From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 2 06:21:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF1721F9A47 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 06:21:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hi1ukrnR-r08 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 06:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B003021F9D08 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 06:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 5645821369A; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 09:21:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE70721363E; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 09:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.342.3; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 09:21:13 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.180]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 09:21:12 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Byron Ellacott , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] bootstrapping name servers and entities Thread-Index: AQHOdME/ZUJINs8C1k+ayjC0YFInzplO++iAgAJon4A= Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 13:21:12 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8E6450A88B08C547ACB80CA371536CD2@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrapping name servers and entities X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2013 13:21:54 -0000 On 6/30/13 8:34 PM, "Byron Ellacott" wrote: >What's the use case for doing a global lookup on an entity handle? These >handles don't have any significance or meaning outside of the context of >the registry they're created in, whereas domains, IP networks, AS numbers, >and nameservers all do have a life of their own. That's a very good question. Why do we have an entity query at all? Obviously because people put these handles into clients. >An entity handle is most likely to only be seen in the context of a result >from a previous lookup, in which case it would be wise to include the >"self" link for any RDAP response such that the problem of knowing where >that entity handle might be found can be translated to handing around >entity "self" links instead of handles. Agreed. > >(Or make the handle a URI instead of an opaque string). That would be preferable. But the entity handles already exist. Additionally, can't this argument be made for most other object types? > >A global search for an entity by name or other attributes has more of a >use case in my mind, but how to bootstrap for *search* is an even hairier >problem, I think. That's a world of pain I don't think we should attempt to address. -andy From johnl@iecc.com Tue Jul 2 07:52:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19EE421F9EB6 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 07:52:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W0TMSTyeRBW8 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 07:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0B721F9E44 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 07:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 4663 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2013 14:51:59 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 2 Jul 2013 14:51:59 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51d2e90e.xn--30v786c.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=YqvTsQaFBfS91CRhv/ap7+Bz9iaTbgMYj7xWq9xOhRE=; b=DxIvg+IU3yEErmkNMMhKAguI9uLaatlFTmAr+IqfyIYxvE2KM8w9uRV8VnylkJqie/VH1W/U3gRn+kSkhff8L82Wmi0dazy3Iant1xQvTKyHOcvuyPY2ueLxvCCDDw5r/stBlYyCdyzwgImGa0VjV6blPtKlP0ChPw8zXIoXwSBjDQnX/GNOUp4uUBgW5TXVXIQlExqgvQ4NhOgLRlDtmod+6vOyH9Pt8KO16A+dp1qMAm++sSgABheiUCd91qSh DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51d2e90e.xn--30v786c.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=YqvTsQaFBfS91CRhv/ap7+Bz9iaTbgMYj7xWq9xOhRE=; b=UidwIZ2Ci12Exb44ND3lXPQ3frtLyyWVKPOIsUXuovNautLwVvjOQyNU0HTv8tvMTFP/ziXg07e/FnT5KM52j5hhVSl3wGzWNGlnHAjcB7DUBmieO/oHIEuIZlxAWad9m0kuoIERDYAXJXBandkNsyt/Gp0m9auXUvV/F628LBuVzTH5CbrRvq5ykOXSmOY6xCWUel/TqJZ36DgXLgvo0WSfXsapPhYhZxflLTOOZMeIvOsjXzzrLdlM2OzpFujw Date: 2 Jul 2013 14:51:36 -0000 Message-ID: <20130702145136.20910.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrapping name servers and entities X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2013 14:52:06 -0000 >That's a very good question. Why do we have an entity query at all? >Obviously because people put these handles into clients. Yes, but since we seem to agree is that the only place you will get a handle is (perhaps indirectly) from a WHOIS or RDAP response, you send the query back to the same place. There will doubtless be situations where someone finds a handle saved in a web page or something and can't tell where it came from, but I don't see that it's up to us to solve this impossible problem. I agree that putting a link in responses to remind the client to go back to the same place is at worst harmless, and might conceivably be useful if subregistries borrow handles from their parents. R's, John From edainow@afilias.info Tue Jul 2 12:26:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AECB21F9B1B for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 12:26:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kSpj440AB2Kt for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 12:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7574F21F9B1A for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 12:26:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Uu6DD-0005mI-4p for weirds@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2013 19:26:03 +0000 Received: from mail-la0-f42.google.com ([209.85.215.42]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Uu6DD-0007Ia-3q for weirds@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2013 19:26:03 +0000 Received: by mail-la0-f42.google.com with SMTP id eb20so6057903lab.15 for ; Tue, 02 Jul 2013 12:25:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=2MfInbHbRVhmRnl2qxnJakHnz363DW+OmbjFqBKS6+c=; b=CHKZM99DOpjWYYDN9zx+yBcirznGT0w4iBZZNTrRD1KWXth5aucU5jWY9NOIXX594O WPVR7WpBRpVfxBxpLsW/hBH4Y9j6pMR+9YXxF5Ukb6mbASXQu60fWy6Wh4puB1QtZfyW yrJFXSEy3UK7oSEFQObcx2dGy4NDckZCl4TFjSDiKBf9lxxKh2I+47z5d67+Gm4kCcJI 3GakgvQh3CFHPdpxcChHDqK1oQNPzfW2xXRmfVEsMxIEXcPwsM38NxIaSAEtphyOk1Tg x1W7yUXX5IK/xHegZVAntjKFhUhMO08v22O147EA6syGw2j0dal0z0jAbnf5qh0lbSUe kpOQ== X-Received: by 10.152.115.142 with SMTP id jo14mr8142840lab.87.1372793156736; Tue, 02 Jul 2013 12:25:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.115.142 with SMTP id jo14mr8142836lab.87.1372793156641; Tue, 02 Jul 2013 12:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.79.137 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Jul 2013 12:25:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130702145136.20910.qmail@joyce.lan> References: <20130702145136.20910.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 15:25:56 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ernie Dainow To: "weirds@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3504c73b38504e08c508e X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkZ4db7ozTtA+hCJ9NuSdxOHuWP4FIqYSAUNX4bYnDoGKj10DRNtPna1PbbUnD0yfoyWETYCmqiVK/+5uzv2TpIRgkTSo+d27l90V5h4VSYpSK4Qe/3ylk9z/FyHol2HlSK94mh Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrapping name servers and entities X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2013 19:26:09 -0000 --001a11c3504c73b38504e08c508e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 If the recent ICANN proposal for ARDS (Aggregated Registration Data Service) materializes, as a centralized service, it will be straight forward for a client to do lookups by handles and searches across TLD/Number boundaries. For the first release of RDAP, we should defer any attempt to bootstrap such queries across multiple authoritative servers, until such time as this is really required. Section 6 in json-response-04 recommends that all objects contain a link. For a consistent method that clients can rely on to get information for handles, we could consider changing SHOULD to MUST: For every object class in a response, whether the object class is directly representing the response to a query or is embedded in other object classes, servers SHOULD provide a link representing a URI for that object class using the "self" relationship Another approach that might be more useful to clients is to return a link only when there is additional information not already contained in the returned object. For example, a domain object that has an entity containing all available information should not return a link in the entity object, so that the client does not waste time making another request for information it already has. -Ernie On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 10:51 AM, John Levine wrote: > >That's a very good question. Why do we have an entity query at all? > >Obviously because people put these handles into clients. > > Yes, but since we seem to agree is that the only place you will get a > handle is (perhaps indirectly) from a WHOIS or RDAP response, you send > the query back to the same place. There will doubtless be situations > where someone finds a handle saved in a web page or something and > can't tell where it came from, but I don't see that it's up to us to > solve this impossible problem. > > I agree that putting a link in responses to remind the client to go > back to the same place is at worst harmless, and might conceivably > be useful if subregistries borrow handles from their parents. > > R's, > John > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > --001a11c3504c73b38504e08c508e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If the recent ICANN proposal for ARDS (Aggregated Reg= istration Data Service) materializes, as a centralized service, it will be = straight forward for a client to do lookups by handles and searches across = TLD/Number boundaries. For the first release of RDAP, we should defer any a= ttempt to bootstrap such queries across multiple authoritative servers, unt= il such time as this is really required.

Section 6 in json-response-04 recommends that all objec= ts contain a link. For a consistent method that clients can rely on to get = information for handles, we could consider changing SHOULD to MUST:
=A0 =A0For every object class in a response, whether the
=A0= =A0object class is directly representing the response to a query or is
=A0 =A0embedded in other object classes, servers SHOULD provide a li= nk
=A0 =A0representing a URI for that object class using the "self&q= uot;
=A0 =A0relationship

Another approac= h that might be more useful to clients is to return a link only when there = is additional information not already contained in the returned object. For= example, a domain object that has an entity containing all available infor= mation should not return a link in the entity object, so that the client do= es not waste time making another request for information it already has.

-Ernie



On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Jo= hn Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>That's a very good= question. Why do we have an entity query at all?
>Obviously because people put these handles into clients.

Yes, but since we seem to agree is that the only place you will get a=
handle is (perhaps indirectly) from a WHOIS or RDAP response, you send
the query back to the same place. =A0There will doubtless be situations
where someone finds a handle saved in a web page or something and
can't tell where it came from, but I don't see that it's up to = us to
solve this impossible problem.

I agree that putting a link in responses to remind the client to go
back to the same place is at worst harmless, and might conceivably
be useful if subregistries borrow handles from their parents.

R's,
John
___________________________________= ____________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds

--001a11c3504c73b38504e08c508e-- From olaf@NLnetLabs.nl Wed Jul 3 08:05:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78FBF11E8181 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:05:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 72byL3leCP9f for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from open.nlnetlabs.nl (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9899611E817E for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:7211:24ff:fe8c:627a] ([IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1:7211:24ff:fe8c:627a]) (authenticated bits=0) by open.nlnetlabs.nl (8.14.7/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r63F5gRC020912 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 17:05:43 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from olaf@NLnetLabs.nl) Authentication-Results: open.nlnetlabs.nl; dmarc=none header.from=NLnetLabs.nl DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.8.2 open.nlnetlabs.nl r63F5gRC020912 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nlnetlabs.nl; s=default; t=1372863944; bh=EoWv4IOD9eaTNdOq67X9LkvCEyEK0cKKzKOr1RCU/GQ=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:References:To; b=YJwdyQzsC9m00qvsgIYOS5UY22zQ7RK+YB9KwWDU84MdrAeTgZ1WTqyVKPzmknB8A RBIR/B8zF+T+8Th7LDLHmmr+k9dr4Vhb65pHLjLb0bmcl/s268w5yBvH33gnaX9HlS gRe+ZNiY3xtosT88tMyakFTl+KiRTnRrnU+PTuIM= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Olaf Kolkman In-Reply-To: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 17:05:42 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> To: "weirds@ietf.org Group" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (open.nlnetlabs.nl [IPv6:2001:7b8:206:1::1]); Wed, 03 Jul 2013 17:05:43 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 15:05:47 -0000 Folk, One more week to go, and no feedback yet. In order to progress this document we need to have a reasonable sense of = broad review. It helps if you go on record that you reviewed the draft = and do not have any issues. --Olaf On Jun 25, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote: >=20 > Colleagues, >=20 > It's time for a WGLC for de rdap-query document. We'll put the Last = call up for two weeks, ending July 10. >=20 > The document can be found at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 >=20 >=20 > I will be the shepherd for this document. Which in this case brings a = small logistical problem. When the WGLC terminates I will be on = vacation, and not resurface before Berlin. That said, please send in = your comments before July 10 so that editors can process your feedback. >=20 >=20 > --Olaf >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From carlosm3011@gmail.com Wed Jul 3 08:17:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A71311E81CF for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:17:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Up-pDxDwVRos for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ye0-x233.google.com (mail-ye0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c04::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D726711E81BA for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ye0-f179.google.com with SMTP id r3so65824yen.10 for ; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 08:16:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ou9JcS3qlF/EEBcKnZfyI0rfVfdMavFLN8R+Fde1QGA=; b=IcWokNbmxaJJicwm2HKkZMhiT1+E1PduuD5T4o8i1g9fqolbRLPFYLxOVbH+pCFAZA YcJ0Vq5Q6Lz06AkU0OD9oyn8P69FjpDsUmkR0Lj8hg4Nkx2dEqrQ0J8fTxrl9vKspQQB SkZ0uvxqmr4V3hdorzldXp40gDtCwLNEXg7sRki+dP0Z0vdGT0K9fRfC/aB1snNTjR4b SI+Z2AUVrUmoY9f/2IoZ9D2aExYRiLbg6A9xEIgUdVXPL76rlXHIWidzaPdkNBLGiFSJ YFdyG8BsSySDWRgBd0ghoxjzvb/F1Oz9ON6+owS+bxkNA9QAHLzk7tMEeCFip3gzOT8T ehCg== X-Received: by 10.236.201.79 with SMTP id a55mr503247yho.33.1372864616396; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 08:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 87-7-200.lacnic.net.uy ([2001:13c7:7001:7000:95b5:9dad:8369:71e3]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id o32sm46868350yhi.5.2013.07.03.08.16.53 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Jul 2013 08:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51D44063.2000407@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:16:51 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> In-Reply-To: <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 15:17:00 -0000 I don't have issues with the document as is. cheers, ~Carlos On 7/3/13 12:05 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote: > > Folk, > > One more week to go, and no feedback yet. > > In order to progress this document we need to have a reasonable sense of broad review. It helps if you go on record that you reviewed the draft and do not have any issues. > > --Olaf > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote: > >> >> Colleagues, >> >> It's time for a WGLC for de rdap-query document. We'll put the Last call up for two weeks, ending July 10. >> >> The document can be found at: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 >> >> >> I will be the shepherd for this document. Which in this case brings a small logistical problem. When the WGLC terminates I will be on vacation, and not resurface before Berlin. That said, please send in your comments before July 10 so that editors can process your feedback. >> >> >> --Olaf >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Wed Jul 3 08:37:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B455211E81F7 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:37:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LtXZa8iEUrqM for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D1511E81EA for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 08:37:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h227.viagenie.ca (h227.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.227]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2D6FC4758A; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 11:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 11:37:24 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7ACFEBF0-A253-48D7-AB5E-73AE91DBC3AB@viagenie.ca> References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> To: Olaf Kolkman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 15:37:28 -0000 While doing the test plan and scripts, my colleague Jean-Philippe has = already discovered a few issues, essentially under specified behaviors. = We may find others as we test the current implementations. My = suggestion: delay the end of the wglc until end of IETF week in Berlin, = when we would have a first interop testing event done that may raise up = additional findings to improve the spec. Marc. Le 2013-07-03 =E0 11:05, Olaf Kolkman a =E9crit : >=20 > Folk, >=20 > One more week to go, and no feedback yet. >=20 > In order to progress this document we need to have a reasonable sense = of broad review. It helps if you go on record that you reviewed the = draft and do not have any issues. >=20 > --Olaf >=20 >=20 > On Jun 25, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Olaf Kolkman wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> Colleagues, >>=20 >> It's time for a WGLC for de rdap-query document. We'll put the Last = call up for two weeks, ending July 10. >>=20 >> The document can be found at: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 >>=20 >>=20 >> I will be the shepherd for this document. Which in this case brings a = small logistical problem. When the WGLC terminates I will be on = vacation, and not resurface before Berlin. That said, please send in = your comments before July 10 so that editors can process your feedback. >>=20 >>=20 >> --Olaf >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From edainow@afilias.info Wed Jul 3 09:10:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96D2121F9D91 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 09:10:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LubOSsDQ3Jdv for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 09:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BD8E21F9D8D for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 09:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UuPdi-0000pJ-55 for weirds@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 16:10:42 +0000 Received: from mail-ie0-f169.google.com ([209.85.223.169]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UuPdi-0007Ev-4p for weirds@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 16:10:42 +0000 Received: by mail-ie0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 10so844612ied.14 for ; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 09:10:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=u3v6YdAnhQCx2Vq+TXvux4HOS4Vp3kyaPeBeXTrlwfM=; b=kGmz7y2y1tuhRBTMAkhTw0A00BsSiFSPWnOmvRZz9mUWRPB4uTMeuGjxV6ejxh1CrH c9O50rdU5BtCV1qc2ZfYQn46OOBAZbRy2ATCOf3JQVDAQKVQ1+OS7We56oXFujV1BmXX a46AgXUpBM8Tw2+Trpnw4dQfXS5+FmYSbsljKufXzLN+E8dtt6G6XrNbIYjLzfyRWaB8 XPZ9wZGR4h2sLMJsezqRwNS3P085mTyHrdd5noWrtxuAXPNTZBV7TNatgHb/mAqM5YpY wIOYf6yBjRh+wP0TN9B623JjGkenztGN1zyObjyxMkFHJ5AxrAeC5SDEphqajJBRi+iB fXZQ== X-Received: by 10.50.130.50 with SMTP id ob18mr24921046igb.34.1372867837042; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 09:10:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.130.50 with SMTP id ob18mr24921041igb.34.1372867836932; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 09:10:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.10.68.31] (tor-gateway.afilias.info. [199.15.87.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ri10sm24399890igc.1.2013.07.03.09.10.34 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Jul 2013 09:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51D44CF5.4040300@afilias.info> Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:10:29 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "weirds@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk2tIPbJD5xu5TeduX7CCC3Ctc7pexlBhdshIejk7bbR1wt+KKHzGIpLsoVozVG9v6fAZugYvfhQHnMr7tYkkV19YfU1NSUBtiSB/WOm4l1EtCvqL1lp+a8NcqcsweEpKvt4vGD Subject: [weirds] comments on draft-ietf-weirds-json-response-04 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 16:10:49 -0000 p.24 What is [1] in idnTable -- the name of the IDN table of codepoints, such as one listed with the IANA (see IDN tables [1]). 9.1 Status Add "associated" (as indicated in log on p.69 - Added associated to the list of status values.) Add "renew prohibited" Correct spelling of "transfer prohibited" p.29 "status" : [ "locked", "transferProhibited" ], p.62 "status" : [ "locked", "transfer Prohibited" ], 9.3 Roles Can we add "notifications" For an example, see whois trip.asia p.40 and 61 To be consistent with other examples of links in entity objects, change "rel":"alternate" to "rel":"self" Appendixes These sections contain a lot of information that is easily missed. Some important concepts about entities are only covered in Appendix A and C. It might be more streamlined to merge and integrate them into Section 6.1 "The Entity Object Class". At least provide a reference from 6.1 to Appendix A and C. -Ernie From edainow@afilias.info Wed Jul 3 12:57:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD9511E8224 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 12:57:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.653 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.653 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.346, BAYES_00=-2.599, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IfbNqlsH6cwV for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 12:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9372511E8221 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 12:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UuTBC-0000hl-5i for weirds@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 19:57:30 +0000 Received: from mail-ie0-f180.google.com ([209.85.223.180]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UuTBC-0000XH-5P for weirds@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 19:57:30 +0000 Received: by mail-ie0-f180.google.com with SMTP id f4so1395992iea.25 for ; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:57:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=U9/MXKd7Ya3CaqX2M8jwO2pTXzEg+xHjz6RGn98vQCQ=; b=SoqEwDwQ+RTFUYiaF3+GWDBCuThBlo1W7RgS2Ff4ymbi8DAj753TYmgxy+xe/5huev yOKNdsfxrrHlvXbQQSPgazhABsHmKjtDCAsKbRS0W7dfG0BdYorFto6Sv0oL4K5Wtr4A vYpvuv15Hz1A0SKvr8OR9qjgutetqKNd95hfTs7SR+lHeZBWBt8fudmd207KCRCLPcIy Ujau1sRvSu1IHRSm+2JkVMRv6obgfj40F3igWZwSxxQCi/929LQoCMa2hLMwixDl/NnP EjrMCKunuzwOQB6oiF41Qk6AwVzUQSMf53WfHpAWlbnvNJRKtnGAIJjhu8+SFYO12CBA QvEw== X-Received: by 10.50.225.67 with SMTP id ri3mr25397084igc.35.1372881445275; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:57:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.225.67 with SMTP id ri3mr25397079igc.35.1372881445214; Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.10.68.31] (tor-gateway.afilias.info. [199.15.87.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id n5sm25246705igv.5.2013.07.03.12.57.23 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51D48222.5030407@afilias.info> Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 15:57:22 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> <7ACFEBF0-A253-48D7-AB5E-73AE91DBC3AB@viagenie.ca> In-Reply-To: <7ACFEBF0-A253-48D7-AB5E-73AE91DBC3AB@viagenie.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl83FRVeZG/tU0uV2RZSCXceiGx7COlMg7n4KZvZAiHkvBlo2kwtDGgITpY4KfYSAuJrenBdpiAFFZFLd/cZ+f0pM1ncyol59cJ7KC0pnN9OcTP0ZSf8G+Yt94ZaoVyKjWElYOh Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 19:57:37 -0000 Comments on this draft. p.2 enable lookups of: o registrars by name, and o entities (such as contacts) by identifier But p.6 specifies the Entity Path Segment Specification as Syntax: entity/ There is no direct way to look up registrars by name. A server that receives an entity request does not know if the parameter is a handle or a name. It can attempt a handle lookup and if it fails try a name lookup. It would be much better to have a separate request to look up a registrar (or entity) by name. p.2 It is envisioned that other documents will describe these entities --Update with reference to draft-ietf-weirds-json-response p.3 HTTP contains mechanisms for servers to authenticate ... --Update with reference to draft-ietf-weirds-using-http and draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-sec p.3 The uniform patterns start with a base URL ... --Some proposals for bootstrapping will not support this. Should Last Call on this document be deferred until the decisions on bootstrapping have been made? p.4 Queries for information regarding autonomous system number registrations are of the form /autnum/XXX/... where XXX is an asplain --Last phrase reads as a typo to those not familiar with the term. Change to: where XXX is an "asplain" p.5 and 6 If the client sends the server an IDN in U-label format, servers that support IDNs MUST convert the IDN into A-label format and perform IDNA processing as specified in RFC 5891 [RFC5891] --RFC5891 specifies two slightly different processes (Section 3.1): Labels being registered MUST conform to the requirements of Section 4. Labels being looked up and the lookup process MUST conform to the requirements of Section 5. Can this reference be more explicit to section 4 or 5. p.7 ... the process described in Section TBD of "Using HTTP for RESTful Whois Services by Internet Registries" Update to ... the process described in Section 6 of "HTTP usage in the Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP)" p.10 Appendix A. seems like an interim note, should it be in a published RFC? -Ernie From internet-drafts@ietf.org Wed Jul 3 13:40:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4976F21F9CDF; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 13:40:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.489 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.489 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id akeHC3pa6n4y; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 13:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A1AA21F9CDE; Wed, 3 Jul 2013 13:40:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.51.p2 Message-ID: <20130703204031.6997.16973.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 13:40:31 -0700 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-ietf-weirds-using-http-07.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2013 20:40:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Web Extensible Internet Registration Data= Service Working Group of the IETF. Title : HTTP usage in the Registration Data Access Protocol (RDA= P) Author(s) : Andrew Lee Newton Byron J. Ellacott Ning Kong Filename : draft-ietf-weirds-using-http-07.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2013-07-03 Abstract: This document is one of a collection that together describe the Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP). It describes how RDAP is transported using the Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-weirds-using-http There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-weirds-using-http-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-weirds-using-http-07 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Thu Jul 4 10:22:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC8B21F9E58 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 10:22:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L7pANdJ-QkSd for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 10:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AA7521F9E4B for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 10:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h115.viagenie.ca (h115.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.115]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CE424758B for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 13:22:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Blanchet Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EDEE48F7-FC07-4BD4-9C36-B9134057F0D2" Message-Id: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 13:22:46 -0400 To: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2013 17:22:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EDEE48F7-FC07-4BD4-9C36-B9134057F0D2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, to help foster and converge the discussion on the bootstrap solution, I = started a list of differentiating requirements for bootstrapping. I then = asked John Levine, Andy Newton, Arturo Servin and Ernie Dainow to = provide comments. This list below is the result of this discussion. All = bad ideas are mine, all good ideas are theirs. This is NOT the list of requirements. It is a list of possible = requirements that would help compare various solutions and to = (hopefully) help to converge.=20 I intend to present during Berlin meeting compare the various solutions = by using that list. =20 Regards, Marc. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Weirds Bootstrapping Possible functional requirements: 1) require use of https on every request 2) specify per registry which of http/https is to be used by clients 3) provide delegation below the tld 4) same solution for both names and numbers 5) don't route all traffic through one point of attack (which is not the = same as one point of failure) 6) base URL may have a prepended path (i.e. = http://domain/my/own/path/query) 7) if DNS is used, only terminating DNS RR can be used (i.e. no CNAME, = SRV, NAPTR Possible design choices: 20) does the client have a cache of "servers" to start with? 21) if a cache, how/when does it refresh the data? --Apple-Mail=_EDEE48F7-FC07-4BD4-9C36-B9134057F0D2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Possible functional = requirements:
1) require use of https on every = request
2) specify per registry which of http/https is to be = used by clients
3) provide delegation below the tld
4) same solution for = both names and numbers
5) don't route all traffic through one point of attack = (which is not the same as one point of failure)
6) base URL may have a = prepended path (i.e. http://domain/my/own/path/query)


= --Apple-Mail=_EDEE48F7-FC07-4BD4-9C36-B9134057F0D2-- From carlosm3011@gmail.com Thu Jul 4 12:39:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001C511E819C for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:39:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.954 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.647, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xvwD1U93TwtH for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x234.google.com (mail-la0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE2E11E819D for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f52.google.com with SMTP id fo12so1503838lab.39 for ; Thu, 04 Jul 2013 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:cc:content-type; bh=SGofZXohvxhjTPBVRDpCHPnf0zbOu+nAd8sk2J1z9oY=; b=r0hDqpPQLAouK7CjrlrGHcdSW6BDjU+P6gB1nGB+aJ61sFarKAX3u4PTL1fF6TUjKk mei7Hcw0whYfOxFfe24fCOcX5U6CgqQGS+RiT42HqyTwbERhBpT88fqmKfgiGJWf/qlG kTGHP5T0YhC2IeZuZln8mA5GLUp4uiSW6ybL8nMx4ty4iGjgiSco/yBTnLGl9IaBCPPl rnn2oX3mbtZmQsGxz0OiLejbaDII82P9yHUvpEreppnoEHC97RYCjX0z0Zu83qxDZxBa bIEf0NNuFX+NDIViiGUk6yPw/qlSdo3iEwQL3XC4gVAWDbSUdt069enlhjwk6nhmWqQ5 UL0Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.146.33 with SMTP id sz1mr4264397lbb.47.1372966792638; Thu, 04 Jul 2013 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.205.70 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 16:39:52 -0300 Message-ID: From: Carlos Martinez-Cagnazzo Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3441d0f6b7e604e0b4bdf1 Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: carlos@lacnic.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2013 19:39:55 -0000 --047d7b3441d0f6b7e604e0b4bdf1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 When discussing bootstrapping and related topics (redirects) some of us bring up some perceived constraints and we use them to force the discussion in one direction or another. I believe that it would be great to add to the presentation and for the WG to review certain hypothesis that have been brought forward a few times. I also believe we should openly discuss them and note whether we feel they are actual constraints or limitations or not. Here is my list, yours may vary. Feel free to add. - the 'lazy client programmer' hypothesis, take #1: Clients mostly won't bootstrap regardless of the proposed method and will hit the first RDAP server that comes to their mind with a hammer. - the 'lazy client programmer', take #1, soft version: Clients will bootstrap if we provide a simple enough mechanism - the 'lazy client programmer' take #2: Clients won't cache anything and will bootstrap over and over again and will repeat queries over and over again even when queried for the same object multiple times - the need for supporting Javascript-only clients: Should we consider this a hard constraint on bootstrapping or can we accept that JS-only clients may use the help of a friendly server ? Having these matters settled will, IMO, be helpful for framing future discussions. I was actually thinking on creating a SurveyMonkey for them :) Looking forward to Berlin! ~Carlos On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Marc Blanchet wrote: > Hello, > to help foster and converge the discussion on the bootstrap solution, I > started a list of differentiating requirements for bootstrapping. I then > asked John Levine, Andy Newton, Arturo Servin and Ernie Dainow to provide > comments. This list below is the result of this discussion. All bad ideas > are mine, all good ideas are theirs. > > This is NOT the list of requirements. It is a list of possible > requirements that would help compare various solutions and to (hopefully) > help to converge. > > I intend to present during Berlin meeting compare the various solutions by > using that list. > > Regards, Marc. > > ====== > Weirds Bootstrapping > > Possible functional requirements: > 1) require use of https on every request > 2) specify per registry which of http/https is to be used by clients > 3) provide delegation below the tld > 4) same solution for both names and numbers > 5) don't route all traffic through one point of attack (which is not the > same as one point of failure) > 6) base URL may have a prepended path (i.e. > http://domain/my/own/path/query) > 7) if DNS is used, only terminating DNS RR can be used (i.e. no CNAME, > SRV, NAPTR > > Possible design choices: > 20) does the client have a cache of "servers" to start with? > 21) if a cache, how/when does it refresh the data? > > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > -- -- ========================= Carlos M. Martinez-Cagnazzo http://cagnazzo.name ========================= --047d7b3441d0f6b7e604e0b4bdf1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
When discussing bootstrapping and related topic= s (redirects) some of us bring up some perceived constraints and we use the= m to force the discussion in one direction or another.

I believe that it would be great to add to the presentation and = for the WG to review certain hypothesis that have been brought forward a fe= w times. I also believe we should openly discuss them and note whether we f= eel they are actual constraints or limitations or not.

Here is my list, yours may vary. Feel free = to add.

- the 'lazy client programmer= 9; hypothesis, take #1: Clients mostly won't bootstrap regardless of th= e proposed method and will hit the first RDAP server that comes to their mi= nd with a hammer.

- the 'lazy client programmer', tak= e #1, soft version: Clients will bootstrap if we provide a simple enough me= chanism=A0

- the 'lazy client prog= rammer' take #2: Clients won't cache anything and will bootstrap ov= er and over again and will repeat queries over and over again even when que= ried for the same object multiple times=A0

- the need for supporting Javascript-only c= lients: Should we consider this a hard constraint on bootstrapping or can w= e accept that JS-only clients may use the help of a friendly server ?=A0

Having these matters settled will, IMO, be = helpful for framing future discussions. I was actually thinking on creating= a SurveyMonkey for them :)

Looking fo= rward to Berlin!

~Carlos


On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Marc = Blanchet <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca> wrote:
Hello,=A0to help foster and converge the discussion on the bootstrap solution,= I started a list of differentiating requirements for bootstrapping. I then= asked John Levine, Andy Newton, Arturo Servin and Ernie Dainow to provide = comments. This list below is the result of this discussion. All bad ideas a= re mine, all good ideas are theirs.

This is NOT the list of requirements. It is a list of p= ossible requirements that would help compare various solutions and to (hope= fully) help to converge.=A0

I intend to present du= ring Berlin meeting compare the various solutions by using that list. =A0

Regards, Marc.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D
Weirds Bootstrapping

Possible funct= ional requirements:
1) require use of https o= n every request
2) specify per registry which of http/https is to be used by clients
3) provide delegation bel= ow the tld
4)= same solution for both names and numbers
5) don't route all traffic through one poi= nt of attack (which is not the same as one point of failure)
6) base URL may have a pr= epended path (i.e. http://domain/my/own/path/query)
7) if DNS is used, only terminating DNS RR can be u= sed (i.e. no CNAME, SRV, NAPTR

Possible design choices:
20) does the client have = a cache of "servers" to start with?
21) if a cache, how/when does it refresh t= he data?


_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds




--
--
= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
Carlos M. Martinez-Cagnazzo
http://cagnazzo.name
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
--047d7b3441d0f6b7e604e0b4bdf1-- From johnl@iecc.com Thu Jul 4 15:11:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED27811E81F9 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 15:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.742 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.742 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.457, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ju2OpuQxa9-0 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 15:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9627A11E81E4 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2013 15:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 97913 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2013 22:11:29 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 4 Jul 2013 22:11:29 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51d5f311.xn--btvx9d.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=06e1ZCFH+masUny3LdiVByKT7lPznfMgLmrFTXxvnug=; b=t052S07mELAjmqHSZOBtvmlmI7ayNFOcG+zeFqEJ89ZBiVwAB6cbxaH+R8TD/rHq0SNMC2SWjBZ8EL6OjszeKxjaB11SwMEt/hdOeyMSwv+J5Slh7+cYcrHSQmZqAHQ2hUoVgvbtcemx1Ca/LQm3ZAOHX6VIjgXLjhaBRktN4kGRrUDXX8drtI2Avsmaeee2eJkEhPZ0Cspw5OxuGaMLSEvdzJ9v9pOqLwm51Fy62bKwleOkJPiLck1vXKYyVG2U DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51d5f311.xn--btvx9d.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=06e1ZCFH+masUny3LdiVByKT7lPznfMgLmrFTXxvnug=; b=TC8u5w5JBfQCH2AGbb4u1pJj0n4fYmttOXiPeH9ebiOosdYIVRcYumdtXlhzgwLKDKPyw8j0oRWNVP5Nn/uADRWYc4FLDn7mn4zCDHVTKhUZgXLH1adMt3qbuNel7Yx3RFVSufENHI1ogb/F9rDMsEfZ/Ckn3kSvWDcZUQ95LlcyMaWq7Dwos28519rnaMKes+sWbWed6+7X9d5MhUAO2y359W/iFZEFVxpvreR0PTy++7kjWANFOo8mTP+ENB+x Date: 4 Jul 2013 22:11:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20130704221107.17821.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <51D48222.5030407@afilias.info> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2013 22:11:35 -0000 >p.3 The uniform patterns start with a base URL ... >--Some proposals for bootstrapping will not support this. Should Last >Call on this document be deferred until the decisions on bootstrapping >have been made? I was going to suggest taking out the bit about base URLs. They add no function, since anything you can do with a base URL you can do just as well with a virtual domain, and they make the clients more complex. >p.4 Queries for information regarding autonomous system number >registrations are of the form /autnum/XXX/... where XXX is an asplain >--Last phrase reads as a typo to those not familiar with the term. >Change to: >where XXX is an "asplain" How about just "is a decimal number" since that's what an asplain is, and refer to RFC 5396. The asplain terminology exists only to contrast with other ASN formats that nobody uses, so I don't see any need to import it here. >p.10 Appendix A. seems like an interim note, should it be in a published >RFC? I think it's useful to answer the frequent questions about where are the search patterns. R's, John From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Fri Jul 5 08:17:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E8711E811E for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 08:17:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OcaX-77bkei0 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 08:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4140511E82C9 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 08:17:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h115.viagenie.ca (h115.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.115]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 819554048D; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 11:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: <20130704221107.17821.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 11:17:55 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <90CDE1CD-CA40-4439-8782-B43642F494D7@viagenie.ca> References: <20130704221107.17821.qmail@joyce.lan> To: "John Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 15:17:58 -0000 Le 2013-07-04 =E0 18:11, "John Levine" a =E9crit : >> p.4 Queries for information regarding autonomous system number=20 >> registrations are of the form /autnum/XXX/... where XXX is an asplain >> --Last phrase reads as a typo to those not familiar with the term.=20 >> Change to: >> where XXX is an "asplain" >=20 > How about just "is a decimal number" since that's what an asplain is, > and refer to RFC 5396. The asplain terminology exists only to > contrast with other ASN formats that nobody uses, so I don't see any > need to import it here. I disagree. I think it is the right approach to refer to the appropriate = RFC that describes the formats in use for ASN.=20 Marc. From johnl@iecc.com Fri Jul 5 14:09:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1995B21F9F48 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 14:09:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.812 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.812 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.386, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zu7hLa4u-QT2 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 14:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF6121F9DEC for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 14:09:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 98573 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2013 21:09:04 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 5 Jul 2013 21:09:04 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51d735f0.xn--btvx9d.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=+vWvE12sX7BE1tuLmqA+/sqG9xKHaQVxqef994c5flM=; b=vz0jwOijK2kdsURHlmsFRlZxDgwRSneTuQ3d20H0JVKDxTQpubhXcRGbOhRJ0dE5MsB19lvw4LFnXzMLaFQs4TRwN7iRLHDXkSIO83TfPP7P+wJTp/8CRtUgKHW4dr3FSy1uRbUVNUEX3YuVS4ot80Z0s0Kwd+Z7bZ3fbXTOPyAsjV26WHn+Mu8LpDtQkGN8l34U3vbTObI+jsui9amSan/5//pr6qr875e0WISqYJvzIj6ZWDBtL9l+66bxz6XM DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51d735f0.xn--btvx9d.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=+vWvE12sX7BE1tuLmqA+/sqG9xKHaQVxqef994c5flM=; b=aSn/iiEwv8aRiVwEOI0JM2eY4whLjFcbLnKaEBaIL3z2BgjpoDD7dTHBlQjnwTvIeRRKY8llkZUEIzZ427HxccnBXXmjhuYa8MUjq8zozlyK3kmE0Z7hAhQ5INkkQeDCLAd+1TRbUNM8FVrbh6vNHUtankuFmX69Pss2vnYgc3HkFydiqrrR4xVls5xkFpMUk5hG3Q84Mm0xm09xNRii1+SFVhdULPOvLl1opXWs0Qa3DaP8rLmlynSh8t+vaRGn Date: 5 Jul 2013 21:08:41 -0000 Message-ID: <20130705210841.29287.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <90CDE1CD-CA40-4439-8782-B43642F494D7@viagenie.ca> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 21:09:09 -0000 >>> Change to: >>> where XXX is an "asplain" >> >> How about just "is a decimal number" since that's what an asplain is, >> and refer to RFC 5396. The asplain terminology exists only to >> contrast with other ASN formats that nobody uses, so I don't see any >> need to import it here. > >I disagree. I think it is the right approach to refer to the appropriate RFC that describes the formats in use for ASN. OK, then say both. It seems cruel to send people running over to anothe RFC just to find that an argument is a decimal number. Still want to remove the URL prefixes though, since they are an actual complexity issue. From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Fri Jul 5 17:56:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B992411E8100 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 17:56:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l4qbdhRa2Jxi for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 17:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D70311E80FE for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 17:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A687B47120; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 20:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: <20130705210841.29287.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 20:56:22 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20130705210841.29287.qmail@joyce.lan> To: "John Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2013 00:56:24 -0000 Le 2013-07-05 =E0 17:08, "John Levine" a =E9crit : >>>> Change to: >>>> where XXX is an "asplain" >>>=20 >>> How about just "is a decimal number" since that's what an asplain = is, >>> and refer to RFC 5396. The asplain terminology exists only to >>> contrast with other ASN formats that nobody uses, so I don't see any >>> need to import it here. >>=20 >> I disagree. I think it is the right approach to refer to the = appropriate RFC that describes the formats in use for ASN.=20 >=20 > OK, then say both. It seems cruel to send people running over to > anothe RFC just to find that an argument is a decimal number. I disagree. The referenced RFC is pretty short, so no pain to read it. = And for anyone who cares about ASN, there are various formats and by = giving the reference, we are sure that there is no ambiguity. We don't = want to redefine something where it is defined somewhere else. Marc. >=20 > Still want to remove the URL prefixes though, since they are an actual = complexity issue. From aservin@lacnic.net Mon Jul 8 04:49:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6A721F9ED7 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 04:49:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.399 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HOST_EQ_DIALUP=0.862, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8iWnlmlnP4TF for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 04:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7750F21F9EDB for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 04:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local (r186-48-218-121.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy [186.48.218.121]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1C5308469 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 08:49:27 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <51DAA75A.7090904@lacnic.net> Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2013 08:49:46 -0300 From: Arturo Servin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <20130705210841.29287.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2013 11:49:59 -0000 How about: "where XXX is a decimal number as defined in RFC5396" /as On 7/5/13 9:56 PM, Marc Blanchet wrote: > Le 2013-07-05 à 17:08, "John Levine" a écrit : > >>>>> Change to: >>>>> where XXX is an "asplain" >>>> How about just "is a decimal number" since that's what an asplain is, >>>> and refer to RFC 5396. The asplain terminology exists only to >>>> contrast with other ASN formats that nobody uses, so I don't see any >>>> need to import it here. >>> I disagree. I think it is the right approach to refer to the appropriate RFC that describes the formats in use for ASN. >> OK, then say both. It seems cruel to send people running over to >> anothe RFC just to find that an argument is a decimal number. > I disagree. The referenced RFC is pretty short, so no pain to read it. And for anyone who cares about ASN, there are various formats and by giving the reference, we are sure that there is no ambiguity. We don't want to redefine something where it is defined somewhere else. > > Marc. > >> Still want to remove the URL prefixes though, since they are an actual complexity issue. > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From shollenbeck@verisign.com Mon Jul 8 06:10:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F3D21F9974 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 06:10:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dHHONqNc8IHj for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 06:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og117.obsmtp.com (exprod6og117.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.39]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687E321F995F for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 06:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob117.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUdq6Kq4FYs0NGl7TivFM3b/2uorW446T@postini.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2013 06:10:07 PDT Received: from BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexchm01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.255]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r68D9wRi008567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Jul 2013 09:09:58 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 09:09:58 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Arturo Servin , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOcaDipF1J5KwVBUOVGoSoTbZSl5lTXV4AgAAI2wCAAEijAIABt7OAgAEe44CAAGIAgIAAP54AgAPbOAD//9KcgA== Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 13:09:58 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE5A91@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <20130705210841.29287.qmail@joyce.lan> <51DAA75A.7090904@lacnic.net> In-Reply-To: <51DAA75A.7090904@lacnic.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2013 13:10:14 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Arturo Servin > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 7:50 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 >=20 >=20 >=20 > How about: >=20 > "where XXX is a decimal number as defined in RFC5396" I like Ernie's suggestion to put asplain in quotes ('where XXX is an "aspla= in" autonomous system number [RFC5396]'). That makes it clear that we're ta= lking about a very specific data type identified in 5396. Scott From shollenbeck@verisign.com Mon Jul 8 06:17:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531B621F9BC3 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 06:17:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8oNIGXUv2wi8 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 06:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og101.obsmtp.com (exprod6og101.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9325021F8947 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 06:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob101.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUdq7xjbv+cMDXLNdWeTUqx7HOm1hJV2J@postini.com; Mon, 08 Jul 2013 06:17:15 PDT Received: from BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexchm01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.255]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r68DGrdp008799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Jul 2013 09:16:53 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Mon, 8 Jul 2013 09:16:53 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Ernie Dainow Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOcaDipF1J5KwVBUOVGoSoTbZSl5lTXV4AgAAI2wCAAEijAIAHH+tQ Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 13:16:53 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE5AD4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> <7ACFEBF0-A253-48D7-AB5E-73AE91DBC3AB@viagenie.ca> <51D48222.5030407@afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <51D48222.5030407@afilias.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2013 13:17:30 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Ernie Dainow > Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 3:57 PM > Cc: weirds@ietf.org Group > Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 >=20 > Comments on this draft. >=20 > p.2 enable lookups of: > o registrars by name, and > o entities (such as contacts) by identifier > But p.6 specifies the Entity Path Segment Specification as > Syntax: entity/ > There is no direct way to look up registrars by name. A server that > receives an entity request does not know if the parameter is a handle > or > a name. It can attempt a handle lookup and if it fails try a name > lookup. It would be much better to have a separate request to look up a > registrar (or entity) by name. As currently specified the server should only receive entity handles when d= oing an exact match lookup. We touched on this topic at some point in the past, but I'm having trouble = finding the thread in the archives. I thought we had consensus to address e= ntity name lookups in the search draft, so a method to look for a registrar= by name is described in section 3.2 of draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search= . > p.2 It is envisioned that other documents will describe these entities > --Update with reference to draft-ietf-weirds-json-response OK. > p.3 HTTP contains mechanisms for servers to authenticate ... > --Update with reference to draft-ietf-weirds-using-http and > draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-sec OK. > p.3 The uniform patterns start with a base URL ... > --Some proposals for bootstrapping will not support this. Should Last > Call on this document be deferred until the decisions on bootstrapping > have been made? >=20 > p.4 Queries for information regarding autonomous system number > registrations are of the form /autnum/XXX/... where XXX is an asplain > --Last phrase reads as a typo to those not familiar with the term. > Change to: > where XXX is an "asplain" OK. > p.5 and 6 If the client sends the server an IDN in U-label format, > servers that support IDNs MUST convert the IDN into A-label format and > perform IDNA processing as specified in RFC 5891 [RFC5891] > --RFC5891 specifies two slightly different processes (Section 3.1): > Labels being registered MUST conform to the requirements of > Section 4. Labels being looked up and the lookup process MUST > conform to the requirements of Section 5. > Can this reference be more explicit to section 4 or 5. Since we're talking about a lookup process I don't see how the registration= process described in Section 4 can be applied, but OK, it can't hurt to be= more specific. > p.7 ... the process described in Section TBD of "Using HTTP for RESTful > Whois Services by Internet Registries" > Update to ... the process described in Section 6 of "HTTP usage in the > Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP)" OK, thanks for catching that. > p.10 Appendix A. seems like an interim note, should it be in a > published > RFC? It *is* more of a note than anything else, but I agree with John Levine's c= omment that "it's useful to answer the frequent questions about where are t= he search patterns". I can live with it being excised from here and added t= o the search draft I mentioned above. Scott From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Jul 9 04:51:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2B8921F9DC9 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 04:51:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4XaqB9pE8jeX for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 04:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og102.obsmtp.com (exprod6og102.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.183]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975C521F9C8B for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 04:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob102.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUdv5VZXzh+TGV0CGMSfFZP9tGbY5fnH0@postini.com; Tue, 09 Jul 2013 04:51:50 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.205]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r69Bpjl4019967 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 07:51:49 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 07:51:45 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOcaDipF1J5KwVBUOVGoSoTbZSl5lTXV4AgAAI2wCAAEijAIAHH+tQgAF/qjA= Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 11:51:44 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE70F4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> <7ACFEBF0-A253-48D7-AB5E-73AE91DBC3AB@viagenie.ca> <51D48222.5030407@afilias.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE5AD4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE5AD4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 11:51:56 -0000 Referencing some rdap-query last call comments from Ernie and John: > > p.10 Appendix A. seems like an interim note, should it be in a > > published > > RFC? >=20 > It *is* more of a note than anything else, but I agree with John > Levine's comment that "it's useful to answer the frequent questions > about where are the search patterns". I can live with it being excised > from here and added to the search draft I mentioned above. This brings up a larger point: we still haven't made a decision about how t= o document search functionality. rdap-query punts it to a document that did= n't exist when we first wrote rdap-query. Now we have draft-hollenbeck-weir= ds-rdap-search and draft-zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search, but neither is a = working group document. If we agree that basic search functionality needs t= o be documented we need to decide what it is and where it gets described. I= don't think we can push rdap-query to IETF last call until we make a decis= ion. My suggestion: either add the functions described in draft-hollenbeck-weird= s-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search and reference it. I tend t= o favor the former because it reduces the document count and puts a core se= t of client-sent commands in one place. We can still explore more advanced = search functionality in draft-zhou as we see fit. Scott From superuser@gmail.com Tue Jul 9 15:33:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E9ED11E8181 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:33:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z6qlbdF1KYiB for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22f.google.com (mail-wg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626A311E817A for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id l18so5203040wgh.26 for ; Tue, 09 Jul 2013 15:33:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=0ugK9+ToCo4P3+oHiOo66lGDLOgR9ApCsJetBicvZTU=; b=SwrxcXb3MTGvh3H2i7fUQFYi4wF1wrgX4x3CbUa4deltHRX7PPmg7hukhEi7y6BQ1h JwB3YI7/FejURYs98OJwJi8n6U7mz96M0pxJA3PAOe5w0RGWTY2MtTm4Lq6477ogEbwd howjz2hDzL93bWw843nXIQx4Y8PYcHBoQvgbuuiTMhrieAK2Nu48XMyfbqdEi5O8fH7o zmarqs1zNyiR3Qdi4opyxGcGAzaep9LnsyesAIb5bVmiY8kHTOkPPQEPkcocU6BrKYB+ ub0/deZcMpBokHVLtpDgoG75p5qM39FcbdfacBZk7QbPP3N/MWTJRzg1qgCshtpE2xCs /Org== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.48.116 with SMTP id k20mr16600720wjn.23.1373409186439; Tue, 09 Jul 2013 15:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:33:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE70F4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> <7ACFEBF0-A253-48D7-AB5E-73AE91DBC3AB@viagenie.ca> <51D48222.5030407@afilias.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE5AD4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE70F4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 15:33:06 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7ba975e6b06e0c04e11bbe4d Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2013 22:33:08 -0000 --047d7ba975e6b06e0c04e11bbe4d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > This brings up a larger point: we still haven't made a decision about how > to document search functionality. rdap-query punts it to a document that > didn't exist when we first wrote rdap-query. Now we have > draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and > draft-zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group > document. If we agree that basic search functionality needs to be > documented we need to decide what it is and where it gets described. I > don't think we can push rdap-query to IETF last call until we make a > decision. > > My suggestion: either add the functions described in > draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search and > reference it. I tend to favor the former because it reduces the document > count and puts a core set of client-sent commands in one place. We can > still explore more advanced search functionality in draft-zhou as we see > fit. > Olaf's the shepherd on this one, so speaking only as a participant here: If the search functionality that we decide will be an integral part of RDAP is relatively simple in terms of the query syntax and capabilities, I think rolling it into rdap-query makes sense. Creating a new document for something very simple is possibly more work than it's worth, and it would bring to four the number of documents about which we need to make a processing decision (with the object inventory, search, and bootstrapping already under discussion). Keeping procedural work to a minimum is not a bad thing. -MSK --047d7ba975e6b06e0c04e11bbe4d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott <shollenbeck@verisign.com> wrote:
This brings up a larger point: we still have= n't made a decision about how to document search functionality. rdap-qu= ery punts it to a document that didn't exist when we first wrote rdap-q= uery. Now we have draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and draft-zhou-weirds= -rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group document. If we agree = that basic search functionality needs to be documented we need to decide wh= at it is and where it gets described. I don't think we can push rdap-qu= ery to IETF last call until we make a decision.

My suggestion: either add the functions described in draft-hollenbeck-weird= s-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search and reference it. I tend t= o favor the former because it reduces the document count and puts a core se= t of client-sent commands in one place. We can still explore more advanced = search functionality in draft-zhou as we see fit.

Olaf's the shepherd on this one, so sp= eaking only as a participant here:

If the search function= ality that we decide will be an integral part of RDAP is relatively simple = in terms of the query syntax and capabilities, I think rolling it into rdap= -query makes sense.=A0 Creating a new document for something very simple is= possibly more work than it's worth, and it would bring to four the num= ber of documents about which we need to make a processing decision (with th= e object inventory, search, and bootstrapping already under discussion).=A0= Keeping procedural work to a minimum is not a bad thing.

-MSK
--047d7ba975e6b06e0c04e11bbe4d-- From internet-drafts@ietf.org Mon Jul 15 14:55:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A4311E812C; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:55:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vuxNz0XUkoYK; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38EED21E814C; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:55:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.51.p2 Message-ID: <20130715215525.19775.11536.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:55:25 -0700 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: [weirds] I-D Action: draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 21:55:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Web Extensible Internet Registration Data= Service Working Group of the IETF. Title : Redirection Service for Registration Data Access Protocol Author(s) : Carlos M. Martinez Arturo L. Servin Linlin Zhou Dario Gomez Gerardo Rada Filename : draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2013-07-15 Abstract: The traditional WHOIS protocol has several important shortcomings, and over the past few years several approaches to a better Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP) have been discussed and proposed. It is worth noting that the term WHOIS is sometimes used interchangeably to mean either (a) the registration data itself or (b) the protocol used to access registration data Among these shortcomings, different registries operate different WHOIS services. For users this means that several WHOIS queries to different registries may be necessary in order to obtain data for a given resource. This document describes a redirection service for RDAP queries. This service allows clients to query a single RDAP service and expect either an authoritative answer or a redirection hint pointing to another, possibly authoritative, RDAP server. The solution implemented proposed here applies to Regional Internet Registries(RIRs) and Domain Name Registries(DNRs). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-weirds-redirects There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From carlos@lacnic.net Mon Jul 15 14:59:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B08021E8156 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:59:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.769 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.769 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.680, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HOST_EQ_DIALUP=0.862, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3DDyu9D7S3jz for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00FF021E80C8 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:58:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonaire.local (r190-135-57-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy [190.135.57.181]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA07308477 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 18:58:33 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <51E470A6.907@lacnic.net> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 18:59:02 -0300 From: "Carlos M. Martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "" References: <20130715215527.19775.42271.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20130715215527.19775.42271.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20130715215527.19775.42271.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080204020408030201090604" X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: carlos@lacnic.net Subject: [weirds] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02.txt X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 21:59:10 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080204020408030201090604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI. Main changes: - language cleanup (done away with RESTful WHOIS) - section on loop detection gone as per WG feedback - noted that a simple redirection table for number resources can be built from the IANA registries - added pseudo code for a redirection-only RDAP service - noted the discussion of the bootstrap problem tks! ~Carlos -------- Original Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02.txt Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:55:27 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Linlin Zhou , Gerardo Rada , Dario Gomez , Carlos M. Martinez , Arturo L. Servin A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02.txt has been successfully submitted by Carlos M. Martinez and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-ietf-weirds-redirects Revision: 02 Title: Redirection Service for Registration Data Access Protocol Creation date: 2013-07-15 Group: weirds Number of pages: 10 URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02.txt Status: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-weirds-redirects Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02 Diff: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02 Abstract: The traditional WHOIS protocol has several important shortcomings, and over the past few years several approaches to a better Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP) have been discussed and proposed. It is worth noting that the term WHOIS is sometimes used interchangeably to mean either (a) the registration data itself or (b) the protocol used to access registration data Among these shortcomings, different registries operate different WHOIS services. For users this means that several WHOIS queries to different registries may be necessary in order to obtain data for a given resource. This document describes a redirection service for RDAP queries. This service allows clients to query a single RDAP service and expect either an authoritative answer or a redirection hint pointing to another, possibly authoritative, RDAP server. The solution implemented proposed here applies to Regional Internet Registries(RIRs) and Domain Name Registries(DNRs). The IETF Secretariat --------------080204020408030201090604 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI.

Main changes:

- language cleanup (done away with RESTful WHOIS)
- section on loop detection gone as per WG feedback
- noted that a simple redirection table for number resources can be built from the IANA registries
- added pseudo code for a redirection-only RDAP service
- noted the discussion of the bootstrap problem

tks!

~Carlos


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02.txt
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:55:27 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Linlin Zhou <zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn>, Gerardo Rada <gerardo@lacnic.net>, Dario Gomez <dario@lacnic.net>, Carlos M. Martinez <carlos@lacnic.net>, Arturo L. Servin <aservin@lacnic.net> 


A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02.txt
has been successfully submitted by Carlos M. Martinez and posted to the
IETF repository.

Filename:	 draft-ietf-weirds-redirects
Revision:	 02
Title:		 Redirection Service for Registration Data Access Protocol
Creation date:	 2013-07-15
Group:		 weirds
Number of pages: 10
URL:             http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02.txt
Status:          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-weirds-redirects
Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02
Diff:            http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-weirds-redirects-02

Abstract:
   The traditional WHOIS protocol has several important shortcomings,
   and over the past few years several approaches to a better
   Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP) have been discussed and
   proposed.

   It is worth noting that the term WHOIS is sometimes used
   interchangeably to mean either (a) the registration data itself or
   (b) the protocol used to access registration data

   Among these shortcomings, different registries operate different
   WHOIS services.  For users this means that several WHOIS queries to
   different registries may be necessary in order to obtain data for a
   given resource.

   This document describes a redirection service for RDAP queries.  This
   service allows clients to query a single RDAP service and expect
   either an authoritative answer or a redirection hint pointing to
   another, possibly authoritative, RDAP server.

   The solution implemented proposed here applies to Regional Internet
   Registries(RIRs) and Domain Name Registries(DNRs).

                                                                                  


The IETF Secretariat


--------------080204020408030201090604-- From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Mon Jul 15 16:05:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A5DE21E81AE; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:05:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pYZTpTXGyDRu; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3D521E81A0; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:05:36 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.51.p2 Sender: Message-ID: <20130715230536.14139.1854.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:05:36 -0700 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: [weirds] Last Call: (HTTP usage in the Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP)) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:05:40 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service WG (weirds) to consider the following document: - 'HTTP usage in the Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP)' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2013-07-29. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document is one of a collection that together describe the Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP). It describes how RDAP is transported using the Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP). The file can be obtained via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-weirds-using-http/ IESG discussion can be tracked via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-weirds-using-http/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Mon Jul 15 16:06:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C594121E8192; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:06:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.101, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qVOAiaOzdRKC; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B01B21E818A; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.51.p2 Sender: Message-ID: <20130715230614.25146.34230.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:06:14 -0700 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: [weirds] Last Call: (Security Services for the Registration Data Access Protocol) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 23:06:15 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service WG (weirds) to consider the following document: - 'Security Services for the Registration Data Access Protocol' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2013-07-29. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract The Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP) provides "RESTful" web services to retrieve registration metadata from domain name and regional internet registries. This document describes information security services including authentication, authorization, availability, data confidentiality, and data integrity for RDAP. The file can be obtained via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-sec/ IESG discussion can be tracked via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-sec/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From superuser@gmail.com Mon Jul 15 17:06:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB07511E826C for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 17:06:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pQ544h8JMWLd for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 17:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x234.google.com (mail-wi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F29BF21E8197 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 17:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f180.google.com with SMTP id c10so46031wiw.7 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 17:06:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ZeocxCtLBVt7pL/CJYfkVEC8HNaKCHyzAVuh4+7RULo=; b=vsAk13VHSAjhqRTy4Ws05kLEmvj61n/dUloRobrMAGlb8JsvmpgdRVdKPfa4OB578t M/nMaf0defaHqAnNjsRMcH0VpYSeLjgoNFpiwaC65u1QgyhFoLQamXMCfjST0qt80jCQ Hr1Lsc5tLCr9LFoeuFkhnnQTOB6vDdQRNXkvXvICUI3zmGySFfjk4ScIgZ2lDbVIME+r Y8vhUYUohL5id8ko0QYbfqJdCvJGuPRNsNJ/nSyqpL2wM6c64HrcdVpsbr39UtV27t25 sqIR2ra0gI4iq8bHVU/zD/Xmx+FMoxN4wUQ76RFI7TwVcqdwPoth+0GmjRPn8OHA/qNP D1mw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.187.17 with SMTP id fo17mr10493430wic.60.1373933209752; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 17:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 17:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 17:06:49 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c26a5ee99a5c04e195c09d Subject: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 00:06:57 -0000 --001a11c26a5ee99a5c04e195c09d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ...is now available; feedback welcome: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-87-weirds -MSK --001a11c26a5ee99a5c04e195c09d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
-MSK
--001a11c26a5ee99a5c04e195c09d-- From presnick@qti.qualcomm.com Mon Jul 15 19:04:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D11C811E81A3 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:04:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1GcW7m83O0WW for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:03:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine02.qualcomm.com (wolverine02.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.251]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E130311E817B for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:03:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1373940237; x=1405476237; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+dSAfECdu42EVpqLvX1fsJB11nYPuik+tG5xLgg++JA=; b=c5IdCfCQ8JuWDNA2ezLX5NivEY+dkw+MgD77PS0GvACKDaTMbNS1YDGp P1o7srw/EfbgDoOIu6JMUaD66KaUDQ64PiJzCmLVDIrhcm1wknIoQd+wZ 7kuISKWR7MB+wG+C5mtCqnHP9Nd1FuVOOaDyfc2vZYgWXhrxs34DuE1xi o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,673,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="62933447" Received: from ironmsg03-l.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.18]) by wolverine02.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 15 Jul 2013 19:03:57 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,673,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="505391849" Received: from nasanexhc02.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.24]) by Ironmsg03-L.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 15 Jul 2013 19:03:57 -0700 Received: from nasanexhc05.na.qualcomm.com (172.30.48.2) by NASANEXHC02.na.qualcomm.com (172.30.48.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:03:56 -0700 Received: from resnick2.qualcomm.com (172.30.48.1) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (172.30.48.2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:03:56 -0700 Message-ID: <51E4AA0A.4050905@qti.qualcomm.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 21:03:54 -0500 From: Pete Resnick User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100630 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Saint-Andre X-Priority: 2 (High) References: <51C8D872.5030606@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <51C8D872.5030606@stpeter.im> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [172.30.48.1] Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] JSON vCard reference X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 02:04:01 -0000 On 6/24/13 6:38 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > Please note that > draft-kewisch-vcard-in-json has been superseded by > draft-ietf-jcardcal-jcard. (Also, the latter specification has been > submitted to the IESG for publication, so if you have feedback please > send it as soon as possible.) > WEIRDS people: I would *really* appreciate if some of you took a look at the jCard document and reviewed it enough to give a quick "I did a final review; this seems like it will be useful for the WEIRDS work; no objections" message (to the IETF). (Obviously if you have concerns, we want to hear about these ASAP!) I haven't seen any public comments from WEIRDS folks indicating that this is sufficient. Here's an easy link so you can go review: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jcardcal-jcard/ Thanks, pr -- Pete Resnick Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478 From presnick@qti.qualcomm.com Tue Jul 16 06:09:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DFD11E80E9 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:09:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.466 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.466 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBfTAmM7Sk8K for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wolverine01.qualcomm.com (wolverine01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEBEB11E80E6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:09:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1373980185; x=1405516185; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZifCLE1K83anFbHT3UI9V7blF5h51guq/ro+NYHGQ+Q=; b=iiyK19k9/KQlcn07saqg7jQr7hM5Jy4qikYApDk46UXefF7y99PLXBDF lIjFD6RjepfLgEAPrgvxpXx+zvTTxsqTFKV15KoPYmDa9CJgL1Smfbsoz LFFP1WtZFL9fnukPlXBO4EsBh6daElFnYbtpN8OhzBrF19hk5Wx5OJRWw g=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,676,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="62932289" Received: from ironmsg04-r.qualcomm.com ([172.30.46.18]) by wolverine01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 16 Jul 2013 06:09:44 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.89,676,1367996400"; d="scan'208";a="568995593" Received: from nasanexhc04.na.qualcomm.com ([172.30.48.17]) by Ironmsg04-R.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-SHA; 16 Jul 2013 06:09:44 -0700 Received: from resnick2.qualcomm.com (172.30.48.1) by qcmail1.qualcomm.com (172.30.48.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.4; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:09:43 -0700 Message-ID: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:09:42 -0500 From: Pete Resnick User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100630 Eudora/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [172.30.48.1] Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:09:49 -0000 On 7/15/13 7:06 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > ...is now available; feedback welcome: > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-87-weirds I have some feedback: > Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) > Agenda -- August 1, 2013 at 10:30-11:30 in Potsdam 2 > > - Administrivia (10 mins; chairs) > - blue sheets > - minute-taker and jabber scribe Yes, all fine, though I would suggest finding the minute-taker and jabber scribe before the meeting. Asking for volunteers now would be good. Those two items should take 2 minutes tops. > - current document status Send out an email message with this beforehand. No need for it on the agenda. Please remove it. > - Demo/interop report (5 mins; TBD) I take it this is intended to be a report of the interop/demo event on the previous Saturday. The WG session is on Thursday. Again, this report should be sent out to the list. If something comes out of the report that needs discussion (a bug in one of the specs), that should be added to the agenda separately. I see no need for a report being on the agenda. > - Handling of the object inventory draft (5 mins; chairs/AD) Yes. There was barely any discussion on the list and I'd like to unwedge this. (And since the "wedgedness" is my fault... ;-) ) > - Bootstrapping (10 mins; Marc Blanchet) I suspect this might need a bit more time, since there has been quite a bit of discussion in general, but little on Marc's last "requirements" message. > - Redirects (10 mins; Carlos Martinez) What is there to discuss on this draft? The list discussion seems to be quiet. > - Search (10 mins; Ning Kong) What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion (or lack of discussion) on the list does this relate to? pr -- Pete Resnick Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478 From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 16 06:37:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 585BE21F84AF for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:37:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Mn2EgBE0KMt for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2C521F849C for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id AB2641651B3; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:37:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA42F165183; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:37:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:37:25 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:37:25 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Marc Blanchet , "weirds@ietf.org Group" Thread-Topic: [weirds] bootstrap requirements Thread-Index: AQHOeNsZvzJ9OfEu6kaHqEsVqCFvtplnYYCA Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:37:24 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE0AC4912693Eandyarinnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:37:32 -0000 --_000_CE0AC4912693Eandyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Marc Blanchet > Date: Thursday, July 4, 2013 1:22 PM To: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: [weirds] bootstrap requirements Possible functional requirements: 1) require use of https on every request 2) specify per registry which of http/https is to be used by clients 3) provide delegation below the tld 4) same solution for both names and numbers 5) don't route all traffic through one point of attack (which is not the sa= me as one point of failure) 6) base URL may have a prepended path (i.e. http://domain/my/own/path/query= ) 7) if DNS is used, only terminating DNS RR can be used (i.e. no CNAME, SRV,= NAPTR Possible design choices: 20) does the client have a cache of "servers" to start with? 21) if a cache, how/when does it refresh the data? I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up previously settle= d technical decisions. -andy --_000_CE0AC4912693Eandyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Marc Blanchet <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca>
Date: Thursday, July 4, 2013 1:22 P= M
To: "weirds@ietf.org" <= weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: [weirds] bootstrap require= ments

Possible functional re= quirements:
1) require use of http= s on every request
2) specify per registr= y which of http/https is to be used by clients
3) provide delegation = below the tld
4) same solution for b= oth names and numbers
5) don't route all tra= ffic through one point of attack (which is not the same as one point of fai= lure)
6) base URL may have a= prepended path (i.e. http://domain/my/own/path/query= )
7) if DNS is used, onl= y terminating DNS RR can be used (i.e. no CNAME, SRV, NAPTR

Possible design choice= s:
20) does the client ha= ve a cache of "servers" to start with?
21) if a cache, how/wh= en does it refresh the data?

I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up previously s= ettled technical decisions.

-andy
--_000_CE0AC4912693Eandyarinnet_-- From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 16 06:41:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DED11E80E6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:41:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.333, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dDhCgsCTmi2y for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C8F21F9D5C for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 2F8D01651B2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968EE165160; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:41:02 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:41:02 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOcaDhZwAk+6LeDEKNGSgMWAVhv5lTXV4AgAAI2wCAAEijAIABt7OAgBIKZgA= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:41:01 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20130704221107.17821.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1283C11F3F523D48A4D7253226898123@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:41:15 -0000 On 7/4/13 6:11 PM, "John Levine" wrote: >>I was going to suggest taking out the bit about base URLs. They add >no function, since anything you can do with a base URL you can do just >as well with a virtual domain, and they make the clients more complex. I'm hard pressed to see how it makes a client more complex. I've written a client and it bore no difference in the string manipulation code needed for acting on base urls. On the flip side, I'm in the middle of writing ARIN's server implementation and being forced to root the URL at a domain name only will cause issues with deploying the code on our current RESTful infrastructure. I'm not saying they are insurmountable, but its extra machinery and that always leads to more complexity. -andy From carlosm3011@gmail.com Tue Jul 16 06:42:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73D8121F85B3 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:42:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.216 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.216 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.383, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ehwvi5WBIURc for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ye0-x22a.google.com (mail-ye0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c04::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0298A21F83EF for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ye0-f170.google.com with SMTP id q3so179123yen.15 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:42:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ED+4y2h5Hvz6UcWDtTFlm/Dm1oU0lBw8udddJp8NjMs=; b=yDQWfonuI7gwWsMBqxicL6bkIuf3v2hLVxsQcKMHJU0sX5xIqXZvD1EqdtSuzZczOc YgL/dRDmtPYde/OL8x5/RRYjrf3TOpQgathl6QCaL5zUYTHFsy+ckOlATmtVZFyfbiVw ONmpbkxGI/FVVgos3C5OC6qQ/GeVfJDvfNTh1Cv6GPuEv6pc+gzVxB8wLWXnY01wUtft y9vHLCdkdDUeKOHy48JRU2OlhtwEZpIjmtgd4dSJ17jJUTAlbCluq/+jVkCrZ/mhOzfH yy3TXJ4iTaSph2t+CLg7OIZ0NGrnrNyFQxosTxCzr74cxnEF0aJdv5/AWMKxKdXZgWa0 gSrA== X-Received: by 10.236.146.196 with SMTP id r44mr436591yhj.21.1373982133405; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonaire.local (ip-64-134-184-148.public.wayport.net. [64.134.184.148]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s80sm1247498yhe.27.2013.07.16.06.42.11 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:42:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51E54DB2.9090808@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:42:10 -0400 From: "Carlos M. martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:42:22 -0000 On 7/16/13 9:37 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > > > I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up previously > settled technical decisions. +1, that's why I think we should settle the 'hypothesis on client behaviour' questions once and for all, so they don't keep creeping up every time we discuss bootstrapping. ~CM. > > -andy > > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 16 06:47:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67D821F8168 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:47:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QwnnqjKVwtep for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB51021F9D87 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 8398E16518F; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5B8916519B; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:46:34 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:46:34 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOcaDhZwAk+6LeDEKNGSgMWAVhv5lTXV4AgAAI2wCAAEijAIAHa8OAgAF6iwCACt0+AA== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:46:12 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE70F4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8A369415ADA83E40A55C34D9F99FB668@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:47:17 -0000 On 7/9/13 7:51 AM, "Hollenbeck, Scott" wrote: >This brings up a larger point: we still haven't made a decision about how >to document search functionality. rdap-query punts it to a document that >didn't exist when we first wrote rdap-query. Now we have >draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and >draft-zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group >document. If we agree that basic search functionality needs to be >documented we need to decide what it is and where it gets described. I >don't think we can push rdap-query to IETF last call until we make a >decision. > >My suggestion: either add the functions described in >draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search >and reference it. I tend to favor the former because it reduces the >document count and puts a core set of client-sent commands in one place. >We can still explore more advanced search functionality in draft-zhou as >we see fit. I it was John Levine who did a quick survey of current Whois search functions and found that they are not anywhere close to universally supported. As lookups are by far the predominate query type, I think holding our specs to get a feature that doesn't meet the 80/20 rule is imprudent, especially when it can be added later with little fuss. -andy From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Tue Jul 16 06:56:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C07C21E8091 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:56:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T2B673ufbeZv for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87EEE21E8086 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 06:56:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0DCBB470FB; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5EAA4E1A-B704-42BB-870C-C9A2D36BD43D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:56:12 -0400 Message-Id: <987DE7C7-F72A-4C2D-A7A6-B7E99473C54A@viagenie.ca> References: To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:56:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5EAA4E1A-B704-42BB-870C-C9A2D36BD43D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Le 2013-07-16 =E0 09:37, Andy Newton a =E9crit : > From: Marc Blanchet > Date: Thursday, July 4, 2013 1:22 PM > To: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: [weirds] bootstrap requirements >=20 >> Possible functional requirements: >> 1) require use of https on every request >> 2) specify per registry which of http/https is to be used by clients >> 3) provide delegation below the tld >> 4) same solution for both names and numbers >> 5) don't route all traffic through one point of attack (which is not = the same as one point of failure) >> 6) base URL may have a prepended path (i.e. = http://domain/my/own/path/query) >> 7) if DNS is used, only terminating DNS RR can be used (i.e. no = CNAME, SRV, NAPTR >>=20 >> Possible design choices: >> 20) does the client have a cache of "servers" to start with? >> 21) if a cache, how/when does it refresh the data? >>=20 >=20 >=20 > I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up previously = settled technical decisions. would you mind stating them? (I haven't seen a real concensus call on = any of them and I've seen different opinions on all of them) Marc. >=20 > -andy --Apple-Mail=_5EAA4E1A-B704-42BB-870C-C9A2D36BD43D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 andy@arin.net> a =E9crit :

From: Marc Blanchet <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca>= ;
Date: Thursday, July 4, 2013 = 1:22 PM
To: "weirds@ietf.org" <weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: [weirds] bootstrap = requirements

Possible functional = requirements:
1) require use of = https on every request
2) specify per = registry which of http/https is to be used by clients
3) provide = delegation below the tld
4) same solution = for both names and numbers
5) don't route all = traffic through one point of attack (which is not the same as one point = of failure)
6) base URL may = have a prepended path (i.e. http://domain/my/own/path/query)
7) if DNS is used, = only terminating DNS RR can be used (i.e. no CNAME, SRV, = NAPTR

Possible design = choices:
20) does the client = have a cache of "servers" to start with?
21) if a cache, = how/when does it refresh the data?

-andy

= --Apple-Mail=_5EAA4E1A-B704-42BB-870C-C9A2D36BD43D-- From johnl@taugh.com Tue Jul 16 07:10:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36E4911E80E7 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:10:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.641 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.641 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.041, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MwxuDMIivmGK for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E2911E80E6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 64737 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2013 14:10:03 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=fcdf.51e5543b.k1307; bh=YqUT6xtdhRxIZG5w69HFJcmn8Ih3qWtwFg3n0X6NIko=; b=Qzo+2C1tUvXJtG1hQDkOm975k54zebihglSMnhnWuBqZ9TGa9DGxU+pwfsA38K4ClTLUyjvfQXSHA/8hE1XZhlO1vvn1dpUe5FFoSU4qfseHDFYBnFsoagd5x5W506QLSY3zK+5eG0v9qeoqWfTSrmJc67wc++jQhVUw3SVBW/I/XrijHO0y40iLed+sL+pwKM4vqb1wVtTC3Y1DtQYd5Zh+y3spHs+Dbm4zPPuOlG/7Y1bunq16nTBckrso4M01 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=fcdf.51e5543b.k1307; bh=YqUT6xtdhRxIZG5w69HFJcmn8Ih3qWtwFg3n0X6NIko=; b=C0QLvLG4pizZpX7oXbap2HTHAbN8x1uqbCFajWIgxHPEvLwsNn64vptJdXKLr3WqUEaxwngiq5ENsyuTLAARvDMO19fllx8dVK1ETzdMH65QPRpjYXi6WOLu5ixw3rodB7zYMMfY4QhfUx5zY8HBsSSNzZDyf+IrM1sTXkomUsUwFiaBRWzdHrBiJkP4jsFcjgMaiL/BUMgQKiifSBfGK9ubc6MblCrzKP3NDeCYIi8kfG3B8CSpdZfHAQqrh+vf Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Jul 2013 14:09:41 -0000 Date: 16 Jul 2013 10:10:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Andy Newton" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; BOUNDARY="3825401791-2138172811-1373983803=:55360" Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:10:07 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3825401791-2138172811-1373983803=:55360 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >>> I was going to suggest taking out the bit about base URLs. They add >> no function, since anything you can do with a base URL you can do just >> as well with a virtual domain, and they make the clients more complex. > > I'm hard pressed to see how it makes a client more complex. I've written a > client and it bore no difference in the string manipulation code needed > for acting on base urls. It makes the bootstrap harder, since it has to find a complete URL, not just a host name. > On the flip side, I'm in the middle of writing ARIN's server > implementation and being forced to root the URL at a domain name only will > cause issues with deploying the code on our current RESTful > infrastructure. I'm not saying they are insurmountable, but its extra > machinery and that always leads to more complexity. I thought we agreed that given that there will be far more clients than servers, it's better to put the extra complexity on the server side. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. --3825401791-2138172811-1373983803=:55360 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIIJCQYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIII+jCCCPYCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqG SIb3DQEHAaCCBjowggY2MIIFHqADAgECAgMGLywwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAw gYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYD VQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYD VQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENs aWVudCBDQTAeFw0xMzAzMTYxOTQ0MDdaFw0xNDAzMTgxMjI4MzVaMFUxGTAX BgNVBA0TEHFaMXRuOTBuMkdVODZzemYxGDAWBgNVBAMMD2pvaG5sQHRhdWdo LmNvbTEeMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYPam9obmxAdGF1Z2guY29tMIIBIjANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAve/4NFMbuvtD6QSuXAoYQ0SkaO9s DiNHA4saJNV0OIXd6dtM87w7OETKWWVq24Ab6vQaYh218oCF1GDdLv6EiRB8 oL1k9sK2v70iAVT83vEnmaj6/hQVcBI6mZJH6LXyCgYSP2e5yBQqJu+hgLte bdg7kOKW2tb937jDn9KYRVFIlEU0/iu/b/Buwq3ahg2BsG3vg92Zk+Dv5VON QDLE8x8wdi1cor7qBY/RERw4O3LXo3644OU0t6KS3aQxLrXEvWZHHvLhsAu1 BjYbC+qdSddDT1t+adEnZq9/wMhNGhPWCd/uFDZanSpyM913b7eI1Q2aNgA0 cccjEgBsp8IipwIDAQABo4IC1TCCAtEwCQYDVR0TBAIwADALBgNVHQ8EBAMC BLAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBSL djRDW8NpGZJjlhjZ0SLge0hCvjAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBRTcu2SnODaywFcfH6W NU7y1LhRgjAaBgNVHREEEzARgQ9qb2hubEB0YXVnaC5jb20wggFMBgNVHSAE ggFDMIIBPzCCATsGCysGAQQBgbU3AQIDMIIBKjAuBggrBgEFBQcCARYiaHR0 cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vcG9saWN5LnBkZjCB9wYIKwYBBQUHAgIw geowJxYgU3RhcnRDb20gQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBBdXRob3JpdHkwAwIBARqB vlRoaXMgY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgd2FzIGlzc3VlZCBhY2NvcmRpbmcgdG8gdGhl IENsYXNzIDEgVmFsaWRhdGlvbiByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgb2YgdGhlIFN0YXJ0 Q29tIENBIHBvbGljeSwgcmVsaWFuY2Ugb25seSBmb3IgdGhlIGludGVuZGVk IHB1cnBvc2UgaW4gY29tcGxpYW5jZSBvZiB0aGUgcmVseWluZyBwYXJ0eSBv YmxpZ2F0aW9ucy4wNgYDVR0fBC8wLTAroCmgJ4YlaHR0cDovL2NybC5zdGFy dHNzbC5jb20vY3J0dTEtY3JsLmNybDCBjgYIKwYBBQUHAQEEgYEwfzA5Bggr BgEFBQcwAYYtaHR0cDovL29jc3Auc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3N1Yi9jbGFzczEv Y2xpZW50L2NhMEIGCCsGAQUFBzAChjZodHRwOi8vYWlhLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNv bS9jZXJ0cy9zdWIuY2xhc3MxLmNsaWVudC5jYS5jcnQwIwYDVR0SBBwwGoYY aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCM pgcOpxRJazPzEBYnhGENuQqzXeLyA3a8XL7YaxaAJwV7ucDVkyQHu35PUEkh vVgIKnxq6N9WxHiO6GK/imdwS3LrUBbs+0v+95m6YhJv6ZfvAHTyTLqrozXU ohR5NRFeL0p1OfK1llnl/I71Fe/JNgxJHDn1puzsFoJD3zYCKgNdST3FPNIb 2v/xIiubuB85tiJSWUlc56OkCdBK3ZgBnwYV8LxFmpOlwedaHC6sxIk1rsuX BHbRIJwLFy2LqVtNm0M5NzBVyPQf72lPn/aaJLbqY5DDm4/lSy94R+CKXabE 6lWan7xmbqdDDlMxGbpMRWV2Cxi5ONp4uNgNcwI6MYIClzCCApMCAQEwgZQw gYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYD VQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYD VQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENs aWVudCBDQQIDBi8sMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCggdgwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqG SIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTMwNzE2MTQxMDAzWjAjBgkqhkiG 9w0BCQQxFgQUNP6n0v6zZ+Ng4cwJxX1zKdPC2ugweQYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMWww ajALBglghkgBZQMEASowCwYJYIZIAWUDBAEWMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBAjAKBggq hkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG9w0DAgICAIAwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICAUAwBwYFKw4D AgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAJLOkCd8QSPLi frzfvX+86wDgW27yqQlNruVg0gv09pvDIENNkGGPT1ez/hYPZFQEJbRG0FOB oP8gXPgpJrkwWQKdiZDLicAWs5v9PrHGCxIPnHQrNsUQQ9AKbvi2znUWU//D l998iCs8hwF0KRuiJWGPH8g02Ap8fbkMgj6re8qqvCd0CuFyknCKOlaJMnYd DmnJKVjkNJyDRXpSp+8kcsOP8jSDISs4eDRz1fDgZvumU7fMHBmtje3MdLkS cSnbBAML0dM7BLdDMksb5oevl5hJyCkbqTprfksse9qdIxqd2kydzlCfpmYO VhLKb13IYD12jxsEFmHAxh7L9++DoA== --3825401791-2138172811-1373983803=:55360-- From andy@hxr.us Tue Jul 16 07:10:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E250F21E8093 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:10:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UZw4nmwM4LfH for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-f177.google.com (mail-pd0-f177.google.com [209.85.192.177]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F0CC11E80E6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:10:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f177.google.com with SMTP id p10so714421pdj.8 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:10:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=JWN/0pFaXj37+4p9QFZLVz2u4nuH7FNG465ONUMYRZk=; b=jHixRdNkLh/zwb3lQGQ2cSPlZzOa7GiS2si7IQgb8pRoLFOYr6s9YDrHwpav4nhGc0 x1VkkhTCNf7s3e5gSiobOq8ObN5egInfORhFneyopf0/J33//+eFhtM1FpLhdVMyPNG4 x+E7rxMASsUE2E1+IBr8IvtudCjlooS/KaT7jc1q9sLHRM/xt3j1sErcow/wuSM2Wk4S 8qnU/Ne19fvCkvpNmTqogp5OF+/ngKGfSwsASkbpqWqZUe+7sDlfFW0n42+2e6Fehl0b QtH/NEdGg7/LE4MrdJ+2S5rFqmLpc5xSDmBGe0kGWeJZ9m1IKgcZwZTN4tfHYcLPZL1b 9x4Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.219.130 with SMTP id po2mr1791694pbc.54.1373983816945; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.203.69 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:10:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [192.149.252.11] Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:10:16 -0400 Message-ID: From: Andrew Newton To: ietf@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn2ysZ3WPcZWOEOKC1UcD7pDOZD2ALD30TqHV4xbBJVCDDKgQy/IfPxB057p9NcgzfeC2BM Cc: jcardcal@ietf.org, "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: [weirds] LC of draft-ietf-jcardcal-jcard-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:10:23 -0000 In the context of writing both an RDAP client and server for the weirds activity, I have read draft-ietf-jcardcal-jcard-05 and found no issues. -andy From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Jul 16 07:12:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EE0421F9C12 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:12:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hjYxRAP9rOyt for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og127.obsmtp.com (exprod6og127.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5716021F8526 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob127.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUeVU0ayAf6gx8+z7C8ltLPKJfcmsj+VK@postini.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:12:35 PDT Received: from BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexchm01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.255]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6GECUkd018837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:12:30 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:12:30 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andy Newton , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOcaDipF1J5KwVBUOVGoSoTbZSl5lTXV4AgAAI2wCAAEijAIAHH+tQgAF/qjCAC2cGAP//w9Mw Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:12:29 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEE9A6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE70F4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:12:41 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Newton [mailto:andy@arin.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:46 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 >=20 > On 7/9/13 7:51 AM, "Hollenbeck, Scott" > wrote: >=20 > >This brings up a larger point: we still haven't made a decision about > how > >to document search functionality. rdap-query punts it to a document > that > >didn't exist when we first wrote rdap-query. Now we have > >draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and > >draft-zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group > >document. If we agree that basic search functionality needs to be > >documented we need to decide what it is and where it gets described. I > >don't think we can push rdap-query to IETF last call until we make a > >decision. > > > >My suggestion: either add the functions described in > >draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search > >and reference it. I tend to favor the former because it reduces the > >document count and puts a core set of client-sent commands in one > place. > >We can still explore more advanced search functionality in draft-zhou > as > >we see fit. >=20 > I it was John Levine who did a quick survey of current Whois search > functions and found that they are not anywhere close to universally > supported. >=20 > As lookups are by far the predominate query type, I think holding our > specs to get a feature that doesn't meet the 80/20 rule is imprudent, > especially when it can be added later with little fuss. Then rdap-query stills needs to be updated to close the loop on entity look= ups by name (which aren't supported) and to make it clear that the search s= tuff is being deferred to an unnamed (and possibly non-existent) additional= spec. Scott From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 16 07:13:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC9E721E804C for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:13:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.333, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pWbEEXznqJDl for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C199621F84A8 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 768591651ED; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:13:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE0581651E4; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:13:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:13:52 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:13:52 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: John R Levine Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOgi4zkkPcUlvruU2rrvLhc3tboZlnWQkA Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:13:51 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <195787BB38C86442B8C7CC9FACCF2DFD@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:13:59 -0000 On 7/16/13 10:10 AM, "John R Levine" wrote: >>>> I was going to suggest taking out the bit about base URLs. They add >>> no function, since anything you can do with a base URL you can do just >>> as well with a virtual domain, and they make the clients more complex. >> >> I'm hard pressed to see how it makes a client more complex. I've >>written a >> client and it bore no difference in the string manipulation code needed >> for acting on base urls. > >It makes the bootstrap harder, since it has to find a complete URL, not >just a host name. Care to elaborate? Because I ran into no such issue at all. > >> On the flip side, I'm in the middle of writing ARIN's server >> implementation and being forced to root the URL at a domain name only >>will >> cause issues with deploying the code on our current RESTful >> infrastructure. I'm not saying they are insurmountable, but its extra >> machinery and that always leads to more complexity. > >I thought we agreed that given that there will be far more clients than >servers, it's better to put the extra complexity on the server side. I agree when it makes a difference. But in this instance it does not. -andy From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 16 07:20:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F4721E8093 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:20:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.741 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.741 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.143, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PV04YdarO0A6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 118BA11E80C5 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id BBED71651F7; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13ED41651F5; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:20:13 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:20:13 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Marc Blanchet Thread-Topic: [weirds] bootstrap requirements Thread-Index: AQHOeNsZvzJ9OfEu6kaHqEsVqCFvtplnYYCAgABITQD//8OnAA== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:20:12 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <987DE7C7-F72A-4C2D-A7A6-B7E99473C54A@viagenie.ca> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE0ACDC326960andyarinnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:20:24 -0000 --_000_CE0ACDC326960andyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Marc Blanchet > Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:56 AM To: Andrew Newton > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up previously settle= d technical decisions. would you mind stating them? (I haven't seen a real concensus call on any = of them and I've seen different opinions on all of them) This WG hasn't been operating under formal consensus calls for technical is= sues. I think this is easily covered under the "we all know it when we see = it" measurement. Otherwise we get to open the XML vs. JSON debate, the HTTP= RESTful vs DNS debate etc=85 Most of our drafts have been getting decent r= eview on their revisions. If an item has been in a draft for sometime, espe= cially after having had some discussion on the list, and has not changed, t= hen it has been previously settled. -andy --_000_CE0ACDC326960andyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Marc Blanchet <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca>
Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:56 A= M
To: Andrew Newton <andy@arin.net>
Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" <= weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap req= uirements


I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up previously s= ettled technical decisions.

would you mind stating them?  (I haven't seen a real concensus ca= ll on any of them and I've seen different opinions on all of them)

This WG hasn't been operating under formal consensus calls for technic= al issues. I think this is easily covered under the "we all know it wh= en we see it" measurement. Otherwise we get to open the XML vs. JSON d= ebate, the HTTP RESTful vs DNS debate etc=85 Most of our drafts have been getting decent review on their revisions. If = an item has been in a draft for sometime, especially after having had some = discussion on the list, and has not changed, then it has been previously se= ttled.

-andy
--_000_CE0ACDC326960andyarinnet_-- From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 16 07:25:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C215511E80DF for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:25:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AftLT7itp-cj for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3BB11E80EE for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:25:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id A32CB1651FF; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4DB1651FC; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:25:00 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:25:00 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOcaDhZwAk+6LeDEKNGSgMWAVhv5lTXV4AgAAI2wCAAEijAIAHa8OAgAF6iwCACt0+AIAASmeA///AbgA= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:24:58 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEE9A6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <095887830FA7A8418CDCE697D95F16F8@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:25:14 -0000 On 7/16/13 10:12 AM, "Hollenbeck, Scott" wrote: >>Then rdap-query stills needs to be updated to close the loop on entity >>lookups by name (which aren't supported) and to make it clear that the >>search stuff is being deferred to an unnamed (and possibly non-existent) >>additional spec. Is this an ICANN requirement? I'm trying to remember where it comes from. Regardless, I doubt this meets the 80/20 rule as well. How many queries are entity lookup by name vs ip lookup by address or domain lookup by domain name? -andy From johnl@taugh.com Tue Jul 16 07:28:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E1B21F9CA6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:28:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.639 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.639 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zQBdsyD+rntA for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81DC921F9A4B for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:28:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 69299 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2013 14:27:49 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=10eb2.51e55865.k1307; bh=UONDueMOHfPhlcunue2JmnqFpRV4bgtJJ6lbHDp2QZo=; b=G1pSmS8Mru2shODQOUkvagOSM/Ftqm5BKqVizDoXYoE9UrwgByq9jhW+AVPfLaT/CZ6Fu6VXc+w4PfBlG5FlX3DhtOvhhItVWXRBE8ixub6pBahR5RFLHdyyUwTQSb9On5cUCoPigpgCSGzNaEQF7cXcjIk+19xCo2EVajxniE/QFt5mBJMrMS0IkALk8udnQLxNXT9WjMZYHAk5D7w5JXGzkiQqh6RGTidmJmqGsfBxpil9uG5yl9+GnM1/vxmV DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=10eb2.51e55865.k1307; bh=UONDueMOHfPhlcunue2JmnqFpRV4bgtJJ6lbHDp2QZo=; b=tMIPyO+xTaPUoL7BxWL1kWxMum6MtLmWVS+dk57ByWO8JOOFKMXl+BDRhZ34+ghJ3rkeYYXJhOLkK5ouZgAdb89pk/au9gcV1rMYsg05DC1uFCmaNxQjJn10LcNCUJDxe7Y2TJxRbSyJE7D+JpeJXs+xd9LP8HwmsTQFeHIfYL0Fr91SXA5qLSIrDRiw9pP2SgTHBppAhaMXArbsIK7XD1aiGh7YPDB3nh4vov3VZZXdtnsgvnGeuVZGZvaYgAtu Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Jul 2013 14:27:27 -0000 Date: 16 Jul 2013 10:27:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Andy Newton" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:28:46 -0000 >>> I'm hard pressed to see how it makes a client more complex. I've >>> written a client and it bore no difference in the string manipulation >>> code needed for acting on base urls. >> >> It makes the bootstrap harder, since it has to find a complete URL, not >> just a host name. > > Care to elaborate? Because I ran into no such issue at all. On the numbers side, it seems unlikely that there will be any bootstrap more complex than point your client at your local RIR or maybe use a lookup table you downloaded one time, and hope for the best, so I agree it's not a big deal there. On the names side, there are hundreds of TLDs now, and will be thousands, and it is utterly implausible that TLDs would agree to forward misdirected requests like RIRs do. The obvious bootstrap to use the TLD name as the key for a DNS lookup and tell all the TLDs to use the same URL format, e.g. http://.domain.rdap-servers.arpa/domain/foo. This bootstrap is trivial. If the bootstrap requires finding extra cruft to insert into the URL, it is far more complex. R's, John PS: Didn't we have this same discsussion a few weeks ago? From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Jul 16 07:45:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C1821E8090 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:45:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ThU2kI50f-5m for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og122.obsmtp.com (exprod6og122.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.238]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C8F621E808E for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob122.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUeVcmCBZARm2GtdusRGj3xJlYhLnLYdY@postini.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 07:45:47 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.205]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6GEjfPJ022315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:45:41 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:45:40 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andy Newton , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOcaDipF1J5KwVBUOVGoSoTbZSl5lTXV4AgAAI2wCAAEijAIAHH+tQgAF/qjCAC2cGAP//w9MwgABHAQD//7++8A== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:45:40 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEA4D@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEE9A6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:45:53 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Newton [mailto:andy@arin.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:25 AM > To: Hollenbeck, Scott; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 >=20 > On 7/16/13 10:12 AM, "Hollenbeck, Scott" > wrote: >=20 > >>Then rdap-query stills needs to be updated to close the loop on > entity > >>lookups by name (which aren't supported) and to make it clear that > the > >>search stuff is being deferred to an unnamed (and possibly non- > existent) > >>additional spec. >=20 > Is this an ICANN requirement? I'm trying to remember where it comes > from. >=20 > Regardless, I doubt this meets the 80/20 rule as well. How many queries > are entity lookup by name vs ip lookup by address or domain lookup by > domain name? Both John Levine and Ernie Dainow have asked about registrar lookups by nam= e, which we don't describe in rdap-query. In both cases I've pointed them t= o rdap-search, which isn't a WG draft. This type of lookup is a currently supported feature for .com and .net. I d= idn't check other TLDs so I don't know if others do it, too. I also don't k= now how many such queries Verisign receives, but I have someone looking int= o it. Scott From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Tue Jul 16 08:16:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A3A21E8091 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:16:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VEzAUBNnLoQ8 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7FB21E8087 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0F2A9403EE; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_54E939DF-1D0F-4D81-B00C-C911E402F4E7" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:16:06 -0400 Message-Id: References: To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:16:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_54E939DF-1D0F-4D81-B00C-C911E402F4E7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Le 2013-07-16 =E0 10:20, Andy Newton a =E9crit : > From: Marc Blanchet > Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:56 AM > To: Andrew Newton > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements >=20 >>>=20 >>> I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up previously = settled technical decisions. >>=20 >> would you mind stating them? (I haven't seen a real concensus call = on any of them and I've seen different opinions on all of them) >=20 >=20 > This WG hasn't been operating under formal consensus calls for = technical issues. I think this is easily covered under the "we all know = it when we see it" measurement. Otherwise we get to open the XML vs. = JSON debate, the HTTP RESTful vs DNS debate etc=85 Most of our drafts = have been getting decent review on their revisions. If an item has been = in a draft for sometime, especially after having had some discussion on = the list, and has not changed, then it has been previously settled. all fine. but it would really help (me at least) if you would be more = precise on "previously settled technical decisions" when you are = referring to bootstrap requirements/draft/discussion.=20 Marc. >=20 > -andy --Apple-Mail=_54E939DF-1D0F-4D81-B00C-C911E402F4E7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 andy@arin.net> a =E9crit :
From: Marc Blanchet <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca>= ;
Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 = 9:56 AM
To: Andrew Newton <andy@arin.net>
Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" <weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap = requirements


I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up = previously settled technical decisions.

would you mind stating them?  (I haven't seen a real concensus = call on any of them and I've seen different opinions on all of = them)

This WG hasn't been operating under formal consensus calls for = technical issues. I think this is easily covered under the "we all know = it when we see it" measurement. Otherwise we get to open the XML vs. = JSON debate, the HTTP RESTful vs DNS debate etc=85 Most of our drafts have been getting decent review on their revisions. = If an item has been in a draft for sometime, especially after having had = some discussion on the list, and has not changed, then it has been = previously = settled.

<= div>all fine. but it would really help (me at least) if you would be = more precise on "previously settled technical decisions" when you are = referring to bootstrap = requirements/draft/discussion. 

Marc.
<= br>

-andy

= --Apple-Mail=_54E939DF-1D0F-4D81-B00C-C911E402F4E7-- From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 16 08:28:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8251A21F9BAB for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:28:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.488 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.488 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.889, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G2LgVIARSzHJ for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:28:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 718B621F9AE7 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:28:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id E4A4D1651B5; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:28:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3076E165130; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:28:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:28:36 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:28:36 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: John R Levine Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOgi4zkkPcUlvruU2rrvLhc3tboZlnWQkAgABG9ID//83tAA== Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:28:35 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4C0EFC1B9482854AB048EFEC3422442F@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:28:46 -0000 On 7/16/13 10:27 AM, "John R Levine" wrote: >>>> I'm hard pressed to see how it makes a client more complex. I've >>>> written a client and it bore no difference in the string manipulation >>>> code needed for acting on base urls. >>> >>> It makes the bootstrap harder, since it has to find a complete URL, not >>> just a host name. >> >> Care to elaborate? Because I ran into no such issue at all. > >On the numbers side, it seems unlikely that there will be any bootstrap >more complex than point your client at your local RIR or maybe use a >lookup table you downloaded one time, and hope for the best, so I agree >it's not a big deal there. You are arguing that it impedes your favored method of bootstrap, not that it causes client code complexity which is where you started your objection. > >On the names side, there are hundreds of TLDs now, and will be thousands, >and it is utterly implausible that TLDs would agree to forward >misdirected=20 >requests like RIRs do. You keep saying this, but that isn't how the concept of a bootstrap server has been described. >The obvious bootstrap to use the TLD name as the key for a DNS lookup and >tell all the TLDs to use the same URL format, e.g. > >http://.domain.rdap-servers.arpa/domain/foo. > >This bootstrap is trivial. If the bootstrap requires finding extra cruft >to insert into the URL, it is far more complex. Extra cruft? Care to elaborate? As for code complexity: 1) your method { tld =3D domain.split( "\." ).last; url =3D "http://#{tld}.domain.rdap-servers.arpa/domain/#{domain} } # doesn't account for co.uk and the like 2) my way { url =3D "http://bootstrap.example/domain/#{domain}" } -andy From johnl@taugh.com Tue Jul 16 08:47:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3A821F99A0 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:47:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.637 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.637 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bDLTBGRFmqQp for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:47:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29E7721F9306 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:47:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 89846 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2013 15:47:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=15ef5.51e56b1c.k1307; bh=xehtg5+uzU5yCfVrxykfgk0Q2JspP8/T1KDFY96UoA0=; b=RDLXt7QCJfhyAFjx6TYvzjdi98cc0wo2y+B5ym6DpzPQfyEcm0mJpm6UAqNcTnYF0hB4iyrIc5yLtpcar1FThalsisuhlBbnQJFO0Pq4iM3s/Og3hzG3m/AWk4PR3m8ztvG1yGOFgXyr8UHJy3+zHmNjkht+K3l2mQo/RnMM1sIT+89AhEuOltvx06Lk/O3TRzbJMyP1tyVfp6fV5zHiFMcO7ZfibIAWKWwYV6/kKFWW5EENIDseycOAyUnYnr7a DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=15ef5.51e56b1c.k1307; bh=xehtg5+uzU5yCfVrxykfgk0Q2JspP8/T1KDFY96UoA0=; b=uhSOPfNJBICtxkgn2XdevikHWIFjgWFWu0+TLu/UZbR5C9kPJWZMN0XagPg50z6jk4nMrXowNjYtKyzo09h8EW3HaREyJDX4sZCGB56nAF8xmQcwGRfMbbRjad8FdZTs3m+TOSrPd5YP8irU/DOtyQKGknCHGoexI/6qdRUz0YbcZpbcnqp3IVKUGfwseUdreIOnPskqjkv7Csfh50JsXIZ+ilhiMbqcHJqMM6O3lA9yeK5ud2X3Je76pxeXXIME Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Jul 2013 15:47:18 -0000 Date: 16 Jul 2013 11:47:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Andy Newton" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; BOUNDARY="3825401791-1901540963-1373989660=:55360" Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 15:47:42 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --3825401791-1901540963-1373989660=:55360 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > You are arguing that it impedes your favored method of bootstrap, not that > it causes client code complexity which is where you started your objection. Um, the bootstrap is part of the client. >> On the names side, there are hundreds of TLDs now, and will be >> thousands, and it is utterly implausible that TLDs would agree to >> forward misdirected requests like RIRs do. > You keep saying this, but that isn't how the concept of a bootstrap server > has been described. Aw, come on. We've had lengthy arguments about exactly these issues on this list in the past month. ... > { url = "http://bootstrap.example/domain/#{domain}" } For numbers, it's basically what I said two messages ago, point your client at your RIR and it'll redirect you. For names, there is an enormous amount of WHOIS traffic to Verisign, large amounts to Afilias and maybe Neustar and a trickle to everyone else. An http bootstrap means that the bootstrap has to handle an RDAP load as great as Verisign's since they'll potentially be doing a redirect in front of every lookup. (Web caches don't help unless you expect people to be making the exact same query over and over.) While IANA has said they could do it if we asked them to, that seems like a lot of infrastructure for very little gain relative to a DNS bootstrap. Also, given the financial stakes in the domain community, a third party server that knows all or most of the RDAP queries people are making is going to have a bullseye painted on it, both to DoS and even more to steal the logs. A DNS bootstrap avoids those. Finally, in case it's not obvious, I see no reason that numbers and names need the same bootstrap. The questions and answers are different (some overlap, but basically different) and a different bootstrap is no big deal so long as it's simple. Yes, I know it makes the client a smidgen more complex. R's, John --3825401791-1901540963-1373989660=:55360 Content-Type: APPLICATION/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIIJCQYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIII+jCCCPYCAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqG SIb3DQEHAaCCBjowggY2MIIFHqADAgECAgMGLywwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAw gYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYD VQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYD VQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENs aWVudCBDQTAeFw0xMzAzMTYxOTQ0MDdaFw0xNDAzMTgxMjI4MzVaMFUxGTAX BgNVBA0TEHFaMXRuOTBuMkdVODZzemYxGDAWBgNVBAMMD2pvaG5sQHRhdWdo LmNvbTEeMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYPam9obmxAdGF1Z2guY29tMIIBIjANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAve/4NFMbuvtD6QSuXAoYQ0SkaO9s DiNHA4saJNV0OIXd6dtM87w7OETKWWVq24Ab6vQaYh218oCF1GDdLv6EiRB8 oL1k9sK2v70iAVT83vEnmaj6/hQVcBI6mZJH6LXyCgYSP2e5yBQqJu+hgLte bdg7kOKW2tb937jDn9KYRVFIlEU0/iu/b/Buwq3ahg2BsG3vg92Zk+Dv5VON QDLE8x8wdi1cor7qBY/RERw4O3LXo3644OU0t6KS3aQxLrXEvWZHHvLhsAu1 BjYbC+qdSddDT1t+adEnZq9/wMhNGhPWCd/uFDZanSpyM913b7eI1Q2aNgA0 cccjEgBsp8IipwIDAQABo4IC1TCCAtEwCQYDVR0TBAIwADALBgNVHQ8EBAMC BLAwHQYDVR0lBBYwFAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCCsGAQUFBwMEMB0GA1UdDgQWBBSL djRDW8NpGZJjlhjZ0SLge0hCvjAfBgNVHSMEGDAWgBRTcu2SnODaywFcfH6W NU7y1LhRgjAaBgNVHREEEzARgQ9qb2hubEB0YXVnaC5jb20wggFMBgNVHSAE ggFDMIIBPzCCATsGCysGAQQBgbU3AQIDMIIBKjAuBggrBgEFBQcCARYiaHR0 cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vcG9saWN5LnBkZjCB9wYIKwYBBQUHAgIw geowJxYgU3RhcnRDb20gQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBBdXRob3JpdHkwAwIBARqB vlRoaXMgY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgd2FzIGlzc3VlZCBhY2NvcmRpbmcgdG8gdGhl IENsYXNzIDEgVmFsaWRhdGlvbiByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgb2YgdGhlIFN0YXJ0 Q29tIENBIHBvbGljeSwgcmVsaWFuY2Ugb25seSBmb3IgdGhlIGludGVuZGVk IHB1cnBvc2UgaW4gY29tcGxpYW5jZSBvZiB0aGUgcmVseWluZyBwYXJ0eSBv YmxpZ2F0aW9ucy4wNgYDVR0fBC8wLTAroCmgJ4YlaHR0cDovL2NybC5zdGFy dHNzbC5jb20vY3J0dTEtY3JsLmNybDCBjgYIKwYBBQUHAQEEgYEwfzA5Bggr BgEFBQcwAYYtaHR0cDovL29jc3Auc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3N1Yi9jbGFzczEv Y2xpZW50L2NhMEIGCCsGAQUFBzAChjZodHRwOi8vYWlhLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNv bS9jZXJ0cy9zdWIuY2xhc3MxLmNsaWVudC5jYS5jcnQwIwYDVR0SBBwwGoYY aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQCM pgcOpxRJazPzEBYnhGENuQqzXeLyA3a8XL7YaxaAJwV7ucDVkyQHu35PUEkh vVgIKnxq6N9WxHiO6GK/imdwS3LrUBbs+0v+95m6YhJv6ZfvAHTyTLqrozXU ohR5NRFeL0p1OfK1llnl/I71Fe/JNgxJHDn1puzsFoJD3zYCKgNdST3FPNIb 2v/xIiubuB85tiJSWUlc56OkCdBK3ZgBnwYV8LxFmpOlwedaHC6sxIk1rsuX BHbRIJwLFy2LqVtNm0M5NzBVyPQf72lPn/aaJLbqY5DDm4/lSy94R+CKXabE 6lWan7xmbqdDDlMxGbpMRWV2Cxi5ONp4uNgNcwI6MYIClzCCApMCAQEwgZQw gYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYD VQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYD VQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENs aWVudCBDQQIDBi8sMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCggdgwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqG SIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTMwNzE2MTU0NzQwWjAjBgkqhkiG 9w0BCQQxFgQUm51TTU7/H+tEQfHfr6OQhOiJCV8weQYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMWww ajALBglghkgBZQMEASowCwYJYIZIAWUDBAEWMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBAjAKBggq hkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG9w0DAgICAIAwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICAUAwBwYFKw4D AgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAM3B7qf7vZ8ds ypxuDOUAGAWUopmGvYcH7KDXp7jjCtlTKDRLtOYru/siDoMNcW/DDqJ2XMqo aQup9acmP3SV2ROEsNrNf6D65QGgcdUD1r29yYZ5T3qcSMBnDahI7OU/snlS HcDUnaL0V9f7mMll0Ai3veDL5AwVDr4ubUwxRQauXpFV63JTtMwwTuWZz6tw Ajbxn3yNr93TrrxdQ5GJBrr88LWtf37FHQLWk56SG2LjjJKsL/f6Y4p+uzfz k0Gla3X5tMvz8tZ5FFIQKvP4oC4Bwsb21hnrXVbQrN7DF+lCbDF/9hYGPvr7 uu90GfnpGEtpjuT0E8iL88eJLhfnxg== --3825401791-1901540963-1373989660=:55360-- From edainow@afilias.info Tue Jul 16 09:24:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E80CB21F9ED4 for ; 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[199.15.87.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m63sm2165401yhb.10.2013.07.16.09.24.03 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:24:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:24:01 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John R Levine References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmLOEYhueEN0nqzO6OGe0ABimrIhMHkgk0IHOTrriDJg5wUXiZYNX9MK5e6hF+6UkMFM7NJj/ediN87q8lj8q7igdCvHrch67jTipPrMVZqlK2EiC8h+vFkWZM3aO/Wwy4Jf2AD Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:24:20 -0000 On 7/16/2013 11:47 AM, John R Levine wrote: > > ... > > For numbers, it's basically what I said two messages ago, point your > client at your RIR and it'll redirect you. > > For names, there is an enormous amount of WHOIS traffic to Verisign, > large amounts to Afilias and maybe Neustar and a trickle to everyone > else. An http bootstrap means that the bootstrap has to handle an > RDAP load as great as Verisign's since they'll potentially be doing a > redirect in front of every lookup. (Web caches don't help unless you > expect people to be making the exact same query over and over.) While > IANA has said they could do it if we asked them to, that seems like a > lot of infrastructure for very little gain relative to a DNS bootstrap. > > Also, given the financial stakes in the domain community, a third > party server that knows all or most of the RDAP queries people are > making is going to have a bullseye painted on it, both to DoS and even > more to steal the logs. A DNS bootstrap avoids those. > > Finally, in case it's not obvious, I see no reason that numbers and > names need the same bootstrap. The questions and answers are > different (some overlap, but basically different) and a different > bootstrap is no big deal so long as it's simple. Yes, I know it makes > the client a smidgen more complex. > Here is what I see as the key points in the bootstrap debate for names. The DNS solution seems simple from the client side, where the client simply uses http://.domain.rdap-servers.arpa/domain/foo. However, this solution has limitations because the server cannot be configured with a general url path. 1) all RDAP servers must be either http or https (http with redirect to https where necessary may address this adequately) 2) in a production environment it adds great flexibility to be able define a service with a url path. It is not clear that the DNS solution is worth giving up the flexibility of the url path. A url table for names is not so very different from a url table for numbers. While there are many more providers for names, the large bulk of registered domains (and presumably RDAP lookups) will be for the large established TLDs, so a table built into the client will probably handle 90% or more of RDAP requests. For TLDs not in the table, an RDAP redirector can be used and a smart client can cache the redirected url for future lookups. As new TLDs come on line, it will take some time before they have a large number of registered domains. If the clients update their tables once a year they will continue to handle the majority of RDAP requests from the url table without falling back to the redirector. In this scenario, I wouldn't necessarily expect names providers to provide redirects to other TLDs. It would be up to the client to use the correct url or else use the redirector. The redirector should not have to handle a lot of requests. If 'lazy programmers' don't use a lookup table and just use the redirector for every request, the redirector can use rate limiting. -Ernie From johnl@taugh.com Tue Jul 16 09:43:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B6011E80E9 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:43:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.635 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.635 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hKah3aKH3V7p for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED67411E80D7 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5893 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2013 16:43:40 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=1703.51e5783c.k1307; bh=FJ3cHjczeKd+qOzbtjSI50XBmhZYNp7MllhsdVbGS28=; b=Scur7lnnGcTBECShpQohai198HJ2HwrS3omSJIr7rACEoOpJ+CmQhcLPGhN1BhfMYtKfFJtocJwxFFlYunB+2j/aeJwguRDd9iZkHXkHbvdZmnpwwTWfyk1531a7m75HgN6EGlDEI4xsafKeQuZ0R1ZcwoRx8nhmcSV49Yv+11d4vTPHiOcR8WhzF9PN8POHtItlYs+WZ4wTaCStpJRillBP/akJ3YbUs/Ve8dEdjd0lmSbeeLi5Hm57R0F5LTfb DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=1703.51e5783c.k1307; bh=FJ3cHjczeKd+qOzbtjSI50XBmhZYNp7MllhsdVbGS28=; b=oUTxjexLfT1b6uyoIVKCRcAlrAtl35D+slv+eA1Fx6Dryng29Kh+9p8nDAzR3T8PBPgPBKaAB9OIa481h5lMw4hLwvG0XYKAQXvj6kGtBqtZqUsQ6CgIEK9feHYZrvOasT+kOgsRBzXV52JEcjmSoTvXzB/St9GdzAFVyxGIOzUxiILel37rj7XMSFW6VzTH2M1cPAN1t7DwsoOaADmMGrL/5aJwIU+eW+H6bPZ3W5woEA4faPG07jdfoczvTSI6 Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Jul 2013 16:43:18 -0000 Date: 16 Jul 2013 12:43:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Ernie Dainow" In-Reply-To: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> References: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:43:52 -0000 > However, this solution has limitations because the server cannot be > configured with a general url path. > 1) all RDAP servers must be either http or https (http with redirect to https > where necessary may address this adequately) Agreed. I was previously arguing that everyone should use https, but people with more https experience than me persuaded me otherwise. CA management is mess, particularly when you expect to have servers managed by hundreds of different organizations in every country of the world. SSL failures will be frequent, due to either config errors or clients not knowing about a server's favorite CA. Someone also noted that a later extension to add signatures to the JSON return values would not be hard, either what JOSE is doing or something much simpler with a signed hash of a canonicalized JSON string. > 2) in a production environment it adds great flexibility to be able define a > service with a url path. In an Apache web server it is literally a minute's work to create server config rules to rewrite URLs to map into whatever crufty underlying structure you want. I've done it more times than I can remember. Ditto Nginx. Ditto lighttpd. Ditto application level frameworks like Werkzeug. What kind of web servers do registries use that can't do that? R's, John From michael@mwyoung.ca Tue Jul 16 09:51:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE75A21E8083 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:51:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8-UFaDYtH5VN for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-f169.google.com (mail-ie0-f169.google.com [209.85.223.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00FAC21E8050 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 10so2147468ied.28 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:51:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=SBInqaHQsREFrKzECQ2zZNwaHl398+ixIdTtNS9uuJ8=; b=mYbT1puEJq2M8cwFYSLjOZ7VPbK1EtcBBKBz5eERyA19A7Ieh9tfmxU3WUNv/RhdEo ttOTdp9rkgToPIEJfs35YsQyGaRhgSReJbuFNL02EOsK+Q7A29Jz+WSeSjghKJYc0LfT s7sI+iKz6YUJhbvMxh1IupxqXMJwul6QdWdCEc/6VlQX+zRmUv0GVUdAqpwY5w8b14Zj DXeggDWYOMI8BweZSs4YwUxE2qb87R7xfMRLryzF4dKTCY4w9LTpMAvXk5c/b6AS+kAw tjHmr6UPWXpmRvGY5g/imClRaOdGlZe0B8LB57M+FH8r95JcUzsup3JfJXhEYjL7T+1B LfgA== X-Received: by 10.42.80.9 with SMTP id t9mr1821101ick.14.1373993471419; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.1.44] (CPE74d02b4255c8-CM78cd8ece2635.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [173.32.3.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id vc13sm2403558igb.1.2013.07.16.09.51.09 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_726F333D-B35A-45BF-A7F5-9673C4F32532" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: MICHAEL YOUNG In-Reply-To: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:51:07 -0400 Message-Id: References: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> To: Ernie Dainow X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmxpYByjaaQgbx9InXehCqpozR1CTFG9nWX2GNRrVUVQsUUkJyxy86EOZ+SKsB+w6kSe8d5 Cc: John R Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:51:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_726F333D-B35A-45BF-A7F5-9673C4F32532 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Has everyone looked the ICANN proposal for centralized RDDS for = Registries and Registrars (GTLDs)? Seems like a contributing factor to = this discussion. This would just leave the ccTLDs running their own Whois. -Michael On 2013-07-16, at 12:24 PM, Ernie Dainow wrote: >=20 > On 7/16/2013 11:47 AM, John R Levine wrote: >>=20 >> ... >>=20 >> For numbers, it's basically what I said two messages ago, point your = client at your RIR and it'll redirect you. >>=20 >> For names, there is an enormous amount of WHOIS traffic to Verisign, = large amounts to Afilias and maybe Neustar and a trickle to everyone = else. An http bootstrap means that the bootstrap has to handle an RDAP = load as great as Verisign's since they'll potentially be doing a = redirect in front of every lookup. (Web caches don't help unless you = expect people to be making the exact same query over and over.) While = IANA has said they could do it if we asked them to, that seems like a = lot of infrastructure for very little gain relative to a DNS bootstrap. >>=20 >> Also, given the financial stakes in the domain community, a third = party server that knows all or most of the RDAP queries people are = making is going to have a bullseye painted on it, both to DoS and even = more to steal the logs. A DNS bootstrap avoids those. >>=20 >> Finally, in case it's not obvious, I see no reason that numbers and = names need the same bootstrap. The questions and answers are different = (some overlap, but basically different) and a different bootstrap is no = big deal so long as it's simple. Yes, I know it makes the client a = smidgen more complex. >>=20 >=20 > Here is what I see as the key points in the bootstrap debate for = names. >=20 > The DNS solution seems simple from the client side, where the client = simply uses > http://.domain.rdap-servers.arpa/domain/foo. >=20 > However, this solution has limitations because the server cannot be = configured with a general url path. > 1) all RDAP servers must be either http or https (http with redirect = to https where necessary may address this adequately) > 2) in a production environment it adds great flexibility to be able = define a service with a url path. >=20 > It is not clear that the DNS solution is worth giving up the = flexibility of the url path. A url table for names is not so very = different from a url table for numbers. While there are many more = providers for names, the large bulk of registered domains (and = presumably RDAP lookups) will be for the large established TLDs, so a = table built into the client will probably handle 90% or more of RDAP = requests. For TLDs not in the table, an RDAP redirector can be used and = a smart client can cache the redirected url for future lookups. As new = TLDs come on line, it will take some time before they have a large = number of registered domains. If the clients update their tables once a = year they will continue to handle the majority of RDAP requests from the = url table without falling back to the redirector. >=20 > In this scenario, I wouldn't necessarily expect names providers to = provide redirects to other TLDs. It would be up to the client to use the = correct url or else use the redirector. >=20 > The redirector should not have to handle a lot of requests. If 'lazy = programmers' don't use a lookup table and just use the redirector for = every request, the redirector can use rate limiting. >=20 > -Ernie >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds MICHAEL YOUNG michael@mwyoung.ca --Apple-Mail=_726F333D-B35A-45BF-A7F5-9673C4F32532 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii edainow@afilias.info> = wrote:

On 7/16/2013 11:47 AM, John R Levine = wrote:

...

For numbers, it's = basically what I said two messages ago, point your client at your RIR = and it'll redirect you.

For names, there is an enormous amount of = WHOIS traffic to Verisign, large amounts to Afilias and maybe Neustar = and a trickle to everyone else.  An http bootstrap means that the = bootstrap has to handle an RDAP load as great as Verisign's since = they'll potentially be doing a redirect in front of every lookup. =  (Web caches don't help unless you expect people to be making the = exact same query over and over.)  While IANA has said they could do = it if we asked them to, that seems like a lot of infrastructure for very = little gain relative to a DNS bootstrap.

Also, given the = financial stakes in the domain community, a third party server that = knows all or most of the RDAP queries people are making is going to have = a bullseye painted on it, both to DoS and even more to steal the logs. =  A DNS bootstrap avoids those.

Finally, in case it's not = obvious, I see no reason that numbers and names need the same bootstrap. =  The questions and answers are different (some overlap, but = basically different) and a different bootstrap is no big deal so long as = it's simple.  Yes, I know it makes the client a smidgen more = complex.


Here is what I see as the key points in = the bootstrap debate for names.

The DNS solution seems simple = from the client side, where the client simply = uses
http://<tld>.domain.rdap-servers.arpa/domain/foo.<tld>=

However, this solution has limitations because the server cannot = be configured with a general url path.
1) all RDAP servers must be = either http or https (http with redirect to https where necessary may = address this adequately)
2) in a production environment it adds great = flexibility to be able define a service with a url path.

It is = not clear that the DNS solution is worth giving up the flexibility of = the url path. A url table for names is not so very different from a url = table for numbers. While there are many more providers for names, the = large bulk of registered domains (and presumably RDAP lookups) will be = for the large established TLDs, so a table built into the client will = probably handle 90% or more of RDAP requests. For TLDs not in the table, = an RDAP redirector can be used and a smart client can cache the = redirected url for future lookups. As new TLDs come on line, it will = take some time before they have a large number of registered domains. If = the clients update their tables once a year they will continue to handle = the majority of RDAP requests from the url table without falling back to = the redirector.

In this scenario, I wouldn't necessarily expect = names providers to provide redirects to other TLDs. It would be up to = the client to use the correct url or else use the redirector.

The = redirector should not have to handle a lot of requests. If 'lazy = programmers' don't use a lookup table and just use the redirector for = every request, the redirector can use rate = limiting.

-Ernie


_______________________________________= ________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds




MICHAEL = YOUNG




= --Apple-Mail=_726F333D-B35A-45BF-A7F5-9673C4F32532-- From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 16 09:51:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771B321E809E for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:51:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.800, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mRjSnBSTY-kr for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B39A221E8050 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 531E1164FBE; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:51:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 646A3164F7F; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:51:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:51:16 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:51:15 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Marc Blanchet Thread-Topic: [weirds] bootstrap requirements Thread-Index: AQHOeNsZvzJ9OfEu6kaHqEsVqCFvtplnYYCAgABITQD//8OnAIAAUqwA///XboA= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:50:53 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE0ADF2D269B4andyarinnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:51:24 -0000 --_000_CE0ADF2D269B4andyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Marc Blanchet > Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:16 AM To: Andrew Newton > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements Le 2013-07-16 =E0 10:20, Andy Newton > = a =E9crit : From: Marc Blanchet > Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:56 AM To: Andrew Newton > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up previously settle= d technical decisions. would you mind stating them? (I haven't seen a real concensus call on any = of them and I've seen different opinions on all of them) This WG hasn't been operating under formal consensus calls for technical is= sues. I think this is easily covered under the "we all know it when we see = it" measurement. Otherwise we get to open the XML vs. JSON debate, the HTTP= RESTful vs DNS debate etc=85 Most of our drafts have been getting decent r= eview on their revisions. If an item has been in a draft for sometime, espe= cially after having had some discussion on the list, and has not changed, t= hen it has been previously settled. all fine. but it would really help (me at least) if you would be more preci= se on "previously settled technical decisions" when you are referring to bo= otstrap requirements/draft/discussion. In the context of the current disagreement on bootstrapping, the matter of = allowing servers to have a base path in the URL has been in the rdap-query = draft for some time and was discussed on this list (though briefly). The de= sire to remove this flexibility is surfacing now because the CNAME bootstra= p approach cannot accommodate it. I'd also like to point out one more bootstrap nice-to-have. The bootstrap m= ethod should be flexible enough to accommodate federated authentication, su= ch as a ticket server. That is, if ICANN or some authority wanted to stand = up a ticket server that allowed LEAs differentiated access, it would be nic= e if the bootstrap method made that as seamless as possible. I hope that ma= kes sense. -andy --_000_CE0ADF2D269B4andyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <0737CD5584954947AD0A6C7F60D4BE5B@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Marc Blanchet <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca>
Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:16 = AM
To: Andrew Newton <andy@arin.net>
Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" <= weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap req= uirements

Le 2013-07-16 =E0 10:20, Andy Newton <andy@arin.net> a =E9crit :

From: Marc Blanchet <marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca>
Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 9:56 A= M
To: Andrew Newton <andy@arin.net>
Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" <= weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap req= uirements


I have one additional one: Does not require us to open up previously s= ettled technical decisions.

would you mind stating them?  (I haven't seen a real concensus ca= ll on any of them and I've seen different opinions on all of them)

This WG hasn't been operating under formal consensus calls for technic= al issues. I think this is easily covered under the "we all know it wh= en we see it" measurement. Otherwise we get to open the XML vs. JSON d= ebate, the HTTP RESTful vs DNS debate etc=85 Most of our drafts have been getting decent review on their revisions. If = an item has been in a draft for sometime, especially after having had some = discussion on the list, and has not changed, then it has been previously se= ttled.

all fine. but it would really help (me at least) if you would be more = precise on "previously settled technical decisions" when you are = referring to bootstrap requirements/draft/discussion. 

In the context of the current disagreement on bootstrapping, the matter of = allowing servers to have a base path in the URL has been in the rdap-query = draft for some time and was discussed on this list (though briefly). The de= sire to remove this flexibility is surfacing now because the CNAME bootstrap approach cannot accommodate i= t.

I'd also like to point out one more bootstrap nice-to-have. The bootst= rap method should be flexible enough to accommodate federated authenticatio= n, such as a ticket server. That is, if ICANN or some authority wanted to s= tand up a ticket server that allowed LEAs differentiated access, it would be nice if the bootstrap method made = that as seamless as possible. I hope that makes sense.

-andy
--_000_CE0ADF2D269B4andyarinnet_-- From johnl@iecc.com Tue Jul 16 09:57:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A0611E80F6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:57:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.434, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nuFTss9Yu8wZ for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 273E521E8088 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 9127 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2013 16:56:46 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2013 16:56:46 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51e57b4e.xn--i8sz2z.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=ABlYPn3xWllisJSxZ635pmvVfYpQnCoD1ojWgi5Kx64=; b=RSkXqistyFn9XiWzPD4+qoMUJKDAOagciQIY+oqyNV+750/qzVVu+Ay9hDm4ELSk+6/Le1zvM9HXIrEirgVm6Y7ouD6+ebZrvk3ZgL8pmM8X6ALAfn1cj1pCcpji+2nsfsAREXaR8pXwnOwSRRrcS/2nSgoMfHeIvKpk8pGZBe4OjGufxmtClOwVCyMLoY2nXkfKUlLzSpg7IhascX190WyB2YPOW6ACYh1rXWUDhWpgvDJnO4QolBO6kMcvnFEc DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51e57b4e.xn--i8sz2z.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=ABlYPn3xWllisJSxZ635pmvVfYpQnCoD1ojWgi5Kx64=; b=i0fmPXIJ//SxWJsbOUtFs8qNGkbeKPR92pm2QctHP6GdLkDQA8wbgoasIvjDXlGj5FCF9wc/x7ZrpMgbBY42be5BfmhzhmmkvK0EMg63N0Qkr1bxMJvf+f6bCXi5v2GqrcrbJ0+kpIQ/S2DbbYKXwppNcEL8Q37dkrjJsbiDQmWh9Xwft3xCeqaMHT+jF1UNT402Cabzy/D0xTvFkGRSOqlbvFME+qtmREkOGpkfYk9DHsXsUKp1KoufK81XwC3R Date: 16 Jul 2013 16:56:24 -0000 Message-ID: <20130716165624.55823.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:57:21 -0000 In article you write: >-=-=-=-=-=- >-=-=-=-=-=- > >Has everyone looked the ICANN proposal for centralized RDDS for Registries and Registrars >(GTLDs)? Seems like a contributing factor to this discussion. > >This would just leave the ccTLDs running their own Whois. You're right, but since there are over 200 ccTLDs, I don't see a bootstap issue for 200 TLDs as very different from 2000. Also, it will be years if ever before the RDDS happens, but many of the new TLD applicants say in their application that they'll implement WEIRDS if we get it done. From superuser@gmail.com Tue Jul 16 10:01:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECA5121F9BD8 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:01:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cgZ-Y-Lr57wn for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22c.google.com (mail-wi0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2E5011E80D7 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f172.google.com with SMTP id c10so4399209wiw.17 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:01:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=9aRY1uK3dnThKtdfhMXCeTrLYhkikaSTRi+Xl9AW6oA=; b=o0d+NM8GQQ7SHVN79E7YxAS5DVKTy3SR9/JN7jDdPoDiGpv2mtXYjOZUAW3Jwnwsse z0AbNgcRUiMPwrxDLhMUE210A48GNpzHFvYrZU3vvwpO6ONtm+pn1rMntzOYZ0GZcmD4 F4y4nijU9Up2leohZeKzgZxdu1OdROb8tlxOfUKzUgdueulvhkKDA2lVVeqh/jyC68nm 2dhvFkvKGc3mj6EIoIacUm4yYXPx44iR1zfW4ybkwZqrdVnPG6+KrPu8CBzSi8T+uBh/ 1Kq4DSs20I/44b0Zof+VaKLwtzIYaWWWv491YMgHSarfWgzM45Y6afie3dwzf3soGWhX 4ODQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.189.102 with SMTP id gh6mr1878996wic.19.1373994104836; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:01:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:01:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:01:44 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Andy Newton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3436a8adc0904e1a3eef7 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:01:47 -0000 --001a11c3436a8adc0904e1a3eef7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > In the context of the current disagreement on bootstrapping, the matter > of allowing servers to have a base path in the URL has been in the > rdap-query draft for some time and was discussed on this list (though > briefly). The desire to remove this flexibility is surfacing now because > the CNAME bootstrap approach cannot accommodate it. > > Just to be clear, the working group is allowed to change its mind. If we collectively decide A, but then someone points out something we hadn't considered and consensus swings to B, that's perfectly acceptable. Put another way: Given some previous decision and some new information, I think it's just fine for the WG to consider whether the previous decision stands up to the new information. Consensus might change or it might not, but that re-evaluation is a reasonable use of (some) working group time. On the other hand, if that new information doesn't really change or add to the premises on which the decision was reached, we need to keep moving. -MSK, co-chairin' --001a11c3436a8adc0904e1a3eef7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Andy Newton <andy@arin.net> wrote:
In the context of the current disagreement on bootstrapping, the matter of = allowing servers to have a base path in the URL has been in the rdap-query = draft for some time and was discussed on this list (though briefly). The de= sire to remove this flexibility is surfacing now because the CNAME bootstrap approach cannot accommodate i= t.


Just to be clear, the= working group is allowed to change its mind.=A0 If we collectively decide = A, but then someone points out something we hadn't considered and conse= nsus swings to B, that's perfectly acceptable.

Put another way: Given some previous decision and= some new information, I think it's just fine for the WG to consider wh= ether the previous decision stands up to the new information.=A0 Consensus = might change or it might not, but that re-evaluation is a reasonable use of= (some) working group time.=A0 On the other hand, if that new information d= oesn't really change or add to the premises on which the decision was r= eached, we need to keep moving.

-MSK, co-chairin'
--001a11c3436a8adc0904e1a3eef7-- From superuser@gmail.com Tue Jul 16 10:18:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A1AF21E809F for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:18:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WZI2e-N18I-6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22b.google.com (mail-wg0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCE8A21E809A for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id z11so853403wgg.34 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:18:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=kWuotokPprcTKW2R4Avs2h8fEEochVxAXt5iJT91LPk=; b=l3Zd1JzZC2XCdrAijFbzZJsaZoRQLQz9C6I2aT/+6kbEGFWptmuMsR06nYIxaN5G/k 9VgT+OBbJu8MkDJa1r8w/5OQwt78Hx7gBO+IswN6yH4R7cI5fkP1o+F7+YHt4axEBx5S 3xwItGIe/Q1z1MI5Cr/1YTtJxb3h9GMTud22wz40WmfD/FjVF8BlkRgucCl89nPTKXT7 UnIMoj79Qsv1u5M7WNUpWJkfvVQ1MC+evI0Y8vNU+WPVHkalXQ0o1xQPE3yIUEPueaw5 6cqCIawnpfigWf+qxeDV6Wi4/OH0xSoHog0T17AWXZm+PaT/t3X6DLvdXVcRnhXUDe/K /BGQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.48.116 with SMTP id k20mr2070935wjn.23.1373995118968; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:18:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> References: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:18:38 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Pete Resnick Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7ba975e6fd474e04e1a42a88 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:18:42 -0000 --047d7ba975e6fd474e04e1a42a88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Pete Resnick wrote: > On 7/15/13 7:06 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > >> ...is now available; feedback welcome: >> >> http://www.ietf.org/**proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-**87-weirds >> > > I have some feedback: > > Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) >> Agenda -- August 1, 2013 at 10:30-11:30 in Potsdam 2 >> >> - Administrivia (10 mins; chairs) >> - blue sheets >> - minute-taker and jabber scribe >> > > Yes, all fine, though I would suggest finding the minute-taker and jabber > scribe before the meeting. Asking for volunteers now would be good. Those > two items should take 2 minutes tops. > Any volunteers? > > - Demo/interop report (5 mins; TBD) >> > > I take it this is intended to be a report of the interop/demo event on the > previous Saturday. The WG session is on Thursday. Again, this report should > be sent out to the list. If something comes out of the report that needs > discussion (a bug in one of the specs), that should be added to the agenda > separately. I see no need for a report being on the agenda. > The last interop event led to some discussion, and I was anticipating the same here. I was anticipating the need for face time to discuss the fallout rather than just present a report. My fault for the lousy naming. > - Redirects (10 mins; Carlos Martinez) >> > > What is there to discuss on this draft? The list discussion seems to be > quiet. > > - Search (10 mins; Ning Kong) >> > > What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion (or lack of > discussion) on the list does this relate to? > > Carlos and Ning, can you give a list of issues you'd like to cover? On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal with this. We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search and advanced search document or something else, but I think that was before John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today. The group needs to pick a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search capability could be rolled into the rdap-query document fairly easily (I think...). -MSK --047d7ba975e6fd474e04e1a42a88 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Pete Resnick <pr= esnick@qti.qualcomm.com> wrote:
On 7/15/13 7:06 PM, Murray= S. Kucherawy wrote:
...is now available; feedback welcome:

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-87-weirds

I have some feedback:

Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS)
Agenda -- August 1, 2013 at 10:30-11:30 in Potsdam 2

- Administrivia (10 mins; chairs)
=A0 - blue sheets
=A0 - minute-taker and jabber scribe

Yes, all fine, though I would suggest finding the minute-taker and jabber s= cribe before the meeting. Asking for volunteers now would be good. Those tw= o items should take 2 minutes tops.

Any volunteers?
=A0

- Demo/interop report (5 mins; TBD)

I take it this is intended to be a report of the interop/demo event on the = previous Saturday. The WG session is on Thursday. Again, this report should= be sent out to the list. If something comes out of the report that needs d= iscussion (a bug in one of the specs), that should be added to the agenda s= eparately. I see no need for a report being on the agenda.

The last interop event led to some discussion, = and I was anticipating the same here.=A0 I was anticipating the need for fa= ce time to discuss the fallout rather than just present a report.=A0 My fau= lt for the lousy naming.


- Redirects (10 mins; Carlos Martinez)

What is there to discuss on this draft? The list discussion seems to be qui= et.

- Search (10 mins; Ning Kong)

What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion (or lack of discus= sion) on the list does this relate to?


Carlos and Ning, can you= give a list of issues you'd like to cover?

On the s= earch issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal with this.=A0= We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search and advanced = search document or something else, but I think that was before John's s= urvey that showed they're nearly non-existent today.=A0 The group needs= to pick a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search capability could= be rolled into the rdap-query document fairly easily (I think...).

-MSK
--047d7ba975e6fd474e04e1a42a88-- From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Tue Jul 16 10:20:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4FC21E8082 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:20:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pq2H9fIQQmJ6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:20:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6827611E80D7 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7E8F3403EE; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_97DDD070-0396-4A69-A2C3-2B2CE70B3E72" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:20:02 -0400 Message-Id: <3BEF79F1-47AD-49C3-9E61-731F813EAA3A@viagenie.ca> References: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> To: MICHAEL YOUNG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: John R Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:20:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_97DDD070-0396-4A69-A2C3-2B2CE70B3E72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Le 2013-07-16 =E0 12:51, MICHAEL YOUNG a =E9crit : > Has everyone looked the ICANN proposal for centralized RDDS for = Registries and Registrars (GTLDs)? =20 yes. > Seems like a contributing factor to this discussion. right, we need to make sure (however, the work is still preliminary) = that our bootstrap works in this context but also works with a) the = current context (in case it does not go anywhere), b) with other tlds = (cctlds). btw, both dns-based and IANA-registries based approaches work. = =20 I have one slide discussing this for our bootstrap discussion.=20 Marc. >=20 > This would just leave the ccTLDs running their own Whois. >=20 > -Michael >=20 > On 2013-07-16, at 12:24 PM, Ernie Dainow wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On 7/16/2013 11:47 AM, John R Levine wrote: >>>=20 >>> ... >>>=20 >>> For numbers, it's basically what I said two messages ago, point your = client at your RIR and it'll redirect you. >>>=20 >>> For names, there is an enormous amount of WHOIS traffic to Verisign, = large amounts to Afilias and maybe Neustar and a trickle to everyone = else. An http bootstrap means that the bootstrap has to handle an RDAP = load as great as Verisign's since they'll potentially be doing a = redirect in front of every lookup. (Web caches don't help unless you = expect people to be making the exact same query over and over.) While = IANA has said they could do it if we asked them to, that seems like a = lot of infrastructure for very little gain relative to a DNS bootstrap. >>>=20 >>> Also, given the financial stakes in the domain community, a third = party server that knows all or most of the RDAP queries people are = making is going to have a bullseye painted on it, both to DoS and even = more to steal the logs. A DNS bootstrap avoids those. >>>=20 >>> Finally, in case it's not obvious, I see no reason that numbers and = names need the same bootstrap. The questions and answers are different = (some overlap, but basically different) and a different bootstrap is no = big deal so long as it's simple. Yes, I know it makes the client a = smidgen more complex. >>>=20 >>=20 >> Here is what I see as the key points in the bootstrap debate for = names. >>=20 >> The DNS solution seems simple from the client side, where the client = simply uses >> http://.domain.rdap-servers.arpa/domain/foo. >>=20 >> However, this solution has limitations because the server cannot be = configured with a general url path. >> 1) all RDAP servers must be either http or https (http with redirect = to https where necessary may address this adequately) >> 2) in a production environment it adds great flexibility to be able = define a service with a url path. >>=20 >> It is not clear that the DNS solution is worth giving up the = flexibility of the url path. A url table for names is not so very = different from a url table for numbers. While there are many more = providers for names, the large bulk of registered domains (and = presumably RDAP lookups) will be for the large established TLDs, so a = table built into the client will probably handle 90% or more of RDAP = requests. For TLDs not in the table, an RDAP redirector can be used and = a smart client can cache the redirected url for future lookups. As new = TLDs come on line, it will take some time before they have a large = number of registered domains. If the clients update their tables once a = year they will continue to handle the majority of RDAP requests from the = url table without falling back to the redirector. >>=20 >> In this scenario, I wouldn't necessarily expect names providers to = provide redirects to other TLDs. It would be up to the client to use the = correct url or else use the redirector. >>=20 >> The redirector should not have to handle a lot of requests. If 'lazy = programmers' don't use a lookup table and just use the redirector for = every request, the redirector can use rate limiting. >>=20 >> -Ernie >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > MICHAEL YOUNG > michael@mwyoung.ca >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail=_97DDD070-0396-4A69-A2C3-2B2CE70B3E72 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 michael@mwyoung.ca> a =E9crit = :

Seems like a = contributing factor to this = discussion.

right, we need = to make sure (however, the work is still preliminary) that our bootstrap = works in this context but also works with a) the current context (in = case it does not go anywhere), b) with other tlds (cctlds). btw, both = dns-based and IANA-registries based approaches work.  
I = have one slide discussing this for our bootstrap = discussion. 

Marc.

edainow@afilias.info> = wrote:


On 7/16/2013 11:47 AM, John R Levine = wrote:

...

For numbers, it's = basically what I said two messages ago, point your client at your RIR = and it'll redirect you.

For names, there is an enormous amount of = WHOIS traffic to Verisign, large amounts to Afilias and maybe Neustar = and a trickle to everyone else.  An http bootstrap means that the = bootstrap has to handle an RDAP load as great as Verisign's since = they'll potentially be doing a redirect in front of every lookup. =  (Web caches don't help unless you expect people to be making the = exact same query over and over.)  While IANA has said they could do = it if we asked them to, that seems like a lot of infrastructure for very = little gain relative to a DNS bootstrap.

Also, given the = financial stakes in the domain community, a third party server that = knows all or most of the RDAP queries people are making is going to have = a bullseye painted on it, both to DoS and even more to steal the logs. =  A DNS bootstrap avoids those.

Finally, in case it's not = obvious, I see no reason that numbers and names need the same bootstrap. =  The questions and answers are different (some overlap, but = basically different) and a different bootstrap is no big deal so long as = it's simple.  Yes, I know it makes the client a smidgen more = complex.


Here is what I see as the key points in = the bootstrap debate for names.

The DNS solution seems simple = from the client side, where the client simply = uses
http://<tld>.domain.rdap-servers.arpa/domain/foo.<tld>=

However, this solution has limitations because the server cannot = be configured with a general url path.
1) all RDAP servers must be = either http or https (http with redirect to https where necessary may = address this adequately)
2) in a production environment it adds great = flexibility to be able define a service with a url path.

It is = not clear that the DNS solution is worth giving up the flexibility of = the url path. A url table for names is not so very different from a url = table for numbers. While there are many more providers for names, the = large bulk of registered domains (and presumably RDAP lookups) will be = for the large established TLDs, so a table built into the client will = probably handle 90% or more of RDAP requests. For TLDs not in the table, = an RDAP redirector can be used and a smart client can cache the = redirected url for future lookups. As new TLDs come on line, it will = take some time before they have a large number of registered domains. If = the clients update their tables once a year they will continue to handle = the majority of RDAP requests from the url table without falling back to = the redirector.

In this scenario, I wouldn't necessarily expect = names providers to provide redirects to other TLDs. It would be up to = the client to use the correct url or else use the redirector.

The = redirector should not have to handle a lot of requests. If 'lazy = programmers' don't use a lookup table and just use the redirector for = every request, the redirector can use rate = limiting.

-Ernie


_______________________________________= ________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/weirds




MICHAEL = YOUNG




_______________________________________________
weirds = mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds

= --Apple-Mail=_97DDD070-0396-4A69-A2C3-2B2CE70B3E72-- From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Tue Jul 16 10:23:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1673811E80DF for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:23:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.793 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.793 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.047, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CsPE7JM0HRNP for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (ow5p.x.rootbsd.net [208.79.81.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FD8E11E80E9 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (nat-08-mht.dyndns.com [216.146.45.247]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 623BE8A031 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:22:57 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:22:56 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20130716172256.GJ23286@mx1.yitter.info> References: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:23:05 -0000 On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 12:51:07PM -0400, MICHAEL YOUNG wrote: > Has everyone looked the ICANN proposal for centralized RDDS for Registries and Registrars (GTLDs)? Seems like a contributing factor to this discussion. If by "contributing factor" you mean "something to point and laugh at", I would agree. Not to put too fine a point on it, the evidence from ICANN's performance with the recent TAS and other data projects (the automation of the root zone registry is another one, although it was nothing like the dramatic failure of the TAS) suggests that database operations is not ICANN's strongest suit. Also, while WEIRDS actually can provide a mechanism for all old whois clients to continue working, the centralized RDDS proposal breaks the entire world in one go. Except, of course, for some ccTLDs. What a wonderful idea. Best, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From superuser@gmail.com Tue Jul 16 10:26:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 861A821E8091 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:26:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JWtgdivdoEV3 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22a.google.com (mail-wg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6C121E8086 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id z11so3890733wgg.5 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:26:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=+SRiOicHscc2tzKZTj67kiQdc0hIQRyCtaknxRo0nww=; b=dWeS1rJkl9cGx/tFt3g/iyenqY0wpvAumVITJ2PmP0Zv/qQwhpzNpL2p8wJb43lofR D2or9zXsG6ZOyFVzoSaOBjy5+NMlZX+XTX+nBZANGvGxgkzy9TD6xw/fgJASrifkqRvy ESHWjxRRNIUM14r7cExm6K1/gMldbBZMLt6vxu2dnmChSoP8Lj/4ALXQxV4WGs0NEEtw 6BhUpiuLPiHUGloEvHRiPcKNOx8e4V2dO59KyAbrqK7n2dU7ipnGYFxU+8cDVp3GVKEr gII1Ed/RFfsB9mynCVTlV9jyy1f1EHKCOqucM4ZqV5tXtGZ59+tiSvazvXjZ7qlJCUO2 ulug== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.122.71 with SMTP id lq7mr1952320wjb.77.1373995590591; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:26:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE70F4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> <7ACFEBF0-A253-48D7-AB5E-73AE91DBC3AB@viagenie.ca> <51D48222.5030407@afilias.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE5AD4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE70F4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:26:30 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122975019ac1604e1a4470c Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:26:33 -0000 --089e0122975019ac1604e1a4470c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > This brings up a larger point: we still haven't made a decision about how > to document search functionality. rdap-query punts it to a document that > didn't exist when we first wrote rdap-query. Now we have > draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and > draft-zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group > document. If we agree that basic search functionality needs to be > documented we need to decide what it is and where it gets described. I > don't think we can push rdap-query to IETF last call until we make a > decision. > > My suggestion: either add the functions described in > draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search and > reference it. I tend to favor the former because it reduces the document > count and puts a core set of client-sent commands in one place. We can > still explore more advanced search functionality in draft-zhou as we see > fit. > > I provided a reply as an individual on this, but I've been the only one. Can others weigh in? We need to decide on a path forward, but so far I'm the only respondent, which is hardly consensus. Thanks, -MSK --089e0122975019ac1604e1a4470c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott <shollenbeck@verisign.com> wrote:
This brings up a larger point: we still have= n't made a decision about how to document search functionality. rdap-qu= ery punts it to a document that didn't exist when we first wrote rdap-q= uery. Now we have draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and draft-zhou-weirds= -rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group document. If we agree = that basic search functionality needs to be documented we need to decide wh= at it is and where it gets described. I don't think we can push rdap-qu= ery to IETF last call until we make a decision.

My suggestion: either add the functions described in draft-hollenbeck-weird= s-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search and reference it. I tend t= o favor the former because it reduces the document count and puts a core se= t of client-sent commands in one place. We can still explore more advanced = search functionality in draft-zhou as we see fit.


I pr= ovided a reply as an individual on this, but I've been the only one.=A0= Can others weigh in?=A0 We need to decide on a path forward, but so far I&= #39;m the only respondent, which is hardly consensus.

Thanks,
-MSK
--089e0122975019ac1604e1a4470c-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Jul 16 10:31:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 997B321F84BB for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:31:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1j4bJPDwk5rt for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og124.obsmtp.com (exprod6og124.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.242]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEE9F21F991E for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob124.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUeWDVsmVmnSLmu+BMIWXdIL7rAdWubww@postini.com; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:31:05 PDT Received: from BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexchm01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.255]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6GHUxC1027736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:30:59 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:30:58 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , Pete Resnick Thread-Topic: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda Thread-Index: AQHOgkiZbx5bYqZ1CkSkeVnJrO5CjJlnjuqA Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:30:58 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEDCD@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEDCDBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:31:11 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEDCDBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Murray S. Kucherawy Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:19 PM To: Pete Resnick Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda [snip] On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal with this= . We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search and advance= d search document or something else, but I think that was before John's sur= vey that showed they're nearly non-existent today. The group needs to pick= a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search capability could be roll= ed into the rdap-query document fairly easily (I think...). Nearly non-existent, yes, but supported by the largest gTLDs registries - a= nd yes, I think that the very basic functionality described in the rdap-sea= rch draft could be rolled into rdap-query virtually as-is, made optional, a= nd the need would be met. Scott --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEDCDBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: weirds-b= ounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Murray S. Kucherawy
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:19 PM
To: Pete Resnick
Cc: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda

 

[snip]

On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're = going to deal with this.  We had discussed in Orlando whether we wante= d a basic search and advanced search document or something else, but I thin= k that was before John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today.  The group needs to pick a path fo= rward here, since an ultra-simple search capability could be rolled into th= e rdap-query document fairly easily (I think...).

 

Nearly non-existent, y= es, but supported by the largest gTLDs registries – and yes, I think = that the very basic functionality described in the rdap-search draft could = be rolled into rdap-query virtually as-is, made optional, and the need would be met.

 

Scott

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEDCDBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Tue Jul 16 10:32:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE50821F8BD8 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:32:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NM6w3zz8jyN2 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E619A21F864D for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 10:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5389047107; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B8692712-3845-4155-936B-E0C256D7D608" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:32:32 -0400 Message-Id: References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> <7ACFEBF0-A253-48D7-AB5E-73AE91DBC3AB@viagenie.ca> <51D48222.5030407@afilias.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE5AD4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE70F4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:32:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B8692712-3845-4155-936B-E0C256D7D608 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 my take:=20 - search is complex, so it warrants a separate document that might = progress at a different speed. - the remaining question to me is how much of a basic search capability = should we put in the base document that is a MUST or a SHOULD. If it = becomes a MAY, then there is no point in having it in the base document. - basic search is not really a client issue. it is a server issue. So I = would like to get opinions on the server guys about this. Marc. Le 2013-07-16 =E0 13:26, "Murray S. Kucherawy" a = =E9crit : > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott = wrote: > This brings up a larger point: we still haven't made a decision about = how to document search functionality. rdap-query punts it to a document = that didn't exist when we first wrote rdap-query. Now we have = draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and = draft-zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group = document. If we agree that basic search functionality needs to be = documented we need to decide what it is and where it gets described. I = don't think we can push rdap-query to IETF last call until we make a = decision. >=20 > My suggestion: either add the functions described in = draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search = and reference it. I tend to favor the former because it reduces the = document count and puts a core set of client-sent commands in one place. = We can still explore more advanced search functionality in draft-zhou as = we see fit. >=20 >=20 > I provided a reply as an individual on this, but I've been the only = one. Can others weigh in? We need to decide on a path forward, but so = far I'm the only respondent, which is hardly consensus. >=20 > Thanks, > -MSK > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail=_B8692712-3845-4155-936B-E0C256D7D608 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 my = take: 
- search is complex, so it warrants a separate document = that might progress at a different speed.
- the remaining = question to me is how much of a basic search capability should we put in = the base document that is a MUST or a SHOULD. If it becomes a MAY, then = there is no point in having it in the base document.
- basic = search is not really a client issue. it is a server issue. So I would = like to get opinions on the server guys about = this.

Marc.

Le 2013-07-16 = =E0 13:26, "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com> a =E9crit = :

On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:51 AM, = Hollenbeck, Scott <shollenbeck@verisign.com> wrote:
This brings up a = larger point: we still haven't made a decision about how to document = search functionality. rdap-query punts it to a document that didn't = exist when we first wrote rdap-query. Now we have = draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and = draft-zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group = document. If we agree that basic search functionality needs to be = documented we need to decide what it is and where it gets described. I = don't think we can push rdap-query to IETF last call until we make a = decision.

My suggestion: either add the functions described in = draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search = and reference it. I tend to favor the former because it reduces the = document count and puts a core set of client-sent commands in one place. = We can still explore more advanced search functionality in draft-zhou as = we see fit.


I provided a = reply as an individual on this, but I've been the only one.  Can = others weigh in?  We need to decide on a path forward, but so far = I'm the only respondent, which is hardly consensus.

Thanks,
-MSK
_______________________________________________
weirds mailing = list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds

= --Apple-Mail=_B8692712-3845-4155-936B-E0C256D7D608-- From gavin.brown@centralnic.com Tue Jul 16 11:04:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C7021E8063 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:04:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SMsajexbaA0m for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.centralnic.com (unknown [193.105.170.214]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D4EC11E80D5 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:04:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.146] (unknown [31.68.3.109]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.centralnic.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D8BE720435; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:04:06 +0000 (UTC) References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B146) From: Gavin Brown Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:57:48 +0100 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:04:15 -0000 On 16 Jul 2013, at 18:01, "Murray S. Kucherawy" wrote:= > Just to be clear, the working group is allowed to change its mind. If we c= ollectively decide A, but then someone points out something we hadn't consid= ered and consensus swings to B, that's perfectly acceptable. My mind has changed on this. Allowing a base path is less useful to me than a= scalable bootstrap. It's not like anyone's going to run an RDAP service on GeoCities. G. --=20 Gavin Brown Chief Technology Officer CentralNic Ltd Innovative Registry Services for ccTLD and gTLD registries https://www.centralnic.com/ CentralNic Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 4985780. Registered Offices: 35-39 Moorgate, London, EC2R 6AR.= From johnl@iecc.com Tue Jul 16 11:05:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E2C11E80D5 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:05:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.782 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.782 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.417, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ghe1rovtkdv for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:05:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE44921F9C4F for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 27623 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2013 18:05:21 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 16 Jul 2013 18:05:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51e58b61.xn--9vv.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=Nxp6qi0OBdgzDYhm0OpEzcXhzcrXfYKFl1BIsxgweSk=; b=dNFm+FWR3Oy/eyLsSHp7xRqAFCaQEMlUKrkHb4Ay2TRFjaVB7oHsz5/Lzg28SgqkQh4pvC1lU1tTX365qzIY8dwI7sTupj82BSNEhK4DIeKSfkPwsrZRKxgc5I9x0XsMxSLsacJCeBHVhMa/fxYxTcjS1GLUZprhtM7sVO21oJKYHBN0Vu+58Vp9TDBFsnc5pvK5CpEW+RndaKrBuDW7gOJ1gHJjyeVXWByMN0+JvPtIZPbkBrwJBUEyMaYY/OiE DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51e58b61.xn--9vv.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=Nxp6qi0OBdgzDYhm0OpEzcXhzcrXfYKFl1BIsxgweSk=; b=HfLi2E7fn2ffKQeoho9F5DVMAXSjeBv1tQ34U4K5O5z2H8/PdIBqSy3IAiUYfjfoLizhjhcEgnZTU5ezLU2FnQVKZzXYn0U0IwGtL2vRxf2/xzR2zizP2DqOIXUU8YA2xpPcgzLYEGco2YLqY5aKvxOKpWGjkoG1lVqeXJEQCbHIaSYCAhMsUF18h5o5cHa2jcsOxMIycCZCTZSJStnmBMfBOkGIGH1pH2lsHco149ZFK8O2rx6ivy9/8mji2sx2 Date: 16 Jul 2013 18:04:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20130716180458.56105.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEDCD@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] search, was Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:05:30 -0000 >Nearly non-existent, yes, but supported by the largest gTLDs registries - and yes, I think >that the very basic functionality described in the rdap-search draft could be rolled into >rdap-query virtually as-is, made optional, and the need would be met. Agreed. The existing ICANN documents that refer to WEIRDS are ambiguous, but a reasonable reading is that son-of-WHOIS will answer the same questions that the current system does. From superuser@gmail.com Tue Jul 16 11:07:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31B0111E80D5 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:07:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gPgW4V0rUjs8 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22d.google.com (mail-wi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37BEF11E80AD for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:07:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f173.google.com with SMTP id hq4so4472018wib.0 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:07:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ADyGqcTjNLjZv55kl6pa6Jy29eMdIIxoD0/24BPeNKI=; b=KG1mKCH4aerlSd9fe09WmVXOk11kej/5daVpxAZ36a/xa8GpW+bbvEXjiculA1HlBU 7hPfNUSDdYhozIACdJ4jZLjLPrcIylDdwvdd29PdY/gC60vGy9v3ZO+zMlC43PvXQGGL v/3LGPkBIShgZ1JPKyZ+cfLRxDonXyk4NZJ2kNwjRsojKIvS6PUp/BH0V2RyrMkPZBQA yQCbocqHxMFDLEBg44IGmaFFRJbT/jrtzDkAtFOvVSOZqIh8NuhimS9N2dfzQoCFgATF dQ28naNSpQXrKlL7BpUfPiocNSFEjRe+c/8muP0nRrxYAeoXqeUTUvQBiliLKXxC6Gff Xu4g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.239.225 with SMTP id vv1mr2118277wjc.63.1373998028321; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:07:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEDCD@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEDCD@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:07:08 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01493384667db604e1a4d87e Cc: Pete Resnick , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:07:10 -0000 --089e01493384667db604e1a4d87e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott < shollenbeck@verisign.com> wrote: > *From:* weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] *On > Behalf Of *Murray S. Kucherawy > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:19 PM > *To:* Pete Resnick > *Cc:* weirds@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda**** > > ** ** > > [snip]**** > > On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal with > this. We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search and > advanced search document or something else, but I think that was before > John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today. The group > needs to pick a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search capabilit= y > could be rolled into the rdap-query document fairly easily (I think...).*= * > ** > > ** ** > > Nearly non-existent, yes, but supported by the largest gTLDs registries = =96 > and yes, I think that the very basic functionality described in the > rdap-search draft could be rolled into rdap-query virtually as-is, made > optional, and the need would be met.**** > > ** ** > > Scott**** > Just to be clear, by "nearly non-existent", I was talking about how trivial it is to describe, not how important it may be. -MSK --089e01493384667db604e1a4d87e Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:30 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott <shollenbeck@verisign.com> wrote:

From: weirds-bounces@ietf.o= rg [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Murray S. Kucherawy
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:19 PM
To: Pete Resnick
Cc: weirds@ietf= .org
Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda=

=A0

[snip]

On the search issue, we do need to decide how we'= ;re going to deal with this.=A0 We had discussed in Orlando whether we want= ed a basic search and advanced search document or something else, but I thi= nk that was before John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today.=A0 The group needs to pick a path f= orward here, since an ultra-simple search capability could be rolled into t= he rdap-query document fairly easily (I think...).

=A0

Nearly non-existent, y= es, but supported by the largest gTLDs registries =96 and yes, I think that= the very basic functionality described in the rdap-search draft could be r= olled into rdap-query virtually as-is, made optional, and the need would be met.

=A0

Scott


Just to be clear, b= y "nearly non-existent", I was talking about how trivial it is to= describe, not how important it may be.

-MSK
--089e01493384667db604e1a4d87e-- From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 16 11:27:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7518A21F9B4B for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:27:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.326 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.326 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=3.273, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xLFWIK9p4zXv for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C205B11E80FE for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 76D15165059; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E984E16505F; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:26:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:26:53 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:26:53 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Gavin Brown , "Murray S. Kucherawy" Thread-Topic: [weirds] bootstrap requirements Thread-Index: AQHOeNsZvzJ9OfEu6kaHqEsVqCFvtplnYYCAgABITQD//8OnAIAAUqwA///XboCAAEYWAIAAD6oA///FDgA= Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:26:51 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap requirements X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:27:31 -0000 On 7/16/13 1:57 PM, "Gavin Brown" wrote: > >On 16 Jul 2013, at 18:01, "Murray S. Kucherawy" >wrote: > >> Just to be clear, the working group is allowed to change its mind. If >>we collectively decide A, but then someone points out something we >>hadn't considered and consensus swings to B, that's perfectly acceptable. > >My mind has changed on this. Allowing a base path is less useful to me >than a scalable bootstrap. I agree with this. However, the approach upon which this is being reconsidered isn't arguably more scalable for our needs and is arguably more complex and less flexible. -andy From edainow@afilias.info Tue Jul 16 13:37:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E5121F9FFB for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:37:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.637 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.637 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.331, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MISSING_HEADERS=1.292] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sz0IMVoIuIIT for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B99E421E8064 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBzp-0005La-3s for weirds@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:37:17 +0000 Received: from mail-ie0-f173.google.com ([209.85.223.173]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UzBzp-0000kO-3c for weirds@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:37:17 +0000 Received: by mail-ie0-f173.google.com with SMTP id k13so2550330iea.18 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:37:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:cc:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=9wBD7B37c9tsp+B9FKcLt/Iy+UkrJi7u1/GqCfQXLx8=; b=iFr19orxh8ULMIJobRy0C9kW+WROcQBqSB9eFdIOogkltENi9jwzJuSJzKD2kTgMRg /LXIhHIpCerXgyBeeL9HVaZ0HbzEKZ5ARS6VeBC2kbQIKNQYeqedVYe6vl92QmHTMze4 hIa2nckSae9gqjiILJVCceXpK9zivZ3dX4yWQmB0VN5K9EPzcJ6IFeAJgn9ryxGV94Eq F6yQRjdQYkavsS+DAze+hgZMz91Zx+/6QoGyeqPHuE8BblJOEhvPAE8d7dP0x2IoDbIp nKBFmY3LKCXSf3M43aGJXH+4Y0re9UA5x3AWTqOt7E6h8/zVCOpESpuOksDTnLUaxMUh QUQw== X-Received: by 10.42.139.197 with SMTP id h5mr2767006icu.73.1374007031622; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:37:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.42.139.197 with SMTP id h5mr2767002icu.73.1374007031548; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.10.68.31] (tor-gateway.afilias.info. [199.15.87.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id n5sm3537322igv.5.2013.07.16.13.37.09 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51E5AEF3.1060007@afilias.info> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:37:07 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: weirds@ietf.org References: <20130716180458.56105.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20130716180458.56105.qmail@joyce.lan> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090107030806080207040203" X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQliDubt+s59b0olnXOopwwdmqUfNJWAb0KN7Co1UM6Vperhe0yh7VfalzzKBtIQbIDPBrDP8auej8e4S6GaZTZQRDGnpjxQrBKGClGN38IYte7X5RFiBrkZDyiMHme1PBYKp+jv Subject: Re: [weirds] search, was Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:37:24 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090107030806080207040203 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 7/16/2013 2:04 PM, John Levine wrote: >> Nearly non-existent, yes, but supported by the largest gTLDs registries - and yes, I think >> that the very basic functionality described in the rdap-search draft could be rolled into >> rdap-query virtually as-is, made optional, and the need would be met. > Agreed. > > The existing ICANN documents that refer to WEIRDS are ambiguous, but a > reasonable reading is that son-of-WHOIS will answer the same questions > that the current system does. > > I agree with Scott's proposal to include the basic search from . To be consistent with the current structure of the documents, it seems this should be split and merged into both draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query and draft-ietf-weirds-json-response. -Ernie --------------090107030806080207040203 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 7/16/2013 2:04 PM, John Levine wrote:
Nearly non-existent, yes, but supported by the largest gTLDs registries - and yes, I think
that the very basic functionality described in the rdap-search draft could be rolled into
rdap-query virtually as-is, made optional, and the need would be met.

Agreed.

The existing ICANN documents that refer to WEIRDS are ambiguous, but a
reasonable reading is that son-of-WHOIS will answer the same questions
that the current system does.
I agree with Scott's proposal to include the basic search from <draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search>. To be consistent with the current structure of the documents, it seems this should be split and merged into both draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query and draft-ietf-weirds-json-response.

-Ernie
 --------------090107030806080207040203-- From carlosm3011@gmail.com Tue Jul 16 16:09:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A85EB21F9C2D for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:09:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w2XAY1PCiz+T for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ye0-x229.google.com (mail-ye0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c04::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C93221F9D1E for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ye0-f169.google.com with SMTP id m1so364240yen.28 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:09:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kyd9WeKK8AWPlHPQHIdbuFTStOjeuAZjknJci2j/jeM=; b=Qft2n5iBDwanhIq4jGsQ85/uZ6mkg4aNTpKRRbcUTiSqimWlHtYfKyOlKCrseFP1hS mFAhN5OPuoinqAtAC69fysVhkUq6tBAjmevQL95uBm05tA3fSYaGlsoTKk3tJjp5T+DU GMu80KwinkKI/YatPNXKJ+l6Z+JrcL6z8aZZl+KcQwoZeG2cA0rgVJiA6CisTKkJ4xX4 g4gwXTnP3+/dOXlRtNZqprYnmQdyOqxnYAyXfeg79VWorTDwdNymE/+W6f0X4hkORmtf YMp1RGUoSxzA86aSKAeTpvy1y8N3uLRm0HvmcDfWHRc3p6engp2F5+RZmjJRABvPPvnr Fykg== X-Received: by 10.236.41.42 with SMTP id g30mr1149453yhb.150.1374016174844; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:09:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonaire.local ([206.48.23.211]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s29sm4315254yhf.6.2013.07.16.16.09.33 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51E5D2AB.2020207@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 19:09:31 -0400 From: "Carlos M. martinez" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" References: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Pete Resnick , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 23:09:38 -0000 My 10' would run more or less be as follows: - wrap-up of the discussion so far (even if it's not very recent) - server bootstrapping, how it has been done in the known implementations - the server pooling idea, pros, cons - open questions: - should we redirect from names to numbers and viceversa or removing this requirement simplifies our work in some way ? - redirects and authentication: expectations for clients, if need to be set or just ignored - open mic ... and that would be it. regards, ~Carlos On 7/16/13 1:18 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Pete Resnick > wrote: > > On 7/15/13 7:06 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > ...is now available; feedback welcome: > > http://www.ietf.org/__proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-__87-weirds > > > > I have some feedback: > > Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) > Agenda -- August 1, 2013 at 10:30-11:30 in Potsdam 2 > > - Administrivia (10 mins; chairs) > - blue sheets > - minute-taker and jabber scribe > > > Yes, all fine, though I would suggest finding the minute-taker and > jabber scribe before the meeting. Asking for volunteers now would be > good. Those two items should take 2 minutes tops. > > > Any volunteers? > > > > - Demo/interop report (5 mins; TBD) > > > I take it this is intended to be a report of the interop/demo event > on the previous Saturday. The WG session is on Thursday. Again, this > report should be sent out to the list. If something comes out of the > report that needs discussion (a bug in one of the specs), that > should be added to the agenda separately. I see no need for a report > being on the agenda. > > > The last interop event led to some discussion, and I was anticipating > the same here. I was anticipating the need for face time to discuss the > fallout rather than just present a report. My fault for the lousy naming. > > > - Redirects (10 mins; Carlos Martinez) > > > What is there to discuss on this draft? The list discussion seems to > be quiet. > > - Search (10 mins; Ning Kong) > > > What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion (or lack of > discussion) on the list does this relate to? > > > Carlos and Ning, can you give a list of issues you'd like to cover? > > On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal with > this. We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search and > advanced search document or something else, but I think that was before > John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today. The group > needs to pick a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search > capability could be rolled into the rdap-query document fairly easily (I > think...). > > -MSK > > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > From nkong@cnnic.cn Tue Jul 16 20:10:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC52B21F9C06 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:10:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bZ0Qc4wjlE8R for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B93721F9CA6 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:09:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO [218.241.103.63]) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:09:32 +0800 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4B448E9B-869C-45DC-8ADA-047ED53B5E87" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ning Kong In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:09:32 +0800 Message-Id: <96CD0A60-65FF-4F71-A5B0-E241779233D8@cnnic.cn> References: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: Pete Resnick , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 03:10:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_4B448E9B-869C-45DC-8ADA-047ED53B5E87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Murray, Please see my feedbacks inline. >=20 > - Search (10 mins; Ning Kong) >=20 > What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion (or lack of = discussion) on the list does this relate to? >=20 >=20 > Carlos and Ning, can you give a list of issues you'd like to cover?=20 >=20 > On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal with = this. We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search and = advanced search document or something else, but I think that was before = John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today. The group = needs to pick a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search = capability could be rolled into the rdap-query document fairly easily (I = think=E2=80=A6). +1 The followings are the issues I'd like to cover on the search slot. #1 Why should we consider the search function? 1) Optional search function described by the ICANN AGB=20 2) ICANN WSWG (Whois Survey Working Group) Survey Results = (Requirement 5 for search) Note1: the final report of this survey is not published, = but the results can be accessed in the link of = https://community.icann.org/display/WSDT/WSWG+Survey+Results Note2: According to the results, over 81% respondents = support the search function of domain name, over 53% respondents = indicated positive interest in other search functions (over 31% for = NameServers, over 32% for Contact Name, over 34% for Contact Email). #2 What should be the search function? 1) What query types should be searchable Domain? Handle? Name? Status? Nameserver? Handle? Name? IP? Entity? ID? Name? Email? Adr? IP? Handle? StartAddress? Name? AS? Handle? StartAutnum? Name? 2) What kind of search functions should be considered? Wildcard? (single character match, multiple characters = match, specific number of characters match) Boolean? (and, or, not) Page? Order by? (Date, Name) 2) What path segments should be used for search? Option1: domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com by = hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02 Option2: search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com by = zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00 Option3: domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&page=3D3&orderby=3D= name 3) What response format should be used for search? Search level ? Results ? Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Number) Oder by ? 4) Others? I18N consideration Security consideration=20 Anything else? #3 How should we document the search function? Option1: one separated search document which covers all the = issues of search Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP = documents (Query, Response, others?) Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related = RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?), drafting one separated search = document to cover the advanced search function #4 Other Open Questions 1) How to clearly define the basic search function and the = advanced one?=20 2) Need we consider the search function across different RDAP = servers? (Search + Redirect ?) Any comments are appreciated! Cheers, Ning --Apple-Mail=_4B448E9B-869C-45DC-8ADA-047ED53B5E87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

- Search (10 mins; Ning Kong)

What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion (or lack of = discussion) on the list does this relate to?


Carlos and Ning, can = you give a list of issues you'd like to cover?

On the = search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal with = this.  We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search = and advanced search document or something else, but I think that was = before John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent = today.  The group needs to pick a path forward here, since an = ultra-simple search capability could be rolled into the rdap-query = document fairly easily (I = think=E2=80=A6).
+1

The followings are the issues I'd like to cover on the = search slot.

#1  Why should we consider = the search function?
1)  Optional search function = described by the ICANN AGB 
2) =  ICANN WSWG (Whois Survey Working Group) Survey Results = (Requirement 5 for search)
     Note1: the = final report of this survey is not published, but the results can be = accessed in the link of http= s://community.icann.org/display/WSDT/WSWG+Survey+Results
  =    Note2: According to the results, over 81% respondents = support the search function of domain name, over 53% respondents = indicated positive interest in other search functions (over 31% for = NameServers, over 32% for Contact Name, over 34% for Contact = Email).

#2  What should be the = search function?
1)  What query types should = be searchable
Domain?
= Handle?
= Name?
= Status?
= Nameserver?
= Handle?
= Name?
= IP?
Entity?
= ID?
= Name?
= Email?
= Adr?
IP?
= Handle?
= StartAddress?
= Name?
AS?
= Handle?
= StartAutnum?
= Name?

2)  What kind of search = functions should be considered?
Wildcard? (single = character match, multiple characters match, specific number of = characters match)
Boolean? (and, or, = not)
= Page?
Order by? (Date, = Name)

2)  What path segments = should be used for search?
Option1:  =  domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com      by = hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02
        = Option2:   search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com      by = zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00
= Option3: =   domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&page=3D3&orderby=3Dname

3)  What response format = should be used for search?
Search level = ?
= Results ?
Page ? (Total Page = Number, Current Page Number)
Oder by = ?

4)  Others?
= I18N consideration
Security = consideration 
Anything = else?

#3  How should we document the = search function?
Option1:  one separated = search document which covers all the issues of search
Option2: =  Merging all the search function into all related RDAP documents = (Query, Response, others?)
Option3:  Merging the basic = search function into all related RDAP documents (Query, Response, = others?), drafting one separated search document to cover the advanced = search function

#4  Other Open = Questions
1)  How to clearly = define the basic search function and the advanced = one? 
2)  Need we consider the = search function across different RDAP servers? (Search + Redirect = ?)


Any comments are = appreciated!

Cheers,
Ning


= --Apple-Mail=_4B448E9B-869C-45DC-8ADA-047ED53B5E87-- From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Tue Jul 16 20:43:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E94321F9A8F for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:43:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.486 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.486 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.888, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CPyls-A1SNoC for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A3E0D21F9A8E for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:43:02 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:42:40 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'Marc Blanchet'" , "'Murray S. Kucherawy'" References: <462E855B-71B9-45DA-8124-656BD6149234@NLnetLabs.nl> <1F0B2402-B8A8-4C24-9B81-DCF20A6D91D4@NLnetLabs.nl> <7ACFEBF0-A253-48D7-AB5E-73AE91DBC3AB@viagenie.ca> <51D48222.5030407@afilias.info> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE5AD4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AE70F4@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:42:40 +0800 Message-ID: <00de01ce829f$b02d68e0$10883aa0$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DF_01CE82E2.BE50A8E0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac6CSnc81Jzw6NATQ2eAltOf+5EfRgAQqYwQ Content-Language: zh-cn Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 03:43:11 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DF_01CE82E2.BE50A8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If query combines with search document, will the response draft also = need to add a section about search response?=20 Will it also have an impact on http, not sure. =20 From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Marc Blanchet Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:33 AM To: Murray S. Kucherawy Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 =20 my take:=20 - search is complex, so it warrants a separate document that might = progress at a different speed. - the remaining question to me is how much of a basic search capability should we put in the base document that is a MUST or a SHOULD. If it = becomes a MAY, then there is no point in having it in the base document. - basic search is not really a client issue. it is a server issue. So I would like to get opinions on the server guys about this. =20 Marc. =20 Le 2013-07-16 =E0 13:26, "Murray S. Kucherawy" a = =E9crit : On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:51 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott = wrote: This brings up a larger point: we still haven't made a decision about = how to document search functionality. rdap-query punts it to a document that = didn't exist when we first wrote rdap-query. Now we have draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and draft-zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group document. If we agree that basic search functionality needs to be = documented we need to decide what it is and where it gets described. I don't think = we can push rdap-query to IETF last call until we make a decision. My suggestion: either add the functions described in draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search = and reference it. I tend to favor the former because it reduces the document count and puts a core set of client-sent commands in one place. We can = still explore more advanced search functionality in draft-zhou as we see fit. =20 =20 I provided a reply as an individual on this, but I've been the only one. Can others weigh in? We need to decide on a path forward, but so far = I'm the only respondent, which is hardly consensus. Thanks, -MSK _______________________________________________ weirds mailing list weirds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00DF_01CE82E2.BE50A8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If query = combines with search document, will the response draft also need to add = a section about search response?

Will it = also have an impact on http, not sure.

 =

From:= = weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Marc Blanchet
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:33 = AM
To: Murray S. Kucherawy
Cc: = weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: = draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05

 

my = take: 

- search is complex, so it warrants a separate document = that might progress at a different = speed.

- the remaining question to me is how much of a basic = search capability should we put in the base document that is a MUST or a = SHOULD. If it becomes a MAY, then there is no point in having it in the = base document.

- basic search is not really a = client issue. it is a server issue. So I would like to get opinions on = the server guys about this.

 

Marc.

 

Le 2013-07-16 =E0 13:26, = "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com> a = =E9crit :



On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 4:51 AM, = Hollenbeck, Scott <shollenbeck@verisign.com> = wrote:

This brings up a larger point: we still haven't made a = decision about how to document search functionality. rdap-query punts it = to a document that didn't exist when we first wrote rdap-query. Now we = have draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search and = draft-zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search, but neither is a working group = document. If we agree that basic search functionality needs to be = documented we need to decide what it is and where it gets described. I = don't think we can push rdap-query to IETF last call until we make a = decision.

My suggestion: either add the functions described in = draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search to rdap-query or adopt rdap-search = and reference it. I tend to favor the former because it reduces the = document count and puts a core set of client-sent commands in one place. = We can still explore more advanced search functionality in draft-zhou as = we see fit.

 

 

I provided a reply as = an individual on this, but I've been the only one.  Can others = weigh in?  We need to decide on a path forward, but so far I'm the = only respondent, which is hardly = consensus.

Thanks,

-MSK

_______________________________________________
weirds = mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds

 

<= /html> ------=_NextPart_000_00DF_01CE82E2.BE50A8E0-- From bje@apnic.net Tue Jul 16 21:01:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E75D21F9B94 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.557 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.557 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, RELAY_IS_203=0.994] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FVaGa2RbLWom for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ia-mailgw.apnic.net (ia-mailgw.apnic.net [IPv6:2001:dd8:a:3::243]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 92C1321F9AE7 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from IAMDA1.org.apnic.net (unknown [203.119.93.247]) by ia-mailgw.apnic.net (Halon Mail Gateway) with ESMTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:01:46 +1000 (EST) Received: from IAMDA2.org.apnic.net (2001:dd8:a:852::21) by IAMDA1.org.apnic.net (2001:dd8:a:852:f9ce:d66e:c64d:3db2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:01:46 +1000 Received: from NXMDA1.org.apnic.net ([fe80::c877:49c3:86f7:9d67]) by IAMDA2.org.apnic.net ([fe80::c75:3639:c2fb:c053%15]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 14:01:45 +1000 From: Byron Ellacott To: Pete Resnick , Peter Saint-Andre Thread-Topic: [weirds] JSON vCard reference Thread-Index: AQHOcTP1fnL7R3Q5C0qwDo73GXDqUJlmB2cAgAJa5AA= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 04:01:45 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <51E4AA0A.4050905@qti.qualcomm.com> Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [203.119.42.210] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" , "jcardcal@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] JSON vCard reference X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 04:01:54 -0000 I have read this document; it is definitely useful for the WEIRDS work, and I have no objections to it. I am also part of a team that has implemented jCard output for RDAP entities: version -05 of this draft was implementable as-is, with no clarifications required. (There's no guarantee we got it right, of course: we'll find that out in the interop testing!) Byron On 16/07/13 12:03 PM, "Pete Resnick" wrote: >On 6/24/13 6:38 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >> Please note that >> draft-kewisch-vcard-in-json has been superseded by >> draft-ietf-jcardcal-jcard. (Also, the latter specification has been >> submitted to the IESG for publication, so if you have feedback please >> send it as soon as possible.) >> =20 > >WEIRDS people: > >I would *really* appreciate if some of you took a look at the jCard >document and reviewed it enough to give a quick "I did a final review; >this seems like it will be useful for the WEIRDS work; no objections" >message (to the IETF). (Obviously if you have concerns, we want to hear >about these ASAP!) I haven't seen any public comments from WEIRDS folks >indicating that this is sufficient. > >Here's an easy link so you can go review: > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-jcardcal-jcard/ > >Thanks, > >pr > >--=20 >Pete Resnick >Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478 > >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From jahlen@ripe.net Wed Jul 17 01:06:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9627921F9DA0 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 01:06:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IuLiFzn17XKF for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 01:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ipv6.ripe.net [IPv6:2001:67c:2e8:11::c100:1342]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DAB221F9DAF for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 01:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayeaye.ripe.net ([193.0.23.5]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UzMkj-0002pB-9n; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:06:27 +0200 Received: from tel-sslvpn-1.ripe.net ([193.0.20.232] helo=vpn-167.ripe.net) by ayeaye.ripe.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UzMkj-0002GO-7o; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:06:25 +0200 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5D895D67-18DC-47FF-BA1F-B84BF4D19AC0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Johan_=C5hl=E9n?= In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:06:28 +0200 Message-Id: <06E08EB2-65E1-487C-BDE4-2177B3566705@ripe.net> References: To: John R Levine X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Anti-Virus: Kaspersky Anti-Virus for Linux Mail Server 5.6.48/RELEASE, bases: 20120425 #7816575, check: 20130717 clean X-RIPE-Spam-Level: -- X-RIPE-Spam-Report: Spam Total Points: -2.9 points pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- ------------------------------------ -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-RIPE-Signature: 3aad339cf30f188c70bedeb8880e7b0a0b11881efb8db1308dbba8c5804e54f3 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:06:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5D895D67-18DC-47FF-BA1F-B84BF4D19AC0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On 16 Jul 2013, at 16:27, John R Levine wrote: > On the numbers side, it seems unlikely that there will be any = bootstrap more complex than point your client at your local RIR or maybe = use a lookup table you downloaded one time, and hope for the best, so I = agree it's not a big deal there. I agree with this, coming from an RIR background I know for sure that we = know which resources are managed by which RIR. If a client would query = RIPE for an ARIN resource the RIPE service could redirect to ARIN = straight away and vice versa. Here are some benefits I can think of: - No need for bootstrap or lookup tables on the client side - No need for an additional Redirection Service - It doesn't matter which RIR you point the client to - Client can't get more simple, you can even use wget for number queries Regards, Johan =C5hl=E9n= --Apple-Mail=_5D895D67-18DC-47FF-BA1F-B84BF4D19AC0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 johnl@taugh.com> = wrote:

On the numbers side, it seems = unlikely that there will be any bootstrap more complex than point your = client at your local RIR or maybe use a lookup table you downloaded one = time, and hope for the best, so I agree it's not a big deal = there.

I agree with this, coming from = an RIR background I know for sure that we know which resources are = managed by which RIR. If a client would query RIPE for an ARIN resource = the RIPE service could redirect to ARIN straight away and vice versa. = Here are some benefits I can think = of:

- No need for bootstrap or lookup = tables on the client side
- No need for an additional = Redirection Service
- It doesn't matter which RIR you point = the client to
- Client can't get more simple, you can even use = wget for number = queries

Regards,

Johan = =C5hl=E9n
= --Apple-Mail=_5D895D67-18DC-47FF-BA1F-B84BF4D19AC0-- From andy@arin.net Wed Jul 17 06:42:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F23C721F9FCA for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 06:42:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eZwKfKCiPT8j for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 06:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1B321F9F85 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 06:42:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 6A6BC165277; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E88CD165274; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:42:10 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:42:09 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Ernie Dainow Thread-Topic: [weirds] search, was Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda Thread-Index: AQHOgk8RPS1AWNGo+0KOAhLYfPetn5loBumAgADbQYA= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 13:41:48 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <51E5AEF3.1060007@afilias.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <17113B2ABBDD764BA7DC4B540DABD874@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] search, was Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 13:42:23 -0000 From: Ernie Dainow Date: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:37 PM Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] search, was Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda >I > agree with Scott's proposal to include the basic search from >. To be consistent with the current >structure of the documents, it seems this should be split and merged into >both draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query and draft-ietf-weirds-json-response. > >-Ernie > That's correct, this change impacts both the rdap-query draft and the json-response draft. My only hesitation with this approach is with the internationalization aspects of search processing. I hope everybody is comfortable with Section 4 of that draft, especially paragraphs 3 and 4. -andy From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Jul 17 06:45:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D2E421F9E5C for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 06:45:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LrCbIzEDWr1y for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 06:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og115.obsmtp.com (exprod6og115.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6226021F9E6E for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 06:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob115.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUeaf6vRBkkEPtXgAs4rppWBd3Rh9nhAj@postini.com; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 06:45:17 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6HDjBLX002559 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:45:11 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:45:10 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andy Newton , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 Thread-Index: AQHOcaDipF1J5KwVBUOVGoSoTbZSl5lTXV4AgAAI2wCAAEijAIAHH+tQgAF/qjCAC2cGAP//w9MwgABHAQD//7++8IABg3eA Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 13:45:10 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEFC04@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEE9A6@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEA4D@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F36AEEA4D@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 13:45:23 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Hollenbeck, Scott > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:46 AM > To: Andy Newton; weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Andy Newton [mailto:andy@arin.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:25 AM > > To: Hollenbeck, Scott; weirds@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 > > > > On 7/16/13 10:12 AM, "Hollenbeck, Scott" > > wrote: > > > > >>Then rdap-query stills needs to be updated to close the loop on > > entity > > >>lookups by name (which aren't supported) and to make it clear that > > the > > >>search stuff is being deferred to an unnamed (and possibly non- > > existent) > > >>additional spec. > > > > Is this an ICANN requirement? I'm trying to remember where it comes > > from. > > > > Regardless, I doubt this meets the 80/20 rule as well. How many > queries > > are entity lookup by name vs ip lookup by address or domain lookup by > > domain name? >=20 > Both John Levine and Ernie Dainow have asked about registrar lookups by > name, which we don't describe in rdap-query. In both cases I've pointed > them to rdap-search, which isn't a WG draft. >=20 > This type of lookup is a currently supported feature for .com and .net. > I didn't check other TLDs so I don't know if others do it, too. I also > don't know how many such queries Verisign receives, but I have someone > looking into it. Hard data: during one 24-hour period in December 2012, Verisign processed 1= 80 million WHOIS queries across 4 resolution sites. 120,412 of those 180 mi= llion queries were for registrar names. From johnl@iecc.com Wed Jul 17 09:26:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F06B21F99C2 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:26:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.79 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.79 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.409, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pb-GKEWG-vRJ for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E6721F99F1 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 09:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 23202 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2013 16:26:05 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 17 Jul 2013 16:26:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51e6c59d.xn--3zv.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=rg/mwtmTrrFjK2/bGgT7u8JUNvjQR333sHqY0HAX3JI=; b=44wm9l/Jvq1IoHL/jm78ohBvNxBvYf9v6taIbTymDVvCBEjGJahEDRoKZAqGxskDw7OWGm4HZlR+5fU/2nverxRndJsQVETku8DHAw3UBRCaRAvfgL/MSxwKlVTuSWXRKE8+LWD9rmgCrzjtnU9L3tvhjPN/u9XoHtxYfgMtUgXUVZJM6DOKzOaLwFoNvL2x1dWQFmS8XVS2aUxoePWFnufCgP3L/u/IRe9mr/JcFz3AiZo/v9QaXp5O7N3dfYFR DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51e6c59d.xn--3zv.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=rg/mwtmTrrFjK2/bGgT7u8JUNvjQR333sHqY0HAX3JI=; b=Ph/VHKpqKQQbP+4EVNADKMWcRGKaQnmAfO3kc6zm5pusfHw6E+80IhEIoe3tX9HH0/qTFAUYz61CBN16oL+mqkIvJ+moNz6iyo32cKYydQwRfMZDLPRu3XsNIJUTCq11f0rdoN3lCf0neeJ366r1pYH6Q3y4RYUT14BiVdmyG+heiBAOkwFCFoPhSq9T92eqWfIDnnQwf9yqzhsqgx9Zm7GDxTBZ1f/IKzssfOp8313rNyZ6YbTlpUeLYhStDAXW Date: 17 Jul 2013 16:25:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20130717162543.65453.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <00de01ce829f$b02d68e0$10883aa0$@cn> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:26:11 -0000 >If query combines with search document, will the response draft also need to >add a section about search response? I would think so. It'd need to describe how to return multiple results, probably as a JSON array, and some codes to describe what happened, e.g., all matches returned, some matches returned, nothing matched. R's, John From superuser@gmail.com Wed Jul 17 10:24:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3900D21F9A2D for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:24:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XIrPi00GhXXC for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22e.google.com (mail-wg0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B10021F9B12 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id c11so2006009wgh.1 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:24:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=8SJZyUkWRw0meBBpWrcS5VLE3wj9AXR2AqwPcyQLm5E=; b=vXDiASS2wcI93nu/N2RH4arP1VkGlMUS9ofOoJrK9ddJHBUO1SgMDX4OVs30qjjLd6 Guo8u9/cgWyj9cs9GeIdCcPpO+BGrLnHcOHAOZ8VIk5GapmUIGpDjEfYfv+pTWsl4uZ8 Von9U/c608hpIld55VNk8BGSCsQ1TCVWsQ6zHJpV2qhJVZ+qWU1XdFPUgz+rS0CfuogI GbNLsoBCOtpta1nhcCpeLnlpRX+nWnQLg70denG4RWibnO0s9xYrjKpja+ZNnbgPxZMt 6Qq3JNJzmHpUpTk+f510ww9H83pnKYh12yNL0ebiCs1H2Q4eMRqd8E3Kr3pNVRVq750F R5TQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.89.231 with SMTP id br7mr16794451wib.19.1374081851279; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:24:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <96CD0A60-65FF-4F71-A5B0-E241779233D8@cnnic.cn> References: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> <96CD0A60-65FF-4F71-A5B0-E241779233D8@cnnic.cn> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:24:11 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Ning Kong Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f3ba255a3513404e1b85c52 Cc: Pete Resnick , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:24:13 -0000 --e89a8f3ba255a3513404e1b85c52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Ning Kong wrote: > Please see my feedbacks inline. > Why wait for the meeting? Can we start threads on the list on these topics now? Then we can use the meeting time to discuss things that appear to be sticky or need the in-person meeting time. As laid out, your topic list will take a lot more time than I think we have in Berlin, and I'd rather not request a second meeting if we can avoid it. -MSK --e89a8f3ba255a3513404e1b85c52 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --e89a8f3ba255a3513404e1b85c52-- From superuser@gmail.com Wed Jul 17 10:38:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD1D21F9E5C for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:38:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PPk0BI17p1Xi for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22b.google.com (mail-wg0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD95921F9D9A for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id z11so2017230wgg.34 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:38:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ymq1nVImiNfZq8pVc25b24e8XcUwLqcfuTj56SKoM9E=; b=i+BA+xCH0R/8CsXllEgJpc6hbcptgTqugGlav2Mc+Ddx40d0rET2Zovoxnt4qQUiHU 9+hVWfwAAW2VgaMYkRL0pfYhAtT0I+fRiIuoePlciFgaOcAym22Pc2AL/9BNmYB9LpH2 NCTUabDvQ16UfWpOrzbSMu/QEwXiz3PmXbRyjl2S3Iyxv0V0oaMw3cp93BQObhQFqCTS wfM53saaKXRIkpaTPh3ME7dXoh989QWM1yIfMswNKtlWPHmeV8caPQhVtbtcH0cdwH23 7XreRNJwESBOBUB2NZVL/4uQsjbkiqadcanYAR2ExyFePhP7gmdyMewQIsOMblT8F7gO NRDw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.102.37 with SMTP id fl5mr16579229wib.52.1374082717345; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:38:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <51E5D2AB.2020207@gmail.com> References: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> <51E5D2AB.2020207@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:38:37 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "Carlos M. martinez" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044517f7426da604e1b890c4 Cc: Pete Resnick , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:38:43 -0000 --f46d044517f7426da604e1b890c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Same question here: Can we start this discussion now on the list so we can make optimal use of our in-person time in Berlin? We only have an hour. -MSK On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Carlos M. martinez wrote: > My 10' would run more or less be as follows: > > - wrap-up of the discussion so far (even if it's not very recent) > - server bootstrapping, how it has been done in the known implementations > - the server pooling idea, pros, cons > - open questions: > - should we redirect from names to numbers and viceversa or > removing > this requirement simplifies our work in some way ? > - redirects and authentication: expectations for clients, if need > to be > set or just ignored > - open mic > > ... and that would be it. > > regards, > > ~Carlos > > On 7/16/13 1:18 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Pete Resnick > > wrote: > > > > On 7/15/13 7:06 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > > > ...is now available; feedback welcome: > > > > http://www.ietf.org/__proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-__87-weirds > > > > > > > > I have some feedback: > > > > Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) > > Agenda -- August 1, 2013 at 10:30-11:30 in Potsdam 2 > > > > - Administrivia (10 mins; chairs) > > - blue sheets > > - minute-taker and jabber scribe > > > > > > Yes, all fine, though I would suggest finding the minute-taker and > > jabber scribe before the meeting. Asking for volunteers now would be > > good. Those two items should take 2 minutes tops. > > > > > > Any volunteers? > > > > > > > > - Demo/interop report (5 mins; TBD) > > > > > > I take it this is intended to be a report of the interop/demo event > > on the previous Saturday. The WG session is on Thursday. Again, this > > report should be sent out to the list. If something comes out of the > > report that needs discussion (a bug in one of the specs), that > > should be added to the agenda separately. I see no need for a report > > being on the agenda. > > > > > > The last interop event led to some discussion, and I was anticipating > > the same here. I was anticipating the need for face time to discuss the > > fallout rather than just present a report. My fault for the lousy > naming. > > > > > > - Redirects (10 mins; Carlos Martinez) > > > > > > What is there to discuss on this draft? The list discussion seems to > > be quiet. > > > > - Search (10 mins; Ning Kong) > > > > > > What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion (or lack of > > discussion) on the list does this relate to? > > > > > > Carlos and Ning, can you give a list of issues you'd like to cover? > > > > On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal with > > this. We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search and > > advanced search document or something else, but I think that was before > > John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today. The group > > needs to pick a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search > > capability could be rolled into the rdap-query document fairly easily (I > > think...). > > > > -MSK > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > weirds mailing list > > weirds@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > > --f46d044517f7426da604e1b890c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Same question here: Can we start this discussion now on th= e list so we can make optimal use of our in-person time in Berlin?=A0 We on= ly have an hour.

-MSK


On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Carlos M. martinez <<= a href=3D"mailto:carlosm3011@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">carlosm3011@gmail= .com> wrote:
My 10' would run more or less be as follows:

- wrap-up of the discussion so far (even if it's not very recent)
- server bootstrapping, how it has been done in the known implementations - the server pooling idea, pros, cons
- open questions:
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - should we redirect from names to numbers and viceversa or= removing
this requirement simplifies our work in some way ?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - redirects and authentication: expectations for clients, i= f need to be
set or just ignored
- open mic

... and that would be it.

regards,

~Carlos

On 7/16/13 1:18 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com
> <mailto:presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>> wrote:
>
> =A0 =A0 On 7/15/13 7:06 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ...is now available; feedback welcome:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ietf.org/__proceedi= ngs/87/agenda/agenda-__87-weirds
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-87-weirds>
>
>
> =A0 =A0 I have some feedback:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEI= RDS)
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Agenda -- August 1, 2013 at 10:30-11:30 in Potsdam 2 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - Administrivia (10 mins; chairs)
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - blue sheets
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - minute-taker and jabber scribe
>
>
> =A0 =A0 Yes, all fine, though I would suggest finding the minute-taker= and
> =A0 =A0 jabber scribe before the meeting. Asking for volunteers now wo= uld be
> =A0 =A0 good. Those two items should take 2 minutes tops.
>
>
> Any volunteers?
>
>
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - Demo/interop report (5 mins; TBD)
>
>
> =A0 =A0 I take it this is intended to be a report of the interop/demo = event
> =A0 =A0 on the previous Saturday. The WG session is on Thursday. Again= , this
> =A0 =A0 report should be sent out to the list. If something comes out = of the
> =A0 =A0 report that needs discussion (a bug in one of the specs), that=
> =A0 =A0 should be added to the agenda separately. I see no need for a = report
> =A0 =A0 being on the agenda.
>
>
> The last interop event led to some discussion, and I was anticipating<= br> > the same here. =A0I was anticipating the need for face time to discuss= the
> fallout rather than just present a report. =A0My fault for the lousy n= aming.
>
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - Redirects (10 mins; Carlos Martinez)
>
>
> =A0 =A0 What is there to discuss on this draft? The list discussion se= ems to
> =A0 =A0 be quiet.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - Search (10 mins; Ning Kong)
>
>
> =A0 =A0 What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion (or l= ack of
> =A0 =A0 discussion) on the list does this relate to?
>
>
> Carlos and Ning, can you give a list of issues you'd like to cover= ?
>
> On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal = with
> this. =A0We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search = and
> advanced search document or something else, but I think that was befor= e
> John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today. = =A0The group
> needs to pick a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search
> capability could be rolled into the rdap-query document fairly easily = (I
> think...).
>
> -MSK
>
>
> __________________= _____________________________
> weirds mailing list
> weirds@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds
>

--f46d044517f7426da604e1b890c4-- From nkong@cnnic.cn Wed Jul 17 17:52:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58A2D21F8BB7 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:52:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DQHBYhxe7DIa for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E5B3821F8DE3 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO [218.241.103.7]) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 08:51:30 +0800 From: Ning Kong Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 08:51:32 +0800 To: "weirds@ietf.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:52:05 -0000 Hi folks, I try to list all related open questions on the search functions through = this new thread. Any comments are appreciated! #1 Why should we consider the search function? 1) Optional search function described by the ICANN AGB=20 2) ICANN WSWG (Whois Survey Working Group) Survey Results = (Requirement 5 for search) Note1: the final report of this survey is not published, = but the results can be accessed in the link of = https://community.icann.org/display/WSDT/WSWG+Survey+Results Note2: According to the results, over 81% respondents = support the search function of domain name, over 53% respondents = indicated positive interest in the search function of others (over 31% = for NameServers, over 32% for Contact Name, over 34% for Contact Email). #2 What should be the search function? 1) What query types should be searchable Domain? Handle? Name? Status? Others? Nameserver? Handle? Name? IP? Others? Entity? ID? Name? Email? Adr? Others? IP? Handle? StartAddress? Name? Others? AS? Handle? StartAutnum? Name? Others? 2) What kind of search functions should be considered? Wildcard? (single character match, multiple characters = match, specific number of characters match) Boolean? (and, or, not) Page? Order by? (Date, Name) 2) What path segments should be used for search? Option1: domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com by = hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02 Option2: search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com by = zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00 Option3: domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&page=3D3&orderby=3D= name 3) What response format should be used for search? Search level ? Multiple Results ? Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Number) Oder by ? 4) Others? I18N consideration Security consideration (Privacy Protection) Anything else? #3 How should we document the search function? Option1: one separated search document which covers all the = issues of search Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP = documents (Query, Response, others?) Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related = RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?), drafting one separated search = document to cover the advanced search function #4 Other Open Questions 1) How to clearly define the basic search function and the = advanced one?=20 2) Need we to consider the search function across different = RDAP servers? (Search + Redirect ?) Cheers, Ning From superuser@gmail.com Thu Jul 18 00:16:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76CF821E804D for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:16:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d8YhkIOn9l1o for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x22f.google.com (mail-we0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7E1221F9FC8 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f175.google.com with SMTP id t59so2527851wes.6 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:15:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=/lLdIcw8WPkXc7jHy+GvQZoQXl2ly6fwj1m9gWcZ6OM=; b=zJ1QQ8xS5GNW4Z1k0YKWw0ZBsdzYadopfE9kLHslnw2Px3SrBUktN2DsyljMsaxPhe nT7zbCZk8nKip8KGOUTPyBPAwF0lTX8EzuxeUe3nutrxYaGDj1nJmx4HZ0d1yVVzN+H6 5l3QN0oD46astGizXura2ZH+Xcuo4Fsg58V1m7qHsg0rmm8K5e8n7eoKNsFql/YC2THj scHprN5HjOGvMTSrVuKOdxS/e0M/YQNRTErgOm7ekvOmO4V3oUDqlbpI+G6wrOwCqbR5 tBoA+8aAoA+ohaUs94IIlL0wBGpWiXrEBwvog4/SWji9WPsTIYJKkCHq5TWl+gheWJ+g p6CQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.48.116 with SMTP id k20mr7662269wjn.23.1374131759911; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:15:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> References: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 00:15:59 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Ning Kong Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7ba975e66c978004e1c3fb2d Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 07:16:01 -0000 --047d7ba975e66c978004e1c3fb2d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Ning Kong wrote: > I try to list all related open questions on the search functions through > this new thread. Any comments are appreciated! > I'd like to get some on-list discussion of this stuff, please. We've allocated only 10 minutes to this in Berlin, and the set of search topics Ning posted will take far longer than that to cover. Figuring out what to discuss in person would be a really good idea; the rest can be handled on the list. Speaking as a participant, I like the idea of only doing the lowest common denominator in the base documents, which is to say the prefix domain name matching that someone (I think it was John Levine) found several providers do. I don't have a current preference in terms of how that would be specified in the query. -MSK --047d7ba975e66c978004e1c3fb2d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Ning Kong <nkong@cnnic.cn> wrote:
I try to list all related open questions on the search functions through th= is new thread. Any comments are appreciated!

I'd like to get some on-list discussion of this stuff, please.=A0= We've allocated only 10 minutes to this in Berlin, and the set of sear= ch topics Ning posted will take far longer than that to cover.=A0 Figuring = out what to discuss in person would be a really good idea; the rest can be = handled on the list.

Speaking as a participant, I like the idea of only doing the= lowest common denominator in the base documents, which is to say the prefi= x domain name matching that someone (I think it was John Levine) found seve= ral providers do.=A0 I don't have a current preference in terms of how = that would be specified in the query.

-MSK
--047d7ba975e66c978004e1c3fb2d-- From johnl@iecc.com Thu Jul 18 07:01:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6201511E8146 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 07:01:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.813 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.813 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.386, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wZcqYdYOP8XP for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 07:01:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0DEF11E8133 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 07:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 31558 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2013 14:01:07 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 18 Jul 2013 14:01:07 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51e7f522.xn--i8sz2z.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=10DH3VH0KxuinoSe7dZAopL0uzbt5Hf5o1a8Zuc50Ek=; b=FHzux+RDjaTL4QMsTANKxCijazDCIXRARJtqAXRjAWlwF80sYMFbV4HDkVzNMxHuCcp/w98ljJumJ+OGfujTD5dY8HAT6t2ZsIesSttcN4Pm/42tWfnBoH8HnzRmDG77dw9l2MaJkfipwQ6ygghOYazY755fC9OqZBfyefvqfH3NlTuyeAgNx+lCYxc1tbmYD7ERY5GqFDNP8gNLi0qsNnaDlbKwBe5CWdJYwomUXof9Jm5/gutik0HJHwMQ13Cb DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51e7f522.xn--i8sz2z.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=10DH3VH0KxuinoSe7dZAopL0uzbt5Hf5o1a8Zuc50Ek=; b=KPYoEgG1B5LbxqadSOr3U2UTjO39DDgIG37mwUqt1X21Dv1yXvns17wiEC/dmA3TwXH8VnogMY9WdLs4rpDSOuCBtox1HZsuXaFX0q2kNGL0BAwy5U27PyqOxT2GPTtNxB7BOsY/ai0Fk1dkrnlrp6Z1NmNDrmp96rhf4AybaNKwVavaawLfpoHQ72edtLRgVw0GMiq8ke59/7IejMVR7qfj2pSYwIXeaGTpF+NO0JS3PfgTy9oTRYuNxxl2eJOV Date: 18 Jul 2013 14:00:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20130718140044.9336.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 14:01:19 -0000 >Speaking as a participant, I like the idea of only doing the lowest common >denominator in the base documents, which is to say the prefix domain name >matching that someone (I think it was John Levine) found several providers >do. I don't have a current preference in terms of how that would be >specified in the query. Steve Sheng and I didn't find anyone who provided anything other than a prefix match on specific fields. Although I understand why consumers might want fancier options, it seems unlikely that providers would ever implement them, and I don't see any point in spending time on non-existent features. The typical index structure that databases use (B-trees, if you know what they are) make a prefix match cheap and easy. Anything else beyond a range match is a lot slower. So I don't think it's a coincidence that prefix match is all they offer. R's, John From andy@arin.net Thu Jul 18 09:26:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5245311E818D for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 09:26:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cHGRN3xVsvtR for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 09:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 324C321E813B for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 09:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 8F5F616533E; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C19165320; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:25:28 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:25:27 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP Thread-Index: AQHOg1EY743Uqi/U0EebHY06AK1FMZlqSbmAgABxFgD//+VOgA== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 16:25:05 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20130718140044.9336.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <83889D747605054E85D8C85B80E72306@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 16:26:07 -0000 On 7/18/13 10:00 AM, "John Levine" wrote: >>Speaking as a participant, I like the idea of only doing the lowest >>common >>denominator in the base documents, which is to say the prefix domain name >>matching that someone (I think it was John Levine) found several >>providers >>do. I don't have a current preference in terms of how that would be >>specified in the query. > >Steve Sheng and I didn't find anyone who provided anything other than >a prefix match on specific fields. > >Although I understand why consumers might want fancier options, it >seems unlikely that providers would ever implement them, and I don't >see any point in spending time on non-existent features. > >The typical index structure that databases use (B-trees, if you know >what they are) make a prefix match cheap and easy. Anything else >beyond a range match is a lot slower. So I don't think it's a >coincidence that prefix match is all they offer. I agree with John. As to the specific fields, John do you have a list? -andy From johnl@taugh.com Thu Jul 18 10:15:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33DAC11E8196 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:15:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZSsB3xlFgKqT for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C54F11E8167 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 84860 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2013 17:15:02 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=14b7a.51e82296.k1307; bh=nBVAce+qMHYjHvrnREvljpR7OOfIb9uLJqY3F+9d9y4=; b=ZxXEEBSk2DwlBMbyLpTx1rE+Cqr8fqXqx6C6FPQJ0jpB3XsK3LIWHS8dCmT1Jup7zPICWt7CdVGJdfgG5dE4/f1jDAVMMBkDz6+P8adhJvHfTXGNFo0/y6DgD3rCOE+HmKDW761AwnMGieQv9k1WEs+suSEOu2WcTOEQpa2b9MyQaca/6xbZVtCaZDhaIY9Jz6lho5QCT2VG0SKZlxEZ8m7DSIktH14fuzG3M13L5aP8Ryhr7qy0zUn/Y9fXL7EV DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=14b7a.51e82296.k1307; bh=nBVAce+qMHYjHvrnREvljpR7OOfIb9uLJqY3F+9d9y4=; b=Ccsj6Ng1NqSLjL2E4e6yVI4H0E4okNpAswrDmVae8mkoLTV0YokLGacxozQ9KXLzUNGuGowoUhIZiYNEYOjV9lPJdEARbglTRTqxwH2pvf1owDv04NiOB5fg+Q6UhyiZxGt4/bhFEjZ/oLLy9sKkmwPH5KyBrvRzl4fu53cEI1Lve2O8/9W9KixcY8fdzplG9VqPUtwmv6JJ+gqAyz39cOg47ecRpqHfve5UL2ghMuCNxidk5MoirnLbIh9icwb7 Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 18 Jul 2013 17:14:40 -0000 Date: 18 Jul 2013 13:15:02 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Andy Newton" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:15:10 -0000 > As to the specific fields, John do you have a list? Neustar: domain, nameserver, registrar, contact Afilias: name, host (I think same as nameserver), contact, registrar Verisign: domain, nameserver, registrar As best I recall, every searchable WHOIS was run by one of these three. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From edainow@afilias.info Thu Jul 18 10:33:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B3E11E81A0 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:33:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lg-pTZVkqX-7 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DBE721E814C for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Uzs50-0003y1-3y for weirds@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:33:26 +0000 Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com ([209.85.215.54]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Uzs4z-0005je-6E for weirds@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:33:26 +0000 Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id ec20so2777772lab.27 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:33:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=o++2emOJXMj6Ha2OBnCsTn4Jd/ax2QNIlYuQOrdw1Uk=; b=DYEXRqfQpxDTwOpFyw0406ff4rqsW+5qBoqyOWG5BPzxzj8aHCfHvagWoaMhiuTmbk bly2/o7QE4cF+KDjP47g8yprUaUX5gCfRD0OovZrY37ym1ekkZja7jeoY1VIoVwFXpLs 7Tf8k43d10EWawumQhUcaPvPfTBTxcxTx6Hp8g4Lsu9JGnLeJ+yYl9BpUicAzXESCprx PWuGJDpEy9c1lID7AtOeVVgsIhOzHNe2AmnsZ3qJnTBiVb0snxuxmWHEmR8zCsZL+AQz Z29UiRdzlZqI6N93CMhcMrxDYN+DPwyPAIZRmy9NolqvSuEd1LzNyj29KzXTRktSZPyT dL+w== X-Received: by 10.112.55.9 with SMTP id n9mr6011023lbp.5.1374168799629; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:33:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.55.9 with SMTP id n9mr6011022lbp.5.1374168799526; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.79.137 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:33:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 13:33:19 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ernie Dainow To: John R Levine Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c333b028507604e1cc9b7c X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmgJ7KB8d1z4SyRpEgRwvsU37sRy8IFWXZhLEVXBblRwysp6wJQYCZJ0gboturU4lKcY4kX/LzQVv3R+gHOGLVhhzGI6j6yES9Zj4o0TSEOoBIvB2QGor3x1oNsEGJYZ6WK/4Dt Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:33:34 -0000 --001a11c333b028507604e1cc9b7c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 OK, redirecting a url at the web server is not a big concern. Defining a service by a name instead of an IP address is more of the flexibility issue. In a production environment, moving a service from one server to another often requires changing the IP address. This is typically done in a maintenance window, say 2 hours at a planned date and time. If Operations must rely on a third party to reconfigure the DNS, they have less control in a tight timeframe. All maintenance changes also require a backout plan, so that if unanticipated problems are encountered, the maintenance can be aborted. This might require the DNS be reconfigured back to the original IP. To address these concerns, a DNS bootstrap should support CNAMES, not just A/AAAA records. A provider would register a generic name that would never require changing and then would have control over configuring the IP address. -Ernie On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 12:43 PM, John R Levine wrote: > However, this solution has limitations because the server cannot be >> configured with a general url path. >> > > 1) all RDAP servers must be either http or https (http with redirect to >> https where necessary may address this adequately) >> > > Agreed. I was previously arguing that everyone should use https, but > people with more https experience than me persuaded me otherwise. > > CA management is mess, particularly when you expect to have servers > managed by hundreds of different organizations in every country of the > world. SSL failures will be frequent, due to either config errors or > clients not knowing about a server's favorite CA. > > Someone also noted that a later extension to add signatures to the JSON > return values would not be hard, either what JOSE is doing or something > much simpler with a signed hash of a canonicalized JSON string. > > > 2) in a production environment it adds great flexibility to be able >> define a service with a url path. >> > > In an Apache web server it is literally a minute's work to create server > config rules to rewrite URLs to map into whatever crufty underlying > structure you want. I've done it more times than I can remember. Ditto > Nginx. Ditto lighttpd. Ditto application level frameworks like Werkzeug. > > What kind of web servers do registries use that can't do that? > > R's, > John > --001a11c333b028507604e1cc9b7c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK, redirecting a url at the web server is not a big = concern. Defining a service by a name instead of an IP address is more of t= he flexibility issue.=A0

In a production environme= nt, moving a service from one server to another often requires changing the= IP address. This is typically done in a maintenance window, say 2 hours at= a planned date and time. If Operations must rely on a third party to recon= figure the DNS, they have less control in a tight timeframe. All maintenanc= e changes also require a backout plan, so that if unanticipated problems ar= e encountered, the maintenance can be aborted. This might require the DNS b= e reconfigured back to the original IP.

To address these concerns, a DNS bootstrap should suppo= rt CNAMES, not just A/AAAA records. A provider would register a generic nam= e that would never require changing and then would have control over config= uring the IP address.

-Ernie


On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 12:43 PM, = John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
However, this solution has limitations because the server cannot be configu= red with a general url path.

1) all RDAP servers must be either http or https (http with redirect to htt= ps where necessary may address this adequately)

Agreed. =A0I was previously arguing that everyone should use https, but peo= ple with more https experience than me persuaded me otherwise.

CA management is mess, particularly when you expect to have servers managed= by hundreds of different organizations in every country of the world. =A0S= SL failures will be frequent, due to either config errors or clients not kn= owing about a server's favorite CA.

Someone also noted that a later extension to add signatures to the JSON ret= urn values would not be hard, either what JOSE is doing or something much s= impler with a signed hash of a canonicalized JSON string.


2) in a production environment it adds great flexibility to be able define = a service with a url path.

In an Apache web server it is literally a minute's work to create serve= r config rules to rewrite URLs to map into whatever crufty underlying struc= ture you want. =A0I've done it more times than I can remember. =A0Ditto= Nginx. =A0Ditto lighttpd. =A0Ditto application level frameworks like Werkz= eug.

What kind of web servers do registries use that can't do that?

R's,
John

--001a11c333b028507604e1cc9b7c-- From edainow@afilias.info Thu Jul 18 11:13:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 223B311E81BA for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:13:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4FfJN3E0UtIC for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE1611E81B7 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:13:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Uzshe-0006C9-3T for weirds@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:13:22 +0000 Received: from mail-la0-f51.google.com ([209.85.215.51]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Uzshd-00075M-6A for weirds@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:13:22 +0000 Received: by mail-la0-f51.google.com with SMTP id ga9so1031070lab.38 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:13:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=9mk/rZCKjRp7zFgOMnqSkYlSZ7qpq2ZkFHafI8UPO8c=; b=N/1GO/5d7FRgDhKNEHlWYH5SYWNOwFDTaEoFCHdsS3UxHtAHa0UrLM5RB7mHt7go/W KP4rPubQABfqYBByxPyUMhBolPWpqJH8+Ouu8fD7nojSwOvzB+/CaNVD1jFSijRY0jVU ZoHhPKoUoUVotL9Ur1WAGnBtxPjdRCTTgIp/eUoP4uBqLpXwnCxJ7WtDvaoSf+wuHWNI ejotU+7rwlAdlk1At5N2Pd/yFKNWauQe6SXTM0uogho1EEsCVw55HfKilb+siEvTbcnV iqPaqieDhk3F8hVxe+F0JySkUZu4U7XQAV2HwwxLXdXF5qrb01LdCHAbmg5J1PN/kd7i 58Kw== X-Received: by 10.152.115.142 with SMTP id jo14mr5713617lab.87.1374171195582; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:13:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.115.142 with SMTP id jo14mr5713613lab.87.1374171195460; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.79.137 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:13:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 14:13:15 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ernie Dainow To: John R Levine Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3504cf75fb904e1cd291f X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlV4ddJckaA5FOjCp8jrtYt/A4cle/ZvFgo8Q0D8RY5Y2S/ApNbmns4WCos+r/DNinNePIRVs5SmrgE+qCIdiOnPh088SN+UJLGygpq2ntAKaRY8w3pwj9MPia8LfZK0N4cYOtR Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:13:28 -0000 --001a11c3504cf75fb904e1cd291f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 1:15 PM, John R Levine wrote: > As to the specific fields, John do you have a list? >> > > Neustar: domain, nameserver, registrar, contact > > Afilias: name, host (I think same as nameserver), contact, registrar > host = nameserver contact is searchable only by handle registrar is searchable by handle or name more details: whois -h whois.afilias.info help -Ernie > > Verisign: domain, nameserver, registrar > > As best I recall, every searchable WHOIS was run by one of these three. > > --001a11c3504cf75fb904e1cd291f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 1:15 PM, John R Levine &l= t;johnl@taugh.com&= gt; wrote:
As to the specific fields, John do you have a list?

Neustar: domain, nameserver, registrar, contact

Afilias: name, host (I think same as nameserver), contact, registrar

host =3D nameserver
contact is sear= chable only by handle
registrar is searchable by handle or name
more details:
whois -h whois.afilias.info help

-Ernie
= =A0

Verisign: =A0domain, nameserver, registrar

As best I recall, every searchable WHOIS was run by one of these three.

--001a11c3504cf75fb904e1cd291f-- From johnl@taugh.com Thu Jul 18 11:39:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5749521E8168 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:39:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.609 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.609 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.009, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AaEocTkLTWBK for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70C521E8161 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 11:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5900 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2013 18:39:24 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=170b.51e8365c.k1307; bh=7O+YnDzLqy1LpPndEo+c8UeUb45EEADY99tSrjiMpo4=; b=jkymVYarBFR3fps1mDMynYjApuEVGvWMOY+P0A3Izv4P0U5R8I/l/8yNdAuNSSmR2Gf7tq7Ar/XNmMeIM4lklWIvcQBCGo03zh5t5S6LTrW+F4Rpi2+8sUDhW9Oao71T3zUHxOhAcVM8IkVfuupoD8LmkG/Nw090gyBq8P191M4o+7bbiikjx7jxE8azeHNMJ/QgaCOkQN/CWo2fx/zvE2FZ1SCoEj0/XYV+yMPueaSAjafwXfJPEAVWhAd8eXgw DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=170b.51e8365c.k1307; bh=7O+YnDzLqy1LpPndEo+c8UeUb45EEADY99tSrjiMpo4=; b=aUL7tTkP2tjzHQ6gKYBdiN9k0dBtUY0tDr7OglZT+W73MAUKX9EosHQ0tToZimsVY6ioNGGeeYllFa/3wMhCE+yrChpmVTc2HyUb9oUPj8YhFngLrSLftk7uka+ad2gLLTHtpqlh1xyCDXzMunpd2TSHhZ1flM2HCMHMIlRE4o+tt+1K015RnE73I+du0Rgp0xW4QajTLTjEZ4Rvsbw+I4RQm70Zn5pWLjwstosrCMeQzBhLhSxQHlxIyy8BoOWv Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 18 Jul 2013 18:39:02 -0000 Date: 18 Jul 2013 14:39:23 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Ernie Dainow" In-Reply-To: References: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:39:35 -0000 > To address these concerns, a DNS bootstrap should support CNAMES, not just > A/AAAA records. A provider would register a generic name that would never > require changing and then would have control over configuring the IP > address. Well, sure. That was always the plan as far as I know. > In a production environment, moving a service from one server to another > often requires changing the IP address. This is typically done in a > maintenance window, say 2 hours at a planned date and time. ... RDAP is a stateless read-only service. I would think it would be easier and more robust to bring up the new server in parallel with the old one, point the DNS at it, then wait and turn off the old one when the traffic dies down. This avoids having to do flash cutovers which work badly on the Internet. R's, John From edainow@afilias.info Thu Jul 18 12:51:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9429F21E8096 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:51:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i5QuJwep57Ju for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:51:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FCF611E81F6 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:51:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UzuEN-0003fG-4c for weirds@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 19:51:15 +0000 Received: from mail-la0-f54.google.com ([209.85.215.54]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UzuEN-0002ii-43 for weirds@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 19:51:15 +0000 Received: by mail-la0-f54.google.com with SMTP id ec20so2883790lab.27 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:51:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=ahY3GR5m96nsNUco+dA4XnTHfpfwJJ0+98gdLYdkM70=; b=M8c+TfF0yFrWUtcLzGPUYctGIjalsKCYAbZhv3YN4cw2EspSi9b+tD+oygGiFOXf3n x4DbkH6DbcmU1um2+ayWhzsjYzwEnLJJePj01YMBoDfQzrWuTb/LLnkmhEHGsHkYrDTf WT8S4WAH9jXK8Qj82ZEfaZIKUNah2LPFaHWdhClAjABSKfFVM/H+N0MdJq6bD9f20MbA z+TOg5nHZBUeMuq31zwIc+zcgJgRpJag55PPjzu3xeVxZ0T3YbGC7CeDnYau7XcJoq8E v0p9Elu2Y/n30XWyISiEDVnmMtlVUFkyJ6dubn1qmbOfibS30RIJQDjq7oJVhxvKl0jl WTtg== X-Received: by 10.112.126.195 with SMTP id na3mr501791lbb.61.1374177068929; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:51:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.126.195 with SMTP id na3mr501788lbb.61.1374177068814; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.79.137 with HTTP; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:51:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <51E573A1.9040305@afilias.info> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 15:51:08 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ernie Dainow To: John R Levine Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3772a0ba28e04e1ce88ec X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnm6pSppYvXknHsuqc2C2G8LR+gE1eZ6MYX7NfaRKPHacko9gHv4kICk13iU9ggB/BktZC07ZW5yAfVBvl2vytXinwurI86Fg9JRmyX/9hloM2XBc9PiVxfOHO/rjBZxToepkdr Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] WGLC: draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query-05 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 19:51:27 -0000 --001a11c3772a0ba28e04e1ce88ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, John R Levine wrote: > To address these concerns, a DNS bootstrap should support CNAMES, not just >> A/AAAA records. A provider would register a generic name that would never >> require changing and then would have control over configuring the IP >> address. >> > > Well, sure. That was always the plan as far as I know. > The last few messages on this included only A/AAAA records, and CNAME is not in the last requirements list. > > In a production environment, moving a service from one server to another >> often requires changing the IP address. This is typically done in a >> maintenance window, say 2 hours at a planned date and time. ... >> > > RDAP is a stateless read-only service. I would think it would be easier > and more robust to bring up the new server in parallel with the old one, > point the DNS at it, then wait and turn off the old one when the traffic > dies down. This avoids having to do flash cutovers which work badly on the > Internet. > > > Yes, you must run the old server for at least as long as the TTL on the DNS record. Once TTL expires, nobody is going to be trying to reach the old IP (unless some client is using hard coded IP addresses instead of DNS names). This doesn't change the maintenance issue. Generally customers need to be informed in advance of changes in service, so you have to change the IP address at a scheduled time and be prepared to roll back on short notice. -Ernie --001a11c3772a0ba28e04e1ce88ec Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 2:39 PM, John R Levine &l= t;johnl@taugh.com&= gt; wrote:
To address these concerns, a DNS bootstrap should support CNAMES, not just<= br> A/AAAA records. A provider would register a generic name that would never require changing and then would have control over configuring the IP
address.

Well, =A0sure. =A0That was always the plan as far as I know.

The last few messages on this included only A/AAAA re= cords, and CNAME is not in the last =A0requirements list.
=A0

In a production environment, moving a service from one server to another often requires changing the IP address. This is typically done in a
maintenance window, say 2 hours at a planned date and time. ...

RDAP is a stateless read-only service. =A0I would think it would be easier = and more robust to bring up the new server in parallel with the old one, po= int the DNS at it, then wait and turn off the old one when the traffic dies= down. =A0This avoids having to do flash cutovers which work badly on the I= nternet.


Yes, you must run the old server for at least as = long as the TTL on the DNS record. Once TTL expires, nobody is going to be = trying to reach the old IP (unless some client is using hard coded IP addre= sses instead of DNS names).

This doesn't change the maintenance issue. Generall= y customers need to be informed in advance of changes in service, so you ha= ve to change the IP address at a scheduled time and be prepared to roll bac= k on short notice.=A0

-Ernie
=A0
--001a11c3772a0ba28e04e1ce88ec-- From edainow@afilias.info Thu Jul 18 12:57:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D543A11E81FE for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:57:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.098, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NnxrLcDM2Ceh for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF7D21E8179 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UzuKI-0003yB-4a for weirds@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 19:57:22 +0000 Received: from mail-ie0-f176.google.com ([209.85.223.176]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1UzuKI-0002uf-4H for weirds@ietf.org; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 19:57:22 +0000 Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id ar20so8079132iec.35 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:57:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :x-gm-message-state; bh=jw0TPdKWcyLERuIIukNX9XnPzMCRcYPpUxuJIYxa8W4=; b=oBOnCDM4W/ONm/vB8fWooxSaWMdHGo7o5bRrzw40tgqehYy2w1fsdJkmHix08ojO+8 b2knXQKVXcQp7+noUISA+IldwK2bv62bGkDGqAATtrPcWOAO3tpANT3qS3NfNAn1KgXZ GgJLDk92/cRYWk39nO0yUKfCKXnMAvZMdwgMPfHH/JluHs/A/U1mHVLtLbLnOm3leMJ6 di6MtvHA2sdws2pjp0a4gbNXFxifoFSiDZZuyzuYrDLfbDx3Zq/9agIiqOTi8lLSC7kE hPjF5kr52y+zEdkGzw+VFRJDKCneLTQRDlafP6CXtfUdsD2y0OXUHXY98MCRY8LAfAYk 35QQ== X-Received: by 10.43.181.136 with SMTP id pi8mr6775500icc.10.1374177436892; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:57:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.43.181.136 with SMTP id pi8mr6775496icc.10.1374177436743; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.10.68.31] (tor-gateway.afilias.info. [199.15.87.4]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y2sm11374839igl.10.2013.07.18.12.57.15 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <51E84898.7010404@afilias.info> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 15:57:12 -0400 From: Ernie Dainow User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Newton References: <51D44CF5.4040300@afilias.info> In-Reply-To: <51D44CF5.4040300@afilias.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnCCHVdIXksftCt04+fOhzzQK/jej8I5QQlYoGPvQQY4Z04Tn3LFz44horwJJhMUqJdVBNMLevG4X43K5lV48zL9keWIZ6/n/oq/E9xfRU0V6x+5POWfJ2W2vlmynljjPyei4hq Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] comments on draft-ietf-weirds-json-response-04 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 19:57:31 -0000 Here are some additional Status values we currently use. Can they also be added to Section 9.1. hold: The domain will not be published in a zone for DNS resolution. This status is placed on the domain by the registrar. locked: The domain cannot be transferred, renewed, or deleted. Hierarchical and associated objects cannot be added or removed from the domain object. Domain names involved in disputes may be locked, subject to registry policies. Pending States - a request has been received and completion of the request is pending. The domain cannot be renewed, deleted, or updated while in any of these states. pending create pending renew pending transfer pending update pending delete: The domain has been removed from the zone, but has not yet been purged from the registry database. -Ernie On 7/3/2013 12:10 PM, Ernie Dainow wrote: > > p.24 What is [1] in > idnTable -- the name of the IDN table of codepoints, such as one > listed with the IANA (see IDN tables [1]). > > 9.1 Status > Add "associated" (as indicated in log on p.69 - Added associated to > the list of status values.) > Add "renew prohibited" > Correct spelling of "transfer prohibited" > p.29 "status" : [ "locked", "transferProhibited" ], > p.62 "status" : [ "locked", "transfer Prohibited" ], > > 9.3 Roles > Can we add "notifications" > For an example, see whois trip.asia > > p.40 and 61 > To be consistent with other examples of links in entity objects, change > "rel":"alternate" to "rel":"self" > > Appendixes > These sections contain a lot of information that is easily missed. > Some important concepts about entities are only covered in Appendix A > and C. It might be more streamlined to merge and integrate them into > Section 6.1 "The Entity Object Class". At least provide a reference > from 6.1 to Appendix A and C. > > -Ernie > From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Thu Jul 18 17:47:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F5E221E8092 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:47:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pqwY7BaTAUFA for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 625BE21E80FB for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2620:0:230:2001::1001] (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:2001::1001]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BEA6B40404; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 20:47:11 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 20:47:11 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: "John R Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:47:13 -0000 Le 2013-07-18 =E0 13:15, "John R Levine" a =E9crit : >> As to the specific fields, John do you have a list? >=20 > Neustar: domain, nameserver, registrar, contact >=20 > Afilias: name, host (I think same as nameserver), contact, registrar >=20 > Verisign: domain, nameserver, registrar >=20 > As best I recall, every searchable WHOIS including all cctld? or just the gTLD? Marc. > was run by one of these three. >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for = Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. = http://jl.ly > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From johnl@taugh.com Thu Jul 18 17:49:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A99211E8176 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:49:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a0GT8y+XrhjL for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:49:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE0FC11E8165 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 86133 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2013 00:49:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=15073.51e88d20.k1307; bh=ObrygmldATQ2AjyUOVTNNqsHMf7rurLW/cCYo8n3JyE=; b=fomAyfr/mB7iGRF+o98rq3VfMnLLBfkvmXAgDIcsAA78KwdkOyM8nU3nvlYx/+KYjSQWpROq+3enT+lEEwibdAaMQSUZKRpxEzVdtM13NY4CVA+hlm6uyBt/k/qKTnQSv5XfUPm43gYsaM77htuu+coflZBJz/BLHLA6W+yeS+2sDEKQ0hIBT/i+W3uZrOEXBSZouwJB5eEIVFLD49oV4DukJY5o6firjlu4XcgH3qImykScetaB/OLpI0ML+lIL DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=15073.51e88d20.k1307; bh=ObrygmldATQ2AjyUOVTNNqsHMf7rurLW/cCYo8n3JyE=; b=s6eH+9cQuIAzOF6n/aaAnm3BgtHn+WBueH4gJFfTbCClx27RMXcL6CsjowA7q1mgD2Oqbm3noZeZyLm6r2X1GMrVfLB/gcLsiK/fvwhZRzDEzSUzRc9r3p9sHKMaZLafCtzUQ/rHYpsqkdwMVEdo1suR0Bg9GfTVeLQrgSWX8NrjoV+d9M5cnvM2vd/8igEabcft12DFlVWrCkRvqng1s39SnJjByzhawMtZ6OtqH6XE4pviHKaBbHF/OtB9sxeY Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 19 Jul 2013 00:49:14 -0000 Date: 18 Jul 2013 20:49:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Marc Blanchet" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:49:37 -0000 >> As best I recall, every searchable WHOIS >> was run by one of these three. > including all cctld? or just the gTLD? I didn't check every ccTLD, but the only ones I found that provided any sort of search were run by those three big registries. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From james.mitchell@ausregistry.com.au Thu Jul 18 17:57:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F83811E8176 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mtr5BsPatbbR for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [120.29.255.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CD911E815A for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 17:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 19 Jul 2013 10:57:21 +1000 Received: from OFFEX01.ausregistrygroup.local (10.30.220.61) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local (10.30.1.3) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.298.1; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:57:19 +1000 Received: from MELEX01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.11.220.61]) by OFFEX01.ausregistrygroup.local ([169.254.2.24]) with mapi id 14.03.0146.000; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:57:19 +1000 From: James Mitchell To: John R Levine , Marc Blanchet Thread-Topic: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP Thread-Index: AQHOg1EJgpPQMSCYoEO8vkTsezJkdJlpXwiAgABxFgCAAChVgIAADfQAgAB+VYCAAACtAIAAp87A Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:57:19 +0000 Message-ID: <50EF51A3DBC0A04AAB898295C84E9C2E04DB18@MELEX01> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.30.16.70] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: protection disabled Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KSE-AntiSpam-Interceptor-Info: protection disabled X-KSE-Antivirus-Interceptor-Info: scan successful X-KSE-Antivirus-Info: Clean Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:57:30 -0000 .au provides partial name match on domain name, host name, and registrar. Regards, James Mitchell AusRegistry > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of John R Levine > Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 10:50 AM > To: Marc Blanchet > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP >=20 > >> As best I recall, every searchable WHOIS > >> was run by one of these three. >=20 > > including all cctld? or just the gTLD? >=20 > I didn't check every ccTLD, but the only ones I found that provided any > sort of search were run by those three big registries. >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for > Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. > http://jl.ly > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From johnl@taugh.com Thu Jul 18 18:08:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20BB611E81AA for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:08:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GIonZQ8nFZfS for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00B7611E8186 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 90100 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2013 01:08:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=15ff3.51e89182.k1307; bh=zpmLGUBzsAWzCx3RYwjfVT1t5xwMH0j9z4jDi0UJ8rs=; b=hf6SV9n3oWbducHxkTU+dHbUXtJI4ro5nTxGvxZPoHATTb/v/EzPU/ban/uA+uYgm+7sYMA5w2HN9gCFGmm4ZwJnRwr029JNjZqKBV/iMybIwU5h1aQIIvW2w2WCJApSYoV8sf/uwzRk+EiMZS4K5S/7BMHNmKWjzbbDKIjKK9kcXmYqAgG+G6E1B4ZSI54CgZuoamyajE9FEicIzOrJOvsCm7J/XVQekxeRHpIHWbODxekKKyCYhb3BaDwRfXNU DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=15ff3.51e89182.k1307; bh=zpmLGUBzsAWzCx3RYwjfVT1t5xwMH0j9z4jDi0UJ8rs=; b=i5wV/CdtJdL/gDXPGOwCsx8/denTbzjZyH8/PsVUKQ/1buXznsOoWoYEQOGB92kJdK/4YCRldxVuvQ2usMvicRRnTZUbiPWM6CyFDvqxfn8G0Myfg3TnDj43n3qgKbognsLD0JfPcSVkJWRl4ilRs3UWqBq74Sq0C6H9Ug1dlxmBqMXTCeFBFNOaoyhfVrHsPSVVtpuP4+c0dJVgTHiMzP0sooHRIDVN54EPJpOzyvW8Bbcx+u9h7xCtWw7czXCG Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 19 Jul 2013 01:07:56 -0000 Date: 18 Jul 2013 21:08:17 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "James Mitchell" In-Reply-To: <50EF51A3DBC0A04AAB898295C84E9C2E04DB18@MELEX01> References: <50EF51A3DBC0A04AAB898295C84E9C2E04DB18@MELEX01> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 01:08:22 -0000 > .au provides partial name match on domain name, host name, and registrar. Tnx. Is it just a prefix match or something more complicated? > > Regards, > James Mitchell > AusRegistry > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of John R Levine >> Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 10:50 AM >> To: Marc Blanchet >> Cc: weirds@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP >> >>>> As best I recall, every searchable WHOIS >>>> was run by one of these three. >> >>> including all cctld? or just the gTLD? >> >> I didn't check every ccTLD, but the only ones I found that provided any >> sort of search were run by those three big registries. >> >> Regards, >> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for >> Dummies", >> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. >> http://jl.ly >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From james.mitchell@ausregistry.com.au Thu Jul 18 18:11:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A8321E8096 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:11:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mQfqP619doZf for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.ausregistry.net.au (mx02.ausregistry.net.au [120.29.255.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D868111E8221 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron02.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 19 Jul 2013 11:11:00 +1000 Received: from OFFEX01.ausregistrygroup.local (10.30.220.61) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local (10.30.1.3) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.298.1; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:10:58 +1000 Received: from MELEX01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.11.220.61]) by OFFEX01.ausregistrygroup.local ([169.254.2.24]) with mapi id 14.03.0146.000; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:10:58 +1000 From: James Mitchell To: John R Levine Thread-Topic: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP Thread-Index: AQHOg1EJgpPQMSCYoEO8vkTsezJkdJlpXwiAgABxFgCAAChVgIAADfQAgAB+VYCAAACtAIAAp87A//9daoCAAKe2AA== Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 01:10:58 +0000 Message-ID: <50EF51A3DBC0A04AAB898295C84E9C2E04DB71@MELEX01> References: <50EF51A3DBC0A04AAB898295C84E9C2E04DB18@MELEX01> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.30.16.70] x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: protection disabled Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KSE-AntiSpam-Interceptor-Info: protection disabled X-KSE-Antivirus-Interceptor-Info: scan successful X-KSE-Antivirus-Info: Clean Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 01:11:15 -0000 Prefix-match. There is a limit on the number of results returned (10 of the= top of my head), and the prefix must be at least five characters (wildcard= from position 6+). > -----Original Message----- > From: John R Levine [mailto:johnl@taugh.com] > Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 11:08 AM > To: James Mitchell > Cc: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP >=20 > > .au provides partial name match on domain name, host name, and > registrar. >=20 > Tnx. Is it just a prefix match or something more complicated? >=20 > > > > Regards, > > James Mitchell > > AusRegistry > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > >> Behalf Of John R Levine > >> Sent: Friday, 19 July 2013 10:50 AM > >> To: Marc Blanchet > >> Cc: weirds@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP > >> > >>>> As best I recall, every searchable WHOIS > >>>> was run by one of these three. > >> > >>> including all cctld? or just the gTLD? > >> > >> I didn't check every ccTLD, but the only ones I found that provided > any > >> sort of search were run by those three big registries. > >> > >> Regards, > >> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet > for > >> Dummies", > >> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. > >> http://jl.ly > >> _______________________________________________ > >> weirds mailing list > >> weirds@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From andy@arin.net Fri Jul 19 07:38:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D9C21F964C for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 07:38:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.223, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ubqKxJ1bQjlX for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 07:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 030CD11E82BC for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 07:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 4BFFB165400; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:38:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EF7B1653FE; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:38:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:37:58 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:37:58 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Ernie Dainow Thread-Topic: comments on draft-ietf-weirds-json-response-04 Thread-Index: AQHOg/EFMo4cHSZ7GUqC3YZlsO1U2JlsEzOA Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:37:57 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <51E84898.7010404@afilias.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] comments on draft-ietf-weirds-json-response-04 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 14:38:18 -0000 Thanks Ernie. Can I list you in the IANA registration? -andy On 7/18/13 3:57 PM, "Ernie Dainow" wrote: >Here are some additional Status values we currently use. Can they also >be added to Section 9.1. > >hold: The domain will not be published in a zone for DNS resolution. >This status is placed on the domain by the registrar. > >locked: The domain cannot be transferred, renewed, or deleted. >Hierarchical and associated objects cannot be added or removed from the >domain object. Domain names involved in disputes may be locked, subject >to registry policies. > >Pending States - a request has been received and completion of the >request is pending. The domain cannot be renewed, deleted, or updated >while in any of these states. >pending create >pending renew >pending transfer >pending update >pending delete: The domain has been removed from the zone, but has not >yet been purged from the registry database. > >-Ernie > > >On 7/3/2013 12:10 PM, Ernie Dainow wrote: >> >> p.24 What is [1] in >> idnTable -- the name of the IDN table of codepoints, such as one >> listed with the IANA (see IDN tables [1]). >> >> 9.1 Status >> Add "associated" (as indicated in log on p.69 - Added associated to >> the list of status values.) >> Add "renew prohibited" >> Correct spelling of "transfer prohibited" >> p.29 "status" : [ "locked", "transferProhibited" ], >> p.62 "status" : [ "locked", "transfer Prohibited" ], >> >> 9.3 Roles >> Can we add "notifications" >> For an example, see whois trip.asia >> >> p.40 and 61 >> To be consistent with other examples of links in entity objects, change >> "rel":"alternate" to "rel":"self" >> >> Appendixes >> These sections contain a lot of information that is easily missed. >> Some important concepts about entities are only covered in Appendix A >> and C. It might be more streamlined to merge and integrate them into >> Section 6.1 "The Entity Object Class". At least provide a reference >> from 6.1 to Appendix A and C. >> >> -Ernie >> > > From edainow@afilias.info Fri Jul 19 08:32:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F59E11E82BB for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:32:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KAGhGqbv7QIa for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAEFA11E8249 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V0CfT-0007Pf-4p for weirds@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 15:32:27 +0000 Received: from mail-la0-f45.google.com ([209.85.215.45]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V0CfT-0002gb-3p for weirds@ietf.org; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 15:32:27 +0000 Received: by mail-la0-f45.google.com with SMTP id ev20so1812861lab.4 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:32:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=uY0sbZwwXDaCm8WwZnkgtzD70eCZsYjOjRChcvQIyOY=; b=JYwVoEJ/pYNiXNRYcOAUDhA1/yZJAQp55XM0r1/nKz9zOdCNw/m77A9xAHU5lvnGfr 5JHUV8rHsiVh5DqsvxTmXL3E6TnLQ+UtN5sq7zMaufubtsMt54u5qg+gclYSCZZiHgxi NifY/VV1f+CIi65O8fbiCjoz+QjE3XEKwnYJx2qGoDcWutt3NT7iCtXfuQzldOkvPyvi 5GHEthK5L/HrdFxgg+5nA31lrRFuawJxuGn12InnUzi/1XPL+5ClFWCy9zhrcG8YQAZz 63/+7lNJS/EFnxGqCe+AO6F2F3tj3ZgBrQZvO6HU4AHFSgMqBUpkrTklqot2HCVfdDc9 495w== X-Received: by 10.112.4.4 with SMTP id g4mr7762722lbg.64.1374247940869; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:32:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.4.4 with SMTP id g4mr7762715lbg.64.1374247940740; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.79.137 with HTTP; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 08:32:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> References: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 11:32:20 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ernie Dainow To: Ning Kong Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae94edab1577cbf04e1df0894 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlV7m7u5hdHIG39SenWXOfs9vA1/QQK4g7kJ2wxWGrMmKytcIpwA4qv5yBUs1Do0n8rjrVSrKucYLitza8CRdbyRNCMTfr5WmZbqO5Saq5eVljBLkFhUFsnWep3Xx2siGS8kblj Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 15:32:38 -0000 --14dae94edab1577cbf04e1df0894 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On another thread there was support for including as the basic search. This would provide search functionality equivalent to a number of existing whois servers. Based on this, the following requirements would be met. #2 What should be the search function? 1) What query types should be searchable yes Domain? Handle? yes Name? Status? Others? yes Nameserver? Handle? yes Name? IP? Others? yes Entity? ID? yes Name? Email? Adr? Others? no IP? Handle? StartAddress? Name? Others? no AS? Handle? StartAutnum? Name? Others? 2) What kind of search functions should be considered? yes Wildcard? single character match, yes multiple characters match, specific number of characters match Boolean? (and, or, not) Page? Order by? (Date, Name) 2) What path segments should be used for search? yes Option1: domains/?name=exampl*.com by hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02 Option2: search/?domain=exampl*.com by zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00 Option3: domains/?name=exampl*.com&page=3&orderby=name 3) What response format should be used for search? Search level? yes Multiple Results? Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Number) Oder by? 4) Others? yes I18N consideration yes Security consideration (Privacy Protection) Anything else? #3 How should we document the search function? Option1: one separated search document which covers all the issues of search Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP documents yes Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related RDAP documents future Drafting one separate search document to cover advanced search -Ernie On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Ning Kong wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I try to list all related open questions on the search functions through > this new thread. Any comments are appreciated! > > #1 Why should we consider the search function? > 1) Optional search function described by the ICANN AGB > 2) ICANN WSWG (Whois Survey Working Group) Survey Results > (Requirement 5 for search) > Note1: the final report of this survey is not published, but > the results can be accessed in the link of > https://community.icann.org/display/WSDT/WSWG+Survey+Results > Note2: According to the results, over 81% respondents support > the search function of domain name, over 53% respondents indicated positive > interest in the search function of others (over 31% for NameServers, over > 32% for Contact Name, over 34% for Contact Email). > > #2 What should be the search function? > 1) What query types should be searchable > Domain? > Handle? > Name? > Status? > Others? > Nameserver? > Handle? > Name? > IP? > Others? > Entity? > ID? > Name? > Email? > Adr? > Others? > IP? > Handle? > StartAddress? > Name? > Others? > AS? > Handle? > StartAutnum? > Name? > Others? > > 2) What kind of search functions should be considered? > Wildcard? (single character match, multiple characters > match, specific number of characters match) > Boolean? (and, or, not) > Page? > Order by? (Date, Name) > > 2) What path segments should be used for search? > Option1: domains/?name=exampl*.com by > hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02 > Option2: search/?domain=exampl*.com by > zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00 > Option3: domains/?name=exampl*.com&page=3&orderby=name > > 3) What response format should be used for search? > Search level ? > Multiple Results ? > Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Number) > Oder by ? > > 4) Others? > I18N consideration > Security consideration (Privacy Protection) > Anything else? > > #3 How should we document the search function? > Option1: one separated search document which covers all the > issues of search > Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP > documents (Query, Response, others?) > Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related RDAP > documents (Query, Response, others?), drafting one separated search > document to cover the advanced search function > > #4 Other Open Questions > 1) How to clearly define the basic search function and the > advanced one? > 2) Need we to consider the search function across different RDAP > servers? (Search + Redirect ?) > > > > Cheers, > Ning > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > --14dae94edab1577cbf04e1df0894 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On another thread there was support for including <= ;draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search> as the basic search. This would pr= ovide search functionality equivalent to a number of existing whois servers= . Based on this, the following requirements would be met.=A0

#2 =A0What should be the search function?
1) =A0What query types shou= ld be searchable
yes = Domain?
Handle?
yes Name?
Status?
Others?
yes Nameserver?
Handle?
yes Name?
= IP?
Others?
yes Entity?
<= span class=3D"" style=3D"white-space:pre"> ID?
yes Name?
Email?
= Adr?
Others?
no IP?
Handle?
StartAddress?
Name?
Others?
no AS?
Handle?
StartAutnum?
Name?
Others?

2) =A0Wh= at kind of search functions should be considered?
yes Wildcard?=A0
single character m= atch,=A0
yes = multiple characters match,=A0
specific number of characters match
Boolean? (and, or,= not)
Page?
Order by? (Dat= e, Name)

2) = =A0What path segments should be used for search?
yes Option1: =A0 domains/?name=3Dexamp= l*.com =A0 =A0 =A0 by hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Opt= ion2: =A0 search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com =A0 =A0 =A0 by zhou-weirds-rdap-rest= ful-search-00
Option3: =A0 domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&page=3D3&orderby=3Dname

3) = =A0What response format should be used for search?
Search level?
yes Multiple Results?
Page ? (Total Page= Number, Current Page Number)
Oder by?

4) =A0Others?
yes I18N considerat= ion
yes Securi= ty consideration (Privacy Protection)
Anything else?

#3 =A0How should we document the search function?
=
Option1: one separa= ted search document which covers all the issues of search
Option2: Merging all the search= function into all related RDAP documents
yes Option3: Merging= the basic search function into all related RDAP documents
future Drafting one separate search document to cover advance= d search


-Ernie



On Wed, Jul 17, 2013= at 8:51 PM, Ning Kong <nkong@cnnic.cn> wrote:

Hi folks,

I try to list all related open questions on the search functions through th= is new thread. Any comments are appreciated!

#1 =A0Why should we consider the search function?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1) =A0Optional search function described by the ICANN AGB =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) =A0ICANN WSWG (Whois Survey Working Group) Survey Result= s (Requirement 5 for search)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Note1: the final report of this survey is not pu= blished, but the results can be accessed in the link of htt= ps://community.icann.org/display/WSDT/WSWG+Survey+Results
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Note2: According to the results, over 81% respon= dents support the search function of domain name, over 53% respondents indi= cated positive interest in the search function of others (over 31% for Name= Servers, over 32% for Contact Name, over 34% for Contact Email).

#2 =A0What should be the search function?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1) =A0What query types should be searchable
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Domain?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Handle?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Status?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Nameserver?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Handle?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 IP?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Entity?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ID?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Email?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Adr?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 IP?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Handle?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 StartAddress?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 AS?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Handle?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 StartAutnum?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) =A0What kind of search functions should be considered? =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Wildcard? (single character match, multiple= characters match, specific number of characters match)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Boolean? (and, or, not)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Page?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Order by? (Date, Name)

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) =A0What path segments should be used for search?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option1: =A0 domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com = =A0 =A0 =A0by hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option2: =A0 search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com = =A0 =A0 =A0by zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option3: =A0 domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&am= p;page=3D3&orderby=3Dname

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 3) =A0What response format should be used for search?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Search level ?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Multiple Results ?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Num= ber)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Oder by ?

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4) =A0Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 I18N consideration
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Security consideration (Privacy Protection)=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Anything else?

#3 =A0How should we document the search function?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option1: =A0one separated search document which covers all = the issues of search
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option2: =A0Merging all the search function into all relate= d RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option3: =A0Merging the basic search function into all rela= ted RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?), drafting one separated searc= h document to cover the advanced search function

#4 =A0Other Open Questions
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1) =A0How to clearly define the basic search function and t= he advanced one?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) =A0Need we to consider the search function across differ= ent RDAP servers? (Search + Redirect ?)



Cheers,
Ning

_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds

--14dae94edab1577cbf04e1df0894-- From edainow@afilias.info Mon Jul 22 08:07:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DF4311E8111 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:07:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oVyLUFgvhEqP for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB9311E80F2 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V1HiF-000871-59 for weirds@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:07:47 +0000 Received: from mail-la0-f49.google.com ([209.85.215.49]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V1HiF-00058y-4b for weirds@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:07:47 +0000 Received: by mail-la0-f49.google.com with SMTP id ea20so5225690lab.22 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:07:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=F8vwRDjDYKwdq60GpVqLHE9XsSb8E/U/dbnuu7xAcx8=; b=i1+DausgYZ6IlhGaxHTPfqzQCbjBY5s8D7TiNGPBDiOD556+Wol4cYMct+v5ux7feT n2gKNLiZvi1B2IozIRUj0NOA0GPcrJg196OVVYnHAwAbAQbYGOX5oL5OVAbKJbnGK8eF hE/dcTRVdVitgZ0WksO4AjUCdegtXDf7DzA650VU6buYjsgs7aOKSxeZAEK0p6XOeiCQ j+j+pk1JWgHyczywg1attmb3TrR55s1rYGoq4KwzDUb79PFcA7eoniWO4WptatAuhtXa wDmKOFy0v0v8pWepzb07gg+EEiUrpeFDnPSOjWSwnXRRjKkh16tS1S5dgBMZY35KIiIl 0vIQ== X-Received: by 10.112.126.195 with SMTP id na3mr6949122lbb.61.1374505660964; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:07:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.126.195 with SMTP id na3mr6949120lbb.61.1374505660849; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.79.137 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:07:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ernie Dainow To: Andy Newton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3772aa83a3b04e21b09a2 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlUvWfYUe26pvxp2ZGGouzIs/KTN4tb5ijlD2lKhWnpOtAks9DeAmS3jCfUMrIoeYwdP9wUyj9dZIDvVtJQHWsmJNw6jBKagsMMJo/omM+nvI8I9QevmS60X9miC8ZfZr5eGm4r Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] search for A-labels X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:07:54 -0000 --001a11c3772aa83a3b04e21b09a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On looking over that section more carefully, I do have a number of questions. The following on p.5 seems unnecessarily restrictive: Clients SHOULD NOT submit search requests with partial matching for DNS A-labels. While there may not be meaning for an arbitrary partial A-label string because it does not represent a proper Unicode string, that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to search for it in some cases. Suppose someone receives a list of domains that includes A-labels, but the margins are exceeded and the string is truncated, to say xn--ykq47 instead of xn--ykq477cfxr. If search for xn--ykq47* is supported, they have a good chance of discovering the full domain name. Since the underlying DNS is ASCII, what is ultimately registered and typically stored in the registry database is the A-label for an IDN. In this case, this is a simple search. If a provider does not store A-labels, then they may not wish to support this type of search. -Ernie On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > > > That's correct, this change impacts both the rdap-query draft and the > json-response draft. > > My only hesitation with this approach is with the internationalization > aspects of search processing. I hope everybody is comfortable with Section > 4 of that draft, especially paragraphs 3 and 4. > > -andy > > --001a11c3772aa83a3b04e21b09a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On looking over that section more carefully, I do have a n= umber of questions.

The following on p.5 seems unne= cessarily restrictive:
Clients SHOULD NOT submit search requests = with partial matching for DNS A-labels.

While there may not be meaning for an arbitrary partial= A-label string because it does not represent a proper Unicode string, that= doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to search for it in some cases.=

Suppose someone receives a list of domains that include= s A-labels, but the margins are exceeded and the string is truncated, to sa= y xn--ykq47 instead of xn--ykq477cfxr. If search for xn--ykq47* is supporte= d, they have a good chance of discovering the full domain name.

Since the underlying DNS is ASCII, what is ultimately r= egistered and typically stored in the registry database is the A-label for = an IDN. In this case, this is a simple search. If a provider does not store= A-labels, then they may not wish to support this type of search.

-Ernie



On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 9:41 AM, An= dy Newton <andy@arin.net> wrote:


That's correct, this change impacts both the rdap-query draft and= the
json-response draft.

My only hesitation with this approach is with the internationalization
aspects of search processing. I hope everybody is comfortable with Section<= br> 4 of that draft, especially paragraphs 3 and 4.

-andy


--001a11c3772aa83a3b04e21b09a2-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Mon Jul 22 08:14:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDD3211E8113 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:14:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.582 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.582 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sAgF088G4wxZ for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:14:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og117.obsmtp.com (exprod6og117.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.39]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16C211E80F6 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob117.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUe1MI0qM1G+FhnpRRlQwmVefqkjOIXaE@postini.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:14:08 PDT Received: from BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexchm01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.255]) by osprey.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6MFDZVn030378 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:13:35 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:13:35 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Ernie Dainow , Andy Newton Thread-Topic: [weirds] search for A-labels Thread-Index: AQHOhu1AJR5ASP+TlkWLsa8Lf6t/6Zlwzatg Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:13:34 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F4921B3AF@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F4921B3AFBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] search for A-labels X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:14:19 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F4921B3AFBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Ernie Dainow Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 11:08 AM To: Andy Newton Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] search for A-labels On looking over that section more carefully, I do have a number of question= s. The following on p.5 seems unnecessarily restrictive: Clients SHOULD NOT submit search requests with partial matching for DNS A-l= abels. While there may not be meaning for an arbitrary partial A-label string beca= use it does not represent a proper Unicode string, that doesn't mean it doe= sn't make sense to search for it in some cases. Suppose someone receives a list of domains that includes A-labels, but the = margins are exceeded and the string is truncated, to say xn--ykq47 instead = of xn--ykq477cfxr. If search for xn--ykq47* is supported, they have a good = chance of discovering the full domain name. A partial A-label can't necessarily be decoded into a partial U-label. We h= ave the SHOULD NOT there because the results may be unpredictable. Scott --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F4921B3AFBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: weirds-b= ounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ernie Dainow
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 11:08 AM
To: Andy Newton
Cc: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] search for A-labels

 

On looking over that section more carefully, I do ha= ve a number of questions.

 

The following on p.5 seems unnecessarily restrictive= :

Clients SHOULD NOT submit search requests with parti= al matching for DNS A-labels.

 

While there may not be meaning for an arbitrary part= ial A-label string because it does not represent a proper Unicode string, t= hat doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to search for it in some cases.=

 

Suppose someone receives a list of domains that incl= udes A-labels, but the margins are exceeded and the string is truncated, to= say xn--ykq47 instead of xn--ykq477cfxr. If search for xn--ykq47* is suppo= rted, they have a good chance of discovering the full domain name.

 

A partial A-label can’t necessarily be decoded into a partia= l U-label. We have the SHOULD NOT there because the results may be unpredic= table.

Scott<= /o:p>

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F4921B3AFBRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From johnl@iecc.com Mon Jul 22 08:40:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444CA11E8123 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:40:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.872 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.872 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.327, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kA88iHG3Fcoz for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC73B11E811D for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 4506 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2013 15:39:56 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 22 Jul 2013 15:39:56 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51ed524c.xn--hew.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=7XJYjvh4VqNlSbssQ5LMuG85mqHVjRRH0x4CJr4CJbw=; b=RwSR3N1aHKiiOZi6swgRbAXj92XJ1XnHmArmiDkJgkLXO1Hnj00QO0EslgzrDBCk/7Gk//Soz3oDyPGtqjihTqhpn4HMa7wUaqmzn0Z0606c/ekSu4/FuVv9bF35a4NU2p2MLXcKp+l+8KDW1tsjBWh7ATljs+aRYSPY6m3wPGl7bjNRdkrmlu6d++udaVD6ryMeUBxe9lPmXwmGk1mwfPgPo59Avt8lL5RMjcF4c2vhRkWfEADkjl//l1bbKKOB DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51ed524c.xn--hew.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=7XJYjvh4VqNlSbssQ5LMuG85mqHVjRRH0x4CJr4CJbw=; b=FmlKxqqzq9UG6Zm7pJQtSKKprxpaiVMnMbqOZAlL+R9MNN08jkq0d/tFOIs4ZmN3ZQqKb96qCRO8ACnFK5IlXr+65gWsotDs94FAwzOCz1o9Hnt1hfjIQC5+MEFGiWIoktZRGjxvczGhHZp9rLv5rP2KtByCHQfjpMBTgJMipt8/I5btkC9QaXBzK74G/94n8VvFo3+zG0Xw7BN6vE+DfWPEydTnjW+c9yZSzwnlXIKne/VQf7cqZN16M6VcI+tD Date: 22 Jul 2013 15:39:33 -0000 Message-ID: <20130722153933.60853.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F4921B3AF@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] search for A-labels X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:40:15 -0000 >The following on p.5 seems unnecessarily restrictive: >Clients SHOULD NOT submit search requests with partial matching for DNS A-labels. > ... >A partial A-label can't necessarily be decoded into a partial U-label. We have the SHOULD NOT there because the >results may be unpredictable. But the names they match will be full A-labels. I have to agree with Ernie (for once), this seems like a restriction that forbids some useful scenarios, and doesn't fix anything. If you return the query string in the result and can't decode it, then just don't decode it. If there are A-labels in the database that aren't actually encoded U-labels, that's a different problem. R's, John From edainow@afilias.info Mon Jul 22 08:42:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC68111E80D9 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:42:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mi6hVTsefplC for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD9811E812C for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V1IFi-0001Ki-3K for weirds@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:42:22 +0000 Received: from mail-la0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V1IFh-00064n-60 for weirds@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:42:22 +0000 Received: by mail-la0-f52.google.com with SMTP id fo12so5378877lab.39 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:42:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :x-gm-message-state; bh=7GdPP8FZ3ODwYeOUT4q/HuBxI936ztINShaffIpVcbE=; b=LuJCTrHbKOM+TZ9O55yMvj5vZda7m3Yg8BhW0CrKj3wFt4D1g9RNkDJRIbLi8Mor61 9fQ/t8B75BwoFdkhy6xskTXOWes2fpNEw/brywmU1O0rtOWJR8kPJynBmO2J2ZrFmzKZ mVXWNbjA1KbCOu2sNPZ2fF7CD5czd8qpo3JdX7If2ijIP1uKCVzpP84bCBND81xqbdfv u8HHc81r2DyPdOC6ev9QhWds9NgnhaFJpQGwT9Ib8iyHzE9v3CT+nEmNLjxwsbZykn0w 6T1vCXu0t28ZnfKOjEYuuugDqLR2mBFkKPmZxYhx7MA9/1m7lPNCI2EVzr6PKGA/O2Vq /QqA== X-Received: by 10.152.87.172 with SMTP id az12mr13035365lab.24.1374507735558; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:42:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.87.172 with SMTP id az12mr13035317lab.24.1374507734291; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.79.137 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 08:42:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:14 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ernie Dainow To: Andy Newton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c23e2c3e66e204e21b8521 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmP+3J59nL+A5sKGry/s/QyArWEBKvCHrh8cg4pWdhvlVO2BzRgbi6bn20i3xu7BKtvwD9uuUN58OTVRPu65OAL2MgYnM3yR6UVCkyqKNcfNaZ2FVCfnvqEbswbn12pU2EHX7/z Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] search Unicode partial match X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:42:29 -0000 --001a11c23e2c3e66e204e21b8521 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The following is unnecessarily restrictive and adds a lot of checking on the client. p.3 Clients MUST NOT issue a partial match search of Unicode characters where a Unicode character may be legally combined with another ... The onus should be on the server to return no results. Guidelines for server side partial matching refer to [RFC5892] and [I-D.ietf-precis-nickname]. These seem to be overkill for search, as they describe processing to determine whether an internationalized name is valid or not. Since search is not registration, it is only important to determine whether names exist or not. While it is useful to return an error on a search when the name is invalid, this requires a lot of extra checking and should be optional. It would be more consistent to refer to [RFC5891] to specify the match processing, as in 3.3 of draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query: p.5 If the client sends the server an IDN in U-label format, servers that support IDNs MUST convert the IDN into A-label format and perform IDNA processing as specified in RFC 5891. RFC 5891 allows checking for validity to be optional: p.11 This test may be omitted in special circumstances ... However, applying the test is likely to give much better information about the reason for a lookup failure I don't think 3.3 of draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query should be a MUST. If the server stores IDN domain names as U-labels, this seems like a lot of unnecessary complication and overhead to convert to A-label. A server should be able to just lookup the U-label directly. -Ernie On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > > That's correct, this change impacts both the rdap-query draft and the > json-response draft. > > My only hesitation with this approach is with the internationalization > aspects of search processing. I hope everybody is comfortable with Section > 4 of that draft, especially paragraphs 3 and 4. > > -andy > > --001a11c23e2c3e66e204e21b8521 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The following is unnecessarily restrictive and adds a= lot of checking on the client.
p.3 Clients MUST NOT issue a part= ial match search of Unicode characters where a Unicode character may be leg= ally combined with another ...

The onus should be on the server to return no results.<= /div>

Guidelines for server side partial matching refer = to [RFC5892] and [I-D.ietf-precis-nickname]. These seem to be overkill for = search, as they describe processing to determine whether an internationaliz= ed name is valid or not. Since search is not registration, it is only impor= tant to determine whether names exist or not. While it is useful to return = an error on a search when the name is invalid, this requires a lot of extra= checking and should be optional.

It would be more consistent to refer to [RFC5891] to sp= ecify the match processing, as in 3.3 of draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query:
p.5 If the client sends the server an IDN in U-label format, servers = that
=A0 =A0support IDNs MUST convert the IDN into A-label format and perfo= rm
=A0 =A0IDNA processing as specified in RFC 5891.
RFC 5891 allows checking for validity to be optional:
p.11
=A0 =A0This test may be omitted in special circumstances ... =A0
=
=A0 =A0However, applying the test is likely to give
=A0 =A0m= uch better information about the reason for a lookup failure

=
I don't think 3.3 of draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query should be a MUST. If = the server stores IDN domain names as U-labels, this seems like a lot of un= necessary complication and overhead to convert to A-label. A server should = be able to just lookup the U-label directly.

-Ernie

<= br>
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 9:41 AM, Andy New= ton <andy@arin.net> wrote:

That's correct, this change impacts both the rdap-query draft and= the
json-response draft.

My only hesitation with this approach is with the internationalization
aspects of search processing. I hope everybody is comfortable with Section<= br> 4 of that draft, especially paragraphs 3 and 4.

-andy


--001a11c23e2c3e66e204e21b8521-- From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Mon Jul 22 10:57:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1572A11E811D for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:57:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bp-qJzhFYzaj for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B86211E80D2 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 10:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CC2F941581; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8D4A1116-7376-4642-966E-B130CD643298" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 13:57:02 -0400 Message-Id: <3B88A72C-D03A-4FB2-A413-95CF75724840@viagenie.ca> References: <51E54616.7070309@qti.qualcomm.com> <51E5D2AB.2020207@gmail.com> To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: Pete Resnick , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Preliminary Berlin WEIRDS Agenda X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:57:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8D4A1116-7376-4642-966E-B130CD643298 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 for bootstrapping, I think we discussed a lot already on the ML and we = are at a stage where we need F2F. I'm currently working on the slides to = foster the discussion on bootstrapping during the meeting and will send = them to the chairs+list when done (asap0, so that we can continue the = discussion before the meeting. Regards, Marc. Le 2013-07-17 =E0 13:38, "Murray S. Kucherawy" a = =E9crit : > Same question here: Can we start this discussion now on the list so we = can make optimal use of our in-person time in Berlin? We only have an = hour. >=20 > -MSK >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Carlos M. martinez = wrote: > My 10' would run more or less be as follows: >=20 > - wrap-up of the discussion so far (even if it's not very recent) > - server bootstrapping, how it has been done in the known = implementations > - the server pooling idea, pros, cons > - open questions: > - should we redirect from names to numbers and viceversa or = removing > this requirement simplifies our work in some way ? > - redirects and authentication: expectations for clients, if = need to be > set or just ignored > - open mic >=20 > ... and that would be it. >=20 > regards, >=20 > ~Carlos >=20 > On 7/16/13 1:18 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Pete Resnick = > > wrote: > > > > On 7/15/13 7:06 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > > > > ...is now available; feedback welcome: > > > > = http://www.ietf.org/__proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-__87-weirds > > > > > > > > I have some feedback: > > > > Web Extensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS) > > Agenda -- August 1, 2013 at 10:30-11:30 in Potsdam 2 > > > > - Administrivia (10 mins; chairs) > > - blue sheets > > - minute-taker and jabber scribe > > > > > > Yes, all fine, though I would suggest finding the minute-taker = and > > jabber scribe before the meeting. Asking for volunteers now = would be > > good. Those two items should take 2 minutes tops. > > > > > > Any volunteers? > > > > > > > > - Demo/interop report (5 mins; TBD) > > > > > > I take it this is intended to be a report of the interop/demo = event > > on the previous Saturday. The WG session is on Thursday. Again, = this > > report should be sent out to the list. If something comes out of = the > > report that needs discussion (a bug in one of the specs), that > > should be added to the agenda separately. I see no need for a = report > > being on the agenda. > > > > > > The last interop event led to some discussion, and I was = anticipating > > the same here. I was anticipating the need for face time to discuss = the > > fallout rather than just present a report. My fault for the lousy = naming. > > > > > > - Redirects (10 mins; Carlos Martinez) > > > > > > What is there to discuss on this draft? The list discussion = seems to > > be quiet. > > > > - Search (10 mins; Ning Kong) > > > > > > What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion (or lack of > > discussion) on the list does this relate to? > > > > > > Carlos and Ning, can you give a list of issues you'd like to cover? > > > > On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal = with > > this. We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic search = and > > advanced search document or something else, but I think that was = before > > John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today. The = group > > needs to pick a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search > > capability could be rolled into the rdap-query document fairly = easily (I > > think...). > > > > -MSK > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > weirds mailing list > > weirds@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds --Apple-Mail=_8D4A1116-7376-4642-966E-B130CD643298 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 superuser@gmail.com> a =E9crit = :

Same question here: Can we start this = discussion now on the list so we can make optimal use of our in-person = time in Berlin?  We only have an hour.

-MSK


On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Carlos M. martinez <carlosm3011@gmail.com> = wrote:
My 10' would run more or less be as follows:

- wrap-up of the discussion so far (even if it's not very recent)
- server bootstrapping, how it has been done in the known = implementations
- the server pooling idea, pros, cons
- open questions:
        - should we redirect from names to numbers = and viceversa or removing
this requirement simplifies our work in some way ?
        - redirects and authentication: expectations = for clients, if need to be
set or just ignored
- open mic

... and that would be it.

regards,

~Carlos

On 7/16/13 1:18 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Pete Resnick <presnick@qti.qualcomm.com
> <mailto:presnick@qti.qualcomm.com>= ;> wrote:
>
>     On 7/15/13 7:06 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:
>
>         ...is now available; feedback = welcome:
>
>         http://www.ietf.org/__proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-__87-= weirds
>         = <http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/87/agenda/agenda-87-weir= ds>
>
>
>     I have some feedback:
>
>         Web Extensible Internet Registration = Data Service (WEIRDS)
>         Agenda -- August 1, 2013 at 10:30-11:30 = in Potsdam 2
>
>         - Administrivia (10 mins; chairs)
>           - blue sheets
>           - minute-taker and jabber = scribe
>
>
>     Yes, all fine, though I would suggest finding the = minute-taker and
>     jabber scribe before the meeting. Asking for = volunteers now would be
>     good. Those two items should take 2 minutes tops.
>
>
> Any volunteers?
>
>
>
>         - Demo/interop report (5 mins; TBD)
>
>
>     I take it this is intended to be a report of the = interop/demo event
>     on the previous Saturday. The WG session is on = Thursday. Again, this
>     report should be sent out to the list. If something = comes out of the
>     report that needs discussion (a bug in one of the = specs), that
>     should be added to the agenda separately. I see no = need for a report
>     being on the agenda.
>
>
> The last interop event led to some discussion, and I was = anticipating
> the same here.  I was anticipating the need for face time to = discuss the
> fallout rather than just present a report.  My fault for the = lousy naming.
>
>
>         - Redirects (10 mins; Carlos = Martinez)
>
>
>     What is there to discuss on this draft? The list = discussion seems to
>     be quiet.
>
>         - Search (10 mins; Ning Kong)
>
>
>     What's the plan on this agenda item? What discussion = (or lack of
>     discussion) on the list does this relate to?
>
>
> Carlos and Ning, can you give a list of issues you'd like to = cover?
>
> On the search issue, we do need to decide how we're going to deal = with
> this.  We had discussed in Orlando whether we wanted a basic = search and
> advanced search document or something else, but I think that was = before
> John's survey that showed they're nearly non-existent today. =  The group
> needs to pick a path forward here, since an ultra-simple search
> capability could be rolled into the rdap-query document fairly = easily (I
> think...).
>
> -MSK
>
>
> = _______________________________________________
> weirds mailing list
> weirds@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds
>

_______________________________________________
weirds mailing = list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds

= --Apple-Mail=_8D4A1116-7376-4642-966E-B130CD643298-- From superuser@gmail.com Mon Jul 22 12:17:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7396111E80AD for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:17:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.207 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.207 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.392, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6plFveHXHXDE for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x236.google.com (mail-wi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0DA411E80FA for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:17:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f182.google.com with SMTP id m6so2294009wiv.3 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:17:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=9Ed9m+UXXspFpehdB2T27JLDVfthB7oofNRuTy4DS+Q=; b=uY1/4tOA1gEbCS6asO2px4Rx08KvnBAeQJABGsPbG2Vt+nHqMRBbU9paYARGKp5Yef gOp4gNlJHW8auXXITkKQD7bHLUiZMtiTQKuAxXZHUMPlcUBd1VTOq/ThvhAkpUOtFUgy MvWNe325iEaGSjjBRlRn80anPTdyPMG2SBLe4cRHnM1puJZOuy3lalCSKJHo9Cy3mFRX NDCgeODhqtIlsxPDTGaPT5xR50HJIxHEvzSPpgOvX31cy21wbOZY+M2B9Pd9vOlBtOB9 OQzhuG32SZ7jpX0RLfWQ9r7xJsZXVyMAawzmEumcKGokiZor+H+Vb1II5tEN9UJmXZD1 9wGg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.239.225 with SMTP id vv1mr20623111wjc.63.1374520667713; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:17:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.90.16 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:17:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:17:47 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Ernie Dainow Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0149338422b6df04e21e88e7 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 19:17:51 -0000 --089e0149338422b6df04e21e88e7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Any other opinions on this? Ning should be able to narrow down his use of ten minutes based on the feedback if there's obvious consensus. Ning, can you chip this down into a plan that will fit in the time we have for face-to-face meeting? -MSK On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:32 AM, Ernie Dainow wrote: > On another thread there was support for including > as the basic search. This would > provide search functionality equivalent to a number of existing whois > servers. Based on this, the following requirements would be met. > > #2 What should be the search function? > 1) What query types should be searchable > yes Domain? > Handle? > yes Name? > Status? > Others? > yes Nameserver? > Handle? > yes Name? > IP? > Others? > yes Entity? > ID? > yes Name? > Email? > Adr? > Others? > no IP? > Handle? > StartAddress? > Name? > Others? > no AS? > Handle? > StartAutnum? > Name? > Others? > > 2) What kind of search functions should be considered? > yes Wildcard? > single character match, > yes multiple characters match, > specific number of characters match > Boolean? (and, or, not) > Page? > Order by? (Date, Name) > > 2) What path segments should be used for search? > yes Option1: domains/?name=exampl*.com by > hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02 > Option2: search/?domain=exampl*.com by > zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00 > Option3: domains/?name=exampl*.com&page=3&orderby=name > > 3) What response format should be used for search? > Search level? > yes Multiple Results? > Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Number) > Oder by? > > 4) Others? > yes I18N consideration > yes Security consideration (Privacy Protection) > Anything else? > > #3 How should we document the search function? > Option1: one separated search document which covers all the issues of > search > Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP documents > yes Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related RDAP > documents > future Drafting one separate search document to cover advanced search > > > -Ernie > > > > On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Ning Kong wrote: > >> >> Hi folks, >> >> I try to list all related open questions on the search functions through >> this new thread. Any comments are appreciated! >> >> #1 Why should we consider the search function? >> 1) Optional search function described by the ICANN AGB >> 2) ICANN WSWG (Whois Survey Working Group) Survey Results >> (Requirement 5 for search) >> Note1: the final report of this survey is not published, but >> the results can be accessed in the link of >> https://community.icann.org/display/WSDT/WSWG+Survey+Results >> Note2: According to the results, over 81% respondents >> support the search function of domain name, over 53% respondents indicated >> positive interest in the search function of others (over 31% for >> NameServers, over 32% for Contact Name, over 34% for Contact Email). >> >> #2 What should be the search function? >> 1) What query types should be searchable >> Domain? >> Handle? >> Name? >> Status? >> Others? >> Nameserver? >> Handle? >> Name? >> IP? >> Others? >> Entity? >> ID? >> Name? >> Email? >> Adr? >> Others? >> IP? >> Handle? >> StartAddress? >> Name? >> Others? >> AS? >> Handle? >> StartAutnum? >> Name? >> Others? >> >> 2) What kind of search functions should be considered? >> Wildcard? (single character match, multiple characters >> match, specific number of characters match) >> Boolean? (and, or, not) >> Page? >> Order by? (Date, Name) >> >> 2) What path segments should be used for search? >> Option1: domains/?name=exampl*.com by >> hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02 >> Option2: search/?domain=exampl*.com by >> zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00 >> Option3: domains/?name=exampl*.com&page=3&orderby=name >> >> 3) What response format should be used for search? >> Search level ? >> Multiple Results ? >> Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Number) >> Oder by ? >> >> 4) Others? >> I18N consideration >> Security consideration (Privacy Protection) >> Anything else? >> >> #3 How should we document the search function? >> Option1: one separated search document which covers all the >> issues of search >> Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP >> documents (Query, Response, others?) >> Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related RDAP >> documents (Query, Response, others?), drafting one separated search >> document to cover the advanced search function >> >> #4 Other Open Questions >> 1) How to clearly define the basic search function and the >> advanced one? >> 2) Need we to consider the search function across different RDAP >> servers? (Search + Redirect ?) >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> Ning >> >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > --089e0149338422b6df04e21e88e7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Any other opinions on this?=A0 Ning should be able to= narrow down his use of ten minutes based on the feedback if there's ob= vious consensus.

Ning, can you chip this down into a plan= that will fit in the time we have for face-to-face meeting?

-MSK


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:32 AM, Ernie Dainow = <edainow@afili= as.info> wrote:
On another thread ther= e was support for including <draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search> as = the basic search. This would provide search functionality equivalent to a n= umber of existing whois servers. Based on this, the following requirements = would be met.=A0

#2 =A0What should be the search function?
1) =A0What query types should be = searchable
yes Domain?
Handle?
yes Name?
Status?
Others?
yes Nameserver?
Handle?
yes Name?
IP?
Others?
yes Entity?
ID?
yes Name?
Email?
Adr?
Others?
no IP?
Handle?
StartAddress?
Name?
Others?
no AS?
Handle?
= StartAutnum?
Name?
Others?

<= /div>
2) =A0What kind of s= earch functions should be considered?
yes Wildcard?=A0
single character match,= =A0
yes multiple ch= aracters match,=A0
specific number of characters match
= Boolean? (and, or, not)
Page?
Order by= ? (Date, Name)

2) =A0What= path segments should be used for search?
yes Option1: =A0 domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com = =A0 =A0 =A0 by hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option2: = =A0 search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com =A0 =A0 =A0 by zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-se= arch-00
Option3: = =A0 domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&page=3D3&orderby=3Dname

3) =A0What= response format should be used for search?
Search level?
yes Multiple Results?
Page ? (Total Page Numbe= r, Current Page Number)
Oder by?

4) =A0Others?
yes I18N considerat= ion
yes Security con= sideration (Privacy Protection)
Anything else?

#3 =A0How should we document the search function?
=
Option1: one separated se= arch document which covers all the issues of search
Option2: Merging all the search function = into all related RDAP documents
yes Option3: Merging= the basic search function into all related RDAP documents
future Drafting one separate search document to cover advanced= search


-Ernie



On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Ning Kong &l= t;nkong@cnnic.cn>= ; wrote:

Hi folks,

I try to list all related open questions on the search functions through th= is new thread. Any comments are appreciated!

#1 =A0Why should we consider the search function?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1) =A0Optional search function described by the ICANN AGB =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) =A0ICANN WSWG (Whois Survey Working Group) Survey Result= s (Requirement 5 for search)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Note1: the final report of this survey is not pu= blished, but the results can be accessed in the link of htt= ps://community.icann.org/display/WSDT/WSWG+Survey+Results
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Note2: According to the results, over 81% respon= dents support the search function of domain name, over 53% respondents indi= cated positive interest in the search function of others (over 31% for Name= Servers, over 32% for Contact Name, over 34% for Contact Email).

#2 =A0What should be the search function?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1) =A0What query types should be searchable
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Domain?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Handle?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Status?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Nameserver?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Handle?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 IP?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Entity?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ID?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Email?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Adr?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 IP?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Handle?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 StartAddress?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 AS?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Handle?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 StartAutnum?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Name?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Others?

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) =A0What kind of search functions should be considered? =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Wildcard? (single character match, multiple= characters match, specific number of characters match)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Boolean? (and, or, not)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Page?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Order by? (Date, Name)

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) =A0What path segments should be used for search?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option1: =A0 domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com = =A0 =A0 =A0by hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option2: =A0 search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com = =A0 =A0 =A0by zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option3: =A0 domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&am= p;page=3D3&orderby=3Dname

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 3) =A0What response format should be used for search?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Search level ?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Multiple Results ?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Num= ber)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Oder by ?

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 4) =A0Others?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 I18N consideration
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Security consideration (Privacy Protection)=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Anything else?

#3 =A0How should we document the search function?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option1: =A0one separated search document which covers all = the issues of search
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option2: =A0Merging all the search function into all relate= d RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?)
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Option3: =A0Merging the basic search function into all rela= ted RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?), drafting one separated searc= h document to cover the advanced search function

#4 =A0Other Open Questions
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1) =A0How to clearly define the basic search function and t= he advanced one?
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 2) =A0Need we to consider the search function across differ= ent RDAP servers? (Search + Redirect ?)



Cheers,
Ning

_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds


_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds


--089e0149338422b6df04e21e88e7-- From jyee@afilias.info Mon Jul 22 15:17:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CDB21E8084 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:17:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hovsLqMCGRE9 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CB921E805F for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V1OQA-0003QE-4s for weirds@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 22:17:34 +0000 Received: from mail-wi0-f178.google.com ([209.85.212.178]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V1OQA-000491-4R for weirds@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 22:17:34 +0000 Received: by mail-wi0-f178.google.com with SMTP id k10so2447622wiv.11 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=8DQYBVdakh4Edu9GVV+sRFf9yelTIUYeu4g/7ic+0cI=; b=Q32bkZzgO5nj0haF2jsH0upTSHipCZaeDNWYXFvWZwdErg7lQl8QRUjknmygm+orCq QuSeQ3cNEHYREz65uzQDKKg5allCORnDFKo0GDvjVfpyY2pjkZF2wRg2TvuPjYB7JCYd ndVGJ2SqzcYUEhcaGx8SitXiVIfaK2ujuuQdI6T2ZMHpIfsEnYp+2sqaS79r6/W4BscV MBt2ODc1RhwdjL8Y+5iGs7V3j+2CCpD+CRUwXffH1KFarQ3g0OqnQM0KMy9eCUNGuvj6 ZSz5s+PmP0DlZ2xFwJAtFUCxHyaZMfQn/PCBX/aZ9jHdUBQO0gFFQWf9ISp16xccW1ga xILA== X-Received: by 10.180.75.80 with SMTP id a16mr14488919wiw.3.1374531448364; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.75.80 with SMTP id a16mr14488914wiw.3.1374531448257; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.217.54.129 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2013 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> References: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 18:17:28 -0400 Message-ID: From: Joseph Yee To: Ning Kong Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkLW8AkBzAv+if8Q3QKW+yOhPBqczQ9GzYcRYWNWpYc+1a3jh/TIYnjfmAXcqLZa7S3EJaNsSS4/JocdSl27Et95wVDvhdWMEnEiHPNAfG1EZzhcFxaZp3P31oMAx+WtVVA6OUS Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 22:17:41 -0000 please see inline On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Ning Kong wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I try to list all related open questions on the search functions through this new thread. Any comments are appreciated! > > #1 Why should we consider the search function? [snip] > > #2 What should be the search function? > 1) What query types should be searchable [snip] What should be searchable is more driven by users & providers, IMHO. If possible, just define a proper general naming convention should do, then it's just matter of whether server support the term or not. > > 2) What kind of search functions should be considered? > Wildcard? (single character match, multiple characters match, specific number of characters match) > Boolean? (and, or, not) > Page? > Order by? (Date, Name) > > 2) What path segments should be used for search? > Option1: domains/?name=exampl*.com by hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02 > Option2: search/?domain=exampl*.com by zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00 > Option3: domains/?name=exampl*.com&page=3&orderby=name Answer both questions above here. Seems like there's a preference of query string over path, and I think it's fine, it doesn't matter much. I'm concern of trying to present complex search in query string format. The mix of what symbol characters may stored, rdap response, query string's handling on percent encode and unreserved could give developers and users enough headaches. That being said, boolean, page and order are MAYBE to consider. > > 3) What response format should be used for search? > Search level ? > Multiple Results ? > Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Number) > Oder by ? > > 4) Others? > I18N consideration > Security consideration (Privacy Protection) > Anything else? yes and yes. > > #3 How should we document the search function? > Option1: one separated search document which covers all the issues of search > Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?) > Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?), drafting one separated search document to cover the advanced search function > Leaning to option 3, but only if we found good way to separate/extend basic to advance. > #4 Other Open Questions > 1) How to clearly define the basic search function and the advanced one? > 2) Need we to consider the search function across different RDAP servers? (Search + Redirect ?) > If you mean wildcard on the TLD part, I personally would prefer smarter client. Don't expect all can be done under one long query string. Best Joseph > > > Cheers, > Ning > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From superuser@gmail.com Tue Jul 23 09:29:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0A311E82E7 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.403 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.403 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.196, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ATebkD2PC7eH for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22c.google.com (mail-wg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB9F11E82DF for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id l18so2383803wgh.35 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:29:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=F3HR1H3rN8BdcXNZJ6M2xWkfZIVMkmi+K/ISlz0Fmsw=; b=MetEsQwq5pEPUxRvaXOVv+TxtH9tkeQ6ykV+sqBXoVdap7nW9owREYP1+HhStVpMGJ XRdvplMznefIvvE8d72TjXOi0oFBB7Bk9UjWef+emYilIHv7EnpkFL34H5lgVkW75lYS K9//lF6nrl4UlbqOfaAcsEW2XUX642PrCU6eLJ9EAFT8dzpn6ozeIJO/fnbEulCyyaaP VAumXiawM2XVB7Bj7SNqtX+UQLlSJnRZz4n3CxYWgqrLO51ZSKbmv2K58t+AGuCf7SR6 XKs3xxMGCcuxW3e6YAI2VkwJofO6kxJebaB3JG5PB4CLOSFUOq/InyFyTBYUtwEVOx6u k7SQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.20.228 with SMTP id q4mr9426173wie.60.1374596959145; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.125.36 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:29:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 09:29:19 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Ernie Dainow Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d042184857597cb04e2304b95 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:29:21 -0000 --f46d042184857597cb04e2304b95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Any other opinions on this? Ning should be able to narrow down his use of > ten minutes based on the feedback if there's obvious consensus. > > Ning, can you chip this down into a plan that will fit in the time we have > for face-to-face meeting? > > There have only been a handful of replies, but it does seem like we're trending toward having the truly basic search option added to rdap-query and json-response. Is there anyone that feels differently, or should the authors of those documents proceed in that direction? And if we do that, what's left for the search timeslot in Berlin? -MSK --f46d042184857597cb04e2304b95 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 12:17 PM, Murray S. Kucherawy <= superuser@gmail.com> wrote:
Any other opinions on = this?=A0 Ning should be able to narrow down his use of ten minutes based on= the feedback if there's obvious consensus.

Ning, can you chip this down into a plan that will fit in th= e time we have for face-to-face meeting?


There have o= nly been a handful of replies, but it does seem like we're trending tow= ard having the truly basic search option added to rdap-query and json-respo= nse.

Is there anyone that feels differently, or should the author= s of those documents proceed in that direction?

And if we= do that, what's left for the search timeslot in Berlin?

-MSK
--f46d042184857597cb04e2304b95-- From johnl@iecc.com Tue Jul 23 10:37:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECEF211E830B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:37:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.333 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.333 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.866, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j0aSkSS35qpn for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE2B11E82AC for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 83864 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2013 17:37:24 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2013 17:37:24 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51eebf54.xn--hew.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=x8VAHug2DxacQWDBnOvY0bnLIg7n1CxSwZA7Z/Do4Tc=; b=Fi0TC7Xb/jkLhiXuX5Qe3x5h24BY0v+9RTSSEeG7UfSzmsyGRJqQksh+qlurv4tTcM98IOxui4rFo+WNO8ytplCSfRbOd4EN0/AKvioziNTtvPSkCZT55+GLS0DDCzaib9z4pVljmzj+Nvy6SkDtY7xgatkSOWTJu3gcbt9Exm4LMKBOIFcUrRa3OiVejwjmhboMCsNDRgYuXeIUlfaww94fXXiCkPCXjJxoU2D4AEmTUXfYSHR3GFMjPRU5Wg5A DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51eebf54.xn--hew.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=x8VAHug2DxacQWDBnOvY0bnLIg7n1CxSwZA7Z/Do4Tc=; b=n7kQnRMDRC9ugYOPvdFrr4+lfxu+coXIsiF55YJF0Ao2/TRb4JU31WwB3gCrVqi6I13LBaSEdWqVUZm6Aq7toJhYq5Eqo4Quyb/rTt2PxPCk4vUpP2oQHEmbKSGb9c12OtIMH8dw8is5Olctv+/FL9mUnu7oUwEb7Y38rHk8zKfzDTD1U+qbUAkbswz7mk6gqau439bTGihjlZPDKfqoiyqV0eW9QhU1V1mn9oC6SqBIMK50qQVX13sj20Rl28aQ Date: 23 Jul 2013 17:37:02 -0000 Message-ID: <20130723173702.72501.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:37:32 -0000 >There have only been a handful of replies, but it does seem like we're >trending toward having the truly basic search option added to rdap-query >and json-response. > >Is there anyone that feels differently, or should the authors of those >documents proceed in that direction? > >And if we do that, what's left for the search timeslot in Berlin? Check that we agree on what the responses should be? * If there are more answers than a server is willing to return in one group, is it worth specifying a way to ask for more, i.e., are there any existing WHOIS servers that will do that? * What are the possible answers: all the matches, some of the matches, no matches, invalid patern (wildcard in the middle, for example), anything else? R's, John From michael@mwyoung.ca Tue Jul 23 11:18:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AA6C11E8132 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:18:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0IgAtt+F57NU for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qe0-f52.google.com (mail-qe0-f52.google.com [209.85.128.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4632911E8304 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qe0-f52.google.com with SMTP id i11so4716795qej.11 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:18:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=R+dPHSGjVerEQz8FF+0mDMDZc9kDzvZcsid+q+HSXDA=; b=O0h2t/XMDDDlfFMEBtECffa7QTqwJ5kSUEiLVst4ZUBAM4uOBzyV33MhfDVxAKNfc6 5TxEHPnnjK0Vu+ZEQOzSmEV105ZWKETgYhkt9P57fxp9igEOPcawVkSr+ILV8W4pxVyN j66oLsIgy9bWvuK3OstqqpFg1Rqr9xHnRs6j6UEUCKpfsEop39phxuUsCYcETXn1Ekq2 nKqMsDIhGhbOO31wZ8e39M4+QGgXWxx2BHRap7iDuUzGQVQNGmKqQ6+fSCEQvmQYaBKr ZG7QSw2mYJ/sqGzoI8OPY/nigPw5Ty5g8ADlluP0mxbZrKI1WKwqGjy2zwvUFV0SMO2A TTRQ== X-Received: by 10.224.171.132 with SMTP id h4mr41012089qaz.98.1374603515439; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.1.44] (CPE74d02b4255c8-CM78cd8ece2635.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [173.32.3.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id t5sm11122148qae.9.2013.07.23.11.18.33 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D434DEE5-2C60-4DA8-9428-E4FBE5048786" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: MICHAEL YOUNG In-Reply-To: <20130723173702.72501.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:18:32 -0400 Message-Id: <95B25AFF-7ED6-4365-9742-2D257FD3C85A@mwyoung.ca> References: <20130723173702.72501.qmail@joyce.lan> To: "John Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlhEENqhQGAvMqm3N9Y/h1vpIRc4VcVvnidSgTT1y46tp8zIShQX2yy6n0RXcyOtsio5lI5 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:18:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D434DEE5-2C60-4DA8-9428-E4FBE5048786 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't really see the point in supporting search if you aren't willing = to provision a full answer. Of course no one wants to answer a 50,000 match query, on a public = service, in a single response. I think the answer lies in being able to = set the limit of the response via server policy, BUT you should have a = marker that allows you to pick up where the last response left off to = allow you to ask for the next group. So I ask for 50,000 and get back = 100 matches with an identifier the server will recognize if I submit it = with my next query, AND that gets me the next 100 matches, and so forth = and so on. The server can apply rate-limiting mechanisms against that = methodology, such as how often I can query, response size, etc. -Michael On 2013-07-23, at 1:37 PM, "John Levine" wrote: >> There have only been a handful of replies, but it does seem like = we're >> trending toward having the truly basic search option added to = rdap-query >> and json-response. >>=20 >> Is there anyone that feels differently, or should the authors of = those >> documents proceed in that direction? >>=20 >> And if we do that, what's left for the search timeslot in Berlin? >=20 > Check that we agree on what the responses should be? >=20 > * If there are more answers than a server is willing to return in one > group, is it worth specifying a way to ask for more, i.e., are there > any existing WHOIS servers that will do that? >=20 > * What are the possible answers: all the matches, some of the matches, = no > matches, invalid patern (wildcard in the middle, for example), > anything else? >=20 > R's, > John > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds MICHAEL YOUNG michael@mwyoung.ca --Apple-Mail=_D434DEE5-2C60-4DA8-9428-E4FBE5048786 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
There have only been a handful of replies, but it does = seem like we're
trending toward having the truly basic search option = added to rdap-query
and json-response.

Is there anyone that = feels differently, or should the authors of those
documents proceed = in that direction?

And if we do that, what's left for the search = timeslot in Berlin?

Check that we agree on what the = responses should be?

* If there are more answers than a server is = willing to return in one
group, is it worth specifying a way to ask = for more, i.e., are there
any existing WHOIS servers that will do = that?

* What are the possible answers: all the matches, some of = the matches, no
matches, invalid patern (wildcard in the middle, for = example),
anything = else?

R's,
John
_____________________________________________= __
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds




MICHAEL = YOUNG




= --Apple-Mail=_D434DEE5-2C60-4DA8-9428-E4FBE5048786-- From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 23 11:55:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E17C11E8371 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:55:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9a+I8ddc43sV for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC74011E830D for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 67EC716518B; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:54:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2333165182; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:54:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.19) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:54:47 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH04.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.19]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:54:47 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] search for A-labels Thread-Index: AQHOhu1FE8H/BnlA/0KACYvOp+AO4ZlxEUQAgAAHQoCAAYXOgA== Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:54:45 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20130722153933.60853.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8D3182A3A02A614C946322B4CF048CFE@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] search for A-labels X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:55:27 -0000 On 7/22/13 11:39 AM, "John Levine" wrote: >>The following on p.5 seems unnecessarily restrictive: >>Clients SHOULD NOT submit search requests with partial matching for DNS >>A-labels. >> ... > >>A partial A-label can't necessarily be decoded into a partial U-label. >>We have the SHOULD NOT there because the >>results may be unpredictable. > >But the names they match will be full A-labels. I have to agree with >Ernie (for once), this seems like a restriction that forbids some >useful scenarios, and doesn't fix anything. If you return the query >string in the result and can't decode it, then just don't decode it. > >If there are A-labels in the database that aren't actually encoded >U-labels, that's a different problem. The point Scott is trying to make, I think, is that we are attempting to define how two pieces of software interoperate and that unpredictable results are likely in this case. At the very least we should point out that the results will be unpredictable or at-best based on partial match semantics of ASCII only. -andy From andy@arin.net Tue Jul 23 12:01:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5CCB11E838B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:01:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-4.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GLFo-jNdeyAk for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C6E11E83A0 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:00:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 9F48D165194; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5FB165190; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:00:37 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.18]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:00:37 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Ernie Dainow Thread-Topic: [weirds] search Unicode partial match Thread-Index: AQHOhvIdsZ9zCZXE402z3HrMjBzg/plyn+yA Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 19:00:36 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [10.1.1.56] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE1449D226D40andyarinnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] search Unicode partial match X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 19:01:03 -0000 --_000_CE1449D226D40andyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Ernie Dainow > Date: Monday, July 22, 2013 11:42 AM To: Andrew Newton > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [weirds] search Unicode partial match The following is unnecessarily restrictive and adds a lot of checking on th= e client. p.3 Clients MUST NOT issue a partial match search of Unicode characters whe= re a Unicode character may be legally combined with another ... The onus should be on the server to return no results. I think I agree. That should be a lower-cased should not. :) Guidelines for server side partial matching refer to [RFC5892] and [I-D.iet= f-precis-nickname]. These seem to be overkill for search, as they describe = processing to determine whether an internationalized name is valid or not. = Since search is not registration, it is only important to determine whether= names exist or not. While it is useful to return an error on a search when= the name is invalid, this requires a lot of extra checking and should be o= ptional. I'm good with this as long as it is spelled out that when clients send non-= sense the results may be unpredictable. I don't know if this will be adequa= te for the IETF I18N experts, but the least we can do is ask. It would be more consistent to refer to [RFC5891] to specify the match proc= essing, as in 3.3 of draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query: p.5 If the client sends the server an IDN in U-label format, servers that support IDNs MUST convert the IDN into A-label format and perform IDNA processing as specified in RFC 5891. RFC 5891 allows checking for validity to be optional: p.11 This test may be omitted in special circumstances ... However, applying the test is likely to give much better information about the reason for a lookup failure I don't think 3.3 of draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query should be a MUST. If the = server stores IDN domain names as U-labels, this seems like a lot of unnece= ssary complication and overhead to convert to A-label. A server should be a= ble to just lookup the U-label directly. I suspect you are right but need to think about this. Thanks for the feedback, Ernie. -andy --_000_CE1449D226D40andyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Ernie Dainow <edainow@afilias.info>
Date: Monday, July 22, 2013 11:42 A= M
To: Andrew Newton <andy@arin.net>
Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" <= weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [weirds] search Unicod= e partial match

The following is unnecessarily restrictive and adds a lot of checking = on the client.
p.3 Clients MUST NOT issue a partial match search of Unicode character= s where a Unicode character may be legally combined with another ...

The onus should be on the server to return no results.

I think I agree. That should be a lower-cased should not. :)

Guidelines for server side partial matching refer to [RFC5892] and [I-= D.ietf-precis-nickname]. These seem to be overkill for search, as they desc= ribe processing to determine whether an internationalized name is valid or = not. Since search is not registration, it is only important to determine whether names exist or not. While it is = useful to return an error on a search when the name is invalid, this requir= es a lot of extra checking and should be optional.

I'm good with this as long as it is spelled out that when clients send= non-sense the results may be unpredictable. I don't know if this will be a= dequate for the IETF I18N experts, but the least we can do is ask.

It would be more consistent to refer to [RFC5891] to specify the match= processing, as in 3.3 of draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query:
p.5 If the client sends the server an IDN in U-label format, servers t= hat
   support IDNs MUST convert the IDN into A-label format and= perform
   IDNA processing as specified in RFC 5891.

RFC 5891 allows checking for validity to be optional:
p.11
   This test may be omitted in special circumstances ... &nb= sp;
   However, applying the test is likely to give
   much better information about the reason for a lookup fai= lure

I don't think 3.3 of draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query should be a MUST. If= the server stores IDN domain names as U-labels, this seems like a lot of u= nnecessary complication and overhead to convert to A-label. A server should= be able to just lookup the U-label directly.

I suspect you are right but need to think about this.

Thanks for the feedback, Ernie.

-andy
--_000_CE1449D226D40andyarinnet_-- From johnl@taugh.com Tue Jul 23 13:12:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8220F11E838F for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:12:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sSM5ynIzPKk9 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131BB11E811E for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 66230 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2013 20:12:54 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=102b5.51eee3c6.k1307; bh=rktOb3Z0vKdEHVGT4EZay9N4SCpFkyQNFnx4y9vhREw=; b=EZAFHXxJ8cLPYSikv2hFtOyon1daBSQeoStZwOtn9y9GNAP7AX5xdOULMnsLTloOk/ULe5+wWtVAIi5GnlXjBu+Bi3B8z+Xtt1MjMUDlpAo3LdGshhukhz8Nh4LTpkZ1yT0fAr9kPo5lX+LdX/b95YglvC+H/vXKVHeNN/3XAjWxJvvyy6P4hEesMbRQk+eFTx2Y3vTxmY+VwcuAtWaKgzC/fcstFeUuSozCJLdw9jBkgp7YXz3LbJ5jscJKt2JO DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=102b5.51eee3c6.k1307; bh=rktOb3Z0vKdEHVGT4EZay9N4SCpFkyQNFnx4y9vhREw=; b=fR39M0ojmGooz3e8tIsY5/Tog0KmNBI1AvTHHQMnqKwXgOaSkAj6NDk74KUB+1DshXA4hruUlbCs0OlpQpvC67qp4FJPYRkQapDNyG4z4jmlvL/eKgLyJy3w+drwCLn5ovYvebHGvKOeV/YVpOZYmAJhnh2HfHC6R6UDk8fYEt7YoBiGwenQPWaZdbgHjV8nqEntt68xfHso6q1H+LmOIWODKe87SHZHlBeb0/yeJgPw7ilHT9bBeyWdPxPZ1bAm Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 23 Jul 2013 20:12:32 -0000 Date: 23 Jul 2013 16:12:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [weirds] search for A-labels X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 20:12:56 -0000 > The point Scott is trying to make, I think, is that we are attempting to > define how two pieces of software interoperate and that unpredictable > results are likely in this case. At the very least we should point out > that the results will be unpredictable or at-best based on partial match > semantics of ASCII only. Hmmn. If you look for ab* you can't tell whether that's an ASCII pattern or a U-label pattern. If you look for xn--ab* it's definitely an A-label pattern. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From johnl@taugh.com Tue Jul 23 13:43:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6319C11E8136 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:43:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gkMO4xiS5gFT for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF9A311E8100 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 77545 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2013 20:43:22 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=12ee8.51eeeaea.k1307; bh=D3pIH+ZPPGnxgq2BzT9TQc0pJUKUH70dDX3hjHRN7o4=; b=woXh27FRDWs8Ga/WI/LPp+7GwniLxEmk8twV8fl/R1IrOLstv74RAPyK3uKli3bBYXl+9Fcp1JZJoJnpxUSS5R7Dir47QDOXcR2df/oweWNtCerDO6Wn0Cg5zzW/C55DQqOBO+m14NbXhVldjo3Ax9yHE/qT2wL0MACRI2KRajTvwUZLEH39ZeAripfUSZHrhP8CCAi6PJlVEiIjKQ755nukMmC6FA/rtffot2MN2ms3JurWyQNxtrPFiVCGGjW6 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=12ee8.51eeeaea.k1307; bh=D3pIH+ZPPGnxgq2BzT9TQc0pJUKUH70dDX3hjHRN7o4=; b=kezP1J3Rdgp+BvwmpfuxLLfAWhhCt2NbT+ByK9v2b0vQzOQFBKQ+qbutJIi5Pux+iAfOrn5pQMDotboPx5gkn+Z29R1ToOPnhRWCOfxN/CSU7JqRz9361CvKJnZxU6hsn0NqX8Zdlp5QvJynfVXCWwVGyvLk/v0VkLOpPbWas3zAo/GrlHhIyLZq4fooFuRsp7rXdqX2eqiDvYSGF4Jz++9dyDGy0jX+6cpl/c1SQdFeMV/juq9nUrzTMKUJePTW Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 23 Jul 2013 20:43:00 -0000 Date: 23 Jul 2013 16:43:21 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 20:43:26 -0000 > I don't really see the point in supporting search if you aren't willing to > provision a full answer. > > Of course no one wants to answer a 50,000 match query, on a public service, > in a single response. I think the answer lies in being able to set the limit > of the response via server policy, BUT you should have a marker that allows > you to pick up where the last response left off to allow you to ask for the > next group. So I ask for 50,000 and get back 100 matches with an identifier > the server will recognize if I submit it with my next query, AND that gets me > the next 100 matches, and so forth and so on. The server can apply > rate-limiting mechanisms against that methodology, such as how often I can > query, response size, etc. No TLD offers anything like that in their existing WHOIS service, and most go to considerable effort to prevent bulk queries. What leads you to believe they would provide extra features to make data mining their RDAP servers easier? Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Tue Jul 23 14:11:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B842C11E8386 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:11:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.595, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I489m3EitHcM for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (ow5p.x.rootbsd.net [208.79.81.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE8C811E8159 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:11:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (nat-08-mht.dyndns.com [216.146.45.247]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F1D4E8A031 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 21:11:00 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:10:56 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20130723211056.GA5470@mx1.yitter.info> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 21:11:09 -0000 On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 04:43:21PM -0400, John R Levine wrote: > No TLD offers anything like that in their existing WHOIS service, > and most go to considerable effort to prevent bulk queries. What > leads you to believe they would provide extra features to make data > mining their RDAP servers easier? That many do all have a bulk whois service, and since RDAP can do authentication they could then do the bulk whois using the same protocol? It's not only WHOIS that we're replacing. If it were, why do the work? A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From michael@mwyoung.ca Tue Jul 23 14:48:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A2E11E838F for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:48:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MV4mXMzAcPXO for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:48:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qe0-f54.google.com (mail-qe0-f54.google.com [209.85.128.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08C311E8396 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qe0-f54.google.com with SMTP id 1so1632571qee.27 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:48:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=K3Gt2VDUKp4aTW1DKMda+JFZiRMpAolcJSrCYeG+7ZE=; b=WcYAvhJsuIhcrFZfUg5gDdwQTyWeBsN+JQq7FfuGSLdyEMttB+CrAjm0HcPy9auS83 MEPLEUcdyqnEEdAMPBNnvSbObZJHaaqWswOo1uWLKsnNo7o0VbRBtTe+mQBGLwleAoVi 3i1Wdi0zZYn9c3flATXvecojytn2OnxQVUtBSz6hErB57cjCHJ/Cn6vmoOQGdJkrmS0a lJQ6A4BdQ/fdoyUtKbQku072dEB5pBdKW7t5iVhFr3EQglH8U7jt5MbMb2Tils9ORGUE cfkE2qiCcRrg6HXwVdjg1Wu46zTvDCrHKAExTRQ10lMIIaj4FwAHGC5NMTFMRp2GJJRF 6mYQ== X-Received: by 10.49.82.115 with SMTP id h19mr40835930qey.62.1374616099125; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:48:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.1.44] (CPE74d02b4255c8-CM78cd8ece2635.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [173.32.3.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id y4sm49908918qai.5.2013.07.23.14.48.17 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Jul 2013 14:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_246BB997-875B-4CE6-B986-8C1ECC3A1F7D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: MICHAEL YOUNG In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:48:15 -0400 Message-Id: <4720C967-B72E-4D0E-B209-2344416F99E1@mwyoung.ca> References: To: "John R Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkcMYyiqMm5eScyPpG1Nrw7gsP8uZ0Wi/19mQ1eLqXoH9iVKnY63QCyII5xYCxW16Dj1CI9 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 21:48:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_246BB997-875B-4CE6-B986-8C1ECC3A1F7D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi John, I see Andrew made this point as well, this is about putting the = capability and therefore the choice in place, some TLDs absolutely offer = this type of service now and many of the NTLDs have stated they will in = their applications.=20 I agree some won't want to offer this type of functionality, that's why = I said this has to be determined by server policy, but that a = standardized way of offering it is important for those who do. Rate-limiting, authenticated users only being allowed to use the added = search functionality, or just not offering the service (server policy) = are all ways of controlling potential data mining,...... =20 -Michael On 2013-07-23, at 4:43 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: >> I don't really see the point in supporting search if you aren't = willing to provision a full answer. >> Of course no one wants to answer a 50,000 match query, on a public = service, in a single response. I think the answer lies in being able to = set the limit of the response via server policy, BUT you should have a = marker that allows you to pick up where the last response left off to = allow you to ask for the next group. So I ask for 50,000 and get back = 100 matches with an identifier the server will recognize if I submit it = with my next query, AND that gets me the next 100 matches, and so forth = and so on. The server can apply rate-limiting mechanisms against that = methodology, such as how often I can query, response size, etc. >=20 > No TLD offers anything like that in their existing WHOIS service, and = most go to considerable effort to prevent bulk queries. What leads you = to believe they would provide extra features to make data mining their = RDAP servers easier? >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for = Dummies", > Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. = http://jl.ly > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds MICHAEL YOUNG michael@mwyoung.ca --Apple-Mail=_246BB997-875B-4CE6-B986-8C1ECC3A1F7D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

I don't really see the point in supporting search if you = aren't willing to provision a full answer.
Of course no one wants to = answer a 50,000 match query, on a public service, in a single response. =  I think the answer lies in being able to set the limit of the = response via server policy, BUT you should have a marker that allows you = to pick up where the last response left off to allow you to ask for the = next group.  So I ask for 50,000 and get back 100 matches with an = identifier the server will recognize if I submit it with my next query, = AND that gets me the next 100 matches, and so forth and so on.  The = server can apply rate-limiting mechanisms against that methodology, such = as how often I can query, response size, etc.

No TLD = offers anything like that in their existing WHOIS service, and most go = to considerable effort to prevent bulk queries.  What leads you to = believe they would provide extra features to make data mining their RDAP = servers easier?

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator = of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before = reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
________________________________= _______________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/weirds




MICHAEL = YOUNG




= --Apple-Mail=_246BB997-875B-4CE6-B986-8C1ECC3A1F7D-- From johnl@taugh.com Tue Jul 23 15:04:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7896D11E811B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:04:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c135CJthB5Pi for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A0711E80C5 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 10986 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2013 22:04:19 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=2ae9.51eefde3.k1307; bh=r6BhzNKrYzHGw/8kfSa1pKQmBQbvVlfVREbVtdZZHRk=; b=hpjwfVF7vBaacqbH09zMVOGqKpaR2Z8oISxabNTPtZQ8IHQEGglNABksNTbHnBenyXiG98/rlKqyzytcshHh9aGjV7dvQF8LYgRhA391DSMmidJj/cnVBsigvFmbqOsS6XeAaSA9SW5Z6eL4KYcUZFgrNu4YmFjlMpNLL2Ib5Ngyew6O/8g92VkHmUvIXHFq+8QZeLjJpeTMEKjqC2MltYKNT0hL1m6Xb9sQi4cywqeid2X1+SZosup2U0dYVM2m DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=2ae9.51eefde3.k1307; bh=r6BhzNKrYzHGw/8kfSa1pKQmBQbvVlfVREbVtdZZHRk=; b=sKoE/O+4yFmEq/sZYtqmcFyzZhlkUfw/TnvfD65M/J/tfnkatpekacunHT1FxnM3IIo3wOXU2mmF+bnXpwx5Rbx9A7oqkSOv4651WJ9NX4TR5mjtNw0gz5y91Mg4s80NulafCJCdNYjxT7O2ulhcAqjGr5dRqKK0Hbm19EPCCQgpQsm8hGxK/PzLPPmxP/NBxBrdqUc4ABwk/+t6j0aDzK4JDOBxxo3oKGBFbs2OPxcebzT/5XtbFXY3F4IdW11c Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 23 Jul 2013 22:03:57 -0000 Date: 23 Jul 2013 18:04:19 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "MICHAEL YOUNG" In-Reply-To: <4720C967-B72E-4D0E-B209-2344416F99E1@mwyoung.ca> References: <4720C967-B72E-4D0E-B209-2344416F99E1@mwyoung.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 22:04:23 -0000 > I agree some won't want to offer this type of functionality, that's why > I said this has to be determined by server policy, but that a > standardized way of offering it is important for those who do. Having read a lot of the applications and all of the existing gTLD agreements, I see no indication that any registry or any applicant will support data mining. On the contrary, they tend to say they will specifically forbid it. For example, I looked at one of the many similar applications from Donuts, number 1-1255-37010, which says: 2.6.3. Security and Stability Considerations Abuse of the Whois system through data mining is a concern as it can impact system performance and reduce the quality of service to legitimate users. The Whois system mitigates this type of abuse by detecting and limiting bulk query access from single sources. It does this in two ways: 1) by rate limiting queries by non-authorized parties; and 2) by ensuring all queries result in responses that do not include data sets representing significant portions of the registration database. In addition, the Whois web interface adds a simple challenge-response CAPCHA that requires a user to type in the characters displayed in image format. Both systems have blacklist functionality to provide a complete block to individual IPs or IP ranges. Can you point us at a specific registry or applicant that says they will support data mining of the kind you're describing? Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From johnl@iecc.com Tue Jul 23 15:17:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C6BA11E8160 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:16:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TCYr3RFgkmCI for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E02C411E815B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 16970 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2013 22:16:41 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2013 22:16:41 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51ef00c9.xn--i8sz2z.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=ujQBMi/vBT0rxbAjhakYSpOu2KwO5ulnOigYKwyPsks=; b=OYGA3VGAcc7gMOMLHbpl9gdCuQovJK305Zl2dhK4HgIFgUi3y/2ido2dgF4dHYOxY11+EcM406IOAfRIJ8+OjXux2dnBPkOyNCbue8SRMcvEeOMXFQcCwvdoFbQfxHK/IXJ+AsEuYj1jtMAO743MsTYdqRPdhyWmUiI6j+qm+5MCGeKLY3wIuywJop2LHsfSDN/Ew1+FfXcbRn7hXsrnIojvMTJVEm7csULhmpTB6uVHGuhBZmMkYZfuwc9jTxLp DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51ef00c9.xn--i8sz2z.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=ujQBMi/vBT0rxbAjhakYSpOu2KwO5ulnOigYKwyPsks=; b=VSLNKUYB1Q+b2xS9h+3iKYxVcTOpOV+hdIlQkt/U+qlQsQ+oGe8aU+mp8+kMsWB7MJnP6dBsD0zcL0blaDXaSlQCFOk2Ipkn7jn98UNkjEct5E6iP5UCMH3uaEyQds5jsuy+Iap+9LlFKddKedrHh7E598tpV6ihQ4L3eeG3WR3uoVVKSRqJvt5p8+F45iooZ/KNhdvUCYVys35UakyEOHlFnxDV0i+k7OpZIuk1cSfsZ/8MngzDiFwUnMcAquuO Date: 23 Jul 2013 22:16:19 -0000 Message-ID: <20130723221619.73211.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20130723211056.GA5470@mx1.yitter.info> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 22:17:04 -0000 >That many do all have a bulk whois service, and since RDAP can do >authentication they could then do the bulk whois using the same >protocol? It is my impression that to the extent it exists, it's like ZFA, with a password that the client uses to batch download a file. The new TLD application form mentions bulk WHOIS access, and the Verisign applications say they provide three files for download, of domains, nameservers, and registrars. Hence I'd want to hear from a registry that says that they will implement bulk RDAP before trying to invent a query protocol for it. What's the point otherwise? FWIW, I've talked to large registrars who've told me that although in theory they are supposed to provide bulk access, nobody's ever asked for it. R's, John From chris@ausregistry.com.au Tue Jul 23 15:20:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94FF211E815F for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:20:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dOkrMUEjnSnz for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx01.ausregistry.net.au (mx01.ausregistry.net.au [120.29.249.162]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05AED11E815B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 15:20:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from off-win2003-01.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au (HELO off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local) ([10.30.1.3]) by iron01.off08.stkildard.vic.ausregistry.com.au with ESMTP; 24 Jul 2013 08:20:14 +1000 Received: from off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) by off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local ([10.30.1.3]) with mapi; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 08:20:36 +1000 From: Chris Wright To: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 08:20:32 +1000 Thread-Topic: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP Thread-Index: Ac6H8mXxp7F9OjTZTK22JvH1fgKoWwAADpkg Message-ID: <8CEF048B9EC83748B1517DC64EA130FB771D8E9132@off-win2003-01.ausregistrygroup.local> References: <20130723211056.GA5470@mx1.yitter.info> <20130723221619.73211.qmail@joyce.lan> In-Reply-To: <20130723221619.73211.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU x-kse-antivirus-interceptor-info: scan successful x-kse-antivirus-info: Clean Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 22:20:48 -0000 Ill actually affirm the opposite for you John, we at AusRegistry (.au, a nu= mber of other ccTLDs, and 167 new gTLDs) will not be offering any sort of s= earch/bulk functionality, thus do not require these features. Thanks Chris -----Original Message----- From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= John Levine Sent: Wednesday, 24 July 2013 8:16 AM To: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP >That many do all have a bulk whois service, and since RDAP can do=20 >authentication they could then do the bulk whois using the same=20 >protocol? It is my impression that to the extent it exists, it's like ZFA, with a pas= sword that the client uses to batch download a file. The new TLD applicati= on form mentions bulk WHOIS access, and the Verisign applications say they = provide three files for download, of domains, nameservers, and registrars. Hence I'd want to hear from a registry that says that they will implement b= ulk RDAP before trying to invent a query protocol for it. What's the point otherwise? FWIW, I've talked to large registrars who've told me that although in theor= y they are supposed to provide bulk access, nobody's ever asked for it. R's, John _______________________________________________ weirds mailing list weirds@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Tue Jul 23 16:59:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A2611E818D for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:59:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.84 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.84 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rj148OdqM2th for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (ow5p.x.rootbsd.net [208.79.81.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A8B11E8192 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 16:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (c-75-69-155-67.hsd1.nh.comcast.net [75.69.155.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9D4148A031 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:58:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 19:58:52 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20130723235851.GB41776@mx1.yitter.info> References: <20130723211056.GA5470@mx1.yitter.info> <20130723221619.73211.qmail@joyce.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20130723221619.73211.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 23:59:03 -0000 On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 10:16:19PM -0000, John Levine wrote: > Hence I'd want to hear from a registry that says that they will > implement bulk RDAP before trying to invent a query protocol for it. > What's the point otherwise? I don't work there any more, but when I did work at a registry provider we would have dearly loved to have a real protocol for this, because the alternative was a major pain when we got these requests. Still, that doesn't respond to your need. A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From michael@mwyoung.ca Tue Jul 23 17:39:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C1311E8198 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:39:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id alXBktV6gd41 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qe0-f42.google.com (mail-qe0-f42.google.com [209.85.128.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 229EB11E816F for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qe0-f42.google.com with SMTP id s1so2276976qeb.15 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:39:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=Jz+G7eyzowMYrJa/2DG9nQeCRohW6XJ/4I+iMpAdfR8=; b=JWtUgmmROZPh/dbj3WbojVb9JNDshOEJogQ76yyOsYqydK7F0OnyCSfHF0JlReDQsK hzAArWnwlDwYt+QQU5hwGFBv0+Y60OOEfJ8G2GkVq1xO4Y5hx7ej9bZ+zCLwqxRGHDBZ UUjva1OIMYQkLkiwlXwFlve4OO7z3mHRyrr9AWiDqPHvZBYXc1raoXQ24hs0cr8Y407+ 0Urgr6rYwcnYssdffGDs9tve9bpZqPoiQEUja4Uzt2lrLTiRSzFZ+rB5ipG8JAQxkCth E0wqVhV3SJCnMVSwD0zyVpn8bY4koin3KtH5YJ/23IZEzE4r/YGSTEA3EYalr5BUtyIO fL9Q== X-Received: by 10.49.104.72 with SMTP id gc8mr41434642qeb.35.1374626371142; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.1.44] (CPE74d02b4255c8-CM78cd8ece2635.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [173.32.3.13]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w2sm47435983qec.8.2013.07.23.17.39.29 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Jul 2013 17:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_36FE305A-369B-47C9-8221-C481DD77C54B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: MICHAEL YOUNG In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 20:39:28 -0400 Message-Id: <2A63C966-C44E-438F-8A62-AA674824FBF2@mwyoung.ca> References: <4720C967-B72E-4D0E-B209-2344416F99E1@mwyoung.ca> To: "John R Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnmkLkT4cVjs1Gh3+H/T9AqwmPaHL+TTxPoGo0SkAPv0iYezYWEXRRvqyEeyVVBOaPpRkr3 Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 00:39:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_36FE305A-369B-47C9-8221-C481DD77C54B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ok John in all fairness you are cherry-picking, and the AGB Whois = question required an answer element on how to control unsanctioned data = mining, hence why Donuts has this in there. That said, there's no reason they may not offer select authenticated = users the ability to do wider searches. Even this answer simply asserts = that they are not going to offer a single query response that brings = back half the registry database in one go, it doesn't rule out a series = of incremental queries with applied rate limiting. No applicant is offering open public whois data mining as a service, = that was against the AGB requirements, but many are offering search = functionality as it got them an extra point in the application scores. =20= So, given that, I am still making the point that supporting that search = functionality in a standardized manner is important. How you control data mining is another very important question, but you = don't do it by a broken search implementation. All this might end up being a moot point given ICANN's latest direction = in centralized next gen Whois. -M On 2013-07-23, at 6:04 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: >> I agree some won't want to offer this type of functionality, that's = why I said this has to be determined by server policy, but that a = standardized way of offering it is important for those who do. >=20 > Having read a lot of the applications and all of the existing gTLD = agreements, I see no indication that any registry or any applicant will = support data mining. On the contrary, they tend to say they will = specifically forbid it. For example, I looked at one of the many = similar applications from Donuts, number 1-1255-37010, which says: >=20 > 2.6.3. Security and Stability Considerations >=20 > Abuse of the Whois system through data mining is a concern as it can > impact system performance and reduce the quality of service to = legitimate > users. The Whois system mitigates this type of abuse by detecting and > limiting bulk query access from single sources. It does this in two = ways: > 1) by rate limiting queries by non-authorized parties; and 2) by = ensuring > all queries result in responses that do not include data sets > representing significant portions of the registration database. In > addition, the Whois web interface adds a simple challenge-response = CAPCHA > that requires a user to type in the characters displayed in image = format. > Both systems have blacklist functionality to provide a complete block = to > individual IPs or IP ranges. >=20 > Can you point us at a specific registry or applicant that says they = will support data mining of the kind you're describing? >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. MICHAEL YOUNG michael@mwyoung.ca --Apple-Mail=_36FE305A-369B-47C9-8221-C481DD77C54B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

I agree some won't want to offer this type of = functionality, that's why I said this has to be determined by server = policy, but that a standardized way of offering it is important for = those who do.

Having read a lot of the applications = and all of the existing gTLD agreements, I see no indication that any = registry or any applicant will support data mining.  On the = contrary, they tend to say they will specifically forbid it.  For = example, I looked at one of the many similar applications from Donuts, = number 1-1255-37010, which says:

2.6.3. Security and Stability = Considerations

Abuse of the Whois system through data mining is = a concern as it can
impact system performance and reduce the quality = of service to legitimate
users. The Whois system mitigates this type = of abuse by detecting and
limiting bulk query access from single = sources. It does this in two ways:
1) by rate limiting queries by = non-authorized parties; and 2) by ensuring
all queries result in = responses that do not include data sets
representing significant = portions of the registration database. In
addition, the Whois web = interface adds a simple challenge-response CAPCHA
that requires a = user to type in the characters displayed in image format.
Both = systems have blacklist functionality to provide a complete block to
= individual IPs or IP ranges.

Can you point us at a specific = registry or applicant that says they will support data mining of the = kind you're describing?

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock = Networks, Trumansburg NY
"I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, = crestfallenly.




MICHAEL = YOUNG




= --Apple-Mail=_36FE305A-369B-47C9-8221-C481DD77C54B-- From johnl@taugh.com Tue Jul 23 18:27:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CDBF11E81AC for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:27:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9-uFeffXxy4w for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 695B611E81AB for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:27:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 82703 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2013 01:27:50 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=1430e.51ef2d96.k1307; bh=d0Zg9GaGe/Hnlbuhfl6wEGlWnh6EOHFBPvZCGHFxyLs=; b=M6hlJNUm3nQ5tLHB+bVK/iroQRqJmn/IhBt9Sx2dCqpQS1FcD/h9ipVMyi/rkk7PrJoRs15ScbNKwdQrQhMRKYQ4J07Pernf1e2AmRAN48SD3HIfXKBovm5oKco01ij2lNd1NMvNFa/yJbOUYz2dXl0y0LRO+QMW7fYhObQ/B7b6AajEu6/6fNecfGTNnH+GwwQKyH1uLlhY86TqGPgq18GvyJc1qqZb/G0tWBBm0qvG5Qv3wzhAO278dp1369A7 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=1430e.51ef2d96.k1307; bh=d0Zg9GaGe/Hnlbuhfl6wEGlWnh6EOHFBPvZCGHFxyLs=; b=ACStN217EzFlyqK3ATvtpjcPdLvQXnDB+fefaTxWF+NMCYsdaXuucyTFKa8i0KQrBQEpGRu1EWHFUjdvWxnodgGpTesLbwGOmX43IgC3rh4FaclhiONiajPPxD/mKk9fpdhJux8yeZIXW1CnTz1c86Fd6eRzVUZL4g7QZqv0dVbTFVN++lPNM3Fz/4NfdWjytu4jKahgTxDc42u4uubNN3+Ue9bDB0W4eYrDYXPV2acVLiIPR8brDUUGYagmH9ZW Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 24 Jul 2013 01:27:28 -0000 Date: 23 Jul 2013 21:27:50 -0400 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "MICHAEL YOUNG" In-Reply-To: <2A63C966-C44E-438F-8A62-AA674824FBF2@mwyoung.ca> References: <4720C967-B72E-4D0E-B209-2344416F99E1@mwyoung.ca> <2A63C966-C44E-438F-8A62-AA674824FBF2@mwyoung.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:27:54 -0000 > Ok John in all fairness you are cherry-picking, and the AGB Whois > question required an answer element on how to control unsanctioned data > mining, hence why Donuts has this in there. Page A-19 of the AGB says that WHOIS search is optional. I've read an awful lot of the applications and this answer is very typical. Unless you can identify a registry that wants to use RDAP to provide bulk access, I think this thread is done. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From ajs@anvilwalrusden.com Tue Jul 23 18:28:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ADD211E81AC for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:28:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.84 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.84 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_INFO=1.448, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SBaELfptzzkI for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (ow5p.x.rootbsd.net [208.79.81.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D18F11E81A6 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx1.yitter.info (c-75-69-155-67.hsd1.nh.comcast.net [75.69.155.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6B64E8A031 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:28:33 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 21:28:31 -0400 From: Andrew Sullivan To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20130724012831.GE41776@mx1.yitter.info> References: <4720C967-B72E-4D0E-B209-2344416F99E1@mwyoung.ca> <2A63C966-C44E-438F-8A62-AA674824FBF2@mwyoung.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2A63C966-C44E-438F-8A62-AA674824FBF2@mwyoung.ca> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:28:54 -0000 On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 08:39:28PM -0400, MICHAEL YOUNG wrote: > > No applicant is offering open public whois data mining as a service, > that was against the AGB requirements, but many are offering search > functionality as it got them an extra point in the application > scores. To be fair to John, he's not asking whether this could be useful. He's asking whether anyone actually will implement it. If there were someone saying, "Yes, we will," then that makes a difference. In the absence of such a claim, however, the previous arguments are all in force: don't make the protocol complicated to solve cases nobody wants to do. Despite the fact that, when I worked there, Afilias could have used a protocol that offered this functionality, we didn't implement IRIS, and it _did_ offer this ability. So that's a counter-argument to adding the feature to the protocol. > All this might end up being a moot point given ICANN's latest direction in centralized next gen Whois. If someone wants to make an argument for real that ICANN is going to pursue that direction, then I suggest we stop working on names altogether and finish the numbers case the way some people wanted to do originally. (For my part, I think that the "latest direction" is in fact just a bunch of half-informed -- or less -- people whose answer to all problems is to centralise everything under someone's control. I look forward to the RDAP-vs-OSICANNWhois bakeoff.) A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Tue Jul 23 20:32:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B89E411E81CF for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 20:32:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sgxhyqz37YIM for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 20:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C514211E81CE for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2013 20:32:06 -0700 (PDT) X-EYOUMAIL-SMTPAUTH: zhoulinlin@cnnic.cn Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO lenovo95e6383c) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:31:44 +0800 From: "Linlin Zhou" To: "'Ning Kong'" , References: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> In-Reply-To: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:31:42 +0800 Message-ID: <011101ce881e$50f430a0$f2dc91e0$@cn> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Ac6DURgVK61E39kKTiyQSeFhD8yfxAExqvJw Content-Language: zh-cn Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 03:32:14 -0000 > > #3 How should we document the search function? > Option1: one separated search document which covers all the issues of > search > Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP > documents (Query, Response, others?) > Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related RDAP > documents (Query, Response, others?), drafting one separated search > document to cover the advanced search function > I have a question for a long time in my mind. I have no idea how to separate the basic and advanced search functions. If we pick the option 3, the only difference I can see is that maybe the basic search function specifies two kinds of query types, the advanced function defines such as 8 query types and may also gives the Boolean query path specifications. IMO, we could define the same rules for query path segment, response format, IDN specifications and so on, both the basic and advanced search just follow them. Do we really need to separate them into several drafts? What's others thinking? Regards, Linlin From bje@apnic.net Wed Jul 24 00:04:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330B611E81FF for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 00:04:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.157 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1, RELAY_IS_203=0.994] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tEbQR1x9bvoF for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 00:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from so-mailgw.apnic.net (so-mailgw.apnic.net [IPv6:2001:dd8:a:3::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 680F011E8383 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 00:04:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apnic.net; s=c3po; h=received:received:received:from:to:cc:subject:thread-topic:thread-index:date: message-id:in-reply-to:accept-language:content-language:x-ms-has-attach: x-ms-tnef-correlator:x-originating-ip:content-type:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:return-path; bh=/DV2NUTfxMLaxxwMJGZSpOFyqqlKSfTuBPMJ1MErtts=; b=Vb+IaLiR5+2SMGOuIeX1ZFvGE5BjCpnGk21KSa+cPDTNtjEFjGxxEUgAFUgbPAmPZVF51ssb/TEUR jtpVhOsxe8nV1nbx6gBOhDCq7v1M8VxpJgETT9VErGWCc70Ud3wGACCzZu8i+Y+/Ekjg9yWl3LAAXY YpnOXxuoEpt1QggE= Received: from IAMDA1.org.apnic.net (unknown [203.119.93.247]) by so-mailgw.apnic.net (Halon Mail Gateway) with ESMTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 17:03:58 +1000 (EST) Received: from IAMDA2.org.apnic.net (2001:dd8:a:852::21) by IAMDA1.org.apnic.net (2001:dd8:a:852:f9ce:d66e:c64d:3db2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 17:03:58 +1000 Received: from NXMDA1.org.apnic.net ([fe80::c877:49c3:86f7:9d67]) by IAMDA2.org.apnic.net ([fe80::c75:3639:c2fb:c053%15]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 17:03:59 +1000 From: Byron Ellacott To: Andy Newton , Ernie Dainow Thread-Topic: [weirds] comments on draft-ietf-weirds-json-response-04 Thread-Index: AQHOhI2xJLCceuxFm0aaq60nB61ViplzbtEA Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:03:58 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [203.119.42.90] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] comments on draft-ietf-weirds-json-response-04 X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:04:10 -0000 While we're looking at the IANA registrations, I notice that "administrator" and "tech" are different levels of abbreviation - could we make "tech" be "technical" please? Also, the "port43" attribute is missing on ip and autnum object descriptions. Byron On 20/07/13 12:37 AM, "Andy Newton" wrote: >Thanks Ernie. Can I list you in the IANA registration? > >-andy > >On 7/18/13 3:57 PM, "Ernie Dainow" wrote: > >>Here are some additional Status values we currently use. Can they also >>be added to Section 9.1. >> >>hold: The domain will not be published in a zone for DNS resolution. >>This status is placed on the domain by the registrar. >> >>locked: The domain cannot be transferred, renewed, or deleted. >>Hierarchical and associated objects cannot be added or removed from the >>domain object. Domain names involved in disputes may be locked, subject >>to registry policies. >> >>Pending States - a request has been received and completion of the >>request is pending. The domain cannot be renewed, deleted, or updated >>while in any of these states. >>pending create >>pending renew >>pending transfer >>pending update >>pending delete: The domain has been removed from the zone, but has not >>yet been purged from the registry database. >> >>-Ernie >> >> >>On 7/3/2013 12:10 PM, Ernie Dainow wrote: >>> >>> p.24 What is [1] in >>> idnTable -- the name of the IDN table of codepoints, such as one >>> listed with the IANA (see IDN tables [1]). >>> >>> 9.1 Status >>> Add "associated" (as indicated in log on p.69 - Added associated to >>> the list of status values.) >>> Add "renew prohibited" >>> Correct spelling of "transfer prohibited" >>> p.29 "status" : [ "locked", "transferProhibited" ], >>> p.62 "status" : [ "locked", "transfer Prohibited" ], >>> >>> 9.3 Roles >>> Can we add "notifications" >>> For an example, see whois trip.asia >>> >>> p.40 and 61 >>> To be consistent with other examples of links in entity objects, change >>> "rel":"alternate" to "rel":"self" >>> >>> Appendixes >>> These sections contain a lot of information that is easily missed. >>> Some important concepts about entities are only covered in Appendix A >>> and C. It might be more streamlined to merge and integrate them into >>> Section 6.1 "The Entity Object Class". At least provide a reference >>> from 6.1 to Appendix A and C. >>> >>> -Ernie >>> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >weirds mailing list >weirds@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From peter@denic.de Wed Jul 24 00:50:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB6011E8393 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 00:50:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZdgJOL6RHA0a for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 00:50:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office.denic.de (office.denic.de [IPv6:2a02:568:122:16:1::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBCF911E80D1 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 00:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from x27.adm.denic.de (x28.fra2.if.denic.de [10.122.64.17]) by office.denic.de with esmtp id 1V1tps-0007u3-NK; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:50:12 +0200 Received: from localhost by x27.adm.denic.de with local id 1V1tps-0003AC-Jz; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:50:12 +0200 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 09:50:12 +0200 From: Peter Koch To: weirds@ietf.org Message-ID: <20130724075012.GJ23086@x28.adm.denic.de> References: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Sender: Peter Koch Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:50:14 -0000 On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 09:29:19AM -0700, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote: > Is there anyone that feels differently, or should the authors of those > documents proceed in that direction? I'd like the chairs to understand - and make sure by way of the writeup that the IESG understands - there's a significant risk of policy washing with the search capability even if it is declared an optional feature (where there's an ongoing ambiguity regarding implementation vs. operation already). -Peter From nkong@cnnic.cn Wed Jul 24 01:56:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED69B11E83DC for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:56:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WrCO81sw9NPk for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A36E411E83D9 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 01:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO [218.241.103.7]) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 16:56:38 +0800 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FE94C610-9FBB-46C6-A81B-F01E59369389" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ning Kong In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 16:56:38 +0800 Message-Id: <47279063-CD2E-4FB9-8805-B6D9F29FE09A@cnnic.cn> References: <46F451A0-F97D-4E42-864F-B93736137D96@cnnic.cn> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 08:56:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FE94C610-9FBB-46C6-A81B-F01E59369389 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Sure. I'll try to do this work. It seems that the focus of our discussion has been moved from Question = #3 to Question #1. I hope we can get a rough consensus on #1 before the = WG meeting in Berlin. So we can mainly focus on discussing about = Question #2 and #3. As for #1, IMO, there are mainly two different ways to answer this = question. Way 1, We should only consider the search functions which are = currently implemented in existing Whois system. That is to say, if = current Whois system doesn't (or rarely) support search functions, RDAP = shouldn't include search functions. Way 2, the potential requirements on the search functions for the = RDAP should be the key factor for us to consider. ICANN WSWG survey = results may be a useful reference for the WG. (Based on the result, the = requirements for search are considerable.) IMO, I lean on way 2 because I believe the requirements should be the = motivation for us to develop RDAP protocols. I'd like to know you guys' = clear choices on these two ways. Cheers, Ning > Any other opinions on this? Ning should be able to narrow down his = use of ten minutes based on the feedback if there's obvious consensus. >=20 > Ning, can you chip this down into a plan that will fit in the time we = have for face-to-face meeting? >=20 > -MSK >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:32 AM, Ernie Dainow = wrote: > On another thread there was support for including = as the basic search. This would = provide search functionality equivalent to a number of existing whois = servers. Based on this, the following requirements would be met.=20 >=20 > #2 What should be the search function? > 1) What query types should be searchable > yes Domain? > Handle? > yes Name? > Status? > Others? > yes Nameserver? > Handle? > yes Name? > IP? > Others? > yes Entity? > ID? > yes Name? > Email? > Adr? > Others? > no IP? > Handle? > StartAddress? > Name? > Others? > no AS? > Handle? > StartAutnum? > Name? > Others? >=20 > 2) What kind of search functions should be considered? > yes Wildcard?=20 > single character match,=20 > yes multiple characters match,=20 > specific number of characters match > Boolean? (and, or, not) > Page? > Order by? (Date, Name) >=20 > 2) What path segments should be used for search? > yes Option1: domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com by = hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02 > Option2: search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com by = zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00 > Option3: domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&page=3D3&orderby=3D= name >=20 > 3) What response format should be used for search? > Search level? > yes Multiple Results? > Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Number) > Oder by? >=20 > 4) Others? > yes I18N consideration > yes Security consideration (Privacy Protection) > Anything else? >=20 > #3 How should we document the search function? > Option1: one separated search document which covers all the = issues of search > Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP = documents > yes Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related RDAP = documents=09 > future Drafting one separate search document to cover = advanced search >=20 >=20 > -Ernie >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Ning Kong wrote: >=20 > Hi folks, >=20 > I try to list all related open questions on the search functions = through this new thread. Any comments are appreciated! >=20 > #1 Why should we consider the search function? > 1) Optional search function described by the ICANN AGB > 2) ICANN WSWG (Whois Survey Working Group) Survey Results = (Requirement 5 for search) > Note1: the final report of this survey is not published, = but the results can be accessed in the link of = https://community.icann.org/display/WSDT/WSWG+Survey+Results > Note2: According to the results, over 81% respondents = support the search function of domain name, over 53% respondents = indicated positive interest in the search function of others (over 31% = for NameServers, over 32% for Contact Name, over 34% for Contact Email). >=20 > #2 What should be the search function? > 1) What query types should be searchable > Domain? > Handle? > Name? > Status? > Others? > Nameserver? > Handle? > Name? > IP? > Others? > Entity? > ID? > Name? > Email? > Adr? > Others? > IP? > Handle? > StartAddress? > Name? > Others? > AS? > Handle? > StartAutnum? > Name? > Others? >=20 > 2) What kind of search functions should be considered? > Wildcard? (single character match, multiple characters = match, specific number of characters match) > Boolean? (and, or, not) > Page? > Order by? (Date, Name) >=20 > 2) What path segments should be used for search? > Option1: domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com by = hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02 > Option2: search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com by = zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00 > Option3: = domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&page=3D3&orderby=3Dname >=20 > 3) What response format should be used for search? > Search level ? > Multiple Results ? > Page ? (Total Page Number, Current Page Number) > Oder by ? >=20 > 4) Others? > I18N consideration > Security consideration (Privacy Protection) > Anything else? >=20 > #3 How should we document the search function? > Option1: one separated search document which covers all the = issues of search > Option2: Merging all the search function into all related = RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?) > Option3: Merging the basic search function into all related = RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?), drafting one separated search = document to cover the advanced search function >=20 > #4 Other Open Questions > 1) How to clearly define the basic search function and the = advanced one? > 2) Need we to consider the search function across different = RDAP servers? (Search + Redirect ?) >=20 >=20 >=20 > Cheers, > Ning >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds >=20 --Apple-Mail=_FE94C610-9FBB-46C6-A81B-F01E59369389 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Sure. = I'll try to do this work.

It seems that the focus of = our discussion has been moved from Question #3 to Question #1. I hope we = can get a rough consensus on #1 before the WG meeting in Berlin. So we = can mainly focus on discussing about Question #2 and = #3.

As for #1, IMO, there are mainly two = different ways to answer this question.
    =  Way 1, We should only consider the search functions which are = currently implemented in existing Whois system. That is to say, if = current Whois system doesn't (or rarely) support search functions, RDAP = shouldn't include search functions.
      Way = 2, the potential requirements on the search functions for the RDAP = should be the key factor for us to consider. ICANN WSWG survey results = may be a useful reference for the WG. (Based on the result, the = requirements for search are considerable.)

IMO, = I lean on way 2 because I believe the requirements should be the = motivation for us to develop RDAP protocols. I'd like to know you guys' = clear choices on these two = ways.

Cheers,
Ning

=



Any other opinions on this?  Ning should be able = to narrow down his use of ten minutes based on the feedback if there's = obvious consensus.

Ning, can you chip this down into a = plan that will fit in the time we have for face-to-face meeting?

-MSK


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 8:32 AM, Ernie Dainow = <edainow@afilias.info> wrote:
On another thread there was support for = including <draft-hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search> as the basic = search. This would provide search functionality equivalent to a number = of existing whois servers. Based on this, the following requirements = would be met. 

#2  What should be the search = function?
= 1)  What query types should be = searchable
yes = Domain?
= Handle?
yes = Name?
= Status?
= Others?
yes = Nameserver?
= Handle?
yes = Name?
IP?
= Others?
yes = Entity?
= ID?
yes = Name?
= Email?
= Adr?
= Others?
no = IP?
= Handle?
= StartAddress?
= Name?
= Others?
no = AS?
= Handle?
= StartAutnum?
= Name?
= Others?

2)  What kind of search = functions should be considered?
yes Wildcard? 
single = character match, 
yes = multiple characters match, 
= specific number of characters match
= Boolean? (and, or, not)
Page?
Order by? (Date, = Name)

= 2)  What path segments should be used for = search?
yes = Option1:   domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com       = by hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02
    =     Option2:   search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com     =   by zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00
Option3:   = domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&page=3D3&orderby=3Dname

= 3)  What response format should be used for = search?
= Search level?
yes Multiple Results?
Page ? = (Total Page Number, Current Page Number)
Oder = by?

= 4)  Others?
yes = I18N consideration
yes Security consideration = (Privacy Protection)
Anything else?

#3  How should we document the search = function?
= Option1: one separated search document which covers all the = issues of search
= Option2: Merging all the search function into all related RDAP = documents
yes Option3: = Merging the basic search function into all related RDAP documents
future Drafting one separate search = document to cover advanced search
=


-Ernie



On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:51 PM, Ning Kong <nkong@cnnic.cn> wrote:

Hi folks,

I try to list all related open questions on the search functions through = this new thread. Any comments are appreciated!

#1  Why should we consider the search function?
        1)  Optional search function described = by the ICANN AGB
        2)  ICANN WSWG (Whois Survey Working = Group) Survey Results (Requirement 5 for search)
             Note1: the final report = of this survey is not published, but the results can be accessed in the = link of https://community.icann.org/display/WSDT/WSWG+Survey+Res= ults
             Note2: According to the = results, over 81% respondents support the search function of domain = name, over 53% respondents indicated positive interest in the search = function of others (over 31% for NameServers, over 32% for Contact Name, = over 34% for Contact Email).

#2  What should be the search function?
        1)  What query types should be = searchable
                Domain?
                    =     Handle?
                    =     Name?
                    =     Status?
                    =     Others?
                Nameserver?
                    =     Handle?
                    =     Name?
                    =     IP?
                    =     Others?
                Entity?
                    =     ID?
                    =     Name?
                    =     Email?
                    =     Adr?
                    =     Others?
                IP?
                    =     Handle?
                    =     StartAddress?
                    =     Name?
                    =     Others?
                AS?
                    =     Handle?
                    =     StartAutnum?
                    =     Name?
                    =     Others?

        2)  What kind of search functions = should be considered?
                Wildcard? = (single character match, multiple characters match, specific number of = characters match)
                Boolean? (and, = or, not)
                Page?
                Order by? (Date, = Name)

        2)  What path segments should be used = for search?
                Option1:   = domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com      by = hollenbeck-weirds-rdap-search-02
                Option2:   = search/?domain=3Dexampl*.com      by = zhou-weirds-rdap-restful-search-00
                Option3:   = domains/?name=3Dexampl*.com&page=3D3&orderby=3Dname

        3)  What response format should be used = for search?
                Search level = ?
                Multiple Results = ?
                Page ? (Total = Page Number, Current Page Number)
                Oder by ?

        4)  Others?
                I18N = consideration
                Security = consideration (Privacy Protection)
                Anything = else?

#3  How should we document the search function?
        Option1:  one separated search document = which covers all the issues of search
        Option2:  Merging all the search = function into all related RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?)
        Option3:  Merging the basic search = function into all related RDAP documents (Query, Response, others?), = drafting one separated search document to cover the advanced search = function

#4  Other Open Questions
        1)  How to clearly define the basic = search function and the advanced one?
        2)  Need we to consider the search = function across different RDAP servers? (Search + Redirect ?)



Cheers,
Ning

_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds


_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds

=
= --Apple-Mail=_FE94C610-9FBB-46C6-A81B-F01E59369389-- From andy@arin.net Wed Jul 24 03:07:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA86311E8156 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 03:07:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CyliTQEbfseA for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 03:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D8CC11E83CC for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 03:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 9297B16516A; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E61B81650F2; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:06:39 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.18]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:06:36 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "John R. Levine" Thread-Topic: [weirds] search for A-labels Thread-Index: AQHOhu1FE8H/BnlA/0KACYvOp+AO4ZlxEUQAgAAHQoCAAYXOgIAAWMSAgACmAIA= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:06:36 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <223367DB7041BF449CF86382CC4F211A@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] search for A-labels X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:07:09 -0000 On 7/23/13 4:12 PM, "John R. Levine" wrote: >> The point Scott is trying to make, I think, is that we are attempting to >> define how two pieces of software interoperate and that unpredictable >> results are likely in this case. At the very least we should point out >> that the results will be unpredictable or at-best based on partial match >> semantics of ASCII only. > >Hmmn. If you look for ab* you can't tell whether that's an ASCII pattern >or a U-label pattern. If you look for xn--ab* it's definitely an A-label >pattern. Yes, that's right. I believe that is why we received the advice about ab* being a search for all the combinations that 'b' could be combined with if it were a Unicode character that might be combined with another Unicode character and the references to the docs specifying the list of combinations. FWI, I don't have a strong opinion on this either way. I just know that I18N search is non-trivial and I doubt we'll get to publication in the IETF if we don't have a good answer for it. -andy From andy@arin.net Wed Jul 24 03:15:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0541911E83CC for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 03:15:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9-GDMai+9RBs for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 03:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0700D11E8103 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 03:15:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id A47EB1651B9; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A34916516A; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:15:40 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.18]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 06:15:39 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: John Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP Thread-Index: AQHOh+VE743Uqi/U0EebHY06AK1FMZlzBYEAgAASRYCAAIXrAA== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:15:38 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20130723221619.73211.qmail@joyce.lan> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5EB642D94FEA004BBE6DFBC66535BC15@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:15:54 -0000 On 7/23/13 6:16 PM, "John Levine" wrote: >>That many do all have a bulk whois service, and since RDAP can do >>authentication they could then do the bulk whois using the same >>protocol? > >Hence I'd want to hear from a registry that says that they will >implement bulk RDAP before trying to invent a query protocol for it. >What's the point otherwise? John, We (ARIN) offer search and bulk access (two different things), though we don't offer search access with paging. The search features are somewhat similar to the current basic features but with combining logic for multiple fields in some situations. The bulk access is restricted to those signing an AUP only, and is offered up as ZIP files via HTTP in a completely different manner than our restful whois service. All that said, I agree with your design approach. Let's get the basic stuff out the door and worry about the corner cases and more advanced features later. -andy From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Jul 24 04:18:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8469011E8200 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 04:18:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L6-YcW9NdqbN for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 04:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og120.obsmtp.com (exprod6og120.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2F1611E81D0 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 04:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob120.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUe+4Ap8kjUuZAW9dXya2hYE8UABWfkTD@postini.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 04:18:28 PDT Received: from BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexchm01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.255]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6OBIMl9031002 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:18:23 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by BRN1WNEXCHM01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 07:18:22 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andrew Sullivan , "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP Thread-Index: AQHOh+VE5TWSY3TwzkiDniws1E43tZlzD+6AgAAEfoCAACtZAIAADbSAgABcdAA= Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:18:22 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F4921F181@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <4720C967-B72E-4D0E-B209-2344416F99E1@mwyoung.ca> <2A63C966-C44E-438F-8A62-AA674824FBF2@mwyoung.ca> <20130724012831.GE41776@mx1.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20130724012831.GE41776@mx1.yitter.info> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 11:18:38 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan > Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 9:29 PM > To: weirds@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP [snip] > > All this might end up being a moot point given ICANN's latest > direction in centralized next gen Whois. >=20 > If someone wants to make an argument for real that ICANN is going to > pursue that direction, then I suggest we stop working on names > altogether and finish the numbers case the way some people wanted to > do originally. (For my part, I think that the "latest direction" is > in fact just a bunch of half-informed -- or less -- people whose > answer to all problems is to centralise everything under someone's > control. I look forward to the RDAP-vs-OSICANNWhois bakeoff.) "half-informed -- or less"? Sigh... Anything the EWG (of which I am a member) recommends is nothing more than t= hat - a _recommendation_ to be considered by the GNSO. It's not a "directio= n" at all. I fully expect that whatever eventually comes out of the policy = development process will be different, and a single, centralized repository= might not be part of the solution because it does present significant chal= lenges. Either way the work we're doing _here_ should be useful (if not a r= eal driver) and will very likely shape the future if/when we deploy RDAP an= d gain real operational experience with it. Running code should easily trump theory. I don't see there ever being an "O= SICANNWhois". While we're on the topic of centralization, I do believe there's one place = where it could be very helpful for us: user credentials and authentication.= I'd much prefer to work with a system where a small number of trusted enti= ties become the "go to" sources for credentials so that people who work wit= h multiple operators don't have to secure credentials from each one indepen= dently. Federated authentication makes a lot of sense when the number of re= gistry operators is large. Scott From johnl@iecc.com Wed Jul 24 08:59:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0AD011E8114 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 08:59:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.679 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.679 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.520, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zlw9tUCaWlj9 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 08:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8369B11E80D3 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 08:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 23857 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2013 15:59:21 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 24 Jul 2013 15:59:21 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51eff9d9.xn--3zv.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=AXPb4MF4vYGftzCguxFcfxIuE3nQxHyYN2jxjJ/Tw6s=; b=Lr7DrKpjdhqf9q5mZZUh2fjV9lod0+hmnvGbehy5Cw4QRnSTZx8ggjPsPV1MWkUMb1sNLpd3HeDtl4aj83qqpGcWH+0dLI+upL3pWb2e84dNa/lc/tFrrXE8agxWs5dg/kCdnnOxvcZPUwZl9KAnjDcXzbk9gC1nsOY2+itCwo/f9to+kCMkTyVqD3rcnJkKuSF57AtQs/WOqH70tonGGUohr158mEBoy5NzZ5hczaZkSnsSetWTlaWWKWC/CiUi DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51eff9d9.xn--3zv.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=AXPb4MF4vYGftzCguxFcfxIuE3nQxHyYN2jxjJ/Tw6s=; b=JONanalLQKscplw4l/ncGx1fCcvGb/4Awxfaei29IrJRyK14XW0jtmmGkjh6CkjYQZBkm+Gn+Em2RrYShIAdqKAi8SRm03tXwMfZ3nLubhgG4pVb1LCOx8Be04nawzjjOJRPsf7m/T5MXsqgagpUpAWLeQiuW7dPEvWqJHJm4aPdjXikxZWNnI/8iDNeHFBXrb2TZhCnzsDU4iD/vCm69aVRI08mwnFefAxFo5X4TjNAJQSKzm+vyTwgv5+6cmKp Date: 24 Jul 2013 15:58:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20130724155858.3132.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <47279063-CD2E-4FB9-8805-B6D9F29FE09A@cnnic.cn> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 15:59:29 -0000 >As for #1, IMO, there are mainly two different ways to answer this question. > Way 1, We should only consider the search functions which are >currently implemented in existing Whois system. That is to say, if >current Whois system doesn't (or rarely) support search functions, RDAP >shouldn't include search functions. > Way 2, the potential requirements on the search functions for the >RDAP should be the key factor for us to consider. ICANN WSWG survey >results may be a useful reference for the WG. (Based on the result, the >requirements for search are considerable.) I can report from sad experience that nothing good will come from attempting to design complex untested features and hoping that someone will implement them. The search requirements are, as far as I can tell, just a wish list of what WHOIS users would like. But there are strong reasons, both technical and policy reasons, that registries and registrars don't offer complex WHOIS searches now. Since they don't offer complex search now, I don't understand why they would offer it with RDAP. There is nothing in the new gTLD program that requires any search at all. Even if we try and limit ourself to the technical issues, complex searches are a difficult database problem. Searches that look similar can require very different amounts of work, e.g., a search for "ab*" is usually two or three disk operations, while a search for "*ab" often requires scanning the entire table. To design something that had a chance of working, we would need both database experts and registry/registrar operations experts. So please, let's specify what people are likely to implement. If it later turns out that registries actually plan to do complex search, then we can work with them to design something they plan to implement. R's, John From ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net Wed Jul 24 10:08:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7431711E8125 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:08:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DapPmCS6fOVt for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wampumpeag.net (unknown [65.99.1.131]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5077911E80F6 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from abalone.local ([67.42.198.88]) by wampumpeag.net (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id r6OH87gx046230 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 13:08:07 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net) Message-ID: <51F009F6.50508@abenaki.wabanaki.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 10:08:06 -0700 From: Eric Brunner-Williams Organization: wampumpeag User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <4720C967-B72E-4D0E-B209-2344416F99E1@mwyoung.ca> <2A63C966-C44E-438F-8A62-AA674824FBF2@mwyoung.ca> <20130724012831.GE41776@mx1.yitter.info> In-Reply-To: <20130724012831.GE41776@mx1.yitter.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 17:08:16 -0000 On 7/23/13 6:28 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: >> > All this might end up being a moot point given ICANN's latest direction in centralized next gen Whois. > If someone wants to make an argument for real that ICANN is going to > pursue that direction, then I suggest we stop working on names > altogether and finish the numbers case the way some people wanted to > do originally. (For my part, I think that the "latest direction" is > in fact just a bunch of half-informed -- or less -- people whose > answer to all problems is to centralise everything under someone's > control. I look forward to the RDAP-vs-OSICANNWhois bakeoff.) Plus One. The new (now 8 months into what may be just a three year gig) CEO/President made a pre-informed commitment just about 8 months ago (at the Toronto meeting) and the policy volunteers in this area include ... wicked few of us. On to numbers. Eric From sm@resistor.net Wed Jul 24 12:50:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D16711E8105; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:50:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sqj3vnPQEHas; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ipv6.elandsys.com (mx.ipv6.elandsys.com [IPv6:2001:470:f329:1::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00A3111E80A2; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SUBMAN.resistor.net (IDENT:sm@localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mx.elandsys.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r6OJoJ5r011022; Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:50:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=opendkim.org; s=mail2010; t=1374695424; bh=zPjBDaCu4Dhvdhone/Ke1/oo4E7x2u/LUZAF1oeL8+k=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=Uhl4kaf/4eo9SSShTJ8F/uxxAq27Ge/IW7UZFNmVedN6qx0JdLd+HFELy5R4JDfuX +8VaI1r9GXj+lN8Tjl1cGEm4KvedudJ0L63mXCFLnJN9hRyHcQ26h2JhW7q8kjchyq fRVBXTtRmvrLxvaiFnuHfkaAA1e7RdosRD6+uvzs= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=resistor.net; s=mail; t=1374695424; i=@resistor.net; bh=zPjBDaCu4Dhvdhone/Ke1/oo4E7x2u/LUZAF1oeL8+k=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Cc:In-Reply-To:References; b=N5o5kxNhpphUk1O1/M+cTlQQSVzaOl8awyge6q95EZjzJk5wYQUWWAjCPGG9bLJRr eLPQMnJmHTKpDc8bNLwzU9DH5IaNkC5FxCz8Zp6/Xy2AUrYZuUmyVMGn1yoYvYYV6q 33oxyukhERNJ4uc51kNXsHLG0e2o5/U2gRGQi6pk= Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20130724111528.0d2bf428@resistor.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.5.6 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:21:24 -0700 To: ietf@ietf.org From: SM In-Reply-To: <20130715230614.25146.34230.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20130715230614.25146.34230.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Last Call: (Security Services for the Registration Data Access Protocol) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 19:50:37 -0000 At 16:06 15-07-2013, The IESG wrote: >The IESG has received a request from the Web Extensible Internet >Registration Data Service WG (weirds) to consider the following document: >- 'Security Services for the Registration Data Access Protocol' > as Proposed Standard > >The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits >final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the >ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2013-07-29. Exceptionally, comments may be According to Section 1, the Registration Data Access Protocol is a Lookup Format, JSON Responses and HTTP usage. This looks like a weird protocol to me. If the said protocol is HTTP + JSON (responses) it would be clearer to the reader to explain that in one specification. Section 1 mentions that: "One goal of RDAP is to provide security services that do not exist in the WHOIS" I don't see how adding a fourth document helps to achieve that goal. In Section 3.1: 'To that end, RDAP clients and servers MUST implement the authentication framework specified in "HTTP Authentication: Basic and Digest Access Authentication" [RFC2617].' This draft refers to the above authentication framework as the RDAP authentication framework. The draft then explains how the "basic" and "digest" schemes work. This is "how-to" stuff. The draft sets the following requirement: 'If the "basic" scheme is used, HTTP Over TLS [RFC2818] MUST be used to protect the client's credentials from disclosure while in transit (see Section 3.4).' If I understood correctly HTTPS is needed for security only if the "basic" scheme" is used. "RDAP SHOULD be capable of supporting future authentication methods defined for use with HTTP." That sounds like a "SHOULD CONSIDER". Given how ill-defined the protocol is I doubt that the above is actionable. In Section 3.1.1: "RDAP MAY include a federated authentication mechanism that permits a client to access multiple RDAP servers in the same federation with one credential." Using an upper-case "may" does not bring much in terms of security. The draft takes the stance that security is an optional feature. Section 3.1.1 looks like an executive summary for federated authentication. In Section 3.3: "An RDAP service has to be available to be useful. There are no RDAP- unique requirements to provide availability, but as a general security consideration a service operator needs to be aware of the issues associated with denial of service." The text says that the service must be available to be useful and that there isn't any requirement for the service to be available. In Section 3.4: "Web services such as RDAP commonly use HTTP Over TLS [RFC2818] to provide that protection by encrypting all traffic sent on the connection between client and server." The above describes the protocol as a web service. "When this scheme is used, HTTP Over TLS MUST be used to protect the client's credentials from disclosure while in transit.' The above repeats a "MUST" mentioned in a previous section. In Section 5: "RDAP might need to be extended to provide this service in the future." This does not look like a security consideration. "Code injection refers to adding code into a computer system or program to alter the course of execution." I can only wonder about who is the target audience after reading the above. The security considerations section seems like an attempt to write something about security as there isn't nothing to say about the protocol. Overall, the draft does not look like a technical specification. It looks like the working group took FYI 36 as a template for designing a security service instead of thinking about security and designing a security service. Regards, -sm From nkong@cnnic.cn Thu Jul 25 01:37:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 677E321F99AF for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 01:37:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CDCyHhhhFBir for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 01:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B988721F999E for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 01:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO [218.241.103.97]) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:37:29 +0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ning Kong In-Reply-To: <20130724155858.3132.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:37:29 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20130724155858.3132.qmail@joyce.lan> To: "John Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 08:37:58 -0000 Hi John, Thanks for your comments. Please see my feedback inline. > I can report from sad experience that nothing good will come from > attempting to design complex untested features and hoping that someone > will implement them. >=20 > The search requirements are, as far as I can tell, just a wish list of > what WHOIS users would like. =20 No. Not only WHOIS users but also WHOIS providers joined the ICANN WSWG = survey. Based on the result documents, the participants cover Commercial = business user, Non-commercial organization user, Individual or end user, = Domain name Registrar and/or Registry, Internet access provider or = network operator. > But there are strong reasons, both > technical and policy reasons, that registries and registrars don't > offer complex WHOIS searches now. Since they don't offer complex > search now, I don't understand why they would offer it with RDAP. "They don't offer it now" doesn't definitely equal to "They won't offer = it later". > Even if we try and limit ourself to the technical issues, complex > searches are a difficult database problem. Searches that look similar > can require very different amounts of work, e.g., a search for "ab*" > is usually two or three disk operations, while a search for "*ab" > often requires scanning the entire table. To design something that > had a chance of working, we would need both database experts and > registry/registrar operations experts. I understand. But the above problem can't be the reason that we should = not do this work. > So please, let's specify what people are likely to implement. If it > later turns out that registries actually plan to do complex search, > then we can work with them to design something they plan to > implement. Agree. IMO, making a survey is a method to specify what people are = likely to implement. I wonder if you think the ICANN WSWG survey is = enough or not. As I mentioned in my last reply, I hope we can firstly make clear on the = question #1. Here, I slightly modify it. Question #1 Should we consider the search function (whether it is = simple or complex)? Answer 1: Yes. Both simple and complex function. Answer 2: Yes. only simple function.=20 Answer 3: No. So, what is your choice? Cheers, Ning From johnl@taugh.com Thu Jul 25 09:10:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19EA221F969F for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:10:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AHWIo6xOkbgF for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13CD821F9433 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 26322 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2013 16:10:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=66d0.51f14dd8.k1307; bh=/bRGWr7m5SOeDn1e8yLmk74O1ujIY25PGLwfKK5nwb0=; b=TOCAo+UjCD/jv6HTrUA0KoTtxv/uT+Ck117OWpwV33UVzfyXdMu/rAtVFJj7SPwv67vKwEholhkYtYCUvy4BwQ2IJ9CwNRfLMCBUhq/AosCn+U4lJXFejk/j3CyfsqILmCaxug5oweGvEdTg301UhMHM/0PEJrSvpB0+K7UD5xf2v49B87fRENDIz/DaaO5kDmQNg+ZEMbWjFczAR2tCvRKgYnIY1afX+1XLUQtFW9vhQ6kh3du1t9p7qCjwDnlp DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=66d0.51f14dd8.k1307; bh=/bRGWr7m5SOeDn1e8yLmk74O1ujIY25PGLwfKK5nwb0=; b=sxsN/JNvB9pwnB9k6VN2Vgv8SaAHnuHxxNh5uH9q3WMWPbZlzNks8FmIJhzjpn/FYMUAHFzfeIIxzcRTWLLEaZRFDD9IyANG8UD4ZLeJD2ZTn4vV4+sMIAmGmAsO8hjP/4/vsBcBZKyQ21YrGfuvfsC/OsVyNOkYgLx+azqsMh2tub7ePuhJPxlbXKmo3n2NVzRPD9P83/Lm4V55ebIEfRAHHbx9Z/fZ0hEeX/57QGmLcExLQvEFV6Cvxk4bkIrN Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 25 Jul 2013 16:09:38 -0000 Date: 25 Jul 2013 18:09:59 +0200 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Ning Kong" In-Reply-To: References: <20130724155858.3132.qmail@joyce.lan> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:10:09 -0000 > Answer 2: Yes. only simple function. We've seen providers that say they'll do simple search, so that's what we should put in the spec. If we find registries that plan to offer more complex searches, we can add that later, but I'd very much prefer to put something simple in the spec that we are confident can be implemented. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From andy@arin.net Thu Jul 25 09:30:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC9F021F967C for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:30:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=4.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AXszgQ+l+aH0 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [192.149.252.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E9121F964C for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id EA413165312; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (ashxch01.corp.arin.net [199.43.0.17]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D125165310; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:30:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by ASHXCH01.corp.arin.net (199.43.0.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.421.2; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:30:09 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.18]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 12:30:08 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: John R Levine , Ning Kong Thread-Topic: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP Thread-Index: AQHOg1EY743Uqi/U0EebHY06AK1FMZlsZrwAgAT1/ICAAncdAIAAdgAAgAEW+4CAAH5ugP//wo+A Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:30:06 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:30:52 -0000 On 7/25/13 12:09 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: >> Answer 2: Yes. only simple function. > >We've seen providers that say they'll do simple search, so that's what we >should put in the spec. > >If we find registries that plan to offer more complex searches, we can >add=20 >that later, but I'd very much prefer to put something simple in the spec >that we are confident can be implemented. +1 -andy From fneves@registro.br Thu Jul 25 09:55:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C4E521F849C for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:55:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0BYgTww9NwFL for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:55:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clone.registro.br (clone.registro.br [IPv6:2001:12ff:0:2::4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5687721F8925 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 09:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by clone.registro.br (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4A669E04AE; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 13:55:03 -0300 (BRT) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 13:55:03 -0300 From: Frederico A C Neves To: "weirds@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20130725165503.GC64849@registro.br> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 16:55:10 -0000 On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 04:30:06PM +0000, Andy Newton wrote: > On 7/25/13 12:09 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: > > >> Answer 2: Yes. only simple function. > > > >We've seen providers that say they'll do simple search, so that's what we > >should put in the spec. > > > >If we find registries that plan to offer more complex searches, we can > >add > >that later, but I'd very much prefer to put something simple in the spec > >that we are confident can be implemented. > > > +1 > > -andy I also support this direction. Fred From nkong@cnnic.cn Thu Jul 25 17:49:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A8021F8C8E for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:49:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c+FA7cY4wVYc for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 078F521F8C65 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO [218.241.103.248]) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 08:49:35 +0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ning Kong In-Reply-To: <20130725165503.GC64849@registro.br> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 08:49:35 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4CA036F4-CC58-4DF8-AA33-791A4165648B@cnnic.cn> References: <20130725165503.GC64849@registro.br> To: Frederico A C Neves X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 00:49:48 -0000 > On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 04:30:06PM +0000, Andy Newton wrote: >> On 7/25/13 12:09 PM, "John R Levine" wrote: >>=20 >>>> Answer 2: Yes. only simple function. >>>=20 >>> We've seen providers that say they'll do simple search, so that's = what we >>> should put in the spec. >>>=20 >>> If we find registries that plan to offer more complex searches, we = can >>> add=20 >>> that later, but I'd very much prefer to put something simple in the = spec >>> that we are confident can be implemented. >>=20 >>=20 >> +1 >>=20 >> -andy >=20 > I also support this direction. >=20 > Fred I can accept this direction, too. Any other different choices? If this direction is our current consensus, let's move on to discuss the = following questions (#2, #3, #4 or others) based on this direction.=20 Ning From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Fri Jul 26 14:28:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1884C11E8150 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 14:28:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.555 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.555 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=0.044, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AA5k+9aW30GZ for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 14:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AABAE21F9635 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 14:28:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.143.107.54] (unknown [109.144.253.41]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 04C1A4712E; Fri, 26 Jul 2013 17:27:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Blanchet Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9C79E74F-1985-43E5-AD38-8B0D9ED22DF9" Message-Id: <4156D1CD-F4B0-4EF7-967E-5D28D5A13382@viagenie.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 13:58:28 -0400 To: "weirds@ietf.org Group" , weirds-chairs@tools.ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [weirds] bootstrap slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 21:28:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9C79E74F-1985-43E5-AD38-8B0D9ED22DF9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, please find slides for the bootstrap discussion. 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RTVGMTJBOTYwNDZBMTRDOUY4NEQKPj4Kc3RhcnR4cmVmCjU0MjEwCiUlRU9GCg== --Apple-Mail=_9C79E74F-1985-43E5-AD38-8B0D9ED22DF9-- From johnl@iecc.com Sat Jul 27 02:09:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19CA021F9C55 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 02:09:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.559 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.774, BAYES_40=-0.185, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bzl19KzVyWsv for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 02:09:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E9E21F9C59 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 02:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 63054 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2013 09:09:10 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 27 Jul 2013 09:09:10 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51f38e35.xn--hew.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=uq7PBucPon5Ho45AYsjLkhCmOm9wCE9ASzY25EVYLwA=; b=FVawpTkbs1Oc8MXalQxKU4W19/KxOt6Y/7IttC3oxCVNw19rr5gZ1WiWsiAzcttMXYkzphrlTUruA7JXkyGeY8puWyvKK5n3X85wkyL64NzzQgMJG0uUoBHZbJqsRrvmTGV/TMdARp+SMqNDiToTZCS38X77Fi+lAq9R4f977s4s8bYsVMWWdZO90aOs+bKyImKBijiDW924b1M3mULg94pm0j8zvt82kWyGeAzHh6Ydb7cNikC5a+7iAd3FdDuT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51f38e35.xn--hew.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=uq7PBucPon5Ho45AYsjLkhCmOm9wCE9ASzY25EVYLwA=; b=p+7OMBhKSYayXTw06qx8U6wGnk4ez0MLvhH5v0I3kGDUvqVpdHJIbnKTLVDf9SF1At+oqeqXrZhvoQx3YSGQu6eXWCxvhAGyzLEuwhtGnq1jNT9eMjlwK6GBqbON1eXUc/ekpOWtUY6zt049AgEzuilK2HnYuNaxZmtIgqUM9LhOA07NJ3/zZc64LVj09mZ8MJoC5zUfS42iTas+QpygZVnX0kJ4afYPjH1pCfCyABZW0rtLMSl+nmXBFFCb+jUo Date: 27 Jul 2013 09:08:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20130727090846.24537.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4156D1CD-F4B0-4EF7-967E-5D28D5A13382@viagenie.ca> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 09:09:17 -0000 > please find slides for the bootstrap discussion. Looks OK, except that you left out the most likely numbers bootstrap, start at your local RIR and trust them to redirect. R's, John From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Sat Jul 27 04:58:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B8021F9CC7 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 04:58:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.549 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.549 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nQdHIVwojB3W for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 04:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59EA521F8FDC for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 04:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A2C4D4689C; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 07:58:47 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: <20130727090846.24537.qmail@joyce.lan> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 12:58:45 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0F25A59F-226A-473C-A4CD-D0A68F8595C3@viagenie.ca> References: <20130727090846.24537.qmail@joyce.lan> To: "John Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:58:48 -0000 Le 2013-07-27 =E0 10:08, "John Levine" a =E9crit : >> please find slides for the bootstrap discussion. >=20 > Looks OK, except that you left out the most likely numbers bootstrap, > start at your local RIR and trust them to redirect. ok, will add. But at the same time, somewhere we need to list those = servers. Shall not be in an RFC. Then, it shall be an IANA registry. So = if it is an IANA registry, then why not then do a match using the ranges = and then you most likely go to the right server right away.=20 Marc. >=20 > R's, > John From johnl@taugh.com Sat Jul 27 05:43:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00C9121F8B12 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:43:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y-Hl+t9Krbyb for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0263C21F8A53 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 05:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 10321 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2013 12:43:25 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=2850.51f3c06d.k1307; bh=A9vqaRugTIC3VXWipqYVGK9CoPmSheRYXoFIUGTAd3o=; b=gGde/mA1DZhgB07dY/h4xVY/4EKE2Zjx4CgyHkv8f+UK/Oq9uRY6dcG8o0MZX4kt02CUVvBnnS0u9QeicpgFxrOvV2r9Z+JvePNXlY1xgUC5oQqbQ3pjimbxi5PnVzkYpAq3IutSj8e2mf1sIY5IEKQHpgwvrl8srY+uC9zYBpGoqBjoh9MLYPXODJ3miCSLgC9HFWUNsIwmkpsCQxiS1UAVmPgIilZ8pkblR46kkWOAkDR+yagr08X7N9zVYwXX DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:user-agent:cleverness; s=2850.51f3c06d.k1307; bh=A9vqaRugTIC3VXWipqYVGK9CoPmSheRYXoFIUGTAd3o=; b=uT6vkNZomEyDs/egRLt/r/MgYfjywCqLHShL/BOQaphuomPL7p6JH/8B+Uh307aUCuWwXRAKJ7OR4UGLNJGIYowhOVsN1I6+os4zwSzKlVQZo67Dl40biNnpNxci/X2c0mI+BSNNk2XYPjGsHaN9nEZNq3CommbChMK5V/mikpCTBBCMMzq82qT90snEi9oaJGXdfVLJx7jz1g28Otb3ugVo7tVPYlc5nkv1/FZMVoS6n0YHQHKNDIAJs22cEIJW Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 27 Jul 2013 12:43:03 -0000 Date: 27 Jul 2013 14:43:24 +0200 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Marc Blanchet" In-Reply-To: <0F25A59F-226A-473C-A4CD-D0A68F8595C3@viagenie.ca> References: <20130727090846.24537.qmail@joyce.lan> <0F25A59F-226A-473C-A4CD-D0A68F8595C3@viagenie.ca> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 12:43:33 -0000 >> Looks OK, except that you left out the most likely numbers bootstrap, >> start at your local RIR and trust them to redirect. > > ok, will add. But at the same time, somewhere we need to list those >servers. Shall not be in an RFC. Then, it shall be an IANA registry. So >if it is an IANA registry, then why not then do a match using the ranges >and then you most likely go to the right server right away. Because it's going to be configured one time when the lookup software is installed, by asking the person doing the installing where they are, or maybe a rough guess from the high bits of the local IP address, not done dynamically on every lookup. Given that there are only five RIRs, and there is approximately zero chance that there will ever be any more, there might nominally be a registry, but in reality it'll be hard coded. Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Sat Jul 27 06:03:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F5F21F8BCE for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:03:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bu9vzrHXLX3W for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 690E721F8BB7 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 06:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 944CA4689C; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 09:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:03:20 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <92E7E25E-9AAE-481C-9FDC-06AB7999908F@viagenie.ca> References: <20130727090846.24537.qmail@joyce.lan> <0F25A59F-226A-473C-A4CD-D0A68F8595C3@viagenie.ca> To: "John R Levine" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 13:03:26 -0000 Le 2013-07-27 =E0 13:43, "John R Levine" a =E9crit : >>> Looks OK, except that you left out the most likely numbers = bootstrap, >>> start at your local RIR and trust them to redirect. >>=20 >=20 >> ok, will add. But at the same time, somewhere we need to list those = servers. Shall not be in an RFC. Then, it shall be an IANA registry. So >> if it is an IANA registry, then why not then do a match using the = ranges and then you most likely go to the right server right away. >=20 > Because it's going to be configured one time when the lookup software = is installed, by asking the person doing the installing where they are, = or maybe a rough guess from the high bits of the local IP address, not = done dynamically on every lookup. Given that there are only five RIRs, = and there is approximately zero chance that there will ever be any more, = there might nominally be a registry, but in reality it'll be hard coded. that is fine. The implementation choice of hard coding or else is = implementation choice. We shall still tell the implementors where to get = the right data. hence a registry.=20 the question at hand is the following: a) rely on redirect being implemented by all RIR and that they trust = themselves. If someone is not playing well the game (server down, wrong = redirection, bugs,...), then it falls apart. I don't think the IETF can = "ask/require" the RIR to do redirection between themselves. b) rely on matching using the IANA registry, but then have the = rir-redirection optional ( just great if done, but not mandatory).=20 I think b) is more reliable and also separate clearly the protocol part = and the operational part. let the operational part do their own stuff = (decide if they want to do nice redirect between themselves). Marc. >=20 > Regards, > John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY > "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly. From bje@apnic.net Sat Jul 27 07:58:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FEF521F9995 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 07:58:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.857 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.857 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, RELAY_IS_203=0.994] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id swn45KSCFsXP for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 07:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ia-mailgw.apnic.net (ia-mailgw.apnic.net [IPv6:2001:dd8:a:3::243]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 90EE021F999A for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 07:58:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apnic.net; s=c3po; h=received:received:from:to:cc:subject:thread-topic:thread-index:date: message-id:in-reply-to:accept-language:content-language:x-ms-has-attach: x-ms-tnef-correlator:x-originating-ip:content-type:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=/gPKYKf5sHuXL08NBZMwA0QlnyfBx97eBtBjvTAEUtY=; b=t0hZgj3cmb3ZH3eRtVH+/07kVyZ5gJpiNwrl5JnC+CnYdhVQfTSmFiIvFtuhuhf/s+tJa+gi2o4nX /ftulM+aRHR4NMfkbt2nHnQMwmayvrUmmMYSqnXCGYHd4yHeFX00V0dRbtvB3onXRRPRupJ6fUUq7g xA85QZ7IarV6AG6E= Received: from IAMDA1.org.apnic.net (unknown [203.119.93.247]) by ia-mailgw.apnic.net (Halon Mail Gateway) with ESMTP; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 00:58:22 +1000 (EST) Received: from NXMDA1.org.apnic.net ([fe80::c877:49c3:86f7:9d67]) by IAMDA1.org.apnic.net ([fe80::d35:7ac6:ff34:45a%19]) with mapi id 14.01.0421.002; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 00:58:22 +1000 From: Byron Ellacott To: Marc Blanchet , John R Levine Thread-Topic: [weirds] bootstrap slides Thread-Index: AQHOikcf8s4Brw0I7UiLcSJW/GowTJl3lZoAgAAvfoCAAAx6AIAABZIAgABBp4A= Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:58:21 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <92E7E25E-9AAE-481C-9FDC-06AB7999908F@viagenie.ca> Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [203.119.101.249] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 14:58:54 -0000 Hi Marc, On 27/07/13 3:03 PM, "Marc Blanchet" wrote: >Le 2013-07-27 =E0 13:43, "John R Levine" a =E9crit : > >>>> Looks OK, except that you left out the most likely numbers bootstrap, >>>> start at your local RIR and trust them to redirect. >>>=20 >>=20 >>> ok, will add. But at the same time, somewhere we need to list those >>>servers. Shall not be in an RFC. Then, it shall be an IANA registry. So >>> if it is an IANA registry, then why not then do a match using the >>>ranges and then you most likely go to the right server right away. >>=20 >> Because it's going to be configured one time when the lookup software >>is installed, by asking the person doing the installing where they are, >>or maybe a rough guess from the high bits of the local IP address, not >>done dynamically on every lookup. Given that there are only five RIRs, >>and there is approximately zero chance that there will ever be any more, >>there might nominally be a registry, but in reality it'll be hard coded. > >that is fine. The implementation choice of hard coding or else is >implementation choice. We shall still tell the implementors where to get >the right data. hence a registry. > >the question at hand is the following: >a) rely on redirect being implemented by all RIR and that they trust >themselves. If someone is not playing well the game (server down, wrong >redirection, bugs,...), then it falls apart. I don't think the IETF can >"ask/require" the RIR to do redirection between themselves. You need to trust the RIRs to redirect to each other. 140.83.0.0/16, for example, is in 140/8 that IANA has registered as LEGACY space on whois.arin.net, but 140.83/16 was transferred to APNIC in 2011. There are large tracts of IPv4 in the "swamp" of legacy where the exact disposition of each block is not recorded at the IANA level. You can see the full disposition of the entire internet number space on the NRO website: http://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/apnic-uploads/delegated-extended It is a significantly larger list than the IANA registries. You can head over to http://rdappilot.arin.net/ip/140.83.0.0/16 and be redirected to http://testwhois.apnic.net/ip/140.83.0.0/16 . >b) rely on matching using the IANA registry, but then have the >rir-redirection optional ( just great if done, but not mandatory). Redirection between RIRs is a critical goal for us, but I don't think the IETF can formalise it. Noting that the IANA registry is a useful starting point for selecting an RIR server should be sufficient. Byrom From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Sat Jul 27 08:02:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EB021F9B19 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:02:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.572 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.572 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r5TsExHFdU6l for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:02:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430A121F9B18 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 08:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6061B403D5; Sat, 27 Jul 2013 11:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 17:02:40 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Byron Ellacott X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: John R Levine , "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2013 15:02:49 -0000 Le 2013-07-27 =E0 16:58, Byron Ellacott a =E9crit : > Hi Marc, >=20 > On 27/07/13 3:03 PM, "Marc Blanchet" = wrote: >=20 >> Le 2013-07-27 =E0 13:43, "John R Levine" a =E9crit = : >>=20 >>>>> Looks OK, except that you left out the most likely numbers = bootstrap, >>>>> start at your local RIR and trust them to redirect. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> ok, will add. But at the same time, somewhere we need to list those >>>> servers. Shall not be in an RFC. Then, it shall be an IANA = registry. So >>>> if it is an IANA registry, then why not then do a match using the >>>> ranges and then you most likely go to the right server right away. >>>=20 >>> Because it's going to be configured one time when the lookup = software >>> is installed, by asking the person doing the installing where they = are, >>> or maybe a rough guess from the high bits of the local IP address, = not >>> done dynamically on every lookup. Given that there are only five = RIRs, >>> and there is approximately zero chance that there will ever be any = more, >>> there might nominally be a registry, but in reality it'll be hard = coded. >>=20 >> that is fine. The implementation choice of hard coding or else is >> implementation choice. We shall still tell the implementors where to = get >> the right data. hence a registry. >>=20 >> the question at hand is the following: >> a) rely on redirect being implemented by all RIR and that they trust >> themselves. If someone is not playing well the game (server down, = wrong >> redirection, bugs,...), then it falls apart. I don't think the IETF = can >> "ask/require" the RIR to do redirection between themselves. >=20 > You need to trust the RIRs to redirect to each other. I trust them, but my point was about how much IETF can say about it. > 140.83.0.0/16, for > example, is in 140/8 that IANA has registered as LEGACY space on > whois.arin.net, but 140.83/16 was transferred to APNIC in 2011. There = are > large tracts of IPv4 in the "swamp" of legacy where the exact = disposition > of each block is not recorded at the IANA level. let's forget Ipv4... just do Ipv6 ;-) > You can see the full > disposition of the entire internet number space on the NRO website: >=20 > = http://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/apnic-uploads/delegated-extended >=20 > It is a significantly larger list than the IANA registries. >=20 > You can head over to http://rdappilot.arin.net/ip/140.83.0.0/16 and be > redirected to http://testwhois.apnic.net/ip/140.83.0.0/16 . >=20 >=20 >> b) rely on matching using the IANA registry, but then have the >> rir-redirection optional ( just great if done, but not mandatory). >=20 > Redirection between RIRs is a critical goal for us, but I don't think = the > IETF can formalise it. that was my point. >=20 > Noting that the IANA registry is a useful starting point for selecting = an > RIR server should be sufficient. great. I agree. Marc. >=20 > Byrom From andy@arin.net Sun Jul 28 02:11:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A033E21F9D71 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 02:11:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.633, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eY1hXBPhUSpq for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 02:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.arin.net (smtp2.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA6B21F9D50 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 02:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id 8998B213691; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 05:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (chaxch05.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.94]) by smtp2.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7A3213649; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 05:11:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH05.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.94) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.342.3; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 05:10:58 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.18]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 05:10:57 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Byron Ellacott , Marc Blanchet , John R Levine Thread-Topic: [weirds] bootstrap slides Thread-Index: AQHOikcZpwkuZHd8qk6Q2k1OJuxZuZl4gEwAgAAvfoCAAAx5AIAABZIAgAAgI4CAAVLHgA== Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 09:10:57 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <6E4DEA9AAD017C4B99724805FF467E6A@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 09:11:28 -0000 On 7/27/13 4:58 PM, "Byron Ellacott" wrote: >You can head over to http://rdappilot.arin.net/ip/140.83.0.0/16 and be >redirected to http://testwhois.apnic.net/ip/140.83.0.0/16 . Correction, http://rdappilot.arin.net/restfulwhois/rdap/ip/140.83.0.0 $ nicinfo -V 140.83.0.0 # NicInfo v.1000.0.0-SNAPSHOT ## Using configuration found in /Users/anewton/.NicInfo ## Evicted 0 files from the cache ## Assuming query value is IP4ADDR ## Issuing GET for=20 http://rdappilot.arin.net/restfulwhois/rdap/ip/140.83.0.0 ## Issuing GET for http://testwhois.apnic.net/ip/140.83.0.0 =8A >Redirection between RIRs is a critical goal for us, but I don't think the >IETF can formalise it. I agree with this. In the whois world, not all the RIRs point to the other RIRs. Only some do it. And while in the RDAP world that might change I don't think the IETF can mandate it. >Noting that the IANA registry is a useful starting point for selecting an >RIR server should be sufficient. Agree. -andy From aservin@lacnic.net Sun Jul 28 02:15:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D2421F9D6F for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 02:15:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bvRTvlikZ39R for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 02:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B5821F9D66 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 02:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-15f2.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-15f2.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.21.242]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14A513084B8 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 06:14:46 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <51F4E11B.8030908@lacnic.net> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:15:07 +0200 From: Arturo Servin Organization: LACNIC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Subject: Re: [weirds] bootstrap slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 09:15:28 -0000 If we (the RIRs) do an agreement then we could document it in an informational RFC. This seems something of layer9 today but we could work out this. /as On 7/28/13 11:10 AM, Andy Newton wrote: >> Redirection between RIRs is a critical goal for us, but I don't think the >> >IETF can formalise it. > I agree with this. In the whois world, not all the RIRs point to the other > RIRs. Only some do it. And while in the RDAP world that might change I > don't think the IETF can mandate it. > From aservin@lacnic.net Tue Jul 30 07:33:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4784721F84BB for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:33:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jUn2eeBL20d3 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBEA21E80CB for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Arturos-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:df8:0:16:dc07:9710:b85d:1730]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51199308458; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:30:55 -0300 (UYT) Message-ID: <51F7CE30.6050606@lacnic.net> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:31:12 +0200 From: Arturo Servin Organization: LACNIC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds-interop@viagenie.ca, "weirds@ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: aservin@lacnic.net Subject: Re: [weirds] [weirds-interop] weirds implementation survey X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:33:26 -0000 Marc, Isn't it intended to weirds@ietf.org? Regards, as On 7/30/13 4:28 PM, Marc Blanchet wrote: > Hello, > during the weirds interop session saturday, a short survey was created and filled by the implementors. The following is a summary of the features that were found negative (not implemented, no plan to implement). > > Which leaves a question to the wg: Should some of these features be removed from the specs? Should some of these features be MAY instead of SHOULD or MUST? > > Regards, Marc. > =========== > > 1) Features _not_ implemented by _most_ implementations: > draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: > 5.4 lang > > draft-ietf-weirds-using-http > 5.2 302 Response with Location: > 5.2 303 Response with Location: > 5.2 307 Response with Location: > 5.5 429 Response > 5.6 Access-Control-Allow-Origin Header > 9.3 Return Content-language Header > > 2) Features _not_ implemented by _some_ implementations: > (some features here are not listed because they are specific for one kind of registry (i.e. addresses vs domains) > > draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query > 3.4 /nameserver/ > 3.4 /nameserver/ > 3.6 /help > > draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: > 5.3 remarks > 5.6 status > 5.7 port43 > 5.8 public id > 6.2.1 secureDNS dsData > 6.2.2 secureDNS keyData > > _______________________________________________ > weirds-interop mailing list > weirds-interop@viagenie.ca > https://www.viagenie.ca/mailman/listinfo/weirds-interop > From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Tue Jul 30 07:33:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609BC21F9AFE for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:33:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.581 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.581 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.018, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7k+f4JVE2T1n for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADA121F9D4C for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:32:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0E3B140428 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:32:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Marc Blanchet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:32:25 +0200 To: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [weirds] weirds implementation survey X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:33:43 -0000 Hello, during the weirds interop session saturday, a short survey was created = and filled by the implementors. The following is a summary of the = features that were found negative (not implemented, no plan to = implement).=20 Which leaves a question to the wg: Should some of these features be = removed from the specs? Should some of these features be MAY instead of = SHOULD or MUST? Regards, Marc. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 1) Features _not_ implemented by _most_ implementations: draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: 5.4 lang draft-ietf-weirds-using-http 5.2 302 Response with Location: 5.2 303 Response with Location: 5.2 307 Response with Location: 5.5 429 Response 5.6 Access-Control-Allow-Origin Header 9.3 Return Content-language Header 2) Features _not_ implemented by _some_ implementations: (some features here are not listed because they are specific = for one kind of registry (i.e. addresses vs domains) draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query 3.4 /nameserver/ 3.4 /nameserver/ 3.6 /help draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: 5.3 remarks 5.6 status 5.7 port43 5.8 public id 6.2.1 secureDNS dsData 6.2.2 secureDNS keyData _______________________________________________ weirds-interop mailing list weirds-interop@viagenie.ca https://www.viagenie.ca/mailman/listinfo/weirds-interop From shollenbeck@verisign.com Tue Jul 30 07:40:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDA0C11E81D6 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:40:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7QfJrsMEOo77 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:40:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og109.obsmtp.com (exprod6og109.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05BE21F9CE8 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:40:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob109.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUffQVgJ6ToCLHGl2QOoj92q23HEV32wu@postini.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 07:40:27 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.205]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6UEeJLN028593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:40:19 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:40:18 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Marc Blanchet , "weirds@ietf.org Group" Thread-Topic: [weirds] weirds implementation survey Thread-Index: AQHOjTHWlzY2aByLt0CmXOqyOLHoBpl9Sjww Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:40:18 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F492258C5@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [weirds] weirds implementation survey X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:40:38 -0000 FWIW the features not implemented by Verisign are more "haven't gotten to i= t yet" than "no plan to implement". We will probably make more progress in = the coming weeks. I need to talk to Dow to figure out what we can do. Scott > -----Original Message----- > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Marc Blanchet > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:32 AM > To: weirds@ietf.org Group > Subject: [weirds] weirds implementation survey >=20 > Hello, > during the weirds interop session saturday, a short survey was created > and filled by the implementors. The following is a summary of the > features that were found negative (not implemented, no plan to > implement). >=20 > Which leaves a question to the wg: Should some of these features be > removed from the specs? Should some of these features be MAY instead of > SHOULD or MUST? >=20 > Regards, Marc. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > 1) Features _not_ implemented by _most_ implementations: > draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: > 5.4 lang >=20 > draft-ietf-weirds-using-http > 5.2 302 Response with Location: > 5.2 303 Response with Location: > 5.2 307 Response with Location: > 5.5 429 Response > 5.6 Access-Control-Allow-Origin Header > 9.3 Return Content-language Header >=20 > 2) Features _not_ implemented by _some_ implementations: > (some features here are not listed because they are specific > for one kind of registry (i.e. addresses vs domains) >=20 > draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query > 3.4 /nameserver/ > 3.4 /nameserver/ > 3.6 /help >=20 > draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: > 5.3 remarks > 5.6 status > 5.7 port43 > 5.8 public id > 6.2.1 secureDNS dsData > 6.2.2 secureDNS keyData >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds-interop mailing list > weirds-interop@viagenie.ca > https://www.viagenie.ca/mailman/listinfo/weirds-interop > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Tue Jul 30 08:43:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6EC621E80D2 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:43:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.583 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.583 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.016, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c1pAwlz10kiT for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A1221E80B7 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 08:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 07CD5403D7; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 11:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F492258C5@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 17:43:04 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <96D8C66A-3090-4B9C-8A85-3C3BEAFE2F56@viagenie.ca> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F492258C5@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] weirds implementation survey X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 15:43:07 -0000 let's state that this survey is: - a snapshot of some implementations - a way to give feedback to wg and doc authors about features that might = need being discussed/revisited/considered. no binding. Marc. Le 2013-07-30 =E0 16:40, "Hollenbeck, Scott" = a =E9crit : > FWIW the features not implemented by Verisign are more "haven't gotten = to it yet" than "no plan to implement". We will probably make more = progress in the coming weeks. I need to talk to Dow to figure out what = we can do. >=20 > Scott >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf Of Marc Blanchet >> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:32 AM >> To: weirds@ietf.org Group >> Subject: [weirds] weirds implementation survey >>=20 >> Hello, >> during the weirds interop session saturday, a short survey was = created >> and filled by the implementors. The following is a summary of the >> features that were found negative (not implemented, no plan to >> implement). >>=20 >> Which leaves a question to the wg: Should some of these features be >> removed from the specs? Should some of these features be MAY instead = of >> SHOULD or MUST? >>=20 >> Regards, Marc. >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>=20 >> 1) Features _not_ implemented by _most_ implementations: >> draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: >> 5.4 lang >>=20 >> draft-ietf-weirds-using-http >> 5.2 302 Response with Location: >> 5.2 303 Response with Location: >> 5.2 307 Response with Location: >> 5.5 429 Response >> 5.6 Access-Control-Allow-Origin Header >> 9.3 Return Content-language Header >>=20 >> 2) Features _not_ implemented by _some_ implementations: >> (some features here are not listed because they are specific >> for one kind of registry (i.e. addresses vs domains) >>=20 >> draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query >> 3.4 /nameserver/ >> 3.4 /nameserver/ >> 3.6 /help >>=20 >> draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: >> 5.3 remarks >> 5.6 status >> 5.7 port43 >> 5.8 public id >> 6.2.1 secureDNS dsData >> 6.2.2 secureDNS keyData >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds-interop mailing list >> weirds-interop@viagenie.ca >> https://www.viagenie.ca/mailman/listinfo/weirds-interop >> _______________________________________________ >> weirds mailing list >> weirds@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From superuser@gmail.com Tue Jul 30 09:21:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8CC221F9F5F for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:21:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.183 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.183 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.417, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d52LRmb6Nz6S for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22c.google.com (mail-wi0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1E6821F9F3A for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:20:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f172.google.com with SMTP id hj13so2350389wib.11 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:20:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=XA1Nrl7/Z2oLAmAIVABiRwatcsIcZDAxdN1mZUeoaIA=; b=Aeqs1pQ0RBTMsl6ZBWRJBSqJGYNPR9y1U4pNFXDLjUqiY0BIwqzFn+SpfDiWg+ZXm1 x3v0kbPJ+ms+6d+ENtyEb/yY5aE99aLn8SEJxf5keIQpjeDU7ywCVmiHxKSwswrOEHHo 2ctqM6yrXM+1BFmLeywcYauiVAjpJhsjdno7J2zt390w6pI1YAiwOr6+MaDfQsqW0b6I 2ynbHIzxlnlOrBGHrTfgxjzPIsv7y7m7FH9u0XLoIWFvzF4mKyCrPQF+w1BSLSWX+8o1 5lgjGRNVglxkhsxkttalIfZH2PCjHH6uSh6pLFxeIRV2F1P+5Wxjk5ois4ORjR49i3mo CWCg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.3.78 with SMTP id a14mr13054707wja.77.1375201249705; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.125.36 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:20:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F492258C5@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F492258C5@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:20:49 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b343d6afbc38004e2bcfd68 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org Group" Subject: Re: [weirds] weirds implementation survey X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:21:02 -0000 --047d7b343d6afbc38004e2bcfd68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks for the report and to everyone that participated. It's great to see all this initiative without the co-chairs even asking. I suspect I know the answer to this, but do you folks plan on doing this again for Vancouver? On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > FWIW the features not implemented by Verisign are more "haven't gotten to > it yet" than "no plan to implement". We will probably make more progress in > the coming weeks. I need to talk to Dow to figure out what we can do. > > Scott > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On > > Behalf Of Marc Blanchet > > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:32 AM > > To: weirds@ietf.org Group > > Subject: [weirds] weirds implementation survey > > > > Hello, > > during the weirds interop session saturday, a short survey was created > > and filled by the implementors. The following is a summary of the > > features that were found negative (not implemented, no plan to > > implement). > > > > Which leaves a question to the wg: Should some of these features be > > removed from the specs? Should some of these features be MAY instead of > > SHOULD or MUST? > > > > Regards, Marc. > > =========== > > > > 1) Features _not_ implemented by _most_ implementations: > > draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: > > 5.4 lang > > > > draft-ietf-weirds-using-http > > 5.2 302 Response with Location: > > 5.2 303 Response with Location: > > 5.2 307 Response with Location: > > 5.5 429 Response > > 5.6 Access-Control-Allow-Origin Header > > 9.3 Return Content-language Header > > > > 2) Features _not_ implemented by _some_ implementations: > > (some features here are not listed because they are specific > > for one kind of registry (i.e. addresses vs domains) > > > > draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query > > 3.4 /nameserver/ > > 3.4 /nameserver/ > > 3.6 /help > > > > draft-ietf-weirds-json-response: > > 5.3 remarks > > 5.6 status > > 5.7 port43 > > 5.8 public id > > 6.2.1 secureDNS dsData > > 6.2.2 secureDNS keyData > > > > _______________________________________________ > > weirds-interop mailing list > > weirds-interop@viagenie.ca > > https://www.viagenie.ca/mailman/listinfo/weirds-interop > > _______________________________________________ > > weirds mailing list > > weirds@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > --047d7b343d6afbc38004e2bcfd68 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the report and to everyone that participated.= =A0 It's great to see all this initiative without the co-chairs even as= king.

I suspect I know the answer to this, but do you folks plan on = doing this again for Vancouver?


On Tue,= Jul 30, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Hollenbeck, Scott <shollenbeck@verisign= .com> wrote:
FWIW the features not implemented by Verisig= n are more "haven't gotten to it yet" than "no plan to i= mplement". We will probably make more progress in the coming weeks. I = need to talk to Dow to figure out what we can do.

Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: weirds-bounces@ietf.o= rg [mailto:weirds-bounces@ie= tf.org] On
> Behalf Of Marc Blanchet
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:32 AM
> To: weirds@ietf.org Group
> Subject: [weirds] weirds implementation survey
>
> Hello,
> during the weirds interop session saturday, a short survey was created=
> and filled by the implementors. The following is a summary of the
> features that were found negative (not implemented, no plan to
> implement).
>
> Which leaves a question to the wg: Should some of these features be > removed from the specs? Should some of these features be MAY instead o= f
> SHOULD or MUST?
>
> Regards, Marc.
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> 1) Features _not_ implemented by _most_ implementations:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 draft-ietf-weirds-json-response:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.4 lang
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 draft-ietf-weirds-using-http
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.2 302 Response with Location:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.2 303 Response with Location:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.2 307 Response with Location:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.5 429 Response
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.6 Access-Control-Allow-Origin Header
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A09.3 Return Content-language Header
>
> 2) Features _not_ implemented by _some_ implementations:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 (some features here are not listed because they ar= e specific
> for one kind of registry (i.e. addresses vs domains)
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 draft-ietf-weirds-rdap-query
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A03.4 /nameserver/<idn a-label>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A03.4 /nameserver/<idn u-label>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A03.6 /help
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 draft-ietf-weirds-json-response:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.3 remarks
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.6 status
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 5.7 port43
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A05.8 public id
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A06.2.1 secureDNS dsData
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A06.2.2 secureDNS keyData
>
> _______________________________________________
> weirds-interop mailing list
> weirds-interop@viagenie.= ca
> https://www.viagenie.ca/mailman/listinfo/weirds-interop=
> _______________________________________________
> weirds mailing list
> weirds@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds
_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds

--047d7b343d6afbc38004e2bcfd68-- From simon.perreault@viagenie.ca Tue Jul 30 09:25:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43FBB21E8063 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:25:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8BtWLG-AD2AK for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD0721F9CC0 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:25:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from porto.nomis80.org (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:230:2001::1000]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7A7D140428 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <51F7E909.1000505@viagenie.ca> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 18:25:45 +0200 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130625 Thunderbird/17.0.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: weirds@ietf.org References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F492258C5@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] weirds implementation survey X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:25:50 -0000 Le 2013-07-30 18:20, Murray S. Kucherawy a écrit : > I suspect I know the answer to this, but do you folks plan on doing this > again for Vancouver? Yes! And next time we can focus on things higher up in the stack: IDN support, jCard conformance, etc. Simon -- DTN made easy, lean, and smart --> http://postellation.viagenie.ca NAT64/DNS64 open-source --> http://ecdysis.viagenie.ca STUN/TURN server --> http://numb.viagenie.ca From nkong@cnnic.cn Tue Jul 30 14:41:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2107421E80AF for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:41:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=x tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uT6F5P5BfBb5 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:41:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AC4B021E80AD for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO [192.168.5.10]) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:38:15 +0800 From: Ning Kong Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_42C62FEA-F0E6-47FE-98F6-53B92DBBC649" Message-Id: <95BAAF41-BBF0-4F02-96A7-2B1D8FDDF371@cnnic.cn> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 23:36:12 +0200 To: "weirds@ietf.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:41:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_42C62FEA-F0E6-47FE-98F6-53B92DBBC649 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi folks, I just made the search slides for our F2F meeting based on the feedback = from the mailing list. I hope we can get a consensus on #3 on the search = slot. Because we only have 10 minutes for the search topic, so I'm not going = to discuss all the details of #2. Any comments on the slides? 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<95BAAF41-BBF0-4F02-96A7-2B1D8FDDF371@cnnic.cn> References: <95BAAF41-BBF0-4F02-96A7-2B1D8FDDF371@cnnic.cn> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:40:41 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Ning Kong Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7ba975e6b4b68804e2c9d741 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 07:40:44 -0000 --047d7ba975e6b4b68804e2c9d741 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Ning, I agree with your assessment of what you have as Question #1. I suggest dropping Question #1 from slide 2, and dropping slide 3 altogether, in the interests of time compression. Just to get my opinions out there on your remaining questions, hoping to spark commentary tomorrow: #2.1: I prefer either (a) selecting as searchable those properties that are searchable now, or those that participants pledge to support, or (b) your solution 2, where one could just try querying on any field and having some specific response defined that means "you can't search on that". I'm guessing both are fairly straightforward in terms of specification and implementation for both clients and servers. #2.2: I don't believe I've heard of current or planned support for anything but prefix matching, but I'm happy to be corrected. I agree that paging and ordering are open questions, and I believe that we should go with what people have pledged to implement in co-ordination with what's currently supported. #2.3: Don't care. Somebody pick one. #2.4: I agree this part needs to be decided, but I have a feeling it's a bigger issue than we'll have time for on Thursday. This probably should be developed on the list. #3: The basic search function should be merged into the query and response documents. Advanced search can live separately, after the basic work is done, if the WG has the energy and desire to pursue it. -MSK On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Ning Kong wrote: > > Hi folks, > > I just made the search slides for our F2F meeting based on the feedback > from the mailing list. I hope we can get a consensus on #3 on the search > slot. > > Because we only have 10 minutes for the search topic, so I'm not going to > discuss all the details of #2. > > Any comments on the slides? > > Cheers, > Ning > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > > --047d7ba975e6b4b68804e2c9d741 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ning,

<co-chair>
I agree= with your assessment of what you have as Question #1.=A0 I suggest droppin= g Question #1 from slide 2, and dropping slide 3 altogether, in the interes= ts of time compression.
</co-chair>

<participant>
Just= to get my opinions out there on your remaining questions, hoping to spark = commentary tomorrow:

#2.1: I prefer either (a) selecting = as searchable those properties that are searchable now, or those that parti= cipants pledge to support, or (b) your solution 2, where one could just try= querying on any field and having some specific response defined that means= "you can't search on that".=A0 I'm guessing both are fai= rly straightforward in terms of specification and implementation for both c= lients and servers.

#2.2: I don't believe I've heard of current or plann= ed support for anything but prefix matching, but I'm happy to be correc= ted.=A0 I agree that paging and ordering are open questions, and I believe = that we should go with what people have pledged to implement in co-ordinati= on with what's currently supported.

#2.3: Don't care.=A0 Somebody pick one.

#2.4: I agree this part needs to be decided, but I have a feeling it'= s a bigger issue than we'll have time for on Thursday.=A0 This probably= should be developed on the list.

#3: The basic search function should be merged into the quer= y and response documents.=A0 Advanced search can live separately, after the= basic work is done, if the WG has the energy and desire to pursue it.
</participant>

-MSK


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:36 PM, Ning Kong <nkong@cnnic.c= n> wrote:

Hi folks,

I just made the search slides for our F2F meeting based on the feedback fro= m the mailing list. I hope we can get a consensus on #3 on the search slot.=

Because we only have 10 minutes for the search topic, so I'm not going = to discuss all the details of #2.

Any comments on the slides?

Cheers,
Ning
_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds


--047d7ba975e6b4b68804e2c9d741-- From andy@arin.net Wed Jul 31 01:25:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBC421F9339 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:25:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.925, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4M9cuEhZYZ48 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD37821F8F78 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id CCC52165226; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E443165204; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.342.3; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:24:17 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:24:16 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , Ning Kong Thread-Topic: [weirds] Search Slides Thread-Index: AQHOjW2GFG7dkGIEvUacqAs0SgDyOJl+qraAgAAttYA= Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:24:15 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE1E92D22708Candyarinnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:25:29 -0000 --_000_CE1E92D22708Candyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Absent from this slide deck are questions about Internationalization issues= and how to handle Unicode and IDN partial matching on characters that can = be combined. This is a big part of search and needs to be teased out. I'll throw in my $0.02 on the rest. Inline=85 From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" > Just to get my opinions out there on your remaining questions, hoping to sp= ark commentary tomorrow: #2.1: I prefer either (a) selecting as searchable those properties that are= searchable now, or those that participants pledge to support, or (b) your = solution 2, where one could just try querying on any field and having some = specific response defined that means "you can't search on that". I'm guess= ing both are fairly straightforward in terms of specification and implement= ation for both clients and servers. I don't think either a or b are mutually exclusive. I think it is best to d= efine what is in use today but with a mechanism that is extensible for the = fields we may want to add later. #2.2: I don't believe I've heard of current or planned support for anything= but prefix matching, but I'm happy to be corrected. I agree that paging a= nd ordering are open questions, and I believe that we should go with what p= eople have pledged to implement in co-ordination with what's currently supp= orted. I agree with the planned support for prefix matching. However, we should de= fine the syntax so that postfix and infix matching are reserved for future = definition. I consider paging and ordering to be advanced search features and they shou= ld be specified at a later date. #2.3: Don't care. Somebody pick one. I much prefer the targeted path approach vs the generic path approach. It m= akes the syntax simpler, and it will be easier to define which fields are v= alid for search upon which object classes. #2.4: I agree this part needs to be decided, but I have a feeling it's a bi= gger issue than we'll have time for on Thursday. This probably should be d= eveloped on the list. This goes along with 2.2. At present we only need to support a format for t= he simple functions so long as we have extensibility for the future enhance= d features. #3: The basic search function should be merged into the query and response = documents. Advanced search can live separately, after the basic work is do= ne, if the WG has the energy and desire to pursue it. I agree with this so long as we can come to agreement quickly on basic sear= ch. Otherwise it is holding up the work we have already done. -andy --_000_CE1E92D22708Candyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Absent from this slide deck are questions about Internationalization i= ssues and how to handle Unicode and IDN partial matching on characters that= can be combined. This is a big part of search and needs to be teased out.<= /div>

I'll throw in my $0.02 on the rest. Inline=85

From: "Murray S. Kucherawy&quo= t; <superuser@gmail.com>


Just to get my opinions out there on your remaining questions, hoping = to spark commentary tomorrow:

#2.1: I prefer either (a) selecting as searchable those properties tha= t are searchable now, or those that participants pledge to support, or (b) = your solution 2, where one could just try querying on any field and having = some specific response defined that means "you can't search on that".  I'm guessing both are fa= irly straightforward in terms of specification and implementation for both = clients and servers.

I don't think either a or b are mutually exclusive. I think it is best= to define what is in use today but with a mechanism that is extensible for= the fields we may want to add later.

#2.2: I don't believe I've heard of current or planned support for any= thing but prefix matching, but I'm happy to be corrected.  I agree tha= t paging and ordering are open questions, and I believe that we should go w= ith what people have pledged to implement in co-ordination with what's currently supported.

I agree with the planned support for prefix matching. However, we shou= ld define the syntax so that postfix and infix matching are reserved for fu= ture definition.

I consider paging and ordering to be advanced search features and they= should be specified at a later date.

#2.3: Don't care.  Somebody pick one.

I much prefer the targeted path approach vs the generic path approach.= It makes the syntax simpler, and it will be easier to define which fields = are valid for search upon which object classes.

#2.4: I agree this part needs to be decided, but I have a feeling it's= a bigger issue than we'll have time for on Thursday.  This probably s= hould be developed on the list.

This goes along with 2.2. At present we only need to support a format = for the simple functions so long as we have extensibility for the future en= hanced features.

#3: The basic search function should be merged into the query and resp= onse documents.  Advanced search can live separately, after the basic = work is done, if the WG has the energy and desire to pursue it.

I agree with this so long as we can come to agreement quickly on basic= search. Otherwise it is holding up the work we have already done.

-andy

--_000_CE1E92D22708Candyarinnet_-- From superuser@gmail.com Wed Jul 31 01:42:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5036521E8114 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:42:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.391 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.391 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.208, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AGCmUBqwmK78 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com (mail-wi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3698021F9BD3 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:35:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f179.google.com with SMTP id hr7so358125wib.0 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:34:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pf9o+YEJu/2p/9nCuvR0A7XH617VWMwjOe/ATSpDdOY=; b=hf94vTFiOJZnQsU2bRXkEIscT4SF6vDUGc8aIx8KESGIk5lJ7PXy1Spi5RpZWFZdOy MH6DXeN8tOzKpu5WcC37oWEMNL2Eyk2kFrvh4M6lKBqPJtgIh40jkp7A6KznshqsLCDo 23SQK61iSeDyUlUQh7uLvMf9Pn1LTjATf3SHghf2y6p4vteu044PlbiIk9kaviOrPPHq /w1wTyuNGcSLCFOSzemHkl9XEi1ecf2I+YwqELg8wxvcTiZX0MPVlrk9G6+2DlIoTAhx IqBZNjmY8c9/LBB8tRNaLZ8C8vt6/0360r9c5A+jU5a2iBPMjd1KglEkfkQ4mqG5qL+j PU6g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.3.78 with SMTP id a14mr15107040wja.77.1375259699069; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.125.36 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:34:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:34:58 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Andy Newton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b343d6ad6483304e2ca99aa Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:42:42 -0000 --047d7b343d6ad6483304e2ca99aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > > #3: The basic search function should be merged into the query and > response documents. Advanced search can live separately, after the basic > work is done, if the WG has the energy and desire to pursue it. > > > I agree with this so long as we can come to agreement quickly on basic > search. Otherwise it is holding up the work we have already done. > > > I'm not sure we should send up the query document without basic search in it, and then immediately issue a document describing basic search that amends query. I think it's pretty integral to an overall syntax specification. What do others think? --047d7b343d6ad6483304e2ca99aa Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --047d7b343d6ad6483304e2ca99aa-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Jul 31 01:47:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4359411E8176 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:47:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1rffjFzxjI0T for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og119.obsmtp.com (exprod6og119.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3DAC21E804C for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:39:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob119.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfjNIqmTQOqVhQETXdzY8WxGbD7PuCZ9@postini.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:39:00 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6V8cwqt011728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:38:58 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:38:58 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Current Search Functionality Thread-Index: Ac6NyWBzI4OxZm1cRhOxR9PW6eIZQQ== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:38:57 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226755@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Current Search Functionality X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:47:18 -0000 I'm a little bored with what's going on in this morning's oauth WG session = so I decided to do a little research on current search functionality for co= m, net, org, and biz. This is by no means intended to be a comprehensive su= rvey. com/net: offers lookup and search for domains, name servers, and registrars= by name. There's a limit of 50 results returned, with no paging or other m= ethod provided to get at whatever follows the first 50 results. The "." cha= racter is used to specify a search for anything matching a specific prefix.= For example, a domain search for "a." will match all domains that begin wi= th the letter "a". The "*" character can also be used for registrar name se= arches (but not domain names or name servers - go figure), but it's not doc= umented. (Personal note: I have no idea why the "." character is used; "*" = seems more intuitive to me. I need to ask the guy that maintains this softw= are...) org: Domain name lookup is available, but I can't find anything on the PIR = web site that describes if/how search functionality and name server/registr= ar lookup is available. A search for "a." returns an "Invalid Input!" respo= nse. A list of registrars is available via link from the WHOIS web page. biz: Similar to com/net, except that a maximum of 75 results will be return= ed. "*" is not supported. Scott From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Jul 31 01:55:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C91921F84F6 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:55:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.799 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.799 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zzzJeGdXCBxb for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og107.obsmtp.com (exprod6og107.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259D111E8179 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob107.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfjPG7OZ2qLiT/QlZyJ5JmSGEFF5DnVJ@postini.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:47:26 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.205]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6V8lNhO011969 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:47:23 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:47:22 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , Andy Newton Thread-Topic: [weirds] Search Slides Thread-Index: AQHOjcFG/N+7MSKkWkK5Y+Pv/Q4Sk5l+tjuAgAAC/gD//8ANMA== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:47:22 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226799@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226799BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:55:16 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:55:16 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226799BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: weirds-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Murray S. Kucherawy Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:35 AM To: Andy Newton Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Andy Newton > wrote: #3: The basic search function should be merged into the query and response = documents. Advanced search can live separately, after the basic work is do= ne, if the WG has the energy and desire to pursue it. I agree with this so long as we can come to agreement quickly on basic sear= ch. Otherwise it is holding up the work we have already done. I'm not sure we should send up the query document without basic search in i= t, and then immediately issue a document describing basic search that amend= s query. I think it's pretty integral to an overall syntax specification. What do others think? I tend to agree. Scott --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226799BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: weirds-b= ounces@ietf.org [mailto:weirds-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Murray S. Kucherawy
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:35 AM
To: Andy Newton
Cc: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides

 

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Andy Newton <andy@arin.net> wrot= e:

 

#3: The basic search function should be= merged into the query and response documents.  Advanced search can li= ve separately, after the basic work is done, if the WG has the energy and desire to pursue it.

 

I agree with this so long as we can com= e to agreement quickly on basic search. Otherwise it is holding up the work= we have already done.

 

 

I'm not sure we shoul= d send up the query document without basic search in it, and then immediate= ly issue a document describing basic search that amends query.  I thin= k it's pretty integral to an overall syntax specification.

What do others think?

 

I tend to agree.

 

Scott

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226799BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From andy@arin.net Wed Jul 31 02:07:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF8021F9A5F for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:07:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.338 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.338 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.740, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s5SvXw26QQTy for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:07:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC4E11E80F4 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 01:54:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id E9752165225; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3748216521A; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.342.3; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:54:22 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:54:21 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" , "Murray S. Kucherawy" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Search Slides Thread-Index: AQHOjcFGFG7dkGIEvUacqAs0SgDyOJl+tjuAgAAC/gD//8ANMIAAZueA Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:54:19 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226799@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE1E9C98270B9andyarinnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:07:58 -0000 --_000_CE1E9C98270B9andyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: , Scott Hollenbeck > Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:47 AM To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" >= , Andrew Newton > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: RE: [weirds] Search Slides I'm not sure we should send up the query document without basic search in i= t, and then immediately issue a document describing basic search that amend= s query. I think it's pretty integral to an overall syntax specification. What do others think? I tend to agree. It extends the query syntax but does not amend it. And extensions to the qu= ery syntax are not only probable but intentional. If we are sending up the = query doc as the final word on RDAP query syntax, then we have a much large= r issue. -andy --_000_CE1E9C98270B9andyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <428E28CDDEF73943B857268ABA0F6107@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: <Hollenbeck>, Scott Hol= lenbeck <shollenbeck@verisig= n.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:4= 7 AM
To: "Murray S. Kucherawy"= <superuser@gmail.com>, An= drew Newton <andy@arin.net>
Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" <= weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [weirds] Search Slides=

I'm not sure we should send up the query document without b= asic search in it, and then immediately issue a document describing basic s= earch that amends query.  I think it's pretty integral to an overall syntax specification.

What do others think?

 

I tend to agree.

It extends the query syntax but does not amend it. And extensions to t= he query syntax are not only probable but intentional. If we are sending up= the query doc as the final word on RDAP query syntax, then we have a much = larger issue.

-andy
--_000_CE1E9C98270B9andyarinnet_-- From superuser@gmail.com Wed Jul 31 02:10:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B685221F9DAB for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:10:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZYVY+gnQjOTf for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x233.google.com (mail-wg0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7C621F9B11 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:02:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id a12so356790wgh.30 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:02:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=+tHkDvbktUl4ithcoehEc7t4d+k4Tq8ZRHVMKqlNI/o=; b=z7Fx16BMcfdyinvhb4U25XIMupPxANVUzqHL8QOwAzo0sLTxE1qbyuArPtzDReCb/j SiDljvTyXUGXrAgxuJZfH5AM41HcVTTE7BNbwMa8MTCCNLUOYif3TYIiYThVgw8ZbgRA m4W2EKrdbY9gu0hW6HUnM/TsOz/k72KfgjqRyOL0v4WB4UiN56qROWmo2ABByIbBx8r4 5L5Gx3UOICanjMK2ZoQAoIfqAPTCs1w6qYZG9WV9k8x4stcIGa+lbkVyi0RNHz59LcsB j0S5fxFue1cxFVUH8xdECiupAUdEKJwWcv3X3KCrVySUnVhSdl/X3mw9UslFxPSLJSze VoAQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.48.116 with SMTP id k20mr50160976wjn.23.1375261329896; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.125.36 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:02:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226799@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:02:09 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" To: Andy Newton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7ba975e60abbe804e2cafbbe Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:10:02 -0000 --047d7ba975e60abbe804e2cafbbe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Andy Newton wrote: > From: , Scott Hollenbeck > Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:47 AM > To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" , Andrew Newton < > andy@arin.net> > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: RE: [weirds] Search Slides > > I'm not sure we should send up the query document without basic > search in it, and then immediately issue a document describing basic search > that amends query. I think it's pretty integral to an overall syntax > specification. > > **** > > What do others think? **** > > ** ** > > I tend to agree. > > > It extends the query syntax but does not amend it. And extensions to the > query syntax are not only probable but intentional. If we are sending up > the query doc as the final word on RDAP query syntax, then we have a much > larger issue. > > -andy > I realize it's an extension to something extensible (and something that's technically overdue, though that's not a major point). That's actually an attractive aspect to separating them: It becomes an exemplar of how to extend the basic query document. However, the more important question to me is really whether the work to extend rdap-query to add basic search is so big as to be a setback on the order of months. I don't believe it is, but I also realize I say that as one of the people not doing the editing work. :-) Also, there's a real possibility that if the query document goes out with not even a hint of search, then that will be the common implementation. This is especially true if, say, ICANN points only to the query document in its own materials. If we want to make sure search is at least visible as an option to new implementers, hooking it into the base specification is an important consideration. -MSK, participatin' --047d7ba975e60abbe804e2cafbbe Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Andy Newton <andy@arin.net<= /a>> wrote:
From: <Hollenbeck>, Scott Hol= lenbeck <s= hollenbeck@verisign.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:4= 7 AM
To: "Murray S. Kucherawy"= <superuser@gma= il.com>, Andrew Newton <andy@arin.net>
Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" <weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [weirds] Search Slides=

I'm not sure we should send up the query document without bas= ic search in it, and then immediately issue a document describing basic sea= rch that amends query.=A0 I think it's pretty integral to an overall syntax specification.

What do others think?

=A0

I tend to agree.


It extends the query syntax but does not amend it. And extensions to t= he query syntax are not only probable but intentional. If we are sending up= the query doc as the final word on RDAP query syntax, then we have a much = larger issue.

-andy

I realize it's = an extension to something extensible (and something that's technically = overdue, though that's not a major point).=A0 That's actually an at= tractive aspect to separating them: It becomes an exemplar of how to extend= the basic query document.=A0 However, the more important question to me is= really whether the work to extend rdap-query to add basic search is so big= as to be a setback on the order of months.=A0 I don't believe it is, b= ut I also realize I say that as one of the people not doing the editing wor= k.=A0 :-)

Also, there's a real possibility t= hat if the query document goes out with not even a hint of search, then tha= t will be the common implementation.=A0 This is especially true if, say, IC= ANN points only to the query document in its own materials.=A0 If we want t= o make sure search is at least visible as an option to new implementers, ho= oking it into the base specification is an important consideration.

-MSK, participatin'
--047d7ba975e60abbe804e2cafbbe-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Jul 31 02:23:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84FAE21F873C for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:23:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jj0A0ApRdDxL for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og104.obsmtp.com (exprod6og104.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.187]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA6D21F9D0E for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:18:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob104.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfjWYJpqp5hXvw4wtHhNDpwlr4bkeZaZ@postini.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:18:28 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.206]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6V9IKB2013087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:18:21 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas02.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:18:20 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: Andy Newton , "Murray S. Kucherawy" Thread-Topic: [weirds] Search Slides Thread-Index: AQHOjcFG/N+7MSKkWkK5Y+Pv/Q4Sk5l+tjuAgAAC/gD//8ANMIAARVuA//++ddA= Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:18:19 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226813@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226799@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226813BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:23:12 -0000 --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226813BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Andy Newton [mailto:andy@arin.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:54 AM To: Hollenbeck, Scott; Murray S. Kucherawy Cc: weirds@ietf.org Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides From: , Scott Hollenbeck > Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:47 AM To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" >= , Andrew Newton > Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: RE: [weirds] Search Slides I'm not sure we should send up the query document without basic search in i= t, and then immediately issue a document describing basic search that amend= s query. I think it's pretty integral to an overall syntax specification. What do others think? I tend to agree. It extends the query syntax but does not amend it. And extensions to the qu= ery syntax are not only probable but intentional. If we are sending up the = query doc as the final word on RDAP query syntax, then we have a much large= r issue. Also agreed (sorry, I missed Murray's use of "amends"). We need to agree on= where the line for the core minimum exists. I'd be OK with excluding simpl= e search from rdap-query if we can agree on another way to document it. Scott --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226813BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: Andy New= ton [mailto:andy@arin.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:54 AM
To: Hollenbeck, Scott; Murray S. Kucherawy
Cc: weirds@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides

 

From: <Hollenbeck>, Scott Hollenbeck &l= t;shollenbeck@verisign.com&= gt;
Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:47 AM
To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>, Andrew Newton <andy@arin.net>
Cc: "weirds@ietf.org&quo= t; <weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [weirds] Search Slides

 

I'm not sure we should send= up the query document without basic search in it, and then immediately iss= ue a document describing basic search that amends query.  I think it's pretty integral to an overall syntax specification.

What do others think?

 

I tend to agree.

 

It extends the query syntax= but does not amend it. And extensions to the query syntax are not only pro= bable but intentional. If we are sending up the query doc as the final word on RDAP query syntax, then we have a much larger issue.<= o:p>

 

Also agreed (sorry, I mis= sed Murray’s use of “amends”). We need to agree on where = the line for the core minimum exists. I’d be OK with excluding simple= search from rdap-query if we can agree on another way to document it.<= /span>

 

Scott

--_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226813BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Jul 31 02:24:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00BB921F9B58 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:24:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.742 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.742 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.143, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HbPvCYIg17lo for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og118.obsmtp.com (exprod6og118.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2816221F8C9D for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:23:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from peregrine.verisign.com ([216.168.239.74]) (using TLSv1) by exprod6ob118.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUfjXgDHzZCkgdJz0vbsfsBNJC9QeZ8zN@postini.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:23:13 PDT Received: from brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com (brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com [10.173.152.205]) by peregrine.verisign.com (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r6V9NCZl013234 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:23:12 -0400 Received: from BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) by brn1wnexcas01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:23:11 -0400 From: "Hollenbeck, Scott" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Queries and Authentication Thread-Index: Ac6Nz5Dvz0dT2R3PR9O2tJg41uFlYQ== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:23:11 +0000 Message-ID: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226827@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.173.152.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [weirds] Queries and Authentication X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:24:54 -0000 A question came up during Saturday's interop event that requires some discu= ssion within the WG: if we have resources that can be accessed by both auth= enticated an unauthenticated clients and we assume that the returned result= s may differ depending on authentication status, do we need distinct querie= s to let the server know when it should return a 401 in response to a GET? = The general feel of those in the room was "yes". A possibility using a domain name example: domain/example.com?auth=3D1 (or similar with a query parameter) We could also do something like this: domain/example.com/auth though some might argue that this is a different resource. Thoughts? Scott From marc.blanchet@viagenie.ca Wed Jul 31 02:31:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFFE821F9D96 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:31:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OtdpIZ1yxJeo for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8A3021F8947 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 02:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h195.viagenie.ca (h195.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.195]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DD0CE403CF; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226827@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:31:05 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226827@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Queries and Authentication X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:31:11 -0000 Le 2013-07-31 =E0 11:23, "Hollenbeck, Scott" = a =E9crit : > A question came up during Saturday's interop event that requires some = discussion within the WG: if we have resources that can be accessed by = both authenticated an unauthenticated clients and we assume that the = returned results may differ depending on authentication status, do we = need distinct queries to let the server know when it should return a 401 = in response to a GET? The general feel of those in the room was "yes". my take is that this is a "cache" related issue (different content from = the same url) and we shall apply cache related techniques (such as don't = cache Http headers or else) instead of going around the problem. moreover, the parameter semantics would need to be defined, and one has = multiple level of authorization and authentication, it becomes pretty = specific of the rdap server, while everything else we have been defining = has been generic.=20 So I think we should be looking into the right "don't cache" mechanism. =20= Marc. >=20 > A possibility using a domain name example: >=20 > domain/example.com?auth=3D1 (or similar with a query parameter) >=20 > We could also do something like this: >=20 > domain/example.com/auth >=20 > though some might argue that this is a different resource. >=20 > Thoughts? >=20 > Scott >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds From nkong@cnnic.cn Wed Jul 31 05:01:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B030421F9A8C for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:01:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mrB8vnbrzY6k for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2DFF221F8E70 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:00:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO dhcp-16eb.meeting.ietf.org) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:00:15 +0800 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6B552A02-666C-428F-A9A4-2FFFB8938952" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ning Kong In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 14:00:11 +0200 Message-Id: References: <95BAAF41-BBF0-4F02-96A7-2B1D8FDDF371@cnnic.cn> To: Murray S. Kucherawy X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:01:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6B552A02-666C-428F-A9A4-2FFFB8938952 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Please find the modified version based on Murray's comments. Ning > Hi Ning, >=20 > > I agree with your assessment of what you have as Question #1. I = suggest dropping Question #1 from slide 2, and dropping slide 3 = altogether, in the interests of time compression. > >=20 > > Just to get my opinions out there on your remaining questions, hoping = to spark commentary tomorrow: >=20 > #2.1: I prefer either (a) selecting as searchable those properties = that are searchable now, or those that participants pledge to support, = or (b) your solution 2, where one could just try querying on any field = and having some specific response defined that means "you can't search = on that". I'm guessing both are fairly straightforward in terms of = specification and implementation for both clients and servers. >=20 > #2.2: I don't believe I've heard of current or planned support for = anything but prefix matching, but I'm happy to be corrected. I agree = that paging and ordering are open questions, and I believe that we = should go with what people have pledged to implement in co-ordination = with what's currently supported. >=20 > #2.3: Don't care. Somebody pick one. >=20 > #2.4: I agree this part needs to be decided, but I have a feeling it's = a bigger issue than we'll have time for on Thursday. This probably = should be developed on the list. >=20 > #3: The basic search function should be merged into the query and = response documents. Advanced search can live separately, after the = basic work is done, if the WG has the energy and desire to pursue it. > >=20 > -MSK --Apple-Mail=_6B552A02-666C-428F-A9A4-2FFFB8938952 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP - 01.pdf" Content-Type: application/pdf; x-unix-mode=0644; name="Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP - 01.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 JVBERi0xLjMKJcTl8uXrp/Og0MTGCjQgMCBvYmoKPDwgL0xlbmd0aCA1IDAgUiAvRmlsdGVyIC9G bGF0ZURlY29kZSA+PgpzdHJlYW0KeAGNU9tu1DAQffdXTKEtSWG9vjsuvVBQVYm3SpZ4oDxFVAh1 kZb9f4ljx3a2G1Q1eZjxeK5njrd0T1sSJLjAp7QydpDkZeABH1kj6O9P+kZ/aP1lJ2nckcz/bkSQ 1cVt0yJYsz01W0muhQ960PTUys2WX/R4liqoVAHd4N+NbItSSZXkJJe5Ie08l97SuKHPkYzJ9xDK c+T2gVY4xA2tY0QIIuMjfafuqGcrgXP3picohrq3PdqCPK6Gk6zA5TTdQL6rN9X1oZtcWPfQV+ez rOi9PNWLupZx6VSuWPf+w2GVFrXKN3Zula9Lz6J02GJPevaD4le6jXmdS9Sk/S9qUg88GGmeo8Yq ajJ3oPagaGjVFl5CAl1NoLc8DYg6SRtW6VrLlCFtT/NMiXxsjxrg7KuHNDZwYQfXhrxT04QXYLy+ 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAA6D21F9CDF for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:19:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.818 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.818 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.381, BAYES_00=-2.599, HABEAS_ACCREDITED_SOI=-4.3, RCVD_IN_BSP_TRUSTED=-4.3, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9vinmDztKjGD for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472AB21F9D55 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 33356 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2013 12:18:56 -0000 Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 31 Jul 2013 12:18:56 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51f900b0.xn--3zv.k1307; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=8xVNUa5IqsiH5nmnd52NeWuPOle9/bXopJg0jiwtzmo=; b=Cp5Ini8Kl6F1AG/2CvX1umjmrE7RTPMBT8xGMO9u/xJO1fmwKHpz/437Lim2ZrlxpwwDiEXKnMc0i5vjiNrcQESwrbOpfTHZRmcrCyUSUXarv3w3uXYKxZYTW5ttEO1dlVNVtqrQxRQDMnB4kKW5sWr5PVha0xu08NETGuYSsu/2/sEv3a7VaJy5dwMc0ugF0bGH4lt+rG1UBaePDZJ2YV0a1HLCO/+s8B+BHAK7idFn77H2pUGMKTKtQeiwwxYd DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=51f900b0.xn--3zv.k1307; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=8xVNUa5IqsiH5nmnd52NeWuPOle9/bXopJg0jiwtzmo=; b=jsEFtVHkt12TF0nt3HiptyoGBeykjSmNSgIT6U88/58YbwoOWNzM+C4Q0WAkZWUX99XYnqqd0i5da0YTFs2a6TLAgfwZVyHPDVJXQfYkguZWTgxo+zxW4WFinGaFb/5GdupHZedRZ5p7zApj8S+qxQch3MPC0eqQEAytg+EBQHYQt7jV+T1a2QkYKxMGdCbyBwbWERetSSYBy07rovnzbskeib/vF765/f4ZPC2gFkJFVzlAJFCZJn8nvztB4/SW Date: 31 Jul 2013 12:18:34 -0000 Message-ID: <20130731121834.2761.qmail@joyce.lan> From: "John Levine" To: weirds@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226755@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Organization: X-Headerized: yes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [weirds] Current Search Functionality X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:19:04 -0000 >org: Domain name lookup is available, but I can't find anything on the >PIR web site that describes if/how search functionality and name >server/registrar lookup is available. A search for "a." returns an >"Invalid Input!" response. A list of registrars is available via link >from the WHOIS web page. The wildcard character is % rather than *, limit is 50 answers. A _ matches one character at the end of a name. You can also match hosts and contacts. Send "help" to get surprisingly helpful help text. You $ whois -h whois.publicinterestregistry.net abcd%.org [ boilerplate here ] Domain ID:D165691150-LROR Domain Name:ABCD-69.ORG Domain ID:D154485720-LROR Domain Name:ABCD-974.ORG Domain ID:D160653658-LROR Domain Name:ABCD-APAC.ORG etc. From nkong@cnnic.cn Wed Jul 31 05:38:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B273121F99BB for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:38:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hT329u05Duaz for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3181721F9AE3 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO dhcp-16eb.meeting.ietf.org) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:35:56 +0800 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_67666C49-C135-404A-9FDB-1CC4A9D604C6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ning Kong In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 14:35:49 +0200 Message-Id: References: To: Andy Newton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:38:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_67666C49-C135-404A-9FDB-1CC4A9D604C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Andy, > Absent from this slide deck are questions about Internationalization = issues and how to handle Unicode and IDN partial matching on characters = that can be combined. This is a big part of search and needs to be = teased out. I agree that i18n issues are very important for search. Because of the = 10 minutes limitation, I delete not only this part but also the security = part from the search slides. If you or others strongly support = discussing this part in tomorrow search slot, I'd like to add it into = the slides. But I'm afraid we do not have enough time to focus on it. > I consider paging and ordering to be advanced search features and they = should be specified at a later date. IMHO, ordering may be advanced. But I'm still not sure whether paging is = advanced or basic. Let's assume paging is advanced and not supported by = the first bundle of WG products, so I'm afraid that each RDAP server = complying with RDAP core protocols has to provision a full answer within = a single response even if the number of matched results is huge. Based = on this scenario, I think paging or other function such as response = number limit is necessary and should be basic. Cheers, Ning= --Apple-Mail=_67666C49-C135-404A-9FDB-1CC4A9D604C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Andy,

Absent from this slide deck are questions about Internationalization issues and how to handle Unicode and IDN partial matching on characters that can be combined. This is a big part of search and needs to be teased out.
I agree that i18n issues are very important for search. Because of the 10 minutes limitation, I delete not only this part but also the security part from the search slides. If you or others strongly support discussing this part in tomorrow search slot, I'd like to add it into the slides. But I'm afraid we do not have enough time to focus on it.

I consider paging and ordering to be advanced search features and they should be specified at a later date.
IMHO, ordering may be advanced. But I'm still not sure whether paging is advanced or basic. Let's assume paging is advanced and not supported by the first bundle of WG products, so I'm afraid that each RDAP server complying with RDAP core protocols has to provision a full answer within a single response even if the number of matched results is huge. Based on this scenario, I think paging or other function such as response number limit is necessary and should be basic.

Cheers,
Ning
--Apple-Mail=_67666C49-C135-404A-9FDB-1CC4A9D604C6-- From andy@arin.net Wed Jul 31 05:50:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C524211E8177 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:50:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.215 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.215 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.617, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0YEXnB6RdQhG for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27B9421F9EE9 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 05:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id C61C5165268; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CB5C16525C; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.342.3; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:50:36 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 08:50:36 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: Ning Kong Thread-Topic: [weirds] Search Slides Thread-Index: AQHOjW2GFG7dkGIEvUacqAs0SgDyOJl+qraAgAAttYCAACTAgIAAJaWA Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:50:35 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CE1ED2C3270FDandyarinnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:50:59 -0000 --_000_CE1ED2C3270FDandyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Ning Kong > Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 2:35 PM To: Andrew Newton > Cc: "Murray S. Kucherawy" >= , "weirds@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides Hi Andy, Absent from this slide deck are questions about Internationalization issues= and how to handle Unicode and IDN partial matching on characters that can = be combined. This is a big part of search and needs to be teased out. I agree that i18n issues are very important for search. Because of the 10 m= inutes limitation, I delete not only this part but also the security part f= rom the search slides. If you or others strongly support discussing this pa= rt in tomorrow search slot, I'd like to add it into the slides. But I'm afr= aid we do not have enough time to focus on it. Given the past discussions on internationalization issues in this working g= roup, I think it is a mistake to not make use of our face-to-face time to s= ort these matters out. If are this time constrained on issues that require = high bandwidth interaction, the chairs should ask for another slot now. IMHO, ordering may be advanced. But I'm still not sure whether paging is ad= vanced or basic. Let's assume paging is advanced and not supported by the f= irst bundle of WG products, so I'm afraid that each RDAP server complying w= ith RDAP core protocols has to provision a full answer within a single resp= onse even if the number of matched results is huge. Based on this scenario,= I think paging or other function such as response number limit is necessar= y and should be basic. That's a good use case, but in practical terms I doubt any server operator = is willing to allow streaming of data so large as to enable data mining. So= there is no real need for paging. -andy --_000_CE1ED2C3270FDandyarinnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Ning Kong <nkong@cnnic.cn>
Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 2:35= PM
To: Andrew Newton <andy@arin.net>
Cc: "Murray S. Kucherawy"= <superuser@gmail.com>, &q= uot;weirds@ietf.org" <weirds@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides=

Hi Andy,

Absent from this slide deck are questions about Internationalization i= ssues and how to handle Unicode and IDN partial matching on characters that= can be combined. This is a big part of search and needs to be teased out.<= /div>
I agree that i18n issues are very important for search. Because of the= 10 minutes limitation, I delete not only this part but also the security p= art from the search slides. If you or others strongly support discussing th= is part in tomorrow search slot, I'd like to add it into the slides. But I'm afraid we do not have enough t= ime to focus on it.

Given the past discussions on internationalization issues in this work= ing group, I think it is a mistake to not make use of our face-to-face time= to sort these matters out. If are this time constrained on issues that req= uire high bandwidth interaction, the chairs should ask for another slot now.

IMHO, ordering may be advanced. But I'm still not sure whether paging = is advanced or basic. Let's assume paging is advanced and not supported by = the first bundle of WG products, so I'm afraid that each RDAP server comply= ing with RDAP core protocols has to provision a full answer within a single response even if the number of = matched results is huge. Based on this scenario, I think paging or other fu= nction such as response number limit is necessary and should be basic.

That's a good use case, but in practical terms I doubt any server oper= ator is willing to allow streaming of data so large as to enable data minin= g. So there is no real need for paging.

-andy
--_000_CE1ED2C3270FDandyarinnet_-- From shollenbeck@verisign.com Wed Jul 31 06:02:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 520F421F9EF6 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 06:02:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.723 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.723 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.125, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JKbRKUOwC42W for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 06:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod6og107.obsmtp.com (exprod6og107.obsmtp.com [64.18.1.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A2E11E8197 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 06:00:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osprey.verisign.com ([216.168.239.75]) (using TLSv1) by 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IGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPk5pbmc8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8 L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226AE5BRN1WNEXMBX01vc_-- From andy@arin.net Wed Jul 31 06:22:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA05721F9E73 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 06:22:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.127 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.127 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.528, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LbIMwQrJtYYq for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 06:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.arin.net (smtp1.arin.net [IPv6:2001:500:4:13::33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0A0611E8171 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 06:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix, from userid 323) id D5FC9165256; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:22:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (chaxch06.corp.arin.net [192.149.252.95]) by smtp1.arin.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2921651D6; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net (10.1.30.17) by CHAXCH06.corp.arin.net (192.149.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.342.3; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:22:28 -0400 Received: from CHAXCH02.corp.arin.net ([169.254.2.236]) by CHAXCH03.corp.arin.net ([10.1.30.17]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:22:27 -0400 From: Andy Newton To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" , Ning Kong Thread-Topic: [weirds] Search Slides Thread-Index: AQHOjW2GFG7dkGIEvUacqAs0SgDyOJl+qraAgAAttYCAACTAgIAABuWAgAAnqQA= Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:22:27 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226AE5@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.5.130515 x-originating-ip: [192.149.252.96] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <155486B72EA46E49847F3BD5EF0EDA00@corp.arin.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:22:49 -0000 From: , Scott Hollenbeck Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 3:00 PM To: Ning Kong , Andrew Newton Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: RE: [weirds] Search Slides >Ning, none of the gTLDs I looked at this morning (com/net, org, biz) >provide any kind of paging support. Do you know any registry operator >that does? Does CNNIC? I can see suggesting > a response limit, but if no one is doing paging now it=B9s more difficult >for me to believe that it=B9s a much-needed core service. >=20 >Scott > With regard to a response limit, I see value in a boolean noting that the response has been limited in that a client can signal that it has happened. Anything fancier will require a human to understand and such text can simply be put into a notice (already defined in the current round of drafts). -andy From edainow@afilias.info Wed Jul 31 09:10:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F6211E818C for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:10:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TFROBegKyvBb for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound.afilias.info (outbound.afilias.info [66.199.183.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E056E11E80F9 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ms5.on1.afilias-ops.info ([10.109.8.9] helo=smtp.afilias.info) by outbound.afilias.info with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V4YyG-0008Eu-3R for weirds@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:09:52 +0000 Received: from mail-lb0-f172.google.com ([209.85.217.172]) by smtp.afilias.info with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1V4YyF-0000HG-67 for weirds@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:09:52 +0000 Received: by mail-lb0-f172.google.com with SMTP id o7so740379lbv.3 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:09:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=DHiNVwDj5NNr/6c5C0FRAXiSieEpNIFPF5gwdnzw7Es=; b=EvrKIXmABuNpXaOpZLdrykZxA6ohE0BrvjJJaIFkiAwk6CmHOVeUl97UtXtKzbplYm f7qZwgoB5BPfGBoXR4GJaIz9tH6awT1zt07AN9hTOCC40ldhVBWWDbGR/hsQZNO6GT1L FkdV+tSepEdAe5xrZ5pXQV7W2Rw4pvIBsFnnfa4Ku+/SWX36rj96viqOOkIUnt7+W9hn l74fNKkPIvQ52oZyWOFoFgLv77tYimUWcK+bAITpwxBCSmdMq72gUCElBquTgr6XFCJU s3wo953XKwWpXQ8FfTzU7jScptuiJEXMwLGo3Rur9MeSyDw5CXsJBP8h4Cf7azVtzkcj vX+Q== X-Received: by 10.152.30.35 with SMTP id p3mr13976566lah.32.1375286985609; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:09:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.30.35 with SMTP id p3mr13976561lah.32.1375286985506; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.79.137 with HTTP; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 09:09:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226755@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226755@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:09:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ernie Dainow To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0160a4543c535704e2d0f48a X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl5OuSc8yDFjRmU4B7FHfbyRi7/y3x0o2B3nR2CIflW419bW3Xh4z05C83X4afA9BbX101VNlq3ZeFYrAuEWG6DSyQ7dwBP0bnOphyUqPzEfdtrPPC6muD/1pYtfEutywaYv+a+ Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Current Search Functionality X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:10:22 -0000 --089e0160a4543c535704e2d0f48a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott wrote: > I'm a little bored with what's going on in this morning's oauth WG session > so I decided to do a little research on current search functionality for > com, net, org, and biz. This is by no means intended to be a comprehensive > survey. > > com/net: offers lookup and search for domains, name servers, and > registrars by name. There's a limit of 50 results returned, with no paging > or other method provided to get at whatever follows the first 50 results. > The "." character is used to specify a search for anything matching a > specific prefix. For example, a domain search for "a." will match all > domains that begin with the letter "a". The "*" character can also be used > for registrar name searches (but not domain names or name servers - go > figure), but it's not documented. (Personal note: I have no idea why the > "." character is used; "*" seems more intuitive to me. I need to ask the > guy that maintains this software...) > > org: Domain name lookup is available, but I can't find anything on the PIR > web site that describes if/how search functionality and name > server/registrar lookup is available. A search for "a." returns an "Invalid > Input!" response. A list of registrars is available via link from the WHOIS > web page. > org is pretty much the same as com/net -- limit of 50 results, no paging. Prefix wild card is % Whois help is not standardized and not documented but is available to those in the know via whois -h whois.pir.org help -Ernie > biz: Similar to com/net, except that a maximum of 75 results will be > returned. "*" is not supported. > > Scott > > > _______________________________________________ > weirds mailing list > weirds@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds > --089e0160a4543c535704e2d0f48a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 4:38 AM, Hollenbeck, Scott <shollen= beck@verisign.com> wrote:
I'm a little bored with what's going on in this mo= rning's oauth WG session so I decided to do a little research on curren= t search functionality for com, net, org, and biz. This is by no means inte= nded to be a comprehensive survey.

com/net: offers lookup and search for domains, name servers, and registrars= by name. There's a limit of 50 results returned, with no paging or oth= er method provided to get at whatever follows the first 50 results. The &qu= ot;." character is used to specify a search for anything matching a sp= ecific prefix. For example, a domain search for "a." will match a= ll domains that begin with the letter "a". The "*" char= acter can also be used for registrar name searches (but not domain names or= name servers - go figure), but it's not documented. (Personal note: I = have no idea why the "." character is used; "*" seems m= ore intuitive to me. I need to ask the guy that maintains this software...)=

org: Domain name lookup is available, but I can't find anything on the = PIR web site that describes if/how search functionality and name server/reg= istrar lookup is available. A search for "a." returns an "In= valid Input!" response. A list of registrars is available via link fro= m the WHOIS web page.

org is pretty much the same as com/net -- = limit of 50 results, no paging. Prefix wild card is %
Whois help = is not standardized and not documented but is available to those in the kno= w via =A0whois -h whois.pir.org help

-Ernie


biz: Similar to com/net, except that a maximum of 75 results will be return= ed. "*" is not supported.

Scott


_______________________________________________
weirds mailing list
weirds@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/weirds

--089e0160a4543c535704e2d0f48a-- From nkong@cnnic.cn Wed Jul 31 10:41:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63A6D21F937E for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:41:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QkehJW2rrQ0T for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A256021E80D2 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 10:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO [192.168.5.10]) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 01:40:59 +0800 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_635D2807-0C98-4AD9-AB7D-5B02B9D1FDAF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Ning Kong In-Reply-To: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226AE5@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:40:55 +0200 Message-Id: <303D3244-E163-4265-955C-E3A579F22E1C@cnnic.cn> References: <831693C2CDA2E849A7D7A712B24E257F49226AE5@BRN1WNEXMBX01.vcorp.ad.vrsn.com> To: "Hollenbeck, Scott" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Cc: "weirds@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [weirds] Search Slides X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 17:41:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_635D2807-0C98-4AD9-AB7D-5B02B9D1FDAF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Ning, none of the gTLDs I looked at this morning (com/net, org, biz) = provide any kind of paging support. Do you know any registry operator = that does? Does CNNIC? I can see suggesting a response limit, but if no = one is doing paging now it=E2=80=99s more difficult for me to believe = that it=E2=80=99s a much-needed core service. No, I don't know either. CNNIC doesn't support such function. I just think maybe there is a potential need for paging or response = limit when more and more RDAP implementors coming up. Cheers, Ning --Apple-Mail=_635D2807-0C98-4AD9-AB7D-5B02B9D1FDAF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Ning, none of the gTLDs I looked at this = morning (com/net, org, biz) provide any kind of paging support. Do you = know any registry operator that does? Does CNNIC? I can see suggesting a = response limit, but if no one is doing paging now it=E2=80=99s more = difficult for me to believe that it=E2=80=99s a much-needed core = service.
No, I don't = know either. CNNIC doesn't support such function.
I just think = maybe there is a potential need for paging or response limit when more = and more RDAP implementors coming = up.

Cheers,
Ning

= --Apple-Mail=_635D2807-0C98-4AD9-AB7D-5B02B9D1FDAF-- From nkong@cnnic.cn Wed Jul 31 15:00:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: weirds@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08FFE21E813A for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:00:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ycTShXrm07Hh for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:00:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cnnic.cn (smtp.cnnic.cn [218.241.118.7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3D21421E8138 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown127.0.0.1 (HELO [192.168.5.10]) (127.0.0.1) by 127.0.0.1 with SMTP; Thu, 01 Aug 2013 06:00:31 +0800 From: Ning Kong Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_05EF90D1-F634-491A-AC44-771BDF3F3B9D" Message-Id: Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 00:00:30 +0200 To: "weirds@ietf.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: [weirds] Search Slides (Final Version) X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:00:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_05EF90D1-F634-491A-AC44-771BDF3F3B9D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Folks, I update the slides again based on Andy's comments. See you tomorrow. Cheers, Ning --Apple-Mail=_05EF90D1-F634-491A-AC44-771BDF3F3B9D Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP - 02.pdf" Content-Type: application/pdf; name="Open Questions on the Search function for RDAP - 02.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 JVBERi0xLjMKJcTl8uXrp/Og0MTGCjQgMCBvYmoKPDwgL0xlbmd0aCA1IDAgUiAvRmlsdGVyIC9G bGF0ZURlY29kZSA+PgpzdHJlYW0KeAGNU9tu1DAQffdXTKEtSWG9vjsuvVBQVYm3SpZ4oDxFVAh1 kZb9f4ljx3a2G1Q1eZjxeK5njrd0T1sSJLjAp7QydpDkZeABH1kj6O9P+kZ/aP1lJ2nckcz/bkSQ 1cVt0yJYsz01W0muhQ960PTUys2WX/R4liqoVAHd4N+NbItSSZXkJJe5Ie08l97SuKHPkYzJ9xDK c+T2gVY4xA2tY0QIIuMjfafuqGcrgXP3picohrq3PdqCPK6Gk6zA5TTdQL6rN9X1oZtcWPfQV+ez rOi9PNWLupZx6VSuWPf+w2GVFrXKN3Zula9Lz6J02GJPevaD4le6jXmdS9Sk/S9qUg88GGmeo8Yq ajJ3oPagaGjVFl5CAl1NoLc8DYg6SRtW6VrLlCFtT/NMiXxsjxrg7KuHNDZwYQfXhrxT04QXYLy+ ovh7wq3Rj1vtlTUBNFhqIP5cWwJXRUqDSWxipFaZkRBKe+6dRVkcDhiZqFHLHmaTQbVsgA89Wooj zYmlH7i3fkDiwJ1Pz/QgPQjvPPAEiY+xA4ghAQ0Z0gayOYtknkFedGIcXkiZy01zOZLKci0kyhvD 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Kucherawy" To: "weirds@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c227ee50a2c304e2dcbb08 Subject: [weirds] Meeting materials uploaded X-BeenThere: weirds@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "WHOIS-based Extensible Internet Registration Data Service \(WEIRDS\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2013 06:12:53 -0000 --001a11c227ee50a2c304e2dcbb08 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 https://tools.ietf.org/wg/weirds/agenda?item=agenda-87-weirds.html If you're presenting, please make sure I've posted your slide deck; if you've sent multiple versions, please make sure the right one is there. See you in a few hours, -MSK --001a11c227ee50a2c304e2dcbb08 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you're presenting, pleas= e make sure I've posted your slide deck; if you've sent multiple ve= rsions, please make sure the right one is there.

See you in a few hours,

-MSK
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