From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 01 08:24:25 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCbvG-0001G7-QE; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:24:18 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCbvF-0001Dk-6U for xcon@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:24:17 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCbv7-0004Ni-FN for xcon@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:24:17 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 4D355206F0; Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:23:50 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-afed3bb0000007e1-8b-45c1e9e65ef1 Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.123]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 334FD20071; Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:23:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.174]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:23:50 +0100 Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.50]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:23:49 +0100 Received: from [131.160.36.100] (EH3I2003TGFCPET-131160036100.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.36.100]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85182374; Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:23:49 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <45C1E9E4.4050508@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:23:48 +0200 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Srivatsa Srinivasan Subject: Re: [XCON] Policies in the data model References: <45B84760.2060502@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2007 13:23:49.0911 (UTC) FILETIME=[35C2A270:01C74604] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: "'Dave.Morgan@fmr.com'" , "'roni.even@polycom.co.il'" , 'XCON' X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Hi, > But, adopting a generic model for the entire schema without > specifying the applicability can be quite disastrous for inter-op. As far as I know, nobody has proposed not to specify the applicability of the model. > How would this model solve some of the following: > > - What if one feature maps to one or more XML sub-elements? one would need to define access rights for all the sub-elements. > - What if one or more features map to the same XML sub-elements and > there are differing restrictions to those? the model covers that, since different users or groups can have different access rights. > > - What if one feature maps to a certain sub-element of the data model > and also to one or more commands (over the control protocol)? I will start a new email thread on this issue because it is the old discussion between having syntactic or semantic approaches. It is essential that we decide which model to use in order to make progress. Cheers, Gonzalo _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 01 08:40:02 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCcAT-0002Xd-Cu; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:40:01 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCcAS-0002XY-I3 for xcon@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:40:00 -0500 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HCcAK-0004TC-Ue for xcon@ietf.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2007 08:40:00 -0500 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 2464F20873 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:39:50 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-b1fccbb0000007de-dc-45c1eda68566 Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.122]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 1620220809 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:39:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.177]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:39:49 +0100 Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.50]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:37:58 +0100 Received: from [131.160.36.100] (EH3I2003TGFCPET-131160036100.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.36.100]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDD52374 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2007 15:37:58 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <45C1ED36.5080706@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:37:58 +0200 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XCON Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2007 13:37:58.0799 (UTC) FILETIME=[2FBCA9F0:01C74606] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Subject: [XCON] Semantic vs. Syntactic X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Hi, some time ago, we had discussions on whether the conference control protocol should follow a semantic approach (e.g., add user Bob to the conference) or a syntactic approach (e.g., add the element Bob to the XML tree describing the conference at a given location). We decided to first agree of the data model and, only after having a stable data model, work on the conference control protocol. However, when working on the part of the data model dealing with policies, we face the same issue. We can define access rights to the XML tree describing a conference in a syntactic way (e.g., user Bob can modify the value of element ) or in a semantic way (e.g., user Bob is allowed to add users to the conference). We need to decide which model we want to use, since this will influence both the data model and the conference control protocol to be developed. Personally, I lean towards following a semantic approach. This is because if we tried and followed a syntactic approach, we would most likely end up defining a generic mechanism to manipulate XML documents by users with different access rights. Such a mechanism would, in my opinion, be well outside the scope of XCON. Of course, an alternative would be to use an already-defined syntactic approach for XML document manipulation... but the XCAP-based approach proposed some time ago was not very successful within the community... Comments? Thanks, Gonzalo _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 02 17:15:08 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HD6gV-0002lY-Pg; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 17:15:07 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HD6gU-0002lM-0u for xcon@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 17:15:06 -0500 Received: from shaman.nostrum.com ([72.232.15.10] helo=nostrum.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HD6gS-0000Vw-Ot for xcon@ietf.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2007 17:15:06 -0500 Received: from [172.17.2.61] (vicuna-alt.estacado.net [75.53.54.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l12MF3BX021340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 2 Feb 2007 16:15:03 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) Message-ID: <45C3B7E9.8010403@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 16:15:05 -0600 From: Adam Roach User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XCON-IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 75.53.54.121 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: Alan Johnston Subject: [XCON] Agenda Requests X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org If you wish to have agenda time at the upcoming meeting in Prague, please send an agenda request to me and Alan as soon as possible, but no later than February 28th in any case. Also, please note the upcoming draft submission deadlines: * February 26, Monday: Internet Draft Cut-off for initial document (-00) submission by 09:00 ET (14:00 UTC/GMT) * March 5, Monday: Internet Draft final submission cut-off by 09:00 ET (14:00 UTC/GMT) Thanks. /a _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 26 15:46:07 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HLmjV-0003p2-Id; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:46:05 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HLmjU-0003nj-41 for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:46:04 -0500 Received: from zcars04e.nortel.com ([47.129.242.56]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HLmjS-0005Bq-Nw for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:46:04 -0500 Received: from zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com (zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com [47.103.123.72]) by zcars04e.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id l1QKbru28165 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:37:53 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C759E7.1F3E1797" Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:45:59 -0600 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.txt thread-index: AcdPvpNa0HQw60I0RZeHpE8X5zeVjAKJ4Aaw From: "Mary Barnes" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9a2be21919e71dc6faef12b370c4ecf5 Subject: [XCON] FW: I-D ACTION:draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.txt X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C759E7.1F3E1797 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,=20 We've submitted an update to the CCMP SOAP based protocol proposal. This document combines the original proposal that Chris and I put forth the end of 2005 with Henning's parallel proposal for a SOAP based protocol. It's still very preliminary and certainly can't be completed until we complete the data model, etc. =20 We recognize that the current WG direction is to complete the data model and then work towards defining the necessary operations before deciding upon an explicit protocol, so we're just putting this out for discussion at this point in time. For myself, working through this has provided a useful basis for positions on some of the outstanding questions with regards to the nature of the protocol (syntactic versus semantic) and the definition of roles within the data model. I'll respond to those threads separately.=20 Mary -----Original Message----- From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org]=20 Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 2:50 PM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts=20 directories. Title : Centralized Conferencing Manipulation Protocol Author(s) : M. Barnes, et al. Filename : draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2007-2-13 =09 The Centralized Conferencing Manipulation Protocol (CCMP) defined in this document provides the mechanisms to create, change and delete objects related to centralized conferences, including participants, their media and their roles. The protocol relies on web services and SIP event notification as its infrastructure, but can control conferences that use any signaling protocol to invite users. CCMP is based on the Simple Object Access Protocol (SOAP), with the data necessary for the interactions specified via Web Services Description Language (WSDL). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to=20 i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of=20 the message.=20 You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce=20 to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the=20 username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After=20 logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then=20 "get draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html=20 or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.txt". =09 NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C759E7.1F3E1797 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.URL" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.URL Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-barnes-xcon-ccmp-02.URL" W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9ZnRwOi8vZnRwLmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0 cy9kcmFmdC1iYXJuZXMteGNvbi1jY21wLTAyLnR4dA0K ------_=_NextPart_001_01C759E7.1F3E1797 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon ------_=_NextPart_001_01C759E7.1F3E1797-- From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 26 15:48:16 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HLmlc-0005Cu-SO; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:48:16 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HLmlb-0005Bx-M1 for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:48:15 -0500 Received: from zrtps0kp.nortel.com ([47.140.192.56]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HLmla-0005SR-CA for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:48:15 -0500 Received: from zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com (zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com [47.103.123.72]) by zrtps0kp.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id l1QKmBR04565; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:48:12 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [XCON] Semantic vs. Syntactic Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:48:02 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <45C1ED36.5080706@ericsson.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [XCON] Semantic vs. Syntactic thread-index: AcdGBplN1Y/lzFE3TXO/sA8wuQMarQT4KBKg From: "Mary Barnes" To: "Gonzalo Camarillo" , "XCON" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org I've not seen any other responses to this thread, but I agree with the semantic approach. Mary -----Original Message----- From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 7:38 AM To: XCON Subject: [XCON] Semantic vs. Syntactic Hi, some time ago, we had discussions on whether the conference control protocol should follow a semantic approach (e.g., add user Bob to the conference) or a syntactic approach (e.g., add the element Bob to the XML tree describing the conference at a given location). We decided to first agree of the data model and, only after having a stable data model, work on the conference control protocol. However, when working on the part of the data model dealing with policies, we face the same issue. We can define access rights to the XML tree describing a conference in a syntactic way (e.g., user Bob can modify the value of element ) or in a semantic way (e.g., user Bob is allowed to add users to the conference). We need to decide which model we want to use, since this will influence both the data model and the conference control protocol to be developed. Personally, I lean towards following a semantic approach. This is because if we tried and followed a syntactic approach, we would most likely end up defining a generic mechanism to manipulate XML documents by users with different access rights. Such a mechanism would, in my opinion, be well outside the scope of XCON. Of course, an alternative would be to use an already-defined syntactic approach for XML document manipulation... but the XCAP-based approach proposed some time ago was not very successful within the community... Comments? Thanks, Gonzalo _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 26 17:20:52 2007 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HLoDE-0005MC-FO; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:20:52 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HLnqA-0008VK-TB for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:57:02 -0500 Received: from zrtps0kn.nortel.com ([47.140.192.55]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HLnJX-0001p5-66 for xcon@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:23:21 -0500 Received: from zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com (zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com [47.103.123.72]) by zrtps0kn.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id l1QL0Co02500; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:00:12 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [XCON] Policies in the data model Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:00:09 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <45B84760.2060502@ericsson.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [XCON] Policies in the data model thread-index: AcdARowo04LOqM0eTt+chc8scRl+4gZojCjA From: "Mary Barnes" To: "Gonzalo Camarillo" , "XCON" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Cc: Dave.Morgan@fmr.com, roni.even@polycom.co.il X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org I realize this thread spawned into the semantic vs syntactic, but wanted to explicitly respond that I think the proposal for handling the role concept with more general groups is okay. We did attempt to define the role concept in the CCMP document, but I can see the value in having this be less explicit and agree that it can be accomplished by assigning rights to groups. =20 Mary -----Original Message----- From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:00 AM To: XCON Cc: Dave.Morgan@fmr.com; roni.even@polycom.co.il Subject: [XCON] Policies in the data model Hi, we are preparing a new revision of the data model draft and would like to discuss how to encode policies. The current revision of the draft uses the concept of roles, which are ordered by their predefined priority. Each element in the data model have a read-only and a read-write attributes that specify which is the minimum priority (i.e., role) a user needs to read or modify, respectively, the contents of the element. We believe that the roles are not defined clearly enough in the draft and that we need a more flexible way to convey policies in conference documents. Our proposal would be to remove the concept of ordered roles and use unordered groups instead. It would be possible, then, to assign different rights to different groups. Another thing we would like to have is documents whose policies are easy to read (and understand) by humans. Therefore, we would like to be able to assign a certain policy to the main elements of the data model (i.e., the elements directly under the element) and only be able to make it stricter (i.e., not to relax it) for their child elements. This way, by simply checking the main elements, it will be easy to understand whether or not the policy in the document meets the policy requirements of the conference's administrator. The resulting XML format would be something like this: 2 3 bob 3 [contents of sub-element-1] bob [contents of sub-element-2] [contents of sub-element-3] In the example above, the contents of can be modified by users in group 2 and Bob, the contents of can be modified by users in groups 2 and 3, and the contents of can be modified by users in groups 2 and 3, and Bob. Comments? Cheers, Gonzalo _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon