Subject: Re: please comment on media-type registrations for MathML
From: Bjoern Hoehrmann <[email-masked]>
To: Paul Libbrecht <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], Math Working Group WG <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:53:51 +0200
List-Id: <ietf-xml-mime.imc.org>

* Paul Libbrecht wrote:
>> The first problem I have with this is that there is no word on what
>> exactly the various types are for, like if there are any restrictions
>> on what should be in a mathml-content+xml vs a mathml-presentation+xml
>> document, or if the types can be used with MathML 2.0.
>
>that is defined in chapter 6:
>   http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-MathML3-20090924/chapter6.html#encoding-names
>should it be repeated in our appendix hence in this registration then?

That does not say whether I can use these types with MathML 2.0 or not.
I would rather say that the contents of 6.2.3 should be kept together
with the registration information, and it would not hurt to elaborate a
little bit more than the proposal does at the moment. Personally I can-
not tell, for example, when I'd ever use mathml-content+xml.

>Wouldn't it be wishable to reference draft-murata-kohn-lilley-xml-03  
>instead? Does anyone know when it'd be authoritative.

There have been proposals under that name for over five years now, it
is not very likely that consensus around proposed changed will be found
and reflected in updated drafts in the near future.

>> The security considerations are missing (in fact the specification
>> as a whole does not have a security considerations section either).
>
>Can you suggest something?
>MathML entities exchanged on the web have the same risks as any  
>document that could contain relative references. Is this the kind of  
>sentence that could be there?

MathML implementers will know better what kind of security problems
they have addressed in their implementations, so perhaps they could
contribute something to this. Yes, that would be the kind of sentence
except that it's a bit too obvious perhaps. An actual issue that may
have security implications is, for example, what if you get a MathML
document that's labeled as "content" but actually has "presentation"
markup or vice versa?

>> I believe the text you have under "interoperability considerations"
>> is misplaced there in all three cases.
>
>misplaced like it's wrongly formulated? Formatted?

As in, it does not belong there. Interoperability considerations are
for known and anticipated interoperability problems. To take the first

  entities with this media type also have the media type
  application/xml and may also have the media types
  application/presentation-mathml+xml or
  application/content-mathml+xml. 

That does not mention a problem, but makes a somewhat redundant state-
ment, and then a misleading statement about the relationship of this
type to other types (I would say both are in fact incorrect, entities
are labeled with media types, they do not intrinsically "have" them).
This is something I would expect in a discussion of the type that pre-
cedes the template information.

>> Under "Person & email address to contact for further information"
>> the proposal fails to properly separate name and email address, use
>> something like "Name <address>" instead.
>
>this appears clear

If you mean that you disagree, then regardless of whether it is clear
or not, it is common practise to do so.

>> I do not think having a generic W3C / W3C Webmaster combination  
>> there is a good practise.
>
>Should there be an email? (there's one three lines above)
>Should there be a group? That is easy to add.

I would be fine with a pointer to the authorship and contact infor-
mation in the specification.
-- 
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:[email-masked] · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
Am Badedeich 7 · Telefon: +49(0)160/4415681 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
25899 Dagebüll · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/ 

Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked], Math Working Group WG <[email-masked]>
From: Paul Libbrecht <[email-masked]>
To: Bjoern Hoehrmann <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: please comment on media-type registrations for MathML
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:09:16 +0200
Sender: [email-masked]

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thank you Bjoern,
=09
Le 07-oct.-09 =E0 16:14, Bjoern Hoehrmann a =E9crit :

>> In this specification draft, one can find three registrations for
>> media-types related to MathML in the appendix B:
>> 	http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-MathML3-20090924/appendixb.html
>
> The first problem I have with this is that there is no word on what
> exactly the various types are for, like if there are any restrictions
> on what should be in a mathml-content+xml vs a mathml-presentation+xml
> document, or if the types can be used with MathML 2.0.

that is defined in chapter 6:
   =
http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-MathML3-20090924/chapter6.html#encoding-names=

should it be repeated in our appendix hence in this registration then?

> As per RFC 3023, the charset definition and encoding considerations
> should be referenced as follows, which the proposals fails to do:
>
>  Registrations for new XML-based media types under top-level types
>  other than "text" SHOULD, in specifying the charset parameter and
>  encoding considerations, define them as: "Same as [charset parameter
>  / encoding considerations] of application/xml as specified in RFC
>  3023."

I can change this.
Wouldn't it be wishable to reference draft-murata-kohn-lilley-xml-03 =20
instead?
Does anyone know when it'd be authoritative.

> The security considerations are missing (in fact the specification
> as a whole does not have a security considerations section either).

Can you suggest something?
MathML entities exchanged on the web have the same risks as any =20
document that could contain relative references. Is this the kind of =20
sentence that could be there?

> I believe the text you have under "interoperability considerations"
> is misplaced there in all three cases.

misplaced like it's wrongly formulated? Formatted?

> I note that under "Applications that use this media type" you have
> "(todo)". Going to Last Call with "todo" markers left is not a good
> practise. I note that the purpose of this field is to give a general
> idea of what kind of applications use it, not to list individual
> software products.

thanks, will do.

> Under "Person & email address to contact for further information"
> the proposal fails to properly separate name and email address, use
> something like "Name <address>" instead.

this appears clear

> I do not think having a generic W3C / W3C Webmaster combination =20
> there is a good practise.

Should there be an email? (there's one three lines above)
Should there be a group? That is easy to add.

paul

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From: Bjoern Hoehrmann <[email-masked]>
To: Paul Libbrecht <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: Re: please comment on media-type registrations for MathML
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:14:13 +0200
Sender: [email-masked]

* Paul Libbrecht wrote:
>In this specification draft, one can find three registrations for  
>media-types related to MathML in the appendix B:
>	http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-MathML3-20090924/appendixb.html

The first problem I have with this is that there is no word on what
exactly the various types are for, like if there are any restrictions
on what should be in a mathml-content+xml vs a mathml-presentation+xml 
document, or if the types can be used with MathML 2.0.

As per RFC 3023, the charset definition and encoding considerations
should be referenced as follows, which the proposals fails to do:

  Registrations for new XML-based media types under top-level types
  other than "text" SHOULD, in specifying the charset parameter and
  encoding considerations, define them as: "Same as [charset parameter
  / encoding considerations] of application/xml as specified in RFC
  3023."

The security considerations are missing (in fact the specification
as a whole does not have a security considerations section either).

I believe the text you have under "interoperability considerations"
is misplaced there in all three cases.

I note that under "Applications that use this media type" you have
"(todo)". Going to Last Call with "todo" markers left is not a good
practise. I note that the purpose of this field is to give a general
idea of what kind of applications use it, not to list individual
software products.

Under "Person & email address to contact for further information"
the proposal fails to properly separate name and email address, use
something like "Name <address>" instead. I do not think having a
generic W3C / W3C Webmaster combination there is a good practise.
-- 
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:[email-masked] · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
Am Badedeich 7 · Telefon: +49(0)160/4415681 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
25899 Dagebüll · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/ 

From: Paul Libbrecht <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: please comment on media-type registrations for MathML
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:42:44 +0200
Sender: [email-masked]

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Dear Media-types experts,

the last-call period for MathML3 has now launched and is set to end  
Nov 11th.
See the announce at: http://www.w3.org/mid/[email-masked]

In this specification draft, one can find three registrations for  
media-types related to MathML in the appendix B:
	http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-MathML3-20090924/appendixb.html
They are copied below.

I would love comments on them until Nov 11th.

Paul

B.1 Media type for Generic MathML

This registration is for community review and will be submitted to the  
IESG for review, approval, and registration with IANA.

Type name: application
Subtype name: mathml+xml
Required parameters: none
Optional parameters: charset as per [RFC3023]
Encoding considerations: same as XML as specified in [RFC3023].
Security considerations: none
Interoperability considerations: entities with this media type also  
have the media type application/xml and may also have the media types  
application/presentation-mathml+xml or application/content-mathml+xml.
Published specification: MathML-3, draft at: http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/
Applications that use this media type: (todo)
Additional information
   Magic number(s): see [RFC3023]
   File extension(s): .mml
   Windows Clipboard Name: MathML
   Macintosh file type code(s) MML
   Macintosh Universal Type Identifier code: public.mathml conforming  
to public.xml
Person & email address to contact for further information: World Wide  
Web Consortium [email-masked]
Intended usage: COMMON
Restrictions on usage: None
Author and Change controller: The MathML specification is the product  
of the World Wide Web Consortium's Math Working Group. The W3C has  
change control over this specification.

B.2 Media type for Presentation MathML

This registration is for community review and will be submitted to the  
IESG for review, approval, and registration with IANA.

Type name: application
Subtype name: mathml-presentation+xml
Required parameters: none
Optional parameters: charset as per [RFC3023]
Encoding considerations: same as XML as specified in [RFC3023].
Security considerations: none
Interoperability considerations: This media type is a more specific  
type than application/mathml+xml. Hence any entity of this type is  
also of the type application/mathml+xml as well as application/xml. An  
agent offering this specific media type MUST also offer the  
application/mathml+xml media type. An agent delivering an entity of  
this media type SHOULD only do so if it knows the receiving party  
supports it, for example thanks to the Accept http header, and should  
otherwise deliver the more generic type.
Published specification: MathML-3, draft at: http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/
Applications that use this media type: (todo)
Additional information:
   Magic number(s): see [RFC3023]
   File extension(s): none
   Windows Clipboard Name: MathML Presentation
   Macintosh file type code(s) MMLp
   Macintosh Universal Type Identifier code:  
public.mathml.presentation conforming to public.mathml (described  
above) conforming to public.xml
Person & email address to contact for further information: World Wide  
Web Consortium [email-masked]
Intended usage: COMMON
Restrictions on usage: None
Author and Change controller The MathML specification is the product  
of the World Wide Web Consortium's Math Working Group. The W3C has  
change control over this specification.

B.3 Media type for Content MathML

This registration is for community review and will be submitted to the  
IESG for review, approval, and registration with IANA.

Type name: application
Subtype name: mathml-content+xml
Required parameters: none
Optional parameters: charset as per [RFC3023]
Encoding considerations: same as XML as specified in [RFC3023].
Security considerations: none
Interoperability considerations: This media type is a more specific  
type than application/mathml+xml. Hence any entity of this type is  
also of the type application/mathml+xml as well as application/xml. An  
agent offering this specific media type MUST also offer the  
application/mathml+xml media type. An agent delivering an entity of  
this media type SHOULD only do so if it knows the receiving party  
supports it, for example thanks to the Accept http header, and should  
otherwise deliver the more generic type.
Published specification: MathML-3, draft at: http://www.w3.org/TR/MathML3/
Applications that use this media type: (todo)
Additional information:
   Magic number(s): see [RFC3023]
   File extension(s): none
   Windows Clipboard Name: MathML Content
   Macintosh file type code(s): MMLc
   Macintosh Universal Type Identifier code: public.mathml.content  
conforming to public.mathml (described above) conforming to public.xml
Person & email address to contact for further information: World Wide  
Web Consortium [email-masked]
Intended usage: COMMON
Restrictions on usage: None
Author and Change controller: The MathML specification is the product  
of the World Wide Web Consortium's Math Working Group. The W3C has  
change control over this specification.

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