/iUxsJc7hOc qhpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=cSEqPEQeRjnTn3wGbLbJgRzoHL5L6vyNWy/+w7IQrkU=; b=HsfVzUNPxHP7XE9mtKadKlt62+fm1lNtK261htj3pExfX6Kov4CFs2CxJy4Fl8dDGi Zh6CB2IqDLwY8jg/WeoYnSZp31FW4cx0/10cdfp4b8O0yqeiP1Lnej+Brq6EIQNkRFDz HJKpjVeSx1Fe1xqyiWCk0skqWhSBdk9COYc3ohCK+vToRXXFyWVJkUtDf4Kx6dVX+MO2 RviXAWs/xAdn7noiYY/3vXUv5lcimvWY7JCpEm4fOYcGQA1H7Q1UOWRsANJO2JkZod2U 3v1kU+0/Mieganmkh13N4H1hwCSNI7fkkgpJVVfgJZYGdNxIa8YWwENCWN/WmXJnRczg aRFA== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPC/QkyQSWn0WQIcr5a4swHzd6ovTed+62yz52RTD518a84yXeLg ywC0c+6mpnG+fq0wKMZDAP0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x2240QBerYzfG6aE77CVPhcGfCrFGXZjR7qTVC5AyJXxNXpkMUEYeDJ+5qYN4cWzqN04OFdGFNA== X-Received: by 10.223.134.205 with SMTP id 13mr13374019wry.283.1519020912990; Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:8802:5600:f::105f? ([2600:8802:5600:f::105f]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x203sm47168811wmd.11.2018.02.18.22.15.10 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:15:11 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Baker Message-Id: <8D309251-1ABB-4FAF-815A-616D38778299@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_577A01F7-E472-479D-AD71-E5DF2156023D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.10\)) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 22:15:07 -0800 In-Reply-To: <024b01d3a8ac$9b6364e0$d22a2ea0$@gmail.com> Cc: V6ops Chairs , V6 Ops List To: 7riw77@gmail.com References: <151882333655.3746.4921527597163333361.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00AC98CE-63E0-457A-B5AE-8469E29D4ECD@gmail.com> <024b01d3a8ac$9b6364e0$d22a2ea0$@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.10) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] IETF 101 Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 06:15:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_577A01F7-E472-479D-AD71-E5DF2156023D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Can you ask that i2rs not conflict with v6ops? > On Feb 18, 2018, at 3:35 AM, 7riw77@gmail.com wrote: >=20 >=20 >> =46rom appearances, v6ops will be meeting on Monday morning in = London. If >> that's an issue, please let the chairs know. >=20 > The meeting time overlaps with I2RS, which I'm cochair of -- I might = be able to scoot out early, but I don't know if my draft needs to be = presented anyway (?). >=20 > =F0=9F=98=8A >=20 > Russ >=20 --Apple-Mail=_577A01F7-E472-479D-AD71-E5DF2156023D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEctjlJjQmVrp9uMq7EhdRnd2GP+AFAlqKa2sACgkQEhdRnd2G P+DcNRAApbO5fr4RUPWCrxpkCQIq93lhI13d8PLRg8SHw2LFRgiGl/HwqOSfomEa rykB+Lcj/ZNhsv+BgkR+yREyXQipSEgD7PrTwQtfN81VpJORSGvuXenJXLm4V73/ s6Ig85EXw4gZhiECA5n06It1XmvPVlIw8mv2PoKdHCS++sLtZV9lGDoE1FuGtS5g UnKhEFqiaa/3tbVWd/g2kTKQlZXX1sucWi2jEhYaerZEyqpr0BT88zxfulJn9H+B N3DOkO5BhVy0PjsAeuTwBZwfaOwb+8+8+9Fyc+64oQ9QA4OFwqDR29qPR885UeW9 JHUmkWUiJzV65m8EkAZEA9TtFlh8gtPc9Ej+UX4OhNCVxtrVaGI+UHVVxSq16/Fh J8K2sQSyw/+Hm9/1AG6GSRW3nasaGbPGcEcrN8eLAZIB26jqb5GZpuxwb2X5Sb0g HhWPMFldqnq9FVM1hm7U5SZIIJaJ9UdaQG7lGYGMqfHILMOZIJGJOD9WUb30k5Hp D9uaXWFQ3rGsmn+uHYf0aAUmRTTUrPVPMZzgYkT1evWXnD8Y89aqxHjy0wFdZ327 u6/v5Gz7G/tUcW5IMhnu88u+RdhwBNQ0XYUuWPdMCJVeMxHjMbemZyTQeyLHlohN Bt7PdfaZ4ZkVZDpyXnvRYq+ZsCPdVuKs8vGInd53r82MDmKeilg= =Mz6q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_577A01F7-E472-479D-AD71-E5DF2156023D-- From nobody Mon Feb 19 12:13:48 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57F131200B9 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:13:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xcF2sTU7c-LL for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x235.google.com (mail-wr0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F397B126DCA for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:13:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x235.google.com with SMTP id m5so10900913wrg.1 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:13:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:13:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.242 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:12:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8D309251-1ABB-4FAF-815A-616D38778299@gmail.com> References: <151882333655.3746.4921527597163333361.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <00AC98CE-63E0-457A-B5AE-8469E29D4ECD@gmail.com> <024b01d3a8ac$9b6364e0$d22a2ea0$@gmail.com> <8D309251-1ABB-4FAF-815A-616D38778299@gmail.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 15:12:50 -0500 Message-ID: To: Fred Baker Cc: 7riw77@gmail.com, V6 Ops List , V6ops Chairs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] IETF 101 Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:13:46 -0000 I've requested this, but it might be hard... Agenda juggling is tricky.. W On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 1:15 AM, Fred Baker wrot= e: > Can you ask that i2rs not conflict with v6ops? > >> On Feb 18, 2018, at 3:35 AM, 7riw77@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >>> From appearances, v6ops will be meeting on Monday morning in London. If >>> that's an issue, please let the chairs know. >> >> The meeting time overlaps with I2RS, which I'm cochair of -- I might be = able to scoot out early, but I don't know if my draft needs to be presented= anyway (?). >> >> =F0=9F=98=8A >> >> Russ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Tue Feb 20 10:57:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D3A12DA0D for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:57:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eT1gBvZduojW for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:57:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ot0-x22d.google.com (mail-ot0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F411124319 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:57:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ot0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 79so12351866oth.11 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:57:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=QqR/AMT0Cf9D11rFBGVg6nz0FK4yUq5MF7NfJvdo83A=; b=u86Lo2oEhNSgjuFCgirO2dAN2Riam30Z4sCgF5gGLFgzcPQ7n071JgZ+e5zcK3K5P/ x0tKTpNr5K7BIo6Fz4jCGDnItWwTS2/SJheWMOcquKogOPSaSwx6os9K8ypPPF9Klh2N wU3UQDvKqDdT/4var2yaXQkIlU1WBoOt1lR21k3D5fLjDyzt1UyIzQrEYGYIORjvdefo Eu9xBSCktjTPCob82Mj+95OMNjTR/GwFJ47p57lIZzzO3lTKE/cvO8fVPiFnc2uCDwa6 1SYP0wfieUNiVUPiBYBA2uEA+SH50Aep36VCQ+tNtjgEw7l/NH0GqvmZ/MjsRmPhf5UC EnUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:to; bh=QqR/AMT0Cf9D11rFBGVg6nz0FK4yUq5MF7NfJvdo83A=; b=Yme8DatqCmPcwqx6BOEaIkmS5iiF3lK5APgvYKx6IStvekejxCRLcuLhn1lfsUl+BN 0ZvQXlGVNfwNotmAZeyYEq9nFmVbAfJnSj6EEgngmJ8zOcCVTBhusssT8rkq3NdDDq8u 3dKUFEmYiRNLNijqgCOCb1ybKSYgMfgqyRHEkY199mnT2Mf/KpWjwRQUf9Wwakw0aMUx di9S2VySuQVgjnt0T+p2ooZ25e4VMmcwSdFP8ZiIP4VnEulVLxcxeT7rmBaxolBZM9b9 rhj9bXPEewEZfy1QyzAb+5BErEeFbFYcmo4ttADmv2J72R7kFkch6zGdOtqZUjerr+JE Avhg== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPCxJ3xdWKzcuvcsdkBD21XUcX3TeIvsXkYcsLamK4A4uZMr4bWE QWVeIdptaz5ExHI3aVuzstAoo4jb X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225a6yu/ibQdpWuYDJZ3+wMyMSoMN3w3iEsdIMGE/nKBek9z2Etq2k+j/IIiT3+wdJYZpAxlIQ== X-Received: by 10.157.64.71 with SMTP id o7mr508832oti.253.1519153024325; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:8802:5600:f::1068? ([2600:8802:5600:f::1068]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p205sm13227817oia.41.2018.02.20.10.57.03 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:57:03 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Baker Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_379E5980-4AC7-4423-850A-2F3EBE9F772D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.10\)) Message-Id: <217739E3-9852-4B71-A2F6-DF9A5BAF9F8C@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:57:01 -0800 To: V6 Ops List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.10) Archived-At: Subject: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 18:57:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_379E5980-4AC7-4423-850A-2F3EBE9F772D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The chairs are pulling together the agenda for IETF 101. We have a proposed talk from Mythic Beasts, which is a data center = operation that is focused on IPv6-only operation using Raspberry Pi = platforms (they have IPv4 for customers, but charge for addresses, where = IPv6 addresses are free, and they find customers willing to go IPv6-only = when money comes into the discussion), and two working group drafts. = Fred Templin has been suggesting draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost as a working = group draft, but we see little responding discussion, and infer that the = working group doesn't find enough of value in the draft to support it. If you have a document to update (Jen and Russ, that's you) or a new = document to post for discussion, now would be the time to do it. The = draft cut-off is Monday 2018-03-05, two weeks hence, and the chairs will = be looking for email traffic on drafts posted to see whether there is = working group interest. WG: Unupdated WG Document 2017-10-09 draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras WG: Updated WG Document 2018-01-02 draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs Individual Submission: Unupdated 2017-10-30 draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only 2017-10-30 draft-shytyi-v6ops-danir 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-he-reporting 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-p2p-from-customer-prefix 2017-10-17 draft-palet-v6ops-rfc7084-bis-transition 2017-10-17 draft-xli-v6ops-cernet-deployment 2017-10-09 draft-palet-v6ops-464xlat-deployment 2017-08-28 draft-xu-v6ops-dslite-redundancy Individual Submission: Updated 2017-12-19 draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost --Apple-Mail=_379E5980-4AC7-4423-850A-2F3EBE9F772D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEctjlJjQmVrp9uMq7EhdRnd2GP+AFAlqMb30ACgkQEhdRnd2G P+Cf4hAArPZiqBCWdM23Rzq11WZ/7tI2Kru+hfZuJRgXfRC9Eq+WDrwJDK14kFuj 5ovA6pSustUWam0ZPzwaAnZGzQft7KpKFsb5GV3NmtZ3msrUFkDSWWFTR4BJ0qHs 9c3eXqoB6xOyULJfumdbcfNG1MKjyJSNL8eti2Bk7iA9nVBv3DEoMZNn/19xDWn+ po6jgEBEI4rF05NEwavB0+RS8Kgayt98OtskECksU2Ddg0agE7cKSWV25vUinh74 RpnJWGCJ8esGSxQBlckizkA8xh/pAS0xhAcAYezrB3ljYAshoFpJJxundMyANS38 EuUnMTPonjzdWHfBwa/OArdxM7beDhcouJPoZdWJDQfW+r4gaWA9ykVXOkdsArfK Td9Go7m1XkkklzDVpeEuY+/1uWqLDh3AIpKik3yzA1dvzA7NjuaRQHw6Wh3j8FXo wcqEmDinj9py0Ix64cC6YcCJ/W2xEojO9grPR7Zd4OBPLTDsbppjCTQSx0b1KoLj pD4R4e3zP20tvNWh66ohNLao0QU6SWX9U2zu0s5rCWR/gYdoR4DzdPvTY6gP9i27 LIWIdLhErHmgqInJ6HO+5aqWNc9TmnrnI2pgCbVKNDDgo6wpAlmXarxaRwB8Fhw9 0dDJxHPq1O1pFNmVZ4TqZTsK2LhOv/ALBtauA3ojkhoJWFeLwfo= =pgSm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_379E5980-4AC7-4423-850A-2F3EBE9F772D-- From nobody Tue Feb 20 11:23:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B5712D955 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:23:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id luD7QEcqqw4t for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51A04124319 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id w1KJNak7015418; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 12:23:36 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.219]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id w1KJNTTU015257 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 12:23:29 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-10.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdb::8988:efdb) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:23:28 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1347.000; Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:23:28 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "v6ops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [v6ops] draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost a working group draft? Thread-Index: AdN5HTyrRmwjS1ZdShWOMaQopwcupAxYoANQ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 19:23:28 +0000 Message-ID: <1af67899f24b43fa87013c61e59f0de8@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <172cd17ae54a4adba58ffcdfb522fac5@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: <172cd17ae54a4adba58ffcdfb522fac5@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost a working group draft? X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 19:23:39 -0000 Please review and comment on the latest draft version (below). Would like to see support for this as a working group item, as it provides value to th= e community. Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 3:07 PM > To: v6ops@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [v6ops] draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost a working group draft? >=20 > See below for a new draft version that attempts to address the latest ser= ies of list > comments. Most of the changes are in Section 1 and address the comments a= sking > for more flexible text. However, now the only example Prefix Delegation s= ervice > cited is DHCPv6 PD. That seems to be the only common example cited by all= other > works that concern prefix delegation, plus it is widely deployed and work= s great. >=20 > Comments? >=20 > Fred >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of in= ternet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 2:56 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost-18.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. >=20 >=20 > Title : IPv6 Prefix Delegation Models > Author : Fred L. Templin > Filename : draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost-18.txt > Pages : 13 > Date : 2017-12-19 >=20 > Abstract: > IPv6 prefixes are typically delegated to requesting routers which > assign them to their downstream-attached links and networks. This > document considers prefix delegation models according to whether the > requesting router acts as a router on behalf of any downstream > networks, as a host on behalf of its local applications or as both. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost-18 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost-18 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-templin-v6ops-pdhost-18 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops From nobody Thu Feb 22 08:12:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E2EE12D86B for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:12:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g3h33wg4WyGJ for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F09E712E3AE for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:12:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id w1MGCNPc016769; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 09:12:23 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.220]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id w1MGCKf0016628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 22 Feb 2018 09:12:20 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdc::8988:efdc) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1347.2; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:12:19 -0800 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1347.000; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:12:19 -0800 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Fred Baker , V6 Ops List Thread-Topic: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development Thread-Index: AQHTqnygFefNuPSctEaGoghaWbfS76Owl3+g Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:12:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <217739E3-9852-4B71-A2F6-DF9A5BAF9F8C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <217739E3-9852-4B71-A2F6-DF9A5BAF9F8C@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:12:26 -0000 Fred, > -----Original Message----- > From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:57 AM > To: V6 Ops List > Subject: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development >=20 > The chairs are pulling together the agenda for IETF 101. >=20 > We have a proposed talk from Mythic Beasts, which is a data center operat= ion that is focused on IPv6-only operation using Raspberry > Pi platforms (they have IPv4 for customers, but charge for addresses, whe= re IPv6 addresses are free, and they find customers willing > to go IPv6-only when money comes into the discussion), and two working gr= oup drafts. Fred Templin has been suggesting draft- > templin-v6ops-pdhost as a working group draft, but we see little respondi= ng discussion, and infer that the working group doesn't find > enough of value in the draft to support it. Since IETF100, there have been 50 or so messages on the list under the thre= ad "draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost a working group draft". Some people (including you) asked for draft updates, so I made those. Others expressed interest in seeing the code, so I jumped through the hoops it takes to get code release= d from my employer and posted that. I don't know how to interpret the recent silence, but the number of list messages since IETF100 has been considerab= le. Fred =20 > If you have a document to update (Jen and Russ, that's you) or a new docu= ment to post for discussion, now would be the time to do > it. The draft cut-off is Monday 2018-03-05, two weeks hence, and the chai= rs will be looking for email traffic on drafts posted to see > whether there is working group interest. >=20 > WG: Unupdated WG Document > 2017-10-09 draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras >=20 > WG: Updated WG Document > 2018-01-02 draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs >=20 > Individual Submission: Unupdated > 2017-10-30 draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only > 2017-10-30 draft-shytyi-v6ops-danir > 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-he-reporting > 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-p2p-from-customer-prefix > 2017-10-17 draft-palet-v6ops-rfc7084-bis-transition > 2017-10-17 draft-xli-v6ops-cernet-deployment > 2017-10-09 draft-palet-v6ops-464xlat-deployment > 2017-08-28 draft-xu-v6ops-dslite-redundancy >=20 > Individual Submission: Updated > 2017-12-19 draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost From nobody Thu Feb 22 08:20:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFAA12741D for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:20:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bIwuIBmhEFPc for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 693981270AB for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 08:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id w1MGKUKR037789 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:20:30 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 85797203608 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:20:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8A72035E5 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:20:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id w1MGKU7D024639 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:20:30 +0100 To: v6ops@ietf.org References: <217739E3-9852-4B71-A2F6-DF9A5BAF9F8C@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <91661fe7-6066-911a-30c4-c8b589a72863@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:20:30 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:20:35 -0000 Le 22/02/2018 à 17:12, Templin, Fred L a écrit : > Fred, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker >> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:57 AM >> To: V6 Ops List >> Subject: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development >> >> The chairs are pulling together the agenda for IETF 101. >> >> We have a proposed talk from Mythic Beasts, which is a data center operation that is focused on IPv6-only operation using Raspberry >> Pi platforms (they have IPv4 for customers, but charge for addresses, where IPv6 addresses are free, and they find customers willing >> to go IPv6-only when money comes into the discussion), and two working group drafts. Fred Templin has been suggesting draft- >> templin-v6ops-pdhost as a working group draft, but we see little responding discussion, and infer that the working group doesn't find >> enough of value in the draft to support it. > > Since IETF100, there have been 50 or so messages on the list under the thread > "draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost a working group draft". Some people (including > you) asked for draft updates, so I made those. Others expressed interest in > seeing the code, so I jumped through the hoops it takes to get code released > from my employer and posted that. I don't know how to interpret the recent > silence, but the number of list messages since IETF100 has been considerable. On my side I am silent because the v6ops meeting Monday morning I can not attend because in another WG meeting. Alex > > Fred > > > >> If you have a document to update (Jen and Russ, that's you) or a new document to post for discussion, now would be the time to do >> it. The draft cut-off is Monday 2018-03-05, two weeks hence, and the chairs will be looking for email traffic on drafts posted to see >> whether there is working group interest. >> >> WG: Unupdated WG Document >> 2017-10-09 draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras >> >> WG: Updated WG Document >> 2018-01-02 draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs >> >> Individual Submission: Unupdated >> 2017-10-30 draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only >> 2017-10-30 draft-shytyi-v6ops-danir >> 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-he-reporting >> 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-p2p-from-customer-prefix >> 2017-10-17 draft-palet-v6ops-rfc7084-bis-transition >> 2017-10-17 draft-xli-v6ops-cernet-deployment >> 2017-10-09 draft-palet-v6ops-464xlat-deployment >> 2017-08-28 draft-xu-v6ops-dslite-redundancy >> >> Individual Submission: Updated >> 2017-12-19 draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost > > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > From nobody Mon Feb 26 07:22:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C39126DFB for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:22:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7ZQ04yddiC5Z for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:22:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr50128.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.5.128]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8599126FDC for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:22:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=lZsuqvQeK+c76NbyprPY5lCMIZFGMU00msFsK4bkaJE=; b=axqdxAA8Vso9FAUu/CgY6Bpl+EfMre/6heQ6JewdhetEZXxVQBjEovGJVKS30OHWj8lTA2n/3fYArJGkzhb99MQQtqKELHPxUAed2iSuhE5OLFxZR8bVPP/L6xQUBgbfEKm8DxlfK4eylLACW2eBN/u1CEipB2JoyyAn0c1AHyc= Received: from AM5PR0701MB2836.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.168.155.139) by AM5PR0701MB2467.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.169.153.135) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.548.6; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:22:14 +0000 Received: from AM5PR0701MB2836.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e028:23b2:750d:dd2b]) by AM5PR0701MB2836.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e028:23b2:750d:dd2b%4]) with mapi id 15.20.0548.011; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:22:14 +0000 From: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" To: Fred Baker , V6 Ops List Thread-Topic: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development Thread-Index: AQHTqnygbKP7AMmteUaI0tYoxDZ5IKO21MLw Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:22:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <217739E3-9852-4B71-A2F6-DF9A5BAF9F8C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <217739E3-9852-4B71-A2F6-DF9A5BAF9F8C@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2a02:1810:4d67:a00:b8f8:1a7f:2d93:6468] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Yuf6a4GcUJBgvWe6E2ot3/Q6Z1oi5YafBtZOfXxLTsWmUXr2i8+iq0wf/0HVkEEFIz+FYGb5jy8N61gu+PYVBl8sp5xxByIW3GD8iu0tMRi6EYbMMCgPUxBnQpwFRTzA2V7ar9CBgbpePo7JOGN0gtplO48fE7Hg8+OFDVJqLIsqcboC5MHuYr+vAPxoqCB9SRIztgan4Qhmjutcus5isQ== spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8c587b4e-2e9d-4d04-7729-08d57d2cb6fa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Feb 2018 15:22:14.3252 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5PR0701MB2467 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:22:20 -0000 Hi Fred, Chairs, We would like to ask a slot to discuss new draft ' draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv= 6-alt-mark' regarding passive flow measurements in native IPv6 networks usi= ng IPv6 tunnel structures (i.e. SRv6). The presenter for the slot will be G= uiseppe Fioccola. Name: draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark Revision: 00 Title: IPv6 Performance Measurement with Alternate Marking Method URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fioccola-v6ops-i= pv6-alt-mark-00.txt Abstract: This document describes how the alternate marking method can be used as the passive performance measurement method in an IPv6 domain, and will discuss the strengths and the weaknesses of the implementation options available to network operations. G/ -----Original Message----- From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 19:57 To: V6 Ops List Subject: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development The chairs are pulling together the agenda for IETF 101. We have a proposed talk from Mythic Beasts, which is a data center operatio= n that is focused on IPv6-only operation using Raspberry Pi platforms (they= have IPv4 for customers, but charge for addresses, where IPv6 addresses ar= e free, and they find customers willing to go IPv6-only when money comes in= to the discussion), and two working group drafts. Fred Templin has been sug= gesting draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost as a working group draft, but we see lit= tle responding discussion, and infer that the working group doesn't find en= ough of value in the draft to support it. If you have a document to update (Jen and Russ, that's you) or a new docume= nt to post for discussion, now would be the time to do it. The draft cut-of= f is Monday 2018-03-05, two weeks hence, and the chairs will be looking for= email traffic on drafts posted to see whether there is working group inter= est. WG: Unupdated WG Document 2017-10-09 draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras WG: Updated WG Document 2018-01-02 draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs Individual Submission: Unupdated 2017-10-30 draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only 2017-10-30 draft-shytyi-v6ops-danir 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-he-reporting 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-p2p-from-customer-prefix 2017-10-17 draft-palet-v6ops-rfc7084-bis-transition 2017-10-17 draft-xli-v6ops-cernet-deployment 2017-10-09 draft-palet-v6ops-464xlat-deployment 2017-08-28 draft-xu-v6ops-dslite-redundancy Individual Submission: Updated 2017-12-19 draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost From nobody Mon Feb 26 07:24:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D823C12D7EF for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 07:24:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:21:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.26.181 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:21:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <151965246238.31386.1515320046883185252.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:21:13 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] FW: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 21:21:17 -0000 On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 7:24 AM, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote: > Hi All, > > This is a new draft to document the usage of Alternate Marking in native IPv6 networks when IPv6 tunnels are used (i.e. when SRv6 is used). Feedback on the work is welcome. > Hi, I believe the following requirement contradicts flow label solution having "easier backward compatibility": "The methodology SHOULD be used within a controlled domain where the load-balancing based on flow label is disabled. Otherwise, the network elements MUST mask the Mark Field (MF), so it will not change hashing calculation for the same flow because only 18 bits + 2 zeros can be used for the entropy." RFC6438 states that the flow label for ECMP occupies the full 20 bits and that "The same flow label value MUST be used for all packets in a single user flow". There is no concept of a mask in that RFC and not all network elements support a flow label mask (Linux does not for instance), so the default solution will be to disable flow label for load-balancing. That is unfortunate in itself, but since extension headers are in use there may be devices in the network that don't parse over extension headers to find transport ports for the hash, so load-balancing with flow granularity may be lost as a result. Tom > G/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 14:41 > To: Giuseppe Fioccola ; Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) ; Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View) ; Mauro Cociglio > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt > > > A new version of I-D, draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Giuseppe Fioccola and posted to the IETF repository. > > Name: draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark > Revision: 00 > Title: IPv6 Performance Measurement with Alternate Marking Method > Document date: 2018-02-26 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 9 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00 > > > Abstract: > This document describes how the alternate marking method can be used > as the passive performance measurement method in an IPv6 domain, and > will discuss the strengths and the weaknesses of the implementation > options available to network operations. > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops From nobody Mon Feb 26 14:26:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCBF512D876 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:26:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VV5C1ojL3ii2 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x22a.google.com (mail-pg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50E6D127333 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id e11so6731375pgq.12 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:26:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mO9pkFE8wqiE4fDprS4SuKX8l8gCDq33M/ZBkhE4C+A=; b=pv/A/+V+4Eo6RzQ3F78cMW7++cWlUvXfu4MtmCk7Y/Y6W8hW2YoLjLEgPT2E7QPCvv lVQdgj7cuPkoz3xR8cZ521MHpdm/NwhvRvTfO34yL+2SHqs8KbGMsTlTWnzxe6hfpOES lgwFX3KKrE/G24X21xXa8aLzcAkt9s03bY91y82lGFZwJ1v6/FAiQdnFC4+XayobjEY3 mmbx4ZhXQpaq5NH+CZc3T8kKEkBIGmvAABc/SRiHnGzcwpDyLRLgM/O2pISSoY4TRjz4 P1fnJBnrcm8l43z4g/WxDYIK1BC+hHTqFIxusukeNAhlt5qVOawET5xXTfKvdQsXjGve zDbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mO9pkFE8wqiE4fDprS4SuKX8l8gCDq33M/ZBkhE4C+A=; b=k2ze+SQ1UnQY0ef8Oj71tpiBEIzpBmqt5b3YFZsNOiIe2XbjlKYdXsFyBaZIOE04sz M5+WcZnIVHLdpfMLgAE3/vJg0eFrSFeceidJEUObBLfBCiW+xbwD5Yl4QZJbBgPkea2x qnJc5SWE1RqC0wMXtA5ztj5H+gkg1+2FV0fGI4tW/4+NVL4q3Px0Xta70xLopOMX0m4W 70uOEo67MTqphKrZqIuC3FV9IvWLoLUWJPYs+rmmiIIMGtpz7iMCSFviO7Swxj84fbMA fE8683+ghDP+DrgMqMv8dKNgWsbvOpyD2GVYHQwAxi231KlvI/E7xCHkd9RfvzN/gZnx 7Oeg== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPAgd1dZUoKLjA1JRuUdWz3a2VgM2hObFq2Q/HkJwm7/KLT8GIML o6xOq+dQJZMkuqi8bbWqLSNWrjfn X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227im031sNr1KaBCz4s+l53ZC6cIkizt3VuClnjOYdYY6LAV4g1TQdycW6wPkc4ultxH+A1dQA== X-Received: by 10.98.76.215 with SMTP id e84mr12153356pfj.45.1519683997499; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [130.216.38.97] (sc-cs-567-laptop.uoa.auckland.ac.nz. [130.216.38.97]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n12sm15730069pgp.20.2018.02.26.14.26.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Feb 2018 14:26:36 -0800 (PST) Sender: Brian Carpenter To: Tom Herbert , "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" Cc: "v6ops@ietf.org WG" References: <151965246238.31386.1515320046883185252.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <2549744f-4d30-76f2-e48e-72c79f15016a@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 11:26:33 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] FW: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 22:26:41 -0000 On 27/02/2018 10:21, Tom Herbert wrote: > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 7:24 AM, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - > BE/Antwerp) wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> This is a new draft to document the usage of Alternate Marking in native IPv6 networks when IPv6 tunnels are used (i.e. when SRv6 is used). Feedback on the work is welcome. >> > > Hi, > > I believe the following requirement contradicts flow label solution > having "easier backward compatibility": > > "The methodology SHOULD be used within a controlled domain where the > load-balancing based on flow label is disabled. Otherwise, the > network elements MUST mask the Mark Field (MF), so it will not change > hashing calculation for the same flow because only 18 bits + 2 zeros > can be used for the entropy." > > RFC6438 states that the flow label for ECMP occupies the full 20 bits > and that "The same flow label value MUST be used for all packets in a > single user flow". There is no concept of a mask in that RFC and not > all network elements support a flow label mask (Linux does not for > instance), so the default solution will be to disable flow label for > load-balancing. That is unfortunate in itself, but since extension > headers are in use there may be devices in the network that don't > parse over extension headers to find transport ports for the hash, so > load-balancing with flow granularity may be lost as a result. Well, I haven't read the new draft yet, but from earlier discussion with Gunter and his colleagues, I believe their proposal would leave 19 bits of entropy in the flow label, with just one bit forced to zero, when the packet *leaves* the domain. I think that does give enough entropy for flow-label based ECMP to operate well *outside* the domain. The same would apply to server load-balancing (RFC7098). However, as far as I can see, this technique definitely creates problems for a site that relies internally on ECMP or server load-balancing. Brian > > Tom > >> G/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 14:41 >> To: Giuseppe Fioccola ; Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) ; Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View) ; Mauro Cociglio >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Giuseppe Fioccola and posted to the IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark >> Revision: 00 >> Title: IPv6 Performance Measurement with Alternate Marking Method >> Document date: 2018-02-26 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 9 >> URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark/ >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00 >> Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00 >> >> >> Abstract: >> This document describes how the alternate marking method can be used >> as the passive performance measurement method in an IPv6 domain, and >> will discuss the strengths and the weaknesses of the implementation >> options available to network operations. >> >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list >> v6ops@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops > From nobody Tue Feb 27 00:50:23 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost 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([2600:8801:d004:600:4994:93e0:cdc3:1291]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v9sm10696135wre.8.2018.02.27.09.54.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:54:51 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Baker Message-Id: <6710E246-206A-44A8-A64D-AB08FC03598A@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2C8F87F8-BA72-46FA-8F8B-4B5058E02E09"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.11\)) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:54:47 -0800 In-Reply-To: To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , V6 Ops List References: <217739E3-9852-4B71-A2F6-DF9A5BAF9F8C@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 17:54:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2C8F87F8-BA72-46FA-8F8B-4B5058E02E09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We are, as usual, looking for working group feedback on the list. Folks, = please comment. > On Feb 26, 2018, at 7:22 AM, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Fred, Chairs, >=20 > We would like to ask a slot to discuss new draft ' = draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark' regarding passive flow measurements = in native IPv6 networks using IPv6 tunnel structures (i.e. SRv6). The = presenter for the slot will be Guiseppe Fioccola. >=20 > Name: draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark > Revision: 00 > Title: IPv6 Performance Measurement with Alternate = Marking Method > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00= .txt >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes how the alternate marking method can be used > as the passive performance measurement method in an IPv6 domain, and > will discuss the strengths and the weaknesses of the implementation > options available to network operations. >=20 > G/ >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 19:57 > To: V6 Ops List > Subject: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development >=20 > The chairs are pulling together the agenda for IETF 101. >=20 > We have a proposed talk from Mythic Beasts, which is a data center = operation that is focused on IPv6-only operation using Raspberry Pi = platforms (they have IPv4 for customers, but charge for addresses, where = IPv6 addresses are free, and they find customers willing to go IPv6-only = when money comes into the discussion), and two working group drafts. = Fred Templin has been suggesting draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost as a working = group draft, but we see little responding discussion, and infer that the = working group doesn't find enough of value in the draft to support it. >=20 > If you have a document to update (Jen and Russ, that's you) or a new = document to post for discussion, now would be the time to do it. The = draft cut-off is Monday 2018-03-05, two weeks hence, and the chairs will = be looking for email traffic on drafts posted to see whether there is = working group interest. >=20 > WG: Unupdated WG Document > 2017-10-09 draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras >=20 > WG: Updated WG Document > 2018-01-02 draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs >=20 > Individual Submission: Unupdated > 2017-10-30 draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only > 2017-10-30 draft-shytyi-v6ops-danir > 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-he-reporting > 2017-10-29 draft-palet-v6ops-p2p-from-customer-prefix > 2017-10-17 draft-palet-v6ops-rfc7084-bis-transition > 2017-10-17 draft-xli-v6ops-cernet-deployment > 2017-10-09 draft-palet-v6ops-464xlat-deployment > 2017-08-28 draft-xu-v6ops-dslite-redundancy >=20 > Individual Submission: Updated > 2017-12-19 draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost >=20 --Apple-Mail=_2C8F87F8-BA72-46FA-8F8B-4B5058E02E09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEctjlJjQmVrp9uMq7EhdRnd2GP+AFAlqVm2gACgkQEhdRnd2G P+DZXhAAq7o3Batgj1ewLwMM60wHVMYImA7E8hDVDvtIZ8NNZPwf2x+9OY8wtTv5 OFeKelJOeOGp6Z2G9N6xGoMKgz1FolbfjV+2DnkxiwB6bUDIK+oGUi2jla+2zrp+ oAFlO3I3amCT+ZYu9oB241M6Pd486R9fxeGwVPKZ+R7QOFu84YknQd90uSMMcYA9 ZOk4CCJRbWAZjDsDnnlGEa/Ed1cDPf/Enl020xCbeziH9N3Q9eKOGfbKHIF7x1Kz 28Z3dIyhPov9ytzHhDVl47L9vIiuARB33OkCgsnL/R35bjc5fVmBLjTqmp2w+Fs5 g8AeYE4MwcQ9Myr5O1BreJFHpBniYlV+GV5nbrMv9Tf9OiAWTN8RgweP1aX5DjJH FKEJi7U60/Hx2XPtkHE0I6Y7nlV3Yod8kvfDp0dQEFx4itTp0jfRs5JdfJiZ3AeR BrAP2Y3U+j+pWrHeQ1SElMuxMZDTiSvnNAXccAnG5/UEWIHIOt1+ntOitbVXMrtY cOvnWE9+x1va/uFMEeTAeYfDVdSHl2LG8s6s75LIXsg7NpvyEWWiXuqPEl2wcj7B TNPYxOlPMzQPByDG/RMQ6DmsIRDMoyGft2gQimrF+R0sMnu8OjHCHeFpnA0iwwaC za5SQhy87tZ/Z1vp0C79cZYftSTZ1iCuygotSfIn8erZtsWKib0= =pk/o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_2C8F87F8-BA72-46FA-8F8B-4B5058E02E09-- From nobody Tue Feb 27 11:57:01 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietf.org Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CAE21275FD; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 11:57:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: v6ops@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.73.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151976142032.28517.14035738749286138638@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 11:57:00 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01.txt X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 19:57:00 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Operations WG of the IETF. Title : Using Conditional Router Advertisements for Enterprise Multihoming Authors : Jen Linkova Massimiliano Stucchi Filename : draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2018-02-27 Abstract: This document discusses most common scenarios of connecting an enterprise network to multiple ISPs using an address space assigned by an ISP. The problem of enterprise multihoming without address translation of any form has not been solved yet as it requires both the network to select the correct egress ISP based on the packet source address and hosts to select the correct source address based on the desired egress ISP for that traffic. [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-enterprise-pa-multihoming] proposes a solution to this problem by introducing a new routing functionality (Source Address Dependent Routing) to solve the uplink selection issue and using Router Advertisements to influence the host source address selection. While the above-mentioned document focuses on solving the general problem and on covering various complex use cases, this document describes how the solution proposed in [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-enterprise-pa-multihoming] can be adopted for limited number of common use cases. In particular, the focus is on scenarios where an enterprise network has two Internet uplinks used either in primary/backup mode or simultaneously and hosts in that network might not yet properly support multihoming as described in [RFC8028]. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Feb 27 12:03:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3BD012D77B for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:03:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wEDye_aXW3Sc for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x232.google.com (mail-lf0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AB0812D77A for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf0-x232.google.com with SMTP id i80so87523lfg.5 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:03:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=W9kQhM26K6Ys34quBV4KDbdWaKo3deLEZW1RC+Onz5M=; b=MtQAE+7VKLzs8zeca5fwQD4AQtszPGzaORlvQATNfykp5nknjiCb47Rr1E1xDZQ1HI E7S5HWNk1FLaufsREuo7po6Iy19M4ZsWzLO39pxLpVBb7nWvQtEWHj710RSR7yWbYqn8 ub+i2o02ZVFUuOSfXrqXny3GX/M1g3avxCM9mJvILFxyT09gpsjxBEyuB5Fj5kbR29sd EYO7GEG6gtKlodg8ggnfRc3++c52MULYQMNBdYnMevyOxpNbkOEZtJC+EJzT4UzzAQjJ 84dtr81bo6DGuU7nnd+92pM/ddmMJyjTu4Ser0IKm+49g7W+CwuLOv0GWUAsQopNqc3Q YeXA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=W9kQhM26K6Ys34quBV4KDbdWaKo3deLEZW1RC+Onz5M=; b=G/vALGjDWaBUCfQV+N/ZpJJFKuR3S01h4oGCmouAVv1RYDW1edQ8v8g/Bv5aI2cpDW yMLLP1leOtdgXvC8ltJg9b4m9NR0eq4ASfIGQ1Mgf+94WO2SdYZbtsrw/XXWK7M06KE6 qMVzUYv8UTTER+iULQP1jMHu3NzGwlsmMnVORjDH11RDulF5xGpQMvhLBeNeCnLh0tC5 VsYhCDX4EIBG2BzzKBGJe7i9hw63harKj90Pa5kXPaxzyBu3AIBiTD1X+I70WFN4Xu9d 05eYZC1UC4lICY9jdG0/AQOuSgxEPyGMbRC4x7Z1viNMnqu7xBS4sGVnbaLhUS/wzreL hyMA== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPCNJ9v3ZeFIjCJakCeEw1SCzKyeyUaqoqkorb0L7E69ZIHeWfmj iuFgktgUzkXlpzOen+X5VIQ3kiJT7A5rvWZhZc/ylYp4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELsOrIC5YbgGa66ZsR1k9EnLla2S6gycufl1OnOcaVWcDfrD8akmyHQ2W0shb2qYmvRvLcziYY1ZXB9c+KvF324= X-Received: by 10.46.8.89 with SMTP id g25mr11612610ljd.48.1519761810194; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:03:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.209.10 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:03:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <151976142032.28517.14035738749286138638@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <151976142032.28517.14035738749286138638@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Jen Linkova Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:03:09 +1100 Message-ID: To: v6ops@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01.txt X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 20:03:34 -0000 The draft (draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras)has been updated to address comments received in Singapore. Any feedback is appreciated, especially if you have any suggestions on how to improve the document. On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 6:57 AM, wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the IPv6 Operations WG of the IETF. > > Title : Using Conditional Router Advertisements for Enterprise Multihoming > Authors : Jen Linkova > Massimiliano Stucchi > Filename : draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01.txt > Pages : 17 > Date : 2018-02-27 > > Abstract: > This document discusses most common scenarios of connecting an > enterprise network to multiple ISPs using an address space assigned > by an ISP. The problem of enterprise multihoming without address > translation of any form has not been solved yet as it requires both > the network to select the correct egress ISP based on the packet > source address and hosts to select the correct source address based > on the desired egress ISP for that traffic. > [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-enterprise-pa-multihoming] proposes a solution to > this problem by introducing a new routing functionality (Source > Address Dependent Routing) to solve the uplink selection issue and > using Router Advertisements to influence the host source address > selection. While the above-mentioned document focuses on solving the > general problem and on covering various complex use cases, this > document describes how the solution proposed in > [I-D.ietf-rtgwg-enterprise-pa-multihoming] can be adopted for limited > number of common use cases. In particular, the focus is on scenarios > where an enterprise network has two Internet uplinks used either in > primary/backup mode or simultaneously and hosts in that network might > not yet properly support multihoming as described in [RFC8028]. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras-01 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops -- SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry From nobody Tue Feb 27 12:06:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2ED12D77A for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:06:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QdpfNDI7HarO for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF305127136 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id l191so118993lfe.1 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:06:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xc+qU3Kru4h1pqy5fbbMOwwo9mSbMQBGuAqVdYTO23U=; b=N5q55TeGXTQZXl6r9vnGWeqYYRN6cBeysfTwCU05VFaqb9xdNrhw2L/MU/M8NNEQA4 DgsU19XPUg/aAIPuqC3R00b4ycyBsVzWj6dOb1A7AxloOHPqkMoJq7VymUQ3RFRd5OPp 4BtunGne4Dcr3kES+VXuMpjcrIr9MAqcxWWZhry3q/0g51uPDJEScqnGUkJGwi6qX6l0 VRgFojhCuSeG8RXVWxxZZ1QF02fAfdYwFBqdcWH63vRsGjRJG5w6jzzRhWbB/nQOLdPa VHNKwhhCnSfwFwUJ767TTetzz21/UHwWeLo5czY45p7AemcciuYd7c3gTVNVY5GVz8nf YC5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xc+qU3Kru4h1pqy5fbbMOwwo9mSbMQBGuAqVdYTO23U=; b=dW4saOv+FGQzkI8swAxBlCrjFHLxjUDEWog6aBXpGjTdh5uNDMgvV4/ELH1GqQYzOh zl8Vz4qILwIlV0rijaE7YgVIAY4DABfuEphwGbxrl53nBJg1sn+1r+utLWEsmPA1L25+ XWHlANBNSPdkHmtL81oBXC5zH5jibPM7m6ECVPSJhkm/bBfbok3i8ma335kQb8NEO+jM Wj2/FiOWeBqtBJwzCmN7+ZBuiHZ8IwqnsLl/u+J+bVh+FuWVN1uLdyuztfjBUL5eNya1 Ivu1K2CjZCJb8YkzVo2S6+jDYh5h394j1I2X/dkCgrFn6W5DcXEMwr0/3kZsVQylQ2WT 5R4w== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPCARrKqN5p/0iOcx9wNnEPBWN0K4YNVB2l7v6eVzyz3DqehSeYn 06TTQjEIGlD+ku7843M0Mf0GNpXKFgQFe8byq/E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELvu6QpN3RtbhLQvLbsdZvzEqvtdBPIpnarHvHVBN1OJx1ELohI5xej8H5SLpvDXv+m08W59No7ObkH8NaSGOkk= X-Received: by 10.46.1.150 with SMTP id f22mr10777013lji.107.1519761996920; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:06:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.209.10 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:06:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <217739E3-9852-4B71-A2F6-DF9A5BAF9F8C@gmail.com> References: <217739E3-9852-4B71-A2F6-DF9A5BAF9F8C@gmail.com> From: Jen Linkova Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 07:06:16 +1100 Message-ID: To: Fred Baker Cc: V6 Ops List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] IETF 101 Agenda development X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 20:06:40 -0000 On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 5:57 AM, Fred Baker wrot= e: > If you have a document to update (Jen and Russ, that's you) or a new docu= ment to post for discussion, now would be the time to do it. The draft cut-= off is Monday 2018-03-05, two weeks hence, and the chairs will be looking f= or email traffic on drafts posted to see whether there is working group int= erest. > > WG: Unupdated WG Document > 2017-10-09 draft-ietf-v6ops-conditional-ras Updated. As per my previous email to the WG Chairs, I'd appreciate if you could give me ~15mins slot. Thanks! --=20 SY, Jen Linkova aka Furry From nobody Tue Feb 27 15:11:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietf.org Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A330612E8EB; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 15:11:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: v6ops@ietf.org, warren@kumari.net X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.73.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151977306666.5200.7835050994187738512.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 15:11:06 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [v6ops] v6ops - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 101 X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 23:11:07 -0000 Dear Fred Baker, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. v6ops Session 1 (2:30:00) Monday, Morning Session I 0930-1200 Room Name: Viscount size: 175 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: IPv6 Operations Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Fred Baker Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 150 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: 6man 6lo 6tisch homenet opsawg anima Second Priority: opsec intarea mtgvenue sunset4 Third Priority: dnsop tsvwg spring rtgwg People who must be present: Fred Baker Ron Bonica Lee Howard Warren Kumari Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Feb 28 16:25:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 696F11241F3 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:25:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fypby-n__s5d for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:25:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x22e.google.com (mail-qt0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11A47120724 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:25:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id y6so5451902qtm.7 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:25:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6up5MZY1+TPMC+b0skutQXyELuvWhsIUXCr4pYD3AXU=; b=2L83V4GsRLXKKLx+K8ZdGmdT0zuXxKQHqOK5KMJzr++fo3pDFjAmIn0URq3XUNQkYT 8+TmgcKWH5c0bXL6bskFfC4TFoGOTDofeYZo+eS6cDuOHkKOkqoOV2FUZoUaVxgaNHPn U7Qx0H1ExtI9up0Zsc9m2ptI5IWYaMLaQRq6LFM7yjuap01T9fXqH6Th4MSwGR2iESWS 8GHXkZ54wN84SgFaWTtYbkmn6hALC5310l2XkCytuM2HXTcj9f2my5GEcnvQjSNcX4Uo L4eC4xX4Y2zqyBOQ+zxRNMZRl3AohlG4y56wUQqzq6BVOdd/OqT7xC2nbYcmhVeTDvNO jK+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6up5MZY1+TPMC+b0skutQXyELuvWhsIUXCr4pYD3AXU=; b=k+TY46OlUUWRi5kUMKs9WUbbLF8fnjbTbYhqHRr5RrWnoz9uAtgiEhblLN6rxcCv80 C+rwIydkFD5UAP3WXZW9Q7Gyy7dfvqzN+Q0TzBh5S9GD1cMQdhcSUVEomxZZIiXLO309 4cteTBMdQreGqnG95V3jWbbWm5qNYFO8Cv/D9clcAXLtXptdgvg+ONo5U5TZS1lT7PL6 WAAKSEsZ6nRuzG9nbPZHRtCov55oaNonPBDQ2BAM0Ct5exYfoUIUtGWomlQBhWoga70j Stbus/EILnJswpsbW4fucG9DlE+38sLY+5i9TefQIRzfnlmhuMzCS7OwuCySiJws+64L X54w== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPD+jsUGtWaLK48qARacSSD7Kc/bo38yDxCChcsLw8QJ1YE1qQSN 2S9jE8MzTLk4L0c7EwP0fNspeaUSywOrva6qBvFeHg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELsnL/Dg12N9Tr8+RQbekSF44ITWNbFwPoPgReT9mFDiOw2bySynMn7TMOrg22zLDtAnJ4LhV/toKtEPcqcwFQc= X-Received: by 10.200.42.15 with SMTP id k15mr33469128qtk.101.1519863907002; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:25:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.26.181 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:25:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <151965246238.31386.1515320046883185252.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2549744f-4d30-76f2-e48e-72c79f15016a@gmail.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:25:06 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" Cc: Brian E Carpenter , "v6ops@ietf.org WG" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [v6ops] FW: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: v6ops discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2018 00:25:10 -0000 On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 12:50 AM, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) wrote: > Indeed, the proposal would leave 18 bits for entropy (worst case is that = 2 bits are used for Alternate marking according the Alternate marking stand= ard). > > An important aspect to keep in mind that is about the outer header of the= tunneled traffic, and not the payload inside IPv6 headers. These outer tun= nel headers do not always reach the DC because they are removed by the DCI = or ASBR when sending traffic beyond. > > The motivation that triggered this work is the passive measurement of MBH= traffic in a pure IPv6 underlay environment. This is area where specialize= d HW (name your preferred network device vendor) is active, and these route= rs can use flowlabel in any form to generate entropy. It is a nodal capabil= ity and is under control of the operator to configure on or not to configur= e. I'm not sure a standard Internet protocol could be based on assumptions that only specialized HW is used, or that all devices support a feature that has not been standardized (i.e. applying a mask to flow label for ECMP). > > Yes, it is an important operational consideration, to document that the a= pplication domain of this draft, if not done so yet. > Another question I have concerns this purported benefit: "Less bits on the wire (going SRv6 has already a significant bits-on-wire tax because of the outer IPv6 header and the SRv6 EH)." The "significant on-the-wire tax" is at least something like 64 bytes (IP hdr + SR header + 1 SID)! The passive measurement requires a grand total of two bits and is always used in conjunction with SR AFAICT. Wouldn't it be easier to just put these two bits somewhere in the segment routing EH instead of redefining a standard field in IPv6 header with sematics that have long been applied in deployment? Tom > G/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Carpenter [mailto:becarpenter46@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Brian= E Carpenter > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 23:27 > To: Tom Herbert ; Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/A= ntwerp) > Cc: v6ops@ietf.org WG > Subject: Re: [v6ops] FW: New Version Notification for draft-fioccola-v6op= s-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt > > On 27/02/2018 10:21, Tom Herbert wrote: >> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 7:24 AM, Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - >> BE/Antwerp) wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> This is a new draft to document the usage of Alternate Marking in nativ= e IPv6 networks when IPv6 tunnels are used (i.e. when SRv6 is used). Feedba= ck on the work is welcome. >>> >> >> Hi, >> >> I believe the following requirement contradicts flow label solution >> having "easier backward compatibility": >> >> "The methodology SHOULD be used within a controlled domain where the >> load-balancing based on flow label is disabled. Otherwise, the >> network elements MUST mask the Mark Field (MF), so it will not change >> hashing calculation for the same flow because only 18 bits + 2 zeros >> can be used for the entropy." >> >> RFC6438 states that the flow label for ECMP occupies the full 20 bits >> and that "The same flow label value MUST be used for all packets in a >> single user flow". There is no concept of a mask in that RFC and not >> all network elements support a flow label mask (Linux does not for >> instance), so the default solution will be to disable flow label for >> load-balancing. That is unfortunate in itself, but since extension >> headers are in use there may be devices in the network that don't >> parse over extension headers to find transport ports for the hash, so >> load-balancing with flow granularity may be lost as a result. > > Well, I haven't read the new draft yet, but from earlier discussion with = Gunter and his colleagues, I believe their proposal would leave > 19 bits of entropy in the flow label, with just one bit forced to zero, w= hen the packet *leaves* the domain. I think that does give enough entropy f= or flow-label based ECMP to operate well *outside* the domain. The same wou= ld apply to server load-balancing (RFC7098). > However, as far as I can see, this technique definitely creates problems = for a site that relies internally on ECMP or server load-balancing. > > Brian > >> >> Tom >> >>> G/ >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >>> Sent: Monday, February 26, 2018 14:41 >>> To: Giuseppe Fioccola ; Van De >>> Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) ; >>> Muley, Praveen (Nokia - US/Mountain View) ; >>> Mauro Cociglio >>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>> draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt >>> >>> >>> A new version of I-D, draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt >>> has been successfully submitted by Giuseppe Fioccola and posted to the = IETF repository. >>> >>> Name: draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-alt-mark >>> Revision: 00 >>> Title: IPv6 Performance Measurement with Alternate Marking Met= hod >>> Document date: 2018-02-26 >>> Group: Individual Submission >>> Pages: 9 >>> URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fioccola-v6o= ps-ipv6-alt-mark-00.txt >>> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-v6ops-i= pv6-alt-mark/ >>> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fioccola-v6ops-ipv6-a= lt-mark-00 >>> Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-fioccola-v6= ops-ipv6-alt-mark-00 >>> >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This document describes how the alternate marking method can be used >>> as the passive performance measurement method in an IPv6 domain, and >>> will discuss the strengths and the weaknesses of the implementation >>> options available to network operations. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submi= ssion until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> The IETF Secretariat >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> v6ops mailing list >>> v6ops@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >> >> _______________________________________________ >> v6ops mailing list >> v6ops@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >>