From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 13:15:14 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] Small bug in bibliography files? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010924105252.00a06c10@joy.songbird.com> Message-ID: <03e501c14535$9f7a2510$8d53cf3f@FATORA> fixed. my personal favorite in rfc-index.txt: R. Kavasseri (Editor of this version) /mtr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Klyne" To: Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 03:00 Subject: [xml2rfc] Small bug in bibliography files? > I note that RFC 2821 and 2822 generate the following reference text when > processed by xml2rfc (V1.7) using the RFC biblio files from about a week ago: > > [20] Klensin, J. and , "Simple Mail Transfer Protocol", RFC 2821, > April 2001. > > [21] Resnick, P. and , "Internet Message Format", RFC 2822, April > 2001. > > It seems that the annotation "Editor" had been picked up as the > organization of a second, un-named author. > > I attached revised versions of the corresponding .xml files. > > #g > > > ------------ > Graham Klyne > (GK@ACM.ORG) > From: GK@NineByNine.org (Graham Klyne) Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:00:04 +0100 Subject: [xml2rfc] Small bug in bibliography files? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010924105252.00a06c10@joy.songbird.com> --=====================_247151175==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I note that RFC 2821 and 2822 generate the following reference text when processed by xml2rfc (V1.7) using the RFC biblio files from about a week ago: [20] Klensin, J. and , "Simple Mail Transfer Protocol", RFC 2821, April 2001. [21] Resnick, P. and , "Internet Message Format", RFC 2822, April 2001. It seems that the annotation "Editor" had been picked up as the organization of a second, un-named author. I attached revised versions of the corresponding .xml files. #g ------------ Graham Klyne (GK@ACM.ORG) --=====================_247151175==_ Content-Type: application/xml; name="reference.RFC.2822.xml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="reference.RFC.2822.xml" PD94bWwgdmVyc2lvbj0nMS4wJz8+CjwhRE9DVFlQRSByZWZlcmVuY2UgU1lTVEVNICdyZmMyNjI5 LmR0ZCc+Cgo8cmVmZXJlbmNlIGFuY2hvcj0nUkZDMjgyMic+Cgo8ZnJvbnQ+Cjx0aXRsZT5JbnRl cm5ldCBNZXNzYWdlIEZvcm1hdDwvdGl0bGU+CjxhdXRob3IgaW5pdGlhbHM9J1AuJyBzdXJuYW1l PSdSZXNuaWNrJyBmdWxsbmFtZT0nUC4gUmVzbmljayc+Cjxvcmdhbml6YXRpb24+PC9vcmdhbml6 YXRpb24+PC9hdXRob3I+CjxkYXRlIG1vbnRoPSdBcHJpbCcgeWVhcj0nMjAwMSc+PC9kYXRlPjwv ZnJvbnQ+Cgo8c2VyaWVzSW5mbyBuYW1lPSdSRkMnIHZhbHVlPScyODIyJyAvPgo8L3JlZmVyZW5j ZT4K --=====================_247151175==_ Content-Type: application/xml; name="reference.RFC.2821.xml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="reference.RFC.2821.xml" PD94bWwgdmVyc2lvbj0nMS4wJz8+CjwhRE9DVFlQRSByZWZlcmVuY2UgU1lTVEVNICdyZmMyNjI5 LmR0ZCc+Cgo8cmVmZXJlbmNlIGFuY2hvcj0nUkZDMjgyMSc+Cgo8ZnJvbnQ+Cjx0aXRsZT5TaW1w bGUgTWFpbCBUcmFuc2ZlciBQcm90b2NvbDwvdGl0bGU+CjxhdXRob3IgaW5pdGlhbHM9J0ouJyBz dXJuYW1lPSdLbGVuc2luJyBmdWxsbmFtZT0nSi4gS2xlbnNpbic+Cjxvcmdhbml6YXRpb24+PC9v cmdhbml6YXRpb24+PC9hdXRob3I+CjxkYXRlIG1vbnRoPSdBcHJpbCcgeWVhcj0nMjAwMSc+PC9k YXRlPjwvZnJvbnQ+Cgo8c2VyaWVzSW5mbyBuYW1lPSdSRkMnIHZhbHVlPScyODIxJyAvPgo8L3Jl ZmVyZW5jZT4K --=====================_247151175==_-- From: Bjoern Hoehrmann (Bjoern Hoehrmann) Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 05:31:48 +0200 Subject: [xml2rfc] Long URIs should be wrapped Message-ID: <1d1oqtoa5u8tcs8jashcbmmfol5fdgjraq@4ax.com> Hi, The current xml2rfc tool doesn't wrap long URIs if they don't contain a hyphen, causing lines to exceed the 72 characters limit. This should be changed to conform to this rule. The URI should be wrapped at the last path segment delimiter ('/'). regards, -- Björn Höhrmann { mailto:bjoern@hoehrmann.de } http://www.bjoernsworld.de am Badedeich 7 } Telefon: +49(0)4667/981028 { http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de 25899 Dagebüll { PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 } http://www.learn.to/quote/ From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:54:23 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] finer grained organization element? References: <20010921193628.A1068@frml.snt.utwente.nl> <940nqtcp61enpk90roul1ela3iis2rvlii@4ax.com> Message-ID: <142101c142d7$36e56650$8d53cf3f@FATORA> > The currently provided xml2rfc online > tool is by the way not really helpful to discover that it is missing. > Maybe it would be at least a good idea to link some online XML > Validation service to give authors a chance to validate the XML document > before submitting. good point. validation has been added to the .cgi script. /mtr From: Bjoern Hoehrmann (Bjoern Hoehrmann) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 20:04:45 +0200 Subject: [xml2rfc] finer grained organization element? In-Reply-To: <20010921193628.A1068@frml.snt.utwente.nl> References: <20010921193628.A1068@frml.snt.utwente.nl> Message-ID: <940nqtcp61enpk90roul1ela3iis2rvlii@4ax.com> * Remco van de Meent wrote: >The current rfc2629.dtd allows for one element indicating the >organization the author is related to: > > Your Company > >I wonder whether there are other people interested in a somewhat more >detailed description of the organization, e.g. like this: Yes, but in general it should be optional, some authors (like myself :-) don't belong to any organization. The currently provided xml2rfc online tool is by the way not really helpful to discover that it is missing. Maybe it would be at least a good idea to link some online XML Validation service to give authors a chance to validate the XML document before submitting. -- Björn Höhrmann { mailto:bjoern@hoehrmann.de } http://www.bjoernsworld.de am Badedeich 7 } Telefon: +49(0)4667/981028 { http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de 25899 Dagebüll { PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 } http://www.learn.to/quote/ From: remco@vandemeent.net (Remco van de Meent) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:48:45 +0200 Subject: [xml2rfc] finer grained organization element? In-Reply-To: <20010921134419.C1472@SBRIM-W2K> References: <20010921193628.A1068@frml.snt.utwente.nl> <20010921134419.C1472@SBRIM-W2K> Message-ID: <20010921194845.A1278@frml.snt.utwente.nl> Scott Brim wrote: > > I wonder whether there are other people interested in a somewhat > > more detailed description of the organization, e.g. like this: > > > > > > Some Department > > Your Company > > > > > > Or maybe even more detailed? > > Where would you put that in an RFC? In the author's adress section? Remco. From: swb@employees.org (Scott Brim) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:44:19 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] finer grained organization element? In-Reply-To: <20010921193628.A1068@frml.snt.utwente.nl>; from remco@vandemeent.net on Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 07:36:28PM +0200 References: <20010921193628.A1068@frml.snt.utwente.nl> Message-ID: <20010921134419.C1472@SBRIM-W2K> On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 07:36:28PM +0200, Remco van de Meent allegedly wrote: > The current rfc2629.dtd allows for one element indicating the > organization the author is related to: > > Your Company > > I wonder whether there are other people interested in a somewhat more > detailed description of the organization, e.g. like this: > > > Some Department > Your Company > > > Or maybe even more detailed? Where would you put that in an RFC? From: remco@vandemeent.net (Remco van de Meent) Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 19:36:28 +0200 Subject: [xml2rfc] finer grained organization element? Message-ID: <20010921193628.A1068@frml.snt.utwente.nl> Hi, The current rfc2629.dtd allows for one element indicating the organization the author is related to: Your Company I wonder whether there are other people interested in a somewhat more detailed description of the organization, e.g. like this: Some Department Your Company Or maybe even more detailed? regards, Remco. From: rra@stanford.edu (Russ Allbery) Date: 20 Sep 2001 22:04:38 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes In-Reply-To: Fred Douglis's message of "Thu, 20 Sep 2001 15:11:08 -0400" References: <200109201911.PAA18542@douglux.research.att.com> Message-ID: Fred Douglis writes: > I agree with your sentiment on creeping featurism in general, but I have > to agree with Graham about the specifics he raises. Yes, in plain text > we lose the ability to emphasize, but that doesn't mean we have to > sacrifice that ability in HTML. If you aren't going to use certain HTML > features, why put the title in a different font, for instance? Maybe I'm strange, but I've always considered use of emphasis like bold and italics to be generally out of place in technical writing, even when it's tempting to do so. There are other, better ways to emphasize things in the context of an RFC, like pulling major points out into a summary, correct use of the all-caps standards terms, or drawing special attention to things in NOTEs. Bold and italic, besides not being available in the canonical plain text format for RFCs, can also be either hard to read or not visually apparent depending on the user's font. I think it's important to put the emphasis integrally into the writing so that it survives translation to speech synthesis and translation into any different formatting language. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) From: swb@employees.org (Scott Brim) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 21:54:27 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] Help converting a DOC->RTF->XML->RFC_Text In-Reply-To: <116601c14237$376ab8a0$8d53cf3f@FATORA>; from mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us on Thu, Sep 20, 2001 at 05:49:05PM -0700 References: <3BAA7E89.9D5A6D3D@cisco.com> <116601c14237$376ab8a0$8d53cf3f@FATORA> Message-ID: <20010920215426.A736@SBRIM-W2K> Or, go back to your Word document and use draft-hain-msword-template-04.txt about how to write drafts in Word. Also see http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/Internet_Draft_Template.doc (or ask Tony for the template). From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 17:49:05 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] Help converting a DOC->RTF->XML->RFC_Text References: <3BAA7E89.9D5A6D3D@cisco.com> Message-ID: <116601c14237$376ab8a0$8d53cf3f@FATORA> the problem is that your xml doesn't conform to rfc2629. if you're using docbook, you should look around for some software that does docbook. if you want to use software that does rfc2629, then you should start with your docbook stuff and edit it accordingly. /mtr ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarvi Shanmugham To: xml2rfc@lists.xml.resource.org Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2001 16:40 Subject: [xml2rfc] Help converting a DOC->RTF->XML->RFC_Text Hi, I need to conver an Word/RTF file into an RFC Text format. I used the "LocTran" software to convert Word/RTF file format to an XML format. The Logic Tran output format used the DocBook DTD to generate the out put. It does have the capability to use user defined DTD to output to, if need be. I have provided the XML document it generated. I then tried the XML2RFC tool to convert it to RFC Text I got the following error. invalid DOCTYPE: book+-//OASIS/DTD DocBook V3.1//EN+C:/Program%20Files/Logictran/DTD/Docbookx/docbookx.dtd+ Can someone point me as to what the problem is. Also, if the DTD of the XML document is the problem, and since the LogicTran software can out put to an XML format with a different DTD. Is there a specific DTD available that the XML document should be in before submitting to the xml2rfc tool. Thanks, Sarvi - Test Text - - Saravanan Shanmugham -
Cisco Systems, Inc.
 - <para>Test Text.</para> <para>In theory, the nroff output is suitable for input to the RFC editor.</para> <para>In addition, there is a directory that contains bibliographic summaries of each RFC, suitable for including in your input:</para> <para><references></para> <para>...</para> <para><?rfc include="reference.RFC.2629" ?></para> <para>...</para> <para></references></para> - <section> - <title> <anchor id="Heading14" /> Header You can get the contents of the entire directory as a zip or tgz file. New! There is now a directory of bibliographic summaries of each Internet-draft. You can browse them here. You can also get the contents of the entire directory as a zip or tgz file. There is also a directory of bibliographic summaries for related standards from ANSI, CCITT, FIPS, IEEE, ISO, ITU, NIST, and PKCS. (These were taken from the references section of the RFC corpus.) You can browse them here. You can also get the contents of the entire directory as a zip or tgz file. -
- <anchor id="Heading24" /> Sub header Questions? Try the mailing list.
From: sarvi@cisco.com (Sarvi Shanmugham) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 16:40:58 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] Help converting a DOC->RTF->XML->RFC_Text Message-ID: <3BAA7E89.9D5A6D3D@cisco.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------324DFCE9D10DCCE5C8821D95 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------43D28876C589FACC779042C2" --------------43D28876C589FACC779042C2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I need to conver an Word/RTF file into an RFC Text format. I used the "LocTran" software to convert Word/RTF file format to an XML format. The Logic Tran output format used the DocBook DTD to generate the out put. It does have the capability to use user defined DTD to output to, if need be. I have provided the XML document it generated. I then tried the XML2RFC tool to convert it to RFC Text I got the following error. invalid DOCTYPE: book+-//OASIS/DTD DocBook V3.1//EN+C:/Program%20Files/Logictran/DTD/Docbookx/docbookx.dtd+ Can someone point me as to what the problem is. Also, if the DTD of the XML document is the problem, and since the LogicTran software can out put to an XML format with a different DTD. Is there a specific DTD available that the XML document should be in before submitting to the xml2rfc tool. Thanks, Sarvi - Test Text - - Saravanan Shanmugham -
Cisco Systems, Inc.
 - <para>Test Text.</para> <para>In theory, the nroff output is suitable for input to the RFC editor.</para> <para>In addition, there is a directory that contains bibliographic summaries of each RFC, suitable for including in your input:</para> <para><references></para> <para>...</para> <para><?rfc include="reference.RFC.2629" ?></para> <para>...</para> <para></references></para> - <section> - <title> <anchor id="Heading14" /> Header You can get the contents of the entire directory as a zip or tgz file. New! There is now a directory of bibliographic summaries of each Internet-draft. You can browse them here. You can also get the contents of the entire directory as a zip or tgz file. There is also a directory of bibliographic summaries for related standards from ANSI, CCITT, FIPS, IEEE, ISO, ITU, NIST, and PKCS. (These were taken from the references section of the RFC corpus.) You can browse them here. You can also get the contents of the entire directory as a zip or tgz file. -
- <anchor id="Heading24" /> Sub header Questions? Try the mailing list.
--------------43D28876C589FACC779042C2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Hi,
    I need to conver an Word/RTF file into an RFC Text format.
    I used the "LocTran" software to convert Word/RTF file format to an XML format.  The Logic Tran output format used the DocBook DTD to generate the out put. It does have the capability to use user defined DTD to output to, if need be.

I have provided the XML document it generated.

I then tried the XML2RFC tool to convert it to RFC Text
I got the following error.

   invalid DOCTYPE: book+-//OASIS/DTD
DocBook
V3.1//EN+C:/Program%20Files/Logictran/DTD/Docbookx/docbookx.dtd+
 
Can someone point me as to what the problem is.

Also, if the DTD of the XML document is the problem, and since the LogicTran software can out put to an XML format with a different DTD. Is there a specific DTD available that the XML document should be in before submitting to the xml2rfc tool.
 

Thanks,
Sarvi
 

  <?xml version="1.0" ?>
  <!DOCTYPE book (View Source for full doctype...)>
- <book>
  <title>Test Text</title>
- <bookinfo>
- <author>
  <firstname>Saravanan</firstname>
  <surname>Shanmugham</surname>
- <affiliation>
  <address format="linespecific">Cisco Systems, Inc.</address>
  </affiliation>
  </author>
  <keywordset />
  <abstract />
  </bookinfo>
- <preface>
  <title />
  <para>Test Text.</para>
  <para>In theory, the nroff output is suitable for input to the RFC editor.</para>
  <para>In addition, there is a directory that contains bibliographic summaries of each RFC, suitable for including in your input:</para>
  <para><references></para>
  <para>...</para>
  <para><?rfc include="reference.RFC.2629" ?></para>
  <para>...</para>
  <para></references></para>
- <section>
- <title>
  <anchor id="Heading14" />
  Header
  </title>
  <para>You can get the contents of the entire directory as a zip or tgz file.</para>
  <para>New! There is now a directory of bibliographic summaries of each Internet-draft. You can browse them here. You can also</para>
  <para>get the contents of the entire directory as a zip or tgz file.</para>
  <para>There is also a directory of bibliographic summaries for related standards from ANSI, CCITT, FIPS, IEEE, ISO, ITU, NIST,</para>
  <para>and PKCS. (These were taken from the references section of the RFC corpus.) You can browse them here. You can also</para>
  <para>get the contents of the entire directory as a zip or tgz file.</para>
  </section>
- <section>
- <title>
  <anchor id="Heading24" />
  Sub header
  </title>
  <para>Questions? Try the mailing list.</para>
  </section>
  </preface>
  </book> --------------43D28876C589FACC779042C2-- --------------324DFCE9D10DCCE5C8821D95 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="sarvi.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Sarvi Shanmugham Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sarvi.vcf" begin:vcard n:Shanmugham;Saravanan x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Cisco Systems Inc;Voice Technology Center adr:;;170 W Tasman Drive;San Jose;CA;95134;USA version:2.1 email;internet:sarvi@cisco.com title:Software Engineer fn:Saravanan Shanmugham end:vcard --------------324DFCE9D10DCCE5C8821D95-- From: douglis@research.att.com (Fred Douglis) Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 15:11:08 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:08:42 PDT." <0b0a01c14146$e1e39870$8d53cf3f@FATORA> Message-ID: <200109201911.PAA18542@douglux.research.att.com> I agree with your sentiment on creeping featurism in general, but I have to agree with Graham about the specifics he raises. Yes, in plain text we lose the ability to emphasize, but that doesn't mean we have to sacrifice that ability in HTML. If you aren't going to use certain HTML features, why put the title in a different font, for instance? So allowing the user to pass a limited set of tags -- especially when they have clear nroff equivalents as well -- is a Good Thing in my book. Fred From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:26:39 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] I-D biblio database Message-ID: <0de401c1418c$71f82800$8d53cf3f@FATORA> http://xml.resource.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/ there are still some kinks to be worked out, but it's more or less there now. see http://xml.resource.org/ for pointers to the .tgz and .zip files /mtr From: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 17:24:06 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:08:42 PDT." <0b0a01c14146$e1e39870$8d53cf3f@FATORA> Message-ID: <200109192124.f8JLO6c05685@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Marshall" == Marshall T Rose writes: Marshall> accordingly, it worries me considerably to talk about tags like Marshall> , , or . we do those three this week. Marshall> next month someone is asking for and . Marshall> the month after that, someone is asking for . Well, that's a question of creaping featurism, and is something to be resisted. The reason to mark up the different components, even if they get almost nothing in ASCII is that it still provides semantic content whic is useful for searching. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: latin1 Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBO6kM9YqHRg3pndX9AQHgAgQAnrut9u7zH3i9LbXiMljj1fd7pWCRPyhF abNjH0TTS2j7ZXokwYhMXuMD8D0Ai8uLeEqWwWSMp68/O4qRxXHWbjJO5UMbuq+V aof2pPJuVpZQjvTPdWVVK74yO01yBHYwMzdAmUQEbxzOUvZQ8Bsp4oF5NAwsNRXh XWazAZSEe44= =tOzO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:08:42 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010918114316.03c79a10@joy.songbird.com> <200109182039.f8IKdH711574@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> <20010918172801.X1744@SBRIM-W2K> <5.1.0.14.2.20010919095730.04a42ec0@joy.songbird.com> Message-ID: <0b0a01c14146$e1e39870$8d53cf3f@FATORA> graham - the thing which i can not emphasize enough is the importance of staying focused on xml2rfc being something to produce rfc-like things. people who desire a lot of features would be better served by docbook or some such. accordingly, it worries me considerably to talk about tags like , , or . we do those three this week. next month someone is asking for
and . the month after that, someone is asking for . the reason i like the emoticonic aproach so much is that it looks like a hack, it feels like a hack, and no one is going to go from |'serverName| or |"mixer::init| to asking for html4 compliance. i realize this argument is less analytical than philosophical, but hopefully it resonates with folks... /mtr From: GK@ninebynine.org (Graham Klyne) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 10:03:25 +0100 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes In-Reply-To: <07fd01c1408c$c75b67e0$8d53cf3f@FATORA> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010918114316.03c79a10@joy.songbird.com> <200109182039.f8IKdH711574@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> <20010918172801.X1744@SBRIM-W2K> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010919095730.04a42ec0@joy.songbird.com> At 02:56 PM 9/18/01 -0700, Marshall T. Rose wrote: > > Hm. Back when I first did HTML mode in TCL for Alpha > > , I made it very table driven so that people like > > you (:-)) could add their own attributes. Luckily there are very few > > things you can do with a attribute. Marshall, it might be time to do > > something like that. > >i like the approach, but i'm very concerned about feature creep, and in >particular how this works when either .txt or .nroff is being output. > >to me, a more minimalistic approach makes more sense. > >what i'm looking at now works like this : > > > >|*pay attention| - emphasis > >|'Content-Type:| - formal terms, domain names, etc. > >|"if { i++ > 3 }| - code fragment > >this approach lacks the generality of things like or or >whatever, but realistically, do you really need to tag something as an > or ? probably not, even when the output is html. I agree about feature creep, and that many options are not needed. (My original comments were aimed at the relatively small set of styles offered by basic HTML.) However, having gone to the trouble of using XML to mark up a document, it seems odd to me that you'd use some different form of markup for these styles. I'd suggest (a) using a limited subset of HTML markup tags (for familiarity), e.g. ... ... ... for the three cases you note, or (b) making up your own tags. #g ------------ Graham Klyne GK@NineByNine.org From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:56:32 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010918114316.03c79a10@joy.songbird.com> <200109182039.f8IKdH711574@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> <20010918172801.X1744@SBRIM-W2K> Message-ID: <07fd01c1408c$c75b67e0$8d53cf3f@FATORA> > Hm. Back when I first did HTML mode in TCL for Alpha > , I made it very table driven so that people like > you (:-)) could add their own attributes. Luckily there are very few > things you can do with a attribute. Marshall, it might be time to do > something like that. i like the approach, but i'm very concerned about feature creep, and in particular how this works when either .txt or .nroff is being output. to me, a more minimalistic approach makes more sense. what i'm looking at now works like this : |*pay attention| - emphasis |'Content-Type:| - formal terms, domain names, etc. |"if { i++ > 3 }| - code fragment this approach lacks the generality of things like or or whatever, but realistically, do you really need to tag something as an or ? probably not, even when the output is html. /mtr From: swb@employees.org (Scott Brim) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:28:01 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes In-Reply-To: <200109182039.f8IKdH711574@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca>; from mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca on Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 04:39:17PM -0400 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010918114316.03c79a10@joy.songbird.com> <200109182039.f8IKdH711574@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> Message-ID: <20010918172801.X1744@SBRIM-W2K> On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 04:39:17PM -0400, Michael Richardson allegedly wrote: > I'd like to have a whole set of attributes... > > to put around literal IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. > to put around abstract stuff (e.g. IPV4ADDR) > obvious. > for email addresses in text (or could ) > > so that I can speak about the "In-Reply-To" > header in a draft about email. Hm. Back when I first did HTML mode in TCL for Alpha , I made it very table driven so that people like you (:-)) could add their own attributes. Luckily there are very few things you can do with a attribute. Marshall, it might be time to do something like that. From: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:39:17 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:47:11 BST." <5.1.0.14.2.20010918114316.03c79a10@joy.songbird.com> Message-ID: <200109182039.f8IKdH711574@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> >>>>> "Graham" == Graham Klyne writes: Graham> At 03:04 PM 9/17/01 -0700, Marshall T. Rose wrote: >> > Now I'm starting to (try to) use XML2RFC seriously, I'm finding some >> other > nits: I note there's no option to indicate text styles. For >> regular RFC > production this is clearly immaterial, but as HTML >> generation is one of the > other options it seems it would be useful >> to be able to include basic HTML > style tags within a element. >> >> graham - what do you mean by "text style"? >> >> are you talking about ..., ..., ... >> >> or something else? Graham> Yes those, and maybe more significantly things like Graham> ..., ..., ..., Graham> .... Graham> The one I most missed was ... for protocol element Graham> names in running text. I'd like to have a whole set of attributes... to put around literal IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. to put around abstract stuff (e.g. IPV4ADDR) obvious. for email addresses in text (or could ) so that I can speak about the "In-Reply-To" header in a draft about email. ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ From: mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca (Michael Richardson) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 16:35:45 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:33:38 BST." <5.1.0.14.2.20010918193039.044504e0@joy.songbird.com> Message-ID: <200109182035.f8IKZjP11348@marajade.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> "Graham" == Graham Klyne writes: Graham> At 11:09 AM 9/18/01 -0400, Fred Douglis wrote: >> Has anybody prepared bibliography files for W3C documents? >> >> I have the same question for Internet-Drafts -- but I haven't put such >> a file together yet. I'm hoping someone else who uses the tool might >> have automated the process of taking the current i-d directory and >> extracting titles and authors and such. Anyone? Graham> The trouble is, Internet-drafts, by design, are transient Graham> documents, and very many new ones are issued every day. Those Graham> that stay the course become RFCs, and I'm guessing that Marshall This is not to stop WG chairs or ID authors from making this available. It could even be put at the very end of ID's, generated by xml2rfc itself... ] ON HUMILITY: to err is human. To moo, bovine. | firewalls [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net architect[ ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[ ] panic("Just another NetBSD/notebook using, kernel hacking, security guy"); [ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: latin1 Comment: Finger me for keys iQCVAwUBO6ehh4qHRg3pndX9AQGNlgP+NqcBjLw1EBzzq8UhbgGb50tL21aaLu2b SkSiMTGcjaPSGRrTJUtkpmgb6dKiVCZUxmuyxKWZ7iclWyLPVP0/YgINs5K5/CeP 2UsPxuGOzEnctsLtvNjS5+uHHY3h3l1lddJDPA9Vcc3a4KQayjDtjyeN6Vtj4KLx pX/xTBWB8ak= =psGa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From: mrose@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 13:34:07 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010918193039.044504e0@joy.songbird.com> Message-ID: <06ba01c14081$4426d900$8d53cf3f@FATORA> > The trouble is, Internet-drafts, by design, are transient documents, and > very many new ones are issued every day. Those that stay the course become > RFCs, and I'm guessing that Marshall has plans to keep the RFC bibliography > up to date. (The more folks who use xml2rfc, the easier that job becomes.) i have a script that runs once a night. one of the things it does is generate bibxml files from new entries in rfc-index.txt i also spent a fair bit of money having the backmatter converted on a couple of thousand of the rfcs (primarily for citation analysis), but that's another story... > I'm not familiar with .bib files. latex/bibtex - very cool stuff written a long time ago and still in a lot of use... a converter for this would be nice. From: douglis@research.att.com (Fred Douglis) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 15:27:37 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:33:38 BST." <5.1.0.14.2.20010918193039.044504e0@joy.songbird.com> Message-ID: <200109181927.PAA06741@douglux.research.att.com> > The trouble is, Internet-drafts, by design, are transient documents, and > very many new ones are issued every day. Those that stay the course become > RFCs, and I'm guessing that Marshall has plans to keep the RFC bibliography > up to date. (The more folks who use xml2rfc, the easier that job becomes.) Agreed. But still, one sometimes needs to cite an I-D, and generating the XML for this by hand is quite tedious. I wouldn't expect there to be a single file, like there is for RFCs. But a filter to take either the master list of "current" I-Ds or a single I-D in txt format, and generate the citation information, would be useful. As I said, I could probably hack something together, and I intend to do this if I time out on this query. > >Or a bib2xml converter for .bib files? That seems easy enough, but again, I > >won't reinvent the wheel if someone has it and can offer it. > > I'm not familiar with .bib files. They're used by LaTeX among others. If you go to http://liinwww.ira.uka.de/bibliography/waisbib.html you can look up huge numbers of citations, in bib format. Being able to get these in a format xml2rfc could understand would also be useful. Again, this transformation isn't hard, and I'm wondering if someone's done it already, but I can do it myself too. Fred From: GK@NineByNine.org (Graham Klyne) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 19:33:38 +0100 Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents In-Reply-To: <200109181509.LAA04347@douglux.research.att.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010918193039.044504e0@joy.songbird.com> At 11:09 AM 9/18/01 -0400, Fred Douglis wrote: > Has anybody prepared bibliography files for W3C documents? > >I have the same question for Internet-Drafts -- but I haven't put such a file >together yet. I'm hoping someone else who uses the tool might have automated >the process of taking the current i-d directory and extracting titles and >authors and such. Anyone? The trouble is, Internet-drafts, by design, are transient documents, and very many new ones are issued every day. Those that stay the course become RFCs, and I'm guessing that Marshall has plans to keep the RFC bibliography up to date. (The more folks who use xml2rfc, the easier that job becomes.) >Or a bib2xml converter for .bib files? That seems easy enough, but again, I >won't reinvent the wheel if someone has it and can offer it. I'm not familiar with .bib files. #g ------------ Graham Klyne (GK@ACM.ORG) From: douglis@research.att.com (Fred Douglis) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:09:57 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:43:29 BST." <5.1.0.14.2.20010913163749.03876cf0@joy.songbird.com> Message-ID: <200109181509.LAA04347@douglux.research.att.com> Has anybody prepared bibliography files for W3C documents? I have the same question for Internet-Drafts -- but I haven't put such a file together yet. I'm hoping someone else who uses the tool might have automated the process of taking the current i-d directory and extracting titles and authors and such. Anyone? Or a bib2xml converter for .bib files? That seems easy enough, but again, I won't reinvent the wheel if someone has it and can offer it. Thanks, Fred From: swb@employees.org (Scott Brim) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 08:20:50 -0400 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20010918114316.03c79a10@joy.songbird.com>; from GK@ninebynine.org on Tue, Sep 18, 2001 at 11:47:11AM +0100 References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010917153225.039b5760@joy.songbird.com> <035f01c13fc4$b4f2b770$8d53cf3f@FATORA> <5.1.0.14.2.20010918114316.03c79a10@joy.songbird.com> Message-ID: <20010918082050.G1744@SBRIM-W2K> On Tue, Sep 18, 2001 11:47:11AM +0100, Graham Klyne allegedly wrote: > Yes those, and maybe more significantly things like ..., > ..., ..., .... > > The one I most missed was ... for protocol element names in > running text. How would you want these represented in plain text? From: GK@NineByNine.org (Graham Klyne) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:47:11 +0100 Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes In-Reply-To: <035f01c13fc4$b4f2b770$8d53cf3f@FATORA> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010917153225.039b5760@joy.songbird.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010918114316.03c79a10@joy.songbird.com> At 03:04 PM 9/17/01 -0700, Marshall T. Rose wrote: > > Now I'm starting to (try to) use XML2RFC seriously, I'm finding some other > > nits: I note there's no option to indicate text styles. For regular RFC > > production this is clearly immaterial, but as HTML generation is one of >the > > other options it seems it would be useful to be able to include basic HTML > > style tags within a element. > >graham - what do you mean by "text style"? > >are you talking about ..., ..., ... > >or something else? Yes those, and maybe more significantly things like ..., ..., ..., .... The one I most missed was ... for protocol element names in running text. #g ------------ Graham Klyne (GK@ACM.ORG) From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:12:14 -0700 Subject: [xml2rfc] Using xml2rfc References: Message-ID: <036d01c13fc5$ce8822a0$8d53cf3f@FATORA> > I am repeatedly unsuccessful using the xml2rfc translator. Can someone send > me an *.xml file that works with this translator so I may compare my xml > file to one that is known to work? i'd go to http://xml.resource.org/ and download either the .zip or .tgz file for xml2rfc. each contains a couple of .xml files for you to look at > fyi, this is the response I get from xml2rfc: > > You lose >

Unable to Convert File

missing month attribute in date
element
> ...

my guess is that in the date element at the front of your document you don't
have a month attribute, e.g., you have

    

instead of

    

/mtr





From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:04:21 -0700
Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010917153225.039b5760@joy.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <035f01c13fc4$b4f2b770$8d53cf3f@FATORA>

> Now I'm starting to (try to) use XML2RFC seriously, I'm finding some other
> nits:  I note there's no option to indicate text styles.  For regular RFC
> production this is clearly immaterial, but as HTML generation is one of
the
> other options it seems it would be useful to be able to include basic HTML
> style tags within a  element.

graham - what do you mean by "text style"?

are you talking about ..., ..., ...

or something else?

thanks,

/mtr




From: FRobinson@sandcherry.com (Fred Robinson)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:59:30 -0600
Subject: [xml2rfc] Using xml2rfc
Message-ID: 

I am repeatedly unsuccessful using the xml2rfc translator.  Can someone send
me an *.xml file that works with this translator so I may compare my xml
file to one that is known to work?

Thanks!

fyi, this is the response I get from xml2rfc:

You lose

Unable to Convert File
missing month attribute in date element

Context: 
    <rfc>
    <front>

Apache/1.3.20 Server at xml.resource.org Port
80








Fred Robinson
Sr. Systems Engineer
SandCherry networks
http://www.sandcherry.com/
2845 Wilderness Pl.
Boulder, CO 80301
720.272.5201
frobinson@sandcherry.com 

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/psel/ps0004a.html







From: GK@NineByNine.org (Graham Klyne)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:40:35 +0100
Subject: [xml2rfc] Text attributes
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010917153225.039b5760@joy.songbird.com>

Changing the include convention to be an XML processing instruction was a 
great idea -- now I can use my validating XML editor to edit the source.

Now I'm starting to (try to) use XML2RFC seriously, I'm finding some other 
nits:  I note there's no option to indicate text styles.  For regular RFC 
production this is clearly immaterial, but as HTML generation is one of the 
other options it seems it would be useful to be able to include basic HTML 
style tags within a  element.

#g


------------
Graham Klyne
(GK@ACM.ORG)



From: GK@NineByNine.org (Graham Klyne)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:31:18 +0100
Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents
In-Reply-To: <02c701c13ca7$ab92e3a0$8d53cf3f@FATORA>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010913163749.03876cf0@joy.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010917151643.039bc740@joy.songbird.com>

At 03:58 PM 9/13/01 -0700, Marshall T. Rose wrote:
>graham - thanks. i've added them to the directory that re-creates
>bibxml2.{tgz,zip} nightly.
>
>my only comment is that in the "seriesInfo", the name should just be
>"W3C" -- the value already indicates recommendation or candidate
>recommendation.

Well, it does, sometimes.  I was uncomfortable with this duplication myself.

There's also the fact that W3C have two parallel document naming conventions:
- http://www.w3.org/TR/name
- http://www.w3.org/TR/yyyy/REC-name-yyyymmdd

(where REC- is a prefix indicating Recommendation status.)

The former being used for the "latest version" of any given specification, 
and the latter for a never-changed snapshot.  For example, 
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml now gets you the XML 2nd edition 
specification.  The status prefix (WD, CR, PR, REC) seems to be 
inconsistently applied in this case;  e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt, 
compared with the XML spec. name noted above.

Anyway, I've revised my working set of W3C references to drop the status 
prefix from the filenames, anchor name and seriesInfo 'value' attribute, 
and spell out the actual status (e.g. "W3C Recommendation") in the name 
attribute.  Example below.

I'll send in an update when I'm happy I've debugged them.

#g
--

Example:  reference.W3C.xml-names.xml





   
     Namespaces in XML
     
       Textuality
       

         tbray@textuality.com
       

     
     
       Hewlett-Packard Company
       

         dmh@corp.hp.com
       

     
     
       Microsoft
       

         andrewl@microsoft.com
       

     
     
   
   




>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Graham Klyne" 
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 08:43
>Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents
>
>
> > Has anybody prepared bibliography files for W3C documents?
> >
> > If not, here's a small selection that may be of some use (XML, XML NS,
> > XSLT, RDF, RDF schema).
> >
> > #g
> >
> >
> > ------------
> > Graham Klyne
> > (GK@ACM.ORG)
> >

------------
Graham Klyne
(GK@ACM.ORG)



From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:12:41 -0700
Subject: [xml2rfc] xml2rfc v1.8 released
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010913163749.03876cf0@joy.songbird.com> <02c701c13ca7$ab92e3a0$8d53cf3f@FATORA>
Message-ID: <02ff01c13ca9$96db2b50$8d53cf3f@FATORA>

several improvements to the nroff generator to make it easier to "just give
nroff to the rfc-editor".

    http://xml.resource.org/

thanks,

/mtr




From: mrose+mtr.netnews@dbc.mtview.ca.us (Marshall T. Rose)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:58:57 -0700
Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20010913163749.03876cf0@joy.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <02c701c13ca7$ab92e3a0$8d53cf3f@FATORA>

graham - thanks. i've added them to the directory that re-creates
bibxml2.{tgz,zip} nightly.

my only comment is that in the "seriesInfo", the name should just be
"W3C" -- the value already indicates recommendation or candidate
recommendation.

/mtr


----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Klyne" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 08:43
Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents


> Has anybody prepared bibliography files for W3C documents?
>
> If not, here's a small selection that may be of some use (XML, XML NS,
> XSLT, RDF, RDF schema).
>
> #g
>
>
> ------------
> Graham Klyne
> (GK@ACM.ORG)
>



From: GK@NineByNine.org (Graham Klyne)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:43:29 +0100
Subject: [xml2rfc] Bibliography files for W3C documents
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010913163749.03876cf0@joy.songbird.com>

--=====================_10118775==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Has anybody prepared bibliography files for W3C documents?

If not, here's a small selection that may be of some use (XML, XML NS, 
XSLT, RDF, RDF schema).

#g


------------
Graham Klyne
(GK@ACM.ORG)

--=====================_10118775==_
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