From mamille2@cisco.com Sun Nov 3 10:52:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B19321E8100 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 10:52:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dcYwb6uLdetu for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 10:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C00111E81EA for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 10:52:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1221; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1383504755; x=1384714355; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=JIM5sKcumaVRXcs5BhEJKQxmPKNciQ1KqTBpG6pr1bY=; b=chjFSgCV4U8s/RP1ZkPMQ75K4Q33nHkQFVZpPIHAp4//bz+/rpxgmA6F feR4bG/yon+S4CiqnsBTMqCJOdMk29iA6fHfqxFP7p0I66Gu70cuzGFG3 GeFLGwlpqB/iVtb+JjNh1GsECc7OPG7WnYJcNoXvddeG8jbQXt4Ar1KDF E=; X-Files: signature.asc : 496 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAGqadlKtJXHB/2dsb2JhbABZFoJxOFPAaRZ0gioCgQsBgQAPGAQTDodzDZw6oHsEkn+BDgOQLoEwhiySCYMmgio X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,627,1378857600"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="280123250" Received: from rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com ([173.37.113.193]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Nov 2013 18:52:35 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com [173.36.12.83]) by rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rA3IqYCu002991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 18:52:35 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.43]) by xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com ([173.36.12.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:52:34 -0600 From: "Matt Miller (mamille2)" To: XMPP Group Thread-Topic: DNA Slides Thread-Index: AQHO2MXbMwX6rHlM2Eq1R+V3A4lYTw== Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 18:52:34 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.146.138] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EA38EDCE-E28E-4240-A35D-EE340B8C3565"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [xmpp] DNA Slides X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 18:52:41 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EA38EDCE-E28E-4240-A35D-EE340B8C3565 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here are my slides for the DNA section of the XMPP meeting on Friday < = https://outer-planes.net/~linuxwolf/ietf/ietf88-xmppwg-dna.pdf >. Feedback appreciated! - m&m Matt Miller < mamille2@cisco.com > Cisco Systems, Inc. --Apple-Mail=_EA38EDCE-E28E-4240-A35D-EE340B8C3565 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJSdpttAAoJEDWi+S0W7cO1pwoH/250D3wTPaJJxEuq3CMzufdE onB9iqpyBltmjJQStu12KTSq+YZ1igrlaqpJjIirG9mJAw6QCpAdDmd7L/X/WP7L L0yFnFIHOScnvL28xhUZommi7vns4COcaxRTf27ODzbJ8kXR9vNYYuLaedmaNI/8 Jbwnv/FmTE+XBdrLgJIW2Uu6EUD5OAcBIy/MKGuGbMD8Ek08AJWUnXy7Abe5ntr/ Jr9OF83RAszK5gUyNrzlC1PCGFuzADWXJKQa6AihUTf4VaFa6LAyWWjCvSneeZGq iETTFrvgxPSxtw6/0lN4xba+4AmyU0rAlsEHMfjVK6nAnrz67iAcijW+NktCcb8= =bl7y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_EA38EDCE-E28E-4240-A35D-EE340B8C3565-- From stpeter@stpeter.im Sun Nov 3 10:58:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E887A21F9E02 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 10:58:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.355 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.355 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.244, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aTHtKcVPonAY for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 10:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77EAF21F9248 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 10:58:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc-vpn3-516.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.239.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B3B504010C; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:58:16 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <52769CC7.6080800@stpeter.im> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 10:58:15 -0800 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [xmpp] xmpp-tls slides X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 18:58:36 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Here are my draft slides about draft-saintandre-xmpp-tls and related topics (if we get that far in the agenda). https://stpeter.im/files/ietf88-xmpp-tls.pdf Enjoy! :-) Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdpzHAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pkDwP/A2iesP5c+UsF2pKkA/zRk12 MK3MHqx0NKEBgGKUHE5lKgWCjnAPkVV2LyIpc937N4RoPAIZO8Ec9k8hznwt8DYV NacBEC/pO0WALl5aPxhxm/1OBE0GAm7zD/AknPR/ydj/AyaGzLGQRmaPUSUXVvhh 1DW5cVE/sWMe+X0A5Fx0ffQZX0F2VZOzThEmeqJORguYIwNBaUvVKOZfeo7nsMlY cD/UHrOrwXdHOS7gNMWwDhuJxUlZkqHX0plgZyEmanKKKdDmWsc58Eg2tM7bocDY EqpGQHEkdgD6wivD0WI8vLrwgXUBnwrZQ3yRbWBBBIcicDUJnLx/opfiRWkI1sCt JqDJX7+BNBssQUoSh/0Z9yX7y4HLRqBBs6beSuAnl3LywMvXnvsCsNwIxtdQbZ1O JOAAq89oM47zls+R/rfnCC2/L4x4s5YMmzOPyUsbSyKiNqUdXkcP2Dmo2g/ubtiS zYxjN67Uh/PnjkQSDh1PKSdyK/HdwUnnvLO40HU41gZ1+F4Bv6M+l43Ewlmxt1pO 9x+5QJZ/l6OpIrKxliYlYDMliKdvbNo/6YjC74283hxKMChfQGg31qi8GO3nC8tl I1oSI8DOqWw+zcLH38gol3So8TwHa1f6lxuMX6uy835PDENybUAxMtRSxqf9eZRJ yJRdwOn9ITLM5lZ5CxtX =nTn4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stpeter@stpeter.im Sun Nov 3 11:05:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D69121E80C7 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:05:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.36 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.36 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.239, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gxn-h5KCmOmd for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:05:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31FF21E80C4 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc-vpn3-516.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.239.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B41074010C; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:05:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <52769E6B.7000605@stpeter.im> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:05:15 -0800 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [xmpp] 6122bis slides X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 19:05:23 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 And here are my (few) slides about 6122bis: https://stpeter.im/files/ietf88-xmpp-6122bis.pdf Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdp5rAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pko0QALADO0fVt6SWdQ6auloEzu6b swmc92bV7owM893xrhv85Y7Dor5T96x9mMlCgx52A1NB4USZtsxifAz6QFnES1ci 8ge43O8Uk2UujBdl0kkZiLB9Zt6qY2uMDMG5SKcyzAnpU5WIOGVLBLSI+czFMsRw QMngmt1aDmkGCWj3hgkU9qVXZxvYiC2cGHPW5hwlku9kww/gkSwIge3zfjx7C7ym n1sCYijPljax5pXNeRMMUMUGAqcA54v+wPSEJfN96NhP1WDjRZXL2+JFfdXgQhsz 4LLJslk54BiyfrpB2AnyK0zl7zaWwSIWb6B6or4/ES/qvc8zuOaVM9Ea4rZEP3/6 gOiTJvtzprtUuRuexzr5nGrod6HxG5fKJdBocit1WLpiFjuoM7GxJUz/fWtZXL0G z9lOJGtLHBxtvktLrYrUvFvdTWBoXryKpUaYrt2j/g9nKy/yYSTJXb9V1KgDUiwY MRKisWIxekxRF9IlYfXd7Jc6n9BStnkYYvzXsfVkQpYi5kmSP9aaYqNZVkrHRyNU H74djMpBPqt3dHtEr4gCVKuq6tLKdbo/Yxf8hZTGzHtaB3D1Ll1TJ6RSh5U4w/kO Lb8mO1jdtoVM+20MiAhB7LTzdyfJvbP0NQtnoX8ZY3r8nUel3tYGOHhp6x7iT88p Ujgl3qthTa8hoeST0bKr =3+0O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From fippo@goodadvice.pages.de Sun Nov 3 11:10:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B81DF21E80C7 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:10:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.164 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.164 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.435, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wRGp4hrP50iu for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from lo.psyced.org (lost.IN.psyced.org [188.40.42.221]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 717E021E80D9 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.101] (p549729A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.151.41.165]) (authenticated bits=0) by lo.psyced.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id rA3JA6fr018973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 20:10:07 +0100 Message-ID: <52769F8B.8090306@goodadvice.pages.de> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:10:03 +0100 From: Philipp Hancke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP Working Group References: <20131020230241.22714.80535.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20131020230241.22714.80535.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xmpp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-xmpp-dna-04.txt X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 19:10:31 -0000 Am 21.10.2013 01:02, schrieb internet-drafts@ietf.org: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Domain Name Associations (DNA) in the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) > Author(s) : Peter Saint-Andre > Matthew Miller > Filename : draft-ietf-xmpp-dna-04.txt > Pages : 16 > Date : 2013-10-20 > > Abstract: > This document improves the security of the Extensible Messaging and > Presence Protocol (XMPP) in two ways. First, it specifies how > "prooftypes" can establish a strong association between a domain name > and an XML stream. Second, it describes how to securely delegate a > source domain to a derived domain, which is especially important in > virtual hosting environments. Just noticed that none of the terminology defined in section 2 is actually used. I think the reference to XEP-0238 can therefore be removed. I do suspect the figure showing the overall process can be simplified as proposed in https://github.com/fippo/xmpp-fed/commit/913a183a5a74ea7b03a1b8a67164bb35df9e0c9b but it has been long enough since that commit that I need to recheck this. More thorough review to follow. From fippo@goodadvice.pages.de Sun Nov 3 11:31:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B40921E80CF for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:31:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.381 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.381 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.218, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sfF9OOyoHywL for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from lo.psyced.org (lost.IN.psyced.org [188.40.42.221]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 402EE11E82CE for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 11:31:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.101] (p549729A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.151.41.165]) (authenticated bits=0) by lo.psyced.org (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.4) with ESMTP id rA3JV8v7019472 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 20:31:09 +0100 Message-ID: <5276A479.9020404@goodadvice.pages.de> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:31:05 +0100 From: Philipp Hancke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130803 Thunderbird/17.0.8 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP Working Group References: <52769CC7.6080800@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <52769CC7.6080800@stpeter.im> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xmpp] xmpp-tls slides X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 19:31:20 -0000 [...] > https://stpeter.im/files/ietf88-xmpp-tls.pdf slide 3: Few server-to-server connections TLS-protected I think most s2s connections (*) are actually using TLS for encryption, so it's 80% using TLS. However, few of those connections are using certificates which enable strong authentication (my pessimistic view on that is 5%). (*): apart from a large deployment which doesn't even do xmpp-1.0; unfortunately, this deployment is behind 15% of the domains I know of. slide 9: s/PKIK/PKIX/? From stpeter@stpeter.im Sun Nov 3 12:27:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2FA21E810A for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:27:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.064 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.064 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.065, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_38=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i+Kqg1x3VOde for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:27:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF6B321E812F for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc-vpn7-585.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.239.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 25BED4010C; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 13:27:34 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <5276B1B5.1040600@stpeter.im> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:27:33 -0800 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philipp Hancke , XMPP Working Group References: <52769CC7.6080800@stpeter.im> <5276A479.9020404@goodadvice.pages.de> In-Reply-To: <5276A479.9020404@goodadvice.pages.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xmpp] xmpp-tls slides X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:27:45 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/3/13 11:31 AM, Philipp Hancke wrote: > [...] >> https://stpeter.im/files/ietf88-xmpp-tls.pdf > > slide 3: Few server-to-server connections TLS-protected > > I think most s2s connections (*) are actually using TLS for > encryption, so it's 80% using TLS. However, few of those > connections are using certificates which enable strong > authentication (my pessimistic view on that is 5%). In fact I don't have numbers on that. It would be good to collect some stats. Maybe the jabber.org admins can do that for us? ;-) This gives renewed impetus to also documenting TLS+Dialback. > (*): apart from a large deployment which doesn't even do xmpp-1.0; > unfortunately, this deployment is behind 15% of the domains I know > of. That's unfortunate indeed. > slide 9: s/PKIK/PKIX/? Noted. I'll upload corrected slides shortly. Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdrG0AAoJEOoGpJErxa2pu54P/juzG2gSJ+6WxAi6fhdiYtzs YJ+GUZg0duWsbLflpSDxd1r6NkWCWhGiln4bnUJE/FtJ+3tcXaNWrNXHrZwdhi89 3UkpvoDwNXTqgrIpHLaCvDeQqQKQIVk7acSSShIEBObws0XCzG0PFxpSefScfqP8 8QGiKwn1UqVK4cXxpvBfgbzh8840jFWhvXa4XrL7GSrynzJPKFThcz0YyxS0FyV1 l9rXQZfrgjDwhT4QfBwD+YHtXYEZ0+dcLUA14GMGIULylCf9ALFBS8qFvTDAMRRj B7YnCf6m9XT13MEamG44ehQZcONyAPRtD4BqOGdoBzCD0qs1rRRP9N9qFXRwMtcm eD9RBRJug60qGXTTCNu78dEnBUPgHXjFekU6BUUetPRbjY50QgSn5aZpKwpkhskx RSRdKM4TUHqK23iCUCkNq+idzST7Ob442sYL5qGfUt0jEqOomMh+F57gY/2gIh5a EEFnxmKadCROW5njbyG50KMYov0X1RdwbqfzBECeh6LGxCdxz8HvEXsrpjvCZ8Da rrVqc5sRp9NStMV34rJoB7wsNA7OpiPLpQLbl7hmIyu4f6jR713hCDzg89NArWLk ppma1sIOZHY7qFuLDadMEWNnUQ8QOZqUGAhJLX9E1n8UGPvS7juzny2VCZHJs6MF j2sg1WUqrXS+JadtjXOK =UrkC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stpeter@stpeter.im Sun Nov 3 12:36:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61FF521E8056 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:36:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.063 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.063 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_38=0.6, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jjtq-2j1Gyhj for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E9611E812A for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:36:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc-vpn7-585.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.239.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C8C04010C; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 13:36:44 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <5276B3DC.1060804@stpeter.im> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:36:44 -0800 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philipp Hancke , XMPP Working Group References: <52769CC7.6080800@stpeter.im> <5276A479.9020404@goodadvice.pages.de> <5276B1B5.1040600@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <5276B1B5.1040600@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xmpp] xmpp-tls slides X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:36:54 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/3/13 12:27 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > On 11/3/13 11:31 AM, Philipp Hancke wrote: >> [...] >>> https://stpeter.im/files/ietf88-xmpp-tls.pdf > >> slide 3: Few server-to-server connections TLS-protected > >> I think most s2s connections (*) are actually using TLS for >> encryption, so it's 80% using TLS. However, few of those >> connections are using certificates which enable strong >> authentication (my pessimistic view on that is 5%). > > In fact I don't have numbers on that. It would be good to collect > some stats. Maybe the jabber.org admins can do that for us? ;-) > > This gives renewed impetus to also documenting TLS+Dialback. Philipp, I'd be happy to collaborate with you on that. >> (*): apart from a large deployment which doesn't even do >> xmpp-1.0; unfortunately, this deployment is behind 15% of the >> domains I know of. > > That's unfortunate indeed. > >> slide 9: s/PKIK/PKIX/? > > Noted. > > I'll upload corrected slides shortly. Done at the URL above. Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdrPbAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pxEMQAIxrw9XnJXsBqlxGhxMO8BtS KTHdQgKdXvk1ewTVxsrXaztu/esAyigtadyYrgFbsoIr8XmyVrSPybzr58hRAT9L 0IpKt+bXnYb1UyfrOBIk6TM6ymm1Zi6tzts0i1H4g2pSYxJ0EakWwwn6GPInIwCs A0mlMtT03avoV6G7u3mSKiFoV0nzgVfC8NyDm5zamIjnPcyaKja+PbWZ7OsssjSs jtpUS7uq4awv1JWLMu2SiAI/6yLDUEL1iWzJH7A92AWZfoXw/SWQzW7t4EmJsr4w kLRNlI4MLpduf/b9N/3C0Kng+LLQeP+I/hNl3H4Kx2OmhwPz6zco+4Tn1bOPrSc2 NUQVNKEtEmwSiPQSj/zM92fDOk5k3X6kI4SIM+bClMLQyNUeyzJeIy2I4bZ7ZQO8 p8mxK3RMEb/sEbFcJz2iHvhbz6GS8WKUzj7nKm/+QLjNXZbOlbG/jCUR5sfM7/BT pRPdkhj2UWzBQrgNlfto4kRfhG8dtOH/tgbpPYr2c33Bjvbf97bt0llSkqycPg3s U1nrM36f3/l7CwuMwz/wOEtT9dqkALYZwvT8x2AX5IUxneYlWS3nBZscBiCUpW+h RnBkvekuif5NNcV756Nocc/+fAlWRhr1BmSeWUZ+UAPSeFs8uxiNSs8IaleZxoy5 x3XxNYGlDTOoliTp6rJX =4ngT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stpeter@stpeter.im Sun Nov 3 12:44:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC50A21E8104 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:44:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.362 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.362 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.237, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GvpP4Abj5iAG for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:44:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DAAB21E80AF for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 12:44:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc-vpn7-585.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.239.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 285F04010C; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 13:44:11 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <5276B59A.8060708@stpeter.im> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:44:10 -0800 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [xmpp] foo-over-TLS during APPSAWG session tomorrow X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2013 20:44:30 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Because this came together somewhat at the last minute, I forgot to mention that during the APPSAWG discussion tomorrow morning, various folks will talk about the use of TLS in their application protocols. I'll be talking about XMPP, others will talk about email and HTTP and SIP, and we'll have a general discussion about aligning these guidelines (or not). More information here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/88/agenda/appsawg/ Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSdrWaAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pdLkP/1rcPqCLUfX+wlMXR27bJyh+ uLogT9Nc7hNDnV0LK+c1qGVtt+5jl2NXgKNYIen/a3PDwq3SmwF8zvj+8FYnolIg Mc/uuVcoET6iaDmefjgN36TpKN+KmhfwEx6Kx/kkDgu+DcCjej3QIHZ9Fw2Ly/59 3FlkMyGtlAtH5GwJWntc1dHWSwrqdSwTTNL+VtvxobfpU16Zz2HdPHzo6dUqPFQb Hu5Jf1GWym9bGyRMcvi2/iocEHx2nEs/m6kyey4++sPG6UqwqQXA/Muu9wI4BFAs 1pt6yUFRzXSJu6tgkGljOCKKm0UAS+OE53//zzTYW7C3L1Qc3xbe6Rj0qGVkfGLe Zhmn+tDFF9P2ihg1mO/0ZJNXmqlyPAhbVOx33qLxxvHhGXaEpItOzxUtKZgcP86P z0P8OIv4lbVJzs/f9NZwjccBaMhnoz9keKmk2rU6UpDOLmfevmw1Uv2tRDaaxgzo /q3Sbm86cfDtwP/EKCfBL9pWfvfKEcjJGAUwv5ROto8oW8uT7jt/ra51dnQj1IuS O4kZqIm6orEyNgj1B8L9sbGhpvAYkRZOesAL24eDMgwVGVf2DEuDxz7uYCR8cBeW 0vqIixomCdjaQbARAPBFkUWixLdP4fbe3pqW8jz+sTLcQy5Zlr4b4xGqbsbeLi05 FJOOhrlVkWXDSlStgPbM =LE/3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Nov 4 15:04:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A65BD21E81F2 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:04:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.318 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.318 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.151, BAYES_00=-2.599, SARE_RMML_Stock9=0.13, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Eq9SUa7FeCz1 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9162D21E8225 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:04:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from ergon.local (unknown [128.107.239.234]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0A4E44010C; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 16:04:01 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <527827DF.8090908@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 15:03:59 -0800 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP References: <52769CC7.6080800@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <52769CC7.6080800@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xmpp] xmpp-tls slides X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 23:04:13 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/3/13 10:58 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > Here are my draft slides about draft-saintandre-xmpp-tls and > related topics (if we get that far in the agenda). > > https://stpeter.im/files/ietf88-xmpp-tls.pdf When I presented the slides this morning, I found an error in the slide order. I've uploaded revised slides to the foregoing URL. Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSeCffAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pZVgP/1CD/57deK48cm1uskxwNHVW T+nWfD+fhR4b5jMn1g+YS35iNaSCvXcnOwNlAFFMTLNB/kvyXCm/bjSJSKmH+LD4 Bw3fYFBtQ0qyUkOCIL1dsVFDn2Ls4W8ZT0A268d3Fsn3kI5BcNR7NirdUKwhDEYs keSa0nCzS7dY2BGmMcyqWHGB3++zR6AI5mrcihG2Gb3N7ngekkw6gb/Wt6jw0dky 19PXTxoKmBkAE1gD1JyUZStsF62AoLoenxR5gwzSDQ//WMEnCan7fZkNaGLCnUGB 4mh7W0NgpgLDs47+uOZIqbb6jBIb8QcCe1B25kIdcRTUnPhBmnyBESLQ+bCSDuWi vAVa0d71j/ahQUC/Zfq70aV5DnzLSmcvclm1LxqxTzMOMQM8ZJA6sdXlCkVX1xA9 bWDQgP2lhbAloMAnJkfGmRBFDotf1EW6XwYedCU16whAvq2dCsxyv92wfPmM8a3w Yocb7eYzyk9tqZvp6hlC2TXMNS7XsszBDJ4SypMHcVHnXh6MPM1JFrL7Nf8hhKaF /WusuQLhVVvjr8UmWPtKE1bb4qPMjyn4u347CxWkVzoy9XLm76I2W6f/Yl0IlDF1 ZtRjIqq/A9VJBdM218N44Ba4WeSWybbRgVOHeQiX2UxftEkqREBdd5nfdYnoLYnV vw0kma6kjKW75rzgkyRz =2vi1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Nov 4 16:22:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 806BF21E8352 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 16:22:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.386 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.386 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.213, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5jzlZA-mJaDJ for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 16:22:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 951AB21E82EB for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 16:22:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ergon.local (unknown [128.107.239.234]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7FDCA4032B; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:22:38 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <52783A4C.5030102@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 16:22:36 -0800 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [xmpp] 6122bis examples X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 00:22:52 -0000 In the past, I have promised to add some examples to 6122bis. However, I have also neglected to do so. Here is some proposed text. If folks would like more examples, I'd be happy to add them. ### 3.5. Examples The following examples illustrate a small number of JIDs that are consistent with the format defined above. Table 1: A sample of legal JIDs +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | # | JID | Notes | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 1 | juliet@example.com | A "bare JID" | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 2 | juliet@example.com/foo | A "full JID" | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 3 | juliet@example.com/foo bar | Single space in resourcepart | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 4 | fussball@example.com | Another bare JID | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 5 | fußball@example.com | The third character is LATIN | | | | SMALL LETTER SHARP S (U+00DF) | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 6 | π@example.com | A localpart of GREEK SMALL | | | | LETTER PI (U+03C0) | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 7 | π@example.com/Σ | A resourcepart of GREEK CAPITAL | | | | LETTER SIGMA (U+03A3) | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 8 | π@example.com/σ | A resourcepart of GREEK SMALL | | | | LETTER SIGMA (U+03C3) | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 9 | π@example.com/ς | A resourcepart of GREEK SMALL | | | | LETTER FINAL SIGMA (U+03C2) | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 10| henryiv@example.com/♚| A resourcepart of the Unicode | | | | character BLACK CHESS KING | | | | (U+265A) | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ Several points might be worth noting here. Regarding examples 4 and 5: although in German the character esszett (LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S, U+00DF) can mostly be used interchangeably with the two characters "ss", the localparts in these examples are different and (if desired) a server would need to enforce a registration policy that disallows one of them if the other is registered. Regarding examples 7, 8, and 9: case-mapping of GREEK CAPITAL LETTER SIGMA (U+03A3) to lowercase (i.e., to GREEK SMALL LETTER SIGMA, U+03C3) during comparison would result in matching the JIDs in examples 7 and 8; PRECIS mapping rules do not account for the special status of GREEK SMALL LETTER FINAL SIGMA (U+03C2), so the JIDs in examples 8 and 9 would not be matched. Regarding example 10: symbol characters such as BLACK CHESS KING (U+265A) are allowed by the PRECIS FreeformClass. The following examples illustrate strings that are not JIDs because they violate the format defined above. Table 2: A sample of strings that violate the JID rules +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | # | Non-JID string | Notes | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 1 | "juliet"@example.com | Quotation marks (U+0022) are | | | | not allowed in the localpart | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 2 | foo bar@example.com | Spaces are not allowed in the | | | | localpart | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 3 | ♚@example.com | Symbol characters (e.g., U+265A)| | | | are not allowed in the localpart| +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 4 | juliet@example.com/ foo | Leading spaces are not allowed | | | | in the resourcepart | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | 5 | juliet@example.com/foo bar | Double spaces are not allowed | | | | in the resourcepart | +---------------------------------+---------------------------------+ ### From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Nov 4 16:53:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D62B221E836B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 16:53:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.425 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.425 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.174, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wxUzKXBc2Jnu for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3151311E82C7 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 16:53:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ergon.local (unknown [128.107.239.233]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0B9034032B; Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:53:45 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <52784199.8030405@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 16:53:45 -0800 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP References: <52783C71.1020109@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <52783C71.1020109@stpeter.im> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <52783C71.1020109@stpeter.im> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [xmpp] Fwd: [Standards] XEP-0156 v1.1rc1 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 00:53:51 -0000 FYI. The idea is that we'd use the (proposed) HTTP lookup method for XMPP over WebSocket, *not* the existing DNS TXT method. Peter -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Standards] XEP-0156 v1.1rc1 Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2013 16:31:45 -0800 From: Peter Saint-Andre Reply-To: XMPP Standards To: XMPP Standards Lance Stout and I have worked on an updated version of XEP-0156: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html We might want to point to this document from the IETF spec for XMPP over WebSocket: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ This will very likely be a topic for discussion during the XMPP WG session this Friday at IETF 88. Peter From ben@nostrum.com Tue Nov 5 10:25:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB6911E8184 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2013 10:25:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gwa41JcwRzQj for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2013 10:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaman.nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8072F11E816F for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2013 10:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.119.8.1] (prod02.i.dfw.fullmeshnetworks.com [174.34.135.220] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by shaman.nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id rA5IPCJ6048329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 5 Nov 2013 12:25:14 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <76A075A0-6A3B-4999-A22C-26D188604636@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 10:25:07 -0800 To: XMPP Group , Lance Stout Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1816\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1816) Received-SPF: pass (shaman.nostrum.com: 174.34.135.220 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: [xmpp] Comments/Questions on draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 18:25:21 -0000 (As individual) -- section 3.5: Does it make sense to distinguish a =93clean=94 closure from otherwise? = (Perhaps with a MUST close the stream for a clean closure...) -- 3.8: Is the client expected to know if it=92s talking to a connection manager = rather than the xmpp server? -- 3.9: Does this create problems if a server wants to force TLS?=20 What are the security associations if a connection manager is in the = path? Is it possible to have an e2e TLS SA between client and server if = there=92s a connection manager? -- 4: Should this section have normative language? This section has an informative reference to XEP-0156. On a quick read, = I wonder if that should not be normative, in the sense that one needs to = understand XEP-0156 to understand this section. OTOH, the DNS use of = XMPP over TCP is defined in 6120, as it's pretty core to the protocol. = Is it appropriate to reference a XEP for something like that? (I note that Peter said in a separate email that this XEP is about to = change. But I'm not sure that changes my concern about referencing a XEP = for something this fundamental to the protocol.) -- 5 (security considerations) Seems like we need more here. Is authentication still at xmpp level? = (there's a brief mention of sasl handshakes=97does anything change? If = not, say so.)=20 It=92s probably worth noting that ws prevents you from using the cert = toauthorize the xmpp service, rather than just the ws service. is that = okay? In general, I think we need to address the tension between = XMPP/WebSocket removing some degree of application layer control over = how TLS is used, while at the same time we have a draft from Peter that = proposes to strengthen the rules for TLS in XMPP. I don't necessarily = know whether that's a problem or not--but we should explicitly discuss = it and document that discussion here. Thanks! Ben.= From lancestout@gmail.com Tue Nov 5 15:41:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61F921E80AF for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2013 15:41:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rmfTuw8L7pKR for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2013 15:41:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-x233.google.com (mail-pa0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::233]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E0721E80D1 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2013 15:41:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id ld10so9577563pab.24 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:41:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=Wsyenrgf56gVme3UGrL2Eb10qQBMlv/uJGEKNglfA9s=; b=upmNndqa/oK/RhdZpEcYj7Lwn1cNkp4mt1+nRWsJTRNCtnbJjXB5hpi41qdUabqB/D 342RQiEOu3A6vRfvS568dDu/d/+EjQ/8nOkn0+KydR07GHqYgA1qDwSiiu5OP3T0Mrts OAlmQHWcXPICat9aiwtLZnxrVIcSfhUNbfqM//Lgebylx4vudr3L0WZE3SoBGne5ZZtY 14HSbxU8W17bfgNjS0L/EPY1z+4XIKEvxJDPTWufQOTG3W7+EocJQ9ZpMMow+MbpFt8L 1YLLXBSlHWzMck8xo+tGns8K190R9AJf7ybOWsmhROgBDnDnAbrfb0TATJolFkF1yGQb xm+Q== X-Received: by 10.68.35.229 with SMTP id l5mr202044pbj.134.1383694874835; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.2.195] (71-84-176-17.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com. [71.84.176.17]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ql10sm35690369pbc.44.2013.11.05.15.41.13 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Nov 2013 15:41:13 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ADF8CC67-A92A-40DD-9B36-DF4C0AE82702"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1816\)) From: Lance Stout In-Reply-To: <76A075A0-6A3B-4999-A22C-26D188604636@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 15:41:11 -0800 Message-Id: References: <76A075A0-6A3B-4999-A22C-26D188604636@nostrum.com> To: XMPP Working Group X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1816) Subject: Re: [xmpp] Comments/Questions on draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 23:41:18 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ADF8CC67-A92A-40DD-9B36-DF4C0AE82702 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Nov 5, 2013, at 10:25 AM, Ben Campbell wrote: > (As individual) >=20 > -- section 3.5: >=20 > Does it make sense to distinguish a =93clean=94 closure from = otherwise? (Perhaps with a MUST close the stream for a clean closure...) Yes, it does make sense in the context of using XEP-0198 for stream = management. I thought I had that defined, but it looks like one more = sentence making that more explicit would be good. > -- 3.8: >=20 > Is the client expected to know if it=92s talking to a connection = manager rather than the xmpp server? >=20 > -- 3.9: >=20 > Does this create problems if a server wants to force TLS?=20 >=20 > What are the security associations if a connection manager is in the = path? Is it possible to have an e2e TLS SA between client and server if = there=92s a connection manager? IMO, the concept of third-party connection managers needs to go away.=20 =46rom the consuming side, I only see 'The XMPP Server' whose domain = matches the cert used by the WebSocket connection. Now, in reality I may = be talking to an intermediate connection manager/load balancer, but it = is one provided by the same organization as the XMPP server proper and = with the same level of trust (of course, using TLS for internal server = links looks to be a good idea nowadays). But, what if you want to use a connection manager to establish a = WebSocket connection to a domain that does not natively provide = WebSocket access? You could use your own personal manager, in which case = the trust issue goes back to that of a normal TCP session as long as you = trust yourself for the security of the WebSocket data. However, it's = game over security-wise if you have to use someone else's connection = manager because the data has to be converted back to plaintext for = WebSocket, particularly in order to satisfy the framing requirements. FWIW, from my experience, third-party connection managers are only used = for Facebook. > -- 4: >=20 > Should this section have normative language? >=20 > This section has an informative reference to XEP-0156. On a quick = read, I wonder if that should not be normative, in the sense that one = needs to understand XEP-0156 to understand this section. OTOH, the DNS = use of XMPP over TCP is defined in 6120, as it's pretty core to the = protocol. Is it appropriate to reference a XEP for something like that? >=20 > (I note that Peter said in a separate email that this XEP is about to = change. But I'm not sure that changes my concern about referencing a XEP = for something this fundamental to the protocol.) No opinion here either way. The updated XEP-0156, if accepted, would be = a much nicer fit than the DNS method (by using the browser-accessible = .well-known/host-meta file). We already have RFC 6120 referencing = XEP-0156 for fallback discovery mechanisms.=20 Ben: Are you suggesting that XEP-0156 needs to become an RFC or = incorporated into 6120bis? > -- 5 (security considerations) >=20 > Seems like we need more here. Is authentication still at xmpp level? = (there's a brief mention of sasl handshakes=97does anything change? If = not, say so.) Good point. Consensus at one point was that authentication *can* be done = at the WebSocket level (auth headers/session cookie/etc), but that a = SASL EXTERNAL would be needed at the XMPP layer for it. I think this = should be revisited Friday. > It=92s probably worth noting that ws prevents you from using the cert = toauthorize the xmpp service, rather than just the ws service. is that = okay? Right, that would be an issue for third-pary connection managers. For a = first party service, I think the WS server and the XMPP server should be = responding as the same domain, since there is no distinguishing = difference to the end client. > In general, I think we need to address the tension between = XMPP/WebSocket removing some degree of application layer control over = how TLS is used, while at the same time we have a draft from Peter that = proposes to strengthen the rules for TLS in XMPP. I don't necessarily = know whether that's a problem or not--but we should explicitly discuss = it and document that discussion here. +1 to discussion. -- Lance= --Apple-Mail=_ADF8CC67-A92A-40DD-9B36-DF4C0AE82702 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIM5jCCBjQw ggQcoAMCAQICASAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0 Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxKTAn BgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA3MTAyNDIxMDI1NVoX DTE3MTAyNDIxMDI1NVowgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSsw KQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFy dENvbSBDbGFzcyAyIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMsohUWcASz7GfKrpTOMKqANy9BV7V0igWdGxA8IU77L3aTxErQ+ 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[96.41.205.84]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sd3sm4137139pbb.42.2013.11.07.02.43.00 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Nov 2013 02:43:01 -0800 (PST) From: Lance Stout Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F31BEC8C-5AE6-4958-B946-50F7F3794993"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Message-Id: <30D19510-1389-4D2F-89F3-07CB28085D0A@andyet.net> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 02:42:53 -0800 To: XMPP Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1816\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1816) Subject: [xmpp] WebSocket slides X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 10:43:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F31BEC8C-5AE6-4958-B946-50F7F3794993 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here are my slides for Friday's XMPP over WebSocket discussion: http://f.cl.ly/items/283f2x100S0s0f2O3J3a/ietfslides.pdf -- Lance --Apple-Mail=_F31BEC8C-5AE6-4958-B946-50F7F3794993 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIM5jCCBjQw ggQcoAMCAQICASAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0 Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxKTAn BgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA3MTAyNDIxMDI1NVoX DTE3MTAyNDIxMDI1NVowgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSsw KQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFy dENvbSBDbGFzcyAyIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMsohUWcASz7GfKrpTOMKqANy9BV7V0igWdGxA8IU77L3aTxErQ+ fcxtDYZ36Z6GH0YFn7fq5RADteP0AYzrCA+EQTfi8q1+kA3m0nwtwXG94M5sIqsvs7lRP1aycBke 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6Dxfb0VzBGIC2yVWP5arrAAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail=_F31BEC8C-5AE6-4958-B946-50F7F3794993-- From ben@nostrum.com Thu Nov 7 09:17:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 823DD11E8188 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 09:17:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.434 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.434 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.166, BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bm26HhIxF9zh for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 09:17:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaman.nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DA721E8134 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 09:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-bc5b.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-bc5b.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.188.91]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaman.nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id rA7HH4km092087 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 11:17:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <84CFD403-CBFD-4F2C-B78E-96BF687E7F7F@nostrum.com> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 09:17:03 -0800 To: XMPP Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1816\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1816) Received-SPF: pass (shaman.nostrum.com: 31.133.188.91 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: [xmpp] Meeting Materials and Logistics X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 17:17:59 -0000 Hi, The materials for tomorrow's XMPP meeting are available at the following = link: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/88/materials.html#xmpp We need volunteers for at least one minutes taker (two is better. If we = can get volunteers prior to the meeting, we can get started more quickly = and with less arm twisting :-) The minutes do not have to be a = play-by-play; a list of issues and resolutions is sufficient.=20 We also need at least one XMPP scribe. Again, we don't necessarily need = a play-by-play, but we do need someone to at least monitor the chat in = case any remote participants wish to have comments taken to the = microphone. (Somehow I suspect we've got some highly skilled XMPP = scribes in this group ;-) ) Thanks! Ben.= From ben@nostrum.com Tue Nov 12 10:48:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 834B321E8104 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:48:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TX-h0pzatw3a for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:48:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaman.nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCDED21F9FA7 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.119.24.13] (216.6.236.172.rdns.ubiquityservers.com [216.6.236.172] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by shaman.nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id rACImNbk007477 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:48:26 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3A3492A1-C538-4F51-87B9-A2330DA08F20@nostrum.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 10:48:18 -0800 To: XMPP Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) Received-SPF: pass (shaman.nostrum.com: 216.6.236.172 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: [xmpp] Draft Minutes X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 18:48:51 -0000 Hi Everyone, The draft minutes for last week's XMPP meeting are available at the = following link. Many thanks to Andrew Biggs for capturing the details. Please send any additions or corrections to the list and chairs as soon = as possible. Thanks! Ben. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/minutes/minutes-88-xmpp= From mamille2@cisco.com Tue Nov 12 14:42:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE76A21E80C4 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:42:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dBCt0bHycw4N for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:41:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B8E21E8090 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:41:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4236; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1384296118; x=1385505718; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:mime-version; bh=ADxSDewnD6G+dhS187k+VIYG9PRV5D5F6aYz7Rqx1oU=; b=GcPZwXx1M4nrKdDkZylb3G2GB8Y3Zx79+ZiQdYYDcRA4aDRs1eKQrYWv ET4ZxDhDJql3mErLlPuWidw2TC07uH54xn97rRgQazh59MQyz4kcV50dl vPYGtvab2myQfskr9mvqT2ishfUG8VJldOsz7lv8UrGDEf6XenS6Oa5Aq I=; X-Files: signature.asc : 496 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjMFAESuglKtJV2a/2dsb2JhbABQAQmDBzhNBr8lgSoWdIIlAQEBAwEBAQFrEAsCARkDAQIvJwsUBwIIAgQRAgkFh20GCAW/PY4WBgGBMRMLgxqBEQOQMIEwhi+BL4smhTWDJkCBMTk X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,688,1378857600"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="283963200" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2013 22:41:57 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com [173.37.183.81]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rACMfvuE007612 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 22:41:57 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.19]) by xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([173.37.183.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:41:57 -0600 From: "Matt Miller (mamille2)" To: XMPP Group Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-miller-posh-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHO3/czbIgeC8ua8Uu/m7+WbWWgwA== Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 22:41:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20131112223059.28813.29567.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.101.72.44] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B645E1E5-5A19-400E-BF07-F2450EB2D885"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [xmpp] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-miller-posh-03.txt X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 22:42:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B645E1E5-5A19-400E-BF07-F2450EB2D885 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii FYI; a minor update to note it's primary applicability to XMPP. - m&m Matt Miller < mamille2@cisco.com > Cisco Systems, Inc. Begin forwarded message: > From: > Subject: I-D Action: draft-miller-posh-03.txt > Date: November 12, 2013 at 3:30:59 PM MST > To: > Reply-To: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >=20 >=20 > Title : PKIX over Secure HTTP (POSH) > Author(s) : Matthew Miller > Peter Saint-Andre > Filename : draft-miller-posh-03.txt > Pages : 15 > Date : 2013-11-12 >=20 > Abstract: > Experience has shown that it is extremely difficult to deploy proper > PKIX certificates for TLS in multi-tenanted environments, since > certification authorities will not issue certificates for hosted > domains to hosting services, hosted domains do not want hosting > services to hold their private keys, and hosting services wish to > avoid liability for holding those keys. As a result, domains hosted > in multi-tenanted environments often deploy non-HTTP applications > such as email and instant messaging using certificates that identify > the hosting service, not the hosted domain. Such deployments force > end users and peer services to accept a certificate with an improper > identifier, resulting in obvious security implications. This > document defines two methods that make it easier to deploy > certificates for proper server identity checking in non-HTTP > application protocols. The first method enables the TLS client > associated with a user agent or peer application server to obtain = the > end-entity certificate of a hosted domain over secure HTTP as an > alternative to standard PKIX techniques. The second method enables = a > hosted domain to securely delegate a non-HTTP application to a > hosting service using redirects provided by HTTPS itself or by a > pointer in a file served over HTTPS at the hosted domain. While = this > approach is developed for use in the Extensible Messaging and > Presence Protocol (XMPP) as a Domain Name Association prooftype, it > can be applied to any non-HTTP application protocol. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-miller-posh >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-miller-posh-03 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-miller-posh-03 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt --Apple-Mail=_B645E1E5-5A19-400E-BF07-F2450EB2D885 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJSgq60AAoJEDWi+S0W7cO1C4oH/RqywBdTsuqWxCqZSaEPfPqo LpkWqtCC57YL0zFZis9R308GhcxxHxlkSFMC0AsRXp3HN7YDUv0bAIt0sZ4YfXjZ 4JLSyQBuA0FzEIJ7CHyuqJ33AjNwXsB+y2Tht3lvD73dUthiJOi3JHkUXw0X2irz RSPd1pSolVDLn/6rHvtQ5fMBvecz8PU1Txs9uKzuue00Urq8w9wbXZy1b++r5rUq TX5EFbGdA/DbqufpldmEluYUDJRJWd7H++Tbj2fG/bsoLjocy582D5BYvnwowGU4 ny3/axxvP0FMod97P8/2Z4ocv6mlsoAfF2CHxt4hmQUsYS9WgDfiNXjWRyqUbnQ= =IIix -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B645E1E5-5A19-400E-BF07-F2450EB2D885-- From internet-drafts@ietf.org Fri Nov 15 19:58:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8CC11E8211; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 19:58:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.288 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.288 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.312, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fBJ8vrloBB6G; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 19:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3656911E8208; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 19:57:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.83.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20131116035759.5441.96229.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 19:57:59 -0800 Cc: xmpp@ietf.org Subject: [xmpp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 03:58:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protoco= l Working Group of the IETF. Title : Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP): Addre= ss Format Author(s) : Peter Saint-Andre Filename : draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-09.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2013-11-15 Abstract: This document defines the address format for the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP), including support for code points outside the ASCII range. This document obsoletes RFC 6122. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From stpeter@stpeter.im Fri Nov 15 20:07:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FBDF11E8174 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:07:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ls9I-RaJztWL for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:06:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF0B11E8165 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 20:06:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ergon.local (unknown [71.237.13.154]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 373264010C; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:06:57 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <5286EF60.3060200@stpeter.im> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:06:56 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xmpp@ietf.org References: <20131116035759.5441.96229.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20131116035759.5441.96229.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [xmpp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-09.txt X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 04:07:05 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/15/13 8:57 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. This draft is a work item of the Extensible Messaging > and Presence Protocol Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol > (XMPP): Address Format Author(s) : Peter Saint-Andre Filename > : draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-09.txt Pages : 24 Date > : 2013-11-15 > > Abstract: This document defines the address format for the > Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP), including > support for code points outside the ASCII range. This document > obsoletes RFC 6122. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-09 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-09 As promised, I've added some examples of JIDs and of strings that are not consistent with the JID syntax. I also cleaned up the text in a few places. Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJShu9gAAoJEOoGpJErxa2p8GQP/RCGXGfWzKYnD1cu+IPGixvs iXM7fePklFRqbDyiW9FsuB3T6CiF5gsjvaOPmjk4T0jRlB6RZNufS/8nOdMfuthY EJ6ztABdhlppWZBjY8kIbKWDGNjNdd7OCO7avbpAYYqZlg36cobbgqQN4hM7l/uZ sGh6EUbYoWn5lDOmmdmDumsz/MdJEd2ibc5JDA7m5xLGeZB6lSeh5SwE1/uu1VYL HIIPaqNPUrZChbPDME+piV6Tk/0VzeQaZfPZm/VpNrKl5zaSy7N1z/iW8LUzIDtO MwsNJI8WtfySREsG9bfG+c5Lv0RRnAIGXWNcxnBvp1l28ffmH0K5ix6X467KshMJ ODv0mAczI/19tNA+y+oK4RW+65lfJRL9SbVF0AjS9GMfXB1fhxTz/DU7fr5JZHMR BfiDsyAoJcqTCqsW/R6K1llc1XpdLEYCMQy2qWE/NyAz6JqapDvhULIHUFMF1vbo QcJoDp8ScNlgYZs4eziViLk4cfLlJno60wZmG3qYNZMi9Jf5m0qGnYK0r9NKmO3O 3cLjTFJmATOOnVD0azVvXZTzvzYy0FFFCDoyzzhyQyB7EV0wik+8Mcct0HtMYkND Z1rhdNKNp7mnY2ufaxEnEXUCz7l3VCJgeUcoJRnl2E639jlY9XM/F4eLYBkk8FaV JVAn78dIkdZX7je5utGV =LKTh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ben@nostrum.com Mon Nov 18 09:52:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5254B11E822D for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:52:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zWuNBvrjn0mP for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:52:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from shaman.nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732D011E822F for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:47:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.10.2] (mobile-166-147-068-167.mycingular.net [166.147.68.167]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaman.nostrum.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id rAIHkk6q077642 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:46:48 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) From: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:46:41 -0600 References: <20131116192109.11370.23437.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: XMPP Group Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.0 \(1822\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1822) Received-SPF: pass (shaman.nostrum.com: 166.147.68.167 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) Subject: [xmpp] Fwd: NOMCOM - final call for feedback, nominee list X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:52:23 -0000 Hi Everyone, Please give feedback to the nomcom. This is important stuff. Thanks! Ben. Begin forwarded message: > From: NomCom Chair 2013 > Subject: NOMCOM - final call for feedback, nominee list > Date: November 16, 2013 at 1:21:09 PM CST > To: IETF Announcement List > Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org > Reply-To: nomcom13@ietf.org > > Help the Nomcom: this is the last call for general feedback on > nominees. This email includes the willing nominee list for your > convenience, as per RFC 5680. WG chairs, please forward this > email to your WGs. > > WARNING - DO NOT reply to this email with feedback - the > announcement tool provides an unpredictable Reply-To field. > You may send mail to nomcom13, but please do continue > reading for additional info. > > The deadline is midnight (any timezone) Wed Nov 20. > > Enter your feedback into the encrypted nomcom tool at: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2013/feedback/ > > All feedback is confidential. > > Select individual nominees, or select an area (e.g. INT Multiple) if you > want to give feedback on multiple nominees for that area in one entry. > > The Nomcom will greatly appreciate your concrete and detailed > thoughts on nominees. > > You need to have a datatracker account in order to enter feedback. > This is the site to access either to create a datatracker account or to > reset the password on an existing account: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/accounts/ > > As we announced last week, we are sharing the names of the willing > nominees in this email, as part of our use of RFC 5680 Open List in this > nomcom cycle. These names (appearing at the end of the email) > have been available within the datatracker since our first call for > feedback; we hope some people will be extra encouraged to provide > feedback by seeing the names prior to datatracker login. All your > feedback must be entered in the encrypted nomcom site (or mailed to > nomcom-chair-2013@ietf.org or nomcom13@ietf.org). You may ask the > chair or any another nomcom member to submit your feedback without > your name attached, if you would prefer. > > Again, your feedback is absolutely confidential, however delivered. > > Thanks very much from all of us for your time and for helping the > Nomcom to do the best possible job. Also enormous thanks to the > willing nominees. > > Names below. > > Allison for the Nomcom > > APP > Joe Hildebrand > Barry Leiba (incumbent) > Yoshiro Yoneya > > INT > Donald Eastlake > Wesley George > Brian Haberman (incumbent) > Ole Troan > > OPS > Benoit Claise (incumbent) > Linda Dunbar > Victor Kuarsingh > Bill Manning > > RAI > Ben Campbell > Alissa Cooper > Keith Drage > Dan Romascanu > > RTG > Loa Andersson > Alia Atlas > Deborah Brungard > Stewart Bryant (incumbent) > Donald Eastlake > Susan Hares > Keyur Patel > > SEC > Derek Atkins > Donald Eastlake > Jeff Hodges > Leif Johansson > Alexey Melnikov > Kathleen Moriarty > Eric Rescorla > > TSV > Martin Stiemerling (incumbent) > Dave Taht > > IAB > Bernard Aboba (incumbent) > Loa Andersson > Alias Atlas > Mary Barnes > Marc Blanchet (incumbent) > Ross Callon (incumbent) > Hago Dafalla > Linda Dunbar > Roni Even > Jim Gettys > Ted Hardie > Susan Hares > Joe Hildebrand > Sheng Jiang > Eliot Lear (incumbent) > Larry Masinter > S. Moonesamy > Kathleen Moriarty > Kaveh Ranjbar > Robert Sparks > Tina Tsou > Brian Trammell > > IAOC/IETF Trust > Glenn Deen > Tobias Gondrom > Chris Griffiths (incumbent) > John Levine > Tina Tsou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >