From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Oct 03 15:55:18 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMWP8-0003A6-Nu; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:55:18 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EMWP6-00039W-RG for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:55:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28310 for ; Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:55:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EMWXc-0002Lm-1Z for remoteui@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:04:06 -0400 Received: from [192.168.2.27] (c-24-1-177-214.hsd1.tx.comcast.net [24.1.177.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j93K00hQ031220 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 3 Oct 2005 15:00:00 -0500 Message-ID: <43418C9C.90309@softarmor.com> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 14:55:08 -0500 From: Dean Willis User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.5 (Windows/20050711) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Raggett Subject: Re: [REMOTEUI] Widex charter proposal draft References: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268BFF7110@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com, remoteui@ietf.org X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Either the list stopped talking, or I fell off a few weeks ago. Let's find out which. Further comment in-line. Dave Raggett wrote: > One thing that came up was the need for the server to be able > to send events to the UI as well as updates. The UI may have > default event handlers for these events, or such event handlers > may be set via markup or scripts. In some cases the DOM update > messages may not be needed. > Wouldn't an event indicate a modification of the XML content, such as changing the status of a push-button from unselected to selected? If so, I think that's covered in the draft charter asa "DOM mutation/update" or do you see events as being an altogether different sort of thing? > I am unsure about the "WiDeX" name, as the protocol isn't really about > widgets, and I believe that "Widget Description Exchange Service" will > confuse people since the protocol won't define widgets. I understand > that "Remote User Interface" may be seen as too broad, so it seems like > we should continue to look for a more apt name than either WiDeX or > RemoteUI. How about DOMSYNC as a WG name? > With a view to chartering the working group in time for Vancouver, > it seems like it would be a good idea to get some feedback from > the Area directors on the draft charter, so that we can make any > necessary changes before formally submitting the charter. > Is this an action you could take on? Let's clear up the event question above, then bring in the AD. -- Dean _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Oct 06 01:07:35 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENNyg-0008GN-W3; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 01:07:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EN9ef-0002mt-J6; Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:49:57 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24190; Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:49:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200510051349.JAA24190@ietf.org> From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce@ietf.org Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:49:55 -0400 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 01:07:31 -0400 Cc: remoteui@ietf.org Subject: [REMOTEUI] WG Review: Widget Description Exchange Service (widex) X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: iesg@ietf.org List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Applications Area. The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by October 12. +++ Widget Description Exchange Service (widex) ------------------------------------------- Current Status: Proposed Working Group Chair(s): TBD Applications Area Director(s): Ted Hardie Scott Hollenbeck Applications Area Advisor: Scott Hollenbeck Mailing Lists: General Discussion: remoteui@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/remoteui/index.html Suplemental Website: http://www.softarmor.com/rui Description of Working Group: With the Internet reaching out to more and more devices, people are increasingly expecting to have access to services at anytime, from anywhere and using any device. Such services are being developed using Web technologies such as XML and distributed across the network rather than resident on any one device. An example is a service to access flight arrival times, where the user interface expressed in XHTML is rendered on a client device, the application logic runs on a remote server and a technique as user interface remoting is used to keep the user interface synchronized with the application logic. What is currently lacking is a convenient means for continous fine grained synchronization rather than the one provided by a request/response protocol (e.g. HTTP) for Web pages, which occurs in between page loads. This would allow the user interface to reflect changes in application state and offer greater flexibility for applications to respond to user input events. The WiDeX (Widget Description Exchange Service) Working Group seeks to define a light weight mechanism used in an IP-based network for remoting user interfaces where the user interface is represented in XML, and synchronization involves XML DOM events and XML DOM mutation/update operations. The WG will strive to preserve an extensible architecture so that the work possibly be useful in the future with other types of descriptive user interfaces beyond those specifically considered by the group. Specific topics that are NOT goals of this WG are: - XML representation of user interface objects. - Means to establish sessions and support for device coordination. The WiDeX service definition will define: - A mechanism for synchronizing distributed XML DOM objects by propagating DOM mutations/updates and DOM events. - A set of parameters that need to be negotiated by a service discovery and session setup mechanism in order to start the UI remoting session. - A framework that enables a mechanism for remoting user interfaces represented in XML format by using distributed XML DOM synchronization, and a service discovery and session setup mechanism as building blocks. Deliverables: - Requirements document. - Document specifying the framework for remoting user interfaces represented in XML format. - Document specifying the message formats for XML DOM events and updates using XML in a way that is independent of the transport protocol. - Document(s) specifying normative binding(s) to at least one transport protocol. It is possible that work undertaken in other working groups and even other standards bodies (e.g. W3C) will be referenced by this working group. It is even possible that entire deliverables could be satisfied by the work of other working groups (e.g. discovery protocols). This working group will seek to maximize the use of existing specifications where applicable. Goals and Milestones: Nov. 2005 IETF 64, Charter Working Group Feb. 2006 Working Group Last Call on Requirements draft March 2006 IETF 65, Discuss Last Call comments on Requirements draft April 2006 Submit Requirements draft to IESG for publication as Informational RFC June 2006 Working Group Last Call on Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts Aug. 2006 IETF 66, Discuss Last Call comments on Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts Nov. 2006 IETF 67, Submit Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts for publication as Proposed Standard _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Oct 06 09:42:05 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENW0b-0004g4-Cu; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:42:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENW0a-0004fx-5O for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:42:04 -0400 Received: from mail.verisignlabs.com (cliffie.verisignlabs.com [65.201.175.9]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA03729 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dul1shollenbl1 ([::ffff:216.168.239.87]) (AUTH: LOGIN shollenb, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:41:33 -0400 id 005CC68E.4345298D.00007829 From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: remoteui@ietf.org Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:41:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcXKe6oBpny8RiJDQ+OSEH12QTsMYg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [REMOTEUI] Charter Review Feedback X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org I've received two IAB-IESG comments on the proposed charter so far. From Leslie Daigle (leslie@thinkingcat.com): "Okay, colour me old -- when did "remote" become a verb?! I believe this description now boils down to: the (proposed) WG will look at the requirements for and possible implementations of efficiently exchanging specific XML data. The exchange has a particular purpose, namely to support a remote interface, but that's actually peripheral (it defines the nature of the exchange; it doesn't make UI's the purpose of the WG). Is it just me, or is there something missing in terms of the "meta" characteristics of the exchange: beyond being able to support the projection of any interface, there will be requirements that are more network related (e.g., security, authentication, etc). Presumably, those are intended to be included in the general "requirements"; I think I'm suggesting they should be called out separately in the charter." >From Russ Housley (housley@vigilsec.com): "I noticed two minor editorial errors: s/ light weight mechanism / lightweight mechanism / s/ work possibly be / work could possibly be /" The charter will be reviewed for working group approval by the IESG during the 13 October telechat. -Scott- _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Oct 06 14:20:50 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENaMM-0004Fb-7X; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:20:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENaMK-0004FI-Vu for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:20:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA20381 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:20:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENaVS-00040K-63 for remoteui@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:30:15 -0400 Received: from [192.168.2.103] ([12.5.186.26]) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j96IPU4P013843 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:25:30 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <0A7E96E4-1998-438A-9DC4-69BB6AA1C28D@softarmor.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dean Willis Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:20:51 -0500 To: remoteui@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [REMOTEUI] WHATWG relationship to remoteui? X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org > From: Joe Gregorio > > This work seems to have substantial overlap with the current work > of the WHATWG. In particular the work on Web Applications 1.0: > > http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#communication > Yes, it does seem to have similarities. Anybody here know more about WHATWG? -- Dean _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Oct 06 16:22:02 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENc7T-0002JU-Od; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:13:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ENYFh-0004u8-B5 for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:05:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12156 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:05:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from qproxy.gmail.com ([72.14.204.203]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ENYOm-0006Dp-IX for remoteui@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:15:12 -0400 Received: by qproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id a39so442260qbd for ; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:05:35 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=tdNGqfCGSypnErp4AUyc0pAeiHb5EG2J65wDMNPSdTROAlx+GGYnZlU2AFUjfLhsSku+p1SueKYspxAk1LXAIM7L6TgOpzLMQWyWlpNH2j/UziOYomEYHwED9EvA9nUbT4Erwk4R3SJo3qf0kh1VDO9iwcwtglO+hUdyNGz0YaA= Received: by 10.65.112.20 with SMTP id p20mr1034932qbm; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.75.18 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3f1451f50510060905me2dbd3dq74b5f44c4ffec620@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:05:35 -0400 From: Joe Gregorio To: iesg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <200510051349.JAA24190@ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <200510051349.JAA24190@ietf.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:13:33 -0400 Cc: remoteui@ietf.org Subject: [REMOTEUI] Re: WG Review: Widget Description Exchange Service (widex) X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Joe Gregorio List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org On 10/5/05, The IESG wrote: > A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Applications Area. The = IESG has not > made any determination as yet. The following draft charter was submitted,= and is > provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to th= e IESG mailing > list (iesg@ietf.org) by October 12. > > +++ > > Widget Description Exchange Service (widex) > ------------------------------------------- > > Current Status: Proposed Working Group This work seems to have substantial overlap with the current work of the WHATWG. In particular the work on Web Applications 1.0: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#communication Thanks, -joe -- Joe Gregorio http://bitworking.org _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Sat Oct 08 12:16:08 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EOHLK-00024G-Kw; Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:14:38 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EOHLK-000246-0Q for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:14:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28683 for ; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 12:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from homer.w3.org ([128.30.52.30]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EOHUp-0003e8-Rt for remoteui@ietf.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:24:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (homer.w3.org [128.30.52.30]) by homer.w3.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7844EED0; Sat, 8 Oct 2005 12:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 17:15:11 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Raggett X-X-Sender: dsr@holly To: Dean Willis Subject: Re: [REMOTEUI] WHATWG relationship to remoteui? In-Reply-To: <0A7E96E4-1998-438A-9DC4-69BB6AA1C28D@softarmor.com> Message-ID: References: <0A7E96E4-1998-438A-9DC4-69BB6AA1C28D@softarmor.com> X-GPG-PUBLIC_KEY: http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/pubkey-20040130.asc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Cc: remoteui@ietf.org X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 6 Oct 2005, Dean Willis wrote: > >> From: Joe Gregorio >> >> This work seems to have substantial overlap with the current work >> of the WHATWG. In particular the work on Web Applications 1.0: >> >> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#communication >> > > Yes, it does seem to have similarities. > > Anybody here know more about WHATWG? The following is based upon reading the whatwg spec at: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#communication The WHAT WG (not part of W3C) propose a means for HTML pages to subscribe to events provided by servers. The events are delivered via long lasting HTTP connections using a non-XML text based format defined in pseudo-BNF. How does this differ from the proposed RemoteUI/WiDeX charter? The RemoteUI/WiDeX charter envisions protocol support for the UI to pass events to a server, and for that server to dynamically update the UI. The WhatWG spec doesn't provide direct support for passing UI events to the server, although in principle, one could use a script and the XmlHttpRequest mechanism to do so. The WhatWG spec doesn't provide direct support for the server to dynamically update the UI, but in principle, one could subscribe to an update event stream, and script event handlers that update the UI via the DOM. Both of these work arounds would require the UI agent to support scripting and lack the simplicity of a declarative approach. Finally, the WhatWG spec has been designed with a view to extending HTML. The RemoteUI/WiDeX charter is agnostic with respect to what markup is used for the UI, and this would enable its use with a variety of markup languages, e.g. XHTML, SMIL, SVG, ... - -- Dave Raggett W3C lead for multimodal interaction http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett +44 1225 866240 (or 867351) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDR/CUb3AdEmxAsUsRAkJHAKDey989MhFqUZgFfz7BMiCC0vRiOQCggYZX 5qStg7JnOSgcsL674eOkNyE= =Pnr3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Oct 10 20:17:27 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EP7ni-0007TY-I6; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:15:26 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EP7ng-0007St-Tj for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:15:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA03742 for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EP7xg-0005xc-1o for remoteui@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:25:45 -0400 Received: from [64.101.149.214] (deanwillis-comp.cisco.com [64.101.149.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9B0KCpB024691 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:20:13 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <53B82D93-6409-47B3-BE65-5C03A7ED50F4@softarmor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: remoteui@ietf.org From: Dean Willis Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:15:15 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [REMOTEUI] So, what's happening, and what should we talk about in Vancouver? X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org We have, I believe, a roughly-agreed draft charter that Scott is hoping to discuss with the IESG this week. Let's assume that it, or something much like it, is approved. What are we going to talk about? We'll probably need to discuss the charter some and what it means to us. Dave Raggett suggested we would see some more input from W#C MMI by the end of October. We might need to discuss this on the list, and perhaps in Vancouver. So far, we also have draft-stirbu-lrdp-00.txt. I don't know whether we'll be seeing an update to this yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if we do. Does anybody else have anything in the works that we should talk about? Does anybody want to commit to coming up with a first-pass at a requirements document or at least to act as editor for such a document? It won't hurt to have several committed editors here. If we move forward, there are several documents that need to be written. Please raise your hand if you're interested . . . nah, I don't see any hands. Let's try it another way -- Please send a note back to this list explaining what you want to work on, and what you think we should talk about in Vancouver. Thanks, -- Dean (ongoing BoF cochair, pending a coupe d'etat) _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Oct 11 04:35:09 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPFbJ-0001rZ-1a; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:35:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPFbH-0001rQ-TU for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:35:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA07920 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:35:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from homer.w3.org ([128.30.52.30]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPFlL-0000rE-He for remoteui@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:45:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (homer.w3.org [128.30.52.30]) by homer.w3.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 208C04F04D; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 04:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:35:48 +0100 (BST) From: Dave Raggett X-X-Sender: dsr@holly To: Dean Willis Subject: Re: [REMOTEUI] So, what's happening, and what should we talk about in Vancouver? In-Reply-To: <53B82D93-6409-47B3-BE65-5C03A7ED50F4@softarmor.com> Message-ID: References: <53B82D93-6409-47B3-BE65-5C03A7ED50F4@softarmor.com> X-GPG-PUBLIC_KEY: http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/pubkey-20040130.asc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Cc: remoteui@ietf.org X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Vlad asked me to write up a draft requirements document, and I am now ready to make a start at it, and to act as editor, with a goal of having something ready in time for Vancouver. I am also seeking to get the W3C input together. On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Dean Willis wrote: > > We have, I believe, a roughly-agreed draft charter that Scott is > hoping to discuss with the IESG this week. > > Let's assume that it, or something much like it, is approved. What > are we going to talk about? > > We'll probably need to discuss the charter some and what it means > to us. > > Dave Raggett suggested we would see some more input from W#C MMI > by the end of October. We might need to discuss this on the list, > and perhaps in Vancouver. > > So far, we also have draft-stirbu-lrdp-00.txt. I don't know > whether we'll be seeing an update to this yet, but I wouldn't be > surprised if we do. > > Does anybody else have anything in the works that we should talk > about? > > Does anybody want to commit to coming up with a first-pass at a > requirements document or at least to act as editor for such a > document? It won't hurt to have several committed editors here. If > we move forward, there are several documents that need to be > written. Please raise your hand if you're interested . . . nah, I > don't see any hands. Let's try it another way -- Please send a > note back to this list explaining what you want to work on, and > what you think we should talk about in Vancouver. > > Thanks, > > -- > Dean (ongoing BoF cochair, pending a coupe d'etat) - -- Dave Raggett W3C lead for multimodal interaction http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett +44 1225 866240 (or 867351) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFDS3lob3AdEmxAsUsRAk84AJ9itSL2d+33BgIm64W3/MbaXpU03gCgqIBR Uhs2qXvLFzSSTWa9nEdcuH0= =Nin6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Oct 11 07:30:29 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPIKz-0006yi-6Q; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:30:29 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPIKy-0006yX-5u for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:30:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15592 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cliffie.verisignlabs.com ([65.201.175.9] helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPIV4-0005HG-Cd for remoteui@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:40:54 -0400 Received: from dul1shollenbl1 ([::ffff:216.168.239.87]) (AUTH: LOGIN shollenb, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:30:15 -0400 id 005CC876.434BA247.0000401F From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: "'Dave Raggett'" Subject: RE: [REMOTEUI] So, what's happening, and what should we talk aboutin Vancouver? Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 07:30:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcXOPtUxw3bBcctxR9qk5CKvBeZETwAGDFyg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: remoteui@ietf.org X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Raggett [mailto:dsr@w3.org] > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 4:36 AM > To: Dean Willis > Cc: remoteui@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [REMOTEUI] So, what's happening, and what should > we talk aboutin Vancouver? > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Vlad asked me to write up a draft requirements document, and I am > now ready to make a start at it, and to act as editor, with a goal > of having something ready in time for Vancouver. I am also seeking > to get the W3C input together. Note that the cut-off date for -00 I-Ds is 17 October: October 17th: Cutoff Date for Initial (i.e., version -00) Internet-Draft Submissions -Scott- _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Oct 11 17:22:12 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPRZc-0004sc-9Z; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:22:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPRZb-0004sU-0l for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:22:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04979 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:22:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Received: from mgw-ext02.nokia.com ([131.228.20.94]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPRjk-0002AY-2s for remoteui@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:32:42 -0400 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext02.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j9BLM3WJ029192; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:22:03 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:21:52 +0300 Received: from trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.22.124.61]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:21:51 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:21:52 +0300 Message-ID: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B011FC305@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> Thread-Topic: RemoteUI/WIDEX updated WG proposal Thread-Index: AcXOqcxABHWAvCJFQ+iHMJs7JUiaGg== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Oct 2005 21:21:51.0906 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC1B4020:01C5CEA9] X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff03b0075c3fc728d7d60a15b4ee1ad2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: leslie@thinkingcat.com, housley@vigilsec.com Subject: [REMOTEUI] RemoteUI/WIDEX updated WG proposal X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Hi, Please find attached the updated WG description proposal incorporating comments received so far. Vlad=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Remote UI/Widget Description Exchange Service (rui/widex) Chair(s): Dean Willis Vlad Stirbu Applications Area Director(s): Ted Hardie Scott Hollenbeck Applications Area Advisor: Scott Hollenbeck Mailing Lists: General Discussion: remoteui@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/remoteui/index.html Suplemental Website: http://www.softarmor.com/rui Description of Working Group: With the Internet reaching out to more and more devices, people are increasingly expecting to have access to services at anytime, from anywhere and using any device. Such services are being developed using Web technologies such as XML and distributed across the network rather than resident on any one device. An example is a service to access flight arrival times, where the user interface expressed in XHTML is rendered on a client device, the application logic runs on a remote server and a technique as remote user interface is used to keep the user interface synchronized with the application logic. What is currently lacking is a convenient means for continous fine grained synchronization rather than the one provided by a request/response protocol (e.g. HTTP) for Web pages, which occurs in between page loads. This would allow the user interface to reflect changes in application state and offer greater flexibility for applications to respond to user input events. The WiDeX (Widget Description Exchange Service) Working Group seeks to define a lightweight mechanism used in an IP-based network for efficiently exchanging XML data describing user interfaces and where remote user interface synchronization involves XML DOM events and XML DOM mutation/update operations. In addition, the Working Group will cover the network-based mechanics of connectivity, reliability, security that will enable exchanging the specific XML data over the network in an efficient way. The Working Group will strive to preserve an extensible architecture so that the work could possibly be useful in the future with other types of descriptive user interfaces beyond those specifically considered by the group. Specific topics that are NOT goals of this WG are: * XML representation of user interface objects. * Means to establish sessions and support for device coordination. The WiDeX service definition will define: * A mechanism for synchronizing distributed XML DOM objects by propagating DOM mutations/updates and DOM events. * A set of parameters that need to be negotiated by a service discovery and session setup mechanism in order to start the UI remoting session. * A framework that enables a mechanism for remoting user interfaces represented in XML format by using distributed XML DOM synchronization, and a service discovery and session setup mechanism as building blocks. Deliverables: * Requirements document covering network and application layer aspects of the service. * Document specifying the framework for remoting user interfaces represented in XML format. * Document specifying the message formats for XML DOM events and updates using XML in a way that is independent of the transport protocol. * Document(s) specifying normative binding(s) to at least one transport protocol. It is possible that work undertaken in other working groups and even other standards bodies (e.g. W3C) will be referenced by this working group. It is even possible that entire deliverables could be satisfied by the work of other working groups (e.g. discovery protocols). This working group will seek to maximize the use of existing specifications where applicable. Goals and Milestones: Nov. 2005 IETF 64, Charter Working Group Feb. 2006 Working Group Last Call on Requirements draft March 2006 IETF 65, Discuss Last Call comments on Requirements draft April 2006 Submit Requirements draft to IESG for publication as Informational RFC June 2006 Working Group Last Call on Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts Aug. 2006 IETF 66, Discuss Last Call comments on Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts Nov. 2006 IETF 67, Submit Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts for publication as Proposed Standard Internet-Drafts: LRDP: The Lightweight Remote Display Protocol, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stirbu-lrdp-00.txt No Request For Comments _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Oct 11 18:54:19 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPT0l-0008Rk-AG; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:54:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPT0k-0008Rf-14 for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:54:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA08445 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:54:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPTAv-0004FY-7Q for remoteui@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:04:50 -0400 Received: from [64.101.149.214] (deanwillis-comp.cisco.com [64.101.149.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9BMx9FT005179 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:59:10 -0500 In-Reply-To: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B011FC305@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> References: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B011FC305@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <65335858-48E9-4161-A681-AB36F6465F86@softarmor.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dean Willis Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:54:11 -0500 To: "" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: leslie@thinkingcat.com, housley@vigilsec.com, remoteui@ietf.org Subject: [REMOTEUI] Re: RemoteUI/WIDEX updated WG proposal X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org On Oct 11, 2005, at 4:21 PM, wrote: > In addition, the Working Group will > cover the network-based mechanics of connectivity, reliability, > security > that will enable exchanging the specific XML data over the network > in an > efficient way. > I'd suggesting re-phrasing this as follows: In addition, the working group will document requirements and appropriate mechanisms for transporting the XML data describing user interface state and events across the Internet. This will require at a minimum addressing operational security, authentication, a threat model, latency, bandwidth and efficiency assumptions, and reliability. -- dean _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Oct 11 19:10:47 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPTGh-0004bc-FT; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:10:47 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EPTGg-0004bR-0G for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:10:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09214 for ; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:10:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Received: from mgw-ext03.nokia.com ([131.228.20.95]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EPTQr-0004fe-Tu for remoteui@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:21:18 -0400 Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-ext03.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j9BN8lQ7002202; Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:08:49 +0300 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:10:39 +0300 Received: from trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.22.124.61]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:08:29 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5CEB8.B11EA0DA" Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:08:28 +0300 Message-ID: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B011FC309@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes Thread-Topic: RemoteUI/WIDEX updated WG proposal Thread-Index: AcXOttzbfnqOFIotRq26FwbeBL8etgAAP9+g To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Oct 2005 23:08:29.0491 (UTC) FILETIME=[B15D4030:01C5CEB8] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6640e3bbe8a4d70c4469bcdcbbf0921d Cc: leslie@thinkingcat.com, housley@vigilsec.com Subject: [REMOTEUI] RE: RemoteUI/WIDEX updated WG proposal X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CEB8.B11EA0DA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, updated proposal attached. Vlad >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Dean Willis [mailto:dean.willis@softarmor.com]=20 >Sent: 12 October, 2005 01:54 >To: Stirbu Vlad (Nokia-TP-MSW/Tampere) >Cc: remoteui@ietf.org; sah@428cobrajet.net;=20 >leslie@thinkingcat.com; housley@vigilsec.com >Subject: Re: RemoteUI/WIDEX updated WG proposal > > >On Oct 11, 2005, at 4:21 PM, =20 > wrote: > >> In addition, the Working Group will >> cover the network-based mechanics of connectivity, reliability,=20 >> security that will enable exchanging the specific XML data over the=20 >> network in an efficient way. >> > >I'd suggesting re-phrasing this as follows: > >In addition, the working group will document requirements and=20 >appropriate mechanisms for transporting the XML data=20 >describing user interface state and events across the=20 >Internet. This will require at a minimum addressing=20 >operational security, authentication, a threat model, latency,=20 >bandwidth and efficiency assumptions, and reliability. > >-- >dean > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CEB8.B11EA0DA Content-Type: text/plain; name="RUI-Widex description proposal.txt" Content-Description: RUI-Widex description proposal.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="RUI-Widex description proposal.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UmVtb3RlIFVJL1dpZGdldCBEZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBFeGNoYW5nZSBTZXJ2aWNlIChydWkvd2lkZXgp DQoNCkNoYWlyKHMpOg0KDQpEZWFuIFdpbGxpcyA8ZGVhbi53aWxsaXNAc29mdGFybW9yLmNvbT4N ClZsYWQgU3RpcmJ1IDx2bGFkLnN0aXJidUBub2tpYS5jb20+DQoNCkFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBBcmVh IERpcmVjdG9yKHMpOg0KDQpUZWQgSGFyZGllIDxoYXJkaWVAcXVhbGNvbW0uY29tPg0KU2NvdHQg SG9sbGVuYmVjayA8c2FoQDQyOGNvYnJhamV0Lm5ldD4NCg0KQXBwbGljYXRpb25zIEFyZWEgQWR2 aXNvcjoNCg0KU2NvdHQgSG9sbGVuYmVjayA8c2FoQDQyOGNvYnJhamV0Lm5ldD4NCg0KTWFpbGlu ZyBMaXN0czoNCg0KR2VuZXJhbCBEaXNjdXNzaW9uOiByZW1vdGV1aUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KVG8gU3Vi 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5CEB8.B11EA0DA-- From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Oct 13 12:58:47 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ6Pm-00014h-Sw; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:58:46 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EQ6Pl-00014X-A5 for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:58:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28685 for ; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cliffie.verisignlabs.com ([65.201.175.9] helo=mail.verisignlabs.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EQ6aH-0000os-UU for remoteui@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:09:39 -0400 Received: from dul1shollenbl1 ([::ffff:216.168.239.87]) (AUTH: LOGIN shollenb, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,128bits,RC4-MD5) by mail.verisignlabs.com with esmtp; Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:58:34 -0400 id 005CC94A.434E923A.00005D56 From: "Scott Hollenbeck" To: remoteui@ietf.org Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:58:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcXQF1G8bxsokWa0Qqmsg9a2Wgzl7w== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [REMOTEUI] Working Group Approved! X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org The IESG just approved creation of the widex working group during today's telechat. Congratulations! It might be worth changing the prefix used to flag mailing list messages from "REMOTEUI" to "WIDEX". I believe the mailman UI lets the list admins make that change. -Scott- _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Oct 19 16:39:34 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESKik-0008Ae-71; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:39:34 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ESKij-00089x-7Y for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:39:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29183 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:39:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Vlad.Stirbu@nokia.com Received: from mgw-ext03.nokia.com ([131.228.20.95]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ESKuU-0005nS-IY for remoteui@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:51:44 -0400 Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext03.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j9JKbNH5005368 for ; Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:37:23 +0300 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:39:28 +0300 Received: from trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.22.124.61]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:39:28 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7233.31 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:39:26 +0300 Message-ID: <1C1F3D15859526459B4DD0A7A9B2268B012C48DE@trebe101.NOE.Nokia.com> Thread-Topic: New I-D: Widget Description Exchange Service (WIDEX) Requirements Thread-Index: AcXU7TH8oD3ygmptRxGjKFYnN8c8HQ== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2005 20:39:28.0492 (UTC) FILETIME=[336B12C0:01C5D4ED] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Subject: [WIDEX] New I-D: Widget Description Exchange Service (WIDEX) Requirements X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Hi, The draft will be available shortly in the IETF drafts repositorybut until then it can be found here: http://www.kolumbus.fi/vlad.stirbu/draft-stirbu-widex-requirements-00.tx t. Regards, Vlad _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Oct 24 20:22:52 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUCaa-00067A-2g; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:22:52 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EU8Ye-0000Jm-3k; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:04:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA02155; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EU8lR-0000dO-Vy; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:17:50 -0400 Received: from apache by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EU8Yc-0004X6-8S; Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:04:34 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 To: IETF Announcement list From: IESG Secretary Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:04:34 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:22:51 -0400 Cc: remoteui@ietf.org Subject: [WIDEX] WG Action: Widget Description Exchange Service (widex) X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org A new IETF working group has been formed in the Application Area. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. +++ Widget Description Exchange Service (widex) ============================================ Current Status: Active Working Group Chair(s): Dean Willis Applications Area Director(s): Ted Hardie Scott Hollenbeck Applications Area Advisor: Scott Hollenbeck Mailing Lists: General Discussion: remoteui@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/remoteui/index.html Description of Working Group: With the Internet reaching out to more and more devices, people are increasingly expecting to have access to services at anytime, from anywhere and using any device. Such services are being developed using Web technologies such as XML and distributed across the network rather than resident on any one device. An example is a service to access flight arrival times, where the user interface expressed in XHTML is rendered on a client device, the application logic runs on a remote server and a technique as user interface remoting is used to keep the user interface synchronized with the application logic. What is currently lacking is a convenient means for continous fine grained synchronization rather than the one provided by a request/response protocol (e.g. HTTP) for Web pages, which occurs in between page loads. This would allow the user interface to reflect changes in application state and offer greater flexibility for applications to respond to user input events. The WiDeX (Widget Description Exchange Service) Working Group seeks to define a light weight mechanism used in an IP-based network for remoting user interfaces where the user interface is represented in XML, and synchronization involves XML DOM events and XML DOM mutation/update operations. The WG will strive to preserve an extensible architecture so that the work possibly be useful in the future with other types of descriptive user interfaces beyond those specifically considered by the group. Specific topics that are NOT goals of this WG are: - XML representation of user interface objects. - Means to establish sessions and support for device coordination. The WiDeX service definition will define: - A mechanism for synchronizing distributed XML DOM objects by propagating DOM mutations/updates and DOM events. - A set of parameters that need to be negotiated by a service discovery and session setup mechanism in order to start the UI remoting session. - A framework that enables a mechanism for remoting user interfaces represented in XML format by using distributed XML DOM synchronization, and a service discovery and session setup mechanism as building blocks. Deliverables: - Requirements document. - Document specifying the framework for remoting user interfaces represented in XML format. - Document specifying the message formats for XML DOM events and updates using XML in a way that is independent of the transport protocol. - Document(s) specifying normative binding(s) to at least one transport protocol. It is possible that work undertaken in other working groups and even other standards bodies (e.g. W3C) will be referenced by this working group. It is even possible that entire deliverables could be satisfied by the work of other working groups (e.g. discovery protocols). This working group will seek to maximize the use of existing specifications where applicable. Goals and Milestones: Nov 05 Charter Working Group Feb 06 Working Group Last Call on Requirements draft Mar 06 Discuss Last Call comments on Requirements draft Apr 06 Submit Requirements draft to IESG for publication as Informational RFC Jun 06 Working Group Last Call on Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts Aug 06 Discuss Last Call comments on Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts Nov 06 Submit Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts for publication as Proposed Standard _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Oct 25 14:04:20 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUT9o-0005Jf-5v; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:04:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUT9n-0005JV-4d for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:04:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09623 for ; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUTMn-0004cR-JT for remoteui@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:17:45 -0400 Received: from apache by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1EUT9m-0004sR-Hh for remoteui@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:04:18 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 To: remoteui@ietf.org From: iesg-secretary@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:04:18 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 Cc: Subject: [WIDEX] WG Action: Widget Description Exchange Service (widex) X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org A new IETF working group has been formed in the Application Area. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. +++ Widget Description Exchange Service (widex) ============================================ Current Status: Active Working Group Chair(s): Dean Willis Applications Area Director(s): Ted Hardie Scott Hollenbeck Applications Area Advisor: Scott Hollenbeck Mailing Lists: General Discussion: remoteui at ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/remoteui/index.html Description of Working Group: With the Internet reaching out to more and more devices, people are increasingly expecting to have access to services at anytime, from anywhere and using any device. Such services are being developed using Web technologies such as XML and distributed across the network rather than resident on any one device. An example is a service to access flight arrival times, where the user interface expressed in XHTML is rendered on a client device, the application logic runs on a remote server and a technique as user interface remoting is used to keep the user interface synchronized with the application logic. What is currently lacking is a convenient means for continous fine grained synchronization rather than the one provided by a request/response protocol (e.g. HTTP) for Web pages, which occurs in between page loads. This would allow the user interface to reflect changes in application state and offer greater flexibility for applications to respond to user input events. The WiDeX (Widget Description Exchange Service) Working Group seeks to define a light weight mechanism used in an IP-based network for remoting user interfaces where the user interface is represented in XML, and synchronization involves XML DOM events and XML DOM mutation/update operations. The WG will strive to preserve an extensible architecture so that the work possibly be useful in the future with other types of descriptive user interfaces beyond those specifically considered by the group. Specific topics that are NOT goals of this WG are: - XML representation of user interface objects. - Means to establish sessions and support for device coordination. The WiDeX service definition will define: - A mechanism for synchronizing distributed XML DOM objects by propagating DOM mutations/updates and DOM events. - A set of parameters that need to be negotiated by a service discovery and session setup mechanism in order to start the UI remoting session. - A framework that enables a mechanism for remoting user interfaces represented in XML format by using distributed XML DOM synchronization, and a service discovery and session setup mechanism as building blocks. Deliverables: - Requirements document. - Document specifying the framework for remoting user interfaces represented in XML format. - Document specifying the message formats for XML DOM events and updates using XML in a way that is independent of the transport protocol. - Document(s) specifying normative binding(s) to at least one transport protocol. It is possible that work undertaken in other working groups and even other standards bodies (e.g. W3C) will be referenced by this working group. It is even possible that entire deliverables could be satisfied by the work of other working groups (e.g. discovery protocols). This working group will seek to maximize the use of existing specifications where applicable. Goals and Milestones: Nov 05 Charter Working Group Feb 06 Working Group Last Call on Requirements draft Mar 06 Discuss Last Call comments on Requirements draft Apr 06 Submit Requirements draft to IESG for publication as Informational RFC Jun 06 Working Group Last Call on Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts Aug 06 Discuss Last Call comments on Framework, Message Formats and TransportBindings drafts Nov 06 Submit Framework, Message Formats and Transport Bindings drafts for publication as Proposed Standard _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Oct 26 22:20:49 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUxNp-0001qK-5n; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:20:49 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUxNo-0001os-Bc for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:20:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA16101 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUxb2-0003QL-Fq for remoteui@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:34:31 -0400 Received: from [192.168.2.101] (c-24-1-177-214.hsd1.tx.comcast.net [24.1.177.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9R2PrNv017244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:25:53 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <26B21212-59FD-4AFF-9D3E-818041912E3F@softarmor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: remoteui@ietf.org From: Dean Willis Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:20:42 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [WIDEX] WIDEX Draft Agenda for IETF 64 X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org The draft agenda for WIDEX at IETF 64 is: Tuesday, November 8, 0900-1130 0900 Agenda Bash, Chairs 0905 Charter, Chairs 0930 Requirements Draft, led by Vlad Stirbu 1030 Ongoing Work in W3C MMI, led by Dave Raggett A pretty(er) graphical version is at: http://www.softarmor.com/widex/meets/ietf64/agenda.html -- Dean Willis _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui From remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Oct 26 22:24:57 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUxRp-0005uh-DL; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:24:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EUxRn-0005tn-SY for remoteui@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:24:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA16344 for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nylon.softarmor.com ([66.135.38.164]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EUxf5-0003Y9-9X for remoteui@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:38:39 -0400 Received: from [192.168.2.101] (c-24-1-177-214.hsd1.tx.comcast.net [24.1.177.214]) (authenticated bits=0) by nylon.softarmor.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j9R2U4QO017258 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:30:04 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v734) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed To: remoteui@ietf.org From: Dean Willis Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 21:24:54 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.734) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Subject: [WIDEX] Supplemental Home Page and More X-BeenThere: remoteui@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Remote UI BoF and future WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org Errors-To: remoteui-bounces@lists.ietf.org I've moved our supplemental home page to: http://www.softarmor.com/widex/ Also, I'm looking into having the mailing list here renamed (as opposed to just relabeled, which it has been -- Thanks, Vlad!) to "widex@ietf.org". I'll keep you posted if tf that happens. -- Dean _______________________________________________ REMOTEUI mailing list REMOTEUI@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/remoteui