From nobody Thu Jul 3 08:07:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 557751A00E7; Wed, 2 Jul 2014 06:00:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MweuvzPB2Mb2; Wed, 2 Jul 2014 06:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B0D41A00AB; Wed, 2 Jul 2014 06:00:23 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AoAFALABtFPGmAcV/2dsb2JhbABagkYjJB8zWqsxDwEBAQYFkTqBORwBhz8BgQwWdYQFAQEDEhtMEgEVBw5WJgEEDg0aiCABDKAApXgXhXCHMYFQIBGCPQ9EJIEWBZZVhWCFboxTg0NsgUQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.01,587,1400040000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="63390369" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest-exch.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.21]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 02 Jul 2014 09:00:20 -0400 X-OutboundMail_SMTP: 1 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC01.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.11]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 02 Jul 2014 08:40:39 -0400 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC01.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.11]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 2 Jul 2014 15:00:18 +0200 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "gen-art@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 Thread-Index: Ac+V9YqRw3Q1VXAJQcaxdgarBYq69g== Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 13:00:17 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.45] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2AZFFEXMB04globa_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/VIYb6vFPuTZZfInLoZYJx0xPvg0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 03 Jul 2014 08:07:04 -0700 Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: [xmpp] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2014 13:00:26 -0000 --_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2AZFFEXMB04globa_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on Gen-AR= T, please see the FAQ at . Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments you m= ay receive. Document: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ Reviewer: Dan Romascanu Review Date: 7/2/2014 IETF LC End Date: 7/4/2014 IESG Telechat date: 7/10/2014 Summary: ready with minor issues Major issues: None Minor issues: 1. In order to accommodate the Websocket binding this document descri= bes several deviations from RFC6120. For example, in Section 3.3 it says: The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of constructing and using XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by adopting the message framing provided by WebSocket to delineate the stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level stream elements. I am wondering whether it would not be appropriate to reflect= this in the document header by adding Updates RFC6120 2. In Section 3.6.1: If the server wishes at any point to instruct the client to move to a different WebSocket endpoint (e.g. for load balancing purposes), the server MAY send a element and set the "see-other-uri" attribute to the URI of the new connection endpoint (which MAY be for a different transport method, such as BOSH (see [XEP-0124] and [XEP-0206]). I do not understand the usage of MAY in this paragraph. Is there an= other method to move to a different Web socket endpoint that is described h= ere or some other place? In not, why is not the first MAY at least a SHOULD= ? The second usage seems to describe a state of facts, so it needs not be c= apitalized at all. Nits/editorial comments: In Section 3.1 I believe that the example should be preceded by some text t= hat indicates that this is an example, such as: 'An example of a successful= handshake and start of session follows:' --_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2AZFFEXMB04globa_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft= . For background on Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at

 

<http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArt= faq>.

 

Please resolve these comments along with any othe= r Last Call comments you may receive.

 

Document: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-= ietf-xmpp-websocket/

Reviewer: Dan Romascanu

Review Date: 7/2/2014

IETF LC End Date: 7/4/2014

IESG Telechat date: 7/10/2014

 

Summary: ready with minor issues

 

Major issues:

 

None

 

Minor issues:

 

1.       In order to accommodate th= e Websocket binding this document describes several deviations from RFC6120= . For example, in Section 3.3 it says:

The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates fr= om the standard method of

   constructing and using XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] = by

   adopting the message framing provided by WebSocket to delin= eate the

   stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level= stream

   elements.

        &= nbsp;     I am wondering whether it would not be approp= riate to reflect this in the document header by adding Updates RFC6120=

 

2.       In Section 3.6.1:

 

   If the server wishes at any point to instruct the client to= move to a

   different WebSocket endpoint (e.g. for load balancing purpo= ses), the

   server MAY send a <close/> element and set the "= see-other-uri"

   attribute to the URI of the new connection endpoint (which = MAY be for

   a different transport method, such as BOSH (see [XEP-0124] = and

   [XEP-0206]).

 

        I do n= ot understand the usage of MAY in this paragraph. Is there another method t= o move to a different Web socket endpoint that is described here or some ot= her place? In not, why is not the first MAY at least a SHOULD? The second usage seems to describe a state of facts, so it needs not be capitalized a= t all.

 

 

Nits/editorial comments:

 

In Section 3.1 I believe that the example should = be preceded by some text that indicates that this is an example, such as: &= #8216;An example of a successful handshake and start of session follows:= 217;

 

 

--_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2AZFFEXMB04globa_-- From nobody Thu Jul 3 21:00:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D081B27AB for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 21:00:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CLiotAcnA0sQ for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 21:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-f171.google.com (mail-pd0-f171.google.com [209.85.192.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E3D81A0522 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 2014 21:00:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f171.google.com with SMTP id fp1so1283897pdb.16 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2014 21:00:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-type:subject:date:references:to :message-id:mime-version; bh=DgLYWWpgD94GAgpDbKUAgEqQ0513rP9IKCe5usW+D0A=; b=SI3t6Z8nk6ffs8W5ddQsXxXwIA/5Kbe9Ozbd6fo3o0J9tWBB5j1DAhomRH0+NZTRwS t6aZ8e4XaNE/IGcimtX+B5Xn5KOjhiPvn09IForJcmthdR+uHx4Z6vg4iCa14P9xUGYC 35pPz6a+X/8ndJeFjOPDVOrrlpOnBGBo411SjkoS8StiLjr8rnIqe4TPVdJuqdJ01HnG +fPoZEz0pw+zhVX3D4C0mZpanaB2dwpPOdNcYeTKeOTaBI6uR9v7p1PySB4qOhhYd3I9 etoOkFu89VsA2M8BOpqeTxVyVusCTxy3beyPwZdb7Y8m6vxVITuByecY8DLfhZPST9/m rZqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnJ9QiWGnxl7H+e59RW9dYeSo41C+4miCbwx9dgC8GF/+ANABKadxZQcKJjR3P+DBF2iyX7 X-Received: by 10.68.176.5 with SMTP id ce5mr77294052pbc.93.1404446401898; Thu, 03 Jul 2014 21:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.172] (68-186-83-170.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com. [68.186.83.170]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qm11sm6932546pdb.85.2014.07.03.21.00.00 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Jul 2014 21:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Lance Stout Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B50B9DD5-9A44-45FC-BFDE-FC9E5943ECA1"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 20:59:59 -0700 References: <46B2A4E0-236E-4B1C-8060-C8641E0CA012@andyet.net> To: XMPP Working Group Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/7Xf72svadsT2plCxIxxVx8_L3mc Subject: [xmpp] Fwd: Reviews of draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 04:00:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B50B9DD5-9A44-45FC-BFDE-FC9E5943ECA1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Closing in on the end of IETF LC for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07, so = replying to the feedback generated so far. We'll publish a -08 draft addressing these = issues, which have all been minor or editorial points. For the XMPP WG: Two proposed changes in normative requirements: 1. A server SHOULD use when ending a = session & pointing the client to a new endpoint. Was previously a MAY, but IETF LC = feedback pointed out that we don't have any other defined way to do this.=20 I don't feel too strongly on this point, so feedback welcome on if = this change is really needed. 2. If the server responds to the WebSocket handshake without including = 'xmpp' in its Sec-WebSocket-Protocol header, then the client MUST close the = connection. =20 Handling of this situation was previously undefined, but this feels = to be what we all expected was already the proper client action. On Jul 3, 2014, at 9:39 AM, = wrote: > Should =93when TLS is used, it MUST be enabled the WebSocket layer =94 = have read > =93when TLS is used, it MUST be enabled at the WebSocket layer =94 ? Yes, that is the intended wording. On Jul 2, 2014, at 6:00 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) = wrote: > 1. In order to accommodate the Websocket binding this document = describes several > deviations from RFC6120. For example, in Section 3.3 it says: The = WebSocket > XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of constructing = and using > XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by adopting the message framing = provided by > WebSocket to delineate the stream open and close headers, stanzas, and = other > top-level stream elements. I am wondering whether it would not be = appropriate to > reflect this in the document header by adding Updates RFC6120 This is a separate binding from the TCP binding defined in RFC6120, so I = don't think saying Updates RFC6120 would be accurate. Nothing in RFC6120 is = modified by this document. > 2. In Section 3.6.1: >=20 > If the server wishes at any point to instruct the client to move to = a > different WebSocket endpoint (e.g. for load balancing purposes), the = server > MAY send a element and set the "see-other-uri" attribute to = the > URI of the new connection endpoint (which MAY be for a different = transport > method, such as BOSH (see [XEP-0124] and [XEP-0206]). >=20 > I do not understand the usage of MAY in this paragraph. Is = there another > method to move to a different Web socket endpoint that is described = here or some > other place? In not, why is not the first MAY at least a SHOULD? The = second > usage seems to describe a state of facts, so it needs not be = capitalized at all. That is the only method, so I agree that can be a SHOULD, and also agree = on the second point. > In Section 3.1 I believe that the example should be preceded by some = text > that indicates that this is an example, such as: =91An example of a = successful > handshake and start of session follows:=92 +1, will add that. On Jun 25, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > - Sec 1: The term 'raw socket' can be potentially mis-understood, = perhaps simply > remove 'over row sockets' completely (I think the message of the = sentence > remains intact without these words). +1 will change > - Sec 3.1: The text says that both client and server MUST have |xmpp| = in the > list of protocols for the |Sec-WebSocket-Protocol| header. The text = does not > detail what happens if this is not the case. Is there be a defined = behavior if > this protocol negotiation fails? Good catch, RFC6455 doesn't describe what to do in that case, so we'll = need to address it. If the server does not reply with 'xmpp' in the Sec-WebSocket-Protocol = handshake reply, then the client MUST close the connection. > - Sec 3.6.1: There is a closing parenthesis missing at the end of the = first > paragraph. Noted, will fix. - Lance --Apple-Mail=_B50B9DD5-9A44-45FC-BFDE-FC9E5943ECA1 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIM5jCCBjQw ggQcoAMCAQICASAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0 Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNpZ25pbmcxKTAn BgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA3MTAyNDIxMDI1NVoX DTE3MTAyNDIxMDI1NVowgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSsw KQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWduaW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFy dENvbSBDbGFzcyAyIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENsaWVudCBDQTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcN AQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBAMsohUWcASz7GfKrpTOMKqANy9BV7V0igWdGxA8IU77L3aTxErQ+ fcxtDYZ36Z6GH0YFn7fq5RADteP0AYzrCA+EQTfi8q1+kA3m0nwtwXG94M5sIqsvs7lRP1aycBke /s5g9hJHryZ2acScnzczjBCAo7X1v5G3yw8MDP2m2RCye0KfgZ4nODerZJVzhAlOD9YejvAXZqHk 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--Apple-Mail=_B50B9DD5-9A44-45FC-BFDE-FC9E5943ECA1-- From nobody Fri Jul 4 11:02:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E53141B2B47 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:02:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VpKrThxwFgdp for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:02:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D514C1B2B35 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:02:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5408; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1404496958; x=1405706558; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tY6gOWstEUQ+cwq0Dy7ep150OW5iy15NFx8vpHpfVYg=; b=dc4tOnEWZyDoLOLAuKfgJ0HJI3PUu9TNUVfKj7PxT0KiK/H5wsQu/p6D wzkWlkPDwytD43M29HYSyVYJe2J8d+cw/6DUygPh7e1lRgw9wg0Zj+iDX MVS7ItVfKnmqmoRz3vve+IOEREkTn72t4g5Wc3fxmuHyJe728USdSYXb6 w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhcMAPvqtlOtJV2P/2dsb2JhbABagw5SWqtJAQEBAQEBBQFuAZIohzUKAYELFnWEAwEBAQMBAQEBawoRCxAICRYPCQMCAQIBDwYwBgEMBgIBAYgqAwkIDcNxDYZSF4VwhwqBdTqEQwWKFzqMC4IaggCHD4ZphhSDYoIR X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,602,1400025600"; d="scan'208";a="337831064" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Jul 2014 18:02:37 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s64I2at0019688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 4 Jul 2014 18:02:36 GMT Received: from [10.89.9.202] (10.89.9.202) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (173.37.183.79) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.123.3; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 13:02:36 -0500 Message-ID: <53B6EC3C.2090806@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 12:02:36 -0600 From: Matt Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lance Stout , XMPP Working Group References: <46B2A4E0-236E-4B1C-8060-C8641E0CA012@andyet.net> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.89.9.202] Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/uq59w670XyQQikRzjK4fVI28RkY Subject: Re: [xmpp] Fwd: Reviews of draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 18:02:47 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 7/3/14, 9:59 PM, Lance Stout wrote: > Closing in on the end of IETF LC for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07, > so replying to the feedback generated so far. We'll publish a -08 > draft addressing these issues, which have all been minor or > editorial points. > > > For the XMPP WG: Two proposed changes in normative requirements: > > 1. A server SHOULD use when ending a > session & pointing the client to a new endpoint. Was previously a > MAY, but IETF LC feedback pointed out that we don't have any other > defined way to do this. > > I don't feel too strongly on this point, so feedback welcome on if > this change is really needed. > I agree with this change. Making the 'see-other-uri' behavior a SHOULD I think will lead to more interoperable software; people will be much more inclined to implement it. > > 2. If the server responds to the WebSocket handshake without > including 'xmpp' in its Sec-WebSocket-Protocol header, then the > client MUST close the connection. > > Handling of this situation was previously undefined, but this feels > to be what we all expected was already the proper client action. > This makes sense to me. - -- - - m&m Matt Miller < mamille2@cisco.com > Cisco Systems, Inc. > > On Jul 3, 2014, at 9:39 AM, > wrote: > >> Should ?when TLS is used, it MUST be enabled the WebSocket layer >> ? have read ?when TLS is used, it MUST be enabled at the >> WebSocket layer ? ? > > > Yes, that is the intended wording. > > > > > On Jul 2, 2014, at 6:00 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > wrote: > >> 1. In order to accommodate the Websocket binding this document >> describes several deviations from RFC6120. For example, in >> Section 3.3 it says: The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates >> from the standard method of constructing and using XML streams as >> defined in [RFC6120] by adopting the message framing provided by >> WebSocket to delineate the stream open and close headers, >> stanzas, and other top-level stream elements. I am wondering >> whether it would not be appropriate to reflect this in the >> document header by adding Updates RFC6120 > > > This is a separate binding from the TCP binding defined in RFC6120, > so I don't think saying Updates RFC6120 would be accurate. Nothing > in RFC6120 is modified by this document. > > >> 2. In Section 3.6.1: >> >> If the server wishes at any point to instruct the client to move >> to a different WebSocket endpoint (e.g. for load balancing >> purposes), the server MAY send a element and set the >> "see-other-uri" attribute to the URI of the new connection >> endpoint (which MAY be for a different transport method, such as >> BOSH (see [XEP-0124] and [XEP-0206]). >> >> I do not understand the usage of MAY in this paragraph. Is there >> another method to move to a different Web socket endpoint that is >> described here or some other place? In not, why is not the first >> MAY at least a SHOULD? The second usage seems to describe a state >> of facts, so it needs not be capitalized at all. > > That is the only method, so I agree that can be a SHOULD, and also > agree on the second point. > > >> In Section 3.1 I believe that the example should be preceded by >> some text that indicates that this is an example, such as: ?An >> example of a successful handshake and start of session follows:? > > +1, will add that. > > > > > > On Jun 25, 2014, at 11:55 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: > >> - Sec 1: The term 'raw socket' can be potentially mis-understood, >> perhaps simply remove 'over row sockets' completely (I think the >> message of the sentence remains intact without these words). > > +1 will change > >> - Sec 3.1: The text says that both client and server MUST have >> |xmpp| in the list of protocols for the |Sec-WebSocket-Protocol| >> header. The text does not detail what happens if this is not the >> case. Is there be a defined behavior if this protocol negotiation >> fails? > > Good catch, RFC6455 doesn't describe what to do in that case, so > we'll need to address it. > > If the server does not reply with 'xmpp' in the > Sec-WebSocket-Protocol handshake reply, then the client MUST close > the connection. > > >> - Sec 3.6.1: There is a closing parenthesis missing at the end of >> the first paragraph. > > Noted, will fix. > > > > > - Lance > > > > > > _______________________________________________ xmpp mailing list > xmpp@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xmpp > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTtuw8AAoJEDWi+S0W7cO10WoH/jHlU66Y5B5AVfJzza/ey8jb LFcYqb4hDYQm5civ+yZ3MGwRoaHDl1QreQYpF1eh4xEbo0T2heAxXReUKbIh2xvs Wl7vXedVz0YLPS/s1i45XoMStFBU7LZ00Y9Vm5+FUHMppvjWVYrdimUNa9KKGXCo wTRDY/it1uxlkVWgtecMh6bMSR722UTQWu71pcdvhsWIk40gU6vNdh56FU/ew2FM WmRtrTHJYHqPoFvE86GAgSKNF8S42Dz/5DbPAsrZUp9iUbo0ocgLrsqA9VIqLqkm /MOQy19Cce5Y0Q2G5tC8+DhAXORM6Fi1+NgXWSvgMHyOadNGLbRywT7GN49X6xo= =p4NY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Fri Jul 4 11:51:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53481B2DC0 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:51:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.378 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TtRydPVf3NcX for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x231.google.com (mail-oa0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C77D1B2D5E for ; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id i7so2105745oag.22 for ; Fri, 04 Jul 2014 11:51:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=uzY6Y6H56LxGIAlCLCGHUEXrx0FtT8mD/oI0W/aYJxw=; b=clTxC8E5EeFb4VTIvuFvZ+lN2RNhnuWXrk5J3LcLlVFKVlaCYo6kUWTCpJPo+L7/Bm HsRnxlkbkugCD8iDFD4VY8mvskE12PFVMgpRpKFObb+ahLekE0onGNRGOQOq9NAIYnzA wh0sQeRmy/9JHY606VHjBiz8v+/mgZSq27dEw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=uzY6Y6H56LxGIAlCLCGHUEXrx0FtT8mD/oI0W/aYJxw=; b=ZW2t+TDHPuj24NsfJKGOSBAEgme4chbU09Vpw5g1YS/8ulVPqvFTM6+2AakQo6l9Z/ lUeusOim63/rA6bzCRmmXQgiWcwAKZfE1kipEFiDETWNt6DgBVNQWpsxT1EMDAJS0v0+ kbrk25CX/pXkVdtXBqh/92TTnTOXq2yTgyBtfDyFrOH3Vr7uTcwCSZ3ZRTSELkdae3JT HbNCdMvtV/uvPkawemUk2dXv+H7AcstKIl3Wv7WSnx+lPATfPlq205A5r2TFs3OaOxJI CCTWpnYcKkkt35uBL5EufUWrcY7i3kW+l6EHgzsat3Ub1jY4JGp6J6nrj+NnQ2NKFkQ5 gY5A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlzJDaAB+4kGGy9bPT3IileGuLJh9jiE5jk2ttPVEXyDQqDp39tJrAJKSPogBaUAE6vXRMX MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.59.4 with SMTP id v4mr14194721oeq.63.1404499895495; Fri, 04 Jul 2014 11:51:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.134.145 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:51:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53B6EC3C.2090806@cisco.com> References: <46B2A4E0-236E-4B1C-8060-C8641E0CA012@andyet.net> <53B6EC3C.2090806@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 19:51:35 +0100 Message-ID: From: Dave Cridland To: Matt Miller Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0129458c5bc90904fd629d6f Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/axz-quDqKWVmIvEM4nKis7e3B0o Cc: XMPP Working Group Subject: Re: [xmpp] Fwd: Reviews of draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2014 18:51:38 -0000 --089e0129458c5bc90904fd629d6f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 4 July 2014 19:02, Matt Miller wrote: > On 7/3/14, 9:59 PM, Lance Stout wrote: > > 1. A server SHOULD use when ending a > > session & pointing the client to a new endpoint. Was previously a > > MAY, but IETF LC feedback pointed out that we don't have any other > > defined way to do this. > > > > I don't feel too strongly on this point, so feedback welcome on if > > this change is really needed. > > > > I agree with this change. Making the 'see-other-uri' behavior a > SHOULD I think will lead to more interoperable software; people will > be much more inclined to implement it. > > I'm not entirely sure that 2119 language makes sense here for the server. If a server wishes to tell a client to switch websocket endpoint, then this is the way to do it. If it doesn't do it this way, then it can't tell the client. There's no "SHOULD" or "MAY" or "MUST" about this, because there's no alternative. The interesting question is what clients are expected to do here - clients MUST reconnnect to the other URI? clients MAY? clients SHOULD? There's no description of the clients' behaviour here at all. The other question that lurks around my head is the interaction with XEP-0198 resumption here. Dave. --089e0129458c5bc90904fd629d6f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 4= July 2014 19:02, Matt Miller <mamille2@cisco.com> wrote:
On 7/3/14, 9:59 PM, Lance Stout wrote:
> 1. A server = SHOULD use <close see-other-uri=3D"..." /> when ending a > session & pointing the client to a new endpoint. Was previously a<= br> > MAY, but IETF LC feedback pointed out that we don't have any other=
> defined way to do this.
>
> I don't feel too strongly on this point, so feedback welcome on if=
> this change is really needed.
>

I agree with this change. =C2=A0Making the 'see-other-uri' be= havior a
SHOULD I think will lead to more interoperable software; people will
be much more inclined to implement it.


I'm not enti= rely sure that 2119 language makes sense here for the server.
If a server wishes to tell a client to switch websocket endpoin= t, then this is the way to do it. If it doesn't do it this way, then it= can't tell the client. There's no "SHOULD" or "MAY&= quot; or "MUST" about this, because there's no alternative.

The interesting question is what clients are expected t= o do here - clients MUST reconnnect to the other URI? clients MAY? clients = SHOULD? There's no description of the clients' behaviour here at al= l.

The other question that lurks around my head is the int= eraction with XEP-0198 resumption here.

Dave.
--089e0129458c5bc90904fd629d6f-- From nobody Mon Jul 7 21:58:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 087F81B2A25; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 21:58:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.955 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.955 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bV-6nPrZIp9G; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 21:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:14b8:400::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7EAC1A0ADC; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 21:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5792CCF9; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 07:58:02 +0300 (EEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S8_JEy_-6UUJ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 07:57:58 +0300 (EEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3F52CC48; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 07:57:57 +0300 (EEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_478E5806-7C00-4BA7-A1B6-F59063F83D34"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 00:57:55 -0400 Message-Id: <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/oCfZYqDkzkyPs5fj2OaBnlTSNMQ Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 04:58:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_478E5806-7C00-4BA7-A1B6-F59063F83D34 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Thanks for the review, Dan. I would like to see some thoughts from the editors regarding the two = points that you raised. Jari On 02 Jul 2014, at 09:00, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) = wrote: > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on = Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at > =20 > . > =20 > Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments = you may receive. > =20 > Document: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ > Reviewer: Dan Romascanu > Review Date: 7/2/2014 > IETF LC End Date: 7/4/2014 > IESG Telechat date: 7/10/2014 > =20 > Summary: ready with minor issues > =20 > Major issues: > =20 > None > =20 > Minor issues: > =20 > 1. In order to accommodate the Websocket binding this document = describes several deviations from RFC6120. For example, in Section 3.3 = it says: > The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of > constructing and using XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by > adopting the message framing provided by WebSocket to delineate the > stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level stream > elements. > I am wondering whether it would not be appropriate to = reflect this in the document header by adding Updates RFC6120 > =20 > 2. In Section 3.6.1: > =20 > If the server wishes at any point to instruct the client to move to = a > different WebSocket endpoint (e.g. for load balancing purposes), = the > server MAY send a element and set the "see-other-uri" > attribute to the URI of the new connection endpoint (which MAY be = for > a different transport method, such as BOSH (see [XEP-0124] and > [XEP-0206]). > =20 > I do not understand the usage of MAY in this paragraph. Is = there another method to move to a different Web socket endpoint that is = described here or some other place? In not, why is not the first MAY at = least a SHOULD? The second usage seems to describe a state of facts, so = it needs not be capitalized at all. > =20 > =20 > Nits/editorial comments: > =20 > In Section 3.1 I believe that the example should be preceded by some = text that indicates that this is an example, such as: =91An example of a = successful handshake and start of session follows:=92 > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art --Apple-Mail=_478E5806-7C00-4BA7-A1B6-F59063F83D34 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTu3pTAAoJEM80gCTQU46qYgYQALOc9StuYVo23mTgVObNOH2g PimO52flTcTnz4EEXG7q2GikzHkJ/9YJVOuP7Zr/SwhtMW6vNgfss/51xhVD6cm1 wAd4pey1Y50Efl3ylt0MT5RWugbjz9XZDd1D6pI1KO5ZhR/ZZ+l/fcTfwvMZT5qk hxNLYyk4lYRvMTq6LH1RfzhxBmF3X3WIue9570OCJl9J72Njvid5WR+XCgINlDPq T/rABTwBg07r9swQRan8ZkTfNnK84h/OdfiCTt9vsBpOKMdPp3zV3Q984FPMKhNf WUXSvQyLQ3jC4GuGUWBN1Nn+DIY9OP/05A/UFxNZMd8QkeWDvwGJes9O8kpmRXiK 8lAsivIW4z2ychE0D1lwADokPtJZ/gJ0u4kVQ65oZaq64GRJPqwiKUWrWvOUHXJG /D8t9F7dtxTp0BNosdKmPgGoAfl6SbX7m7iUTdhVNkbKz8nM5u1oUXmFhIjfg49X IFgPeshYVPI2IDDxTOyf92iU7z+yHsR714fJqskSKdGK+jFDgixZuiw07SW+8LYF m07qghEFCN0KybJgHajcNFnX3CU1guN7Wubi0RBJ2olzpEzkj9jMcOetxPfN/Jjx 4gAJNCkZSQK+qvE2G/OmufYkEcllWZt6LbvUdzMKJY1jt9hv5JcuqludR4GhS5ue h4vml6r5l4YUanhMW4JO =b5pO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_478E5806-7C00-4BA7-A1B6-F59063F83D34-- From nobody Mon Jul 7 23:51:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5BA1B2A7F; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 23:51:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7LXzGt5mKD72; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 23:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com (mail-pa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 177561B2A7C; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 23:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id et14so6804264pad.35 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 23:51:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=iMrNdtC2pvLNUMzQ3rqk6tcHLFXFgJ/KOq7youYTCjk=; b=pN3nhQyEqgeOpfkMLGXYoPJJ/s1TV1NZoHflQJ4/kxUBXBPTu4EVqz2vD7PZr1w73n Z5v+yE7B8gRcVMsEHPtJOVfdVr649uW26Q4ghstx0cPRPz26QV6nypU0gIHOMzieG3MZ lidKyKQ3ue+SGpBxsYwqLIep8w84kwFp19Mw5XiCKsqN8cQ5MbV/4KgmxgTmfAzlWTL6 SphyVcSG2E3IZzVX2JkFti/UfYXgKpSCIq+jyXmHf79y9M4IJ7CKYpsc2OolB/bS7o5H +kOgl1/YV7GNu0iYcf/VOEZdaD3Uyi8J1stByHxd4GoOW2+1bmKtKezeXa3ma0p8lAzd ic9Q== X-Received: by 10.68.103.165 with SMTP id fx5mr7810534pbb.118.1404802264655; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 23:51:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.172] (68-186-83-170.dhcp.knwc.wa.charter.com. [68.186.83.170]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pq3sm54663245pbb.57.2014.07.07.23.51.03 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Jul 2014 23:51:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_296B2C4B-DAAA-46F7-9B5C-E3D5DDC8A7D6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) From: Lance Stout In-Reply-To: <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 23:51:01 -0700 Message-Id: <42688FF4-DA40-40AA-B99E-247EA635AA00@gmail.com> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> To: Jari Arkko X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/4K6hqJxxwrt2P7vXT2UFn6k9FqQ Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , XMPP Working Group Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 06:51:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_296B2C4B-DAAA-46F7-9B5C-E3D5DDC8A7D6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > I would like to see some thoughts from the editors regarding the two = points that you raised. Hrm, did my earlier response on the 3rd not make it through moderation = to the gen-art list? > 1. In order to accommodate the Websocket binding this document = describes several > deviations from RFC6120. For example, in Section 3.3 it says: The = WebSocket > XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of constructing = and using > XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by adopting the message framing = provided by > WebSocket to delineate the stream open and close headers, stanzas, and = other > top-level stream elements. I am wondering whether it would not be = appropriate to > reflect this in the document header by adding Updates RFC6120 This is creating a new binding, separate from the TCP binding defined in = RFC6120. While this document introduces framing (thus deviating from RFC6120) it does = not actually modify anything in RFC6120.=20 > 2. In Section 3.6.1: >=20 > If the server wishes at any point to instruct the client to move to = a > different WebSocket endpoint (e.g. for load balancing purposes), the = server > MAY send a element and set the "see-other-uri" attribute to = the > URI of the new connection endpoint (which MAY be for a different = transport > method, such as BOSH (see [XEP-0124] and [XEP-0206]). >=20 > I do not understand the usage of MAY in this paragraph. Is = there another > method to move to a different Web socket endpoint that is described = here or some > other place? In not, why is not the first MAY at least a SHOULD? The = second > usage seems to describe a state of facts, so it needs not be = capitalized at all. That is the only method, so I agree that can be a SHOULD, and also agree = on the second point. After proposing changing this to SHOULD to the WG, some members have = questioned if=20 2119 language is even needed here at all, as there is no alternative way = to do this. =97 Lance --Apple-Mail=_296B2C4B-DAAA-46F7-9B5C-E3D5DDC8A7D6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTu5TVAAoJEEUjsLfW9hYOxZMP+gJmXik3Ve28P7JyxhVQHU3N NE0Tlo84T8E9/8P9oSnfpXxW0IWoRy/ii7gb1KaYox8/QSaRTCoAes8DfEJliTMl rM66WO6CvPt3XycN3UIqQcy6uPE0wSgwoBKon40gjxL8wyOapufLsmoXlEhZQZUy XPvvcveTBqSrZUQCrhY5DTcmkUIFmOp3htdUDSOcMRS6T/2v5zlrrd5ZdnVyS7vC ZbXeB9SEffQO19WDrOPaK80LT0ZkmsNsGBLCxeJj7dEn3XEnlBKNECXL5dqS+aj6 sNNPsN3WGf2J5R0NmS4xKymScxTTLd2+acXh+XmX0rhRzdoU3CjIGfEj9Hscq/pA pwPqiv1IXMkeO5Eh1w1Lumu9Rw29Pa4l93lB9r5bL1u7Vg8sQLT7vnMjFvYhTIDn WY991t6dGULCv7GrCGpt7rMuXi42pKWtFj0qbJrLqFpTpvd/1EiB/mPReOn/Mb48 V89fDpj5NCWrsO7HM5MQraTSnRhHkjkzfuoqOFeTLg7O2YRGwckfUU/r9Cy1im4/ o1I9Tw4XafeD1fbW6f/GNh2x1n0AYR4bt+ny3OvKKL9ctTwW8j53y0XKW39AvXBZ RxdaH0cyxZ/rrhGaVtKZWohQq+n3SQA3vs78ApqoX7k9L9yp4EWXdDFoavJs9But edhxTFjNEzk5R+p/LMEd =GgHZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_296B2C4B-DAAA-46F7-9B5C-E3D5DDC8A7D6-- From nobody Tue Jul 8 01:46:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA921B2AB4; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 01:46:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.553 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.553 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2GI-y8p4Txbn; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 01:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F451B2A58; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 01:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aither.local (unknown [24.8.184.175]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B9E0940332; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 02:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <53BBAFDD.70407@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 02:46:21 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lance Stout , Jari Arkko References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <42688FF4-DA40-40AA-B99E-247EA635AA00@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <42688FF4-DA40-40AA-B99E-247EA635AA00@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/FN5F7CHgIG-XA9WxlIf9GQxr_90 Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , XMPP Working Group Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:46:26 -0000 On 7/8/14, 12:51 AM, Lance Stout wrote: >> I would like to see some thoughts from the editors regarding the two points that you raised. > > Hrm, did my earlier response on the 3rd not make it through moderation to the gen-art list? > > > >> 1. In order to accommodate the Websocket binding this document describes several >> deviations from RFC6120. For example, in Section 3.3 it says: The WebSocket >> XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of constructing and using >> XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by adopting the message framing provided by >> WebSocket to delineate the stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other >> top-level stream elements. I am wondering whether it would not be appropriate to >> reflect this in the document header by adding Updates RFC6120 > > This is creating a new binding, separate from the TCP binding defined in RFC6120. While > this document introduces framing (thus deviating from RFC6120) it does not actually > modify anything in RFC6120. That seems accurate to me (also with my RFC6120-author hat on). >> 2. In Section 3.6.1: >> >> If the server wishes at any point to instruct the client to move to a >> different WebSocket endpoint (e.g. for load balancing purposes), the server >> MAY send a element and set the "see-other-uri" attribute to the >> URI of the new connection endpoint (which MAY be for a different transport >> method, such as BOSH (see [XEP-0124] and [XEP-0206]). >> >> I do not understand the usage of MAY in this paragraph. Is there another >> method to move to a different Web socket endpoint that is described here or some >> other place? In not, why is not the first MAY at least a SHOULD? The second >> usage seems to describe a state of facts, so it needs not be capitalized at all. > > That is the only method, so I agree that can be a SHOULD, and also agree on the > second point. > > After proposing changing this to SHOULD to the WG, some members have questioned if > 2119 language is even needed here at all, as there is no alternative way to do this. Right. I might change "the server MAY send a element and set..." to, simply, "the server sends a element and sets..." since, as you say, this is just how it's done. (These conditionally normative statements are always a bit confusing - "if X then MUST Y" and such.) Peter From nobody Tue Jul 8 07:25:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7121B27BE; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 02:07:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RgulOSUmvTUu; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 02:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8BDE1B27A3; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 02:07:00 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: An4FAEW0u1OHCzIm/2dsb2JhbABZgmokUlqraAEBAQEBAQaSYxyHRAGBFxZ1hAMBAQEBAwEBAQ8oNAsMBAIBCA0EAwEBAQEKFAkHJwsUCQgCBA4FCAEZiCABDKUNpAYXhXCHMYEwAQEeMQIFBoMngRYFllyFYoVwjFSDQ2yBCzk X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,624,1400040000"; d="scan'208";a="75100424" Received: from unknown (HELO p-us1-erheast-smtpauth.us1.avaya.com) ([135.11.50.38]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 08 Jul 2014 05:06:35 -0400 X-OutboundMail_SMTP: 1 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC02.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.12]) by p-us1-erheast-out.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 08 Jul 2014 05:06:35 -0400 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC02.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.12]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 11:06:34 +0200 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Jari Arkko Thread-Topic: [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 Thread-Index: AQHPmmk0VMwaQWD3002cTC8XVq7iEJuV4YTw Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 09:06:34 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/NHaA8uL-it4wJfCZfYURxw93QrM X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:25:37 -0700 Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:07:10 -0000 Hi Jari, The authors actually responded - see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/g= en-art/current/msg10306.html.=20 They pushed back on my #1 - I am still not convinced by their argument (as = the protocol does change by adding a different mapping) but I would not blo= ck the document for this purpose.=20 The proposed changes for the rest are fine.=20 Regards, Dan =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 7:58 AM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Cc: gen-art@ietf.org; draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org; > xmpp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 >=20 > Thanks for the review, Dan. >=20 > I would like to see some thoughts from the editors regarding the two poin= ts > that you raised. >=20 > Jari >=20 > On 02 Jul 2014, at 09:00, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > wrote: >=20 > > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on Ge= n- > ART, please see the FAQ at > > > > . > > > > Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments > you may receive. > > > > Document: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ > > Reviewer: Dan Romascanu > > Review Date: 7/2/2014 > > IETF LC End Date: 7/4/2014 > > IESG Telechat date: 7/10/2014 > > > > Summary: ready with minor issues > > > > Major issues: > > > > None > > > > Minor issues: > > > > 1. In order to accommodate the Websocket binding this document > describes several deviations from RFC6120. For example, in Section 3.3 it > says: > > The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of > > constructing and using XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by > > adopting the message framing provided by WebSocket to delineate the > > stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level stream > > elements. > > I am wondering whether it would not be appropriate to ref= lect this > in the document header by adding Updates RFC6120 > > > > 2. In Section 3.6.1: > > > > If the server wishes at any point to instruct the client to move to = a > > different WebSocket endpoint (e.g. for load balancing purposes), the > > server MAY send a element and set the "see-other-uri" > > attribute to the URI of the new connection endpoint (which MAY be fo= r > > a different transport method, such as BOSH (see [XEP-0124] and > > [XEP-0206]). > > > > I do not understand the usage of MAY in this paragraph. Is ther= e > another method to move to a different Web socket endpoint that is > described here or some other place? In not, why is not the first MAY at l= east > a SHOULD? The second usage seems to describe a state of facts, so it need= s > not be capitalized at all. > > > > > > Nits/editorial comments: > > > > In Section 3.1 I believe that the example should be preceded by some te= xt > that indicates that this is an example, such as: 'An example of a success= ful > handshake and start of session follows:' > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Gen-art mailing list > > Gen-art@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Tue Jul 8 08:22:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECA61B2B17; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 08:22:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.553 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.553 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m2J5t4JiSB_0; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13BCA1B2B16; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 08:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aither.local (unknown [24.8.184.175]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9D35440E38; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 09:22:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <53BC0CC1.6020409@stpeter.im> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:22:41 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , Jari Arkko References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/w4KmzWJ8NxTmd9jmtSQaSgDuRUc Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 15:22:54 -0000 Hi Dan, As the document shepherd for this spec and the author of RFC 6120, I have one comment below. On 7/8/14, 3:06 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > Hi Jari, > > The authors actually responded - see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gen-art/current/msg10306.html. > > They pushed back on my #1 - I am still not convinced by their argument (as the protocol does change by adding a different mapping) but I would not block the document for this purpose. > The proposed changes for the rest are fine. Even at the time of RFC 3920 (precursor to RFC 6120), we had one other binding, namely the HTTP binding long-polling binding ("BOSH") defined at http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0124.html - this is why in RFC 3920 we explicitly stated that the spec defined only the TCP binding: ### 4.2. Binding to TCP Although there is no necessary coupling of an XML stream to a [TCP] connection (e.g., two entities could connect to each other via another mechanism such as polling over [HTTP]), this specification defines a binding of XMPP to TCP only. In the context of client-to-server communications, a server MUST allow a client to share a single TCP connection for XML stanzas sent from client to server and from server to client. In the context of server-to-server communications, a server MUST use one TCP connection for XML stanzas sent from the server to the peer and another TCP connection (initiated by the peer) for stanzas from the peer to the server, for a total of two TCP connections. ### We repeated this qualification in RFC 6120: ### 3. TCP Binding 3.1. Scope As XMPP is defined in this specification, an initiating entity (client or server) MUST open a Transmission Control Protocol [TCP] connection to the receiving entity (server) before it negotiates XML streams with the receiving entity. The parties then maintain that TCP connection for as long as the XML streams are in use. The rules specified in the following sections apply to the TCP binding. Informational Note: There is no necessary coupling of XML streams to TCP, and other transports are possible. For example, two entities could connect to each other by means of [HTTP] as specified in [XEP-0124] and [XEP-0206]. However, this specification defines only a binding of XMPP to TCP. ### The WebSocket binding specified in this I-D is intended to eventually replace BOSH for reasons explained in RFC 6202. In my opinion, the point of layering via bindings is to not modify or update one binding by defining another binding. Thus I continue to be of the opinion that the WebSocket binding does not update RFC 6120. Peter > > Regards, > > Dan > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jari Arkko [mailto:jari.arkko@piuha.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 7:58 AM >> To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) >> Cc: gen-art@ietf.org; draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org; >> xmpp@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 >> >> Thanks for the review, Dan. >> >> I would like to see some thoughts from the editors regarding the two points >> that you raised. >> >> Jari >> >> On 02 Jul 2014, at 09:00, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) >> wrote: >> >>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on Gen- >> ART, please see the FAQ at >>> >>> . >>> >>> Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments >> you may receive. >>> >>> Document: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ >>> Reviewer: Dan Romascanu >>> Review Date: 7/2/2014 >>> IETF LC End Date: 7/4/2014 >>> IESG Telechat date: 7/10/2014 >>> >>> Summary: ready with minor issues >>> >>> Major issues: >>> >>> None >>> >>> Minor issues: >>> >>> 1. In order to accommodate the Websocket binding this document >> describes several deviations from RFC6120. For example, in Section 3.3 it >> says: >>> The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of >>> constructing and using XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by >>> adopting the message framing provided by WebSocket to delineate the >>> stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level stream >>> elements. >>> I am wondering whether it would not be appropriate to reflect this >> in the document header by adding Updates RFC6120 >>> >>> 2. In Section 3.6.1: >>> >>> If the server wishes at any point to instruct the client to move to a >>> different WebSocket endpoint (e.g. for load balancing purposes), the >>> server MAY send a element and set the "see-other-uri" >>> attribute to the URI of the new connection endpoint (which MAY be for >>> a different transport method, such as BOSH (see [XEP-0124] and >>> [XEP-0206]). >>> >>> I do not understand the usage of MAY in this paragraph. Is there >> another method to move to a different Web socket endpoint that is >> described here or some other place? In not, why is not the first MAY at least >> a SHOULD? The second usage seems to describe a state of facts, so it needs >> not be capitalized at all. >>> >>> >>> Nits/editorial comments: >>> >>> In Section 3.1 I believe that the example should be preceded by some text >> that indicates that this is an example, such as: 'An example of a successful >> handshake and start of session follows:' >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gen-art mailing list >>> Gen-art@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art > > _______________________________________________ > xmpp mailing list > xmpp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xmpp > From nobody Tue Jul 8 08:30:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD401B2B18 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 08:30:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.378 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fP5fz5OgNXPy for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 08:30:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x22f.google.com (mail-oa0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DF4F1B2B1A for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 08:30:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id n16so6577197oag.6 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:30:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Zn1qEgnSxc04mu1NE/oEPpDUmDADe9w6pQtJBfqANzk=; b=DNZ9w5Obq6KqDvsnk6yUZxqvbo326OUiImJpNKQYWoPPEs9k13HkBF4Msf7D98uCPe sfycUiEMcBPYlruNQlJ0sqAlcquGlCYMVyJkjJTZXldkgUSGXDDY/tR+y21VbNlOv/bL fzCaIEeymBiaut2Wz2gO9dROdGhV+Y8+jqu4I= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Zn1qEgnSxc04mu1NE/oEPpDUmDADe9w6pQtJBfqANzk=; b=VOnevem9lHI0edBmI2uvcJwz33KzWJu3nJ906vnvZFhqjrOjANDG9Aga1WokXZoaY4 6OG48EVJV3XBbwMavW1l/SLyCoRWD/pZRET2/VD93YwasUqJgOKTlp3b9SppmBExEI6R qVrsJOjlIbBFXFZB0cedB1hyxR92joh5gqlerUC6Lh/fIgATAIxWCLQsYVylvDAA3mx+ DB5h2ifWgEsobNKrcY3zMs8fDX7uCr8MyYCgSF+EXeBWmWX31Cx0q0lBKxiBUacNiU7/ 1CwAy/+j/Uw22fr7mg68db1nxdF0xXuae98+UAznN8vBUO5a046ai2VJqTVD37kQKJ+p Gtgg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn68LsAdqnddgQSD8TvRolRfQlUD6ErMHOPBqXPbr2loriyEJfbiRBb+0uqAqTeF23Ur3A0 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.71.71 with SMTP id s7mr17249050obu.71.1404833423934; Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.134.145 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 08:30:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 16:30:23 +0100 Message-ID: From: Dave Cridland To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1f22a33dd8d04fdb0450e Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/sb12bTpC354b70Y9ukmT13nlNLI Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Jari Arkko , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 15:30:26 -0000 --e89a8fb1f22a33dd8d04fdb0450e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 8 July 2014 10:06, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > Hi Jari, > > The authors actually responded - see > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/gen-art/current/msg10306.html. > > They pushed back on my #1 - I am still not convinced by their argument (as > the protocol does change by adding a different mapping) but I would not > block the document for this purpose. > The proposed changes for the rest are fine. > I genuinely don't understand why adding an additional binding should require an Updates. I understand "Updates" to be an indicator that implementors of (in this case) RFC 6120 would need to read this document as well, and I don't believe that to be the case. In particular, implementors of RFC 6120 don't need to care about this document unless they *also* want to do XMPP over Websockets, in the same way that implementors of Websockets don't need to care about this document unless they *also* want to send XMPP over them. Of course, readers of this document are required to read both RFC 6120 and the Websockets spec, but that's what Normative References are for. Dave. --e89a8fb1f22a33dd8d04fdb0450e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 8= July 2014 10:06, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com>= wrote:
Hi Jari,

The authors actually responded - see http://www.ietf.= org/mail-archive/web/gen-art/current/msg10306.html.

They pushed back on my #1 - I am still not convinced by their argument (as = the protocol does change by adding a different mapping) but I would not blo= ck the document for this purpose.
The proposed changes for the rest are fine.

=
I genuinely don't understand why adding an additional binding shou= ld require an Updates.

I understand "Updates&= quot; to be an indicator that implementors of (in this case) RFC 6120 would= need to read this document as well, and I don't believe that to be the= case.

In particular, implementors of RFC 6120 don't need = to care about this document unless they *also* want to do XMPP over Websock= ets, in the same way that implementors of Websockets don't need to care= about this document unless they *also* want to send XMPP over them.

Of course, readers of this document are required to rea= d both RFC 6120 and the Websockets spec, but that's what Normative Refe= rences are for.

Dave.
--e89a8fb1f22a33dd8d04fdb0450e-- From nobody Tue Jul 8 09:21:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C1EC1B2B99 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 09:20:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.378 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HIvagL5YI4rH for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-x232.google.com (mail-oa0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c02::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB8EA1B2B93 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id n16so6636780oag.37 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=n1LW4sZ7CUpVlQRWpAoN/6ky1fDhRBffLzBohJrIOCk=; b=Uafe2JqvkR7FOEXrAT3esfizgv5rhvIWzmSeXrFPV/YnELEva8PMe3ahEddDVKfb78 ipV6869Ro/bjOlEij1Wg5qgUbBttQLNXxNuqicH5rUBCLKTNVfLkSMZjyT8wZ3q2rvgP YRpGnuLb3PaCTnaaZdBXAqx34yxtTfgk+m8Fg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=n1LW4sZ7CUpVlQRWpAoN/6ky1fDhRBffLzBohJrIOCk=; b=fRkpFBDl6v/VnN2TF0qhA8ODSh9vsKV9/i03RhGbXKmO/lMmgz12OKxjrxRFLzvxrb mqC5H1VPJFE0dT1D5F9wWxTTGadahHj0IATp1JdjRjWul45dNX+3taRTCmsgMvILU1jG vVQuGQoUcegJEmwz4d3ozd8JFlYWvUXinMBxgjQLU6JSJxmz/TGaQJNN8N1HJ1Nwzo8l wVrqBgeeITcD9EIFu+iDWoSuK4aoSbcmXW8Vf/lbVyXEhk+RGZcRPdsmU+rKrJBufQgL w94DRua+jQ+gWlqHfaUO/n4TdQd//9jBmZjBRMLRUG1G7mjTBEXqSPJq2dtGqrOeFqNb EMnQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnqdx6mcSsLJhiJPeGC0v/JSw4pd3xWoBZnBJhdYViOEqVn06xzgTDURVzQ8zgatrGcECWj MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.132.171 with SMTP id ov11mr40174307oeb.46.1404836458051; Tue, 08 Jul 2014 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.134.145 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 09:20:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 17:20:57 +0100 Message-ID: From: Dave Cridland To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4724f80ccbcc04fdb0fad3 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/rFkELU_gpNi2d8MxisNWyF0W0pI Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Jari Arkko , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 16:20:59 -0000 --047d7b4724f80ccbcc04fdb0fad3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 8 July 2014 16:49, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > Hi Dave, > > > > An implementor of RFC 6120 does not know that the XMPP over Websockets > binding option exists at all. It did not exist by the time 6120 was > written, so of course, they can do without it. Now that the binding exist, > the option should be visible IMO. > > > OK, but why is this case different to, for example, an IMAP extension, where we don't say "Updates: 3501" every time - indeed, qresync got serious push-back over the Updates there. Dave. --047d7b4724f80ccbcc04fdb0fad3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 8= July 2014 16:49, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com>= wrote:

Hi Dave,

=C2=A0

An implementor of RFC 6120 does not know t= hat the XMPP over Websockets binding option exists at all. It did not exist= by the time 6120 was written, so of course, they can do without it. Now that the binding exist, the option should be visible IMO. =



OK, but why is this case different to, for example, an IMAP extension, whe= re we don't say "Updates: 3501" every time - indeed, qresync = got serious push-back over the Updates there.

Dave.=C2=A0
--047d7b4724f80ccbcc04fdb0fad3-- From nobody Tue Jul 8 11:07:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCDDA1A039A; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 11:06:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.651 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RWRZAwklIvzK; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 11:06:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (ext-bt.isode.com [217.34.220.158]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C30B1A0370; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 11:06:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1404842814; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=y19OxJeC7X69cs8T1wdgFsSgE5zpwsxzsk/pozG2ly0=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=OtgYfANeuJP1le25uNgygaNeM6E1vnaqBu7qL8efldIT1ICYH/n2/7hK5iHnRUxXjCzyDC eV0uw+4yPcIERdflYuy57nTvMjB2/LdrQoy0Pn8rXxdncUQ8QncdcN/O9VHk42/t4yiOTU RxjxffejH6G2OeKL7i29NCc1i0PI/yc=; Received: from pagan.boolean.net ((unknown) [75.141.217.19]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 19:06:53 +0100 X-SMTP-Protocol-Errors: NORDNS PIPELINING From: Kurt Zeilenga In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 11:05:31 -0700 Message-Id: References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> To: Dave Cridland X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.3) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/FvGW0RzVNmp_xYxVUuR44pYgjnU Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Jari Arkko , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:06:56 -0000 Extension specifications, in my opinion, should not Update the base = specification. To those who think they should, consider what that = means when the base specification is an IETF full standard and the = extension specification is an independent submission experimental RFC. Making base specification implementors aware of an extension is NOT the = purpose of Updates. -- Kurt= From nobody Tue Jul 8 11:58:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0072E1A0251 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 11:58:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b2kXNPh0-Q75 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 11:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-f46.google.com (mail-oa0-f46.google.com [209.85.219.46]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CF2E1A049C for ; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id m1so985240oag.33 for ; Tue, 08 Jul 2014 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=TBqYVHsGRmlPEccAWaQsfo10l+dVJmpT9hfXeJBj+mc=; b=cwPjyO4mth6/NozLxqLLmyh5TSIy1Ii3lFpw2BmKIJ3xpBOKxF3mS01t0MwdI/NECs /gke8+hgprqXpAgwV/B10gIA7FEWf/TSYvn1LCD+i6zPu3PC6o/1et8FIHVfWsXdeaAM iTt/E3rwSGCZmkSz3Y9wDEgZfN0k30BfONmIaFVk2BMbcYPVTJhPwrV5PdVYtF4AVHjn Ssd/gOJgL9SFH4B+G6KyZ//e2iJkmd10mTSuQtU2VOgbAPcEpc6cfFpoEyJb9kbaFNRv E60q9G9evUtIngZ98ths8zKdbLDtT1PzU8R796+3pmaeQhOfvzfHswZr0tiYtBj3Fn6L A/gw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkCTm0tAwdIDQer2e+u7zv2PUEo38+HU7Jng+K6bSyzg12SdzNNhnNWl7Hb8ocvbx/PmBUZ MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.214.98 with SMTP id nz2mr41224621obc.62.1404845925050; Tue, 08 Jul 2014 11:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.143.131 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 11:58:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 14:58:44 -0400 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: Dave Cridland Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1cefe53c09504fdb32e06 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/yBFeQUb5s-VyHdiyjtjtj6ZdGkc Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "Romascanu, Dan \(Dan\)" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Jari Arkko , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:58:48 -0000 --e89a8ff1cefe53c09504fdb32e06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Dave Cridland wrote: > On 8 July 2014 16:49, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > >> Hi Dave, >> >> >> >> An implementor of RFC 6120 does not know that the XMPP over Websockets >> binding option exists at all. It did not exist by the time 6120 was >> written, so of course, they can do without it. Now that the binding exist, >> the option should be visible IMO. >> >> >> > OK, but why is this case different to, for example, an IMAP extension, > where we don't say "Updates: 3501" every time - indeed, qresync got serious > push-back over the Updates there. > I agree. This document does not update RFC 6120. If an implementation of RFC 6120 does not support this transport, then it will never need to know about the framing changes. If it does, then it will. The two are separate. "Updates" is not a mechanism for advertising additional features. --Richard > > Dave. > > _______________________________________________ > xmpp mailing list > xmpp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xmpp > > --e89a8ff1cefe53c09504fdb32e06 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Dave Cridland <dave@cr= idland.net> wrote:
=
On 8 July 2014 16:49, Romascanu,= Dan (Dan) <dromasca@avaya.com> wrote:

Hi Dave,

=C2=A0

An implementor of RFC 6120 does not know t= hat the XMPP over Websockets binding option exists at all. It did not exist= by the time 6120 was written, so of course, they can do without it. Now that the binding exist, the option should be visible IMO. =



OK, but why is this case different to, for example, an IMAP extensio= n, where we don't say "Updates: 3501" every time - indeed, qr= esync got serious push-back over the Updates there.

I agree.=C2=A0 This docu= ment does not update RFC 6120.=C2=A0 If an implementation of RFC 6120 does = not support this transport, then it will never need to know about the frami= ng changes.=C2=A0 If it does, then it will.=C2=A0 The two are separate.=C2= =A0

"Updates" is not a mechanism for advertising additional featu= res.

--Richard

=C2=A0

Dave.=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
xmpp mailing list
xmpp@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/xmpp


--e89a8ff1cefe53c09504fdb32e06-- From nobody Tue Jul 8 13:52:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C5C1B2ACF; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 08:49:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BygVsdcjfIKH; Tue, 8 Jul 2014 08:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C70871A030A; Tue, 8 Jul 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Thread-Index: AQHPmmk0VMwaQWD3002cTC8XVq7iEJuV4YTwgACvyYD//8ER8A== Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 15:49:19 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.45] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783AZFFEXMB04globa_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/186LRL49OFFblTRNmXS-YAMhaus X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:52:13 -0700 Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Jari Arkko , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 15:49:29 -0000 --_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783AZFFEXMB04globa_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgRGF2ZSwNCg0KQW4gaW1wbGVtZW50b3Igb2YgUkZDIDYxMjAgZG9lcyBub3Qga25vdyB0aGF0 IHRoZSBYTVBQIG92ZXIgV2Vic29ja2V0cyBiaW5kaW5nIG9wdGlvbiBleGlzdHMgYXQgYWxsLiBJ dCBkaWQgbm90IGV4aXN0IGJ5IHRoZSB0aW1lIDYxMjAgd2FzIHdyaXR0ZW4sIHNvIG9mIGNvdXJz ZSwgdGhleSBjYW4gZG8gd2l0aG91dCBpdC4gTm93IHRoYXQgdGhlIGJpbmRpbmcgZXhpc3QsIHRo ZSBvcHRpb24gc2hvdWxkIGJlIHZpc2libGUgSU1PLg0KDQpUaGUgbGFuZ3VhZ2UgeW91IHVzZSBp biB0aGUgSS1EIGFjdHVhbGx5IHNlZW1zIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgdGhpczoNCg0KPiBUaGUgV2ViU29j a2V0DQo+IFhNUFAgc3ViLXByb3RvY29sIGRldmlhdGVzIGZyb20gdGhlIHN0YW5kYXJkIG1ldGhv ZCBvZiBjb25zdHJ1Y3RpbmcgYW5kIHVzaW5nDQo+IFhNTCBzdHJlYW1zIGFzIGRlZmluZWQgaW4g 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xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D60411A03E4; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 06:16:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kr_5_7ol3kTO; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 06:16:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com (p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com [135.11.29.13]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 187301A050E; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 06:16:51 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AlIFAGZAvVPGmAcV/2dsb2JhbABZgkcjJFJagm+ofQEBAQEBAQaSfxwBB4dBARl3FnWEAwEBAQECAQEBAQ8RCkELEAIBCA0BAwQBAQsdAwICAiULFAkIAgQBDQUIGogYCAEMpCKKR5oDEwSFeokXLQQGAQaCcTaBFgWiLoxUg0NsgUQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.01,631,1400040000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="75307495" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest-exch.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.21]) by p-us1-iereast-outbound.us1.avaya.com with ESMTP; 09 Jul 2014 09:16:39 -0400 X-OutboundMail_SMTP: 1 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC01.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.11]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 09 Jul 2014 09:16:38 -0400 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC01.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.11]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 15:16:36 +0200 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Richard Barnes , Dave Cridland Thread-Topic: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 Thread-Index: AQHPmmk0VMwaQWD3002cTC8XVq7iEJuV4YTwgACvyYD//8ER8P//6HqAgAAsFgCAAUfnUA== Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 13:16:36 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C83B716@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.46] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C83B716AZFFEXMB04globa_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/MtPvktGCddIkQAfrmusFtIGs4Tk X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 07:30:33 -0700 Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Jari Arkko , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] 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X2JsYW5rIj5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3htcHA8L2E+PG86 cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwi PjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8 L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C83B716AZFFEXMB04globa_-- From nobody Wed Jul 9 07:38:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA851A0AE0; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:38:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.553 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.553 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CjUJar82m4Q1; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971451A0AC5; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aither.local (unknown [24.8.184.175]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CA0FA40E49; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 08:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <53BD53E6.8060803@stpeter.im> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 08:38:30 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , Richard Barnes , Dave Cridland References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C83B716@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C83B716@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/uLD04uJyrVKIxlP1xXmPQakXKkc Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Jari Arkko , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 14:38:35 -0000 On 7/9/14, 7:16 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > OK, I accept this, but in this case the text in the I-D should probably > be worded slightly different: > > > > The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of > > > > constructing and using XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by > > > > adopting the message framing provided by WebSocket to delineate the > > > > stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level stream > > > > elements. > > ‘deviates’ IMO suggests a change to the base specification, not just an > optional new binding. How about this: OLD The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of constructing and using XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by adopting the message framing provided by WebSocket to delineate the stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level stream elements. NEW The framing method for the binding of XMPP to WebSocket differs from the framing method for the TCP binding as defined in [RFC6120]; in particular, the WebSocket binding adopts the message framing provided by WebSocket to delineate the stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level stream elements. Peter From nobody Wed Jul 9 07:45:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 709D51A0AED; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:45:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7vOS4-kwnRiW; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:45:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com (de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.71.100]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B1F11A0AE8; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 07:45:18 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aj4FAI5UvVPGmAcV/2dsb2JhbABZgmokgSyrbgEBAQEBAQaaZAGBDxZ1hAMBAQEBAxIoPwwEAgEIDQQEAQEBChQJBzIUCQgCBAENBQgaiCABpDykRxeFeokXMQcGgyeBFgWiLoxUg0NsgUQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,631,1400040000"; d="scan'208";a="64170414" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest-exch.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.21]) by de307622-de-outbound.net.avaya.com with ESMTP; 09 Jul 2014 10:45:16 -0400 X-OutboundMail_SMTP: 1 Received: from unknown (HELO AZ-FFEXHC02.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.58.12]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 09 Jul 2014 10:45:15 -0400 Received: from AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com ([fe80::6db7:b0af:8480:c126]) by AZ-FFEXHC02.global.avaya.com ([135.64.58.12]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 9 Jul 2014 16:45:13 +0200 From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Peter Saint-Andre , Richard Barnes , "Dave Cridland" Thread-Topic: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 Thread-Index: AQHPmmk0VMwaQWD3002cTC8XVq7iEJuV4YTwgACvyYD//8ER8P//6HqAgAAsFgCAAUfnUIAAZk0A//++t6A= Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 14:45:13 +0000 Message-ID: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C83BAF5@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> References: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C823BB2@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <7CC08F3C-4747-4B65-9743-A19CDAE9F940@piuha.net> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C836AB4@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C838783@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C83B716@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> <53BD53E6.8060803@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <53BD53E6.8060803@stpeter.im> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.64.58.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/WfB9rM_RB_Fba9eTy7zq4xkHU5U Cc: "draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Jari Arkko , "xmpp@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-07 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2014 14:45:27 -0000 wfm Thanks and Regards, Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Saint-Andre [mailto:stpeter@stpeter.im] > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 5:39 PM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan); Richard Barnes; Dave Cridland > Cc: draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket.all@tools.ietf.org; gen-art@ietf.org; Jari > Arkko; xmpp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [xmpp] [Gen-art] Gen-ART review for draft-ietf-xmpp- > websocket-07 >=20 > On 7/9/14, 7:16 AM, Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > > OK, I accept this, but in this case the text in the I-D should > > probably be worded slightly different: > > > > > > The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard > method > > of > > > > > > constructing and using XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by > > > > > > adopting the message framing provided by WebSocket to delineate > the > > > > > > stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level str= eam > > > > > > elements. > > > > 'deviates' IMO suggests a change to the base specification, not just > > an optional new binding. >=20 > How about this: >=20 > OLD > The WebSocket XMPP sub-protocol deviates from the standard method of > constructing and using XML streams as defined in [RFC6120] by > adopting the message framing provided by WebSocket to delineate the > stream open and close headers, stanzas, and other top-level stream > elements. >=20 > NEW > The framing method for the binding of XMPP to WebSocket differs > from the framing method for the TCP binding as defined in [RFC6120]; > in particular, the WebSocket binding adopts the message framing > provided by WebSocket to delineate the stream open and close > headers, stanzas, and other top-level stream elements. >=20 > Peter From nobody Thu Jul 10 18:21:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07881A008D for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:21:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.953 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.953 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LT3mRklWUVdc for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (mailhost.stpeter.im [207.210.219.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8661A0039 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aither.local (unknown [24.8.184.175]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 13E1740E62; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 19:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <53BF3C04.80600@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 19:21:08 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP Working Group Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/GUftTR3KUxRYHAbHZ5SnN55FlZc Subject: [xmpp] next steps on draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 01:21:12 -0000 Dear Authors and WG, This morning, at Richard's invitation and as the document shepherd for draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket, I briefly joined the IESG telechat to talk through the DISCUSS positions lodged by Stephen Farrell and Ted Lemon: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ballot/ As a result, I'd like to ask the authors to complete several tasks (and I will be happy to propose or help with text for these items, since I was present during the IESG discussion): 1. More clearly describe the delegation scenario outlined in the second paragraph of Section 6: Browser based applications are not able to inspect and verify at the application layer the certificate used for the WebSocket connection to ensure that it corresponds to the domain specified as the "to" address of the XMPP stream. For hosts whose domain matches the origin for the WebSocket connection, that check is already performed by the browser. However, in situations where the domain of the XMPP server might not match the origin for the WebSocket endpoint (especially multi-tenant hosting situations), the web host metadata method (see [RFC6415] and [XEP-0156]) MAY be used to delegate trust from the XMPP server domain to the WebSocket origin. In particular, it would be very helpful to add two examples (one in which the WebSocket origin matches the domain of the XMPP service, and one in which it does not, e.g., delegation of foo.example to hosting.example.net) and to explain that the delegation model is conceptually the same as for the existing DNS SRV lookup methods described in RFC 6120, except using web linking in the WebSocket case. Extra credit for walking through the examples in enough depth that readers of this document can see all the key the steps involved (go to HTTPS URL at source domain for host-meta data, retrieve the appropriate web link, resolve that link to an IP address, connect there via wss: URI or HTTP upgrade, etc. - and what certificate to check at the end of that process, tying in with RFC 2818 for checking rules). 2. In Section 6.1, briefly describe why the choice of transport binding (WebSocket here vs. TCP as in RFC 6120), including the different message framing method used here, does not have an impact on the effectiveness of end-to-end stanza encryption methods. 3. There was a bit of confusion (reflected in Ted Lemon's DISCUSS) about the exact purpose of the WebSocket binding. To clear up this confusion, it would be good to explain that the WebSocket binding is an alternative way to interact with the same service that one might interact with using the TCP binding (in an IM context, one would be able to retrieve the same contact list, chat with the same people, etc.). That is, the point of the WebSocket binding is mainly to enable browser-based clients to connect to servers (in a more efficient way than BOSH), since such clients don't have access to facilities that would enable them to open TCP connections as in RFC 6120. It would be best if one aspect of this explanation would include a discussion of the security context for web-based interactions with XMPP services - e.g., the web origin concept (RFC 6454) applies, discovery occurs via host-meta and web linking, and browsers don't allow access to the application-layer certificates (perhaps there are other salient points to raise here, too, but those seem like the key ones to me). Richard, does that accurately summarize the discussion? Naturally, the authors also need to address the various other comments provided by IESG members (again, see ). Let me know if you have any questions or comments. Thanks! Peter From nobody Thu Jul 10 18:51:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974F71B2882 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:51:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WfVwpEg9O78P for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:51:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oa0-f41.google.com (mail-oa0-f41.google.com [209.85.219.41]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5A2D1B2816 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id l6so487361oag.0 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:51:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=CIbtWZSv1qgd822kybRtVotI0CtML64I73fktrYKl8E=; b=HjM9y7ZY1wfI57CoRHdFvkVv9hsVvNrVsRmBd5hFWtqefNrSk9jXD9JjD08qZfM/jX GsicPuEPVLdv9GcdL4WPwJksyV1pLI/4rqSfyOnkUmfHOfpn0Pafo6AJhU1YAToZONWN z+KwGrbAcwuzFm9dDoyLIrg3GMzeo+fxOtHjQdAX4RGKglTroYwEYUmb2mrtfk4YtXyS gftJ6dkCfH0wt0ipzk5lYMt0HTilmeihu75q6LHnlnQ5xjnl/6B3IAevw1RU936Bw/fo dEKihqJF4NCBJyvz9Y3KtRhDWaqUH3fUOccCvPBWVYpFC96LRxRh3NcwLUXjKHxIeWoa /DSA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlFeLOHxGroYvd3tMVn7QVhMayRLtajBIjDiP90eClNu5uIaONBGkdXtOTDcKIzvCJHbHMz MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.250.196 with SMTP id ze4mr59691029obc.46.1405043501988; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.54.38 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Jul 2014 18:51:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53BF3C04.80600@stpeter.im> References: <53BF3C04.80600@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 21:51:41 -0400 Message-ID: From: Richard Barnes To: Peter Saint-Andre Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1dcb8d49ec204fde12e9c Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/iOqeBazSQn_z21eZ4GXzqgPvU3U Cc: XMPP Working Group Subject: Re: [xmpp] next steps on draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 01:51:45 -0000 --001a11c1dcb8d49ec204fde12e9c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > Dear Authors and WG, > > This morning, at Richard's invitation and as the document shepherd for > draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket, I briefly joined the IESG telechat to talk > through the DISCUSS positions lodged by Stephen Farrell and Ted Lemon: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ballot/ > > As a result, I'd like to ask the authors to complete several tasks (and I > will be happy to propose or help with text for these items, since I was > present during the IESG discussion): > > 1. More clearly describe the delegation scenario outlined in the second > paragraph of Section 6: > > Browser based applications are not able to inspect and verify at the > application layer the certificate used for the WebSocket connection > to ensure that it corresponds to the domain specified as the "to" > address of the XMPP stream. For hosts whose domain matches the > origin for the WebSocket connection, that check is already performed > by the browser. However, in situations where the domain of the XMPP > server might not match the origin for the WebSocket endpoint > (especially multi-tenant hosting situations), the web host metadata > method (see [RFC6415] and [XEP-0156]) MAY be used to delegate trust > from the XMPP server domain to the WebSocket origin. > > In particular, it would be very helpful to add two examples (one in which > the WebSocket origin matches the domain of the XMPP service, and one in > which it does not, e.g., delegation of foo.example to hosting.example.net) > and to explain that the delegation model is conceptually the same as for > the existing DNS SRV lookup methods described in RFC 6120, except using web > linking in the WebSocket case. Extra credit for walking through the > examples in enough depth that readers of this document can see all the key > the steps involved (go to HTTPS URL at source domain for host-meta data, > retrieve the appropriate web link, resolve that link to an IP address, > connect there via wss: URI or HTTP upgrade, etc. - and what certificate to > check at the end of that process, tying in with RFC 2818 for checking > rules). > > 2. In Section 6.1, briefly describe why the choice of transport binding > (WebSocket here vs. TCP as in RFC 6120), including the different message > framing method used here, does not have an impact on the effectiveness of > end-to-end stanza encryption methods. > > 3. There was a bit of confusion (reflected in Ted Lemon's DISCUSS) about > the exact purpose of the WebSocket binding. To clear up this confusion, it > would be good to explain that the WebSocket binding is an alternative way > to interact with the same service that one might interact with using the > TCP binding (in an IM context, one would be able to retrieve the same > contact list, chat with the same people, etc.). That is, the point of the > WebSocket binding is mainly to enable browser-based clients to connect to > servers (in a more efficient way than BOSH), since such clients don't have > access to facilities that would enable them to open TCP connections as in > RFC 6120. It would be best if one aspect of this explanation would include > a discussion of the security context for web-based interactions with XMPP > services - e.g., the web origin concept (RFC 6454) applies, discovery > occurs via host-meta and web linking, and browsers don't allow access to > the application-layer certificates (perhaps there are other salient points > to raise here, too, but those seem like the key ones to me). > > Richard, does that accurately summarize the discussion? > Yes, that sounds accurate -- though I think the required text will take less space than the summary :) --Richard Naturally, the authors also need to address the various other comments > provided by IESG members (again, see < > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ballot/>). > > Let me know if you have any questions or comments. > > Thanks! > > Peter > --001a11c1dcb8d49ec204fde12e9c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpet= er.im> wrote:
Dear Authors and WG,

This morning, at Richard's invitation and as the document shepherd for = draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket, I briefly joined the IESG telechat to talk throu= gh the DISCUSS positions lodged by Stephen Farrell and Ted Lemon:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xm= pp-websocket/ballot/

As a result, I'd like to ask the authors to complete several tasks (and= I will be happy to propose or help with text for these items, since I was = present during the IESG discussion):

1. More clearly describe the delegation scenario outlined in the second par= agraph of Section 6:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Browser based applications are not able to inspect and verify = at the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0application layer the certificate used for the WebSocket conne= ction
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to ensure that it corresponds to the domain specified as the &= quot;to"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0address of the XMPP stream. =C2=A0For hosts whose domain match= es the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0origin for the WebSocket connection, that check is already per= formed
=C2=A0 =C2=A0by the browser. =C2=A0However, in situations where the domain = of the XMPP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0server might not match the origin for the WebSocket endpoint =C2=A0 =C2=A0(especially multi-tenant hosting situations), the web host met= adata
=C2=A0 =C2=A0method (see [RFC6415] and [XEP-0156]) MAY be used to delegate = trust
=C2=A0 =C2=A0from the XMPP server domain to the WebSocket origin.

In particular, it would be very helpful to add two examples (one in which t= he WebSocket origin matches the domain of the XMPP service, and one in whic= h it does not, e.g., delegation of foo.example to hosting.example.net) and to explain tha= t the delegation model is conceptually the same as for the existing DNS SRV= lookup methods described in RFC 6120, except using web linking in the WebS= ocket case. Extra credit for walking through the examples in enough depth t= hat readers of this document can see all the key the steps involved (go to = HTTPS URL at source domain for host-meta data, retrieve the appropriate web= link, resolve that link to an IP address, connect there via wss: URI or HT= TP upgrade, etc. - and what certificate to check at the end of that process= , tying in with RFC 2818 for checking rules).

2. In Section 6.1, briefly describe why the choice of transport binding (We= bSocket here vs. TCP as in RFC 6120), including the different message frami= ng method used here, does not have an impact on the effectiveness of end-to= -end stanza encryption methods.

3. There was a bit of confusion (reflected in Ted Lemon's DISCUSS) abou= t the exact purpose of the WebSocket binding. To clear up this confusion, i= t would be good to explain that the WebSocket binding is an alternative way= to interact with the same service that one might interact with using the T= CP binding (in an IM context, one would be able to retrieve the same contac= t list, chat with the same people, etc.). That is, the point of the WebSock= et binding is mainly to enable browser-based clients to connect to servers = (in a more efficient way than BOSH), since such clients don't have acce= ss to facilities that would enable them to open TCP connections as in RFC 6= 120. It would be best if one aspect of this explanation would include a dis= cussion of the security context for web-based interactions with XMPP servic= es - e.g., the web origin concept (RFC 6454) applies, discovery occurs via = host-meta and web linking, and browsers don't allow access to the appli= cation-layer certificates (perhaps there are other salient points to raise = here, too, but those seem like the key ones to me).

Richard, does that accurately summarize the discussion?
=C2=A0
Yes, that sounds accurate -- though I think the requ= ired text will take less space than the summary :)

--Richard

Naturally, the authors also need to address the various other comments prov= ided by IESG members (again, see <https://datatrac= ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ballot/>).

Let me know if you have any questions or comments.

Thanks!

Peter

--001a11c1dcb8d49ec204fde12e9c-- From nobody Sun Jul 20 10:31:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D7B71B28CE for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:31:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w5BpGv3Aonk8 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:31:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B1CB1B28B8 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 10:31:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3006; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1405877472; x=1407087072; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=zNAsCcxeLFmU+rURbU8CUDxQnPOCcjx8rsqT/RCr7A4=; b=V8+kNyUyDTemt3tyQXbl64Obddoh5jZk+1TpZxuPuCSr06idAGogcxke LF9te1WMPfvycr4v/mPp96/Q4VfQIon4KFHRRSeum4TJ7ch79cZELyA8F qM4MVSrMu1TNrTX0cX+F65Ixmq1iEZgBK/kJ31kNC9nhSUG6gOt0NBDY4 I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao0JALX7y1OtJA2J/2dsb2JhbABZgw5SUwitWEYBAQEBAgUBbpV6CodEAYEGFnaEAwEBAQQBAQFrCg0EHAMBAgoWDwkDAgECARUfBwIIBg0GAgEBBYg5CAXBCheFe4lXBoRABYorkHqBTYVIhwGGGYNgUAGBRA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,696,1400025600"; d="scan'208";a="338353148" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Jul 2014 17:31:11 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6KHVAf8020928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:31:10 GMT Received: from [10.89.8.151] (10.89.8.151) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (173.37.183.79) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.123.3; Sun, 20 Jul 2014 12:31:10 -0500 Message-ID: <53CBFCE7.8070507@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 13:31:19 -0400 From: Matt Miller User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: XMPP Group References: <20140704180630.4857.20132.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140704180630.4857.20132.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20140704180630.4857.20132.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.89.8.151] Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/Y8s3RnvzhJsjzuveqt6bVtB6Bis Subject: [xmpp] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-miller-xmpp-e2e-07.txt X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2014 17:31:16 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 My apologies for not sending this sooner; I thought I had already! /-: This update includes a number of updates and fixes from Carl Wallace, including adding Carl as a co-author. - -- - - m&m Matt Miller < mamille2@cisco.com > Cisco Systems, Inc. - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-miller-xmpp-e2e-07.txt Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 11:06:30 -0700 From: Reply-To: To: A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : End-to-End Object Encryption and Signatures for the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP) Authors : Matthew Miller Carl Wallace Filename : draft-miller-xmpp-e2e-07.txt Pages : 46 Date : 2014-07-04 Abstract: This document defines two methods for securing objects (often referred to as stanzas) for the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP), which allows for efficient asynchronous communication between two entities, each with might have multiple devices operating simultaneously. One is a method to encrypt stanzas to provide confidentiality protection; another is a method to sign stanzas to provide authentication and integrity protection. This document also defines a related protocol for entities to request the ephemeral session keys in use. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-miller-xmpp-e2e/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-miller-xmpp-e2e-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-miller-xmpp-e2e-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTy/znAAoJEDWi+S0W7cO1P8gIALDGMBNghi7ILnMaHrG7kb/2 ygGQuDSgj/nOSkXqh1EUwV/YyE0qo07l1IEx+3N+bLVObDoBn0P5vXuPCdM2ECUW z0mAk4qytcDHI5o6sdBicxOHoJSLZBloJIZjtijiL9Tv8uVhEthHF/wMD7xuxlVh j7EeakUSAoez8TNzZXgDMezuhMqt2iyFwuJUiFu7hBGpJSh6NixFEPWLIUPDoUZw Pbx6KpgQxEaGZIRWf+4LoSlUvD1V8y067LcJ7jYpG7vS1/PRBBKnP9rphk+KhY14 1pXbFw87iJRb2rKnl++rJ9O0MQChAFwsCeKFcI7SAwRTDoc4xyUq7wl8dvbmx4A= =P52C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Tue Jul 22 10:57:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCEE1B27A2; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:57:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LrtO2_TNuQ1s; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:57:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EBC61A000B; Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:57:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.1.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140722175754.28114.99601.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 10:57:54 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/iDJJIMHkZAIeEmyiXPQN_EJkyn4 Cc: xmpp@ietf.org Subject: [xmpp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-08.txt X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:57:55 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : An XMPP Sub-protocol for WebSocket Authors : Lance Stout Jack Moffitt Eric Cestari Filename : draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-08.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2014-07-22 Abstract: This document defines a binding for the XMPP protocol over a WebSocket transport layer. A WebSocket binding for XMPP provides higher performance than the current HTTP binding for XMPP. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-xmpp-websocket-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jul 30 14:25:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD59F1A0552; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 14:25:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 57DEzMR_Xkm1; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 14:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No 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(xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6ULPYR3021047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:25:34 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.102]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:25:34 -0500 From: "Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)" To: "xmpp@ietf.org" , "precis@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: review of draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-12 Thread-Index: AQHPrDzL9R10zr+WqkC/gobE1sN1DQ== Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:25:33 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.3.140616 x-originating-ip: [10.89.11.87] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <5112396BBE9CED41988615D1FFF2C2A3@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/dWGsWasI7b5A2SLes4I8fye6XN8 Subject: 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c2EpLCBhbmQgdGhhdCB3ZSBzdWdnZXN0DQpjYXJlZnVsIHRlc3RpbmcgYmVmb3JlIG1pZ3JhdGlu ZyB1c2VyIGRhdGEuDQoNCg0KLS0gDQpKb2UgSGlsZGVicmFuZA0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Wed Jul 30 16:13:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 732ED1A01E5; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:12:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.551 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nlUDivaMccfC; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from babelmonkeys.de (babelmonkeys.de [IPv6:2a02:d40:3:1:10a1:5eff:fe52:509]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 006521A0197; Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:12:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xdsl-87-79-52-42.netcologne.de ([87.79.52.42] helo=[192.168.0.140]) by babelmonkeys.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.1:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XCd3G-00037G-P6; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 01:12:54 +0200 Message-ID: <53D97BF1.6010602@babelmonkeys.de> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 01:12:49 +0200 From: Florian Zeitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)" , "xmpp@ietf.org" , "precis@ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/5IS_4ekTYpd9t7pj2cC6OE4TuxE Subject: Re: [xmpp] [precis] review of draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-12 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 23:12:59 -0000 Hy Joe, I largely agree with your comments. Some remarks inline. On 30.07.2014 23:25, Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr) wrote: > [...] > > 3.1. Fundamentals > > > > jid = [ localpart "@" ] domainpart [ "/" resourcepart ] > > localpart = 1*1023(localpoint) > > ; > > ; a "localpoint" is a UTF-8 encoded > > ; Unicode code point that conforms to > > ; the "JIDlocalIdentifierClass" profile > > ; of the PRECIS IdentifierClass > > ; > > This implies 1023 codepoints, not 1023 bytes to me. Same issue for ifqdn > and resourcepart. 6122 just had 1*; I think going back to that would be > fine since we have a rule below that captures the max size. > That is somewhat debatable. 1* is as correct/wrong as 1*1023 is. 1023 is an upper limit on the number of codepoints (all of them 7-bit ASCII), it does however not capture the separate rule about the maximum number of bytes. I'm not sure which version is less confusing. > [snip: when are rules applied, what about dumb clients?] I specifically pushed for having text clarifying this. I thought it was sufficiently covered in Section 4. Do you disagree, and/or think we need a forward reference here? > > A localpart MUST consist only of Unicode code points that conform to > > the "JIDlocalIdentifierClass" profile of the "IdentifierClass" base > > string class defined in [I-D.ietf-precis-framework]. The > > JIDlocalIdentifierClass profile includes all code points allowed by > > the IdentifierClass base class, with the exception of the following > > characters that are explicitly disallowed in XMPP localparts: > > (special precis focus) > I would have expected this to be phrased more similarly to step 2 of > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-precis-framework-17#section-5, or > for section 5 to just have a step about codepoints forbidden in a given > usage of the selected precis class. > Personally I think this is fine. It's what I would have expected from the description in . If anything, I would have expected this to be phrased similarly to section 3.2.3 or 3.3.3 (Disallowed). My understanding is that this would be checked as part of step 5 in section 5. > [...] > > 1. Fullwidth and halfwidth characters MAY be mapped to their > > decomposition mappings. > > (precis) > I need a hint as to when do this. "MAY" isn't nearly enough. > I think this actually relates a lot to how we expect XMPP resources to be used. They are not supposed to be entered by users. Possibly not even user visible. If this mapping was only relevant to servers, I'd say "whatever floats your boat". Make it implementation defined behaviour and that is that. Servers probably wouldn't implement it, because it's pointless work. However, thick clients have some features that communicate full JIDs between clients directly. For this case it is potentially vital that both clients perform the same set of mappings. Hence, I actually tend to prefer "MUST NOT" here. > > 2. Map any instances of non-ASCII space to ASCII space (U+0020). > > (precis) > I was hoping either the framework doc or the mappings doc would tell me > more about which characters to map here. RFC 3454 had table C.1.2, but I > don't see any hints about what I'm supposed to do now. Is the rule "has a > compatibility mapping to U+0020"? That doesn't hit U+200B which is in > C.1.2, nor does "has category Zs". draft-ietf-precis-mappings says > "Therefore, the special mapping table should be based on a well- > defined mapping table for each protocol", which although I don't > particularly like, I can live with - but we need the table here. > I think we need more specific text, and I think it is quite likely more appropriate for the framework or mapping document than this profile. I'm not sure it needs to be a table. Potentially "has category Zs" is good enough, but I'd want to look closer at the Unicode data first. I think your remark about U+200B being in C.1.2 is slightly off. The tables in appendix C are specifically prohibition tables, and not mapping tables. B.1 lists U+200B as commonly mapped to nothing, which I think is the right thing to do wrt mapping this codepoint. Do you have any other codepoint in mind that is not in Zs, but should be mapped to ASCII space? > > 3. So-called additional mappings MAY be applied, such as mapping of > > characters that are similar to common delimiters (such as '@', > > ':', '/', '+', '-', and '.', e.g., mapping of IDEOGRAPHIC FULL > > STOP (U+3002) to FULL STOP (U+002E)) and special handling of > > certain characters or classes of characters (e.g., mapping of > > non-ASCII spaces to ASCII space); the PRECIS mappings document > > [I-D.ietf-precis-mappings] describes such mappings in more > > detail. > > > > 4. Uppercase and titlecase characters MAY be mapped to their > > lowercase equivalents, preferably using Unicode Default Case > > Folding as defined in Chapter 3 of the Unicode Standard > > [UNICODE]. > > Again, I need more about the MAY here. > See above. We might want to have a discussion about the effects of different implementations performing different sets of mappings. I personally think we want to explicitly mandate or disallow mappings of codepoints that are otherwise PVALID. > [...] > > Appendix A. Differences from RFC 6122 > > > > Based on consensus derived from working group discussion, > > implementation and deployment experience, and formal interoperability > > testing, the following substantive modifications were made from RFC > > 6122. > > I think it might be nice to point out that this may have made > previously-valid JIDs no longer valid (or vice-versa), and that we suggest > careful testing before migrating user data. > Do we have data to what extend this is the case? I.e. which codepoints that were previously allowed are now disallowed? I think it might be worthwhile to be very specific here, particularly concerning why we think these changes are appropriate. There may be a very vocal minority that is not okay with their JIDs being deprecated. Regards, Florian From nobody Thu Jul 31 08:49:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: xmpp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC9E1B293C; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:49:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dhrC6pVN75wP; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s6VFnf7p030391 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:49:41 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.102]) by xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([173.37.183.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:49:40 -0500 From: "Joe Hildebrand (jhildebr)" To: Florian Zeitz , "xmpp@ietf.org" , "precis@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [precis] review of draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-12 Thread-Index: AQHPrDzL9R10zr+WqkC/gobE1sN1DZu5kueAgACx84A= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:49:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <53D97BF1.6010602@babelmonkeys.de> In-Reply-To: <53D97BF1.6010602@babelmonkeys.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.3.140616 x-originating-ip: [10.129.24.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/xmpp/25_fxpOzT1Dh2sNtB2LUqTY_VWY Subject: Re: [xmpp] [precis] review of draft-ietf-xmpp-6122bis-12 X-BeenThere: xmpp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: XMPP Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:49:44 -0000 T24gNy8zMC8xNCwgNToxMiBQTSwgIkZsb3JpYW4gWmVpdHoiIDxmbG9yb2JAYmFiZWxtb25rZXlz LmRlPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPkh5IEpvZSwgSSBsYXJnZWx5IGFncmVlIHdpdGggeW91ciBjb21tZW50 cy4gU29tZSByZW1hcmtzIGlubGluZS4NCj4NCj5PbiAzMC4wNy4yMDE0IDIzOjI1LCBKb2UgSGls ZGVicmFuZCAoamhpbGRlYnIpIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gWy4uLl0NCj4+ICA+IDMuMS4gIEZ1bmRhbWVu dGFscw0KPj4gID4gDQo+PiAgPiAgICAgICBqaWQgICAgICAgICAgID0gWyBsb2NhbHBhcnQgIkAi IF0gZG9tYWlucGFydCBbICIvIg0KPj5yZXNvdXJjZXBhcnQgXQ0KPj4gID4gICAgICAgbG9jYWxw YXJ0ICAgICA9IDEqMTAyMyhsb2NhbHBvaW50KQ0KPj4gID4gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg IDsNCj4+ICA+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICA7IGEgImxvY2FscG9pbnQiIGlzIGEgVVRG 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