From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 03 05:36:06 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E0FfS-0005wm-CF; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 05:36:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E0FfL-0005qA-VU for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 05:36:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29294 for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2005 05:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E0GC0-0006Nr-Kw for XCON@ietf.org; Wed, 03 Aug 2005 06:09:45 -0400 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.123]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 8BB45519; Wed, 3 Aug 2005 11:35:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.172]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 3 Aug 2005 11:35:48 +0200 Received: from esealmw105.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.68]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 3 Aug 2005 11:35:48 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [XCON] Comments on draft-ietf-xcon-framework-01.txt Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 11:35:51 +0200 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ietf-xcon-framework-01.txt thread-index: AcWSJB6UcoV4MVLWSSavryDRfvFKogF6o8WQ From: "Oscar Novo (JO/LMF)" To: "Morgan, Dave" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Aug 2005 09:35:48.0458 (UTC) FILETIME=[BB0554A0:01C5980E] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1676547e4f33b5e63227e9c02bd359e3 Cc: X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1950584558==" Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1950584558== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5980E.BCA36F5E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5980E.BCA36F5E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi David, I think your comments about the framework-01 doc are really good and I = would like to give my opinion about some of them. In my case, I am doing = my Master's thesis in Conferencing and I have had some of these = questions during the last weeks. First of all, I agree with you about the different of "Blueprint" and = Template. They mean two different things and the framework is mixing = both terms. The definition of Template is well defined in the Section 2, = Conventions and Terminology, but Blueprint term is not well defined in = any part of the framework. About the proposes to change in Section 6.2 "Ad-hoc Example" the word = "copied" for "cloned" in the next paragraph: "The selected blueprint with its default values is copied by the client = into a newly created Conference Object, ..."=20 I think is very important to understand the different between clone and = copy. As I understand (at least in programming is like that), clone does = a shallow copy, not a deep copy. So it just returns a reference to the = original copy unlike in Deep copy where a duplicate instance is created. = Any changes made to the clone will be reflected in the original copy and = vice versa.=20 So, if you decide to write "cloned" instead of "copied" I think it is = very important to specify what exactly is doing the cloning and how it = works in the conference framework. I also agree with David about the big different between the SIPPING and = the XCON frameworks. One of the big different is the conference object = entity, looking to the draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework-05.txt = no conference object is described at all. It would be nice if the = authors of the frameworks iron out the major different between both = frameworks. Thanks Oscar Novo=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5980E.BCA36F5E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Comments on draft-ietf-xcon-framework-01.txt

Hi David,

I think your comments about the framework-01 doc are = really good=20 and I would like to give my opinion about some of them. In my case, I am = doing=20 my Master’s thesis in Conferencing and I have had some of these = questions during=20 the last weeks.

First of all, I agree with you about the different of=20 "Blueprint" and Template. They mean two different things and the = framework is=20 mixing both terms. The definition of Template is well defined in the = Section 2,=20 Conventions and Terminology, but Blueprint term is not well defined in = any part=20 of the framework.

About the proposes to change in Section 6.2 "Ad-hoc = Example" the=20 word "copied" for "cloned" in the next paragraph:

"The selected blueprint with its default values is = copied by the=20 client into a newly created Conference Object, …"

I think is very important to understand the different = between=20 clone and copy. As I understand (at least in programming is like that), = clone=20 does a shallow copy, not a deep copy. So it just returns a reference to = the=20 original copy unlike in Deep copy where a duplicate instance is created. = Any=20 changes made to the clone will be reflected in the original copy and = vice versa.=20

So, if you decide to write "cloned" instead of = "copied" I think=20 it is very important to specify what exactly is doing the cloning and = how it=20 works in the conference framework.

I also agree with David about the big different = between the=20 SIPPING and the XCON frameworks. One of the big different is the = conference=20 object entity, looking to the = draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework-05.txt=20 no conference object is described at all. It would be nice if the = authors of the=20 frameworks iron out the major different between both = frameworks.

Thanks

Oscar = Novo 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C5980E.BCA36F5E-- --===============1950584558== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon --===============1950584558==-- From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 04 08:33:33 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E0euj-0006Fj-4R; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:33:33 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E0euh-0006Fe-MM for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:33:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA01656 for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2005 08:33:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magus.nostrum.com ([69.5.195.2] helo=nostrum.com ident=root) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E0fRZ-0008HZ-RU for xcon@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Aug 2005 09:07:31 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (adam@magus.nostrum.com [10.10.10.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j74CXPM1032161 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Aug 2005 07:33:28 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <42F20B03.2010306@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 07:33:07 -0500 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XCON-IETF X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 10.10.10.2 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6d62ab47271805379d7172ee693a45db Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [XCON] Slides and Minutes X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org The slides and preliminary (raw) minutes are available at: http://www.softarmor.com/xcon/meets/ietf63/ /a _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Sun Aug 07 01:17:03 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E1dWw-0000Wk-DG; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:17:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E1dWt-0000Wf-7s for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:16:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA02366 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from atlrel9.hp.com ([156.153.255.214]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E1e4J-0001Qo-In for xcon@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2005 01:51:32 -0400 Received: from harvest.india.hp.com (harvest.india.hp.com [15.76.216.203]) by atlrel9.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D158AF86 for ; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from dutta@localhost) by harvest.india.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_29774)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) id LAA07621 for xcon@ietf.org; Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:00:22 +0530 (IST) From: BANIBRATA DUTTA Message-Id: <200508070530.LAA07621@harvest.india.hp.com> To: xcon@ietf.org Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 11:00:22 +0530 (IST) X-Mailer: ELM [2.4] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [XCON] media-id/mediaId outside of XCON X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Just wanted to know if media-id/MediaId as a header-parameter or as a concept in general exists outside the scope of XCON too? I came accross media-id recently, and on googling around found it's references predominantly in the XCON drafts. If someone could shed some light on the origin/purpose of this concept, or point me to some material on the same, it'd be of great help. thanks & regards, banibrata. _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 08 04:21:10 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E22sg-0003YL-NO; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 04:21:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E22sf-0003YD-CF for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 04:21:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA07276 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 04:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E23QI-0008JW-Hw for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 04:55:57 -0400 Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.120]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 28EBAD77 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:20:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.171]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:20:52 +0200 Received: from esealmw105.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.68]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:20:52 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [XCON] media-id/mediaId outside of XCON Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:20:50 +0200 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [XCON] media-id/mediaId outside of XCON thread-index: AcWbD2piCsR5d+35SiKg2ANseyrwCAA4qB8g From: "Oscar Novo (JO/LMF)" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2005 08:20:52.0190 (UTC) FILETIME=[171A07E0:01C59BF2] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Hi Banibrata, As I understand, the purpose of the MediaId concept is to allow = correlation between the media and the floor. The floor control protocol = uses these parameters to manage the access to a set of shared resources. = The floor control protocol (BFCP) = (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-bfcp-05.txt) is = defined by the XCON working group, that=B4s why you only find the = media-id parameter defined predominantly in the XCON draft or in = conferencing draft such as "A Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Event = Package for Conference State" defined by the SIPPING working group. Best Regards, Oscar Novo=20 -----Original Message----- From: xcon-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:xcon-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of BANIBRATA DUTTA Sent: 7. elokuuta 2005 8:30 To: xcon@ietf.org Subject: [XCON] media-id/mediaId outside of XCON Hi, Just wanted to know if media-id/MediaId as a header-parameter or as a = concept in general exists outside the scope of XCON too? I came accross media-id = recently, and on googling around found it's references predominantly in = the XCON drafts. If someone could shed some light on the origin/purpose of this concept, = or point me to some material on the same, it'd be of great help. thanks & regards, banibrata. _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 08 18:28:45 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2G6u-0004bO-V7; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:28:44 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2G6t-0004Z8-Hb for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:28:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29627 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 18:28:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magus.nostrum.com ([69.5.195.2] helo=nostrum.com ident=root) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2Gef-0000VD-5s for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:03:38 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (adam@magus.nostrum.com [10.10.10.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j78MSdH4074160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2005 17:28:40 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <42F7DC85.1060604@nostrum.com> Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 17:28:21 -0500 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xcon@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 10.10.10.2 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [XCON] Membership Manipulation: Need for Discussion X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org [as chair] In Paris, one of the clearly identified issues that needs to be closed before we can make significant progress was settling on a protocol for conference membership manipulation (and related operations). With Rohan withdrawing CPCP and Henning withdrawing Netconf as proposals, we are left with three proposals on the table: * CCCP (draft-levin-xcon-cccp-02) * CSCP (draft-jennings-xcon-cscp-01) * "Something SOAP Based" (no draft proposal) I would urge proponents of a SOAP-based proposal to create a draft discussing their approach as quickly as possible, since comparisons of approaches are otherwise very difficult. It would benefit the group greatly if we now had some discussion around these various protocols; this email is intended as a call for participation in that discussion. Any work that participants feel would be useful in helping with this decision -- such as strawman data models -- would also be welcome. /a _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 09 03:08:33 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2ODx-0004Nd-3L; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 03:08:33 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2ODv-0004NX-Jq for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 03:08:31 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA16173 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 03:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hq-smtp-01.telio.no ([82.196.203.118]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2Oll-0004rB-OX for xcon@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 03:43:31 -0400 Received: from office-owa-01.HQ.TELIO.NO (unknown [82.196.203.119]) by hq-smtp-01.telio.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A63A8194452 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 08:14:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.1.3] ([192.168.1.3]) by office-owa-01.HQ.TELIO.NO with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 9 Aug 2005 08:20:23 +0200 In-Reply-To: <42F7DC85.1060604@nostrum.com> References: <42F7DC85.1060604@nostrum.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Hisham Khartabil Subject: Re: [XCON] Membership Manipulation: Need for Discussion Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 08:14:34 +0200 To: Adam Roach X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Aug 2005 06:20:23.0916 (UTC) FILETIME=[6D20B2C0:01C59CAA] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: xcon@ietf.org X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org I would like to re propose CPCP. It is myself and Aki that are the authors. I dont think its fair that someone else's withdrawal is appropriate. Thanks, Hisham On Aug 9, 2005, at 12:28 AM, Adam Roach wrote: > [as chair] > > In Paris, one of the clearly identified issues that needs to be closed > before we can make significant progress was settling on a protocol for > conference membership manipulation (and related operations). > > With Rohan withdrawing CPCP and Henning withdrawing Netconf as > proposals, we are left with three proposals on the table: > > * CCCP (draft-levin-xcon-cccp-02) > * CSCP (draft-jennings-xcon-cscp-01) > * "Something SOAP Based" (no draft proposal) > > > I would urge proponents of a SOAP-based proposal to create a draft > discussing their approach as quickly as possible, since comparisons of > approaches are otherwise very difficult. > > It would benefit the group greatly if we now had some discussion > around these various protocols; this email is intended as a call for > participation in that discussion. Any work that participants feel > would be useful in helping with this decision -- such as strawman data > models -- would also be welcome. > > /a > > _______________________________________________ > XCON mailing list > XCON@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon > _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 09 12:54:41 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2XNB-0005tN-3q; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:54:41 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2XN9-0005tI-1F for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:54:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24025 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 12:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magus.nostrum.com ([69.5.195.2] helo=nostrum.com ident=root) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2Xv4-0006VI-4t for xcon@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:29:43 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (adam@magus.nostrum.com [10.10.10.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j79GsY2W054368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:54:35 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <42F8DFB9.7070105@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 11:54:17 -0500 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XCON-IETF X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 10.10.10.2 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Today begins a three-week working group last call period for the Conferencing Scenarios document: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-conference-scenarios-04.txt The chairs plan to submit the document to the IESG for consideration shortly after this last call closes unless substantial issues are discovered. This last call ends on August 31st. Comments should be directed to this mailing list. /a _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 09 13:05:22 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2XXW-0001N4-7i; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:05:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2XXU-0001Mu-Eg for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:05:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA24409 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 13:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from atlantis.osc.edu ([192.148.249.4] helo=email.osc.edu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2Y5Q-0006kI-44 for xcon@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 13:40:25 -0400 Received: from planwel (199-18-139-113.dhcp.columbus.oar.net [199.18.139.113]) by email.osc.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 69EB727C00F for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 13:05:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a7601c59d04$7f880da0$718b12c7@planwel> From: "Arif Khan" To: Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 13:05:09 -0400 Organization: OARnet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [XCON] MC7 - Call for Megaconference Presentations X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Arif Khan List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org You are invited to submit a proposed presentation for Megaconference 7, to be held on Dec 1, from 8am to 11pm EST (GMT-7). You can get an idea of the type of presentation and length desired by looking at last year's program, at http://www.megaconference.org . Presentations which demonstrate new or novel applications of videoconferencing technology, increase world understanding, and are interactive are preferred. Musical presentations are also invited. The deadline for proposals is October 1, but please send your proposal to me as soon as possible. A paragraph describing it is sufficient. The Megaconference is the world's largest video conference (360 locations around the world last year) and everyone in the world with H.323 or compatible equipment is invited to participate. The Megaconference is sponsored by the Internet2 Commons, and supported by many organizations and manufacturers and vendors. There is no cost for participation. Please forward this announcement to people and lists who you feel may be interested. Thanks! Bob -- Robert S. Dixon, Ph D, PE Chief Research Engineer Ohio Academic Resources Network (OARNet) and Ohio State University, Office of the CIO Postal address: Office Telephone: 614-292-1638 Office of the CIO Room 452 Baker Systems Engr Ohio State University Fax: 614-292-7081 1971 Neil Ave Email: Bob_Dixon@osu.edu Columbus, OH 43210 _____________________ Arif Khan Global Internet2 H.323 Services NOC OARnet - A Division of Ohio Supercomputer Center 800-627-6420 or 614-292-9191 614-292-9087 akhan@oar.net Ohio Supercomputer Center http://www.osc.edu OARnet http://www.oar.net Third Frontier Network http://www.osc.edu/oarnet/tfn/ Internet2 Commons http://commons.internet2.edu _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 09 16:53:56 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2b6i-0005LI-IB; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:53:56 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E2b6h-0005KY-An for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:53:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA13838 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 16:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from email.osc.edu ([192.148.249.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E2bee-0006qz-T0 for xcon@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:29:02 -0400 Received: from planwel (199-18-139-113.dhcp.columbus.oar.net [199.18.139.113]) by email.osc.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 0ECFF27C014 for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2005 16:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3cdb01c59d24$6e05e230$718b12c7@planwel> From: "Arif Khan" To: Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 16:53:43 -0400 Organization: OARnet MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Subject: [XCON] Online Collaboration X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Arif Khan List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1269734176==" Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1269734176== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_3CD8_01C59D02.E6D41000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_3CD8_01C59D02.E6D41000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings: We are trying to find out if some one has a lot of experience with = online=20 collaboration tools. We would like to have a speaker for a conference = in=20 November; who has perhaps worked on online collaboration tools -=20 specifically for visualization. If some one is interested or if you know = of=20 someone who can present some ideas on what characteristics such tools = need=20 to have to be effective. Please let me know. Thanks _____________________ Arif Khan Global Internet2 H.323 Services NOC OARnet - A Division of Ohio Supercomputer Center 800-627-6420 or 614-292-9191 614-292-9087 akhan@oar.net Ohio Supercomputer Center http://www.osc.edu OARnet http://www.oar.net Third Frontier Network http://www.osc.edu/oarnet/tfn/ Internet2 Commons http://commons.internet2.edu ------=_NextPart_000_3CD8_01C59D02.E6D41000 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings:

We are trying to find out if some one has a = lot of=20 experience with online
collaboration tools.  We would like to = have a=20 speaker for a conference in
November; who has perhaps worked on = online=20 collaboration tools -
specifically for visualization. If some one is = interested or if you know of
someone who can present some ideas on = what=20 characteristics such tools need
to have to be effective.  = Please let me=20 know.

Thanks
_____________________
Arif = Khan
Global=20 Internet2 H.323 Services NOC
OARnet - A Division of Ohio = Supercomputer=20 Center
800-627-6420 or 614-292-9191
614-292-9087
akhan@oar.net
Ohio Supercomputer = Center http://www.osc.edu
OARnet http://www.oar.net
Third Frontier = Network http://www.osc.edu/oarnet/tfn/
Internet2=20 Commons http://commons.internet2.edu
------=_NextPart_000_3CD8_01C59D02.E6D41000-- --===============1269734176== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon --===============1269734176==-- From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Thu Aug 11 12:56:05 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3GLd-0007c8-3p; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:56:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3GLa-0007c2-Vy for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:56:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13593 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:55:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maillnx-us112.fmr.com ([192.223.198.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E3Gts-0001xJ-5m for XCON@ietf.org; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:31:30 -0400 Received: from MSGMMKSM01WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM (MSGMMKSM01WIN.dmn1.fmr.com [10.33.139.32]) by maillnx-us112.fmr.com (Switch-3.1.2/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j7BGtkJx016485 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:55:46 -0400 Received: from MSGMMKIV01WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM (10.33.148.30) by MSGMMKSM01WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM (Sigaba Gateway v3.83) with ESMTP id 40484873; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:55:46 -0400 Received: from MSGMROIM01WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM ([172.26.2.194]) by MSGMMKIV01WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM with SMTP_server; Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:55:46 -0400 Received: from msgmroclm2win.fmr.com ([10.37.181.20]) by MSGMROIM01WIN.DMN1.FMR.COM with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:55:45 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:55:45 -0400 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Comments on Media Policy Templates Thread-Index: AcWelYRVWtQvSnhoS/abrU/qa09Fyg== From: "Morgan, Dave" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Aug 2005 16:55:45.0930 (UTC) FILETIME=[8471E6A0:01C59E95] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 83e9494d829b08cc3f644ef6ac1b9bd4 Cc: Subject: [XCON] Comments on Media Policy Templates X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2059078643==" Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2059078643== content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C59E95.844C88D2" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C59E95.844C88D2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris and Umesh,=20 I have some comments/questions regarding draft-boulton-xcon-media-template-01. =20 I see that the draft is currently under major revision, and that we should be thinking about the client controls, but first I think we need to do two things, so let me put this to the list for discussion. The first is to specify a common (grand unified) conference object data model that all the protocols can operate on. What we are doing in XCON is specifying the necessary XML definitions piecemeal with each draft. I think we should pull together the existing pieces into one data model and let the authors of the protocols use that model and request it to be extended as necessary. Once the data model and protocols are specified, then I think the client capabilities can be finalized. To me the client capabilities are like the capstone in the XCon WG, it should be the last thing to be finalized. I'm interested in other people's thoughts. =20 3.1.1, Description: In this section you say that in order for the participant to talk they need to get the floor. I think we need a requirement that covers the case where the floor is "open." That is how most conferences are today. Perhaps a moderator would start with an open floor and then turn on floor control when the participants get unruly. How many times have I wanted to do that? =20 3.1.2, Roles: I'm hung up on Roles, I think we need to agree on at least 4, 5, may 6 roles and make sure they are defined consistently throughout our documents. They are: participant, moderator, observer, presenter, and possibly creator and administrator. An observer could be a person (supervisor) or a machine (call logger or recording device). This is a "must have" role. We've bantered around "presenter" before. This is the person that has been granted the floor. I think we need a conference creator role. The creator may not be the moderator. They may be the secretary that sets up the meeting. The "creator" would only have access to the meeting they create. The administrator would have access to all the meetings. The administrator is the person at the help desk who manages the service. =20 3.1.3, Parameters: I don't like specifying a max value at all, never mind 128. That should be defined in the parent and inherited by the children. =20 3.2.4.4.MuteOutputAudio: I'd like to see a requirement or something in the conference policy where if there is an observer, such as a call recording device, where no one can mute its AudioOutput. To take this a step further, the conference policy should allow for recording to be: 1. not allowed, 2. mandatory, or 3. the moderator can turn it on and off. 3.5, Basic Test Template: Needs to be cleaned up, there are a number of cut and paste errors. 3.5.4.1 Should be titled "block-incoming-text" 3.5.5.1.1.1 Needs a better name, such as "Right to inject Text" I have a couple of suggestions for advanced video controls that I haven't seen discussed before. One would allow the participant to decide where he wants to view the other participants on their panel. So if there's 20 participants, I want to be able to see just four of them, the moderator, the presenter, perhaps another key participant, and my boss. =20 Another advanced video control would be to be able to see who is viewing me. So in the situation above I know who is watching me and when I need to put on my "happy face." I have a comment on the structure of the document. You list basic templates with their associated functionality and then advanced templates. The advanced features come across as "you must have these features in their entirety" to be advanced. I'm more inclined to list "minimum" features (you must have these), and optional features, where any one or combination of the features may or may not be employed by the media server. Nits: 3.1.7 "The schema in currently" should read "is currently" 3.3.4.3 "StopoutputText" should be "StopoutputVideo" Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------ David P. Morgan, PhD VP, Architecture & Planning Fidelity Investments Systems Company - Telecom Phone: 617 563-2178 Fax: 617 385 2122 Mailing: 82 Devonshire St, MZ V8C Boston, MA 02109-3614 Office: 245 Summer Street, 8th Floor ------_=_NextPart_001_01C59E95.844C88D2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Comments on Media Policy Templates

Chris and Umesh,

I have some comments/questions = regarding draft-boulton-xcon-media-template-01. 

I see that the draft is currently = under major revision, and that we should be thinking about the client = controls, but first I think we need to do two things, so let me put this = to the list for discussion.  The first is to specify a common = (grand unified) conference object data model that all the protocols can = operate on.  What we are doing in XCON is specifying the necessary = XML definitions piecemeal with each draft.  I think we should pull = together the existing pieces into one data model and let the authors of = the protocols use that model and request it to be extended as = necessary.  Once the data model and protocols are specified, then I = think the client capabilities can be finalized.  To me the client = capabilities are like the capstone in the XCon WG, it should be the last = thing to be finalized.   I’m interested in other = people’s thoughts. 

3.1.1, Description:  In this = section you say that in order for the participant to talk they need to = get the floor.  I think we need a requirement that covers the case = where the floor is “open.”  That is how most = conferences are today.  Perhaps a moderator would start with an = open floor and then turn on floor control when the participants get = unruly. How many times have I wanted to do that? 

3.1.2, Roles: I’m hung up on = Roles, I think we need to agree on at least 4, 5, may 6 roles and make = sure they are defined consistently throughout our documents.  They = are: participant, moderator, observer, presenter, and possibly creator = and administrator.  An observer could be a person (supervisor) or a = machine (call logger or recording device).  This is a “must = have” role.  We’ve bantered around = “presenter” before.  This is the person that has been = granted the floor.  I think we need a conference creator = role.  The creator may not be the moderator.  They may be the = secretary that sets up the meeting.  The “creator” = would only have access to the meeting they create.  The = administrator would have access to all the meetings.  The = administrator is the person at the help desk who manages the = service. 

3.1.3, Parameters: I don’t like = specifying a max value at all, never mind 128.  That should be = defined in the parent and inherited by the children.   =

3.2.4.4.MuteOutputAudio:  = I’d like to see a requirement or something in the conference = policy where if there is an observer, such as a call recording device, = where no one can mute its AudioOutput.  To take this a step = further, the conference policy should allow for recording to = be:

    1. not allowed,
    2. mandatory, or
    3. the moderator can turn it on and = off.

3.5, Basic Test Template: Needs to be = cleaned up, there are a number of cut and paste errors.

3.5.4.1 Should be titled = “block-incoming-text”

3.5.5.1.1.1 Needs a better name, such = as “Right to inject Text”

I have a couple of suggestions for = advanced video controls that I haven’t seen discussed = before.  One would allow the participant to decide where he wants = to view the other participants on their panel.  So if there’s = 20 participants, I want to be able to see just four of them, the = moderator, the presenter, perhaps another key participant, and my = boss. 

Another advanced video control would = be to be able to see who is viewing me.  So in the situation above = I know who is watching me and when I need to put on my “happy = face.”

I have a comment on the structure of = the document.  You list basic templates with their associated = functionality and then advanced templates.  The advanced features = come across as “you must have these features in their = entirety” to be advanced.  I’m more inclined to list = “minimum” features (you must have these), and optional = features, where any one or combination of the features may or may not be = employed by the media server.

Nits:
3.1.7 “The schema in = currently” should read “is currently”
3.3.4.3 “StopoutputText” = should be “StopoutputVideo”

Dave


----------------------------------------------------------= --------------
David P. Morgan, PhD
VP, Architecture = & Planning
Fidelity Investments = Systems Company - Telecom
Phone:  617 = 563-2178
Fax:      617 385 2122
Mailing: 82 = Devonshire St, MZ V8C
         &nbs= p;  Boston, MA 02109-3614
Office:   = 245 Summer Street, 8th Floor



------_=_NextPart_001_01C59E95.844C88D2-- --===============2059078643== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon --===============2059078643==-- From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 12 07:08:01 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3XOL-0002YY-Qo; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:08:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E3XOJ-0002Wx-Sk for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:08:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA16249 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-ext02.nokia.com ([131.228.20.94]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E3Xwn-0005YC-VT for xcon@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:43:39 -0400 Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext02.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j7CB7n1X008455; Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:07:53 +0300 Received: from esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.77]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:07:52 +0300 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([172.21.34.204]) by esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:03:28 +0300 Message-ID: <42FC8200.5090904@nokia.com> Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:03:28 +0300 From: Miguel Garcia User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es-es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XCON-IETF Subject: Re: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios References: <42F8DFB9.7070105@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <42F8DFB9.7070105@nostrum.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Aug 2005 11:03:28.0439 (UTC) FILETIME=[77EE7C70:01C59F2D] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: roni.even@polycom.co.il, nismail@cisco.com X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Hi: In general I am fine with this document. Perhaps my only concern is about the paragraph that discusses the Authentication of Participants in Section 3.5. This paragraph reads: Authenticate participants - A participant can authenticate other participants who want to join the conference. This can be done implicitly by assigning a password to the conference and letting the Conferencing System authenticate the new participants or explicitly by directing the authentication requests to the initiating participant who authenticates each participant. If we consider that authentication is the process of presenting an identity and verifying that it belongs to the entity that presents it, I don't see how a conference participant can ***authenticate*** other participants. Further more, I don't agree that "This can be done implicitly by assigning a password to the conference ... ". I think this paragraph is missing two or three things a) On one side, the conference system will typically authorize some users to joining the conference. This can be done by assigning a shared secret to the conference. The conference system requests the participants to show that they are in possession of the secret, as part of the authorization process, but still, the conference system may not know the identity of the participant (e.g., anonymous or unauthenticated participants). b) On another side, the Conference System may want (if possible) authenticate the participant. This can be done by the any of the various authentication mechanisms presents in SIP today (auth-body, P-Asserted-Identity, SAML, you name it). Note that this might not always be possible (e.g., the P-Asserted-Identity requires a trust domain that will not always be in place). And note also that this process is independent of having the shared secret to join the conference (e.g., the conference system authenticates me, but I don't know the id/password of the conference). c) A third issue is if a participant can authenticate another participant. And I see two ways to achieve this point: c.1) one is and out-of-band mechanism that involves the two participants directly (for example, auth-body or something like that). c.2) the other is, if one participant has been authenticated by Conference System, then the Conference System can inform of his authenticated identity (e.g., through the conference event package). Note that this requires some trust from the participant to the conference system. Comments? at least I think that the current text is quite misleading. Perhaps some explanation on the above lines will be useful. ---- Some typos as well: - s/Recoreders/Recorders - s/recored/recorded - s/aprticipant/participant - s/A participant is the conference may be/A participant in the conference may be/ Br, Miguel Adam Roach wrote: > Today begins a three-week working group last call period for the > Conferencing Scenarios document: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-conference-scenarios-04.txt > > > The chairs plan to submit the document to the IESG for consideration > shortly after this last call closes unless substantial issues are > discovered. This last call ends on August 31st. Comments should be > directed to this mailing list. > > /a > > _______________________________________________ > XCON mailing list > XCON@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon > -- Miguel A. Garcia tel:+358-50-4804586 sip:miguel.an.garcia@openlaboratory.net Nokia Research Center Helsinki, Finland _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 15 02:21:56 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E4YM8-00052y-1x; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 02:21:56 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E4YM5-00052q-2N for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 02:21:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA15272 for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 02:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw.polycom.co.il ([212.179.41.2] helo=isrexch01.israel.polycom.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E4Yv8-0006he-FB for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 02:58:07 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:23:02 +0300 Message-ID: <144ED8561CE90C41A3E5908EDECE315C02305ABA@IsrExch01.israel.polycom.com> Thread-Topic: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios Thread-Index: AcWfLkjKRIr++RpRTxiMYzTDG8jNggCMlZ7A From: "Even, Roni" To: "Miguel Garcia" , "XCON-IETF" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3a4bc66230659131057bb68ed51598f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: nismail@cisco.com X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Miguel, Thanks For the reading the drafts and finding the typos, I will fix them As for the comment. The document is a scenario document and not describing a solution. I can give you a simple way for the initiating participant to authenticate the joining users. The conference bridge will create a sidebar between the new participant the initiator who can ask the new participant or even see him in video conference. Another way can be based on the recorded name from the IVR before the user joins the conference.=20 Roni -----Original Message----- From: Miguel Garcia [mailto:Miguel.An.Garcia@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 2:03 PM To: XCON-IETF Cc: Even, Roni; nismail@cisco.com Subject: Re: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios Hi: In general I am fine with this document. Perhaps my only concern is about the paragraph that discusses the Authentication of Participants in Section 3.5. This paragraph reads: Authenticate participants - A participant can authenticate other participants who want to join the conference. This can be done implicitly by assigning a password to the conference and letting the Conferencing System authenticate the new participants or explicitly by directing the authentication requests to the initiating participant who authenticates each participant. If we consider that authentication is the process of presenting an identity and verifying that it belongs to the entity that presents it, I don't see how a conference participant can ***authenticate*** other participants. Further more, I don't agree that "This can be done implicitly by assigning a password to the conference ... ". I think this paragraph is missing two or three things a) On one side, the conference system will typically authorize some users to joining the conference. This can be done by assigning a shared secret to the conference. The conference system requests the participants to show that they are in possession of the secret, as part of the authorization process, but still, the conference system may not know the identity of the participant (e.g., anonymous or unauthenticated participants). b) On another side, the Conference System may want (if possible) authenticate the participant. This can be done by the any of the various authentication mechanisms presents in SIP today (auth-body, P-Asserted-Identity, SAML, you name it). Note that this might not always be possible (e.g., the P-Asserted-Identity requires a trust domain that will not always be in place). And note also that this process is independent of having the shared secret to join the conference (e.g., the conference system authenticates me, but I don't know the id/password of the conference). c) A third issue is if a participant can authenticate another participant. And I see two ways to achieve this point: c.1) one is and out-of-band mechanism that involves the two participants directly (for example, auth-body or something like that). c.2) the other is, if one participant has been authenticated by Conference System, then the Conference System can inform of his authenticated identity (e.g., through the conference event package).=20 Note that this requires some trust from the participant to the conference system. Comments? at least I think that the current text is quite misleading.=20 Perhaps some explanation on the above lines will be useful. ---- Some typos as well: - s/Recoreders/Recorders - s/recored/recorded - s/aprticipant/participant - s/A participant is the conference may be/A participant in the conference may be/ Br, Miguel Adam Roach wrote: > Today begins a three-week working group last call period for the=20 > Conferencing Scenarios document: >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-conference-scenarios -04.txt=20 >=20 >=20 > The chairs plan to submit the document to the IESG for consideration=20 > shortly after this last call closes unless substantial issues are=20 > discovered. This last call ends on August 31st. Comments should be=20 > directed to this mailing list. >=20 > /a >=20 > _______________________________________________ > XCON mailing list > XCON@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon >=20 --=20 Miguel A. Garcia tel:+358-50-4804586 sip:miguel.an.garcia@openlaboratory.net Nokia Research Center Helsinki, Finland _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 15 03:52:38 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E4Zlu-00078f-7q; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 03:52:38 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E4Zls-00078a-Eh for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 03:52:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA18869 for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 03:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mgw-ext02.nokia.com ([131.228.20.94]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E4aKy-0008Ul-0Q for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 04:28:52 -0400 Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext02.nokia.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j7F7qOsa018730; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:52:24 +0300 Received: from esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.28]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 15 Aug 2005 10:52:20 +0300 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([172.21.34.185]) by esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:43:31 +0300 Message-ID: <43003992.9050907@nokia.com> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:43:30 +0300 From: Miguel Garcia User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es-es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Even, Roni" Subject: Re: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios References: <144ED8561CE90C41A3E5908EDECE315C02305ABA@IsrExch01.israel.polycom.com> In-Reply-To: <144ED8561CE90C41A3E5908EDECE315C02305ABA@IsrExch01.israel.polycom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Aug 2005 06:43:31.0767 (UTC) FILETIME=[A6D47470:01C5A164] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ff9c467ad7f19c2a6d058acd7faaec8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: XCON-IETF , nismail@cisco.com X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Hi Roni: I agree with your use case. But I think the text in the draft is still misleading, it says that a participant can authenticate another participant "by assigning a password to the conference and letting the conferencing system authenticate the new participats". As I indicated in my previous e-mail, the password to the conference does nto generally authenticate the participant. In addition to this, I understand that the text in the draft is addressing the case where a participant wants to authenticate other participants (sidebar case that you mention). But does not cover other authentication cases, such us those I mentioned earlier. I believe those should be mentioned for completeness. BR, Miguel Even, Roni wrote: > Miguel, > Thanks > For the reading the drafts and finding the typos, I will fix them > > As for the comment. > The document is a scenario document and not describing a solution. I can > give you a simple way for the initiating participant to authenticate the > joining users. The conference bridge will create a sidebar between the > new participant the initiator who can ask the new participant or even > see him in video conference. Another way can be based on the recorded > name from the IVR before the user joins the conference. > > Roni > > -----Original Message----- > From: Miguel Garcia [mailto:Miguel.An.Garcia@nokia.com] > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 2:03 PM > To: XCON-IETF > Cc: Even, Roni; nismail@cisco.com > Subject: Re: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios > > Hi: > > In general I am fine with this document. Perhaps my only concern is > about the paragraph that discusses the Authentication of Participants in > Section 3.5. This paragraph reads: > > Authenticate participants - A participant can authenticate other > participants who want to join the conference. This can be done > implicitly by assigning a password to the conference and letting > the Conferencing System authenticate the new participants or > explicitly by directing the authentication requests to the > initiating participant who authenticates each participant. > > If we consider that authentication is the process of presenting an > identity and verifying that it belongs to the entity that presents it, I > don't see how a conference participant can ***authenticate*** other > participants. Further more, I don't agree that "This can be done > implicitly by assigning a password to the conference ... ". > > I think this paragraph is missing two or three things > > a) On one side, the conference system will typically authorize some > users to joining the conference. This can be done by assigning a shared > secret to the conference. The conference system requests the > participants to show that they are in possession of the secret, as part > of the authorization process, but still, the conference system may not > know the identity of the participant (e.g., anonymous or unauthenticated > participants). > > b) On another side, the Conference System may want (if possible) > authenticate the participant. This can be done by the any of the various > authentication mechanisms presents in SIP today (auth-body, > P-Asserted-Identity, SAML, you name it). Note that this might not always > be possible (e.g., the P-Asserted-Identity requires a trust domain that > will not always be in place). And note also that this process is > independent of having the shared secret to join the conference (e.g., > the conference system authenticates me, but I don't know the id/password > of the conference). > > c) A third issue is if a participant can authenticate another > participant. And I see two ways to achieve this point: > > c.1) one is and out-of-band mechanism that involves the two participants > directly (for example, auth-body or something like that). > > c.2) the other is, if one participant has been authenticated by > Conference System, then the Conference System can inform of his > authenticated identity (e.g., through the conference event package). > Note that this requires some trust from the participant to the > conference system. > > Comments? at least I think that the current text is quite misleading. > Perhaps some explanation on the above lines will be useful. > > ---- > > Some typos as well: > > - s/Recoreders/Recorders > - s/recored/recorded > - s/aprticipant/participant > - s/A participant is the conference may be/A participant in the > conference may be/ > > > Br, > > Miguel > > Adam Roach wrote: > > >>Today begins a three-week working group last call period for the >>Conferencing Scenarios document: >> >> > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-conference-scenarios > -04.txt > >> >>The chairs plan to submit the document to the IESG for consideration >>shortly after this last call closes unless substantial issues are >>discovered. This last call ends on August 31st. Comments should be >>directed to this mailing list. >> >>/a >> >>_______________________________________________ >>XCON mailing list >>XCON@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon >> > > -- Miguel A. Garcia tel:+358-50-4804586 sip:miguel.an.garcia@openlaboratory.net Nokia Research Center Helsinki, Finland _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 15 04:32:25 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E4aOP-0003Tv-DX; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 04:32:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E4aON-0003Ta-67 for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 04:32:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA20192 for ; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 04:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw.polycom.co.il ([212.179.41.2] helo=isrexch01.israel.polycom.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E4axS-0000lY-MO for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 05:08:39 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 11:33:27 +0300 Message-ID: <144ED8561CE90C41A3E5908EDECE315C02305B52@IsrExch01.israel.polycom.com> Thread-Topic: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios Thread-Index: AcWhbny0lC09xTEnTxqbp34KEbhECQAA+lkw From: "Even, Roni" To: "Miguel Garcia" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 995b2e24d23b953c94bac5288c432399 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: XCON-IETF , nismail@cisco.com X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Miguel, I think that we are talking about the same thing and the text in the document is using the wrong terminology. I would try to present the cases of authorization and authentication as you mentioned in your case a,b and c. Roni =20 -----Original Message----- From: Miguel Garcia [mailto:Miguel.An.Garcia@nokia.com]=20 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 9:44 AM To: Even, Roni Cc: XCON-IETF; nismail@cisco.com Subject: Re: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios Hi Roni: I agree with your use case. But I think the text in the draft is still misleading, it says that a participant can authenticate another participant "by assigning a password to the conference and letting the conferencing system authenticate the new participats". As I indicated in my previous e-mail, the password to the conference does nto generally authenticate the participant. In addition to this, I understand that the text in the draft is addressing the case where a participant wants to authenticate other participants (sidebar case that you mention). But does not cover other authentication cases, such us those I mentioned earlier. I believe those should be mentioned for completeness. BR, Miguel Even, Roni wrote: > Miguel, > Thanks > For the reading the drafts and finding the typos, I will fix them >=20 > As for the comment. > The document is a scenario document and not describing a solution. I can > give you a simple way for the initiating participant to authenticate the > joining users. The conference bridge will create a sidebar between the > new participant the initiator who can ask the new participant or even > see him in video conference. Another way can be based on the recorded > name from the IVR before the user joins the conference.=20 >=20 > Roni >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Miguel Garcia [mailto:Miguel.An.Garcia@nokia.com]=20 > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 2:03 PM > To: XCON-IETF > Cc: Even, Roni; nismail@cisco.com > Subject: Re: [XCON] WGLC: Conferencing Scenarios >=20 > Hi: >=20 > In general I am fine with this document. Perhaps my only concern is > about the paragraph that discusses the Authentication of Participants in > Section 3.5. This paragraph reads: >=20 > Authenticate participants - A participant can authenticate other > participants who want to join the conference. This can be done > implicitly by assigning a password to the conference and letting > the Conferencing System authenticate the new participants or > explicitly by directing the authentication requests to the > initiating participant who authenticates each participant. >=20 > If we consider that authentication is the process of presenting an > identity and verifying that it belongs to the entity that presents it, I > don't see how a conference participant can ***authenticate*** other > participants. Further more, I don't agree that "This can be done > implicitly by assigning a password to the conference ... ". >=20 > I think this paragraph is missing two or three things >=20 > a) On one side, the conference system will typically authorize some > users to joining the conference. This can be done by assigning a shared > secret to the conference. The conference system requests the > participants to show that they are in possession of the secret, as part > of the authorization process, but still, the conference system may not > know the identity of the participant (e.g., anonymous or unauthenticated > participants). >=20 > b) On another side, the Conference System may want (if possible) > authenticate the participant. This can be done by the any of the various > authentication mechanisms presents in SIP today (auth-body, > P-Asserted-Identity, SAML, you name it). Note that this might not always > be possible (e.g., the P-Asserted-Identity requires a trust domain that > will not always be in place). And note also that this process is > independent of having the shared secret to join the conference (e.g., > the conference system authenticates me, but I don't know the id/password > of the conference). >=20 > c) A third issue is if a participant can authenticate another > participant. And I see two ways to achieve this point: >=20 > c.1) one is and out-of-band mechanism that involves the two participants > directly (for example, auth-body or something like that). >=20 > c.2) the other is, if one participant has been authenticated by > Conference System, then the Conference System can inform of his > authenticated identity (e.g., through the conference event package).=20 > Note that this requires some trust from the participant to the > conference system. >=20 > Comments? at least I think that the current text is quite misleading.=20 > Perhaps some explanation on the above lines will be useful. >=20 > ---- >=20 > Some typos as well: >=20 > - s/Recoreders/Recorders > - s/recored/recorded > - s/aprticipant/participant > - s/A participant is the conference may be/A participant in the > conference may be/ >=20 >=20 > Br, >=20 > Miguel >=20 > Adam Roach wrote: >=20 >=20 >>Today begins a three-week working group last call period for the=20 >>Conferencing Scenarios document: >> >> >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-conference-scenarios > -04.txt=20 >=20 >> >>The chairs plan to submit the document to the IESG for consideration=20 >>shortly after this last call closes unless substantial issues are=20 >>discovered. This last call ends on August 31st. Comments should be=20 >>directed to this mailing list. >> >>/a >> >>_______________________________________________ >>XCON mailing list >>XCON@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon >> >=20 >=20 --=20 Miguel A. Garcia tel:+358-50-4804586 sip:miguel.an.garcia@openlaboratory.net Nokia Research Center Helsinki, Finland _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 17 06:50:49 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E5LVR-00030d-Lv; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 06:50:49 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E5LVN-0002xO-Gt for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 06:50:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA20848 for ; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 06:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E5M4s-00032n-Gf for XCON@ietf.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:27:28 -0400 Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.122]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 8B69D2616; Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:50:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.173]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:50:37 +0200 Received: from esealmw105.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.68]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:50:37 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5A319.7A7253F0" Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:50:27 +0200 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes Thread-Topic: Specification of a unified conference object data Thread-Index: AcWjGX+veFrMSHt0TW2glrvPV0alaQ== From: "Oscar Novo (JO/LMF)" To: , "Morgan, Dave" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Aug 2005 10:50:37.0053 (UTC) FILETIME=[803712D0:01C5A319] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 539f8b288ab42db633e5c7cf1c34fca1 Cc: Subject: [XCON] Specification of a unified conference object data X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5A319.7A7253F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everybody,=20 As Dave said in a previous e-mail, the first thing we should do is to = specify a common conference object data model that all the protocols can = operate on. These days, I have tried to do this. I have collected some = XCON and SIPPING drafts that specify some elements of the data model and = give the XML definitions and I've tried to unify all the pieces creating = one data model. Now, we can discuss this data model in the mailing list = and you can expose your questions about the model (you think I miss some = important draft, we have to add some important functionality, etc...).=20 You have a pdf version of the document I have created. If somebody can = not read pdf documents in his/her computer, please, contact me and I can = provide a different format of the document. 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megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E69ur-0003I0-9F; Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:40:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1E69ul-0003Cs-VQ; Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:40:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14139; Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [132.151.6.50] (helo=newodin.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1E6AUl-0006jy-Ek; Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:17:31 -0400 Received: from apache by newodin.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1E69ul-00068D-B2; Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:40:19 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Message-Id: Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:40:19 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Cc: xcon@ietf.org Subject: [XCON] Last Call: 'The Binary Floor Control Protocol (BFCP)' to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: iesg@ietf.org List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org The IESG has received a request from the Centralized Conferencing WG to consider the following document: - 'The Binary Floor Control Protocol (BFCP) ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send any comments to the iesg@ietf.org or ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2005-09-02. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-bfcp-05.txt _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Wed Aug 31 09:21:45 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EASXB-0002HF-Kl; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:21:45 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EASX9-0002GV-V9 for xcon@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:21:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20159 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fw.polycom.co.il ([212.179.41.2] helo=isrexch01.israel.polycom.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EASYt-0005m4-Qw for XCON@ietf.org; Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:23:32 -0400 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:22:53 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Message-ID: <144ED8561CE90C41A3E5908EDECE315C0247F8EB@IsrExch01.israel.polycom.com> Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ietf-xcon-framework-01.txt Thread-Index: AcWSJB6UcoV4MVLWSSavryDRfvFKogcCm5ww From: "Even, Roni" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6907f330301e69261fa73bed91449a20 Cc: Subject: [XCON] Comments on draft-ietf-xcon-framework-01.txt X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0435213434==" Sender: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0435213434== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C5AE2F.180D74B5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5AE2F.180D74B5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I read the document and find in good shape that will enable to finish the open issues. My comments are more on editorial so I will have them as a one list. If any of them will need to be discussed, I can create a separate email. =20 =20 1. In the document you are using in some places call control signaling and in others call signaling.=20 My suggestion is to use call signaling. =20 2. In figure 1 there is call control client - suggest call signaling client. =20 3. In figure 1 suggest changing conference control client to conference and media control client. =20 4. In section 4.1 "The basic common conference information can be represented using the conference-info-type schema as defined in" should be "conference-info type" =20 5. In section 4.1, I suggest to add to the conference common information also the media semantics and refer to draft-hautakorpi-mmusic-sdp-media-content-01. =20 6. Section 5.1 discuss the conference identifier and claims that the factory creates it. Using a factory is only one method to create the conference URI. =20 7. In section 5.2 you have "each of them accessible by a Call Control protocol" what is call control protocol =20 8. Section 5.4 present the conference user identifier. There should be an association between this identifier and the user element in the event package so that the users in the conference can be identified in the notifications. Maybe you can explain how the user identifier is created in the example in 6.2 and explain the connection to the user element in the event package. =20 9. In section 6.4 you describe manipulation within a series range of conferences. You describe that a new iCAL arrives which changes in only part of the occurrence. Creating a clone defines the new occurrences but what about the original reservation that has the original times, how do you prevent them from being scheduled. You need to either change the iCAL information for the original reservation or to have just the iCAL linked, using a linked list, to the conference identifier without cloning and let the system calculate the right time.=20 =20 10. Section 8.3 discuss sidebar is it possible to have a participant in audio sidebar and see the presentation from the main conference. Does this fall under the mechanism where the sidebar gets a main conference media stream, suggest to mention that a sidebar may have own media mixes and main conference media for other media streams. =20 =20 Typos: =20 In section 6: capabilites In section 8.1 it should be figure 10 instead of figure 11. In section 10: specificiations =20 =20 Roni Even ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5AE2F.180D74B5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Comments on draft-ietf-xcon-framework-01.txt
Hi,
I read=20 the document and find in good shape that will enable to finish the open=20 issues.
My=20 comments are more on editorial so I will have them as a one list. If any = of them=20 will need to be discussed, I can create a separate = email.
 
 

1. In the document you are = using in some=20 places call control signaling and in others call signaling.

      My = suggestion is=20 to use call signaling.

 

2. In figure 1 there is call = control=20 client – suggest call signaling client.

 

3. In figure 1 suggest = changing=20 conference control client to conference and media control client.

 

4. In section 4.1 “The = basic common=20 conference information can be represented using the

   conference-info-type = schema as=20 defined in” should be “conference-info type”

 

5. In section 4.1, I suggest = to add to=20 the conference common information also the media semantics and refer to=20 draft-hautakorpi-mmusic-sdp-media-content-01.

 

6.  Section 5.1 discuss the = conference=20 identifier and claims that the factory creates it. Using a factory is = only one=20 method to create the conference URI.

 

7. In section 5.2 you have = “each of them=20 accessible by a Call Control protocol” what is call control = protocol

 

8. Section 5.4 = present the=20 conference user identifier. There should be an association between this=20 identifier and the user element in the event package so that the users = in the=20 conference can be identified in the notifications. Maybe you can explain = how the=20 user identifier is created in the example in 6.2 and explain the = connection to=20 the user element in the event package.

 

9.  In section 6.4 you describe = manipulation=20 within a series range of conferences. You describe that a new iCAL = arrives which=20 changes in only part of the occurrence. Creating a clone defines the new = occurrences but what about the original reservation that has the = original times,=20 how do you prevent them from being scheduled. You need to either change = the iCAL=20 information for the original reservation or to have just the iCAL = linked, using=20 a linked list, to the conference identifier without cloning and let the = system=20 calculate the right time.

 

10. Section 8.3 = discuss sidebar=20 is it possible to have a participant in audio sidebar and see the = presentation=20 from the main conference. Does this fall under the mechanism where the = sidebar=20 gets a main conference media stream, suggest to mention that a sidebar = may have=20 own media mixes and main conference media for other media streams.

 

 

Typos:

 

In section 6:  capabilites

In section 8.1 it = should be=20 figure 10 instead of figure 11.

In section 10:=20 specificiations

 

 

Roni=20 Even

------_=_NextPart_001_01C5AE2F.180D74B5-- --===============0435213434== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon --===============0435213434==--