From nobody Mon Apr 18 11:48:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14D9912E261 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:42:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mitre.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WuX5FTjLWS5B for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org [192.52.194.136]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5352012E05D for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id D40A96C0509 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (imshyb01.mitre.org [129.83.29.2]) by smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D756C0352 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imshyb02.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.3) by imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1130.7; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:42:36 -0400 Received: from gcc01-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.140.19.249) by imshyb02.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.3) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1130.7 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 12:42:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mitre.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-mitre-org; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=4nYkW8Kdg1sdSIm3FK1ysTOWHMS2XrtseemWn/2XyCg=; b=g7U5ObYZxDM5z5jXvhri44NeIM2cr16zTrqsIhOOxsdqeIunH5UiG03xrNtuGe5bPl3Y504miSdd1PVgmb8iWjbsn4oTWmwvscOAYa5mVp29Pyoh6V71ixq2LjzZCSV2MB8QqRhbpq6libqV+8/gg85j+5Zv3/zQIr/b7Bu9PQ0= Authentication-Results: mitre.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;mitre.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=mitre.org; Received: from [172.31.5.29] (192.160.51.87) by BY1PR09MB0821.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.162.143.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.466.19; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:42:29 +0000 To: From: "McCall, Bede B." 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In my case, Montreal is only a 4+ hour scenic drive from the Boston area, their restaurants are great, and the whole francophone/anglophone issue is mostly ancient history now, even in McGill's general neighborhood. --Bede McCall From nobody Mon Apr 18 11:48:28 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C0712E175; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:09:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5HQov-aP2S96; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colo.trepanning.net (colo.trepanning.net [69.55.226.174]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C3412E145; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.trepanning.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by colo.trepanning.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F54B10224008; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 69.12.173.8 (SquirrelMail authenticated user dharkins@lounge.org) by www.trepanning.net with HTTP; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8fb376e11631f9ddf73f9385ec5472c3.squirrel@www.trepanning.net> In-Reply-To: <20160418161552.9368.65562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20160418161552.9368.65562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 10:09:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dan Harkins" To: venue-selection@ietf.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.14 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:48:28 -0700 Cc: ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Venue-selection] =?iso-8859-1?q?Interim_step_on_meetings_site_fe?= =?iso-8859-1?q?edback_=E2=80=94_for_sites_currently_under_active_consider?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ation?= X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:09:14 -0000 First off, Oxford comma. Next, what's an "ethnical" person? And third, as I observed at the plenary, bringing in a very diverse opinion set on inclusiveness and accessibility will make us only meet in Western Europe, North America, and Japan. And what's in the queue for consideration? Western Europe and North America. Sigh. There are plenty of reasons to not meet in Singapore and it's a shame that some members of the IETF community cannot bring their family and/or be open and honest about their relationships. But I think these issues should be balanced with the overall benefit that the IETF World Tour provides. We are a diverse group and I think we leave each city a little better off after we depart because of it. Embargoes seldom have the desired effect. regards, Dan. On Mon, April 18, 2016 9:15 am, The IAOC wrote: > All, > > The IAOC and its meetings committee are continuing to review the situation > with respect to meeting in Singapore. As I noted about a week ago [1], > we are reviewing our meeting planning procedures to ensure that we have > input at appropriate points to ensure issues are identified and addressed > before contracts are signed and announcements made. This will mean more > transparency, including sharing the list of cities under consideration > when we have a workable way to handle and hear the feedback. We will make > concrete progress on that at our retreat in a few weeks time. > > In the meantime, we do have active site discussions and negotiations ready > to close for meetings that are coming up. In addition to reaching out to > groups or agencies that have specific knowledge about travel for diverse > groups including religious, ethnical and LGBTQ people, we are reaching out > to the IETF community as a whole with this note. > > In order to make sure we haven’t overlooked something else that should > have been properly considered for sites under consideration, as well as to > gather some running code on how a feedback process might work, we would > like to hear from anyone who is aware of reasons we could not have a > successful meeting in any of the following cities, or of any limits to > attendee accessibility or inclusiveness that should be considered: > > Paris > Montreal > Copenhagen > > Please send your input to venue-selection@ietf.org. It will help the > review process if the Subject line had the name of the city first, > Subject: . > > In order not miss the contract opportunities, city-specific input would be > most helpful if received by the end of May 2, 2016. > > Other input on the process will be best received in e-mail at > venue-selection@ietf.org with the Subject line: Process. As we iterate > the process we will continue to seek input to fashion a meeting planning > process that works. > > > Leslie, > for the IAOC. > > [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/hKwBYOwPkE6VTA4mxxf00NTLLF0 > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Leslie Daigle > Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC > ldaigle@thinkingcat.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From prvs=9096d8dce=ed.juskevicius@canada.ca Mon Apr 18 09:25:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3986B12E205 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:25:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=canada.ca Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3mYHCS0ONpcC for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx2.canada.ca (mx2.canada.ca [205.193.214.105]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1172812E1FD for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:25:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=canada.ca; i=@canada.ca; q=dns/txt; s=mx2; t=1460996725; x=1492532725; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=VncQTY9uc20pINHuzKCQWuCAP9sCA0k44Ulp5bIJAOQ=; b=LqN80aBsYCWquNF3K2V6PE2CopYIC99EruPyj+0Etc1NuTXjzfAFNWNz rWHtuOAtEYDBeKrupWfwMi2TZasQfBPc8g6Nj8g/jMs8Kl8TOa32VyXF+ JuhVpSZhZeD08pR+mqObdOzYiwyQ2QNVICdA5TE3jV6/urqKkgLiKsWpE CRuXkALxHfN+H7wifbAigugsvSccDA3GCddLrgndjQVbpk2+G3hvqdOFx yJQuLoOtGVH/VErFj30RyHjELqCz9/1QeZb2bAWzLoWp34D5j3Lubb3cw 9VNIe6juTw9hh/WPr2YwNE1ODTmQNq8lQ+RExDJsCpO0FlwwL9BuGgLHw w==; X-Time-IN: 18 Apr 2016 16:25:19 -0000 From: "Juskevicius, Ed (IC)" To: "venue-selection@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Re: Paris, Montreal or ... Thread-Index: AdGZjfE9sXjAspKCQzCf2EdC4IWAAA== Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:25:17 +0000 Message-ID: <8ce8f1f15dec41fcb8d9d96e79402fc9@PEVDACDEXC030.birch.int.bell.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8ce8f1f15dec41fcb8d9d96e79402fc9PEVDACDEXC030birchintbe_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:49:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [Venue-selection] Paris, Montreal or ... X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:29:14 -0000 --_000_8ce8f1f15dec41fcb8d9d96e79402fc9PEVDACDEXC030birchintbe_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just FYI, if you are interested in exploring a different Canadian meeting v= enue for a change ... ... the nation's capital city (Ottawa) recently opened a brand new, state o= f the art meeting facility in the downtown core (easy walking distance to m= any hotels) that is suitable for an IETF meeting. Info about the venue is available at: http://www.shaw-centre.com/attendee/location/ Regards, Ed Juskevicius Manager, ICT Resilience Innovation, Science and Economic Development / Government of Canada Ed.Juskevicius@canada.ca / Tel: 613-220-93= 22 / TTY: 1-866-694-8389 Gestionnaire, R=E9silience des TIC Innovation, Sciences et D=E9veloppement =E9conomique / Gouvernement du Cana= da Ed.Juskevicius@canada.ca / T=E9l: 613-220-9= 322 / ATS: 1-866-694-8389 --_000_8ce8f1f15dec41fcb8d9d96e79402fc9PEVDACDEXC030birchintbe_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Just FYI, if you are interested in exploring a diffe= rent Canadian meeting venue for a change …

 

… the nation’s capital city (Ottawa) rec= ently opened a brand new, state of the art meeting facility in the downtown core (easy walking distance to many hotels)= that is suitable for an IETF meeting.

 

Info about the venue is available at:

    http://www.shaw-centre.com/attendee/location/  

 

 

Regards,

 

Ed Juskevicius

Manager, = ICT Resilience=

Innovatio= n, Science and Economic Development / Government of Canada

Ed.Juskevic= ius@canada.ca / Tel: 613-220-9322 / TTY: 1-866-694-8389

&nbs= p;

Gestionna= ire, R=E9silience des TIC

Innovatio= n, Sciences et D=E9veloppement =E9conomique / Gouvernement du Canada

Ed.Juskevici= us@canada.ca / T=E9l: 613-220-9322 / ATS: 1-866-694-8389<= span style=3D"color:#1F497D">

 

--_000_8ce8f1f15dec41fcb8d9d96e79402fc9PEVDACDEXC030birchintbe_-- From nobody Mon Apr 18 11:49:32 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D636312E0D0 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:54:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E4d7qfy2i-Vo for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com (mail-wm0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50BB112DC8E for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:54:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id a140so129173003wma.0 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:54:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date:to :mime-version; bh=cTbIdoKPch4QGRQTmetVwBVbVTqQ1rrhQ5mXVti3rRQ=; b=OwWq292Uvv0sSsorS+u3kf7nKTCFOyt9FiC/CIGJDQI6rEqYmfadI/1Qs3TB1Bz0oG c1zZPU4//S4RqxONRBOM5oHgwXsw3m+twFDRpJ4tF5TpHm5zKSapwPJQ9ATP2ob81t6n u7YQcDR9lS0ax8lhAahG38Wqxj+kJ5Aw2O5BesA/gA99L86j1moO2NsTnEM55KPvv8j9 ae/XRlDSQWD/EJ97/o0QmxEvoDsGR7niLutHoFnISOA0XsCN8ydBtaq57jTpnTXgivR9 1h0azEFC7m5QFRbRYweKNtGU0RbmnNzHlv0GNCtCFmbqFyktUwKCCB8mtXVf7LGxfsp8 IsGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:subject :message-id:date:to:mime-version; bh=cTbIdoKPch4QGRQTmetVwBVbVTqQ1rrhQ5mXVti3rRQ=; b=H4keJdODkOm3zB8RRrcgdp9CcDVssuPOyhCseVRhRFyImWXOJomx0QiXqxHj1UXW7I rm561OY6YqEw+5ZPfXQTmJCGnx//n0yWnhCXjtjNAs0Gx0wOCIxnhbaflpe27fWEfvVD 1oLbnhXSUFsUVa4QhTKtapd+wT4LtQ8qce/me0xnyLM6mX3IZ0EzWqYq+LJ3e3NjHM2b agrSi04O9RoDBhfxP8UxV5lClY37S+hRm4x9BNFOuWLJTt7rJoG7SDx6OnGDvwUJL7Pm Kef/njqf1XmQ7TUxv3GKyCwesxRdkVYo0Ig4HH4inT0nZk1hj1OIhM37xEmQ5X7qKGlu sncQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FXRdEddHq3bOiVny0m+doD06Bb4zxnA4e1+V0GTf9SLdhY7JeBn/J95KlA5DQ3uDw== X-Received: by 10.28.153.203 with SMTP id b194mr20583606wme.3.1460998477769; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from johns-mbp-4.home (host86-157-43-97.range86-157.btcentralplus.com. [86.157.43.97]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u16sm27614413wmd.5.2016.04.18.09.54.36 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT) From: John Dowdell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <08DC5928-683D-4872-A559-F21D8504E90D@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:54:35 +0100 To: venue-selection@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:49:31 -0700 Subject: [Venue-selection] Paris X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:54:41 -0000 Ah, Paris. My own experience of Paris, as a UK citizen travelling on = business, is that good hotels (as in, hotels that you=E2=80=99d actually = be willing to stay in again) are very few and far between. I and my = colleagues have a long list of hotels we=E2=80=99ll never stay at again. = Add to that the experienced crime rate in the city (cf Paris IETF in = 2012, and my own experiences on admittedly short stretches of the RER), = concentrated at the tourist spots and in main transport interchanges, = and the length of time it takes to get from either of the airports to = the hotels, I=E2=80=99d recommend going somewhere else, perhaps = Amsterdam or Dublin. Regards John= From nobody Mon Apr 18 11:50:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D8312E206 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:27:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.596 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZipR6mm4zspO for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpb1.bt.com (smtpb1.bt.com [62.7.242.136]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A109912E20B for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EVMHT01-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.108.42) by EVMED02-UKBR.bt.com (10.216.161.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:27:15 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03c.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.26) by EVMHT01-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net (193.113.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.342.0; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:27:17 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.22) by rew09926dag03c.domain1.systemhost.net (10.55.202.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:27:16 +0100 Received: from rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e]) by rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net ([fe80::d514:fe50:560c:401e%12]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.000; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 17:27:16 +0100 From: To: Thread-Topic: Singapore Thread-Index: AdGZjmlyDWooXWrgTd2Prl/E7ZSXwA== Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:27:15 +0000 Message-ID: <180c4e39c2f7457e9df7d589ffca1a54@rew09926dag03b.domain1.systemhost.net> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.55.202.232] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_180c4e39c2f7457e9df7d589ffca1a54rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:50:14 -0700 Subject: [Venue-selection] Singapore X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:27:24 -0000 --_000_180c4e39c2f7457e9df7d589ffca1a54rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was looking at the UK travel advice for Singapore https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/singapore/local-laws-and-customs one thing that strikes me it may be worth getting advice about is << Approval from the Ministry of Manpower is required for a foreign national to give a talk on 'racia= l, communal, religious, caused-related or political topics'.>> For instance, could net neutrality discussions, the human rights IRTF group= , or even conceivably "We reject kings, presidents and voting" fall into th= is? Best wishes, phil Philip Eardley Research and Innovation This email contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential= . It's meant only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're no= t the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying, distributing or us= ing this information is prohibited. If you've received this email in error,= please let me know immediately on the email address above. Thank you. We monitor our email system, and may record your emails. British Telecommunications plc Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ Registered in England no: 1800000 --_000_180c4e39c2f7457e9df7d589ffca1a54rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I was looking at the UK travel advice for Singapore<= o:p>

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/= singapore/local-laws-and-customs

one thing that strikes me it may be worth getting ad= vice about is

<< Approval from the  <= a href=3D"http://www.spf.gov.sg/licence/frameset_PP.html"> Ministry of Manpower is required for a foreign national to give a = talk on ‘racial, communal, religious, caused-related or political top= ics’.>>

For instance, could net neutrality= discussions, the human rights IRTF group, or even conceivably “We re= ject kings, presidents and voting” fall into this?<= /p>

 

Best wishes,

phil

 

Philip Eard= ley

Research an= d Innovation

This email = contains BT information, which may be privileged or confidential. It's mean= t only for the individual(s) or entity named above. If you're not the intended recipient, note that disclosing, copying= , distributing or using this information is prohibited. If you've received = this email in error, please let me know immediately on the email address ab= ove. Thank you.
We monitor our email system, and may record your emails.<= /p>

British Tel= ecommunications plc
Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
Registered in England no: 1800000

 

--_000_180c4e39c2f7457e9df7d589ffca1a54rew09926dag03bdomain1sy_-- From nobody Mon Apr 18 11:50:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B50C12E4F1 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:24:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R70YuD5eAdJf for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x235.google.com (mail-ob0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3C5B12E4B3 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-x235.google.com with SMTP id j9so101283564obd.3 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:24:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=V8Pem7D7bbE/7V83oq6fgDYQYnBSoqVIRwS8JRyYTPk=; b=Z9Q4C4CFjwlt3uxuszjvW6zURojhwR8Z716uY4ZTetWfuz5bsoOQ1DJnijTxYa7j5k h/GcKnjbgFuh0Uv+wl1RoJTe+ep2E84HuTePZ5Fhy0LAsyCsAJcAXXkHBykHmIHTJsRD 00SkztRKJTtd4fWBgrw3vh+zr8vu736u3sb2XgxoGNAMa2h8GQJh4TBDVOrzCI6kWcsp WVtvMFGYxmF2bzwrIROtSp9kiso0/d8lbxS9wknh89fkIAUuELz21egUWzVHtECj0lom PCQ+zHgup8toYsrRYYGX9S18I/ZqhPgXd20/Fu5GnErtCDeTAWTG1kwpRSYFJO+gjbVT uqOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=V8Pem7D7bbE/7V83oq6fgDYQYnBSoqVIRwS8JRyYTPk=; b=g3apvOXvRjtHR6YxlouUzP/5xTaO3lcfzQRt3mIh8SiZIa/vk+qYUYe/aH/bmdDfO2 Gp/zQpq1K5L2WgRtTL26Bj4yGH4H53JmoRdm+xFAHapzGklguOyQstFOLMJXrmBitpN7 IqaG4IbWdVfThv1/L4ZD87Wvxa1v2M7bLCN0PogmMCEJMLbEd29qypjUc/942p97wcn1 ciV0bMUuaBBoWRrcwXSSI44d5Zno9YqYvQZJWNIA8QOeNE5EQixrFaAbNcSLGFXLRITU Xk+OM0xwDWSn+XFUB0IgKjerz3/2+xlH8gxbCSkeIMhLfn6E9JyjGnvuDvhJdxavf4OJ u8bw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FUSBRWCHG9Ac2wYctuVy6koVGAb2BwQ4MzBVUApNhDwN+UyepR8uHlM0Flq0Uqiu/1AB6GLRr2KP9R+iA== X-Received: by 10.60.74.33 with SMTP id q1mr17583960oev.72.1461003869915; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:24:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.22.156 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:24:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Hardie Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:24:10 -0700 Message-ID: To: venue-selection@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1135f152ae9e360530c67885 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 11:50:39 -0700 Subject: [Venue-selection] Paris (and general) X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 18:24:32 -0000 --001a1135f152ae9e360530c67885 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for updating the meeting planning procedures to permit the community to provide early feedback. I note that France has implemented a "*Loi interdisant la dissimulation du visage dans l'espace public", *which imposes a 150 Euro fine on those who wear face coverings in public. This includes those who wear the niq=C4=81b= as part of their religious practice. The law, after a challenge, has been upheld by the European Court of Human rights, though many see it as part of an anti-religious (or specifically anti-Muslim) aspect of French society. I do not know of any IETF participant who wears the niq=C4=81b or a similar= face covering, and I strongly suspect that for the IETF's usual participants, the relevant law is not directly an issue. I mention it, despite that, to point out that I have much less insight into whether or not this has an impact on the families of current or potential IETF participants. There may be no one; there may be a dozen--I just don't know. The institution of the companion program has increased the visibility of families joining IETF participants, and it is clear that some participants see venues that are friendly to family travel as a benefit. But it's not currently clear where that accommodation falls in site selection or where it should. To clarify that, I suspect that the IAOC will ultimately need to lead a community discussion on the extent to which the accommodation of accompanying family members should be considered in site selection. How to factor specific issues in this category into our meeting planning is part of what came up for Singapore, but the question does not really end there. It touches not just on pretty much every aspect of diversity, but on basic issues of travel freedom. While many of us and our families have a relatively unfettered access to tourist travel, for some of our colleagues the ability to get a business travel visa to a specific destination in no way guarantees that their family could get tourist visas to accompany them to a specific site. What that means for a site's suitability is not clear, at least to me. Thank you for your work on this difficult problem and, once again, for the opportunity to provide early feedback. That transparency offers us new opportunities to move the discussion forward before the impact must be measured for specific individuals or meetings. regards, Ted Hardie --001a1135f152ae9e360530c67885 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you for updating the meeting planning proc= edures to permit the community to provide early feedback.

I no= te that France has implemented a "Loi interdisant= la dissimulation du visage dans l'espace public", which impos= es a 150 Euro fine on those who wear face coverings in public.=C2=A0 This i= ncludes those who wear the niq=C4=81b as part of their religious pra= ctice.=C2=A0 The law, after a challenge, has been upheld by the European Co= urt of Human rights, though many see it as part of an anti-religious (or sp= ecifically anti-Muslim) aspect of French society.=C2=A0

= I do not know of any IETF participant who wears the niq=C4=81b or a similar= face covering, and I strongly suspect that for the IETF's usual partic= ipants, the relevant law is not directly an issue.=C2=A0 I mention it, desp= ite that, to point out that I have much less insight into whether or not th= is has an impact on the families of current or potential IETF participants.= =C2=A0 There may be no one; there may be a dozen--I just don't know.=C2= =A0

The institution of the companion program has increased the visi= bility of families joining IETF participants, and it is clear that some=20 participants see venues that are friendly to family travel as a benefit.=C2= =A0 But it's not currently clear where that accommodation falls in site= selection or where it should. =C2=A0 To clarify that, I suspect that the I= AOC will ultimately need to lead a community discussion on the extent to wh= ich the accommodation of accompanying family members should be considered i= n site selection.=C2=A0

How to factor specific issues in this categ= ory into our meeting=20 planning is part of what came up for Singapore, but the question does=20 not really end there.=C2=A0 It touches not just on pretty much every aspect= of diversity, but on basic issues of travel freedom.=C2=A0 While many of u= s and our families have a relatively unfettered access to tourist travel, f= or some of our colleagues the ability to get a business travel visa to a sp= ecific destination in no way guarantees that their family could get=C2=A0 t= ourist visas to accompany them to a specific site.=C2=A0 What that means fo= r a site's suitability is not clear, at least to me.

= Thank you for your work on this difficult problem and, once again, for the = opportunity to provide early feedback.=C2=A0 That transparency offers us ne= w opportunities to move the discussion forward before the impact must be me= asured for specific individuals or meetings.

regards,
=
Ted Hardie
--001a1135f152ae9e360530c67885-- From nobody Mon Apr 18 13:59:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42CA412D83D for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:59:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cnRwN090vyDm for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED5CE12D88A for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id a140so137618760wma.0 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:59:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:references:to:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to; bh=1+KRhtudzdjoA1utHsgN7RREFO17OUZoc5R5A7k3kjI=; b=HLtSGeWasn1DJvMyRvbP3IOyLYnsjyrcihJA7M742Q0tJb1vUJlyopHnro3kETwCq2 E6Vcnua97CDlZGdy+tbRxz1ALt1JQTsHq8IlmUhZdok6t0WJMMBgO26633WPr2rhO6ll sIAIjlFi4WIvzH5ozrKU7m1SUp6603KYdfI2ZZrZAFCqiYCiXIJLVt8IIE9lUIgz8oau Y/2ivG9Q7U6oxEmg/auHZjeWVPDXiC7aIHMMqhLPvdj+O/JmjCyNJ3MSqhmKQpQLiuNY Z32/e9XpElscDWIYpMFbik3nbI1BZedTOt4fhAn3D0ccota6+E30JW6qBO6tReqCneOD qV2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:to:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=1+KRhtudzdjoA1utHsgN7RREFO17OUZoc5R5A7k3kjI=; b=BOl52l3acCM1/Wg04e2sc7KY3qXncJ54ei/wvW9V6VQ2TScRPUUeshPKp3qAJadtOZ JUATamReH00gPz6LHyqbS+utZejpZLojUUJyjHL/5FwwSJCMbL5mM1go+jXUSL5fTonH S0X0kCTauoeCHnnKv0C4ewsO5U7t5McPZYj+VBus7ZKKW9qLxrn3S56tRBIe/i9Pyhn5 0k2+pCnkpmVxXi1a1FgKWBEjRTsz1/fOtxndY6PHg4NhKWRoZX+2VWO0ClPPgcLTqAoK drVnbUjLjHhn/6ovmsVOLF6NAouLj5qfRegRK6Iqq9afObKVuE20jhmKYKLVKicPcv/J H09w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FUdO3wIVKJ1uEpVtvZFo0H+MrrxUmUYpqrtdhRDbF3NTp/HrTMIAUB5UTW6yWmjXQ== X-Received: by 10.194.61.19 with SMTP id l19mr5586547wjr.4.1461013149370; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.107] (static-84-42-162-134.net.upcbroadband.cz. [84.42.162.134]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ll9sm66028269wjc.29.2016.04.18.13.59.08 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 18 Apr 2016 13:59:08 -0700 (PDT) References: <20160418161552.9368.65562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: venue-selection@ietf.org From: Ignas Bagdonas X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20160418161552.9368.65562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <57154A9A.1030306@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 21:59:06 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20160418161552.9368.65562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070100000500050102070109" Archived-At: Subject: [Venue-selection] Copenhagen X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 20:59:14 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070100000500050102070109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi there, Out of the possible European venues, Copenhagen seems to be the most expensive one - likely beaten by Oslo and Geneva, but that is still insanely expensive. For a cost of hotel in Copenhagen for an IETF week, it is very likely that Prague could be attended three times, and Berlin possibly twice. As someone who pays for my IETF involment myself, I do have serious concerns for Copenhagen. It is a nice place to visit, no argument about that. Looking pragmatically, IETF tends to visit the places where the attendees are coming from. Denmark does not win over Germany or Czhec Republic by the number of attendees, not even over France for the matter, at least quickly looking at past 10 meetings. If votes do count here, I would vote against Copenhagen. Thank you. Ignas -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Interim step on meetings site feedback — for sites currently under active consideration Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:15:52 -0700 From: The IAOC Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org To: IETF Announcement List CC: recentattendees@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, 95all@ietf.org All, The IAOC and its meetings committee are continuing to review the situation with respect to meeting in Singapore. As I noted about a week ago [1], we are reviewing our meeting planning procedures to ensure that we have input at appropriate points to ensure issues are identified and addressed before contracts are signed and announcements made. This will mean more transparency, including sharing the list of cities under consideration when we have a workable way to handle and hear the feedback. We will make concrete progress on that at our retreat in a few weeks time. In the meantime, we do have active site discussions and negotiations ready to close for meetings that are coming up. In addition to reaching out to groups or agencies that have specific knowledge about travel for diverse groups including religious, ethnical and LGBTQ people, we are reaching out to the IETF community as a whole with this note. In order to make sure we haven’t overlooked something else that should have been properly considered for sites under consideration, as well as to gather some running code on how a feedback process might work, we would like to hear from anyone who is aware of reasons we could not have a successful meeting in any of the following cities, or of any limits to attendee accessibility or inclusiveness that should be considered: Paris Montreal Copenhagen Please send your input to venue-selection@ietf.org. It will help the review process if the Subject line had the name of the city first, Subject: . In order not miss the contract opportunities, city-specific input would be most helpful if received by the end of May 2, 2016. Other input on the process will be best received in e-mail at venue-selection@ietf.org with the Subject line: Process. As we iterate the process we will continue to seek input to fashion a meeting planning process that works. Leslie, for the IAOC. [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/hKwBYOwPkE6VTA4mxxf00NTLLF0 -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leslie Daigle Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC ldaigle@thinkingcat.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------070100000500050102070109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi there,

Out of the possible European venues, Copenhagen seems to be the most expensive one - likely beaten by Oslo and Geneva, but that is still insanely expensive. For a cost of hotel in Copenhagen for an IETF week, it is very likely that Prague could be attended three times, and Berlin possibly twice. As someone who pays for my IETF involment myself, I do have serious concerns for Copenhagen. It is a nice place to visit, no argument about that. Looking pragmatically, IETF tends to visit the places where the attendees are coming from. Denmark does not win over Germany or Czhec Republic by the number of attendees, not even over France for the matter, at least quickly looking at past 10 meetings. If votes do count here, I would vote against Copenhagen.

Thank you.

Ignas




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Interim step on meetings site feedback — for sites currently under active consideration
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 09:15:52 -0700
From: The IAOC <iaoc-chair@ietf.org>
Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org
To: IETF Announcement List <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
CC: recentattendees@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, 95all@ietf.org 


All,

The IAOC and its meetings committee are continuing to review the situation with respect to meeting in Singapore.  As I noted about a week ago [1],  we are reviewing our meeting planning procedures to ensure that we have input at appropriate points to ensure issues are identified and addressed before contracts are signed and announcements made.  This will mean more transparency, including sharing the list of cities under consideration when we have a workable way to handle and hear the feedback.  We will make concrete progress on that at our retreat in a few weeks time.

In the meantime, we do have active site discussions and negotiations ready to close for meetings that are coming up.  In addition to reaching out to groups or agencies that have specific knowledge about travel for diverse groups including religious, ethnical and LGBTQ people, we are reaching out to the IETF community as a whole with this note.

In order to make sure we haven’t overlooked something else that should have been properly considered for sites under consideration, as well as to gather some running code on how a feedback process might work, we would like to hear from anyone who is aware of reasons we could not have a successful meeting in any of the following cities, or of any limits to attendee accessibility or inclusiveness that should be considered:

	Paris
	Montreal
	Copenhagen

Please send your input to venue-selection@ietf.org.  It will help the review process if the Subject line had the name of the city first, Subject: <city>.

In order not miss the contract opportunities, city-specific input would be most helpful if received by the end of May 2, 2016.

Other input on the process will be best received in e-mail at venue-selection@ietf.org with the Subject line: Process.  As we iterate the process we will continue to seek input to fashion a meeting planning process that works.


Leslie,
for the IAOC.

[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/hKwBYOwPkE6VTA4mxxf00NTLLF0

-- 

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Leslie Daigle
Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC
ldaigle@thinkingcat.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------070100000500050102070109-- From nobody Mon Apr 18 16:40:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B101C12E999 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:40:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OBBGEeZ0Zg0V for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B058B12E997 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 16:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1asImT-0003dQ-RK for venue-selection@ietf.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2016 23:40:38 +0000 Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 08:40:35 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: venue-selection@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20160418161552.9368.65562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20160418161552.9368.65562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [Venue-selection] visas X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2016 23:40:40 -0000 > In order to make sure we haven=E2=80=99t overlooked something else that s= hould > have been properly considered for sites under consideration cool move. thank you. > Paris > Montreal > Copenhagen as canada is still recovering from harper (as you know only too well), and paris and copengagen are not recovering from anti-islamic paranoia, do you anticipate worse than the usual visa issues? randy From nobody Tue Apr 19 07:24:06 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8CA12DEF9 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:24:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HtBbw7x2TkCa for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x234.google.com (mail-yw0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF9D112DA42 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x234.google.com with SMTP id j74so16505527ywg.1 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:24:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=KBv6/IsZofQyEPxW1SfDnCl5v/K3c0eY2NTuy35vP6g=; b=K/N4NwQwKtzTIgST3Eu/4b4vHVpaVs67h1p95irf2OCUFKVLP0VJLkuiUFcJhCWGqN D6/lKaJawfPZ7gfJ66said6VKAmXZZzU+5gI/BM+J3L3JWFD/vTp49jxA9uo7sks0piX i7xQ2gTUu0eZItc0LhNOkY93H0CTRVnvHw9akhn3TDkdFpZCDGKU5bhyNFy1dQfIqc+n cnSQLmAcXv4TEEC/zUbFOGjXG2JMaU0tpoOZUHS7OhUeMhGZWSI2YIb4+/ZYS0aAzzKL MJygObLLypDgBKyo5W9bd95eDHHs8vhcIuI2NHB9e+w3K5qpLjwGp7mkmSNHlEmoFFcc qAUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=KBv6/IsZofQyEPxW1SfDnCl5v/K3c0eY2NTuy35vP6g=; b=ZW2ADAqpDGJ3/bcjEzTSOP6uBQnpAJw5PMwyV4O8FxzAqq5LpvrTBp0mlPOxcErOhF /KvowEaPdRZf4AaTFajiJT3H+vA/DLFdDYIOSitFUZnUOhKVZobaIngK1x9lb3f2rsPt QVsr3ydVLrKBSPUE+xDwnYzoYOA0W8dW7ytUIkXOw6cHVQDiJdphyoszk2XPIdQvP34H CRD8QP0oJtWIVLJg9M04YgH4DGcSQgm/OzC5+RBZq6sqSRYEI53aCYMjM94BXpEdHvD2 bRK25iRfxeYsk2mGZr5U7PHNnwIHUAtY/taIujYtezfhc68HYO9amvcCThz9qL4QgGTo 0vAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FWkia1JW+17WIbl7lrqE6aegn5014RiueC6AVPt8JBp9sSl4pBPA0BtL/4qlj1ArQ2PKgf1cTYzfx2GZQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.13.233.68 with SMTP id s65mr1741858ywe.96.1461075841184; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.129.104.86 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 07:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 19:24:01 +0500 Message-ID: From: muhammad kashif To: venue-selection@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c060c1681017b0530d73a6e Archived-At: Subject: [Venue-selection] Paris X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 14:24:04 -0000 --94eb2c060c1681017b0530d73a6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 --94eb2c060c1681017b0530d73a6e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

--94eb2c060c1681017b0530d73a6e-- From nobody Thu Apr 21 08:36:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EA012EA24 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 07:21:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z7LQBpKidW87 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 07:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:8006::18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 456B512EA1B for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 07:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=ryuu.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1atFTo-00089o-NU; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 14:21:17 +0000 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 23:21:15 +0900 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Ray Pelletier In-Reply-To: References: <20160418161552.9368.65562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/22.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 08:36:19 -0700 Cc: venue-selection@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Venue-selection] visas X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 14:21:24 -0000 ray, i think we have done better on the visa issue in the last couple of years. we are more prepared, doing things earlier, etc. more room to improve always, but we have come a way. randy From nobody Thu Apr 21 08:36:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6AF12E99A for ; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isoc.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-isoc-org; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=z1kn6Zm7O6Izr9+/u8LJepdVrzv5/aOKUj/+uxzFUW4=; b=fET7yFUHhH26bxxylhxMMyEzPmamEZUZJVPpm5P86diyOQUcCde4XYW5hKR2SYgNSGV2AYpDR9BOOGQG7gS/RjFJnoPTw3iSryEHazijSmypJHXTWPrdXe/8d4JFyk0ENDVdCljDUhfbUR1FGUQCrD3fMgAQ9cj0CGHruk56MII= Authentication-Results: psg.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;psg.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=isoc.org; Received: from [192.168.0.17] (104.244.129.226) by BY2PR0601MB1560.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.163.107.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.466.19; Thu, 21 Apr 2016 14:18:05 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Ray Pelletier In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 10:20:01 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <20160418161552.9368.65562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Randy Bush X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-Originating-IP: [104.244.129.226] X-ClientProxiedBy: BLUPR17CA0024.namprd17.prod.outlook.com (10.164.14.162) To BY2PR0601MB1560.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.163.107.142) X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: cef5d3d5-ade2-408d-fdc1-08d369efc1c8 X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; 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It=E2=80=99s = hard at this moment to predict what the difficulties for obtaining visas will be so far into the future. We will take our regular precautions when making contractual commitments so far in advance as regards Force Majeur events, rescheduling and cancellations to protect us. Thanks for the question. Ray > On Apr 18, 2016, at 7:40 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >=20 >> In order to make sure we haven=E2=80=99t overlooked something else = that should >> have been properly considered for sites under consideration >=20 > cool move. thank you. >=20 >> Paris >> Montreal >> Copenhagen >=20 > as canada is still recovering from harper (as you know only too well), > and paris and copengagen are not recovering from anti-islamic = paranoia, > do you anticipate worse than the usual visa issues? >=20 > randy >=20 From nobody Sat Apr 23 05:58:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B0612D5F0 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 05:58:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P-v3w3HroEke for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 05:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [198.74.231.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B9E12D597 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 05:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91C3146B8D for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 08:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fledge.watson.org (weiler@localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id u3NCwL7Y085051 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 08:58:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) Received: from localhost (weiler@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id u3NCwLBP085048 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2016 08:58:21 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from weiler@watson.org) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: weiler owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 08:58:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Samuel Weiler To: venue-selection@ietf.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 23 Apr 2016 08:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Archived-At: Subject: [Venue-selection] Paris: theft and street crime X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 12:58:24 -0000 Our colleagues and their traveling companions have experienced a high level of street crime in Paris: laptop theft, passport theft, and general pickpocketing. I believe I was "marked" my pickpockets in the Paris Metro near the palais des congres, though I managed to side-step them. We also experienced problems with theft from rooms at the Concorde Lafayette (now the Hyatt Etoile) during the 2012 meeting. While the hotel might have addressed this to some degree, I'm seeing Tripadvisor reviews from August and September 2015 that still mention theft. Neither of these are showstopper issues, but they're worth considering, and there are many cities I would prefer more. -- Sam From nobody Tue Apr 26 06:06:53 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: venue-selection@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C11212D1AC for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:06:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.726 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.726 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DEAR_SOMETHING=1.973, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qjFeS6Ogga2u for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0002912D4FE for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id n3so5942656wmn.0 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:06:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=0GJ80CHs6sjr0JExE96u5NyYiE+zkvuP/Xz5Dtnfeus=; b=QfxI3hea4/zRVDGhZJBnQdE+kk2bXkTwBYEpWb/nYHbU2BlIFFz9BvdTbwSkBv4yy+ zcSkJbwsynF+j9nsQypVK7UKXbVrvYNznUheTS8ACqYVMPDI868EClEbjVAZC1ie6g6Y ITsPyZms9btnxDcU3gZTQIfYzG+C7Xp6d4LD2r/49tsEi0INKCqqyClLr6yHGHYg0HmQ 6E3iNwMO3rs3rO0Gg62WMDVq2gSnecr1OJi9BZKj9I+Oo7DU1Qv4ZFF37HZ0lDjs5tCi DRHjqT1wX8bUyUYi8rzzG1RxEyVUUBtOCxQRsRnI5GDHBAmJGCKJx81mi6ms40eOlT21 RcCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from :to; bh=0GJ80CHs6sjr0JExE96u5NyYiE+zkvuP/Xz5Dtnfeus=; b=anRGMe9ls8oe5BX/pcLw7txCb0yNnb+tWDWLSydk3TfcNKu+WHDDCuxUsO1H27ASfJ aUMX2Si6t5Uf3ENQVbtnidt2/qJ43r5WVSTC39TXDcH17aUdJgRvDVTvmB7qEvK9nmCe gHSHhBlF3elcM4rgnonk/s3tuOG2CPTwoEEqFTzfgV1xLK+DhrH0aQ/6vqOCHOW1gvJw +ILTUqdOXAakDEq2VD9H7iQpITV0o8baUVlnjHNurHXJNYBCahUCViLIFTPkjHG9QN47 KhJMNrWiQvTEWKY8DIUOQOpYa4Yd5gPu8AqrYgD0fjdlqqjpLOOEwvo7rxvtH8AoxUxF XUmA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FVkeUNg1gABeovduqKDbOwXuOFYFpb+qENNPZ/8qiziy46+erSaS2cPeEeA8JiH5B2M/6iHodjWRwkx8g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.92.237 with SMTP id cp13mr3174211wjb.168.1461676007915; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Sender: cattekwaad@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.190.71 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:06:47 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eMl0KvbZrDyBqXNxTOokCLmQafE Message-ID: From: Corinne Cath To: venue-selection@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7beb945a3a998d053162f72c Archived-At: Subject: [Venue-selection] Paris Montreal Copenhagen - input on locations X-BeenThere: venue-selection@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Venue Selection List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 13:06:52 -0000 --047d7beb945a3a998d053162f72c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=8BDear sir, or madam, In response to the =E2=80=8Bemail sent out on April 18th I am sending you s= ome suggestions regarding the sites under consideration. Depending on which specific hotels or conference venues these meetings will take place at I am concerned about their accessibility for people who are not 'able-bodied' (this term is a more sensitive version of the more colloquial term 'people with disabilities'). During the plenary meeting of the IETF95 it was clearly stated by the meeting committee that it considers accessibility for not-able bodied individuals to fall under the rubric of a 'should' instead of a 'must', when considering locations. I believe this decision needs to be addressed. Not only because it goes against what is accepted practice in relation to ensuring that meeting venues are accessible for all for many conference organizers, or because not ensuring access for non-able bodied people is a direct violation of the law in the jurisdiction of some of the suggested venues, but also because no real justification for this decision was presented other than 'it is very difficult to find such venues in certain locations'. I hope that you will agree with me that in order to ensure that participants who are not able-bodied can participate in the IETF's physical meetings this policy needs to be updated. Some examples of good policies regarding accessibility for non-able bodied individuals can be found here: http://www.e-accessibilitytoolkit.org/toolkit/annexes/Tips_on_conducting_ac= cessible_meetings_and_conferences http://www.sigaccess.org/welcome-to-sigaccess/resources/accessible-conferen= ce-guide/ http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/disability/arc/inclusive_meetings.pdf =E2=80=8BI thank you for your time and effort in updating the policy. Pleas= e feel free to reach out to me if you have any further questions or if any of the suggestions I made are unclear. Best, Corinne Cath --047d7beb945a3a998d053162f72c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=E2=80=8BDear sir, or madam,

In response to the =E2=80= =8Bemail sent out on April 18th I am sending you some suggestions regarding= the sites under consideration. Depending on which specific hotels or confe= rence venues these meetings will take place at I am concerned about their a= ccessibility for people who are not 'able-bodied' (this term is a m= ore sensitive version of the more colloquial term 'people with disabili= ties').

During the plenary meeting of the IETF95 it was clearl= y stated by the meeting committee that it considers accessibility for not-= able bodied individuals to fall under the rubric of=C2=A0 a 'should'= ; instead of a 'must', when considering locations. I believe this d= ecision needs to be addressed. Not only because it goes against what is acc= epted practice in relation to ensuring that meeting venues are accessible f= or all for many conference organizers, or because not ensuring access for n= on-able bodied people is a direct violation of the law in the jurisdiction = of some of the suggested venues, but also because no real justification for= this decision was presented other than 'it is very difficult to find s= uch venues in certain locations'.

I hope that you will agree w= ith me that in order to ensure that participants who are not able-bodied ca= n participate in the IETF's physical meetings this policy needs to be u= pdated. Some examples of good policies regarding accessibility for non-able= bodied individuals can be found here:

http://www.e-accessibilitytoolkit.org/toolkit/annexes/Tips= _on_conducting_accessible_meetings_and_conferences
http://www.sigaccess.org/welcome-to-sigaccess/resources/accessible-con= ference-guide/
http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/disability/arc/inclusive_m= eetings.pdf

=E2=80=8BI thank you for your time and effort in up= dating the policy. Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any furt= her questions or if any of the suggestions I made are unclear.

Best= ,

Corinne Cath


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