From mlarson@verisign.com Fri Mar 9 11:19:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4942621F860E for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:19:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0-cvIoZbYeeW for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:19:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.kahlerlarson.org (tornado.kahlerlarson.org [64.22.125.99]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 510A221F858F for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:19:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.kahlerlarson.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C517137CE4 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:19:44 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Larson Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_525EC1B3-4248-4968-B0D9-4D91EA446814"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 14:19:41 -0500 Message-Id: To: weirds@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Subject: [weirds] Whois operational message X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 19:19:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_525EC1B3-4248-4968-B0D9-4D91EA446814 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 This message contains operational information that might be of interest. = Verisign is enabling IPv6 transport for its .com/.net Whois service = (which also contains information for .edu, .arpa, and the root zone). =20= By March 31, 2012, Verisign will begin accepting queries to the = aforementioned Whois service over IPv6 transport in addition to IPv4. = Accordingly, DNS queries for the Whois server host names = whois.verisign-grs.com, whois.verisign-grs.net, whois.crsnic.net, = whois.nsiregistry.com, and whois.nsiregistry.net will return both A and = AAAA records. If you have any questions or comments, please send email to = info@verisign=E2=80=90grs.com or reply to this message. Matt Larson --Apple-Mail=_525EC1B3-4248-4968-B0D9-4D91EA446814 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) iQEVAwUBT1pXztdGiUJktOYBAQI9hAf/R7nPnvSfB0QxpossqLpwYHOcaVQ53gIH i8Ogoj++A0yyIMXgzbNO4zjywh5cnRKt/0Hk/m7djFWC2BCZi1q3L8YnByNCfGtd OpDABhMWG2Zas53I1MeLtxzU0iYG6PINlQIv61aUObwxzUmYJgfJVybkR1IW0haE 6vlIyBntjpqHyK9cJ2zDEr3qynU4hajSHrIhwRHyzcyo0Nci/Net3YGIzo+VuvgW WtNjPvW5y2hzYxn0XOK7/pWk/w5bpIKtJqAKRXkjFmNIt1fdW7dJUXy50DmFsRBD thjUt8lj4CP0rI9sNBpjPZiYct31pEfff0Xb+ul7DA4omkcf5vsAaw== =CsA0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_525EC1B3-4248-4968-B0D9-4D91EA446814-- From andy@arin.net Sun Mar 11 10:21:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE15621F8619 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:21:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cfx8isjiLlDJ for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F8AB21F864D for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id A2138213645; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E83921363D for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:20:50 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.55]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:21:18 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHM/6rXijpibFvbGEmjzYtVNN6+UQ== Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:21:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20120311171729.15111.78947.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8C20E42F0800E4438E17515B8C900F63@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:21:31 -0000 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query/ Begin forwarded message: > From: > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query= -01.txt > Date: March 11, 2012 1:17:29 PM EDT > To: > Cc: , , >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query-01.txt has been= successfully submitted by Andrew Lee Newton and posted to the IETF reposit= ory. >=20 > Filename: draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query > Revision: 01 > Title: A Uniform RESTful URL Query Pattern for RIRs > Creation date: 2012-03-11 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 11 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes uniform patterns for which to construct HTTP > URLs that may be used to retreive information from Regional Internet > Registries (RIRs) using "RESTful" web access patterns. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat From andy@arin.net Sun Mar 11 10:22:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1F5021F8688 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:22:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yPHAtUOkvqQX for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C176721F8648 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:22:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 74B0E213645; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:22:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA68D21363D for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:21:45 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.55]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 13:21:45 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHM/6qqSE8mQhGo60my0EQNd1IGYA== Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:21:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20120311171613.14605.32488.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4C8DE0F07C50E34D93CFB941F5A0B0EF@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:22:07 -0000 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-respons= e/ Begin forwarded message: > From: > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-= response-01.txt > Date: March 11, 2012 1:16:13 PM EDT > To: > Cc: , , >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01.txt = has been successfully submitted by Andrew Lee Newton and posted to the IETF= repository. >=20 > Filename: draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response > Revision: 01 > Title: JSON Responses to RESTful URL Queries for RIRs > Creation date: 2012-03-11 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 17 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes responses in the JSON format to the RESTful > queries described in draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat From steve.sheng@icann.org Mon Mar 12 21:02:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F32E11E8079 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:02:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gq69dsTGEXOn for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E30911E8072 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:02:14 -0700 From: Steve Sheng To: "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:02:07 -0700 Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0AzhMjjz5P65HjQTSr5doOclGtHA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:02:16 -0000 Dear IETF colleagues, A few of us from ICANN, ISC and CNNIC worked together and revised the earlier domain draft. In this draft, we tried to follow the RIR query pattern as much as possible, and have also added considerations for querying IDNs and displaying internationalized registration data, since this is a major concern for domain registries. Here is the URL of the draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there more domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this? Kind regards,=20 Steve -----Original Message----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:06:50 -0700 To: Francisco Arias Cc: Steve Sheng , "nkong@cnnic.cn" , "fobispo@isc.org" Subject: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >A new version of I-D, draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt has been >successfully submitted by Francisco Arias and posted to the IETF >repository. > >Filename: draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd >Revision: 01 >Title: A RESTful Web Service for Domain Name Registration Data >(RWS-DNRD) >Creation date: 2012-03-12 >WG ID: Individual Submission >Number of pages: 22 > >Abstract: > This document specifies a RESTful Web Service for querying Domain > Name Registration Data (WHOIS data). > > The purpose of this document is to facilitate discussion and serve as > input into a standards process in this area, currently being > discussed on the Worthwhile Extensible Internet Registry Data Service > (WEIRDS) mailing list (https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds). > =20 > =20 From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Mar 13 04:21:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A2621F8797 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:21:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rOx5s-1sGaUq for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og105.obsmtp.com (exprod6og105.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.189]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA77921F8793 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob105.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT18tl6DBDK82PE9u5tlnErjKHnLms3d3@postini.com; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:21:16 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2DBKpkM010483; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:20:51 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.139]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:20:50 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.206]) by dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:20:50 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:20:50 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Steve Sheng , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0AzhMjjz5P65HjQTSr5doOclGtHAAO3KDA Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:20:49 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2012 11:20:50.0508 (UTC) FILETIME=[588658C0:01CD010B] Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:21:17 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Steve Sheng > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:02 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds- > icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >=20 > Dear IETF colleagues, >=20 > A few of us from ICANN, ISC and CNNIC worked together and revised the > earlier domain draft. In this draft, we tried to follow the RIR query > pattern as much as possible, and have also added considerations for > querying IDNs and displaying internationalized registration data, since > this is a major concern for domain registries. >=20 > Here is the URL of the draft: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 >=20 >=20 > We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral > outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there > more > domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this? I am willing to work on this. I am employed by Verisign, registry operator = for .com, .net, and a number of smaller TLDs. Scott From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Tue Mar 13 04:30:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B67821F8766 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:30:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.236 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.236 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.362, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QvpIE4GWEwNO for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mx3.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8FB721F874A for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:30:10 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: MIME-Version; b=TBtHkh3UuAN/KrwZNAkXxRfqTCVtwI5kAJCC33JDldN/zv/3iKuNiaLz fQl/ryCHCiIsWL2J1keOepO8l4MN7gvt/JNHo/r/6FZFpdfqR1U6WE+7X s1YEFWlKKqbM64t; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1331638210; x=1363174210; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20New=20Version=20Notification =20for=0D=0A=20draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt |Date:=20Tue,=2013=20Mar=202012=2011:30:08=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20|To:=20"weirds@ietf.org"=20 |MIME-Version:=201.0|In-Reply-To:=20<831693C2CDA2E849A7D7 A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> |References:=20<20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa .amsl.com>=0D=0A=20 =0D=0A=20<831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WN EXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>; bh=e/CoEMeBcf/peQZ2FDhcIonykEHJj4qigW66O7w8k40=; b=kiFEQnBdScPgk07MOm3BKwvMpnQRB+r2EXFV2Nq4E4d+NaqOygqZpXog 6PbqiqH/6hX0VB+VcoDpV782TWPLV0ic55m5yBPFum9t+1qNRofoIn0X+ 9vmCoPRfcNzmV4w; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,576,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="38784624" Received: from wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.145]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 13 Mar 2012 11:30:09 +0000 Received: from WDS-EXC1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f]) by wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4%19]) with mapi; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:30:09 +0000 From: Ray Bellis To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNAQylZ6B7aQeJoEmjzRI/rEt2xA== Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:30:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FE341332F281417D86984F491DBAEF7Bnominetorguk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:30:11 -0000 --_000_FE341332F281417D86984F491DBAEF7Bnominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 13 Mar 2012, at 11:20, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: I am willing to work on this. Likewise, employed by .uk That said, I'd rather see a separation between the query pattern specificat= ion and the response specifications, as Andy Newton has done for the RIR ob= jects. Ray --_000_FE341332F281417D86984F491DBAEF7Bnominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 13 Mar 2012, at 11:2= 0, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote:

I am willing to work on = this. 

Likewise, employed by .uk<= /div>

That said, I'd rather see a separation between the= query pattern specification and the response specifications, as Andy Newto= n has done for the RIR objects.

Ray

=
= --_000_FE341332F281417D86984F491DBAEF7Bnominetorguk_-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Mar 13 04:42:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE1021F8816 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:42:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.563 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.563 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dmfQQ8Bnh8lw for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:42:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og103.obsmtp.com (exprod6og103.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.185]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A25721F880F for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob103.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT18yitxwpkJg8w2hNqJTPC5zZqZXAl9w@postini.com; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 04:42:04 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2DBg1Iw009098; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:42:02 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.139]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:42:01 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.206]) by dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:42:01 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 07:42:01 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Ray Bellis , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNAQypz/e7sfU0vEiYKZHR12yEy5ZoGdVA Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:42:00 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BF06A@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BF06ABRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2012 11:42:01.0313 (UTC) FILETIME=[4DFBCD10:01CD010E] Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:42:05 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BF06ABRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Ray Bellis Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:30 AM To: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann= -rws-dnrd-01.txt On 13 Mar 2012, at 11:20, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: I am willing to work on this. Likewise, employed by .uk That said, I'd rather see a separation between the query pattern specificat= ion and the response specifications, as Andy Newton has done for the RIR ob= jects. Ray I concur. I'm also willing to help with document writing. Scott --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BF06ABRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: weirds-b= ounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ray Bellis
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:30 AM
To: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weird= s-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt

 

 

On 13 Mar 2012, at 11:20, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote:


I am willing to work on this. 

 

Likewise, employed by .uk

 

That said, I'd rather see a separation between the q= uery pattern specification and the response specifications, as Andy Newton = has done for the RIR objects.

 

Ray

 

I concur. I’m also = willing to help with document writing.

 <= /p>

Scott

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BF06ABRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From gavin.brown@centralnic.com Tue Mar 13 05:05:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EE5C21F86EE for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 05:05:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ubE3oaMq4kbw for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 05:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.centralnic.com (smtp.centralnic.com [193.105.170.131]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C6321F86E8 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 05:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gavins-iMac.local (82-68-174-114.in-addr.centralnic.net [82.68.174.114]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.centralnic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77655712C12; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:05:04 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4F5F37EF.1020804@centralnic.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:05:03 +0000 From: Gavin Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Sheng References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:05:07 -0000 On 13/03/2012 04:02, Steve Sheng wrote: > Dear IETF colleagues, > > A few of us from ICANN, ISC and CNNIC worked together and revised the > earlier domain draft. In this draft, we tried to follow the RIR query > pattern as much as possible, and have also added considerations for > querying IDNs and displaying internationalized registration data, since > this is a major concern for domain registries. > > Here is the URL of the draft: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 > > > We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral > outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there more > domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this? CentralNic supports this effort and we are willing to work on it. Gavin. -- Gavin Brown Chief Technology Officer CentralNic Ltd Innovative, Reliable and Flexible Registry Services for ccTLD, gTLD and private domain name registries https://www.centralnic.com/ CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. From aservin@lacnic.net Tue Mar 13 09:25:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 032A621E8042 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:25:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.626 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.626 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.197, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D8mfadeX3Crh for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD2821E803D for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.196.232.94] (unknown [199.91.194.1]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id E83F8308427; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:25:32 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_853D6F8A-BA86-41B9-91C0-50F2D5430CC3" From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:25:32 -0600 Message-Id: References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: Steve Sheng X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:25:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_853D6F8A-BA86-41B9-91C0-50F2D5430CC3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nice! I am willing to review and comment. On 13 Mar 2012, at 05:30, Ray Bellis wrote: > That said, I'd rather see a separation between the query pattern = specification and the response specifications, as Andy Newton has done = for the RIR objects. +1 I think the separation is healthy. Also, why to complicate your life with XML?=20 I think it would be easier to define the model using json and = then to export the schema to XML. Doing the other way around I think is = more complex. Regards as= --Apple-Mail=_853D6F8A-BA86-41B9-91C0-50F2D5430CC3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii = Nice!

I am willing to review and = comment.

On 13 Mar 2012, at 05:30, Ray Bellis = wrote:

That said, = I'd rather see a separation between the query pattern specification and = the response specifications, as Andy Newton has done for the RIR = objects.

+1

I think = the separation is healthy.

Also, why = to complicate your life with XML? 

I think = it would be easier to define the model using json and then to export the = schema to XML. Doing the other way around I think is more = complex.

Regards
as= --Apple-Mail=_853D6F8A-BA86-41B9-91C0-50F2D5430CC3-- From fobispo@isc.org Tue Mar 13 09:32:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2905B21E8034 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:32:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 84kpY6mLz6Pz for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4415621F8792 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ACE65F98B7; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:31:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 364B4216C33; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:31:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:31:42 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: Arturo Servin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:32:00 -0000 Not really, At first JSON might seem like the best option, however, XML provides = much more than just data exchange: 1) Validation: it is usually one more line of code, and it allows you to = ensure that the data received matches a certain set of rules, doing so = in JSON requires additional code to be written to validate data = structures. 2) Namespaces: clear namespace declarations, allow to have separation = between the enclosure and the data contained within. 3) Presentation: XML has XSLT and Stylesheets, that enable the browser = to transform, and present an end-user with a pretty version without any = additional effort. JSON requires some code within the server to = translate it before presentation. JSON is not being left out at this point, we're just proposing an XML = model because it just seems more suitable for the task.=20 Francisco On Mar 13, 2012, at 9:25 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: > Also, why to complicate your life with XML?=20 >=20 > I think it would be easier to define the model using json and = then to export the schema to XML. Doing the other way around I think is = more complex. >=20 Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Tue Mar 13 09:43:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3126D21F8646 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:43:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.269 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.269 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.330, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QVPJOE+dQf7i for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mx3.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EB7521F84B6 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:43:43 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=2zBkAuerJd9MouLLRHXDaiZBlaSWdkNgc2+2XFrjV2PMYzXJX1g/KXNO E2C29+QKBOZotTW00sK52ZjBB3UIj3ZrjiCsuhoJRTThESOmj/Oo7vD4X 9v7nnLMx5rsSibH; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1331657023; x=1363193023; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20New=20Version=20Notification =20for=0D=0A=09draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt |Date:=20Tue,=2013=20Mar=202012=2016:43:33=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20<447EBA8F-7EC3-4654-BEC2-FD89250E5C30@nomi net.org.uk>|To:=20Arturo=20Servin=20 |CC:=20"weirds@ietf.org"=20 |MIME-Version:=201.0|Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted- printable|Content-ID:=20|In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20<20120312220650.4856.14618.id tracker@ietfa.amsl.com>=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20<831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D 5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com>=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20; bh=hVxHx7fb84B+B1ZgDTgy+hZmT82sJ2+I9iYvEh7uznQ=; b=gaAN2FduaSpWy7xsqu9INec4Ugeva93EzsbkH9TKwbkPLQUNm4hQrmFR Bf73PSL3bsZ1VQykqNyelB4hN5DXWnMBUTCePrr5S03anxAeb/O5/H/JH eTuMOrpMpeXSCpR; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,577,1325462400"; d="scan'208";a="38787947" Received: from wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.145]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 13 Mar 2012 16:43:34 +0000 Received: from WDS-EXC1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f]) by wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4%19]) with mapi; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:43:33 +0000 From: Ray Bellis To: Arturo Servin Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNATXxGfa6u5jlUE272lh1pK36dpZobm+A Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:43:33 +0000 Message-ID: <447EBA8F-7EC3-4654-BEC2-FD89250E5C30@nominet.org.uk> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:43:47 -0000 On 13 Mar 2012, at 16:25, Arturo Servin wrote: > +1 >=20 > I think the separation is healthy. >=20 > Also, why to complicate your life with XML?=20 I'm no fan of XML, indeed quite the opposite! However I do see the logic in re-using the XML elements defined for EPP in = this case. I would just prefer not to see the XML schema and query pattern in the same= document. kind regards, Ray From Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz Tue Mar 13 09:54:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B9921F871E for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:54:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.614 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.614 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.504, BAYES_05=-1.11, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pc1FqrCMfLCQ for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA89221F86A3 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Work-Laptop-2.local (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2DGsCA2023502; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:54:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Received: from [192.168.128.183] by Work-Laptop-2.local (PGP Universal service); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:54:13 -0600 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by Work-Laptop-2.local on Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:54:13 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:49:51 -0600 To: weirds@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 10.20.30.4 Subject: [weirds] Support for forming a WG X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:54:15 -0000 I just joined the list, so I can't reply with anything to say "me too", but I wanted to say that a replacement for the current port 43 protocol (WhoIs) is sorely needed. Given the flop of IRIS, I think we also have a good example what what the next generation of WhoIs is not going to be. I was part of the CRISP WG and think the work within that group went well. Still the final product wasn't a success (despite delegating iris.arpa.!). This time we need to go a step further, so I think a WG is a good idea. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 2012...time to reuse those 1984 calendars! From Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz Tue Mar 13 09:54:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C3A21F8794 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:54:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.338 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.338 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.261, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bBMISywNsYG8 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E91A921F871E for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Work-Laptop-2.local (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2DGsCA4023502; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:54:14 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Received: from [192.168.128.183] by Work-Laptop-2.local (PGP Universal service); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:54:15 -0600 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by Work-Laptop-2.local on Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:54:15 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:54:04 -0600 To: weirds@ietf.org From: Edward Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 10.20.30.4 Subject: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:54:17 -0000 In the sense that we want to avoid the fate of IRIS, it would be good to enumerate why IRIS went no where. I'm just throwing these out there for discussion: I've heard that the transport was not a good choice. I see a beginning debate over the use of XML. What aspects of IRIS are the reasons we are now starting another WG on essentially the same topic? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 2012...time to reuse those 1984 calendars! From fneves@registro.br Tue Mar 13 10:16:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763BB21E8052 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:16:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.421 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.421 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.179, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3glg4ZWg+yzF for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E888721E804E for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 22B27E053A; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:16:20 -0300 (BRT) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:16:20 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: Edward Lewis Message-ID: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:16:21 -0000 On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:54:04AM -0600, Edward Lewis wrote: > In the sense that we want to avoid the fate of IRIS, it would be good > to enumerate why IRIS went no where. > > I'm just throwing these out there for discussion: > > I've heard that the transport was not a good choice. > > I see a beginning debate over the use of XML. I'll add another one, the need to deploy clients. This is well addressed by the current proposition. Fred From carlosm3011@gmail.com Tue Mar 13 10:58:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B34021E8053 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:58:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.477 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.477 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.122, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bPTTFAS-R4Nj for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F6C121E804E for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhpp34 with SMTP id p34so969360yhp.31 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dmi2VlXadRW4fns36ah73XRUWBH0f7VLg+plf9EEgQk=; b=fQvl3IRhzVnlD8GazJmzC4rk8+iYMbdQFjMX6QH+6Lav+QZLGM3uItPrpHKX7yhc/+ Q+TFFJj4wyjU1UMVhIHu7emikuDH6g2goBA0faJTLDV+A7BjKNhEasBY2MjeA6u92rRi m6dcpYG1p+mfllUCKl/2D7ZB7SvBm+3vglBbRL+ChMrGtG4oAdiEnInuk3SXjOM/7tJj uZcfhbFQuevtJZQyE220J3ETqt3VJRpQ1lW334FMZoKyaEtl37P0VtBrTYLlYKsdKf34 D1TWCgY2g8697P0O2jECO3VShtqLCNTtaI+ZVgUNo9SvXKBtKVyyua4jJ/EqSReh043B HnPA== Received: by 10.101.128.14 with SMTP id f14mr5632410ann.21.1331661516983; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.local ([200.7.85.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a24sm1741059ana.10.2012.03.13.10.58.35 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 10:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F5F8AC9.30407@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:58:33 -0300 From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120129 Thunderbird/10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frederico A C Neves References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> In-Reply-To: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:58:38 -0000 I wasn't in this line of work at the time of IRIS, but I am quite sure that any effort that ties the WHOIS replacement to a specific client that needs to be developed will fail. This is IMO, as Fred says, a strong point in the current line of deploying REST services. regards Carlos On 3/13/12 2:16 PM, Frederico A C Neves wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:54:04AM -0600, Edward Lewis wrote: >> In the sense that we want to avoid the fate of IRIS, it would be good >> to enumerate why IRIS went no where. >> >> I'm just throwing these out there for discussion: >> >> I've heard that the transport was not a good choice. >> >> I see a beginning debate over the use of XML. > I'll add another one, the need to deploy clients. This is well > addressed by the current proposition. > > Fred > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Tue Mar 13 11:08:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7DF21F87DF for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:08:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O7Z4w2+goWh3 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4964D21F87E0 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2DFGLqM013448 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:16:22 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F5F8CFB.3060406@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:07:55 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Support for forming a WG X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:08:03 -0000 Following up on Ed ... I think we need to weaken the uniqueness requirement in "a replacement", as the ICANN gTLD requirement(s) are possibly not uniform in fact (see the difference in registration policies for .cat and .com and the whois incompleteness/inaccuracy for motivation), and differ substantively from the requirement(s) for other legacy TLDs (ARPA, EDU, INT, MIL, GOV) and from the requirement(s) for iso3166 associated TLDs (ASCII or encoded ASCII). Further, unless there is an implicit requirement for a distance-from-root limit on the scope of the post-43-thingie, there are additional substantive differences going up, as well as down, the tree (whether rooted in MdR or Beijing or ...). We already see an insistence upon anonymous access despite the cost of designing to a size-of-max-botnet DDOS resilience, a requirement that may not be common to 43+.gov or 43+.cn or 43+.berkeley.edu, to use "43+." as the post-43-thingie. I think it is reasonable for the EPP/XML/CNOBI set of assumptions to find a standard, but with the design scope not limited to these assumptions, and for similar (possibly syntactically different, and certainly semantically distinct) mechanisms to be specified where other requirements prevail. So I'm for under-specification, and if this means no WG (as WGs are not without their process issues), then fine. But if we can all get along without some business models excluding other business models, then a WG may ... work. $0.02 Eric From patrick@vande-walle.eu Tue Mar 13 13:22:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BDA21F86D7 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:22:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sIoPuXkEXr43 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucifer.abilit.eu (lucifer.abilit.eu [85.93.218.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94FE821F860F for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu (unknown [10.10.13.199]) by lucifer.abilit.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB9AA3600F5 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:22:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B5E3013F6 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:22:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.isoc.lu [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02278-01 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:22:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from Cioran.vande-walle.eu (119.16-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be [87.65.16.119]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: patrick@vande-walle.eu) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BEB4A300473 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:22:06 +0100 (CET) VBR-Info: md=vande-walle.eu; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=vande-walle.eu; s=Sig; t=1331670126; bh=6qsOvahefAk6WH7POxKIUF02WPxcJWMj5PjHlZJUOmY=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=viJ9FWgpk+sY+GaP9mz8DN4bEDBbjZfxOois8zu/ZaZTStVeaxPB5gI11HV5WxDmt rbZgkzNqUe1Bz1qpy3sU3xrL87WqrLnTG0uT/da3a9dw/aHsAhNOAB2yxwEWdL6mAF +S/8PQPR8xfIXNyjd+gclWj9yhuIolGI+vfCtETI= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Cioran.vande-walle.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 544D9240964 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:22:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4F5FAC6A.4000909@vande-walle.eu> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:22:02 +0100 From: Patrick Vande Walle Organization: My own disorganization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120310 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4F5F8CFB.3060406@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: <4F5F8CFB.3060406@abenaki.wabanaki.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.4 (mail2.isoc.lu); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:22:06 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3 Subject: Re: [weirds] Support for forming a WG X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: patrick@vande-walle.eu List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:22:36 -0000 On 13/03/12 19:07, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: > Following up on Ed ... > > I think we need to weaken the uniqueness requirement in "a > replacement", as the ICANN gTLD requirement(s) are possibly not > uniform in fact (see the difference in registration policies for .cat > and .com and the whois incompleteness/inaccuracy for motivation), and > differ substantively from the requirement(s) for other legacy TLDs > (ARPA, EDU, INT, MIL, GOV) Following up on Eric. I have been lurking on this list for some time. I would point out, to expand on what Eric just wrote, that the replacement needs to address the weaknesses of the exisitng WHOIS. One thing to keep in mind is that some registries will need to deal with legal requirements regarding the privacy of personal information. Hence, a design that would not take this into account from the start could possibly fail to attract many followers. Another 2 eurocents. Patrick Vande Walle From msk@cloudmark.com Tue Mar 13 13:26:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACB6421F8634 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:26:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.603 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.603 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.004, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MD8NUDQfjy+O for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4088E21F860F for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by EXCH-HTCAS901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2966:6846:8d89:4681%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:26:24 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Support for forming a WG Thread-Index: AQHNATntbZ5Gzk5xJ0+IQ5VKP3AdmZZo+1KAgAAleAD//4sMAA== Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:26:23 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928088429@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <4F5F8CFB.3060406@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <4F5FAC6A.4000909@vande-walle.eu> In-Reply-To: <4F5FAC6A.4000909@vande-walle.eu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Support for forming a WG X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:26:25 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Patrick Vande Walle > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 1:22 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Support for forming a WG >=20 > Following up on Eric. >=20 > I have been lurking on this list for some time. I would point out, to > expand on what Eric just wrote, that the replacement needs to address > the weaknesses of the exisitng WHOIS. > [...] Hello to the new folks. I think what might be most helpful is for you to read the proposed working = group charter (link below) and comment on whether you agree with them or ha= ve specific suggestions for changes. You might also want to read the discu= ssion threads that followed so you're up to speed on the issues raised by o= thers. We will be meeting at the end of this month in Paris to try to come to some= agreement on the charter in order to form a working group and get started. The charters that have been submitted can be found in this message: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg00476.html There were numerous subsequent discussion threads, all of which can be foun= d by navigation links on that page. -MSK From andy@hxr.us Tue Mar 13 14:04:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5EBB21F8672 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:04:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.372 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.372 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.227, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vHLanZm8vI0u for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ee0-f44.google.com (mail-ee0-f44.google.com [74.125.83.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39C221F8671 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:04:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by eeke51 with SMTP id e51so707059eek.31 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:04:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=v8sgbFtznL+7IJ9uwMmaO3o0bzyUsbVyM9vsSjFvsYo=; b=FWsr44ONjjQVvcZZGYgVCG5QUQtTTzPq9Cwv4or1Atg48acgUM4s1X2hYRcaKHMOYm 58Gh/4f3i+gr2lc3R5o1XKQTwGxE3hLyLXrN9Jzs1OOIa2H7PrCJ7uCUzaG/HfjrIhFQ xLNQlH0G8eWr3wZ2CwbKIOh1kyO+VsPxbGatgxBmeicROigzRZBjButhK6ygFCZkID4d waPd5o1+R4TNt404jbuDnQgK6A9adXDAdmEWJ0tJizmePcOeSCjwB6RnIZ/23OZ3cve5 C131iJFtUtRp/+EcLutl4Ch+CTkxQi0qF9MjLphxFWKMrIiCNwj6NC55CzEyV/58DxZq 05Vg== Received: by 10.229.112.4 with SMTP id u4mr11012qcp.77.1331672674372; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andytop.arin.net (core.arin.net. [192.149.252.11]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h11sm5385288qae.3.2012.03.13.14.04.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:38:05 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> To: Frederico A C Neves X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkv8XwbE1pGqhiYMNypp+HidcCJSdE6EP4mgPViHWdTvwG3UitEqPD3xfQhDWCgl1A3OhhO Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:04:36 -0000 On Mar 13, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Frederico A C Neves wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:54:04AM -0600, Edward Lewis wrote: >> I see a beginning debate over the use of XML. >=20 > I'll add another one, the need to deploy clients. This is well > addressed by the current proposition. These could possibly be intertwined. IRIS certainly makes copious use of = XML. Not that an XML representation is a bad thing, but the starting = assumption that we need validation, namespaces, etc=85 is. No, we don't = need them. And most REST services use JSON and seem to get along just = fine without those things. Been there. Got the t-shirt: = http://www.zazzle.com/xml_is_like_violence_if_it_doesnt_solve_your_tshirt-= 235860791926916918 -andy= From warren@kumari.net Tue Mar 13 14:09:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E6E221F861E for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:09:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wozJ2n7GjwHr for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vimes.kumari.net (vimes.kumari.net [198.186.192.250]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5FF621F84C9 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.196.208.139] (unknown [199.91.193.1]) by vimes.kumari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 44B6B1B407FB; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Warren Kumari In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:09:16 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4906D474-B692-4D23-BC4A-BB8DBB100691@kumari.net> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:09:18 -0000 On Mar 13, 2012, at 5:20 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Steve Sheng >> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:02 AM >> To: weirds@ietf.org >> Subject: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for = draft-sheng-weirds- >> icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >>=20 >> Dear IETF colleagues, >>=20 >> A few of us from ICANN, ISC and CNNIC worked together and revised = the >> earlier domain draft. In this draft, we tried to follow the RIR query >> pattern as much as possible, and have also added considerations for >> querying IDNs and displaying internationalized registration data, = since >> this is a major concern for domain registries. >>=20 >> Here is the URL of the draft: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 >>=20 >>=20 >> We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies = serveral >> outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there >> more >> domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this? >=20 > I am willing to work on this. I am employed by Verisign, registry = operator for .com, .net, and a number of smaller TLDs. I too am willing (and eager) to work on this. While I am not a registry = / registrar, I have worked for a registrar in the past, and am involved = in the security community, one of the future consumers of the data=85. W >=20 > Scott > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 -- Don't be impressed with unintelligible stuff said condescendingly. -- Radia Perlman. From pawal@blipp.com Tue Mar 13 15:17:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E30FD21E802B for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:17:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8Mbwt-eFDBeV for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vic20.blipp.com (cl-682.sto-01.se.sixxs.net [IPv6:2001:16d8:ff00:2a9::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CA7021E8024 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.142] (fh218n1-asp-a13.ias.bredband.telia.com [212.181.174.218]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by vic20.blipp.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B6A4B38063; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:17:23 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Patrik Wallstrom In-Reply-To: <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:17:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:17:34 -0000 On Mar 13, 2012, at 9:38 PM, Andy Newton wrote: > On Mar 13, 2012, at 1:16 PM, Frederico A C Neves wrote: >=20 >> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:54:04AM -0600, Edward Lewis wrote: >>> I see a beginning debate over the use of XML. >>=20 >> I'll add another one, the need to deploy clients. This is well >> addressed by the current proposition. >=20 > These could possibly be intertwined. IRIS certainly makes copious use = of XML. Not that an XML representation is a bad thing, but the starting = assumption that we need validation, namespaces, etc=85 is. No, we don't = need them. And most REST services use JSON and seem to get along just = fine without those things. Isn't this because most JSON based RESTful services only is provided by = only one service or implementation? If you don't have the need to = standardize or to be interoperable, JSON is probably wonderful. On the = standardization side we have Atom which is XML, although I don't pretend = to have a complete overview of HTTP based APIs out there. On the downside of XML I think most "PHP based" implementors give up = when we present them with things like namespaces - extended namespaces!, = XML Schema and XPath. Add BEEP on top of that, I think that is where any = junior developer gives up. So to avoid the pitfalls of XML I'd vote we skip any namespace = extensions and instead use the RESTful names for things like extensions. = Need a new version of a weirds based protocol? Add a new path in the = URL. Just to summarize, if the choice is XML, go for the simplest possible = representation of the data just as we would for any JSON based API. From AMaitland@Commerco.Com Tue Mar 13 15:47:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70E1D21E8033 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:47:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CFcnThqf+cEA for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:47:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MS1.MailSys.Net (MS1.MailSys.Net [66.135.47.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6D6C21F85D5 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:47:16 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=mailsys; d=Commerco.Com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-fromip:x-fromcountry; b=unrHQft9ViK/yDsIFhlQTfs7Nf9HSHQ0qCfbq/bJ5wI+Mwr72wggp72YcP+HEtOoEgJj11vzs22zImEuV/6XzeTiKT5Qs1V9KglzaYmSoFv6asxnZvZ62VxIpneV74UqYnzTfGnO7U11iwOABTzs+AT69Q7LyP5U57mItOlUtyA= Received: from [71.216.84.59] by MS1.MailSys.Net (ArGoSoft Mail Server .NET v.1.0.8.3) with ESMTP (EHLO [10.240.241.49]) for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:47:13 +0000 Message-ID: <4F5FCE6B.6080202@Commerco.Com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:47:07 -0600 From: Alan Maitland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-FromIP: 71.216.84.59 X-FromCountry: US Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:47:17 -0000 On 3/12/2012 10:02 PM, Steve Sheng wrote: > Dear IETF colleagues, > > A few of us from ICANN, ISC and CNNIC worked together and revised the > earlier domain draft. In this draft, we tried to follow the RIR query > pattern as much as possible, and have also added considerations for > querying IDNs and displaying internationalized registration data, since > this is a major concern for domain registries. > > Here is the URL of the draft: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 > > > We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral > outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there more > domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this? > > > Kind regards, > Steve > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" > Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:06:50 -0700 > To: Francisco Arias > Cc: Steve Sheng, "nkong@cnnic.cn" > , "fobispo@isc.org" > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt > >> A new version of I-D, draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt has been >> successfully submitted by Francisco Arias and posted to the IETF >> repository. >> >> Filename: draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd >> Revision: 01 >> Title: A RESTful Web Service for Domain Name Registration Data >> (RWS-DNRD) >> Creation date: 2012-03-12 >> WG ID: Individual Submission >> Number of pages: 22 >> >> Abstract: >> This document specifies a RESTful Web Service for querying Domain >> Name Registration Data (WHOIS data). >> >> The purpose of this document is to facilitate discussion and serve as >> input into a standards process in this area, currently being >> discussed on the Worthwhile Extensible Internet Registry Data Service >> (WEIRDS) mailing list (https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds). >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > I am willing to work with the group in any way I can as regards feedback for the draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01. Though like another poster to this list I am not a member of a Registry, I can offer some inputs from an implementer / administrative consumer's perspective. Alan Maitland From wil@cloudregistry.net Tue Mar 13 16:53:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C21021E8077 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:53:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iCvyz--ZULeG for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 957C321E8013 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so1699030iaz.31 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:53:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=cK/6d4NCxtCrMWIxJvd5Rf8lSI280Uo5lUU8DUEEgGo=; b=kL3v+yt2jhr2e562xa/pvVMDHIsyXblImzsiceTKJ+F0yO9Qt9bCN10uVX+xKLPVZJ Wmhaow7BbZZjO+V8sAsle13t+rf5FyWHxApBC6JxPdl2cwBTdkuygxoMjbbDo/vpOWXR LyiYMdl+uQHHNLDOTdFWjerDH2Y86/YlPsuGPjSwWOihGLZB+QuiTEZrX/E2wHJtwIuy X9ixgRLAJOyR1uVv90AC69S7v5faI+qXsu0elYZhSRwde7EgoeAlnuH/kdZvQDBmt/RX KpjRBD6Q17w7+9NfLTxZcNyYkG6NodJ9DgmpJkNU4faehcd0wv+R4foKURN5iHXP1hT1 6yJw== Received: by 10.42.146.132 with SMTP id j4mr641163icv.19.1331682806282; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:53:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.92.74 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:52:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Wil Tan Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:52:46 +1100 Message-ID: To: Steve Sheng Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e81e09f37a904bb289077 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnRPHmNCo7ChSorE5Ztv2Q7TFprlW0J4G6MJzytng0NHPkcasswvSa3qxiIgpsy2VdN/HUD Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 23:53:33 -0000 --90e6ba6e81e09f37a904bb289077 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Steve Sheng wrote: > > We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral > outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there more > domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this? > > I'm employed by Cloud Registry. We support the efforts and are willing to contribute towards the cause, be it document drafting, review or prototyping and interoperability tests. -- Wil Tan CTO Cloud Registry --90e6ba6e81e09f37a904bb289077 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org> wrot= e:

=C2=A0We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies servera= l
outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there more domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this?


I'm employed by Cloud Registry. We= support the efforts and are willing to contribute towards the cause, be it= document drafting, review or prototyping and interoperability tests.
=C2=A0
--
Wil Tan
CTO
Cloud Registry <http://www.cloudregistry.net> --90e6ba6e81e09f37a904bb289077-- From wil@cloudregistry.net Tue Mar 13 17:33:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFD2121F84EB for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:33:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id re064YN5X-Mk for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D66A21F84EA for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so1746224iaz.31 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:33:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=koXpGh+mbzKL03d10+d5+A1aFjhkAP3koDApH+7cR6M=; b=J6VGJZpkOB2L/Tp+JNqX2H8gq3bUDjxP3G5iwFTwaeqDlJXl63nDCd0XetMrAc+JeK re5TTtgGFNvXyrwZ+youPEUAsURsHBs9x5zz/X6eDjsy/ehA5fKbxvuWoy9fRHkLYqH6 fkkEJwSABcHqyhFt36UgtFf/vDnT3Vaxt0zLKPhAz7DaMLmVmfeUeHa3aXAteBjZhJks BZBhIVk/LfC98Mg8f0jTBBf+Gfa1LUcTA9KKuyvRMkAstXy+xrRXMRw9lUN+UwqhlEqk jLe2rTEaX/TMdkO23+mfcqEObmWrJLXYBY+lovvV7DKMWwZf4pzpQnilueL2OF3VeOql GCzA== Received: by 10.50.89.229 with SMTP id br5mr973103igb.19.1331685204006; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:33:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.92.74 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:32:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Wil Tan Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:32:43 +1100 Message-ID: To: "weirds@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f2343cb89968b04bb291fc7 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnoa1Fc6jHdA44AzvsOSX8pwJ3H/ShiS8gzSexUcdqyqGq8BZ6aMy8hXlaQYxGhCEnXkhUb Subject: [weirds] Edits/Comments on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 00:33:25 -0000 --e89a8f2343cb89968b04bb291fc7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Steve, Francisco's and Ning, On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Wil Tan wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Steve Sheng > wrote: > >> >> We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral >> outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there more >> domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this? >> >> > I'm employed by Cloud Registry. We support the efforts and are willing to > contribute towards the cause, be it document drafting, review or > prototyping and interoperability tests. > > Thank you for your great efforts. I have gone through the draft and made some edits, and left some comments, included here in a diff-like format (for my convenience, apologies if it's a little hard to read): @@ -124,9 +124,9 @@ 1.1. Domain Name Registration Data Domain Name Registration Data is the information that a registrant - provides when s/he acquires or is assigned a domain name. Many + provides when applying for or registering a domain name. Many domain registries and registrars ([RFC3707]) provide public access to - some of these data via the WHOIS protocol ([RFC3912]) or a web + a subset of the data via the WHOIS protocol ([RFC3912]) or a web interface. For example, for interactions between ICANN Accredited Generic Top Level Domain (gTLD) registrars and registrants, the data elements are specified in the current Registrar Accreditation @@ -153,9 +153,9 @@ defined aspects: 1) The "verbs" of the service are strictly those defined by the HTTP methods HEAD, GET, PUT, POST, and DELETE, 2) The "verbs" are used to act upon resources, and 3) resources are - addressable using URLs + addressable using URIs. - Whois services, in general, are read-only services. Therefore URL + Whois services, in general, are read-only services. Therefore URI patterns [RFC3986] presented here are only applicable to the HTTP [RFC2616] GET and HEAD methods. @@ -206,7 +206,7 @@ The server accepts standard HTTP "GET" requests for the resources it serves. The client sends its request with the following URI - structure. The URI structure start with a base URL specified by each + structure. The URI structure starts with a base URL specified by each domain registry or any other service provider offering this service. The base URL will be appended with resource type specific path segments. The base URL may contain its own path segments (e.g. @@ -238,7 +238,7 @@ 3.1. Domain Queries for information about domain names are of the form /domain/ - example.tld/... where the path segment following 'domain' is an + example.tld/... where the path segment following 'domain' is a domain name, in this case example.tld. Path segments following the domain name can target specific information associated with the domain name in the following way: @@ -325,6 +325,9 @@ hostname [RFC1123], IPv4 [RFC0791] or IPv6 [RFC5952] address of the hostname. +>>> This is overloading the "XXX" slot with different semantics. It'd be +>>> good to use it just as a hostname, leaving IPv4/6 addresses as queries. + Here are some example queries: base URL: http://whois.tld/somepath @@ -355,27 +358,43 @@ /registrar/"Network Solutions, LLC"/ - query the registrar names "Network Solutions. LLC" +>>> As with my comments in 3.3 above, this should be: +>>> /registrar/?name=Network%20Solutions,%20LLC + /registrar/123/ - queries the registrar whose ID is 123. 3.5. Signaling Response Formats The default response format for the RWS-RDNRD server is XML. However, additional formats such as JSON, HTML or plain text can be - provided. The client signals the preferred format using the standard - HTTP "Accept:" header. For example, if the client wishes to receive - JSON [RFC4627] response, it SHOULD put the "application/json" MIME + provided. The client signals the preferred format using standard + HTTP Content Negotiation [RFC2616] mechanisms. In particular, the + HTTP "Accept:" header MAY be to indicate content type (format) preferences. + For example, if the client wishes to receive + JSON [RFC4627] response, it SHOULD specify the "application/json" MIME type in the Accept header. Servers SHOULD respond with JSON responses when this MIME type is present in the Accept header in accordance with the preference rules for the Accept header in HTTP [RFC2616]. However the use of multiple MIME types in the Accept header is not supported. +>>> Why is it not supported? The server should be able to process +>>> multiple MIME types in the Accept header by following standard +>>> HTTP "q" (quality) parameter behaviour. + Possible response formats and their signaling methods include: XML (default) - application/xml JSON - application/json + YAML - text/x-yaml or text/yaml + +>>> I can't seem to find an officially assigned media type for YAML +>>> but would contend that it is highly useful to have this as a +>>> very very human-readable yet machine parsable format. +>>> Try "whois -h whois.gandi.net gandi.net" to see what I mean. + HTML - text/html plain text - text/plain -- Wil Tan CTO Cloud Registry --e89a8f2343cb89968b04bb291fc7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Steve, Francisco's and Ning,

On W= ed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Wil Tan=C2=A0<wil@cloudregistry.net>=C2=A0wr= ote:
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Steve Sheng=C2=A0<s= teve.sheng@icann.org>=C2=A0wrote:

=C2=A0We we= lcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral
outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there moredomain registries willing to build on this and work together on this?
=

I'm employed by Cloud Regist= ry. We support the efforts and are willing to contribute towards the cause,= be it document drafting, review or prototyping and interoperability tests.=

=C2=A0
Thank y= ou for your great efforts.

I have gone through the= draft and made some edits, and left some comments, included here in a diff= -like format (for my convenience, apologies if it's a little hard to re= ad):

@@ -124,9 +124,9 @@
=C2=A01.1. =C2= =A0Domain Name Registration Data
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 D= omain Name Registration Data is the information that a registrant
- =C2=A0 provides when s/he acquires or is assigned a domain name. =C2=A0M= any
+ =C2=A0 provides when applying for or registering a domain name. =C2= =A0Many
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 domain registries and registrars ([RFC3707]= ) provide public access to
- =C2=A0 some of these data via the WH= OIS protocol ([RFC3912]) or a web
+ =C2=A0 a subset of the data via the WHOIS protocol ([RFC3912]) or a = web
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 interface. =C2=A0For example, for interactions = between ICANN Accredited
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Generic Top Level Domain (= gTLD) registrars and registrants, the data
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 elements are specified in the current Registrar Accredit= ation


@@ -153,9 +153,9 @@
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 defined aspects: 1) The "verbs" of the service are= strictly those
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 defined by the HTTP methods HEAD, GET, PUT, POST, and DE= LETE, 2) The
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "verbs" are used to act upon= resources, and 3) resources are
- =C2=A0 addressable using URLs<= /div>
+ =C2=A0 addressable using URIs.
=C2=A0
- =C2=A0 Whois services, in general, are read-only se= rvices. =C2=A0Therefore URL
+ =C2=A0 Whois services, in general, = are read-only services. =C2=A0Therefore URI
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 pattern= s [RFC3986] presented here are only applicable to the HTTP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [RFC2616] GET and HEAD methods.
=C2=A0

@@ -206,7 +206,7 @@
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 The server accepts standard HTTP "GET" requests for the resou= rces it
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 serves. =C2=A0The client sends its request = with the following URI
- =C2=A0 structure. =C2=A0The URI structure start with a base URL spec= ified by each
+ =C2=A0 structure. =C2=A0The URI structure starts = with a base URL specified by each
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 domain registry o= r any other service provider offering this service.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The base URL will be appended with resource type specifi= c path
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 segments. =C2=A0The base URL may contain its= own path segments (e.g.

@@ -238,7 +238,7 @@
=
=C2=A03.1. =C2=A0Domain
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Queries for information about domain na= mes are of the form /domain/
- =C2=A0 example.tld/... where the p= ath segment following 'domain' is an
+ =C2=A0 example.tld= /... where the path segment following 'domain' is a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 domain name, in this case example.tld. =C2=A0Path segmen= ts following the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 domain name can target specific in= formation associated with the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 domain name in the fo= llowing way:

@@ -325,6 +325,9 @@
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 hostname [RFC1123], IPv4 [= RFC0791] or IPv6 [RFC5952] address of the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 hostname.=
=C2=A0
+>>> This is overloading the "XXX= " slot with different semantics. It'd be
+>>> good to use it just as a hostname, leaving IPv4/6 addres= ses as queries.
+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Here are some example q= ueries:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 base URL: http://whois.tld/somepath

@@ -355,27 +358,43 @@
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0/registrar/"Network Solutions, LLC"/ - query the registrar = names
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Network Solutions. =C2=A0L= LC"
=C2=A0
+>>> As with my comments in 3.= 3 above, this should be:
+>>> =C2=A0 /registrar/?name=3DNetwork%20Solutions,%20LLC
+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/registrar/123/ - queries the= registrar whose ID is 123.
=C2=A0
=C2=A03.5. =C2=A0Sig= naling Response Formats
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The default response format for the RWS-RDNRD server is = XML.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 However, additional formats such as JSON, HTML= or plain text can be
- =C2=A0 provided. =C2=A0The client signals= the preferred format using the standard
- =C2=A0 HTTP "Accept:" header. =C2=A0For example, if the cl= ient wishes to receive
- =C2=A0 JSON [RFC4627] response, it SHOUL= D put the "application/json" MIME
+ =C2=A0 provided. = =C2=A0The client signals the preferred format using standard
+ =C2=A0 HTTP Content Negotiation [RFC2616] mechanisms. In particular,= the
+ =C2=A0 HTTP "Accept:" header MAY be to indicate = content type (format) preferences.
+ =C2=A0 For example, if the c= lient wishes to receive
+ =C2=A0 JSON [RFC4627] response, it SHOULD specify the "applicat= ion/json" MIME
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 type in the Accept header. =C2= =A0Servers SHOULD respond with JSON
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 responses when = this MIME type is present in the Accept header in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 accordance with the preference rules for the Accept head= er in HTTP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [RFC2616]. =C2=A0However the use of mult= iple MIME types in the Accept
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 header is not support= ed.
=C2=A0
+>>> Why is it not supported? The s= erver should be able to process
+>>> multiple MIME types in the Accept header by following st= andard
+>>> HTTP "q" (quality) parameter behav= iour.
+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Possible response formats and the= ir signaling methods include:
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0XML (default) - applicatio= n/xml
=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0JSON - applicat= ion/json
=C2=A0
+ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0YAML - text/x-yam= l or text/yaml
+
+>>> I can't seem to find= an officially assigned media type for YAML
+>>> but would contend that it is highly useful to have this = as a
+>>> very very human-readable yet machine parsable = format.
+>>> Try "whois -h whois.gandi.net gandi.net&q= uot; to see what I mean.
+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0HTML - text/html
=C2= =A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0plain text - text/plain


--
Wil Tan
CTO
Cloud Registry= <http://www.cloudregistry.net<= /a>>
--e89a8f2343cb89968b04bb291fc7-- From andy@hxr.us Tue Mar 13 17:45:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB8021E800F for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:45:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3qapgbhJ721b for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f172.google.com (mail-gx0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 142A211E8073 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ggmi1 with SMTP id i1so1406048ggm.31 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:45:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=Z1XR9Y5cLS4t3LHiT+ElP/p42T56srsk8Eo1Y7wox5M=; b=c+cg++/LkQV1iWnZUNHqW8Y39EHw6fmCY5EJ4FZ8dCkH7GwgWkBfIB9d2anGvQ80RC Zfgqri7utfcvsIywBpXHPDiJHaIWZCEPP7gATE5KkWbh2f1te+quM+l9D6IuIVCzorwI PonlpcCStd1dPvFbcZhIA7qfQf9BFHtJoiCQ69tOEnH7q4VLjGkNrcDT+0Jj1qquFb1I OQrHBGGrrHv/utNkTogR+RlLyWfjKghZpFx0kftN9QAro3s3YwoGswEjAqNCMZbVpguu y91ElbCHIYay2yzJ4pleE3pTBjx+2AX8c351sAdMlr9TghdB0IWYLWF/pXsJ/TpVZjUL Lmzw== Received: by 10.182.1.4 with SMTP id 4mr549706obi.67.1331685955575; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (ip68-98-152-27.dc.dc.cox.net. [68.98.152.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c7sm2577417oeh.1.2012.03.13.17.45.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:45:53 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <98C51EAE-DE4C-46D8-B396-B3AFC0C754FB@hxr.us> References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> To: Patrik Wallstrom X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnOiVS3g7Dq4QmCtQm9KU3mOUrbAq0Feipnmso3Mdk0eietOh6lqFSz7SbpD+15+0StiMEI Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: [weirds] XML vs JSON (was Re: Why did IRIS fail?) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 00:45:57 -0000 On Mar 13, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Patrik Wallstrom wrote: > Isn't this because most JSON based RESTful services only is provided = by only one service or implementation? If you don't have the need to = standardize or to be interoperable, JSON is probably wonderful. There are JSON based standards. The IETF's ALTO working group has one. = And the J in the JOSE working group stands for JSON. They are redoing = CMS type work previously done in ASN.1. Certainly our problem isn't as = thorny as theirs. > On the downside of XML I think most "PHP based" implementors give up = when we present them with things like namespaces - extended namespaces!, = XML Schema and XPath. Add BEEP on top of that, I think that is where any = junior developer gives up. It's not just PHP programmers. It's really most programmers. While they = may understand plain and simple XML, most don't understand XML = namespaces or schemas. And it isn't because they are stupid or we are = super smart. It's because they simply don't run across it that much. And = when it comes to experience with REST systems, more have used JSON than = have used XML. Another reason programmers prefer JSON over XML tends to be the APIs. = The XML apis tend to be more complex because XML is more complex. JSON = on the other hand, is almost always represented as simple arrays and = hashes. Just take a look at the difference in PHP: http://us2.php.net/manual/en/ref.domxml.php http://us.php.net/manual/en/ref.json.php > So to avoid the pitfalls of XML I'd vote we skip any namespace = extensions and instead use the RESTful names for things like extensions. = Need a new version of a weirds based protocol? Add a new path in the = URL. Yup. That is the idea of the RIR drafts. Also one of the changes made to the latest revision of the RIR JSON = draft is to restrict JSON names to be compatible with XML tags for the = possibility of having a straightforward mapping of a JSON representation = to XML. There's nothing wrong with a simple XML representation, and if = JSON is used as the basis then it will stay simple. -andy From hsalgado@nic.cl Tue Mar 13 17:49:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C635521E800F for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:49:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tkNtJelPYIvG for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cl (mail.nic.cl [200.1.123.8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F192911E8073 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cl (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA5FCC8228 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:49:17 -0300 (CLST) Received: from [172.30.14.17] (hsalgado-vpn.intra.nic.cl [172.30.14.17]) by mail.nic.cl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A807CC81E4 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:49:17 -0300 (CLST) Message-ID: <4F5FEB0C.9000207@nic.cl> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:49:16 -0300 From: Hugo Salgado User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP on Tue Mar 13 21:49:17 2012 -0300 (CLST) Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 00:49:19 -0000 On 03/13/2012 01:02 AM, Steve Sheng wrote: > > We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral > outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there more I think it'll be better to replace the ".tld" suffix in the examples with the RFC2606 compliant ".example", the reserved tld for documentation. Regards, Hugo Salgado NIC Chile - .CL From fobispo@isc.org Tue Mar 13 18:15:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FC8021E8014 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:15:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6HgYWbRhmpEB for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D5B21E8013 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 183B8C9427; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 01:15:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:c4d1:13f8:ed4c:c3b0] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:c4d1:13f8:ed4c:c3b0]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0D771216C31; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 01:15:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <98C51EAE-DE4C-46D8-B396-B3AFC0C754FB@hxr.us> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:15:25 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4834754D-4FD8-4695-A470-C66BDEFED04A@isc.org> References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> <98C51EAE-DE4C-46D8-B396-B3AFC0C754FB@hxr.us> To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] XML vs JSON (was Re: Why did IRIS fail?) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 01:15:41 -0000 It just feels like we've had this discussion before ;-) JSON is great when you have control of both the sender and receiver. In = care of ALTO, there is a limited number of components interacting with = each other, so JSON is a great solution. Most programmers just fear XML, it is very unfortunate that there are = just so many sub topics associated to it, that makes it very difficult = to learn, but those who understand it very well, get to use its full = power. Like I said in my previous email, validation is just usually 1 line of = code, validating JSON data at this point, involves processing the = received data structure, which is indeed more complex than doing the = same with XML. XML is more suitable for data exchanges between unknown parties, it = offers a language and tools to define/validate its data structures, and = wide support not only in existing browsers, but in almost any computer = language out there. Francisco On Mar 13, 2012, at 5:45 PM, Andy Newton wrote: >=20 > On Mar 13, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Patrik Wallstrom wrote: >=20 >> Isn't this because most JSON based RESTful services only is provided = by only one service or implementation? If you don't have the need to = standardize or to be interoperable, JSON is probably wonderful. >=20 > There are JSON based standards. The IETF's ALTO working group has one. = And the J in the JOSE working group stands for JSON. They are redoing = CMS type work previously done in ASN.1. Certainly our problem isn't as = thorny as theirs. >=20 >> On the downside of XML I think most "PHP based" implementors give up = when we present them with things like namespaces - extended namespaces!, = XML Schema and XPath. Add BEEP on top of that, I think that is where any = junior developer gives up. >=20 > It's not just PHP programmers. It's really most programmers. While = they may understand plain and simple XML, most don't understand XML = namespaces or schemas. And it isn't because they are stupid or we are = super smart. It's because they simply don't run across it that much. And = when it comes to experience with REST systems, more have used JSON than = have used XML. >=20 > Another reason programmers prefer JSON over XML tends to be the APIs. = The XML apis tend to be more complex because XML is more complex. JSON = on the other hand, is almost always represented as simple arrays and = hashes. Just take a look at the difference in PHP: > http://us2.php.net/manual/en/ref.domxml.php > http://us.php.net/manual/en/ref.json.php >=20 >> So to avoid the pitfalls of XML I'd vote we skip any namespace = extensions and instead use the RESTful names for things like extensions. = Need a new version of a weirds based protocol? Add a new path in the = URL. >=20 > Yup. That is the idea of the RIR drafts. >=20 > Also one of the changes made to the latest revision of the RIR JSON = draft is to restrict JSON names to be compatible with XML tags for the = possibility of having a straightforward mapping of a JSON representation = to XML. There's nothing wrong with a simple XML representation, and if = JSON is used as the basis then it will stay simple. >=20 > -andy >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From andy@hxr.us Tue Mar 13 19:04:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B6421F8525 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 19:04:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2rdN3mdgPCl for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 19:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E8D21F8516 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 19:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhpp34 with SMTP id p34so1466750yhp.31 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 19:04:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=N0BXdZB8MjFOczXuzjy5lVTKLTbIhwwszHcH6xS+CY8=; b=OiA0PVEJbItUazVv1r5M/7UM4Auz1Q+aj80ZBWINgVyeB/4mpNlYl7MALY7lZNNwdc krsxbfhm5zbjmEitjNKJt6bDyT/FuDmk60bVRxwHcWGvcpTlm0fZSXhyJGcuIFa/XrNU O9+zwRj3gFVhKehbdxbLviE9DQYZbHhJ37gCEz86JEGZ0d4pdG4OMpGNPbeeYxa43AFN FyY/bHgWc44jZQM+5rl7hdrr1+zJ6xJ+DgCdrWHpBlDXiGf9OaMvwKUxoARuNOyVcKhI ymJIlyaUUAvSYWxdQCoR7rTdXjkEP03u68OgTIrohy3qIbifssJ0aeiGcLJGEmeLzNRg /K4Q== Received: by 10.182.114.70 with SMTP id je6mr933694obb.30.1331690697059; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 19:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (ip68-98-152-27.dc.dc.cox.net. [68.98.152.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id xh3sm3516499obb.13.2012.03.13.19.04.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 13 Mar 2012 19:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <4834754D-4FD8-4695-A470-C66BDEFED04A@isc.org> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:04:55 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2194D600-7175-4A65-8120-CD7C1BD292C2@hxr.us> References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> <98C51EAE-DE4C-46D8-B396-B3AFC0C754FB@hxr.us> <4834754D-4FD8-4695-A470-C66BDEFED04A@isc.org> To: Francisco Obispo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkxdjNN3ACuqHh1UpfOoZ8OZAsGJm8fxJpud4YEquhwxDYzq2JpNcUDq1H1/UW3YryYGxYE Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] XML vs JSON (was Re: Why did IRIS fail?) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 02:04:58 -0000 On Mar 13, 2012, at 9:15 PM, Francisco Obispo wrote: > Most programmers just fear XML, it is very unfortunate that there are = just so many sub topics associated to it, that makes it very difficult = to learn, but those who understand it very well, get to use its full = power. There's a t-shirt for that too: = http://www.zazzle.com/the_beatings_will_continue_until_morale_improves_tsh= irt-235894388228818297 -andy= From steve.sheng@icann.org Tue Mar 13 22:29:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B1B21F84EE for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:29:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HRipAeOrsZIB for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05EB21F84E6 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:29:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:29:11 -0700 From: Steve Sheng To: Wil Tan , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 22:29:11 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Edits/Comments on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 Thread-Index: Ac0Bo2NnF2LNGhhnRHq7YsrtTsEm9w== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CB857DF312EF0steveshengicannorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Edits/Comments on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 05:29:14 -0000 --_000_CB857DF312EF0steveshengicannorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wil, thanks very much for the input, see inlined responses, basically I = agree with the vast majority of your edits, I have a few questions, and cl= arification from you would be very helpful. : From: Wil Tan > Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:32:43 -0700 To: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: [weirds] Edits/Comments on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 Hi Steve, Francisco's and Ning, On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Wil Tan > wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Steve Sheng > wrote: We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there more domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this? I'm employed by Cloud Registry. We support the efforts and are willing to c= ontribute towards the cause, be it document drafting, review or prototyping= and interoperability tests. Thank you for your great efforts. I have gone through the draft and made some edits, and left some comments, = included here in a diff-like format (for my convenience, apologies if it's = a little hard to read): @@ -124,9 +124,9 @@ 1.1. Domain Name Registration Data Domain Name Registration Data is the information that a registrant - provides when s/he acquires or is assigned a domain name. Many + provides when applying for or registering a domain name. Many domain registries and registrars ([RFC3707]) provide public access to - some of these data via the WHOIS protocol ([RFC3912]) or a web + a subset of the data via the WHOIS protocol ([RFC3912]) or a web interface. For example, for interactions between ICANN Accredited Generic Top Level Domain (gTLD) registrars and registrants, the data elements are specified in the current Registrar Accreditation >> k, updated the draft. @@ -153,9 +153,9 @@ defined aspects: 1) The "verbs" of the service are strictly those defined by the HTTP methods HEAD, GET, PUT, POST, and DELETE, 2) The "verbs" are used to act upon resources, and 3) resources are - addressable using URLs + addressable using URIs. >> k, updated the draft. - Whois services, in general, are read-only services. Therefore URL + Whois services, in general, are read-only services. Therefore URI patterns [RFC3986] presented here are only applicable to the HTTP [RFC2616] GET and HEAD methods. >> k, updated the draft. @@ -206,7 +206,7 @@ The server accepts standard HTTP "GET" requests for the resources it serves. The client sends its request with the following URI - structure. The URI structure start with a base URL specified by each + structure. The URI structure starts with a base URL specified by each domain registry or any other service provider offering this service. The base URL will be appended with resource type specific path segments. The base URL may contain its own path segments (e.g. >> , updated the draft. @@ -238,7 +238,7 @@ 3.1. Domain Queries for information about domain names are of the form /domain/ - example.tld/... where the path segment following 'domain' is an + example.tld/... where the path segment following 'domain' is a domain name, in this case example.tld. Path segments following the domain name can target specific information associated with the domain name in the following way: >>k, updated the draft. @@ -325,6 +325,9 @@ hostname [RFC1123], IPv4 [RFC0791] or IPv6 [RFC5952] address of the hostname. +>>> This is overloading the "XXX" slot with different semantics. It'd be +>>> good to use it just as a hostname, leaving IPv4/6 addresses as queries= . + Here are some example queries: base URL: http://whois.tld/somepath @@ -355,27 +358,43 @@ /registrar/"Network Solutions, LLC"/ - query the registrar names "Network Solutions. LLC" +>>> As with my comments in 3.3 above, this should be: +>>> /registrar/?name=3DNetwork%20Solutions,%20LLC + /registrar/123/ - queries the registrar whose ID is 123. >> not sure I understand, could you provide more examples? 3.5. Signaling Response Formats The default response format for the RWS-RDNRD server is XML. However, additional formats such as JSON, HTML or plain text can be - provided. The client signals the preferred format using the standard - HTTP "Accept:" header. For example, if the client wishes to receive - JSON [RFC4627] response, it SHOULD put the "application/json" MIME + provided. The client signals the preferred format using standard + HTTP Content Negotiation [RFC2616] mechanisms. In particular, the + HTTP "Accept:" header MAY be to indicate content type (format) preferen= ces. + For example, if the client wishes to receive + JSON [RFC4627] response, it SHOULD specify the "application/json" MIME type in the Accept header. Servers SHOULD respond with JSON responses when this MIME type is present in the Accept header in accordance with the preference rules for the Accept header in HTTP [RFC2616]. However the use of multiple MIME types in the Accept header is not supported. >> ok, updated the draft. +>>> Why is it not supported? The server should be able to process +>>> multiple MIME types in the Accept header by following standard +>>> HTTP "q" (quality) parameter behaviour. + >> ok, I will look into this further. Possible response formats and their signaling methods include: XML (default) - application/xml JSON - application/json + YAML - text/x-yaml or text/yaml + +>>> I can't seem to find an officially assigned media type for YAML +>>> but would contend that it is highly useful to have this as a +>>> very very human-readable yet machine parsable format. +>>> Try "whois -h whois.gandi.net gandi.net" to see what I mean. + >> ok, I checked this WHOIS output, it does not seem very human readable to= me. What do others think about adding YAML? HTML - text/html plain text - text/plain -- Wil Tan CTO Cloud Registry --_000_CB857DF312EF0steveshengicannorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Wil, thanks very much= for the input, see inlined responses, basically I agree with the vast majo= rity of your edits, I have a few questions, and  clarification from yo= u would be very helpful. : 

From: Wil Tan <wil@cloudregistry.net>
D= ate: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:32:43 -0700
To: "weirds@ietf.org" = <weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: [weirds] Edits/Comments on draft-s= heng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01

Hi Steve, Francisco's= and Ning,

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:52= AM, Wil Tan <wil@cloudregistry.net> wrote:
On Tue, Mar 13= , 2012 at 3:02 PM, Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org> wrote:

 We welcome= feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral
outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there moredomain registries willing to build on this and work together on this?
=

I'm employed by Cloud Registry. = We support the efforts and are willing to contribute towards the cause, be = it document drafting, review or prototyping and interoperability tests.

 
Thank= you for your great efforts.

I have gone through t= he draft and made some edits, and left some comments, included here in a di= ff-like format (for my convenience, apologies if it's a little hard to read= ):

@@ -124,9 +124,9 @@
 1.= 1.  Domain Name Registration Data
 
  &n= bsp; Domain Name Registration Data is the information that a registrant
-   provides when s/he acquires or is assigned a domain name. &= nbsp;Many
+   provides when applying for or registering a do= main name.  Many
    domain registries and registr= ars ([RFC3707]) provide public access to
-   some of these d= ata via the WHOIS protocol ([RFC3912]) or a web
+   a subset= of the data via the WHOIS protocol ([RFC3912]) or a web
  &= nbsp; interface.  For example, for interactions between ICANN Accredit= ed
    Generic Top Level Domain (gTLD) registrars and r= egistrants, the data
    elements are specified in the = current Registrar Accreditation

>&= gt; k, updated the draft. 

@@ -153,9 +153,9 @@
    defined as= pects: 1) The "verbs" of the service are strictly those
  &n= bsp; defined by the HTTP methods HEAD, GET, PUT, POST, and DELETE, 2) The
    "verbs" are used to act upon resources, and 3) resou= rces are
-   addressable using URLs
+   addre= ssable using URIs.
 
>> k, upda= ted the draft. 

=
-   Whois services, in general, are read-only services. &nbs= p;Therefore URL
+   Whois services, in general, are read-onl= y services.  Therefore URI
    patterns [RFC3986] = presented here are only applicable to the HTTP
    [RFC= 2616] GET and HEAD methods.
 
>>= ; k, updated the draft.  
=

@@ -206,7 +206,7 @@
 
  &= nbsp; The server accepts standard HTTP "GET" requests for the resources it<= /div>
    serves.  The client sends its request with the= following URI
-   structure.  The URI structure start = with a base URL specified by each
+  structure.  The UR= I structure starts with a base URL specified by each
   = ; domain registry or any other service provider offering this service.
    The base URL will be appended with resource type specif= ic path
    segments.  The base URL may contain it= s own path segments (e.g.

>> , = updated the draft. 


@@ -238,7 +238,7 @@
 3.1.  = ;Domain
 
    Queries for information ab= out domain names are of the form /domain/
-   example.tld/..= . where the path segment following 'domain' is an
+  example= .tld/... where the path segment following 'domain' is a
  &n= bsp; domain name, in this case example.tld.  Path segments following t= he
    domain name can target specific information asso= ciated with the
    domain name in the following way:

>>k, updated the draft.  

@@ -325,6 +3= 25,9 @@
    hostname [RFC1123], IPv4 [RFC0791] or IPv6 = [RFC5952] address of the
    hostname.
 =
+>>> This is overloading the "XXX" slot with different = semantics. It'd be
+>>> good to use it just as a hostnam= e, leaving IPv4/6 addresses as queries.
+
   = Here are some example queries:
 
    ba= se URL: http://whois.tld/somepath=

@@ -355,27 +358,43 @@
    &nb= sp;  /registrar/"Network Solutions, LLC"/ - query the registrar names<= /div>
       "Network Solutions.  LLC"
 
+>>> As with my comments in 3.3 above, this sh= ould be:
+>>>   /registrar/?name=3DNetwork%20Soluti= ons,%20LLC
+
       /registrar/123/= - queries the registrar whose ID is 123.
 

>> not sure I understand, could you provide mor= e examples?

 3.5.  Signaling Response Formats
 
&nb= sp;   The default response format for the RWS-RDNRD server is XML.
    However, additional formats such as JSON, HTML or plai= n text can be
-   provided.  The client signals the pre= ferred format using the standard
-   HTTP "Accept:" header. =  For example, if the client wishes to receive
-   JSON = [RFC4627] response, it SHOULD put the "application/json" MIME
+ &= nbsp; provided.  The client signals the preferred format using standar= d
+   HTTP Content Negotiation [RFC2616] mechanisms. In part= icular, the
+   HTTP "Accept:" header MAY be to indicate con= tent type (format) preferences.
+   For example, if the clie= nt wishes to receive
+   JSON [RFC4627] response, it SHOULD = specify the "application/json" MIME
    type in the Acc= ept header.  Servers SHOULD respond with JSON
    = responses when this MIME type is present in the Accept header in
=     accordance with the preference rules for the Accept header in= HTTP
    [RFC2616].  However the use of multiple = MIME types in the Accept
    header is not supported.

>> ok, updated the draft.  =
 
+>>= ;> Why is it not supported? The server should be able to process
+>>> multiple MIME types in the Accept header by following stan= dard
+>>> HTTP "q" (quality) parameter behaviour.
<= div>+

>> ok, I will look into t= his further. 


    Possible response formats and their si= gnaling methods include:
 
      &n= bsp;XML (default) - application/xml
 
   = ;    JSON - application/json
 
+   =    YAML - text/x-yaml or text/yaml
+
+>>= ;> I can't seem to find an officially assigned media type for YAML
=
+>>> but would contend that it is highly useful to have this = as a
+>>> very very human-readable yet machine parsable = format.
+>>> Try "whois -h whois.gandi.net gandi.net" to se= e what I mean.
+

>> o= k, I checked this WHOIS output, it does not seem very human readable to me.= What do others think about adding YAML? 

      &nb= sp;HTML - text/html
 
       p= lain text - text/plain

--
Wil Tan
CTO=
Cloud Registry <http://www.= cloudregistry.net>
 --_000_CB857DF312EF0steveshengicannorg_-- From wil@cloudregistry.net Wed Mar 14 04:32:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D78321F8707 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:32:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 54xZzSYXURCY for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCCB21F8716 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so1917276ghb.31 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:32:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=JCccvVOX7Og3MIrHho6/TTSMOspJDYCIJ4/n6Iswox8=; b=mZrtIFDKvAgdqJmaxwCnu3vVKZg0OB7ue9Od2SVgbOvgjURWuOsHmPeHwsRhZrzfAc Tj2mBC+UZNJE0CzQZ4Xjv2IHeOsguBEEOyymm//JOT1sqTUeIZKACXPDZ28JBxE5aJ1r tbcBFJX6m74u8SwAwNSpiczODUctGYmMv1mHnU3uIUfpxSKwU4T+lmGsLOD2PeYYPMcx iJdo2y0Pf8eAQTeySGWxfM1X1xyHWrMdb4HmPsombnXI+ezHcZ7uOe9lTDdVuxQsuyOf cY8JCmbb0tdlQDCEuQnkybytxQfNGZhq/IESO0j0195b34vxx8NDVlyllJZRzKkdLp84 bwHQ== Received: by 10.50.89.229 with SMTP id br5mr4019588igb.19.1331724759460; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:32:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.92.74 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:31:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Wil Tan Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 22:31:58 +1100 Message-ID: To: Steve Sheng Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f2343cb39e9da04bb325544 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl1DHZk58JN/XCjkBUTGFxYNDh8YohudZ+alHXm6JPWQyKXLJpRqdaL5H94XX1SZ5IWKdfr Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Edits/Comments on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:32:41 -0000 --e89a8f2343cb39e9da04bb325544 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Steve Sheng wrote: > /registrar/"Network Solutions, LLC"/ - query the registrar names > "Network Solutions. LLC" > > +>>> As with my comments in 3.3 above, this should be: > +>>> /registrar/?name=Network%20Solutions,%20LLC > + > /registrar/123/ - queries the registrar whose ID is 123. > > > >> not sure I understand, could you provide more examples? > > I see /registrar/123/ as the URI to the resource identified by the registrar ID "123", akin to a database lookup. The other form /registrar/"Networks Solutions, LLC"/ seems to carry more of a search semantics to me. This draft is silent about searching or returning multiple matches, but that's exactly what's needed if the lookup doesn't produce an exact match. Do you have any plans to work on specifying the behaviour when multiple matches are found? > + YAML - text/x-yaml or text/yaml > + > +>>> I can't seem to find an officially assigned media type for YAML > +>>> but would contend that it is highly useful to have this as a > +>>> very very human-readable yet machine parsable format. > +>>> Try "whois -h whois.gandi.net gandi.net" to see what I mean. > + > > >> ok, I checked this WHOIS output, it does not seem very human readable > to me. What do others think about adding YAML? > > I think this is probably tangential or at least a detail that we can work out at a later iteration of the draft, or if the representation/format gets split out into a different draft, as others have suggested. The last thing I want to start is another long thread about formats, so I will refrain from commenting. .wil --e89a8f2343cb39e9da04bb325544 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 4:29 PM, Steve Sheng= <steve.sheng= @icann.org> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/registrar/"Network Solutions, = LLC"/ - query the registrar names
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Network Solutions. =C2=A0LLC"
=C2=A0
+>>> As with my comments in 3.3 above, this = should be:
+>>> =C2=A0 /registrar/?name=3DNetwork%20Solu= tions,%20LLC
+
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/registrar/12= 3/ - queries the registrar whose ID is 123.
=C2=A0

>> not sure I under= stand, could you provide more examples?


I see /registrar/123/ as th= e URI to the resource identified by the registrar ID "123", akin = to a database lookup.

The other form /registrar/"Networks Solutions, LLC= "/ seems to carry more of a search semantics to me. This draft is sile= nt about searching or returning multiple matches, but that's exactly wh= at's needed if the lookup doesn't produce an exact match.

Do you have any plans to work on specifying the behavio= ur when multiple matches are found?


=C2=A0
+ =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0YAML - text/x-yaml or text/yaml
+
+>>> I= can't seem to find an officially assigned media type for YAML
+>>> but would contend that it is highly useful to have this = as a
+>>> very very human-readable yet machine parsable = format.
+>>> Try "whois -h whois.gandi.net gandi.net" to see what I mean.
+

>> ok, I checked t= his WHOIS output, it does not seem very human readable to me. What do other= s think about adding YAML?=C2=A0


I think this is probably tangential or at = least a detail that we can work out at a later iteration of the draft, or i= f the representation/format gets split out into a different draft, as other= s have suggested.
The last thing I want to start is another long thread about formats, s= o I will refrain from commenting.

.wil
--e89a8f2343cb39e9da04bb325544-- From vesely@tana.it Wed Mar 14 05:51:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4775721F85BE for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 05:51:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.16 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.16 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.441, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, J_BACKHAIR_34=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TdPGUdtljtZN for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 05:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (mail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7741421F85BD for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 05:51:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1331729471; bh=GXtIYCp1Ezh/5ZcigQxFkMSJuVHbRTl52mLle3i3SBY=; l=1040; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KZlNWaBq9dfZW9VLycUD6TFFkIGDRtGmEUqrh0O0AS5/F9o/W9owM1xx+zjDPqwSo w0pQwuvELDimaWixoL4U4fQBN63uMx0UQNcfjWWzuJ81eCP3dcD1E27PTmV5YY8zjp 9EpcEA+ccXVlGPVYrV6MorPW2FJynMEwm4U35w1E= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 13:51:11 +0100 id 00000000005DC033.000000004F60943F.00000EE7 Message-ID: <4F60943F.7010005@tana.it> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 13:51:11 +0100 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> <98C51EAE-DE4C-46D8-B396-B3AFC0C754FB@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: <98C51EAE-DE4C-46D8-B396-B3AFC0C754FB@hxr.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] XML vs JSON (was Re: Why did IRIS fail?) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:51:13 -0000 On 14/Mar/12 01:45, Andy Newton wrote: > > Also one of the changes made to the latest revision of the RIR JSON > draft is to restrict JSON names to be compatible with XML tags for > the possibility of having a straightforward mapping of a JSON > representation to XML. There's nothing wrong with a simple XML > representation, and if JSON is used as the basis then it will stay > simple. I like the idea of representation mappings. I'd note that both XSLT and JavaScript are Turing-complete, hence equivalent, languages. But our common denominator (should we name it "weirds data representation"?) is bound to be much simpler. An explicit formalization of the straightforward mappings between JSON and XML may be easier than manually writing other documents that describe responses in other formats to the same URL queries. There are lots of XML<->JSON converter scripts: we may pick up one and adapt it to our needs. I mean, to automatically generate the alternative representation(s) in the relevant appendix(es). From steve.sheng@icann.org Wed Mar 14 10:00:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2759621F879C for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:00:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PkR+aTEZE754 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE39021F8799 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:00:52 -0700 From: Steve Sheng To: Wil Tan Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:00:54 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Edits/Comments on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 Thread-Index: Ac0CBAOptljKrHCzS9Guq3Tui6r7fQ== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CB862A4B1306Bsteveshengicannorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Edits/Comments on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:00:54 -0000 --_000_CB862A4B1306Bsteveshengicannorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excellent point, search is not addressed in the current draft. I will add t= his to the list of things to do. Thanks, Steve From: Wil Tan > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:31:58 -0700 To: Steve Sheng > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [weirds] Edits/Comments on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-0= 1 I see /registrar/123/ as the URI to the resource identified by the registra= r ID "123", akin to a database lookup. The other form /registrar/"Networks Solutions, LLC"/ seems to carry more of= a search semantics to me. This draft is silent about searching or returnin= g multiple matches, but that's exactly what's needed if the lookup doesn't = produce an exact match. Do you have any plans to work on specifying the behaviour when multiple mat= ches are found? --_000_CB862A4B1306Bsteveshengicannorg_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Excellent point, search = is not addressed in the current draft. I will add this to the list of thing= s to do. 

Thanks, 
Steve
=

From: Wil Tan = <wil@cloudregistry.net><= br>Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 04:31:58= -0700
To: Steve Sheng <steve.sheng@icann.org>
Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" <weirds@ietf.or= g>
Subject: Re: [weirds]= Edits/Comments on draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01

<= /div>
I see /registrar/123/ as the URI to = the resource identified by the registrar ID "123", akin to a database looku= p.

The other form /registrar/"Networks Solutions, = LLC"/ seems to carry more of a search semantics to me. This draft is silent= about searching or returning multiple matches, but that's exactly what's n= eeded if the lookup doesn't produce an exact match.

Do you have any plans to work on specifying the behaviour when multiple m= atches are found?
 --_000_CB862A4B1306Bsteveshengicannorg_-- From steve.sheng@icann.org Wed Mar 14 10:16:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C326121F8807 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SYvop8u27HRA for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5375121F87B4 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:16:03 -0700 From: Steve Sheng To: Hugo Salgado , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:16:05 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0CBiJrVLmBIR8ZRPKli8WoKAwc8A== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4F5FEB0C.9000207@nic.cl> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:16:03 -0000 Thank you Hugo, changes accepted. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Hugo Salgado Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:49:16 -0700 To: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >On 03/13/2012 01:02 AM, Steve Sheng wrote: >>=20 >> We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral >> outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there >>more > >I think it'll be better to replace the ".tld" suffix in the examples >with the RFC2606 compliant ".example", the reserved tld for >documentation. > >Regards, > >Hugo Salgado >NIC Chile - .CL >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From svanegmond@tinyplanet.ca Wed Mar 14 21:06:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67DE811E80A2 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:06:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nf7xBvs68jlK for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from desiato.tinyplanet.ca (desiato.tinyplanet.ca [204.225.122.212]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0D3611E8093 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 24-212-139-251.cable.teksavvy.com ([24.212.139.251] helo=[192.168.100.3]) by desiato.tinyplanet.ca with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1S81vR-0001Gr-AT; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 00:04:29 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Stephen van Egmond In-Reply-To: <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 00:06:05 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <682879B1-14C5-48D9-AC26-E79CD1702108@tinyplanet.ca> References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> To: Patrik Wallstrom X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 24.212.139.251 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: svanegmond@tinyplanet.ca X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on desiato.tinyplanet.ca) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 04:06:09 -0000 Beyond technical details, are there business reasons anyone is aware of = that may have led IRIS to fail? From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu Mar 15 08:19:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CB0121F85B1 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zqAzYCE4ouHF for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A3321F85A4 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (unknown [199.91.193.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B4AC71ECB41C for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:19:30 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:19:22 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120315151921.GA18304@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> <682879B1-14C5-48D9-AC26-E79CD1702108@tinyplanet.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <682879B1-14C5-48D9-AC26-E79CD1702108@tinyplanet.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 15:19:32 -0000 On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:06:05AM -0400, Stephen van Egmond wrote: > Beyond technical details, are there business reasons anyone is aware of that may have led IRIS to fail? > Sure: the people who are contractually required to operate WHOIS for names already have a WHOIS service and therefore need to do zero work to set it up. Setting up IRIS (or anything else) requires effort (which means money). And there is no revenue at all associated with running a domain name registration data service: it's all cost. That very problem is one of the premises in the scepticism some have expressed about the viability of the names work in WEIRDS. People have said that all the (possibly contentious) work needed will not result in anything, because all the financial incentives in the DNS names registration community are in favour of not making any change. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From andy@arin.net Thu Mar 15 09:10:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D24721F86E4 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:10:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id if4P4UvlMNRP for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB0421F86F0 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id DBF75164FAD; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70659164FA7 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:10:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:10:25 -0400 Received: from [10.1.0.49] (10.1.0.49) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.339.1; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:10:40 -0400 Message-ID: <4F621480.7090109@arin.net> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:10:40 -0400 From: Andy Newton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> <682879B1-14C5-48D9-AC26-E79CD1702108@tinyplanet.ca> <20120315151921.GA18304@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120315151921.GA18304@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.1.0.49] Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:10:48 -0000 On 03/15/2012 11:19 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Sure: the people who are contractually required to operate WHOIS for > names already have a WHOIS service and therefore need to do zero work > to set it up. Setting up IRIS (or anything else) requires effort > (which means money). And there is no revenue at all associated with > running a domain name registration data service: it's all cost. > > That very problem is one of the premises in the scepticism some have > expressed about the viability of the names work in WEIRDS. People > have said that all the (possibly contentious) work needed will not > result in anything, because all the financial incentives in the DNS > names registration community are in favour of not making any change. Just theorizing, but maybe this isn't a black and white issue. Since IRIS did a lot of stuff, the investment to get it up and running was non-trivial; non-trivial in the sense that a DNS registry had to make a commitment to it instead of investing a small amount of money just to see what came of such a service. It would be best for us to think about doing only what is needed so that the cost to implement is as low as possible. That way organizations that can't justify a large budget on this can hopefully still try it with little expense. -andy From carlosm3011@gmail.com Thu Mar 15 09:14:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15CF321F8775 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:14:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.485 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.485 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xDp4GnnNMZtC for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28EBD21F8546 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:14:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yenm5 with SMTP id m5so3674491yen.31 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:14:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=q9Z4F0KeLsFshjPaNXiJjDfFKHDasi2jkvU6N7KtipM=; b=Or7lCuQlAofk3pbuA9AkskfypawZar/wuxr8ctLiMHcjTh35pkKoCV/oTHEglMVUpt 0Sl/k27+agMwnImw0F3MrUr1ITM7un3t34hwe+s+jRmuHf4FRd29UUj9BZoN/H96zTFx 59XZpngUI084xqo7Xx775KIITg8Lf59mmcAMtdOQbUNZhqAnk2YDIGvADFSRNgoqR4V/ 3UXFcFLnPkak0tmHMwRLxQ8qMw/Afn8dwgrLvqbcXXn639IzKHr8JB7BHx9u9YrcBJsf RSz7Bx3oxzKg7eOfEvRKWy8VouLtk68nqSqWvCxBeqJxadCNxgKAZtIqraaI1K0V1knn OZXA== Received: by 10.236.133.194 with SMTP id q42mr3600204yhi.107.1331828047833; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.local ([200.7.85.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o1sm5972785yhm.21.2012.03.15.09.14.06 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F62154C.1070703@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:14:04 -0300 From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> <682879B1-14C5-48D9-AC26-E79CD1702108@tinyplanet.ca> <20120315151921.GA18304@mail.yitter.info> <4F621480.7090109@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <4F621480.7090109@arin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:14:18 -0000 And, IMO, the need for specialized clients cannot be ignored either. Developing such clients also implies 'cost' (even if they are open source, someone has to develop them). regards Carlos On 3/15/12 1:10 PM, Andy Newton wrote: > On 03/15/2012 11:19 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >> Sure: the people who are contractually required to operate WHOIS for >> names already have a WHOIS service and therefore need to do zero work >> to set it up. Setting up IRIS (or anything else) requires effort >> (which means money). And there is no revenue at all associated with >> running a domain name registration data service: it's all cost. >> >> That very problem is one of the premises in the scepticism some have >> expressed about the viability of the names work in WEIRDS. People >> have said that all the (possibly contentious) work needed will not >> result in anything, because all the financial incentives in the DNS >> names registration community are in favour of not making any change. > > Just theorizing, but maybe this isn't a black and white issue. Since > IRIS did a lot of stuff, the investment to get it up and running was > non-trivial; non-trivial in the sense that a DNS registry had to make > a commitment to it instead of investing a small amount of money just > to see what came of such a service. > > It would be best for us to think about doing only what is needed so > that the cost to implement is as low as possible. That way > organizations that can't justify a large budget on this can hopefully > still try it with little expense. > > -andy > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu Mar 15 09:19:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB8D21F877A for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:19:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zUPWh23HmmDB for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80D8B21F8794 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:19:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (unknown [199.91.193.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D09251ECB41C for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:19:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:19:53 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120315161952.GE18304@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> <682879B1-14C5-48D9-AC26-E79CD1702108@tinyplanet.ca> <20120315151921.GA18304@mail.yitter.info> <4F621480.7090109@arin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F621480.7090109@arin.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:19:53 -0000 On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 12:10:40PM -0400, Andy Newton wrote: > > It would be best for us to think about doing only what is needed so > that the cost to implement is as low as possible. That way > organizations that can't justify a large budget on this can > hopefully still try it with little expense. I think this is right, and might be a suggestion for changes to any of the proposed charters. They all start from the principle that any WG would be broadly aligned with the CRISP requirements, but they don't explicitly say that any resulting WG would always err on the side of simplicity instead of in favour of desired features. To put this another way, we might want to propose that a charter require a base protocol with no optional features. Interoperability is most promoted when everyone can be sure that they MUST do the same thing. The problem with such an approach, of course, is that it's going to increase the contentiousness. But if we were successful, it should reduce the cost of implementation, because a simple and minimal protocol is, all else being equal, less costly to implement than one with a lot of options. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 15 09:32:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 048FB21F8746 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:32:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XweKgW2QjDEz for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B40B21F87B6 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2FDe0xR029915 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:40:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F621982.8090504@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:32:02 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> <682879B1-14C5-48D9-AC26-E79CD1702108@tinyplanet.ca> <20120315151921.GA18304@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120315151921.GA18304@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:32:11 -0000 +1 to andrew sullivan's note. a point i've tried to make to the provreg side of the house is that from the registry perspective, it is an island (regardless of how many properties the rsp hosts), and claims for benefit which are registry-plural (the usual form of registrar interest advocacy) or gtld-universal (the usual form of icann policy advocacy, indistinguishable from vgrs-incumbency interest preference), or contract-external claims of benefit (the usual form of leo and trademark interest advocacy), don't mean spit to the registry operator looking (rationally) out for just itself and its supply chain, if meaningfully distinct from vgrs. it doesn't cost much to maintain the :43 nonsense, and for those registries that price out or policy out the ppc {typo & keyword} squat domainers and policy out or time out (no rapid update) the use-and-burn illegals, the utility of any post-43 is inobvious. so, yes, there were business reasons why iris was not adopted in the blink of an eye, and these were not continuations of the uwho errors of vgrs, or the nih response of its competitors prior to the iris moment in protocol specification time. cost is externalized by some parties, some are registries, some are registrars, and one is icann itself -- all of whom are, to use the phrase of the ipc -- willfully blind to systemic misconduct -- as is of course the ipc insisting that all uses of marks by parties other than the marks holders are indistinguishable, and the leo's with all of their foibles, and the rational economically motivated registrants. none of these parties is putting a nickle on the table, or their very expensive-to-others pseudo-requirements, to see if they meet the sniff test for necessity and utility. so yeah, it's all cost. -e From andy@arin.net Thu Mar 15 09:32:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD57321F8746 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:32:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v6cYJZgDpSPB for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E43F21F87C5 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id D7B6C21360D; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71AB92135AC; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:31:27 -0400 Received: from [10.1.0.49] (10.1.0.49) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.339.1; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:32:11 -0400 Message-ID: <4F62198B.9070305@arin.net> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:32:11 -0400 From: Andy Newton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Sullivan References: <20120313171620.GA71365@registro.br> <93409074-0A5D-4E57-AA0E-D9AB0DB59D76@hxr.us> <24550FD6-1693-4E0A-9E7A-D9267E8D141D@blipp.com> <682879B1-14C5-48D9-AC26-E79CD1702108@tinyplanet.ca> <20120315151921.GA18304@mail.yitter.info> <4F621480.7090109@arin.net> <20120315161952.GE18304@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120315161952.GE18304@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.1.0.49] Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Why did IRIS fail? X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:32:19 -0000 On 03/15/2012 12:19 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > I think this is right, and might be a suggestion for changes to any of > the proposed charters. They all start from the principle that any WG > would be broadly aligned with the CRISP requirements, but they don't > explicitly say that any resulting WG would always err on the side of > simplicity instead of in favour of desired features. To put this > another way, we might want to propose that a charter require a base > protocol with no optional features. Interoperability is most promoted > when everyone can be sure that they MUST do the same thing. So, maybe we need to start from a subset of the CRISP requirements. And I like the idea of charter explicitly calling out the need for simplicity. > > The problem with such an approach, of course, is that it's going to > increase the contentiousness. But if we were successful, it should > reduce the cost of implementation, because a simple and minimal > protocol is, all else being equal, less costly to implement than one > with a lot of options. I think we can get burned with nothing but MUSTs and extension points would be hard to codify. -andy From francisco.arias@icann.org Thu Mar 15 16:50:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B130721F86B1 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:50:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbP2142Gxtw7 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD82B21F86AF for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:50:18 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Ray Bellis , Arturo Servin Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:50:18 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0DBmDnxOxdy6aGS1CViTnTk5ofIA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <447EBA8F-7EC3-4654-BEC2-FD89250E5C30@nominet.org.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 23:50:20 -0000 On 3/13/12 10:43 AM, "Ray Bellis" wrote: > >On 13 Mar 2012, at 16:25, Arturo Servin wrote: > >> +1 >>=20 >> I think the separation is healthy. >>=20 >> Also, why to complicate your life with XML? > >I'm no fan of XML, indeed quite the opposite! > >However I do see the logic in re-using the XML elements defined for EPP >in this case. > >I would just prefer not to see the XML schema and query pattern in the >same document. I see no problem with separating the URI structure and the reply format (be either XML, JSON, etc.). __ Francisco. From aservin@lacnic.net Thu Mar 15 16:58:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B2721E804C for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:58:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.744 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.744 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uCWk6M4ldeJJ for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA78921E800F for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:58:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.196.232.181] (unknown [199.91.194.1]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C20308474; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:58:13 -0300 (UYT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <57E78A07-0D9B-4870-BD3D-35AE38F1816B@lacnic.net> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B176) From: Arturo Servin Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 18:02:10 -0600 To: Francisco Arias X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 23:58:19 -0000 Thanks, that would be great. Regards, as On 15 Mar 2012, at 17:50, Francisco Arias wrote: > On 3/13/12 10:43 AM, "Ray Bellis" wrote: > > >> >> On 13 Mar 2012, at 16:25, Arturo Servin wrote: >> >>> +1 >>> >>> I think the separation is healthy. >>> >>> Also, why to complicate your life with XML? >> >> I'm no fan of XML, indeed quite the opposite! >> >> However I do see the logic in re-using the XML elements defined for EPP >> in this case. >> >> I would just prefer not to see the XML schema and query pattern in the >> same document. > > I see no problem with separating the URI structure and the reply format > (be either XML, JSON, etc.). > > __ > > Francisco. > > From james.mitchell@ausregistry.com.au Fri Mar 16 00:59:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E853521F85B8 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 00:59:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.783 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.783 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.113, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gf4UuBTqGPpY for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 00:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.ausregistry.net.au (mx01.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E513021F84A1 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 00:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron01.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 16 Mar 2012 18:58:59 +1100 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:58:44 +1100 From: James Mitchell To: Steve Sheng , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:58:58 +1100 Thread-Topic: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0DSpvb/IVl+XQvR1K/E8n46MXVcg== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 07:59:03 -0000 > We welcome feedback on this draft. The draft also identifies serveral >outstanding issues that need further work. Our question is are there more >domain registries willing to build on this and work together on this? Thanks for putting this draft together. We (AusRegistry) are interested in and will contribute to any effort on a replacement for the WHOIS protocol for domain name registration data. Comments on the draft below. Overall: I think this draft is on the right track, however as this is a replacement for WHOIS I believe it should address behaviour given existing use-cases. For example this draft should explicitly state how a server should respond when - an object does not exist - is it 404 or a 200 with a message stating 'object not found'? - a server wants a free-text message to be returned, for example 'name is reserved' or 'name may be accepting third level registrations' - does the server reject requests containing only the application/xml header until the text/plain header is allowed? - a client has reached a server-defined query limit - is there a specific HTTP code or is a free text message returned as above? - a server wants a blob of text explaining the rights of the server operator and the client to be displayed to the client - should the server respond with multipart messages?. If these are not covered we will have servers that provide inconsistent behaviour. Note that there may be some overlap here with the RIR work. 3.1 Domain: I do not see any value in the use of path segments to get 'registration', 'contact', or 'registrar' information for a domain name. This information can be extracted from the full response and existing whois consumers have been parsing this information from the full response for many many years. These additions appear to be feature creep that will contribute to increased cost of development and lower motivation for change. Otherwise the motivation for this new behaviour should be explicitly stated. 3.5. Signaling Response Formats: I believe it is important that this work specify exactly ONE mandatory format for the time being. HTTP provides mechanisms to signal preferred media type and these mechanisms can be used to support alternate formats. Avoiding the argument about what formats are mandatory and assuming the response is XML I suggest replacing the text with something along the lines of below. --=20 Servers MUST support the XML response format as described in this document. Servers MAY also support additional formats to meet local requirements. A server that provides a format compatible with its plain-text responses of the current WHOIS protocol is an example of the use of an alternate format. To promote interoperability, servers providing formats other than plain-text are encouraged to publish their formats through the IETF and to update this document. As servers may support more than one format, clients SHOULD signal the preferred response format using the HTTP Accept request header field. Mechanisms by which a client establishes the formats supported by a specific server are outside the scope of this draft. The existing supported response formats and their MIME types are: XML - application/xml plain text - text/plain -- 7.3. Considerations for Indicating Language/scripts in Responses: HTTP supports both Accept-Language and Content-Language. Is there a reason these fields cannot be used? Regards, James Mitchell AusRegistry International From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Fri Mar 16 01:09:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222E721F86F1 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 01:09:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.284 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.284 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.315, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M5YhU83ugj8L for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 01:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mx3.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1BA21F871C for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 01:09:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=kYxBavbjz281OPnxW2hdtophmqtPmgDblyZd2q/p/YfxKeTbwW4BrEai tsCo2XrqXq950OI4F7WhM6y8NWAlc7K/z4/2x/5sXNgl0V9EJaJOhl7JT UIh6wWs3BeToU4y; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1331885364; x=1363421364; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20FW:=20New=20Version=20Notifi cation=20for=0D=0A=20draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 .txt|Date:=20Fri,=2016=20Mar=202012=2008:09:20=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20|To:=20James=20Mitchell=20|CC:=20Steve=20Sheng=20,=20"weirds@ietf.org"=20 |MIME-Version:=201.0|Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted- printable|Content-ID:=20<656460c1-9ab1-499d-848b-8c4b31e6 f5c1>|In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20; bh=F8Ei8hth3SYLx74Mtuwx2Ig9Q4q1h7t4mu49UClBoOo=; b=okrUc86ml9jNMJfFZId4obcawg2aa7H3VvkAYhrV/Jsncqa5mx8ZPvBb 8yliFvjKTKzEtFb19Nw1piiX8GTvMcAWux9tHYpucR+jFCbLA7n4j9o3/ aTLr3MRv9qdHLG2; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,597,1325462400"; d="scan'208";a="38852654" Received: from wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.145]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 16 Mar 2012 08:09:22 +0000 Received: from WDS-EXC1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f]) by wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4%19]) with mapi; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:09:21 +0000 From: Ray Bellis To: James Mitchell Thread-Topic: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0AzhMjjz5P65HjQTSr5doOclGtHACfJEAAAABcsAA= Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:09:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <656460c1-9ab1-499d-848b-8c4b31e6f5c1> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:09:26 -0000 On 16 Mar 2012, at 07:58, James Mitchell wrote: > For example this draft should explicitly state how a server should respon= d > when > - an object does not exist - is it 404 or a 200 with a message stating > 'object not found'? IMHO, a 404 error. > - a server wants a free-text message to be returned, for example 'name > is reserved' or 'name may be accepting third level registrations' - does > the server reject requests containing only the application/xml header > until the text/plain header is allowed? no comment > - a client has reached a server-defined query limit - is there a > specific HTTP code or is a free text message returned as above? 429 Too Many Requests (draft-nottingham-http-new-status-04) Ray From msk@cloudmark.com Fri Mar 16 09:45:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A418221F8768 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:45:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.603 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.603 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.004, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R6aF0E0JgPiz for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3624621F8755 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::e82a:4f80:7f44:eaf7%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:45:17 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0AzhMjjz5P65HjQTSr5doOclGtHACtz1gAAABcrwAAA1IqUA== Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:45:17 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:45:18 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Ray Bellis > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 1:09 AM > To: James Mitchell > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds= -icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >=20 > > For example this draft should explicitly state how a server should > > respond when > > - an object does not exist - is it 404 or a 200 with a message > > stating 'object not found'? >=20 > IMHO, a 404 error. Why? I'd prefer 200 with a "No such record" message, since a 404 would oth= erwise be indistinguishable from a service that's currently broken in some = way. -MSK From fobispo@isc.org Fri Mar 16 09:49:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D068A21E800E for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:49:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fCO39tlQ0HP0 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4756721F8606 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:49:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4477EC9423; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:49:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 28FF0216C36; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:49:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:49:20 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <43205D7D-109C-483C-9560-2333C3153306@isc.org> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:49:33 -0000 404 is 'not found'=20 if you're just looking to see if an object exists or not, a 404 response = will be available right in the HTTP header, no need to parse, etc. If you issue a HEAD request, you will find this very handy. On Mar 16, 2012, at 9:45 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Ray Bellis >> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 1:09 AM >> To: James Mitchell >> Cc: weirds@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for = draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >>=20 >>> For example this draft should explicitly state how a server should >>> respond when >>> - an object does not exist - is it 404 or a 200 with a message >>> stating 'object not found'? >>=20 >> IMHO, a 404 error. >=20 > Why? I'd prefer 200 with a "No such record" message, since a 404 = would otherwise be indistinguishable from a service that's currently = broken in some way. >=20 > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From fobispo@isc.org Fri Mar 16 09:51:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A54D21E8027 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vvRACmOsYkwu for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47FE21E800E for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13F465F98BF; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:51:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CB9F9216C3B; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:50:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:50:56 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <47605122-1765-4EF0-8DCC-0DF99FAD36B4@isc.org> References: To: James Mitchell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:51:24 -0000 This could be addressed by adding a 'disclaimer' to the response, this = is part of the XML Schema discussion, and I'll add it to my to-do list. Thanks On Mar 16, 2012, at 12:58 AM, James Mitchell wrote: > - a server wants a blob of text explaining the rights of the server > operator and the client to be displayed to the client - should the = server > respond with multipart messages?. Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From gavin.brown@centralnic.com Fri Mar 16 10:15:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAD4121F8687 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:15:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dt5oFPrRdwjV for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.centralnic.com (smtp.centralnic.com [193.105.170.131]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BE5021F8682 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Gavins-iMac.local (82-68-174-114.in-addr.centralnic.net [82.68.174.114]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.centralnic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA45712C7D; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:15:38 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <4F63753A.8030101@centralnic.com> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:15:38 +0000 From: Gavin Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:15:41 -0000 >>> For example this draft should explicitly state how a server should >>> respond when >>> - an object does not exist - is it 404 or a 200 with a message >>> stating 'object not found'? >> >> IMHO, a 404 error. > > Why? I'd prefer 200 with a "No such record" message, since a 404 would otherwise be indistinguishable from a service that's currently broken in some way. A broken service should return a 500 error. Servers can be configured to do this (Apache does it automatically for CGI scripts). G. -- Gavin Brown Chief Technology Officer CentralNic Ltd Innovative, Reliable and Flexible Registry Services for ccTLD, gTLD and private domain name registries https://www.centralnic.com/ CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. From Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz Fri Mar 16 14:24:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF2D21E8028 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:24:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_91=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tSb39cRoPVwV for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB8621E8091 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:24:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Work-Laptop-2.local (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2GLOlfb062586; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:24:49 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Received: from [192.168.130.54] by Work-Laptop-2.local (PGP Universal service); Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:24:50 -0400 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by Work-Laptop-2.local on Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:24:50 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4906D474-B692-4D23-BC4A-BB8DBB100691@kumari.net> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4906D474-B692-4D23-BC4A-BB8DBB100691@kumari.net> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:24:10 -0400 To: "weirds@ietf.org" From: Edward Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 10.20.30.4 Subject: [weirds] Questions about draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:24:52 -0000 >>> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf Of Steve Sheng >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:02 AM >>> To: weirds@ietf.org >>> Subject: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds- >>> icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >>> Here is the URL of the draft: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 I am coming late to the party and the only document I have read is the one referenced above, so I'll submit some comments in the form of questions. 1.) In some WhoIs servers, DNSSEC information is (or has been) included. Would including DNSSEC information (DS, DNSKEY, etc.) be beneficial? (I'm not necessarily for adding it, but in the spirit of being at least as "capable" as port 43...) 2. Off and on I hear discussions of what is exposed in WhoIs - for example - should an address be full and complete to the street address or just part of a postal code. (The usual context is IP addresses which I know is in another document. I'm mentioning this as an example.) Question #2 is - is it desirable to be able to answer differently to authenticated and authorized queries than anonymous queries? If the answer is yes, then that means a whole authentication, authorization, and privacy mechansim(s?) be defined. 3. Is there a desire to add "source authentication" and "data integrity" information to this? E.g., have a signature that is perhaps verified by a registry's KEY (as opposed to DNSKEY)? (I recall old work in XMLSIG happening - no idea if it completed, succeeded/failed, just mentioning that there was once such a WG.) I've seen this on a slide deck at the ICANN 43 ccNSO Tech Day, but missed it in the draft. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 2012...time to reuse those 1984 calendars! From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Sat Mar 17 06:40:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E58A21F867A for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 06:40:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.279 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.279 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.319, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EPMB3xhKuMBA for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 06:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nominet.org.uk (mail.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.24]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C5021F8679 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 06:40:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: MIME-Version; b=fJz9dlph1646f7ozlJvnHH50nnplYTOeCQ9fY99vi2VSiFTSke+CM7op qnX9j0ZGpcu4/buPamQj/xxw0TBpkHNImtAtaXspzPgWmFGtv1S33c6eW mzt19Ku6e93uftD; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1331991608; x=1363527608; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20New=20Version=20Notification =20for=0D=0A=20draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt |Date:=20Sat,=2017=20Mar=202012=2013:40:25=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20|To:=20"weirds@ietf.org"=20 |MIME-Version:=201.0|In-Reply-To:=20<9452079D1A51524AA574 9AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> |References:=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20<9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808 EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com>; bh=gxPXW5crLZONA78TTATdwDOJvjigodG3CgbZ3ChTcUs=; b=b1a+eCdUMgp5pPZyzebrjKMqFkaMOno/kWmRUmW8tRfscxeIHXQOteel p2vJvavlTXLfTWKOIQaBLmqeg6l8Sgq69iASNDLpAZXNnNvUFjmYbTG4j 1tTtt1ICItI4I/Y; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,602,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="31778028" Received: from wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.145]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 17 Mar 2012 13:40:07 +0000 Received: from WDS-EXC1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f]) by wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4%19]) with mapi; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:40:06 +0000 From: Ray Bellis To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBEN22Yfc3aqOe0SasJc3qHla7w== Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:40:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D85B1382109E4D7D97CB0D06F21C1F6Enominetorguk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:40:09 -0000 --_000_D85B1382109E4D7D97CB0D06F21C1F6Enominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 16 Mar 2012, at 16:45, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: Why? I'd prefer 200 with a "No such record" message, since a 404 would oth= erwise be indistinguishable from a service that's currently broken in some = way. Because then that error message has to accommodated within the data model. I'm fairly sure (having just looked for some examples) that using HTTP stat= us codes is "the RESTful way". As others have pointed out, a service broken in some other way SHOULD (MUST= ?) be producing something other than a 404 error. Ray --_000_D85B1382109E4D7D97CB0D06F21C1F6Enominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5e5f061a-c5ba-4da9-ba16-6dae7fccfd8b> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 16 Mar 2012, at 16:4= 5, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

Why?  I'd prefer = 200 with a "No such record" message, since a 404 would otherwise = be indistinguishable from a service that's currently broken in some way.

Because then that error message has to a= ccommodated within the data model.

I'm fairly sure= (having just looked for some examples) that using HTTP status codes is &qu= ot;the RESTful way".

As others have pointed o= ut, a service broken in some other way SHOULD (MUST?) be producing somethin= g other than a 404 error.

Ray

= = --_000_D85B1382109E4D7D97CB0D06F21C1F6Enominetorguk_-- From wil@cloudregistry.net Sat Mar 17 07:26:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254DF21F865B for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:26:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WKBcz+l85iEb for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 643FD21F85ED for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:25:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so8107440iaz.31 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:25:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=EYMLxYdcO6Jtxzil9zXm0xJg8Nf24eBENjtfHP3eKWw=; b=MxQQOK1FvuiYFGxeXaVKHRaewfD0iPd6Ujxl/vj4eIiR6MKjTLp5FMn1C2etpWtg7f 1qD6EoSgZEYItcruQImuSutKMY3g3OVZ+keN+1DJEWGev2UH2CYrI9+vNpFMVXxgPO+4 N8XNfAlpGKGbqP/Ni8KVn8LBBhj3T9w2rHHtfuyrTAXSj70Wrf2QLX4H1O7PTPyM8VwL 2FVer3aAGjidB1FOD0fzodPmrY+GTvArfBBa6j6y+zZIchkJ+K9mE3Sczn4zImpBGh8X u9xgDbgfNHwtocYIuySeQ/3AB1rSONaQCM4962VDMQY4MxdnVF9ljC84JG7RivNhu8nU DZNg== Received: by 10.50.203.74 with SMTP id ko10mr2077177igc.7.1331994349994; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:25:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.50.92.74 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:25:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> From: Wil Tan Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 01:25:09 +1100 Message-ID: To: Ray Bellis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae934078713034504bb711a1a X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkYZ+WeGajS2DezOhfbNz5ru6BZ35lsBc8fj1hFcUORBC8luGhftNSLrhlRYThtv1Dggusn Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:26:04 -0000 --14dae934078713034504bb711a1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 12:40 AM, Ray Bellis wrote: > > On 16 Mar 2012, at 16:45, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > > Why? I'd prefer 200 with a "No such record" message, since a 404 would > otherwise be indistinguishable from a service that's currently broken in > some way. > > > Because then that error message has to accommodated within the data model. > > I'm fairly sure (having just looked for some examples) that using HTTP > status codes is "the RESTful way". > > As others have pointed out, a service broken in some other way SHOULD > (MUST?) be producing something other than a 404 error. > > Agree that using HTTP status codes is the way to go. However, I can appreciate Murray's concern because if a client is configured with the wrong base URI, it could very well run into a web server that returns 404 because the resource at that URI is indeed not found. If there isn't another machine understandable way to distinguish between that and a weirds "no such record" response, the client will just happily think that there's no such object in the registry. One way of dealing with it is to return an empty xml document with the appropriate Content-Type in the 404 response. .wil --14dae934078713034504bb711a1a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 12:40 AM, Ray Be= llis <Ray= .Bellis@nominet.org.uk> wrote:

On 16 M= ar 2012, at 16:45, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

Why? =C2=A0I'd prefer 200 wit= h a "No such record" message, since a 404 would otherwise be indi= stinguishable from a service that's currently broken in some way.

Because then that error message has= to accommodated within the data model.

I'm fa= irly sure (having just looked for some examples) that using HTTP status cod= es is "the RESTful way".

As others have pointed out, a service broken in some ot= her way SHOULD (MUST?) be producing something other than a 404 error.
=


Agree that using HTTP status codes is the = way to go.

However, I can appreciate Murray's = concern because if a client is configured with the wrong base URI, it could= very well run into a web server that returns 404 because the resource at t= hat URI is indeed not found. If there isn't another machine understanda= ble way to distinguish between that and a weirds "no such record"= response, the client will just happily think that there's no such obje= ct in the registry.

One way of dealing with it is to return an empty xml do= cument=C2=A0<rws><result /></rws> with the appropriate Co= ntent-Type in the 404 response.

.wil
--14dae934078713034504bb711a1a-- From fobispo@isc.org Sat Mar 17 07:30:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F21E21F868C for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:30:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UnjoEpFvYooM for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA52D21F8633 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 349045F98A2; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:30:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8759216C31; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:29:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 07:29:58 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Wil Tan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:30:15 -0000 I wouldn't work for HEAD requests, as there is no body in the response.. = If this is an issue, we can perhaps consider the use of another header = to signal the client about an authoritative answer. On Mar 17, 2012, at 7:25 AM, Wil Tan wrote: >=20 > One way of dealing with it is to return an empty xml document = with the appropriate Content-Type in the 404 = response. >=20 > .wil Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Sat Mar 17 08:42:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D8221F861A for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:42:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.292 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.292 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.307, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E5pT0oAw5sCi for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nominet.org.uk (mail.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.24]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D967F21F8619 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:42:19 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=Be8PiE+78EctBk3cb8AlUDg9coVm+bOPs9bbg4MG7s658espRsF49/Z5 qEUSeVOaUG23GganUiayV2jWphEC5qLKFl1Dohv9v42z/fd3EzHlHcf+m sGzPYgpsMPO11Ik; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1331998941; x=1363534941; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20New=20Version=20Notification =20for=0D=0A=20draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt |Date:=20Sat,=2017=20Mar=202012=2015:42:15=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20<401FA6C2-977C-47F1-B22A-09CC9C4C897D@nomi net.org.uk>|To:=20Wil=20Tan=20|CC: =20"weirds@ietf.org"=20|MIME-Version:=20 1.0|Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |Content-ID:=20 |In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20<945 2079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.clou dmark.com>=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20; bh=Dmyg6nGMU2hf21WqpzphM5i9do138INl3Iw8iXAYs5U=; b=owDFgiAiOLy/rOvIn1P4KqDWcvmdtn0tEOGrPp3f/7bEauJX89lRuII8 o/45V6bRC2Y8P+oAh37kI26OUnqzcKBqkkIWbkftbRpbVaeduMeaKnQPX cqErhNi3r2wPnA1; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,603,1325462400"; d="scan'208";a="31783424" Received: from wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.145]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 17 Mar 2012 15:41:57 +0000 Received: from WDS-EXC1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f]) by wds-exc2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4%19]) with mapi; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:41:57 +0000 From: Ray Bellis To: Wil Tan Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBEN22Yfc3aqOe0SasJc3qHla75ZuivyAgAAVioA= Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:42:15 +0000 Message-ID: <401FA6C2-977C-47F1-B22A-09CC9C4C897D@nominet.org.uk> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:42:22 -0000 On 17 Mar 2012, at 14:25, Wil Tan wrote: > Agree that using HTTP status codes is the way to go. >=20 > However, I can appreciate Murray's concern because if a client is configu= red with the wrong base URI, it could very well run into a web server that = returns 404 because the resource at that URI is indeed not found. If there = isn't another machine understandable way to distinguish between that and a = weirds "no such record" response, the client will just happily think that t= here's no such object in the registry. Yes, that's a potential concern. However it's not _too_ far different to the problem of sending a query for = foo.com to the wrong 'whois' server: % whois -h whois.tucows.com foo.co.uk. No match for FOO.CO.UK. % whois -h whois.tucows.com asdlkasjlda.com. No match for ASDLKASJLDA.COM. that is, there's no indication here that the first query was sent to the wr= ong server. > One way of dealing with it is to return an empty xml document with the appropriate Content-Type in the 404 response. Which is kind of what I meant about having to deal with the data model. If= you do it like that, the error response has to vary depending on the desir= ed output format. FWIW, I don't think the "not found" part of a 404 error is mandated. A res= ponse of "404 not found" could suffice to differentiate a que= ry for a non-existent resource sent to a WEIRDS server from a query incorre= ctly sent to a plain web server. I don't know if that's considered an appropriate overloading of the status = header in a RESTful service, though. Ray From fobispo@isc.org Sat Mar 17 08:51:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253AE21F863E for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:51:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RngLuUp0oCe1 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFBB21F85D0 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 423095F98B1; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:51:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:65:ace6:5eeb:df82:3c5] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:65:ace6:5eeb:df82:3c5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7B874216C36; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:50:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <401FA6C2-977C-47F1-B22A-09CC9C4C897D@nominet.org.uk> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 08:50:58 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <612606AD-FEC1-445F-9C93-AE94BCF967EA@isc.org> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <401FA6C2-977C-47F1-B22A-09CC9C4C897D@nominet.org.uk> To: Ray Bellis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:51:13 -0000 Like I mentioned in my previous email,=20 HEAD requests are a very useful part of the RESTful interface. You don't = want to mandate or rely on anything in the body to determine whether an = object exists or not. on an HTTP HEAD request you servers don't send a body, just the Headers, = which are used by the client to determine among other things, whether an = object exists/has been updated/moved, etc. regards, Francisco On Mar 17, 2012, at 8:42 AM, Ray Bellis wrote: > FWIW, I don't think the "not found" part of a 404 error is mandated. = A response of "404 not found" could suffice to = differentiate a query for a non-existent resource sent to a WEIRDS = server from a query incorrectly sent to a plain web server. >=20 > I don't know if that's considered an appropriate overloading of the = status header in a RESTful service, though. Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Sat Mar 17 09:58:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F2621F84B9 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 09:58:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Be85XTyJVTH3 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 09:58:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E229C21F84B8 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 09:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2HE6Cft047305 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:06:13 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F64C2C3.40607@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:58:43 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E00392808EE29@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <401FA6C2-977C-47F1-B22A-09CC9C4C897D@nominet.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <401FA6C2-977C-47F1-B22A-09CC9C4C897D@nominet.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:58:51 -0000 On 3/17/12 11:42 AM, Ray Bellis wrote: > ... > However it's not _too_ far different to the problem of sending a query for foo.com to the wrong 'whois' server: > > % whois -h whois.tucows.com foo.co.uk. > No match for FOO.CO.UK. > > % whois -h whois.tucows.com asdlkasjlda.com. > No match for ASDLKASJLDA.COM. > > that is, there's no indication here that the first query was sent to the wrong server. This occurred to me when i saw the /mumble/IANA_ID/mumble/ pattern in a proposed URI. I've pointed this out several times in ICANN policy meetings, a significant number of IANA registrar identifiers are held by an order of magnitude fewer business entities. So I suggest that where a wildcard, or a meta-identifier is useful, it is allowed, e.g., foo/enom-any/bar would match for any of the 29 eNomNNNN entries. This would have an IANA dependency, one that ICANN compliance can, and IMO should address, of creating the "aliases" file so that one can ask, in fewer than N/2 queries (on average), which nominally distinct registrar_id (and possibly distinct whois server) is not the "wrong server". Eric From johnl@iecc.com Sat Mar 17 10:53:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D24A21F861B for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:53:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.597, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e1H4PHWzjcne for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 468FE21F861A for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 10:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 86387 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2012 17:53:13 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 17 Mar 2012 17:53:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4f64cf89.xn--btvx9d.k1203; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=BkKCp12X5pfit8G14Qswhip17vCbM3JTgBEtWfWZbrw=; b=nJmUP8IUQtllQ1qk/Se4sMYRH2ltycc1YbEBnZNyVEjq2s3doXpxw5qeJrV6GBu5y+TesB1nM/dQ3DWyYjLLK5YFIv9BfCfl66RTesXLgJ5zsXbsQCur2iBDWOQTaC/sccc5+FNRq/otoUTzJAIXn1YCyTMLe0/jF6lWXzjX9Dc= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 17 Mar 2012 17:52:51 -0000 Message-ID: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 17:53:17 -0000 >However, I can appreciate Murray's concern because if a client is >configured with the wrong base URI, it could very well run into a web >server that returns 404 because the resource at that URI is indeed not >found. Trying to anticipate all the ways people will screw up is hopeless. (As has often been noted, if you make things idiot proof, you will just select for a more ingenious level of idiot.) On the other hand, a web server does return a document with a 404 response, so I'd suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) servers to return a document that makes it clear that the server understood the question, but doesn't have any data to answer it. R's, John From msk@cloudmark.com Sat Mar 17 11:04:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1208621F857A for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:04:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id guuLrUUN3LcW for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F5E21F8572 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by EXCH-HTCAS901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2966:6846:8d89:4681%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:04:28 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBEnjQaJBMn5vfE6elmWWJbGsGpZvOk+A//+NYkA= Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:04:27 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928091220@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:04:30 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of John Levine > Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:53 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-ica= nn-rws-dnrd-01.txt >=20 > On the other hand, a web server does return a document with a 404 > response, so I'd suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) servers to return a > document that makes it clear that the server understood the question, > but doesn't have any data to answer it. Right. I'm concerned with "404" being ambiguous; it could mean "I have no = data about that domain/IP address" or it could mean "You got the URL entire= ly wrong." It would be awfully nice to be able to tell the difference. -MSK From svanegmond@tinyplanet.ca Sat Mar 17 11:05:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A164521F857A for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:05:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ORi+TiVooYHf for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from desiato.tinyplanet.ca (desiato.tinyplanet.ca [204.225.122.212]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE5821F85D0 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [72.38.188.3] (helo=[192.168.0.105]) by desiato.tinyplanet.ca with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1S8xyl-0003uo-G9; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:03:48 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_79149D7D-DA84-4EC0-9F8B-205F37F39DE6" From: Stephen van Egmond In-Reply-To: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:04:42 -0400 Message-Id: References: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> To: "John Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 72.38.188.3 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: svanegmond@tinyplanet.ca X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:24:06 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on desiato.tinyplanet.ca) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:05:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_79149D7D-DA84-4EC0-9F8B-205F37F39DE6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 2012-03-17, at 1:52 PM, John Levine wrote: > On the other hand, a web server does return a document with a 404 > response, so I'd suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) servers to return > a document that makes it clear that the server understood the > question, but doesn't have any data to answer it. There are 99 other values in the 400-499 range that can be used to = indicate specific types of client request errors. --Apple-Mail=_79149D7D-DA84-4EC0-9F8B-205F37F39DE6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
On the other = hand, a web server does return a document with a 404
response, so I'd = suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) servers to return
a document that = makes it clear that the server understood the
question, but doesn't = have any data to answer it.

There = are 99 other values in the 400-499 range that can be used to indicate = specific types of client request = errors.


= --Apple-Mail=_79149D7D-DA84-4EC0-9F8B-205F37F39DE6-- From johnl@iecc.com Sat Mar 17 11:31:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 442EA21F85A3 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:31:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.152, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QA1ST0B3kLAk for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DE5121F85B1 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 96080 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2012 18:31:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=1774f.4f64d876.k1203; bh=at+NlGmDm07slgoG1m8bsK3rRglPDJJ3fMTqKwbyyqc=; b=Y77CvAVJHPp/LY+UVJdAuMsdrjWYMENyhQlnLfX7lZYIa/4DFEkJ+U5EYayG1bFsKm/6gZEhow3HKDIHD4iK3RmH5b79J+wKIshQY2dedF68ffr0DOD5OoeVCCp9g0GZWgaHGJfi5FHTL/j6TsbPRx/eS5kixBxyiuowEq+uW0k= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 17 Mar 2012 18:30:56 -0000 Date: 17 Mar 2012 19:31:13 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Stephen van Egmond" In-Reply-To: References: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:31:29 -0000 >> On the other hand, a web server does return a document with a 404 >> response, so I'd suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) servers to return >> a document that makes it clear that the server understood the >> question, but doesn't have any data to answer it. > > There are 99 other values in the 400-499 range that can be used to indicate specific types of client request errors. Indeed, but the last time I checked, it's not easy to persuade many web servers to generate them. For that matter, do you have any idea what browsers do with, say, a 477 error? I think I know what they're supposed to do, but I'd be surprised if anyone's tested it. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From fobispo@isc.org Sat Mar 17 11:36:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A9921F860E for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:36:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lqtjSNYJyDn1 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4391121F85F3 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CC5FC9424; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:36:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:65:ace6:5eeb:df82:3c5] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:65:ace6:5eeb:df82:3c5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DECFC216C31; Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:36:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 11:36:37 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1A5D9FD9-EC42-4F81-B0B7-6BFD6A7FA68F@isc.org> References: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> To: "John R. Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:36:51 -0000 On Mar 17, 2012, at 11:31 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > Indeed, but the last time I checked, it's not easy to persuade many = web servers to generate them. For that matter, do you have any idea = what browsers do with, say, a 477 error? I think I know what they're = supposed to do, but I'd be surprised if anyone's tested it. They don't need to, the status code should be generated by the = underlying application (aka: whois service). The webserver should just = pass that information along. Browsers normally don't do anything with status codes (some exceptions = like redirects, do happen at the browser level). status codes will work = as signal mechanism for the protocol, nothing else. Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From gavin.brown@centralnic.com Mon Mar 19 01:24:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4181021F8505 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 01:24:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0DKHtt95fbES for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 01:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.centralnic.com (smtp.centralnic.com [193.105.170.131]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3154521F8503 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 01:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.42.42.146] (unknown [31.106.177.233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.centralnic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26132712BC0; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:24:15 +0000 (UTC) References: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-31005AA1-7DCB-44FC-BF66-C723338CB882 Message-Id: <5B3F3639-AEEB-42AB-A904-EBC0B1EB2386@centralnic.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B176) From: Gavin Brown Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:14:56 +0000 To: Stephen van Egmond Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:24:18 -0000 --Apple-Mail-31005AA1-7DCB-44FC-BF66-C723338CB882 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 410 ("gone") might be suitable. It indicates a permanent error ("the object d= oes not exist, and never will on this server"). A server can return a 404 fo= r non-existent objects within its bailiwick, and 410 for anything outside it= s bailiwick. G. --=20 Gavin Brown Chief Technology Officer CentralNic Ltd Innovative Registry Services for ccTLD and gTLD registries https://www.centralnic.com/ CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. On 17 Mar 2012, at 18:04, Stephen van Egmond wrot= e: >=20 > On 2012-03-17, at 1:52 PM, John Levine wrote: >=20 >> On the other hand, a web server does return a document with a 404 >> response, so I'd suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) servers to return >> a document that makes it clear that the server understood the >> question, but doesn't have any data to answer it. >=20 > There are 99 other values in the 400-499 range that can be used to indicat= e specific types of client request errors. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail-31005AA1-7DCB-44FC-BF66-C723338CB882 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
410 ("gone") might be suit= able. It indicates a permanent error ("the object does not exist, and never w= ill on this server"). A server can return a 404 for non-existent objects wit= hin its bailiwick, and 410 for anything outside its bailiwick.
G.

-- 
Gavin Brown
Chief Te= chnology Officer
CentralNic Ltd
Innovative Registry Serv= ices for ccTLD and gTLD registries

CentralNic= Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company
num= ber 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR.

On 17 Mar 2012, at 18:04, Stephen van Egmond <svanegmond@tinyplanet.ca> wrote:

<= /div>

On 2012-03-17, a= t 1:52 PM, John Levine wrote:

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">On the other hand, a web server does return a doc= ument with a 404
response, so I'd suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) serv= ers to return
a document that makes it clear that the server understood t= he
question, but doesn't have any data to answer it.

There are 99 other values in the 400-499 range that can be= used to indicate specific types of client request errors.


__= _____________________________________________
weirds mailing= list
weirds@ietf.org=
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds
= = --Apple-Mail-31005AA1-7DCB-44FC-BF66-C723338CB882-- From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Mon Mar 19 06:24:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4557A21F8691 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 06:24:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vK6gMkCGMeJa for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 06:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000:226:55ff:fe57:14db]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4FC121F868C for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 06:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h99.viagenie.ca (h99.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.99]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3A7FE4005E for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:24:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Blanchet Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7118A3C1-C4DB-4281-A340-01D0F58F73E8" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:24:20 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5B3F3639-AEEB-42AB-A904-EBC0B1EB2386@centralnic.com> To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> <5B3F3639-AEEB-42AB-A904-EBC0B1EB2386@centralnic.com> Message-Id: <6F1E37FB-9556-44B5-A355-70FB1B9179B1@viagenie.ca> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:24:24 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7118A3C1-C4DB-4281-A340-01D0F58F73E8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 might need to think about the fact that the object (domain) does not = exist as is but the reason may be useful to know: an illegal idn, a = prohibited domain, exists but not that length (for an address registry), = etc=85. can we do this really with 404? marc. Le 2012-03-19 =E0 04:14, Gavin Brown a =E9crit : > 410 ("gone") might be suitable. It indicates a permanent error ("the = object does not exist, and never will on this server"). A server can = return a 404 for non-existent objects within its bailiwick, and 410 for = anything outside its bailiwick. >=20 > G. >=20 > --=20 > Gavin Brown > Chief Technology Officer > CentralNic Ltd > Innovative Registry Services for ccTLD and gTLD registries > https://www.centralnic.com/ >=20 > CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with = company > number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. >=20 > On 17 Mar 2012, at 18:04, Stephen van Egmond = wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On 2012-03-17, at 1:52 PM, John Levine wrote: >>=20 >>> On the other hand, a web server does return a document with a 404 >>> response, so I'd suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) servers to = return >>> a document that makes it clear that the server understood the >>> question, but doesn't have any data to answer it. >>=20 >> There are 99 other values in the 400-499 range that can be used to = indicate specific types of client request errors. >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail=_7118A3C1-C4DB-4281-A340-01D0F58F73E8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 might = need to think about the fact that the object (domain) does not exist as = is but the reason may be useful to know: an illegal idn, a prohibited = domain, exists but not that length (for an address registry), etc=85. = can we do this really with = 404?

marc.

Le 2012-03-19 =E0 = 04:14, Gavin Brown a =E9crit :

410 ("gone") might be suitable. It indicates a = permanent error ("the object does not exist, and never will on this = server"). A server can return a 404 for non-existent objects within its = bailiwick, and 410 for anything outside its = bailiwick.

G.

-- 
Gavi= n Brown
Chief Technology Officer
CentralNic = Ltd
Innovative Registry Services for ccTLD and gTLD = registries
=

CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England = and Wales with company
number 4985780. Registered Offices: = 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR.

On 17 Mar 2012, at = 18:04, Stephen van Egmond <svanegmond@tinyplanet.ca> = wrote:


On 2012-03-17, at 1:52 PM, John Levine = wrote:

On the other = hand, a web server does return a document with a 404
response, so I'd = suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) servers to return
a document that = makes it clear that the server understood the
question, but doesn't = have any data to answer it.

There = are 99 other values in the 400-499 range that can be used to indicate = specific types of client request = errors.


_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/weirds
__________= _____________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds

= --Apple-Mail=_7118A3C1-C4DB-4281-A340-01D0F58F73E8-- From andy@arin.net Mon Mar 19 06:45:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83BC821F84EE for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 06:45:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RRuQfr-jUfAo for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 06:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CECCF21F84E1 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 06:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 59D09165319; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEF4165302; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:45:29 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.55]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:45:34 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Marc Blanchet Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBdaOIkqVIVHXskmtnsWrUIvj5w== Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:45:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> <5B3F3639-AEEB-42AB-A904-EBC0B1EB2386@centralnic.com> <6F1E37FB-9556-44B5-A355-70FB1B9179B1@viagenie.ca> In-Reply-To: <6F1E37FB-9556-44B5-A355-70FB1B9179B1@viagenie.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <0F8CB8278D661943901D5810F6766C21@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:45:36 -0000 On Mar 19, 2012, at 9:24 AM, Marc Blanchet wrote: > might need to think about the fact that the object (domain) does not exis= t as is but the reason may be useful to know: an illegal idn, a prohibited = domain, exists but not that length (for an address registry), etc=85. can w= e do this really with 404? In the 2 years we have been operating our RESTful whois service this has ne= ver been an issue. Our experience is that entities in 404s, etc=85 are eith= er ignored or cause confusion. BTW, I would think an illegal IDN would be a= 400. -andy= From fobispo@isc.org Mon Mar 19 10:17:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 767DD21F88B3 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:17:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id am1dkQzfid7f for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7BC21F88B2 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28A5E5F98AF; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:17:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:65:cc8b:be1:fc62:98c1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:65:cc8b:be1:fc62:98c1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9F7C4216C56; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:16:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <6F1E37FB-9556-44B5-A355-70FB1B9179B1@viagenie.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:16:58 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <973C0CE3-C996-4C9D-ACBC-892F6A1A4015@isc.org> References: <20120317175251.57315.qmail@joyce.lan> <5B3F3639-AEEB-42AB-A904-EBC0B1EB2386@centralnic.com> <6F1E37FB-9556-44B5-A355-70FB1B9179B1@viagenie.ca> To: Marc Blanchet X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:17:21 -0000 On Mar 19, 2012, at 6:24 AM, Marc Blanchet wrote: > might need to think about the fact that the object (domain) does not = exist as is but the reason may be useful to know: an illegal idn, a = prohibited domain, exists but not that length (for an address registry), = etc=85. can we do this really with 404? We could, as long as the request method is 'GET', where you can return a = body with the appropriate message. It wouldn't work for HEAD as = described in my previous email. Francisco >=20 > marc. >=20 > Le 2012-03-19 =E0 04:14, Gavin Brown a =E9crit : >=20 >> 410 ("gone") might be suitable. It indicates a permanent error ("the = object does not exist, and never will on this server"). A server can = return a 404 for non-existent objects within its bailiwick, and 410 for = anything outside its bailiwick. >>=20 >> G. >>=20 >> --=20 >> Gavin Brown >> Chief Technology Officer >> CentralNic Ltd >> Innovative Registry Services for ccTLD and gTLD registries >> https://www.centralnic.com/ >>=20 >> CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with = company >> number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR. >>=20 >> On 17 Mar 2012, at 18:04, Stephen van Egmond = wrote: >>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 2012-03-17, at 1:52 PM, John Levine wrote: >>>=20 >>>> On the other hand, a web server does return a document with a 404 >>>> response, so I'd suggest that we encourage (SHOULD) servers to = return >>>> a document that makes it clear that the server understood the >>>> question, but doesn't have any data to answer it. >>>=20 >>> There are 99 other values in the 400-499 range that can be used to = indicate specific types of client request errors. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> weirds mailing list >>> weirds@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Mon Mar 19 12:39:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AE221E801A for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:39:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.485 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.485 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pz1oXGd+tigJ for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B397A21E8015 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D06551ECB41D for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 19:39:30 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 15:39:29 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 19:39:32 -0000 Dear colleagues, On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 09:31:42AM -0700, Francisco Obispo wrote: > At first JSON might seem like the best option, however, XML provides much more than just data exchange: If we want a rich XML-based proposal for something resembling a WHOIS replacement, why don't we use the one already developed? I frankly cannot see any reason whatever to do this with XML. Everything that we intend to return in WEIRDS is key/value data. I say use the form designed for that pattern, mandate it, and mandate no alternatives. The claim is that IRIS didn't get widely adopted because it was too complicated. If that explanation is right, then a simple system that is trivially deployed by people with my level of programming skill (i.e. very little) is the right answer. (To be honest, having read the WHOIS review team's report during last week's ICANN meeting, I have a suspicion that IRIS didn't get widely adopted partly because the policy people don't even know it exists. But that's a digression.) My experience with XML suggests that it is an excellent tool to give incompetent programmers when you want something that mostly works but is formally incorrect. Many people are very good at writing XML that works but that does not validate. That's not the same thing as writing good XML. The pressure on the business and policy sides of, at least, the names end of this problem remains that the data service is an expense. Existing running code that doesn't need changing is by definition cheaper to maintain than new code. We need to make that difference as small as logically possible, or there will be no change at all. XML does not minimize that expense, and therefore is (in my opinion) the wrong choice. The argument from EPP won't work, partly because the standard complaint about EPP is exactly that there are too many extensions with too many hairy little incompatibilities for the name registrar community to be happy. If we're supposed to scale the consumers of the protocol from "a few hundred registrars who at least know what a domain name is" to "2.6 billion Internet users", we're going to need something requiring less background knowledge than EPP. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Mar 20 05:35:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714A821F86F6 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 05:35:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.564 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9z18sb25w5cy for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 05:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og115.obsmtp.com (exprod6og115.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 201ED21F8685 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 05:35:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob115.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT2h5mfHC7XDfB4lb9hj+tTryUzE95wj+@postini.com; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 05:35:48 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2KCZWV8032023; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:35:36 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.139]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:35:32 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.245]) by dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:35:32 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:35:31 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andrew Sullivan , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBggEQHFG74r/mkyrpkeqMCDhLpZzHfnA Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:35:32 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2012 12:35:32.0548 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0EBA040:01CD0695] Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:35:51 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan > Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 3:39 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds- > icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt [snip] > The argument from EPP won't work, partly because the standard > complaint about EPP is exactly that there are too many extensions with > too many hairy little incompatibilities for the name registrar > community to be happy. If we're supposed to scale the consumers of > the protocol from "a few hundred registrars who at least know what a > domain name is" to "2.6 billion Internet users", we're going to need > something requiring less background knowledge than EPP. The extensibility complexity doesn't have to be exposed to Internet users. = I don't think that anonymous EPP is the right answer, but if all we're talk= ing about is reusing core EPP data structures with a RESTful query interfac= e the problem becomes more tractable. Scott From andy@arin.net Tue Mar 20 06:26:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB3B21F865A for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:26:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bLSxlP8BuFb1 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A9F21F8656 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 4770F21355D; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE97D21355D; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:26:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:26:15 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.55]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:26:24 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBggJrRtucAuk3UWeExkvSfc7J5ZzYt8AgAAONAA= Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:26:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <68402C90C480AD46BFF188F54156868E@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:26:26 -0000 On Mar 20, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > The extensibility complexity doesn't have to be exposed to Internet users= . I don't think that anonymous EPP is the right answer, but if all we're ta= lking about is reusing core EPP data structures with a RESTful query interf= ace the problem becomes more tractable. Internet users using Whois are a much broader set than those using EPP. The= y will not have received an SDK from a registry, and many will be using bas= h and wget and so they will be exposed to the complexities. We did an analy= sis of uses against our REST service and found that the overwhelming majori= ty of queries came from custom programs, the largest percentage being brows= er-based Javascript but also a good deal of Java, Python, ColdFusion, Perl = and PHP. -andy= From carlosm3011@gmail.com Tue Mar 20 06:42:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA32621F871B for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:42:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.193 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.193 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.194, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YsrNxg10dZeC for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EAAD21F871A for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhkk25 with SMTP id k25so50498yhk.31 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:42:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=VtnNLUCEsc85IYMB/O9n5bonJJgEQ2oBa6YQjhChDoo=; b=m1m0fXI4bidI3+rDZLV9Zcct2wDe4V+j1n+vq2su8/LVNZDEqWJ/E64uC7pg0Nk9mz rWUkgtFfF2pvN9C9WtQnZQzcPQNdvkfxN7kVPZPkX99swk8vxKPSmdc78+gJXEjaof3g l9lEmJxotUrXr35YKmfbfAX78nH8j//7y2bN1mYlxxB7azzM8KlKgfH2pLlQ+L0qJ5fG 0qrwm3MA/7EdzfrL6arCLfwq1j+XOrXoHb7ME8+1Q5i404NuFxyZSErbhnTtPBfi0cmw DGRABKYlmwOfYKE86rxrglOgv7SlGi0zfP3BbMuaGnos2I/y4HpsyG7iOZuFQo0D1YSp s27Q== Received: by 10.236.138.110 with SMTP id z74mr16256739yhi.114.1332250944653; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.local ([200.7.85.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i19sm1833618ani.7.2012.03.20.06.42.21 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 06:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:42:21 -0300 From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:42:25 -0000 Hi, On 3/20/12 10:26 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > On Mar 20, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > >> The extensibility complexity doesn't have to be exposed to Internet users. I don't think that anonymous EPP is the right answer, but if all we're talking about is reusing core EPP data structures with a RESTful query interface the problem becomes more tractable. > Internet users using Whois are a much broader set than those using EPP. They will not have received an SDK from a registry, and many will be using bash and wget and so they will be exposed to the complexities. We did an analysis of uses against our REST service and found that the overwhelming majority of queries came from custom programs, the largest percentage being browser-based Javascript but also a good deal of Java, Python, ColdFusion, Perl and PHP. +100. The universe of WHOIS users is a lot larger than the universe of EPP users. This is why I keep hammering the need of being able to use non-specialized clients. The bash+wget, or python/urllib2, or jQuery will be common use cases and will probably represent the largest share of queries. C. > > -andy > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Mar 20 07:15:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9D221F86DC for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:15:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.266 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.267, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gq95VTeeZ-yM for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og108.obsmtp.com (exprod6og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.21]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F8E421F86F2 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob108.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT2iQ5GnNNrCpib0xWpsLhNYTrEkDjri3@postini.com; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:15:05 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2KEExQ2002480; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:14:59 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.206]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:14:59 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:14:59 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "carlos@lacnic.net" , Andy Newton Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBggJrRtucAuk3UWeExkvSfc7J5ZzYt8AgAAONACAAAR3gP//xElw Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:14:59 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2012 14:14:59.0831 (UTC) FILETIME=[D5B2C070:01CD06A3] Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:15:06 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo [mailto:carlosm3011@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:42 AM > To: Andy Newton > Cc: Hollenbeck, Scott; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds- > icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >=20 > Hi, >=20 > On 3/20/12 10:26 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > > On Mar 20, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > > > >> The extensibility complexity doesn't have to be exposed to Internet > users. I don't think that anonymous EPP is the right answer, but if all > we're talking about is reusing core EPP data structures with a RESTful > query interface the problem becomes more tractable. > > Internet users using Whois are a much broader set than those using > EPP. They will not have received an SDK from a registry, and many will > be using bash and wget and so they will be exposed to the complexities. > We did an analysis of uses against our REST service and found that the > overwhelming majority of queries came from custom programs, the largest > percentage being browser-based Javascript but also a good deal of Java, > Python, ColdFusion, Perl and PHP. > +100. The universe of WHOIS users is a lot larger than the universe of > EPP users. This is why I keep hammering the need of being able to use > non-specialized clients. The bash+wget, or python/urllib2, or jQuery > will be common use cases and will probably represent the largest share > of queries. I'm talking about XML-formatted data blobs, *not* the query/response protoc= ol, and thus no specialized client is required. The data will need to be re= turned to the client in some encoded form, and if that form happens to be X= ML it makes *a lot* of sense to reuse existing data structures. Scott From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Tue Mar 20 07:35:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E99521F8498 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.113, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cPw5dKo05Iy6 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAF9721F8496 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 548A71ECB41D for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:35:05 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:35:05 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120320143504.GE47136@mail.yitter.info> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:35:06 -0000 On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 02:14:59PM +0000, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > > I'm talking about XML-formatted data blobs, *not* the query/response protocol, and thus no specialized client is required. The data will need to be returned to the client in some encoded form, and if that form happens to be XML it makes *a lot* of sense to reuse existing data structures. > I would agree if we were building a tool to query EPP-based registries. But that's not the goal: some registries aren't using EPP at all. Moreover, the reuse of those existing data structures presupposes that they're the same. Last I checked, for instance, .cz was using EPP but had even replaced the "stock" EPP mappings for (e.g.) contacts because they were unhappy with them. And over on the provreg list, we just witnessed a complaint about the DS vs. DNSKEY interface for DNSSEC records because of the usual "too many options" complaint. If the goal is to replace the existing WHOIS with something that is reliably parsable and still re-use the existing registration data structures, then the totality of heterogeneity on the registration side will need to be reproduced on the query side. I think that would be a bad thing. So, we have to come to a common format, and if we do there's no obvious benefit of XML to anything else. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From andy@arin.net Tue Mar 20 07:49:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6079521F859F for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:49:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a9m-3hPwqyy6 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8579D21F858D for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 1547116527A; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4869165246; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:49:47 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.55]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:49:56 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBggJrRtucAuk3UWeExkvSfc7J5ZzYt8AgAAONACAAAR3gP//xElwgABOlYA= Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:49:55 +0000 Message-ID: <436CD0A5-AF50-4BCE-9445-DA0AA72F9B23@arin.net> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1A4C39EABF79A54CB9679B44A50B5CA1@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "carlos@lacnic.net" , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:49:58 -0000 On Mar 20, 2012, at 10:14 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >> On 3/20/12 10:26 AM, Andy Newton wrote: >>> On Mar 20, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >>>=20 >>>> The extensibility complexity doesn't have to be exposed to Internet [..snip..] > I'm talking about XML-formatted data blobs, *not* the query/response prot= ocol, and thus no specialized client is required. The data will need to be = returned to the client in some encoded form, and if that form happens to be= XML it makes *a lot* of sense to reuse existing data structures. For all but a few Internet users, it will not be re-use. Speaking of complexity, I think I now understand Peter Koch's statement at = the last BoF about putting IRIS over HTTP. If you look at the base namespac= e for the DNRD draft, it does exactly what the base namespace in IRIS does.= So why not re-use that? Actually, the DNRD draft uses twice the number of = XML namespaces as IRIS/DREG, so it is even more complex. Not that I'm advoc= ating this solution, just pointing out the juxtaposition. -andy= From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Mar 20 08:28:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77D0721F85A8 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:28:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c8RzYq5WLNFe for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og101.obsmtp.com (exprod6og101.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA0B21F85A4 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob101.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT2iiCTsyiZRuu4Cxr9qB0AxMFPwfwN1I@postini.com; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:28:13 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2KFS6xA007981; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:28:06 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.206]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:28:06 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:28:06 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andy Newton Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBggJW33f+opWUUqOp8MVfCEMXJZzYt8AgAAONACAAAR3gP//xElwgABOlYD//7+O4A== Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:28:05 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C35AC@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <20120312220650.4856.14618.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <436CD0A5-AF50-4BCE-9445-DA0AA72F9B23@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <436CD0A5-AF50-4BCE-9445-DA0AA72F9B23@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2012 15:28:06.0469 (UTC) FILETIME=[0C569750:01CD06AE] Cc: "carlos@lacnic.net" , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:28:14 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Newton [mailto:andy@arin.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:50 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott > Cc: carlos@lacnic.net; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds- > icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >=20 >=20 > On Mar 20, 2012, at 10:14 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >=20 > >> On 3/20/12 10:26 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > >>> On Mar 20, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > >>> > >>>> The extensibility complexity doesn't have to be exposed to > Internet >=20 > [..snip..] >=20 > > I'm talking about XML-formatted data blobs, *not* the query/response > protocol, and thus no specialized client is required. The data will > need to be returned to the client in some encoded form, and if that > form happens to be XML it makes *a lot* of sense to reuse existing data > structures. >=20 > For all but a few Internet users, it will not be re-use. If we're replacing whois the user experience is going to be completely new = no matter what. If the provider experience is also completely new the (re)d= evelopment cost is going to be an issue. Anyway, back to my original point: the complexity of EPP extensions is *not= * something that would need to be exposed to users of this new service. Scott From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Tue Mar 20 08:35:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA5A21F8594 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:35:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.113, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XxHAihfAsmdW for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7F4921F858F for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D2681ECB41D for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:35:38 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:35:38 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120320153538.GJ47136@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <436CD0A5-AF50-4BCE-9445-DA0AA72F9B23@arin.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C35AC@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C35AC@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:35:42 -0000 On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 03:28:05PM +0000, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > > Anyway, back to my original point: the complexity of EPP extensions is *not* something that would need to be exposed to users of this new service. > This is actually the claim that I either thing is wrong or else that I don't understand. (Whenever it's a possibility, the latter is the most likely explanation, I grant.) Here's the problem I see: Suppose we have two different contact mappings, for instance, or an extension to the standard contact mapping. If the goal is in part to provide a predictable machine-readable response, then there are four possibilities: 1. The two mappings, or the standard mapping + extension, need all to be mapped into a single structure so that clients can be prepared for it. This is not simple re-use of EPP. 2. There needs to me a meta-language that allows interpretation of the different mappings such that they can all be understood by the client. This is no different than (1) except for where and when the remapping is done. 3. We throw away anything that doesn't meet the standard EPP mapping, in which case we're only providing a lookup service for EPP and not for anything else. 4. Anything that we don't know about is returned as a blob, in which case the goal is not met. I don't see what alternatives to the above there are, and none of them makes simple re-use of EPP mappings without additional work and the exposure of the grotty corners of EPP extensions. What am I missing? Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Mar 20 08:40:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94DB21F856D for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:40:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.558 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.041, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hr0gbQDFMX5c for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og105.obsmtp.com (exprod6og105.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.189]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1540421F85C4 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:40:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob105.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT2ik4Aenyl/bzTgC1uizeyFoPiPI63yj@postini.com; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:40:18 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2KFeGbG008388; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:40:16 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.139]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:40:15 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.245]) by dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:40:16 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:40:15 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andrew Sullivan , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNBqaoW33f+opWUUqOp8MVfCEMXJZzTxGw Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:40:15 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C360D@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120320143504.GE47136@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120320143504.GE47136@mail.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2012 15:40:16.0032 (UTC) FILETIME=[BF311200:01CD06AF] Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:40:26 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:35 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds- > icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt [snip] > So, we have to come to a common > format, and if we do there's no obvious benefit of XML to anything > else. The perceived benefit to some number of service providers is that they alre= ady have software and systems in place to process XML. Scott=20 From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Tue Mar 20 08:47:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0C321F85AD for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:47:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.487 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.487 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.112, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cEDXFYAmsNGM for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153E321F85A8 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 08:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 52C551ECB41D for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:47:14 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:47:12 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120320154711.GL47136@mail.yitter.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: [weirds] Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:47:16 -0000 Dear colleagues, I realized that, because we'd already agreed that the plan was to try to nail down a charter in Paris, I hadn't actually uploaded an agenda. This is my fault, and I apologise. I have done so. I understand there is another charter proposal on its way, and when it arrives I'll update the agenda. The agenda is available at http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/agenda/agenda-83-weirds.txt Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From vesely@tana.it Tue Mar 20 09:24:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275CF21F85A8 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:24:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.656 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zTv4bQG6CPIT for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (mail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4976E21F8595 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:24:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332260670; bh=I/LpuwXIWRMrZX8DLFKntjvMBKcrbZqo9FoIdc8VHWc=; l=870; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fky36zkXasO+AU8oxSQA/y1rgWH0dO4UJVakAX8AlIJFeZQ7baD9083+FT6yEoByO hxObMtVP5d6BEtA7uH1b8wWCHj0f4ObeJVIFx6t8xdl/gTZaszdmFK2J3yuFxmyaeZ vfz+purquMDxMj7hEViQloWgKJnvtbESYvm+IVKg= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:24:30 +0100 id 00000000005DC03F.000000004F68AF3E.00001ACF Message-ID: <4F68AF3D.8080504@tana.it> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:24:29 +0100 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <436CD0A5-AF50-4BCE-9445-DA0AA72F9B23@arin.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C35AC@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120320153538.GJ47136@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120320153538.GJ47136@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:24:32 -0000 On 20/Mar/12 16:35, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > 3. We throw away anything that doesn't meet the standard EPP > mapping, in which case we're only providing a lookup service for > EPP and not for anything else. This seems to me the only valid alternative, assuming that those EPP extensions are there for a reason, and that WEIRDS' goal is a unified format. It has to be verified that the remaining data is sufficient. As for not exposing XML details, actual responses don't need to be XML. Even the spec can contain the JSON (or text) layout. In this case, the only advantage of reusing EPP is the ability to trivially compute what is the data that won't get thrown away after considering all registrars that use EPP. ("Trivially", in this context, means without the need of local committees purposely created to expatiate on the underlying semantics.) From fobispo@isc.org Tue Mar 20 09:43:18 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B9021F8713 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:43:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RQnuMmHDHxoo for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C7EE21F8709 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D2795F9891; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:43:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8B8D9216C31; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:43:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <4F68AF3D.8080504@tana.it> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:43:00 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <03FD87D6-8ECB-42DD-BE65-36E0DA3174F5@isc.org> References: <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <436CD0A5-AF50-4BCE-9445-DA0AA72F9B23@arin.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C35AC@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120320153538.GJ47136@mail.yitter.info> <4F68AF3D.8080504@tana.it> To: Alessandro Vesely X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:43:18 -0000 On Mar 20, 2012, at 9:24 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > Even the spec can contain the JSON (or text) layout. In this > case, the only advantage of reusing EPP is the ability to trivially > compute what is the data that won't get thrown away after considering > all registrars that use EPP. ("Trivially", in this context, means > without the need of local committees purposely created to expatiate on > the underlying semantics.) Unless we go back to plain ASCII text, you will need tools to parse any = of the formats in question. Unless we incorporate some sort of signaling mechanism within JSON to = simulate namespaces, otherwise, expectations will not match reality when = parsing through some of those answers. I think I've made this point in other emails, but let me reiterate it.. I'm a big fan of JSON, and I use it all the time for inter-server = communication. However, the reason why I feel comfortable using it, is = because I control both the sender and receiver. When any of sender or receiver are third parties, you need to provide = means for checking that the data is consistent and valid. Of course you = can do this in JSON, but it requires significant more developing effort = than in XML. I'm not against it, and I think that there's room for multiple output = formats associated to HTTP "content-type"s.=20 Best regards, Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Tue Mar 20 10:52:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D146C21F8532 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QycepSM5F+xn for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919C521F8531 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2KExGFp066821 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:59:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F68C3DF.3040609@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:52:31 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5BEE9B@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120320143504.GE47136@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C360D@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C360D@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:52:40 -0000 On 3/20/12 11:40 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > The perceived benefit to some number of service providers is that they already have software and systems in place to process XML. Scott, Outside of ICANN registrars and registries, no service providers could* be using live EPP connections presently. Processing XML is not a unique property of ICANN contractual parties, nor of those plus the few other non-contractual registries and their corresponding registrars, some of whom are ICANN contractual parties, just to make things more complicated. So the claim of benefit of using XML is less than identical with current use of (payload in XML syntax) EPP. Moreover, accreditation with ICANN, and therefore access to contracted (and some other) registries using EPP, is on the order of $1k per year in fees, and service over EPP to a registry may be obtained from one or more of the nearly 2k entities** currently holding accreditation for a fee. I know there are XML consumers out there, I simply have no idea why their syntax and access requirements exist independently of those we captured back in the original grrp-reqs document. Eric * OK, two parties neither of which is a "registry" or a "registrar" in the ICANN sense could be using EPP syntax to shuffle data back and forth, outside of any unit test harness run by an EPP implementer. ** Most of which exist simply to sell threads to the drop pool anyway and who's owners could just as well serve other "legitimate" interests with no change to access policy or adverse scaling consequence. From andy@arin.net Tue Mar 20 10:56:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D5321F85DD for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:56:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nmPsx2N5G3Ih for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 397D021F85D5 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id CF8F116514A; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9B01650CB for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:55:50 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:56:00 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBsK1rlZgTHz/KkyCppqrRFwQfQ== Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:55:58 +0000 Message-ID: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_57C5226BE2634DB3835E979EAE5F8F52arinnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:56:09 -0000 --_002_57C5226BE2634DB3835E979EAE5F8F52arinnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, As we go into our second BoF and likely final venue to convince the IETF to= form a working group, I wish to propose a compromise with regard to the ch= arter and the charter discussion about numbers before names and the various= other threads in hopes to bring finality to some issues. Attached you will= find a charter proposal based on the proposal originally written by Andrew= Sullivan. This charter proposal removes the numbers before names restricti= on that resulted from our first BoF in exchange for using the number regist= ry input documents as a pattern going forward and explicitly noting the nee= d for IDN data model support in the name registry specification. Going into the BoF with a charter proposal that reflects our ability to com= promise would likely do us good in convincing the IETF to form a working gr= oup on this topic, and it would be beneficial as a common starting point. -andy --_002_57C5226BE2634DB3835E979EAE5F8F52arinnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; name="weirds_charter.txt" Content-Description: weirds_charter.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="weirds_charter.txt"; size=4217; creation-date="Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:55:58 GMT"; modification-date="Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:55:58 GMT" Content-ID: <4140D0CC14F9FC4E867A72826FEC1204@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V2ViIEV4dGVuc2libGUgSW50ZXJuZXQgUmVnaXN0cmF0aW9uIERhdGEgU2VydmljZSAod2VpcmRz KQ0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLQ0KDQpEUkFGVCBDaGFydGVyIHYgMjAxMi0wMy0yMGFsbg0KDQpDaGFpcnM6DQogICAgVEJE DQoNCkFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBBcmVhIERpcmVjdG9yczoNCiAgICBQZXRlIFJlc25pY2ssIFBldGVy 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dRrfjKmeUASy for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4404221F85D5 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:13:27 -0700 From: Steve Sheng To: Andy Newton , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:13:27 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: Ac0GxSWt0MfJ/WCKQxWW6VKVdZPVfw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:13:29 -0000 Thank you Andy, I read through this charter and am comfortable with it. So I support this charter. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Andy Newton Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 10:55:58 -0700 To: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: [weirds] a charter offering compromise >All, > >As we go into our second BoF and likely final venue to convince the IETF >to form a working group, I wish to propose a compromise with regard to >the charter and the charter discussion about numbers before names and the >various other threads in hopes to bring finality to some issues. Attached >you will find a charter proposal based on the proposal originally written >by Andrew Sullivan. This charter proposal removes the numbers before >names restriction that resulted from our first BoF in exchange for using >the number registry input documents as a pattern going forward and >explicitly noting the need for IDN data model support in the name >registry specification. > >Going into the BoF with a charter proposal that reflects our ability to >compromise would likely do us good in convincing the IETF to form a >working group on this topic, and it would be beneficial as a common >starting point. > >-andy > > From vesely@tana.it Tue Mar 20 11:27:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC8221F8533 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:27:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.656 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MKs7TcOYrvK0 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (mail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B767221F84F5 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:27:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332268077; bh=4bz/diqQYvYHLgPCyTiP2hJsudSHbgKsDTWeFq0UTDQ=; l=1357; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=WRPQjeyjr9YAn1gb3w3fLExUEukRF/+jb7QhE+9uCumIXwAeDpD461fLTlgc6gbS2 3ltp6PZM9ITnFXBh9wRMeFQl85YiLEgc/6oVSfM42Cyx6PM4H0pfgllQ2o+f4V7xz/ Oirkw722u8g2bYD1/jSY52/td6bRRjeW2EcI0P3E= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:27:57 +0100 id 00000000005DC035.000000004F68CC2D.00003833 Message-ID: <4F68CC2D.5090709@tana.it> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:27:57 +0100 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120319193928.GI45974@mail.yitter.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3154@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <4F25A703-4800-42A5-87CE-1E3BCDCA98A8@arin.net> <4F68893D.2090401@gmail.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3330@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <436CD0A5-AF50-4BCE-9445-DA0AA72F9B23@arin.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C35AC@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <20120320153538.GJ47136@mail.yitter.info> <4F68AF3D.8080504@tana.it> <03FD87D6-8ECB-42DD-BE65-36E0DA3174F5@isc.org> In-Reply-To: <03FD87D6-8ECB-42DD-BE65-36E0DA3174F5@isc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:27:59 -0000 On 20/Mar/12 17:43, Francisco Obispo wrote: > > Unless we incorporate some sort of signaling mechanism within JSON > to simulate namespaces, otherwise, expectations will not match > reality when parsing through some of those answers. If results can be returned in XML, which I didn't mean to exclude, I agree a IANA registered names space is a good idea. However, the I-D uses specific namespaces for registrar, contacts, hosts, and similar items. That seems to be meant to map, at least conceptually, a variety of EPP-like extensions. Doesn't that defy the purpose of automating simple, repetitive tasks? > When any of sender or receiver are third parties, you need to > provide means for checking that the data is consistent and valid. > Of course you can do this in JSON, but it requires significant more > developing effort than in XML. For a simple routine, unaware of registry-specific idiosyncrasies, all the consistency that has to be checked is that variables of expected names get the expected type of value. Failure to comply just results in errors or exceptions. > I'm not against it, and I think that there's room for multiple > output formats associated to HTTP "content-type"s. Programs that are able to cope with multiple, run-time determined schemata are obviously not simple. Isn't that beyond our target? From Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz Tue Mar 20 12:05:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B90E21F85AA for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:05:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.346 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.346 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.253, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RsFgbi38K6Qu for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD2A521F85A5 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:05:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from work-laptop-2 (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2KJ5PX3006822; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:05:26 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Received: from [10.31.200.237] by work-laptop-2 (PGP Universal service); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:05:26 -0400 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by work-laptop-2 on Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:05:26 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:01:05 -0400 To: Andy Newton From: Edward Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 10.20.30.4 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:05:29 -0000 Again, coming late to the game, the last paragraph doesn't make sense to me. # As the number registries have more experience with these services # and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in # more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working # group are to work on specifications for both number and name registries # using the fashion and pattern of the name registry input documents as # a basis going forward. Is this needed? (I ask, again, noting I'm late to the game.) I don't think it is a "goal" to "work on specifications" in any particular manner, the goal is to get a final result. And I'm confused by "the number registries have more experience" leading to "using the ... the name registry input documents". I would think the "name" in there should be "number." There seems to be a non-sequitur in there somewhere. Until that point the charter seemed clean. I re-read the last paragraph 4 times because I couldn't make sense of it. Perhaps there's background discussions that are driving this, but they aren't apparent. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 2012...time to reuse those 1984 calendars! From msk@cloudmark.com Tue Mar 20 12:09:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7AFF21F85B8 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:09:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pQnhtXe2gpKQ for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A7021F85B5 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by EXCH-HTCAS901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2966:6846:8d89:4681%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:09:35 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBsK1rlZgTHz/KkyCppqrRFwQfZZz/22A//+MdsA= Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:09:35 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928094806@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:09:36 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Edward Lewis > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 12:01 PM > To: Andy Newton > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise >=20 > I don't think it is a "goal" to "work on specifications" in any > particular manner, the goal is to get a final result. Yes, it should be something like "to produce standards-track specifications= ", although one could argue that event that is redundant. > And I'm confused by "the number registries have more experience" > leading to "using the ... the name registry input documents". I would > think the "name" in there should be "number." There seems to be a non- > sequitur in there somewhere. +1. > Until that point the charter seemed clean. I re-read the last > paragraph 4 times because I couldn't make sense of it. Perhaps there's > background discussions that are driving this, but they aren't apparent. Background discussions, if they're happening, don't advance things as well = as talking about them on the list. Among other things, off-list chatter lo= oks to observers either like attrition or cabal work, both of which are thi= ngs a fledgling working group doesn't need. -MSK From Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz Tue Mar 20 12:20:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB0121F85A3 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:20:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.355 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.355 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.244, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q-UvS2i0BiT4 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:20:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA13D21F8555 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from work-laptop-2 (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2KJK7jB006893; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:20:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Received: from [10.31.200.237] by work-laptop-2 (PGP Universal service); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:20:08 -0400 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by work-laptop-2 on Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:20:08 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928094806@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928094806@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:20:06 -0400 To: "weirds@ietf.org" From: Edward Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 10.20.30.4 Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:20:10 -0000 At 19:09 +0000 3/20/12, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >Background discussions, if they're happening, don't advance things >as well as talking about them on the list. Among other things, >off-list chatter looks to observers either like attrition or cabal >work, both of which are things a fledgling working group doesn't >need. I didn't mean to insinuate cabal-like gossip. I meant that not having been part of the WEIRDS discussions until a few weeks ago and not being present at BoF1, if there was any reason to include a paragraph dividing this into "names" and "numbers" - the charter doesn't describe the reason(s). The last paragraph seems to "come out of the blue." -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 2012...time to reuse those 1984 calendars! From andy@arin.net Tue Mar 20 12:20:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03EDD21F8643 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:20:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FFNqkGw5hjoo for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DBB121F8637 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 11434164F5F; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:20:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF6C164F5D; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:20:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:20:05 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:20:13 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Edward Lewis Thread-Topic: [weirds] a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBsK1rlZgTHz/KkyCppqrRFwQfZZzzSKAgAAFVwA= Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:20:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <312BAEFAF2190245A5EFEE9EE4EF8FE2@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:20:22 -0000 On Mar 20, 2012, at 3:01 PM, Edward Lewis wrote: > And I'm confused by "the number registries have more experience" leading = to "using the ... the name registry input documents". I would think the "n= ame" in there should be "number." There seems to be a non-sequitur in ther= e somewhere. That's a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out. It should be the number regis= try input documents. -andy= From andy@hxr.us Tue Mar 20 12:32:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C230C21F85CC for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:32:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ddfnKk-L5Td5 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F88921F85C4 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so470997ghb.31 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:32:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=RbkALhAJ6iAG34UWpD9qd28rxoLVuLVjUin3Og6Tra4=; b=W47S7HlS5IG/2XdLkP4Pls0yugoj6plSqbDV4Pjus3JDWHHHq8GKkrGe9ELPEQW/ij nkh8cRCwb99B0QSvaV2zU+0sgHXqFqnQV2gb+HnwjNO0pLtXfubH+LhWts8m1kX2GL3R HHySxMrrDVHXTQnYYO/x0lSwZmromAY1LG6IsaQSAlMYu0SSG7xUUI8PEzy7m4DUREcK bg7NoAjFt2jI3poQBnkilHwoJ0M65TbzAQcLvdVHZ+s1qOBJITxRZy+lQ9HIdDtEz26K yIT2a1k/4Z87q0g971wC4g+NZ9iPOF88oNWQRVk54SiWaym8NhLf5kxIKMT3fAJmpmTb 1mjw== Received: by 10.236.79.195 with SMTP id i43mr1217748yhe.53.1332271938801; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:500:4:34::156? ([2001:500:4:34::156]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q5sm3022996anm.21.2012.03.20.12.32.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:32:13 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928094806@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Edward Lewis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkRNNoNGONgSIHY9Z9Gsf6/USUSAMEu166g4RW0wZgz8SIM51FP54YDVmXdLbnXTPK5FXml Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:32:19 -0000 On Mar 20, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Edward Lewis wrote: > I meant that not having been part of the WEIRDS discussions until a = few weeks ago and not being present at BoF1, if there was any reason to = include a paragraph dividing this into "names" and "numbers" - the = charter doesn't describe the reason(s). Yes, that probably doesn't make sense without context. The result of = BoF1 was that there was consensus for numbers work but not names work. = As a result a charter was drafted that reflected working on numbers = first then names which resulted in a long thread and no obvious = conclusion. At least that's how I remember it. Others may recall = differently. -and= From avri@acm.org Tue Mar 20 12:32:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1731B21F85E5 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:32:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XiDvgug6w9xI for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omr6.networksolutionsemail.com (omr6.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1261621F85C4 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cm-omr1 (mail.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.50]) by omr6.networksolutionsemail.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id q2KJWV0A002327 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:32:32 -0400 X-Authenticated-IP: 190.60.238.91 Received: from [190.60.238.91] ([190.60.238.91:35210] helo=[10.20.0.132]) by cm-omr1 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.41 r(31179/31189)) with ESMTP id 67/DF-07348-F4BD86F4; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:32:31 -0400 References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Avri Doria Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:32:36 -0500 To: "weirds@ietf.org" Message-ID: <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: avri@acm.org List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:32:34 -0000 Hi, I think the compromise document it's pretty good am would like to offer one relatively small, I think/hope, change. Modify As the number registries have more experience with these services and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working group are to work on specifications for both number and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the name registry input documents as a basis going forward. To As the number registries have more experience with these services and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working group are to work on specifications for both number and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the name registry input documents as an initial basis. I.e. substitue "as a basis going forward" with "as an initial basis" Avri Andy Newton wrote: >All, > >As we go into our second BoF and likely final venue to convince the >IETF to form a working group, I wish to propose a compromise with >regard to the charter and the charter discussion about numbers before >names and the various other threads in hopes to bring finality to some >issues. Attached you will find a charter proposal based on the proposal >originally written by Andrew Sullivan. This charter proposal removes >the numbers before names restriction that resulted from our first BoF >in exchange for using the number registry input documents as a pattern >going forward and explicitly noting the need for IDN data model support >in the name registry specification. > >Going into the BoF with a charter proposal that reflects our ability to >compromise would likely do us good in convincing the IETF to form a >working group on this topic, and it would be beneficial as a common >starting point. > >-andy > > >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From andy@arin.net Tue Mar 20 12:35:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7669021F85D9 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:35:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EzYY6yIJGsuF for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19C721F85C4 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 595A6164F4A; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B3C164F2D; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:34:19 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:34:52 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "" Thread-Topic: [weirds] a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBsK1rlZgTHz/KkyCppqrRFwQfZZz1fAAgAAAoYA= Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:34:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:35:15 -0000 On Mar 20, 2012, at 3:32 PM, Avri Doria wrote: > substitue "as a basis going forward" with "as an initial basis" Thanks. I think that reads better. -andy From sm@resistor.net Tue Mar 20 12:50:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E388A21F861C for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:50:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.629 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.629 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id STlgrgt68VC9 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF75721F8623 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2KJoBjo012091 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:50:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1332273015; i=@resistor.net; bh=IPyIRjR5sB3O9f0Qtzu89TdFV0dLw5cRDtcqUm5tRZA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=UxIdAttCnBAhuu1cfrl+7sxyN/80ne9FDhDxwZ3Eg5pZ5gUbPPSmYDQjkKJTNIsha l8TvVB/guZ1hbcGc3Bt3CRjNuOmJXpLJJ2ysO6PwqGiByZikoCh6o5snrzLmuQRrfs t1d4KvxWvq86WMyO4k+RM0LaOCXN5Zp/6zufuPuk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1332273015; i=@resistor.net; bh=IPyIRjR5sB3O9f0Qtzu89TdFV0dLw5cRDtcqUm5tRZA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=1VKxP2E3rDgrnyma3F+Q4fCgN3fzMm3N4fyTO1JDXPznawtQSA0SxOoO1Q6wgFq+n 4YL/EoOPMjrmznQ3W0VyllwpY7JYuSpbMV9PRlt17b9dK2+6n467yvMqLadJU0YvoU hdFEvQg/rh5HWn/tuzOX8TzMc8FOo5wIjrS1978Q= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:50:00 -0700 To: weirds@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:50:18 -0000 At 12:32 20-03-2012, Avri Doria wrote: > using the fashion and pattern of the name registry input documents as > an initial basis. Which draft(s) are to be used as input documents? Regards, -sm From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Mar 20 12:59:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7288D21F84FE for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:59:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.559 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YKhfBcGYl5n8 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og112.obsmtp.com (exprod6og112.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.29]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D6C21F84FC for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob112.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT2jhmxaEL9XPJFfT/fP2n6tL1ocoNDlr@postini.com; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:59:24 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.138]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2KJxJnO016688; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:59:22 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.139]) by dul1wnexcn01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:59:18 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.245]) by dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:59:19 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:59:18 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andy Newton , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBsK1rlZgTHz/KkyCppqrRFwQfZZzmimQ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:59:18 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3B3F@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2012 19:59:19.0389 (UTC) FILETIME=[EFC120D0:01CD06D3] Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:59:25 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Andy Newton > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:56 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: [weirds] a charter offering compromise >=20 > All, >=20 > As we go into our second BoF and likely final venue to convince the > IETF to form a working group, I wish to propose a compromise with > regard to the charter and the charter discussion about numbers before > names and the various other threads in hopes to bring finality to some > issues. Attached you will find a charter proposal based on the proposal > originally written by Andrew Sullivan. This charter proposal removes > the numbers before names restriction that resulted from our first BoF > in exchange for using the number registry input documents as a pattern > going forward and explicitly noting the need for IDN data model support > in the name registry specification. >=20 > Going into the BoF with a charter proposal that reflects our ability to > compromise would likely do us good in convincing the IETF to form a > working group on this topic, and it would be beneficial as a common > starting point. Modulo the changes already suggested I like the approach. Scott From andy@arin.net Tue Mar 20 12:59:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA55E21F8597 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:59:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44u95dUQRPzs for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419EF21F8585 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id D8DDA164F60; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E216164F5E; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:59:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:59:30 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:59:40 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: SM Thread-Topic: [weirds] a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBsK1rlZgTHz/KkyCppqrRFwQfZZz1fAAgAAE3QCAAAKygA== Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:59:39 +0000 Message-ID: <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7F221B4907E9C54F889D4A9313B0BB69@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:59:45 -0000 On Mar 20, 2012, at 3:50 PM, SM wrote: > Which draft(s) are to be used as input documents? Again, sorry for the confusion. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-respons= e/ Also, there was no intent to exclude Murray's requirements draft as an inpu= t document, which is here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements/ Or the DNRD draft as the query portion is similar. -andy= From andy@hxr.us Tue Mar 20 13:24:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C1A721F853A for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:24:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.391 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.391 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.208, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XLawrzM-iWwe for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f172.google.com (mail-gx0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887A821F84F0 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ggmi1 with SMTP id i1so526551ggm.31 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:24:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:mime-version:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:to :references:message-id:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=F+qepgZOf0DwhHlqBgFYufIYOz37Z+1r6Nruzn4Vs2c=; b=MmBMskzOuKVU3276g2Ynrw3c8N1rDktMY3pZfB7iCcG7eYYhilXfG2PVomKbkVhgey a02O7XCZqNSoTAVFWW6gXY/DmsqaSM3QAUzx5G7VkwYwYroar2MibtEkM6mmGDmnJmZ4 vpABnk0KtmMiAxpdz7C0E1R83+BIB/qGSGcuD2HYaAvAS+WtBuv0Rh4yKgLyKzzUuS0x hnmzQ/c7T2H3GU442MbfX/EV4obkfMGVUkIx4keIq3rFd6EpBYx7eMdBYK3c6dtEL7lx mGQe8RpJD9OONxCeb1W3bCOftZRIaJ2Y3BzRRbG36vE9/WkqwJpoiK8KEw6xwSJDJW4w W1Cw== Received: by 10.224.174.72 with SMTP id s8mr1610304qaz.67.1332275095158; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tapvpn1u-156.arin.net (core.arin.net. [192.149.252.11]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dm8sm4388809qab.18.2012.03.20.13.24.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:24:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Newton Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ADE6A81F-6C0E-4170-828F-1B488A3C10B8" Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:24:50 -0400 In-Reply-To: <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> Message-Id: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl1y+TwYLhL2XKfg9xnR8nfCmPwDxlm9xknn0GLppDjaKUFLGl+Xfrj5Z5/iSiPLppwuTur Subject: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:24:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ADE6A81F-6C0E-4170-828F-1B488A3C10B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry for the confusion. Here's a revision based on the feedback so far. -andy --Apple-Mail=_ADE6A81F-6C0E-4170-828F-1B488A3C10B8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=weirds_charter.txt Content-Type: text/plain; x-unix-mode=0644; name="weirds_charter.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (weirds) ---------------------------------------------------------- DRAFT Charter v 2012-03-20aln.2 Chairs: TBD Applications Area Directors: Pete Resnick, Peter Saint-Andre, and Barry Leiba Description of Working Group: Internet registries for both number resources and names have historically maintained a lookup service to permit public access to some portion of the registry database. Most registries offer the service via WHOIS (RFC 3912), with additional services being offered via world wide web pages, bulk downloads, and other services like RPSL (RFC 2622). WHOIS has never been internationalized. In the absence of formal specification, ad hoc solutions to signal internationalized registration data have been adopted and deployed. Providing a standards-base solution that scales well could minimize further proliferation of ad hoc solutions. WHOIS also has no data model: replies are basically just free-form text. This means that processing of WHOIS output amounts to "screen-scraping", with specialized handlers for every service. Many of the domain name registries do share a basic common output format, although the addition of data elements changes the output and may cause problems for parsers of the data. The WHOIS protocol does not offer any differential service; it cannot differentiate among clients to offer different subsets of information or to allow different access rates to it. Various attempts to solve the limitations of WHOIS have met with mixed success. The most recent of these was IRIS (RFC 3891). IRIS has not been a successful replacement for WHOIS. The primary technical reason for this appears to be the complexity of IRIS, the fact that it builds upon many available technologies that in the aggregate form a complex system. There may also exist non-technical reasons, but they lie in areas upon which the IETF does not pass judgement. In recent years, ARIN and RIPE NCC have fielded production RESTful web services to serve WHOIS data, and each has met with success. It is widely believed that this simpler re-use of Web technologies familiar to modern web developers has enabled this success. The purpose of this working group is to broaden the use of RESTful web services by achieving simple and common URI patterns and responses amenable to all number resource and domain name registries. This Working Group shall determine the general needs of such a service, and standardize a single data framework. That framework shall be used to encapsulate objects that could form part of an answer. The framework shall be for data to be delivered via a RESTful data service using HTTP (optionally using TLS). The data shall have one mandatory format, though the working group may consider other optional formats. The overall effort will be broadly aligned with a subset of the Cross Registry Internet Service Protocol (CRISP) Requirements (RFC 3707), but with the explicit additional goals of producing a simple, easy-to-implement protocol, supporting internationalized registration data and, specifically for name registries, a data model capturing the needs of internationalized domain names. As the number registries have more experience with these services and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working group are to produce standards-track specifications for both number and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the number registry input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response, as an initial basis. Milestones November 2012 Draft WEIRDS requirements to IESG for publication as Informational RFC. April 2013 Draft WEIRDS specification for number resources to IESG for publication on the standards track. July 2013 Draft WEIRDS specifications for name registries to IESG for publication on the standards track. --Apple-Mail=_ADE6A81F-6C0E-4170-828F-1B488A3C10B8-- From fneves@registro.br Tue Mar 20 13:34:46 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B099D21F8584 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:34:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.446 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.446 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.154, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pYVMRjl-OJDN for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDF8B21F8581 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C0EADE0442; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:34:44 -0300 (BRT) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:34:44 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120320203444.GB57784@registro.br> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:34:46 -0000 Andy, I like and support this proposed charter, Fred On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 04:24:50PM -0400, Andy Newton wrote: > Sorry for the confusion. Here's a revision based on the feedback so far. > > -andy > > Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (weirds) > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > DRAFT Charter v 2012-03-20aln.2 > > Chairs: > TBD > > Applications Area Directors: > Pete Resnick, Peter Saint-Andre, and Barry Leiba > > Description of Working Group: > > Internet registries for both number resources and names have > historically maintained a lookup service to permit public access > to some portion of the registry database. Most registries offer > the service via WHOIS (RFC 3912), with additional services being > offered via world wide web pages, bulk downloads, and other > services like RPSL (RFC 2622). > > WHOIS has never been internationalized. In the absence of formal > specification, ad hoc solutions to signal internationalized > registration data have been adopted and deployed. Providing a > standards-base solution that scales well could minimize further > proliferation of ad hoc solutions. > > WHOIS also has no data model: replies are basically just free-form > text. This means that processing of WHOIS output amounts to > "screen-scraping", with specialized handlers for every service. > Many of the domain name registries do share a basic common output > format, although the addition of data elements changes the output > and may cause problems for parsers of the data. > > The WHOIS protocol does not offer any differential service; it > cannot differentiate among clients to offer different subsets of > information or to allow different access rates to it. > > Various attempts to solve the limitations of WHOIS have met with > mixed success. The most recent of these was IRIS (RFC 3891). > IRIS has not been a successful replacement for WHOIS. The primary > technical reason for this appears to be the complexity of IRIS, the fact > that it builds upon many available technologies that in the aggregate > form a complex system. There may also exist non-technical reasons, > but they lie in areas upon which the IETF does not pass judgement. > > In recent years, ARIN and RIPE NCC have fielded production RESTful > web services to serve WHOIS data, and each has met with success. > It is widely believed that this simpler re-use of Web technologies > familiar to modern web developers has enabled this success. The > purpose of this working group is to broaden the use of RESTful web > services by achieving simple and common URI patterns and responses > amenable to all number resource and domain name registries. > > This Working Group shall determine the general needs of such a > service, and standardize a single data framework. That framework > shall be used to encapsulate objects that could form part of an > answer. The framework shall be for data to be delivered via a > RESTful data service using HTTP (optionally using TLS). The data > shall have one mandatory format, though the working group may consider > other optional formats. The overall effort will be broadly aligned with > a subset of the Cross Registry Internet Service Protocol (CRISP) > Requirements (RFC 3707), but with the explicit additional goals of > producing a simple, easy-to-implement protocol, supporting > internationalized registration data and, specifically for > name registries, a data model capturing the needs of internationalized > domain names. > > As the number registries have more experience with these services > and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in > more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working > group are to produce standards-track specifications for both number > and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the number registry > input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and > draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response, as an initial basis. > > Milestones > > November 2012 Draft WEIRDS requirements to IESG for > publication as Informational RFC. > > April 2013 Draft WEIRDS specification for number resources to IESG for > publication on the standards track. > > July 2013 Draft WEIRDS specifications for name > registries to IESG for publication on the standards > track. From carlosm3011@gmail.com Tue Mar 20 13:38:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E2E21F84E7 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:38:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.48 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.48 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dOMMAkPIzgYb for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f172.google.com (mail-gx0-f172.google.com [209.85.161.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D8E721F84D6 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:38:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ggmi1 with SMTP id i1so540172ggm.31 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:38:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=+eptN+VNZX0uhftXfM/1hnQgGZu5ItV5XD+3NNUYhcc=; b=r/AXw4DFBz5XXmu2QjblSg9IBP1IWctddhoqUK1Ys8Du9okFwojsK7/7idhEnrooCM /Krdo91aLplvxSxZDbjREPZlWQcI8RMDZPyZFfBveiXrmdPY20CIK2CBDw1kxOnaXiy3 2EZbpSmjaOwg6BkYuUyIYNWPu/8U/27s09hHkaXw9naCVNbVnrc76hMFHlRAaow0tS/6 vPcQmgIrMPDCvjJyMx2rTuy+E0UK8VF+w1nj3CNDyECPIhtbFaWf+Y9NqGAicjMyjQ2O sCmJI1bq4BqoyAkNqe10/u0h7kHSYgAVTy0/DYQpYO7CWOF+9PZLtecVQ/RkvWIInxCG v5lA== Received: by 10.236.173.195 with SMTP id v43mr1459864yhl.40.1332275929741; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.local ([200.7.85.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n10sm3287484ani.8.2012.03.20.13.38.47 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F68EAD5.2050607@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:38:45 -0300 From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000303000303000909050204" Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:38:51 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000303000303000909050204 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +1 Support from me On 3/20/12 5:24 PM, Andy Newton wrote: > Sorry for the confusion. Here's a revision based on the feedback so far. > > -andy > > > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --------------000303000303000909050204 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +1 Support from me

On 3/20/12 5:24 PM, Andy Newton wrote: 
Sorry for the confusion. Here's a revision based on the feedback so far.

-andy




_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds
--------------000303000303000909050204-- From fobispo@isc.org Tue Mar 20 13:45:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F5EC21F8624 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:45:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0XLZZf9rFUZL for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DFF721F863C for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55A3BC944A; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:45:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:ac9f:72e6:8512:6c5] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:ac9f:72e6:8512:6c5]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 40785216C33; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:45:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:45:20 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <52A5D7C3-4A55-4A0B-A6BA-F0D1A9ACB381@isc.org> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:45:44 -0000 I would like to see: draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd as part of: As the number registries have more experience with these services and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working group are to produce standards-track specifications for both number and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the number registry input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response, as an initial basis. On Mar 20, 2012, at 1:24 PM, Andy Newton wrote: > Sorry for the confusion. Here's a revision based on the feedback so far. > > -andy > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Francisco Obispo email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID = B38DB1BE From aservin@lacnic.net Tue Mar 20 13:46:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C231921F861B for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:46:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DfWylPGJgi4i for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A2E321F860F for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:2c66:3397:df5a:43] (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:2c66:3397:df5a:43]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8006630846E; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:46:24 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:46:24 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:46:39 -0000 I think this chapter version reflects a balance among the many = opinions done in this list, hence I support. Regards, .as On 20 Mar 2012, at 17:24, Andy Newton wrote: > Sorry for the confusion. Here's a revision based on the feedback so = far. >=20 > -andy >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From AMaitland@Commerco.Com Tue Mar 20 14:38:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A415A21F85F9 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:38:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DYB5MzJJDrYa for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MS1.MailSys.Net (MS1.MailSys.Net [66.135.47.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED32721E801A for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:38:33 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=mailsys; d=Commerco.Com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-fromip:x-fromcountry; b=Pvg++HFrckTUIHopYB/6elLdnwOdlDu5Lqz5NkDZf+H3FsDUiAQiONyo4Uhihhen9T54J+m7qjMtMKIYAtV5Ls7845IezTY3dAfF6piB1EJBSfEcG0NLmdQIscP2MVZDT/+D8AEDYTDDpt1wgXKRM0Z1O/VdS8uQlUNWf0yr7wE= Received: from [71.216.84.59] by MS1.MailSys.Net (ArGoSoft Mail Server .NET v.1.0.8.3) with ESMTP (EHLO [10.240.241.49]) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 21:38:31 +0000 Message-ID: <4F68F8D1.3020400@Commerco.Com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 15:38:25 -0600 From: Alan Maitland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> In-Reply-To: <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-FromIP: 71.216.84.59 X-FromCountry: US Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 21:38:34 -0000 On 3/20/2012 1:32 PM, Avri Doria wrote: > Hi, > > I think the compromise document it's pretty good am would like to offer one relatively small, I think/hope, change. > > Modify > > As the number registries have more experience with these services > and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in > more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working > group are to work on specifications for both number and name registries > using the fashion and pattern of the name registry input documents as > a basis going forward. > > To > > As the number registries have more experience with these services > and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in > more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working > group are to work on specifications for both number and name registries > using the fashion and pattern of the name registry input documents as > an initial basis. > > I.e. > > substitue "as a basis going forward" with "as an initial basis" > > Avri > Agree, though I would use the word "foundation" to replace "basis". Alan From johnl@iecc.com Tue Mar 20 16:12:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CD4521E8018 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:12:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.614 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.614 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.585, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6KOA1wmimdng for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCDD21E8017 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 14685 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2012 23:12:17 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 20 Mar 2012 23:12:17 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4f690ed1.xn--30v786c.k1203; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=KDsqVAXaJHm6qRLXdxM5RmpGNKXltaaJcoV5C1kIy3Y=; b=LmOp1NFobHPacNuM7lEyFD5H6BKAiii2ehOy+qurpKblQ2NNxIalO2pOQpDPj1cg7QuUm4ajBIIBqqiDtKYBponb5Vtp2NeGthCUlBlBDMrNLZTJXpCpNDbgCvADdYf1YooB7Qk68tJhxkY9PoVk9EeV6M3IuR/MvxBrGuocdRI= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 20 Mar 2012 23:11:55 -0000 Message-ID: <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 23:12:19 -0000 > As the number registries have more experience with these services > and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in > more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working > group are to produce standards-track specifications for both number > and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the number registry > input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and > draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response, as an initial basis. Sorry to interrupt the love-in, but I have to say this looks to me to be a recipe for failure. If history is a guide, the name work will get bogged down in whatever it is that they always get bogged down in. They will demand that the number work wait for them to work it out, which they never will. For there to be any hope of success, we need to specifically agree that the number work will *NOT* wait for names work. If I'm wrong and the name work can move fast enough to provide useful input to make the two similar without delaying the number work, that's great. If they can't, well, so be it. R's, John From fneves@registro.br Tue Mar 20 16:25:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8E021E8024 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.465 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.465 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.135, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zyakHfDR77Ab for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B30A21E801F for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9F9EDE049F; Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:25:25 -0300 (BRT) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 20:25:25 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: John Levine Message-ID: <20120320232525.GB73092@registro.br> References: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 23:25:27 -0000 John, On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 11:11:55PM -0000, John Levine wrote: > > As the number registries have more experience with these services > > and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in > > more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working > > group are to produce standards-track specifications for both number > > and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the number registry > > input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and > > draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response, as an initial basis. > > Sorry to interrupt the love-in, but I have to say this looks to me to > be a recipe for failure. > > If history is a guide, the name work will get bogged down in whatever > it is that they always get bogged down in. They will demand that the > number work wait for them to work it out, which they never will. With all due respect, if it's to take history in any account, the fact that we toke numbers and names together during the CRISP time, btw numbers got on the bandwagon way after names, has nothing to do with the failure of IRIS. We had a base spec defining lookup, search etc... and specific documents for the mappings of domain names and Blocks/ASs. I see no reason that we can't agree on a base URI schema and specific encodings for the different registries. We've already a proposed draft that leverages the numbers schema and adapts it to the names as a proof of the feasibility of this approach. > For there to be any hope of success, we need to specifically agree > that the number work will *NOT* wait for names work. If I'm wrong and > the name work can move fast enough to provide useful input to make the > two similar without delaying the number work, that's great. If they > can't, well, so be it. > > R's, > John Regards, Fred From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 21 01:12:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7655621F8546 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:12:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.46 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.46 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.140, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id arvLvlg1C+Ol for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ABAE21F8550 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 23510 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2012 08:12:08 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=5bd5.4f698d58.k1203; bh=gyCCInHPnLJJhot/1XNBtEc7f0GaPeXcX7qX79e2Yco=; b=SeLOL948OXXgvv3XeCbI6NxOYCZWYbOflgyJIurN2vdupLk8ENUBvXHdGX0Fx1nDA/kXHfcshUnIc3TA4DWnjH+ptqsLWu6yYayNfdicBcmhr3TqFSdAmNFwe5EbR9exrfeblk4IBCVMHwpeQOTiuQCQ2a8fxOg9UyCizCiVO68= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 21 Mar 2012 08:11:46 -0000 Date: 21 Mar 2012 09:12:07 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Frederico A C Neves" In-Reply-To: <20120320232525.GB73092@registro.br> References: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> <20120320232525.GB73092@registro.br> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:12:12 -0000 > I see no reason that we can't agree on a base URI schema and specific > encodings for the different registries. If so, that's great. But if we can't, the names people can't make the numbers work wait. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 21 01:47:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0FDD21F8523 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:47:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.625 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.625 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.574, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S7XtjDEtIIkR for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61FB21F851C for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 01:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 30138 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2012 08:47:50 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 21 Mar 2012 08:47:50 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4f6995b6.xn--9vv.k1203; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=E//YJmKOKs7syPwYtfZSwEhAbjizSJdWzg13Ww9nA/M=; b=ovQ149yk9LkDnRQ3nbIk7cXnEVy+DHL0R11n/dtgkI3/nFNQpTS+5i+scrl90MvzRUo1+JQ/L84w2YFiFcLM++C1k9LDxC4bbhs0EoVSA/8i6aZBFOr+bMTij4BMpSULupKP59iJ28w6SwpNg3FA7lQGMltRGFIczTBKfiS9eA8= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 21 Mar 2012 08:47:28 -0000 Message-ID: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <03FD87D6-8ECB-42DD-BE65-36E0DA3174F5@isc.org> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:47:53 -0000 >When any of sender or receiver are third parties, you need to provide >means for checking that the data is consistent and valid. Of course you >can do this in JSON, but it requires significant more developing effort >than in XML. This makes no sense. If you're debugging your server, you check that the responses match what's in the RFC. Whatever syntax checking your favorite XML library might provide would only be a small part of this. If you're trying to look stuff up in production, you decode what you can, and ignore what you can't. If you think that people doing WHOIS lookups will ignore a response because its syntax doesn't quite agree with the spec, you must not do many WHOIS lookups. R's, John From aalain@afrinic.net Wed Mar 21 02:34:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DD6D21F85EA for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 02:34:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EP1dGpHqBJ67 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 02:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.jnb.afrinic.net (mx.jnb.afrinic.net [IPv6:2001:42d0:0:410::142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C5321F85CE for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 02:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.jnb.afrinic.net (mail.jnb.afrinic.net [IPv6:2001:42d0:0:410::141]) by mx.jnb.afrinic.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2L9YKv3022858; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:34:20 GMT (envelope-from aalain@afrinic.net) Received: from [192.168.3.100] ([41.207.162.253]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.jnb.afrinic.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2L9MLqO098182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:22:36 GMT (envelope-from aalain@afrinic.net) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: ALAIN AINA In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3B3F@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:33:55 +0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <4C3BB28C-791C-4FD3-B038-DA05EAEFC5DC@afrinic.net> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3B3F@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:34:33 -0000 +1 --Alain On Mar 20, 2012, at 11:59 PM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Andy Newton >> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:56 PM >> To: weirds@ietf.org >> Subject: [weirds] a charter offering compromise >> >> All, >> >> As we go into our second BoF and likely final venue to convince the >> IETF to form a working group, I wish to propose a compromise with >> regard to the charter and the charter discussion about numbers before >> names and the various other threads in hopes to bring finality to some >> issues. Attached you will find a charter proposal based on the proposal >> originally written by Andrew Sullivan. This charter proposal removes >> the numbers before names restriction that resulted from our first BoF >> in exchange for using the number registry input documents as a pattern >> going forward and explicitly noting the need for IDN data model support >> in the name registry specification. >> >> Going into the BoF with a charter proposal that reflects our ability to >> compromise would likely do us good in convincing the IETF to form a >> working group on this topic, and it would be beneficial as a common >> starting point. > > Modulo the changes already suggested I like the approach. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed Mar 21 03:36:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BB9721F85AF for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:36:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.488 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.488 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yk+Ou5TZXH9m for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 686AF21F85A0 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A25481ECB41D for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:36:01 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:36:00 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120321103559.GB48202@mail.yitter.info> References: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> <20120320232525.GB73092@registro.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:36:03 -0000 On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 09:12:07AM +0100, John R. Levine wrote: > If so, that's great. But if we can't, the names people can't make > the numbers work wait. Ok, but why is that something that needs to be stated in the charter rather than just a matter of good WG management by a competent chair? I'm more than a little concerned that everyone seems to want a charter that will guarantee their preferred outcome. Charters are just a way of guiding a WG's actions, mostly by limitation; I don't think they're like a Statement of Work that make any sort of promises about what will happen for sure. (If they are, the IETF has lousy management: I can't remember the last WG I was involved with that consistently met its milestones.) Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Mar 21 03:54:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA22421F84E4 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:54:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EiAq57MfSLcf for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og107.obsmtp.com (exprod6og107.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF77E21F84CE for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob107.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT2mzRjwizl7OiKWCXqHVwh7Y4Ryutj4N@postini.com; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 03:53:59 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2LArsbf010228; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:53:57 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.206]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:53:54 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:53:54 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "John R. Levine" Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBzpXN3AWMVus40SRcjQj8tXaHZZ0ku0A Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:53:53 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5C3FFE@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> <20120320232525.GB73092@registro.br> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2012 10:53:54.0075 (UTC) FILETIME=[E85C3EB0:01CD0750] Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:54:00 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of John R. Levine > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 4:12 AM > To: Frederico A C Neves > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise >=20 > > I see no reason that we can't agree on a base URI schema and specific > > encodings for the different registries. >=20 > If so, that's great. But if we can't, the names people can't make the > numbers work wait. I don't see any dependencies in the proposed charter that would make that p= ossible. Scott From andy@arin.net Wed Mar 21 05:59:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDCF221F8523 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 05:59:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wGsQ9aO3TSvm for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 05:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4954F21F84D9 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 05:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id AFAB2164F5A; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ECBC164EFE; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:58:42 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:59:18 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Avri Doria , Alan Maitland Thread-Topic: [weirds] a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBsK1rlZgTHz/KkyCppqrRFwQfZZz1fAAgAAjJ4CAAQFLAA== Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:59:16 +0000 Message-ID: <2342D038-2C3B-4B47-BC76-1DA19980827F@arin.net> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <4F68F8D1.3020400@Commerco.Com> In-Reply-To: <4F68F8D1.3020400@Commerco.Com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3CB358CFBCC88143A2A135505F4D0496@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:59:34 -0000 On Mar 20, 2012, at 5:38 PM, Alan Maitland wrote: >> substitue "as a basis going forward" with "as an initial basis" >>=20 >> Avri >>=20 >=20 > Agree, though I would use the word "foundation" to replace "basis". I'm fine with either. Avri? -andy From andy@arin.net Wed Mar 21 06:17:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337C021F84B9 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:17:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xcgk+BBJSkHo for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2AC221F854B for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:17:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 59DCD164F5D; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBB55164EFB; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:16:58 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:17:09 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: John Levine Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBteI5Hw6W2u7Ukeivtr702/NO5Z0Ew2AgADsKQA= Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:17:09 +0000 Message-ID: <9389195D-0EA0-4219-8798-A0F37CC1EA9B@arin.net> References: <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4FDBB28265B55D40997967AFEBBE94EA@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:17:13 -0000 On Mar 20, 2012, at 7:11 PM, John Levine wrote: > Sorry to interrupt the love-in, but I have to say this looks to me to > be a recipe for failure. And I thought this drum circle would never end? :) > If history is a guide, the name work will get bogged down in whatever > it is that they always get bogged down in. They will demand that the > number work wait for them to work it out, which they never will. While I understand the first part of that, I don't understand the second pa= rt. Yes, there is a potential for the names work to get bogged down in some= issues, such as IDNs. But what is their motivation for stopping the number= s work? As far as codifying that in the charter, I'm not sure how you would prevent= it anyway. What's to stop them from bringing up one legitimate looking nit= after another? Additionally, if the system does look likes its being gamed in that manner = I'll be the first to start filling appeals. -andy= From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Wed Mar 21 06:39:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2DF521F85F9 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:39:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lpcyHQUrpBu6 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0473321F8539 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2LAjpoF072124 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 06:45:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F69DA05.30303@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:39:17 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> <20120320232525.GB73092@registro.br> <20120321103559.GB48202@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120321103559.GB48202@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:39:28 -0000 On 3/21/12 6:36 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >> If so, that's great. But if we can't, the names people can't make >> > the numbers work wait. > Ok, but why is that something that needs to be stated in the charter > rather than just a matter of good WG management by a competent chair? well, some prudence is reasonable in view of the history of attempts to fix or kill the thing on :43. personally i think it reasonable to notice the historic intractables that yet another failure is possible, leaving them with the thing on :43, and that repetition of inability to find rough consensus for a specification which can be implemented has limited scope. -e From fobispo@isc.org Wed Mar 21 07:27:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ACFF21F8603 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:27:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S4tHBYPJwBHN for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C4021F8576 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02E0E5F9899; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:26:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00A60216C3D; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:26:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:26:39 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> To: John Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:27:05 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 1:47 AM, John Levine wrote: > This makes no sense. If you're debugging your server, you check that > the responses match what's in the RFC. This is why RFCs who use XML, have XML Schema Definitions for the = protocols, so that this can be done systematically. > Whatever syntax checking your > favorite XML library might provide would only be a small part of this. >=20 Syntax !=3D Validation > If you're trying to look stuff up in production, you decode what you > can, and ignore what you can't. If you think that people doing WHOIS > lookups will ignore a response because its syntax doesn't quite agree > with the spec, you must not do many WHOIS lookups. >=20 It's not a matter on whether they will ignore it or not, it's about = whether they will need to do ~400 different implementations of the = parser (sadly like we have today with port 43 whois), or just one with a = few extensions with the new proposal. > R's, > John Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Wed Mar 21 07:56:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86E4921F872B for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:56:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bvRiSfdknewq for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:56:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBD9121E800E for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2LC2tXL072558 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:02:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F69EC16.9040001@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:56:22 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:56:29 -0000 On 3/21/12 10:26 AM, Francisco Obispo wrote: > It's not a matter on whether they will ignore it or not, it's about whether they will need to do ~400 different implementations of the parser (sadly like we have today with port 43 whois), can the number cited ("~400") be associated with some published study on actual implementations? -e From Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz Wed Mar 21 07:57:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1C821F8735 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:57:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.364 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.364 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.235, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YW0-uFN2Ege1 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stora.ogud.com (stora.ogud.com [66.92.146.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DAC421F85E5 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 07:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from work-laptop-2 (nyttbox.md.ogud.com [10.20.30.4]) by stora.ogud.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2LEv6n7014670; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:57:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from Ed.Lewis@neustar.biz) Received: from [10.31.200.237] by work-laptop-2 (PGP Universal service); Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:57:06 -0400 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by work-laptop-2 on Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:57:06 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:56:16 -0400 To: From: Edward Lewis Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.72 on 10.20.30.4 Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:57:11 -0000 At 16:24 -0400 3/20/12, Andy Newton wrote: >Sorry for the confusion. Here's a revision based on the feedback so far. This is clearer, certainly. This is the way I'd suggest wording the last paragraph: The goal of the WG is to produce standards-track specifications for both number and name registries. However, the number registries have more experience with these services and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in more complete working group input documents. Hence the intended approach of the WG is to begin with the number registry input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response [*]. The same fashion and pattern will be applied to the name registry documents. [*] - and open to the suggestion of the third document. I did a lot of cut'n'paste to retain as much of the "fashion and pattern" of the proposed charter text. My re-wording attempt is to remove the notion of the proposed approach as a goal. I.e., the goal is the set of final documents, not following the proscribed approach. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis NeuStar You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468 2012...time to reuse those 1984 calendars! From aservin@lacnic.net Wed Mar 21 08:11:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A38D421F8735 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:11:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bux7PUvJZo1G for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA3A921F8734 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:4886:47c:ceef:2be8] (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:4886:47c:ceef:2be8]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 235B230846F; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:11:33 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AEBE1197-65B3-48D1-9BD9-35946BFFD95C" From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:11:32 -0300 Message-Id: <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> To: Francisco Obispo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: John Levine , weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:11:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AEBE1197-65B3-48D1-9BD9-35946BFFD95C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On 21 Mar 2012, at 11:26, Francisco Obispo wrote: > On Mar 21, 2012, at 1:47 AM, John Levine wrote: >=20 >> This makes no sense. If you're debugging your server, you check that >> the responses match what's in the RFC. >=20 > This is why RFCs who use XML, have XML Schema Definitions for the = protocols, so that this can be done systematically. >=20 Which in turn raises the barrier of entry to many developers, = that=B4s something that we want to avoid using json in the numbers = world. Regards, as --Apple-Mail=_AEBE1197-65B3-48D1-9BD9-35946BFFD95C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
On Mar 21, = 2012, at 1:47 AM, John Levine wrote:

This= makes no sense.  If you're debugging your server, you check = that
the responses match = what's in the RFC.

This is why RFCs who use XML, = have XML Schema Definitions for the protocols, so that this can be done = systematically.



<= div> = Which in turn raises the barrier of entry to many developers, = that=B4s something that we want to avoid using json in the numbers = world.

Regards,
as

=

= --Apple-Mail=_AEBE1197-65B3-48D1-9BD9-35946BFFD95C-- From fobispo@isc.org Wed Mar 21 08:18:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348C221F874F for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:18:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BrGAapichbXh for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4AAB21F8697 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D63E85F98E6; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:18:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 310D4216C31; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:18:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <4F69EC16.9040001@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:18:01 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <4F69EC16.9040001@abenaki.wabanaki.net> To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:18:22 -0000 Not really/necessary, Port 43 format is free text, and with >240 ccTLDs, gTLDs, RIRs, and = others, it is easy to see how different those implementations would = be... Perhaps ICANN has some details on a whois study. On Mar 21, 2012, at 7:56 AM, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: > On 3/21/12 10:26 AM, Francisco Obispo wrote: >> It's not a matter on whether they will ignore it or not, it's about = whether they will need to do ~400 different implementations of the = parser (sadly like we have today with port 43 whois), >=20 > can the number cited ("~400") be associated with some published study > on actual implementations? >=20 > -e > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From fobispo@isc.org Wed Mar 21 08:30:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B9AA21F8722 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:30:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f3c9zYUe8laJ for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB3E21F86E5 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE98E5F98C5; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:30:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 12A68216C31; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:30:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:30:14 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> To: Arturo Servin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: John Levine , weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:30:30 -0000 The only difference with XML and JSON validation, is that for the = latter, you have to do the checks by hand=85=20 One way to provide JSON is by doing an XLST conversion from XML->JSON,=85 = this would allow us to get the full benefit of XML, and still provide a = JSON format (validated), for those who want to avoid XML. But the beauty of RESTful, is the fact that we can have multiple = response formats coexisting. On Mar 21, 2012, at 8:11 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 > On 21 Mar 2012, at 11:26, Francisco Obispo wrote: >=20 >> On Mar 21, 2012, at 1:47 AM, John Levine wrote: >>=20 >>> This makes no sense. If you're debugging your server, you check = that >>> the responses match what's in the RFC. >>=20 >> This is why RFCs who use XML, have XML Schema Definitions for the = protocols, so that this can be done systematically. >>=20 >=20 >=20 > Which in turn raises the barrier of entry to many developers, = that=B4s something that we want to avoid using json in the numbers = world. >=20 > Regards, > as >=20 >=20 Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed Mar 21 08:39:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1480821E8037 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:39:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.489 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.489 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rXxa2+mBXD6B for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD7D21E800E for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D4241ECB41D for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:39:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:39:31 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120321153931.GG48500@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:39:35 -0000 On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 08:30:14AM -0700, Francisco Obispo wrote: > > One way to provide JSON is by doing an XLST conversion from > XML->JSON,… this would allow us to get the full benefit of XML, and s/benefit/pain and I'll grant this. But in any case, > But the beauty of RESTful, is the fact that we can have multiple response formats coexisting. > This all seems to me to be a technical dispute about trade offs that one can have in a working group, rather than a question that needs to be settled as part of a charter discussion. A key goal -- simplicity of implementation -- is, I think, something that should go in the charter. How to achieve that goal (maybe it's ditching both of these in favour of YAML. Or reverting to SGML. Or just IRIS over http. Or a dozen other bad ideas one might think of) is part of the work, I think. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From aservin@lacnic.net Wed Mar 21 08:43:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A4121F842D for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:43:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lHr9AuT0L7RM for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93DEE21E8040 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 08:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:4886:47c:ceef:2be8] (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5128:4886:47c:ceef:2be8]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id C267D30846F; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:43:28 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:43:28 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <37D4033A-545C-49E6-86A5-876441AE9F37@lacnic.net> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> To: Francisco Obispo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: John Levine , weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:43:42 -0000 Or just not do validation. I am sceptic on how much validation is people going to do in = reality. Regards, .as On 21 Mar 2012, at 12:30, Francisco Obispo wrote: > The only difference with XML and JSON validation, is that for the = latter, you have to do the checks by hand=85=20 >=20 > One way to provide JSON is by doing an XLST conversion from = XML->JSON,=85 this would allow us to get the full benefit of XML, and = still provide a JSON format (validated), for those who want to avoid = XML. >=20 > But the beauty of RESTful, is the fact that we can have multiple = response formats coexisting. >=20 >=20 > On Mar 21, 2012, at 8:11 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On 21 Mar 2012, at 11:26, Francisco Obispo wrote: >>=20 >>> On Mar 21, 2012, at 1:47 AM, John Levine wrote: >>>=20 >>>> This makes no sense. If you're debugging your server, you check = that >>>> the responses match what's in the RFC. >>>=20 >>> This is why RFCs who use XML, have XML Schema Definitions for the = protocols, so that this can be done systematically. >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Which in turn raises the barrier of entry to many developers, = that=B4s something that we want to avoid using json in the numbers = world. >>=20 >> Regards, >> as >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > Francisco Obispo=20 > email: fobispo@isc.org > Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC > PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From fobispo@isc.org Wed Mar 21 09:42:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E2F21E8053 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:42:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iseV0mO3rtdu for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EAD021E804D for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:42:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 961D05F9865; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:41:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E4324216C31; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:41:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <20120321153931.GG48500@mail.yitter.info> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:41:52 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> <20120321153931.GG48500@mail.yitter.info> To: Andrew Sullivan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:42:09 -0000 Agreed, let's get the charter going first ;-) On Mar 21, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > This all seems to me to be a technical dispute about trade offs that > one can have in a working group, rather than a question that needs to > be settled as part of a charter discussion. A key goal -- simplicity > of implementation -- is, I think, something that should go in the > charter. How to achieve that goal (maybe it's ditching both of these > in favour of YAML. Or reverting to SGML. Or just IRIS over http. Or > a dozen other bad ideas one might think of) is part of the work, I think Francisco Obispo email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID = B38DB1BE From carlosm3011@gmail.com Wed Mar 21 09:54:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB03B21F869C for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:54:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.488 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.488 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ek5NUfEKrUnr for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f44.google.com (mail-yw0-f44.google.com [209.85.213.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66DE21F8699 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhkk25 with SMTP id k25so1235418yhk.31 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:54:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7J3O40bQCGoMzGH+99JtcpnlImBf5v5bha74YAigGvM=; b=QCBrI7vd5gBM/nC/1aCDAuqWSda0SWCzniOJL//PnunjVndu5fUY4JLiQRrprpkLkw 7MB1oCimyzNj+dktl9jKTOzJa4JOtv3YcCxQ84kuX4whY0upJKXwP13MPYhMuXY16mGy KWAd6vRS3mkir5ThuF1O+dFgQpnmpPQeeSOuE73sFMWhb6cbInUfudJneRFY2wnTL6Es 1wSKDaGbTkoDVgHIN5/73fnhUeW+VBtm4maDA+JNHZF/O/KIGk4B1f68JFjk8ru/aOfr UEbSwgfW35u+rUAHizEqEw7quSEgbD89oF1IljJU8PNLVYjrPIxpOGhlcDATw5acOUdB IQag== Received: by 10.236.165.98 with SMTP id d62mr4551390yhl.95.1332348884449; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.local ([200.7.85.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n10sm2790060ani.8.2012.03.21.09.54.42 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 21 Mar 2012 09:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F6A07D1.20209@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:54:41 -0300 From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> <20120321153931.GG48500@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:54:48 -0000 +1, let's get a charter and a WG, then we can discuss data formats over large quantities of beer :-) C. On 3/21/12 1:41 PM, Francisco Obispo wrote: > Agreed, > > let's get the charter going first ;-) > > > On Mar 21, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > >> This all seems to me to be a technical dispute about trade offs that >> one can have in a working group, rather than a question that needs to >> be settled as part of a charter discussion. A key goal -- simplicity >> of implementation -- is, I think, something that should go in the >> charter. How to achieve that goal (maybe it's ditching both of these >> in favour of YAML. Or reverting to SGML. Or just IRIS over http. Or >> a dozen other bad ideas one might think of) is part of the work, I think > Francisco Obispo > email: fobispo@isc.org > Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC > PGP KeyID = B38DB1BE > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From msk@cloudmark.com Wed Mar 21 10:48:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C6921F852E for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:48:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VewedzHC19I6 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C3B21F8522 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::e82a:4f80:7f44:eaf7%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 10:48:40 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Use of WHOIS in anti-spam Thread-Index: Ac0Hiti7MiJhZGatT7+sF0j5zq6XiA== Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:48:39 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928095E05@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928095E05exchmbx901corpclo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Use of WHOIS in anti-spam X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:48:41 -0000 --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928095E05exchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of interest to those among us (like me!) that want to use the output of WEI= RDS to do abuse mitigation work: http://www.jdsupra.com/post/documentViewer.aspx?fid=3Db4db9a99-dfe2-4615-8e= 58-bf900d0171d8 -MSK --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928095E05exchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Of interest to those among us (like me!) that want t= o use the output of WEIRDS to do abuse mitigation work:

 

http://www.jdsupra.com/p= ost/documentViewer.aspx?fid=3Db4db9a99-dfe2-4615-8e58-bf900d0171d8=

 

-MSK

--_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928095E05exchmbx901corpclo_-- From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 21 11:01:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F4E21E809A for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:01:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.462 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.462 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.138, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kwh0QXZhwSvp for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0209521E8091 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 53509 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2012 18:01:46 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=d104.4f6a178a.k1203; bh=JwDeHLG+ZCmLU5Op8e5jV84qQ7Fgr7oZ9RWVM33dqRk=; b=s9Fbz+tBVKvhSw8wJPglkOUqUAjXg4G1nCYgr96bAlr5bgX7M0H5mySTA3vQefsZXNSLg4przT5g3Ez4gGeRNiC2nFM5Dp6avVdtSbID+DyAlXPJOSxbF5Y5CdxlVXEMg4txevuCmc804Vjv8yRiL8KBxOz/lVx0ib4+lUUYbAw= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 21 Mar 2012 18:01:24 -0000 Date: 21 Mar 2012 19:01:44 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Francisco Obispo" In-Reply-To: References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:01:49 -0000 >> Whatever syntax checking your >> favorite XML library might provide would only be a small part of this. > Syntax != Validation Sigh. Whatever validation your favorite XML library might provide would be only a small part of this. >> If you're trying to look stuff up in production, you decode what you >> can, and ignore what you can't. If you think that people doing WHOIS >> lookups will ignore a response because its syntax doesn't quite agree >> with the spec, you must not do many WHOIS lookups. >> > It's not a matter on whether they will ignore it or not, it's about > whether they will need to do ~400 different implementations of the > parser The goal is certainly to get every server to implement the spec correctly, and I agree that it would be a good ideas to provide tools to help them test them. But when some random ISP in Asia has bugs in the data they return, what exactly do you expect clients to do? Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From fobispo@isc.org Wed Mar 21 11:05:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B486621F8576 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VyyxQeovzC5J for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:05:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C412521F856F for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57192C9476; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:04:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22238216C3D; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:04:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:04:51 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> To: "John R. Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:05:05 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 11:01 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > The goal is certainly to get every server to implement the spec = correctly, and I agree that it would be a good ideas to provide tools to = help them test them. =20 +1 > But when some random ISP in Asia has bugs in the data they return, = what exactly do you expect clients to do? Prevent them from using the information as valid.. treating it as = garbage, or sending it for a human for review. Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 21 11:16:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90EF21E809D for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:16:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.464 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.464 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.136, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id esGQc4prbkuf for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE6121E8097 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 58669 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2012 18:16:27 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=e52c.4f6a1afb.k1203; bh=bExFB8OJe+x8Nwjtezn2d0nwNhZyiK77DNvm7+S9Peg=; b=Sq9G2zX24n7n0wIxrCVZQvIIfDBHWhmjS8zLLHi6ddaTzIXIUDokGCN6mi+GQxIKCARfUdRYzQsiAQfauwcUnNIaCbuyD1ikSZu4cpiP+6SIc6fYx3UOumgnIGdByN0OazHMvmS2y2tUzVITu140QisAhps5PTfzQtupewja2Rc= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 21 Mar 2012 18:16:05 -0000 Date: 21 Mar 2012 19:16:21 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Francisco Obispo" In-Reply-To: <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="3825401791-343745351-1332353787=:2294" Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:16:30 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3825401791-343745351-1332353787=:2294 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE > The only difference with XML and JSON validation, is that for the latter,= you have to do the checks by hand=E2=80=A6 If that's the only way you know to validate results, OK, but my plan is to= =20 write test harnesses to debug the results, like I do for all my other=20 client server stuff, regardless of what the encoding is. > But the beauty of RESTful, is the fact that we can have multiple=20 > response formats coexisting. It's hard to imagine that the IESG would ever accept something with=20 multiple response formats, so there's no need to argue about this. R's, John --3825401791-343745351-1332353787=:2294-- From fobispo@isc.org Wed Mar 21 11:19:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC63F21F8597 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:19:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gAsKksfZN-vZ for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31A5021F8578 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D86105F989F; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:19:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 18475216C31; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:19:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:19:31 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> To: John R. Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:19:55 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 11:16 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > If that's the only way you know to validate results, OK, but my plan = is to write test harnesses to debug the results, like I do for all my = other client server stuff, regardless of what the encoding is. Good for you that follow good software development practices. = Unfortunately that's not the case for everybody, so good luck parsing = the answer from someone who has not done the same. Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 21 11:26:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F1421F85A1 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:26:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.466 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.466 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.134, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WAiDXs9LXiYD for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:26:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD92021F856C for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 61624 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2012 18:26:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=f0b7.4f6a1d4a.k1203; bh=1YT88MTu3t8NtFiihuq1jwrU3LU6EFsfYs/GzL4p3ps=; b=dCOqSrcwKC1eVwtU3efiIae9KQagvowRcYUMAM7G/A6E+SX4HSX8ckdpu7CfsHOpOBcl/xxCcUUQA7W9DnX533QyuvxyAZbE+E4i3zcxjK1DTvm1whuSuLZwGdI76+3+LYDSDp/YOFpsH9ii8MxyKRA1al6dPQro5fYF7Vpmiz8= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 21 Mar 2012 18:25:56 -0000 Date: 21 Mar 2012 19:26:16 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Francisco Obispo" In-Reply-To: References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:26:19 -0000 >> If that's the only way you know to validate results, OK, but my plan is to write test harnesses to debug the results, like I do for all my other client server stuff, regardless of what the encoding is. > > Good for you that follow good software development practices. Unfortunately that's not the case for everybody, so good luck parsing the answer from someone who has not done the same. So just to make it clear, you think that the people writing the servers will be too incompetent to debug their code? Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From fobispo@isc.org Wed Mar 21 11:31:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CC0921E80A3 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:31:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lBPNb2OmdyXJ for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7C3721E80A1 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1A5FC9422; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:31:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 87BA6216C31; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:31:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:31:20 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0985285E-F8E9-4FE0-85BD-4626261D996C@isc.org> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> To: "John R. Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:31:33 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 11:26 AM, John R. Levine wrote: >> ... >=20 > So just to make it clear, you think that the people writing the = servers will be too incompetent to debug their code? >=20 I don't think that. But I can't assure you that the response will be = generated without errors either=85 can you? > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for = Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. = http://jl.ly Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 21 11:33:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E0421E809D for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:33:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.468 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.468 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.132, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PAtqJp-utAw7 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC0B221E8097 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:32:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 63170 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2012 18:32:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=f6c0.4f6a1eda.k1203; bh=2kdQ93PDiX+lTNi5fgIAB9SihKLLT7E7+9U34awr/DI=; b=SXDZNwvsvmB6uOPCV7Q2mYDew5qnGsZzDPaY/9xCUZP9QrnQP13WztVqKypL/ad4VZpCsm01X3Q0cc08EXc/kpPTwIGL45TbTvlljHNIBl+s/ta/jPuz7nzqNas2FPf3xbnV39p3a1ylVVCwrsqmNC85rAEq+K0kRn8YVA78nnI= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 21 Mar 2012 18:32:36 -0000 Date: 21 Mar 2012 19:32:57 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Andy Newton" In-Reply-To: <9389195D-0EA0-4219-8798-A0F37CC1EA9B@arin.net> References: <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> <9389195D-0EA0-4219-8798-A0F37CC1EA9B@arin.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:33:00 -0000 >> If history is a guide, the name work will get bogged down in whatever >> it is that they always get bogged down in. They will demand that the >> number work wait for them to work it out, which they never will. > > While I understand the first part of that, I don't understand the second > part. Yes, there is a potential for the names work to get bogged down in > some issues, such as IDNs. But what is their motivation for stopping the > numbers work? >> the goals of the working group are to produce standards-track specifications for both number >> and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the number registry >> input documents, I don't think that anyone's conscious goal is to stop the numbers work. But I forsee that we're looking at something like, say, what the fields are for a contact person, which it would be nice if it were the same for name and number contact people. The names people get into a long wrangle about some aspect of it. The numbers people say, we're going to pick something that works for us. The names people say, no, you have to wait for us so that it can be the same. Now what? Maybe I'm being unduly pessimistic but the history is not encouraging and I see a very poor understanding of what goes into a successful standard, e.g., the frequent suggestions to allow multiple response formats, Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 21 11:36:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A979B21E8054 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:36:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.47 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.47 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.130, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GGvv+-YWGRO7 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6044D21F85F6 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 64236 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2012 18:36:42 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=faeb.4f6a1fba.k1203; bh=dSZ/qsv5Uw+t7iAIlOZ+z52FWN3kkssTt5g2fKcQoYE=; b=AD+EeRYE1OcqwYwKkgAxC/dfBuw9B5RB4/br7NTNGnm0hhnBbyBjXlRW1xctaAMm3tv/7HmGPaMhBchf1fX8FFXclAfAB94w4mKgTPKR4umaDGT6NpVx8wJqs6Q9JgPzZxRJNUMqH/tOYMIKAKhJAqgMam6LbL86CdkTfA9kZ8Q= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 21 Mar 2012 18:36:20 -0000 Date: 21 Mar 2012 19:36:40 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Francisco Obispo" In-Reply-To: <0985285E-F8E9-4FE0-85BD-4626261D996C@isc.org> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> <0985285E-F8E9-4FE0-85BD-4626261D996C@isc.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="3825401791-817178625-1332355002=:2294" Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:36:44 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3825401791-817178625-1332355002=:2294 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE >> So just to make it clear, you think that the people writing the servers = will be too incompetent to debug their code? > > I don't think that. Hmmn. You sure seemed to say it two messages ago. > But I can't assure you that the response will be=20 > generated without errors either=E2=80=A6 can you? Nope. And neither of us can promise that the response will be correct no= =20 matter how much XML you stuff into it. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummi= es", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly --3825401791-817178625-1332355002=:2294-- From fobispo@isc.org Wed Mar 21 11:39:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0E6F21F85F8 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:39:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8TX0mw2s9CAS for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24EF521F85A0 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9428C9422; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:39:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [192.168.255.100] (c-76-126-250-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [76.126.250.157]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B2A4F216C31; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:39:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 11:39:34 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <081E25C8-8078-41CD-BEDE-AE35C3DEAAD7@isc.org> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> <0985285E-F8E9-4FE0-85BD-4626261D996C@isc.org> To: "John R. Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:39:47 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 11:36 AM, John R. Levine wrote: >>> So just to make it clear, you think that the people writing the = servers will be too incompetent to debug their code? >>=20 >> I don't think that. >=20 > Hmmn. You sure seemed to say it two messages ago. >=20 s/people/some people/=20 and I will say "yes" >> But I can't assure you that the response will be generated without = errors either=85 can you? >=20 > Nope. And neither of us can promise that the response will be correct = no matter how much XML you stuff into it. >=20 Exactly, and it would be nice to be able to tell when without too much = effort. > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for = Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. = http://jl.ly Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From andy@arin.net Wed Mar 21 12:02:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDB2F21F8595 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:02:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESHsIoYHYeJi for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:02:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A3A21E80C4 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 3B0D021368B; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CB9213552; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:01:22 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:01:58 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNB4GS7qmJxTkzaUuG1sOMVk35UJZ1OqiAgAAjj4A= Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:01:57 +0000 Message-ID: <7DA0994D-5A55-4035-ACE5-513F38139BAD@arin.net> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> <20120321153931.GG48500@mail.yitter.info> <4F6A07D1.20209@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4F6A07D1.20209@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.35.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <379DED6F062EEF41B474A5C467DD2BEA@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:02:13 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo wrote: > then we can discuss data formats over > large quantities of beer Are you buying? Because, my friend, you haven't enough money if this thread= is any indication of how that discussion will go. -andy= From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 21 12:21:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9110A21E80BD for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:21:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.472 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.472 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.128, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KjA+BLAfe-aH for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6C5921E80AD for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 74338 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2012 19:21:42 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=12261.4f6a2a46.k1203; bh=gh/7ObaLAygVO7jBaJZ4ewwRjgkz+9P1F5+q1SMGxBA=; b=B69okb+vomavRqkxRF+Nryp8oWq35/xeN4/fpJBSSuvWCD5xEak2DOSwC1yZV1ZHDb8uBXC0pc27kCl0vsyciZf/e4XlHSUOF1KucC8HWrGEOu23MYj8FN/wKdWRPwwfPM4kyCcMqw+H3nojbx3JrEcTbGfhv7ijpisEORs/teE= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 21 Mar 2012 19:21:20 -0000 Date: 21 Mar 2012 20:21:38 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Francisco Obispo" In-Reply-To: References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:21:45 -0000 >> But when some random ISP in Asia has bugs in the data they return, what exactly do you expect clients to do? > > Prevent them from using the information as valid.. treating it as > garbage, or sending it for a human for review. That's pretty funny. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From vesely@tana.it Wed Mar 21 12:28:46 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF2521F8596 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:28:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.657 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.657 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GrgiV2lsVrI8 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (wmail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F0B21F85D4 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:28:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332358124; bh=ZgT7bg6M6Sqb+DHPlPl349i8xNVhTb/9r5JG6uscKiA=; l=1210; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ea19QxVadmE92HT5L+jyHGIrLwwTnULPL4xYn6TbZCaipDpBWeLOfnY7wGifUXW1E lUqRqKEUC9W2T55bovjttChHg3/f20TMEPZKIdX6x7UKLurHd1JrnnuRESYb3igyhe cXDuO/jwf/aOd+eQ7ZFLr73Un2OpAqJt7a6vlMR0= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:28:44 +0100 id 00000000005DC033.000000004F6A2BEC.00001AE4 Message-ID: <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:28:44 +0100 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:28:46 -0000 The last snippet of the last but one paragraph is not clear to me. On 20/Mar/12 21:24, Andy Newton wrote: > > but with the explicit additional goals of producing a simple, > easy-to-implement protocol, supporting internationalized > registration data and, specifically for name registries, a data > model capturing the needs of internationalized domain names. Overall, the text makes it clear that the framework and the mandatory format are unique. For data models, only that phrase is given. Possibly, it should be said that there will be two data models, one for names and one for numbers. I don't think i18n features are only needed by names, as we'd better accommodate RFC 653x contacts anyway. Can the charter mention what kind of extensibility we aim for? I know that this has to be discussed further, but unifying frameworks could support a variety of model variations, which is different than designing for simple clients that need to access whichever server transparently. Perhaps, the charter could speak about working out what are the elements that are actually part of all known object templates --capturing such work in its own milestone remains a valuable task, IMHO. From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Wed Mar 21 12:42:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E51C921E80E3 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:42:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.109, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wF39LCXhRan2 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE6221E80D7 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 84FEC1ECB41D for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:42:07 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:42:05 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120321194205.GL48500@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> <9389195D-0EA0-4219-8798-A0F37CC1EA9B@arin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:42:09 -0000 On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 07:32:57PM +0100, John R. Levine wrote: > say, we're going to pick something that works for us. The names > people say, no, you have to wait for us so that it can be the same. > Now what? Now the chairs and AD do their job? Seriously, yes, I see what you are worried about; but this worry is true for every single WG in the IETF. We can always end up with a $your_favourite_nutbar participating. WG failure is always possible in the presence of enough ill will. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From andy@arin.net Wed Mar 21 13:04:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA03921E80E5 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:04:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hfUGulEa3hGM for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC8921E80C1 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:04:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 8F969213678; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F9D72135F2; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:04:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:04:16 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:04:28 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Andrew Sullivan Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNB5EMrSqJgQAueUytTOQsxJqVfZZ1aU+AgAAGPAA= Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:04:25 +0000 Message-ID: <7188B77B-1196-4C8D-881F-303309C7FF12@arin.net> References: <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> <9389195D-0EA0-4219-8798-A0F37CC1EA9B@arin.net> <20120321194205.GL48500@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120321194205.GL48500@mail.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.35.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8A91B05F59A61F43A198C453078D7A44@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:04:38 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Seriously, yes, I see what you are worried about; but this worry is > true for every single WG in the IETF. We can always end up with a > $your_favourite_nutbar participating. WG failure is always possible > in the presence of enough ill will. The threat John speaks of isn't a scalar but a vector. Yes, WG failure is always a possibility. That is something the IETF tries v= ery hard to avoid, first by not chartering ones that look like they will fa= il. -andy= From andy@hxr.us Wed Mar 21 13:10:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C299A21F86D8 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:10:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NSB1PIqOFhoZ for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83FB321F86B5 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so1453940ghb.31 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:10:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=8wdV94VRBsj9ipXFdvvB9XkYqVXYQQaCGKFaHnfdh6A=; b=YNja1zKYnb/VX3vFuebP5PrMDPwWQdkhiSiSX0gscU5mwZaUFy9TAfFxAoVsMBnClj QVi6+LNvMjSaqF/n5mPQO/UEXxOHb69rm22X+FrtunHfk0YmKrReH6Q6iZhsjaz52lFp b9MxHJWAUbNzaKngoYrNvQsl+FN2MBET5hURr4FXDvhlfb45BlGtjAwseqeu7psTEfR+ aiI6/E/jS5eNf0bSuL1lHgpez/VlNVoJpm+sVJq9C2sjYrLIH0s8nGLd2mTondE+PYPh ZI25tAypkcJKMbgafAvHm8CiEf0c0DkT93W+zAWSH8BTLXZJXpjtAikokn0V6UJpWNQa CN7g== Received: by 10.100.243.15 with SMTP id q15mr1628064anh.81.1332360634144; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:500:4:35::153? ([2001:500:4:35::153]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p15sm3469192ani.15.2012.03.21.13.10.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:10:27 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> To: Edward Lewis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkkwtrU/mSObSXVFmckmVqr1srvzlnkpb5YQCkp/iV/4KF+1uFmVEuoj2FGi4CwILwpHqAC Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:10:37 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Edward Lewis wrote: > The goal of the WG is to produce standards-track specifications for = both number and name registries. However, the number registries have = more experience with these services and have found common ground with = their dissimilarities resulting in more complete working group input = documents. Hence the intended approach of the WG is to begin with the = number registry input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and = draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response [*]. The same fashion and = pattern will be applied to the name registry documents. >=20 > [*] - and open to the suggestion of the third document. >=20 > I did a lot of cut'n'paste to retain as much of the "fashion and = pattern" of the proposed charter text. My re-wording attempt is to = remove the notion of the proposed approach as a goal. I.e., the goal is = the set of final documents, not following the proscribed approach. Works for me. -andy= From dave.piscitello@icann.org Wed Mar 21 13:12:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD9521F86FD for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:12:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vgKowxx42Zpf for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB3B621F86F9 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:12:58 -0700 From: Dave Piscitello To: Andy Newton Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:12:54 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: Ac0HnwHTspgIPoFIRreJ6bz1jnDXhg== Message-ID: References: <20120320231155.75321.qmail@joyce.lan> <9389195D-0EA0-4219-8798-A0F37CC1EA9B@arin.net> <20120321194205.GL48500@mail.yitter.info> <7188B77B-1196-4C8D-881F-303309C7FF12@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <7188B77B-1196-4C8D-881F-303309C7FF12@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:12:59 -0000 +1 Adding complexity or variables to the minimalist and reasonably simplified= charter under discussion should thus be avoided. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 21, 2012, at 8:05 PM, "Andy Newton" wrote: >=20 > On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >=20 >> Seriously, yes, I see what you are worried about; but this worry is >> true for every single WG in the IETF. We can always end up with a >> $your_favourite_nutbar participating. WG failure is always possible >> in the presence of enough ill will. >=20 > The threat John speaks of isn't a scalar but a vector. >=20 > Yes, WG failure is always a possibility. That is something the IETF tries= very hard to avoid, first by not chartering ones that look like they will = fail. >=20 > -andy > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From andy@hxr.us Wed Mar 21 13:22:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E442121E8111 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:22:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H7yKsoIAT-Xh for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40D021E8118 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ghbg16 with SMTP id g16so1464765ghb.31 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:22:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=AuW6idx7yUITeMXaYIEMR8y4LchLAFi59JPvvEwzmG8=; b=GNMqSdOEPMwGJNjo1rO+7FKnEmed5vxCWXDq20vdiX0RYqE/FMTQYPYARud5vWbjY8 TxYVhVsbwVynLx3KxVgJ+BUNanydSWdvsmczeuyK+1umuOwAD3A35jJPCEbfQ6t6e/3E f9l21pI9fQ9+2o/BQnHzNnZ3zRXv1moLvaFaqEpAMf1eErBZfEcHDH1A7M/oXMFO7ZM3 9WOBfYTaHLqf7XKE50evijuU6022VFUbMotld8DVsj0ZFNT7hX5hy6YN68fUHHXTLXd2 MKmYxe7V+0fuAUu1zIRg23qpRC6DUIUcFg9u4AGgB/2vvP64Uolqdd4GhRYJ8fcJdw7M PtsQ== Received: by 10.236.175.36 with SMTP id y24mr5376536yhl.64.1332361321437; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:500:4:35::153? ([2001:500:4:35::153]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z27sm7165544yhh.8.2012.03.21.13.21.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:21:56 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> To: Alessandro Vesely X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmRj0+aNxSZ+Gx1s81fkNWOR60xmoXOkJ1Levh79nt18SnzcTmsVDrP50VoW7IwUxMq4hR1 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:22:03 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:28 PM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > On 20/Mar/12 21:24, Andy Newton wrote: >>=20 >> but with the explicit additional goals of producing a simple, >> easy-to-implement protocol, supporting internationalized >> registration data and, specifically for name registries, a data >> model capturing the needs of internationalized domain names. >=20 > Overall, the text makes it clear that the framework and the mandatory > format are unique. For data models, only that phrase is given. I do not understand the clarification being requested here. Can you = elaborate? > Possibly, it should be said that there will be two data models, one > for names and one for numbers. I don't think i18n features are only > needed by names, as we'd better accommodate RFC 653x contacts anyway. Though there will likely be two, there is the possibility of there only = being one. But you are right that internationalization issues apply to = both. But I thought that was being said. > Can the charter mention what kind of extensibility we aim for? I know > that this has to be discussed further, but unifying frameworks could > support a variety of model variations, which is different than > designing for simple clients that need to access whichever server > transparently. Perhaps, the charter could speak about working out > what are the elements that are actually part of all known object > templates --capturing such work in its own milestone remains a > valuable task, IMHO. Just thinking here, but maybe that could go in the requirements = document. -andy From msk@cloudmark.com Wed Mar 21 13:34:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC73921E8102 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:34:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b0ZsnSVLOw1L for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B4121E8124 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by EXCH-HTCAS901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2966:6846:8d89:4681%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:34:33 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNB5Ust3xt/ZrGSEC60Wm6YULo5pZ1NMMQ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:34:33 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280961EA@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> <20120321153931.GG48500@mail.yitter.info> <4F6A07D1.20209@gmail.com> <7DA0994D-5A55-4035-ACE5-513F38139BAD@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <7DA0994D-5A55-4035-ACE5-513F38139BAD@arin.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:34:36 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Andy Newton > Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:02 PM > To: > Cc: > Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-ica= nn-rws-dnrd-01.txt >=20 > Are you buying? Because, my friend, you haven't enough money if this > thread is any indication of how that discussion will go. We're certainly earning our name. :-) From patrick@vande-walle.eu Wed Mar 21 13:55:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D6C21F86A6 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:55:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fu6GArVydSx5 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucifer.abilit.eu (lucifer.abilit.eu [85.93.218.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8889C21F855D for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 13:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu (unknown [10.10.13.199]) by lucifer.abilit.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BC343600F5; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:55:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FBA30060B; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:55:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.isoc.lu [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16741-02; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:55:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from Cioran.vande-walle.eu (185.53-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be [87.65.53.185]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: patrick@vande-walle.eu) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E6F0930043F; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:55:10 +0100 (CET) VBR-Info: md=vande-walle.eu; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=vande-walle.eu; s=Sig; t=1332363311; bh=ll8N1yY9sHuAqcj0BB6olqZrIq2zclZh5TIZBxCZnsw=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=g1A4Fc7R8HtcSXDknh9ztc+u6A4twECmzcF8HTiPTe4Vs6nfVzzS2JZnhuy2A2pFd 2w8Kc8cR+1fsAlUiiPdfCfw+sT0tWYgm1ckO2FKKlvVp4Y02eHi50I7OLUWrV8utP3 pvAQWd6wTAREhOFUridB/7IR0I8vWZPqgP5ybP9s= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Cioran.vande-walle.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A39D2413AA; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:55:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:55:07 +0100 From: Patrick Vande Walle Organization: My own disorganization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120310 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.4 (mail2.isoc.lu); Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:55:11 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: patrick@vande-walle.eu List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 20:55:29 -0000 Andy, On 20/03/12 21:24, Andy Newton wrote: > The WHOIS protocol does not offer any differential service; it > cannot differentiate among clients to offer different subsets of > information or to allow different access rates to it. > [snip] > The > purpose of this working group is to broaden the use of RESTful web > services by achieving simple and common URI patterns and responses > amenable to all number resource and domain name registries. > Your draft charter rightfully refers to the inability of WHOIS to serve different outputs targetting different audiences, which is a major deficiency of the current situation. However, the part about the purpose of the WG does not seem to address the need to provide those differential services. I suggest to add language to that effect. Another draft charter used the following sentence: "Support for differential service levels according to different classes of user" . With such an addition, I would support your draft. Patrick Vande Walle From bill.smith@paypal-inc.com Wed Mar 21 15:42:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A8021E8143 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:42:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.117 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.117 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9mCvh5C9dgvc for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from den-mipot-002.corp.ebay.com (den-mipot-002.corp.ebay.com [216.113.175.153]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7F121E805A for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 15:42:14 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=ppinc; d=paypal-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-EBay-Corp:X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC: Subject:Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:x-ems-proccessed: x-ems-stamp:Content-Type:Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version:X-CFilter; b=eiwubypiGq7vp9ceCbgMwiw88J8HnW0GChbUCbxn3qxhogAtAiMAFug9 Y5/9hczjFE3BR5TrgYhLV4VJ1URIQxSPGdFNKD2FnEvjomQWnbCBRao/V 84c5xAJXJzPeb8G; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=paypal-inc.com; i=bill.smith@paypal-inc.com; q=dns/txt; s=ppinc; t=1332369734; x=1363905734; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=b5aaHZgTEQosVOvFwF4a+9jJrmBVqFiDvY/qcJlzq3k=; b=IBwMjYKb5zlp+kT+zRfZ3nFPn+rQRMris3tnOSpmmPuDFXwO0bL8wxOd JmEQsfs7N8Z8il+FwHSLZDZWrKPvLdQaObBeoHZkO3G00woImPKMhyq0K RBR/MwtLvPZXqeU; X-EBay-Corp: Yes X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,626,1325491200"; d="scan'208";a="7163609" Received: from den-vtenf-002.corp.ebay.com (HELO DEN-EXMHT-004.corp.ebay.com) ([10.101.112.213]) by den-mipot-002.corp.ebay.com with ESMTP; 21 Mar 2012 15:42:13 -0700 Received: from DEN-EXDDA-S12.corp.ebay.com ([fe80::40c1:9cf7:d21e:46c]) by DEN-EXMHT-004.corp.ebay.com ([fe80::a487:c570:9abc:bb59%14]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:42:13 -0600 From: "Smith, Bill" To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHNB6IjlITgl9dywE6b8X4WUgkMz5Z1uq4A Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 22:42:12 +0000 Message-ID: <0C45F0C4-4308-490E-AF89-F7A8929F51ED@paypal.com> References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <9CE1C82A-3EED-47EA-B39B-E2EC1D660598@lacnic.net> <0A5D71D7-73D3-4736-8FEC-D0252B1263C0@isc.org> <20120321153931.GG48500@mail.yitter.info> <4F6A07D1.20209@gmail.com> <7DA0994D-5A55-4035-ACE5-513F38139BAD@arin.net> <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280961EA@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280961EA@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ems-proccessed: 10SqDH0iR7ekR7SRpKqm5A== x-ems-stamp: R9MjuVi25vrD2L8qoJImQA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8F511BF552B1FC41904330F24D2838C9@corp.ebay.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter: Scanned Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 22:42:15 -0000 +1 On Mar 21, 2012, at 3:35 PM, "Murray S. Kucherawy" wrot= e: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf= Of Andy Newton >> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:02 PM >> To: >> Cc: >> Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-ic= ann-rws-dnrd-01.txt >>=20 >> Are you buying? Because, my friend, you haven't enough money if this >> thread is any indication of how that discussion will go. >=20 > We're certainly earning our name. :-) > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Wed Mar 21 21:54:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F0321F854C for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:54:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UmtpJxSzY32u for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9983021F8548 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 21:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2LIKAoU077179; Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:20:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6A4485.6040001@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:13:41 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francisco Obispo References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <4F69EC16.9040001@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:54:32 -0000 On 3/21/12 11:18 AM, Francisco Obispo wrote: > Not really/necessary, really? see below. > Port 43 format is free text, and with >240 ccTLDs, gTLDs, RIRs, and oth= ers, it is easy to see how different those implementations would be... i hope most everyone subscribed to this mailing list is remotely aware of ... (a) that 954 et seq is delightfully specified as c: [::printable::]\r\n s: .*\r\n , and (b) there is more than one operator of a :43 server. however, i'm not aware of the indistinguishability of necessity or utility for human, or subhuman, parsing of data available at every :43 server. if you're suggesting that the necessity and utility of a means to parse the :43 return from the .tf (terres australes et antarctiques fran=E7aises) server is indistinguishable from the necessity and utility of a means to parse the :43 return from the .com server, i find it hard to agree. to generalize slightly, there exists correlations, both of trademark necessity and utility, and law enforcement necessity and utility, and some whois data sources and formats, and there also exist correlations in some whois data sources and formats and registry backend operators. so i suggest that the 80% rule is more likely to be useful than some 100% rule, and 80% of the use and variation amounts to a much smaller number of servers than ~400. > Perhaps ICANN has some details on a whois study. at least one person contributing to this charter discussion has spent years on icann whois working groups and is aware of their various studies. the data may skew towards some correlations i mentioned earlier, and overlook one or more of the ~400 sources of data. -e From andy@arin.net Thu Mar 22 01:05:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9FE21F858E for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:05:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z7RceYLox+aI for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F097421F860B for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 40D0621368E; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C2D213678 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:05:14 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:05:51 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Something WEIRDS This Way Comes Thread-Index: AQHNCAKYmVFuz47Ir06aepJdHMtYcA== Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:05:50 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8EC7BA8F76B10D418AA44C2940B46105@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Something WEIRDS This Way Comes X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:05:54 -0000 In the IETF Journal this month: http://www.internetsociety.org/articles/something-weirds-way-comes -andy From andy@hxr.us Thu Mar 22 01:11:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC7C221F862A for ; 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([2001:500:4:34::156]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i4sm5391070anm.5.2012.03.22.01.11.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:11:00 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> To: patrick@vande-walle.eu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmNzboMBThyca5KRWRtZ79MWY7Po8QMVMzr5uxjCn28LbI7E7iztSccBECysxubwHZ5ehKU Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:11:07 -0000 On Mar 21, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > Your draft charter rightfully refers to the inability of WHOIS to > serve different outputs targetting different audiences, which is a > major deficiency of the current situation.=20 > However, the part about the purpose of the WG does not seem to = address > the need to provide those differential services. =20 >=20 > I suggest to add language to that effect. Another draft charter used = the > following sentence: "Support for differential service levels = according > to different classes of user" .=20 Patrick, We make specific mention of using HTTP and HTTPS, which provides many = authentication mechanisms upon which authorization schemes can be used = to provide differentiated services. Therefore, I do not think there is a = need to explicitly state support of differential service levels as that = just comes with using HTTP. Does that satisfy your concern? -andy= From sm@resistor.net Thu Mar 22 01:31:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 139EB21F8624 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:31:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.629 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.629 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dsE87j3YCUGc for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 461B621F8613 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2M8Vm0G022207 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:31:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1332405112; i=@resistor.net; bh=Sy/fjpf6fY1c0JOXnKuBM/PTLzd1u/h30tLe5yRGWUM=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=BB+kmVbX8szobG1uAzpXaZWCyCCg+LOy5H9Ba1+beaQL1Gtm5N5w657FkeOGmx3ri 27poIFEQn+s9G1G2lLqGeGQVGN4DRK20cIwMy3/MTYFf95AHNFLjLra527IhKRDi4n eR7WnTixt7c/YA8V5WybwW4MqsolX156t5WOS+AA= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1332405112; i=@resistor.net; bh=Sy/fjpf6fY1c0JOXnKuBM/PTLzd1u/h30tLe5yRGWUM=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=BM/GGhjSirrash8nDi3aE9+crWbuP1bcL2pWyuCnaZEtY7/mJIyoOpWSe8UA8xNRp idN7ZBqgwUBlRz6mvX6PHJg732abawEAdVZmzaesVBJdzfSUP1NbGw/iFbWVllpElL 2hxd4dpHdcQaZYHZalULUAkgVo7CDVYTgDczxs9Y= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120322013033.094c5260@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:31:27 -0700 To: weirds@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [weirds] Something WEIRDS This Way Comes X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:31:59 -0000 At 01:05 22-03-2012, Andy Newton wrote: >In the IETF Journal this month: >http://www.internetsociety.org/articles/something-weirds-way-comes Is naive programmers a requirement? :-) Regards, -sm From carlosm3011@gmail.com Thu Mar 22 03:15:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C9F21F865C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:15:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.953 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.953 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.646, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wz1w9ZWRsMVR for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com (mail-qa0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B8E21F864C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:15:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qaea16 with SMTP id a16so218341qae.10 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:15:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date:to; bh=K/u1k7BMjViQss6n7yOCXoQCrRbG62IiVUU0qyuKW4M=; b=ZD4iOYul/OiAxJQuRWtVitc/N/lk1KMc/ZelDbeOIl9KZdXvZ3gYZJ29QPtetEISlb qVjwcL9CXp3Gdmj+tLGsvGEDYfiIX3t6N92nc6MCIWgTKU+/IpdNCmg449EeycgsjmqL LRWAJhUJHNnRW9QRBi9RVqVP7LHlNYs23T+KCmZRpg2VJPoTSIhgWRId6nkaWGJevxJR ez/2OZSKvrlJ6gbw6TLYNfvT247uZW4OlRyI+jss/7HGlXUVKCOBEkqR0Uan0YhFbIMN bV4RV5pntiUbybp6qZjVoO9qLYoEhQy/OSYQHF6zHO5UnRBB+7Yk1YfTzbwNDqczEz9o R3xw== Received: by 10.224.110.209 with SMTP id o17mr10190698qap.2.1332411327899; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.233] (r186-53-67-96.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy. [186.53.67.96]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ef6sm7701329qab.7.2012.03.22.03.15.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:15:26 -0700 (PDT) References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-Id: <8267C0B4-5E5B-4450-AA95-8F7BDB7BAF95@gmail.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9A405) From: "Carlos M. Martinez" Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:15:23 -0300 To: Andy Newton Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Something WEIRDS This Way Comes X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:15:29 -0000 Good writing Andy, congrats :-) Sent from my iPad On Mar 22, 2012, at 5:05 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > In the IETF Journal this month: > http://www.internetsociety.org/articles/something-weirds-way-comes > > -andy > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Thu Mar 22 03:17:09 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889DD21F8650 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:17:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.323 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.323 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.275, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mKqfWZI-yzoU for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.nominet.org.uk (mx4.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.24]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE0721F864C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:17:08 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: MIME-Version; b=VVpT5q2CpEi92dg4KEEuY5v9d9FajLPSGK1E/qDSR5kgVLZtGFBDn0E2 GBaONKEga6bP1fak4qFdtWI6TABVTaN6rLVN3AzrQJPkdkzMQaAGRAN2Z K3yWc3AANO284NA; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1332411428; x=1363947428; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20REVISED=20Re:=20=20a=20chart er=20offering=20compromise|Date:=20Thu,=2022=20Mar=202012 =2010:17:16=20+0000|Message-ID:=20<3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91D C-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk>|To:=20"weirds@ietf.org"=20 |MIME-Version:=201.0|In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20< 57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net>=0D=0A=20<1 6641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com>=0D =0A=20<6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net>=0D =0A=20<6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net>=0D =0A=20<5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us>=0D=0A =20<4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu>=0D=0A=20; bh=R2SAqo72qOtPXz+mxdUclCbZVESvtjd1ceMdflfc+jQ=; b=tHrz/WiWR5RuP6dcsReNZ9SE/GJdDUomo5Oa3pleEDZs+hDOgWxKS6xb 51kCugaQs33r2qXB7Dh76x3DVqTxi9dtW/SPixm8dYN3WGr9Gpee9UNl2 kbkLuWo7hHexKlk; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,629,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="32120396" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx4.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2012 10:17:07 +0000 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:17:06 +0000 From: Ray Bellis To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBteHsXAr0rURTU2jh2Albh3wJpZ1PBuAgAC81wCAACNIAA== Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:17:16 +0000 Message-ID: <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3FCFB43C3E95499B91DC6BA50B9A38D1nominetorguk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:17:09 -0000 --_000_3FCFB43C3E95499B91DC6BA50B9A38D1nominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 22 Mar 2012, at 08:11, Andy Newton wrote: We make specific mention of using HTTP and HTTPS, which provides many authe= ntication mechanisms upon which authorization schemes can be used to provid= e differentiated services. Therefore, I do not think there is a need to exp= licitly state support of differential service levels as that just comes wit= h using HTTP. +1, and it's a point I made at the mic in Taipei. IMHO we should be defining _nothing_ in the WEIRDS specifications about: - authentication - access control - rate limiting other than to note that all these MAY be provided at the HTTP layer. Ray --_000_3FCFB43C3E95499B91DC6BA50B9A38D1nominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9e9c2f47-05a0-4718-bdb3-eb3cd3a2a0e0> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 22 Mar 2012, at 08:1= 1, Andy Newton wrote:

We make specific mention of us= ing HTTP and HTTPS, which provides many authentication mechanisms upon whic= h authorization schemes can be used to provide differentiated services. The= refore, I do not think there is a need to explicitly state support of diffe= rential service levels as that just comes with using HTTP.

+1, and it's a point I made at the mic in Tai= pei.

IMHO we should be defining _nothing_ in the W= EIRDS specifications about:

- authentication
=
- access control
- rate limiting

ot= her than to note that all these MAY be provided at the HTTP layer.

Ray

= --_000_3FCFB43C3E95499B91DC6BA50B9A38D1nominetorguk_-- From aservin@lacnic.net Thu Mar 22 03:33:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C03D21F867D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:33:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.172 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.172 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.261, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HOST_EQ_DIALUP=0.862, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pxuNrpl1yyYp for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC14C21F866C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 03:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (r186-48-208-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy [186.48.208.4]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE6930844D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:32:56 -0300 (UYT) From: Arturo Servin Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4--229626996 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:32:54 -0300 In-Reply-To: <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> Message-Id: <6E3050E3-414E-4E1E-9A11-BB20DA624CE6@lacnic.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 10:33:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail-4--229626996 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Possibly in the future someone would like to document (and = perhaps standardise) how they are doing authentication, access control, = rate limiting; I think that would be ok. But I do not think that we need = to add it in the charter now. Regards, /as On 22 Mar 2012, at 07:17, Ray Bellis wrote: >=20 > On 22 Mar 2012, at 08:11, Andy Newton wrote: >>=20 >> We make specific mention of using HTTP and HTTPS, which provides many = authentication mechanisms upon which authorization schemes can be used = to provide differentiated services. Therefore, I do not think there is a = need to explicitly state support of differential service levels as that = just comes with using HTTP. >=20 > +1, and it's a point I made at the mic in Taipei. >=20 > IMHO we should be defining _nothing_ in the WEIRDS specifications = about: >=20 > - authentication > - access control > - rate limiting >=20 > other than to note that all these MAY be provided at the HTTP layer. >=20 > Ray >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail-4--229626996 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Possibly in the future someone = would like to document (and perhaps standardise) how they are = doing authentication, access control, rate limiting; I = think that would be ok. But I do not think that we need to add it in the = charter = now.

Regards,
/as

<= div>
On 22 Mar 2012, at 07:17, Ray Bellis = wrote:


We make specific mention of using = HTTP and HTTPS, which provides many authentication mechanisms upon which = authorization schemes can be used to provide differentiated services. = Therefore, I do not think there is a need to explicitly state support of = differential service levels as that just comes with using = HTTP.

+1, and it's a point I = made at the mic in Taipei.

IMHO we should be = defining _nothing_ in the WEIRDS specifications = about:

- authentication
- access = control
- rate limiting

other than to = note that all these MAY be provided at the HTTP = layer.

Ray

____________= ___________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds

= --Apple-Mail-4--229626996-- From steve.sheng@icann.org Thu Mar 22 04:48:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08DED21F86B0 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:48:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yYcM1dt-G05R for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7939B21F86B5 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:48:35 -0700 From: Steve Sheng To: Ray Bellis Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 04:46:52 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: Ac0IIbatNi92Xj3CQh25J4LJKn1Epg== Message-ID: <0001B972-38B5-4400-AF59-F8FB46DE267E@icann.org> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0001B97238B54400AF59F8FB46DE267Eicannorg_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:48:37 -0000 --_000_0001B97238B54400AF59F8FB46DE267Eicannorg_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:27:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MsZWJ-WwLg6A for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F130821F867C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id A973021367A; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6591E2135AB; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:27:26 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:27:42 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Steve Sheng Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBteI5Hw6W2u7Ukeivtr702/NO5Z1fyqAgAC81wCAACNHAIAAGQkAgAALaYA= Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:27:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> <0001B972-38B5-4400-AF59-F8FB46DE267E@icann.org> In-Reply-To: <0001B972-38B5-4400-AF59-F8FB46DE267E@icann.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2F83C35170369B439953CE901F7D09CA@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:27:44 -0000 On Mar 22, 2012, at 7:46 AM, Steve Sheng wrote: > +1 to Andy and Ray on this point.=20 >=20 > At the protocol level, it maybe helpful to define error messages such as = "resource not permitted". The 401 or 403 error codes should be sufficient for this purpose. -andy= From andy@arin.net Thu Mar 22 05:31:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 501DA21F863C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:31:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fdPHP+iywkCL for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4BB521F8624 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 4F741164F69; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB94164F62; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:30:59 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:31:15 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: SM Thread-Topic: [weirds] Something WEIRDS This Way Comes Thread-Index: AQHNCAKYmVFuz47Ir06aepJdHMtYcJZ2P2GAgABDAIA= Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:31:13 +0000 Message-ID: <6876811B-99EE-46E0-BA2B-A8C12CF963AC@arin.net> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120322013033.094c5260@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120322013033.094c5260@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] Something WEIRDS This Way Comes X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:31:21 -0000 On Mar 22, 2012, at 4:31 AM, SM wrote: > Is naive programmers a requirement? :-) There has yet to be an RFC moving them to Historic status, so yes. ;) -andy From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 22 05:39:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 673A021F857F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:39:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gOL7BLQiz3GX for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C262621F8542 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2M9jhaT084176 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:45:44 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6B1D7C.1040202@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:39:24 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:39:31 -0000 On 3/22/12 6:17 AM, Ray Bellis wrote: > IMHO we should be defining _nothing_ in the WEIRDS specifications about: > > - authentication > - access control > - rate limiting > > other than to note that all these MAY be provided at the HTTP layer. > if, and only if, the mechanisms to support these are present in transport, then the specification of such is redundant, in theory. but a commitment to offer not even bcp advise to implementers is indifferent to policy. whois has been the means to get around the bulk access provision for ages, and several studies show that email addresses that exist in no other original machine readable form other than in regist(ry|rar) published data are acquired in a timely fashion by economically motivated third-parties and subsequently trafficked in "mailing lists". we are offering to author yet another publish-upon-create mechanism, in an environment in which the (shades of gray) industry standard "client" is a bot set. now suppose this is correct, and weirds is mum on authentication. we've assumed that that any non-global semantic, e.g., the authentication requirements for access to personal information held by a registry in some jurisdiction, are already met by http. having been involved in some of the http work (state management mechanism and personal information in particular, in the w3c's p3p spec, and also in several of the http working groups), i don't think support for jurisdictionally scoped authentication ever was ever in scope*. whether labeled as "privacy" or "data protection", whether arising from private contract or public law, some requirement(s) exist which are (a) specific to personally identifying information, and (b) not the default for connections over http. so i think a "note" that these "may" be provided by transport is not quite sufficient. -e * the original jaye cookie spec contained metadata related to data collection, and a digital signature. we intended to the digital signature to provide jurisdictionally scoped authentication. as the dsig xml spec was immature, we dropped this half of the cookie metadata, while switching from key-value pairs to xml for the remaining metadata, in those xml-was-fashionable times. From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 22 05:46:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F7D21F86A2 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:46:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5QIcVo3GIxlF for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA0E21F86A0 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2M9r2Z3084248; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 05:53:02 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6B1F32.9050806@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:46:42 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francisco Obispo References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <4F69EC16.9040001@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:46:49 -0000 From patrick@vande-walle.eu Thu Mar 22 06:08:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2285321F8602 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:08:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.98 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.98 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hpss78BpngVP for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucifer.abilit.eu (lucifer.abilit.eu [85.93.218.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AF8A21F85FB for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:08:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu (unknown [10.10.13.199]) by lucifer.abilit.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E103C3600F6; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:08:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19EF301615; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:08:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.isoc.lu [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09672-05; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:08:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from Cioran.vande-walle.eu (unknown [147.67.4.98]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: patrick@vande-walle.eu) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 193FF301613; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:08:11 +0100 (CET) VBR-Info: md=vande-walle.eu; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=vande-walle.eu; s=Sig; t=1332421691; bh=x94C++xwpfT62cnl0UdqsfkLiRG8G2gwFRrqyrWT3Wo=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=KsX1N044E8GpGr2u9xG72IB6TFKIwg/PgeU1QnaXZWfieLXzumwngQxcRphkI4eWi ySsMfuLR44kCMQKlmD2mQMzJ2bAientxiKM4+/qtNb4C9unEgEAMxjO35skeJPtuh9 s5AelWWVGyZGh0moPgt3oULC+4ABfWgD/EoxdCgE= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Cioran.vande-walle.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED807241C33; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:08:07 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4F6B2437.5090203@vande-walle.eu> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:08:07 +0100 From: Patrick Vande Walle Organization: My own disorganization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120310 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ray Bellis References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.4 (mail2.isoc.lu); Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:08:11 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: patrick@vande-walle.eu List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:08:31 -0000 On 22/03/12 11:17, Ray Bellis wrote: > > On 22 Mar 2012, at 08:11, Andy Newton wrote: >> >> We make specific mention of using HTTP and HTTPS, which provides many >> authentication mechanisms upon which authorization schemes can be >> used to provide differentiated services. Therefore, I do not think >> there is a need to explicitly state support of differential service >> levels as that just comes with using HTTP. > > +1, and it's a point I made at the mic in Taipei. > > IMHO we should be defining _nothing_ in the WEIRDS specifications about: > > - authentication > - access control > - rate limiting > > other than to note that all these MAY be provided at the HTTP layer. > > Ray As Andy notes, there are several ways to authenticate to a HTTP server. If there are no guidelines for implementation, there is a risk that different registries will implement this in a different manner. This would require the client side to know in advance which authentication method should be used for each registry. If it was only for 5 RIR registries, it would be manageable. For several hundreds of TLDs, this is quite a different context. Patrick Vande Walle From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Thu Mar 22 06:13:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 535AF21F86A4 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:13:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.332 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.266, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OF7AER1QSxAg for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mail.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 653EE21F85F8 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:13:31 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=i2woP5t7u33AVVvHeI3+CLwH9x16yUAeRTunA2rTEYrap2G5KA1yeRRd bKATlRO0FOzFlTiHvsTaJ4uAU3E0jhZkjiusbewIbi7DYTjGVAuY4jcQ6 ktCY+jYSVSpZB3u; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1332422011; x=1363958011; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20REVISED=20Re:=20=20a=20chart er=20offering=20compromise|Date:=20Thu,=2022=20Mar=202012 =2013:13:39=20+0000|Message-ID:=20|To:=20""=20|CC:=20"weirds@ietf.org" =20|MIME-Version:=201.0 |Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted-printable |Content-ID:=20<7bf8f7f3-6d20-413c-8679-e62fe2b7e383> |In-Reply-To:=20<4F6B2437.5090203@vande-walle.eu> |References:=20<57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin .net>=0D=0A=20<16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email .android.com>=0D=0A=20<6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@ resistor.net>=0D=0A=20<6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81 FE@arin.net>=0D=0A=20<5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD7 5@hxr.us>=0D=0A=20<4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu>=0D=0A =20=0D=0A=20 <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk>=0D =0A=20<4F6B2437.5090203@vande-walle.eu>; bh=3TIvnpi1/eLmLg7aykNfT6cXR5s/M9SLiTxRGT41oGI=; b=W/6OxuHXYkcswancgaUGICqmvuWVa4C7I6Bx7sKDZtSCFxeWUfxk+6c2 HZvvnHevalmRKJfBUyY9IedMVet6wHSEZJMhl7XJhhxNKcyKr6Mz6tfL1 Vsp8qeHN8zwgCg9; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,630,1325462400"; d="scan'208";a="39267890" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 22 Mar 2012 13:13:29 +0000 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:13:29 +0000 From: Ray Bellis To: "" Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBteHsXAr0rURTU2jh2Albh3wJpZ1PBuAgAC81wCAACNIAIAAL7yAgAABjIA= Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:13:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> <4F6B2437.5090203@vande-walle.eu> In-Reply-To: <4F6B2437.5090203@vande-walle.eu> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <7bf8f7f3-6d20-413c-8679-e62fe2b7e383> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:13:32 -0000 On 22 Mar 2012, at 13:08, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: >=20 > As Andy notes, there are several ways to authenticate to a HTTP server.=20 > If there are no guidelines for implementation, there is a risk that > different registries will implement this in a different manner. This > would require the client side to know in advance which authentication > method should be used for each registry. If it was only for 5 RIR > registries, it would be manageable. For several hundreds of TLDs, this > is quite a different context.=20 >=20 Yes, that's fair. I have no problem with "profiling" HTTP(s) to make recom= mendations on which authentication methods should be used, and which respon= se codes are appropriate. I'm strongly opposed to any of this stuff ending up in the layers above HTT= P. Ray From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu Mar 22 06:21:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF0B21F85EF for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:21:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.491 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.491 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K7zSSKfdsH1V for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D65A321F85D7 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF0251ECB41D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:21:27 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:21:19 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:21:29 -0000 On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 04:11:00AM -0400, Andy Newton wrote: > We make specific mention of using HTTP and HTTPS, which provides > many authentication mechanisms upon which authorization schemes can > be used to provide differentiated services. Therefore, I do not > think there is a need to explicitly state support of differential > service levels as that just comes with using HTTP. I disagree with this, although it's not a hill I'll die on. A significant motivator of this work for me is differential service for different clients. By my reckoning, at least half of the current ICANN-source complaints about "problems with WHOIS" (by which is meant bad data) could be solved by reducing the incentives to populate name registration data with falsehoods. The reason for those falsehoods is, at least in part, the fact that WHOIS is an anonymous-access protocol where everyone can get all the data. If we had credential-based differentiation of responses, then registering a domain name would not necessarily be a way to publish your street address to 2 billion people. Something that was specified but that didn't satisfy this need would not, IMO, be much of an advance. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From andy@arin.net Thu Mar 22 06:27:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 138DA21F862A for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:27:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ptNLJ8xuw+Wg for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2EF421F861D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:27:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 87A98164F67; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12AF8164F50; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:26:53 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:27:32 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "" Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBteI5Hw6W2u7Ukeivtr702/NO5Z1fyqAgAC81wCAACNHAIAAL7yAgAAFbQA= Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:27:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> <4F6B2437.5090203@vande-walle.eu> In-Reply-To: <4F6B2437.5090203@vande-walle.eu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7FAE14E66D3B3648969499CFF459D590@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:27:37 -0000 On Mar 22, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: > As Andy notes, there are several ways to authenticate to a HTTP server.=20 > If there are no guidelines for implementation, there is a risk that > different registries will implement this in a different manner. This > would require the client side to know in advance which authentication > method should be used for each registry. If it was only for 5 RIR > registries, it would be manageable. For several hundreds of TLDs, this > is quite a different context.=20 But the method in which to authenticate to the server would depend on the n= eeds of the policy dictating the differentiated service. Iterating over eve= ry possible authentication scheme is simply too broad in scope for any work= ing group. If, however, third parties wish to bring Informational RFCs before the IETF= regarding authentication schemes for review, the working group could set o= ut the guidelines for how such reviews are performed. And the working group= could request the establishment of an IANA registry of such authentication= schemes. But I don't think the working group should actually work on any a= uthentication schemes. Additionally, it is not clear to me that guidelines = for review or an IANA registry are necessary until we know such authenticat= ion schemes are being created. Are any in the works? -andy= From andy@arin.net Thu Mar 22 06:37:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D40421F8617 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:37:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sLOuZSf5IS90 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4BA021F860B for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 97A43164F67; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 338C3164F5E; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:36:51 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:37:08 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "" Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBteI5Hw6W2u7Ukeivtr702/NO5Z1fyqAgAC81wCAACNHAIAAJ7YAgAAQIQA= Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:37:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> <4F6B1D7C.1040202@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: <4F6B1D7C.1040202@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.34.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <79784193344FE545984A57AFC1633062@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:37:10 -0000 On Mar 22, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: > if, and only if, the mechanisms to support these are present in > transport, then the specification of such is redundant, in theory. >=20 > but a commitment to offer not even bcp advise to implementers is > indifferent to policy. [..snip..] > whether labeled as "privacy" or "data protection", whether arising > from private contract or public law, some requirement(s) exist which > are (a) specific to personally identifying information, and (b) not > the default for connections over http. >=20 > so i think a "note" that these "may" be provided by transport is not > quite sufficient. Eric, forgive me as I am not properly caffeinated and I've been misreading = things all morning. Are you suggesting that if an authentication scheme requires the capture of= personally identifying information there are privacy implications, and the= refore some advice should be offered on the handling of that information? -andy= From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 22 06:42:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33DD621F85FB for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:42:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.537 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.537 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pw8QbQWHW1IC for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A765221F85DB for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2MAn0tH084781 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:49:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:42:40 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:42:48 -0000 On 3/22/12 9:21 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > A significant motivator of this work for me is differential service > for different clients. By my reckoning, at least half of the current > ICANN-source complaints about "problems with WHOIS" (by which is meant > bad data) could be solved by reducing the incentives to populate name > registration data with falsehoods. The reason for those falsehoods > is, at least in part, the fact that WHOIS is an anonymous-access > protocol where everyone can get all the data. If we had > credential-based differentiation of responses, then registering a > domain name would not necessarily be a way to publish your street > address to 2 billion people. Something that was specified but that > didn't satisfy this need would not, IMO, be much of an advance. +1. a restatement of the general desire for differential service is the hoary old phrase that " shall not mandate a single model". as i've mentioned earlier, there is no (statistically significant within the data set) bad data in several registries (.aero, .coop, .museum, .cat), so factors other than legitimate user concerns are sources of bad data. something related to competition policy is the tail end of differential service thing, as well as the privacy/data protection issue noted by others. -e From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 22 06:53:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8188421F862A for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:53:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.541 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.541 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UlN7repZmJtq for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E782F21F8419 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2MAxZrE084898; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 06:59:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6B2ECC.50504@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:53:16 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> <4F6B1D7C.1040202@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:53:26 -0000 On 3/22/12 9:37 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > Eric, forgive me as I am not properly caffeinated and I've been misreading things all morning. ditto on the elackocaffine. > Are you suggesting that if an authentication scheme requires the capture of personally identifying information there are privacy implications, and therefore some advice should be offered on the handling of that information? i wrote about the data the registry possesses and will publish, which at least for some endpoint identifiers issued by some allocators (number or name registries), contains personally identifying information. any pii captured during authentication (generally) of access to random (generally) records within the registry's data set is distinct from the pii already present in the data set. there may be jurisdictionally scoped rules for both that are similar, but an authentication/access/rate rule could produce no pii, e.g., if the query is made on a thursday at a minute past midnight, GMT, then there is a response, else not. no pii generated, some a/a/r-l rule implemented, to some policy end, e.g., scrape-reduction. -e From dave.piscitello@icann.org Thu Mar 22 07:35:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6679921F85D7 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:35:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.564 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R2S6RD6bEUeD for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3552321F85CF for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:34:58 -0700 From: Dave Piscitello To: Francisco Obispo Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:34:58 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt Thread-Index: Ac0IOPTkB+r/MqTgSpiC6jQ9LNjl1g== Message-ID: References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> <4F69EC16.9040001@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DE2D69EE-9182-4BFE-BBBA-D56D9FA0897C"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:35:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DE2D69EE-9182-4BFE-BBBA-D56D9FA0897C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When we did a study on prevalence of privacy protected registrations in = 2010, we sampled ~50,000 domains that Spamhaus had placed on the DBL. We = collected Whois for these and needed unique parsers to extract data from = responses of 96 registrars, another 15 for gTLD registries, and 10 for = ccTLDs in our sample. I can't claim for certainty that every ccTLD Whois response pattern is = unique but if ~400 is "high" it's not inordinately high. Also, the = number of parsers is not a constant. Certain registrars change their = responses as an anti-harvesting measure. So over time, if you were = writing parsers, you may have accumulated several for certain = registrars. On Mar 21, 2012, at 11:18 AM, Francisco Obispo wrote: > Not really/necessary, >=20 > Port 43 format is free text, and with >240 ccTLDs, gTLDs, RIRs, and = others, it is easy to see how different those implementations would = be... >=20 > Perhaps ICANN has some details on a whois study. >=20 >=20 > On Mar 21, 2012, at 7:56 AM, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: >=20 >> On 3/21/12 10:26 AM, Francisco Obispo wrote: >>> It's not a matter on whether they will ignore it or not, it's about = whether they will need to do ~400 different implementations of the = parser (sadly like we have today with port 43 whois), >>=20 >> can the number cited ("~400") be associated with some published study >> on actual implementations? >>=20 >> -e >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > Francisco Obispo=20 > email: fobispo@isc.org > Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC > PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE >=20 > 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5tUJWMkfwESuSMa69ccvcAJY2G9gEuSRhLfLzg8+JdI+B/wXalsuvsjILRx6FZgDXr6R9qR7/2HP OHJLfrAjRH2kyshMQ9D3Z5P+VvMAdyzo8wKJwC0SC/LNZrwcvogQ0Jka6wtxEKXlKubKB01xPNcy wk7B5SPNsQbl0AIc3POd8vJsGlSUPDgTYSw+MxDeXw+Yys/Bo0bKegEvnEC6r8qzBTbAA/RIEukY i13imwMxeWXSSSoxTe+N8I3AagNCZz4yWlzRBJ3sKZ1pK6kAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_DE2D69EE-9182-4BFE-BBBA-D56D9FA0897C-- From dblumenthal@pir.org Thu Mar 22 08:36:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609CC21F84F9 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s7l6be4fnkM8 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com (mail.pir.org [72.44.190.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3BCF21F84B9 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com ([192.168.27.12]) by pir-mail-01 ([192.168.27.12]) with mapi; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:36:00 -0400 From: Don Blumenthal To: "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:36:00 -0400 Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: Ac0IMa3ksewmdIpLRduV9aTk19bQrQADnUJX Message-ID: <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1D4@pir-mail-01> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info>, <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:36:04 -0000 From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric B= runner-Williams [ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:42 AM To: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise as i've mentioned earlier, there is no (statistically significant within the data set) bad data in several registries (.aero, .coop, .museum, .cat), so factors other than legitimate user concerns are sources of bad data. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D True, unless one thinks that criminals and other fraudsters have legitimate= user concerns. While my background may produce=20 skewed numbers, the overwhelming majority of cases of false data that I hav= e seen involved registrants who wouldn't=20 want anybody to figure out who they were. Don -------------------------- DON M. BLUMENTHAL Senior Policy Advisor .ORG, The Public Interest Registry Direct: +1 734 418-8242 | Mobile: +1 202 431-0874 | Skype: donblumenthal | Find us on Facebook | .ORG Blog | Flickr | YouTube | Twitter | From andy@arin.net Thu Mar 22 08:55:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE84621F8528 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:55:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4YtCMnXnJftC for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4311C21F8673 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 08:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id DC227164F69; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CED2164F67; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:54:46 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:55:03 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Andrew Sullivan Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBteI5Hw6W2u7Ukeivtr702/NO5Z1fyqAgAC81wCAAFazgIAAKvSA Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:55:01 +0000 Message-ID: <264E02BB-0BF9-4964-99AE-71E5277EA6CC@arin.net> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.35.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:55:06 -0000 On Mar 22, 2012, at 9:21 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 04:11:00AM -0400, Andy Newton wrote: >> We make specific mention of using HTTP and HTTPS, which provides >> many authentication mechanisms upon which authorization schemes can >> be used to provide differentiated services. Therefore, I do not >> think there is a need to explicitly state support of differential >> service levels as that just comes with using HTTP. >=20 > I disagree with this, although it's not a hill I'll die on. =20 Same here=85 I'm not falling on my sword over this. > A significant motivator of this work for me is differential service > for different clients. By my reckoning, at least half of the current > ICANN-source complaints about "problems with WHOIS" (by which is meant > bad data) could be solved by reducing the incentives to populate name > registration data with falsehoods. The reason for those falsehoods > is, at least in part, the fact that WHOIS is an anonymous-access > protocol where everyone can get all the data. If we had > credential-based differentiation of responses, then registering a > domain name would not necessarily be a way to publish your street > address to 2 billion people. Something that was specified but that > didn't satisfy this need would not, IMO, be much of an advance. I'm not questioning the need for differentiated access, simply questioning = what it is the IETF is to do beyond providing multiple authentication mecha= nisms. -andy= From galvin+weirds@elistx.com Thu Mar 22 09:09:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE2221F8566 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:09:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n4uFkcy3BE8Q for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ee01.elistx.com (ee01.elistx.com [67.155.182.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56AC621F8565 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:09:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31965) with ESMTP id <0M1A000CPNJ1M5@elistx.com> for weirds@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:09:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:09:21 +0000 From: Jim Galvin In-reply-to: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> To: weirds@ietf.org Message-id: <2595975571C7B22FE3F761AE@James-Galvin-2.local> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:09:19 -0000 Thanks for doing this Andy. I support this revised charter. Jim -- On March 20, 2012 4:24:50 PM -0400 Andy Newton wrote regarding [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise -- > Sorry for the confusion. Here's a revision based on the feedback so > far. > > -andy > From michael@mwyoung.ca Thu Mar 22 09:19:46 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA8B21F85FB for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:19:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.27 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.27 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.329, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3NJfYCqkFPly for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D315A21F85C9 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so3886790iaz.31 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:19:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer :thread-index:content-language:x-gm-message-state; bh=RdTjenLGpKp9rCOk63cJFB1HpIOYnCtxvTLHAJq4mg8=; b=Vg1QgzWmaIPD4WYbadMye89hA2J4VNlto7+vgtr1dijvw2o2r0STUiCL7GtfvFyHgu E5tpYcDk+cvG84wPp3ArEXCjsaRnlNusNEkLen3X/rCewQDH7zjF83lzZ+6B7YjeTgct wF8vEzwTKm44Yyv+/dMQfJhI6rSnD5ZrmlXnPzZU2z6g9EHmF17kTCwpr54qnO9rbNOM zSvKuXGZgsfKC7u2nfHSObbeBCmpzYG3L5+fF2ghbXwCmbVI0iz+iWU5A+hl1k/BzCCS 92N7wcVxhTa2oTiKSnqIYZNjaZvY/5QZY1ywHJt4xcqpIgfkbs3ZDzs2s2yB/BjiLxxg dJfQ== Received: by 10.50.219.163 with SMTP id pp3mr2436635igc.1.1332433185495; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DUN20111 (CPEf81edff844ad-CM00080da07047.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.226.80.88]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gh8sm1641912igb.16.2012.03.22.09.19.41 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:19:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael Young" To: "'Francisco Obispo'" , "'John Levine'" References: <20120321084728.13258.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:19:37 -0400 Message-ID: <017501cd0847$95751170$c05f3450$@mwyoung.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQGBaZL/Rv3uz6wIx3DCEGI/ZueYMwJ1EnNglvoRDsA= Content-Language: en-ca X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmMXL5FlNm0x+8Ffg3Bzz5jes/AaOBRfMqHbNeIp8hZiOetX3DFaR2WjuAjXScj/junN0I1 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:19:46 -0000 More than a few extensions I'd say, but still better than the mess today. >It's not a matter on whether they will ignore it or not, it's about whether they will need to do ~400 different implementations of the parser (sadly like we have today with port 43 whois), or just one with a few extensions with the new proposal. >Francisco Obispo On another note, to John's point about repeating history - (which I do sympathize with). Winston Churchill said: "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." So maybe this will fail, maybe it will succeed, but right now we aren't doing anything and that's probably the least desirable of all options. Michael Young From dblumenthal@pir.org Thu Mar 22 09:22:54 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE0621F864F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:22:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.116 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.116 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.929, BAYES_20=-0.74, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gcEi5-Swr7og for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:22:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com (mail.pir.org [72.44.190.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C362D21F8647 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com ([192.168.27.12]) by pir-mail-01 ([192.168.27.12]) with mapi; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:22:51 -0400 From: Don Blumenthal To: "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:20:15 -0400 Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: Ac0G14W42NDwry0TQAO68CM02IL0ggBcCQ/v Message-ID: <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1D7@pir-mail-01> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net>, <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:22:54 -0000 Jim's post reminded me that I got lost in the discussion, a hazard of takin= g a couple of days away from the mailing list. I also support the draft. You've done an excellent job of balancing the fee= dback. -------------------------- DON M. BLUMENTHAL Senior Policy Advisor .ORG, The Public Interest Registry Direct: +1 734 418-8242 | Mobile: +1 202 431-0874 | Skype: donblumenthal | Find us on Facebook | .ORG Blog | Flickr | YouTube | Twitter | From michael@mwyoung.ca Thu Mar 22 09:24:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565EC21F8573 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:24:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.289 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.289 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.310, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L0f7KgFDFtkc for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iy0-f172.google.com (mail-iy0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B4D21F8566 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by iazz13 with SMTP id z13so3891966iaz.31 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-mailer:thread-index :content-language:x-gm-message-state; bh=0IYqeFWwVgn4f8fzRPJ81KpUIdgdOLjp3R2sdHc+V2o=; b=F8JRTOwe4uGGBj0IoUyRroFlXl/zAm1Zzl8kJTm1pY9U2YRViNHlySh095rNmymcTX U5cbIS3pFgrbmioiZZf8u6sMTnO7q1fBIHNOcryLxEiE/MGppJVugeBVdgfVVTcSEnQF N0ss2hKVijOSj7zQ+r4Dt9V/oHSpQ8ptbqGHLlsNeTBNeuyMRABy60aiz4RcPET0emNV 4NZ2APwEaL0YJ3fl21h4nblYomjWQpcDo0ioL3LaJC81OWoKBSUmH/e7c1iagP28AJPt gnhRBe0F6XPeRxHPy4wt+XCsq+faH9PbR2EPMQHu5fR8H4QhyA6RS/1qwahjGgDQGDR6 FGzA== Received: by 10.42.97.200 with SMTP id p8mr1099210icn.2.1332433438716; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DUN20111 (CPEf81edff844ad-CM00080da07047.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.226.80.88]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b11sm2373272igq.7.2012.03.22.09.23.55 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:23:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michael Young" To: "'Don Blumenthal'" , References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net>, <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1D7@pir-mail-01> In-Reply-To: <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1D7@pir-mail-01> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:23:49 -0400 Message-ID: <01a701cd0848$2c4c2e30$84e48a90$@mwyoung.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQDDXy6VL5w34qytBAArtEEv25WAYAJeko3BAP941wgCqMQU7AEDaKmcAhh4w0qYQLxZMA== Content-Language: en-ca X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlpIjvi2jK5m7+ZIVXJVgkpon2ulfngS4iJRw5bJN5TymVkpf1Tmtm5sKCHiSW12Kh9gyjn Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:24:06 -0000 +1 Michael Young -----Original Message----- From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Don Blumenthal Sent: March-22-12 12:20 PM To: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Jim's post reminded me that I got lost in the discussion, a hazard of taking a couple of days away from the mailing list. I also support the draft. You've done an excellent job of balancing the feedback. -------------------------- DON M. BLUMENTHAL Senior Policy Advisor .ORG, The Public Interest Registry Direct: +1 734 418-8242 | Mobile: +1 202 431-0874 | Skype: donblumenthal | Find us on Facebook | .ORG Blog | Flickr | YouTube | Twitter | _______________________________________________ weirds mailing list weirds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From vesely@tana.it Thu Mar 22 11:05:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E38C21E801F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:05:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.658 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T2LnDmc3bkcr for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (www.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2ED621F850D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:05:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332439516; bh=OtzituBSEcRnfNWbvurq54zc/0DNVl+9uAMi3jnMmqw=; l=487; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=ZwL/SXdQmo2cMqgylQxf2WuQUMktGkBzSZAxCl5/APFBDQIeHh1CrBc9TZJ2m460M HNpRRNtmOVZxbg6tjalTuC7htzUl6XDjoie4JW1zqYkoQeyTwguB9hX6uHKtqGy/nc AJIvERF2zQIMfSezQyiGXBI2x6RFNEBF6JN/6PDs= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:05:16 +0100 id 00000000005DC033.000000004F6B69DC.00005EAF Message-ID: <4F6B69DB.3020806@tana.it> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:05:15 +0100 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <3FCFB43C-3E95-499B-91DC-6BA50B9A38D1@nominet.org.uk> <4F6B1D7C.1040202@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: <4F6B1D7C.1040202@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:05:33 -0000 On 22/Mar/12 13:39, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: > whether labeled as "privacy" or "data protection", whether arising > from private contract or public law, some requirement(s) exist which > are (a) specific to personally identifying information, and (b) not > the default for connections over http. > > so i think a "note" that these "may" be provided by transport is not > quite sufficient. +1, the data model could mark some fields/objects as not universally harvestable. From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 22 11:10:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E371221F851D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:10:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SeZEDbJ8R2Mg for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384A321F850D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:10:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2MFH79L086306 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:17:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6B6B2B.8050402@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:10:51 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info>, <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1D4@pir-mail-01> In-Reply-To: <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1D4@pir-mail-01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:10:59 -0000 On 3/22/12 11:36 AM, Don Blumenthal wrote: > as i've mentioned earlier, there is no (statistically significant > within the data set) bad data in several registries (.aero, .coop, > .museum, .cat), so factors other than legitimate user concerns are > sources of bad data. > =================================================== > > True, unless one thinks that criminals and other fraudsters have legitimate user concerns. ... don, there is no conditional, no "unless" about the .aero, .coop, .museum, .cat data. there's simply no statistically significant bad data there. so the "correctness" meta-requirement is already met. > ... While my background may produce > skewed numbers, the overwhelming majority of cases of false data that I have seen involved registrants who wouldn't > want anybody to figure out who they were. you work for, and i assume you are referring to the data available to you, a registry with a registration policy which is price and other costs equivalent (registration policy) to verisign's, and has the same general correctness to non-correctness property of the sampled and verified records in the data set. the dollar cost alone to create an identifier is six or more times less in any of the price capped registries than in those i've mentioned above, in addition to the additional requirements of each on registrants. bad actors are not price indifferent. -e From dblumenthal@pir.org Thu Mar 22 11:27:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC0821F859B for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:27:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.814 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.814 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.232, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9xidcEOjIUDQ for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:27:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com (mail.pir.org [72.44.190.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECDA321F859F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com ([192.168.27.12]) by pir-mail-01 ([192.168.27.12]) with mapi; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:27:11 -0400 From: Don Blumenthal To: "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:27:09 -0400 Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: Ac0IVyPvbbKiTXD2RC+ZsowQEQIJTAAAOAsM Message-ID: <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1DA@pir-mail-01> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info>, <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1D4@pir-mail-01>, <4F6B6B2B.8050402@abenaki.wabanaki.net> In-Reply-To: <4F6B6B2B.8050402@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:27:12 -0000 From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric B= runner-Williams [ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:10 PM To: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise >> True, unless one thinks that criminals and other fraudsters have legitim= ate user concerns. ... > don, there is no conditional, no "unless" about the .aero, .coop, >.museum, .cat data. there's simply no statistically significant bad > data there. I was being facetious with that statement. In any event, I think that we're= making each other's points. Your paragraph ended with "so factors other than legitimate user concerns a= re sources of bad data."=20 A significant amount of bad registrations come from individuals or entities= involved in illegal conduct.=20 They don't use the TLDs that you mentioned. >you work for, and i assume you are referring to the data available to ?you, a registry with a registration policy which is price and other Don't assume. I have been with PIR for less than two years. I worked on onl= ine and Internet investigations for the FTC for over 12. Don From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu Mar 22 11:46:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4F721F854B for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.491 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.491 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1t5bOTZnzRSD for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A1221F853E for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C71D1ECB41D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:46:03 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:46:04 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120322184603.GB52866@mail.yitter.info> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:46:05 -0000 On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 09:42:40AM -0400, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: > as i've mentioned earlier, there is no (statistically significant > within the data set) bad data in several registries (.aero, .coop, > .museum, .cat), so factors other than legitimate user concerns are > sources of bad data. That simply doesn't follow. The registries you mention are not gTLDs, and therefore the user population is different. Find me a gTLD that hasn't any bad data, and I'll buy this argument. That is not to say that all the bad data is from legitimate user concerns. But we can't know that until a completely unreasonable requirement about global publication to anonymous queriers is lifted in favour of something at least as inconvenient as looking things up in the land registry office. That's public data, too, but scammers in jurisictions without any effective policing are not able to harvest my street address from the comfort of their basement just because I have a mortgage on my house. Anyway, that's all a policy, not a protocol question. My main point is that I want protocol tools to _allow_ policy here, and we don't have that now. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu Mar 22 11:47:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0545021E8012 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:47:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.492 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.492 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.107, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QVsUcVCjYLVI for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C1521E800C for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D58471ECB41D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:47:51 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:47:52 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120322184752.GC52866@mail.yitter.info> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> <264E02BB-0BF9-4964-99AE-71E5277EA6CC@arin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <264E02BB-0BF9-4964-99AE-71E5277EA6CC@arin.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:47:53 -0000 On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 03:55:01PM +0000, Andy Newton wrote: > > I'm not questioning the need for differentiated access, simply questioning what it is the IETF is to do beyond providing multiple authentication mechanisms. > Nothing. I was just saying that this requirement ought to be in the charter. Since we plan to use http (and presumably also https), the requirement is satisfied from the beginning. This has the additional benefit of commiting to a mileston we have met by design :) A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From vesely@tana.it Thu Mar 22 12:01:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2BF21E803D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:01:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.658 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CijqoJLMgcKg for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (wmail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3A6521E800F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:01:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332442903; bh=r1E5RqdQ9+Bewt88vGMn8MGU1b/D/GG1MticqLZPF/M=; l=2369; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=QfA2gIInmWkPRc2nyj2GEdTROlBWIY+hLtRpMtoA8QxyVvXkwDRIamR/cZohlvPDM eUe/gIX5eq1/6jEgqPvfjSyP2hTLMk+zWJu0xYBRhqArmjqdjItmlz7k86m24Og32h H0RnJsRpyK01SXYk8yHYZsf57W73d657Y4Caxzlo= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:01:43 +0100 id 00000000005DC03F.000000004F6B7717.00006AFD Message-ID: <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:01:42 +0100 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:01:48 -0000 On 21/Mar/12 21:21, Andy Newton wrote: > >>> but with the explicit additional goals of producing a simple, >>> easy-to-implement protocol, supporting internationalized >>> registration data and, specifically for name registries, a data >>> model capturing the needs of internationalized domain names. >> >> Overall, the text makes it clear that the framework and the mandatory >> format are unique. For data models, only that phrase is given. > > I do not understand the clarification being requested here. Can you > elaborate? That quoted snippet is the only reference to the data model in the revised charter, besides mentioning that WHOIS doesn't have one. It seems to me that not only names and numbers have different data models --which is quite obvious-- but also that the corresponding communities have their minds on different /kinds/ of data models. The choice of XML, and the various namespaces present in the RWS-DNRD draft seem to consider extensibility as a registry-specific choice of the representation of domain, contact, host, and registrar objects. The cross product of local requirements and time evolution yields a complicated framework, where apps have to be targeted at specific classes of registries. Will we end up with just numbers and names, or rather numbers, names-com, names-thick, ..., names-etc? Time evolution is implied. If a new field, contact-lang, say, were introduced anew, I'd expect it gets into some IANA table along with its accompanying RFC, so that programmers can learn about fields and upgrade their software accordingly. Will the WG plan for such kind of maintenance? >> Can the charter mention what kind of extensibility we aim for? I know >> that this has to be discussed further, but unifying frameworks could >> support a variety of model variations, which is different than >> designing for simple clients that need to access whichever server >> transparently. Perhaps, the charter could speak about working out >> what are the elements that are actually part of all known object >> templates --capturing such work in its own milestone remains a >> valuable task, IMHO. > > Just thinking here, but maybe that could go in the requirements document. Yes, but if we pin this particular numbers-vs-names difference, it might help making yet another small step forward. From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 22 12:01:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DFD221E800F for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:01:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9MYvJNn-7QMP for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A9AF21E803D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2MG7wCQ086583 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:07:59 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6B7717.40004@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:01:43 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info>, <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1D4@pir-mail-01>, <4F6B6B2B.8050402@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1DA@pir-mail-01> In-Reply-To: <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1DA@pir-mail-01> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:01:52 -0000 On 3/22/12 2:27 PM, Don Blumenthal wrote: > ... > A significant amount of bad registrations come from individuals or entities involved in illegal conduct. > They don't use the TLDs that you mentioned. i've observed else where (sundry whois, fastflux, other policy/spec working groups, that dollar cost (actual, not presented, so with credit card fraud factored in), and time cost, appears to be sufficient to meaningfully correlate rational economic actors and their choice of namespaces for identifiers. the significant exception to this was the apparent use of ~100 namespaces for rendezvous points for the .C variant of conficker. in fact, far fewer namespaces were actually exercised by the .C authors, as many had sufficient registration complexity to present a barrier to its automated registration system. subsequent authors of systems for which rendezvous points will be necessary may elect to create inventories from existing registrations. >> >you work for, and i assume you are referring to the data available to > ?you, a registry with a registration policy which is price and other > > Don't assume. I have been with PIR for less than two years. I worked on online and Internet > investigations for the FTC for over 12. thanks for the clarification as to the data which has been available to you. 12 years ago i was trying to fix or kill the thing on :43* -e * http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/provreg/current/msg02302.html From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu Mar 22 12:15:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9F621F8533 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:15:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.492 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.492 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.107, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CCtm6z1w8fTX for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C0721F8505 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BB73D1ECB41D for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:15:11 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:15:12 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120322191511.GF52866@mail.yitter.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: [weirds] Moving forward X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:15:13 -0000 Dear colleagues, Given the rapid convergence I at least am seeing around Andy's most recent proposal for a charter, it would appear that we are close to agreement among people on this list. I'd like to suggest the following: 1. If you have issues with Andy's text, please send specific alterations you'd like to see, unless you have a difference in principle. It would be nice to converge on a single text for consideration in Paris. Note that I'm not the chair here, I have no power of any kind, and I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. This is merely a suggestion, and people are free to ignore my suggestion, tell me to jump in the lake (well, river, I guess, in this case), or whatever. 2. Assuming we are close on (1), we won't have much to discuss in Paris. I'd therefore like to suggest that, if there are outstanding issues in the drafts _that people think need face to face time_, we identify those and add them provisionally to an agenda. Again, I'm not the boss of you, and I'm even less the boss of you than I would be if I were a WG chair (which is pretty not-boss anyway, I have to say). This is merely a suggestion for how we might best use our time to make progress, which is I believe what everyone wants. Because we have a BoF scheduled, even if we all agree on this list we'll need to face any disagreements with any text satisfying (1) in Paris. Maybe there won't be any. I think it would be great if we could convert the Paris time we have reserved from wrangling about administration to wrangling about protocols! Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From dblumenthal@pir.org Thu Mar 22 12:15:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2279721F8533 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:15:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.86 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.86 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.186, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f2evqOffOiTz for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com (mail.pir.org [72.44.190.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 302F121F8505 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:15:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com ([192.168.27.12]) by pir-mail-01 ([192.168.27.12]) with mapi; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:15:55 -0400 From: Don Blumenthal To: "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:11:56 -0400 Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: Ac0IXAu9R682Zs+sTNOYccr7WCqjKgAA5oRc Message-ID: <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B75276065782B1DF@pir-mail-01> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net>, <20120322184603.GB52866@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120322184603.GB52866@mail.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:15:57 -0000 From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andrew= Sullivan [ajs@anvilwalrusden.com] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:46 PM To: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise >That simply doesn't follow. The registries you mention are not gTLDs, >and therefore the user population is different. Find me a gTLD that >hasn't any bad data, and I'll buy this argument. A minor point but one that is significant for purposes of how the name spac= e is divided. The top level domains that Erik mentioned are gTLDs, albeit sponsored ones = rather than open. The sponsored category is one reason that the bad guys don't/can't us= e them. Don= From johnl@iecc.com Thu Mar 22 12:29:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A58A21F84CE for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:29:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.636 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.636 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.563, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D4Lq+0XmZyJ5 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:29:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6415D21F84C8 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 48173 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2012 19:29:00 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 22 Mar 2012 19:29:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4f6b7d7b.xn--9vv.k1203; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=vZecxwOIw1MYlYXvvTQZgViePN+YzvXBulCauASWNrs=; b=edt+XJQdeaj1edC9Nl1fiAX1vuckeOyeIq/MEC9n9Vb2J1aLCVJudg5gewYb6hh7RUNnLFyJw0T4Wz8ccgU2nNtvdgAm7LySi/a2Z3C9xxhLVNQYDRgnUET2pqbmQZHjIjEdqeVRgSe84fiEd317U8MwKTTLLQ+PXWcK/zaAHeg= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 22 Mar 2012 19:28:37 -0000 Message-ID: <20120322192837.21210.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <0001B972-38B5-4400-AF59-F8FB46DE267E@icann.org> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:02 -0000 >IMHO we should be defining _nothing_ in the WEIRDS specifications about: > >- authentication >- access control >- rate limiting > >other than to note that all these MAY be provided at the HTTP layer. I agree that we probably don't want to say much about them, I'd rather not rule them out in the charter. It would be interesting just to ask the RIRs whether they were willing to agree that, say, HTTPS authentication with users and passwords was adequate, so for my improved WHOIS scraper I don't have to do a combination of HTTP passwords, client SSL certficates, credentials entered into HTML forms, and six other authentication approaches that haven't occurred to me yet. R's, John From andy@arin.net Thu Mar 22 12:36:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1C221E8020 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:36:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tyELAVXj2erT for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E2921E8018 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 6931B164F72; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D01164F39; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:35:21 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:36:01 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Alessandro Vesely Thread-Topic: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter Thread-Index: AQHNCF5DySWx/N6vm0i1YAj8SHnOr5Z2+FYA Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:35:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> In-Reply-To: <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.35.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:36:03 -0000 On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:01 PM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > The cross product of local requirements and time evolution yields a > complicated framework, where apps have to be targeted at specific > classes of registries. Will we end up with just numbers and names, or > rather numbers, names-com, names-thick, ..., names-etc? I think you are saying the data model should be extensible, which is a goal= inherited from 3707. As to an IANA registry of data model extensions, I think encouraging Inform= ational RFCs is simply good enough. -andy= From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 22 12:42:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417F521F85C6 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:42:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1FVWPPEb1YOD for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E14621F85B1 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2MGn3SY086814 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:49:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6B80B7.8080102@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:42:47 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <20120322184603.GB52866@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120322184603.GB52866@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:42:55 -0000 On 3/22/12 2:46 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 09:42:40AM -0400, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: >> > as i've mentioned earlier, there is no (statistically significant >> > within the data set) bad data in several registries (.aero, .coop, >> > .museum, .cat), so factors other than legitimate user concerns are >> > sources of bad data. > That simply doesn't follow. The registries you mention are not gTLDs, > and therefore the user population is different. Find me a gTLD that > hasn't any bad data, and I'll buy this argument. you are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike ... which of the pre-icann registries are generic, and which are not? which of the 2000 and 2004 round of icann registrars are which? some distinguish between "g" and "cc" only, others between "g", "s" and "cc". having written the original meta proposal that lead to the creation of the "s" form, and written winning proposals for both price capped "g" and nexus encumbered "cc", and having some operational responsibilities in several, i personally think that the best way to map policy to registry is to look to the contracts. however, the nuance i hope you'll consider is what if, instead of a requirement that a .museum registrant be an icom member (or colorably), or that a .coop registrant be a cooperative (or colorably), or ... the only registration requirement could be a price 10x that of the cnobi registries -- which is about where the price points actually are today and have been since these registries began operations. i hope you'll agree that rational economic actors are not price indifferent, and given the choice of a use-and-loose registration in .com for $6 and a use-and-loose registration in .cat for $60, absent any specific utility in a .cat registration, the rational economic actors will select .com over .cat. so the registration policy, in the generalist of "s" vs "g" forms, is not controlling. to check this, compare the "g" vs "cc" forms, where one can look at the price as a variable, and the nexus as a variable. cc's with $6 price points and no nexus are ... incorrectness equivalent to the cnobi registries. the cc's with a lower price and a higher non-price barrier (actual paper or a nexus requirement) are incorrectness equivalent to the aero/coop/museum/cat registries. > That is not to say that all the bad data is from legitimate user > concerns. But we can't know that until ... actually the correlation of cost (dollar and non-dollar registration overhead, including time necessary per transaction, paper and other forms of non-dollar time/complexity cost) is something we know now. we may actually know more about the correlations of bad data and the value bad data provides its authors, and the registration supply chain actors. so without knowing if dick and jane lie about their phone number and email address when registering ourlittlehomeonthe.net (which in fact we already do know from registrant studies and from email harvest time into spam list studies), we do know there are actors which use registration systems to acquire assets, and the universe of actors who have a contractual, or legal basis to interpose on the resulting registrations is vastly smaller than "global ... anonymous queriers". i don't think any waiting period is necessary to buy this bit o security. > ... a completely unreasonable > requirement about global publication to anonymous queriers is lifted > in favour of something at least as inconvenient as looking things up > in the land registry office. That's public data, too, but scammers in > jurisictions without any effective policing are not able to harvest my > street address from the comfort of their basement just because I have > a mortgage on my house. i don't think we can do much to solve the no law west of the pecos problem. > Anyway, that's all a policy, not a protocol question. My main point mechanism allows policy. policy without mechanism is ... igf. > is that I want protocol tools to _allow_ policy here, and we don't > have that now. here we are agreed, as we have been for years. -e From andy@arin.net Thu Mar 22 12:49:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC6DB21F85C6 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:49:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pMW7PkB0qHba for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3BB621F85AA for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 8C273213689; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32C8B213637; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:49:05 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.88]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:49:22 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: John Levine Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNBteI5Hw6W2u7Ukeivtr702/NO5Z1fyqAgAC81wCAACNHAIAAGQkAgACBAoCAAAXOgA== Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:49:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20120322192837.21210.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120322192837.21210.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.35.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <8BF8E56F5F56B54F911064143B65343E@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:49:25 -0000 On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:28 PM, John Levine wrote: > I agree that we probably don't want to say much about them, I'd rather > not rule them out in the charter. So I'll ask again=85 what specific work is it that you seek from the IETF i= n this regard beyond the protocol supporting multiple authentication mechan= isms? We can mention that we are using HTTP to get those mechanisms in the = charter, but that seems redundant. Should we also say we wish HTTP to use T= CP? > It would be interesting just to ask the RIRs whether they were willing > to agree that, say, HTTPS authentication with users and passwords was > adequate, so for my improved WHOIS scraper I don't have to do a > combination of HTTP passwords, client SSL certficates, credentials > entered into HTML forms, and six other authentication approaches that > haven't occurred to me yet. But that starts with a policy question to each RIR. The answer cannot be fo= und in the IETF. That's why I'm confused. Is this a request to open up the = scope of possible work? If so, can more specifics be provided? I'm not gonna stand in the way of having the language put in the charter my= any means. It just seems either redundant or an indicator that the scope n= eeds to be more clearly defined. -andy= From sm@resistor.net Thu Mar 22 13:37:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D15921F84DD for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:37:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.629 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.629 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DCIn4XhRv0qs for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA7921F84EE for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2MKbYla023077 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:37:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1332448658; i=@resistor.net; bh=L7G3wY+JJb22GRqIP1BTOlaJrNCnkE9yCSFqpSmvyTw=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=BjhsvCw/8C8liJp4txeSmMQOB38fp/BGIECjublLmsWQuB19O8FY+jT6b4GXUqnzx Tx18dw9QxGhHSjRwwG6va1126/Un+ueIhImBc3w5/ATQb473lkj2qPABGPe7lF0gSh tPA3E0Uc+FDsMphpbZcRycYG3pymq/DsYIDuY87c= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1332448658; i=@resistor.net; bh=L7G3wY+JJb22GRqIP1BTOlaJrNCnkE9yCSFqpSmvyTw=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=1ir4L9H0SOy6vqyiB4YKEMtb+A7SPwAu+DipYELwWs3mSgrtTh0U8WdJH/oOm6EuD XlV99GdcVZzu+cgsEr11B9G/cY20pML8Bt6oa7bHesOSL8QgEowmQ9iv5KZbD9amT9 rBeZTPRROPncFMQjn5Ew4bjdPrjTenGu3U7GDDco= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120322132303.0a0ac670@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:36:18 -0700 To: weirds@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: <4F6B80B7.8080102@abenaki.wabanaki.net> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <20120322184603.GB52866@mail.yitter.info> <4F6B80B7.8080102@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:37:43 -0000 At 12:42 22-03-2012, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: >which of the pre-icann registries are generic, and which are not? >which of the 2000 and 2004 round of icann registrars are which? Does this even matter? >mechanism allows policy. policy without mechanism is ... igf. It's up to each special interest group to explain what mechanisms it would like to have to fulfill its policy needs. If the goal is to build some mechanism in the hope that it might solve some hypothetical policy issue, it can end up generating useless IETF work. Regards, -sm From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 22 14:12:20 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EB8721F84DA for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:12:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sjnBfM272-Ng for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C508021F84D8 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2MIIR8V087208 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:18:27 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6B95AC.1050109@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:12:12 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A402B.3000202@vande-walle.eu> <20120322132118.GA49743@mail.yitter.info> <4F6B2C50.3030909@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <20120322184603.GB52866@mail.yitter.info> <4F6B80B7.8080102@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20120322132303.0a0ac670@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120322132303.0a0ac670@resistor.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:12:20 -0000 On 3/22/12 4:36 PM, SM wrote: > At 12:42 22-03-2012, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: >> which of the pre-icann registries are generic, and which are not? >> which of the 2000 and 2004 round of icann registrars are which? > > Does this even matter? see andrew's note, and also don's comment. >> mechanism allows policy. policy without mechanism is ... igf. > > It's up to each special interest group to explain what mechanisms it > would like to have to fulfill its policy needs. If the goal is to > build some mechanism in the hope that it might solve some hypothetical > policy issue, it can end up generating useless IETF work. what a novel observation! you're probably the first person to think of this. -e From msk@cloudmark.com Thu Mar 22 14:44:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57CCE21F84C5 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:44:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rVZLWo4Kq9Qo for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht1-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.25]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57E221F84C2 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:44:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by EXCH-HTCAS901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2966:6846:8d89:4681%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:44:34 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Moving forward Thread-Index: AQHNCGAddsomTA2gLUuKxYgdirY6iZZ22AXA Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:44:33 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097C8A@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <20120322191511.GF52866@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120322191511.GF52866@mail.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Moving forward X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:44:35 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Andrew Sullivan > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 12:15 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: [weirds] Moving forward >=20 > Dear colleagues, >=20 > Given the rapid convergence I at least am seeing around Andy's most > recent proposal for a charter, it would appear that we are close to > agreement among people on this list. I'd like to suggest the > following: >=20 > 1. If you have issues with Andy's text, please send specific > alterations you'd like to see, unless you have a difference in > principle. It would be nice to converge on a single text for > consideration in Paris. Note that I'm not the chair here, I have > no power of any kind, and I'm not trying to tell anyone what to > do. This is merely a suggestion, and people are free to ignore my > suggestion, tell me to jump in the lake (well, river, I guess, in > this case), or whatever. The only change I wanted (and I can't remember if I said so now or not) is = to re-add the requirements document back into the list of initial documents= to be considered. It's not critical, because the WG could adopt it anyway= , but I think it helps to create a more complete picture for the IESG, and = it could address this to-http-or-not question up front. =09 > 2. Assuming we are close on (1), we won't have much to discuss in > Paris. I'd therefore like to suggest that, if there are > outstanding issues in the drafts _that people think need face to > face time_, we identify those and add them provisionally to an > agenda. Again, I'm not the boss of you, and I'm even less the > boss of you than I would be if I were a WG chair (which is pretty > not-boss anyway, I have to say). This is merely a suggestion for > how we might best use our time to make progress, which is I > believe what everyone wants. I think we should take a few minutes at the Paris BoF to summarize what's d= ifferent between the charter that was considered in Taipei and Andy's text,= for the people that will be in the room again but aren't following this li= st. If no serious friction results, then we could switch to talking about = the real work rather than the meta-work. We might want to have a list of real work topics to cover in the time we ha= ve just in case we're lucky and the BoF fails to go south. :-) -MSK From johnl@iecc.com Thu Mar 22 14:48:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666F221F8537 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:48:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.482 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.482 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.118, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Cb1fwhGP+a3 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 947C321F84D5 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 72646 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2012 21:48:11 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=11bc5.4f6b9e1b.k1203; bh=tL9wCjCae/LljreQ0RQzM1ZeHEGgD33W4fy+eol98ug=; b=gZaBnH1b6WL8JMbNl+U7vwvLUkcpbCLf9U3aENuJ3Su26YDDDImzBFlTKwqQFkRjNIuG6b5J7VAr4DWKylcZ8q/964zrn7mJR7IEX/vWumL0R2gyxuTq3cykRbEtFlia2j8CA+FL+Wa6NrKFMiqarGoiDcHMPd08CiXAbVFgC40= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 22 Mar 2012 21:47:49 -0000 Date: 22 Mar 2012 22:48:10 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Andy Newton" In-Reply-To: References: <20120322192837.21210.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="3825401791-1698351285-1332452891=:52088" Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:48:13 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3825401791-1698351285-1332452891=:52088 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE >> I agree that we probably don't want to say much about them, I'd rather >> not rule them out in the charter. > > So I'll ask again=E2=80=A6 what specific work is it that you seek from th= e IETF=20 > in this regard beyond the protocol supporting multiple authentication=20 > mechanisms? I'd prefer if it supported one (1) authentication mechanism. The open=20 question is whether that's sufficient. > But that starts with a policy question to each RIR. The answer cannot be= =20 > found in the IETF. That's why I'm confused. Is this a request to open up= =20 > the scope of possible work? If so, can more specifics be provided? I specifically propose that the only authentication mechanism be HTTP=20 basic authentication as described in RFC 2617, transported over HTTPS.=20 If people have concrete reasons why that's inadequate, we can switch to=20 any of the other usual suspects, but I don't want to say that you have to= =20 negotiate an authentication scheme separately with every provider unless=20 there's an actual reason that's necessary. Note that a common authentication scheme does not mean common credentials,= =20 nor does it mean common semantics of credentials. Those would be nice,=20 but they're probably too much to ask. If we have a common authentication= =20 scheme, my client can keep all the credentials in a table, and add a new=20 one by adding a line to a config file. If not, I have to patch the code=20 every time I run into an authentication scheme slightly unlike the ones I= =20 already handle. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummi= es", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly --3825401791-1698351285-1332452891=:52088-- From msk@cloudmark.com Thu Mar 22 15:01:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F306C21F84F6 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:01:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wbfht+Dq2skF for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27EAE21F84B8 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::e82a:4f80:7f44:eaf7%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:01:38 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Revised agenda Thread-Index: Ac0Id1qoE5LmjJu+QICaQmgnjKJRDw== Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:01:38 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097CEF@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.20.2.121] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097CEFexchmbx901corpclo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Revised agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:01:40 -0000 --_004_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097CEFexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097CEFexchmbx901corpclo_" --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097CEFexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In line with Andrew's post, I'm encouraged by this flurry of convergence of= opinion, at least on what the charter should say. Accordingly, I've adjusted the agenda slightly. Please let us know if ther= e are any changes you'd like to see, otherwise I'll post this update tomorr= ow or so. -MSK --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097CEFexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In line with Andrew’s post, I’m encourag= ed by this flurry of convergence of opinion, at least on what the charter s= hould say.

 

Accordingly, I’ve adjusted the agenda slightly= .  Please let us know if there are any changes you’d like to see= , otherwise I’ll post this update tomorrow or so.

 

-MSK

--_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097CEFexchmbx901corpclo_-- --_004_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097CEFexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/plain; name="agenda-83-weirds.txt" Content-Description: agenda-83-weirds.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="agenda-83-weirds.txt"; size=879; creation-date="Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:01:21 GMT"; modification-date="Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:59:54 GMT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V0VJUkRTIEJvRiBzZXNzaW9uCklFVEYgODMKUGFyaXMsIEZyYW5jZQoyMDEyLTAzLTI3IDE1OjIw LTE3OjAwIFBhcmlzIHRpbWUKClRoZXJlIGlzIGV4YWN0bHkgb25lIGl0ZW0gb24gdGhlIGFnZW5k YTogY29tZSB0byBhZ3JlZW1lbnQgYWJvdXQgYQpwb3NzaWJsZSBjaGFydGVyLgoKVGhlIGFsdGVy bmF0aXZlcyBzbyBmYXI6CgoqIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbC1hcmNoaXZlL3dlYi93 ZWlyZHMvY3VycmVudC9tc2cwMDQ3Ni5odG1sCiogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsLWFy Y2hpdmUvd2ViL3dlaXJkcy9jdXJyZW50L21zZzAwNzI1Lmh0bWwKICAodGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgZmF2 b3VyaXRlKQoKQ2hhcnRlci1zcGVjaWZpYyBpc3N1ZXMgd2UgbWF5IChvciBtYXkgbm90KSBuZWVk IHRvIGNvdmVyOgoKICAgICogV2hldGhlciBETlMgbmFtZXMgYXJlIGluY2x1ZGVkIGluIHRoZSBj aGFydGVyIGFzIHBvc3NpYmx5IG9uLXRvcGljCiAgICAqIFdoZXRoZXIgRE5TIG5hbWVzIGhhdmUg bWlsZXN0b25lcyBmb3IgdGhlbSAoYXJlIHRoZXkgaW4tc2NvcGUpCiAgICAqIFRoZSBsZXZlbCBv ZiBjb21wbGljYXRpb24gdG8gYmUgdG9sZXJhdGVkCiAgICAqIFRoZSBjb21wcmVoZW5zaXZlbmVz cyBvZiB0aGUgcmVzdWx0aW5nIHByb3RvY29sCiAgICAqIFRoZSBkZWdyZWUgdG8gd2hpY2ggdGhl IHJlc3VsdGluZyBwcm90b2NvbCBpcyBleHRlbnNpYmxlCgpUZWNobmljYWwgdG9waWNzIHdlIGNh biBkaXNjdXNzIG9uY2Ugd2UgYWdyZWUgb24gYSBjaGFydGVyOgoKICAgICogQXV0aGVudGljYXRp b24gbWV0aG9kKHMpIHRoZSBwcm90b2NvbCBzaG91bGQgc3BlY2lmeQogICAgKiBXaGV0aGVyIHRv IHVzZSBYTUwsIEpTT04sIG9yIGJvdGgK --_004_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097CEFexchmbx901corpclo_-- From sm@resistor.net Thu Mar 22 15:25:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97D0721E801B for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:25:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.628 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.628 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WoT-sKI+3ij3 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84C921E8013 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2MMPbNG022883 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:25:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1332455141; i=@resistor.net; bh=4eNCnCPJPAbFsJ3PyZzBIad/lsl4WrrGA0Vj+xzikz4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=niDN38SKNpYxiDB+MxBJUQhxyss5yfcVsflO20cLNr4czOyGADKz8SKlWH0TD9428 TqwR/HRtd+KzxyuF4xiuDmJsM9atiDyVW8Q9TnkVlq8s+mAowW5vV5Pe7+ri75pAvL k5fsWmxUXUr8xRoqUjWFfH13D6DsFsMDAdzkmm6M= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1332455141; i=@resistor.net; bh=4eNCnCPJPAbFsJ3PyZzBIad/lsl4WrrGA0Vj+xzikz4=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=1KFJbbDMTfLbN6zE+ZqILoLT3jlmNmroeZq7DwfdDTMOF6iiPfEw+PJKcA8yAz7mg VTyHYSPaRHVjm+xAvytkdOj0bgUC4HckGkg8c4HeffZtArp3wsbkASt6K2r3ZRP0mX 6RQfym3n49SFO9KvLsKZQ0gr8VaqmL5tLmywDixY= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120322150729.0acb15f0@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:18:14 -0700 To: weirds@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097C8A@exch-mbx901.corp.cl oudmark.com> References: <20120322191511.GF52866@mail.yitter.info> <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E003928097C8A@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [weirds] Moving forward X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:25:42 -0000 Hi Murray, At 14:44 22-03-2012, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >The only change I wanted (and I can't remember if I said so now or >not) is to re-add the requirements document back into the list of >initial documents to be considered. It's not critical, because the >WG could adopt it anyway, but I think it helps to create a more >complete picture for the IESG, and it could address this >to-http-or-not question up front. Andy mentioned that during the discussion about the 2012-03-20aln.2 version of the draft charter. Suggested text for first sentence of 7th paragraph: The Working Group shall determine the general requirements of such a service, using draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements as an input document, and standardize a single data framework. Regards, -sm From vesely@tana.it Fri Mar 23 03:20:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9231A21F8557 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 03:20:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.658 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kuhY204++Ue0 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 03:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (wmail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7D2721F8555 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 03:20:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332498009; bh=PppK0g3RLi+2u705BdELl4qH/TrvuMYA6IfIAj8TTjI=; l=532; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=K/uLhIJxVFdy8z88PkvWy2J+Rd9OqQQd5g2XUeT98kl4ytpXa7AX5UMWZeNlzysSR 5EwpByL4xD8LIgHv1seZJA864wcuxWsnrGFuRep2KtNP/D8qMQezETeAYaTRHmbzAe nmY55QTiANO/+VTUZoWmv+ydOpKvhDU7ZY1fBz7k= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:20:09 +0100 id 00000000005DC035.000000004F6C4E59.00003F98 Message-ID: <4F6C4E59.3050908@tana.it> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:20:09 +0100 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:20:15 -0000 On 22/Mar/12 20:35, Andy Newton wrote: > > On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:01 PM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > >> The cross product of local requirements and time evolution yields a >> complicated framework, where apps have to be targeted at specific >> classes of registries. Will we end up with just numbers and names, or >> rather numbers, names-com, names-thick, ..., names-etc? > > I think you are saying the data model should be extensible, which > is a goal inherited from 3707. Does CRISP allow local extensions like EPP? From andy@arin.net Fri Mar 23 05:13:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B8FB21F850B for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 05:13:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G9Z7R0MERCUf for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 05:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D59821F8505 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 05:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 06714213675; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D0E2135EF; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:13:21 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.91]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:13:40 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "John R. Levine" Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: AQHNCHWL/zkPb4gxqEGb3DLMYPM5NJZ4DuqA Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:13:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20120322192837.21210.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.35.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <36394765638DD443958C8C713BF0C3BE@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:13:43 -0000 On Mar 22, 2012, at 5:48 PM, John R. Levine wrote: > I specifically propose that the only authentication mechanism be HTTP bas= ic authentication as described in RFC 2617, transported over HTTPS. If peop= le have concrete reasons why that's inadequate, we can switch to any of the= other usual suspects, but I don't want to say that you have to negotiate a= n authentication scheme separately with every provider unless there's an ac= tual reason that's necessary. And now you have me concerned. In the ARIN region, we have APIKeys used for= our restful registration service, template submissions, and access to bulk= whois. Extending it to restful whois would be a natural for us. I think th= e RIPE NCC already has an active authentication scheme on their restful who= is service. Are you saying we can no longer use those schemes? If the US gov requires us to accept client certs signed by the USDOJ, does = that mean we cannot also accept client certs issued by the EU? Does it mean= we cannot participate in a ticket distribution scheme using HTTP cookies i= nitiated by ICANN? Authentication schemes are not mutually exclusive. We do not need to mandat= e only one. And in the absence of policy driving one, the selection of the = mechanism to use is premature. -andy From andy@arin.net Fri Mar 23 05:31:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B3821F84DF for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 05:31:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TQUJ+MJWevfO for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 05:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5599B21F84DD for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 05:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 0C9AA21368E; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:31:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3A1213675; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:30:21 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.91]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:31:04 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Alessandro Vesely Thread-Topic: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter Thread-Index: AQHNCF5DySWx/N6vm0i1YAj8SHnOr5Z2+FYAgAD3B4CAACSYgA== Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:31:03 +0000 Message-ID: <59BD2FDC-EC23-4677-BC75-D94ABE70B395@arin.net> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> <4F6C4E59.3050908@tana.it> In-Reply-To: <4F6C4E59.3050908@tana.it> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.35.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3B854D3907F08E4F8663041B5B9ED078@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 12:31:12 -0000 On Mar 23, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > On 22/Mar/12 20:35, Andy Newton wrote: >>=20 >> On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:01 PM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: >>=20 >>> The cross product of local requirements and time evolution yields a >>> complicated framework, where apps have to be targeted at specific >>> classes of registries. Will we end up with just numbers and names, or >>> rather numbers, names-com, names-thick, ..., names-etc? >>=20 >> I think you are saying the data model should be extensible, which >> is a goal inherited from 3707. >=20 > Does CRISP allow local extensions like EPP? Even more so. :) But if you want it in the charter, my suggestion for para 7 last sentence i= s to change this: The overall effort will be broadly aligned with=20 a subset of the Cross Registry Internet Service Protocol (CRISP)=20 Requirements (RFC 3707), but with the explicit additional goals of=20 producing a simple, easy-to-implement protocol, supporting=20 internationalized registration data and, specifically for name registries, a data model capturing the needs of internationalized domain names. to this The overall effort will be broadly aligned with=20 a subset of the Cross Registry Internet Service Protocol (CRISP)=20 Requirements (RFC 3707), but with the explicit additional goals of=20 producing a simple, easy-to-implement protocol, supporting=20 internationalized registration data, an extensible data model capable of supporting local extensions without substitution of core data classes, and, specifically for name registries, a data model capturing= =20 the needs of internationalized domain names. Looking at the requirements document, I was trying to find a place to put t= his in there but it occurred to me the requirements document talks about wh= at clients and server should do but not about the properties and/or operati= onal principles of the protocol itself. -andy From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Fri Mar 23 06:35:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F99D21F858E for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 06:35:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.553 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.553 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HmhXruv-0Svn for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 06:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41F821F8545 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 06:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2NAfgmt093503 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 06:41:43 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6C7C29.9070706@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 09:35:37 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120322192837.21210.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 13:35:56 -0000 On 3/23/12 8:13 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > If the US gov requires us to accept client certs signed by the USDOJ, does that mean we cannot also accept client certs issued by the EU? Does it mean we cannot participate in a ticket distribution scheme using HTTP cookies initiated by ICANN? > > Authentication schemes are not mutually exclusive. We do not need to mandate only one. And in the absence of policy driving one, the selection of the mechanism to use is premature. this isn't the only implied uniqueness of mechanism that bothers me. we've already had more fun than most pay grades allow when gost wasn't allowed for dnssec, and this isn't something to repeat just for fun. -e From vesely@tana.it Fri Mar 23 07:07:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC53321F8501 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:07:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.658 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PjhyK3Odtqw4 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (wmail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6880121F84D0 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:07:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332511663; bh=G4ApjFAgRWHePCYA1xhP5MNH9cvG1dkgiy0wszHvHLc=; l=1433; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=M8wddAbUjU/JgZH1yAkdfIecOrmPmBKxanpPUWWB6JgIKq8uL8CcZfckzQS8RCk4Y OqFwSTn82J6w9pIe/r7O+5GCUmgrKaLgJisfjvr3uKwnJAupwADeJ4v8m8uF7JAJUj HG5uHSCQhSm1clDh1i/i+Vt4nQeFL49BtJ59wSpI= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 15:07:43 +0100 id 00000000005DC04F.000000004F6C83AF.0000786E Message-ID: <4F6C83AF.5030301@tana.it> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 15:07:43 +0100 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> <4F6C4E59.3050908@tana.it> <59BD2FDC-EC23-4677-BC75-D94ABE70B395@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <59BD2FDC-EC23-4677-BC75-D94ABE70B395@arin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:07:49 -0000 On 23/Mar/12 13:31, Andy Newton wrote: > On Mar 23, 2012, at 6:20 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > >>>> The cross product of local requirements and time evolution yields a >>>> complicated framework, where apps have to be targeted at specific >>>> classes of registries. Will we end up with just numbers and names, or >>>> rather numbers, names-com, names-thick, ..., names-etc? >>> >>> I think you are saying the data model should be extensible, which >>> is a goal inherited from 3707. >> >> Does CRISP allow local extensions like EPP? > > Even more so. :) > > But if you want it in the charter, [...] Personally, I'd prefer the charter to say that there are no local extensions. This is the one reason I like WEIRDS: to enable objects served by RIRs to be referenced from IETF protocol specifications, like DNS items are. For example, the abuse-mailbox of a given IP. (Obviously, this is a numbers-only expectation, since protocol needs for names, such as SPF records, go on DNS directly.) > my suggestion for para 7 last sentence is to change [...] > to this [...] > > an extensible data model capable > of supporting local extensions without substitution of core data > classes, and, specifically for name registries, a data model capturing > the needs of internationalized domain names. Would it be feasible to confine extensions to additional data items that can be ignored by generic apps? From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Fri Mar 23 07:13:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6DC621F8555 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:13:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.555 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.555 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.044, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vCH6skIcAdFm for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A7FC21F854E for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2NBJ3aq093656 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:19:03 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F6C84EA.6050101@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:12:58 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> <4F6C4E59.3050908@tana.it> <59BD2FDC-EC23-4677-BC75-D94ABE70B395@arin.net> <4F6C83AF.5030301@tana.it> In-Reply-To: <4F6C83AF.5030301@tana.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:13:06 -0000 On 3/23/12 10:07 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > Personally, I'd prefer the charter to say that there are no local > extensions. This is the one reason I like WEIRDS: to enable objects > served by RIRs to be referenced from IETF protocol specifications, > like DNS items are. our problem space may be more complex than that of a lookup mechanism over a loosely coupled distributed database implementing resource to address mapping. and, the uniqueness of that implementation has been problematic due to the absence of local extensions. cnnic turned on their root server constellation in november 2001, enabling support for han script as a "local extension", among other policy goals. -e From andy@arin.net Fri Mar 23 07:35:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520D721F8555 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:35:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XOclplbeUJUp for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B37D21F8518 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 2BC84164F7B; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:35:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA8D164F79; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:35:34 -0400 Received: from [10.1.0.49] (10.1.0.49) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:35:54 -0400 Message-ID: <4F6C8A33.6030609@arin.net> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:35:31 -0400 From: Andy Newton User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alessandro Vesely References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> <4F6C4E59.3050908@tana.it> <59BD2FDC-EC23-4677-BC75-D94ABE70B395@arin.net> <4F6C83AF.5030301@tana.it> In-Reply-To: <4F6C83AF.5030301@tana.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.1.0.49] Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:35:56 -0000 On 03/23/2012 10:07 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > Would it be feasible to confine extensions to additional data items > that can be ignored by generic apps? Yes, it is feasible. Take a look at Section 3 of draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01. I understand what you are trying to say... local extensions shouldn't inhibit the interpretation of standard values. But wordsmithing it into the charter may be too much. Since the charter specifically points to this draft and says "this is the type of thing we want" is that good enough? -andy From vesely@tana.it Fri Mar 23 07:53:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01BA721F854C for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:53:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.659 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.659 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hh1Z4Dk6ZWs2 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (www.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8264021F8541 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:52:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332514378; bh=qsPDQRLjJAaTmxtvirAgHW0/Sm8Rs8vdtAkq5j0Cy5Q=; l=746; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=bpGVJXRsLQFdmXURem1wmSr63k2A9ZJ53RJhLfpXjUZXufX+9crTVyqHKAvINEvDM YO2YYLQKj2dI6JRqvbFSRJHGFbEBBXpCcWpWK9mhJm9/PBvikv2Ae8I3vv8HWG/3iT JV3ZO8qpYblQGTWgXmH5wmY9xKN4N94pRiKgQNMA= Received: from [172.25.197.158] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.158]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 15:52:58 +0100 id 00000000005DC04A.000000004F6C8E4A.000004FF Message-ID: <4F6C8E4A.3050308@tana.it> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 15:52:58 +0100 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120320124647.09eb6078@resistor.net> <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> <4F6C4E59.3050908@tana.it> <59BD2FDC-EC23-4677-BC75-D94ABE70B395@arin.net> <4F6C83AF.5030301@tana.it> <4F6C8A33.6030609@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <4F6C8A33.6030609@arin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:53:04 -0000 On 23/Mar/12 15:35, Andy Newton wrote: > On 03/23/2012 10:07 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote: >> Would it be feasible to confine extensions to additional data items >> that can be ignored by generic apps? > > Yes, it is feasible. Take a look at Section 3 of > draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01. > > I understand what you are trying to say... local extensions shouldn't > inhibit the interpretation of standard values. But wordsmithing it > into the charter may be too much. Since the charter specifically > points to this draft and says "this is the type of thing we want" is > that good enough? Yes it is, thank you. I'm unable to get if such fashion and pattern may also cover the more complex problem space of names. From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Fri Mar 23 08:38:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83C0721F853A for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:38:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y0ueptMD6dZQ for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D7421F8518 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 325BC1ECB41D for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 15:38:38 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:38:35 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120323153835.GD1040@mail.yitter.info> References: <6EF8B5C7-3892-4B47-9BF7-430D119A81FE@arin.net> <5078D3D1-6898-4FBC-AE2E-2B425F70DD75@hxr.us> <4F6A2BEC.1070606@tana.it> <766915D2-FEF8-4816-9FFA-253F4CFF9CA1@hxr.us> <4F6B7716.5000204@tana.it> <4F6C4E59.3050908@tana.it> <59BD2FDC-EC23-4677-BC75-D94ABE70B395@arin.net> <4F6C83AF.5030301@tana.it> <4F6C8A33.6030609@arin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F6C8A33.6030609@arin.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Extensibility, was REVISED charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 15:38:39 -0000 On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:35:31AM -0400, Andy Newton wrote: > wordsmithing it into the charter may be too much. Since the charter > specifically points to this draft and says "this is the type of > thing we want" is that good enough? I say "yes". As I've tried to argue several times, attempting to write exactly what the result is going to do into the charter is putting the work in the wrong place. The charter should guide us, not tell us what to do. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From johnl@iecc.com Fri Mar 23 10:35:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B7421F860E for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:35:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.115, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uFBzbct2eJFo for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321FA21F8499 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 50090 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2012 17:35:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=c3a9.4f6cb449.k1203; bh=79kiO+dbaReu7Zm+TTQWl1SztEm9hRzfpphQcGQ1EtU=; b=DVWriXKfNfkC8fJcTxOU6yT48ldPrOkZQWlAmx0cS5rYCOeZ+mQUgxS8GNCaszAkVrh5lpUT1RayMneMiJoLSSxpdIaQz8EWfErGwej/HVJvWDLrx/Mi4fyz6aNUq4+uTWdkb4gH0NeeLcrGNxnDz94DH03887/qB59bUilOJY8= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 23 Mar 2012 17:34:43 -0000 Date: 23 Mar 2012 18:35:04 +0100 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Andy Newton" In-Reply-To: References: <20120322192837.21210.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 17:35:12 -0000 >> I specifically propose that the only authentication mechanism be HTTP basic authentication as described in RFC 2617, transported over HTTPS. If people have concrete reasons why that's inadequate, we can switch to any of the other usual suspects, but I don't want to say that you have to negotiate an authentication scheme separately with every provider unless there's an actual reason that's necessary. > > And now you have me concerned. In the ARIN region, we have APIKeys used for our restful registration service, template submissions, and access to bulk whois. Extending it to restful whois would be a natural for us. I think the RIPE NCC already has an active authentication scheme on their restful whois service. Are you saying we can no longer use those schemes? No, I'm pretty sure I said "If people have concrete reasons why that's inadequate, we can switch to any of the other usual suspects." Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Fri Mar 23 11:23:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51AFB21F8674 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:23:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rkV2pKheB7SD for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEFAC21F8629 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (69-196-144-227.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.196.144.227]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A547B1ECB41D for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2012 18:23:27 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:23:25 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120323182325.GH1271@mail.yitter.info> References: <20120322192837.21210.qmail@joyce.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 18:23:33 -0000 Again, isn't this an issue _for_ the WG, and not an issue _about_ the WG? That is, is there any reason at all that these decisions need to be made as part of the charter? I say no. A On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 06:35:04PM +0100, John R. Levine wrote: > >>I specifically propose that the only authentication mechanism be > >>HTTP > basic authentication as described in RFC 2617, transported over > HTTPS. If people have concrete reasons why that's inadequate, we can > switch to any of the other usual suspects, but I don't want to say > that you have to negotiate an authentication scheme separately with > every provider unless > > > there's an actual reason that's necessary. > > >And now you have me concerned. In the ARIN region, we have APIKeys used for our restful registration service, template submissions, and access to bulk whois. Extending it to restful whois would be a natural for us. I think the RIPE NCC already has an active authentication scheme on their restful whois service. Are you saying we can no longer use those schemes? > > No, I'm pretty sure I said "If people have concrete reasons why > that's inadequate, we can switch to any of the other usual > suspects." > > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From francisco.arias@icann.org Sun Mar 25 02:02:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D4921F84A5 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:02:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ILmbIZNL2fSq for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 401E721F842E for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:02:42 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Andy Newton , "John R. Levine" Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:02:35 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: Ac0KZgm2NgJMQHnAT7Onx4O2RtiOtA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:02:44 -0000 Perhaps the spec should have one mandatory auth schema and parties interested on having their own could specify theirs on informational RFCs. __ Francisco. On 3/23/12 5:13 AM, "Andy Newton" wrote: > >On Mar 22, 2012, at 5:48 PM, John R. Levine wrote: > >> I specifically propose that the only authentication mechanism be HTTP >>basic authentication as described in RFC 2617, transported over HTTPS. >>If people have concrete reasons why that's inadequate, we can switch to >>any of the other usual suspects, but I don't want to say that you have >>to negotiate an authentication scheme separately with every provider >>unless there's an actual reason that's necessary. > >And now you have me concerned. In the ARIN region, we have APIKeys used >for our restful registration service, template submissions, and access to >bulk whois. Extending it to restful whois would be a natural for us. I >think the RIPE NCC already has an active authentication scheme on their >restful whois service. Are you saying we can no longer use those schemes? > >If the US gov requires us to accept client certs signed by the USDOJ, >does that mean we cannot also accept client certs issued by the EU? Does >it mean we cannot participate in a ticket distribution scheme using HTTP >cookies initiated by ICANN? > >Authentication schemes are not mutually exclusive. We do not need to >mandate only one. And in the absence of policy driving one, the selection >of the mechanism to use is premature. > >-andy > >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From johnl@iecc.com Sun Mar 25 02:47:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADBF621F8550 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:47:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.492 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.492 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A8YgIvyY8EAq for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847B721F8512 for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2012 02:47:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 95162 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2012 09:47:32 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=173b9.4f6ee9b4.k1203; bh=L3Iq3UbqotiZGWE+jhEJYL1BiiyKpcTuKHSbnNIuAk0=; b=GYSfKhdVLmIY546EJM2q9RzVnUP7rNqirhsskWUP5ZcISzmLY1ROhKB+rmC0/xJQhyxdxaHSbLEAP0Kb0BkJLJ8PBUK7R6uZ4EY9zFpkkig0ZlFhNL9rR0MB0q+Fsh1voALGc+MCX08pKmJJqARwaVqN26L7peoYhorlu8PZymA= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 25 Mar 2012 09:47:10 -0000 Date: 25 Mar 2012 11:47:30 +0200 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "Francisco Arias" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:47:35 -0000 > Perhaps the spec should have one mandatory auth schema and parties > interested on having their own could specify theirs on informational RFCs. If that's workable, that would be great. I get the impression that the strength of the authentication depends on its purpose. If you're just relaxing rate limits, fairly weak auth might be OK, if you're showing PII for law enforcement, stronger auth would be needed. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From avri@acm.org Mon Mar 26 04:23:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109B121F85EF for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 04:23:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.288 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.288 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YenZMk3yULku for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 04:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com (psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC7921F85ED for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 04:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from psg.com ([147.28.0.62] helo=[127.0.0.1]) by psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.77 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1SC81I-0003mV-40 for weirds@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:23:28 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) From: Avri Doria In-Reply-To: <2342D038-2C3B-4B47-BC76-1DA19980827F@arin.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:23:27 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4D64790F-F35B-4943-BF94-38CE99B7E267@acm.org> References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> <16641fc7-3301-4995-a92c-2072467eab6f@email.android.com> <4F68F8D1.3020400@Commerco.Com> <2342D038-2C3B-4B47-BC76-1DA19980827F@arin.net> To: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:23:32 -0000 Hi, Sorry been traveling. I think there are small differences between the two phrase,=20 - as an initial foundation seems to mean we have decided to build on = these documents - as an initial basis seems to mean we have decided that these provide = the starting point for the discussion I prefer the 'as an initial basis' as I don't think the charter should = pre-determine the decisions the WG will/would make. But the difference might just be a nuance, so I could live with either, = as long as we are clear about not limiting ourselves to just these two = documents in terms of foundations of the work.=20 thanks avri On 21 Mar 2012, at 08:59, Andy Newton wrote: >=20 > On Mar 20, 2012, at 5:38 PM, Alan Maitland wrote: >=20 >>> substitue "as a basis going forward" with "as an initial basis" >>>=20 >>> Avri >>>=20 >>=20 >> Agree, though I would use the word "foundation" to replace "basis". >=20 > I'm fine with either. Avri? >=20 > -andy >=20 From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Mon Mar 26 06:47:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2D9121E8013 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 06:47:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YFSxRCWmF2Oq for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 06:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F2D21F846A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 06:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2QAr07k014866 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 06:53:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F70737B.9020304@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 09:47:39 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> In-Reply-To: <57C5226B-E263-4DB3-835E-979EAE5F8F52@arin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:47:47 -0000 Colleagues, I'm not proposing a re-write of the charter, but there are some things I'm pointing out: The rational offered is a perceived, undifferentiated requirement for consistency. As spam, trademark, and law enforcement, even .C (conficker) interest is not name space indifferent, and may not be address space indifferent, the rational offered is an over-requirement, or worse, the substitution of one requirement for one or more requirements. The dream of a universally valid contact form has been pursued before, with little success. A single data model for what constitutes a legal service address (we should not flinch from identifying why a "valid postal address" is sought by some requirement proponents) may not be a tractable goal, and data models may be less than universally scoped. The mechanism could be called "lookup" or ... but it is simply another form of publication, ancillary to the form of publication we had initially via hosttables, published over port 21, and currently via a distributed lookup on port 53. The exhaustive (or simply large scale sampling) acquisition of contact information (email, but also phone and other social data relations) by third parties has been and remains an identified problem. The original (954) publication was limited to the DoD/DARPA requestors. The repurposing of 954, removing limits upon publication, is not a requirement, though this has been the situation in fact since the privitization of the public names and addresses infrastructures. A possible goal of WIERDS is to specify mechanisms capable of scalable limits on publication, among other possible goals. Proposed changes to the operative text: > This Working Group shall determine the general needs of such a > service, and standardize a single data framework. s/standardize a single data framework./propose one or more data formats, appropriate to the applicable constraints./ > ... That framework > shall be used to encapsulate objects that could form part of an > answer. The framework shall be for data to be delivered via a > RESTful data service using HTTP (optionally using TLS). No change other than to conditionally pluralize "framework" as "framework(s)". > ... The data > shall have one mandatory format, though the working group may consider > other optional formats. s/one mandatory format,/specified format(s), appropriate to the applicable constraints,/ s/though the working group may consider other optional formats./and the working group may specify additional formats./ > ... The overall effort will be broadly aligned with > a subset of the Cross Registry Internet Service Protocol (CRISP) > Requirements (RFC 3707), but with the explicit additional goals of > producing a simple, easy-to-implement protocol, supporting > internationalized registration data and, I don't think constraining this working group to any prior is inherently harmless, so out of caution I propose removing this long clause. > ... specifically for > name registries, a data model capturing the needs of internationalized > domain names. s/a data model/appropriate data model(s)/. Broadly, a single requirement means we're treating all current, and likely, identifier allocators as having no salient differences, which may be less useful than recognizing those differences which do "make a difference". Eric From dave.piscitello@icann.org Mon Mar 26 07:36:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8647521E80AB for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:36:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.565 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.565 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.034, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2FMkGMDAc5Z1 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38D021E809C for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:36:44 -0700 From: Dave Piscitello To: "John R. Levine" Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 07:36:43 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise Thread-Index: Ac0LXd3PLMr2swmoR9ueJ/pyttflog== Message-ID: <2F54DD68-885D-4796-99EF-40C82A46310E@icann.org> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] REVISED Re: a charter offering compromise X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:36:45 -0000 This is very workable within the SSL framework. If you wanted (or policy required), you'd support different auth methods fo= r different user groups/communities. Accommodate for this kind of requireme= nt and leave the issue of identifying/validating user groups to whatever po= licy process applies. On Mar 25, 2012, at 5:47 AM, John R. Levine wrote: >> Perhaps the spec should have one mandatory auth schema and parties >> interested on having their own could specify theirs on informational RFC= s. >=20 > If that's workable, that would be great. I get the impression that the=20 > strength of the authentication depends on its purpose. If you're just=20 > relaxing rate limits, fairly weak auth might be OK, if you're showing PII= =20 > for law enforcement, stronger auth would be needed. >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dum= mies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From andy@hxr.us Mon Mar 26 10:02:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D8521E8116 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SHoiF1N404Yv for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-f172.google.com (mail-we0-f172.google.com [74.125.82.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F7721E80BE for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by werb10 with SMTP id b10so5214967wer.31 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:02:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:subject:date:message-id:to:mime-version:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=jZRoW37kR5iM8szR40ct97oBlb2gmAh/n6yDaprstgw=; b=aJ+bs4H0SPsdAiB0m+HYw0yZr2Wam62sSryPw0//IvevMCiXKbSEI9acMlH9xtwH8U oScG/qzKswraMPVbIrYkYKQQkPL2UMP8h1XFkvv6aWRwJPrv9h5ZaxfoBasZnsGPfo+k iExqT/rX6Pgxk9WmADjR0Luk7uvzEaiwu+YPiANz1sXTESTZoSRmLeceZfqY2p+SsFBd lT3EgCCZ/HJz09CigQKyArXQMNMMq9QeqoVXI5ivqrJwMFGb1KXUqmNmRsmuxsyGY5dB 5GqZq+ZP/tmwih3WfPjoi1U4SG4cV3ZywQkd3wf8I096KmsTS/9CQL5uSY+vnEVjJOvb KWKQ== Received: by 10.216.135.225 with SMTP id u75mr11984883wei.97.1332781322068; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.59.90.223] (access-50.80.rev.fr.colt.net. [213.41.80.50]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b3sm42242946wib.4.2012.03.26.10.02.00 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:02:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Newton Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_00859E4A-2385-4E06-88F8-44328156E6B3" Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:02:00 +0200 Message-Id: To: weirds@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlRRy/5VHFM87YWr3vHZkQwuK1e9m3AkP4s15nu8Ir8BEXGbUYORWZ5T8m4zNi+Lsv1O+Dl Subject: [weirds] DRAFT Charter v 2012-03-20aln.3 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:02:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_00859E4A-2385-4E06-88F8-44328156E6B3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have updated the charter text to incorporate the changes discussed on = the mailing list. See the attachment. At this point I would ask that the worksmithing come to an end. After = all, it is the IESG that finalizes the charter and they can change the = text on us as it is they who are chartering the working group on behalf = of the IETF. A couple of notes on what was not incorporated. 1. As Eric Brunner-Williams changes are very new, there has been no = discussion on them, and I do not feel comfortable incorporating them as = they seem to suggest very substantive changes. 2. My reading of the extensibility thread is that the text can be left = out of the charter as it is covered indirectly in the reference to RFC = 3707 and the RIR drafts, but that there was acceptance of the ideas = expressed. As this has been recorded in the mailing list, reference to = it in the list archives will be available should a charter issue = surrounding extensibility arise. This is also true for other issues that = met agreement but did not warrant a change to the charter text. 3. The revision provided by Ed Lewis did not seem to meet any agreement = other than mine, and I do not feel comfortable including it as the = changed text was non-trivial. -andy --Apple-Mail=_00859E4A-2385-4E06-88F8-44328156E6B3 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=weirds_charter.txt Content-Type: text/plain; name="weirds_charter.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (weirds) ---------------------------------------------------------- DRAFT Charter v 2012-03-20aln.3 Chairs: TBD Applications Area Directors: Pete Resnick, Peter Saint-Andre, and Barry Leiba Description of Working Group: Internet registries for both number resources and names have historically maintained a lookup service to permit public access to some portion of the registry database. Most registries offer the service via WHOIS (RFC 3912), with additional services being offered via world wide web pages, bulk downloads, and other services like RPSL (RFC 2622). WHOIS has never been internationalized. In the absence of formal specification, ad hoc solutions to signal internationalized registration data have been adopted and deployed. Providing a standards-base solution that scales well could minimize further proliferation of ad hoc solutions. WHOIS also has no data model: replies are basically just free-form text. This means that processing of WHOIS output amounts to "screen-scraping", with specialized handlers for every service. Many of the domain name registries do share a basic common output format, although the addition of data elements changes the output and may cause problems for parsers of the data. The WHOIS protocol does not offer any differential service; it cannot differentiate among clients to offer different subsets of information or to allow different access rates to it. Various attempts to solve the limitations of WHOIS have met with mixed success. The most recent of these was IRIS (RFC 3891). IRIS has not been a successful replacement for WHOIS. The primary technical reason for this appears to be the complexity of IRIS, the fact that it builds upon many available technologies that in the aggregate form a complex system. There may also exist non-technical reasons, but they lie in areas upon which the IETF does not pass judgement. In recent years, ARIN and RIPE NCC have fielded production RESTful web services to serve WHOIS data, and each has met with success. It is widely believed that this simpler re-use of Web technologies familiar to modern web developers has enabled this success. The purpose of this working group is to broaden the use of RESTful web services by achieving simple and common URI patterns and responses amenable to all number resource and domain name registries. This Working Group shall determine the general needs of such a service, and standardize a single data framework. That framework shall be used to encapsulate objects that could form part of an answer. The framework shall be for data to be delivered via a RESTful data service using HTTP (optionally using TLS), and may use standard features of HTTP to support differential service levels to different classes of user. The data shall have one mandatory format, though the working group may consider other optional formats. The overall effort will be broadly aligned with a subset of the Cross Registry Internet Service Protocol (CRISP) Requirements (RFC 3707), but with the explicit additional goals of producing a simple, easy-to-implement protocol, supporting internationalized registration data and, specifically for name registries, a data model capturing the needs of internationalized domain names. As the number registries have more experience with these services and have found common ground with their dissimilarities resulting in more complete working group input documents, the goals of the working group are to produce standards-track specifications for both number and name registries using the fashion and pattern of the number registry input documents, draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-query and draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response, as an initial basis. The Working Group shall determine the general requirements of such a service, using draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements as an input document, and standardize a single data framework. Milestones November 2012 Draft WEIRDS requirements to IESG for publication as Informational RFC. April 2013 Draft WEIRDS specification for number resources to IESG for publication on the standards track. July 2013 Draft WEIRDS specifications for name registries to IESG for publication on the standards track. --Apple-Mail=_00859E4A-2385-4E06-88F8-44328156E6B3-- From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Mon Mar 26 11:51:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601F921F84EF for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:51:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.558 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.041, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NYzrb8L9sIFI for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F2B21E80CE for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2QFuVPv016900 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:56:32 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F70BAA1.9050401@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:51:13 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120313 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] DRAFT Charter v 2012-03-20aln.3 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:51:23 -0000 On 3/26/12 1:02 PM, Andy Newton wrote: > 1. As Eric Brunner-Williams changes are very new, there has been no discussion on them, and I do not feel comfortable incorporating them as they seem to suggest very substantive changes. hmm. s/foo/foo\(s\)/ ok. one size fits all may have been tried previously. several times. -e From msk@cloudmark.com Mon Mar 26 20:20:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A277B21E805F for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:20:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9EgKOQmNcbgV for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26F8121E8019 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::e82a:4f80:7f44:eaf7%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:20:13 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHNC8hnHnUQvwMfKk6tQt7UEeUJdJZ9eVKw Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:20:12 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.22.1.152] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43Eexchmbx901corpclo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] FW: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:20:14 -0000 --_002_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43Eexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No surprises here, just a long overdue shuffle of the material based on som= e suggestions by Peter Koch. -MSK --_002_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43Eexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: attachment; creation-date="Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:20:11 GMT"; modification-date="Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:20:11 GMT" Received: from mail.cloudmark.com (208.83.136.59) by ht2.cloudmark.com (172.22.10.81) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:19:22 -0700 Received: from cmgw1.cloudmark.com ?(cmgw1.cloudmark.com [208.83.136.25]) by mail.cloudmark.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2R3HrYD004574 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:19:22 -0700 (envelope-from internet-drafts@ietf.org) Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by mail.cloudmark.com with bizsmtp id qTKT1i0010f7nZY01TKTKP; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:19:27 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F251021E8019 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tw2hqMRfjCDT for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CD8021E8045 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:19:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Subject: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHNC8hnHnUQvwMfKk6tQt7UEeUJdA== Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 03:19:21 +0000 Message-ID: <20120327031921.32456.54708.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SenderIdResult: Pass X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SCL: -1 X-MS-Exchange-Organization-PRD: ietf.org X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: received-spf: Pass (exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com: domain of internet-drafts@ietf.org designates 12.22.58.30 as permitted sender) receiver=exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com; client-ip=12.22.58.30; helo=mail.cloudmark.com; dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudmark.com; s=default; t=1332818368; bh=LsvgKZcwu8SEmTlsL5UhMt+WSb+GEak4MYoWPOQ6PwQ=; h=MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:From:To: Subject:Message-ID:Date; b=vmsT27odjC1fFvALluZjbZnvs95v5YpOKDEwgFp64ZNMrV/y5rhC88X+2B4T8PcJL fdb4MayyXN/8MIWCe4/mtZ2mJQZt1C792uafDbc+Jf9h6Zy84nmBfV6jNb9U6Fx3D+ VHAG3zxWc2WeV5XNt1+I1VuYqbaAXumFLb6x9pn0= x-virus-scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com x-cmae-score: 0.00 x-cmae-analysis: v=2.0 cv=AK3EY2DH c=1 sm=1 a=GU4rwa5YvsQnE15YQEkOQw==:17 a=UOlZEIM85XIA:10 a=LSVET5z0puwA:10 a=EMIiL0OlH3IA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=ltBHLcsbyvkz3hc40HYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=GU4rwa5YvsQnE15YQEkOQw==:117 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 QSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBJLUQsIGRyYWZ0LWt1Y2hlcmF3eS13ZWlyZHMtcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRz LTAzLnR4dCBoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWNjZXNzZnVsbHkgc3VibWl0dGVkIGJ5IE11cnJheSBTLiBLdWNo ZXJhd3kgYW5kIHBvc3RlZCB0byB0aGUgSUVURiByZXBvc2l0b3J5Lg0KDQpGaWxlbmFtZToJIGRy YWZ0LWt1Y2hlcmF3eS13ZWlyZHMtcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzDQpSZXZpc2lvbjoJIDAzDQpUaXRsZToJ CSBSZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgRm9yIEludGVybmV0IFJlZ2lzdHJ5IFNlcnZpY2VzDQpDcmVhdGlvbiBk YXRlOgkgMjAxMi0wMy0yNg0KV0cgSUQ6CQkgSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJtaXNzaW9uDQpOdW1iZXIg b2YgcGFnZXM6IDcNCg0KQWJzdHJhY3Q6DQogICBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGVudW1lcmF0ZXMgYSBi YXNlIHNldCBvZiByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgdG8gYmUgaW5jbHVkZWQgaW4NCiAgIGFueSBzeXN0ZW0g dGhhdCBwcm92aWRlcyByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24gaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gZm9yIEludGVybmV0DQogICBy ZWdpc3RyYXRpb24gZW50aXRpZXMsIGkuZS4sIG5ldHdvcmsgYW5kL29yIGRvbWFpbiBuYW1lIGFz c2lnbm1lbnRzLg0KICAgU29tZSBvZiB0aGVzZSwgaW4gdHVybiwgd2lsbCBkZWZpbmUgcmVxdWly ZW1lbnRzIGZvciByZWdpc3RyYXJzOw0KICAgdGhpcywgaG93ZXZlciwgaXMgYW4gaXNzdWUgb3V0 c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgc2NvcGUgb2YgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudC4NCg0KICAgSXQgaXMgaG9wZWQgdGhh dCB0aGlzIHdvcmsgd2lsbCBhbHNvIGluZmx1ZW5jZSB0aGUgZGV2ZWxvcG1lbnQgb2YNCiAgIHJl cXVpcmVtZW50cyBhbmQgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbnMgZm9yIGRvbWFpbiBuYW1lIHJlZ2lzdHJpZXMg YXQgc29tZQ0KICAgcG9pbnQgaW4gdGhlIGZ1dHVyZS4NCg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgIA0KDQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQo= --_002_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43Eexchmbx901corpclo_-- From andy@hxr.us Mon Mar 26 22:48:34 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2E721F8749 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:48:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vljPZIDXfTPy for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-f42.google.com (mail-wg0-f42.google.com [74.125.82.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9298421F874C for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgbds11 with SMTP id ds11so3050253wgb.1 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:48:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=e9e5ktH7/dd2ybnfUN4jb/p8WLwYrtjSbxGKnVEbUuk=; b=hqtcXO1AnCJXc5D2n89qcF8HUCBcyNCyAKyoi2POWddGtw+hrtVTCauA7MLrg6ROUQ ugJyr1IslVm6U+qpPE2fi1T37b2AdKnoqMnFz/6b4ys+vGdnW/Mr5RUnk0d+gkqID0jN enEDFGcMAxzZ+9q38TmI66WStmhyPwsvENysa8lxVVEeXf6nWH0Vx3SIvxPOjkDR4Zxp 42l7ifJu+jhrb4cY8FhW2Xe4zurtvxg6OU7t0VxiH5+nZUs2tmq0h7VFrz3xLrTH14ZH Rl+M5+Lf77pM2zsA56KkaYAVZZR+dRknAdIsAgcKmJqpK6m+QUxsSUeX3RrvzxghbfVB CFCA== Received: by 10.180.79.135 with SMTP id j7mr24215243wix.19.1332827311752; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.59.90.223] (access-49.80.rev.fr.colt.net. [213.41.80.49]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id bx13sm46689053wib.10.2012.03.26.22.48.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:48:30 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 07:48:31 +0200 Message-Id: <8B9E64EC-605A-47AD-9348-8E94A17EF1D7@hxr.us> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl+zeSq3QxvKaLaUI0yrCdhWmU3/fqNDusFT2zovMeay8QVUM/Vu5vZQjZSsAeMisvvtUuZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 05:48:34 -0000 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements/ From andy@hxr.us Mon Mar 26 23:20:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B89021F8773 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:20:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.044 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.044 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.555, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xGKsj4O-hokh for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E2721F8777 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibhj6 with SMTP id hj6so4084488wib.13 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:20:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=TbDvFCj+ffaygooOBvYl5wzDG3gfxPCvsUcuuLkMPmk=; b=E3ZxP2orVwatv3iRsX8KdDFXV2MxANX6wSkx73CMJOXcivsvQoSNejijItNsstu6px QRFJWG+WAYu9bnm9q/+5neOF+5WZA9vlR/++4/IoYH0bIXgJ7Wn8rciMjbQCn/yDylL8 eI/v4kRbGrr+q9nfWNZTK/235nyA+KqMRkAPq189YUapEpHkLCkRcrx9bZWm2Gydb3W9 IcI82pu0FjxMrg6ybJIDZfNQnSIhIntJXnrOoYiQEOJW0tPR8NzWWxm85GGph6iZv1mZ XVOdgBKDoUNyyxfuQs+Fet22jlCMmsheHZlKl4rY4bO8Lh9hOnLp4wb23GSKKKuGleGz 7buQ== Received: by 10.180.96.228 with SMTP id dv4mr24559493wib.14.1332829231553; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.59.90.223] (access-49.80.rev.fr.colt.net. [213.41.80.49]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l5sm46908506wia.11.2012.03.26.23.20.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:20:32 +0200 Message-Id: References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlRTukjB0nToYPWKBMVDwIiwu+HriKzRncts3ngnZ3SJrq9EhRgOrZeoiJYVOcRBEHuqctv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: [weirds] Introduction: draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 06:20:33 -0000 Section 1 of the draft speaks to the background of the effort, noting = that Whois is widely deployed and that the CRISP effort failed. Then it = launches into "here are new requirements" without stating why things = will be different this time. I suggest stealing some of the charter text = that talks about RESTful whois services that have been deployed and that = have seen good adoption, and how that is our last, best hope for = mankind, blah blah blah. -andy= From andy@hxr.us Mon Mar 26 23:35:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA5E21F876E for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:35:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.229 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.229 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.370, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B+AM4-JW0PSD for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-f44.google.com (mail-wg0-f44.google.com [74.125.82.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2A821E805A for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:35:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgbdr13 with SMTP id dr13so3092112wgb.13 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:35:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=j9GcsgHTNicEunvdvIHwZ/tfpYybeMDQDRldHhjHkOk=; b=Uxewvumv9JHLSm6A+srXiza2PPY8i7K/v0YoC1mDnm8z7XHzWIIFWWMYJ13wYNv/J4 ITy535bfkyJsrLHWoHoPAYna0m51/iXfycheme0T7gU2Je1m8gWjSSUpJc6zfEskklyE KW7uZhdj3W3dg2EGVC7QkIN+lhaiJ6WPSVCHUFjTazAxqpmROGo0nMgKfdK10/z3nlYb hZxi8kIpdi/vxdap0rK+4/xptrb0s9ZizYd2QPOXzQ7p1QTX/eymEcK6n7NoKjqRwe+M QtCM4bz+vwHmq3CEMM/2SglErCrMrZ3hfzKTM5TyEFWeUuiZuwlSu2c0P9iInWOMOUeg 0LUQ== Received: by 10.180.103.134 with SMTP id fw6mr26963833wib.0.1332830134893; Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.59.90.223] (access-49.80.rev.fr.colt.net. [213.41.80.49]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id o2sm77262181wiv.11.2012.03.26.23.35.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 26 Mar 2012 23:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:35:34 +0200 Message-Id: <54CE7B6B-FF88-4DA0-8918-A34471642C25@hxr.us> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmabXU9FrP2ZAoHAKTu+t5Bi0gd42TZNNZDo3WZ6iyiETqet609T69sisYnVcuzfceyxJGC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: [weirds] Classes of Service: draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 06:35:36 -0000 Section 3.2 talks about classes of service but neglects the users from = whom Whois was originally created: resource registrants and network = operators. I suggest creatively appropriating the text from sections = 2.4.1 and 2.4.2 from RFC 3707. Actually, all of section 2 of RFC 3707 = discusses the many actors and registry types being discussed (though it = needs a little reorganization). I don't know if that would help with = background on the problem space as I'm always confused about the target = audience for these requirements documents. -andy= From nkong@cnnic.cn Tue Mar 27 01:12:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 207D321F8734 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:12:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.227 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.227 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.372, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fr40DFytJsDy for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [159.226.7.146]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A221221F8665 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:12:26 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: nkong@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO naptrthink) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:12:22 +0800 From: "Ning Kong" To: "'Andy Newton'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:12:14 +0800 Message-ID: <008401cd0bf1$5469b4d0$fd3d1e70$@cnnic.cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQN2wNjovxnUGZ007Uc2LF36ZTsC0JMqYGGw Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [weirds] DRAFT Charter v 2012-03-20aln.3 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:12:28 -0000 Nits: IRIS (RFC 3891) ----> IRIS (RFC 3981) Ning > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Andy Newton > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:02 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: [weirds] DRAFT Charter v 2012-03-20aln.3 > > I have updated the charter text to incorporate the changes discussed on the > mailing list. See the attachment. > > At this point I would ask that the worksmithing come to an end. After all, it is > the IESG that finalizes the charter and they can change the text on us as it is > they who are chartering the working group on behalf of the IETF. > > A couple of notes on what was not incorporated. > > 1. As Eric Brunner-Williams changes are very new, there has been no > discussion on them, and I do not feel comfortable incorporating them as they > seem to suggest very substantive changes. > > 2. My reading of the extensibility thread is that the text can be left out of the > charter as it is covered indirectly in the reference to RFC 3707 and the RIR > drafts, but that there was acceptance of the ideas expressed. As this has been > recorded in the mailing list, reference to it in the list archives will be available > should a charter issue surrounding extensibility arise. This is also true for > other issues that met agreement but did not warrant a change to the charter > text. > > 3. The revision provided by Ed Lewis did not seem to meet any agreement > other than mine, and I do not feel comfortable including it as the changed > text was non-trivial. > > -andy From andy@arin.net Tue Mar 27 01:30:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E1021F88B4 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:30:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vQ+2Qz2HGfqN for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 466CD21F88B8 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 01:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 56EF4164F31; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03EB0164F2F; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:29:32 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.91]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:29:39 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Thread-Topic: Reply Syntax: draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHNC/O/8yN5ogaNnEiIGsKAey/g8Q== Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:29:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6B3017A85F9B62468E97E9F5109F9734@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: [weirds] Reply Syntax: draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:30:04 -0000 Section 3 item 3 says: The protocol MUST consist of a reply syntax that uses a well- established generic encoding mechanism such as XML or JSON. [We need to choose one and standardize on it.] There's really nothing about extensibility, as has been discussed on this l= ist. I suggest the following change: For replies, the protocol MUST use a data format that is well-establishe= d. The use of this data format MUST incorporate necessary features so that = core data classes can be extended easily and without the need to substitute t= hose core data classes to accommodate local or non-standard extensions. This extensibility MUST NOT require clients to be programmed for local extens= ions to interpret the standardized data classes. I think this addresses the point Alessandro Vesely brought up. -andy= From aservin@lacnic.net Tue Mar 27 04:40:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB52E21F89C7 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:40:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id croTy3FvXAS6 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D02221F89C3 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 85-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.85.78]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78C2308427; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:39:58 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 13:39:52 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9434638A-EC72-4035-8B58-663DCAA61EAB@lacnic.net> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:40:23 -0000 Section 3.2 Instead of: "The design of servers supporting the above protocol = needs to consider support for the following likely classes of service for clients:" I would like something more like: "The design of servers supporting the above protocol needs to = consider support for different classes of service, for example:" I mention this because the types of services that each operator = may support could (or it will) be dictated by policy.=20 Section 3.3 I think that some of the content of this section should be = documented in the names and numbers data models. I suggest to remove: " * The date/time on which the record most recently changed owners/ registrants * The date/time on which any other part of the record was modified * The identifier of the registrar that created the record (e.g., the registrar ID) * The identifier of the registrant that created the record (e.g., the registrant ID) * For network registration records, the range of addresses comprising the assigned subnet " Also, I am not sure that all RIRs databases have all these data = or if by policy those data is published or not. We analized the current = output of RIRs whois and not all of the mentioned above is shown, either = because the RIR does not have data about it or because of policy. In either case I think that "The creation date/time of the record" = should be the only one mandatory. I am ok with the last one: "A server MAY provide different output based on the nature of the client, where such can be definitively determined. " For the security considerations, should be add something about = privacy, DoS attacks, loops because of redirection, etc. that operators = or the protocol itself should take care of?=20 Regards, /as On 27 Mar 2012, at 05:20, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > No surprises here, just a long overdue shuffle of the material based = on some suggestions by Peter Koch. >=20 > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From sm@resistor.net Tue Mar 27 05:00:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A14B121F8A05 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 05:00:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.624 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.624 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id whPO082mMUCt for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 05:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F363221F8864 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 05:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2RC0gfm017640; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 05:00:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1332849647; i=@resistor.net; bh=G7ckNz7sqUU/hUiniFKlXaSkvsUwaIH7g3w4j/b0yNU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=J8xfmnbpGuwwq4NcWhp16Fy8bQc1Kc3w2zXmX/ksujwemjmSSGpqCdX0Xa7FtXDQs 9KSNNtjfCc/BXb07aGzeCN6/n95dHZVF7zfWE8euEdDw5Jwx8jIxpc30EwMGFIwio2 11x+9sQ9QaHzErszbwLQVVpN30bizAdCXRdli9oY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1332849647; i=@resistor.net; bh=G7ckNz7sqUU/hUiniFKlXaSkvsUwaIH7g3w4j/b0yNU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=y8YQR5LxcLRR0TpDfdTbxEaZbePwU8VJIxqEZ9+UOtpFABmoGy0TnE/2uY3N+ivSn WnnEf/D7HLUwGiU3Bu216zjxY9N5rkXuzAw1ZaTnxbf0D60bS9Jajk5cAwvXAN909B Fj6v+g7carYPH+k0mNRFy4I9S2ksyK0wqJGrGQBI= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120327045659.0b999cf0@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 04:59:14 -0700 To: Arturo Servin From: SM In-Reply-To: <9434638A-EC72-4035-8B58-663DCAA61EAB@lacnic.net> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <9434638A-EC72-4035-8B58-663DCAA61EAB@lacnic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:00:48 -0000 Hi Arturo, At 04:39 27-03-2012, Arturo Servin wrote: > Also, I am not sure that all RIRs databases have all these > data or if by policy those data is published or not. We analized > the current output of RIRs whois and not all of the mentioned above > is shown, either because the RIR does not have data about it or > because of policy. It's an implementation detail. For the purposes of this group, it could be viewed as a policy matter. Regards, -sm From james.mitchell@ausregistry.com.au Tue Mar 27 08:56:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D438E21E825F for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.805 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.805 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 52JvBDZdmlJ1 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32AD21E8135 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 08:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 28 Mar 2012 02:56:19 +1100 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:56:04 +1100 From: James Mitchell To: Arturo Servin , Murray S.Kucherawy Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:56:18 +1100 Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt Thread-Index: Ac0MMh1B9WomTEobT+SCPsH12j9oPA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9434638A-EC72-4035-8B58-663DCAA61EAB@lacnic.net> Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:56:22 -0000 On 27/03/12 10:39 PM, "Arturo Servin" wrote: > > Section 3.3 > > I think that some of the content of this section should be documented in >the names and numbers data models. I suggest to remove: > >" > * The date/time on which the record most recently changed owners/ > registrants > > * The date/time on which any other part of the record was > modified > > * The identifier of the registrar that created the record (e.g., > the registrar ID) > > * The identifier of the registrant that created the record (e.g., > the registrant ID) > > * For network registration records, the range of addresses > comprising the assigned subnet >" +1 > >In either case I think that "The creation date/time of the record" should >be the only one mandatory. +The requirements document should not prescribe mandatory data elements. I'm going to go further and say that, at least in the names documents, all data elements are optional to reduce barriers to adoption for all name registries. This group may decide that certain elements are recommended, for example the creation date/time for the benefit of automated spam detection/filtering tools etc, however this is as far as it should go. As an example, and with hope that this does not turn into a discussion regarding specific registry policies, consider the response to a .com.au whois where the creation and expiration dates are withheld as a means to reduce frequency of fake renewal notices (registrations are for a fixed 2 year period). By mandating the creation date/time element you will force their hand to either 1, not implement the product of this group, 2, create a similar but incompatible response format, or 3, change their policy. I don't think this group should gamble on 3. Regards James From vesely@tana.it Tue Mar 27 10:26:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F9B321E8048 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:26:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.719 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.719 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3mQDaG6vb1PC for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (wmail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA2821E8044 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332869179; bh=htyX2PKvtk0HjnjKvCMOyZ4pbzG4U99esTAgjeImGu8=; l=789; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=FY3Gw0G+WVOIISJB9yee0wOC4xWpnPPyw98RzoOWZ5uAC2Qrre/LghptU8sgMUaSh nn/LsT3DzizXekfHPINqRZQmdrzx2vfFRrwhpOXRC5zjUvycnVgNWmwriLRcppS7US hw7e6CtPOPgUAVR3nVAEPixrFDdu2I2SrK7tdGpU= Received: from [130.129.17.62] (dhcp-113e.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.17.62]) (AUTH: PLAIN 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:26:17 +0200 id 00000000005DC033.000000004F71F83A.000059BC Message-ID: <4F71F830.2040907@tana.it> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:26:08 +0200 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120312 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BA43E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Reply Syntax: draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:26:23 -0000 On Tue 27/Mar/2012 19:12:28 +0200 Andy Newton wrote: > There's really nothing about extensibility, as has been discussed on this > list. I suggest the following change: > > For replies, the protocol MUST use a data format that is well-established. > The use of this data format MUST incorporate necessary features so that core > data classes can be extended easily and without the need to substitute those > core data classes to accommodate local or non-standard extensions. This > extensibility MUST NOT require clients to be programmed for local extensions > to interpret the standardized data classes. > > I think this addresses the point Alessandro Vesely brought up. Yeah, thanks. Maybe such considerations belong more to Section 3.3, along with other reply elements. From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Tue Mar 27 12:31:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A34121E80EA for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:31:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.221, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3dTIziWUNJNE for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mail.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A71521E80E8 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:31:47 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: MIME-Version; b=qQ+p0cWY0Q0QTCmKLfqpT+TsYYwT90qa0COq8rjGm8n/xnQoGMyIQPin jCUFvnyE8ITDP9a0ZTbOeR6g8/AuYJ6fACPLYOAOhw9arHMJmDUekTLgZ 7iEr/tXQrd3hqzS; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1332876707; x=1364412707; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20New=20Version=20Notification =20for=0D=0A=20draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt |Date:=20Tue,=2027=20Mar=202012=2019:31:43=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20|To:=20James=20Mitchell=20|CC:=20"weirds@ietf.org"=20|MIME-Version:=201.0|In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20; bh=gb6WNxlH51DrmJkTdcoQ1s3MzrJ78SoBZhRxwyOP/ok=; b=QLzqSJGd2MmEci3yZ1DPRyG/BTYoredMoVfH0TyJzyvHdAS4nFntTgkB fmqVavps4jsX0XA7TOwrmfU/B93xyPdgDctRV29E1jj6PJKVUKVgK3TE3 reQLLPW8GvODSOD; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,327,1330905600"; d="scan'208,217";a="39353732" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2012 20:31:46 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:31:45 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: James Mitchell Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHNDDIrT170MASbG06ubD3ctF3lOZZ+d1KA Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:31:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B0E56CF08CD7448AB8F53F72B5E359D2nominetorguk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:31:48 -0000 --_000_B0E56CF08CD7448AB8F53F72B5E359D2nominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 27 Mar 2012, at 17:56, James Mitchell wrote: +The requirements document should not prescribe mandatory data elements. I'm going to go further and say that, at least in the names documents, all data elements are optional to reduce barriers to adoption for all name registries. +lots I had this very conversation with Jim Galvin in the corridors after the mee= ting - mandating elements is a policy decision. The protocol need to be flexible enough to permit registries to decide for = themselves what data is to be published. This also needs to be supported by the data formats. If using XML / XSD, _= every_ element needs to be optional. That may make it impossible to direct= ly import EPP-based schemas, which often have mandatory elements. Ray --_000_B0E56CF08CD7448AB8F53F72B5E359D2nominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <90d4f7e7-3d14-4bc7-8231-b4a65c1ac29e> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 27 Mar 2012, at 17:5= 6, James Mitchell wrote:

+The requirements docum= ent should not prescribe mandatory data elements.
I'm going to go furthe= r and say that, at least in the names documents, all
data elements are o= ptional to reduce barriers to adoption for all name
registries.

+lots

I had this very= conversation with Jim Galvin in the corridors after the meeting - man= dating elements is a policy decision.

The protocol= need to be flexible enough to permit registries to decide for themselves w= hat data is to be published.

This also needs to be= supported by the data formats.  If using XML / XSD, _every_ element n= eeds to be optional.  That may make it impossible to directly import E= PP-based schemas, which often have mandatory elements.

=
Ray




= --_000_B0E56CF08CD7448AB8F53F72B5E359D2nominetorguk_-- From fobispo@isc.org Tue Mar 27 12:55:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CB2E21E813C for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:55:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zeOgkXgPZhfD for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4CC721E80CE for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0C5AC9424; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:55:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:890f:9b81:c4a:b9d1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:890f:9b81:c4a:b9d1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC86B216C31; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:55:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 12:55:00 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <44A9A9CF-22FD-46E8-BF06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org> References: To: Ray Bellis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:55:11 -0000 I don't think the plan is to import EPP schemas. The spirit of = reutilization is to use the same identifiers where applicable, and/or = new ones where it makes the most sense. I'm not sure about making every element optional. But I do understand = the need to adapt the output to registry policy. Francisco On Mar 27, 2012, at 12:31 PM, Ray Bellis wrote: > This also needs to be supported by the data formats. If using XML / = XSD, _every_ element needs to be optional. That may make it impossible = to directly import EPP-based schemas, which often have mandatory = elements. >=20 Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Tue Mar 27 14:17:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3602E21E804B for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:17:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.382 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.382 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.216, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2gj9U2pO-SaA for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mx3.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B83421E8011 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:17:44 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: MIME-Version; b=nvF9ZF8+DklRr87aXj68oIBP/07EopgHMT0DAXbPQtyas09llagJw6+e AdQZy53brRn3FarZqusDf4ezixx5TLEATtWN0HinNXV7YS+V9p3sR8DPJ wSq4kWdTjioClmj; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1332883064; x=1364419064; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20New=20Version=20Notification =20for=0D=0A=20draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt |Date:=20Tue,=2027=20Mar=202012=2021:17:42=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20<11D010DE-1413-48A5-81AD-28B313808B7F@nomi net.org.uk>|To:=20Francisco=20Obispo=20 |CC:=20"weirds@ietf.org"=20 |MIME-Version:=201.0|In-Reply-To:=20<44A9A9CF-22FD-46E8-B F06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org>|References:=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20<44A9A9CF- 22FD-46E8-BF06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org>; bh=3LHcGfNMfRHIAV72CALUTtvFKv9rDI/Ud0ArGUssTYY=; b=JiYCUBbJEjKkORZlr8g4XFbFPAGOJGXQEbDrXIEwiEqL7kX1685jr6ui ig0mhUaww/IpNYIBMry0CmgO2YdkfegnzwOUGeMiIa3lMwYQW5qcexiuJ ZmFOKrFACU/Npsc; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,328,1330905600"; d="scan'208,217";a="39354201" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2012 22:17:43 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:17:42 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: Francisco Obispo Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHNDDIrT170MASbG06ubD3ctF3lOZZ+d1KAgAAGggCAABcbAA== Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:17:42 +0000 Message-ID: <11D010DE-1413-48A5-81AD-28B313808B7F@nominet.org.uk> References: <44A9A9CF-22FD-46E8-BF06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org> In-Reply-To: <44A9A9CF-22FD-46E8-BF06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_11D010DE141348A581AD28B313808B7Fnominetorguk_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:17:47 -0000 --_000_11D010DE141348A581AD28B313808B7Fnominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 27 Mar 2012, at 21:55, Francisco Obispo wrote: I don't think the plan is to import EPP schemas. The spirit of reutilizatio= n is to use the same identifiers where applicable, and/or new ones where it= makes the most sense. draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 says: --8<--8<-- The formal syntax presented here is a complete schema representation suitable for automated validation of an XML instance. It is based on the object schemas from the Extension Provisioning Protocol (EPP), by Scott Hollenbeck. It references and includes the following EPP schemas: [RFC5730] - Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) [RFC5731] - Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) Domain Name Mapping [RFC5732] - Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) Host Mag [RFC5733] - Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) Contact Mapping --8<--8<-- Does "include" not mean "import" in this context? I'm not sure about making every element optional. But I do understand the n= eed to adapt the output to registry policy. IMHO the only element we could mandate is the one that includes the "key" o= n which the search was just performed. That at least ensures that you know= the response you get is based on the query you sent. *Everything* else sh= ould be left to registry policy. Ray --_000_11D010DE141348A581AD28B313808B7Fnominetorguk_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 27 Mar 2012, at 21:5= 5, Francisco Obispo wrote:

I don't think the plan is to import EPP schemas= . The spirit of reutilization is to use the same identifiers where applicab= le, and/or new ones where it makes the most sense.

draft-sheng-weirds-icann-rws-dnrd-01 says:

--8<--8<--
The formal syntax pres=
ented here is a complete schema representation
suitable for automated validation of an XML instance.  It is based on
the object schemas from the Extension Provisioning Protocol (EPP), by
Scott Hollenbeck.  It references and includes the following EPP
schemas:

  [RFC5730] - Extensible Pro=
visioning Protocol (EPP)

  [RFC5731] - Extensible Pro=
visioning Protocol (EPP) Domain Name Mapping

  [RFC5732] - Extensible Pro=
visioning Protocol (EPP) Host Mag

  [RFC5733] - Extensible Pro=
visioning Protocol (EPP) Contact Mapping

--8= <--8<--

Does "include" not mean &q= uot;import" in this context?

I'm not sure about making every element optional. But I do unders= tand the need to adapt the output to registry policy.

IMHO the only element we could mandate is the one that incl= udes the "key" on which the search was just performed.  That= at least ensures that you know the response you get is based on the query = you sent.  *Everything* else should be left to registry policy.
<= div>
Ray

= --_000_11D010DE141348A581AD28B313808B7Fnominetorguk_-- From francisco.arias@icann.org Tue Mar 27 14:26:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABCA721E8088 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:26:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ou6-Q8uWl07X for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37AE521E801A for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:26:34 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Ray Bellis Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:26:22 -0700 Thread-Topic: Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) Thread-Index: Ac0MYEi9EdmmkNR4TNCtmKDSiAajUQ== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <11D010DE-1413-48A5-81AD-28B313808B7F@nominet.org.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:26:35 -0000 On 3/27/12 11:17 PM, "Ray Bellis" wrote: >IMHO the only element we could mandate is the one that includes the "key" >on which the search was just performed. That at least ensures that you >know the response you get is based on the query you sent. *Everything* >else should be left to registry policy. I appreciate the potential issue of having mandatory elements on the data model for any type of registry (e.g., names or numbers) in the protocol spec. On the other hand, I would think the data consumers would benefit of having a data model (specified by the appropriate/relevant policy maker) that clearly identifies which fields must be present and which are optional for an specific registry (e.g., .com, ARIN, .cn). How do we reconcile the two issues? __ Francisco. From fobispo@isc.org Tue Mar 27 14:29:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA6921E80E3 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:29:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 485MVPZ-9hvP for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.pao1.isc.org (mx.pao1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:2::2b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 933B421E80E0 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.pao1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8D11C9428; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:28:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:890f:9b81:c4a:b9d1] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:890f:9b81:c4a:b9d1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC6C3216C33; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:28:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <11D010DE-1413-48A5-81AD-28B313808B7F@nominet.org.uk> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:28:53 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1D626867-32A3-4205-9C5F-0EDFB1F95885@isc.org> References: <44A9A9CF-22FD-46E8-BF06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org> <11D010DE-1413-48A5-81AD-28B313808B7F@nominet.org.uk> To: Ray Bellis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:29:16 -0000 Hi Ray, The intent is to use the existing schemas as the starting point, not for = the final product: It is based on the object schemas from the=20 Extension Provisioning Protocol (EPP), by Scott Hollenbeck. It references and includes=20 the following EPP schemas: The text might need to be revised to make it clearer, but we can't use = the EPP schema directly because there is functionality that does not = apply for a whois query, as well as functionality needed by a whois = service that is not included in the EPP schemas. Francisco On Mar 27, 2012, at 2:17 PM, Ray Bellis wrote: > Does "include" not mean "import" in this context? >=20 >> I'm not sure about making every element optional. But I do understand = the need to adapt the output to registry policy. >=20 > IMHO the only element we could mandate is the one that includes the = "key" on which the search was just performed. That at least ensures = that you know the response you get is based on the query you sent. = *Everything* else should be left to registry policy. >=20 > Ray Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk Tue Mar 27 15:08:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0AA21E8126 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:08:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.386 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.386 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.213, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yXDh9gSFFwaT for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.nominet.org.uk (mail.nominet.org.uk [213.248.199.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A34F21F85C6 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:08:22 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: s=main.dk.nominet.selector; d=nominet.org.uk; c=nofws; q=dns; h=X-IronPort-AV:Received:Received:From:To:CC:Subject: Thread-Topic:Thread-Index:Date:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Accept-Language:Content-Language: X-MS-Has-Attach:X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:Content-Type: Content-ID:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; b=FHQE7/s9KGDjiJzw06gMv6mr0G7y9fhBJAwrcKkXoRpduqMbYJoEqRIe 68B0ooaUah2FJUljApMgvFBUiKt21MXUWVZw5pUBXqKZfXfPJcOykW1ih EBgILob8Akv/Ko8; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nominet.org.uk; i=Ray.Bellis@nominet.org.uk; q=dns/txt; s=main.dkim.nominet.selector; t=1332886102; x=1364422102; h=from:sender:reply-to:subject:date:message-id:to:cc: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:content-id: content-description:resent-date:resent-from:resent-sender: resent-to:resent-cc:resent-message-id:in-reply-to: references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:list-owner:list-archive; z=From:=20Ray=20Bellis=20 |Subject:=20Re:=20Mandatory=20vs.=20optional=20elements =20(was=20Re:=20[weirds]=20New=20Version=0D=0A=20Notifica tion=20for=20draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) |Date:=20Tue,=2027=20Mar=202012=2022:08:20=20+0000 |Message-ID:=20<032D58A3-BEAB-403A-AE1C-6541FF71B60E@nomi net.org.uk>|To:=20Francisco=20Arias=20|CC:=20"weirds@ietf.org"=20 |MIME-Version:=201.0|Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20quoted- printable|Content-ID:=20<39d44e4d-a902-4e0c-b2a1-38c26aa5 5226>|In-Reply-To:=20|References:=20; bh=ZIYSSg+hWUfuf1dxAvb5VUZrBAihB0UBL+cb8xnSCow=; b=m9YjDZSJl+P0kOvWJmDdcVU3EhdqE35+QWgqmUQut8Q0vGCplGqtmTsB uOQzyl9LC+0dpqk05QqAsOEAKxmuWpxWU7OZwJzWGusIgM62JPWezgHEH A4MKnzECYJfWNIG; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,328,1330905600"; d="scan'208";a="39354454" Received: from wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([213.248.197.144]) by mx3.nominet.org.uk with ESMTP; 27 Mar 2012 23:08:21 +0100 Received: from WDS-EXC2.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::7577:eaca:5241:25d4]) by wds-exc1.okna.nominet.org.uk ([fe80::1593:1394:a91f:8f5f%19]) with mapi; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:08:20 +0100 From: Ray Bellis To: Francisco Arias Thread-Topic: Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) Thread-Index: AQHNDGBKV1ZLglc1mEuuvaavbd/XwZZ+orgA Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:08:20 +0000 Message-ID: <032D58A3-BEAB-403A-AE1C-6541FF71B60E@nominet.org.uk> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <39d44e4d-a902-4e0c-b2a1-38c26aa55226> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:08:23 -0000 On 27 Mar 2012, at 23:26, Francisco Arias wrote: > I appreciate the potential issue of having mandatory elements on the data > model for any type of registry (e.g., names or numbers) in the protocol > spec. Great :) > On the other hand, I would think the data consumers would benefit of > having a data model (specified by the appropriate/relevant policy maker) > that clearly identifies which fields must be present and which are > optional for an specific registry (e.g., .com, ARIN, .cn). Can you elaborate on that? There's a world of difference between the complicated data models needed to= register a resource and those used to display or gather information about = resources. If you want to register a resource, it matters if you miss out information = that's required by the registry. However I actually don't think there is a benefit to data consumers of havi= ng a defined policy for mandatory vs optional fields. The data is either t= here, or it's not. Their client will need to interoperate with other regis= tries that'll have different policies, and it'll just have to cope. For display applications, you just omit the blank fields. If on the other = hand you're collecting lots of responses into a database the only differenc= e it makes is whether the local schema needs a "NOT NULL" qualifier for tha= t field, and in any event that would only be needed for mandatory fields. > How do we reconcile the two issues? By all means ICANN could have a policy document (which could be an RFC) tha= t specifies as a matter of _policy_ all of the fields that all ICANN accred= ited registries (and registrars, in the thin model) MUST output. I don't think that document should be a work item of this group, though. Ray From francisco.arias@icann.org Tue Mar 27 15:25:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFEE621E8128 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:25:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5NpiJPIBmmFa for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F98521E8011 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:25:50 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Ray Bellis Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:25:07 -0700 Thread-Topic: Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) Thread-Index: Ac0MaJBJIfgC9ERkQdKTFzLWdjZCbA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <032D58A3-BEAB-403A-AE1C-6541FF71B60E@nominet.org.uk> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:25:52 -0000 On 3/28/12 12:08 AM, "Ray Bellis" wrote: > >>On the other hand, I would think the data consumers would benefit of >> having a data model (specified by the appropriate/relevant policy maker) >> that clearly identifies which fields must be present and which are >> optional for an specific registry (e.g., .com, ARIN, .cn). > >Can you elaborate on that? > >There's a world of difference between the complicated data models needed >to register a resource and those used to display or gather information >about resources. > >If you want to register a resource, it matters if you miss out >information that's required by the registry. > >However I actually don't think there is a benefit to data consumers of >having a defined policy for mandatory vs optional fields. The data is >either there, or it's not. Their client will need to interoperate with >other registries that'll have different policies, and it'll just have to >cope. > >For display applications, you just omit the blank fields. If on the >other hand you're collecting lots of responses into a database the only >difference it makes is whether the local schema needs a "NOT NULL" >qualifier for that field, and in any event that would only be needed for >mandatory fields. Right, perhaps I should have asked, is this something of interest for data consumers? >> How do we reconcile the two issues? > > >By all means ICANN could have a policy document (which could be an RFC) >that specifies as a matter of _policy_ all of the fields that all ICANN >accredited registries (and registrars, in the thin model) MUST output. > >I don't think that document should be a work item of this group, though. Of course not, I wasn't suggesting that. Actually, perhaps the contracts would be the easiest vehicle for this. What I was hoping to hear is what technical mechanisms could we use if we wanted to do this. But I guess we first need to know if the idea is of interest for data consumers. __ Francisco. From aservin@lacnic.net Wed Mar 28 00:14:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A0821E8147 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:14:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mRhVKbDBNLQn for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB40721E8019 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:14:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:df8::16:4184:1ca4:331d:e9d8] (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:16:4184:1ca4:331d:e9d8]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A5930844C; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 04:14:35 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <1D626867-32A3-4205-9C5F-0EDFB1F95885@isc.org> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:14:34 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <44A9A9CF-22FD-46E8-BF06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org> <11D010DE-1413-48A5-81AD-28B313808B7F@nominet.org.uk> <1D626867-32A3-4205-9C5F-0EDFB1F95885@isc.org> To: Francisco Obispo X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:14:53 -0000 Why we first forget about XML vs JSON and instead of defining an = XML schema we start by defining a data model? Then, we decide how to = port it to any output format. Regards, .as On 27 Mar 2012, at 23:28, Francisco Obispo wrote: > Hi Ray, >=20 > The intent is to use the existing schemas as the starting point, not = for the final product: >=20 > It is based on the object schemas from the=20 > Extension Provisioning Protocol (EPP), by > Scott Hollenbeck. It references and includes=20 > the following EPP schemas: >=20 > The text might need to be revised to make it clearer, but we can't use = the EPP schema directly because there is functionality that does not = apply for a whois query, as well as functionality needed by a whois = service that is not included in the EPP schemas. >=20 > Francisco >=20 >=20 > On Mar 27, 2012, at 2:17 PM, Ray Bellis wrote: >=20 >> Does "include" not mean "import" in this context? >>=20 >>> I'm not sure about making every element optional. But I do = understand the need to adapt the output to registry policy. >>=20 >> IMHO the only element we could mandate is the one that includes the = "key" on which the search was just performed. That at least ensures = that you know the response you get is based on the query you sent. = *Everything* else should be left to registry policy. >>=20 >> Ray >=20 > Francisco Obispo=20 > email: fobispo@isc.org > Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC > PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From aservin@lacnic.net Wed Mar 28 00:23:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A143221E8159 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:23:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ofuKHc7vVth1 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:23:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF0221E8143 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 85-7-200.lacnic.net.uy (unknown [200.7.85.78]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F6030846E; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 04:23:24 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:23:19 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Francisco Arias , Ray Bellis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:23:36 -0000 Agree with Ray. It is important to have a data model but all fields could be = optional. It is up the RESTwhois operator to decide which objects of the = data model it wants to support (perhaps by policy.) I am working in an API (but I am very slow in writing code) and = I do not have a problem with optional objects (in fact, in = draft-newton-et-al-weirds-rir-json-response-01 all of there are) but it = is important to have a data model to know what to expect if it is there. Regards, .as On 28 Mar 2012, at 00:25, Francisco Arias wrote: > On 3/28/12 12:08 AM, "Ray Bellis" wrote: >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>> On the other hand, I would think the data consumers would benefit of >>> having a data model (specified by the appropriate/relevant policy = maker) >>> that clearly identifies which fields must be present and which are >>> optional for an specific registry (e.g., .com, ARIN, .cn). >>=20 >> Can you elaborate on that? >>=20 >> There's a world of difference between the complicated data models = needed >> to register a resource and those used to display or gather = information >> about resources. >>=20 >> If you want to register a resource, it matters if you miss out >> information that's required by the registry. >>=20 >> However I actually don't think there is a benefit to data consumers = of >> having a defined policy for mandatory vs optional fields. The data = is >> either there, or it's not. Their client will need to interoperate = with >> other registries that'll have different policies, and it'll just have = to >> cope. >>=20 >> For display applications, you just omit the blank fields. If on the >> other hand you're collecting lots of responses into a database the = only >> difference it makes is whether the local schema needs a "NOT NULL" >> qualifier for that field, and in any event that would only be needed = for >> mandatory fields. >=20 > Right, perhaps I should have asked, is this something of interest for = data > consumers? >=20 >>> How do we reconcile the two issues? >>=20 >>=20 >> By all means ICANN could have a policy document (which could be an = RFC) >> that specifies as a matter of _policy_ all of the fields that all = ICANN >> accredited registries (and registrars, in the thin model) MUST = output. >>=20 >> I don't think that document should be a work item of this group, = though. >=20 > Of course not, I wasn't suggesting that. Actually, perhaps the = contracts > would be the easiest vehicle for this. >=20 > What I was hoping to hear is what technical mechanisms could we use if = we > wanted to do this. But I guess we first need to know if the idea is of > interest for data consumers. >=20 > __ >=20 > Francisco. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Mar 28 00:56:22 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9873F21F893B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:56:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.561 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fejUt-ncRo4t for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og116.obsmtp.com (exprod6og116.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A22221F891E for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:56:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob116.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT3LEIZ3PLPDvT5uz0PfCpGOqcQvw50vL@postini.com; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 00:56:20 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2S7uD5x029987 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:56:16 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.205]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:56:13 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:56:12 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Deployment Commitments Thread-Index: Ac0MuDxX2i0Sw8J9SsitnoFzYQPpTw== Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:56:11 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5D8A61@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-cr-puzzleid: {C5CEF5A3-B2F3-44A1-84B9-9EDEC26708DB} x-cr-hashedpuzzle: loE= AX2/ ApRA BGUO B0gt B48U B8Ba B+0O B/Zy CWfP CWri ChY3 GBc/ Hz8t Iv38 JTfF; 1; dwBlAGkAcgBkAHMAQABpAGUAdABmAC4AbwByAGcA; Sosha1_v1; 7; {C5CEF5A3-B2F3-44A1-84B9-9EDEC26708DB}; cwBoAG8AbABsAGUAbgBiAGUAYwBrAEAAdgBlAHIAaQBzAGkAZwBuAC4AYwBvAG0A; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:56:08 GMT;RABlAHAAbABvAHkAbQBlAG4AdAAgAEMAbwBtAG0AaQB0AG0AZQBuAHQAcwA= x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2012 07:56:13.0205 (UTC) FILETIME=[3EE0D450:01CD0CB8] Subject: [weirds] Deployment Commitments X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:56:22 -0000 As a follow-on to yesterday's in-room discussion about deployment, Verisign= 's commitment to participate in the effort to develop and deploy a Domain N= ame Registration Data Access Protocol as described in SAC 051 is described = in the .com registry agreement renewal proposal that was posted yesterday f= or public comment. The proposed agreement can be found here: http://www.icann.org/en/news/public-comment/com-renewal-27mar12-en.htm See appendix 5 for this text: "Registry Operator commits to participating in and supporting the work in t= he IETF to produce a Domain Name Registration Data Access Protocol [SAC 051= ]. Registry Operator shall implement the standard no later than 135 days af= ter it is requested by ICANN if: 1) the IETF produces a standard (i.e., it = is published, at least, as a Proposed Standard RFC as specified in RFC 2026= ); and 2) its implementation is commercially reasonable in the context of t= he overall operation of the registry." Scott From sm@resistor.net Wed Mar 28 01:20:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CBF621F8997 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:20:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.624 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.624 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.975, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dRxLgYd5qDHo for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6730621F88EB for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:20:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2S8KM5h000549 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:20:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1332922826; i=@resistor.net; bh=l6KOjEdeyhirpS7X2RgbkmWQePjFV19Yox2EvDosnNU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=Ju/KtjrgpaFxbKCvty5Ct3dfLoGckCDxThZXtI9Nw4PtyNhnyRMkDsIC5UN2KDDA4 ERXRbRNrJg/IdHDo0xqq46r5qcJQ+1Xu2rBSTHe/TaxzxNrPU1TAojt88E1pBbF9si S4tuMd/SKZ6mfJNBDk9WDrXvtnrEyplcBSyn7Gp4= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1332922826; i=@resistor.net; bh=l6KOjEdeyhirpS7X2RgbkmWQePjFV19Yox2EvDosnNU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=SgXVnVNV7iGWaZnr/041m6wWvXEfZRUuimJmtbkFDoNSjt5SXyRjSdjyPbhp9Hn+n jbKsPyVXse41CgA98Icdb8R7+sBGMF1pAdoVc3+8tpX/WP/ocv2LJWe40/JCR51e5M BsSN4vGCcPlbZdo9/b/V3K4XlY2jYSGXPhBcZkGg= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328003212.0ac81f88@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:12:20 -0700 To: weirds@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:20:35 -0000 At 00:23 28-03-2012, Arturo Servin wrote: > It is important to have a data model but all fields could > be optional. > > It is up the RESTwhois operator to decide which objects of > the data model it wants to support (perhaps by policy.) During the BoF yesterday, it was mentioned that the document which specifies the data (fields) provided could be published in a non-WG RFC. The groups of data providers might be as follows: (a) number registries (doable through common policy) (b) ICANN affiliated name registries (ICANN might be able to address that) (c) non-affiliated name registries (some ccTLDs might be able to get together) I assume that the users of the service do not care whether it is RESTful, JSON or XML. They would like the get the data in a standardized format so that they can send DMCA letters, automate decisions against domains, IP address ranges, use information as input for "trust" decisions. Would (a) to (c) be an unsolvable problem for stakeholders? Regards, -sm From sm@resistor.net Wed Mar 28 01:20:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B00A21F899B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:20:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NMQ-rIaL-+Za for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B5C21F8996 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2S8KM5j000549; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:20:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1332922830; i=@resistor.net; bh=K+LGWRFjhC4isgQmcznAyl8pneqap10KXpnLlGMOk5k=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=RdV05+2NDO0WqRcxHF8qq6OAjxWZPePeYWbzQdo6o1kGdVhNxn5sVhjgIRNyTuQ3b 7QHzxIpTwOkxXA/GjO2lEDh43CWPXgvhWsJ3GsH1fVd1JPJLjQmcV4XXJ3We+Z4EVL QFCtP++NchfqhGtMX2PPQ/nNAzoBrnq02QItWp/E= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1332922830; i=@resistor.net; bh=K+LGWRFjhC4isgQmcznAyl8pneqap10KXpnLlGMOk5k=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=pMTccxDb/Bm4M9kWaNScBJyNK8uA99Y8s7T1g1QqUIbnx7VZHqDlWfxJwUP8NmnG9 eT6qdla4Gewejpy9xnMqkB8lrD8x1vGNegzBAXdcryUKCRvN97EDIu6NjUhikPHvHe I4o/GAoHhVsqE7Y7Q4o4QZ0x6W30p0GIV+Y7lF0o= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328011257.0ac81cf8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:14:38 -0700 To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" From: SM In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5D8A61@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vco rp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5D8A61@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Deployment Commitments X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:20:35 -0000 Hi Scott, At 00:56 28-03-2012, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >produce a Domain Name Registration Data Access Protocol [SAC 051]. >Registry Operator shall implement the standard no later than 135 >days after it is requested by ICANN if: 1) the IETF produces a >standard (i.e., it is published, at least, as a Proposed Standard >RFC as specified in RFC 2026); and 2) its implementation is >commercially reasonable in the context of the overall operation of >the registry." That's much better than the "will be considered" mentioned during the BoF. Regards, -sm From msk@cloudmark.com Wed Mar 28 01:22:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6894F21F8770 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:22:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Zp+5h+rVJ+A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B0D21F8799 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-HTCAS901.corp.cloudmark.com (172.22.10.73) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com (172.22.10.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:22:10 -0700 Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2524:76b6:a865:539c%10]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:22:10 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) Thread-Index: AQHNDLuvrXrpb8/37Eyo9MgytNt245Z/XhIg Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:22:10 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BD285@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328003212.0ac81f88@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328003212.0ac81f88@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.129.23.154] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:22:13 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of SM > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:12 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New > Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) >=20 > During the BoF yesterday, it was mentioned that the document which > specifies the data (fields) provided could be published in a non-WG > RFC. [...] Hi SM, I don't remember the "non-WG RFC" part. Is there an advantage to doing it = outside the WG? -MSK From francisco.arias@icann.org Wed Mar 28 01:27:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED1A221F887F for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:27:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UQsyk8enR9VQ for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A4C021F8882 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:26:59 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: SM , Scott Hollenbeck Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:26:58 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Deployment Commitments Thread-Index: Ac0MvIrRKCsR3HwXSD2PgBRgFjbVOw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328011257.0ac81cf8@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Deployment Commitments X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:27:03 -0000 On 3/28/12 10:14 AM, "SM" wrote: >Hi Scott, >At 00:56 28-03-2012, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: >>produce a Domain Name Registration Data Access Protocol [SAC 051]. >>Registry Operator shall implement the standard no later than 135 >>days after it is requested by ICANN if: 1) the IETF produces a >>standard (i.e., it is published, at least, as a Proposed Standard >>RFC as specified in RFC 2026); and 2) its implementation is >>commercially reasonable in the context of the overall operation of >>the registry." > >That's much better than the "will be considered" mentioned during the BoF. Unfortunately, during the BOF details were being finalized so neither party could mention it yet. __ Francisco. From francisco.arias@icann.org Wed Mar 28 01:35:56 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE1D21F88BD for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:35:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DrObB0-F3re7 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org (expfe100-1.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4920B21F88B0 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:35:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.236]) with mapi; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:35:54 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: Arturo Servin Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:35:52 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt Thread-Index: Ac0MvcpUrkLuXpQKSRCsPOfuaiHDZQ== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:35:57 -0000 On 3/28/12 9:14 AM, "Arturo Servin" wrote: > > Why we first forget about XML vs JSON and instead of defining an XML >schema we start by defining a data model? Then, we decide how to port it >to any output format. It seems a sensible suggestion to me. __ Francisco. From sm@resistor.net Wed Mar 28 01:40:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5302921F88C0 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:40:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kyfnylsewK5J for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6071321F88B4 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2S8drdm008919; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:39:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1332923998; i=@resistor.net; bh=3KrtJPN/gkUqo5/K8BmGNq2oGV2f1sDNnSHf+hypa00=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=PfHkdD12nOgbvZskAnXHX3ZLpRNPRsZ4AJF7qBVZFaRl1Z+sir5RxrUVU9LSNnPPi aoOUypEwoI4B/kSJmQPIMo+ADh2OxP51bldziTAjXvjXt5MGW5R3oo+AfpklB3Px6F H0Yk4i7LoGDqOY79L11lSKwtYibzPuDrDRHsiePE= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1332923998; i=@resistor.net; bh=3KrtJPN/gkUqo5/K8BmGNq2oGV2f1sDNnSHf+hypa00=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=0PZhQBfPfeXVKt5OdqtOwSkY14oFYevIDDlwPJkNqpnGja50NI0jHK/rd/87XoeHf WbMOTN2vwSRRdNypT8uLsVATlR33N/T3bOqrvyeRFUyu8DRGWvFgDO8Unp29r1MEpQ rvN11gTxTc2H5LyLqTjAiac3sl6zyEHWMChOS1yo= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328012601.0c72c688@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:37:56 -0700 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" From: SM In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BD285@exch-mbx901.corp.cl oudmark.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328003212.0ac81f88@resistor.net> <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BD285@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:40:13 -0000 Hi Murray, At 01:22 28-03-2012, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: >I don't remember the "non-WG RFC" part. Is there an advantage to >doing it outside the WG? Pete (Applications Area Director) mentioned it as an option. The advantage of not having them as deliverables is that the group does not have to discuss whether it should or should not be in the charter or gating on policy decisions. That does not prevent the work from being discussed informally on the WG mailing list. The option does not affect the conditions mentioned in the message about deployment commitments ( http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/weirds/current/msg00854.html ). Regards, -sm From msk@cloudmark.com Wed Mar 28 01:45:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED74121F8891 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q9jky8gF4h+G for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8214421F864E for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-HTCAS901.corp.cloudmark.com (172.22.10.73) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com (172.22.10.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:36 -0700 Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::2524:76b6:a865:539c%10]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:36 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) Thread-Index: AQHNDL5iGRrLDqi/XkKtrZ66naN05JZ/ZHBg Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:45:35 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BD341@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328003212.0ac81f88@resistor.net> <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BD285@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20120328012601.0c72c688@resistor.net> In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328012601.0c72c688@resistor.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.129.23.154] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:45:38 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: SM [mailto:sm@resistor.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:38 AM > To: Murray S. Kucherawy > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New > Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) >=20 > Pete (Applications Area Director) mentioned it as an option. The > advantage of not having them as deliverables is that the group does not > have to discuss whether it should or should not be in the charter or > gating on policy decisions. That does not prevent the work from being > discussed informally on the WG mailing list. It seems from the discussion yesterday that people think the data elements = are pretty key to the output of this working group, so I expect they should= be on the milestones list. It's certainly possible to do this outside the WG, but personally it would = seem a strange approach to me given the need. -MSK From carlosm3011@gmail.com Wed Mar 28 01:45:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55AF21F8895 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.323, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y0Bc08yoTfXr for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com (mail-qa0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42D0121F864E for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qaea16 with SMTP id a16so667370qae.10 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=rkGvuPsZPWv5LrH9sKybx0cQpioqe1zvi9sx691jZUE=; b=OUZxETGOV27K167/eut58BhyTbzirrSLdu8CEjPqUc9xmERpMDAXCRJNQZPOFAKbCh 5/EHv54Sud+1pK3aQhWfMaUWFNoj+GMoH5Vj+dZGMagsDwQ6NLLxcsBMYPg33faoR9sa ikRRiDjEvvK13ujBZl978ghrPncVYls6gYTze+2RHedFGtUXvPY7OGZcvoksbeIoWbVq UGy9jKRgzcwCbTjc8eyOeJutpiDbDh4XX/1jkfsqWItznhzGuivPOJXv7c4Pi0nkfaI+ ZCXitrLw42aIlB7BcRHtSRhFvPQaOzQVaYm+JE/4i36y/SbZ+lzPZak8UAWm5jU5dwc+ QwNg== Received: by 10.229.137.6 with SMTP id u6mr11064965qct.112.1332924346625; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.193] (r186-53-82-152.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy. [186.53.82.152]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fq1sm5460697qab.10.2012.03.28.01.45.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 01:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Carlos M. Martinez" In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 05:46:06 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <44A9A9CF-22FD-46E8-BF06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org> <11D010DE-1413-48A5-81AD-28B313808B7F@nominet.org.uk> <1D626867-32A3-4205-9C5F-0EDFB1F95885@isc.org> To: Arturo Servin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:45:48 -0000 +1 On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:14 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: >=20 > Why we first forget about XML vs JSON and instead of defining an = XML schema we start by defining a data model? Then, we decide how to = port it to any output format. >=20 > Regards, > .as >=20 >=20 > On 27 Mar 2012, at 23:28, Francisco Obispo wrote: >=20 >> Hi Ray, >>=20 >> The intent is to use the existing schemas as the starting point, not = for the final product: >>=20 >> It is based on the object schemas from the=20 >> Extension Provisioning Protocol (EPP), by >> Scott Hollenbeck. It references and includes=20 >> the following EPP schemas: >>=20 >> The text might need to be revised to make it clearer, but we can't = use the EPP schema directly because there is functionality that does not = apply for a whois query, as well as functionality needed by a whois = service that is not included in the EPP schemas. >>=20 >> Francisco >>=20 >>=20 >> On Mar 27, 2012, at 2:17 PM, Ray Bellis wrote: >>=20 >>> Does "include" not mean "import" in this context? >>>=20 >>>> I'm not sure about making every element optional. But I do = understand the need to adapt the output to registry policy. >>>=20 >>> IMHO the only element we could mandate is the one that includes the = "key" on which the search was just performed. That at least ensures = that you know the response you get is based on the query you sent. = *Everything* else should be left to registry policy. >>>=20 >>> Ray >>=20 >> Francisco Obispo=20 >> email: fobispo@isc.org >> Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC >> PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From francisco.arias@icann.org Wed Mar 28 02:00:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D9D21F89B2 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:00:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uKcimINp7xyi for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FAB521F89AF for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:00:37 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:00:35 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) Thread-Index: Ac0MwT3YAyR+gFkuRhScZMs74hgDjw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BD341@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:00:39 -0000 On 3/28/12 10:45 AM, "Murray S. Kucherawy" wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: SM [mailto:sm@resistor.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:38 AM >> To: Murray S. Kucherawy >> Cc: weirds@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New >> Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) >>=20 >> Pete (Applications Area Director) mentioned it as an option. The >> advantage of not having them as deliverables is that the group does not >> have to discuss whether it should or should not be in the charter or >> gating on policy decisions. That does not prevent the work from being >> discussed informally on the WG mailing list. > >It seems from the discussion yesterday that people think the data >elements are pretty key to the output of this working group, so I expect >they should be on the milestones list. > >It's certainly possible to do this outside the WG, but personally it >would seem a strange approach to me given the need. That's why I was asking whether the data consumers think some sort of data model is needed. But keep in mind that all the protocol can do is define a standardized name and definition for a list of fields (perhaps the most common fields). Which fields are served, it's a policy decision on each registry (.br, LACNIC, .tel, etc.). The protocol cannot define which fields are mandatory. __ Francisco. From msk@cloudmark.com Wed Mar 28 02:01:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE9021F89B7 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:01:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.592 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.592 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zF4m1xhQ4iqb for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEE2521F89B3 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::e82a:4f80:7f44:eaf7%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:01:58 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) Thread-Index: AQHNDMFMpKHYcKXSKUyMNF7peMeugJZ/aTtQ Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:01:57 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BD41C@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BD341@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.129.23.154] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:01:59 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Arias [mailto:francisco.arias@icann.org] > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 2:01 AM > To: Murray S. Kucherawy; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New > Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) >=20 > That's why I was asking whether the data consumers think some sort of > data model is needed. But keep in mind that all the protocol can do is > define a standardized name and definition for a list of fields (perhaps > the most common fields). Which fields are served, it's a policy > decision on each registry (.br, LACNIC, .tel, etc.). The protocol > cannot define which fields are mandatory. I'm fine with that compromise. -MSK From sm@resistor.net Wed Mar 28 02:28:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3446721F885B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:28:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.631 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Erkc9Hjw4X9G for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C1B21F882C for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:28:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2S9NDsA002020; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:23:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1332926598; i=@resistor.net; bh=7nF0QqrAjyKpPPgjK1RsMolPqNtt3M10R7+hGciuhWM=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=HLeXzD68W57/I+NTZbeiUNgsNHrSOIdclM5BMDRj83tSA1yb1VQasRHZyYBOIVBO2 zsYJwiecWTv5e8vhsxAxz5+GCnjLgck58Dp5ERpdYnyVDNoRbdEMaTapNTSTPNN6nX a99tm7NNjeaEWPEWO6+U3+LqwdfB6It7mp3D+Rrc= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1332926598; i=@resistor.net; bh=7nF0QqrAjyKpPPgjK1RsMolPqNtt3M10R7+hGciuhWM=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=4TPVG5ATv0Ww9GsgBEE+BKsfsQfjY32ekm7wn10gy2F1Y/3dcM/OblNwOXUEjBjAM juZwk14puPC31/kyibATjqNs1wIDrmQMqiTEPjrFoR1F7eSESgb1o5f6Nx/eZbPej7 J4MhYa+D98YXJhFEON15rTFIUHuZIkgVZh8JTUjc= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120328021717.0c2428c0@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:20:39 -0700 To: Francisco Arias From: SM In-Reply-To: References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280BD341@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:28:17 -0000 Hi Francisco, At 02:00 28-03-2012, Francisco Arias wrote: >common fields). Which fields are served, it's a policy decision on each >registry (.br, LACNIC, .tel, etc.). The protocol cannot define which >fields are mandatory. My previous message on this thread was about which fields are served. Regards, -sm From fneves@registro.br Wed Mar 28 03:01:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5359F21F8A02 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:01:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.48 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.48 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BKcNd0Ur8wdo for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BBE221F8A00 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F1AC2E044D; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:00:58 -0300 (BRT) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:00:58 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: James Mitchell Message-ID: <20120328100058.GB26343@registro.br> References: <9434638A-EC72-4035-8B58-663DCAA61EAB@lacnic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:01:01 -0000 On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 02:56:18AM +1100, James Mitchell wrote: ... > +The requirements document should not prescribe mandatory data elements. > I'm going to go further and say that, at least in the names documents, all > data elements are optional to reduce barriers to adoption for all name > registries. This group may decide that certain elements are recommended, > for example the creation date/time for the benefit of automated spam > detection/filtering tools etc, however this is as far as it should go. > > As an example, and with hope that this does not turn into a discussion > regarding specific registry policies, consider the response to a .com.au > whois where the creation and expiration dates are withheld as a means to > reduce frequency of fake renewal notices (registrations are for a fixed 2 > year period). By mandating the creation date/time element you will force > their hand to either 1, not implement the product of this group, 2, create > a similar but incompatible response format, or 3, change their policy. I > don't think this group should gamble on 3. Agree. It's definitely undesirable to see aberrations as rewrites of information only for the purpose of obscuring mandatory fields on mandated by policy protected information or unavailable data. > Regards > > James Fred From fneves@registro.br Wed Mar 28 03:20:38 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6446A21F8A2D for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:20:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.492 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.492 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cwPNELR6iAfb for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C35E021F8A23 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 245FFE04AF; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:20:37 -0300 (BRT) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:20:37 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: Ray Bellis Message-ID: <20120328102037.GC26343@registro.br> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:20:38 -0000 Ray, On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 07:31:43PM +0000, Ray Bellis wrote: ... > > This also needs to be supported by the data formats. If using XML / XSD, _every_ element needs to be optional. That may make it impossible to directly import EPP-based schemas, which often have mandatory elements. > Just to be clear when I mentioned the EPP extensions LACNIC is using for the purpose of provisioning ASs and Addresses Blocks among RIR/NIR/ISPs this was to make the point that the numbers and names registries do share social data objects and it's possible to provide services for both registries using a single protocol. It was not my intention to meant the use of their XML elements as an option for the data format. For the record these are the last documents describing these extensions. ftp://ftp.registro.br/pub/libepp-nicbr/draft-neves-epp-asn-02.txt ftp://ftp.registro.br/pub/libepp-nicbr/draft-neves-epp-ipnetwork-02.txt > Ray Fred From vesely@tana.it Wed Mar 28 03:21:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDE0121F8A2D for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:21:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.719 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.719 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OYYPCo5BSOGn for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:21:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (mail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8181C21F8A23 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:21:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=test; t=1332930067; bh=NVCBppLehWkQWKJfpFCeNff1reuYoXm4itctWCqUP/o=; l=282; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:References:In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=LyOrsX8XhZv6qJCpgt/VlWkR++VGfsxmbGQgFaL4BYRd8Nxw3P5U/m2rzpejFO9hZ 8rtKmEEKBbrX/6yg77bJEBr/GGZKn3DfDPljTZ/0wka6WXyVyn7H9MGFoaondBu5sx 1KdXpcEOKBFMsOmpiW5UKSQX8Cd0kzI175vprp2I= Received: from [10.216.6.120] ([93.158.42.127]) (AUTH: PLAIN 515, TLS: TLS1.0,256bits,RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPSA; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 12:21:03 +0200 id 00000000005DC03F.000000004F72E611.00004B92 Message-ID: <4F72E607.7050608@tana.it> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 12:20:55 +0200 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120312 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <44A9A9CF-22FD-46E8-BF06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org> <11D010DE-1413-48A5-81AD-28B313808B7F@nominet.org.uk> <1D626867-32A3-4205-9C5F-0EDFB1F95885@isc.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 10:21:12 -0000 On Wed 28/Mar/2012 12:16:20 +0200 Arturo Servin wrote: > > Why we first forget about XML vs JSON and instead of defining an XML > schema we start by defining a data model? Then, we decide how to port it > to any output format. +1, traditional text templates would be great! From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 28 05:24:02 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F1E21E818B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 05:24:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.646 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.646 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.553, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dU3AkJLvWok1 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 05:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B4F21E8196 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 05:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 76575 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2012 12:23:59 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2012 12:23:59 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:vbr-info; s=4f7302de.xn--btvx9d.k1203; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=W60Gkqv9WWwj/mYuqX1j8XIepgOxMQj7/dBvoYbQU+w=; b=jx0NyUp1A49FtAL1d3p7WA7i+wxV5277Wj/vyAic3X4vZBr+7XxxSRs2DffHdV25kBbLXIzjn7Rv1Hefrgh10NmdvR1Uz7RlkJv2Vvx6hwGcCu/Vy3BLixjOzC4jUy4DMgBmDJcxqTbr9zHu3HrhREs4jw7edL8FfmWou0Yir9Y= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Date: 28 Mar 2012 12:23:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20120328122336.64154.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 12:24:03 -0000 >That's why I was asking whether the data consumers think some sort of data >model is needed. But keep in mind that all the protocol can do is define a >standardized name and definition for a list of fields (perhaps the most >common fields). Which fields are served, it's a policy decision on each >registry (.br, LACNIC, .tel, etc.). The protocol cannot define which >fields are mandatory. It's fine if not all the fields are present or filled in, but I need to know what the fields are and what they're supposed to contain. The key for me is to be able to parse the responses automatically and reliably. R's, John From james.mitchell@ausregistry.com.au Wed Mar 28 07:39:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 328C121E818A for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:39:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.82 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.82 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XFeDe3HKgj4D for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.ausregistry.net.au (mx01.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7046921E813B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron01.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2012 01:39:27 +1100 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 01:39:12 +1100 From: James Mitchell To: John Levine Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 01:39:24 +1100 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) Thread-Index: Ac0M8Iop5BwEF0GuSGmE+008gHdtXQ== Message-ID: References: <20120328122336.64154.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120328122336.64154.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:39:32 -0000 Agree that a common data model should be defined for (EPP-based) name regis= tries to avoid variation in core fields. I assume in this case the EPP RFCs= plus published extensions would provide a good starting point. Note that I= am using the term EPP as being the domain, host and contact object extensi= ons defined in RFCs 5731-5733 and not the Extensible protocol :) On 28/03/2012, at 11:23 PM, "John Levine" wrote: >> That's why I was asking whether the data consumers think some sort of da= ta >> model is needed. But keep in mind that all the protocol can do is define= a >> standardized name and definition for a list of fields (perhaps the most >> common fields). Which fields are served, it's a policy decision on each >> registry (.br, LACNIC, .tel, etc.). The protocol cannot define which >> fields are mandatory. >=20 > It's fine if not all the fields are present or filled in, but I need > to know what the fields are and what they're supposed to contain. >=20 > The key for me is to be able to parse the responses automatically and > reliably. >=20 > R's, > John > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From johnl@iecc.com Wed Mar 28 07:47:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C7E421E821C for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:47:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6B-2Ot8poFqk for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 155DA21E812F for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 07:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6237 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2012 14:47:15 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:vbr-info:user-agent:cleverness; s=185c.4f732473.k1203; bh=M4WYP5B08XrnED5u742E4urJfNeIItFsPEWUyuZJpMc=; b=a82c8LVS4uPoZRNIi4GspXC+QbgdXWg3hzPKSjjwCkLftesmKkthPqCwaF3zFEEc6itnhFouRj8sgwgCjd2mEKomlXcmbgegboOLuACSrhu19F+MHnE5fVynZoZ8ZluuswZ0aAAgQOc3L5KWcq4D2+1qgdcvWRg4HDO9YOvhHj4= VBR-Info: md=iecc.com; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 28 Mar 2012 14:46:53 -0000 Date: 28 Mar 2012 16:47:13 +0200 Message-ID: From: "John R. Levine" To: "James Mitchell" In-Reply-To: References: <20120328122336.64154.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:47:19 -0000 > Agree that a common data model should be defined for (EPP-based) name > registries to avoid variation in core fields. This whole exercise is pointless without a data model that a client can use to parse the responses that it gets to its queries. It's OK if there is a small number of models, e.g., one for numbers and one for names, but it better not be one for each of the 900 registrars. > I assume in this case the EPP RFCs plus published extensions would > provide a good starting point. The ICANN registry agreements for thick registries specify what's supposed to be in WHOIS responses, and they're all pretty much the same. I'd suggest starting with them, since that's data the gTLD and sTLD registries should already be able to provide. >> The key for me is to be able to parse the responses automatically and >> reliably. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From james.mitchell@ausregistry.com.au Wed Mar 28 08:25:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B363021E80AC for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:25:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.831 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.831 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3AaN5zHXYxoV for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [202.65.15.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B172321E8158 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2012 02:25:22 +1100 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:25:07 +1100 From: James Mitchell To: "John R. Levine" Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:25:23 +1100 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) Thread-Index: Ac0M9vSMwDrZ1MEHRDmpWhu+n5TCUA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:25:26 -0000 On 29/03/12 1:47 AM, "John R. Levine" wrote: >> Agree that a common data model should be defined for (EPP-based) name >> registries to avoid variation in core fields. > >This whole exercise is pointless without a data model that a client can >use to parse the responses that it gets to its queries. It's OK if >there is a small number of models, e.g., one for numbers and one for >names, but it better not be one for each of the 900 registrars. Agree. > >> I assume in this case the EPP RFCs plus published extensions would >> provide a good starting point. > >The ICANN registry agreements for thick registries specify what's >supposed=20 >to be in WHOIS responses, and they're all pretty much the same. I'd >suggest starting with them, since that's data the gTLD and sTLD >registries=20 >should already be able to provide. Fine with me. > >>> The key for me is to be able to parse the responses automatically and >>> reliably. > >Regards, >John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for >Dummies", >Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From AMaitland@Commerco.Com Wed Mar 28 08:31:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4977521E826B for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:31:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ltD9AskZKa44 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MS1.MailSys.Net (MS1.MailSys.Net [66.135.47.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6394021E8180 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:31:47 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=mailsys; d=Commerco.Com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-fromip:x-fromcountry; b=Y9XfVE+9DV4704yMU8EHocKSXD2bv4dmJjK9zWmHPudlu0DDaXYH1lqd0EGeIuHeZ6nrdliuYzN6wVHO5+r1kwokvlihSItYL6y2zLeXUamnv8m8d7sQ0jNedE/80nbvnpu0Urzr7N0ia0iaA9fUxAlDKcbetjtiszEnaU56np8= Received: from [71.216.84.59] by MS1.MailSys.Net (ArGoSoft Mail Server .NET v.1.0.8.3) with ESMTP (EHLO [10.240.241.49]) for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:31:46 +0000 Message-ID: <4F732EDB.7040409@Commerco.Com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 09:31:39 -0600 From: Alan Maitland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <44A9A9CF-22FD-46E8-BF06-9F2E09875E61@isc.org> <11D010DE-1413-48A5-81AD-28B313808B7F@nominet.org.uk> <1D626867-32A3-4205-9C5F-0EDFB1F95885@isc.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-FromIP: 71.216.84.59 X-FromCountry: US Subject: Re: [weirds] New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:31:48 -0000 On 3/28/2012 1:14 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: > > Why we first forget about XML vs JSON and instead of defining an XML schema we start by defining a data model? Then, we decide how to port it to any output format. > > Regards, > .as > > Agree. It might be useful to be able to request a given desired format as part of the protocol. Perhaps initially implemented with some established protocols in place (e.g., XML, plain text, flavors of csv, etc) and the ability to request supported protocols, thus allowing future additions without breaking the current implementations. As to data fields, perhaps a mechanism to list supported fields and basic information (e.g., numeric, text, size, etc) for a given implementation would be useful, along with a baseline set of data fields that all implementations would offer. Arguably, there could be some authorization scheme to allow for levels of data access. In other words, some data would be universal, while some other data may be accessible within and / or between the registries or other needs. Alan M. From andy@hxr.us Wed Mar 28 08:36:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F2921E8225 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:36:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P1661JsduQsT for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5182121E8180 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibhj6 with SMTP id hj6so5350913wib.13 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:36:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=rNSe7cwO8M+CA2kCKS6XLMnL/gkXR95KVl5HPra4tSQ=; b=jTRfr+s5CwM22rVufCfy0zAEIk97q/UjGm/KMEeCMR+gCh25Fort0Jh+qnKOn/eMwQ BVGA/5RySX0Obsv/ODLNjA09YHzUkM23aTa0GvJ5Fatbh/M6F9VD+oQHALXmChl2qngp w4anz9iUZFGfI13jSpdZvudwSdGE8shXD55LSxutjwnyK7NoOOT96cpx/behNv0ul4G5 OtUd3VyYekuAvxX+JT44Y3p0xhlc7Z1XL1zMKLv8xYztPhQrvWpt553mfgAWf70nnOGO 8ZZiEiYfwiuZWohqE4GMx/WDeNPyH8TLCg9sGGV8qP6WRbIz8x1/Q1f8QXbQtsakWo8b Muiw== Received: by 10.216.131.30 with SMTP id l30mr17219838wei.111.1332948971487; Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-4381.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-4381.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.67.129]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w10sm14703796wiy.3.2012.03.28.08.36.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:36:09 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:36:07 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: James Mitchell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkH0V89ZQaZ90KUwBxIj8O26lh76pxvD/LY6Em2xhM4K2cRJheIkK5AI8CnKytOCYBmfako Cc: "John R. Levine" , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:36:13 -0000 On Mar 28, 2012, at 5:25 PM, James Mitchell wrote: >> The ICANN registry agreements for thick registries specify what's >> supposed=20 >> to be in WHOIS responses, and they're all pretty much the same. I'd >> suggest starting with them, since that's data the gTLD and sTLD >> registries=20 >> should already be able to provide. >=20 > Fine with me. I've heard that an ICANN committee is working on the fields ICANN wishes = to see in this and they will be ready with their recommendations in the = June timeframe. I can't imagine it will be much different than what can = be found in the current agreements, so I think it would be sane to = proceed with John's suggestion until then. In the meantime, if there is an energetic individual wishing to make a = name for themselves, said person could look at Nominet and DeNIC and = some of the bigger ccTLDs and do a gap analysis to see what is still = needed. -andy= From fneves@registro.br Thu Mar 29 02:54:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B32EF21F896A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:54:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.090, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SwYI72DJfjBy for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E09EF21F8929 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 02:54:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 59E4BE04D0; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:53:59 -0300 (BRT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:53:59 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: "weirds@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20120329095359.GA2719@registro.br> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:54:01 -0000 On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 05:36:07PM +0200, Andy Newton wrote: ... > > In the meantime, if there is an energetic individual wishing to make > a name for themselves, said person could look at Nominet and DeNIC > and some of the bigger ccTLDs and do a gap analysis to see what is > still needed. To kick start the process Ray Bellis and I worked for a while on this, hopefully more will come. http://goo.gl/uYTZw Errors and misinterpretations are just mine :-) > -andy Fred From aservin@lacnic.net Thu Mar 29 03:19:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 522F521F89B9 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:19:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HlAxOOuHaAgl for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93A0021F89A4 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1390.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1390.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.19.144]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id A22C4308446; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:19:33 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <20120329095359.GA2719@registro.br> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:19:30 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120329095359.GA2719@registro.br> To: Frederico A C Neves , Ray Bellis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:19:47 -0000 Fred, Ray I have the RIRs' tables comparing each data model if you wanted = to make cross check. We used that table for the model in our draft. =09 Regards, as =09 On 29 Mar 2012, at 11:53, Frederico A C Neves wrote: > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 05:36:07PM +0200, Andy Newton wrote: > ... >>=20 >> In the meantime, if there is an energetic individual wishing to make >> a name for themselves, said person could look at Nominet and DeNIC >> and some of the bigger ccTLDs and do a gap analysis to see what is >> still needed. >=20 > To kick start the process Ray Bellis and I worked for a while on this, > hopefully more will come. >=20 > http://goo.gl/uYTZw >=20 > Errors and misinterpretations are just mine :-) >=20 >> -andy >=20 > Fred > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From aservin@lacnic.net Thu Mar 29 03:26:29 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E4A21F89D9 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:26:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XJhDRpR3xLTb for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E7821F89BD for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 03:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-1390.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-1390.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.19.144]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20F530844E; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:26:18 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:26:16 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <92726E0B-BBD3-496B-A1E9-33415F8DDBB4@lacnic.net> References: <20120329095359.GA2719@registro.br> To: Frederico A C Neves , Ray Bellis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:26:30 -0000 Well, I was thinking that you may not need it anyway. The output = model is already in the draft. But if you want to take a look, just let me know. Regards. as On 29 Mar 2012, at 12:19, Arturo Servin wrote: > Fred, Ray >=20 > I have the RIRs' tables comparing each data model if you wanted = to make cross check. >=20 > We used that table for the model in our draft. >=20 > =09 > Regards, > as > =09 > On 29 Mar 2012, at 11:53, Frederico A C Neves wrote: >=20 >> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 05:36:07PM +0200, Andy Newton wrote: >> ... >>>=20 >>> In the meantime, if there is an energetic individual wishing to make >>> a name for themselves, said person could look at Nominet and DeNIC >>> and some of the bigger ccTLDs and do a gap analysis to see what is >>> still needed. >>=20 >> To kick start the process Ray Bellis and I worked for a while on = this, >> hopefully more will come. >>=20 >> http://goo.gl/uYTZw >>=20 >> Errors and misinterpretations are just mine :-) >>=20 >>> -andy >>=20 >> Fred >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 29 06:52:28 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06FBD21F8929 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:52:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.559 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d-smMI2jEgzf for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B464B21F8950 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2TAuv0K038786 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:56:57 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F746913.4080707@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:52:19 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20120328122336.64154.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Mandatory vs. optional elements (was Re: New Version Notification for draft-kucherawy-weirds-requirements-03.txt) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:52:28 -0000 On 3/28/12 10:47 AM, John R. Levine wrote: > > This whole exercise is pointless without a data model that a client > can use to parse the responses that it gets to its queries. well, pointless to some data consumers, not necessarily to all data producers. that i appreciate john's point may be more obvious in a subsequent note. > ... It's OK if > there is a small number of models, e.g., one for numbers and one for > names, but it better not be one for each of the 900 registrars. the risk of repeating the bazillions of registrars nonsense (over two thirds are registrar operated shells and if the drop pool access rule had allowed more threads/subnets at an equivalent price these might never have existed as iana id'd "registrars" at all) is present here. it is not likely that rsp backends are offering their tenent-clients freedom to create unbounded implementation cost, marketing overhead, and regulatory compliance risk. so if we could focus on the independent providers, e.g., vgrs is independent of afilias, etc., and not on their similar or identical (now or conjectural) instances of branded registry services, our number would be smaller, and correlate to actual variation. >> I assume in this case the EPP RFCs plus published extensions would provide a good starting point. > > The ICANN registry agreements for thick registries specify what's supposed to be in WHOIS responses, and they're all pretty much the same. I'd suggest starting with them, since that's data the gTLD and sTLD registries should already be able to provide. correct, for a general _class_ of registries, which may include some "other contractual registries" which are in fact tenent-clients of backend service providers which operate "icann contractual registries". so this is a useful starting point. -e From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 29 07:41:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500A821F884A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:41:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id btK9h++EsY4b for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 606C121F88C7 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2TBjXd4039006 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:45:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F747477.9030601@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:40:55 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "weirds@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [weirds] Data: MS v Zeus X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:41:06 -0000 colleagues, this morning i read the complaint and appendices, 162pp, of the 3/19 filing in the eastern district of new york. this may not be of interest to anyone other than myself, but imho there is some relevancy. there is a listing of "harmful domains" (with the interesting annotation of the service primitive the zeus botherder located at each). the summary numbers are: 1,703 domains in the .com zone (vgrs) 57 domains in the .in zone (afilias) 10 in the .asia zone (operator not identified as afilias) 334 in the .co zone (operator identified as neustar) 156 in the .biz zone (neustar) 355 in the .info zone (afilias) 165 in the .org zone (operator not identified as afilias) 433 in the .ru zone (operator identified as cc tld ru) 25 in the .tk zone (operator identified as dot tk ltd) 20 in the .tw zone (twnic) 12 in the .ua zone (operator identified as hostmaster) 6 in the .ms zone (operator identified as lubimal) 7 in the .li zone (switch) 8 in the .at zone (atnic) 4 in the .de zone (denic) 7 in the .eu zone (eurid) 2 in the .be zone (dns be) 12 in the .cn zone (neustar/cnnic) 6 in the .nl zone (sidn) 1 in the .ca zone (cira) 1 in the .la zone (operator la registry, london) 1 in the .mk zone (marnet) 1 in the .ru zone (runic) 1 in the .br zone (cgib) 1 in the .kz zone (kznic) 7 in the .ir zone (irnic) 2 in the .im zone (domicilium) 1 in the .it zone (regit) 1 in the .so zone (gmo) 2 in the .au zone (auda) 1 in the .al zone (akep) 1 in the .pl zone (nask) 1 in the .cx zone (cocca) 1 in the .ch zone (switch) i conclude from this instance of investigation into the zeus operator's art that reporting tools, not necessarily limited to those which show resource allocatee data, have greater utility when querying some resource allocators, that is, utility is not uniform. i also conclude that the zeus operator's choice of resources to consume reflects cost and/or complexity, that is, the allocation policy of a resource allocator is a good guide to the utility of an allocation reporting tool. assuming that 80% is a useful initial threshold for automatic vs manual processing of returns, in this sample set the 80% bogie would be met by the following four sources (in numerical order): .com, .ru, .info, and .co. having eyeballed the 3k names, it appears to me that a significant subset are strings which could not be mnemonic identifiers (other than for persons like my autistic son, for whom arbitrary strings of significant length are acquired, stored and recited trivially), similar to the generated strings used by the .C conficker variant when generating its universe of rendezvous points. there may be other correlates. -e From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu Mar 29 07:49:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A83C521E8137 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:49:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4VembVYBwz3D for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:49:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A771A21E8147 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (dhcp-21ac.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.33.172]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BDFC61ECB41F for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:49:02 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:49:03 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120329144902.GD20819@mail.yitter.info> References: <4F747477.9030601@abenaki.wabanaki.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F747477.9030601@abenaki.wabanaki.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Data: MS v Zeus X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:49:04 -0000 On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:40:55AM -0400, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: > each). the summary numbers are: [a list] > i conclude from this instance of investigation into the zeus > operator's art that reporting tools, not necessarily limited to those > which show resource allocatee data, have greater utility when querying > some resource allocators, that is, utility is not uniform. > Was this a conclusion that was supposed to have been supported by that list, or is it arrived at a different way? Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 29 08:32:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B1E21E820F for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:32:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iDzlPxM03NT9 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3FF21E813B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2TCaV0t039253 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:36:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F74806A.5030106@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:31:54 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4F747477.9030601@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <20120329144902.GD20819@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120329144902.GD20819@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Data: MS v Zeus X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:32:01 -0000 > Was this a conclusion that was supposed to have been supported by that > list, or is it arrived at a different way? (a). -e From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Thu Mar 29 09:23:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7A421F852D for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:23:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hWXsefcQGmpl for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE5521F8448 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (dhcp-21ac.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.33.172]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6C7981ECB420 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:23:00 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:23:01 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120329162300.GC20945@mail.yitter.info> References: <4F747477.9030601@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <20120329144902.GD20819@mail.yitter.info> <4F74806A.5030106@abenaki.wabanaki.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4F74806A.5030106@abenaki.wabanaki.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Data: MS v Zeus X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 16:23:05 -0000 On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:31:54AM -0400, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: > > Was this a conclusion that was supposed to have been supported by that > > list, or is it arrived at a different way? > > (a). Ok, thanks. Then I genuinely don't understand. It seemed that you could, from the same evidence, draw conclusions about the approximate size and commercial importance of the various domains listed. No? Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Thu Mar 29 10:24:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C60F221F879C for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:24:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.563 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.563 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jfyHQVABu-Bl for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECB221F87A2 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:24:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2TESp80040119 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:28:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F749ABF.2080603@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:24:15 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4F747477.9030601@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <20120329144902.GD20819@mail.yitter.info> <4F74806A.5030106@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <20120329162300.GC20945@mail.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20120329162300.GC20945@mail.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Data: MS v Zeus X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:24:24 -0000 On 3/29/12 12:23 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > Ok, thanks. Then I genuinely don't understand. It seemed that you > could, from the same evidence, draw conclusions about the approximate > size and commercial importance of the various domains listed. No? in the data set prepared by the plaintiff there is what the plaintiff alleges is a single actor (john does 1, 2 and 3, the authors of the original zeus, ice-ix and spyeye botnets, as a merged distributed system) and the (domain name) resources allocated by various (domain name) allocators to the (merged) zeus botnet. this is distinct from a random, or directed sample of domains of interest (to someone) across a random, or directed range of name spaces. in a random sample, volume may be the only significant correlate -- this was the case in the .C author's selection of registrars -- here, without mindreading, is one author's choice, as reflected in the plaintiff's research contained in its initial pleadings. two distinct interests are disclosed, one completely, and one partially. the complete disclosure is that of the plaintiff's interest -- it may not be exhaustive but it follows the distribution tail down to singleton data points -- not stopping 80% or 99%, but going to 1 in 3,000 repeatedly. the partial disclosure is that of the zeus author, as the plaintiff does not have complete knowledge, and may have missed names, or incorrectly included names in any name space. it is possible that the zeus author's resource acquisition algorithm is size and/or commerical importance (however that is defined) determined. n% of names in .com because .com is n% of all names, ... it is also possible, as i suggested earlier, that the resource acquisition is affected by the cost to acquire a unit of resource, and the contours of systemic rational resource acquisition disclose policy from an informed (wholesale) consumer point of view. .C, and zeus, both appear to show cost and/or complexity to acquire units of resource affect resource acquisition by some system authors. -e From msk@cloudmark.com Thu Mar 29 10:31:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18CC821E8162 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:31:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.63 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.63 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YmPN7Njs8Gdr for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6733A21E80F0 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::e82a:4f80:7f44:eaf7%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:30:57 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Post-BoF charter Thread-Index: Ac0N0bHHnjF3HC4lTNGvz35x1sxk2A== Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:30:56 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.22.1.154] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151Dexchmbx901corpclo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:31:01 -0000 --_004_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151Dexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151Dexchmbx901corpclo_" --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151Dexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the conver= sation at the BoF in Paris. Please comment, including posting expressions of support. Thanks, -MSK --_000_9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151Dexchmbx901corpclo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, mod= ified as per the conversation at the BoF in Paris.

 

Please comment, including posting expressions of sup= port.

 

Thanks,

-MSK

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10:54:49 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99A021F88C8 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.517 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.517 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.083, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ur5JF4UF5Yc2 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B44C21F8868 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:54:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8004BE0509; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:54:48 -0300 (BRT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:54:48 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: "weirds@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20120329175448.GD83586@registro.br> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:54:50 -0000 On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 05:30:56PM +0000, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the conversation at the BoF in Paris. > > Please comment, including posting expressions of support. This represents the discussion during the BoF addressing concerns regarding the response content and the possibility of one registry type delaying the work progress of the other. I fully support it. > Thanks, > -MSK Fred From francisco.arias@icann.org Thu Mar 29 11:15:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAF9521F8838 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:15:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g7lws43IfrQQ for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org (expfe100-2.exc.icann.org [64.78.22.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7C121F8830 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXVPMBX100-1.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.232]) by EXPFE100-2.exc.icann.org ([64.78.22.237]) with mapi; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:15:10 -0700 From: Francisco Arias To: "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:15:08 -0700 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Post-BoF charter Thread-Index: Ac0N1+Chl1F0YWbcR1GWlBuSrmoYlw== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20120329175448.GD83586@registro.br> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.14.0.111121 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:15:16 -0000 On 3/29/12 7:54 PM, "Frederico A C Neves" wrote: >This represents the discussion during the BoF addressing concerns >regarding the response content and the possibility of one registry >type delaying the work progress of the other. I fully support it. +1 __ Francisco. From patrick@vande-walle.eu Thu Mar 29 11:16:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898F821E8115 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:16:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M9pV6QU7Nx5p for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lucifer.abilit.eu (lucifer.abilit.eu [85.93.218.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7B921F882E for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu (ISOC.abilit.eu [10.10.13.199]) by lucifer.abilit.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28B373600F5 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:16:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08769300C93 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:16:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail2.isoc.lu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail2.isoc.lu [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15323-07 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:15:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Cioran.vande-walle.eu (251.9-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be [87.65.9.251]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: patrick@vande-walle.eu) by mail2.isoc.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D0666300C8B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:15:48 +0200 (CEST) VBR-Info: md=vande-walle.eu; mc=all; mv=dwl.spamhaus.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=vande-walle.eu; s=Sig; t=1333044948; bh=sRlN+aK8NKjm0uk4LNW6xzpcxCOthI5oWZAyX25mxVM=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=nBcto5iT2tyf4fGnvMvod9TsgMvVmrG2U38p14Fs+LZbk+zMqZAxU7BnosVnPTRfh zvZFwyY+fFzn8An9Ka3RmwkE/UP8mxPiAFEgzBLWRyOJvpsLAVmtbpkUkId33oD3NG hPJPvDidrn19HSp0b5S/o8CPzmo9sOMCJuHr79us= Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Cioran.vande-walle.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97CE240A6B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:15:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4F74A6D1.6030804@vande-walle.eu> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:15:45 +0200 From: Patrick Vande Walle Organization: My own disorganization User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120310 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "weirds@ietf.org" References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060406080807080703000700" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.4 (mail2.isoc.lu [0.0.0.0]); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:15:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Maia Mailguard 1.0.3 Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: patrick@vande-walle.eu List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:16:03 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060406080807080703000700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 29/03/12 19:30, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the > conversation at the BoF in Paris. > > > > Please comment, including posting expressions of support. > > > I support this draft charter. Patrick Vande Walle --------------060406080807080703000700 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 29/03/12 19:30, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the conversation at the BoF in Paris.

 

Please comment, including posting expressions of support.

 


I support this draft charter.

Patrick Vande Walle


--------------060406080807080703000700-- From carlosm3011@gmail.com Thu Mar 29 11:20:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5328321E8145 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:20:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CZd-miau2F8s for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com (mail-qc0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9426121E8115 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qcsq13 with SMTP id q13so1797407qcs.31 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:20:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=gezcDh1Hj2ChX3dBY1H5lpp9ipdfrqR1ZQh9q8BnAOo=; b=mMutmTNmkuktqr//bLh0A8XJLnt6548IuJ9fjYtVoomSDWyc0zSE3veUHKJBvV7WJG ogvuVM6dNQrV/aVGSa392kv8cN86d4m7GyE26Ryj9vn53nHr3p7GrWHZ6R0E2H8OM3tg zQNMjBeFuzfXd7Mj252yPev2VqPUDxP3+QnuorndfwQYneX1+73kNrv4ojIHi+k9klnG ciluQEXkG2D4ECzEhH9Ets8e2yUkXP7M0xsRW+AzvJUID0mcbnXx0+Jndqf/+abDOH67 OnUi/eHlqrxnLaTVAiGYctWRzkqrGFoPndu3ny7reXWkIVuhiqTx0RkHTk5wlRtk9dEl aQ5g== Received: by 10.224.116.74 with SMTP id l10mr1613625qaq.42.1333045214080; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:20:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europa.local ([200.7.85.168]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f12sm13699764qan.1.2012.03.29.11.20.12 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F74A7DA.8060400@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:20:10 -0300 From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090900080808080409080500" Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:20:15 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090900080808080409080500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I support the Post-BoF charter. regards, -Carlos On 3/29/12 2:30 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the > conversation at the BoF in Paris. > > > > Please comment, including posting expressions of support. > > > > Thanks, > > -MSK > > > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --------------090900080808080409080500 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I support the Post-BoF charter.

regards,

-Carlos

On 3/29/12 2:30 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the conversation at the BoF in Paris.

 

Please comment, including posting expressions of support.

 

Thanks,

-MSK



_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds
--------------090900080808080409080500-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Thu Mar 29 11:38:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C862B21E80CA for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:38:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zUJ1ZgD81V8i for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og113.obsmtp.com (exprod6og113.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D683E21E80C1 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob113.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT3SsCdPNhuLNStrv1n1sh4m9c4P6ZJ1x@postini.com; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:38:02 PDT Received: from dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.170.12.113]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id q2TIbwGl021104; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:38:01 -0400 Received: from dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.170.12.139]) by dul1wnexcn03.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:37:57 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXCAS02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([10.173.152.206]) by dul1wnexcn04.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:37:58 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:37:57 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Post-BoF charter Thread-Index: Ac0N0bHHnjF3HC4lTNGvz35x1sxk2AACUd5Q Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:37:56 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5D9AB8@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5D9AB8BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Mar 2012 18:37:58.0076 (UTC) FILETIME=[0FFB9FC0:01CD0DDB] Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:38:03 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5D9AB8BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support this version of the charter. Scott From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Murray S. Kucherawy Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:31 PM To: weirds@ietf.org Subject: [weirds] Post-BoF charter Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the conver= sation at the BoF in Paris. Please comment, including posting expressions of support. Thanks, -MSK --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5D9AB8BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I support this version= of the charter.

 

Scott

 

From: weirds-b= ounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Murray S. Kucherawy
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 1:31 PM
To: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: [weirds] Post-BoF charter

 

Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, mod= ified as per the conversation at the BoF in Paris.

 

Please comment, including posting expressions of sup= port.

 

Thanks,

-MSK

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F0D5D9AB8BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From fobispo@isc.org Thu Mar 29 11:44:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49BDB21F88AC for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:44:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ICK8bMesXZZb for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [IPv6:2001:500:60::65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1B1621F87EA for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:44:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bikeshed.isc.org (bikeshed.isc.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:d::19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.isc.org", Issuer "RapidSSL CA" (not verified)) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6D4B5F98B9; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:44:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Received: from [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:c96a:687f:e95e:435e] (unknown [IPv6:2001:4f8:3:64:c96a:687f:e95e:435e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by bikeshed.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 23BDD216C33; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:44:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fobispo@isc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Francisco Obispo In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:43:59 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1F4F4316-8765-4A93-814F-BC887DA24D78@isc.org> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:44:17 -0000 I support this charter On Mar 29, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the = conversation at the BoF in Paris. > =20 > Please comment, including posting expressions of support. > =20 > Thanks, > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds Francisco Obispo=20 email: fobispo@isc.org Phone: +1 650 423 1374 || INOC-DBA *3557* NOC PGP KeyID =3D B38DB1BE From aservin@lacnic.net Thu Mar 29 15:15:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E567921F869F for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:15:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.849 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.849 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.749, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9kbbv9JfP3KV for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04FB21F84EA for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-42f5.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-42f5.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.66.245]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id D441830846E; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:14:56 -0300 (UYT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8A93B77A-61FF-4F83-A9CA-EA392518D6AB" From: Arturo Servin In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:14:53 +0200 Message-Id: References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:15:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8A93B77A-61FF-4F83-A9CA-EA392518D6AB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Supported. Regards as On 29 Mar 2012, at 19:30, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the = conversation at the BoF in Paris. > =20 > Please comment, including posting expressions of support. > =20 > Thanks, > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail=_8A93B77A-61FF-4F83-A9CA-EA392518D6AB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

= Supported.

Regards
as

<= div>
On 29 Mar 2012, at 19:30, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

Attached is the last charter = Andy Newton posted, modified as per the conversation at the BoF in = Paris.
 
Please comment, = including posting expressions of support.
 
Thanks,
-MSK
<weirds_charter.txt>______= _________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:37:53 -0000 >Please comment, including posting expressions of support. > Should the Working Group reach a point where it determines that the problem > of producing a grand unified specification for both numbers and names > appears to be intractable, it will be permitted to divide the problem > into separate tasks and amend its milestones accordingly. Hi, it's me, your little ray of grey drizzle. On its own, this language is awful, since it still permits WG members to stall work indefinitely by denying that the names effort has gone off into the weeds. But since our AD made it crystal clear that he'll wield an axe if he sees that happening, it's OK. Ship it. R's, John From presnick@qualcomm.com Thu Mar 29 15:42:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F24321F84F3 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:42:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OS5C3JIgpqHM for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5300821F854B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:42:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qualcomm.com; i=presnick@qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1333060960; x=1364596960; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc: subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type: x-originating-ip; z=Message-ID:=20<4F74E55B.80309@qualcomm.com>|Date:=20Fri, =2030=20Mar=202012=2000:42:35=20+0200|From:=20Pete=20Resn ick=20|User-Agent:=20Mozilla/5.0 =20(Macintosh=3B=20U=3B=20Intel=20Mac=20OS=20X=2010.6=3B =20en-US=3B=20rv:1.9.1.9)=20Gecko/20100630=20Eudora/3.0.4 |MIME-Version:=201.0|To:=20"Murray=20S.=20Kucherawy"=20|CC:=20"weirds@ietf.org"=20|Subject:=20Re:=20[weirds]=20Post-BoF=20charter |References:=20<9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@ex ch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com>|In-Reply-To:=20<9452079D1A5 1524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.co m>|Content-Type:=20multipart/alternative=3B=0D=0A=09bound ary=3D"------------090109060205050703010405" |X-Originating-IP:=20[172.30.48.1]; bh=E/O0IYpFlBE7mLfrbIYS4wRkM9IhdpyUbidSq9ujSjs=; b=Z5gQAAd2yRR+0SUDTj7dtby3JvaIfVJCiUCkrkrpcnUeOTV0kDqwuky/ VsgRPYCPNsb9dVKBiBl7w3VWgNB0PUYuo4HMDjXJR7qaDSASwm7JZ8C4k kAnPKHOgA7Jsjiz7bBtoqtzSZo8AlrELCKHXgF7Zp+mHKZFLhbfBsCw93 U=; X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5400,1158,6664"; a="177139524" Received: from ironmsg04-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.18]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2012 15:42:39 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,338,1330934400"; d="scan'208,217";a="296492994" Received: from nasanexhc04.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.17]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 29 Mar 2012 15:42:39 -0700 Received: from dhcp-4068.meeting.ietf.org (172.30.48.1) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (172.30.48.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.283.3; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:42:39 -0700 Message-ID: <4F74E55B.80309@qualcomm.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:42:35 +0200 From: Pete Resnick User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100630 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090109060205050703010405" X-Originating-IP: [172.30.48.1] Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:42:41 -0000 --------------090109060205050703010405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/29/12 7:30 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the > conversation at the BoF in Paris. > > Please comment, including posting expressions of support. > Folks, I'm most interested in expressions of support (or lack of support) and comments from people who did *not* support the previous version of the charter. If you supported the previous version but *don't* like this one, your comments would also be appreciated. If you supported the last one and still like this one, it would probably be most useful to hold off just saying that for the moment. Otherwise, if there are folks who still don't like it and we make a few more changes (all of which you still like), you're going to be generating a lot of email messages. :-) But I guess I'm glad to hear that you still like it. pr -- Pete Resnick Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102 --------------090109060205050703010405 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/29/12 7:30 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the conversation at the BoF in Paris.

 

Please comment, including posting expressions of support.


Folks, I'm most interested in expressions of support (or lack of support) and comments from people who did *not* support the previous version of the charter. If you supported the previous version but *don't* like this one, your comments would also be appreciated. If you supported the last one and still like this one, it would probably be most useful to hold off just saying that for the moment. Otherwise, if there are folks who still don't like it and we make a few more changes (all of which you still like), you're going to be generating a lot of email messages. :-)

But I guess I'm glad to hear that you still like it.

pr
-- 
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102
--------------090109060205050703010405-- From msk@cloudmark.com Thu Mar 29 15:43:33 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DEC21F85C9 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:43:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.638 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.638 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WxImLyvdHJZS for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B25D021F85C0 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::e82a:4f80:7f44:eaf7%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:43:31 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Post-BoF charter Thread-Index: Ac0N0bHHnjF3HC4lTNGvz35x1sxk2AAZXkqAAA6M60A= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:43:31 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C1FBE@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <20120329223717.81240.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20120329223717.81240.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.22.1.158] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:43:33 -0000 PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBKb2huIExldmluZSBbbWFpbHRv OmpvaG5sQGllY2MuY29tXQ0KPiBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgTWFyY2ggMjksIDIwMTIgMzozNyBQ TQ0KPiBUbzogd2VpcmRzQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IENjOiBNdXJyYXkgUy4gS3VjaGVyYXd5DQo+IFN1 YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbd2VpcmRzXSBQb3N0LUJvRiBjaGFydGVyDQo+IA0KPiA+ICAgIFNob3VsZCB0 aGUgV29ya2luZyBHcm91cCByZWFjaCBhIHBvaW50IHdoZXJlIGl0IGRldGVybWluZXMgdGhhdCB0 aGUgcHJvYmxlbQ0KPiA+ICAgIG9mIHByb2R1Y2luZyBhIGdyYW5kIHVuaWZpZWQgc3BlY2lmaWNh dGlvbiBmb3IgYm90aCBudW1iZXJzIGFuZCBuYW1lcw0KPiA+ICAgIGFwcGVhcnMgdG8gYmUgaW50 cmFjdGFibGUsIGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgcGVybWl0dGVkIHRvIGRpdmlkZSB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbQ0KPiA+ ICAgIGludG8gc2VwYXJhdGUgdGFza3MgYW5kIGFtZW5kIGl0cyBtaWxlc3RvbmVzIGFjY29yZGlu Z2x5Lg0KPiANCj4gSGksIGl0J3MgbWUsIHlvdXIgbGl0dGxlIHJheSBvZiBncmV5IGRyaXp6bGUu ICBPbiBpdHMgb3duLCB0aGlzDQo+IGxhbmd1YWdlIGlzIGF3ZnVsLCBzaW5jZSBpdCBzdGlsbCBw ZXJtaXRzIFdHIG1lbWJlcnMgdG8gc3RhbGwgd29yaw0KPiBpbmRlZmluaXRlbHkgYnkgZGVueWlu ZyB0aGF0IHRoZSBuYW1lcyBlZmZvcnQgaGFzIGdvbmUgb2ZmIGludG8gdGhlDQo+IHdlZWRzLiAg QnV0IHNpbmNlIG91ciBBRCBtYWRlIGl0IGNyeXN0YWwgY2xlYXIgdGhhdCBoZSdsbCB3aWVsZCBh biBheGUNCj4gaWYgaGUgc2VlcyB0aGF0IGhhcHBlbmluZywgaXQncyBPSy4gIFNoaXAgaXQuDQoN CkRvZXNuJ3QgdGhpcyB0ZXh0IGdpdmUgdGhlIGNvLWNoYWlycyB0aGUgYWJpbGl0eSB0byB3YWxs b3AgZXhhY3RseSB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSB5b3UncmUgZGVzY3JpYmluZz8NCg== From sm@resistor.net Thu Mar 29 23:37:07 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A4E621F878B for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:37:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.329 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.329 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.330, BAYES_50=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3LDXYQE7NAKJ for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4355E21F8652 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2U6axNp013349 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:37:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1333089424; i=@resistor.net; bh=9m7if4xhh3zNYUlSRG8AV4WwtyARN3wlG9BO6VHpfQ8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=LYNRGZpMsJsC8MetUDVctFqJtNe39gyYP/YeIB9lkZ6CdLyAwqsCLYa+UgXJ0w6Gn 5CEzGAamh4Q8pAlqKmlgnKYwHVS0qJSTXOwEUHl8eqvozAH5ua2VefAOHbCeNYsO6A 90apUAtNTTUtSkgdWr7CJL8H2dWjcNMR9F7UvXdk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1333089424; i=@resistor.net; bh=9m7if4xhh3zNYUlSRG8AV4WwtyARN3wlG9BO6VHpfQ8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc; b=JHhleIUTtTrLp/xOtmU2YAgYJQAOdbc15hSZL3/+tqFx2YAONis26F7PH2dtj82Q3 bVIZwi/plVquiCHNA0ZTJyvN+J9loMfJUJowlD0PCe1A5xEo/v2R+w0kV7225QXt7O MFz0LtyaIEK8NS1zDGu2HJSnEvu9kx+68PnPrL8M= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120329222707.0d809178@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:37:05 -0700 To: weirds@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: <20120329223717.81240.qmail@joyce.lan> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <20120329223717.81240.qmail@joyce.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:37:07 -0000 At 15:37 29-03-2012, John Levine wrote: >Hi, it's me, your little ray of grey drizzle. On its own, this >language is awful, since it still permits WG members to stall work >indefinitely by denying that the names effort has gone off into the Yes. During the BoF, the AD voiced out a preference for a severability clause. Breaking the grand unified specification into separate tasks is not that in my uninformed opinion. In a WG session yesterday, the chair quoted King Solomon: According to legend, it is about two prostitutes who came before King Solomon, bringing with them a single baby boy. Each mother told the same story; that both had given birth to a child, that one child was dead in the morning and that the live child was hers. Each mother accused the other, that after having discovered that her child had died during the night, its mother had stolen the other mother's live baby and replaced it with the dead child. In a dispute such as this, where there is no evidence or witness, King Solomon's solution is fascinating. After some deliberation, he called for a sword to be brought before him. He declared that there was only one fair solution, namely, that the live child should be split in two, each woman receiving half of the child. Basically, the text permits everyone to say that the IETF is working on it and to produce as many deliverables to keep everyone happy. Regards, -sm From galvin+weirds@elistx.com Fri Mar 30 01:48:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A027721F86FA for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:48:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.265 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.265 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0QaZul5XELC9 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ee01.elistx.com (ee01.elistx.com [67.155.182.182]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA8521F86CA for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.3-2x2 #31965) with ESMTP id <0M1O00I69WF4VI@elistx.com> for weirds@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:48:30 +0200 From: Jim Galvin In-reply-to: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , weirds@ietf.org Message-id: <3EE9DC166CCD9D55E8F72D41@dhcp-62e8.meeting.ietf.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.clo udmark.com> Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:48:17 -0000 I support this charter as written. Jim -- On March 29, 2012 5:30:56 PM +0000 "Murray S. Kucherawy" wrote regarding [weirds] Post-BoF charter -- > > > Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the > conversation at the BoF in Paris. > > > > Please comment, including posting expressions of support. > > > > Thanks, > > -MSK From andrei.robachevsky@gmail.com Fri Mar 30 01:56:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C763421F890A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:56:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ukZFjuymcjst for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bk0-f44.google.com (mail-bk0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECBFE21F88DC for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bkuw5 with SMTP id w5so314292bku.31 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:55:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XozfXsfsFJd+nEZI/SY8hrjstKg/LDS1V2gx8gbW5Jc=; b=GxAa5FX+MI+LDdp36H+i4puDBiga/B91XG/new6Wp4zOFSq8EnMKDqE7HXFfD1u0vv Oidp6ayLJssbkaNi+gOboxzIrni4/uEpd0dRRCbylPGA8O0BAUEx4QAqr3xhf1X7WXlJ JiotgxdZlEIpwPhl3NsNDeAKkwZf6/0iLR6a7wpk38TCns2PFUUw58Nc0nYSO7CS9kA2 YYeOFbC+MkQSskSpYe7cb8AeMHuMwnsuyklUnWXrN5b78AzW52DoI/xJD3ToA9Bdnrjd DFtWamJ0yuK/AAYhQFASyKU6vFk9nLPEvZ050X1n82RNJaXkaPTiX6j3S9IMdLZntTKV cYIA== Received: by 10.205.122.2 with SMTP id ge2mr575971bkc.113.1333097759097; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-176c.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-176c.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.23.108]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c4sm19245389bkh.0.2012.03.30.01.55.57 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:55:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F75751C.9030309@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:55:56 +0200 From: Andrei Robachevsky User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20120208 Thunderbird/10.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "weirds@ietf.org" References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:56:12 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Murray S. Kucherawy wrote on 29/03/2012 19:30: > Should the Working Group reach a point where it determines that the > problem of producing a grand unified specification for both numbers > and names appears to be intractable, it will be permitted to divide > the problem into separate tasks and amend its milestones > accordingly. > > Milestones Nov 2012 Draft WEIRDS requirements to the IESG for > publication as an Informational RFC. > > Jul 2013 Draft WEIRDS specifications for registry queries and > responses to the IESG for publication on the Standards Track. While the above text provides a way for separation of the work on these two registry types, the milestones are even more consolidated than in the previous version. Does it imply, for instance, that name and number registries will have the same set of queries? It also doesn't reflect the agreement that work proceeds in parallel. Perhaps a more elaborated set of deliverables could help? Andrei -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk91dRsACgkQljz5tZmtij+iSACfcO1Tizh2cnL6FE6B3CD730cX SJQAn0gN5spPQnXND84Zgu5si+9sUpJx =Orvc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From andy@arin.net Fri Mar 30 02:21:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC9C221F8828 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:21:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ER6b0x9I4nKS for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5204721F87E4 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id E83362135A6; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4F902135A6; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:20:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:20:29 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH01.corp.arin.net ([169.254.1.210]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:20:46 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Andrei Robachevsky Thread-Topic: [weirds] Post-BoF charter Thread-Index: Ac0N0bHHnjF3HC4lTNGvz35x1sxk2AAosCAAAADeBwA= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:20:45 +0000 Message-ID: <6693E0F2-57C5-4C28-98F2-D34FC7CE4482@arin.net> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <4F75751C.9030309@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4F75751C.9030309@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6C89A653B438B94289FC6C5C4ECF47AF@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:21:01 -0000 On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:55 AM, Andrei Robachevsky wrote: > Does it imply, for instance, that name > and number registries will have the same set of queries? If that is the case, we have a problem as there is no complete overlap. -andy From msk@cloudmark.com Fri Mar 30 02:28:11 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 494F921F8883 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:28:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IHxtGs4mInXw for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com (ht2-outbound.cloudmark.com [72.5.239.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D5C321F8600 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EXCH-MBX901.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::addf:849a:f71c:4a82]) by exch-htcas902.corp.cloudmark.com ([fe80::e82a:4f80:7f44:eaf7%12]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:28:10 -0700 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Post-BoF charter Thread-Index: Ac0N0bHHnjF3HC4lTNGvz35x1sxk2AAu+XMAAA2TxOA= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:28:09 +0000 Message-ID: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C270E@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <4F75751C.9030309@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4F75751C.9030309@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.129.23.154] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:28:11 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Andrei Robachevsky > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 1:56 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter >=20 > While the above text provides a way for separation of the work on these > two registry types, the milestones are even more consolidated than in > the previous version. Does it imply, for instance, that name and number > registries will have the same set of queries? It also doesn't reflect > the agreement that work proceeds in parallel. Perhaps a more elaborated > set of deliverables could help? My understanding is that the text itself is far more critical to get right = than the milestones, so we can work with Pete to fix them, but it's not som= ething to focus on. I take it you're satisfied with the text portion? -MSK From bje@apnic.net Fri Mar 30 02:31:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3115821F88EB for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:31:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.851 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MTu7Ufn9Nu7b for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp.apnic.net (asmtp.apnic.net [IPv6:2001:dc0:2001:11::199]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE8A21F8644 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-16f8.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-16f8.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.22.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by asmtp.apnic.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0324B67D6; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:31:09 +1000 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_95637FF0-D2A1-4023-AE3A-39DA968A8C89"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Byron Ellacott In-Reply-To: <4F75751C.9030309@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:31:07 +1000 Message-Id: References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <4F75751C.9030309@gmail.com> To: Andrei Robachevsky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:31:36 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_95637FF0-D2A1-4023-AE3A-39DA968A8C89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Andrei, I read those milestones as an intent for parallel work to hit the = milestones at the same time. The severance clause should be sufficient = to create separate milestones if necessary. Also note that the Jul 2013 = milestone talks about specifications as a plural. I don't think it's = necessary to wordsmith in "separate drafts for names and numbers." As = discussed in the BOF, the requirements document should make that = apparent (or not, as the case may be). Byron On 30/03/2012, at 6:55 PM, Andrei Robachevsky wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 >=20 > Murray S. Kucherawy wrote on 29/03/2012 19:30: >> Should the Working Group reach a point where it determines that the >> problem of producing a grand unified specification for both numbers >> and names appears to be intractable, it will be permitted to divide >> the problem into separate tasks and amend its milestones >> accordingly. >>=20 >> Milestones Nov 2012 Draft WEIRDS requirements to the IESG for >> publication as an Informational RFC. >>=20 >> Jul 2013 Draft WEIRDS specifications for registry queries and >> responses to the IESG for publication on the Standards Track. >=20 > While the above text provides a way for separation of the work on > these two registry types, the milestones are even more consolidated > than in the previous version. Does it imply, for instance, that name > and number registries will have the same set of queries? It also > doesn't reflect the agreement that work proceeds in parallel. Perhaps > a more elaborated set of deliverables could help? >=20 > Andrei > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ >=20 > iEYEARECAAYFAk91dRsACgkQljz5tZmtij+iSACfcO1Tizh2cnL6FE6B3CD730cX > SJQAn0gN5spPQnXND84Zgu5si+9sUpJx > =3DOrvc > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --=20 Byron Ellacott email: bje@apnic.net Technical Director, APNIC sip: bje@voip.apnic.net http://www.apnic.net phone: +61 7 3858 3100 ________________________________________________________________________ * Sent by email to save paper. Print only if necessary. --Apple-Mail=_95637FF0-D2A1-4023-AE3A-39DA968A8C89 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIEBjCCBAIw ggLqoAMCAQICCCoPITf60ZNDMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIw EAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwxFjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNi YW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQBGRYCY2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMB4XDTExMTEyODAxNTEzNloXDTEy MTEyNzAxNTEzNlowgZIxGTAXBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEBDAliamUtc3RhZmYxEjAQBgNVBAMMCWJqZS1z dGFmZjEOMAwGA1UEKgwFQnlyb24xETAPBgNVBAQMCEVsbGFjb3R0MQ8wDQYDVQQLDAZQZW9wbGUx FjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxFTATBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEZFgVzdGFmZjCCASIwDQYJKoZI hvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBANVQo/BOmY5CCWNeAldlgoWZKOzIZpOsFzD6NB2oAErtclDu uiZsXfl+L97UOwUlhu1eGlY5gKuAhGcrEBvDgTT1eEr3vkdKILhJw78s5n8eLOWrmhPKBnW8gSn9 7MbAxVQx3V1/RpToKAF8cR4il03Z7mveaBQbaivM2jReHcgfJPt9w0qhTVZO2POLuVClRcExaNt1 h+QdMLa6VU5x7rJo9JFqjTAvJzMApW+WY/7oumR9+4a9ZGThlETI2b83XAMrrJ7DHm237Jskgl+X FGILIq8zOhNiAbhEg+gAyJ8bOzwwydDY+ggWQ466duZZq4wxmr1+YhxVf51v2R5MSicCAwEAAaN6 MHgwHQYDVR0OBBYEFIQXSivz3cLpaFy23DdhpGhyyo5pMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwHwYDVR0jBBgw FoAU4D23klvuLqOyPnnbRaswQi8BS6wwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgHyMBgGA1UdEQQRMA+BDWJqZUBh cG5pYy5uZXQwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAEk9zi8BTUEY4rqDGEIFDNIpmX/yS3fTah39Mele pV93sRsjqLy2G47vhhnkgSTEWV2jJOD7tjzjswxtWUL6KG36dUDVL3XbQ1OObxkiDJbqje4BoWrd a8/5PoIPC0hkSDXGoitvoXkL8Pd9x9Y+kyMlKo1C0lk5bCUG4yjk5wVLuSSm5m+KZ3+YVdPp6dKp C0DRhvFdsrz2zIOT/sWheCQO0HRU300UYngB/xoqc1KWH2dROIUhLqwtyoCQbQKQjW9C+JMMw2Ij vfVXJZGMWjbp5l8RQeUSJ+0vVJXJbIL6PfEsyQupUV3AJsSTRmtllqzCBCz2Abd14xyeqw0eJfwx ggMtMIIDKQIBATB/MHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIwEAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwxFjAU BgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNiYW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQBGRYC Y2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVAggqDyE3+tGTQzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBgzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJ KoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xMjAzMzAwOTMxMDdaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBRG JPzLr1lZPlwhB2Qnfr+Sc7LJUjCBjwYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGBMH8wczERMA8GA1UEAwwIc3RhZmYt Y2ExEjAQBgNVBAsMCVRlY2huaWNhbDEWMBQGA1UECgwNQVBOSUMgUHR5IEx0ZDERMA8GA1UEBwwI QnJpc2JhbmUxEjAQBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEZFgJjYTELMAkGA1UEBhMCQVUCCCoPITf60ZNDMIGRBgsq hkiG9w0BCRACCzGBgaB/MHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIwEAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwx FjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNiYW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQB GRYCY2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVAggqDyE3+tGTQzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQAZ9rgHjGNF2K30 UgGLYkEpGu+b2H37XcUNLW1Es+o3LFHObJOTSDwXrHhTeXj/RfDcGR6J7thffFEe8sb4MiQSAYh3 Z3CKeHWKFBMzvT0o9c6549UKifdQjoc2IAsKiqWXsCMApKJNwGvNWVVkfuj/1iT0YTEbogBidEL5 14zsLG5AebHit19J1L7dLwFG1EJ2E/xHN2LP6OQWkdIGFIz4rEQ+o/yrqZeQ6ksPLK8pOBtMaC/O z27sc/HzEYKpvNnRNSCt1b29b45D+WNJh+esWsaM33cfzo+9mE6Rni9ygN5+o3CrsngcDLWXH3yT fPTc43FotS33xGq4JAe7zImaAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail=_95637FF0-D2A1-4023-AE3A-39DA968A8C89-- From andrei.robachevsky@gmail.com Fri Mar 30 03:09:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C127621F86EF for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:09:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7o7d9QlbgOt for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bk0-f44.google.com (mail-bk0-f44.google.com [209.85.214.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A959C21F86C2 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bkuw5 with SMTP id w5so380097bku.31 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:09:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GcRelVhJvCDUt5buNkP006Frg7MRUHZe3f5DPkui2K4=; b=jWglpEBzn3XKqyeB4Emigi3VTlO0QFdrCu6eUXcRGM0g6ERemyQ9Zavmr/S0sdVfuZ Mxjl2d+pGM1Fah7pfm9EdoYg9ybrf3AtN5dG5fP5dKnkK5qX8xJSTGH2AElKbCRYC/Qz YRUOHl3gTJrKwLFV+GbJL2DCL1cLq1zh4DdXj3LGDlQzfvLUgnyjh17xvV54imSuNd1T CqNHXN9bGNvSgS32TuUQhfJ+Qf3xPRFQ955fDBVF0Vt1OhJSQwJK16/ukyI6lYxzic0A xKSfbaw9PIStoybzL3wAZIBUR87UgPk2qO+Hd1ES9enF6pcG1krcmQ7eZ9M3Y89rgW4i 08eg== Received: by 10.205.125.148 with SMTP id gs20mr714268bkc.47.1333102153776; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-176c.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-176c.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.23.108]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u5sm19678722bka.5.2012.03.30.03.09.11 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4F758646.5060006@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:09:10 +0200 From: Andrei Robachevsky User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20120208 Thunderbird/10.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Byron Ellacott References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <4F75751C.9030309@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:09:16 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Byron, Byron Ellacott wrote on 30/03/2012 11:31: > Hi Andrei, > > I read those milestones as an intent for parallel work to hit the > milestones at the same time. The severance clause should be > sufficient to create separate milestones if necessary. Also note > that the Jul 2013 milestone talks about specifications as a plural. > I don't think it's necessary to wordsmith in "separate drafts for > names and numbers." As discussed in the BOF, the requirements > document should make that apparent (or not, as the case may be). > Fair enough. I agree that we probably shouldn't overspecify the workings of the WG here. If we lean more towards being generic, I suggest that the second milestone reads as: Jul 2013 Draft WEIRDS service and data framework specifications to the IESG for publication on the Standards Track. Andrei > Byron > > On 30/03/2012, at 6:55 PM, Andrei Robachevsky wrote: > > Murray S. Kucherawy wrote on 29/03/2012 19:30: >>>> Should the Working Group reach a point where it determines >>>> that the problem of producing a grand unified specification >>>> for both numbers and names appears to be intractable, it will >>>> be permitted to divide the problem into separate tasks and >>>> amend its milestones accordingly. >>>> >>>> Milestones Nov 2012 Draft WEIRDS requirements to the IESG >>>> for publication as an Informational RFC. >>>> >>>> Jul 2013 Draft WEIRDS specifications for registry queries >>>> and responses to the IESG for publication on the Standards >>>> Track. > > While the above text provides a way for separation of the work on > these two registry types, the milestones are even more > consolidated than in the previous version. Does it imply, for > instance, that name and number registries will have the same set of > queries? It also doesn't reflect the agreement that work proceeds > in parallel. Perhaps a more elaborated set of deliverables could > help? > > Andrei >> _______________________________________________ weirds mailing >> list weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.14 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk91hkUACgkQljz5tZmtij+nRwCg3i2tddLa4uCba9AJt9H4/Ju/ 4iEAoKLf+huv63S32vEU/0c4+HwvR9Af =7LQm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bje@apnic.net Fri Mar 30 04:43:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9995421F87EB for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:43:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.663 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.663 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.562, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fQu16de6EaV2 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp.apnic.net (asmtp.apnic.net [IPv6:2001:dc0:2001:11::199]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37EFE21F87A3 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:43:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-16f8.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-16f8.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.22.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by asmtp.apnic.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F213AB67D6; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:43:14 +1000 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_97F12FA5-1134-4DAA-BC5F-4A6218847F27"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Byron Ellacott In-Reply-To: <4F758646.5060006@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 21:43:16 +1000 Message-Id: <3180A03E-BE70-45E1-90B2-392AC1B611F8@apnic.net> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <4F75751C.9030309@gmail.com> <4F758646.5060006@gmail.com> To: Andrei Robachevsky X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:43:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_97F12FA5-1134-4DAA-BC5F-4A6218847F27 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On 30/03/2012, at 8:09 PM, Andrei Robachevsky wrote: > Fair enough. I agree that we probably shouldn't overspecify the > workings of the WG here. If we lean more towards being generic, I > suggest that the second milestone reads as: >=20 > Jul 2013 Draft WEIRDS service and data framework specifications = to the > IESG for publication on the Standards Track. I'm comfortable with that, though I should also say I'm comfortable with = the current wording, and with the charter as a whole as it stands. Byron= --Apple-Mail=_97F12FA5-1134-4DAA-BC5F-4A6218847F27 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIEBjCCBAIw ggLqoAMCAQICCCoPITf60ZNDMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIw EAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwxFjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNi YW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQBGRYCY2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVMB4XDTExMTEyODAxNTEzNloXDTEy MTEyNzAxNTEzNlowgZIxGTAXBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEBDAliamUtc3RhZmYxEjAQBgNVBAMMCWJqZS1z dGFmZjEOMAwGA1UEKgwFQnlyb24xETAPBgNVBAQMCEVsbGFjb3R0MQ8wDQYDVQQLDAZQZW9wbGUx FjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxFTATBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEZFgVzdGFmZjCCASIwDQYJKoZI hvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBANVQo/BOmY5CCWNeAldlgoWZKOzIZpOsFzD6NB2oAErtclDu uiZsXfl+L97UOwUlhu1eGlY5gKuAhGcrEBvDgTT1eEr3vkdKILhJw78s5n8eLOWrmhPKBnW8gSn9 7MbAxVQx3V1/RpToKAF8cR4il03Z7mveaBQbaivM2jReHcgfJPt9w0qhTVZO2POLuVClRcExaNt1 h+QdMLa6VU5x7rJo9JFqjTAvJzMApW+WY/7oumR9+4a9ZGThlETI2b83XAMrrJ7DHm237Jskgl+X FGILIq8zOhNiAbhEg+gAyJ8bOzwwydDY+ggWQ466duZZq4wxmr1+YhxVf51v2R5MSicCAwEAAaN6 MHgwHQYDVR0OBBYEFIQXSivz3cLpaFy23DdhpGhyyo5pMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwHwYDVR0jBBgw FoAU4D23klvuLqOyPnnbRaswQi8BS6wwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgHyMBgGA1UdEQQRMA+BDWJqZUBh cG5pYy5uZXQwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggEBAEk9zi8BTUEY4rqDGEIFDNIpmX/yS3fTah39Mele pV93sRsjqLy2G47vhhnkgSTEWV2jJOD7tjzjswxtWUL6KG36dUDVL3XbQ1OObxkiDJbqje4BoWrd a8/5PoIPC0hkSDXGoitvoXkL8Pd9x9Y+kyMlKo1C0lk5bCUG4yjk5wVLuSSm5m+KZ3+YVdPp6dKp C0DRhvFdsrz2zIOT/sWheCQO0HRU300UYngB/xoqc1KWH2dROIUhLqwtyoCQbQKQjW9C+JMMw2Ij vfVXJZGMWjbp5l8RQeUSJ+0vVJXJbIL6PfEsyQupUV3AJsSTRmtllqzCBCz2Abd14xyeqw0eJfwx ggMtMIIDKQIBATB/MHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIwEAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwxFjAU BgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNiYW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQBGRYC Y2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVAggqDyE3+tGTQzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBgzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJ KoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0xMjAzMzAxMTQzMTZaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBSe FXC1VLXr3JnApX5SLPPCY7+EkDCBjwYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMYGBMH8wczERMA8GA1UEAwwIc3RhZmYt Y2ExEjAQBgNVBAsMCVRlY2huaWNhbDEWMBQGA1UECgwNQVBOSUMgUHR5IEx0ZDERMA8GA1UEBwwI QnJpc2JhbmUxEjAQBgoJkiaJk/IsZAEZFgJjYTELMAkGA1UEBhMCQVUCCCoPITf60ZNDMIGRBgsq hkiG9w0BCRACCzGBgaB/MHMxETAPBgNVBAMMCHN0YWZmLWNhMRIwEAYDVQQLDAlUZWNobmljYWwx FjAUBgNVBAoMDUFQTklDIFB0eSBMdGQxETAPBgNVBAcMCEJyaXNiYW5lMRIwEAYKCZImiZPyLGQB GRYCY2ExCzAJBgNVBAYTAkFVAggqDyE3+tGTQzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQBNu80Rvz2YSjFx OQQooUvX/+1pwM4kZsx7mJg9cqN+XzbTIDrnZ/yDPH5RlLZEhNF5NzrOwTzwEhEezibs811Kn9GS 1/9lhHse0dyGIyb+f7NPjFVLpc0rqlQgA1/WisvxGS9baBv570OWXiKt7D2aJQgUlRHMWVkztMtG CErveSYWA3h6xq7s5klJl+D8eHmYR7vJXTlflpl/Uq7olXfjARJ3ce1JuA7NWih9Xb74ySZFsmHM jv0nbO13rzdyCumh9b3u2jMeqVOsmCDpr2xbgOIYTXPRLAoUwTUh4k5m9saUNtOg2a82k4n8DLGl ruM0gz4miswUDYHH8VlCIIm0AAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail=_97F12FA5-1134-4DAA-BC5F-4A6218847F27-- From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Fri Mar 30 05:06:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD52921F861F for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21Gz39IRcmgp for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678D221F85FF for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (unknown [83.145.64.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 59A121ECB41C for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:06:08 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:05:59 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120330120520.GA21776@mail.yitter.info> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <20120329223717.81240.qmail@joyce.lan> <6.2.5.6.2.20120329222707.0d809178@resistor.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120329222707.0d809178@resistor.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:06:18 -0000 Hi, On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 11:37:05PM -0700, SM wrote: > > Yes. [...] I do not understand what any of your message means. Could you perhaps offer the analysis in a less analogical way? Thanks, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From warren@kumari.net Fri Mar 30 05:22:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA46321F8611 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:22:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.677 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.922, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s3Mb2U7euuIT for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vimes.kumari.net (vimes.kumari.net [198.186.192.250]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B11021F8602 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-25ae.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-25ae.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.37.174]) by vimes.kumari.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D47921B40ABC; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warren Kumari In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:22:50 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <094AE794-712F-4D76-9236-51AFA661AE17@kumari.net> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:22:53 -0000 On Mar 29, 2012, at 7:30 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the = conversation at the BoF in Paris. > =20 > Please comment, including posting expressions of support. LGTM, support. W > =20 > Thanks, > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds -- Don't be impressed with unintelligible stuff said condescendingly. -- Radia Perlman. From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Fri Mar 30 06:59:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9BE321F86BD for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:59:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.564 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vdR4o+2DQJp3 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nic-naa.net (nic-naa.net [65.99.1.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B255021F86B6 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from limpet.local (cpe-67-255-2-48.twcny.res.rr.com [67.255.2.48]) by nic-naa.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q2UB46Xn047151 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:04:06 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <4F75BC4E.7060508@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:59:42 -0400 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120327 Thunderbird/11.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:59:53 -0000 murray, in response to your note with a draft charter text i've some reservations. 1. "WHOIS has never been internationalized. In the absence of formal specification, ad hoc solutions to signal internationalized registration data have been adopted and deployed. Providing a standards-based solution that scales well could minimize further proliferation of ad hoc solutions. the word "solution" is not appropriate. "specification" is what wg's write (most of the time). the word "could" is a weak promise, when in fact a standards track specification is intended to be made "mandatory to implement" in language affecting the successors in interest to the original ddn nic contract, and possibly adopted by other operators. the definite article "a" presents risk of rat-holing on equivalent choices of specification, and of non-adoption where in fact a sub-linear scaling of variation is the underlying requirement. the adjective "ad hoc" (whether "specifications" or "solutions") does not reflect an engineering awareness of the specifications extant, nor the switching cost to some as yet undefined formal specification. a personal note -- i see no reason to ignore the state of the art for han script or right-to-left scripts or combining scripts by the respective names registries ab initio. 2. "WHOIS also has no data model ..." this para is descriptive of a problem in theory, but the problem in fact is more qualified. the impulse for this (fourth i think) attempt to fix whois is not a generic desire for a standard, universal publication format, but several desires for better tools for actual use cases associated with claims of misuse (or misreporting) of resources. to be slightly informal about this, no one gives a rodent's rear end about the data published on port 43 for the .mil, or .edu or .arpa, or .coop or .museum or .cat or ... name spaces. what we do will enormously reduce the cost of detecting harmful agency if adopted by only the com/net/org/biz/info (cnobi) and a rather small set of iso3166 associated name spaces. the universality or absence of rational scope in para 2 presents risk that the pursuit of useful commonality of formats will not be limited by benefit in fact. 3. "The WHOIS protocol does not offer any differential service ..." i suggest this para be re-written as a requirement for authentication, access, and availability, the standard triad, for better issue integration with the security directorate, as this isn't diffserv-or-qos-in-hosts. 4. "Various attempts to solve ..." for history of problem reasons i'd prefer a recitation of the dates and a key phrase for each of the prior attemtps rather than a history limited to the iris wg's experiences. 5. "In recent years, ARIN and RIPE NCC have ..." fine. i see no reason not to suggest retirement of tcp/43 for stuff/http/tcp/80*, nor the implicit reference to a set of constraints for communications over http. 6. "This Working Group shall determine the general needs of such a service, and standardize a single data framework. ..." i see no necessity in the singular, outside of the set of resources mentioned in #2, supra. "The data shall have one mandatory format ..." i've the same concern. ... 10. "Should the Working Group reach a point where ..." i support this, but i think the freedom to pursue realizable goals is not best limited to a strings-or-integers reserved independence, and this reserved independence should be present within at least one of these subject matter domains, as solving the cnobi++ problem really is more important than solving non-problems. i prefer to see some of the above changes worked into the charter. -e From sm@resistor.net Fri Mar 30 07:34:36 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BEB921F85C9 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:34:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HRVNIoCc2MJz for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CD4721F864B for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2UEYOZT005603; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:34:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1333118069; i=@resistor.net; bh=lbjuRr4CQVu83d0fT18yVN0SFiW31w449jC1JOqixAk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=jMA+uJ8ts82+W4TqTH++7yjv+18IdiDd3BpF+glkPSnpwa++NiVqwC30jI0A59bzo k0+TusKxeIVcH8tbPsK7F9EnUYd2yR2bAbgOEiBjUyrWTGoU6CxieqwhIBLBxA0p6K RURUHvkfxZK/D35mwBK1ZaKYsontMoWX3onh+3UE= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1333118069; i=@resistor.net; bh=lbjuRr4CQVu83d0fT18yVN0SFiW31w449jC1JOqixAk=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=B+KXT3Ex1umm3TgCu1LQE1xCbrUzopqW8LYwOO8mE3mmKp76QYpKS5+k1yZpmazx0 oOW8OAZrtDpiMVu8KDe+1WJKU8n9K8/zWfrOZ79ZbThcS39gRqfBkhzPg0vz+rvkg+ hbH5fUQj2XnMzQp9QLpu4LAXw88V/GqntiLv9ee0= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120330062415.0d59ade8@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:32:21 -0700 To: Andrew Sullivan From: SM In-Reply-To: <20120330120520.GA21776@mail.yitter.info> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <20120329223717.81240.qmail@joyce.lan> <6.2.5.6.2.20120329222707.0d809178@resistor.net> <20120330120520.GA21776@mail.yitter.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:34:37 -0000 Hi Andrew, At 05:05 30-03-2012, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >I do not understand what any of your message means. Could you perhaps >offer the analysis in a less analogical way? There isn't any incentive favoring a question about whether to unify or not to get resolved. I am neither for nor against a grand unification specification. I'll +0 the amended proposed charter. Regards, -sm From andy@hxr.us Fri Mar 30 07:48:08 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD6621F84E4 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:48:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s0gcxJb8SOUv for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com (mail-wi0-f172.google.com [209.85.212.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B60F21F84D7 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:48:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wibhj6 with SMTP id hj6so536897wib.13 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:48:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ek4hE3ZX8+P/oiTyfiPFTMWuAXCSE9wuHnGYrJC0b5M=; b=Ah4M+HESddjjhaMhIAoAyMoAxc5yyP4Y1KN6drcOVzpF+aRbJE+Cg7lscFy7CFnSY3 FT0q+4ucU+5u5/YIly9Antvq1zUROWZg77oR9RzymY2PHTa/z0FmX6txUJHCgqEZDscG 9BmprKaLYfG8w2v3apSWz0+VfwWa+13ACuf+wHxyGiQutx+LeZzmWAJZLsVEU3Wls0Jj 5ih842JNVugSuN0SOwn7ZhAcoW3VX7oF/u2HfT6qvjEfwz/tsh61AiQouglIqyV/8Vtx 8Xgk4Vq6Hsy5+R7mpYcRoGX/+olIXvV2p+TB85Z2AWtiRjb1XgjFn4ycaR3bWHyT0Du/ cp+A== Received: by 10.180.85.35 with SMTP id e3mr7162454wiz.6.1333118886645; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.216.7.239] ([93.158.47.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ea6sm6829258wib.5.2012.03.30.07.48.04 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) From: Andy Newton In-Reply-To: <4F75BC4E.7060508@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:48:04 +0200 Message-Id: <989B71E0-B707-4119-B7B5-E58967AD8210@hxr.us> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <4F75BC4E.7060508@abenaki.wabanaki.net> To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkK5fIqUhebP5oI6ew4qonBMxv3nUNxCRREeTyMLb9bC1pxo7RsCf1FZ2qUwD4CbQiIEkVm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:48:08 -0000 On Mar 30, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Eric Brunner-Williams wrote: > murray, >=20 > in response to your note with a draft charter text i've some = reservations. >=20 > 1. "WHOIS has never been internationalized. In the absence of formal > specification, ad hoc solutions to signal internationalized > registration data have been adopted and deployed. Providing a > standards-based solution that scales well could minimize further > proliferation of ad hoc solutions. >=20 > the word "solution" is not appropriate. "specification" is what wg's > write (most of the time). >=20 Can we please avoid wordsmithing the details of this charter? We are now = on version 7 and continued detailed refinement may only keep us on this = subject instead of moving on to the actual specifications. The request was for objections/comments to the prenuptial agreement. > 10. "Should the Working Group reach a point where ..." >=20 > i support this, but i think the freedom to pursue realizable goals is > not best limited to a strings-or-integers reserved independence, and > this reserved independence should be present within at least one of > these subject matter domains, as solving the cnobi++ problem really is > more important than solving non-problems. As usual, Eric, you challenge my reading comprehension skills. :) -andy= From AMaitland@Commerco.Com Fri Mar 30 09:11:01 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E671F21F85C0 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:11:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.988 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.988 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kcDNY3+ByhVF for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MS1.MailSys.Net (MS1.MailSys.Net [66.135.47.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C138D21F85CF for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:11:00 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=mailsys; d=Commerco.Com; h=received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-fromip:x-fromcountry; b=Bl69B0LzPjU9n8D64DEm59W3OTdi+nVjEI6fHWQOT6zL78rxEkAVFT13jvllOVxiZYb1iA/VPPHtkuqaiWau59ve/0G34ojQLBTMhiFC6FR05Iu76m5Z9CO1mxa21iBRyXGZb4oeUsyx54Gt7RHIDKYto4PemQ1UHMQirXdWhkU= Received: from [71.216.84.59] by MS1.MailSys.Net (ArGoSoft Mail Server .NET v.1.0.8.3) with ESMTP (EHLO [10.240.241.49]) for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:10:58 +0000 Message-ID: <4F75DB11.7070202@Commerco.Com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:10:57 -0600 From: Alan Maitland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> In-Reply-To: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-FromIP: 71.216.84.59 X-FromCountry: US Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:11:02 -0000 On 3/29/2012 11:30 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Attached is the last charter Andy Newton posted, modified as per the > conversation at the BoF in Paris. > > Please comment, including posting expressions of support. > > Thanks, > > -MSK > I support this charter version. Alan Maitland From dblumenthal@pir.org Fri Mar 30 09:46:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24BF21F84D6 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:46:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.891 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.891 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.155, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QsK7TScWA4bH for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com (mail.pir.org [72.44.190.134]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80F0D21F8498 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PIR-MAIL-01.PIR.com ([192.168.27.12]) by pir-mail-01 ([192.168.27.12]) with mapi; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:46:55 -0400 From: Don Blumenthal To: Andy Newton Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:46:55 -0400 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Post-BoF charter Thread-Index: Ac0OhCDuwB42iAZ4RPimDCbjRK9uXgAAnPjw Message-ID: <3371CBBD15D9714482943AD5D5B752760674787100@pir-mail-01> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <4F75BC4E.7060508@abenaki.wabanaki.net> <989B71E0-B707-4119-B7B5-E58967AD8210@hxr.us> In-Reply-To: <989B71E0-B707-4119-B7B5-E58967AD8210@hxr.us> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:46:58 -0000 This version does an excellent job of moving the process along and protecti= ng all Interests. +1 Don From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Fri Mar 30 16:43:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18CDE21F8644 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:43:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kbs8W9BAVVWx for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (mail.yitter.info [208.86.224.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77BC521F85FC for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.yitter.info (unknown [83.145.64.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 913FF1ECB41C for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:43:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 19:43:44 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20120330234343.GC21776@mail.yitter.info> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <20120329223717.81240.qmail@joyce.lan> <6.2.5.6.2.20120329222707.0d809178@resistor.net> <20120330120520.GA21776@mail.yitter.info> <6.2.5.6.2.20120330062415.0d59ade8@resistor.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20120330062415.0d59ade8@resistor.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 23:43:52 -0000 On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 07:32:21AM -0700, SM wrote: > Hi Andrew, > There isn't any incentive favoring a question about whether to unify > or not to get resolved. Oh, I see. I also disagree. The incentive to get it resolved in practice (not as a matter of procedure) is just the desire of the interested parties to use the same protocol. If they don't actually have that desire -- that is, if they cannot agree, which is an empirical matter -- then the resolution is "not unify". A chair (and, frankly, also an AD) in that case has a strong incentive to say, "You guys are getting divorced," unless they're the sort of chair or AD that likes to tolerate never ending, fractious working groups. There is no rule we can propose to solve this latter problem, which is basically a failure of management. And, of course, if they (we) all get their (our) act together and unify in practice, then the resolution is "unify". I do not believe, and have never believed, that WG charters are there as forcing functions for WGs. When one tries that, what almost always happens is that the WG gets rechartered when it can't meet its goals, because there's almost always a sunk cost people can't walk away from. At some point, we have to trust in good leadership to kill off work that isn't going anywhere. That's a matter of judgement and practice, not rules. Best, Andrew "Blue and Brown books forever!" Sullivan -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From sm@resistor.net Fri Mar 30 18:03:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7D921F85FB for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:03:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8uUJ+VkShkfd for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9573221F85F6 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2V13idS017881; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 18:03:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1333155829; i=@resistor.net; bh=L3j7LzXkIOCzlJsuTtZgHtFlv4E4tZi6xoYr5VBSOW8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=lL39xNqiW9TSBHHMqM2QWnQPwvESJycnIgA6V8fyDEZU2vxEq+YXmtWEYJ3cWPc2+ 6o4rd2Kshwfb7aeaeifc57rDRIQwyU12Uv2+M//iWmwX4Xj0N0adaiQKfEf8+yRmul fd2wOa5VBiozNYVm0DNbYxakNgUrMOPGsVZYeCzQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1333155829; i=@resistor.net; bh=L3j7LzXkIOCzlJsuTtZgHtFlv4E4tZi6xoYr5VBSOW8=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=eK3BVEmOQGiOu4fgqdPs+2s7f3wcIiJonX4/yBpaD7A4s7Kf6OXf+28S5DXJxq/1A b8wbr4SV93VlyQDbtoxoeb1n2otoZnc8XTyiSU10BJnFoxvqqXXVn5KZMvI7HBnsZp L1JDe7BhRDce6KR6XWPbqtEyVuk6HQ87OD5C87Ds= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20120330172000.08f67e30@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:30:31 -0700 To: Andrew Sullivan From: SM In-Reply-To: <20120330234343.GC21776@mail.yitter.info> References: <9452079D1A51524AA5749AD23E0039280C151D@exch-mbx901.corp.cloudmark.com> <20120329223717.81240.qmail@joyce.lan> <6.2.5.6.2.20120329222707.0d809178@resistor.net> <20120330120520.GA21776@mail.yitter.info> <6.2.5.6.2.20120330062415.0d59ade8@resistor.net> <20120330234343.GC21776@mail.yitter.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Post-BoF charter X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:03:53 -0000 Hi Andrew, At 16:43 30-03-2012, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >The incentive to get it resolved in practice (not as a matter of >procedure) is just the desire of the interested parties to use the Agreed. >fractious working groups. There is no rule we can propose to solve >this latter problem, which is basically a failure of management. Yes. >I do not believe, and have never believed, that WG charters are there >as forcing functions for WGs. When one tries that, what almost always >happens is that the WG gets rechartered when it can't meet its goals, >because there's almost always a sunk cost people can't walk away from. >At some point, we have to trust in good leadership to kill off work >that isn't going anywhere. That's a matter of judgement and practice, >not rules. Agreed. Regards, -sm