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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: bar BoF summary
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 06:51:42 +0000
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Hi,

First of all, thank you guys for attending VNF Pool bar BoF in last IETF we=
ek. I believe most of us have understand the general problem aspects. In or=
der to progress our work by carving out a set of detailed problems to be ad=
dressed in IETF, I list the following problem bullets. Please review the bu=
llets and let me know your opinions (comments, suggestions, or even simply =
supports :)).

Summary on Problems:

-          Signalling to handle VNF resiliency and instance transition requ=
irements

o   Signalling from VNF pool manager to CMS for VNF instance deployment ref=
lecting resiliency requirements (e.g. number and distribution of instances =
running on different VMs or hypervisors);

o   Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. failure, state change=
, scaling, moving) notification, backup announcement;

o   State management (e.g. synchronizing service states between active/stan=
dby, or multiple actives for load sharing) within VNF pool;

-          Transport characteristics

o   Reliable transport protocols (e.g. MPTCP, SCTP) underlying the above si=
gnalling;

o   Security protocols;

-          Better coordination of VNF instance deployment with underlying n=
etwork information, performed by VNF pool manager

o   ALTO, I2RS;

-          Analyze resiliency mechanisms complimentary to Service Function =
Chaining (SFC)

As more detailed background, I enclosed a VNF Pool diagram in attachment. F=
or those who has difficulty on opening the attachment, here are major descr=
iption:

*Multiple pools for multiple VNFs, with each pool containing a group of VNF=
 instances providing same network function;

*Each pool has a manager to facilitate intra-pool resiliency, e.g. backup i=
nstance selection, service state synchronization;

*Inter-pool resiliency (e.g. instance transition notification) can be achie=
ved by pool managers and/or instances from adjacent pools.

Thanks.

-Ning

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">First of all, thank you guys fo=
r attending VNF Pool bar BoF in last IETF week. I believe most of us have u=
nderstand the general problem aspects. In order to progress our work by car=
ving out a set of detailed problems
 to be addressed in IETF, I list the following problem bullets. Please revi=
ew the bullets and let me know your opinions (comments, suggestions, or eve=
n simply supports
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Wingdings">J</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US">).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">Summary on Problems:<o:p></o=
:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;line-he=
ight:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sig=
nalling to handle VNF resilienc</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:r=
ed">y</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"> and instance transiti=
on requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-in=
dent:-18.0pt;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sig=
nalling from VNF pool manager to CMS for VNF instance deployment reflecting=
 resiliency requirements (e.g. number and distribution of instances running=
 on different VMs or hypervisors);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-in=
dent:-18.0pt;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sig=
nalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. failure, state</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"> change</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=
=3D"color:red">, scaling, moving) notification,
 backup announcement;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-in=
dent:-18.0pt;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sta=
te management</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"> (e.g. synchro=
nizing service states between active/standby, or multiple actives for load =
sharing)</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">
 within VNF pool;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;line-h=
eight:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Tra=
nsport characteristics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-in=
dent:-18.0pt;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Rel=
iable transport protocols (e.g. MPTCP, SCTP) underlying the above signallin=
g;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-in=
dent:-18.0pt;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sec=
urity protocols</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">;</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;line-h=
eight:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Bet=
ter coordination of VNF instance deployment with underlying network informa=
tion, performed
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">by</span><span lang=3D"EN-G=
B" style=3D"color:red"> VNF pool manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-in=
dent:-18.0pt;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">ALT=
O</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">, I2RS;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;line-hei=
ght:105%;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Ana=
lyze</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"> resiliency mechanisms =
complimentary to Service Function Chaining (SFC)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">As more detailed background, I =
enclosed a VNF Pool diagram in attachment. For those who has difficulty on =
opening the attachment, here are major description:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"Default" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:windowtext">&#8226;Multiple pools for multiple VNFs, with each poo=
l containing a group of VNF instances providing same network function;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"Default" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:windowtext">&#8226;Each pool has a manager to facilitate intra-poo=
l resiliency, e.g. backup instance selection, service state synchronization=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"Default"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">&#8226;In=
ter-pool resiliency (e.g. instance transition notification) can be achieved=
 by pool managers and/or instances from adjacent pools.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-Ning<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC6667792582D870nkgeml501mbschi_--

--_004_B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC6667792582D870nkgeml501mbschi_
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
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Thank you again for putting together what I thought was a
useful session, and thank you for the sandwiches and beer!
A couple of points:

I think it's really important to have
a crisp, clear problem statement in a few sentences, what's
sometimes called an "elevator pitch" (i.e. make your case in
the time it takes to ride an elevator, although obviously the
elevators in the Hyatt in Vancouver distort the time
expectations ... ).  An actual charter would be much longer
and more detailed, but I think a simple problem statement is
a good place to start.

One thing that I think is missing but really needs to be
made both explicit and clear is what's meant by "reliable."
It's one of those words, like "scalable" or "secure" that
can mean any one of a number of things and should be explained
both in terms of what's covered and what's not.

In this case an abstract might look something like:
========
A vnfpool working group would focus on the problem of providing
reliable VNF instances and service chains, where by "reliable"
we mean <some text>.  The component problems that would need
to be solved include:
========
and then include your bullet points.  On "transport characteristics"
I'd probably say something along the lines of
. Identify and analyze transport characteristics for control plane
  traffic (reliability, QoS, etc.)
. Detailed analysis of transport security characteristics to provide
  protection against known threats, and identification of an appropriate
  trust model (with an eye towards key management)

I'm not sure I fully understand "Better coordination of VNF instance
deployment with underlying network information, performed in VNF pool
manager" and that may need some wordsmithing.

I believe the most recently chartered working group in the Transport
area is aqm, and it may be worthwhile taking a look at that to get
a feel for what a successful charter looks like these days.

Thanks again!

Melinda



From zongning@huawei.com  Thu Nov 14 00:53:00 2013
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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 08:52:45 +0000
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
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Hi, Melinda,

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Please see inline.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal=
f
> Of Melinda Shore
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 11:56 AM
> To: vnfpool@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
>=20
>=20
> Thank you again for putting together what I thought was a
> useful session, and thank you for the sandwiches and beer!
> A couple of points:
>=20
> I think it's really important to have
> a crisp, clear problem statement in a few sentences, what's
> sometimes called an "elevator pitch" (i.e. make your case in
> the time it takes to ride an elevator, although obviously the
> elevators in the Hyatt in Vancouver distort the time
> expectations ... ).  An actual charter would be much longer
> and more detailed, but I think a simple problem statement is
> a good place to start.

[Ning] I fully agree we need to get agreement on problem statement, before =
working on the charter.

>=20
> One thing that I think is missing but really needs to be
> made both explicit and clear is what's meant by "reliable."
> It's one of those words, like "scalable" or "secure" that
> can mean any one of a number of things and should be explained
> both in terms of what's covered and what's not.
>=20

[][Ning] Ideally, "reliability" means "the ability of the a system to limit=
 disruption and return to normal when having fault, failure, etc.". But I i=
ntend to limit our scope to a pooling architecture that enables self-healin=
g capability of VNF instances distributed in multiple pools in case of inst=
ance transition or failure. This VNF pool can be regarded as a underlying l=
ayer to support applications that may have various reliability requirements=
.

> In this case an abstract might look something like:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> A vnfpool working group would focus on the problem of providing
> reliable VNF instances and service chains, where by "reliable"
> we mean <some text>.  The component problems that would need
> to be solved include:
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> and then include your bullet points.  On "transport characteristics"
> I'd probably say something along the lines of
> . Identify and analyze transport characteristics for control plane
>   traffic (reliability, QoS, etc.)
> . Detailed analysis of transport security characteristics to provide
>   protection against known threats, and identification of an appropriate
>   trust model (with an eye towards key management)
>=20

[Ning] Thanks for the suggested text.

> I'm not sure I fully understand "Better coordination of VNF instance
> deployment with underlying network information, performed in VNF pool
> manager" and that may need some wordsmithing.
>=20

[Ning] I think the general idea is that network information (e.g. topology,=
 link status, etc.) needs to be considered during virtualized instance depl=
oyment. Jan, I suppose you could elaborate a little bit more on this issue?=
 :-)

> I believe the most recently chartered working group in the Transport
> area is aqm, and it may be worthwhile taking a look at that to get
> a feel for what a successful charter looks like these days.
>=20
> Thanks again!
>=20
> Melinda
>=20
>=20

-Ning


From zongning@huawei.com  Thu Nov 14 01:00:54 2013
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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
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Sorry, more precise description on what "reliability" means in our scope.

[Ning] Ideally, "reliability" means "the ability of the a system to limit d=
isruption and return to normal when having fault, failure, etc.". But I int=
end to limit our scope to a pooling architecture that enables self-healing =
capability of a set of VNFs where their instances are distributed in multip=
le pools and subject to transition or failure. This VNF pool can be regarde=
d as a underlying layer to support applications that may have various relia=
bility requirements.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zongning
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 4:53 PM
> To: 'Melinda Shore'; vnfpool@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
>=20
> Hi, Melinda,
>=20
> Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Please see inline.
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] On Beh=
alf
> > Of Melinda Shore
> > Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 11:56 AM
> > To: vnfpool@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
> >
> >
> > Thank you again for putting together what I thought was a
> > useful session, and thank you for the sandwiches and beer!
> > A couple of points:
> >
> > I think it's really important to have
> > a crisp, clear problem statement in a few sentences, what's
> > sometimes called an "elevator pitch" (i.e. make your case in
> > the time it takes to ride an elevator, although obviously the
> > elevators in the Hyatt in Vancouver distort the time
> > expectations ... ).  An actual charter would be much longer
> > and more detailed, but I think a simple problem statement is
> > a good place to start.
>=20
> [Ning] I fully agree we need to get agreement on problem statement, befor=
e
> working on the charter.
>=20
> >
> > One thing that I think is missing but really needs to be
> > made both explicit and clear is what's meant by "reliable."
> > It's one of those words, like "scalable" or "secure" that
> > can mean any one of a number of things and should be explained
> > both in terms of what's covered and what's not.
> >
>=20
> [][Ning] Ideally, "reliability" means "the ability of the a system to lim=
it
> disruption and return to normal when having fault, failure, etc.". But I =
intend to
> limit our scope to a pooling architecture that enables self-healing capab=
ility of
> VNF instances distributed in multiple pools in case of instance transitio=
n or
> failure. This VNF pool can be regarded as a underlying layer to support
> applications that may have various reliability requirements.
>=20
> > In this case an abstract might look something like:
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > A vnfpool working group would focus on the problem of providing
> > reliable VNF instances and service chains, where by "reliable"
> > we mean <some text>.  The component problems that would need
> > to be solved include:
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > and then include your bullet points.  On "transport characteristics"
> > I'd probably say something along the lines of
> > . Identify and analyze transport characteristics for control plane
> >   traffic (reliability, QoS, etc.)
> > . Detailed analysis of transport security characteristics to provide
> >   protection against known threats, and identification of an appropriat=
e
> >   trust model (with an eye towards key management)
> >
>=20
> [Ning] Thanks for the suggested text.
>=20
> > I'm not sure I fully understand "Better coordination of VNF instance
> > deployment with underlying network information, performed in VNF pool
> > manager" and that may need some wordsmithing.
> >
>=20
> [Ning] I think the general idea is that network information (e.g. topolog=
y, link
> status, etc.) needs to be considered during virtualized instance deployme=
nt.
> Jan, I suppose you could elaborate a little bit more on this issue? :-)
>=20
> > I believe the most recently chartered working group in the Transport
> > area is aqm, and it may be worthwhile taking a look at that to get
> > a feel for what a successful charter looks like these days.
> >
> > Thanks again!
> >
> > Melinda
> >
> >
>=20
> -Ning


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From: "Diego R. Lopez" <diego@tid.es>
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Cc: "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>, Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
To: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Real Problem of VNFpool
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 16:47:16 +0000
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Cc: Martin Stiemerling <Martin.Stiemerling@neclab.eu>
Subject: [vnfpool] Real Problem of VNFpool
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I feel the bullets listed below are more along the line of the needed mecha=
nisms to solve the problem, but not the problem itself.

Here is the real problem:


In a nutshell, NFV Reliability (or VNFpool) is to address higher failure ra=
te of service instances in NFV environment. For Performance reason, it is b=
etter for service instances to be directly connected, as shown below.

But, instances can fail, over-utilized, or moved...

*        How do instances of Function-1 know which instance in the pool of =
Function-2 will be the one replacing the failed instance?

*        Who is responsible for keeping the state of next available instanc=
es in the pool of next network function?

*        Who is responsible for keeping the state of the upstream instances=
?

*        What is the mechanism for each "Service Pool manager" to communica=
te with each other?





[cid:image001.jpg@01CEE126.DE95D010]





Linda




From: vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Zongning
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:52 AM
To: vnfpool@ietf.org
Subject: [vnfpool] bar BoF summary

Hi,

First of all, thank you guys for attending VNF Pool bar BoF in last IETF we=
ek. I believe most of us have understand the general problem aspects. In or=
der to progress our work by carving out a set of detailed problems to be ad=
dressed in IETF, I list the following problem bullets. Please review the bu=
llets and let me know your opinions (comments, suggestions, or even simply =
supports :)).

Summary on Problems:

-        Signalling to handle VNF resiliency and instance transition requir=
ements

o   Signalling from VNF pool manager to CMS for VNF instance deployment ref=
lecting resiliency requirements (e.g. number and distribution of instances =
running on different VMs or hypervisors);

o   Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. failure, state change=
, scaling, moving) notification, backup announcement;

o   State management (e.g. synchronizing service states between active/stan=
dby, or multiple actives for load sharing) within VNF pool;

-        Transport characteristics

o   Reliable transport protocols (e.g. MPTCP, SCTP) underlying the above si=
gnalling;

o   Security protocols;

-        Better coordination of VNF instance deployment with underlying net=
work information, performed by VNF pool manager

o   ALTO, I2RS;

-        Analyze resiliency mechanisms complimentary to Service Function Ch=
aining (SFC)

As more detailed background, I enclosed a VNF Pool diagram in attachment. F=
or those who has difficulty on opening the attachment, here are major descr=
iption:

*Multiple pools for multiple VNFs, with each pool containing a group of VNF=
 instances providing same network function;

*Each pool has a manager to facilitate intra-pool resiliency, e.g. backup i=
nstance selection, service state synchronization;

*Inter-pool resiliency (e.g. instance transition notification) can be achie=
ved by pool managers and/or instances from adjacent pools.

Thanks.

-Ning

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">I fee=
l the bullets listed below are more along the line of the needed mechanisms=
 to solve the problem, but not the problem itself.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"=
>Here is the real problem:
<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">In a nutshell, NFV Reliability (or VNFpool) is to=
 address higher failure rate of service instances in NFV environment. For P=
erformance reason, it is better for service instances to be directly connec=
ted, as shown below.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">But, instances can fail, over-utilized, or moved&=
#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
,&quot;serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"f=
ont:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>How do instances of Function-1 know which in=
stance in the pool of Function-2 will be the one replacing the failed insta=
nce?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
,&quot;serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"f=
ont:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Who is responsible for keeping the state of =
next available instances in the pool of next network function?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
,&quot;serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"f=
ont:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Who is responsible for keeping the state of =
the upstream instances?&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
,&quot;serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span style=3D"f=
ont:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>What is the mechanism for each &#8220;Servic=
e Pool manager&#8221; to communicate with each other?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><img width=3D"670" height=3D"240" id=3D"Picture_x=
0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CEE126.DE95D010"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Linda=
 &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:vnfpool-b=
ounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Zongning<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> vnfpool@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [vnfpool] bar BoF summary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">First of all, thank you guys for attending VNF Pool =
bar BoF in last IETF week. I believe most of us have understand the general=
 problem aspects. In order to progress our work by carving out a set of det=
ailed problems to be addressed in
 IETF, I list the following problem bullets. Please review the bullets and =
let me know your opinions (comments, suggestions, or even simply supports
<span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings">J</span>).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>Summary on Problems:<o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;line-height:105%;=
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sig=
nalling to handle VNF resiliency and instance transition requirements<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sig=
nalling from VNF pool manager to CMS for VNF instance deployment reflecting=
 resiliency requirements (e.g. number and distribution of instances running=
 on different VMs or hypervisors);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sig=
nalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. failure, state change, scali=
ng, moving) notification, backup announcement;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sta=
te management (e.g. synchronizing service states between active/standby, or=
 multiple actives for load sharing) within VNF pool;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;line-height:105%;=
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Tra=
nsport characteristics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Rel=
iable transport protocols (e.g. MPTCP, SCTP) underlying the above signallin=
g;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sec=
urity protocols;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;line-height:105%;=
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Bet=
ter coordination of VNF instance deployment with underlying network informa=
tion, performed by VNF pool manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;line-height:105%;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">ALT=
O, I2RS;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;line-height:105%;=
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Ana=
lyze resiliency mechanisms complimentary to Service Function Chaining (SFC)=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">As more detailed background, I =
enclosed a VNF Pool diagram in attachment. For those who has difficulty on =
opening the attachment, here are major description:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"Default" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:window=
text">&#8226;Multiple pools for multiple VNFs, with each pool containing a =
group of VNF instances providing same network function;<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"Default" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.4pt"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:window=
text">&#8226;Each pool has a manager to facilitate intra-pool resiliency, e=
.g. backup instance selection, service state synchronization;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"Default"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">&#8226;Inter-pool resili=
ency (e.g. instance transition notification) can be achieved by pool manage=
rs and/or instances from adjacent pools.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-Ning<o:p></o:p></p>
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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: "Diego R. Lopez" <diego@tid.es>
Thread-Topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Real Problem of VNFpool
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Hi, Linda,

Thank you for the text - which I agree is the more heuristic way to underst=
and real problem. :) The bullets you listed are actually important issues i=
n "signaling part" in the bar BoF summary.
Let's start from this text and see how folks would comment...

-Ning

From: Linda Dunbar
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 12:47 AM
To: Zongning; vnfpool@ietf.org
Cc: Martin Stiemerling
Subject: Real Problem of VNFpool

I feel the bullets listed below are more along the line of the needed mecha=
nisms to solve the problem, but not the problem itself.

Here is the real problem:


In a nutshell, NFV Reliability (or VNFpool) is to address higher failure ra=
te of service instances in NFV environment. For Performance reason, it is b=
etter for service instances to be directly connected, as shown below.

But, instances can fail, over-utilized, or moved...

*      How do instances of Function-1 know which instance in the pool of Fu=
nction-2 will be the one replacing the failed instance?

*      Who is responsible for keeping the state of next available instances=
 in the pool of next network function?

*      Who is responsible for keeping the state of the upstream instances?

*      What is the mechanism for each "Service Pool manager" to communicate=
 with each other?





[cid:image001.jpg@01CEE1E2.6216C140]





Linda




From: vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Zongning
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:52 AM
To: vnfpool@ietf.org
Subject: [vnfpool] bar BoF summary

Hi,

First of all, thank you guys for attending VNF Pool bar BoF in last IETF we=
ek. I believe most of us have understand the general problem aspects. In or=
der to progress our work by carving out a set of detailed problems to be ad=
dressed in IETF, I list the following problem bullets. Please review the bu=
llets and let me know your opinions (comments, suggestions, or even simply =
supports :)).

Summary on Problems:

-          Signalling to handle VNF resiliency and instance transition requ=
irements

o   Signalling from VNF pool manager to CMS for VNF instance deployment ref=
lecting resiliency requirements (e.g. number and distribution of instances =
running on different VMs or hypervisors);

o   Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. failure, state change=
, scaling, moving) notification, backup announcement;

o   State management (e.g. synchronizing service states between active/stan=
dby, or multiple actives for load sharing) within VNF pool;

-          Transport characteristics

o   Reliable transport protocols (e.g. MPTCP, SCTP) underlying the above si=
gnalling;

o   Security protocols;

-          Better coordination of VNF instance deployment with underlying n=
etwork information, performed by VNF pool manager

o   ALTO, I2RS;

-          Analyze resiliency mechanisms complimentary to Service Function =
Chaining (SFC)

As more detailed background, I enclosed a VNF Pool diagram in attachment. F=
or those who has difficulty on opening the attachment, here are major descr=
iption:

*Multiple pools for multiple VNFs, with each pool containing a group of VNF=
 instances providing same network function;

*Each pool has a manager to facilitate intra-pool resiliency, e.g. backup i=
nstance selection, service state synchronization;

*Inter-pool resiliency (e.g. instance transition notification) can be achie=
ved by pool managers and/or instances from adjacent pools.

Thanks.

-Ning

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</head>
<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-t=
rim:punctuation">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Lin=
da,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thank y=
ou for the text &#8211; which I agree is the more heuristic way to understa=
nd real problem.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"> The bullets you listed=
 are actually important issues in &#8220;signaling part&#8221; in the bar B=
oF summary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Let&#82=
17;s start from this text and see how folks would comment&#8230;<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Ning<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Linda Dunbar
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 12:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zongning; vnfpool@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Martin Stiemerling<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Real Problem of VNFpool<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">I feel the bullets listed below are more along the line of the ne=
eded mechanisms to solve the problem, but not the problem itself.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt=
;color:#1F497D">Here is the real problem:
<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In a nutshell, NFV Reliabili=
ty (or VNFpool) is to address higher failure rate of service instances in N=
FV environment. For Performance reason, it is better for service instances =
to be directly connected, as shown below.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But, instances can fail, ove=
r-utilized, or moved&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<=
span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">How do instances of Fun=
ction-1 know which instance in the pool of Function-2 will be the one repla=
cing the failed instance?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<=
span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Who is responsible for =
keeping the state of next available instances in the pool of next network f=
unction?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<=
span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">Who is responsible for =
keeping the state of the upstream instances?&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;m=
so-list:l1 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Times =
New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<=
span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US">What is the mechanism f=
or each &#8220;Service Pool manager&#8221; to communicate with each other?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><img width=3D"670" height=3D=
"240" id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CEE1E2.6216C140"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D">Linda &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> vnfpool-boun=
ces@ietf.org
 [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Zongning<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> vnfpool@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [vnfpool] bar BoF summary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">First of all, thank you guys fo=
r attending VNF Pool bar BoF in last IETF week. I believe most of us have u=
nderstand the general problem aspects. In order to progress our work by car=
ving out a set of detailed problems
 to be addressed in IETF, I list the following problem bullets. Please revi=
ew the bullets and let me know your opinions (comments, suggestions, or eve=
n simply supports
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Wingdings">J</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US">).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">Summary on Problems:<o:p></o=
:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><spa=
n style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sig=
nalling to handle VNF resiliency and instance transition requirements<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sig=
nalling from VNF pool manager to CMS for VNF instance deployment reflecting=
 resiliency requirements (e.g. number and distribution of instances running=
 on different VMs or hypervisors);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sig=
nalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. failure, state change, scali=
ng, moving) notification, backup announcement;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sta=
te management (e.g. synchronizing service states between active/standby, or=
 multiple actives for load sharing) within VNF pool;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><spa=
n style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Tra=
nsport characteristics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Rel=
iable transport protocols (e.g. MPTCP, SCTP) underlying the above signallin=
g;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Sec=
urity protocols;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><spa=
n style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Bet=
ter coordination of VNF instance deployment with underlying network informa=
tion, performed by VNF pool manager<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:red"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font=
:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">ALT=
O, I2RS;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red"><spa=
n style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:red">Ana=
lyze resiliency mechanisms complimentary to Service Function Chaining (SFC)=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">As more detailed background, I =
enclosed a VNF Pool diagram in attachment. For those who has difficulty on =
opening the attachment, here are major description:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"Default" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:windowtext">&#8226;Multiple pools for multiple VNFs, with each poo=
l containing a group of VNF instances providing same network function;<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"Default" style=3D"margin-bottom:6.4pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:windowtext">&#8226;Each pool has a manager to facilitate intra-poo=
l resiliency, e.g. backup instance selection, service state synchronization=
;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"Default"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">&#8226;In=
ter-pool resiliency (e.g. instance transition notification) can be achieved=
 by pool managers and/or instances from adjacent pools.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-Ning<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From melinda.shore@gmail.com  Fri Nov 15 19:57:14 2013
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On 11/14/13 4:54 AM, Diego R. Lopez wrote:
> Looking at the definition below I am asking myself whether the
> pooling mechanisms could be generally applicable to any network
> function, so we could be talking about applying those mechanisms to
> the resiliency of the elements in a service graph (or SFC, if you
> like...)

There's existing IETF technology (rserpool) to provide a generalized
pooling mechanism.  Too general, and it's probably been overtaken by
events.

In order to start the work we need to demonstrate that we can finish
the work, and that means (among other things) no ocean-boiling.
Focus is extremely important.

Melinda

From zongning@huawei.com  Thu Nov 21 01:11:50 2013
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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 09:11:25 +0000
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Hi,

Please review the below brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and fe=
edback with your comments. I hope this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool=
 Charter, by carving out real problems and work items.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same func=
tion as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually insta=
ntiated as a cluster of software instances running on general purpose serve=
rs via virtualization platform. In an environment based on VNFs, a network =
service is typically realized by a chain of VNFs where the instances of adj=
acent VNFs are preferably directly connected.

A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure beyond those inherent i=
n a single dedicated server, and therefore additional challenges on reliabi=
lity. By reliability, we mean the ability of a VNF chain to continue functi=
on when having transition or failure within the chain. For example, there a=
re more factors such as software failure, server over-utilization, instance=
 migration that potentially cause VNF instance transition or failure. Altho=
ugh a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address the reliability o=
f a single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the reliability of=
 a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For example, how does =
an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace =
the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? How does an instance of VNF#1 know th=
e state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce policy=
 for reliability like load sharing, switch before break? How is the service=
 state of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with =
backup instances?

The overall problem space can be further breakdown to the following study i=
tems:

-          Signalling to handle reliability and instance transition require=
ments

o   Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling=
, moving) notification, backup announcement;

o   Service state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format,=
 location and mechanism to access state data) within VNF pool;

o   Obtaining underlying network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);

o   Signalling to CMS for instance deployment reflecting reliability requir=
ements (e.g. distribution of instances on different VMs or hypervisors);

-          Transport characteristics

o   Identify and analyze reliable transport characteristics for control pla=
ne traffic;

o   Analysis of transport security characteristics to provide protection ag=
ainst known threats, and identification of an appropriate trust model;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Thanks.

-Ning

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please review the below brief v=
ersion of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and feedback with your comments. I ho=
pe this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool Charter, by</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB">carving out real problems and work items.</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same fu=
nction as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually ins=
tantiated as a cluster of software instances
 running on general purpose servers via virtualization platform. In an envi=
ronment based on VNFs, a network service is typically realized by a chain o=
f VNFs where the instances of adjacent VNFs are preferably directly connect=
ed.</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure beyond those inherent=
 in a single dedicated server, and therefore additional challenges on relia=
bility. By reliability, we mean the ability
 of a VNF chain to continue function when having transition or failure with=
in the chain. For example, there are more factors such as software failure,=
 server over-utilization, instance migration that potentially cause VNF ins=
tance transition or failure. Although
 a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address the reliability of a=
 single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the reliability of a =
VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For example, how does an =
instance of VNF#1 know which instance
 in the pool of VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? Ho=
w does an instance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it con=
nects to in order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, swit=
ch before break? How is the service
 state of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with =
backup instances?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The overall problem space can b=
e further breakdown to the following study items:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Signalling to handle re=
liability and instance transition requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Signalling between VNF =
pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling, moving) notification, bac=
kup announcement;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Service state managemen=
t (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format, location and mechanism to =
access state data) within VNF pool;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Obtaining underlying ne=
twork information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Signalling to CMS for i=
nstance deployment reflecting reliability requirements (e.g. distribution o=
f instances on different VMs or hypervisors);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Transport characteristi=
cs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Identify and analyze re=
liable transport
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">characteristics</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"> for=
 control plane traffic;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Analysis of </span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US">transport security characteristics to provide protection a=
gainst known threats, and identification of an appropriate trust model;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">-Ning<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
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From: Mukhtiar Shaikh <mshaikh@Brocade.com>
To: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:49:30 -0800
Thread-Topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Thanks Ning. I think this is a good start and captures most of the points w=
e have discussed so far. Just a few comments for clarity..

I think there is a subtle difference between reliability and availability o=
f a system or in this case VNF. I am just wondering if the problem we are a=
fter is reliability of VNF or the availability of VNF and the service it de=
livers. Considering basic assumption in NFV environment that is to ensure s=
ervice continuity of a network function running on general purpose servers =
which by design are not as "reliable" as hardware based systems. This to me=
 implies service availability to be more relevant than reliability. We also=
 discussed this briefly during the Bar BoF ..not sure what the feedback was=
 on this. Either way, it may be in the semantics but want to make sure we a=
re stating reliability in the right context.

Also, I am not too clear on what is meant by "=85replace the instance of VN=
F#2=85" in the following text. Are we assuming that VNF#2 is pre-designated=
 as backup for VNF#1 and when a component or instance within VNF#1 cluster =
fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within VNF#2? If that's the c=
ase, we should state something like.."Multiple pools for multiple VNFs back=
ing up each other or sharing load.."

"For example, how does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool=
 of VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to?  How does an i=
nstance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in=
 order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, switch before b=
reak? How is the service state of an instance held and accessed for efficie=
nt synchronization with backup instances?"

Thanks,
-Mukhtiar

From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com<mailto:zongning@huawei.com>>
Date: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:11 AM
To: "vnfpool@ietf.org<mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org>" <vnfpool@ietf.org<mailto:vn=
fpool@ietf.org>>
Subject: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement

Hi,

Please review the below brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and fe=
edback with your comments. I hope this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool=
 Charter, bycarving out real problems and work items.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same func=
tion as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually insta=
ntiated as a cluster of software instances running on general purpose serve=
rs via virtualization platform. In an environment based on VNFs, a network =
service is typically realized by a chain of VNFs where the instances of adj=
acent VNFs are preferably directly connected.

A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure beyond those inherent i=
n a single dedicated server, and therefore additional challenges on reliabi=
lity. By reliability, we mean the ability of a VNF chain to continue functi=
on when having transition or failure within the chain. For example, there a=
re more factors such as software failure, server over-utilization, instance=
 migration that potentially cause VNF instance transition or failure. Altho=
ugh a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address the reliability o=
f a single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the reliability of=
 a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For example, how does =
an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace =
the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? How does an instance of VNF#1 know th=
e state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce policy=
 for reliability like load sharing, switch before break? How is the service=
 state of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with =
backup instances?

The overall problem space can be further breakdown to the following study i=
tems:

-          Signalling to handle reliability and instance transition require=
ments

o   Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling=
, moving) notification, backup announcement;

o   Service state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format,=
 location and mechanism to access state data) within VNF pool;

o   Obtaining underlying network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);

o   Signalling to CMS for instance deployment reflecting reliability requir=
ements (e.g. distribution of instances on different VMs or hypervisors);

-          Transport characteristics

o   Identify and analyze reliable transport characteristics for control pla=
ne traffic;

o   Analysis of transport security characteristics to provide protection ag=
ainst known threats, and identification of an appropriate trust model;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Thanks.

-Ning

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<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3DWindows-1=
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 -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14p=
x; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>Thanks Ning. I think this is a =
good start and captures most of the points we have discussed so far. Just a=
 few comments for clarity..</div><div><br></div><div>I think there is a sub=
tle difference between reliability and availability of a system or in this =
case VNF. I am just wondering if the problem we are after is reliability of=
 VNF or the availability of VNF and the service it delivers. Considering ba=
sic assumption in NFV environment that is to ensure service continuity of a=
 network function running on general purpose servers which by design are no=
t as &quot;reliable&quot; as hardware based systems. This to me implies ser=
vice availability to be more relevant than reliability.&nbsp;We also discus=
sed this briefly&nbsp;during the Bar BoF ..not sure what the feedback was o=
n this.&nbsp;Either way, it may be in the semantics but want to make sure w=
e are stating reliability in the right context.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><=
div>Also, I am not too clear on what is meant by &quot;=85replace the insta=
nce of VNF#2=85&quot; in the following text.&nbsp;Are we assuming that VNF#=
2 is pre-designated as backup for VNF#1 and when a component or instance wi=
thin VNF#1 cluster fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within VNF=
#2? If that's the case, we should state something like..&quot;Multiple pool=
s for multiple VNFs backing up each other or sharing load..&quot;</div><div=
><br></div><div><span style=3D"text-align: justify; ">&quot;For example, ho=
w does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of <b>VNF#2 wil=
l replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to</b>? &nbsp;</span><span styl=
e=3D"text-align: justify; ">How does an instance of VNF#1 know the state of=
 instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce policy for relia=
bility like load sharing, switch before break? How is the service state of =
an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with backup ins=
tances?&quot;</span></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>-Mukhtiar</=
div><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: m=
edium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0i=
n; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium =
none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span> Zong=
ning &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawei.com">zongning@huawei.com</a>&gt;=
<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Thursday, November 21, 2=
013 1:11 AM<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span> &quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight=
:bold">Subject: </span> [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement<br></div><div>=
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-trim:punctuation"><div class=3D"WordSecti=
on1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please review the below brief versi=
on of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and feedback with your comments. I hope t=
his text can serve as a base of VNF Pool Charter, by</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"></span><span lang=3D"EN-GB">carving out real problems and work items.<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides t=
he same function as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is u=
sually instantiated as a cluster of software instances
 running on general purpose servers via virtualization platform. In an envi=
ronment based on VNFs, a network service is typically realized by a chain o=
f VNFs where the instances of adjacent VNFs are preferably directly connect=
ed.</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-spa=
n"><span lang=3D"EN-US">A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure=
 beyond those inherent in a single dedicated server, and therefore addition=
al challenges on reliability. By reliability, we mean the ability
 of a VNF chain to continue function when having transition or failure with=
in the chain. For example, there are more factors such as software failure,=
 server over-utilization, instance migration that potentially cause VNF ins=
tance transition or failure. Although
 a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address the reliability of a=
 single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the reliability of a =
VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For example, how does an =
instance of VNF#1 know which instance
 in the pool of VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? Ho=
w does an instance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it con=
nects to in order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, swit=
ch before break? How is the service
 state of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with =
backup instances?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">The overall problem space can be further breakdown to the follo=
wing study items:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=
=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><=
span lang=3D"EN-GB"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font-st=
yle: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; lin=
e-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Signalling to handl=
e reliability and instance transition requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;=
mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" styl=
e=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o=
<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: norma=
l; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Signalling between =
VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling, moving) notification,=
 backup announcement;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" st=
yle=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--=
[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font-style: no=
rmal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-heigh=
t: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Service state manag=
ement (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format, location and mechanism=
 to access state data) within VNF pool;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0=
 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=
=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-siz=
e: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Obtaining underlyin=
g network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"M=
soListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l=
0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span styl=
e=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-si=
ze: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Signalling to CMS f=
or instance deployment reflecting reliability requirements (e.g. distributi=
on of instances on different VMs or hypervisors);<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 l=
fo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">-<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weig=
ht: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Ro=
man'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Transport character=
istics<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-l=
eft:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLis=
ts]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-vari=
ant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font=
-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Identify and analyz=
e reliable transport
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">characteristics</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"> for=
 control plane traffic;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" =
style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1"><!=
--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-hei=
ght: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Analysis of </span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US">transport security characteristics to provide protecti=
on against known threats, and identification of an appropriate trust model;=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-GB">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Thanks.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">-Ning<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div></div></div></span></body></html>

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From daniel@olddog.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 05:46:34 2013
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From: "Daniel King" <daniel@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Melinda Shore'" <melinda.shore@gmail.com>, "'Diego R. Lopez'" <diego@tid.es>
References: <52844200.5000006@gmail.com> <528449BA.9000008@gmail.com>	<B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC6667792582E5F8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>	<FCD5C930-8F3C-4428-B547-4C6E0EEDA11E@tid.es> <5286ED12.5030801@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up
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Hi All, 

Just a follow-up comment on Melinda's point. The generalized pooling
mechanism is discussed in an earlier document:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-dreibholz-vnfpool-rserpool-applic-00

"This draft describes the application of Reliable Server Pooling (RSerPool)
for Virtual Network Function Resource Pooling (VNFPOOL)."

Although we should also be careful not to bias the problem statement,
requirements discussion and subsequent architecture, by focusing on solution
work (existing or to be extended) too early. 

Br, Dan. 

-----Original Message-----
From: vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Melinda Shore
Sent: 16 November 2013 03:57
To: Diego R. Lopez
Cc: vnfpool@ietf.org; Zongning
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up

On 11/14/13 4:54 AM, Diego R. Lopez wrote:
> Looking at the definition below I am asking myself whether the pooling 
> mechanisms could be generally applicable to any network function, so 
> we could be talking about applying those mechanisms to the resiliency 
> of the elements in a service graph (or SFC, if you
> like...)

There's existing IETF technology (rserpool) to provide a generalized pooling
mechanism.  Too general, and it's probably been overtaken by events.

In order to start the work we need to demonstrate that we can finish the
work, and that means (among other things) no ocean-boiling.
Focus is extremely important.

Melinda
_______________________________________________
vnfpool mailing list
vnfpool@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vnfpool


From daniel@olddog.co.uk  Sun Nov 24 05:53:59 2013
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Ning, 

 

Can I suggest a public wiki, google doc or github text file to capture the
current version of the vnfpool problem statement and subsequent
requirements, including signaling? It would make it easier for new list
members to catch-up with discussions and see the current proposal. 

 

Br, Dan. 

 


From: vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Zongning
Sent: 15 November 2013 01:10
To: Linda Dunbar; vnfpool@ietf.org
Cc: Martin Stiemerling
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] Real Problem of VNFpool

 

Hi, Linda,

 

Thank you for the text - which I agree is the more heuristic way to
understand real problem. :) The bullets you listed are actually important
issues in "signaling part" in the bar BoF summary.

Let's start from this text and see how folks would comment.

 

-Ning

 

From: Linda Dunbar 
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 12:47 AM
To: Zongning; vnfpool@ietf.org <mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org> 
Cc: Martin Stiemerling
Subject: Real Problem of VNFpool

 

I feel the bullets listed below are more along the line of the needed
mechanisms to solve the problem, but not the problem itself. 

 

Here is the real problem: 

 

In a nutshell, NFV Reliability (or VNFpool) is to address higher failure
rate of service instances in NFV environment. For Performance reason, it is
better for service instances to be directly connected, as shown below. 

But, instances can fail, over-utilized, or moved.

.      How do instances of Function-1 know which instance in the pool of
Function-2 will be the one replacing the failed instance? 

.      Who is responsible for keeping the state of next available instances
in the pool of next network function? 

.      Who is responsible for keeping the state of the upstream instances?  

.      What is the mechanism for each "Service Pool manager" to communicate
with each other? 

 

 



 

 

 

 

Linda  

 

 

 

 

From: vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org>
[mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zongning
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:52 AM
To: vnfpool@ietf.org <mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org> 
Subject: [vnfpool] bar BoF summary

 

Hi,

 

First of all, thank you guys for attending VNF Pool bar BoF in last IETF
week. I believe most of us have understand the general problem aspects. In
order to progress our work by carving out a set of detailed problems to be
addressed in IETF, I list the following problem bullets. Please review the
bullets and let me know your opinions (comments, suggestions, or even simply
supports :)).

 

Summary on Problems:

-          Signalling to handle VNF resiliency and instance transition
requirements

o   Signalling from VNF pool manager to CMS for VNF instance deployment
reflecting resiliency requirements (e.g. number and distribution of
instances running on different VMs or hypervisors);

o   Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. failure, state change,
scaling, moving) notification, backup announcement;

o   State management (e.g. synchronizing service states between
active/standby, or multiple actives for load sharing) within VNF pool;

-          Transport characteristics

o   Reliable transport protocols (e.g. MPTCP, SCTP) underlying the above
signalling;

o   Security protocols;

-          Better coordination of VNF instance deployment with underlying
network information, performed by VNF pool manager

o   ALTO, I2RS;

-          Analyze resiliency mechanisms complimentary to Service Function
Chaining (SFC)

 

As more detailed background, I enclosed a VNF Pool diagram in attachment.
For those who has difficulty on opening the attachment, here are major
description:

.Multiple pools for multiple VNFs, with each pool containing a group of VNF
instances providing same network function;

.Each pool has a manager to facilitate intra-pool resiliency, e.g. backup
instance selection, service state synchronization;

.Inter-pool resiliency (e.g. instance transition notification) can be
achieved by pool managers and/or instances from adjacent pools.

 

Thanks.

 

-Ning


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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Ning,=
 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Can =
I suggest a public wiki, google doc or github text file to capture the =
current version of the vnfpool problem statement and subsequent =
requirements, including </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>signaling? It would =
make it easier for new list members to catch-up with discussions and see =
the current proposal. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Br, Dan. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></a></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org =
[mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Zongning<br><b>Sent:</b> 15 November 2013 01:10<br><b>To:</b> Linda =
Dunbar; vnfpool@ietf.org<br><b>Cc:</b> Martin =
Stiemerling<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [vnfpool] Real Problem of =
VNFpool<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Hi, =
Linda,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Thank you for the =
text &#8211; which I agree is the more heuristic way to understand real =
problem. </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>=
J</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'> The bullets you =
listed are actually important issues in &#8220;signaling part&#8221; in =
the bar BoF summary.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Let&#8217;s start =
from this text and see how folks would =
comment&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>-Ning<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'> Linda Dunbar <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 =
12:47 AM<br><b>To:</b> Zongning; <a =
href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b> =
Martin Stiemerling<br><b>Subject:</b> Real Problem of =
VNFpool<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>I =
feel the bullets listed below are more along the line of the needed =
mechanisms to solve the problem, but not the problem itself. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><u><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Here =
is the real problem: <o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>In a nutshell, =
NFV Reliability (or VNFpool) is to address higher failure rate of =
service instances in NFV environment. For Performance reason, it is =
better for service instances to be directly connected, as shown below. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>But, instances =
can fail, over-utilized, or moved&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&#8226;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>How do =
instances of Function-1 know which instance in the pool of Function-2 =
will be the one replacing the failed instance? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&#8226;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Who is =
responsible for keeping the state of next available instances in the =
pool of next network function? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&#8226;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Who is =
responsible for keeping the state of the upstream instances?&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText =
style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Times New =
Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&#8226;<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>What is the =
mechanism for each &#8220;Service Pool manager&#8221; to communicate =
with each other? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><img =
border=3D0 width=3D670 height=3D240 id=3D"_x0000_i1035" =
src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CEE91C.92AE0FC0"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Consolas;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Linda=
 &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt'><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-l=
anguage:ZH-CN'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org">vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org<=
/a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Zongning<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November =
13, 2013 12:52 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =
[vnfpool] bar BoF summary<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>First of all, thank you guys for =
attending VNF Pool bar BoF in last IETF week. I believe most of us have =
understand the general problem aspects. In order to progress our work by =
carving out a set of detailed problems to be addressed in IETF, I list =
the following problem bullets. Please review the bullets and let me know =
your opinions (comments, suggestions, or even simply supports =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>J</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Summary on =
Problems:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Signalling to handle VNF =
resiliency and instance transition requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New";color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Signalling from VNF pool =
manager to CMS for VNF instance deployment reflecting resiliency =
requirements (e.g. number and distribution of instances running on =
different VMs or hypervisors);<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New";color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Signalling between VNF =
pools for transition (e.g. failure, state change, scaling, moving) =
notification, backup announcement;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New";color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>State management (e.g. =
synchronizing service states between active/standby, or multiple actives =
for load sharing) within VNF pool;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Transport =
characteristics<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New";color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Reliable transport =
protocols (e.g. MPTCP, SCTP) underlying the above =
signalling;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New";color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Security =
protocols;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Better coordination of =
VNF instance deployment with underlying network information, performed =
by VNF pool manager<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 =
lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New";color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>ALTO, =
I2RS;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4'><![if =
!supportLists]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><span =
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'color:red;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Analyze resiliency =
mechanisms complimentary to Service Function Chaining =
(SFC)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>As more =
detailed background, I enclosed a VNF Pool diagram in attachment. For =
those who has difficulty on opening the attachment, here are major =
description:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DDefault =
style=3D'margin-bottom:6.4pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:window=
text;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&#8226;Multiple pools for multiple =
VNFs, with each pool containing a group of VNF instances providing same =
network function;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DDefault =
style=3D'margin-bottom:6.4pt'><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:window=
text;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&#8226;Each pool has a manager to =
facilitate intra-pool resiliency, e.g. backup instance selection, =
service state synchronization;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DDefault><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:window=
text;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>&#8226;Inter-pool resiliency (e.g. =
instance transition notification) can be achieved by pool managers =
and/or instances from adjacent pools.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN'>-Ning<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></d=
iv></div></body></html>
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From zongning@huawei.com  Sun Nov 24 19:54:24 2013
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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: Mukhtiar Shaikh <mshaikh@Brocade.com>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Hi, Mukhtiar,

Please see inline.

From: Mukhtiar Shaikh [mailto:mshaikh@Brocade.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:50 AM
To: Zongning; vnfpool@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement

Thanks Ning. I think this is a good start and captures most of the points w=
e have discussed so far. Just a few comments for clarity..

I think there is a subtle difference between reliability and availability o=
f a system or in this case VNF. I am just wondering if the problem we are a=
fter is reliability of VNF or the availability of VNF and the service it de=
livers. Considering basic assumption in NFV environment that is to ensure s=
ervice continuity of a network function running on general purpose servers =
which by design are not as "reliable" as hardware based systems. This to me=
 implies service availability to be more relevant than reliability. We also=
 discussed this briefly during the Bar BoF ..not sure what the feedback was=
 on this. Either way, it may be in the semantics but want to make sure we a=
re stating reliability in the right context.

[Ning] I agree with you that there is difference between these two goals. I=
 am little bit conservative on addressing whole service availability as it'=
s affected by too many factors covering elements of many layers - from hard=
ware to application. My personal idea is to keep our problem narrowed on th=
e reliability of VNF chain itself (as building block of service) to get thi=
s piece of work chartered. Actually we have considered state synchronizatio=
n in proposal. But I am not sure how many further gaps towards real service=
 availability need to be verified as suitable IETF work, at this moment of =
time. Maybe we could put them as future work?

Also, I am not too clear on what is meant by "...replace the instance of VN=
F#2..." in the following text. Are we assuming that VNF#2 is pre-designated=
 as backup for VNF#1 and when a component or instance within VNF#1 cluster =
fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within VNF#2? If that's the c=
ase, we should state something like.."Multiple pools for multiple VNFs back=
ing up each other or sharing load.."

[Ning] VNF#1 and VNF#2 are different functions like vFW and vLB. We assume =
they are executed one after another, so a certain instance of VNF#1 actuall=
y connects to a certain instance of VNF#2, in a specific session. The backu=
p instance and the instance to be backup (or replaced) are in the same pool=
 (i.e. belong to same function). Please refer to the good picture posted by=
 Linda :). Anyway, sorry for the confusion. I would reword the examples to =
make them more clear.
[cid:image001.jpg@01CEE126.DE95D010]

"For example, how does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool=
 of VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to?  How does an i=
nstance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in=
 order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, switch before b=
reak? How is the service state of an instance held and accessed for efficie=
nt synchronization with backup instances?"

Thanks,
-Mukhtiar

From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com<mailto:zongning@huawei.com>>
Date: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:11 AM
To: "vnfpool@ietf.org<mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org>" <vnfpool@ietf.org<mailto:vn=
fpool@ietf.org>>
Subject: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement

Hi,

Please review the below brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and fe=
edback with your comments. I hope this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool=
 Charter, bycarving out real problems and work items.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same func=
tion as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually insta=
ntiated as a cluster of software instances running on general purpose serve=
rs via virtualization platform. In an environment based on VNFs, a network =
service is typically realized by a chain of VNFs where the instances of adj=
acent VNFs are preferably directly connected.

A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure beyond those inherent i=
n a single dedicated server, and therefore additional challenges on reliabi=
lity. By reliability, we mean the ability of a VNF chain to continue functi=
on when having transition or failure within the chain. For example, there a=
re more factors such as software failure, server over-utilization, instance=
 migration that potentially cause VNF instance transition or failure. Altho=
ugh a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address the reliability o=
f a single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the reliability of=
 a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For example, how does =
an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace =
the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? How does an instance of VNF#1 know th=
e state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce policy=
 for reliability like load sharing, switch before break? How is the service=
 state of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with =
backup instances?

The overall problem space can be further breakdown to the following study i=
tems:

-          Signalling to handle reliability and instance transition require=
ments

o   Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling=
, moving) notification, backup announcement;

o   Service state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format,=
 location and mechanism to access state data) within VNF pool;

o   Obtaining underlying network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);

o   Signalling to CMS for instance deployment reflecting reliability requir=
ements (e.g. distribution of instances on different VMs or hypervisors);

-          Transport characteristics

o   Identify and analyze reliable transport characteristics for control pla=
ne traffic;

o   Analysis of transport security characteristics to provide protection ag=
ainst known threats, and identification of an appropriate trust model;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Thanks.

-Ning

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</head>
<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-t=
rim:punctuation;word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line=
-break: after-white-space">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Muk=
htiar,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Please =
see inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Mukhtiar Sha=
ikh [mailto:mshaikh@Brocade.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zongning; vnfpool@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Thanks Ni=
ng. I think this is a good start and captures most of the points we have di=
scussed so far. Just a few comments for clarity..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">I think t=
here is a subtle difference between reliability and availability of a syste=
m or in this case VNF. I am just wondering if the problem we are after is r=
eliability of VNF or the availability
 of VNF and the service it delivers. Considering basic assumption in NFV en=
vironment that is to ensure service continuity of a network function runnin=
g on general purpose servers which by design are not as &quot;reliable&quot=
; as hardware based systems. This to me implies
 service availability to be more relevant than reliability.&nbsp;We also di=
scussed this briefly&nbsp;during the Bar BoF ..not sure what the feedback w=
as on this.&nbsp;Either way, it may be in the semantics but want to make su=
re we are stating reliability in the right context.&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Ning] =
I agree with you that there is difference between these two goals. I am lit=
tle bit conservative on addressing whole service availability as it&#8217;s=
 affected by too many factors covering elements
 of many layers &#8211; from hardware to application. My personal idea is t=
o keep our problem narrowed on the reliability of VNF chain itself (as buil=
ding block of service) to get this piece of work chartered. Actually we hav=
e considered state synchronization in
 proposal. But I am not sure how many further gaps towards real service ava=
ilability need to be verified as suitable IETF work, at this moment of time=
. Maybe we could put them as future work?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Also, I a=
m not too clear on what is meant by &quot;&#8230;replace the instance of VN=
F#2&#8230;&quot; in the following text.&nbsp;Are we assuming that VNF#2 is =
pre-designated as backup for VNF#1 and when a component or instance
 within VNF#1 cluster fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within =
VNF#2? If that's the case, we should state something like..&quot;Multiple p=
ools for multiple VNFs backing up each other or sharing load..&quot;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Ning] =
VNF#1 and VNF#2 are different functions like vFW and vLB. We assume they ar=
e executed one after another, so a certain instance of VNF#1 actually conne=
cts to a certain instance of VNF#2, in
 a specific session. The backup instance and the instance to be backup (or =
replaced) are in the same pool (i.e. belong to same function). Please refer=
 to the good picture posted by Linda
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">. Anyway, sorry for the=
 confusion. I would reword the examples to make them more clear.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><img wi=
dth=3D"670" height=3D"240" id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.jpg@0=
1CEE9D4.98895A40" alt=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CEE126.DE95D010"></span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&quot;For=
 example, how does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of
<b>VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to</b>? &nbsp;How d=
oes an instance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connec=
ts to in order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, switch =
before break? How is the service state
 of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with backup=
 instances?&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Thanks,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">-Mukhtiar=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:black">From:
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Zong=
ning &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawei.com">zongning@huawei.com</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:11 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>[vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Hi,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please re=
view the below brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and feedback wi=
th your comments. I hope this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool Charter,=
 by</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">carving
 out real problems and work items.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"color:black">A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB=
) provides the same function as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, L=
B), but is usually instantiated as a cluster
 of software instances running on general purpose servers via virtualizatio=
n platform. In an environment based on VNFs, a network service is typically=
 realized by a chain of VNFs where the instances of adjacent VNFs are prefe=
rably directly connected.</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"c=
olor:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"color:black">A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure=
 beyond those inherent in a single dedicated server, and therefore addition=
al challenges on reliability. By reliability,
 we mean the ability of a VNF chain to continue function when having transi=
tion or failure within the chain. For example, there are more factors such =
as software failure, server over-utilization, instance migration that poten=
tially cause VNF instance transition
 or failure. Although a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address=
 the reliability of a single VNF, there are still problems when addressing =
the reliability of a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For =
example, how does an instance of
 VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace the instance o=
f VNF#2 it connects to? How does an instance of VNF#1 know the state of ins=
tance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce policy for reliabili=
ty like load sharing, switch before
 break? How is the service state of an instance held and accessed for effic=
ient synchronization with backup instances?</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">The overa=
ll problem space can be further breakdown to the following study items:<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">S=
ignalling to handle reliability and instance transition requirements</span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"fo=
nt:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">S=
ignalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling, mov=
ing) notification, backup announcement;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"fo=
nt:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">S=
ervice state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format, loca=
tion and mechanism to access state data) within VNF pool;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"fo=
nt:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">O=
btaining underlying network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"fo=
nt:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">S=
ignalling to CMS for instance deployment reflecting reliability requirement=
s (e.g. distribution of instances on different VMs or hypervisors);</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">T=
ransport characteristics</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"fo=
nt:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">I=
dentify and analyze reliable transport
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">characteristics</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"> for control plane traffic;</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"fo=
nt:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">A=
nalysis of
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">transport security charac=
teristics to provide protection against known threats, and identification o=
f an appropriate trust model;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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--_004_B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC66677925854665nkgeml501mbschi_--

From melinda.shore@nomountain.net  Mon Nov 25 17:58:13 2013
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:58:10 -0900
From: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@nomountain.net>
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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On 11/22/13 4:49 PM, Mukhtiar Shaikh wrote:
> This to me implies service availability to be
> more relevant than reliability. We also discussed this briefly during
> the Bar BoF ..not sure what the feedback was on this. Either way, it may
> be in the semantics but want to make sure we are stating reliability in
> the right context. 

I think this is an issue, as well, although I think that both
"availability" and "reliability" suffer from the same problem
as "secure," "scalable," "simple," etc. - they can mean different
things in different technical contexts and so it's important to
have additional text explaining what that means in this particular
instance.

> "For example, how does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the
> pool of *VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to*?  How
> does an instance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it
> connects to in order to enforce policy for reliability like load
> sharing, switch before break? How is the service state of an instance
> held and accessed for efficient synchronization with backup instances?"

The latter is one of the as-yet unsolved problems (in the IETF)
that will need to be addressed.  One of the things that's changed
since rserpool was doing its work is that there's now a set of
publicly-available technologies for doing things look very much
like this problem.

The deadline for BOF proposals for the next meeting is rather short
and I think it would be useful over the next few weeks to concentrate
on putting together a successful proposal.

Melinda

-- 
Melinda Shore
No Mountain Software
melinda.shore@nomountain.net

"Software longa, hardware brevis."

From yokota@kddilabs.jp  Mon Nov 25 18:59:57 2013
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<html>
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    <font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Hi Ning and all,<br>
      <br>
      The proposed PS is a very good starting point covering major
      issues for the goal of VNF pool. One thing that I could add is the
      synchronization between the vNF migration/replacement and routing
      to make the relevant flows forwarded to the new location. The
      challenge is that the VMs/severs in a pool could be deployed over
      topologically different networks (in the physical world) and VNF
      migration could involve topologically independent routing. There
      are multiple ways to do it, but we should first generalize this
      issue and specify a common mechanism that may leverage existing
      ones.<br>
      <br>
      If this is already covered, that's fine. If some additional text
      is useful, the following could be a summary:<br>
      <br>
      o Synchronization between vNF migration and flow forwarding, which
      may require topologically independent routing in the physical
      transport network; <br>
      <br>
      There is a discussion about "reliability" and "availability" in
      another thread and I think this is also an issue in ETSI NFV. We
      need to define them either in this group or NFV to share the same
      view.<br>
      <br>
      Regards,</font><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
    </font>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Hidetoshi Yokota

KDDI R&amp;D Laboratories, Inc.
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:e-mail:yokota@kddilabs.jp">e-mail:yokota@kddilabs.jp</a></pre>
    <font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">(2013/11/21 18:11), Zongning wrote:<br>
    </div>
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Please review the below
            brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and feedback
            with your comments. I hope this text can serve as a base of
            VNF Pool Charter, by</span><span lang="EN-US">
          </span><span lang="EN-GB">carving out real problems and work
            items.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">===========================================================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span
              lang="EN-US">A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g.
              vFW, vLB) provides the same function as the equivalent
              network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually
              instantiated as a cluster of software instances running on
              general purpose servers via virtualization platform. In an
              environment based on VNFs, a network service is typically
              realized by a chain of VNFs where the instances of
              adjacent VNFs are preferably directly connected.</span></span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span
              lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span
              lang="EN-US">A VNF chain introduces additional points of
              failure beyond those inherent in a single dedicated
              server, and therefore additional challenges on
              reliability. By reliability, we mean the ability of a VNF
              chain to continue function when having transition or
              failure within the chain. For example, there are more
              factors such as software failure, server over-utilization,
              instance migration that potentially cause VNF instance
              transition or failure. Although a general pooling
              mechanism can be applied to address the reliability of a
              single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the
              reliability of a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for
              multiple VNFs. For example, how does an instance of VNF#1
              know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace the
              instance of VNF#2 it connects to? How does an instance of
              VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects
              to in order to enforce policy for reliability like load
              sharing, switch before break? How is the service state of
              an instance held and accessed for efficient
              synchronization with backup instances?<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">The overall problem
            space can be further breakdown to the following study items:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            lang="EN-GB"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span
                style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-GB">Signalling
            to handle reliability and instance transition requirements<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
          level2 lfo1">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-GB"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-GB">Signalling
            between VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change,
            scaling, moving) notification, backup announcement;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
          level2 lfo1">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-GB"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-GB">Service
            state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data
            format, location and mechanism to access state data) within
            VNF pool;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
          level2 lfo1">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-GB"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-GB">Obtaining
            underlying network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
          level2 lfo1">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-GB"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-GB">Signalling
            to CMS for instance deployment reflecting reliability
            requirements (e.g. distribution of instances on different
            VMs or hypervisors);<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            lang="EN-GB"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">-<span
                style="font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-GB">Transport
            characteristics<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
          level2 lfo1">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-GB"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-GB">Identify
            and analyze reliable transport
          </span><span lang="EN-US">characteristics</span><span
            lang="EN-GB"> for control plane traffic;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoListParagraph"
          style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
          level2 lfo1">
          <!--[if !supportLists]--><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-GB"><span
              style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
                &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
              </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN-GB">Analysis
            of </span><span lang="EN-US">transport security
            characteristics to provide protection against known threats,
            and identification of an appropriate trust model;</span><span
            lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">===========================================================================================<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">-Ning<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
vnfpool mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vnfpool">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vnfpool</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
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From zongning@huawei.com  Mon Nov 25 19:47:30 2013
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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: Hidetoshi Yokota <yokota@kddilabs.jp>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 03:47:19 +0000
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References: <B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC6667792584C1A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <52940EB0.6040601@kddilabs.jp>
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Hi, Hidetoshi,

Thanks for your comments. Please see inline.

From: vnfpool [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hidetoshi Yoko=
ta
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:00 AM
To: vnfpool@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement

Hi Ning and all,

The proposed PS is a very good starting point covering major issues for the=
 goal of VNF pool. One thing that I could add is the synchronization betwee=
n the vNF migration/replacement and routing to make the relevant flows forw=
arded to the new location. The challenge is that the VMs/severs in a pool c=
ould be deployed over topologically different networks (in the physical wor=
ld) and VNF migration could involve topologically independent routing. Ther=
e are multiple ways to do it, but we should first generalize this issue and=
 specify a common mechanism that may leverage existing ones.

If this is already covered, that's fine. If some additional text is useful,=
 the following could be a summary:

o Synchronization between vNF migration and flow forwarding, which may requ=
ire topologically independent routing in the physical transport network;

[Ning]: Yes, I agree with your point on instance migration. Actually we lis=
t service state synchronization in the proposed study items as below.

o    Service state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format=
, location and mechanism to access state data) within VNF pool;
Regarding the flow forwarding, as you pointed out, there are existing ways =
in IETF to do that. We probably need to do more investigation work.

There is a discussion about "reliability" and "availability" in another thr=
ead and I think this is also an issue in ETSI NFV. We need to define them e=
ither in this group or NFV to share the same view.



Regards,


--

Hidetoshi Yokota



KDDI R&D Laboratories, Inc.

e-mail:yokota@kddilabs.jp<mailto:e-mail:yokota@kddilabs.jp>

(2013/11/21 18:11), Zongning wrote:
Hi,

Please review the below brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and fe=
edback with your comments. I hope this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool=
 Charter, by carving out real problems and work items.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same func=
tion as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually insta=
ntiated as a cluster of software instances running on general purpose serve=
rs via virtualization platform. In an environment based on VNFs, a network =
service is typically realized by a chain of VNFs where the instances of adj=
acent VNFs are preferably directly connected.

A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure beyond those inherent i=
n a single dedicated server, and therefore additional challenges on reliabi=
lity. By reliability, we mean the ability of a VNF chain to continue functi=
on when having transition or failure within the chain. For example, there a=
re more factors such as software failure, server over-utilization, instance=
 migration that potentially cause VNF instance transition or failure. Altho=
ugh a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address the reliability o=
f a single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the reliability of=
 a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For example, how does =
an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace =
the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? How does an instance of VNF#1 know th=
e state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce policy=
 for reliability like load sharing, switch before break? How is the service=
 state of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with =
backup instances?

The overall problem space can be further breakdown to the following study i=
tems:

-          Signalling to handle reliability and instance transition require=
ments

o   Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling=
, moving) notification, backup announcement;

o   Service state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format,=
 location and mechanism to access state data) within VNF pool;

o   Obtaining underlying network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);

o   Signalling to CMS for instance deployment reflecting reliability requir=
ements (e.g. distribution of instances on different VMs or hypervisors);

-          Transport characteristics

o   Identify and analyze reliable transport characteristics for control pla=
ne traffic;

o   Analysis of transport security characteristics to provide protection ag=
ainst known threats, and identification of an appropriate trust model;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Thanks.

-Ning




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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Hid=
etoshi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks =
for your comments. Please see inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:windowtext">
 vnfpool [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Hidetoshi Yo=
kota<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> vnfpool@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helv=
etica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Ning and all,<br>
<br>
The proposed PS is a very good starting point covering major issues for the=
 goal of VNF pool. One thing that I could add is the synchronization betwee=
n the vNF migration/replacement and routing to make the relevant flows forw=
arded to the new location. The challenge
 is that the VMs/severs in a pool could be deployed over topologically diff=
erent networks (in the physical world) and VNF migration could involve topo=
logically independent routing. There are multiple ways to do it, but we sho=
uld first generalize this issue
 and specify a common mechanism that may leverage existing ones.<br>
<br>
If this is already covered, that's fine. If some additional text is useful,=
 the following could be a summary:<br>
<br>
o Synchronization between vNF migration and flow forwarding, which may requ=
ire topologically independent routing in the physical transport network;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Ning]:=
 Yes, I agree with your point on instance migration. Actually we list servi=
ce state synchronization in the proposed study items as below.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;line-he=
ight:105%;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#1F497D"><span style=3D=
"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5=
pt;line-height:105%;color:#1F497D">Service state management (e.g. synchroni=
zing method, state data format, location and mechanism to access state data=
) within VNF pool;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:26.25pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"color:#1F497D">Regarding the flow forwarding, as you pointed out, t=
here are existing ways in IETF to do that. We probably need to do more inve=
stigation work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helv=
etica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
There is a discussion about &quot;reliability&quot; and &quot;availability&=
quot; in another thread and I think this is also an issue in ETSI NFV. We n=
eed to define them either in this group or NFV to share the same view.</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Helv=
etica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hidetoshi Yokota<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">KDDI R&amp;D Laboratories, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:e-mail:yokota@kddilabs.jp">e-ma=
il:yokota@kddilabs.jp</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">(2013/11/21 18:11), Zongning wr=
ote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please review the below brief v=
ersion of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and feedback with your comments. I ho=
pe this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool Charter, by
</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB">carving out real problems and work items.</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same fu=
nction as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually ins=
tantiated as a cluster of software instances
 running on general purpose servers via virtualization platform. In an envi=
ronment based on VNFs, a network service is typically realized by a chain o=
f VNFs where the instances of adjacent VNFs are preferably directly connect=
ed.</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure beyond those inherent=
 in a single dedicated server, and therefore additional challenges on relia=
bility. By reliability, we mean the ability
 of a VNF chain to continue function when having transition or failure with=
in the chain. For example, there are more factors such as software failure,=
 server over-utilization, instance migration that potentially cause VNF ins=
tance transition or failure. Although
 a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address the reliability of a=
 single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the reliability of a =
VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For example, how does an =
instance of VNF#1 know which instance
 in the pool of VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? Ho=
w does an instance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it con=
nects to in order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, swit=
ch before break? How is the service
 state of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with =
backup instances?</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The overall problem space can b=
e further breakdown to the following study items:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Signalling to handle re=
liability and instance transition requirements</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Signalling between VNF =
pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling, moving) notification, bac=
kup announcement;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Service state managemen=
t (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format, location and mechanism to =
access state data) within VNF pool;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Obtaining underlying ne=
twork information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Signalling to CMS for i=
nstance deployment reflecting reliability requirements (e.g. distribution o=
f instances on different VMs or hypervisors);</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Transport characteristi=
cs</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Identify and analyze re=
liable transport
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">characteristics</span><span lang=3D"EN-GB"> for=
 control plane traffic;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courie=
r New&quot;"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &qu=
ot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Analysis of </span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US">transport security characteristics to provide protection a=
gainst known threats, and identification of an appropriate trust model;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">Thanks.</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB">-Ning</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS PGothic&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">vnfpool mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.=
org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/=
vnfpool">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vnfpool</a><o:p></o:p></span=
></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS PGothic&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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Thread-topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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References: <B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC6667792584C1A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <52940EB0.6040601@kddilabs.jp>
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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From: Mukhtiar Shaikh <mshaikh@Brocade.com>
To: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:23:56 -0800
Thread-Topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Hi Ning,

Sorry for the delay..please see my comments inline:

Thanks,
-Mukhtiar

From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com<mailto:zongning@huawei.com>>
Date: Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:54 PM
To: Mukhtiar Shaikh <mshaikh@brocade.com<mailto:mshaikh@brocade.com>>, "vnf=
pool@ietf.org<mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org>" <vnfpool@ietf.org<mailto:vnfpool@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement

Hi, Mukhtiar,

Please see inline.

From: Mukhtiar Shaikh [mailto:mshaikh@Brocade.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:50 AM
To: Zongning; vnfpool@ietf.org<mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement

Thanks Ning. I think this is a good start and captures most of the points w=
e have discussed so far. Just a few comments for clarity..

I think there is a subtle difference between reliability and availability o=
f a system or in this case VNF. I am just wondering if the problem we are a=
fter is reliability of VNF or the availability of VNF and the service it de=
livers. Considering basic assumption in NFV environment that is to ensure s=
ervice continuity of a network function running on general purpose servers =
which by design are not as "reliable" as hardware based systems. This to me=
 implies service availability to be more relevant than reliability. We also=
 discussed this briefly during the Bar BoF ..not sure what the feedback was=
 on this. Either way, it may be in the semantics but want to make sure we a=
re stating reliability in the right context.

[Ning] I agree with you that there is difference between these two goals. I=
 am little bit conservative on addressing whole service availability as it=
=92s affected by too many factors covering elements of many layers =96 from=
 hardware to application. My personal idea is to keep our problem narrowed =
on the reliability of VNF chain itself (as building block of service) to ge=
t this piece of work chartered. Actually we have considered state synchroni=
zation in proposal. But I am not sure how many further gaps towards real se=
rvice availability need to be verified as suitable IETF work, at this momen=
t of time. Maybe we could put them as future work?

I am ok with keeping the scope narrow and limiting it to reliability aspect=
s at this time.


Also, I am not too clear on what is meant by "=85replace the instance of VN=
F#2=85" in the following text. Are we assuming that VNF#2 is pre-designated=
 as backup for VNF#1 and when a component or instance within VNF#1 cluster =
fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within VNF#2? If that's the c=
ase, we should state something like.."Multiple pools for multiple VNFs back=
ing up each other or sharing load.."

[Ning] VNF#1 and VNF#2 are different functions like vFW and vLB. We assume =
they are executed one after another, so a certain instance of VNF#1 actuall=
y connects to a certain instance of VNF#2, in a specific session. The backu=
p instance and the instance to be backup (or replaced) are in the same pool=
 (i.e. belong to same function). Please refer to the good picture posted by=
 Linda :). Anyway, sorry for the confusion. I would reword the examples to =
make them more clear.

Ok I see..If the two VNFs are different functions that means one is not goi=
ng to be replaced with the other..I think the text is a bit confusing=85tha=
nks for the clarification.

[cid:image001.jpg@01CEE9D4.98895A40]

"For example, how does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool=
 of VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to?  How does an i=
nstance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in=
 order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, switch before b=
reak? How is the service state of an instance held and accessed for efficie=
nt synchronization with backup instances?"

Thanks,
-Mukhtiar

From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com<mailto:zongning@huawei.com>>
Date: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:11 AM
To: "vnfpool@ietf.org<mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org>" <vnfpool@ietf.org<mailto:vn=
fpool@ietf.org>>
Subject: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement

Hi,

Please review the below brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and fe=
edback with your comments. I hope this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool=
 Charter, bycarving out real problems and work items.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same func=
tion as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually insta=
ntiated as a cluster of software instances running on general purpose serve=
rs via virtualization platform. In an environment based on VNFs, a network =
service is typically realized by a chain of VNFs where the instances of adj=
acent VNFs are preferably directly connected.

A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure beyond those inherent i=
n a single dedicated server, and therefore additional challenges on reliabi=
lity. By reliability, we mean the ability of a VNF chain to continue functi=
on when having transition or failure within the chain. For example, there a=
re more factors such as software failure, server over-utilization, instance=
 migration that potentially cause VNF instance transition or failure. Altho=
ugh a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address the reliability o=
f a single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the reliability of=
 a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For example, how does =
an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace =
the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? How does an instance of VNF#1 know th=
e state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce policy=
 for reliability like load sharing, switch before break? How is the service=
 state of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with =
backup instances?

The overall problem space can be further breakdown to the following study i=
tems:

-          Signalling to handle reliability and instance transition require=
ments

o   Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling=
, moving) notification, backup announcement;

o   Service state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format,=
 location and mechanism to access state data) within VNF pool;

o   Obtaining underlying network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);

o   Signalling to CMS for instance deployment reflecting reliability requir=
ements (e.g. distribution of instances on different VMs or hypervisors);

-          Transport characteristics

o   Identify and analyze reliable transport characteristics for control pla=
ne traffic;

o   Analysis of transport security characteristics to provide protection ag=
ainst known threats, and identification of an appropriate trust model;
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Thanks.

-Ning

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 -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14p=
x; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>Hi Ning,</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Sorry for the delay..please see my comments inline:</div><div><br></div>=
<div>Thanks,</div><div>-Mukhtiar</div><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BO=
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nt-weight:bold">From: </span> Zongning &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawe=
i.com">zongning@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date=
: </span> Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:54 PM<br><span style=3D"font-weight:b=
old">To: </span> Mukhtiar Shaikh &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mshaikh@brocade.com"=
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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"2050" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=
=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-trim:punctuation;word-wrap: break-word;-w=
ebkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class=3D=
"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#=
1F497D">Hi, Mukhtiar,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Please see inline.=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div style=3D"border:none;border=
-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><div style=3D"border=
:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, san=
s-serif; "> Mukhtiar Shaikh [<a href=3D"mailto:mshaikh@Brocade.com">mailto:=
mshaikh@Brocade.com</a>]
<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:50 AM<br><b>To:</b> Zongning=
; <a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</=
b> Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></di=
v><p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Thanks Ning. I think this is a good sta=
rt and captures most of the points we have discussed so far. Just a few com=
ments for clarity..<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">I =
think there is a subtle difference between reliability and availability of =
a system or in this case VNF. I am just wondering if the problem we are aft=
er is reliability of VNF or the availability
 of VNF and the service it delivers. Considering basic assumption in NFV en=
vironment that is to ensure service continuity of a network function runnin=
g on general purpose servers which by design are not as &quot;reliable&quot=
; as hardware based systems. This to me implies
 service availability to be more relevant than reliability.&nbsp;We also di=
scussed this briefly&nbsp;during the Bar BoF ..not sure what the feedback w=
as on this.&nbsp;Either way, it may be in the semantics but want to make su=
re we are stating reliability in the right context.&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Ning]=
 I agree with you that there is difference between these two goals. I am li=
ttle bit conservative on addressing whole service availability as it=92s af=
fected by too many factors covering elements
 of many layers =96 from hardware to application. My personal idea is to ke=
ep our problem narrowed on the reliability of VNF chain itself (as building=
 block of service) to get this piece of work chartered. Actually we have co=
nsidered state synchronization in
 proposal. But I am not sure how many further gaps towards real service ava=
ilability need to be verified as suitable IETF work, at this moment of time=
. Maybe we could put them as future work?</span></p></div></div></div></div=
></div></span><div><br></div><div>I am ok with keeping the scope narrow and=
 limiting it to reliability aspects at this time.</div><div><br></div><span=
 id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"=
 xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas=
-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/=
2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN"=
 link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"text-justify-trim:punctuation;word=
-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-=
space"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:so=
lid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" sty=
le=3D"color:black">Also, I am not too clear on what is meant by &quot;=85re=
place the instance of VNF#2=85&quot; in the following text.&nbsp;Are we ass=
uming that VNF#2 is pre-designated as backup for VNF#1 and when a component=
 or instance
 within VNF#1 cluster fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within =
VNF#2? If that's the case, we should state something like..&quot;Multiple p=
ools for multiple VNFs backing up each other or sharing load..&quot;<o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Ning] VNF#1 and VNF#2 are differen=
t functions like vFW and vLB. We assume they are executed one after another=
, so a certain instance of VNF#1 actually connects to a certain instance of=
 VNF#2, in
 a specific session. The backup instance and the instance to be backup (or =
replaced) are in the same pool (i.e. belong to same function). Please refer=
 to the good picture posted by Linda
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">. Anyway, sorry for the=
 confusion. I would reword the examples to make them more clear.</span></p>=
</div></div></div></div></div></span><div><br></div><div>Ok I see..If the t=
wo VNFs are different functions that means one is not going to be replaced =
with the other..I think the text is a bit confusing=85thanks for the clarif=
ication.</div><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div xmlns:v=
=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:off=
ice:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m=3D"ht=
tp://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/=
TR/REC-html40"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"=
text-justify-trim:punctuation;word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: spac=
e;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><div s=
tyle=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt"=
><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"c=
olor:#1F497D"><img width=3D"670" height=3D"240" id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=
=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CEE9D4.98895A40" alt=3D"cid:image001.jpg@01CEE126.DE=
95D010"></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&quot;For example, how does an instance of VN=
F#1 know which instance in the pool of
<b>VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to</b>? &nbsp;How d=
oes an instance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connec=
ts to in order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, switch =
before break? How is the service state
 of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with backup=
 instances?&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Than=
ks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"color:black">-Mukhtiar<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p></div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt=
;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Zong=
ning &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawei.com">zongning@huawei.com</a>&gt;=
<br><b>Date: </b>Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:11 AM<br><b>To: </b>&quot;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org">vnfpool@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[vnfp=
ool] VNF Pool Problem Statement<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"color:black">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">Please review the below=
 brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and feedback with your commen=
ts. I hope this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool Charter, by</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">carving
 out real problems and work items.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"colo=
r:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"=
apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">A virtualized =
network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same function as the eq=
uivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually instantiated as a c=
luster
 of software instances running on general purpose servers via virtualizatio=
n platform. In an environment based on VNFs, a network service is typically=
 realized by a chain of VNFs where the instances of adjacent VNFs are prefe=
rably directly connected.</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:=
black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-st=
yle-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</span></span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span class=3D"apple-style-span"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"c=
olor:black">A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure beyond thos=
e inherent in a single dedicated server, and therefore additional challenge=
s on reliability. By reliability,
 we mean the ability of a VNF chain to continue function when having transi=
tion or failure within the chain. For example, there are more factors such =
as software failure, server over-utilization, instance migration that poten=
tially cause VNF instance transition
 or failure. Although a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address=
 the reliability of a single VNF, there are still problems when addressing =
the reliability of a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For =
example, how does an instance of
 VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace the instance o=
f VNF#2 it connects to? How does an instance of VNF#1 know the state of ins=
tance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce policy for reliabili=
ty like load sharing, switch before
 break? How is the service state of an instance held and accessed for effic=
ient synchronization with backup instances?</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">The overall probl=
em space can be further breakdown to the following study items:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-li=
st:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"c=
olor:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font-style: nor=
mal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height=
: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:blac=
k">Signalling to handle reliability and instance transition requirements</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso=
-list:l0 level2 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-lis=
t:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-we=
ight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:blac=
k">Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling,=
 moving) notification, backup announcement;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=
=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2"><!--[if=
 !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier N=
ew&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font-=
style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; l=
ine-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:blac=
k">Service state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format, =
location and mechanism to access state data) within VNF pool;</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoLi=
stParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 le=
vel2 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-fami=
ly:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<s=
pan style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;=
 font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:blac=
k">Obtaining underlying network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoL=
istParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 l=
evel2 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<=
span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal=
; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:blac=
k">Signalling to CMS for instance deployment reflecting reliability require=
ments (e.g. distribution of instances on different VMs or hypervisors);</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2=
"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><span=
 style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant=
: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-fa=
mily: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:blac=
k">Transport characteristics</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:blac=
k"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left=
:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]=
--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:=
black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: nor=
mal; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; ">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:blac=
k">Identify and analyze reliable transport
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">characteristics</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black"> for control plane traffic;</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list=
:l0 level2 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"fon=
t-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignor=
e">o<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: n=
ormal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';=
 ">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:blac=
k">Analysis of
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">transport security charac=
teristics to provide protection against known threats, and identification o=
f an appropriate trust model;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><=
span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:blac=
k">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">Tha=
nks.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"color:black">-Ning</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></span></body></html>

--_000_CEBA6172508FFmshaikhbrocadecom_--

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From: lingli deng <denglingli@gmail.com>
To: zongning@huawei.com, mshaikh@Brocade.com, vnfpool@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Hi Ning,


Thank you for the providing such a great starting point.

Following Mukhtia=A1=AFs question about VNF replacement across different po=
ols,
I have a further question:
By different pools, do you mean logical VNF pools managed by a single
manager, or do you mean physically separated resource pools at the same
time?


In other words, I would like to know if you are also considering the case
where different types of VNF instances are running on a single physical
device.



BR

Lingli



=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: vnfpool [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org
<vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org>] =B4=FA=B1=EDMukhtiar Shaikh
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C227=C8=D5 10:24
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Zongning; vnfpool@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement



Hi Ning,



Sorry for the delay..please see my comments inline:



Thanks,

-Mukhtiar



From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
Date: Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:54 PM
To: Mukhtiar Shaikh <mshaikh@brocade.com>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <
vnfpool@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement



Hi, Mukhtiar,



Please see inline.



From: Mukhtiar Shaikh [mailto:mshaikh@Brocade.com <mshaikh@Brocade.com>]
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:50 AM
To: Zongning; vnfpool@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement



Thanks Ning. I think this is a good start and captures most of the points
we have discussed so far. Just a few comments for clarity..



I think there is a subtle difference between reliability and availability
of a system or in this case VNF. I am just wondering if the problem we are
after is reliability of VNF or the availability of VNF and the service it
delivers. Considering basic assumption in NFV environment that is to ensure
service continuity of a network function running on general purpose servers
which by design are not as "reliable" as hardware based systems. This to me
implies service availability to be more relevant than reliability. We also
discussed this briefly during the Bar BoF ..not sure what the feedback was
on this. Either way, it may be in the semantics but want to make sure we
are stating reliability in the right context.



[Ning] I agree with you that there is difference between these two goals. I
am little bit conservative on addressing whole service availability as it=
=A1=AFs
affected by too many factors covering elements of many layers =A8C from
hardware to application. My personal idea is to keep our problem narrowed
on the reliability of VNF chain itself (as building block of service) to
get this piece of work chartered. Actually we have considered state
synchronization in proposal. But I am not sure how many further gaps
towards real service availability need to be verified as suitable IETF
work, at this moment of time. Maybe we could put them as future work?



I am ok with keeping the scope narrow and limiting it to reliability
aspects at this time.





Also, I am not too clear on what is meant by "=A1=ADreplace the instance of
VNF#2=A1=AD" in the following text. Are we assuming that VNF#2 is pre-desig=
nated
as backup for VNF#1 and when a component or instance within VNF#1 cluster
fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within VNF#2? If that's the
case, we should state something like.."Multiple pools for multiple VNFs
backing up each other or sharing load.."



[Ning] VNF#1 and VNF#2 are different functions like vFW and vLB. We assume
they are executed one after another, so a certain instance of VNF#1
actually connects to a certain instance of VNF#2, in a specific session.
The backup instance and the instance to be backup (or replaced) are in the
same pool (i.e. belong to same function). Please refer to the good picture
posted by Linda J. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. I would reword the
examples to make them more clear.



Ok I see..If the two VNFs are different functions that means one is not
going to be replaced with the other..I think the text is a bit
confusing=A1=ADthanks for the clarification.





"For example, how does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool
of VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to?  How does an
instance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to
in order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, switch before
break? How is the service state of an instance held and accessed for
efficient synchronization with backup instances?"



Thanks,

-Mukhtiar



From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
Date: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:11 AM
To: "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Subject: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement



Hi,



Please review the below brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and
feedback with your comments. I hope this text can serve as a base of VNF
Pool Charter, bycarving out real problems and work items.



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

A virtualized network function (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same
function as the equivalent network function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually
instantiated as a cluster of software instances running on general purpose
servers via virtualization platform. In an environment based on VNFs, a
network service is typically realized by a chain of VNFs where the
instances of adjacent VNFs are preferably directly connected.



A VNF chain introduces additional points of failure beyond those inherent
in a single dedicated server, and therefore additional challenges on
reliability. By reliability, we mean the ability of a VNF chain to continue
function when having transition or failure within the chain. For example,
there are more factors such as software failure, server over-utilization,
instance migration that potentially cause VNF instance transition or
failure. Although a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address the
reliability of a single VNF, there are still problems when addressing the
reliability of a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For
example, how does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of
VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? How does an
instance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to
in order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, switch before
break? How is the service state of an instance held and accessed for
efficient synchronization with backup instances?



The overall problem space can be further breakdown to the following study
items:

Signalling to handle reliability and instance transition requirements

Signalling between VNF pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling,
moving) notification, backup announcement;

Service state management (e.g. synchronizing method, state data format,
location and mechanism to access state data) within VNF pool;

Obtaining underlying network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);

Signalling to CMS for instance deployment reflecting reliability
requirements (e.g. distribution of instances on different VMs or
hypervisors);

Transport characteristics

Identify and analyze reliable transport characteristics for control plane
traffic;

Analysis of transport security characteristics to provide protection
against known threats, and identification of an appropriate trust model;

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



Thanks.



-Ning


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<div dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Hi Ning,=
</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Thank =
you for the providing such a great starting point.</font></font></span></di=
v><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri=
"></font></span>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font fa=
ce=3D"Calibri">Following Mukhtia&rsquo;s
question about VNF replacement across different pools, I have a further
question:</font></font></span></div><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=
=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><div style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">By dif=
ferent pools, do
you mean logical VNF pools managed by a single manager, or do you mean phys=
ically
separated resource pools at the same time?</font></font></span></div><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri"></font></font></spa=
n>&nbsp;</div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">In other=
 words, I would
like to know if you are also considering the case where different types of =
VNF
instances are running on a single physical device.</font></font></span></p>=
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">BR</font=
></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"=
>

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Lingli</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3"=
><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">: vnf=
pool [</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#00=
00ff" face=3D"Calibri">mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org</font></a><font face=
=3D"Calibri">] </font></span><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">=B4=FA=B1=ED</span></font><font size=3D"3"><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck" lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"> Mukhtiar Shaikh<br>

</font></span><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font f=
ace=3D"Calibri">: 2013</font></span><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:=
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font=
 face=3D"Calibri">11</font></span><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:=
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D4=C2</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font=
 face=3D"Calibri">27</font></span><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:=
=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C8=D5</span></font><font size=3D"3"><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck" lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"> 10:24<br>

</font></span><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=CA=D5=
=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></font><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font =
size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">: Zongning;
</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"=
3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool@ietf.org</font></a><br><font size=3D"3" face=3D=
"Calibri">
</font></span><font size=3D"3"><span style=3D"color:black;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><f=
ont face=3D"Calibri">: Re:
[vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement</font></span></font></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Hi Ning,=
</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Sorry fo=
r the
delay..please see my comments inline:</font></font></span></p><font color=
=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Thanks,<=
/font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">-Mukhtia=
r</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">From: Zongning=
 &lt;</font><a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawei.com"><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck;text-decoration:none"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">zongning@huawei.=
com</font></span></a><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt;<br>

Date: Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:54 PM<br>
To: Mukhtiar Shaikh &lt;</font><a href=3D"mailto:mshaikh@brocade.com"><span=
 style=3D"color:black;text-decoration:none"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibr=
i">mshaikh@brocade.com</font></span></a><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&=
gt;,
&quot;</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:black=
;text-decoration:none"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool@ietf.org</=
font></span></a><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&quot; &lt;</font><a href=
=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:black;text-decoration:non=
e"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool@ietf.org</font></span></a><fon=
t size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&gt;<br>

Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement</font></font></span></p><=
font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Hi, Mukh=
tiar,</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=
=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Please s=
ee inline.</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=
=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">From: Mukhtiar=
 Shaikh [</font><a href=3D"mailto:mshaikh@Brocade.com"><span style=3D"color=
:black;text-decoration:none"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">mailto:mshai=
kh@Brocade.com</font></span></a><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">]
<br>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:50 AM<br>
To: Zongning; </font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"col=
or:black;text-decoration:none"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool@ie=
tf.org</font></span></a><br><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement</font></font></span></p><=
font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Thanks N=
ing. I think
this is a good start and captures most of the points we have discussed so f=
ar.
Just a few comments for clarity..</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#0=
00000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">I think =
there is a
subtle difference between reliability and availability of a system or in th=
is
case VNF. I am just wondering if the problem we are after is reliability of=
 VNF
or the availability of VNF and the service it delivers. Considering basic
assumption in NFV environment that is to ensure service continuity of a net=
work
function running on general purpose servers which by design are not as
&quot;reliable&quot; as hardware based systems. This to me implies service
availability to be more relevant than reliability.&nbsp;We also discussed t=
his
briefly&nbsp;during the Bar BoF ..not sure what the feedback was on this.&n=
bsp;Either
way, it may be in the semantics but want to make sure we are stating
reliability in the right context.&nbsp;</font></font></span></p><font color=
=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">[Ning] I=
 agree with you
that there is difference between these two goals. I am little bit conservat=
ive
on addressing whole service availability as it&rsquo;s affected by too many=
 factors
covering elements of many layers &ndash; from hardware to application. My p=
ersonal
idea is to keep our problem narrowed on the reliability of VNF chain itself=
 (as
building block of service) to get this piece of work chartered. Actually we
have considered state synchronization in proposal. But I am not sure how ma=
ny
further gaps towards real service availability need to be verified as suita=
ble
IETF work, at this moment of time. Maybe we could put them as future work?<=
/font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">I am ok =
with keeping
the scope narrow and limiting it to reliability aspects at this time.</font=
></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"=
>

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Also, I =
am not too
clear on what is meant by &quot;&hellip;replace the instance of VNF#2&helli=
p;&quot; in the
following text.&nbsp;Are we assuming that VNF#2 is pre-designated as backup=
 for
VNF#1 and when a component or instance within VNF#1 cluster fails, it needs=
 to
be replaced by a component within VNF#2? If that&#39;s the case, we should =
state
something like..&quot;Multiple pools for multiple VNFs backing up each othe=
r or
sharing load..&quot;</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=
=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">[Ning] V=
NF#1 and VNF#2
are different functions like vFW and vLB. We assume they are executed one a=
fter
another, so a certain instance of VNF#1 actually connects to a certain inst=
ance
of VNF#2, in a specific session. The backup instance and the instance to be
backup (or replaced) are in the same pool (i.e. belong to same function).
Please refer to the good picture posted by Linda J. Anyway, sorry for the
confusion. I would reword the examples to make them more clear.</font></fon=
t></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Ok I see=
..If the two
VNFs are different functions that means one is not going to be replaced wit=
h
the other..I think the text is a bit confusing&hellip;thanks for the clarif=
ication.</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D=
"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">
=20
=20
 =20
 =20
 =20
 =20
 =20
 =20
 =20
 =20
 =20
 =20
 =20
 =20
=20
=20
=20

=20
</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&quot;Fo=
r example, how
does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will rep=
lace
the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? &nbsp;How does an instance of VNF#1 k=
now
the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce poli=
cy for
reliability like load sharing, switch before break? How is the service stat=
e of
an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronization with backup
instances?&quot;</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3"=
 face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Thanks,<=
/font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">-Mukhtia=
r</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">From: Zongning=
 &lt;</font><a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawei.com"><span style=3D"color:bla=
ck;text-decoration:none"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">zongning@huawei.=
com</font></span></a><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt;<br>

Date: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:11 AM<br>
To: &quot;</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:b=
lack;text-decoration:none"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool@ietf.o=
rg</font></span></a><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&quot;
&lt;</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:black;t=
ext-decoration:none"><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool@ietf.org</fo=
nt></span></a><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&gt;<br>
Subject: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement</font></font></span></p><font=
 color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Hi,</fon=
t></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5=
">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Please r=
eview the below
brief version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and feedback with your comment=
s. I
hope this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool Charter, bycarving out real
problems and work items.</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</font></font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><font size=3D"3"><font color=3D"#000000"><font face=3D"Calibri">A virt=
ualized network function (VNF) (e.g.
vFW, vLB) provides the same function as the equivalent network function (e.=
g.
FW, LB), but is usually instantiated as a cluster of software instances run=
ning
on general purpose servers via virtualization platform. In an environment b=
ased
on VNFs, a network service is typically realized by a chain of VNFs where t=
he
instances of adjacent VNFs are preferably directly connected.<span style=3D=
"color:black"></span></font></font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><font size=3D"3"><font color=3D"#000000"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;=
<span style=3D"color:black"></span></font></font></font></span></p><font co=
lor=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><font size=3D"3"><font color=3D"#000000"><font face=3D"Calibri">A VNF =
chain introduces additional points of
failure beyond those inherent in a single dedicated server, and therefore
additional challenges on reliability. By reliability, we mean the ability o=
f a
VNF chain to continue function when having transition or failure within the
chain. For example, there are more factors such as software failure, server
over-utilization, instance migration that potentially cause VNF instance
transition or failure. Although a general pooling mechanism can be applied =
to
address the reliability of a single VNF, there are still problems when
addressing the reliability of a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple
VNFs. For example, how does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the
pool of VNF#2 will replace the instance of VNF#2 it connects to? How does a=
n
instance of VNF#1 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to i=
n
order to enforce policy for reliability like load sharing, switch before br=
eak?
How is the service state of an instance held and accessed for efficient
synchronization with backup instances?<span style=3D"color:black"></span></=
font></font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=
=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">The over=
all problem
space can be further breakdown to the following study items:</font></font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Signalli=
ng to handle
reliability and instance transition requirements</font></font></span></p><f=
ont color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Signalli=
ng between VNF
pools for transition (e.g. state change, scaling, moving) notification, bac=
kup
announcement;</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" fa=
ce=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Service =
state management
(e.g. synchronizing method, state data format, location and mechanism to ac=
cess
state data) within VNF pool;</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Obtainin=
g underlying
network information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);</font></font></span></p><font color=
=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Signalli=
ng to CMS for
instance deployment reflecting reliability requirements (e.g. distribution =
of
instances on different VMs or hypervisors);</font></font></span></p><font c=
olor=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Transpor=
t
characteristics</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" =
face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Identify=
 and analyze
reliable transport characteristics for control plane traffic;</font></font>=
</span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Analysis=
 of transport
security characteristics to provide protection against known threats, and
identification of an appropriate trust model;</font></font></span></p><font=
 color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</font></font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">Thanks.<=
/font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"c=
olor:black" lang=3D"EN-US"><font size=3D"3"><font face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</=
font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt" class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"3"=
><font face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-GB">-Ning</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black" lang=3D"EN-US"></span></font></font></p><fo=
nt color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng<br>=D6=
=D0=B9=FA=D2=C6=B6=AF=CD=A8=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=BF=D4=BA/China Mobile Research I=
nstitute<br>e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.com">denglingl=
i@chinamobile.com</a><br>tel: 15801696688-3367<br>mobile: 13810597148<br>

</div>

--089e0115f18209e06804ec36fe5e--


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From: lingli deng <denglingli@gmail.com>
To: zongning@huawei.com, melinda.shore@gmail.com, vnfpool@ietf.org
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Hi Ning, Melinda and all,



As I understand it, the issue with " Better coordination of VNF instance
deployment" also covers the fact that a group of VNF instances backing up
each other is not necessarily as reliable as a group of physically
separated NF instances backing up each other, since a failure of a single
physical device would potentially cause both the main instance and its
backup instance to fall at the same time, if they are to be deployed on the
same physical platform.



And the things can be even more complicated, if there are also
application-level resilience mechanisms between different VNFs along a
logical service chain, which may have further implications and restrictions
on "safe" deployment consideration about VNF instances across different
pools.



Getting network/physical information was proposed at the Bar Bof at
Vancouver as a potential solution for the above issue.

While I am highly interested in solving the issue, I am not sure about that
simply to have the upper management level to be notified about physical
information is the right choice.

One may also be thinking about the other way around, having the physical
management layer to be notified about higher level constraints about
instance deployment and do the right thing.



Since in my opinion, there is a clear question but not so clear solution,
I'd prefer it to be a separate study item as in the earlier version of the
PS.



BR

Lingli



-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org<vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org>]
=B4=FA=B1=ED Zongning

=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C214=C8=D5 16:53

=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Melinda Shore; vnfpool@ietf.org

=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up



Hi, Melinda,



Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Please see inline.



> -----Original Message-----

> From: vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org<vnfpool-b=
ounces@ietf.org>]
On

> Behalf Of Melinda Shore

> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 11:56 AM

> To: vnfpool@ietf.org

> Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up

>

>

> Thank you again for putting together what I thought was a useful

> session, and thank you for the sandwiches and beer!

> A couple of points:

>

> I think it's really important to have

> a crisp, clear problem statement in a few sentences, what's sometimes

> called an "elevator pitch" (i.e. make your case in the time it takes

> to ride an elevator, although obviously the elevators in the Hyatt in

> Vancouver distort the time expectations ... ).  An actual charter

> would be much longer and more detailed, but I think a simple problem

> statement is a good place to start.



[Ning] I fully agree we need to get agreement on problem statement, before
working on the charter.



>

> One thing that I think is missing but really needs to be made both

> explicit and clear is what's meant by "reliable."

> It's one of those words, like "scalable" or "secure" that can mean any

> one of a number of things and should be explained both in terms of

> what's covered and what's not.

>



[][Ning] Ideally, "reliability" means "the ability of the a system to limit
disruption and return to normal when having fault, failure, etc.". But I
intend to limit our scope to a pooling architecture that enables
self-healing capability of VNF instances distributed in multiple pools in
case of instance transition or failure. This VNF pool can be regarded as a
underlying layer to support applications that may have various reliability
requirements.



> In this case an abstract might look something like:

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> A vnfpool working group would focus on the problem of providing

> reliable VNF instances and service chains, where by "reliable"

> we mean <some text>.  The component problems that would need to be

> solved include:

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> and then include your bullet points.  On "transport characteristics"

> I'd probably say something along the lines of . Identify and analyze

> transport characteristics for control plane

>   traffic (reliability, QoS, etc.)

> . Detailed analysis of transport security characteristics to provide

>   protection against known threats, and identification of an appropriate

>   trust model (with an eye towards key management)

>



[Ning] Thanks for the suggested text.



> I'm not sure I fully understand "Better coordination of VNF instance

> deployment with underlying network information, performed in VNF pool

> manager" and that may need some wordsmithing.

>



[Ning] I think the general idea is that network information (e.g. topology,
link status, etc.) needs to be considered during virtualized instance
deployment. Jan, I suppose you could elaborate a little bit more on this
issue? :-)



> I believe the most recently chartered working group in the Transport

> area is aqm, and it may be worthwhile taking a look at that to get a

> feel for what a successful charter looks like these days.

>

> Thanks again!

>

> Melinda

>

>



-Ning



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=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng
=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=C6=B6=AF=CD=A8=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=BF=D4=BA/China Mobile Researc=
h Institute
e-mail: denglingli@chinamobile.com
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Hi Ning, Melinda and all,</font></span=
></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">As I understand it, the issue with
&quot; Better coordination of VNF instance deployment&quot; also covers the
fact that a group of VNF instances backing up each other is not necessarily=
 as
reliable as a group of physically separated NF instances backing up each ot=
her,
since a failure of a single physical device would potentially cause both th=
e
main instance and its backup instance to fall at the same time, if they are=
 to
be deployed on the same physical platform.</font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">And the things can be even more
complicated, if there are also application-level resilience mechanisms betw=
een
different VNFs along a logical service chain, which may have further
implications and restrictions on &quot;safe&quot; deployment consideration
about VNF instances across different pools.</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Getting network/physical information w=
as
proposed at the Bar Bof at Vancouver as a potential solution for the above
issue.</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">While I am highly interested in solvin=
g
the issue, I am not sure about that simply to have the upper management lev=
el
to be notified about physical information is the right choice.</font></span=
></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">One may also be thinking about the oth=
er
way around, having the physical management layer to be notified about highe=
r
level constraints about instance deployment and do the right thing.</font><=
/span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Since in my opinion, there is a clear
question but not so clear solution, I&#39;d prefer it to be a separate stud=
y item
as in the earlier version of the PS.</font></span></p><font color=3D"#00000=
0" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">BR</font></span></p><font color=3D"#00=
0000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Lingli</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size=3D"3"><font color=3D"#000=
000"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">-----</font></span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">-----</font></span></font></font></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font=
-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><font color=3D"#000000">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</font></sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri">: </font><=
a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"=
Calibri">vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org</font></a><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D=
"Calibri">
[</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff"=
 face=3D"Calibri">mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org</font></a><font color=3D"=
#000000" face=3D"Calibri">]
</font></span><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">=B4=FA=B1=ED</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"> Zongni=
ng</font></span></font></font></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=
=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size=3D"3"><font color=3D"#000=
000"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">: 2013</font></span><span sty=
le=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font fac=
e=3D"Calibri">11</font></span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D4=
=C2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">14</font></span><span=
 style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C8=D5</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font=
 face=3D"Calibri"> 16:53</font></span></font></font></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font=
-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><font color=3D"#000000">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</font></sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri">: Melinda
Shore; </font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" f=
ace=3D"Calibri">vnfpool@ietf.org</font></a></span></font></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><font size=3D"3"><font color=3D"#000=
000"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">: Re: [vnfpool]
VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up</font></span></font></font></p><font color=3D"#0=
00000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Hi, Melinda,</font></span></p><font co=
lor=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Thanks for your comments and
suggestions. Please see inline.</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" si=
ze=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; -----Original Message-----</font>=
</span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; From: </font><a href=3D"mailto:vn=
fpool-bounces@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"=
>vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org</font></a><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=
=3D"Calibri"> [</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org"><font col=
or=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org<=
/font></a><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">] On </font><=
/span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; Behalf Of Melinda Shore</font></s=
pan></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013
11:56 AM</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; To: </font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfp=
ool@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool@i=
etf.org</font></a></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool b=
ar
BoF follow-up</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=
=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; Thank you again for putting toget=
her
what I thought was a useful </font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=
=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; session, and thank you for the
sandwiches and beer!</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" fa=
ce=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; A couple of points:</font></span>=
</p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; I think it&#39;s really important=
 to
have</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; a crisp, clear problem statement =
in
a few sentences, what&#39;s sometimes </font></span></p><font color=3D"#000=
000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; called an &quot;elevator
pitch&quot; (i.e. make your case in the time it takes </font></span></p><fo=
nt color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; to ride an elevator, although
obviously the elevators in the Hyatt in </font></span></p><font color=3D"#0=
00000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"C=
alibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">&gt; Vancouver distort the time
expectations ... ).<span>&nbsp; </span>An actual charter </font></font></sp=
an></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; would be much longer and more
detailed, but I think a simple problem </font></span></p><font color=3D"#00=
0000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; statement is a good place to star=
t.</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5=
">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">[Ning] I fully agree we need to get
agreement on problem statement, before working on the charter.</font></span=
></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; One thing that I think is missing
but really needs to be made both </font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" =
size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; explicit and clear is what&#39;s =
meant
by &quot;reliable.&quot;</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3=
" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; It&#39;s one of those words, like
&quot;scalable&quot; or &quot;secure&quot; that can mean any </font></span>=
</p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; one of a number of things and
should be explained both in terms of </font></span></p><font color=3D"#0000=
00" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; what&#39;s covered and what&#39;s=
 not.</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">[][Ning] Ideally,
&quot;reliability&quot; means &quot;the ability of the a system to limit
disruption and return to normal when having fault, failure, etc.&quot;. But=
 I
intend to limit our scope to a pooling architecture that enables self-heali=
ng
capability of VNF instances distributed in multiple pools in case of instan=
ce
transition or failure. This VNF pool can be regarded as a underlying layer =
to
support applications that may have various reliability requirements.</font>=
</span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; In this case an abstract might lo=
ok
something like:</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D=
"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</font></=
span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; A vnfpool working group would foc=
us
on the problem of providing </font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=
=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; reliable VNF instances and servic=
e
chains, where by &quot;reliable&quot;</font></span></p><font color=3D"#0000=
00" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"C=
alibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">&gt; we mean &lt;some text&gt;.<=
span>&nbsp; </span>The component problems that would need to be </font></fo=
nt></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; solved include:</font></span></p>=
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</font></=
span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"C=
alibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">&gt; and then include your bulle=
t
points.<span>&nbsp; </span>On &quot;transport
characteristics&quot;</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=
=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; I&#39;d probably say something al=
ong
the lines of . Identify and analyze </font></span></p><font color=3D"#00000=
0" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; transport characteristics for
control plane</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=
=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"C=
alibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">&gt;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>traffic (reliability, QoS, etc.)</font></font></span></p><font color=
=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; . Detailed analysis of transport
security characteristics to provide</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"C=
alibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">&gt;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>protection against known threats, and identification of an appropria=
te</font></font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"C=
alibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">&gt;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span>trust model (with an eye towards key management)</font></font></span=
></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">[Ning] Thanks for the suggested text.<=
/font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; I&#39;m not sure I fully understa=
nd
&quot;Better coordination of VNF instance </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; deployment with underlying networ=
k
information, performed in VNF pool </font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; manager&quot; and that may need
some wordsmithing.</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=
=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">[Ning] I think the general idea is tha=
t
network information (e.g. topology, link status, etc.) needs to be consider=
ed
during virtualized instance deployment. Jan, I suppose you could elaborate =
a
little bit more on this issue? :-)</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000"=
 size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; I believe the most recently
chartered working group in the Transport </font></span></p><font color=3D"#=
000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; area is aqm, and it may be
worthwhile taking a look at that to get a </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; feel for what a successful charte=
r
looks like these days.</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" =
face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; Thanks again!</font></span></p><f=
ont color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; Melinda</font></span></p><font co=
lor=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&gt; </font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">-Ning</font></span></p><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p><font color=3D=
"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">______________________________________=
_________</font></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool mailing list</font></span></p>=
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mail=
to:vnfpool@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vn=
fpool@ietf.org</font></a></span></p><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=
=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http=
s://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vnfpool"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"=
3" face=3D"Calibri">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/vnfpool</font></a=
></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5">

</font><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2/Lingli Deng<br>=D6=
=D0=B9=FA=D2=C6=B6=AF=CD=A8=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=BF=D4=BA/China Mobile Research I=
nstitute<br>e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.com">denglingl=
i@chinamobile.com</a><br>tel: 15801696688-3367<br>mobile: 13810597148<br>

</div>

--001a11c3b4acdf08cd04ec371ba7--

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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: lingli deng <denglingli@gmail.com>, "mshaikh@Brocade.com" <mshaikh@Brocade.com>, "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi, Lingli=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I think we=
 cannot preclude the case where different types of VNF instances are runnin=
g on same physical server =A8C which is a deployment option.<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">You are ri=
ght that the pool is logical.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-Ning<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
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4.0pt">
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> vnfpool [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>lingli deng<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zongning; mshaikh@Brocade.com; vnfpool@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi Ning,</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thank you for the providing s=
uch a great starting point.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Following Mukhtia=A1=AFs ques=
tion about VNF replacement across different pools, I have a further questio=
n:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">By different pools, do you me=
an logical VNF pools managed by a single manager, or do you mean physically=
 separated resource pools at the same time?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">In other words, I would like =
to know if you are also considering the case where different types of VNF i=
nstances are running on a single physical device.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">BR</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Lingli</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black">: vnfpool [</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"col=
or:black"><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ie=
tf.org</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">]
</span><span style=3D"color:black">=B4=FA=B1=ED</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black=
"> Mukhtiar Shaikh<br>
</span><span style=3D"color:black">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:black">: 2013</span><span style=3D"color:black">=C4=EA</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black">11</span><span style=3D"color:black">=D4=C2</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
;color:black">27</span><span style=3D"color:black">=C8=D5</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:black">
 10:24<br>
</span><span style=3D"color:black">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color=
:black">: Zongning;
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool=
@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">vnfpool@ietf.org</span></a><br>
</span><span style=3D"color:black">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black=
">: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi Ning,</span><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Sorry for the delay..please s=
ee my comments inline:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks,</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">-Mukhtiar</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: Zongning &lt;</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawei.c=
om"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;c=
olor:black;text-decoration:none">zongning@huawei.com</span></a></span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:black">&gt;<br>
Date: Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:54 PM<br>
To: Mukhtiar Shaikh &lt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><=
a href=3D"mailto:mshaikh@brocade.com"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;text-decoration:none">mshaikh@=
brocade.com</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quo=
t;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&gt;,
 &quot;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:=
vnfpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;;color:black;text-decoration:none">vnfpool@ietf.org</span></a><=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black">&quot;
 &lt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:vn=
fpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black;text-decoration:none">vnfpool@ietf.org</span></a></s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi, Mukhtiar,</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please see inline.</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: Mukhtiar Shaikh [</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:mshaikh@Broca=
de.com"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;;color:black;text-decoration:none">mailto:mshaikh@Brocade.com</span></a><=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black">]
<br>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 9:50 AM<br>
To: Zongning; </span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"=
mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black;text-decoration:none">vnfpool@ietf.org</spa=
n></a><br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem State=
ment</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks Ning. I think this is =
a good start and captures most of the points we have discussed so far. Just=
 a few comments for clarity..</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I think there is a subtle dif=
ference between reliability and availability of a system or in this case VN=
F. I am just wondering if the problem we are after is reliability
 of VNF or the availability of VNF and the service it delivers. Considering=
 basic assumption in NFV environment that is to ensure service continuity o=
f a network function running on general purpose servers which by design are=
 not as &quot;reliable&quot; as hardware based
 systems. This to me implies service availability to be more relevant than =
reliability.&nbsp;We also discussed this briefly&nbsp;during the Bar BoF ..=
not sure what the feedback was on this.&nbsp;Either way, it may be in the s=
emantics but want to make sure we are stating reliability
 in the right context.&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">[Ning] I agree with you that =
there is difference between these two goals. I am little bit conservative o=
n addressing whole service availability as it</span><span style=3D"color:bl=
ack">=A1=AF</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">s
 affected by too many factors covering elements of many layers </span><span=
 style=3D"color:black">=A8C</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family=
:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"> from hardware to =
application. My personal idea is to keep our problem narrowed
 on the reliability of VNF chain itself (as building block of service) to g=
et this piece of work chartered. Actually we have considered state synchron=
ization in proposal. But I am not sure how many further gaps towards real s=
ervice availability need to be verified
 as suitable IETF work, at this moment of time. Maybe we could put them as =
future work?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">I am ok with keeping the scop=
e narrow and limiting it to reliability aspects at this time.</span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Also, I am not too clear on w=
hat is meant by &quot;</span><span style=3D"color:black">=A1=AD</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:black">replace
 the instance of VNF#2</span><span style=3D"color:black">=A1=AD</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:black">&quot; in the following text.&nbsp;Are we assuming that V=
NF#2 is pre-designated as backup for VNF#1 and when a component or instance
 within VNF#1 cluster fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within =
VNF#2? If that's the case, we should state something like..&quot;Multiple p=
ools for multiple VNFs backing up each other or sharing load..&quot;</span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">[Ning] VNF#1 and VNF#2 are di=
fferent functions like vFW and vLB. We assume they are executed one after a=
nother, so a certain instance of VNF#1 actually connects to
 a certain instance of VNF#2, in a specific session. The backup instance an=
d the instance to be backup (or replaced) are in the same pool (i.e. belong=
 to same function). Please refer to the good picture posted by Linda J. Any=
way, sorry for the confusion. I
 would reword the examples to make them more clear.</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Ok I see..If the two VNFs are=
 different functions that means one is not going to be replaced with the ot=
her..I think the text is a bit confusing</span><span style=3D"color:black">=
=A1=AD</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">thanks
 for the clarification.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&quot;For example, how does a=
n instance of VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace t=
he instance of VNF#2 it connects to? &nbsp;How does an instance of VNF#1
 know the state of instance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforc=
e policy for reliability like load sharing, switch before break? How is the=
 service state of an instance held and accessed for efficient synchronizati=
on with backup instances?&quot;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks,</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">-Mukhtiar</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">From: Zongning &lt;</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawei.c=
om"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;c=
olor:black;text-decoration:none">zongning@huawei.com</span></a></span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;;color:black">&gt;<br>
Date: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:11 AM<br>
To: &quot;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mail=
to:vnfpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;s=
ans-serif&quot;;color:black;text-decoration:none">vnfpool@ietf.org</span></=
a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&quot;
 &lt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:vn=
fpool@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;;color:black;text-decoration:none">vnfpool@ietf.org</span></a></s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:black">&gt;<br>
Subject: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Hi,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Please review the below brief=
 version of VNF Pool Problem Statement, and feedback with your comments. I =
hope this text can serve as a base of VNF Pool Charter, bycarving
 out real problems and work items.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">A virtualized network functio=
n (VNF) (e.g. vFW, vLB) provides the same function as the equivalent networ=
k function (e.g. FW, LB), but is usually instantiated as a
 cluster of software instances running on general purpose servers via virtu=
alization platform. In an environment based on VNFs, a network service is t=
ypically realized by a chain of VNFs where the instances of adjacent VNFs a=
re preferably directly connected.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">A VNF chain introduces additi=
onal points of failure beyond those inherent in a single dedicated server, =
and therefore additional challenges on reliability. By reliability,
 we mean the ability of a VNF chain to continue function when having transi=
tion or failure within the chain. For example, there are more factors such =
as software failure, server over-utilization, instance migration that poten=
tially cause VNF instance transition
 or failure. Although a general pooling mechanism can be applied to address=
 the reliability of a single VNF, there are still problems when addressing =
the reliability of a VNF chain, i.e. multiple pools for multiple VNFs. For =
example, how does an instance of
 VNF#1 know which instance in the pool of VNF#2 will replace the instance o=
f VNF#2 it connects to? How does an instance of VNF#1 know the state of ins=
tance of VNF#2 that it connects to in order to enforce policy for reliabili=
ty like load sharing, switch before
 break? How is the service state of an instance held and accessed for effic=
ient synchronization with backup instances?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">The overall problem space can=
 be further breakdown to the following study items:</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Signalling to handle reliabil=
ity and instance transition requirements</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Signalling between VNF pools =
for transition (e.g. state change, scaling, moving) notification, backup an=
nouncement;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Service state management (e.g=
. synchronizing method, state data format, location and mechanism to access=
 state data) within VNF pool;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Obtaining underlying network =
information (e.g. ALTO, I2RS);</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Signalling to CMS for instanc=
e deployment reflecting reliability requirements (e.g. distribution of inst=
ances on different VMs or hypervisors);</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Transport characteristics</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Identify and analyze reliable=
 transport characteristics for control plane traffic;</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Analysis of transport securit=
y characteristics to provide protection against known threats, and identifi=
cation of an appropriate trust model;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Thanks.</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-GB" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">-Ning</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br clear=3D"all">
<br>
-- <br>
</span>=B5=CB=C1=E9=C0=F2<span lang=3D"EN-US">/Lingli Deng<br>
</span>=D6=D0=B9=FA=D2=C6=B6=AF=CD=A8=D0=C5=D1=D0=BE=BF=D4=BA<span lang=3D"=
EN-US">/China Mobile Research Institute<br>
e-mail: <a href=3D"mailto:denglingli@chinamobile.com">denglingli@chinamobil=
e.com</a><br>
tel: 15801696688-3367<br>
mobile: 13810597148<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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Hi,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I tend to agree with the idea of considering bi-directional exchange o=
f information between the NFV management layer and the infrastructural one.=
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Be goode,</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 28 Nov 2013, at 07:49 , lingli deng wrote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"><=
/font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Hi=
 Ning, Melinda and all,</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">As=
 I understand it, the issue with &quot; Better coordination of VNF instance=
 deployment&quot; also covers the fact that a group of VNF instances backin=
g up each other is not necessarily as reliable as
 a group of physically separated NF instances backing up each other, since =
a failure of a single physical device would potentially cause both the main=
 instance and its backup instance to fall at the same time, if they are to =
be deployed on the same physical
 platform.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">An=
d the things can be even more complicated, if there are also application-le=
vel resilience mechanisms between different VNFs along a logical service ch=
ain, which may have further implications
 and restrictions on &quot;safe&quot; deployment consideration about VNF in=
stances across different pools.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Ge=
tting network/physical information was proposed at the Bar Bof at Vancouver=
 as a potential solution for the above issue.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Wh=
ile I am highly interested in solving the issue, I am not sure about that s=
imply to have the upper management level to be notified about physical info=
rmation is the right choice.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">On=
e may also be thinking about the other way around, having the physical mana=
gement layer to be notified about higher level constraints about instance d=
eployment and do the right thing.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Si=
nce in my opinion, there is a clear question but not so clear solution, I'd=
 prefer it to be a separate study item as in the earlier version of the PS.=
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">BR=
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Li=
ngli</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<font size=3D"3"><font color=3D"#000000"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D=
"Calibri">-----</font></span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D3=
=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">---=
--</font></span></font></font></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<font size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><font color=3D"#0=
00000">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</font></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" face=3D"Calibri">:
</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" =
face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org</font></a><font color=3D"#000000"=
 face=3D"Calibri"> [</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org"><fon=
t color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Calibri">mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org</font>=
</a><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri">]
</font></span><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">=B4=FA=B1=ED</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"> Zongni=
ng</font></span></font></font></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<font size=3D"3"><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"C=
alibri">: 2013</font></span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">11</font></span><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=D4=C2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font fa=
ce=3D"Calibri">14</font></span><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C8=
=D5</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">
 16:53</font></span></font></font></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<font size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><font color=3D"#0=
00000">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</font></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"=
#000000" face=3D"Calibri">: Melinda Shore;
</font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"=
Calibri">vnfpool@ietf.org</font></a></span></font></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<font size=3D"3"><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=
=CC=E5">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri">: Re=
: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up</font></span></font></font></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Hi=
, Melinda,</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">Th=
anks for your comments and suggestions. Please see inline.</font></span></d=
iv>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; -----Original Message-----</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; From: </font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org"><font color=3D"=
#0000ff" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org</font></a><fo=
nt color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"> [</font><a href=3D"mailto=
:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calib=
ri">mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org</font></a><font color=3D"#000000" size=
=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">]
 On </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; Behalf Of Melinda Shore</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 11:56 AM</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; To: </font><a href=3D"mailto:vnfpool@ietf.org"><font color=3D"#0000ff" s=
ize=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">vnfpool@ietf.org</font></a></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool bar BoF follow-up</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; Thank you again for putting together what I thought was a useful
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; session, and thank you for the sandwiches and beer!</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; A couple of points:</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; I think it's really important to have</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; a crisp, clear problem statement in a few sentences, what's sometimes
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; called an &quot;elevator pitch&quot; (i.e. make your case in the time it=
 takes
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; to ride an elevator, although obviously the elevators in the Hyatt in
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D=
"3">&gt; Vancouver distort the time expectations ... ).<span>&nbsp;
</span>An actual charter </font></font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; would be much longer and more detailed, but I think a simple problem
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; statement is a good place to start.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">[N=
ing] I fully agree we need to get agreement on problem statement, before wo=
rking on the charter.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; One thing that I think is missing but really needs to be made both
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; explicit and clear is what's meant by &quot;reliable.&quot;</font></span=
></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; It's one of those words, like &quot;scalable&quot; or &quot;secure&quot;=
 that can mean any
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; one of a number of things and should be explained both in terms of
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; what's covered and what's not.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">[]=
[Ning] Ideally, &quot;reliability&quot; means &quot;the ability of the a sy=
stem to limit disruption and return to normal when having fault, failure, e=
tc.&quot;. But I intend to limit our scope to a pooling architecture
 that enables self-healing capability of VNF instances distributed in multi=
ple pools in case of instance transition or failure. This VNF pool can be r=
egarded as a underlying layer to support applications that may have various=
 reliability requirements.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; In this case an abstract might look something like:</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; A vnfpool working group would focus on the problem of providing
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; reliable VNF instances and service chains, where by &quot;reliable&quot;=
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D=
"3">&gt; we mean &lt;some text&gt;.<span>&nbsp;
</span>The component problems that would need to be </font></font></span></=
div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; solved include:</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D=
"3">&gt; and then include your bullet points.<span>&nbsp;
</span>On &quot;transport characteristics&quot;</font></font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; I'd probably say something along the lines of . Identify and analyze
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; transport characteristics for control plane</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D=
"3">&gt;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>
traffic (reliability, QoS, etc.)</font></font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; . Detailed analysis of transport security characteristics to provide</fo=
nt></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D=
"3">&gt;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>
protection against known threats, and identification of an appropriate</fon=
t></font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font face=3D"Calibri"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D=
"3">&gt;<span>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>
trust model (with an eye towards key management)</font></font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">[N=
ing] Thanks for the suggested text.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; I'm not sure I fully understand &quot;Better coordination of VNF instanc=
e
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; deployment with underlying network information, performed in VNF pool
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; manager&quot; and that may need some wordsmithing.</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">[N=
ing] I think the general idea is that network information (e.g. topology, l=
ink status, etc.) needs to be considered during virtualized instance deploy=
ment. Jan, I suppose you could elaborate
 a little bit more on this issue? :-)</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; I believe the most recently chartered working group in the Transport
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; area is aqm, and it may be worthwhile taking a look at that to get a
</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; feel for what a successful charter looks like these days.</font></span><=
/div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; Thanks again!</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; Melinda</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&g=
t; </font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
eft:0cm">
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">-N=
ing</font></span></div>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<p style=3D"margin:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000=
" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">&nbsp;</font></span></p>
<font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"=CB=CE=CC=E5"></font>
<div style=3D"margin-top:0cm; margin-right:0cm; margin-bottom:0pt; margin-l=
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<span lang=3D"EN-US"><font color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri">__=
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Hi Ning,

Discussion vNF chain here in vNF-Pool has the overlap with the Service
Function Chain group. a) we do not even know what will be the standard
chaining mechanism in IETF, b) how could us discussion reliability of this
chain without the chaining defined first.

Regards,
-cz

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Zongning <zongning@huawei.com> wrote:

>
> [Ning] I agree with you that there is difference between these two goals.
> I am little bit conservative on addressing whole service availability as
> it=92s affected by too many factors covering elements of many layers =96 =
from
> hardware to application. My personal idea is to keep our problem narrowed
> on the reliability of VNF chain itself (as building block of service) to
> get this piece of work chartered. Actually we have considered state
> synchronization in proposal. But I am not sure how many further gaps
> towards real service availability need to be verified as suitable IETF
> work, at this moment of time. Maybe we could put them as future work?
>
>
>
> Also, I am not too clear on what is meant by "=85replace the instance of
> VNF#2=85" in the following text. Are we assuming that VNF#2 is pre-design=
ated
> as backup for VNF#1 and when a component or instance within VNF#1 cluster
> fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within VNF#2? If that's the
> case, we should state something like.."Multiple pools for multiple VNFs
> backing up each other or sharing load.."
>
>
>
> [Ning] VNF#1 and VNF#2 are different functions like vFW and vLB. We assum=
e
> they are executed one after another, so a certain instance of VNF#1
> actually connects to a certain instance of VNF#2, in a specific session.
> The backup instance and the instance to be backup (or replaced) are in th=
e
> same pool (i.e. belong to same function). Please refer to the good pictur=
e
> posted by Linda J. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. I would reword the
> examples to make them more clear.
>
>
>
>

--047d7b5d5af46b2c5304ec4d8e56
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Ning,=A0<div><br></div><div>Discussion vNF chain here i=
n vNF-Pool has the overlap with the Service Function Chain group. a) we do =
not even know what will be the standard chaining mechanism in IETF, b) how =
could us discussion reliability of this chain without the chaining defined =
first.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>-cz</div><div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Zongn=
ing <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">zongning@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break=
-word">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt"><div><div class=3D"im"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"color:#1f497d"><br>[Ning] I agree with you that there is difference=
 between these two goals. I am little bit conservative on addressing whole =
service availability as it=92s affected by too many factors covering elemen=
ts
 of many layers =96 from hardware to application. My personal idea is to ke=
ep our problem narrowed on the reliability of VNF chain itself (as building=
 block of service) to get this piece of work chartered. Actually we have co=
nsidered state synchronization in
 proposal. But I am not sure how many further gaps towards real service ava=
ilability need to be verified as suitable IETF work, at this moment of time=
. Maybe we could put them as future work?<br></span></p></div>
</div><div class=3D"im">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style><u></u>=A0<u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style>Also, I am not too clear =
on what is meant by &quot;=85replace the instance of VNF#2=85&quot; in the =
following text.=A0Are we assuming that VNF#2 is pre-designated as backup fo=
r VNF#1 and when a component or instance
 within VNF#1 cluster fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within =
VNF#2? If that&#39;s the case, we should state something like..&quot;Multip=
le pools for multiple VNFs backing up each other or sharing load..&quot;<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>

</div>
</div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d"><u></u>=
=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">[Ning] =
VNF#1 and VNF#2 are different functions like vFW and vLB. We assume they ar=
e executed one after another, so a certain instance of VNF#1 actually conne=
cts to a certain instance of VNF#2, in
 a specific session. The backup instance and the instance to be backup (or =
replaced) are in the same pool (i.e. belong to same function). Please refer=
 to the good picture posted by Linda
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1f497d">. Anyway, sorry for the=
 confusion. I would reword the examples to make them more clear.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p></div></div></div></div>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>

--047d7b5d5af46b2c5304ec4d8e56--

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From: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
To: "Cao,Zhen" <zehn.cao@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 10:02:51 +0000
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Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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Hi, Zhen,

During the Vancouver bar BoF, we also discussed the relation between VNF po=
ol and FSC. We agreed that VNF pool will address different problem space. A=
ssuming that some chaining mechanism has been defined in FSC regarding how =
to connect/chain the VNF instances, we focus on signaling related to resili=
ency, e.g. backup announcement, status notification, etc. So I'd see these =
two groups as complementary.
You are absolutely right that these two groups are related with each other.=
 I can put some text in our proposed working scope to clarify this issue.
Thanks.

-Ning

From: vnfpool [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Cao,Zhen
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 5:36 PM
To: Zongning
Cc: vnfpool@ietf.org; Mukhtiar Shaikh
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement

Hi Ning,

Discussion vNF chain here in vNF-Pool has the overlap with the Service Func=
tion Chain group. a) we do not even know what will be the standard chaining=
 mechanism in IETF, b) how could us discussion reliability of this chain wi=
thout the chaining defined first.

Regards,
-cz

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Zongning <zongning@huawei.com<mailto:zong=
ning@huawei.com>> wrote:

[Ning] I agree with you that there is difference between these two goals. I=
 am little bit conservative on addressing whole service availability as it'=
s affected by too many factors covering elements of many layers - from hard=
ware to application. My personal idea is to keep our problem narrowed on th=
e reliability of VNF chain itself (as building block of service) to get thi=
s piece of work chartered. Actually we have considered state synchronizatio=
n in proposal. But I am not sure how many further gaps towards real service=
 availability need to be verified as suitable IETF work, at this moment of =
time. Maybe we could put them as future work?

Also, I am not too clear on what is meant by "...replace the instance of VN=
F#2..." in the following text. Are we assuming that VNF#2 is pre-designated=
 as backup for VNF#1 and when a component or instance within VNF#1 cluster =
fails, it needs to be replaced by a component within VNF#2? If that's the c=
ase, we should state something like.."Multiple pools for multiple VNFs back=
ing up each other or sharing load.."

[Ning] VNF#1 and VNF#2 are different functions like vFW and vLB. We assume =
they are executed one after another, so a certain instance of VNF#1 actuall=
y connects to a certain instance of VNF#2, in a specific session. The backu=
p instance and the instance to be backup (or replaced) are in the same pool=
 (i.e. belong to same function). Please refer to the good picture posted by=
 Linda :). Anyway, sorry for the confusion. I would reword the examples to =
make them more clear.




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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi, Zhen,<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">During the=
 Vancouver bar BoF, we also discussed the relation between VNF pool and FSC=
. We agreed that VNF pool will address different problem space.
 Assuming that some chaining mechanism has been defined in FSC regarding ho=
w to connect/chain the VNF instances, we focus on signaling related to resi=
liency, e.g. backup announcement, status notification, etc. So I&#8217;d se=
e these two groups as complementary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">You are ab=
solutely right that these two groups are related with each other. I can put=
 some text in our proposed working scope to clarify this issue.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-Ning<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> vnfpool [mailto:vnfpool-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Cao,Zhen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 29, 2013 5:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zongning<br>
<b>Cc:</b> vnfpool@ietf.org; Mukhtiar Shaikh<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Ning,&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Discussion vNF chain here in vN=
F-Pool has the overlap with the Service Function Chain group. a) we do not =
even know what will be the standard chaining mechanism in IETF, b) how coul=
d us discussion reliability of this
 chain without the chaining defined first.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-cz<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:54 A=
M, Zongning &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zongning@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zo=
ngning@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><br>
[Ning] I agree with you that there is difference between these two goals. I=
 am little bit conservative on addressing whole service availability as it&=
#8217;s affected by too many factors covering elements of many layers &#821=
1; from hardware to application. My personal
 idea is to keep our problem narrowed on the reliability of VNF chain itsel=
f (as building block of service) to get this piece of work chartered. Actua=
lly we have considered state synchronization in proposal. But I am not sure=
 how many further gaps towards real
 service availability need to be verified as suitable IETF work, at this mo=
ment of time. Maybe we could put them as future work?</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Also, I am not too clear on what is meant by =
&quot;&#8230;replace the instance of VNF#2&#8230;&quot; in the following te=
xt.&nbsp;Are we assuming that VNF#2 is pre-designated as backup for
 VNF#1 and when a component or instance within VNF#1 cluster fails, it need=
s to be replaced by a component within VNF#2? If that's the case, we should=
 state something like..&quot;Multiple pools for multiple VNFs backing up ea=
ch other or sharing load..&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Ning] VNF#1 and VNF#=
2 are different functions like vFW and vLB. We assume they are executed one=
 after another, so a certain instance of
 VNF#1 actually connects to a certain instance of VNF#2, in a specific sess=
ion. The backup instance and the instance to be backup (or replaced) are in=
 the same pool (i.e. belong to same function). Please refer to the good pic=
ture posted by Linda
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">. Anyway, sorry for the=
 confusion. I would reword the examples to make them more clear.</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From zehn.cao@gmail.com  Fri Nov 29 02:17:39 2013
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References: <B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC6667792584C1A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <CEB539C2.50387%mshaikh@brocade.com> <B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC66677925854665@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <CAProHASWeRu_2CBPgTC84S+WeCLvjb027rruC=EM0rw4NXSWbQ@mail.gmail.com> <B0D29E0424F2DE47A0B36779EC666779258568A4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 18:17:13 +0800
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From: "Cao,Zhen" <zehn.cao@gmail.com>
To: Zongning <zongning@huawei.com>
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Cc: "vnfpool@ietf.org" <vnfpool@ietf.org>, Mukhtiar Shaikh <mshaikh@brocade.com>
Subject: Re: [vnfpool] VNF Pool Problem Statement
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> During the Vancouver bar BoF, we also discussed the relation between VNF
> pool and FSC.

Sorry I was not there physically.

> We agreed that VNF pool will address different problem space.
> Assuming that some chaining mechanism has been defined in FSC regarding h=
ow
> to connect/chain the VNF instances, we focus on signaling related to
> resiliency, e.g. backup announcement, status notification, etc. So I=92d =
see
> these two groups as complementary.

Ok, then we need to specify in the charter that the discussion in this
working group is orthogonal to the detail chaining header used or
chosen by the SFC group, and the way the two potential groups works
together.

>
> You are absolutely right that these two groups are related with each othe=
r.
> I can put some text in our proposed working scope to clarify this issue.
>

From melinda.shore@nomountain.net  Fri Nov 29 14:18:43 2013
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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 13:18:39 -0900
From: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@nomountain.net>
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Subject: [vnfpool] Question about addressing in pools
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It's typically the case in a stateful failover scenario that
when a device has a given address (or set of addresses), after
a failover the new instance has the same address.  The current
version of the problem statement includes the following text:
"For example, how does an instance of VNF#1 know which instance
in the pool of VNF#2"?

It seems to me that unless we're assuming the use of hardware
addressing we should probably explain why this is an issue.
If we go with rserpool or a similar mechanism, addresses are
not shared but instead a pool manager (such as an ENRP server)
is used to select "live" instances and addressing is mediated
through the pooling mechanism.

It seems to me that we should probably be prepared to discuss
the tradeoffs between the two approaches.

Melinda
-- 
Melinda Shore
No Mountain Software
melinda.shore@nomountain.net

"Software longa, hardware brevis."

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The discussion regarding FSC is a good one. Overall, I like the Problem
Statement. Two concepts stand out: VNF and Service Chain, both are large
concepts. The nice drawing by Linda helps, but I believe that this is a
simplified illustration, as during the meeting Diego showed that the model
can be more complex, if I understand him correctly. Does the intended WG
want to build on top of these two specific concepts, or build a more
general and hence reusable, modular solution? I see the more general
solution approach as one possible way to decouple from the Service Chain
definitions WG. To be concrete, the concepts from Chabby and rservpool
appear to be general.
> During the Vancouver bar BoF, we also discussed the relation between VNF
> pool and FSC.

Sorry I was not there physically.

> We agreed that VNF pool will address different problem space.
> Assuming that some chaining mechanism has been defined in FSC regarding
how
> to connect/chain the VNF instances, we focus on signaling related to
> resiliency, e.g. backup announcement, status notification, etc. So I=92d =
see
> these two groups as complementary.

Ok, then we need to specify in the charter that the discussion in this
working group is orthogonal to the detail chaining header used or
chosen by the SFC group, and the way the two potential groups works
together.

>
> You are absolutely right that these two groups are related with each
other.
> I can put some text in our proposed working scope to clarify this issue.
>
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<p dir=3D"ltr">The discussion regarding FSC is a good one. Overall, I like =
the Problem Statement. Two concepts stand out: VNF and Service Chain, both =
are large concepts. The nice drawing by Linda helps, but I believe that thi=
s is a simplified illustration, as during the meeting Diego showed that the=
 model can be more complex, if I understand him correctly. Does the intende=
d WG want to build on top of these two specific concepts, or build a more g=
eneral and hence reusable, modular solution? I see the more general solutio=
n approach as one possible way to decouple from the Service Chain definitio=
ns WG. To be concrete, the concepts from Chabby and rservpool appear to be =
general.</p>

<div class=3D"gmail_quot&lt;blockquote class=3D" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">&gt; During the Vancouver bar=
 BoF, we also discussed the relation between VNF<br>
&gt; pool and FSC.<br>
<br>
Sorry I was not there physically.<br>
<br>
&gt; We agreed that VNF pool will address different problem space.<br>
&gt; Assuming that some chaining mechanism has been defined in FSC regardin=
g how<br>
&gt; to connect/chain the VNF instances, we focus on signaling related to<b=
r>
&gt; resiliency, e.g. backup announcement, status notification, etc. So I=
=92d see<br>
&gt; these two groups as complementary.<br>
<br>
Ok, then we need to specify in the charter that the discussion in this<br>
working group is orthogonal to the detail chaining header used or<br>
chosen by the SFC group, and the way the two potential groups works<br>
together.<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; You are absolutely right that these two groups are related with each o=
ther.<br>
&gt; I can put some text in our proposed working scope to clarify this issu=
e.<br>
&gt;<br>
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