From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 13:31:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izz26-000854-Kt; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:31:42 -0500 Received: from xcon by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Izz25-0007ri-6L for xcon-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:31:41 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izz23-0007mx-4C for xcon@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:31:40 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Izz21-00052a-NR for xcon@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:31:39 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 4761020599 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:31:37 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b1ea5bb00000459d-74-4756ee8910ba Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.123]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 2EE8820006 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:31:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw105.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.68]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:31:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:28:05 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4741CA4F.80901@nostrum.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Roles in the data model Thread-Index: Acgq0vIDWvhqApxaRLWNtIGnsy3hSQMlKoSQ References: <4741CA4F.80901@nostrum.com> From: "Oscar Novo" To: "XCON-IETF" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 18:31:36.0967 (UTC) FILETIME=[11CD0170:01C8376D] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Subject: [XCON] Roles in the data model X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Continuing yesterday's discussion about roles... I still don't see the utility to define some tokens in the data model. I really think the definition of those roles will depend very much of the definition of the policy in the data model. If the data model defines a bunch of tokens without defining the semantic of them it can cause big confusion for many reader. The definition of those tokens will have implicit a semantic. For instance, the token 'observer' has a semantic implicit but I'm sure that semantic differs from different people.=20 My proposal here is to work on this problem in the policy document or in a different document. If we decide to work in a different document there is a very old document (http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-morgan-xcon-roles-00.txt) which tries to define the role semantic in XCON. I think that document could be a base to start discussing about roles rather than the data model. If the WG still thinks is essential the definition of the roles in the data model I would suggest the definitions of the roles to be numerical rather than textual to avoid semantic conflict. The roles definition could be only simple integers starting from '0', having the '0' role more permissions than the '1' role.=20 Comments? Oscar =20 _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 13:43:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzDL-0005hw-05; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:43:19 -0500 Received: from xcon by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzDK-0005hn-BP for xcon-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:43:18 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzDK-0005hd-1R for xcon@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:43:18 -0500 Received: from webmail2.unina.it ([192.132.34.153] helo=oldwebmail.unina.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzDH-000696-Lc for xcon@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:43:18 -0500 Received: from oldwebmail.unina.it (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by oldwebmail.unina.it (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id lB5IwPDn003433; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:58:25 +0100 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by oldwebmail.unina.it (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id lB5IwPGG003432; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:58:25 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: oldwebmail.unina.it: nobody set sender to lorenzo.miniero@unina.it using -f Received: from dhcp-11c3.ietf70.org (dhcp-11c3.ietf70.org [130.129.17.195]) by oldwebmail.unina.it (IMP) with HTTP for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:58:25 +0100 Message-ID: <1196881105.4756f4d12ace3@oldwebmail.unina.it> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:58:25 +0100 From: Lorenzo Miniero To: Oscar Novo Subject: Re: [XCON] Roles in the data model References: <4741CA4F.80901@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 X-Originating-IP: 130.129.17.195 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by oldwebmail.unina.it id lB5IwPDn003433 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Cc: XCON-IETF X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org I'm not sure an integer like that would solve the problem... A might have= more permissions upon X than B, but B might have more permissions upon Y than = A. It surely works if we consider that participant < moderator < administrator,= but there could be fuzzy roles in between. Lorenzo --=20 Lorenzo Miniero, Junior Researcher Dipartimento di Informatica e Sistemistica Universit=E0 degli Studi di Napoli "Federico II" Via Claudio 21 -- 80125 Napoli (Italy) Phone: +390817683821 - Fax: +390817683816 Email: lorenzo.miniero@unina.it Scrive Oscar Novo : > Continuing yesterday's discussion about roles... >=20 > I still don't see the utility to define some tokens in the data model. = I > really think the definition of those roles will depend very much of the > definition of the policy in the data model. If the data model defines a > bunch of tokens without defining the semantic of them it can cause big > confusion for many reader. The definition of those tokens will have > implicit a semantic. For instance, the token 'observer' has a semantic > implicit but I'm sure that semantic differs from different people.=20 >=20 > My proposal here is to work on this problem in the policy document or i= n > a different document. If we decide to work in a different document ther= e > is a very old document > (http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-morgan-xcon-roles-00.txt) which tries t= o > define the role semantic in XCON. I think that document could be a base > to start discussing about roles rather than the data model. >=20 > If the WG still thinks is essential the definition of the roles in the > data model I would suggest the definitions of the roles to be numerical > rather than textual to avoid semantic conflict. The roles definition > could be only simple integers starting from '0', having the '0' role > more permissions than the '1' role.=20 >=20 > Comments? >=20 > Oscar =20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > XCON mailing list > XCON@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon >=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 13:51:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzLi-0001rC-JW; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:51:58 -0500 Received: from xcon by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzLg-0001oy-VM for xcon-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:51:56 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzLg-0001om-KZ for xcon@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:51:56 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.62]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzLg-0002aU-7X for xcon@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:51:56 -0500 Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 22D3521956 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:51:55 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b0ea3bb00000459d-c8-4756f34bf09f Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.123]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 1395421848 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:51:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw105.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.200.68]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:51:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:48:23 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Persistent information in the data model Thread-Index: Acgq0vIDWvhqApxaRLWNtIGnsy3hSQMlKoSQAAFgQdA= References: <4741CA4F.80901@nostrum.com> From: "Oscar Novo" To: "XCON-IETF" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Dec 2007 18:51:54.0843 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7B622B0:01C8376F] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Subject: [XCON] Persistent information in the data model X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org Hi, In my presentation yesterday I didn't express myself in a proper way and many of you got confuse about the persistent information problem. Actually the problem is very simple. A user in a conference is mapped using the 'unique conference user identifier' (XCON_USERID). A user can have a different XCON_USERID for every conference he is involve. As you know, now the data model stores some persistent information: nickname, name and e-mail. =20 My first question was: Is the XCON_USERID a temporal identifier? I mean, when I connect to a conference I get one XCON_USERID. If I decide to disconnect myself from my conference and connect again later I will get the same XCON_USERID or different one? =20 My second question was: which method shall we use to map the persistent information store in the data model with the non-persistent information? (this is related to the first question) Is it ok if we map one nickname with several XCON_USERIDs?=20 My last question: what other persistent information you think we should store in the data model rather than nicknames, user's name and e-mail? Cheers, Oscar _______________________________________________ XCON mailing list XCON@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xcon From xcon-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 05 14:11:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzeN-0004wF-HL; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:11:15 -0500 Received: from xcon by megatron.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzeM-0004w8-DL for xcon-confirm+ok@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:11:14 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzeM-0004w0-3Z for xcon@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:11:14 -0500 Received: from zcars04e.nortel.com ([47.129.242.56]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IzzeL-00007T-Ek for xcon@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:11:14 -0500 Received: from zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com (zrc2hxm1.corp.nortel.com [47.103.123.72]) by zcars04e.nortel.com (Switch-2.2.0/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id lB5J7uE23319; Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:07:56 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [XCON] Roles in the data model Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:08:56 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [XCON] Roles in the data model Thread-Index: Acgq0vIDWvhqApxaRLWNtIGnsy3hSQMlKoSQAAHjy8A= References: <4741CA4F.80901@nostrum.com> From: "Mary Barnes" To: "Oscar Novo" X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Cc: XCON-IETF X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: xcon-bounces@ietf.org I think at a minimum we should at least be defining in the same manner that was done in the SIP conference event package: 5.6.3. This element MAY contain a set of human-readable strings describing the roles of the user in the conference. Note that this information is applicable for human consumption only. This specification does not define the set of possible conferencing roles or the semantics associated with each. It is expected that future conferencing specifications will define these and the corresponding schema extensions, as appropriate. Then in the schema: > > > maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/> > > > > > > > maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/> > > > > > > > maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/> > > > > >> >> >> > maxOccurs=3D"unbounded"/> >> >> >> >>