From nobody Wed Oct 23 14:35:26 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F415120100 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:35:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lDXqLvuN55vX for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x233.google.com (mail-lj1-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBF471200A4 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:35:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x233.google.com with SMTP id f5so22712772ljg.8 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:35:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FPGmNIlI+Im+kjjW8qVydvOfKsE31DPLdcsAJnNY9k4=; b=i7DaLx68InHQ+KWlqNPqKWjofRh5+QERokmh4bq+VEYFhcqPtU38W9aqb523Dn8HHQ Fr6KSwVdTxieCi7d30HxHcxd/S0sckG8EeOwKVWjJytBAjoxU+mTseNgk0HrPO4ykPjF jJ9ZX7pVQkLJGUgMJnbbALsXrrTBqe0owapLVJG0/woRwfG1snav8w7idsFQq/jtxnQn 7ExwIjQaTZlzZXLrk6P2qQOSKVaKwoFzrTLPd6IC/SBskUZcgZzfhf5ioFvQtwqD160J SAImMNkx2vikwufFsm3wb0olrHl10xmDaLbfZA+YUrz2JkDjheBjtWFIki9+9lvSoHL4 gY0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FPGmNIlI+Im+kjjW8qVydvOfKsE31DPLdcsAJnNY9k4=; b=gB+PjhTWfb1Qntd+JSgsTCcmM6w7eaaEvVdHGMbPF7vac3+dNJDdWK45pNpZ1bWm48 qSmPppYPXgikwskEKbrOzSI3YVzjPpw0wEY4Agnp9cQzJuLBIWqbsuFijUCp0Aw67aMX JJby2xYfIKoPvYA3LvdN+o1LfduhDpLzm30HEonqkpBNTyNikuu2EzyQVYoPShsXqGRi sO8Bin7xORhkjZU6yo0nUYP/CWHqtAbSjMi78w2Yo9+stxaAwMmfUIzmyzcB/3p/bTwv FKNTH6zgvhFaE8bG/9i0iJLAk21yaHT+3JaG7ZsdqCSNVpc8ihTfOKwCyucKx5DJRxuK 5QLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWsYjVlJwV9B7dGzAHS3EJb+SFR/AZbKcwrUofuPt0GNlmoNEAN Ltc6K+zqq575RzEJ9ayG7lv+JVd/ekXS4CSZkd780t28 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw9mn6COL7O8XkkFmekTDZs17+eoGaFqmtxds2xfS3F9R6cn2eH095OCuoP7HnEZR6onA16cB9q9r+ARjelVX8= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:87d5:: with SMTP id v21mr4327552ljj.186.1571866517298; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:35:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Bernard Aboba Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:35:06 -0700 Message-ID: To: webtransport@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000065e3e405959ab199" Archived-At: Subject: [Webtransport] Request for Feedback: Draft Charter proposal X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:35:25 -0000 --00000000000065e3e405959ab199 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" As many of you may have noticed, there will be a (non-WG forming) WEBTRANS BOF at IETF 106: https://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/ With the IETF 106 schedule due to be finalized soon, we are working on a draft agenda which we hope to post to this list sometime next week. While the upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some feedback from the IESG suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a potential WG charter. So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an early draft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed below. Please note that this proposal assumes that dependencies such as work on QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram and draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram ) will be handled elsewhere, such as in a re-chartered QUIC WG. WebTransport (WEBTRANS) --------------------------------------------- Charter > > Chairs: > David Schinazi > Bernard Aboba > > Applications and Real-Time Area Directors: > Barry Leiba > Alexey Melnikov > Adam Roach > > Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor: > Barry Leiba > > Mailing Lists: > General Discussion: webtransport@ietf.org > To Subscribe: > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport > Archive: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport/ > > Description of Working Group: > > The WebTransport working group will define new protocols or > protocol extensions in order to support the needs of the W3C > WebTransport API . > > These protocols will support: > * Reliable bidirectional and unidirectional communication > that provides greater efficiency than Websockets > (e.g. removal of head-of-line blocking). > * Unreliable datagram communication, functionality not > available in Websockets. > * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web's origin-based > security model. > > The WebTransport working group will define three variants: > * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN. > * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3. > * Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP > is not available. > > The group will pay attention to security issues arising from > the above scenarios so as to ensure against creation of new > modes of attack, as well as to ensure that security issues > addressed in the design of Websockets remain addressed > in the new work. > > The group will coordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community > Group (WICG) with respect to the above deliverables to ensure the > best possible match between the WebTransport protocol extensions > and the W3C WebTransport API. The group will also coordinate with > other working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as > appropriate. > > Goals and Milestones: > > March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work item > March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work item > March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work item > March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work item > September 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3 > September 2020 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism > November 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over QUIC > November 2020 - Issue WG last call for QUIC fallback mechanism > --00000000000065e3e405959ab199 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As many of you may have noticed, the= re will=C2=A0be a (non-WG forming) WEBTRANS BOF at IETF 106:=C2=A0
https://trac.tools.ietf= .org/bof/trac/

With the IETF 106 schedule = due to be finalized soon, we are working on a draft agenda which we hope to= post to this list sometime next week.=C2=A0

While= the upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some feedback = from the IESG=C2=A0 suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a potential = WG charter.=C2=A0 So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an earl= y draft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed below.=C2=A0

Please note that this proposal assumes = that dependencies such as work on QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-dat= agram and draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram=C2=A0 ) will be handled elsewhere= , such as in a re-chartered QUIC WG.=C2=A0

WebTransp= ort (WEBTRANS)
---------------------------------------------
Charter

Chairs:<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>
<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>

<= /div>
Applications and Real-Time Area Directors:
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A= lexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Adam Roach= <adam@nostrum.com= >

Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor:<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
<= br>
Mailing Lists:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0General Discussi= on:=C2=A0webtran= sport@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To Subscribe:=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Archive:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport= /

Description of Working Group:

=
The WebTransport working group will define new protocols or
protocol extensions in order to support the needs of the W3C
WebTransport API <https://wicg.github.io/web-transport/>.
These protocols will support:
=C2=A0 * Reliable bidi= rectional and unidirectional communication
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that pro= vides greater efficiency than Websockets
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (e.g. remo= val of head-of-line blocking).
=C2=A0 * Unreliable datagram commu= nication, functionality not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 available in Websockets= .
=C2=A0 * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web's origin= -based
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 security model.

The= WebTransport working group will define three variants:
=C2=A0 * = A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN.
=C2=A0 *= A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3.
=C2=A0 * Fallback = protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 i= s not available.

The group will pay attention to s= ecurity issues arising from
the above scenarios so as to ensure a= gainst creation of new
modes of attack, as well as to ensure that= security issues
addressed in the design of Websockets remain add= ressed
in the new work.

The group will c= oordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community
Group (WICG) with= respect to the above deliverables to ensure the
best possible ma= tch between the WebTransport protocol extensions
and the W3C WebT= ransport API. The group will also coordinate with
other working g= roups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as
appropriate.
<= div>
Goals and Milestones:

=C2=A0 Ma= rch 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG w= ork item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mec= hanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a Q= UIC fallback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 September 2020=C2= =A0 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3
=C2=A0 Septe= mber 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG last call on WebTransport over= QUIC
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG last call for Q= UIC fallback mechanism


--00000000000065e3e405959ab199-- From nobody Wed Oct 23 14:52:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85BD4120DE2 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:51:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.747 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.747 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pqs4HrYHNRKh for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vs1-xe36.google.com (mail-vs1-xe36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34930120E38 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vs1-xe36.google.com with SMTP id x20so3120455vso.13 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:51:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=i0UrpdYhKwyP+p9dD0bx/gboqPnf8OzWcn7rrSa4914=; b=Um4UjZowqNE4qBc70sym56K0RZUrmsba/vBcKwV42Recb9RrlkwI+hajXSLtztIKdy EXrzhO7TRhvlIdOUKgCLHfuXb9+07zTXZxNDtzL3+W9czh0YKREXn1MR9yNhn5gusfoQ DYLxAgKs3a59SQnCFzly2RneCvqeDOqtc2aLuvJcHED9EWV9zdv/+idrgP06M8O3i9e3 FEmg2DV5tyJ00f/ORoZY4FiSkcIqmBPhdGacY3rO9XMbXO1jdKvSaPuOZgjZjPICaqfZ e+7gTlhKPDeRq/qJYNPcaXXlX9UO0K6R5rJtuy8H0TCG8rW5Hcpwd0tKxx8wvkLbc4Gr vJxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=i0UrpdYhKwyP+p9dD0bx/gboqPnf8OzWcn7rrSa4914=; b=bepVC6z2ZfuDkfOh8tI9lLceQVBqYlcrowlMMsmrKV3BNBHSr5y3MhI4L7tzEMTEeg wPJgH08nZDXHhZkgdd/CzMEVI2iZaQvomN4hv6yDS+F/w7H/brKjgUU4SHMDQBwRTBdA SmdYkoAXcQNbT7wdKDEnSRCFuOSzt1sc/kwHcVKPG2lJNPQXMpmR5KIHToHs2ju2X0tb 8ezKpmQJZvkpjKy1J+3JjADBs2/cZ6ttEzo962LeLJxLqXeWFfQDCGAa0CFjjIimFzTb iBdLQ8FBxOu5QLOQngb1Q65Htt1pJS9By8gqG8KYkKc6Qr82k3+AvyW3W0IWLTJ6NQhy FGiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUdBdpITHwu9ZK5zCk55RmZ2cqV6/pmVO2xUyyvwWDuNj2n2IYh SlHTgHT6UETGFAOZGlnS8YUI6X3z9BE12EMP6Mc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqziDhs9jJCJXQDLiDvsGD2+nQE0zdnnbarwtuhiZ8zysDsiiwkS4Kn2ZmSJyRS/0jl5zhobKyaqwHX8/NPKIVg= X-Received: by 2002:a67:6917:: with SMTP id e23mr7001450vsc.143.1571867508098; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:51:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Lucas Pardue Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 14:51:36 -0700 Message-ID: To: Bernard Aboba Cc: webtransport@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000744ac005959aec38" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Webtransport] Request for Feedback: Draft Charter proposal X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 21:51:59 -0000 --000000000000744ac005959aec38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Bernard, Thanks for sharing this. The proposed schedule raises a question for me. It effectively gives 6 months from forming to shipping a first draft, which gives us one IETF meeting. With that in mind, how would you foresee the running code aspect of the process. Would there be some opportunity to do interop such as at the Hackathon? I ask because I have an interest in the proposals but any implementation activity would be from a standing start. Cheers Lucas On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 14:35 Bernard Aboba, wrote: > As many of you may have noticed, there will be a (non-WG forming) WEBTRANS > BOF at IETF 106: > https://trac.tools.ietf..org/bof/trac/ > > > With the IETF 106 schedule due to be finalized soon, we are working on a > draft agenda which we hope to post to this list sometime next week. > > While the upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some > feedback from the IESG suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a > potential WG charter. So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an > early draft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed below. > > Please note that this proposal assumes that dependencies such as work on > QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram and > draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram ) will be handled elsewhere, such as in a > re-chartered QUIC WG. > > WebTransport (WEBTRANS) > --------------------------------------------- > Charter > >> >> Chairs: >> David Schinazi >> Bernard Aboba >> >> Applications and Real-Time Area Directors: >> Barry Leiba >> Alexey Melnikov >> Adam Roach >> >> Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor: >> Barry Leiba >> >> Mailing Lists: >> General Discussion: webtransport@ietf.org >> To Subscribe: >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport >> Archive: >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport/ >> >> Description of Working Group: >> >> The WebTransport working group will define new protocols or >> protocol extensions in order to support the needs of the W3C >> WebTransport API . >> >> These protocols will support: >> * Reliable bidirectional and unidirectional communication >> that provides greater efficiency than Websockets >> (e.g. removal of head-of-line blocking). >> * Unreliable datagram communication, functionality not >> available in Websockets.. >> * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web's origin-based >> security model. >> >> The WebTransport working group will define three variants: >> * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN. >> * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3. >> * Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP >> is not available. >> >> The group will pay attention to security issues arising from >> the above scenarios so as to ensure against creation of new >> modes of attack, as well as to ensure that security issues >> addressed in the design of Websockets remain addressed >> in the new work. >> >> The group will coordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community >> Group (WICG) with respect to the above deliverables to ensure the >> best possible match between the WebTransport protocol extensions >> and the W3C WebTransport API. The group will also coordinate with >> other working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as >> appropriate. >> >> Goals and Milestones: >> >> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work item >> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work item >> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work >> item >> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work >> item >> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3 >> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism >> November 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over QUIC >> November 2020 - Issue WG last call for QUIC fallback mechanism >> > > > -- > Webtransport mailing list > Webtransport@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport > --000000000000744ac005959aec38 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Bernard,

= Thanks for sharing this.=C2=A0

The proposed schedule raises a question for me. It effectively gives= 6 months from forming to shipping a first draft, which gives us one IETF m= eeting.

With that in min= d, how would you foresee the running code aspect of the process. Would ther= e be some opportunity to do interop such as at the Hackathon?

I ask because I have an interest in t= he proposals but any implementation activity would be from a standing start= .

Cheers
Lucas

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019, 14:35 Bernard Aboba, <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
<= div>As many of you may have noticed, there will=C2=A0be a (non-WG forming) = WEBTRANS BOF at IETF 106:=C2=A0

With the IETF 106 schedu= le due to be finalized soon, we are working on a draft agenda which we hope= to post to this list sometime next week.=C2=A0

Wh= ile the upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some feedba= ck from the IESG=C2=A0 suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a potenti= al WG charter.=C2=A0 So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an e= arly draft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed below.=C2=A0

Please note that this proposal assum= es that dependencies such as work on QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-= datagram and draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram=C2=A0 ) will be handled elsewh= ere, such as in a re-chartered QUIC WG.=C2=A0

WebTra= nsport (WEBTRANS)
---------------------------------------------
Charter

Chairs:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0David Schinazi <= dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bernar= d Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>

A= pplications and Real-Time Area Directors:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bar= ry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>

Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>

Mailing Lists:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0General Discussion:=C2= =A0webtransport@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To Subscribe:= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/ma= ilman/listinfo/webtransport
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Archive:=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0ht= tps://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport/

Description of Working Group:

The WebTransp= ort working group will define new protocols or
protocol extension= s in order to support the needs of the W3C
WebTransport API <<= a href=3D"https://wicg.github.io/web-transport/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n= oreferrer">https://wicg.github.io/web-transport/>.

These protocols will support:
=C2=A0 * Reliable bidirecti= onal and unidirectional communication
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that provides= greater efficiency than Websockets
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (e.g. removal o= f head-of-line blocking).
=C2=A0 * Unreliable datagram communicat= ion, functionality not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 available in Websockets..
=C2=A0 * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web's origin-bas= ed
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 security model.

The Web= Transport working group will define three variants:
=C2=A0 * A pr= otocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN.
=C2=A0 * A p= rotocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3.
=C2=A0 * Fallback prot= ocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is no= t available.

The group will pay attention to secur= ity issues arising from
the above scenarios so as to ensure again= st creation of new
modes of attack, as well as to ensure that sec= urity issues
addressed in the design of Websockets remain address= ed
in the new work.

The group will coord= inate with the W3C Web Incubation Community
Group (WICG) with res= pect to the above deliverables to ensure the
best possible match = between the WebTransport protocol extensions
and the W3C WebTrans= port API. The group will also coordinate with
other working group= s within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as
appropriate.
=
Goals and Milestones:

=C2=A0 March = 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work = item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechani= sm as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC = fallback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 September 2020=C2=A0 = - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3
=C2=A0 September= 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism
=C2= =A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG last call on WebTransport over QUI= C
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG last call for QUIC = fallback mechanism

--
Webtransport mailing list
Webtransport@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/w= ebtransport
--000000000000744ac005959aec38-- From nobody Wed Oct 23 15:06:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AE0120112 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:06:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6BFHzkYu2HMU for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4606120106 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id g3so5168997lfb.11 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:06:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3yLScajPgZMr24Xb8cW3VajbwJBxW927nyKTb6lsoa4=; b=V6uI5FH9MRcgoohf2DWg62KXeCxLWIMg6HNZiotZu4mFs9LOC66bAoHVl/i9Iyq8o8 IBE30XHY9AIY2R/9/cpzIA4dtFHDqa3/BzxHG9ubDdxlpexIYBq6ld1zkRazhKIFevWv wK485wHnWsg11EclkUT3SdLdEjTkyaX9dCQPI83VeP2m+xK5FCRR3g5L6i9K4Gz4kycv 3PpZtStE4zFwP/dqUmTkFrN0B9K7Z5KvkdChjN3UADjmonmiv8LBKfyvmhMzHUOc7eHS nZr/IlwcE+EvCG7P+6TdW2VzJ15EzdyE7XY24Zm2+G1z5htSwvbP4TgRndbxAH77uN5a HxUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3yLScajPgZMr24Xb8cW3VajbwJBxW927nyKTb6lsoa4=; b=No3GqcBBfyUlCAt/nrxkeman7ngZFlcIcZICYR5zN2RN0tu/faC8nhu9TyodkvuRD8 5jX1HzXZTnvw2mrResJXUlbSUUCtcW0ST6nnsW/QW35dusu5LKv1UEknEHLJwaH/u/2C aeurpA3JHD7cVLIlIN/Z5+8cjfJYw7excf6IDNRJrheKl59nZ/IEwvDXEefhBfa0u6s7 ZPJMJrHxFj0uHADFT1NMOQOadUF7ljP9/FiLk0tTkJS+YP8SuO8VMAbPgWPdt5IfnHWd mIUHV/VH9iRhB7Kk37vqZCyAcwULr4VOwo/oAnTHDDsQOrRNUMJ1uBgN9BsWFO5tQ4kX af/g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX2xfosxb2wZPj0yVaPg8kapdUsqT4lRxDJKOafiWGc2+aprqT2 eQjd3kI3ay6ju32qHrNyVdesRwyAZRQSVP+QyoxjJg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxQ+ZMINqVINADDz8GO36ifM+Y+uZdq0a88pnmCYCVd+TZu8pCHj6xnq9X2BiBhTmwwXQ3uzRJv9jCbFxkdMV0= X-Received: by 2002:a19:8c05:: with SMTP id o5mr23568389lfd.53.1571868396554; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:06:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Victor Vasiliev Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 18:06:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: Bernard Aboba Cc: webtransport@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000069760b05959b219a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Webtransport] Request for Feedback: Draft Charter proposal X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:06:42 -0000 --00000000000069760b05959b219a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello Bernard, Thanks for the charter draft! I have a few suggestions: 1. I think in terms of milestones, we might want to put WebTransport over QUIC earlier than WebTransport over HTTP/[23], since it's both simpler in nature and is currently under active development in Chromium. 2. I'm not sure it would be wise to explicitly put WICG into the charter, as WICG expects the specs to migrate elsewhere as soon as they reach a certain level of maturity (so we'd need a recharter when that happens, which I'd prefer to avoid). I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about what points we expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate on requirements, but not on protocol details). On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 5:35 PM Bernard Aboba wrote: > As many of you may have noticed, there will be a (non-WG forming) WEBTRANS > BOF at IETF 106: > https://trac.tools.ietf..org/bof/trac/ > > > With the IETF 106 schedule due to be finalized soon, we are working on a > draft agenda which we hope to post to this list sometime next week. > > While the upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some > feedback from the IESG suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a > potential WG charter. So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an > early draft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed below. > > Please note that this proposal assumes that dependencies such as work on > QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram and > draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram ) will be handled elsewhere, such as in a > re-chartered QUIC WG. > > WebTransport (WEBTRANS) > --------------------------------------------- > Charter > >> >> Chairs: >> David Schinazi >> Bernard Aboba >> >> Applications and Real-Time Area Directors: >> Barry Leiba >> Alexey Melnikov >> Adam Roach >> >> Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor: >> Barry Leiba >> >> Mailing Lists: >> General Discussion: webtransport@ietf.org >> To Subscribe: >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport >> Archive: >> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport/ >> >> Description of Working Group: >> >> The WebTransport working group will define new protocols or >> protocol extensions in order to support the needs of the W3C >> WebTransport API . >> >> These protocols will support: >> * Reliable bidirectional and unidirectional communication >> that provides greater efficiency than Websockets >> (e.g. removal of head-of-line blocking). >> * Unreliable datagram communication, functionality not >> available in Websockets.. >> * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web's origin-based >> security model. >> >> The WebTransport working group will define three variants: >> * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN. >> * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3. >> * Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP >> is not available. >> >> The group will pay attention to security issues arising from >> the above scenarios so as to ensure against creation of new >> modes of attack, as well as to ensure that security issues >> addressed in the design of Websockets remain addressed >> in the new work. >> >> The group will coordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community >> Group (WICG) with respect to the above deliverables to ensure the >> best possible match between the WebTransport protocol extensions >> and the W3C WebTransport API. The group will also coordinate with >> other working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as >> appropriate. >> >> Goals and Milestones: >> >> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work item >> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work item >> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work >> item >> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work >> item >> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3 >> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism >> November 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over QUIC >> November 2020 - Issue WG last call for QUIC fallback mechanism >> > > > -- > Webtransport mailing list > Webtransport@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport > --00000000000069760b05959b219a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Bernard,

Thanks for the charter d= raft!

I have a few suggestions:
  1. = I think in terms of milestones, we might want to put=C2=A0WebTransport over= QUIC earlier than=C2=A0WebTransport over HTTP/[23], since it's both si= mpler in nature and is currently under active development in Chromium.
    2. =
  2. I'm not sure it would be wise to explicitly put WICG into the chart= er, as WICG expects the specs to migrate elsewhere as soon as they reach a = certain level of maturity (so we'd need a recharter when that happens, = which I'd prefer to avoid).
I also feel we should be some= what more explicit about what points we expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e.= we should coordinate=C2=A0on requirements, but not on protocol details).

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 5:35 PM Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> wrote:
As many of you may have noticed, there will=C2=A0be a (non-W= G forming) WEBTRANS BOF at IETF 106:=C2=A0

With the IETF 106 schedule due t= o be finalized soon, we are working on a draft agenda which we hope to post= to this list sometime next week.=C2=A0

While the = upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some feedback from = the IESG=C2=A0 suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a potential WG ch= arter.=C2=A0 So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an early dra= ft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed below.=C2=A0

Please note that this proposal assumes that = dependencies such as work on QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram= and draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram=C2=A0 ) will be handled elsewhere, suc= h as in a re-chartered QUIC WG.=C2=A0

WebTransport (= WEBTRANS)
---------------------------------------------
Charter
Chairs:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmai= l.com>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com= >

Applications and Real-Time Area Directors:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Adam Roach <adam@nostrum.com>

Applications and Real= -Time Area Advisor:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.o= rg>

Mailing Lists:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0General Discussion:=C2=A0webtransport@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To S= ubscribe:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/webtransport
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Archive:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arc= h/browse/webtransport/

Description of Working = Group:

The WebTransport working group will define = new protocols or
protocol extensions in order to support the need= s of the W3C

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 security model.

The WebTransport working group will define three vari= ants:
=C2=A0 * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own= ALPN.
=C2=A0 * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3.
=C2=A0 * Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP=C2=A0<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is not available.

The grou= p will pay attention to security issues arising from
the above sc= enarios so as to ensure against creation of new
modes of attack, = as well as to ensure that security issues
addressed in the design= of Websockets remain addressed
in the new work.

The group will coordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community
Group (WICG) with respect to the above deliverables to ensure the
best possible match between the WebTransport protocol extensions
and the W3C WebTransport API. The group will also coordinate with<= /div>
other working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as
appropriate.

Goals and Milestones:

=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP= /3 as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTran= sport over QUIC as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a dra= ft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 20= 20 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 September 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP= /3
=C2=A0 September 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fal= lback mechanism
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG last = call on WebTransport over QUIC
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0-= Issue WG last call for QUIC fallback mechanism


--
Webtransport mailing list
Webtransport@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport=
--00000000000069760b05959b219a-- From nobody Wed Oct 23 16:19:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFFA5120096 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:18:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=n2elT0WL; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Y42s8IA9 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PpzLkzRiSs4v for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4379012001A for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467C521DC4 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap2 ([10.202.2.52]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:18:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm3; bh=xhAutJYHfiUvL6v3j6SMphLCEI331b0 8kQURM+7+0LM=; b=n2elT0WL8kDGB5pYnUmr1vd8FwxOZwNY66nnpIo6rpwvCtZ YBLGRnTwc6urnDn/0EpwQjkB99yzMLpD4FttwJyvob1FSGXjSBCfWPMZK3YljQt9 Kq4botOSzhYTOjq22+daw017WG6EWmI2sG/NG/QdZZAaa98aUxLOgkuoLyJbexSD Zq/MJxNLsypiJb6S+wS0NZ+b2GYHiEqCHqJ/Uvxdolug6fhXr1j2NLOq+Qg9C8mp 1J5r06TFI5Zd6cr9s+96aI+bUzezi4FOXevO+6vZwLlcVKfw6d6/B1nwHRSE0RHb 5d0QgwehGoeab47qlejm0sIJ7q2AJcCS0EH1Fcw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=xhAutJ YHfiUvL6v3j6SMphLCEI331b08kQURM+7+0LM=; b=Y42s8IA9x564VVcNtgd6Pk j5+ccmQw+d575eMGCrKxzkbJlyeg24IvZFEajoIQ+ZgkNLgFT8MNB2ORbULks7mL LO+Y5shG/n7Iv+A30/1MJIeLUYabwOg1aUcr7VzGc2FzeB743Kqt2HmsZV7xiPBF 8F43N9QcJCZMFfWNlAHafVfpOnTEUZjbjxzl8vqrCSq7u2UyQgD9iUa3IgIJlaeX eiSLUoc5K4fGuq2rKvQWLh3PhoMwY6Slbtxj3wxGHAlqpB00GM+jZfkWApb1pJv9 TuFh6Ie09h3WTrIo1qdqFJSQs+2KkzTne2lofeZGy71o73/SkF6D7/WXHhPc+/UQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrledtgddukecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtre dtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdforghrthhinhcuvfhhohhmshhonhdfuceomhhtsehlohif vghnthhrohhphidrnhgvtheqnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehmtheslhhofi gvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvghtnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id C3E1EE00A5; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 19:18:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.1.7-470-gedfae93-fmstable-20191021v4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <782ad760-0e91-420d-ba8b-f5963ec748a0@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 10:18:37 +1100 From: "Martin Thomson" To: webtransport@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Webtransport] Request for Feedback: Draft Charter proposal X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:19:00 -0000 On Thu, Oct 24, 2019, at 08:35, Bernard Aboba wrote: > WebTransport (WEBTRANS) > --------------------------------------------- > Charter I don't see an explicit mention of "client to server" here, which should probably be explicit. > > Chairs: > > David Schinazi > > Bernard Aboba This decision is one for the area director, I think. From nobody Thu Oct 24 04:04:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69B36120104 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 04:04:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OICjkqLWmpnP for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 04:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi1-x231.google.com (mail-oi1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1813A12004E for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 04:04:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x231.google.com with SMTP id x3so20245457oig.2 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 04:04:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=U6OWI1Iewy6ULjHNRzsf/rMg3KqEtgj6eEJ+hGio1Vk=; b=quPefFYmPrtMxOmFs73Q8EM5J1JfbqtNY4VPyDkCQS+3/+KqByhr1lXM277x4GgpLJ WW5n9CMmppRY8qpzMSFG73+GVhiXqjY+Obg79CQ8Fb72z3tyBNR6I0eqlkOXvdv78HPN P1da8uz8mofAWbqKppiD5XpAi5YLFgII9cg0qRozPSUeSaaO6KJvN2RjsuUIISI42TxL MAmlSpHjOFJsfLp9fNqNgoBOb7ZZ9vtcNcdVVhUlJv2haDH1L09YHOqTl9MH09Rgd59+ SRLSCi57bMqiaz80uBERjZIinwXgQyWqA4UtDL6YjNH6ZfjIB7SxwbP05fpbeHYT7Oyk 2E2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=U6OWI1Iewy6ULjHNRzsf/rMg3KqEtgj6eEJ+hGio1Vk=; b=DxyiC7y7OGbMJ8nVz/mKeKNso1uqYXmD+qp0zD6TokkUn5ojjSKdzE89NInbwpdH3v grdWeWxDOVsupOsoeVzvqsYYkmWUqJoyDmN34XMHBHWWGti1m6bLsHElOQxLyqWKh2sf mVRMX9xEja2uVfVeDYUGxQYzyUtr8Hsl9DoaNukrDZyNocSk4eyolmqw9Hye4bqd6Ugq 9hQSe+IaRBoYyoFnkEYLHACvnqaFiXgn4k1J7I712l9QAmExhifEDVYesC0nt+SrfeCs yYzYURxzzGSXoAzY7Ey+auNp7PBjM/NCjOw+r+yFZ0rPVbaRmVXVMh0xLEyW4qGGMO/q A9FA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUWVM4cE1mjRF36mZgyjFHAhFNrKuG3EGkkKdA5WVmMcLYbtzEc k2DcjsoJhhEdTlvfvbI9a4/7BZiUA3GiQ7siPAV+6A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwM68HuqeSrCjbXokIy6OgcdKcrqwcWrloiZH76n0dHPDwCdlM5YGhPvRF/DpSKZK9WbiXp+anDMzIn78/4dpM= X-Received: by 2002:aca:4787:: with SMTP id u129mr3932065oia.25.1571915045977; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 04:04:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dragana Damjanovic Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:03:54 +0200 Message-ID: To: webtransport@ietf.org Cc: Bernard Aboba Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eec3110595a5fdca" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Webtransport] Request for Feedback: Draft Charter proposal X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 11:04:09 -0000 --000000000000eec3110595a5fdca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The charter says that it will coordinate with WICG or W3C but still has a shipping/last call dates which are not dependent on the coordination. Dragana On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 12:06 AM Victor Vasiliev wrote: > Hello Bernard, > > Thanks for the charter draft! > > I have a few suggestions: > > 1. I think in terms of milestones, we might want to put WebTransport > over QUIC earlier than WebTransport over HTTP/[23], since it's both simpler > in nature and is currently under active development in Chromium. > 2. I'm not sure it would be wise to explicitly put WICG into the > charter, as WICG expects the specs to migrate elsewhere as soon as they > reach a certain level of maturity (so we'd need a recharter when that > happens, which I'd prefer to avoid). > > I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about what points we > expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate on requirements, > but not on protocol details). > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 5:35 PM Bernard Aboba > wrote: > >> As many of you may have noticed, there will be a (non-WG forming) >> WEBTRANS BOF at IETF 106: >> https://trac.tools.ietf..org/bof/trac/ >> >> >> With the IETF 106 schedule due to be finalized soon, we are working on a >> draft agenda which we hope to post to this list sometime next week. >> >> While the upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some >> feedback from the IESG suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a >> potential WG charter. So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an >> early draft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed below. >> >> Please note that this proposal assumes that dependencies such as work on >> QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram and >> draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram ) will be handled elsewhere, such as in a >> re-chartered QUIC WG. >> >> WebTransport (WEBTRANS) >> --------------------------------------------- >> Charter >> >>> >>> Chairs: >>> David Schinazi >>> Bernard Aboba >>> >>> Applications and Real-Time Area Directors: >>> Barry Leiba >>> Alexey Melnikov >>> Adam Roach >>> >>> Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor: >>> Barry Leiba >>> >>> Mailing Lists: >>> General Discussion: webtransport@ietf.org >>> To Subscribe: >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport >>> Archive: >>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport/ >>> >>> Description of Working Group: >>> >>> The WebTransport working group will define new protocols or >>> protocol extensions in order to support the needs of the W3C >>> WebTransport API . >>> >>> These protocols will support: >>> * Reliable bidirectional and unidirectional communication >>> that provides greater efficiency than Websockets >>> (e.g. removal of head-of-line blocking). >>> * Unreliable datagram communication, functionality not >>> available in Websockets.. >>> * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web's origin-based >>> security model. >>> >>> The WebTransport working group will define three variants: >>> * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN. >>> * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3. >>> * Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP >>> is not available. >>> >>> The group will pay attention to security issues arising from >>> the above scenarios so as to ensure against creation of new >>> modes of attack, as well as to ensure that security issues >>> addressed in the design of Websockets remain addressed >>> in the new work. >>> >>> The group will coordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community >>> Group (WICG) with respect to the above deliverables to ensure the >>> best possible match between the WebTransport protocol extensions >>> and the W3C WebTransport API. The group will also coordinate with >>> other working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as >>> appropriate. >>> >>> Goals and Milestones: >>> >>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work >>> item >>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work item >>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work >>> item >>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work >>> item >>> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3 >>> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism >>> November 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over QUIC >>> November 2020 - Issue WG last call for QUIC fallback mechanism >>> >> >> >> -- >> Webtransport mailing list >> Webtransport@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport >> > -- > Webtransport mailing list > Webtransport@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport > --000000000000eec3110595a5fdca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The charter says that it will coordinate with WICG or= W3C but still has a shipping/last call dates which are not dependent on th= e coordination.

Dragana

On Thu, Oct 24, 2= 019 at 12:06 AM Victor Vasiliev <vasilvv=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hello Bernard= ,

Thanks for the charter draft!

I have a few suggestions:
  1. I think in terms of milestones= , we might want to put=C2=A0WebTransport over QUIC earlier than=C2=A0WebTra= nsport over HTTP/[23], since it's both simpler in nature and is current= ly under active development in Chromium.
  2. I'm not sure it would = be wise to explicitly put WICG into the charter, as WICG expects the specs = to migrate elsewhere as soon as they reach a certain level of maturity (so = we'd need a recharter when that happens, which I'd prefer to avoid)= .
I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about what = points we expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate=C2=A0on = requirements, but not on protocol details).

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019= at 5:35 PM Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> wrote:
As many of you may have noticed, there will=C2=A0be a (non-WG forming) W= EBTRANS BOF at IETF 106:=C2=A0



<= /div>
Please note that this proposal assumes that dependenc= ies such as work on QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram and draf= t-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram=C2=A0 ) will be handled elsewhere, such as in a= re-chartered QUIC WG.=C2=A0

WebTransport (WEBTRANS)=
---------------------------------------------
Charter<= /div>
Applications and Real-Time Area Directors:
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ad= am Roach <adam@nos= trum.com>

Applications and Real-Time Area A= dvisor:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>

Mailing Lists:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0General = Discussion:=C2=A0webtransport@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To Subscribe:=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtran= sport
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Archive:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webt= ransport/

Description of Working Group:
<= div>
The WebTransport working group will define new protocols= or
protocol extensions in order to support the needs of the W3C<= /div>
WebTransport API <https://wicg.github.io/web-transport/>.

These protocols will support:
=C2=A0 * Relia= ble bidirectional and unidirectional communication
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = that provides greater efficiency than Websockets
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (e= .g. removal of head-of-line blocking).
=C2=A0 * Unreliable datagr= am communication, functionality not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 available in We= bsockets..
=C2=A0 * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web'= ;s origin-based
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 security model.

The WebTransport working group will define three variants:
= =C2=A0 * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN.
=C2=A0 * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3.
=C2=A0 * = Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP=C2=A0
=C2=A0= =C2=A0 is not available.

The group will pay atten= tion to security issues arising from
the above scenarios so as to= ensure against creation of new
modes of attack, as well as to en= sure that security issues
addressed in the design of Websockets r= emain addressed
in the new work.

The gro= up will coordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community
Group (W= ICG) with respect to the above deliverables to ensure the
best po= ssible match between the WebTransport protocol extensions
and the= W3C WebTransport API. The group will also coordinate with
other = working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as
appropriat= e.

Goals and Milestones:

= =C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work = item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC = as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fal= lback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a dra= ft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 Septembe= r 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3
=C2= =A0 September 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism<= /div>
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG last call on WebTrans= port over QUIC
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG last c= all for QUIC fallback mechanism
<= /div>


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Webtransport@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport=
--000000000000eec3110595a5fdca-- From nobody Thu Oct 24 12:27:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E672120047 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:27:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8eKvjumgmawU for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22b.google.com (mail-lj1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DC80120025 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id a21so3570908ljh.9 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:27:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=c2Q/zBCmsnIWyQic79oUo7GTcEM9MuS2Gt4rzVwK/cE=; b=TA6fdwTRlFoet6rm6ua97yCJWj9V3vdMNB6RzuHavUCz0oXHff6h1oA9ixj993OegM nqHYtZxlvyw7Z/vWd9icsbljyaKtMg+GC9pxpJN9BOaXPVdNN1RsPR3ES7Ll/vK/JYCe 4XQYhLC/qKnZMj5BcpWQN895w0cNp23uM7PreIo9HSZvyzo02aa99t4PjLHnbRaygpPv gx9dabIdJmXuRS5KnORdEviWjjaWJMv25rvtPfEm6dDdUjlq9WcmhatQRBxsO+HegOGP fgr4fqfhJBWGy2D23IrmWPHPa9uO5QVQ+gKmp3/x+lymrCuiGAdam7aVmO7S8Cud2Xpw 07iA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c2Q/zBCmsnIWyQic79oUo7GTcEM9MuS2Gt4rzVwK/cE=; b=fXQaYTaBM+cmnr9jLCo30wX1oyLzOhDnpQnncRPjLtNbffNXyRZTfYODMTBHUiZxnu L0ahmgYgfU6SDTqykSJq2BDYuyRVOIcd/Z91GudG1XZuS95HMjgWEoRLpk6/EA6xjWB0 GYhoVbTGOrEayeIc+sgTfGtb3h17+dSAoPXZCPTPeaIWB9DU/MXsDWjP7fO/gC/e2L5u HdHu0I/QOehadiJPZVogBFLsv5uUutm20W9YA3o5mKGXK1Puw4rKSuJJzqiOmLu1SI3w qA5SfcvZl2Z5SpN83A5y28Xhckgi2VaL+azmgTeJaH16/xGt1DPy/k6LB1QZmlKrVux3 rFeA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXVkmvO5R3qXVYHMS2QyyUkkZfa2BR2lu0HInDrid66kWpNGNKU S7LAb5IbWyN+0WEehmKkAe6etiYkaHxpJZCIELk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwgp678HhLMd0lr7+H+9Dl/MMcHBKlitrKv+5Uc0OFsAedsholfQuBWZT941RkOPtT35kYyfGZ3vmNhkfgmTik= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8852:: with SMTP id z18mr28011957ljj.230.1571945261001; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:27:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Bernard Aboba Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 12:27:29 -0700 Message-ID: To: Victor Vasiliev Cc: webtransport@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e373540595ad062c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Webtransport] Request for Feedback: Draft Charter proposal X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 19:27:55 -0000 --000000000000e373540595ad062c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Lucas said: "With that in mind, how would you foresee the running code aspect of the process. Would there be some opportunity to do interop such as at the Hackathon?" [BA] One can argue that the draft milestones are optimistic, given experience. So we can increase the timeline to better conform to reality. >From the comments, it seems like the simplest work items (e.g. WebTransport for QUIC) are likely to be implemented first; the HTTP-related items will be likely to take longer. Having successful interop tests/Hackathon experience will confirm that the specifications are sufficiently clear to yield interoperable implementations. Victor said: "I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about what points we expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate on requirements, but not on protocol details)." [BA] That is a good point. The current Draft Charter does not include a requirements document. Would it make sense to add that as a work item? On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 3:06 PM Victor Vasiliev wrote: > Hello Bernard, > > Thanks for the charter draft! > > I have a few suggestions: > > 1. I think in terms of milestones, we might want to put WebTransport > over QUIC earlier than WebTransport over HTTP/[23], since it's both simpler > in nature and is currently under active development in Chromium. > 2. I'm not sure it would be wise to explicitly put WICG into the > charter, as WICG expects the specs to migrate elsewhere as soon as they > reach a certain level of maturity (so we'd need a recharter when that > happens, which I'd prefer to avoid). > > I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about what points we > expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate on requirements, > but not on protocol details). > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 5:35 PM Bernard Aboba > wrote: > >> As many of you may have noticed, there will be a (non-WG forming) >> WEBTRANS BOF at IETF 106: >> https://trac.tools.ietf..org/bof/trac/ >> >> >> With the IETF 106 schedule due to be finalized soon, we are working on a >> draft agenda which we hope to post to this list sometime next week. >> >> While the upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some >> feedback from the IESG suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a >> potential WG charter. So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an >> early draft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed below. >> >> Please note that this proposal assumes that dependencies such as work on >> QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram and >> draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram ) will be handled elsewhere, such as in a >> re-chartered QUIC WG. >> >> WebTransport (WEBTRANS) >> --------------------------------------------- >> Charter >> >>> >>> Chairs: >>> David Schinazi >>> Bernard Aboba >>> >>> Applications and Real-Time Area Directors: >>> Barry Leiba >>> Alexey Melnikov >>> Adam Roach >>> >>> Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor: >>> Barry Leiba >>> >>> Mailing Lists: >>> General Discussion: webtransport@ietf.org >>> To Subscribe: >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport >>> Archive: >>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport/ >>> >>> Description of Working Group: >>> >>> The WebTransport working group will define new protocols or >>> protocol extensions in order to support the needs of the W3C >>> WebTransport API . >>> >>> These protocols will support: >>> * Reliable bidirectional and unidirectional communication >>> that provides greater efficiency than Websockets >>> (e.g. removal of head-of-line blocking). >>> * Unreliable datagram communication, functionality not >>> available in Websockets.. >>> * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web's origin-based >>> security model. >>> >>> The WebTransport working group will define three variants: >>> * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN. >>> * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3. >>> * Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP >>> is not available. >>> >>> The group will pay attention to security issues arising from >>> the above scenarios so as to ensure against creation of new >>> modes of attack, as well as to ensure that security issues >>> addressed in the design of Websockets remain addressed >>> in the new work. >>> >>> The group will coordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community >>> Group (WICG) with respect to the above deliverables to ensure the >>> best possible match between the WebTransport protocol extensions >>> and the W3C WebTransport API. The group will also coordinate with >>> other working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as >>> appropriate. >>> >>> Goals and Milestones: >>> >>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work >>> item >>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work item >>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work >>> item >>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work >>> item >>> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3 >>> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism >>> November 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over QUIC >>> November 2020 - Issue WG last call for QUIC fallback mechanism >>> >> >> >> -- >> Webtransport mailing list >> Webtransport@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport >> > --000000000000e373540595ad062c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lucas said:=C2=A0
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
"With that in mind, how wou= ld you foresee the running code aspect of the process. Would there be some = opportunity to do interop such as at the Hackathon?"

[BA] One can argue that the draft milestones are optimi= stic, given experience.=C2=A0 So we can increase the timeline to better con= form to reality.=C2=A0 From the comments, it seems like the simplest work i= tems (e.g. WebTransport for QUIC) are likely to be implemented first; the H= TTP-related items will be likely to take longer. Having successful interop = tests/Hackathon experience will confirm that the specifications are suffici= ently clear to yield interoperable implementations.=C2=A0

Victor said:=C2=A0

"= ;I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about what points we expec= t to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate=C2=A0on requirements, b= ut not on protocol details)."

[BA] That is a = good point.=C2=A0 The current Draft Charter does not include=C2=A0a require= ments document.=C2=A0 Would it make sense to add that as a work item?=C2=A0=

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 3:06 PM Victor Vasiliev <vasilvv@google.com> wrote:
Hello B= ernard,

Thanks for the charter draft!

I have a few suggestions:
  1. I think in terms of mile= stones, we might want to put=C2=A0WebTransport over QUIC earlier than=C2=A0= WebTransport over HTTP/[23], since it's both simpler in nature and is c= urrently under active development in Chromium.
  2. I'm not sure it = would be wise to explicitly put WICG into the charter, as WICG expects the = specs to migrate elsewhere as soon as they reach a certain level of maturit= y (so we'd need a recharter when that happens, which I'd prefer to = avoid).
I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about= what points we expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate=C2= =A0on requirements, but not on protocol details).

On Wed, Oct 23= , 2019 at 5:35 PM Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> wrote:
As many of you may have noticed, there will=C2=A0be a (non-WG form= ing) WEBTRANS BOF at IETF 106:=C2=A0

With the IETF 106 schedule due to be f= inalized soon, we are working on a draft agenda which we hope to post to th= is list sometime next week.=C2=A0

While the upcomi= ng IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some feedback from the IE= SG=C2=A0 suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a potential WG charter.= =C2=A0 So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an early draft of = a charter proposal, which is enclosed below.=C2=A0
Please note that this proposal assumes that depend= encies such as work on QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram and d= raft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram=C2=A0 ) will be handled elsewhere, such as i= n a re-chartered QUIC WG.=C2=A0

WebTransport (WEBTRA= NS)
---------------------------------------------
Chart= er

<= div>Chairs:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>

Applications and Real-Time Area Directors:
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Adam Roach <ada= m@nostrum.com>

Applications and Real-Time A= rea Advisor:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>= ;

Mailing Lists:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gen= eral Discussion:=C2=A0webtransport@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To Subscribe:= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webt= ransport
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Archive:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/w= ebtransport/

Description of Working Group:

The WebTransport working group will define new protoc= ols or
protocol extensions in order to support the needs of the W= 3C
WebTransport API <https://wicg.github.io/web-transport/>.

These protocols will support:
=C2=A0 * Re= liable bidirectional and unidirectional communication
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 that provides greater efficiency than Websockets
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 (e.g. removal of head-of-line blocking).
=C2=A0 * Unreliable = datagram communication, functionality not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 available= in Websockets..
=C2=A0 * Origin checks to allow supporting the W= eb's origin-based
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 security model.
The WebTransport working group will define three variants:
=C2=A0 * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN.
=C2=A0 * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3.
=C2= =A0 * Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP=C2=A0
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is not available.

The group will pay= attention to security issues arising from
the above scenarios so= as to ensure against creation of new
modes of attack, as well as= to ensure that security issues
addressed in the design of Websoc= kets remain addressed
in the new work.

T= he group will coordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community
Gr= oup (WICG) with respect to the above deliverables to ensure the
b= est possible match between the WebTransport protocol extensions
a= nd the W3C WebTransport API. The group will also coordinate with
= other working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as
appr= opriate.

Goals and Milestones:

=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG= work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over= QUIC as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP= /2 fallback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt= a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 Se= ptember 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3
=C2=A0 September 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mech= anism
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG last call on We= bTransport over QUIC
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG = last call for QUIC fallback mechanism
<= /div>


--
Webtransport mailing list
Webtransport@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport=
--000000000000e373540595ad062c-- From nobody Thu Oct 24 13:33:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DD5F120041 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:33:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17Ww0fD4DAlS for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x130.google.com (mail-lf1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC48D120071 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x130.google.com with SMTP id y6so13933664lfj.2 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:33:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9vdnPmaQzhDi2B+7wkAXc3jQfVg5nDaU7Kz01NCB9rw=; b=L6XZ2NCitd1Kt8jiHHVo0K8T3jn3Dh+l2HFlDVLhHhBjaqGWluvoOPlT93Ji8TsnGg zkymPE7eaM8SO3N6JNEMGNzbxsd7GQuEb2XsdavVO9Y0mWwcDsVo1sKWE5ErnjydHFMK 1HhRfVHveKHkUUill+ycdoGczFZKmXQ9QsEHwC+kn7sQ+9BRPNpvX4h2j54BNi+62UMk xXZxixBCO9vN5XmzU1T8F6xCaPzxWGwrNhiK1eugWmey8sNZ/6+7/Z+zpwvcUiRKN3A7 zCKkmJixczPiL1n+JTI8uxoxgliYc2kbXooCJ7sfgkUfW90LzJlhSQIl3mrYxfst+Ytd Pr5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9vdnPmaQzhDi2B+7wkAXc3jQfVg5nDaU7Kz01NCB9rw=; b=cLadlCuyhBG05t1AQrgSoho1h2ccafZ4eQAcuLDWxZ2R24ik8brgxw+1KaBvNAI7gE cQ1Oqg7mJm15mVXMNOZcXxUWdj9Nty4eMXZLtPuYxSzPQp8y7Mq9b7lUn6ZcobYTqHcQ yzcJkJNTBKRsy9wDFjvO0FMw3WNZoMgB5w79QqQFPbbH51v06r6vMtNnyAolhOauH0DC A79jGROeHX8XFWPk4RvlVsgAatRkFeYKTcdAuPAjb6/reBeKwOMnueAokw77nJXjXEyl B5xpGL6/im9+XHKVNyI+/VAaTvngA2Pq7X9o24+YQhMMebW1XMmQkSYJkRtA22pad0EE mRgw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUm98H+2+17/YXOeg25l4XNe6x/49fnx+H+5TvuoUeX7uuD4pOM pIUa6XcSUJaEMdSte+Feg712GTKX0gglYSbNJyo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwYJwMBsbMOblMe9TibSKpmp1GvDAqxn+Dzagc2wDKU0NxOmJWXGgRNBQUodyraxFW9ocQQ9YuaAOiP5h5ixBQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5dd5:: with SMTP id x21mr84415lfq.156.1571949225708; Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:33:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Bernard Aboba Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:33:34 -0700 Message-ID: To: Victor Vasiliev Cc: webtransport@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003414520595adf39f" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Webtransport] Request for Feedback: Draft Charter proposal X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 20:33:52 -0000 --0000000000003414520595adf39f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Here is an updated Charter. Is this better? WebTransport (WEBTRANS) --------------------------------------------- Charter Chairs: TBD Applications and Real-Time Area Directors: Barry Leiba Alexey Melnikov Adam Roach Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor: Barry Leiba Mailing Lists: General Discussion: webtransport@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport/ Description of Working Group: The WebTransport working group will define new protocols or protocol extensions in order to support the development of the W3C WebTransport API . These protocols will support: * Reliable bidirectional and unidirectional communication that provides greater efficiency than Websockets (e.g. removal of head-of-line blocking). * Unreliable datagram communication, functionality not available in Websockets. * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web's origin-based security model. The WebTransport working group will define three variants: * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN. * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3. * Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP are not available. The group will pay attention to security issues arising from the above scenarios so as to ensure against creation of new modes of attack, as well as to ensure that security issues addressed in the design of Websockets remain addressed in the new work. To assist in the coordination with W3C, the group will initially develop an overview document containing use cases and requirements in order to clarify the goals of the effort. Feedback will also be solicited at various points along the way in order to ensure the best possible match between the protocol extensions and the needs of the W3C WebTransport API. The clarity and interoperability of specifications will be confirmed via test events and hackathons. The group will also coordinate with other working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as appropriate. Goals and Milestones: March 2020 - Adopt a WebTransport Overview draft as a WG work item March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work item March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work item March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work item March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work item August 2020 - Issue WG last call of the WebTransport Overview document. November 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over QUIC November 2020 - Issue WG last call on QUIC fallback mechanism February 2021 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3 February 2021 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 12:27 PM Bernard Aboba wrote: > Lucas said: > > "With that in mind, how would you foresee the running code aspect of the > process. Would there be some opportunity to do interop such as at the > Hackathon?" > > [BA] One can argue that the draft milestones are optimistic, given > experience. So we can increase the timeline to better conform to reality. > From the comments, it seems like the simplest work items (e.g. WebTransport > for QUIC) are likely to be implemented first; the HTTP-related items will > be likely to take longer. Having successful interop tests/Hackathon > experience will confirm that the specifications are sufficiently clear to > yield interoperable implementations. > > Victor said: > > "I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about what points we > expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate on requirements, > but not on protocol details)." > > [BA] That is a good point. The current Draft Charter does not include a > requirements document. Would it make sense to add that as a work item? > > On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 3:06 PM Victor Vasiliev > wrote: > >> Hello Bernard, >> >> Thanks for the charter draft! >> >> I have a few suggestions: >> >> 1. I think in terms of milestones, we might want to put WebTransport >> over QUIC earlier than WebTransport over HTTP/[23], since it's both simpler >> in nature and is currently under active development in Chromium. >> 2. I'm not sure it would be wise to explicitly put WICG into the >> charter, as WICG expects the specs to migrate elsewhere as soon as they >> reach a certain level of maturity (so we'd need a recharter when that >> happens, which I'd prefer to avoid). >> >> I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about what points we >> expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate on requirements, >> but not on protocol details). >> >> On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 5:35 PM Bernard Aboba >> wrote: >> >>> As many of you may have noticed, there will be a (non-WG forming) >>> WEBTRANS BOF at IETF 106: >>> https://trac.tools.ietf..org/bof/trac/ >>> >>> >>> With the IETF 106 schedule due to be finalized soon, we are working on a >>> draft agenda which we hope to post to this list sometime next week. >>> >>> While the upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we have gotten some >>> feedback from the IESG suggesting that we jumpstart discussion of a >>> potential WG charter. So as to solicit feedback, we've put together an >>> early draft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed below. >>> >>> Please note that this proposal assumes that dependencies such as work on >>> QUIC datagrams (e.g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram and >>> draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram ) will be handled elsewhere, such as in a >>> re-chartered QUIC WG. >>> >>> WebTransport (WEBTRANS) >>> --------------------------------------------- >>> Charter >>> >>>> >>>> Chairs: >>>> David Schinazi >>>> Bernard Aboba >>>> >>>> Applications and Real-Time Area Directors: >>>> Barry Leiba >>>> Alexey Melnikov >>>> Adam Roach >>>> >>>> Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor: >>>> Barry Leiba >>>> >>>> Mailing Lists: >>>> General Discussion: webtransport@ietf.org >>>> To Subscribe: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport >>>> Archive: >>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport/ >>>> >>>> Description of Working Group: >>>> >>>> The WebTransport working group will define new protocols or >>>> protocol extensions in order to support the needs of the W3C >>>> WebTransport API . >>>> >>>> These protocols will support: >>>> * Reliable bidirectional and unidirectional communication >>>> that provides greater efficiency than Websockets >>>> (e.g. removal of head-of-line blocking). >>>> * Unreliable datagram communication, functionality not >>>> available in Websockets.. >>>> * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web's origin-based >>>> security model. >>>> >>>> The WebTransport working group will define three variants: >>>> * A protocol directly running over QUIC with its own ALPN. >>>> * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3. >>>> * Fallback protocols that can be used when QUIC or UDP >>>> is not available. >>>> >>>> The group will pay attention to security issues arising from >>>> the above scenarios so as to ensure against creation of new >>>> modes of attack, as well as to ensure that security issues >>>> addressed in the design of Websockets remain addressed >>>> in the new work. >>>> >>>> The group will coordinate with the W3C Web Incubation Community >>>> Group (WICG) with respect to the above deliverables to ensure the >>>> best possible match between the WebTransport protocol extensions >>>> and the W3C WebTransport API. The group will also coordinate with >>>> other working groups within the IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as >>>> appropriate. >>>> >>>> Goals and Milestones: >>>> >>>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work >>>> item >>>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work item >>>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work >>>> item >>>> March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work >>>> item >>>> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3 >>>> September 2020 - Issue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism >>>> November 2020 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over QUIC >>>> November 2020 - Issue WG last call for QUIC fallback mechanism >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Webtransport mailing list >>> Webtransport@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport >>> >> --0000000000003414520595adf39f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is an updated Charter.=C2=A0 Is this better?=C2=A0=

WebTransport (WEBTRA= NS)
-----------------------------= ----------------
Charter

Chairs:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0TBD

Applications and Real-Time Area Directors:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org><= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alexey Melnikov <= aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Adam Roach <= adam@nostrum.com>

Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>

Mailing Li= sts:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0General = Discussion: webtransport@ietf.org<= /a>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Archive:=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtra= nsport/

Description of Working Group:

The W= ebTransport working group will define new protocols or
protocol extensions in order to support the developme= nt of the
W3C WebTra= nsport API <https://wic= g.github.io/web-transport>.=C2=A0

These protocols will= support:
=C2=A0 * Reliable bidir= ectional and unidirectional communication
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that provides greater efficiency than Websockets
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (e.g. removal of head-= of-line blocking).
=C2=A0 * Unrel= iable datagram communication, functionality not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 available in Websockets.
=C2=A0 * Origin checks to allow supporting the Web'= ;s origin-based
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sec= urity model.

The WebTransport working group will define three= variants:
=C2=A0 * A protocol di= rectly running over QUIC with its own ALPN.
=C2=A0 * A protocol that runs multiplexed with HTTP/3.
=C2=A0 * Fallback protocols that can be us= ed when QUIC or UDP=C2=A0
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 are not available.

The group will pay attention to sec= urity issues arising from
the abo= ve scenarios so as to ensure against creation of new
modes of attack, as well as to ensure that security iss= ues
addressed in the design of We= bsockets remain addressed
in the = new work.

<= font face=3D"monospace">To assist in the coordination with W3C, the group w= ill
initially develop an overview= document=C2=A0containing=C2=A0use cases
and requirements in order to clarify=C2=A0the goals of the effort.
Feedback will also be solicited at various point= s along the way
in order to ensur= e=C2=A0the best possible match= between=C2=A0the protocol
extensions=C2=A0= and the needs of the W3C WebTransport= API.=C2=A0The clarity<= /div>
and interoperability of=C2= =A0specifications will be conf= irmed via test
event= s and hackathons.

=
The group will also coordinate w= ith other working groups within
t= he IETF (e.g. QUIC, HTTPBIS) as appropriate.=C2=A0

<= /div>
Goals and Milestones:
<= font face=3D"monospace">
=C2= =A0 March 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Adopt a WebTransport Overview draft as = a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Adopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work = item
=C2=A0 March 2020=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0- Adopt a draft on WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0- Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0- Ado= pt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a WG work item
= =C2=A0 August 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Issue WG = last call of the WebTransport Overview document.
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on WebTrans= port over QUIC
=C2=A0 November 20= 20=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on=C2=A0QUIC fallback mechanism
= =C2=A0 February 2021=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on WebTransport over HTTP/3=
=C2=A0 February 2021=C2=A0 - Iss= ue WG last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism
=

On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 12:27 PM = Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@= gmail.com> wrote:
Lucas said:= =C2=A0

"With that in = mind, how would you foresee the running code aspect of the process. Would t= here be some opportunity to do interop such as at the Hackathon?"

[BA] One can argue that the draft mileston= es are optimistic, given experience.=C2=A0 So we can increase the timeline = to better conform to reality.=C2=A0 From the comments, it seems like the si= mplest work items (e.g. WebTransport for QUIC) are likely to be implemented= first; the HTTP-related items will be likely to take longer. Having succes= sful interop tests/Hackathon experience will confirm that the specification= s are sufficiently clear to yield interoperable implementations.=C2=A0

Victor said:=C2=A0

"I also feel we should be somewhat more explicit about what po= ints we expect to coordinate with W3C (i.e. we should coordinate=C2=A0on re= quirements, but not on protocol details)."

[B= A] That is a good point.=C2=A0 The current Draft Charter does not include= =C2=A0a requirements document.=C2=A0 Would it make sense to add that as a w= ork item?=C2=A0

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 3:06 PM Victor Vas= iliev <vasilvv@g= oogle.com> wrote:
Hello Bernard,

Thanks for th= e charter draft!

I have a few suggestions:
  1. I think in terms of milestones, we might want to put=C2=A0WebTra= nsport over QUIC earlier than=C2=A0WebTransport over HTTP/[23], since it= 9;s both simpler in nature and is currently under active development in Chr= omium.
  2. I'm not sure it would be wise to explicitly put WICG int= o the charter, as WICG expects the specs to migrate elsewhere as soon as th= ey reach a certain level of maturity (so we'd need a recharter when tha= t happens, which I'd prefer to avoid).
I also feel we sho= uld be somewhat more explicit about what points we expect to coordinate wit= h W3C (i.e. we should coordinate=C2=A0on requirements, but not on protocol = details).

On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 5:35 PM Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmai= l.com> wrote:
As many of you may have noticed= , there will=C2=A0be a (non-WG forming) WEBTRANS BOF at IETF 106:=C2=A0

Wit= h the IETF 106 schedule due to be finalized soon, we are working on a draft= agenda which we hope to post to this list sometime next week.=C2=A0
<= div>
While the upcoming IETF 106 BOF is non-WG forming, we ha= ve gotten some feedback from the IESG=C2=A0 suggesting that we jumpstart di= scussion of a potential WG charter.=C2=A0 So as to solicit feedback, we'= ;ve put together an early draft of a charter proposal, which is enclosed be= low.=C2=A0

Please note tha= t this proposal assumes that dependencies such as work on QUIC datagrams (e= .g. draft-pauly-quic-datagram and draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram=C2=A0 ) w= ill be handled elsewhere, such as in a re-chartered QUIC WG.=C2=A0
=
WebTransport (WEBTRANS)
--------------------------= -------------------
Charter

Chairs:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ber= nard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>

Applications and = Real-Time Area Directors:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@comput= er.org>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm>

=
Applications and Real-Time Area Advisor:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>

Mailing Lists= :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0General Discussion:=C2=A0webtransport@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To Subscribe:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Archive:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0https:/= /mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/webtransport/

Description of Working Group:

The WebTransport w= orking group will define new protocols or
protocol extensions in = order to support the needs of the W3C

These protocols = will support:
=C2=A0 * Reliable bidirectional and unidirectional = communication
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that provides greater efficiency than= Websockets
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (e.g. removal of head-of-line blocking)= .
=C2=A0 * Unreliable datagram communication, functionality not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 available in Websockets..
=C2=A0 * Origin = checks to allow supporting the Web's origin-based
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 security model.

The WebTransport working group= will define three variants:
=C2=A0 * A protocol directly running= over QUIC with its own ALPN.
=C2=A0 * A protocol that runs multi= plexed with HTTP/3.
=C2=A0 * Fallback protocols that can be used = when QUIC or UDP=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 is not available.
=
The group will pay attention to security issues arising from=
the above scenarios so as to ensure against creation of new
modes of attack, as well as to ensure that security issues
= addressed in the design of Websockets remain addressed
in the new= work.

The group will coordinate with the W3C Web = Incubation Community
Group (WICG) with respect to the above deliv= erables to ensure the
best possible match between the WebTranspor= t protocol extensions
and the W3C WebTransport API. The group wil= l also coordinate with
other working groups within the IETF (e.g.= QUIC, HTTPBIS) as
appropriate.

Goals an= d Milestones:

=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on= WebTransport over HTTP/3 as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - A= dopt a draft on WebTransport over QUIC as a WG work item
=C2=A0 M= arch 2020 - Adopt a draft on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism as a WG work item
=C2=A0 March 2020 - Adopt a draft on a QUIC fallback mechanism as a= WG work item
=C2=A0 September 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG last call on= WebTransport over HTTP/3
=C2=A0 September 2020=C2=A0 - Issue WG = last call on HTTP/2 fallback mechanism
=C2=A0 November 2020=C2=A0= =C2=A0- Issue WG last call on WebTransport over QUIC
=C2=A0 Nove= mber 2020=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Issue WG last call for QUIC fallback mechanism


<= /div>
--
Webtransport mailing list
Webtransport@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/webtransport=
--0000000000003414520595adf39f-- From nobody Fri Oct 25 14:17:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietf.org Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96C3B1209F5; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 14:12:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: webtransport@ietf.org, barryleiba@computer.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.108.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <157203793261.2724.7395097868648474194.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 14:12:12 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Webtransport] webtrans - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 106 X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 21:12:25 -0000 Dear Amy Vezza, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. webtrans Session 1 (1:30 requested) Wednesday, 20 November 2019, Afternoon Session I 1330-1500 Room Name: Collyer size: 250 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/sessions/webtrans.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: WebTransport Area Name: Applications and Real-Time Area Session Requester: Amy Vezza Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: Technology Overlap: quic httpbis core tls dnssd tsvarea taps ice People who must be present: Barry Leiba Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Oct 25 15:18:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E69B120041 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:18:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5HLjT__STwNr for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2896120020 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id b20so3046418lfp.4 for ; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:18:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jQ13rUfzIV1vrPdXRzPB0+mFsSVjVgidmYyB3ONXPhU=; b=r0eYYpuCwL1ZoOV9DllFWQC6z78rmSGKirOG3UsMWk1310Rva/XDnsVxVNIrxb9/7E +japMdIE3nNeVZnU+9gZvoxTBokyEliLQL+DB1st9ZpP8eAYGfh/rEIE1ypmvMCz/RIi J1Jv9cJlP0OWaNSaOrmDHCZwo+3zXB0VVV98jfdPYdAKXIQ0e+ikRQPNGgaKBQsTSQO/ aQ/E5fI2NbKCPgp5wNvl1cjacDyYCAoRt+yGEyq/+bdiHhxLz/DCOXuZOLMvGH4w4OMV Iy0nDxPU321Jquid6O6ngtxto8uwvYYUsoae/IRDjAELEMgFxY3h6ALIgrhMBro6uJK+ jt6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jQ13rUfzIV1vrPdXRzPB0+mFsSVjVgidmYyB3ONXPhU=; b=qH7pGbq4zdTZeQRd8CdJjQY6ygU3sBLLnZwBg7O2ZN0KzEMMbwrA99Faf43zE7K0Wu hXAplDW1Ds5vpJQJicBmD7H5LSY3E8PqcZD48YNjNfOg1yTC1Y9QhFUpMyL7X67D25Lw ljvf+biPAdbkem0XIWfhUWmj6MFUZGGeeo5RGGcFaIgbxJ7WKx9gyzt+TEQIv2F3R2w2 jp7Txbw4LTHb9jk3PP77m1LsOZZikKkDgJcFxwBArOGBk6BCu4z5UKwuNFw0F0t8xzmG TYmm5klCmEEhWAV4k5UkzLs8+9y7CvaZxj5pkR6dXHEvx7o4rEqbYhXUqD9bCIToZTYa qoww== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXJISfi080swlpT+q/Es3zC1VE1/Zxj/Iy7t5lwccW3bQMPW8eT xfHuMYCITmzN0HUNt20p3g4pJ8kXSQ2yu4IVltW95X7t X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz/+EHr9DRTGke84THKnARHbmgVZbmr1cx2oJqvwKU4UA1HPZ0b2tCHuE/OZykwWTbz/n9DAoAluHaKCuDVnx8= X-Received: by 2002:a19:41c8:: with SMTP id o191mr4165005lfa.101.1572041927146; Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:18:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Bernard Aboba Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 15:18:36 -0700 Message-ID: To: webtransport@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a3c4690595c3889a" Archived-At: Subject: [Webtransport] Request for feedback: IETF 106 WEBTRANS BOF Agenda X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 22:18:52 -0000 --000000000000a3c4690595c3889a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Now that the final schedule has been posted for IETF 106, here is a first draft of the agenda for the WEBTRANS BOF. Comments welcome. WEBTRANS BOF Agenda Applications and Real-Time Area (ART) Wednesday, November 20, 2019 13:30 - 15:00 Room: Collyer Mailing list: webtransport@ietf.org Remote video: https://www.meetecho.com/ietf106/webtrans/ 13:30 - 13:35 PM Preliminaries (5 minutes) Agenda Bash Bluesheets Minute takers Jabber scribe 13:35 - 13:55 PM Use Cases and Requirements (20 minutes) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vvv-webtransport-overview Machine Learning APIs Communications Platform APIs Web Gaming Requirements/Summary 13:55 - 14:35 Relevant Drafts (40 minutes) An Unreliable Datagram Extension to QUIC (Tommy Pauly, 10 minutes) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pauly-quic-datagram Using QUIC Datagrams with HTTP/3 (David Schinazi, 5 minutes) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datagram WebTransport over QUIC (Victor, Vailiev, 5 minutes) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vvv-webtransport-quic HTTP/2 as a Transport for Arbitrary Bytestreams (Eric Kinnear & Tommy Pauly, 10 minutes) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kinnear-httpbis-http2-transport WebTransport over HTTP/3 (Victor Vasiliev, 10 minutes) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vvv-webtransport-http3 14:35 - 14:45 Potential Charter (10 minutes) 14:45 PM - 15:00 PM Wrapup and Summary (15 minutes) --000000000000a3c4690595c3889a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Now that the final schedule has been posted for IETF 106, = here is a first draft of the agenda for the WEBTRANS BOF.=C2=A0 Comments we= lcome.=C2=A0


WEBTRANS BOF Agenda
A= pplications and Real-Time Area (ART)
Wednesday, November 20, 2019
13:= 30 - 15:00
Room: Collyer
Mailing list: webtransport@ietf.org
Remote video: https://www.meetecho.com/ietf106/webtrans= /

13:30 - 13:35 PM Preliminaries (5 minutes)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Age= nda Bash
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Bluesheets
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Minute takers
=C2=A0= =C2=A0Jabber scribe

13:35 - 13:55 PM Use Cases and Requirements (20= minutes)
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vvv-webtransport-overview
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Machine Learning APIs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Communications Pla= tform APIs
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Web Gaming
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Requirements/Summary<= br>
13:55 - 14:35 Relevant Drafts (40 minutes)

An Unreliable Data= gram Extension to QUIC (Tommy Pauly, 10 minutes)
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-pauly-quic-datagram

Using QUIC Datagrams with HTTP/3 (David Sc= hinazi, 5 minutes)
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-schinazi-quic-h3-datag= ram

WebTransport over QUIC (Victor, Vailiev, 5 minutes)
https://tool= s.ietf.org/html/draft-vvv-webtransport-quic

HTTP/2 as a Transpor= t for Arbitrary Bytestreams (Eric Kinnear & Tommy Pauly, 10 minutes)https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kinnear-httpbis-http2-transport
WebTransport over HTTP/3 (Victor Vasiliev, 10 minutes)
https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-vvv-webtransport-http3

14:35 - 14:45 Potential = Charter (10 minutes)

14:45 PM - 15:00 PM Wrapup and Summary (15 minu= tes)
--000000000000a3c4690595c3889a-- From nobody Mon Oct 28 11:03:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: webtransport@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF2311201DE for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:03:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id slSidTJr4BfU for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E1F412007A for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id m9so2682278ljh.8 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:03:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=wbffVyf/eQXz79HtPXCkBZzn41aNENvj3ZdEqI7FdY0=; b=Hm8EoFLgLyW70m15IZIJeqgQhUR1to5J0rReRbnuGNcdoneuuUK2HICn2RfpblFksj cAjUHzZ85QcKjFyOWu7VKDdp9hJhvLbrb3Lct4AAsEPVuH5R+UyOKn/rPoIVR3ZMSS1v /cm+iypij2U6q3116bzXVVow6zvEUBxQpNZmVQT+tAOIr+4e1BM2uNFmmbPReY/+mpLB 8JYN4rQmIRpd2iQUl9r4DX7ElOSkxJtNOObKhTWPfAFTqGpdh415X2ybPu1Vr/PKDON6 T4nUx8UoSDW1n3v/PkW+Z4r+fozl+GQcgzlkL9TBTesZmvJqUThizmuernvDUpJ7SVDu 6YPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=wbffVyf/eQXz79HtPXCkBZzn41aNENvj3ZdEqI7FdY0=; b=PLSpVDH3VDW7zjpzbDOlt2kg+9+H4//+HFu5OoOgZvUSrqVC34DXGhif3Ybps9wru+ 54cHtC2Kp+Nz/UtpSoHYjheHng5UQ4EcRKG/DO4bSOKMXZV8rC7768GzFfmlR4siD46B Wh0S1x6J1/e4r923xjzt3+tbuvGz1wQKAT3kKXT+Scw+ZHsbbslxaA1wP712HZ4/T/pW 7cU5Dgf4us27aMrd2c/EmwOaKDhrIb9pxlazhdAaxcaH5XBwCqqmL6QN5TZ5EJFmT+Jf /pudaL/oeyp1GLx7G0o+vBFHvUs0slyOnJzgeIsp37yOggkEHdknYFBYhTNJxHCoGRdp 39Xw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWTV8Z0Yu2CY8eoyplAfMkuv0mh0+DvtORcRwZ5KSPKDynTahNf u54fdNFuKHBwtr7eiAifgzhLBTYlBI7Ui+dwNS0O8Nj6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzg5JStH2u9MWwaVh733/xYxwsWMtXdq0CRad8+ieO9IiQdJkfBPlunWQtrz5bYYJXO5Sw9ddT21d1I/KggYrg= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:90d2:: with SMTP id o18mr5070568ljg.161.1572285823029; Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:03:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Bernard Aboba Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 11:03:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: webtransport@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f796c40595fc5124" Archived-At: Subject: [Webtransport] WEBTRANS GITHUB Repository X-BeenThere: webtransport@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2019 18:03:47 -0000 --000000000000f796c40595fc5124 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" We now have a Github repository containing the IETF 106 WEBTRANS BOF Agenda as well as a draft WG Charter: https://github.com/DavidSchinazi/webtrans-wg-materials If you have changes to propose to either the BOF agenda or WG Charter, you can now submit them as a PR. --000000000000f796c40595fc5124 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We now have a Github repository containin= g the IETF 106 WEBTRANS BOF Agenda as well as a draft WG Charter:

= If you have changes to propose to either the BOF agenda or WG Charter, you = can now submit them as a PR.=C2=A0
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