From internet-drafts@ietf.org Wed Jun 1 06:06:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1856DE0882; Wed, 1 Jun 2011 06:06:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VZxZqDZy3QGk; Wed, 1 Jun 2011 06:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA6B3E0885; Wed, 1 Jun 2011 06:06:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.55 Message-ID: <20110601130612.26003.61275.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 06:06:12 -0700 Cc: xcon@ietf.org Subject: [XCON] I-D Action: draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-29.txt X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 13:06:47 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Centralized Conferencing Working Grou= p of the IETF. Title : Conference Information Data Model for Centralized Confer= encing (XCON) Author(s) : Oscar Novo Gonzalo Camarillo David P. Morgan Jari Urpalainen Filename : draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-29.txt Pages : 96 Date : 2011-06-01 RFC5239 defines the idea of a centralized conferencing (XCON) as an association of participants with a central focus. The state of a conference is represented by a conference object. This document defines an Extensible Markup Language (XML)-based conference information data model to be used for conference objects. A conference information data model is designed to convey information about the conference and about participation in the conference. The conference information data model defined in this document constitutes an extension of the data format specified in the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Event Package for Conference State. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-29.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-29.txt From internet-drafts@ietf.org Wed Jun 15 07:44:19 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3AF821F856A; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:44:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2hxcQq3+4566; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F206421F8563; Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:44:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.55 Message-ID: <20110615144418.4117.76149.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:44:18 -0700 Cc: xcon@ietf.org Subject: [XCON] I-D Action: draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-30.txt X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 14:44:20 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Centralized Conferencing Working Grou= p of the IETF. Title : Conference Information Data Model for Centralized Confer= encing (XCON) Author(s) : Oscar Novo Gonzalo Camarillo David P. Morgan Jari Urpalainen Filename : draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-30.txt Pages : 96 Date : 2011-06-15 RFC5239 defines the idea of a centralized conferencing (XCON) as an association of participants with a central focus. The state of a conference is represented by a conference object. This document defines an Extensible Markup Language (XML)-based conference information data model to be used for conference objects. A conference information data model is designed to convey information about the conference and about participation in the conference. The conference information data model defined in this document constitutes an extension of the data format specified in the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Event Package for Conference State. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-30.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-30.txt From internet-drafts@ietf.org Fri Jun 17 00:43:58 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F8411E8147; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:43:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.543 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.543 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2l4Gb6P62yUf; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B329811E808A; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:43:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 3.55 Message-ID: <20110617074357.3699.84682.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:43:57 -0700 Cc: xcon@ietf.org Subject: [XCON] I-D Action: draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-31.txt X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 07:43:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Centralized Conferencing Working Grou= p of the IETF. Title : Conference Information Data Model for Centralized Confer= encing (XCON) Author(s) : Oscar Novo Gonzalo Camarillo David P. Morgan Jari Urpalainen Filename : draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-31.txt Pages : 96 Date : 2011-06-17 RFC5239 defines the idea of a centralized conferencing (XCON) as an association of participants with a central focus. The state of a conference is represented by a conference object. This document defines an Extensible Markup Language (XML)-based conference information data model to be used for conference objects. A conference information data model is designed to convey information about the conference and about participation in the conference. The conference information data model defined in this document constitutes an extension of the data format specified in the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Event Package for Conference State. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-31.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model-31.txt From rjsparks@nostrum.com Fri Jun 17 13:37:27 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 820B19E802B for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:37:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.767 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.767 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.166, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tf3SjSHgXASJ for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A25219E8030 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.105] (pool-71-170-49-161.dllstx.fios.verizon.net [71.170.49.161]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p5HKbLeA082794 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:37:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) From: Robert Sparks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 15:37:20 -0500 Message-Id: <642D74C0-A298-47E4-A0C2-3819D4E093BD@nostrum.com> To: xcon@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 71.170.49.161 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Cc: pete resnick , draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model@tools.ietf.org Subject: [XCON] Should we keep or adjust some of the redundant text in common-data-model? X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:37:27 -0000 All - During IESG evaluation, Pete Resnick observed that common-data-model, = ccmp, and the examples document each had places where the documents repeated each other, and repeated = clauses from the documents they depend on (such as RFC4575) in ways that make the document harder to = read and introduce the possibility of conflict between those documents, especially as they are maintained = in the future. Pete has a concrete suggestion for removing the redundancy in this = document in his DISCUSS at = . I would like to confirm that people have considered the potential for conflict between the documents = in the future and want to maintain the text as it is currently constructed anyhow, or if the changes Pete = proposes are acceptable to the group. Either answer is ok - the point of Pete's DISCUSS is to confirm that the = working group has considered this possibility rather than to insist on a particular change. Pete's proposal is to completely remove sections like 4.2.2 and 4.2.3 = which currently say > 4.2.2. >=20 > The element is described in section 5.3 of = [RFC4575]. >=20 > 4.2.3. >=20 > The element is described in section 5.3 of [RFC4575]. to remove similar sections that copy sentences forward from 4575, like > 4.2.11. >=20 > The describes auxiliary services available for the > conference. The element is described in section = 5.3.2 > of [RFC4575]. (note that that first sentence is also the first sentence of 5.3.2 in = 4575), to avoid things that could be interpreted as clarifications or even = updates to 4575, such as the first sentence of 4.2.10: > 4.2.10. >=20 > The element contains the identifiers to be used in = order > to access the conference by different signaling means.=20 and to avoid duplication and some of the coupling with other documents throughout the introduction, by removing paragraphs 2, 3, and 4, and = the figure. Please see the link to the discuss text for the full set of proposed = changes. What does the group think? My 2cents - I agree with the principle behind Pete's suggestion, and I = think my first read of the document would have been smoother without sections like 4.2.2. I think the opportunity for = error introduced by drift as the documents are maintained is very low, but the editorial effort to avoid = that risk is also very low. I am less convinced that the introductory material is redundant and = think the coupling with, for instance, 5239 is maintainable going forward. RjS From rbarnes@bbn.com Fri Jun 17 14:10:39 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xcon@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2079C21F8451 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:10:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.374 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.374 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.225, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id upWfcv7hX55R for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.bbn.com (smtp.bbn.com [128.33.0.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B07F21F844E for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 14:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ros-dhcp192-1-51-84.bbn.com ([192.1.51.84]:53221) by smtp.bbn.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.74 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1QXgIx-0008rN-1i; Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:10:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "Richard L. Barnes" In-Reply-To: <642D74C0-A298-47E4-A0C2-3819D4E093BD@nostrum.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:10:13 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <412477E7-B78C-4CD3-AE9C-1B9063074592@bbn.com> References: <642D74C0-A298-47E4-A0C2-3819D4E093BD@nostrum.com> To: Robert Sparks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) Cc: pete resnick , xcon@ietf.org, draft-ietf-xcon-common-data-model@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [XCON] Should we keep or adjust some of the redundant text in common-data-model? X-BeenThere: xcon@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Centralized Conferencing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:10:39 -0000 > What does the group think? >=20 > My 2cents - I agree with the principle behind Pete's suggestion, and I = think my first read of the document would have > been smoother without sections like 4.2.2. I think the opportunity for = error introduced by drift as the > documents are maintained is very low, but the editorial effort to = avoid that risk is also very low. > I am less convinced that the introductory material is redundant and = think the coupling with, for instance, > 5239 is maintainable going forward. This seems sensible. This document doesn't need to re-describe what's = in RFC 4575 already, just the extension elements. It would probably be = good, though, to add a note to the first paragraph of S4.2 to say = something like " The XCON data model re-uses the following child elements from RFC 4575: o o o o ... " --Richard=