From nobody Tue Apr 6 14:07:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E7B3A30EC for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:07:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_TEMPERROR=0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BepJ0-hAtl-3 for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gro.dd.org (host2.dlawren-3-gw.cust.sover.net [207.136.201.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3097C3A30EA for ; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 14:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gro.dd.org (Postfix, from userid 102) id CF5517F0AB; Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:07:22 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <24684.52618.825991.504791@gro.dd.org> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:07:22 -0400 From: Dave Lawrence To: Larry Masinter Cc: 'WPACK List' In-Reply-To: <025201d72074$768fa6e0$63aef4a0$@acm.org> References: <0C5B1FE3-AB3E-4074-AED9-93DD10B89BFD@sn3rd.com> <3CF5CFC6-57AA-42AB-A42F-260DF8DA159B@mnot.net> <4896A451-ECFE-482F-B672-E6B257DEE521@sn3rd.com> <035001d71d43$390bfbe0$ab23f3a0$@acm.org> <752FE4AC-970C-4362-8289-3F90EC373932@sn3rd.com> <025201d72074$768fa6e0$63aef4a0$@acm.org> Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Wpack] Call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges X-BeenThere: wpack@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Web Packaging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2021 21:07:50 -0000 Larry Masinter wrote: > There are problems you are not solving because they're not in your > charter or in your use cases, and not addressed by your initial > starting point, and you've adopted some additional requirements around > fitting into the existing web "security model" that I think are > unattainable. This is potentially a very interesting area of work, Larry, and perhaps it is indeed something the group should be looking at in more detail. Would you please expand on these thoughts, and address whether any of the issues you see somehow preclude aspects of the work already done? We might not be able to address all possible use cases, but does the additional set of use cases that you see somehow end up harmed by moving forward with what we have? > I think the IETF needs another look at MIME multipart for > multipart/related, multipart/form-data, multipart/signed, > multipart/alternative and I'd hoped when I first heard of WPACK that > you'd take those (and their use cases) on. We'd certainly welcome a draft, even skeletal, that captured some of your ideas here so that the group could review. From nobody Wed Apr 14 06:28:30 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99CC63A07B2 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:28:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fd2Pr_t7mqJb for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x82f.google.com (mail-qt1-x82f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D7813A07BE for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:28:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82f.google.com with SMTP id m16so14743962qtx.9 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:28:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=BgpCxXuQlz/Wz1yLmC5Ea4dFTSKcIZJ52tPPTwB97IQ=; b=TKdno946gcZzd+waHtV6l6ylURL6yNsu39BWFf+dgLYascbfbI+6YtnnVkil9LYLAA uKB+ekPvlfaEGbodwfYQac/I7Fl/ZsUnOxkjNgDExC8WtmFT3Ysc0BlzbnfWS/8yoY5h vTjDHUzBNHIhVpBlAPRPLxLhUc03OPWjT1m0w= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=BgpCxXuQlz/Wz1yLmC5Ea4dFTSKcIZJ52tPPTwB97IQ=; b=rQvSKoBCZfF92yDhW1NWFmlMn8TeMpQAQxJf4As0GRndYB5c9FxCcvxtp71OqxEiVn DUv3l3O6HbchFLwMwrobxDN1oo+ajEuv/vqxBe0gEdZOGB+IgKH0D/7okFFT44SIBT3r q++1f2FZP4bFHfhJIfGBecpfF62EdqiwFQihpdYW7ifSUXrCEFWEm85uzaFbi9sZBfW8 4RJphjcvLiMHQDXxPdq0oyClU2WT+71CQ082o/a5eZXxu0/fOaVCMfOpW0s2wkO84tai 2i9qhFgB7UP58SdGFVYqIDa/9iP4/A4lERODOs2agBR4UERRJP9cnBOj3qvqNylDfnU3 OYZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5311SLVzP7aBSxnZ1ao5M6D4QCZG2BpVwjFC4nNxlPcD9ws1N5J4 6cbkDURpuleokDFEKju+xi90q+kM+tQwdg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxww//RWHEq1dM0sCn9zAAgKL3WCALL0Uyhn8g0HvzSJ95wjZ803Gyrof3ZV8zP5A+/VjFRnQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7c45:: with SMTP id o5mr24233541qtv.10.1618406903492; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.152] (pool-71-178-177-131.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [71.178.177.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g10sm5628663qts.33.2021.04.14.06.28.22 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:28:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Turner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:28:22 -0400 References: <0C5B1FE3-AB3E-4074-AED9-93DD10B89BFD@sn3rd.com> To: WPACK List In-Reply-To: <0C5B1FE3-AB3E-4074-AED9-93DD10B89BFD@sn3rd.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Wpack] Call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges X-BeenThere: wpack@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Web Packaging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 13:28:30 -0000 Hi! At our IETF 110 session, the sense of the room was that there was = interest in adopting draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges-04 as the = starting point for a WG I-D. While we had less participantion on the = mailing list during the WG call for adoption, we nevertheless feel there = is enough interest to adopt draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges-04. We = will ask the authors to submit draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges-04 = as a WG I-D. We will established a GItHub repo for the I-D and shared it = with the WG. Cheers, Dave & Sean > On Mar 15, 2021, at 20:53, Sean Turner wrote: >=20 > Based on interest expressed at IETF 110, this email starts the call = for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges. The I-D can be = found here: >=20 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges/ >=20 > This adoption call will run until March 30, 2021 at 2359 UTC. Please = indicate whether or not you would like to see this I-D adopted as a WG = item. Note that this is an adoption call for the draft as a starting = point for the bundle format. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > spt (for the chairs) From nobody Wed Apr 14 06:29:28 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D9E3A07FB for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:29:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CddpnwIZYtlN for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk1-x72d.google.com (mail-qk1-x72d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53C9D3A07F5 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x72d.google.com with SMTP id s5so12585957qkj.5 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:29:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:message-id:date :to; bh=zKls/8YeyAXtOA1Aau5htgi46ZG84okrZOdxfa5VqQI=; b=jcVCEMh3BHmv5xS8eYJQjILX36g/PKeLtFI94PinQND3SdF8M91datd4u5v+yI53NL zeJcRKDg273DibVrQiTU15yimsW+e7V5eeHa/1nM6bRTCd9OdnVLI5w7LsLE1VvQV25M b114xjVa5vCsMdU1nK1VwfBm6JAP2gAL9e/ag= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:message-id:date:to; bh=zKls/8YeyAXtOA1Aau5htgi46ZG84okrZOdxfa5VqQI=; b=ZPcxFv/Y5NxLA34gglh1fjyD3nZE1u7LGPpF/cdLmnDkcS24+yVelMLuKeLUvIsdyo fV/1xj/JbyHy8Pkft4uHFdOCSlD9DXMNlub7cePrSHTIB4z7liN90umQfnorxDlq5+2V Bl1i/RejjweaGjgYMYdlp3aV0oEkafJdKzLYCx3EoSOfkqZlkhEQUIluxQKbKpyPd+QH h+KuK02Vy8C0DKh2iBjDjCqwwgVeP371WFnW0VEETu1uv1CmXqWU4P1marF06dhqK1Uf IN0dwZvqhmIY4PPCqiHAyz8iIJYwVrBjIEX3FLRdc/jCOIDYLIV8Ldevr4uXLlesdWmm yX2w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Fc42jSglkgQSOIbDY2ERxf74OFxOpwjooK6nvG+vcll11uEEF gbMcfFnMnJ+qfewK2skR0tsmo9k5IAHKBw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyVfB/g1fl3AfCId1VAq65Wl1fDupsf6x8+yFdCIJQkNKsqyynTZg4H1ABL5+nAvHCAY9cO2w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:3c1:: with SMTP id r1mr36653350qkm.339.1618406957652; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.152] (pool-71-178-177-131.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [71.178.177.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g10sm5628663qts.33.2021.04.14.06.29.17 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Apr 2021 06:29:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Turner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.60.0.2.21\)) Message-Id: <0166AC00-FA11-4FE7-9735-E9023D7E50FB@sn3rd.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:29:16 -0400 To: WPACK List X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.60.0.2.21) Archived-At: Subject: [Wpack] Call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases X-BeenThere: wpack@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Web Packaging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 13:29:26 -0000 Hi! Part of our charter is =E2=80=9C[w]orking group adoption of use = cases document (will not be published as an RFC)=E2=80=9D. There has = been but one on offer: draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02 (note that -02 = is identical to -01 except for the publication dates). Therefore, this = email starts the call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02. = The I-D can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases/ This adoption call will run until April 29, 2021 at 2359 UTC. Please = indicate whether or not you would like to see this I-D adopted as a WG = item. Note that this is an adoption call for the draft as a starting = point for the use case I-D. Thanks, spt (for the chairs)= From nobody Wed Apr 14 09:11:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D58E3A156D for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=chromium.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9FjAoMwJRkhk for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A20FC3A1568 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:11:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id y12so15839028qtx.11 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:11:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=chromium.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NXvOWeHCtYL4cHUUrbDBVGsFNgLgM1nDDtTClnwUgNA=; b=DFoGpo9HPwxbvE45ElPRLBie7BlgAV9l9Ip3uXT+NYtg5t48D1/iKCHeWtKUQD82V9 nGNkeQAShACrzIJd48/TqLPf+x+RxPGlhwYNyhNlYnMMyYj6Isl8tTDsUSaCNjhSh0R2 1uvXW4zBdShLNMhsDi2KrZ8WNydV9FZ7XNULI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NXvOWeHCtYL4cHUUrbDBVGsFNgLgM1nDDtTClnwUgNA=; b=Vyzm/yqA4C05aaMbz0tz/wyUtW7jJFFcJfzW4PaZWiz+6oH6HDgUa9lvgMpSEwYWTd SDQkF/27IJPOX7jjW7LDhDE7nnmSj5PnksDa+/Tn0vSRB2gYLCINm0T7IocZ2aompIp3 RLF1LmyvRY97ffWma+41cVdsk83QaUbXnpRrXLoQN6fXdfc3/z2DTwbI5pMA7nj9YDYm n9yLnTv2mJuuWWElW4SLuPmQbY67MJhMEZodD5hE8Jl7dTHFa/DVkhaR8QcWwuJnDejA j1CaqlhEETbZJvjg5ahYBncNf72JEhxsJR9HTImtRAqMpBVgNt9ZD4lUFRTrq3Wyj7vR J2zQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533WJPhaWuV/2xdTF+M7VuJJvePuERHF9RgUxBrZ4u7X3uqVhgWk RM6pAzKg6Yg0J3OfaHZcKKkRF/Sn28rTKUnD473OzyUjHfY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwfrDgB4txuF432sAgqKbAwDj3Ytfd5CK4lReb/H6TUfI1BF2Kf3gajp2LGG8zXncftah/ny7zk4QdIHLfJXBg= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:148f:: with SMTP id l15mr35723583qtj.130.1618416688366; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:11:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0166AC00-FA11-4FE7-9735-E9023D7E50FB@sn3rd.com> In-Reply-To: <0166AC00-FA11-4FE7-9735-E9023D7E50FB@sn3rd.com> From: Jeffrey Yasskin Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:11:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: Sean Turner Cc: WPACK List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cf9bdf05bff0ffef" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Wpack] Call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases X-BeenThere: wpack@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Web Packaging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 16:11:34 -0000 --000000000000cf9bdf05bff0ffef Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support adopting this draft, and I expect to accept changes after adoption to align it better with WG consensus, as the WG makes its consensus known. On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 6:29 AM Sean Turner wrote: > Hi! Part of our charter is =E2=80=9C[w]orking group adoption of use cases= document > (will not be published as an RFC)=E2=80=9D. There has been but one on off= er: > draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02 (note that -02 is identical to -01 excep= t > for the publication dates). Therefore, this email starts the call for > adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02. The I-D can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases/ > > This adoption call will run until April 29, 2021 at 2359 UTC. Please > indicate whether or not you would like to see this I-D adopted as a WG > item. Note that this is an adoption call for the draft as a starting poin= t > for the use case I-D. > > Thanks, > spt (for the chairs) > _______________________________________________ > Wpack mailing list > Wpack@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpack > --000000000000cf9bdf05bff0ffef Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I support adopting this draft, and I expect to accept chan= ges after adoption to align it better with WG consensus, as the WG makes it= s consensus known.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 6:29 AM Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi! Part of our = charter is =E2=80=9C[w]orking group adoption of use cases document (will no= t be published as an RFC)=E2=80=9D. There has been but one on offer: draft-= yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02 (note that -02 is identical to -01 except for th= e publication dates). Therefore, this email starts the call for adoption of= draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02. The I-D can be found here:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-yasskin-wpack-use-cases/

This adoption call will run until April 29, 2021 at 2359 UTC. Please indica= te whether or not you would like to see this I-D adopted as a WG item. Note= that this is an adoption call for the draft as a starting point for the us= e case I-D.

Thanks,
spt (for the chairs)
_______________________________________________
Wpack mailing list
Wpack@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpack
--000000000000cf9bdf05bff0ffef-- From nobody Wed Apr 14 09:19:34 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A06063A15C1 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:19:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=igalia.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vTCMhXC0__OP for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:19:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fanzine.igalia.com (fanzine.igalia.com [178.60.130.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E8123A15C3 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 09:19:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=igalia.com; s=20170329; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:MIME-Version; bh=CG42TI0tUi5kUTT8VMWGnMYVJOsv+OnhvkJmY9jIlus=; b=F9XSWRlcy9yBTSwff913QzOEI3oMtWSYS6db11vZ+8NEzvmPHeq3h1bRnAGJ+aYrFigfa1anATcajs6vjf3+I4JbpXScLphA+Hbg+8gu0oXCo6L0AiwqsVFFIw/5YQjv8ai+ZDjPRx3hX97AA9f3vWRrmfAq2cPPX3ZhV8syMc1rdfDbyNpQvru+6UIUrrZKlLgLIIQVupNNvw1NH1eLHYmw6/obNtLnKxeyMWHWsRNKFMG1cM6PhCW7/YUQn8LXSROR3OsIrBkMR2Lf/cEIknG5cK5+F9G/+XMTUdyyMkEFriR0MBScT17MfiydyNwAr96B+HiunqSycTEPN21HWQ==; Received: from maestria.local.igalia.com ([192.168.10.14] helo=mail.igalia.com) by fanzine.igalia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim) id 1lWiEd-00017c-W6; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 18:19:24 +0200 Received: from webmail.service.igalia.com ([192.168.21.45]) by mail.igalia.com with esmtp (Exim) id 1lWiEb-0006Mf-Ii; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 18:19:23 +0200 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=webmail.igalia.com) by webmail.service.igalia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.94) (envelope-from ) id 1lWiEQ-00019n-Tn; Wed, 14 Apr 2021 18:19:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 18:19:10 +0200 From: Daniel Ehrenberg To: Sean Turner Cc: WPACK List In-Reply-To: <0166AC00-FA11-4FE7-9735-E9023D7E50FB@sn3rd.com> References: <0166AC00-FA11-4FE7-9735-E9023D7E50FB@sn3rd.com> User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.4.11 Message-ID: <54999d05eb46b37c84c716773534a63a@igalia.com> X-Sender: littledan@igalia.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Wpack] Call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases X-BeenThere: wpack@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Web Packaging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 16:19:33 -0000 The prioritization in this document is very different from what I would support for a final RFC. I'm not sure if there is a valid way to support most of its "essential" use cases. Many important use cases of bundles are omitted from the document (e.g., improving tooling and server configuration). Nevertheless, there is a lot of useful text there outlining different scenarios where bundles may be used. I support adopting this document as a basis for making major edits to it as a WG. Dan On 2021-04-14 15:29, Sean Turner wrote: > Hi! Part of our charter is “[w]orking group adoption of use cases > document (will not be published as an RFC)”. There has been but one on > offer: draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02 (note that -02 is identical to > -01 except for the publication dates). Therefore, this email starts > the call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02. The I-D can > be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases/ > > This adoption call will run until April 29, 2021 at 2359 UTC. Please > indicate whether or not you would like to see this I-D adopted as a WG > item. Note that this is an adoption call for the draft as a starting > point for the use case I-D. > > Thanks, > spt (for the chairs) > _______________________________________________ > Wpack mailing list > Wpack@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpack From nobody Sun Apr 18 15:08:51 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EFD93A0D69 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:08:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HK_LOTTO=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X7ZoIZMXehsc for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42c.google.com (mail-pf1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C8CA3A0D66 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id i190so21886736pfc.12 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:08:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=qu9y93OiPaxAlx1YefXD50+TbunAuyfKnO9sSk8RJSI=; b=qeWVoXjQP+BVC2b8T57BhjXproSHKLNnMKSfr7jS1D6ZIBcvU+c4imxfmGblZ2i7Ey 1buu1rG9rquRjL7rED952e3eCRnxyFHTpIextMSWK4Sn1YII71j1q+LpdCIZ1Gn3t1gu oCGr3kJ9f+c+ymC8rw/SqtlPp3VD7Kb5NhXpBZR1TO1/6UzS73awK0WBntRDEqeD1tBd f+FVNzUU8Fh7zKjr684U3fb2XL42HLR77g+vGNVMKY2LmfgaScJPq1Rt4v/v6qtpPpE/ 5DIkab8xf3HvhXNVV59yST18t7tsz81PnWqCCbbnUCA6rHTFUuLHuvbB/mIqJWoirjsn 07+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=qu9y93OiPaxAlx1YefXD50+TbunAuyfKnO9sSk8RJSI=; b=rLmjyMu8TLZuVGljrd/0dkr+6+U41ysXtqgg3HxPmIJpxA7MjReGK1XIukHjT0T/HY hEvw+eRs45AnF6zb6S0M9JMmPum8+HLdiZHaOcWbIJjkugS/wT/4HWrH/7EvVX2KSsEn rSPSnUkIfYhYuVdHefsvmbGNyrUuhnvR1IDdXANx/qNvM8F+izACuQTZXzuCL9RvJUvQ Bj5QE4oldE854G374b9m13IPlJCm2VE39NUhc6KasCEHYpmNmwmdqcTDKo1MAnq4H7t8 DguaaNHYHYrF4ye/X0ZlpXPXnFa4qpI5so1YIyoMOrpRXW1TxLlCiosLp6DitdMxT/11 RXTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532dnBEkYKpfCl5oWpMCn62+zxlPhGyf1FVx0yBfurQqJQeSshu+ F7a34dAKLYgWZqpS0Pq2T90= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzLlur1k0bB9jpe5tkxyxzdho5ZAoeugdQN1Lh3SL7D9PECbGuBd8H+/fHxtkADdip9tGBjAw== X-Received: by 2002:a63:fb15:: with SMTP id o21mr8826079pgh.337.1618783722404; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TVPC (c-73-158-116-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.158.116.21]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id kr16sm12551148pjb.30.2021.04.18.15.08.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Larry Masinter From: Larry Masinter X-Google-Original-From: "Larry Masinter" To: "'Dave Lawrence'" Cc: "'WPACK List'" References: <0C5B1FE3-AB3E-4074-AED9-93DD10B89BFD@sn3rd.com> <3CF5CFC6-57AA-42AB-A42F-260DF8DA159B@mnot.net> <4896A451-ECFE-482F-B672-E6B257DEE521@sn3rd.com> <035001d71d43$390bfbe0$ab23f3a0$@acm.org> <752FE4AC-970C-4362-8289-3F90EC373932@sn3rd.com> <025201d72074$768fa6e0$63aef4a0$@acm.org> <24684.52618.825991.504791@gro.dd.org> In-Reply-To: <24684.52618.825991.504791@gro.dd.org> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 15:08:38 -0700 Message-ID: <01b001d7349f$6408ed30$2c1ac790$@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHCuov1cAgKT1cuIXpcs9J/HHdlsQHKj9G8AYX3fIwCAOPl9gK6SlEmAXzIzBYClzH7nqqCvYZg Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Wpack] Call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges X-BeenThere: wpack@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Web Packaging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2021 22:08:49 -0000 > > Larry Masinter wrote: > > There are problems you are not solving because they're not in your > > charter or in your use cases, and not addressed by your initial > > starting point, and you've adopted some additional requirements around > > fitting into the existing web "security model" that I think are > > unattainable. > > This is potentially a very interesting area of work, Larry, and perhaps it is > indeed something the group should be looking at in more detail. Would you > please expand on these thoughts, and address whether any of the issues > you see somehow preclude aspects of the work already done? We might > not be able to address all possible use cases, but does the additional set of > use cases that you see somehow end up harmed by moving forward with > what we have? > > > I think the IETF needs another look at MIME multipart for > > multipart/related, multipart/form-data, multipart/signed, > > multipart/alternative and I'd hoped when I first heard of WPACK that > > you'd take those (and their use cases) on. > > We'd certainly welcome a draft, even skeletal, that captured some of your > ideas here so that the group could review. Can a Yasskin-bundeled-exchange be used as the basis for replacing MIME multipart In use cases that are deployed? In use cases that were intended (but didn't work out for various reasons)? Here's an outline with a few examples Mulripart/related Intended for: save web page to disk, send web-site/page by email, file sharing Drawbacks: Lacked a clear means of ensuring the package is "complete" and could be experienced offline and without any data leaking. Multipart/form-data Intended for: returning values from forms that include non-text data Drawbacks: doesn't define associated metadata for time-based media Multipart/alternative Intended for: Sending different representations in a single message so the receiver can select (forwarding content negotiation) Drawbacks: MIME types are insufficient for describing Capabilities, Characteristics, Preferences No standards for minimum capability to assume. Multipart/signed Intended for: sending signed email Drawbacks: lack of deployed infrastructure Many of the use cases involve email or file sharing. They are also about the web, not only because of the same supporting standards (HTML, CSS, URL, JavaScript) but also in the overlapping use cases between http/email/shared drive/rsync/git This not all the MIME multipart/ types, definitely not all of their use cases. Not all of the use cases are equally important, but a comparison would be warranted. -- https://LarryMasinter.net https://Interlisp.org From nobody Sun Apr 18 18:58:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42CBE3A182C for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 18:58:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=1CfCM8jg; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=eVRqdJxF Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q49ayuXENoGt for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 18:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82BA33A182B for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 18:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C9AF2065 for ; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 21:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap10 ([10.202.2.60]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 18 Apr 2021 21:57:54 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm2; bh=GgNxe 6oiI8bMqtK0k2EUGKyxSEGb7pnWq5qWlaBcL1c=; b=1CfCM8jgV6qzvfG8/1I7C zmAhT1Hn8c7cRxr44n1DnfHtTKnDOgNjB6Ntp07fS1JEEWbUZti3Bt8S66B+0l44 ZTG5Nvn+JYjFeI+XkghQ7MkJlhBavy1oFU7/nBK4X928rl+5WiI1idFW6ow7Pykl JDlxRCeY0WYpM2kdkPdxIUerRD6yzBIZnrlhc+DHqwUcxZ+0iDF9LIXCSYvZ4+w5 +c3RBnTb7YJskVaQTR+kRNONr/iFM6+4Pb63VWw0YLiRp87w0+AlRqGCorBQm18B IoG/e8uDUwUpMi9XON574Zugy85To/BTF7+m6+OBhuvhjntnbK0V+ISDCKpgabb0 g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=GgNxe6oiI8bMqtK0k2EUGKyxSEGb7pnWq5qWlaBcL 1c=; b=eVRqdJxFSHmQP3ze6KO0O0vhsbGHzlO8aJSUkdOe3UBmpA3Luq3xySlAX pNrc6cQ3+q8i0XH5U5DIPW8DLwWN0UydSB6fz0dnTF97TF036WnWalKQnIoTojn+ 5emIfmmTJTxen4hfmr+ePKDYzAF4GkkTEHKo2n4iELLRbEZajZaTaHM1dcNbHQ8+ hd6NqG25WH67ykVODurC4h4hyE0Ce4Y09rPudD+Zo6fwFxbxM5eHNkJb8euhgmwc pla2gG7Ve+G0y90kvoC1HfbkRKacc7Bw5M63eUZHQd0lmyAn6sb2kj1oLL5EvihH CccUzuU5ic7z0YBu+sOmMqZ6sc/pA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrvddtvddgkeeiucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtgfesth hqredtreerjeenucfhrhhomhepfdforghrthhinhcuvfhhohhmshhonhdfuceomhhtsehl ohifvghnthhrohhphidrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepffetgfevvdfhtdffhe ejudefhffhveehudefhffgleelteeifeegfefggfelhefgnecuffhomhgrihhnpehivght fhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhroh hmpehmtheslhhofigvnhhtrhhophihrdhnvght X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id A989C4E00DF; Sun, 18 Apr 2021 21:57:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-273-g8500d2492d-fm-20210323.002-g8500d249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <55163aad-e684-40b5-b578-b54df647bbaa@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0166AC00-FA11-4FE7-9735-E9023D7E50FB@sn3rd.com> References: <0166AC00-FA11-4FE7-9735-E9023D7E50FB@sn3rd.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 11:57:35 +1000 From: "Martin Thomson" To: wpack@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Wpack] Call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases X-BeenThere: wpack@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Web Packaging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 01:58:00 -0000 I don't think that spending time on this document is worth our time. Th= e reason we might adopt something is so that we can more concretely agre= e on more specific requirements. That agreement would be good, but I do= n't think we need a document for that purpose. Like Daniel, there are a number of things that I don't agree with in thi= s document. But I don't think that it is useful to spend the time worki= ng through those differences unless it relates to the product we plan to= ship. On Wed, Apr 14, 2021, at 23:29, Sean Turner wrote: > Hi! Part of our charter is =E2=80=9C[w]orking group adoption of use ca= ses=20 > document (will not be published as an RFC)=E2=80=9D. There has been bu= t one on=20 > offer: draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02 (note that -02 is identical to= =20 > -01 except for the publication dates). Therefore, this email starts th= e=20 > call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases-02. The I-D can be=20= > found here: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yasskin-wpack-use-cases/ >=20 > This adoption call will run until April 29, 2021 at 2359 UTC. Please=20= > indicate whether or not you would like to see this I-D adopted as a WG= =20 > item. Note that this is an adoption call for the draft as a starting=20= > point for the use case I-D. >=20 > Thanks, > spt (for the chairs) > _______________________________________________ > Wpack mailing list > Wpack@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wpack >=20 From nobody Tue Apr 27 10:12:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: wpack@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 067793A17C1 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:12:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aYVEqxhqoE-y for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x632.google.com (mail-pl1-x632.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::632]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9392E3A181B for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:12:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x632.google.com with SMTP id y1so15604978plg.11 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:12:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=k0Eu3k4O3j124hfEvyHFjXKUmFQ5FP8YagBQ+TiJDxs=; b=nRv8ExAhcd5VFvAnn19LCuCyi8sMW7/Q3qPYaF8n6Gv6GvMgC5zIPhkCfG0YbxVIuW dgb/1fwSsQQyM3KvOk8eqWxgTakgBMb3li9PJJdLmP7ZQQJoQyfmB1d5lIu0Y5Akhyxw Vut6TqX5jqrNNcLBT4fnwxV3fYReY9cuHIYU0a/ug5XYuFGR+S6jp24wJRNOAO2NME0H UsBTq+Rgj1Dl5Xr7cRkeXSLh03D33/q6uesopZlrhUf1GOSIPW3wD3XVk3/bKiizcM0A APpIgkwgxlJ9KbtG6SlefmJnF/0ykYaEJRYDTPSYVRdCKEHUcvkorm+4C+HC3HHIpyGh jMwA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=k0Eu3k4O3j124hfEvyHFjXKUmFQ5FP8YagBQ+TiJDxs=; b=riKTjhEfhq1k11Q2FkvyZZCXmeMSZ9M0L+HfPgHiPcs2Voea/fsE6tzj74DQSyTfJu yu09ZNG1bGORVEoS89S/XYtFgmBdBvZk7qe8X5lMqObkox+QWNxhpdX7tR8FPfaLfReL Yd/g+7bxwcX63DLl3+GFdrfpnCrWwIQa8nhIzIyrFKL6o8bjZJx7+XolLrSi/2sVIk44 9+Q8GOMGQWBC98Y1k/ePPGqBDcosYJ/Zj7AT/QUePTTO2s0jY31LDwxDgLweE55xfBuN Vig6cIhZ5+LfBYsulV7Z6VR2XD7vS+THQPOx8mlsKd6w5XKP+aRjQXEKYyf0jBIS4zmo LPpw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532P3RNHdN/+Q+3TjzuvmuwDZ1RILeE4vIMPqxd6WrwZzDnxfaYS ozCh7mTgUTfZlSL1PYBLgJVZFbscGQA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxDXITT8t2Lxu7vhmOhpq0WvWAVlJFuZNtKLMi58DpI5WhlfHbEEcaLbN+d+XXCIu8o8q6arg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:9405:: with SMTP id r5mr6262587pjo.139.1619543527001; Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TVPC (c-73-158-116-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.158.116.21]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w3sm2591564pjg.7.2021.04.27.10.12.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Larry Masinter From: Larry Masinter X-Google-Original-From: "Larry Masinter" To: "'Dave Lawrence'" Cc: "'WPACK List'" References: <0C5B1FE3-AB3E-4074-AED9-93DD10B89BFD@sn3rd.com> <3CF5CFC6-57AA-42AB-A42F-260DF8DA159B@mnot.net> <4896A451-ECFE-482F-B672-E6B257DEE521@sn3rd.com> <035001d71d43$390bfbe0$ab23f3a0$@acm.org> <752FE4AC-970C-4362-8289-3F90EC373932@sn3rd.com> <025201d72074$768fa6e0$63aef4a0$@acm.org> <24684.52618.825991.504791@gro.dd.org> <01b001d7349f$6408ed30$2c1ac790$@acm.org> In-Reply-To: <01b001d7349f$6408ed30$2c1ac790$@acm.org> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 10:12:04 -0700 Message-ID: <052e01d73b88$72bf7520$583e5f60$@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQHCuov1cAgKT1cuIXpcs9J/HHdlsQHKj9G8AYX3fIwCAOPl9gK6SlEmAXzIzBYClzH7ngH8d9X3qoC41cA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Wpack] Call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled-exchanges X-BeenThere: wpack@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Web Packaging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 17:12:25 -0000 Another use case I hope you will consider is how to repackage web pages that use "data:" URLs, or guidance for when that is not advisable. (RFC 2397) -- https://LarryMasinter.net https://interlisp.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Masinter On Behalf Of Larry Masinter > Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 3:09 PM > To: 'Dave Lawrence' > Cc: 'WPACK List' > Subject: RE: [Wpack] Call for adoption of draft-yasskin-wpack-bundled- > exchanges > > > > > Larry Masinter wrote: > > > There are problems you are not solving because they're not in your > > > charter or in your use cases, and not addressed by your initial > > > starting point, and you've adopted some additional requirements > > > around fitting into the existing web "security model" that I think > > > are unattainable. > > > > This is potentially a very interesting area of work, Larry, and > > perhaps it > is > > indeed something the group should be looking at in more detail. Would > > you please expand on these thoughts, and address whether any of the > > issues you see somehow preclude aspects of the work already done? We > > might not be able to address all possible use cases, but does the > > additional set > of > > use cases that you see somehow end up harmed by moving forward with > > what we have? > > > > > I think the IETF needs another look at MIME multipart for > > > multipart/related, multipart/form-data, multipart/signed, > > > multipart/alternative and I'd hoped when I first heard of WPACK that > > > you'd take those (and their use cases) on. > > > > We'd certainly welcome a draft, even skeletal, that captured some of > > your ideas here so that the group could review. > > Can a Yasskin-bundeled-exchange be used as the basis for replacing MIME > multipart In use cases that are deployed? > In use cases that were intended (but didn't work out for various reasons)? > > Here's an outline with a few examples > > Mulripart/related > Intended for: save web page to disk, send web-site/page by email, file > sharing > Drawbacks: Lacked a clear means of ensuring the package is "complete" > and > could be experienced offline and without any data leaking. > Multipart/form-data > Intended for: returning values from forms that include non-text data > Drawbacks: doesn't define associated metadata for time-based media > Multipart/alternative > Intended for: Sending different representations in a single message so the > receiver can select (forwarding content negotiation) > Drawbacks: MIME types are insufficient for describing Capabilities, > Characteristics, Preferences > No standards for minimum capability to assume. > Multipart/signed > Intended for: sending signed email > Drawbacks: lack of deployed infrastructure > > Many of the use cases involve email or file sharing. > They are also about the web, not only because of the same supporting > standards (HTML, CSS, URL, JavaScript) but also in the overlapping use cases > between http/email/shared drive/rsync/git > > This not all the MIME multipart/ types, definitely not all of their use cases. > Not all of the use cases are equally important, but a comparison would be > warranted. > -- > https://LarryMasinter.net https://Interlisp.org >