From nobody Tue Aug 1 02:31:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E1C1132879; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 02:31:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cesnet.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YsFDCIeNX-7s; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 02:31:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 173E9132455; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 02:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:1220:80c:95:e09a:96fc:f080] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1220:80c:95:e09a:96fc:f080]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 83D7940005D; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:31:13 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=office2; t=1501579874; bh=Dz3CEx29CU6ZlQx7EJel0ZxHN4hHddbcGA7237ijczs=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=cFjDxwbeoBntqfdJCYeqhfGzNvdZPiJDU2sF65bDSyESI+wOAiAuEp5tgP/Q1NbSC Lhvw6eTfD7fcrWwqePm8ZOnXc2ntIUyZr5ewNXbrlslwYShL6Vz86NtoUz4HhCS4VX rX+xvt8KWgy+0Y0ejGVHE9sDVd/3QTMuIgfRSlOQ= To: "Pieter Lewyllie (pilewyll)" , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" Cc: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" , "Mahesh Jethanandani (mahesh)" , RTG YANG Design Team , Ing-Wher Chen , "Carl Moberg (camoberg)" , YANG Doctors , Henrik Levkowetz References: <4336925e-a64f-2d73-c67a-a5842de470b1@cisco.com> <40AA2897-E297-4A10-AD1E-45EA8A078336@cisco.com> <015C00CD-30AE-4ED4-AE2E-5188E79F1C25@cisco.com> <70E356C5-E78B-4E0F-89A6-26E28E802137@cisco.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?UmFkZWsgS3JlasSNw60=?= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:30:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <70E356C5-E78B-4E0F-89A6-26E28E802137@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] YANG Tool Requests => regex validator X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 09:31:21 -0000 Hi, yangre requires patterns as you would write them in a YANG schema. Using = { in pattern without quoting is illegal - see RFC 7950, sec 6.1.3. It is = the same issue as have semicolon there. So, yangre actually does not fail= with quantifier, but since it follows {, a valid YANG statement is expec= ted, but 3 is an invalid statement/keyword. yangre actually takes the pattern, creates very small YANG schema and the= n 1) validates the schema (which does not pass in this case) and then 2) = checks if the leaf of string type with the specified pattern(s) can have = the provided value (if it matches the patterns). So it actually checks wh= at yanglint does in case the string is specified as leaf's default value.= Regarding the quotes in CLI - it is quite challenging to make quotation c= orrect because of interpreting quotation by shell. See help, there are so= me examples but there can be some special cases or different behavior wit= h different shell. The current yangre accepts alternative input via a fil= e (patterns on separate lines, leading space for invert match, at the las= t line after a single blank line the string for matching) which would avo= id issues with quoting. Anyway, as we were discussing with Pieter - Pytho= n seems to do the quotation correct (or probably just bypass the shell), = but yangre expect the patterns _including_ the quotation as you would wri= te it in YANG schema. Only this way all the YANG rules can be checked. Regards, Radek Dne 29.7.2017 v 12:06 Pieter Lewyllie (pilewyll) napsal(a): > I get the same results as Joe stated before. > > I=E2=80=99m wondering why YANGRE requires extra quotes to match with th= e {3} quantifier. > > Using the GUI: > > (([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3} matches 192.1.= 1. on W3CGREP, but not on YANGRE ( yangre error: Invalid keyword "3=E2=80= =9D. ) > > '(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}=E2=80=99 matc= hes 192.1.1. on YANGRE, but not on W3CGREP (which is expecting the =E2=80= =98 in the test string) > > The same behaviour can be observed in the CLI, you just have to add wra= p the expressions with appropriate quotes. > > *Radek,* do you have an idea why the YANGRE fails with the quantifier? = Here are a couple of CLI examples that I observed: > yangre -p "(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-= 9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?" "192.168= =2E0.1" > yangre error: Invalid keyword "3=E2=80=9D. > > /yangre -p "'(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([= 0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?'" =E2=80= =9C192.168.0.1=E2=80=9D=20 > matches (no output) > > When inverting the quotes: (single quotes on the outside) > yangre -p '"(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0= -9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?"' "192.1= 68.0.1" > yangre error: Invalid keyword "(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-= 9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N= }\p{L}]+)?=E2=80=9D". > > yangre -p '(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-= 9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?' "192.168= =2E0.1" > yangre error: Invalid keyword "3". > > Cheers, > Pieter > > >> On 28 Jul 2017, at 20:23, Acee Lindem (acee) > wrote: >> >> >> >> From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > >> Date: Friday, July 28, 2017 at 2:12 PM >> To: Acee Lindem > >> Cc: "Pieter Lewyllie (pilewyll)" >, "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" >, "Mahesh Jethanandani (mahesh)" >, RTG YANG Design Team >, Ing-Wher Chen >, "Carl Moberg (camoberg)" >, YANG Doctors >, Henrik Levkowetz >, Radek Krej=C4=8D=C3=AD > >> Subject: Re: YANG Tool Requests =3D> regex validator >> >> >> https://yangcatalog.org/yangre doesn=E2=80=99t work for me, no= matter how I quote >> it. >> >> I tried with the inet:ipv4-address pattern and I did get this = to work with >> W3CGREP but not yangre no matter how I quoted it. For W3CGREP,= I had to >> remove all the quoting and concatenation. This could be error = prone for a >> very complex pattern. >> >> Hmmm. This pattern from ietf-inet-types (note: I had the single qu= otes in the UI): >> >> '(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-9]|[1= -9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?' >> >> Works for me with this string (only with YANGRE): >> >> 192.168.1.1 >> >> Nope =E2=80=93 exact same pattern and test string fails for me. If I u= nquote it, it works with W3CGREP.=20 >> >> >> Thanks, >> Acee=20 >> >> >> >> Joe >> > --=20 Radek Krejci mobile : +420 732 212 714 office : +420 234 680 256 e-mail : rkrejci@cesnet.cz LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/radekkrejci CESNET, Association of Legal Entities Zikova 4 160 00 Praha 6 Czech Republic From nobody Tue Aug 1 03:15:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AAFD129B5E; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 03:15:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.912 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.912 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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I cannot reconcile this I-D with my (mis?)understanding of cryptography. Stepping back, I see two types of keys, symmetric where one key is used for encryption and decryption, and asymmetric, where there are two keys, public and private, mathematically related but impossible to derive one from the other, one used to encrypt, the other to decrypt. I see this I-D as solely concerned with asymmetric keys. Public and private key pairs must be generated together, after which the private key must stay secret else you have no security. Public keys by contrast are public for all to know. The challenge is authenticating that the public key really is the public key of who you think it is. Most public keys arrive by certificates which then allow you to follow a chain thereof to a hopefully trustworthy trust anchor. SSH, and some other protocols, are different in distributing naked public keys and relying on some other means of authenticating them (e.g. Trust on First Use). So when you say "AFAICT, the system should be able to generate its host-key from the private-key itself. " that is at odds with my understanding and would lead to an absence of security. When the I-D says, "that might be used to hold onto private keys and certificates " I struggle to see the point. Indeed, the module contains public keys as well as "leaf public-key { config false; mandatory true;" so you are really storing public/private key pairs (which may be generated on the box). The I-D also says "Certificates associated with this private key." which defeats me. A certificate or chain thereof gives me a public key, never a private one, and the means to authenticate the public key. A public key may or may not have a certificate or chain thereof. A TLS client would likely have both but will rarely have a private key. A server of any protocol (except SSH and such like) will have a public/private key pair and a certificate (and likely a chain thereof) to send to any enquiring client along with the public key. An SSH server would have a public/private key pair but likely no certificates. So, I cannot reconcile my understanding with the I-D. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" To: "Kent Watsen" Cc: ; ; Sent: Friday, July 28, 2017 6:09 PM > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 05:00:06PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > >> >> >> - I am not sure I understand trusted-host-keys. On systems that have > > >> >> >> multiple user accounts, you usually have a per account list of > > >> >> >> trusted host keys in addition to a global system wide list. Perhaps > > >> >> >> make it clear that this models the global known hosts list only? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> it's a list of lists, so there can be many different > > >> >> >> sets a host-keys defined, with each application/use pointing > > >> >> >> to its own entry. The ietf-ssh-client module's grouping has > > >> >> >> a leafref to a specific entry. FWIW, this grouping is > > >> >> >> used by ietf-netconf-client module. At the moment, there > > >> >> >> no other uses of this grouping. I think that you may be > > >> >> >> getting confused between the key the server presents (the > > >> >> >> host-key) versus the key user presents. > > >> >> >> . > > >> >> > > > >> >> > I though these are the authorized host keys? Yes, I am confused. If > > >> >> > these are user public keys, they should not be called host keys. But > > >> >> > yes, I am confused (but I started to read the other documents). > > >> >> > > >> >> This leaf encodes an SSH public key (RFC4253, 6.6), same as used in > > >> >> /ietf-system/system/user/authorized-key/key-data (and I have changed > > >> >> this leaf's type to match it in my local copy already), but the uses > > >> >> are different. In ietf-system, the authorized-key is configured on > > >> >> a server in order to authenticate subsequent SSH-client connections. > > >> >> Here, we're taking about the key that that SSH-server presents to > > >> >> the client. These are the host keys that OpenSSL often puts into the > > >> >> ~/.ssh/known-hosts file. > > >> > > > >> > I understand what you are modeling is /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key.pub > > >> > and friends. Make sure it is described clearly. Or do you actually > > >> > mean the clients cache of authenticated keys that goes into an > > >> > account's known-hosts file? In this case, the keystore may be the > > >> > wrong place. > > >> > > >> /keystore/trusted-host-keys/trusted-host-key is in fact like the > > >> known-hosts file. That is, these are the host-keys that a client has > > >> "pinned" or "trusted". The ietf-ssh-client has a leafref to one of > > >> these entries. We could rename "trusted-host-key[s]" to > > >> "pinned-host-key[s]" if that helps. Ditto for trusted-certificate[s]) > > >> > > >> By contrast, /keystore/keys/key/name is referenced by ietf-ssh-server > > >> to identify the host-key(s) the SSH server presents to SSH clients. > > >> This is analogous to /etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key.pub and friends. This > > >> node isn't called e.g. /keystore/keys/key/ssh-host-key because, AFAICT, > > >> the system should be able to generate its host-key from the private-key > > >> itself. Thus, referencing the name is equivalent. If there were a > > >> /keystore/keys/key/ssh-host-key node, it would be a gratuitous config > > >> false value that somehow encoded the host-key in a more SSH friendly > > >> format. But, it may have a subtler value in that, I think that your > > >> confusion may be because it was NOT there and so, in its absence, > > >> you may have thought that the "trusted-host-keys" must serve that > > >> function. Thoughts? > > >> > > >> BTW, "host key" has a specific meaning, defined in RFC4251#4.1, not to > > >> be confused with authorized keys. > > > > > > I do not really follow you. I think I do understand what a host key > > > (pair) is and that it is different from a users key (pair). > > > > Fine, but this is SSH architecture thing, not something specific to > > the draft - right? > > ??? > > > > Yes, I did > > > not understand from reading the ID that the private SSH host key is to > > > be found in /keystore/keys/key/name (likely because of all the > > > certificate stuff around it that I have never seen used with SSH host > > > keys). > > > > Okay, then do you like having a /keystore/keys/key/ssh-host-key node? > > I guess what I am looking for is a more radical split between X.509 > stuff and SSH key stuff, the most radical split would be a module for > X.509 keys and certs and another module for SSH host keys. Or > alternatively, if there is really a strong reason to have all these > different keys in one list, then define the list such that > augmentations add X.509 stuff and SSH key stuff. I am not a fan of > lists where the usage of leafs for different purposes is not clear. > > > > I guess I am not a big fan of bundling the way X.509 keys and certs > > > work together with how SSH keys work (because I am not used to this > > > and the systems I tend to use do not do this either). Anyway, if this > > > is the direction to go, I think this needs explanatory text somewhere. > > > > So then perhaps factoring out the x.509 and ssh stuff out into augmenting > > modules? > > I am not sure how much is left, other than a list with a key name leaf > and whether it is worth to have this common structure (and whether any > uniqueness constraints resulting from that are a benefit or not). > > > > > >> >> >> - Should the document title be aligned with other YANG module > > >> >> >> definitions, so it is easier to spot it? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> I don't understand, what do you mean? > > >> >> > > > >> >> > We often use "[A] YANG Data Model for ....". > > >> >> > > > >> >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YANG#Usage_in_Standards > > >> >> > > > >> >> > The current name does not say YANG (sometimes I search for YANG > > >> >> > in the RFC index) and Keystore is also pretty broad given the > > >> >> > related work we have. > > >> >> > > >> >> Gotcha, how about "YANG Data Model for Keystores"? > > >> > > > >> > Yes, except that 'keystores' leaves readers unclear about the scope. I > > >> > commented several times that the names of this module and the other > > >> > module for symmetric keys are unfortunate. Concerning the SSH keys, I > > >> > am still concerned that we would be better off to have a separate SSH > > >> > module that takes care about managing an SSH server's host keys and > > >> > then this module would be X509 certificate specific, i.e., a 'YANG > > >> > Data Model for Managing X.509 Keys and Certificates' would be a clear > > >> > and well defined scope. > > >> > > >> From a refactoring perspective, we could have a base module and then > > >> two augmenting modules, one for SSH and the other for X.509. I would > > >> think to define all three modules in the same draft, but that wouldn't > > >> help your draft-name issue. We could put each module into own draft > > >> (e.g. +2 drafts), but is it worth it for renaming sake? Maybe an even > > >> longer title? "YANG Data Model for Managing Asymmetric Private Keys, > > >> X.509 Certificates, and SSH Host Keys'? Naming aside, what do you > > >> think about the module-factoring idea? > > > > > > Perhaps it is simpler to have one data model to manage X.509 keys and > > > certs and another data model to manage SSH keys. I do not know how > > > much commonality there is. At the end, I also do not mind if > > > everything is lumped together as long as it is clear how to implement > > > things and key formats etc match with what implementations typically > > > do. > > > > Two modules, something like ietf-ssh-keystore and ietf-x509-keystore? > > Of course, there would overlap between them (e.g., both modules would > > have the /keys/key hierarchy, the ietf-ssh-client/server modules might > > need to import both keystores, since SSH can use X.509 certs too (per > > RFC6187). I don't know, this doesn't seem right. For instance, what > > is a server to do if it generates a private key that has not yet been > > associated with an X.509 cert or SSH host key, is the private key to > > appear in both keystores? > > Is this how systems work? My command line tools either create X.509 > keys or SSH keys. > > > >> >> >> - Since the certs of a key do not contain a signature, where are signed > > >> >> >> certificates stored or are they outside the scope of the model? > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> I'm confused, certificates are signed structures already... > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Well, the description of certificates/certificate/value says: > > >> >> > > > >> >> > An unsigned PKCS #7 SignedData structure, as specified > > >> >> > by Section 9.1 in RFC 2315, containing just certificates > > >> >> > (no content, signatures, or CRLs), encoded using ASN.1 > > >> >> > distinguished encoding rules (DER), as specified in > > >> >> > ITU-T X.690. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Yes, I am confused how this works. > > >> >> > > >> >> Okay, now I understand your confusion. I believe the text is > > >> >> accurate. Think of the PKCS#7 structure being a little like a > > >> >> TAR file that contains a directory structure like this: > > >> >> > > >> >> pkcs7: > > >> >> /signed-info > > >> >> /signature - this sig is only over 'signed-info' ... > > >> >> /extra-certificates > > >> >> /extra-revocation-objects > > >> >> > > >> >> So, in this case, we're using a degenerate form of the pkcs7 > > >> >> structure that has no content (signed-info), signature, or CRLs > > >> >> (revocation-objects), it only contains the certificates. Perhaps > > >> >> my use of the word "unsigned" isn't clear enough? > > >> > > > >> > So why pkcs7, is this what implementations use? The certificates > > >> > > >> Why pkcs7 is because each certificate may have an associated chain > > >> of certificates leading to a trust-anchor CA certificate. For instance, > > >> a vendor might have a CA called "foo-root" that signs an intermediate > > >> CA called "foo-intermediate" that signs the "foo-entity" certificates. > > >> So, a given foo-entity certificate (a single X.509 structure) is > > >> commonly presented along with its chain of CA certs (more X.509 > > >> structures), in this case, the "foo-intermediate" and "foo-root" CA > > >> certs. The pkcs7 structure is commonly used for this purpose in the > > >> PKI world. Yes, it could be just a TAR file having a flat list of > > >> certs, but then we'd have to define that structure, whereas its > > >> already defined in pkcs7. > > >> > > >> > I find in /etc/ssl/certs on my Debian system seem to be in PEM format. > > >> > > >> PEM and DER are interchangeable formats. PEM is essentially the base64 > > >> encoding of the DER surrounded by the "===== BEGIN/END CERTIFICATE > > >> =====" header/footer. > > >> > > > > > > DER encoded certificate or pkcs7? I thought PEM is just a base64 > > > encoded version of the DER encoded certificate, no pkcs7 involved. > > > > Both PKCS7 and X.509 or ASN.1-encoded structures, and all ASN.1 structures > > can be encoded using PEM, DER, or even BER. Your debian system's "certs" > > directory undoubtedly only contains root certs, hence there is no cert-chain > > to staple to them, and hence a single X.509 structure (either PEM or a DER) > > is perfect. As soon as you step into needing more than one cert, then > > either PKCS7 or PKCS12 (both of which could be PEM or DER encoded), or a > > very special multi-part PEM (one that contains more than one of the "=====" > > BEGIN/END blocks) could be used. BTW, all this was discussed a while back > > related to https://github.com/netconf-wg/keystore/issues/1. What's written > > in the GitHub issue tracker should be ignored, search instead the list-archive > > on issue #1... > > > > What matters is that the I-D is clear and captures the important > reasons etc. You can't expect implementors to read github issues > or mailing list archives. Sorry for my ignorance. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > Netconf mailing list > Netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf From nobody Tue Aug 1 05:58:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C69D131545; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 05:58:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] 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XCH-RTP-012.cisco.com (64.101.220.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 08:57:55 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 08:57:55 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: =?utf-8?B?UmFkZWsgS3JlasSNw60=?= , "Pieter Lewyllie (pilewyll)" , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" CC: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" , "Mahesh Jethanandani (mahesh)" , RTG YANG Design Team , Ing-Wher Chen , "Carl Moberg (camoberg)" , YANG Doctors , Henrik Levkowetz Thread-Topic: YANG Tool Requests => regex validator Thread-Index: AQHS/sQbX3YVGh7Gv0CrGwl3/lVlXaJoKFGAgAEhngCAACN7gIAAU8+A///Y4ICAAEWRAP//wCEAgAFKeQCABKz6gP//9sWA Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:57:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4336925e-a64f-2d73-c67a-a5842de470b1@cisco.com> <40AA2897-E297-4A10-AD1E-45EA8A078336@cisco.com> <015C00CD-30AE-4ED4-AE2E-5188E79F1C25@cisco.com> <70E356C5-E78B-4E0F-89A6-26E28E802137@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: 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with ESMTPS id B8ED5132162; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 06:21:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:1220:80c:95:e09a:96fc:f080] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1220:80c:95:e09a:96fc:f080]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0025440005D; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 15:21:21 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=office2; t=1501593683; bh=74L3/iWkOToVY7hka5IbVUYqoGpvG5sVGNse61Hfy2A=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=H+h7UTEs5mwcJDBX577km+kQC370BpqxIZA2R0VUrdcuF1xh416zFasd8LTQu/cmn UhxmE3qpAIF/64Bo/dhZgHo7W+sXI4a1fDrJjUgiHDOn9EqTzXpJUm1ze7QWd5vgDL crRwnvt+BjQrporEaKwU94t47QUnTtLuWBdKbzz0= To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "Pieter Lewyllie (pilewyll)" , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" Cc: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" , "Mahesh Jethanandani (mahesh)" , RTG YANG Design Team , Ing-Wher Chen , "Carl Moberg (camoberg)" , YANG Doctors , Henrik Levkowetz References: <4336925e-a64f-2d73-c67a-a5842de470b1@cisco.com> <40AA2897-E297-4A10-AD1E-45EA8A078336@cisco.com> <015C00CD-30AE-4ED4-AE2E-5188E79F1C25@cisco.com> <70E356C5-E78B-4E0F-89A6-26E28E802137@cisco.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?UmFkZWsgS3JlasSNw60=?= Message-ID: <7d09c750-9f25-0982-aa0f-d832a0136cb0@cesnet.cz> Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 15:20:58 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] YANG Tool Requests => regex validator X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 13:21:34 -0000 Hi Acee, if you just remove newlines (putting multiple lines on a single line) and= preserve +, it works just fine even in GUI.Just try "[0-9]*" + "[a-z]*" = with e.g. 01ac test string. I've tried to copy multi-line pattern into GU= I's pattern field and it seems to be removing newline characters automati= cally, so you should be straightforward. yangre on cli (with command line patterns, not when reading patterns from= file) accepts even multi-line patterns (when correctly provided to shell= ): $ yangre -V -p '"[0-9]*" + "[a-z]*"' 1342dsga pattern 1: "[0-9]*" + "[a-z]*" matching 1: regular string : 1342dsga result : matching Regards, Radek Dne 1.8.2017 v 14:57 Acee Lindem (acee) napsal(a): > Hi Radek,=20 > > So then if one is to cut and paste that quoted pattern from the IETF ya= ng > model into https://yangcatalog.org/yangre, it should work? Most complex= > patterns are multi-line quoted strings for readability in Internet draf= ts. > Will these multi-line patterns be handled correctly or should on do the= > concatenation manually after cut and past? > > Thanks, > Acee=20 > > On 8/1/17, 5:30 AM, "Radek Krej=C4=8D=C3=AD" wrote:= > >> Hi, >> yangre requires patterns as you would write them in a YANG schema. Usi= ng >> { in pattern without quoting is illegal - see RFC 7950, sec 6.1.3. It = is >> the same issue as have semicolon there. So, yangre actually does not f= ail >> with quantifier, but since it follows {, a valid YANG statement is >> expected, but 3 is an invalid statement/keyword. >> >> yangre actually takes the pattern, creates very small YANG schema and >> then 1) validates the schema (which does not pass in this case) and th= en >> 2) checks if the leaf of string type with the specified pattern(s) can= >> have the provided value (if it matches the patterns). So it actually >> checks what yanglint does in case the string is specified as leaf's >> default value. >> >> Regarding the quotes in CLI - it is quite challenging to make quotatio= n >> correct because of interpreting quotation by shell. See help, there ar= e >> some examples but there can be some special cases or different behavio= r >> with different shell. The current yangre accepts alternative input via= a >> file (patterns on separate lines, leading space for invert match, at t= he >> last line after a single blank line the string for matching) which wou= ld >> avoid issues with quoting. Anyway, as we were discussing with Pieter -= >> Python seems to do the quotation correct (or probably just bypass the >> shell), but yangre expect the patterns _including_ the quotation as yo= u >> would write it in YANG schema. Only this way all the YANG rules can be= >> checked. >> >> Regards, >> Radek >> >> Dne 29.7.2017 v 12:06 Pieter Lewyllie (pilewyll) napsal(a): >>> I get the same results as Joe stated before. >>> >>> I=E2=80=99m wondering why YANGRE requires extra quotes to match with = the {3} >>> quantifier. >>> >>> Using the GUI: >>> >>> (([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3} matches >>> 192.1.1. on W3CGREP, but not on YANGRE ( yangre error: Invalid keywor= d >>> "3=E2=80=9D. ) >>> >>> '(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}=E2=80=99 ma= tches >>> 192.1.1. on YANGRE, but not on W3CGREP (which is expecting the =E2=80= =98 in the >>> test string) >>> >>> The same behaviour can be observed in the CLI, you just have to add >>> wrap the expressions with appropriate quotes. >>> >>> *Radek,* do you have an idea why the YANGRE fails with the quantifier= ? >>> Here are a couple of CLI examples that I observed: >>> yangre -p=20 >>> "(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-9]|[1-9]= [0-9 >>> ]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?" "192.168.0.1" >>> yangre error: Invalid keyword "3=E2=80=9D. >>> >>> /yangre -p=20 >>> "'(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-9]|[1-9= ][0- >>> 9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?'" =E2=80=9C192.1= 68.0.1=E2=80=9D >>> matches (no output) >>> >>> When inverting the quotes: (single quotes on the outside) >>> yangre -p=20 >>> '"(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-9]|[1-9= ][0- >>> 9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?"' "192.168.0.1" >>> yangre error: Invalid keyword >>> "(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-9]|[1-9]= [0-9 >>> ]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?=E2=80=9D". >>> >>> yangre -p=20 >>> '(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-9]|[1-9]= [0-9 >>> ]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?' "192.168.0.1" >>> yangre error: Invalid keyword "3". >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Pieter >>> >>> >>>> On 28 Jul 2017, at 20:23, Acee Lindem (acee) >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" >>> > >>>> Date: Friday, July 28, 2017 at 2:12 PM >>>> To: Acee Lindem > >>>> Cc: "Pieter Lewyllie (pilewyll)" >>> >, "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" >>>> >, "Mahesh Jethanandani= >>>> (mahesh)" >, RTG YANG Des= ign >>>> Team >,= >>>> Ing-Wher Chen >>> >, "Carl Moberg (camoberg)" >>>> >, YANG Doctors >>>> >, Henrik >>>> Levkowetz >, Rade= k >>>> Krej=C4=8D=C3=AD > >>>> Subject: Re: YANG Tool Requests =3D> regex validator >>>> >>>> >>>> https://yangcatalog.org/yangre doesn=E2=80=99t work for me, = no matter >>>> how I quote >>>> it. >>>> >>>> I tried with the inet:ipv4-address pattern and I did get thi= s >>>> to work with >>>> W3CGREP but not yangre no matter how I quoted it. For W3CGRE= P, >>>> I had to >>>> remove all the quoting and concatenation. This could be erro= r >>>> prone for a >>>> very complex pattern. >>>> >>>> Hmmm. This pattern from ietf-inet-types (note: I had the single >>>> quotes in the UI): >>>> >>>> =20 >>>> '(([0-9]|[1-9][0-9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5]).){3}([0-9]|[1-9= ][0- >>>> 9]|1[0-9][0-9]|2[0-4][0-9]|25[0-5])(%[\p{N}\p{L}]+)?' >>>> >>>> Works for me with this string (only with YANGRE): >>>> >>>> 192.168.1.1 >>>> >>>> Nope =E2=80=93 exact same pattern and test string fails for me. If I= unquote >>>> it, it works with W3CGREP. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Acee=20 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >> --=20 >> Radek Krejci >> mobile : +420 732 212 714 >> office : +420 234 680 256 >> e-mail : rkrejci@cesnet.cz >> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/radekkrejci >> >> CESNET, Association of Legal Entities >> Zikova 4 >> 160 00 Praha 6 >> Czech Republic >> >> From nobody Tue Aug 1 11:24:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7C111321F1; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 11:24:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Aug 2017 18:24:25.8972 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1476 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] [Netconf] last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 18:24:31 -0000 SGkgVG9tLA0KDQoNCj4gQ2hhbmdpbmcgdGhlIHN1YmplY3QgYmVjYXVzZSBteSB0YWNrIGlzIHNs aWdodGx5IGRpZmZlcmVudC4NCj4gDQo+IEkgY2Fubm90IHJlY29uY2lsZSB0aGlzIEktRCB3aXRo IG15IChtaXM/KXVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcgb2YgY3J5cHRvZ3JhcGh5Lg0KPiANCj4gU3RlcHBpbmcg 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Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:32:13 -0000 --001a1146c380d1e08c0555b63322 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > Thanks for your review. Below are my responses to your comments. > > Thanks, > Kent > > > -- > > Reviewer: Andy Bierman > Review result: Ready with Nits > > Review: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 > > Modules: > (M1) ietf-restconf-client@2017-07-03.yang > (M2) ietf-restconf-server@2017-07-03.yang > > > YANG Usage: > > I did not find anything wrong in either module. > pyang and yangdump-pro do not report any errors or warnings. > > Comments: > > C1: > > (M1) RESTCONF does not have sessions so the term "RESTCONF session" > needs to be defined > > > good point, in this case, it's actually the underlying transport > (TLS) that has a session. Fixed. But what about the 'max-sessions' leaf, > under 'listen', in both modules? - should this also be changed to talk > about the TLS session, or removed altogether? > > > I think you can change it to "transport session" or "TLS session" if the concept of session reconnect is is kept for RESTCONF > > C2: > > (M1) feature tls-initiate > (M1) feature tls-listen > (M2) feature tls-listen > (M2) feature tls-call-home > > Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST support > the TLS transport? > > the features themselves are needed, as we don't know what > clients/servers may support. > OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, listen). You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support, but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented. Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future versions could be different. Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors. It is not clear how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported. So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts: feature tls-listen { if-feature listen; ... } feature tls-listen { if-feature listen; ... } > the "tls" in the name of these features is likely unnecessary but > 1) maybe, someday, there will be another transport? and, 2) these names are > consistent with the names in the ssh modules, where there are both the > "tls" and "ssh" based feature names, and so make more sense there. > > > > C3: > > (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent/ > > RESTCONF has no session setup; It only has request and > response interactions. The purpose of reconnect, idle timeouts etc. > are completely up to the client application. > > > similar to the above, this is really meant to reflect the TLS > layer. It may not make too much sense for /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent. > That said, I think it's okay, in the sense that a real HTTPS client might > keep the underlying TLS session open across many HTTP-level interactions as > a performance optimization. What do you think? > > Change it to be TLS session > FWIW, it does *make* sense for /restconf-server/call-home/res > tconf-client/connection-type/persistent/. For instance, a client may > need to keep the call-home connection open in order to send messages to the > server when it needs to... > > > OK -- this may be more clear than hiding persistent in max-retries == unlimited > > C4: > > (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent/max-attempts > > What should the RESTCONF client do if a "Connection: close" > header is received from the server (indicating the server is dropping > the TCP connection) Should the reconnects proceed? > > I don't understand the question. The 'max-attempts' regards > testing the aliveness of a server that the client is already connected > to. But, assuming the client was configured to try to maintain a > persisted TLS connection, the client would immediately try to reconnect > to one of the configured RESTCONF servers. > OK -- this is how our server works. It does not make a special case for Connection: close. > > C5: > > (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ > > > "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that > the RESTCONF server may deliver messages pending for > the RESTCONF client. The RESTCONF server must close > the connection when it is ready to release it. > > This is not how RESTCONF works. > The RESTCONF server requires a request message in order to > send content to a client. I do not understand the use-case > for periodic RESTCONF sessions. > > Right, the server might be buffering data to send to > the client (e.g., logs). Maybe it's a wording issue? > > OLD > > server may deliver messages pending for the RESTCONF client > > NEW > > client can collect data (e.g., logs) from the RESTCONF server > > What do you think? > It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like logs > > > > > C6: > > (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ > (M2) /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/connection-type/ > periodic/ > > The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeouts. > The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The server should > not timeout an SSE response connection > > > Agreed, and the description statement for the 'idle-timeout' leaf > says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active are never > dropped. But here, under 'periodic', the whole point is to shed idle > connections. For instance, imagine a client that wants to collect logs > from a low-powered server once a day. What do you think? > > Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., end-time provided) I think this would have to be used by the client. This tells the server to drop the connection when the replay is complete. This is 1 exception -- another is close-session. POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF? > > C7: > > Sec 1.2 Tree Diagrams > > Old text should be replaced with reference to > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams-01 > > same comment as before. > > > OK -- wait for tree draft to be stable > > C8: > > (M1) IETF copyright says 2014; change to 2017 > (M2) IETF copyright says 2014; change to 2017 > > fixed. > > > > Nits: > > Some descriptions mention SSH. This should be removed from > this document. > > done. > > > The descriptions for choices that have only 1 case should > explain why a choice is being used. > > done. > > > The tree diagram shows the fully expanded groupings, > even many objects are in other drafts. I needed all 5 drafts > open in windows for searching, plus pyang tree output, > to really follow the data model structure. > > I know. Do you have a proposal? > > The external nodes cannot really use a prefix because they are pulled in from groupings, and technically in the same module namespace. I don't know if any changes to the tree diagram should be made for uses external-grouping. > > > The examples do not show any usage of the hello-params. > This would be useful because the namespace for the > identityref objects (tls-version, cipher-suite) is not > the same as the module that uses the grouping. > > Point taken. I sent Gary an email on this also. > > > > Note that the 'map-type' identityref is shown correctly encoded > in examples on page 19 and 20. > > not sure which draft you mean, but it's okay, I know how to prefex > identities. > > > > Andy --001a1146c380d1e08c0555b63322 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi Andy,

Thanks for your review.=C2=A0 Below are my responses to your comments.

Thanks,
Kent


--

Reviewer: Andy Bierman
Review result: Ready with Nits

Review: draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04

Modules:
=C2=A0(M1) ietf-restconf-client@2017-07-03.yang
=C2=A0(M2) ietf-restconf-server@2017-07-03.yang


YANG Usage:

=C2=A0I did not find anything wrong in either module.
=C2=A0pyang and yangdump-pro do not report any errors or warnings.

Comments:

C1:

=C2=A0(M1) RESTCONF does not have sessions so the term "RESTCONF sessi= on"
=C2=A0needs to be defined


<KENT> good point, in this case, it's actually the underlying tra= nsport (TLS) that has a session.=C2=A0 Fixed.=C2=A0 But what about the '= ;max-sessions' leaf, under 'listen', in both modules?=C2=A0 - s= hould this also be changed to talk about the TLS session, or removed altoge= ther?




I think you can change = it to "transport session" or "TLS session"
if= the concept of session reconnect is is kept for RESTCONF

=C2=A0

C2:

=C2=A0(M1) feature tls-initiate
=C2=A0(M1) feature tls-listen
=C2=A0(M2) feature tls-listen
=C2=A0(M2) feature tls-call-home

=C2=A0Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST support=
=C2=A0the TLS transport?

<KENT> the features themselves are needed, as we don't know what = clients/servers may support.


=
OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, liste= n).
You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-su= pport,
but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implement= ed.
Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future
versions could be different.

Also, recent YA= NG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested
nodes do n= ot inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors.=C2=A0 It is not clear
how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported.

<= /div>
=C2=A0So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts:

<= /div>
=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feat= ure listen;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0...
=C2=A0 }
=
=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-featu= re listen;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ...
=C2=A0 }


<KENT> the "tls" in the name of these features is likely un= necessary but 1) maybe, someday, there will be another transport? and, 2) t= hese names are consistent with the names in the ssh modules, where there ar= e both the "tls" and "ssh" based feature names, and so = make more sense there.



C3:

=C2=A0(M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent/=

=C2=A0RESTCONF has no session setup; It only has request and
=C2=A0response interactions. The purpose of reconnect, idle timeouts etc. =C2=A0are completely up to the client application.


<KENT> similar to the above, this is really meant to reflect the TLS = layer.=C2=A0 It may not make too much sense for /restconf-client/initiate/r= estconf-server/persistent.=C2=A0 =C2=A0That said, I think it's oka= y, in the sense that a real HTTPS client might keep the underlying TLS sess= ion open across many HTTP-level interactions as a performance optimization.= =C2=A0 What do you think?


Change it to be TLS session
=
=C2=A0
FWIW, it does *make* sense for /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-cli= ent/connection-type/persistent/.=C2=A0 For instance, a client may need= to keep the call-home connection open in order to send messages to the ser= ver when it needs to...



OK -- this may be more clear than hidi= ng persistent in max-retries =3D=3D unlimited

=C2= =A0

C4:

=C2=A0(M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/persistent/= max-attempts

=C2=A0What should the RESTCONF client do if a "Connection: close"=
=C2=A0header is received from the server (indicating the server is dropping=
=C2=A0the TCP connection) Should the reconnects proceed?

<KENT> I don't understand the question.=C2=A0 The 'max-attemp= ts' regards
testing the aliveness of a server that the client is already connected
to.=C2=A0 But, assuming the client was configured to try to maintain a
persisted TLS connection, the client would immediately try to reconnect
to one of the configured RESTCONF servers.

<= div>
OK -- this is how our server works. It does not make a s= pecial case for Connection: close.




C5:

=C2=A0(M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so = that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the RESTCONF server may deliver messages pending= for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the RESTCONF client.=C2=A0 The RESTCONF server m= ust close
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the connection when it is ready to release it.
This is not how RESTCONF works.
The RESTCONF server requires a request message in order to
send content to a client.=C2=A0 I do not understand the use-case
for periodic RESTCONF sessions.

<KENT> Right, the server might be buffering data to send to
the client (e.g., logs).=C2=A0 Maybe it's a wording issue?

OLD

=C2=A0 server may deliver messages pending for the RESTCONF client

NEW

=C2=A0 client can collect data (e.g., logs) from the RESTCONF server

What do you think?


It sh= ould be clear that the client would have to issue a GET or maybe POST
=
to initiate the sending of stored data like logs

<= div>=C2=A0




C6:

=C2=A0(M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ =C2=A0(M2)=C2=A0 /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/connection= -type/periodic/

=C2=A0The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeouts. =C2=A0The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The server shoul= d
=C2=A0not timeout an SSE response connection


<KENT> Agreed, and the description statement for the 'idle-timeou= t' leaf
says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active are never<= br> dropped.=C2=A0 But here, under 'periodic', the whole point is to sh= ed idle
connections.=C2=A0 For instance, imagine a client that wants to collect log= s
from a low-powered server once a day.=C2=A0 What do you think?



Notification replay has= a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., end-time provided)
I think= this would have to be used by the client.=C2=A0 This tells the server to d= rop
the connection when the replay is complete.

This is 1 exception -- another is close-session.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-sess= ion

Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF?




C7:

Sec 1.2 Tree Diagrams

Old text should be replaced with reference to
draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams-01

<KENT> same comment as before.




OK -- wait for tree dra= ft to be stable
=C2=A0

C8:

=C2=A0(M1) IETF copyright says 2014; change to 2017
=C2=A0(M2) IETF copyright says 2014; change to 2017

<KENT> fixed.



Nits:

Some descriptions mention SSH. This should be removed from
this document.

<KENT> done.


The descriptions for choices that have only 1 case should
explain why a choice is being used.

<KENT> done.


The tree diagram shows the fully expanded groupings,
even many objects are in other drafts. I needed all 5 drafts
open in windows for searching, plus pyang tree output,
to really follow the data model structure.

<KENT> I know.=C2=A0 Do you have a proposal?


The external nodes cannot really use a= prefix because they
are pulled in from groupings, and technicall= y in the same module namespace.
I don't know if any changes t= o the tree diagram should be made for
uses external-grouping.


=C2=A0


The examples do not show any usage of the hello-params.
This would be useful because the namespace for the
identityref objects (tls-version, cipher-suite) is not
the same as the module that uses the grouping.

<KENT> Point taken.=C2=A0 I sent Gary an email on this also.



Note that the 'map-type' identityref is shown correctly encoded
in examples on page 19 and 20.

<KENT> not sure which draft you mean, but it's okay, I know how t= o prefex identities.






Andy
=C2=A0

--001a1146c380d1e08c0555b63322-- From nobody Tue Aug 1 12:44:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893F812EC48; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:44:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VC5znih3t_rQ; Tue, 1 Aug 2017 12:44:14 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-0500 From: "Gary Wu (garywu)" To: Kent Watsen , Andy Bierman , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 Thread-Index: AQHTB+7XG4uCskNmz0G4+8XG9F6WsqJuuaaAgAESEYA= Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2017 19:44:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150128005005.20715.8994557350330588925@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.32.199.45] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <6AC5F7B131F98F4188469765838A86BA@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-03 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list 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X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0701MB2997 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] [Netconf] last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2017 10:20:23 -0000 Kent Mostly yes. I think the one further change that I would like is to move away from o An unordered list of pinned SSH host key sets... I think that the scope should be a public key, not limited to SSH and not restricted to what is referred to as a host key. Typically this would be in a client enabling it to trust a server to establish a secure channel which may then be used for further authentication. I see this as far more common than SSH. And since the scope is asymmetric cryptography, I would state the obvious in the Abstract This document defines a YANG module for a system-level mechanism, called a "keystore", containing security-sensitive data including private keys, pinned certificates, and public keys, such as pinned SSH host-keys, for use in asymmetric cryptography. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Watsen" Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 7:24 PM > Hi Tom, > > > Changing the subject because my tack is slightly different. > > > > I cannot reconcile this I-D with my (mis?)understanding of cryptography. > > > > Stepping back, I see two types of keys, symmetric where one key is used > > for encryption and decryption, and asymmetric, where there are two keys, > > public and private, mathematically related but impossible to derive one > > from the other, one used to encrypt, the other to decrypt. > > > > I see this I-D as solely concerned with asymmetric keys. > > Correct, though there was a time when we considered having a "password" > leaf, which would've been a form of a symmetric key. > > > > Public and private key pairs must be generated together, after which the > > private key must stay secret else you have no security. Public keys by > > contrast are public for all to know. The challenge is authenticating > > that the public key really is the public key of who you think it is. > > Most public keys arrive by certificates which then allow you to follow a > > chain thereof to a hopefully trustworthy trust anchor. SSH, and some > > other protocols, are different in distributing naked public keys and > > relying on some other means of authenticating them (e.g. Trust on First > > Use). > > Correct, though it's worth noting that SSH can also distribute X.509 certs > per RFC 6187. > > > > So when you say "AFAICT, the system should be able to generate its > > host-key from the private-key itself." that is at odds with my > > understanding and would lead to an absence of security. > > My mistake, I was using the old name "private-key" before we changed > it to just "key", and what I really meant to say was that the system > should be able to convert /keystore/keys/key/private-key into a > representation suitable for software consumption (e.g., an openssh > host-key file). > > > > When the I-D says, "that might be used to hold onto private keys > > and certificates "I struggle to see the point. Indeed, the > > module contains public keys as well as > > "leaf public-key { > > config false; > > mandatory true;" > > so you are really storing public/private key pairs (which may be > > generated on the box). > > That particular sentence, in the Abstract and Introduction, has been > rewritten based on Juergen's comments. The abstract now says: > > This document defines a YANG module for a system-level mechanism, > called a "keystore", containing security-sensitive data including > private keys, pinned certificates, and pinned SSH host-keys. > > The Introduction now says: > > This document defines a YANG [RFC7950] module for a system-level > mechanism, herein called a "keystore". The keystore provides a > centralized location for security sensitive data, as described below. > > This module has the following characteristics: > > o A configurable list of keys, each a public/private key pair. If a > key is used to sign a certificate signing request (CSR), which is > then signed by a certificate authority (CA), then the resulting > certificate may be configured as being associated with the key. > Keys are expected to be configured using standard configuration > mechanisms, however, to support hardware that generates keys, the > key may also be created via an action called 'generate-private- > key" action. Keys may also be preinstalled (e.g., a key > associated to an IDevID [Std-802.1AR-2009] certificate). > > o An unordered list of pinned certificate sets... > o An unordered list of pinned SSH host key sets... > o An action to request the server to generate a new key... > o An action to request the server to generate a CSR... > o A notification... > > Does this help? What "point" are you not seeing? > > > > The I-D also says "Certificates associated with this private key." > > which defeats me. A certificate or chain thereof gives me a public key, > > never a private one, and the means to authenticate the public key. > > Again, this goes back the old name "private-key" before we changed > it to just "key". I agree that it's wrong at face-value. Above you > can see how this text was changed. Now what it says makes more sense. > > > > A public key may or may not have a certificate or chain thereof. > > true. > > > > A TLS client would likely have both but will rarely have a private > > key. > > True, assuming client certificate based authentication is "rare". > > > > A server of any protocol (except SSH and such like) will have a > > public/private key pair and a certificate (and likely a chain thereof) > > to send to any enquiring client along with the public key. An SSH > > server would have a public/private key pair but likely no certificates. > > All true > > > > So, I cannot reconcile my understanding with the I-D. > > I think it was mostly due to the whole "private-key" to "key" rename > not having percolated through all the text yet. Yes? > > > > Tom Petch > > Kent > > > > > From nobody Wed Aug 2 14:37:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABEE2129ACD; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:37:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.012 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.012 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yeIR51XTHQ1m; Wed, 2 Aug 2017 14:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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23:47:42 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-keystore.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 Thread-Index: AQHS/tjFB6LSB6mMA0ixt1H16U9uU6Jbyb8AgAEruACAC1e7gIAAnl+AgAA4dACAAE3eAP//00kAgABFrwCABIqHgIAATTQAgAMwH4A= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2017 23:47:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <150028100874.32703.14161403810529927281@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170720165942.GB21506@elstar.local> <20170728073923.GA28870@elstar.local> <701F31A6-9941-4DE4-AE7E-00E859F103F8@juniper.net> <20170728154008.GA29865@elstar.local> <53886D3E-8A0C-4664-A7BD-1E708A80EE9D@juniper.net> <20170728170930.GA30054@elstar.local> <7079A8FA-A8C6-4677-9DBA-2A00637AD023@juniper.net> <20170731190640.GC32546@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20170731190640.GC32546@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 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elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id C214D40079FA; Thu, 3 Aug 2017 08:37:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 08:37:59 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-keystore.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170803063759.GC35265@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-keystore.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <20170720165942.GB21506@elstar.local> <20170728073923.GA28870@elstar.local> <701F31A6-9941-4DE4-AE7E-00E859F103F8@juniper.net> <20170728154008.GA29865@elstar.local> <53886D3E-8A0C-4664-A7BD-1E708A80EE9D@juniper.net> <20170728170930.GA30054@elstar.local> <7079A8FA-A8C6-4677-9DBA-2A00637AD023@juniper.net> <20170731190640.GC32546@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-keystore-02 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 06:38:05 -0000 On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 11:47:42PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Hi Juergen, > > > > > Yes, the host-key resides on the server, the public part of the host > > key may be stored on a client in a known-hosts file so that client can > > check whether it talks to the right server. So far so good. > > > > It seems /keystore/trusted-host-keys/trusted-host-key represents > > /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts (i.e. a _global_ known hosts list) and there > > is no way to learn the public known host key from a server via the > > YANG module. Can I request creation of a hew host key? There is > > generate-private-key but that seems to be more tied to X.509 stuff. > > The 'generate-private-key' action is no way meant to be just for X.509 > stuff. But I acknowledge that there might be a semantic-gap here. > For instance, if one wants to ask an SSH server to generate a new > host-key, one expects an API called something like 'generate-host-key' > (inside an SSH namespace, or as an action to the server instance), > rather than first generating the 'key' and then separately saying that > it's the host-key. I think that this could be caulked up to saying > that there is a base API layer and then, separately, higher level > layers that use it, but it's worth the discussion if it makes sense > at all... Sound complex and unclear to me. > > Note that this does not model ~/.ssh/known-hosts since the list is not > > on a per user account base. It would actually be the equivalence of a > > global /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts file. > > Not exactly. As it is undetermined who, or which models, point to the > keystore host-key lists. In some data models, it might be global and, > in others, user specific. OK, but very different from how implementations work (they tend to store account specific known host keys in account specific places). > >> > >> No, your system most likely does not use a keystore mechanism. For > >> instance, OpenSSL's `ssh-keygen` utility just writes to a local file. > >> We're doing something a little different here, which is a cause for > >> careful review (thanks again). Taking a step back, one of the drivers > >> for this keystore mechanism is to centralize the /trusted-host-keys > >> and /trusted-certificates, as these lists are referenced from many > >> locations. Less important to centralize are the private keys, as > >> the keys (always?) have a single use. The only reason for centralizing > >> the private keys is to give keys created via the generate-private-key > >> action a place to be listed before they are used for some purpose... > > > > The question is whether there is value to centralize beyond the > > differnet key systems. Is there really added value to try to treat SSH > > keys and X.509 in the same list infrastructure or are they at the end > > just different things? What about other keys, i.e., for signing DNS > > zones or RPKI keys? Is it useful to try to put all of these keys that > > serve different purposes into a common structure? The open source > > people maintaining software packages seem to keep things separate. Is > > Junos having such a centralized asymmetric keystore? How about IOS XR? > > Others? If not, why would a standard do this? > > JUNOS is not having a centralized keystore. I can't speak for IOS or > others, but I guess not. This model is suggesting a *conceptual* > keystore. As the keystore draft says: > > It is not required that a system has an operating system level > keystore utility to implement this module. > > But to your higher-lever question, is there value to treating such > various keys similarly, all I can say is that all such private keys > should be protected and, as such, the nacm:default-deny-all property > given here is apropos. > It is easy to specify nacm:default-deny-all on multiple branches. I am concerned about trying to create a unified asymmetric keystore that nobody really has experience with and that maintenance of it may become a real problem given that this would involve collaboration and coordination between multiple WGs in the IETF (ideally this work should be done by security WGs). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Aug 4 05:12:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7C212700F; Fri, 4 Aug 2017 05:12:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Typically this > > would be in a client enabling it to trust a server to establish a secure > > channel which may then be used for further authentication. I see this > > as far more common than SSH. > > Agreed. > > > And since the scope is asymmetric cryptography, I would state the > >obvious in the Abstract > > > > This document defines a YANG module for a system-level mechanism, > > called a "keystore", containing security-sensitive data including > > private keys, pinned certificates, and public keys, such as pinned SSH > > host-keys, for use in asymmetric cryptography. > > You're touching a point similar to what that Juergen raised. I think > the solution here is to refactor the ietf-keystore module into a base > module, which doesn't mention anything protocol-specific, and augmenting > modules that are protocol specific. If this were done, then the > abstract might read: > > This document defines a YANG module for a system-level mechanism, > called a "keystore", containing security-sensitive data, such as > asymmetric private keys. This document defines additional modules > that augment the base keystore module adding support for X.509 > and SSH. > > What do you think? Kent I doubt that it will clarify. My model is that are different ways of arriving at a public key but that once you have, then the cryptography is the same, with a choice of algorithms. If you are a SSH client, then likely you have a stash of public host keys associated with one or more SSH servers, and, apart from algorithms, no more. If you are a TLS client, then likely you are using X.509 and will have a pre-configured trust anchor, in the shape of a public key or a certificate (which may or may not be root). If you are a SSH server, then likely you will have stash of private/public key pairs, perhaps with constraints on their usage, and the ability to generate further private/public key pairs. If you are a TLS server, then you will have one or more X.509 certificates with your public keys, a chain of X.509 certificates back to an anchor that the client will trust, the corresponding private keys and perhaps the ability to generate a X.509 certificate with a public/private key pair; this may or may not chain back to a trusted root. There are other TLS options but I think that their usage is limited, but in the context of network management, one or more could be significant although I don't have a specific example in mind ( I like PAKE but do not see it in use). So the only part in common is what you do once you have the public key, which is not much. Tom Petch. > Kent > > > > > From nobody Tue Aug 8 16:57:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietf.org Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A265A1320BE; Tue, 8 Aug 2017 16:57:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Kent Watsen To: Cc: i2rs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150223663961.3605.4696763251648960641@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2017 16:57:19 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo-14 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2017 23:57:20 -0000 Reviewer: Kent Watsen Review result: Almost Ready YANG Doctor review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo-14 (by Kent Watsen) 4 modules are defined in the draft: - ietf-network@2017-06-30.yang - ietf-network-topology@2017-06-30.yang - ietf-network-state@2017-06-30.yang - ietf-network-topology-state@2017-06-30.yang No validation errors from either `pyang` or `yanglint`. 0 examples are defined in the draft. The -state modules appear to have all the correct changes from their base modules. Regarding ietf-network@2017-06-30.yang: - prefix “nd”, should be “nw”? (in IANA Considerations also) - “import ietf-inet-types” should have a ‘reference’ to RFC 6991 - remove “WG Chairs”, per the template in rfc6087bis-13 Appendix C. - s/Editor/Author/? (this is a preference choice) - defines ‘network-ref’ that is unused within module (it’s used by ietf-network-topology) - leafref paths don’t include prefix (rfc6087bis S4.2) Regarding ietf-network-topology@2017-06-30.yang: - prefix “lnk” should be “nt” or maybe “nwtp”? (in IANA Considerations also) - “import ietf-inet-types” should have a ‘reference’ to RFC 6991 - “import ietf-network” should have a ‘reference’ to RFC XXXX - remove “WG Chairs”, per the template in rfc6087bis-13 Appendix C. - s/Editor/Author/? (this is a preference choice) - defines grouping link-ref and tp-ref that are unused within module - mandatory true for source/dest-node/tp? - replace “tp” with “term-pt”? (both in “-tp” and “tp-“ uses) Regarding ietf-networ-statek@2017-06-30.yang: - similar comments to ietf-network@2017-06-30.yang: Regarding ietf-network-topology-state@2017-06-30.yang: - similar comments to ietf-network-topology@2017-06-30.yang. Comments on draft: 1) The document still has references to “server-provided”. Not the YANG leaf of course, but in general text. For instance “The model does allow to layer a network that is configured on top of one that is server-provided.” I think that the statement is more about values being in than how it was learned. All uses of “server-provided” should be examined for correctness. 2) This sentence doesn’t make sense to me, how can a server-provided model (you mean data?) access any information in conventional datastores?: “An implementation's security policy MAY further restrict what information the server-provided model is allowed to access in standard configuration data-stores,” Either way, this text likely should be moved to the Security Considerations section. 3) Should the last paragraph in Section 1 be removed now? Is the module expected to continue to update? 4) S4.1, P3: the text here says new data nodes are augmented in, but the YANG module itself says that only presence containers are allowed. 5) are the mandatory statement values set appropriately everywhere? (e.g., source-node?, source-tp?) 6) network-type is a presence container, not an identity? No where in the draft is there an example showing it being used. 7) Section 4.4.8., why not use identities? 8) S4.4.9 is a duplicate of some text in S4.1 9) This statement is true, but I think misleading in context. “YANG requires data nodes to be designated as either configuration or operational data, but not both”. It seems that the solution depends entirely on config true nodes, and NMDA to present the operational value of those config true nodes. Right? 10) When using , you should have a note to the RFC Editor to change the date to the date of publication, both in the filename as well as in the module’s ’revision’ statement. 11) IANA Considerations has comments “(RFC form)” - are these supposed to be notes to RFC Editor to replace with final RFC designation? 12) Your Security Considerations section should follow the template here: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines 13) create examples for the use-cases in Appendix A? Note, every draft should have examples of its YANG modules... Nits: - why reference RFC6991 in the Introduction? - replace “allows to define” with “enables the definition of” - in a few places, you refer to “network.yang”, but the file is called “ietf-network.yang”. - in a few places, you refer to “network-topology.yang”, but the file is called “ietf-network-topology.yang”. - replace “- X1 and X2 - mapping onto a single L3 network element” with “(X1 and X3) mapping onto a single L3 network element (Y2)” - replace “data-store” with “datastore” - replace “model” with “data model” where it’s not already. - replace “the datastore” with just “” - replace “the intended datastore” with just “” - update Section 2 to also include a reference to RFC 8174 (see RFC 8174) - pull the “datastore” term from the revised-datastores draft? - NETCONF and YANG don’t need to be terms/defined, since references to their RFCs are provided when they’re used. - s/the network.yang module/the “ietf-network” YANG module/ - your tree-diagram notation in S4.1 isn’t complete. And you duplicate it in S4.2. Create a top-level section called “tree diagram notation” that both sections reference? - s/allows to represent/allows representation of/ - s/another container/a presence container called/ - s/allows to define more/allows definition of more/ - s/allows also to represent/allows representation of/ - s/configuration and intended datastores/conventional datastores/ - s/and show up only/and thus only appear/ - /ietf-network:networks/network/network-id - being the list’s key, I was expecting this to the first element defined. - for the various leafrefs in both models, I see a lot of longish relative paths; suggest you change these to absolute paths if possible - /nd:networks/nd:network:/link/link-id is the list key but not the first leaf listed - incomplete sentence: “augmentations can in turn against augmenting modules” - s/need to specified/need to be specified/ - s/if the link-to-links mapping known/if the link-to-links mapping are known/ - s/each link known/each link are known/ - s/the operational datastore// - s/into the data model without relying/into without relying/ - s/in the following two companion modules/the following two companion modules/ - s/that represent a state model/to represent the operational state/ Thanks, Kent From nobody Tue Aug 8 23:56:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF896131EB2; 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i=@cisco.com; l=21798; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1502261781; x=1503471381; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=NfC1uJZna3u5K8vdOVwmQr1x/TXcGHZNuOAZwW70rMs=; b=Ri0Y1/lJOWuZySqszO2Dsc6TQgODfjFUTsJ1OGJ/XGt3wlDgY9v/Pdp7 WrIJ+6mjFmWc10AdtCvJw2Ht+iUhzS1/fsssHbctpMavutmNuBlttOH/A HzZ7DsRKFvQ+zBzR3GahJLdD1PmSd4jFOi/eWKH57uiuyBirL5w3sa4dn A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AAAQBgsYpZ/xbLJq1TCRoBAQEBAgEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEIAQEBAYQ+gRSOD3OhY4UzDoIEIQEMhDVkAoUyGAECAQEBAQEBAWsohRkCAQM?= =?us-ascii?q?BASFLCxAJAg4EMAICJyIOBgEMBgIBAReKFBCRDZ1kgiYniyoBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYMog06BYyuCfIQ9DBICgymCQh8FjAmUDYdTjGOCD4kzhw2?= =?us-ascii?q?JYYNBiGkfOIEKMiEIHBVJhUyBUD42h1MrghQBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,346,1498521600"; d="scan'208,217";a="653812902" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 09 Aug 2017 06:56:16 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.36] (ams-bclaise-nitro3.cisco.com [10.55.221.36]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v796uAve020218; Wed, 9 Aug 2017 06:56:10 GMT To: Kent Watsen , yang-doctors@ietf.org Cc: i2rs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo.all@ietf.org References: <150223663961.3605.4696763251648960641@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 08:56:10 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150223663961.3605.4696763251648960641@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CBFDE9068FA1A6BAC74FC4F2" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo-14 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2017 06:56:26 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------CBFDE9068FA1A6BAC74FC4F2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, Now implemented in the yangcatalog.org, we have the tree-type metadata. from https://github.com/xorrkaz/netmod-yang-catalog, to be published soon in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-clacla-netmod-model-catalog/ leaf tree-type { type enumeration { enum split { description "This module uses a split config/operational state layout."; } enum nmda-compatible { description "This module is compatible with the Network Management Datastores Architecture (NMDA) and combines config and operational state nodes."; } enum transitional-extra { description "This module is derived as a '-state' module to allow for transitioning to a full NMDA-compliant tree structure."; } enum openconfig { description "This module uses the Openconfig data element layout."; } enum unclassified { description "This module does not have a data element tree, or it does not belong to any category."; } enum not-applicable { description "This module is submodule."; } } description "The type of data element tree used by the module as it relates to the Network Management Datastores Architecture."; reference "draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines Guidelines for YANG Module Authors (NMDA) Happy to see that the two following I2RS modules are "nmda-compatible" https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-network,2017-06-30,ietf https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-network-topology,2017-06-30,ietf The following two are: transactional-extra https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-network-state,2017-06-30,ietf https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-network-state,2017-06-30,ietf We'll work on a nicer GUI later one. The key point for now: the tree-type metadata is populated. Regards, Benoit > Reviewer: Kent Watsen > Review result: Almost Ready > > > YANG Doctor review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo-14 (by Kent Watsen) > > > 4 modules are defined in the draft: > - ietf-network@2017-06-30.yang > - ietf-network-topology@2017-06-30.yang > - ietf-network-state@2017-06-30.yang > - ietf-network-topology-state@2017-06-30.yang > > No validation errors from either `pyang` or `yanglint`. > > 0 examples are defined in the draft. > > The -state modules appear to have all the correct changes > from their base modules. > > Regarding ietf-network@2017-06-30.yang: > - prefix “nd”, should be “nw”? (in IANA Considerations also) > - “import ietf-inet-types” should have a ‘reference’ to RFC 6991 > - remove “WG Chairs”, per the template in rfc6087bis-13 Appendix C. > - s/Editor/Author/? (this is a preference choice) > - defines ‘network-ref’ that is unused within module (it’s used by > ietf-network-topology) > - leafref paths don’t include prefix (rfc6087bis S4.2) > > Regarding ietf-network-topology@2017-06-30.yang: > - prefix “lnk” should be “nt” or maybe “nwtp”? (in IANA Considerations also) > - “import ietf-inet-types” should have a ‘reference’ to RFC 6991 > - “import ietf-network” should have a ‘reference’ to RFC XXXX > - remove “WG Chairs”, per the template in rfc6087bis-13 Appendix C. > - s/Editor/Author/? (this is a preference choice) > - defines grouping link-ref and tp-ref that are unused within module > - mandatory true for source/dest-node/tp? > - replace “tp” with “term-pt”? (both in “-tp” and “tp-“ uses) > > Regarding ietf-networ-statek@2017-06-30.yang: > - similar comments to ietf-network@2017-06-30.yang: > > Regarding ietf-network-topology-state@2017-06-30.yang: > - similar comments to ietf-network-topology@2017-06-30.yang. > > > Comments on draft: > > 1) The document still has references to “server-provided”. Not the YANG > leaf of course, but in general text. For instance “The model does allow > to layer a network that is configured on top of one that is server-provided.” > I think that the statement is more about values being in > than how it was learned. All uses of “server-provided” should be examined > for correctness. > > 2) This sentence doesn’t make sense to me, how can a server-provided model > (you mean data?) access any information in conventional datastores?: > “An implementation's security policy MAY further restrict what > information the server-provided model is allowed to access in > standard configuration data-stores,” > Either way, this text likely should be moved to the Security > Considerations section. > > 3) Should the last paragraph in Section 1 be removed now? Is the module > expected to continue to update? > > 4) S4.1, P3: the text here says new data nodes are augmented in, but > the YANG module itself says that only presence containers are allowed. > > 5) are the mandatory statement values set appropriately everywhere? > (e.g., source-node?, source-tp?) > > 6) network-type is a presence container, not an identity? No where in > the draft is there an example showing it being used. > > 7) Section 4.4.8., why not use identities? > > 8) S4.4.9 is a duplicate of some text in S4.1 > > 9) This statement is true, but I think misleading in context. “YANG > requires data nodes to be designated as either configuration or > operational data, but not both”. It seems that the solution depends > entirely on config true nodes, and NMDA to present the operational > value of those config true nodes. Right? > > 10) When using , you should have a note to the RFC > Editor to change the date to the date of publication, both in the > filename as well as in the module’s ’revision’ statement. > > 11) IANA Considerations has comments “(RFC form)” - are these supposed > to be notes to RFC Editor to replace with final RFC designation? > > 12) Your Security Considerations section should follow the template here: > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines > > 13) create examples for the use-cases in Appendix A? Note, every draft > should have examples of its YANG modules... > > > Nits: > > - why reference RFC6991 in the Introduction? > - replace “allows to define” with “enables the definition of” > - in a few places, you refer to “network.yang”, but the > file is called “ietf-network.yang”. > - in a few places, you refer to “network-topology.yang”, > but the file is called “ietf-network-topology.yang”. > - replace “- X1 and X2 - mapping onto a single L3 network element” > with “(X1 and X3) mapping onto a single L3 network element (Y2)” > - replace “data-store” with “datastore” > - replace “model” with “data model” where it’s not already. > - replace “the datastore” with just “” > - replace “the intended datastore” with just “” > - update Section 2 to also include a reference to RFC 8174 (see RFC 8174) > - pull the “datastore” term from the revised-datastores draft? > - NETCONF and YANG don’t need to be terms/defined, since references > to their RFCs are provided when they’re used. > - s/the network.yang module/the “ietf-network” YANG module/ > - your tree-diagram notation in S4.1 isn’t complete. And you duplicate > it in S4.2. Create a top-level section called “tree diagram notation” > that both sections reference? > - s/allows to represent/allows representation of/ > - s/another container/a presence container called/ > - s/allows to define more/allows definition of more/ > - s/allows also to represent/allows representation of/ > - s/configuration and intended datastores/conventional datastores/ > - s/and show up only/and thus only appear/ > - /ietf-network:networks/network/network-id - being the list’s key, > I was expecting this to the first element defined. > - for the various leafrefs in both models, I see a lot of longish > relative paths; suggest you change these to absolute paths if possible > - /nd:networks/nd:network:/link/link-id is the list key but not the > first leaf listed > - incomplete sentence: “augmentations can in turn against augmenting > modules” > - s/need to specified/need to be specified/ > - s/if the link-to-links mapping known/if the link-to-links mapping > are known/ > - s/each link known/each link are known/ > - s/the operational datastore// > - s/into the data model without relying/into without relying/ > - s/in the following two companion modules/the following two companion modules/ > - s/that represent a state model/to represent the operational state/ > > Thanks, > Kent > > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors --------------CBFDE9068FA1A6BAC74FC4F2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 
Reviewer: Kent Watsen
Review result: Almost Ready


YANG Doctor review of draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo-14 (by Kent Watsen)


4 modules are defined in the draft:
- ietf-network@2017-06-30.yang
- ietf-network-topology@2017-06-30.yang
- ietf-network-state@2017-06-30.yang
- ietf-network-topology-state@2017-06-30.yang

No validation errors from either `pyang` or `yanglint`.

0 examples are defined in the draft.

The -state modules appear to have all the correct changes
from their base modules.

Regarding ietf-network@2017-06-30.yang:
- prefix “nd”, should be “nw”?  (in IANA Considerations also)
- “import ietf-inet-types” should have a ‘reference’ to RFC 6991
- remove “WG Chairs”, per the template in rfc6087bis-13 Appendix C.
- s/Editor/Author/? (this is a preference choice)
- defines ‘network-ref’ that is unused within module (it’s used by
  ietf-network-topology)
- leafref paths don’t include prefix (rfc6087bis S4.2)

Regarding ietf-network-topology@2017-06-30.yang:
- prefix “lnk” should be “nt” or maybe “nwtp”? (in IANA Considerations also)
- “import ietf-inet-types” should have a ‘reference’ to RFC 6991
- “import ietf-network” should have a ‘reference’ to RFC XXXX
- remove “WG Chairs”, per the template in rfc6087bis-13 Appendix C.
- s/Editor/Author/? (this is a preference choice)
- defines grouping link-ref and tp-ref that are unused within module
- mandatory true for source/dest-node/tp?
- replace “tp” with “term-pt”?  (both in “-tp” and “tp-“ uses)

Regarding ietf-networ-statek@2017-06-30.yang:
- similar comments to ietf-network@2017-06-30.yang:

Regarding ietf-network-topology-state@2017-06-30.yang:
- similar comments to ietf-network-topology@2017-06-30.yang.


Comments on draft:

1) The document still has references to “server-provided”.  Not the YANG
leaf of course, but in general text.  For instance “The model does allow 
to layer a network that is configured on top of one that is server-provided.”
I think that the statement is more about values being in <operational>
than how it was learned.  All uses of “server-provided” should be examined
for correctness.

2) This sentence doesn’t make sense to me, how can a server-provided model
(you mean data?) access any information in conventional datastores?:
   “An implementation's security policy MAY further restrict what
   information the server-provided model is allowed to access in
   standard configuration data-stores,”
Either way, this text likely should be moved to the Security 
Considerations section.

3) Should the last paragraph in Section 1 be removed now?  Is the module
expected to continue to update?

4) S4.1, P3: the text here says new data nodes are augmented in, but 
the YANG module itself says that only presence containers are allowed.

5) are the mandatory statement values set appropriately everywhere?
(e.g., source-node?, source-tp?)

6) network-type is a presence container, not an identity? No where in
the draft is there an example showing it being used.

7) Section 4.4.8., why not use identities?

8) S4.4.9 is a duplicate of some text in S4.1

9) This statement is true, but I think misleading in context. “YANG 
requires data nodes to be designated as either configuration or 
operational data, but not both”. It seems that the solution depends
entirely on config true nodes, and NMDA to present the operational 
value of those config true nodes.  Right?

10) When using <CODE BEGINS>, you should have a note to the RFC 
Editor to change the date to the date of publication, both in the 
filename as well as in the module’s ’revision’ statement.

11) IANA Considerations has comments “(RFC form)” - are these supposed
to be notes to RFC Editor to replace with final RFC designation?

12) Your Security Considerations section should follow the template here:
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines

13) create examples for the use-cases in Appendix A?  Note, every draft
should have examples of its YANG modules...


Nits:

- why reference RFC6991 in the Introduction?
- replace “allows to define” with “enables the definition of”
- in a few places, you refer to “network.yang”, but the 
  file is called “ietf-network.yang”.
- in a few places, you refer to “network-topology.yang”, 
  but the file is called “ietf-network-topology.yang”.
- replace “- X1 and X2 - mapping onto a single L3 network element”
  with “(X1 and X3) mapping onto a single L3 network element (Y2)”
- replace “data-store” with “datastore”
- replace “model” with “data model” where it’s not already.
- replace “the <intended> datastore” with just “<intended>”
- replace “the intended datastore” with just “<intended>”
- update Section 2 to also include a reference to RFC 8174 (see RFC 8174)
- pull the “datastore” term from the revised-datastores draft?
- NETCONF and YANG don’t need to be terms/defined, since references
  to their RFCs are provided when they’re used.
- s/the network.yang module/the “ietf-network” YANG module/
- your tree-diagram notation in S4.1 isn’t complete.  And you duplicate
  it in S4.2.  Create a top-level section called “tree diagram notation”
  that both sections reference?
- s/allows to represent/allows representation of/
- s/another container/a presence container called/
- s/allows to define more/allows definition of more/
- s/allows also to represent/allows representation of/
- s/configuration and intended datastores/conventional datastores/
- s/and show up only/and thus only appear/
- /ietf-network:networks/network/network-id - being the list’s key, 
  I was expecting this to the first element defined.
- for the various leafrefs in both models, I see a lot of longish
  relative paths; suggest you change these to absolute paths if possible
- /nd:networks/nd:network:/link/link-id is the list key but not the
  first leaf listed
- incomplete sentence: “augmentations can in turn against augmenting
  modules”
- s/need to specified/need to be specified/
- s/if the link-to-links mapping known/if the link-to-links mapping
  are known/
- s/each link known/each link are known/
- s/the operational datastore/<operational>/
- s/into the data model without relying/into <operational> without relying/
- s/in the following two companion modules/the following two companion modules/
- s/that represent a state model/to represent the operational state/

Thanks,
Kent



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Z3JvdXBpbmcuDQoNCkFncmVlZC4NCiANCg0KDQo+IEFuZHkNCg0KS2VudA0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K DQo= From nobody Thu Aug 10 09:21:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 709BC13239E for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:21:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id va1BNbdEwxcX for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: 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[87.167.127.217]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k134sm6376408wmg.12.2017.08.10.09.21.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:21:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mehmet Ersue" To: "'YANG Doctors'" Cc: "'Dan Romascanu'" References: <007e01d2f019$eb5d13c0$c2173b40$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <007e01d2f019$eb5d13c0$c2173b40$@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:21:26 +0200 Message-ID: <031e01d311f4$b7b289e0$27179da0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_031F_01D31205.7B3F9FA0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKq4XgVZBJJ0TP8/31AhqTzCHStU6DOIpsA Content-Language: de Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Re-review of YANG Modules following the NMDA Guidelines WAS:RE: Fwd: Important: Guidelines for YANG module authors X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:21:36 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_031F_01D31205.7B3F9FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear YANG Doctors, =20 we think it is important that the YANG modules we are developing are = NMDA compliant. =20 If not done yet, please indicate the necessary actions needed for NMDA compliance on the review page of a draft. This is an essential help for the draft authors to get their document = final before IETF LC. =20 The review update can be entered on the draft review page under "Correct review". See the mail below for the documents you reviewed.=20 See the URL below for the reviews done so far: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/yangdoctors/reviews/?since=3Dall#close= d-rev iew-requests =20 Many Thanks for your kind efforts!! =20 Cheers, Mehmet (YANG Doctors Secretary) =20 From: yang-doctors [mailto:yang-doctors-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mehmet Ersue Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 4:22 PM To: 'YANG Doctors' Cc: 'Dan Romascanu' Subject: [yang-doctors] Re-review of YANG Modules following the NMDA Guidelines WAS:RE: Fwd: Important: Guidelines for YANG module authors =20 Dear YANG Doctors, =20 following Benoit's request I'm going to restart the review of the YANG modules listed below to achieve the NMDA compliance. Please use for your review the criteria and guidelines in: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines/ If there is any issue or unclear guideline we need to clarify this on = YANG Doctors maillist. =20 I would like to ask you to finish your review at the latest during or = right after the IETF week=20 so that we can give the draft authors feedback as early as possible (potentially during IETF #99). =20 Currently running reviews should already consider the NMDA guidelines.=20 These are: =20 draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l3-topology-09 Ladislav = Lhotka=20 =20 draft-ietf-rtgwg-device-model-02 Giles Heron=20 =20 draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-yang-01 Dean Bogdanovic=20 =20 draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-12 Kent Watsen=20 =20 =20 Below are the drafts which need to be re-reviewed by original reviewers. = - To enter your review result please click on the draft name (on the = page for closed reviews: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/yangdoctors/reviews/?since=3Dall#close= d-rev iew-requests) - Please use the button "Correct review" to enter the review results. - Please send an email to the authors AND YANG Doctors maillist. =20 = draft-ietf-pim-yang-00 Dean Bogdanovic Ready with Issues=20 NOTE: Publication requested, not yet in IETF LC, i.e. an urgent review = is very useful. =20 =20 draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-16 Giles = Heron Ready=20 NOTE: Already published. Review can be useful. =20 =20 draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-04 Andy Bierman Almost Ready=20 =20 draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-04 Bert Wijnen On the Right Track=20 =20 =20 draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l3-topology-02 Carl Moberg Ready with Issues=20 =20 draft-ietf-lime-yang-oam-model-08 Carl Moberg On = the Right Track=20 =20 draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-00Carl Moberg = On the Right Track=20 =20 draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-03 = Carl Moberg On the Right Track=20 =20 =20 draft-ietf-trill-yang-oam Jan = Lindblad On the Right Track=20 =20 draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-00 Jan Lindblad = Ready with Issues=20 =20 draft-ietf-pim-igmp-mld-yang-01 Jan Lindblad = On the Right Track=20 =20 =20 draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo-02 Kent Watsen Almost Ready=20 =20 draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-rip-02 Ladislav Lhotka Ready with Issues=20 =20 draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-key-chain-13 Ladislav Lhotka Almost Ready=20 =20 =20 draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo-08 Mahesh = Jethanandani Ready with Issues=20 =20 draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-07 Mahesh = Jethanandani Ready with Issues=20 =20 =20 draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model-02 Martin Bjorklund Not Ready=20 =20 draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model-02 Martin Bjorklund Ready with Issues=20 = draft-ietf-lmap-yang-05 Martin Bjorklund Ready with Issues=20 =20 =20 draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types Radek = Krej=E8=ED Ready with Nits=20 =20 draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-vrrp-01 Radek Krej=E8=ED Ready with Issues=20 =20 Many Thanks for your efforts. =20 Cheers, Mehmet =20 From: yang-doctors [ mailto:yang-doctors-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Benoit Claise Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:01 PM To: YANG Doctors < = yang-doctors@ietf.org>; Robert Wilton -X (rwilton - Ensoft Ltd at Cisco) < rwilton@cisco.com>; < = rtg-ads@ietf.org> < rtg-ads@ietf.org>; ops-ads@ietf.org Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Fwd: Important: Guidelines for YANG module authors =20 Dear YANG doctors, Thinking some more about it, I believe we want to review one more time = the already-reviewed YANG modules to flag whether they align with the = guidelines below. Background: the TEAS YANG module draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo, which = we're discussing now.=20 On this specific one, not only it's not aligned with the NMDA = guidelines, but he doesn't align with any of of the known YANG module structure, as = Rob mentioned: My comment actually relates to the fact the structure used by TE YANG modules don't match any other YANG modules - they are using their own = unique style of structure. Practically, it means that this YANG module will be hard to integrate. Regards, Benoit =20 Dear YANG doctors, Here is an important message for your YANG doctor reviews. Rob Wilton developed some tooling to help YANG module designers to transition to NMDA. Rob, would you mind explaining to everybody on this list, and maybe on = the NETMOD if you believe this is relevant for everybody. Regards, Benoit -------- Forwarded Message --------=20 Subject:=20 Important: Guidelines for YANG module authors Date:=20 Fri, 9 Jun 2017 15:56:39 +0200 From:=20 Benoit Claise To:=20 NETMOD Working Group Dear all, Now that the new NETMOD and NETCONF charters have been approved, it's = time to think about the guidelines for YANG module authors. The Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) addresses the = so-called "OpState problem" that has been the subject of much discussion in the = IETF. NMDA is still in development, and there will be a transition period = before NMDA solutions are universally available. The NETMOD Datastore Design Team and the Routing Yang Architecture = Design Team have worked with Alia and Benoit to create initial guidelines for = how the NMDA, as defined in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores, impacts Yang models. The draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines individual draft was foundational in helping creating those guidelines. =20 If you have questions or concerns on how these guidelines should apply = to work of interest, please contact your WG Chairs or ADs. =20 It is our strong recommendation, as ADs with agreement from the NETMOD = WG Chairs, that models SHOULD move as quickly as possible to the NMDA. The specific approach to be taken for models being developed now and during = the NMDA transition period should be based on both the expected usage and = the maturity of the data model. 1. New models and models that are not concerned with the operational = state of configuration information SHOULD immediately be structured to be NMDA-compatible. 2. Models that require immediate support for "in use" and "system = created" information SHOULD be structured for NMDA. Then derived versions of = these models SHOULD be created, either by hand or with suitable tools, that = follow the current modeling strategies. In some cases, the non-NMDA model may = be an existing model and not derived from the NMDA model. In all cases, the = NMDA and non-NMDA modules SHOULD be published in the same document, with NMDA modules in the document main body and the non-NMDA modules in an = Appendix. The use of the non-NMDA model will allow temporary bridging of the time period until NMDA implementations are available. The non-NMDA module = names should include '-state' appended. We would like to thank Kent Watsen, Lou Berger, Rob Wilton, Martin Bjorklund, Phil Shafer, Acee Lindem, Chris Hopps, Juergen Schoenwaelder, = and all others who helped develop these guidelines. Regards, Alia Atlas, Routing AD Deborah Brungard, Routing AD Alvaro Retana, Routing AD Warren Kumari, Operations & Management AD=20 Benoit Claise, Operations & Management AD =20 _______________________________________________ yang-doctors mailing list yang-doctors@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors =20 ------=_NextPart_000_031F_01D31205.7B3F9FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear YANG = Doctors,

 

we think it is important = that the YANG modules we are developing are NMDA = compliant.

 

If not done yet, please = indicate the necessary actions needed for NMDA compliance on the review = page of a draft.

This is an essential help for the draft authors = to get their document final before IETF LC.

 

The review update can be = entered on the draft review = page under “Correct = review”.

See the mail below for the documents you = reviewed.

See the URL below for the reviews done so far: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/yangdoctors= /reviews/?since=3Dall#closed-review-requests

 

Many Thanks for your = kind efforts!!

 

Cheers,

Mehmet

(YANG Doctors = Secretary)

 

From: = yang-doctors [mailto:yang-doctors-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Mehmet Ersue
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 4:22 = PM
To: 'YANG Doctors' = <yang-doctors@ietf.org>
Cc: 'Dan Romascanu' = <dromasca@gmail.com>
Subject: [yang-doctors] Re-review = of YANG Modules following the NMDA Guidelines WAS:RE: Fwd: Important: = Guidelines for YANG module authors

 

Dear YANG Doctors,

 

following Benoit’s = request I’m going to restart the review of the YANG modules listed = below to achieve the NMDA compliance.

Please use for your = review the criteria and guidelines in: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dsdt-nmda-gui= delines/

If there is any issue or unclear guideline we = need to clarify this on YANG Doctors maillist.

 

I would like to ask you = to finish your review at the latest during or right after the IETF week =

so that we can give the draft authors feedback = as early as possible (potentially during IETF = #99).

 

Currently running = reviews should already consider the NMDA guidelines. =

These are:

draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l3-topology-09 =           Ladislav Lhotka =

draft-ietf-rtgwg-device-model-02 &nb= sp;           Giles = Heron

draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-yang-01  &n= bsp;      =             &= nbsp;   Dean Bogdanovic

draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-12 &n= bsp;        Kent Watsen =

 

 

Below are the drafts = which need to be re-reviewed by original reviewers. =

- To enter your review result please click on = the draft name (on the page for closed reviews:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/yangdoctors= /reviews/?since=3Dall#closed-review-requests)

- Please use the button = “Correct review” to enter the review = results.

- Please send an email to the authors AND YANG = Doctors maillist.

 

draft-ietf-pim-yang-00 =             =             &= nbsp;   Dean Bogdanovic =             Ready = with Issues

NOTE: Publication requested, not yet in IETF LC, = i.e. an urgent review is very useful.

 

draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-16 =          Giles Heron =         Ready =

NOTE: Already published. Review can be = useful.

 

draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-04 &= nbsp;         Andy Bierman =    Almost Ready

draft-ietf-netconf-yang-push-04 =             &= nbsp;   Bert Wijnen        On = the Right Track

 

draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-l3-topology-02 =           Carl Moberg =       Ready with Issues =

draft-ietf-lime-yang-oam-model-08 &n= bsp;       Carl Moberg =       On the Right Track =

draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-methods-00Carl Moberg =             On = the Right Track

draft-ietf-lime-yang-connectionless-oam-03        Carl Moberg =       On the Right Track =

 

draft-ietf-trill-yang-oam =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;       Jan Lindblad =       On the Right Track =

draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-yang-00 =             &= nbsp;   Jan Lindblad       Ready with = Issues

draft-ietf-pim-igmp-mld-yang-01 &nbs= p;            Jan = Lindblad       On the Right Track =

 

draft-ietf-i2rs-yang-network-topo-02 = ;     Kent Watsen      Almost = Ready

draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-rip-02  &= nbsp;     =             &= nbsp;   Ladislav Lhotka Ready with Issues =

draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-key-chain-13 &= nbsp;        Ladislav Lhotka Almost = Ready

 

draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo-08  =             &= nbsp;   Mahesh Jethanandani Ready with Issues =

draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-07 =             &= nbsp;   Mahesh Jethanandani Ready with Issues =

 

draft-ietf-rtgwg-ni-model-02  &= nbsp;    =             &= nbsp;   Martin Bjorklund =              = Not Ready

draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model-02  =   =             &= nbsp;   Martin Bjorklund =              = Ready with Issues

draft-ietf-lmap-yang-05 =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;       Martin Bjorklund =              = Ready with Issues

 

draft-ietf-rtgwg-routing-types  = ;  =             &= nbsp;   Radek Krej=E8=ED       Ready = with Nits

draft-ietf-rtgwg-yang-vrrp-01  =    =             &= nbsp;   Radek Krej=E8=ED       Ready = with Issues

 

Many Thanks for your = efforts.

 

Cheers,

Mehmet

 

From: yang-doctors [mailto:yang-doctors-bounces@ietf.org] = On Behalf Of Benoit Claise
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 = 1:01 PM
To: YANG Doctors <yang-doctors@ietf.org>; Robert Wilton = -X (rwilton - Ensoft Ltd at Cisco) <rwilton@cisco.com>; <rtg-ads@ietf.org> <rtg-ads@ietf.org>; ops-ads@ietf.org
Subject: Re: = [yang-doctors] Fwd: Important: Guidelines for YANG module = authors

 

Dear YANG = doctors,

Thinking some more about it, I believe we want to review = one more time the already-reviewed YANG modules to flag whether they = align with the guidelines below.
Background: the TEAS YANG module = draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo, which we're discussing now.
On this = specific one, not only it's not aligned with the NMDA guidelines, but he = doesn't align with any of of the known YANG module structure, as Rob = mentioned:

My comment actually relates to the fact the = structure used by TE YANG modules don't match any other YANG modules - = they are using their own unique style of = structure.

Practically, it means that this YANG module will = be hard to integrate.

Regards, Benoit    =

Dear YANG = doctors,

Here is an important message for your YANG doctor = reviews.
Rob Wilton developed some tooling to help YANG module = designers to transition to NMDA.

Rob, would you mind explaining = to everybody on this list, and maybe on the NETMOD if you believe this = is relevant for everybody.

Regards, = Benoit

-------- Forwarded Message -------- =

Subject: =

Important: Guidelines for = YANG module authors

Date:

Fri, 9 Jun 2017 15:56:39 = +0200

From: =

Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>

To: =

NETMOD Working Group <netmod@ietf.org>=



Dear all,

Now that the new NETMOD = and NETCONF charters have been approved, it's time to think about the = guidelines for YANG module authors.

The Network Management = Datastore Architecture (NMDA) addresses the so-called "OpState = problem" that has been the subject of much discussion in the IETF. = NMDA is still in development, and there will be a transition period = before NMDA solutions are universally available.


The NETMOD Datastore = Design Team and the Routing Yang Architecture Design Team have worked = with Alia and Benoit to create initial guidelines for how the NMDA, as = defined in draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores, = impacts Yang models. The draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines individual = draft was foundational in helping creating those = guidelines.

 

If you have questions or = concerns on how these guidelines should apply to work of interest, = please contact your WG Chairs or ADs.

 

It is our strong = recommendation, as ADs with agreement from the NETMOD WG Chairs, that = models SHOULD move as quickly as possible to the NMDA. The specific = approach to be taken for models being developed now and during the NMDA = transition period should be based on both the expected usage and the = maturity of the data model.

1. New models and models that are not = concerned with the operational state of configuration information SHOULD = immediately be structured to be NMDA-compatible.

2. Models that = require immediate support for "in use" and "system = created" information SHOULD be structured for NMDA. Then derived = versions of these models SHOULD be created, either by hand or with = suitable tools, that follow the current modeling strategies. In some = cases, the non-NMDA model may be an existing model and not derived from = the NMDA model. In all cases, the NMDA and non-NMDA modules SHOULD be = published in the same document, with NMDA modules in the document main = body and the non-NMDA modules in an Appendix. The use of the non-NMDA = model will allow temporary bridging of the time period until NMDA = implementations are available. The non-NMDA module names should include = ’-state’ appended.

We would like to thank Kent = Watsen, Lou Berger, Rob Wilton, Martin Bjorklund, Phil Shafer, Acee = Lindem, Chris Hopps, Juergen Schoenwaelder, and all others who helped = develop these guidelines.

Regards,
Alia Atlas, Routing = AD
Deborah Brungard, Routing AD
Alvaro Retana, Routing = AD
Warren Kumari, Operations & Management AD
Benoit Claise, = Operations & Management AD

 

_______________________________________________

yang-doctors mailing list

yang-doctors@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors

 

------=_NextPart_000_031F_01D31205.7B3F9FA0-- From nobody Thu Aug 10 09:37:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED70132190 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:37:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lRihtFyM5ymd for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x229.google.com (mail-wr0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59C3F131CCF for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x229.google.com with SMTP id c24so5093598wra.1 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:37:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:thread-index :content-language; bh=N69di/KLCjtgQ8Vd6jsegiltcgq59SIoH9eCwzLK5Fc=; b=jkAIZPmX/0TaNGGhBqjAeEw3ds7am3rHiAGTSlPJfAm6wrPOe/VRr4b3Aqn2h5MjSr 0yT85JCgxcU/YxrWnrZSiJCgA+jaixfSTVOYYOfgXl3Cc/q2R1My6CfsuUFmFVKDE28f 2Vq2zQ8GTU2hjCz0dmgakRjroA1TRnaKbptP8Zv+yOKqRjrfLIDFi4SCbEOOt+uQS87C KDNiiqUt+Xz3/2pue5Zwr8HbJRW+kuko3/7knc5PfnjuL298+StfHqxeZ7AeWbZShRtG XSPmkMyrKIe/inHadaKnvNzVG6fI2AXdAR9pGBolmy/Y3aakwOQz4gqXZTiUhZiNP29t dIVQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version :thread-index:content-language; bh=N69di/KLCjtgQ8Vd6jsegiltcgq59SIoH9eCwzLK5Fc=; b=g6QDnCAnQvOSK8u0jHRGxvHDGSg8iBAbTSGfKUyT2gx4z5Eh2gttXOFAdLCcEUR058 Ni7ySaqZxw2/aFzpDDC/bosHT14y+STe+r6TKKdWjm4xykL2CHgtADAfNDTJYSsZVHSX tkYHHIcqUEZMV9FggdySJwoIr4G+KTklXI8jmfbQlh3ISKRa+Ygm3vZfcHod76oUgBmP aOXTUe7rvH7AlvxWcll7avm9TP6Ey3dj5qQo5ZrXmA3JDQPsHvO+dS0Tus5MeM3QX+a/ ConDsw2SfTWdReKm1eDSlOE1FaQgrlrPa4lToUgdC0yv5/XRynF81bz+gA/s1ijYuInY odbA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5jXjDjzZ+5AAY66ClJuIjcP+hsK013QZ76Y2X6MJpWDulTStNkZ PRzbK3peMc6rYVUa X-Received: by 10.223.147.97 with SMTP id 88mr9003884wro.226.1502383027654; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOPFLHJVQJ (p57A77FD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [87.167.127.217]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x4sm6885194wma.33.2017.08.10.09.37.06 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:37:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mehmet Ersue" To: "'YANG Doctors'" Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:37:05 +0200 Message-ID: <034b01d311f6$e7462fc0$b5d28f40$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_034C_01D31207.AAD08660" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AdMR9YccW8J99qLAQjyqgOU+XkmqbA== Content-Language: de X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 00000000C69E16B615ED5F4C9AF09728F866A19A0700C3B68E10F77511CEB4CD00AA00BBB6E600000000000D0000DA153A9D1E7DC94CB17CBADC7CDDA70F0000000087500000 Archived-At: Subject: [yang-doctors] Summary of Open review assignments for YANG Doctors X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:37:11 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_034C_01D31207.AAD08660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear YANG Doctors, Following YANG module reviews are pending on YANG Doctors page. As a few of them are on the list already a long time,=20 I would like to ask the reviewers to close the open reviews as soon as possible. Documents in Last call: Reviewer Draft Dean Bogdanovic draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14=20 Kent Watsen draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04=20 Kent Watsen draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-12 Early review requests: Reviewer Due Draft Dean Bogdanovic 2017-04-07 draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-yang-01=20 Giles Heron 2017-07-31 draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-11=20 Giles Heron 2017-04-28 draft-ietf-rtgwg-device-model-02 Next in the reviewer rotation: Martin Bjorklund (vac. till Aug 15) Radek Krej=C4=8D=C3=AD=09 Carl Moberg=09 Mahesh Jethanandani=09 Jan Lindblad=09 Thomas Nadeau=09 Ladislav Lhotka=09 J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder keystore Andy Bierman Skip next time Dean Bogdanovic ZT Kent Watsen Skip next time Giles Heron=09 Reshad Rahman=09 Thanks, Mehmet ------=_NextPart_000_034C_01D31207.AAD08660 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" 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<150128020275.20726.13027423171798327745@ietfa.amsl.com> <30CD19F8-6441-4EA3-A340-8CEDD6D4FD6A@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 09:48:40 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server.all@ietf.org" , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1308feffa148055668f7d1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:48:48 -0000 --94eb2c1308feffa148055668f7d1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Kent, On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > >>> Modules: > >>> (M1) ietf-restconf-client@2017-07-03.yang > >>> (M2) ietf-restconf-server@2017-07-03.yang > >>> > >>> Comments: > >>> > >>> C1: > >>> > >>> (M1) RESTCONF does not have sessions so the term "RESTCONF session" > >>> needs to be defined > >> > >> good point, in this case, it's actually the underlying > >> transport (TLS) that has a session. Fixed. But what about the > >> 'max-sessions' leaf, under 'listen', in both modules? - should > >> this also be changed to talk about the TLS session, or removed > >> altogether? > > > > I think you can change it to "transport session" or "TLS session" > > if the concept of session reconnect is is kept for RESTCONF > > Fixed in my local copy. > > > >>> C2: > >>> > >>> (M1) feature tls-initiate > >>> (M1) feature tls-listen > >>> (M2) feature tls-listen > >>> (M2) feature tls-call-home > >>> > >>> Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST support > >>> the TLS transport? > >> > >> the features themselves are needed, as we don't know what > >> clients/servers may support. > >> > > OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, listen). > > You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support, > > but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented. > > Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future > > versions could be different. > > I added this to the description statement of the 'tls-listen' and > 'tls-initiate' features: > > Currently TLS is the only transport supported by RESTCONF, > this feature helps support possible future transports."; > If you are trying to say that TLS might not be the mandatory-to-implement transport, this sentence is not quite right. You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance. We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and "purely optional, server developer's choice". We have nothing like conditionally mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , then the listen-tls feature MUST be supported." The when-stmt can be used to provide this conditionally-mandatory conformance, but it has to be customized for each data subtree. It is more expensive than if-feature on many levels. > and I also added a design note into the draft itself. > > > > Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested > > nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors. It is not clear > > how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported. > > Wait, seriously? I didn't see that. I don't understand how else nested > if-feature statements can be interpreted. Can you point to the thread > where this was discussed? > > I cannot find it now. Essentially, features are not coupled to objects: container foo { if-feature A; container foo2 { if-feature AA; } } container bar { if-feature AA; } The designer has to decide: Does feature AA depend on A, or just container foo2 depends on container foo? Does an external subtree (like /bar) depend on both features or can they be used independently? In this case I think the intent is to support feature listen if any transport is supported, and feature listen- is a specific transport is supported, so the if-feature inside the 2nd feature is correct. > > > So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts: > > > > feature tls-listen { > > if-feature listen; > > ... > > } > > > > feature tls-listen { > > if-feature listen; > > ... > > } > > I went ahead and made this change, it seems better. > > > > >>> C3: > > > > Change it to be TLS session > > Done. > > > > >>> C4: > > > > OK -- this is how our server works. It does not make a special case for > Connection: close. > > Correct. > > > > >>> C5: > > > > It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET or maybe > POST > > to initiate the sending of stored data like logs > > Okay, how about this? > > "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that, > e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs) > from the RESTCONF server. The RESTCONF client must > close the connection when it is ready to release it. > Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client > restarts its timer until the next connection."; > > > Not sure this is needed. RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2nd sentence. > > >>>C6: > >>> > >>> (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ > >>> (M2) /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/connection- > type/periodic/ > >>> > >>> The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeouts. > >>> The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The server should > >>> not timeout an SSE response connection > >> > >> Agreed, and the description statement for the 'idle-timeout' leaf > >> says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active are never > >> dropped. But here, under 'periodic', the whole point is to shed idle > >> connections. For instance, imagine a client that wants to collect logs > >> from a low-powered server once a day. What do you think? > > > > Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., end-time > provided) > > I think this would have to be used by the client. This tells the server > to drop > > the connection when the replay is complete. > > Sure, but keep in mind that logs are just an example, there could be other > data-collection mechanisms. Still, note that when end-time provided is > reached, the line would become idle, if it didn't drop. This seems like a > more generic mechanism. > > > > This is 1 exception -- another is close-session. > > > > POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session > > > > Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF? > > First, I don't view the above as an exception. With regards to 'close- > session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF? - and is this actually > an issue for RFC 8040? > > RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation resources. It is left as an implementation detail. Our server treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a NETCONF operation like is granted and then released right afterwards by the server because the session is terminated. I think any standard behavior for application layer sessions would need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF. > > > >>> C7: > >>> > >>> Sec 1.2 Tree Diagrams > >>> > >>> Old text should be replaced with reference to > >>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams-01 > >> > >> same comment as before. > > > > OK -- wait for tree draft to be stable > > Yep. > > > >>> Nits: > >>> > >>> The tree diagram shows the fully expanded groupings, > >>> even many objects are in other drafts. I needed all 5 drafts > >>> open in windows for searching, plus pyang tree output, > >>> to really follow the data model structure. > >> > >> I know. Do you have a proposal? > > > > The external nodes cannot really use a prefix because they > > are pulled in from groupings, and technically in the same module > > namespace. I don't know if any changes to the tree diagram > > should be made for uses external-grouping. > > Agreed. > > > > > Andy > > Kent > > > Andy --94eb2c1308feffa148055668f7d1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Kent,


On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@ju= niper.net> wrote:
Hi Andy,=

>>> Modules:
>>>=C2=A0 (M1) ietf-restconf-client@2017-07-03.yang
>>>=C2=A0 (M2) ietf-restconf-server@2017-07-03.yang
>>>
>>> Comments:
>>>
>>> C1:
>>>
>>> (M1) RESTCONF does not have sessions so the term "RESTCON= F session"
>>> needs to be defined
>>
>> <KENT> good point, in this case, it's actually the under= lying
>> transport (TLS) that has a session.=C2=A0 Fixed.=C2=A0 But what ab= out the
>> 'max-sessions' leaf, under 'listen', in both modul= es?=C2=A0 - should
>> this also be changed to talk about the TLS session, or removed
>> altogether?
>
> I think you can change it to "transport session" or "TL= S session"
> if the concept of session reconnect is is kept for RESTCONF

Fixed in my local copy.


>>> C2:
>>>
>>> (M1) feature tls-initiate
>>> (M1) feature tls-listen
>>> (M2) feature tls-listen
>>> (M2) feature tls-call-home
>>>
>>> Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST = support
>>> the TLS transport?
>>
>> <KENT> the features themselves are needed, as we don't k= now what
>> clients/servers may support.
>>
> OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, liste= n).
> You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support, > but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented.
> Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future
> versions could be different.

I added this to the description statement of the 'tls-listen' and 'tls-initiate' features:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Currently TLS is the only transport supported by RESTC= ONF,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this feature helps support possible future transports.= ";


If you are tryin= g to say that TLS might not be the mandatory-to-implement
transpo= rt, this sentence is not quite right.

You know I a= m not a big fan of YANG conformance.
We have nothing in between &= quot;always mandatory" and "purely optional,
server dev= eloper's choice".=C2=A0 We have nothing like conditionally
mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , then<= br>
the listen-tls feature MUST be supported."
The when-stmt can be used to provide this conditionally-mandato= ry conformance,
but it has to be customized for each data subtree= . It is more expensive than if-feature
on many levels.
=


and I also added a design note into the draft itself.


> Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested<= br> > nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors.=C2=A0 It is no= t clear
> how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported.

Wait, seriously? I didn't see that.=C2=A0 I don't understand how el= se nested
if-feature statements can be interpreted.=C2=A0 Can you point to the thread=
where this was discussed?


I cannot find it now.
Essent= ially, features are not coupled to objects:

=C2=A0= container foo {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature A;
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container foo2 {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-= feature AA;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 }
=C2=A0 container bar {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-featur= e AA;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

The designer has to= decide:
Does feature AA depend on A, or just container foo2 depe= nds on container foo?
Does an external subtree (like /bar) depend= on both features or can they be used independently?

In this case I think the intent is to support feature listen if any tran= sport is supported,
and feature listen-<transport> is a spe= cific transport is supported, so the if-feature
inside the 2nd fe= ature is correct.




> So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts:
>
>=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature listen;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0...
>=C2=A0 }
>
>=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-feature listen;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ...
>=C2=A0 }

I went ahead and made this change, it seems better.



>>> C3:
>
> Change it to be TLS session

Done.



>>> C4:
>
> OK -- this is how our server works. It does not make a special case fo= r Connection: close.

Correct.



>>> C5:
>
> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET or maybe = POST
> to initiate the sending of stored data like logs

Okay, how about this?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that, =C2=A0 =C2=A0 e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 from the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 The RESTCONF client must
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 close the connection when it is ready to release it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restarts its timer until the next connection.";



Not sure this is needed.
RES= TCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated by the client= ,
but if that changes, then no reason to constrain this text. I w= ould change
'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2nd sentenc= e.

=C2=A0

>>>C6:
>>>
>>> (M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/peri= odic/
>>> (M2)=C2=A0 /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/con= nection-type/periodic/
>>>
>>> The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeo= uts.
>>> The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The serve= r should
>>> not timeout an SSE response connection
>>
>> <KENT> Agreed, and the description statement for the 'id= le-timeout' leaf
>> says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active a= re never
>> dropped.=C2=A0 But here, under 'periodic', the whole point= is to shed idle
>> connections.=C2=A0 For instance, imagine a client that wants to co= llect logs
>> from a low-powered server once a day.=C2=A0 What do you think?
>
> Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., end-time= provided)
> I think this would have to be used by the client.=C2=A0 This tells the= server to drop
> the connection when the replay is complete.

Sure, but keep in mind that logs are just an example, there could be other<= br> data-collection mechanisms.=C2=A0 Still, note that when end-time provided i= s
reached, the line would become idle, if it didn't drop.=C2=A0 This seem= s like a
more generic mechanism.


> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session<= br> >
> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF?

First, I don't view the above as an exception.=C2=A0 With regards to &#= 39;close-
session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF?=C2=A0 - and is this = actually
an issue for RFC 8040?



RESTCONF does not speci= fy any behavior for specific operation resources.
It is left as a= n implementation detail.=C2=A0 Our server treats each RESTCONF request
as a new management session, so a NETCONF operation like <lock>= is granted
and then released right afterwards by the server beca= use the session is terminated.
I think any standard behavior for = application layer sessions would need to be defined
in a new vers= ions of RESTCONF.





=C2=A0


>>> C7:
>>>
>>> Sec 1.2 Tree Diagrams
>>>
>>> Old text should be replaced with reference to
>>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams-01
>>
>> <KENT> same comment as before.
>
> OK -- wait for tree draft to be stable

Yep.


>>> Nits:
>>>
>>> The tree diagram shows the fully expanded groupings,
>>> even many objects are in other drafts. I needed all 5 drafts >>> open in windows for searching, plus pyang tree output,
>>> to really follow the data model structure.
>>
>> <KENT> I know.=C2=A0 Do you have a proposal?
>
> The external nodes cannot really use a prefix because they
> are pulled in from groupings, and technically in the same module
> namespace. I don't know if any changes to the tree diagram
> should be made for uses external-grouping.

Agreed.



> Andy

Kent



Andy

=C2=A0

--94eb2c1308feffa148055668f7d1-- From nobody Thu Aug 10 18:58:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7C01127077 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:58:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id er7NpHFR2Fje for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82AD1126E64 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id i66so36312118wmg.0 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:58:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=10mfirtppUah9btkhqTfHYyfeWGrzPjTvx2gvpwfTpE=; b=Ia/vLzLMrA04BJyBzFXtRgBWFK6pe1SrQfcA8IDtfAVHFy8BumCh4EQtlpOlCt3FEZ nGTe0GzKOpYFks5ydOVezp5GXvUPANQrMWCKonwZJM6z9M6kY05tCt6vfkJQ0dA5a09r lkyv7OgHHd51Ox89a/6BF6mnGZgd+i/HycwIPgqX3Gg8J+yYeUMMYyVM2KSRA37zRdGo 0d3vbvoTGsTs2vhRs4ccrsGGfqKYgLbYW8stmUqoyPyxCOwG22LQvnMTNLl2SYz5TuT7 3kfm3sRD10gh1FDiKt/EeC2XwejpE10YRQDEGOO4REDYqRwHidkp9vctH0XYti0tGFMb Gklw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=10mfirtppUah9btkhqTfHYyfeWGrzPjTvx2gvpwfTpE=; b=hws6yP7CXDCCqKJSMBs2vsm5JU/OqpcOYfzWNPUreo8vKID6+xWoQkYI1CqpJXFMHI Hn5zXL9QkSBSQKybDikP/cFLA4PNLc2R5EBwZ9PZE4rvbJ3eHx+pgTmu/Gms1l3QjsZp ORDSGI7r7YbNF1j0TRzv9tv9PsAd98DvB7cmcA2yGaeXXNfigzECuhCg4qvVfDhYAOXB PIy73kscQ8qfK8yW6xSZJNjU/gE3v4XpI3cwf6EycoGV71yeYcc8SVkTLagZrZpoihQs md5+OaWCYm+gAZV5fDtSGORYQN9pB2rlOLB/gvAL6dnZwH+5k9WD1zEmPcoVpyiqs1gy RAig== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5jGe/hjwkys5VZ5OulcTP3wa0Rq6j9u3+EI6NWo0GAITBYhff48 zc3MgVLBASl9crUW8ASEV/U9E88mNJCq X-Received: by 10.28.159.133 with SMTP id i127mr7993499wme.172.1502416684083; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:58:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.160 with HTTP; Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:58:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <034b01d311f6$e7462fc0$b5d28f40$@gmail.com> References: <034b01d311f6$e7462fc0$b5d28f40$@gmail.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:58:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mehmet Ersue Cc: YANG Doctors Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114545fcc28109055670a4c6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Summary of Open review assignments for YANG Doctors X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 01:58:07 -0000 --001a114545fcc28109055670a4c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, You don't need to skip next time for me. It all averages out in the end. Maybe next time I will get an easy one and somebody else will get a really big module. Andy On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Mehmet Ersue wrote: > Dear YANG Doctors, > > Following YANG module reviews are pending on YANG Doctors page. > As a few of them are on the list already a long time, > I would like to ask the reviewers to close the open reviews as soon as > possible. > > Documents in Last call: > > Reviewer Draft > Dean Bogdanovic draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 > Kent Watsen draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04 > Kent Watsen draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-12 > > Early review requests: > > Reviewer Due Draft > Dean Bogdanovic 2017-04-07 draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-yang-01 > Giles Heron 2017-07-31 draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-11 > Giles Heron 2017-04-28 draft-ietf-rtgwg-device-model-02 > > > Next in the reviewer rotation: > > Martin Bjorklund (vac. till Aug 15) > Radek Krej=C4=8D=C3=AD > Carl Moberg > Mahesh Jethanandani > Jan Lindblad > Thomas Nadeau > Ladislav Lhotka > J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder keystore > Andy Bierman Skip next time > Dean Bogdanovic ZT > Kent Watsen Skip next time > Giles Heron > Reshad Rahman > > Thanks, > Mehmet > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > > --001a114545fcc28109055670a4c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

You don't need to skip next tim= e for me.
It all averages out in the end. Maybe next time I will = get an easy one
and somebody else will get a really big module.


Andy


On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at= 9:37 AM, Mehmet Ersue <mersue@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear YANG Doctors,

Following YANG module reviews are pending on YANG Doctors page.
As a few of them are on the list already a long time,
I would like to ask the reviewers to close the open reviews as soon as
possible.

Documents in Last call:

Reviewer=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Draft
Dean Bogdanovic=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14
Kent Watsen=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-netconf-rfc= 6536bis-04
Kent Watsen=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-netmod-sysl= og-model-12

Early review requests:

Reviewer=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Due=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Draft
Dean Bogdanovic=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2017-04-07 draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-y= ang-01
Giles Heron=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2017-07-31 draft-ietf-= i2rs-rib-info-model-11
Giles Heron=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2017-04-28 draft-ietf-= rtgwg-device-model-02


Next in the reviewer rotation:

Martin Bjorklund=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (vac. till Aug 15)
Radek Krej=C4=8D=C3=AD
Carl Moberg
Mahesh Jethanandani
Jan Lindblad
Thomas Nadeau
Ladislav Lhotka
J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 keystore
Andy Bierman=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Skip next time
Dean Bogdanovic ZT
Kent Watsen=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Skip next time
Giles Heron
Reshad Rahman

Thanks,
Mehmet


_______________________________________________
yang-doctors mailing list
yang-doctors@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-do= ctors


--001a114545fcc28109055670a4c6-- From nobody Fri Aug 11 04:33:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941D21274D2 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 04:33:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AGEaumUkk3sL for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 04:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3B111243F6 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 04:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id k20so1860880wmg.0 for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 04:33:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=0FnFmk7lu70gLWW56IVdBHTTfENayLz1RkT325svUws=; b=u8NwfA2Ryab0ts3joUJbQJx68llxU6VOGX/5Jpol4RzWhOsfGrdbhenprB7VEB+lSR D2+Y19GXEmFlOj3/KctiHQIfqb3zyq0fEtQi6WEscEN6J1I971f7t5XZj2Rq0oGba6kP VJlrhEt24/fokKPOj2MPq5wvRK3eH68SY8peFlDHVTlVvpyLU76zQRkKCMuaGRS1zG06 hZnYmvSi2DMuF5m87ntqHR0OVlBUgjTRwqx7mD36dLmGpNgvaxWY+gXN8KohiGjLJrsU TxZS5N3FKD/Q+2kVtKBsnzaT4Fdrk+JaiuHTgTMymfbx6K5gDiiKN4BRiA8EfsbpcSYF GShw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date :message-id:mime-version:thread-index:content-language; bh=0FnFmk7lu70gLWW56IVdBHTTfENayLz1RkT325svUws=; b=khosEnJl+w5LSuuRkH/jrMkNoj9LqjFl+83DWs3MlVU2grzpAkwJkJ7dQwHoup1n/P CEVVrQKG21V38Kfqa8OWzZYleG3/umT7P3vFI+4XV236UAZLkE2bsOhFxi0ngz32zTdb w/FrAudjjjVS4nNaRlDR+v8L9f8kCSxWxQJieKS4eZt5Jil5fjNCgRk6twN9dy6yLjPX NRR819kv/v32IGl0hnBrKlJS5Ef8YDMk4cxPX5Bn6z6F6I8oneQcvx0f72daKRDF95EP NAzY09+ZVXDCWM549BmsoyUx9M1DIajlEhrEWlvjZsCVFeU61t4OqQEQPUz6meCF68Rc 6ZgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5jJVczibdwSgebRe4HLmOGUMg1kNIkytN6gmW4DHw5tSrMqmAOK p479XE7nFmEh28Tl X-Received: by 10.28.15.75 with SMTP id 72mr8719849wmp.177.1502451186228; Fri, 11 Aug 2017 04:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DESKTOPFLHJVQJ (p57A772EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [87.167.114.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 80sm968012wml.23.2017.08.11.04.33.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Aug 2017 04:33:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mehmet Ersue" To: "'Andy Bierman'" Cc: "'YANG Doctors'" References: <034b01d311f6$e7462fc0$b5d28f40$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:33:04 +0200 Message-ID: <007801d31295$9975d620$cc618260$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0079_01D312A6.5D007AE0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQFlQNTejd5CpOSYMZtg7jhhQr+NRAKrQxTho0VPY3A= Content-Language: de Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Summary of Open review assignments for YANG Doctors X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:33:11 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01D312A6.5D007AE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fine. Thank you! =20 Cheers, Mehmet =20 From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]=20 Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 3:58 AM To: Mehmet Ersue Cc: YANG Doctors Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Summary of Open review assignments for YANG = Doctors =20 Hi, =20 You don't need to skip next time for me. It all averages out in the end. Maybe next time I will get an easy one and somebody else will get a really big module. =20 =20 Andy =20 =20 On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Mehmet Ersue > wrote: Dear YANG Doctors, Following YANG module reviews are pending on YANG Doctors page. As a few of them are on the list already a long time, I would like to ask the reviewers to close the open reviews as soon as possible. Documents in Last call: Reviewer Draft Dean Bogdanovic draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14 Kent Watsen draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04 Kent Watsen draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-12 Early review requests: Reviewer Due Draft Dean Bogdanovic 2017-04-07 draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-yang-01 Giles Heron 2017-07-31 draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-11 Giles Heron 2017-04-28 draft-ietf-rtgwg-device-model-02 Next in the reviewer rotation: Martin Bjorklund (vac. till Aug 15) Radek Krej=C4=8D=C3=AD Carl Moberg Mahesh Jethanandani Jan Lindblad Thomas Nadeau Ladislav Lhotka J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder keystore Andy Bierman Skip next time Dean Bogdanovic ZT Kent Watsen Skip next time Giles Heron Reshad Rahman Thanks, Mehmet _______________________________________________ yang-doctors mailing list yang-doctors@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0079_01D312A6.5D007AE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Fine. Thank you!

 

Cheers,

Mehmet

 

From: Andy = Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]
Sent: Friday, August 11, = 2017 3:58 AM
To: Mehmet Ersue = <mersue@gmail.com>
Cc: YANG Doctors = <yang-doctors@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] = Summary of Open review assignments for YANG = Doctors

 

Hi,

 

You don't need to skip next time for = me.

It all averages out in = the end. Maybe next time I will get an easy = one

and somebody else will = get a really big module.

 

 

Andy

 

 

On Thu, = Aug 10, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Mehmet Ersue <mersue@gmail.com> = wrote:

Dear YANG Doctors,

Following YANG = module reviews are pending on YANG Doctors page.
As a few of them are = on the list already a long time,
I would like to ask the reviewers to = close the open reviews as soon as
possible.

Documents in Last = call:

Reviewer              =  Draft
Dean Bogdanovic        = draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-14
Kent Watsen      =       draft-ietf-netconf-rfc6536bis-04
Kent = Watsen            = draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-12

Early review = requests:

Reviewer            =    Due        Draft
Dean = Bogdanovic        2017-04-07 = draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-yang-01
Giles Heron        =     2017-07-31 draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model-11
Giles = Heron            2017-04-28 = draft-ietf-rtgwg-device-model-02


Next in the reviewer = rotation:

Martin Bjorklund        (vac. till = Aug 15)
Radek Krej=C4=8D=C3=AD
Carl Moberg
Mahesh = Jethanandani
Jan Lindblad
Thomas Nadeau
Ladislav = Lhotka
J=C3=BCrgen Sch=C3=B6nw=C3=A4lder      = keystore
Andy Bierman    Skip next time
Dean Bogdanovic = ZT
Kent Watsen     Skip next time
Giles = Heron
Reshad = Rahman

Thanks,
Mehmet


______________________________= _________________
yang-doctors mailing list
yang-doctors@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors<= o:p>

 

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boundary="94eb2c1308fe66cf070556c12de7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors last call review of draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-client-server-04 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 02:03:01 -0000 --94eb2c1308fe66cf070556c12de7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > >>>> C2: > >>>> > >>>> (M1) feature tls-initiate > >>>> (M1) feature tls-listen > >>>> (M2) feature tls-listen > >>>> (M2) feature tls-call-home > >>>> > >>>> Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server MUST support > >>>> the TLS transport? > >>> > >>> the features themselves are needed, as we don't know what > >>> clients/servers may support. > >>> > >> OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, > listen). > >> You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support, > >> but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented. > >> Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future > >> versions could be different. > > > > I added this to the description statement of the 'tls-listen' and > > 'tls-initiate' features: > > > > Currently TLS is the only transport supported by RESTCONF, > > this feature helps support possible future transports."; > > > > > > If you are trying to say that TLS might not be the mandatory-to-implement > > transport, this sentence is not quite right. > > Fine, now it says "This feature exists as TLS might not be a > mandatory-to-implement transport in the future." > > > > You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance. > > We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and "purely optional, > > server developer's choice". We have nothing like conditionally > > mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , then > > the listen-tls feature MUST be supported." > > This seems unnecessary. Already the 'if-feature' statements will > force the server to advertise the features - or else they're not > configurable! > > > Nothing forces the server to developer to implement a particular object, because features are purely optional. The description-stmt in the feature can make this conditional requirement. But not a big deal because the IETF is too server-centric to care about the client POV of YANG conformance. > > The when-stmt can be used to provide this conditionally-mandatory > > conformance, but it has to be customized for each data subtree. It > > is more expensive than if-feature on many levels. > > No thank-you. Let's stick with just the feature statements. > > agreed > > > >>> Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that nested > >>> nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors. It is not > clear > >>> how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported. > >> > >> Wait, seriously? I didn't see that. I don't understand how else nested > >> if-feature statements can be interpreted. Can you point to the thread > >> where this was discussed? > > > > I cannot find it now. > > Essentially, features are not coupled to objects: > > > > container foo { > > if-feature A; > > container foo2 { > > if-feature AA; > > } > > } > > > > container bar { > > if-feature AA; > > } > > > > The designer has to decide: > > Does feature AA depend on A, or just container foo2 depends > > on container foo? Does an external subtree (like /bar) depend > > on both features or can they be used independently? > > I don't think the designer has any choice in this. The features > themselves have no inherent dependency (in your example, we can't > see if the feature definitions actually define a dependency), but > the containers certainly do (e.g., foo2 depends on foo). External > sub-trees (e.g., bar) can have just if-feature AA, without also > having an if-feature A (assuming that dependency doesn't exist). > > > > In this case I think the intent is to support feature listen if > > any transport is supported, and feature listen- is > > a specific transport is supported, so the if-feature inside the > > 2nd feature is correct. > > Yes. > > > > >> So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts: > >> > >> feature tls-listen { > >> if-feature listen; > >> ... > >> } > >> > >> feature tls-listen { > >> if-feature listen; > >> ... > >> } > > > > I went ahead and made this change, it seems better. > > Nothing to add here, but I'm leaving it for now since it adds > to the above discussion. > > > > > > >>>> C5: > >>> > >>> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET > >>> or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like logs > >> > >> Okay, how about this? > >> > >> "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that, > >> e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs) > >> from the RESTCONF server. The RESTCONF client must > >> close the connection when it is ready to release it. > >> Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client > >> restarts its timer until the next connection."; > > > > Not sure this is needed. > > RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated > > by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain > > this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2nd sentence. > > Oh, now I see your concern, how about this? (I removed the sentence > altogether): > > "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF client, so that > the RESTCONF client may deliver messages pending for > the RESTCONF server. Once the connection has been > closed, for whatever reason, the server will restart > its timer until the next connection."; > > I would change messages to requests > ...and by "for whatever reason", I mean, either due to the > client closing the connection, or due to reasons such as > an idle or keep-alive timeout. > > > >>>>C6: > >>>> > >>>> (M1) /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/periodic/ > >>>> (M2) /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client/connection- > type/periodic/ > >>>> > >>>> The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from timeouts. > >>>> The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The server should > >>>> not timeout an SSE response connection > >>> > >>> Agreed, and the description statement for the 'idle-timeout' > leaf > >>> says "Sessions that have a notification subscription active are never > >>> dropped. But here, under 'periodic', the whole point is to shed idle > >>> connections. For instance, imagine a client that wants to collect logs > >>> from a low-powered server once a day. What do you think? > >> > >> Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,., > >> end-time >provided) I think this would have to be used by the > >> client. This tells the server to drop the connection when the > >> replay is complete. > > > > Sure, but keep in mind that logs are just an example, there could > > be other data-collection mechanisms. Still, note that when end-time > > provided is reached, the line would become idle, if it didn't drop. > > This seems like a more generic mechanism. > > I have nothing to add here, but I'm keeping it here since it's > connected to the below comment. > > > >>> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session. > >>> > >>> POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session > >>> > >>> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF? > >> > >> First, I don't view the above as an exception. With regards to > >> 'close-session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF? - and > >> is this actually an issue for RFC 8040? > > > > RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation > > resources. It is left as an implementation detail. Our server > > treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a > > NETCONF operation like is granted and then released right > > afterwards by the server because the session is terminated. I > > think any standard behavior for application layer sessions would > > need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF. > > Okay, but can you connect this to the draft? Are you asking for > a change, or are you actually thinking about a clarification > needed for RFC 8040? > > not asking for a change. It is currently up to the implementation. For example CGI will call the server once for each request but Fast-CGI will call the thin-client once for each HTTP session and call the server over and over for each request on that session. > > > > Andy > > Kent > > > > > Andy --94eb2c1308fe66cf070556c12de7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi Andy,

>>>> C2:
>>>>
>>>> (M1) feature tls-initiate
>>>> (M1) feature tls-listen
>>>> (M2) feature tls-listen
>>>> (M2) feature tls-call-home
>>>>
>>>> Are these features really needed since a RESTCONF server M= UST support
>>>> the TLS transport?
>>>
>>> <KENT> the features themselves are needed, as we don'= ;t know what
>>> clients/servers may support.
>>>
>> OK -- These features are nested within other features (initiate, l= isten).
>> You should add a comment somewhere that TLS is optional-to-support= ,
>> but mandatory to support if the TLS transport is implemented.
>> Currently RESTCONF requires TLS be supported, but future
>> versions could be different.
>
> I added this to the description statement of the 'tls-listen' = and
> 'tls-initiate' features:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Currently TLS is the only transport supported by R= ESTCONF,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 this feature helps support possible future transpo= rts.";
>
>
> If you are trying to say that TLS might not be the mandatory-to-implem= ent
> transport, this sentence is not quite right.

Fine, now it says "This feature exists as TLS might not be a
mandatory-to-implement transport in the future."


> You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance.
> We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and "pure= ly optional,
> server developer's choice".=C2=A0 We have nothing like condit= ionally
> mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , the= n
> the listen-tls feature MUST be supported."

This seems unnecessary.=C2=A0 Already the 'if-feature' statements w= ill
force the server to advertise the features - or else they're not
configurable!




Nothing forces the serv= er to developer to implement a particular object,
because feature= s are purely optional. The description-stmt in the feature
can ma= ke this conditional requirement.=C2=A0 But not a big deal
because= the IETF is too server-centric to care about the client POV
of Y= ANG conformance.

=C2=A0
> The when-stmt can be used to provide this conditionally-mandatory
> conformance, but it has to be customized for each data subtree. It
> is more expensive than if-feature on many levels.

No thank-you.=C2=A0 Let's stick with just the feature statements.


agreed

=C2=A0=


>>> Also, recent YANG 1.1 discussions concluded (wrongly IMO) that= nested
>>> nodes do not inherit the if-feature-stmts of ancestors.=C2=A0 = It is not clear
>>> how one would access /foo/bar if /foo was not supported.
>>
>> Wait, seriously? I didn't see that.=C2=A0 I don't understa= nd how else nested
>> if-feature statements can be interpreted.=C2=A0 Can you point to t= he thread
>> where this was discussed?
>
> I cannot find it now.
> Essentially, features are not coupled to objects:
>
>=C2=A0 container foo {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature A;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container foo2 {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-feature AA;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>=C2=A0 }
>
>=C2=A0 container bar {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature AA;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>
> The designer has to decide:
> Does feature AA depend on A, or just container foo2 depends
> on container foo?=C2=A0 Does an external subtree (like /bar) depend > on both features or can they be used independently?

I don't think the designer has any choice in this.=C2=A0 The features themselves have no inherent dependency (in your example, we can't
see if the feature definitions actually define a dependency), but
the containers certainly do (e.g., foo2 depends on foo).=C2=A0 External
sub-trees (e.g., bar) can have just if-feature AA, without also
having an if-feature A (assuming that dependency doesn't exist).


> In this case I think the intent is to support feature listen if
> any transport is supported, and feature listen-<transport> is > a specific transport is supported, so the if-feature inside the
> 2nd feature is correct.

Yes.



>> So perhaps you should add if-feature-stmts:
>>
>>=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if-feature listen;
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0...
>>=C2=A0 }
>>
>>=C2=A0 feature tls-listen {
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if-feature listen;
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ...
>>=C2=A0 }
>
> I went ahead and made this change, it seems better.

Nothing to add here, but I'm leaving it for now since it adds
to the above discussion.





>>>> C5:
>>>
>>> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET >>> or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like logs=
>>
>> Okay, how about this?
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so = that,
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs)
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 from the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 The RESTCONF client m= ust
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 close the connection when it is ready to release it.<= br> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restarts its timer until the next connection.";<= br> >
> Not sure this is needed.
> RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated
> by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain
> this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2n= d sentence.

Oh, now I see your concern, how about this?=C2=A0 (I removed the sentence altogether):

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF client, so t= hat
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the RESTCONF client may deliver messages pending for =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 Once the connection has bee= n
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 closed, for whatever reason, the server will restart =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 its timer until the next connection.";


I would change messages to requests

=C2=A0
...and by "for whatever reason", I mean, either due to the
client closing the connection, or due to reasons such as
an idle or keep-alive timeout.


>>>>C6:
>>>>
>>>> (M1)=C2=A0 /restconf-client/initiate/restconf-server/= periodic/
>>>> (M2)=C2=A0 /restconf-server/call-home/restconf-client= /connection-type/periodic/
>>>>
>>>> The RESTCONF notifications via SSE should be exempt from t= imeouts.
>>>> The RESTCONF client should terminate an SSE request. The s= erver should
>>>> not timeout an SSE response connection
>>>
>>> <KENT> Agreed, and the description statement for the = 9;idle-timeout' leaf
>>> says "Sessions that have a notification subscription acti= ve are never
>>> dropped.=C2=A0 But here, under 'periodic', the whole p= oint is to shed idle
>>> connections.=C2=A0 For instance, imagine a client that wants t= o collect logs
>>> from a low-powered server once a day.=C2=A0 What do you think?=
>>
>> Notification replay has a mode where it is terminated (i.e,.,
>> end-time >provided) I think this would have to be used by the >> client.=C2=A0 This tells the server to drop the connection when th= e
>> replay is complete.
>
> Sure, but keep in mind that logs are just an example, there could
> be other data-collection mechanisms.=C2=A0 Still, note that when end-t= ime
> provided is reached, the line would become idle, if it didn't drop= .
>=C2=A0This seems like a more generic mechanism.

I have nothing to add here, but I'm keeping it here since it's
connected to the below comment.


>>> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session.
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-= session
>>>
>>> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF?
>>
>> First, I don't view the above as an exception.=C2=A0 With rega= rds to
>> 'close-session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF?= =C2=A0 - and
>> is this actually an issue for RFC 8040?
>
> RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation
> resources.=C2=A0 It is left as an implementation detail.=C2=A0 Our ser= ver
> treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a
> NETCONF operation like <lock> is granted and then released right=
> afterwards by the server because the session is terminated.=C2=A0 I > think any standard behavior for application layer sessions would
> need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF.

Okay, but can you connect this to the draft?=C2=A0 Are you asking for
a change, or are you actually thinking about a clarification
needed for RFC 8040?



not asking for a change= .
It is currently up to the implementation.
For example= CGI will call the server once for each request but Fast-CGI
will= call the thin-client once for each HTTP session and call the server
<= div>over and over for each request on that session.





> Andy

Kent






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Tue, 15 Aug 2017 14:43:22 +0000 From: Orly Kariv To: "yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com" Thread-Topic: How to inform that a device doesn't support RPC statement Thread-Index: AdMV1GT4Uu8o4FoWTXKzxd0Hv3H1ngAAGElQ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 14:43:22 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.234.241.1] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM4PR03MB1699; 6:0wbxqmiHLZHUTLB+X6fVhVnUR27hKwXaozER0YU+YYsLrp6Umm66p8DD2P3oOSndQsncz7v2/gZVdgd+sjXqeEVJrzU1am5YMCUK4GHpGbO4pyw6aJcoKNN7YtNqTMvIa1agv4v+BRJcXsitfq9FZ6AS2jf+z9uBnSgDrU/QVT22wt6JXBWxZxihwdhzAmczU6U91Q/tvjzm85IQbGAClnK3MTaWsGxCYx2btyvytxx32kgmACHBjU+z2KVX7crwD7xsg1RfsvmWP/2NQKBxLzKBDyPElbzeSuUhWk+fkB70lnJ+G1WDh+Zp9RO6XRUFx+W/HHVeKVRV99kOBlBhZQ==; 5:Yf9GACfDiEc6A9Rij1QkAVvB2fx8VOTSH3Jgvx0u6iEpJ8y+DRVhAbVWtUHeGgOubK2TA+XLVsQpJxZTxzfYyL6Oc6NPohSdtJfTbgCqpZrHtoDNWuxfJP7/WzVFKYzi8UJpvqQf0J/nFPpiYNQ6Fg==; 24:vuFNsNPKSqMx+l16FGg0tRwpgeppcrWapRyZadJTkq25AF+JxIM3wCkGCEIpZKEw/ipxxHU0378cLxB20Ty7lpLiAhPrFh0VkMpBLVTr4nI=; 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LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ecitele.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR03MB1697838E25993930A8F58D62838D0AM4PR03MB1697eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ecitele.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Aug 2017 14:43:22.0316 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2c514a61-08de-4519-b4c0-921fef62c42a X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR03MB1699 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 15:44:15 -0700 Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] How to inform that a device doesn't support RPC statement X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 14:46:57 -0000 --_000_AM4PR03MB1697838E25993930A8F58D62838D0AM4PR03MB1697eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, My name is Orly Kariv and I'm system architect in ECI. If I understand correctly deviation is done on nodes. RPC and Notifications are not treated as node. Correct ? Ietf-isis.yang introduces two RPC statements. rpc clear-adjacency rcp clear-databse Our device doesn't support one of the RPC statements. How to inform netconf client that our device doesn't support this RPC ? I prefer not to respond to the rpc call with rpc-reply-error. Please your advice Regards, Orly Kariv Office: +972-39287714 Cell: +972-549287714 Email: Orly.Kariv@ecitele.com __________________________________________________________________________= _ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is=20 CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have rece= ived this=20 transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then = delete the original=20 and all copies thereof. __________________________________________________________________________= _ --_000_AM4PR03MB1697838E25993930A8F58D62838D0AM4PR03MB1697eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

My name is Orly Kariv and I’m system architec= t in ECI.

If I understand correctly deviation is done on node= s.

RPC and Notifications are not treated as node. Corr= ect ?

 

Ietf-isis.yang introduces two RPC statements.<= /o:p>

 

rpc clear-adjacency

rcp clear-databse

 

Our device doesn’t support one of the RPC sta= tements.

How to inform netconf client that our device doesn&= #8217;t support this RPC ?

I prefer not to respond to the rpc call with rpc-re= ply-error.

 

 

Please your advice

Regards,

Orly Kariv

 

Office: +972-3928= 7714

Cell:  &nbs= p;   +972-549287714

Email: Orly.Kariv@ecitele.com

 

 


__________________________________________________________________________= _

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have rece= ived this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then = delete the original
and all copies thereof.
__________________________________________________________________________= _
--_000_AM4PR03MB1697838E25993930A8F58D62838D0AM4PR03MB1697eurp_-- From nobody Tue Aug 15 17:05:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C18BF1323BE for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:05:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CeHLHQTiukof for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6971C1323AC for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id t138so26732976wmt.1 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:05:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wk5FLc9hh1USkCmyTeuvLd6MYofNvMDxbTo39nIp/1I=; b=jLIYHsj/VzaqovUNVrhaAtf0DsbF1HeWNfuWKKrFYw5QNv8FCoU/hiHv0CrpVseeV4 rLbaAkcE2beGj19NsP0xFgOtBLFh746IC3kVPj75gOSU9l8OyJmj3Gnbciu1WV8pXV8G ZOlK2pFA4mC3I55zt+XUpzJCE1th1PzU1jmrTV/IrxjySSCXqXFlDbwPSdLVDdiJ9+xd efOg3Gdt5xSRoPchVb2lLTWcClqB18t5ADdnCyTjnQI8tvGQw42se3LQYT2coOU9IlWM 1ROhXTqg7taNVlq/u3nW90zY7mC7Ux9a8GiIyl7HWPAb2o1MOKD2SIm6rDtMIaJg7oJ6 zlaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wk5FLc9hh1USkCmyTeuvLd6MYofNvMDxbTo39nIp/1I=; b=lN+p+1YVJQpzNpMIKOiV4JGMddrPI8dOTc7lFvNJQZd0+YH8LAsU6ly/YgfkB1mWLz 8fqFrONLqpH+AGy8ajSlXHKIaoVa3H7wDrqZG8EmVBgSN1caH8044gXDcjijpZMTxxPQ b3Ym/nA4RG7OlnbzeAbzUIUaKnMxHOiPcAl865+J8Y0SSIgwqHw8gMDQl3IetBTstsbE ZmkbdLImE8VIPOn0d/Rx1NX9eeLP4uONF1t+FBKULtqbP/Q6oy6pM+eNZ0qq69ue2lfH QmC4HsyxCY3kMPnm5fmM2OrJan4nZhmCJRO1loR32dxZKugp69QcvC6T5PY6ksKkKyec ovyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5hq6nG9rcUVGJ813krKBC0jpzHvUx6QQexeIQgfEjJQ2DbQD8ri 5hpseoURQ6TYJzjnvthMlNYnWAZX56oe X-Received: by 10.28.203.78 with SMTP id b75mr122285wmg.50.1502841899726; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:04:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.182.160 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:04:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:04:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: Orly Kariv Cc: "yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1308fe965aab0556d3a592" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] How to inform that a device doesn't support RPC statement X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 00:05:04 -0000 --94eb2c1308fe965aab0556d3a592 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Look at the YANG deviation-stmt. Your server can advertise a deviation for the RFC to indicate it is not supported. You also need to return rpc-error 'operation-not-supported' if a client tries it. Andy On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Orly Kariv wrote: > Hello, > > My name is Orly Kariv and I=E2=80=99m system architect in ECI. > > If I understand correctly deviation is done on nodes. > > RPC and Notifications are not treated as node. Correct ? > > > > Ietf-isis.yang introduces two RPC statements. > > > > rpc clear-adjacency > > rcp clear-databse > > > > Our device doesn=E2=80=99t support one of the RPC statements. > > How to inform netconf client that our device doesn=E2=80=99t support this= RPC ? > > I prefer not to respond to the rpc call with rpc-reply-error. > > > > > > Please your advice > > Regards, > > Orly Kariv > > > > Office: +972-39287714 > > Cell: +972-549287714 > > Email: Orly.Kariv@ecitele.com > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________ > > This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains > information which is > CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have > received this > transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then > delete the original > and all copies thereof. > ____________________________________________________________ > _______________ > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > > --94eb2c1308fe965aab0556d3a592 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Look at the YANG deviation-stmt.
Your server can advertise a deviation for the RFC to indicate it is= not supported.
You also need to return rpc-error 'operation-= not-supported' if a client tries it.


Andy


On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Orly Kariv <Or= ly.Kariv@ecitele.com> wrote:

Hello,

My name is Orly Kariv and I=E2=80=99m system archite= ct in ECI.

If I understand correctly deviation is done on nodes= .

RPC and Notifications are not treated as node. Corre= ct ?

=C2=A0

Ietf-isis.yang introduces two RPC statements.=

=C2=A0

rpc clear-adjacency

rcp clear-databse

=C2=A0

Our device doesn=E2=80=99t support one of the RPC st= atements.

How to inform netconf client that our device doesn= =E2=80=99t support this RPC ?

I prefer not to respond to the rpc call with rpc-rep= ly-error.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Please your advice

Regards,

Orly Kariv

=C2=A0

Office: +972-39287714<= u>

Cell:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +972-549287714

Email: Orly.Kariv@ecitele.com

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_________________________________________________________________= __________

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains informa= tion which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have recei= ved this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and then d= elete the original
and all copies thereof.
_________________________________________________________________= __________

_______________________________________________
yang-doctors mailing list
yang-doctors@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-do= ctors


--94eb2c1308fe965aab0556d3a592-- From nobody Tue Aug 15 17:48:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A096C132414 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:48:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aUqGFcGOi2qj for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:47:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x244.google.com (mail-pg0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC28713226B for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x244.google.com with SMTP id y129so3791313pgy.3 for ; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:47:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=AK68iqrMKELIzDxpPpMP9YBfDV+VjPJbG022JB+73h4=; b=b7FKJFkT8TCdbWFqEhodJfKdldt+7fNbDmC9u4ADT7J54MC7B04Qw+qfo20zw8Qo8z TRjvqMcEYmXPf7FFPpoc92piTevWbvq/t1eeSHlGvvCQmDILt4AnGEZOlRDoPzoW8efg kBx7Y5+/9ZdrscNdrHLSqJnpqTFlOTohmIOlcCsFuqGLr2ieoyxPiCh4HEfaA8a3Sv0g NJl9zlBEPfvYj0tNfRpNDcEVs1+VMvuQfh0IZMOD1DkdvXYbfzvIHs2KRqR11Fs3aBhV LXDFoYMTx2fwrUUWES64DLdzRPp5/H7pNDEgQBOsdMFzU4paAug1ugbtlM1cjPV1+PmD 2ZiQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=AK68iqrMKELIzDxpPpMP9YBfDV+VjPJbG022JB+73h4=; b=exV20gC1sMRc4TxGbsV1ghtH4rmTGFMmCtO4uHUt2p7Xkk1CDo1K9pZPHt3MU5xwu1 qIbjl9yV7sH6J+yjcGF+YFFCcbj0gKr+6smvEXKpzBhydLVjJIYgw81/CeswATlM2A8S awBRnp2COSWg9/ymcaLwaXU5LEXxV32ptRoSVjezVBjbyhFURJlYOGv3jOQ9T+FI7lDW R4xjgQ4bE9hLjNEE1XFObXBCwPqZ4fmHrjJIk+Sb8y/maRstyKgnnx3HwFEzm20rhKNX BS/VBynCPwTa/vkGrcHxr8C/BUDNGNVlSpt1JlcnHQ9ycUIHUzoDLLkVIEtFJWhoFaGy w03Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5h+as91FuDSoDP1pXZVgE0BmGIeS0ljYAqXZKilCyBf3N1CwVz5 zam1tneD6L2K8w== X-Received: by 10.84.210.40 with SMTP id z37mr32883281plh.265.1502844472160; Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:47:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:30d:1320:6933:43bd:6dda:3dd8? ([2001:420:30d:1320:6933:43bd:6dda:3dd8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n11sm21715292pfg.15.2017.08.15.17.47.50 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1BE6E032-4D7F-4612-B852-1A82D46F7801" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2017 17:47:58 -0700 Cc: Orly Kariv , "yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com" Message-Id: <192DBA73-3FE4-4E99-BA9E-40664B91B563@gmail.com> References: To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] How to inform that a device doesn't support RPC statement X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 00:48:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1BE6E032-4D7F-4612-B852-1A82D46F7801 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks Andy. I have gone ahead and added this to the YANG doctors FAQ = here: = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/YANGDoctorsFAQ#HowdoesaNETCONFserverin= formaclientthattheserverdoesnotsupportRPCstatement = > On Aug 15, 2017, at 5:04 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Look at the YANG deviation-stmt. > Your server can advertise a deviation for the RFC to indicate it is = not supported. > You also need to return rpc-error 'operation-not-supported' if a = client tries it. >=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Orly Kariv > wrote: > Hello, >=20 > My name is Orly Kariv and I=E2=80=99m system architect in ECI. >=20 > If I understand correctly deviation is done on nodes. >=20 > RPC and Notifications are not treated as node. Correct ? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Ietf-isis.yang introduces two RPC statements. >=20 > =20 >=20 > rpc clear-adjacency >=20 > rcp clear-databse >=20 > =20 >=20 > Our device doesn=E2=80=99t support one of the RPC statements. >=20 > How to inform netconf client that our device doesn=E2=80=99t support = this RPC ? >=20 > I prefer not to respond to the rpc call with rpc-reply-error. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Please your advice >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Orly Kariv >=20 > =20 >=20 > Office: +972-39287714 >=20 > Cell: +972-549287714 >=20 > Email: Orly.Kariv@ecitele.com > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > = __________________________________________________________________________= _ >=20 > This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains = information which is=20 > CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have = received this=20 > transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and = then delete the original=20 > and all copies thereof. > = __________________________________________________________________________= _ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_1BE6E032-4D7F-4612-B852-1A82D46F7801 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks Andy. I have gone ahead and added this to the YANG = doctors FAQ here:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/YANGDoctorsFAQ#HowdoesaNETC= ONFserverinformaclientthattheserverdoesnotsupportRPCstatement

On Aug 15, 2017, at 5:04 PM, = Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

Hi,

Look = at the YANG deviation-stmt.
Your server can = advertise a deviation for the RFC to indicate it is not = supported.
You also need to return rpc-error = 'operation-not-supported' if a client tries it.


Andy


On Tue, = Aug 15, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Orly Kariv <Orly.Kariv@ecitele.com> wrote:

Hello,

My = name is Orly Kariv and I=E2=80=99m system architect in ECI.

If I = understand correctly deviation is done on nodes.

RPC and Notifications are not = treated as node. Correct ?

 

Ietf-isis.yang introduces two RPC statements.

 

rpc = clear-adjacency

rcp clear-databse

 

Our device doesn=E2=80=99t = support one of the RPC statements.

How to inform netconf client = that our device doesn=E2=80=99t support this RPC ?

I prefer not to respond to the = rpc call with rpc-reply-error.

 

 

Please your advice

Regards,

Orly Kariv

 

Office: +972-39287714

Cell:      = +972-549287714

Email: Orly.Kariv@ecitele.com

 

 


___________________________________________________________________________

This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains = information which is
CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. If you have = received this
transmission in error, please inform us by e-mail, phone or fax, and = then delete the original
and all copies thereof.
___________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________
yang-doctors mailing list
yang-doctors@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors


_______________________________________________
yang-doctors= mailing list
yang-doctors@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



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Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 600B313263E for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 00:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 200AA1AE02EF; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:14:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 09:12:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170816.091255.438248410991005821.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Orly.Kariv@ecitele.com Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] How to inform that a device doesn't support RPC statement X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:14:28 -0000 Orly Kariv wrote: > Hi Andy, > Thanks for the quick response. > Actually I tried to follow RFC6020 and RFC7950 with no success. > I tried using the deviation statement for RPC and Notifications and > failed on compilation via confdc and pyang. > > The relevant RFC I want to deviate is: > ietf-isis@20170527.yang: > > Enclosed deviation statements for RPC and Notification (marked): > /* Event counters not supported */ > deviation "/rt:routing/" > +"rt:control-plane-protocols/rt:control-plane-protocol" > +"/isis:isis/isis:interfaces/isis:interface/isis:event-counters/isis:init-fails" > { > deviate not-supported; > } > > > /* RPC Deviation */ > deviation "/isis:rpc/isis:clear-adjacency" { > deviate not-supported; > } > > > > > /* notification deviation */ > > deviation "/isis:notification/isis:corrupted-lsp-detected" { > deviate not-supported; > } > > deviation "/isis:notification/isis:database-overload" { > deviate not-supported; > } > > > > Running pyang > pyang --strict eci-isis-dev\@2017-07-19.yang -f tree -o result.txt > eci-isis-dev@2017-07-19.yang:156: error: node ietf-isis::rpc is not > found The error message is pretty clear - there is no node called "rpc" in the "ietf-isis" module. You should do: deviation "/isis:clear-adjacency" { deviate not-supported; } /martin From nobody Wed Aug 16 00:19:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F85132640 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 00:19:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has been altered)" header.d=eci365.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y6WKSOCaWUqX for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 00:19:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta5.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta5.messagelabs.com [195.245.231.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9612132645 for ; 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Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:19:10 +0000 From: Orly Kariv To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "andy@yumaworks.com" , "yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com" Thread-Topic: [yang-doctors] How to inform that a device doesn't support RPC statement Thread-Index: AdMV1GT4Uu8o4FoWTXKzxd0Hv3H1ngAAGElQABOhpIAADhcjMAAA2uOAAAAy8zA= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 07:19:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20170816.091255.438248410991005821.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20170816.091255.438248410991005821.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.234.241.1] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM4PR03MB1697; 6:hVxzEVSNe54IAF4NBGiIzETlBvYvA+PmIQb1G3S+OB6U4dkP34JFGA61cs9NEOE5eeExYANhzyashZxsseabsRILtcCNce1G8JjtB84QjLYrz8P6ZqmSdNClAcvzVN+on2qgFasQwcwHUW19sGhu2vZitN/AdvJJaUEfx0q5QJW7aQar2fqb9ncwotgTEIDg1NNl4tgtY4uuSDQZLLrBAIkPY7o8kM9MoTTt5EO8seelYGnIcZlutKveeOqIl8ls5w4IjaD+5rslS07MU7yuslRkFg0/b18I9hbtgPWjH/ZQa0oOg8YzWZYfF0SNR4W8xvv9tIgLg/clRxxyxan+BQ==; 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Regards=20 Orly -----Original Message----- From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:13 AM To: Orly Kariv Cc: andy@yumaworks.com; yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] How to inform that a device doesn't support RP= C statement Orly Kariv wrote: > Hi Andy, > Thanks for the quick response. > Actually I tried to follow RFC6020 and RFC7950 with no success. > I tried using the deviation statement for RPC and Notifications and=20 > failed on compilation via confdc and pyang. >=20 > The relevant RFC I want to deviate is: > ietf-isis@20170527.yang: >=20 > Enclosed deviation statements for RPC and Notification (marked): > /* Event counters not supported */ > deviation "/rt:routing/" > +"rt:control-plane-protocols/rt:control-p= lane-protocol" > +"/isis:isis/isis:interfaces/isis:interf= ace/isis:event-counters/isis:init-fails" > { > deviate not-supported; > } >=20 >=20 > /* RPC Deviation */ > deviation "/isis:rpc/isis:clear-adjacency" { > deviate not-supported; > } >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > /* notification deviation */ >=20 > deviation "/isis:notification/isis:corrupted-lsp-detecte= d" { > deviate not-supported; > } >=20 > deviation "/isis:notification/isis:database-overload" { > deviate not-supported; > } >=20 >=20 >=20 > Running pyang > pyang --strict eci-isis-dev\@2017-07-19.yang -f tree -o result.txt > eci-isis-dev@2017-07-19.yang:156: error: node ietf-isis::rpc is not=20 > found The error message is pretty clear - there is no node called "rpc" in the "= ietf-isis" module. You should do: deviation "/isis:clear-adjacency" { deviate not-supported; } /martin __________________________________________________________________________= _ This e-mail message is intended for the recipient only and contains inform= ation which is=20 CONFIDENTIAL and which may be proprietary to ECI Telecom. 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received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: jabil.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BN1PR0201MB0833B05FB5307BDEF2E8E3F5C3820BN1PR0201MB0833_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: jabil.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Aug 2017 18:09:27.2743 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bc876b21-f134-4c12-a265-8ed26b7f0f3b X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN1PR0201MB0835 Archived-At: Subject: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2017 18:09:32 -0000 --_000_BN1PR0201MB0833B05FB5307BDEF2E8E3F5C3820BN1PR0201MB0833_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello YANG doctors, We wish to define a YANG model with several counters. The counters that we= wish to model are the union of all the counters supported by our sample of= vendors. This means that the model will define some counters supported by= both vendor_1 and vendor_2 (or more), but some counters will be supported = only by one of the vendors. We would like the model to allow each vendor t= o indicate the counters it supports. We can think of 3 approaches below, and would like your feedback regarding = which approach we should choose. We're also open to suggestions of other a= pproaches. Option 1: Define an optional feature (if-feature) for each counter. Sample: container queuing-statistics-opt-1 { config false; description "queue related statistics "; leaf output-pkts { if-feature "output-pkts"; type uint64; description "Number of packets transmitted from queue "; } leaf output-bytes { if-feature "output-bytes"; type uint64; description "Number of bytes transmitted from queue "; } leaf queue-size-pkts { if-feature "queue-size-pkts"; type uint64; description "Number of packets currently buffered "; } /* etc. */ } Advantage: This is the standard approach built into the language to make a = statement conditional. Disadvantage: There are many counters, and each counter will be an optional= feature, resulting in many optional features in the model. Option 2: Define a leaf of the type bits, where each bit indicates that a p= articular counter is supported. Example: container queuing-statistics-opt-2 { config false; description "queue related statistics "; leaf supported-counters { type bits { bit queue-output-pkts; bit queue-output-bytes; bit queue-size-pkts; } } leaf output-pkts { type uint64; description "Number of packets transmitted from queue "; } leaf output-bytes { type uint64; description "Number of bytes transmitted from queue "; } leaf queue-size-pkts { type uint64; description "Number of packets currently buffered "; } /* etc. */ } Advantage: This reduces the number of optional features in the model. Disadvantage: The output that indicates which counters are supported might = be too verbose to be user friendly. This is not YANG's standard approach t= o make a statement conditional. Option 3: Define a leaf of the type integer, where each bit in the integer = indicates that a particular counter is supported. Example: container queuing-statistics-opt-3 { config false; description "queue related statistics "; leaf supported-counters { type uint32; description "Bit 0 indicates whether output-pkts counter is supported Bit 1 indicates whether output-bytes counter is supported Bit 2 indicates whether queue-size-pkts counter is supported"; } leaf output-pkts { type uint64; description "Number of packets transmitted from queue "; } leaf output-bytes { type uint64; description "Number of bytes transmitted from queue "; } leaf queue-size-pkts { type uint64; description "Number of packets currently buffered "; } Advantage: The output, in the form of a single integer, that indicates whic= h counters are supported is compact. Disadvantage: The model is vague/implicit---the meaning of each bit in supp= orted-counters is embedded in the description, rather than modeled explicit= ly. This is also not YANG's standard approach to make a statement conditio= nal. Thanks, Helen --_000_BN1PR0201MB0833B05FB5307BDEF2E8E3F5C3820BN1PR0201MB0833_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello YANG doctors,

 

We wish to define a YANG model with several count= ers.  The counters that we wish to model are the union of all the coun= ters supported by our sample of vendors.  This means that the model wi= ll define some counters supported by both vendor_1 and vendor_2 (or more), but some counters will be supported only by one of= the vendors.  We would like the model to allow each vendor to indicat= e the counters it supports.

 

We can think of 3 approaches below, and would lik= e your feedback regarding which approach we should choose.  We’r= e also open to suggestions of other approaches.

 

Option 1: Define an optional feature (if-feature)= for each counter.

Sample:

  container queuing-s= tatistics-opt-1 {

    config = false;

    descrip= tion

    &n= bsp; "queue related statistics ";

    leaf ou= tput-pkts {

    &n= bsp; if-feature "out= put-pkts";

    &n= bsp; type uint64;

    &n= bsp; description

    &n= bsp;   "Number of packets transmitted from queue ";

    }<= /o:p>

    leaf ou= tput-bytes {

    &n= bsp; if-feature "out= put-bytes";

    &n= bsp; type uint64;

    &n= bsp; description

    &n= bsp;   "Number of bytes transmitted from queue ";<= /o:p>

    }<= /o:p>

    leaf qu= eue-size-pkts {

    &n= bsp; if-feature "que= ue-size-pkts";

    &n= bsp; type uint64;

    &n= bsp; description

    &n= bsp; "Number of packets currently buffered ";

    }<= /o:p>

    /* etc.= */

  }=

Advantage: This is the standard approach built in= to the language to make a statement conditional.

Disadvantage: There are many counters, and each c= ounter will be an optional feature, resulting in many optional features in = the model.

 

Option 2: Define a leaf of the type bits, where e= ach bit indicates that a particular counter is supported.

Example:

  container queuing-s= tatistics-opt-2 {

    config = false;

    descrip= tion

    &n= bsp; "queue related statistics ";

    leaf supported-count= ers {

      type bits {

        bit queue-output-pk= ts;

        bit queue-output-by= tes;

        bit queue-size-pkts= ;

      }

    }

    leaf ou= tput-pkts {

    &n= bsp; type uint64;

    &n= bsp; description

    &n= bsp;   "Number of packets transmitted from queue ";

    }<= /o:p>

    leaf ou= tput-bytes {

    &n= bsp; type uint64;

    &n= bsp; description

    &n= bsp;   "Number of bytes transmitted from queue ";<= /o:p>

    }<= /o:p>

    leaf qu= eue-size-pkts {

    &n= bsp; type uint64;

    &n= bsp; description

    &n= bsp; "Number of packets currently buffered ";

    }<= /o:p>

    /* etc.= */

  }=

Advantage: This reduces the number of optional fe= atures in the model.

Disadvantage: The output that indicates which cou= nters are supported might be too verbose to be user friendly.  This is= not YANG’s standard approach to make a statement conditional.

 

Option 3: Define a leaf of the type integer, wher= e each bit in the integer indicates that a particular counter is supported.=

Example:

  container queuing-s= tatistics-opt-3 {

    config = false;

    descrip= tion

    &n= bsp; "queue related statistics ";

    leaf supported-count= ers {

      type uint32;<= /p>

      description

        "Bit 0 indicat= es whether output-pkts counter is supported

         Bit 1 indicat= es whether output-bytes counter is supported

         Bit 2 indicat= es whether queue-size-pkts counter is supported";

    }

    leaf ou= tput-pkts {

    &n= bsp; type uint64;

    &n= bsp; description

    &n= bsp;   "Number of packets transmitted from queue ";

    }<= /o:p>

    leaf ou= tput-bytes {

    &n= bsp; type uint64;

    &n= bsp; description

    &n= bsp;   "Number of bytes transmitted from queue ";<= /o:p>

    }<= /o:p>

    leaf qu= eue-size-pkts {

    &n= bsp; type uint64;

    &n= bsp; description

    &n= bsp; "Number of packets currently buffered ";

    }<= /o:p>

Advantage: The output, in the form of a single in= teger, that indicates which counters are supported is compact.

Disadvantage: The model is vague/implicit---the m= eaning of each bit in supported-counters is embedded in the description, ra= ther than modeled explicitly.  This is also not YANG’s standard = approach to make a statement conditional.

 

Thanks,

Helen

 

 

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bGUgaW50ZWdlciwgdGhhdCBpbmRpY2F0ZXMgd2hpY2ggY291bnRlcnMgYXJlIHN1cHBvcnRlZCBp cyBjb21wYWN0LjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb1BsYWluVGV4dCI+RGlzYWR2 YW50YWdlOiBUaGUgbW9kZWwgaXMgdmFndWUvaW1wbGljaXQtLS10aGUgbWVhbmluZyBvZiBlYWNo IGJpdCBpbiBzdXBwb3J0ZWQtY291bnRlcnMgaXMgZW1iZWRkZWQgaW4gdGhlIGRlc2NyaXB0aW9u LCByYXRoZXIgdGhhbiBtb2RlbGVkIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkuJm5ic3A7IFRoaXMgaXMgYWxzbyBub3Qg WUFOR+KAmXMgc3RhbmRhcmQgYXBwcm9hY2ggdG8gbWFrZSBhIHN0YXRlbWVudCBjb25kaXRpb25h bC48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29QbGFpblRleHQiPiZuYnNwOzxvOnA+PC9v OnA+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb1BsYWluVGV4dCI+VGhhbmtzLDxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0K PHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb1BsYWluVGV4dCI+SGVsZW48bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJN c29QbGFpblRleHQiPiZuYnNwOzxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb1BsYWluVGV4 dCI+Jm5ic3A7PG86cD48L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_5FACD324EF4640BDB7E62F546D31A1A4junipernet_-- From nobody Wed Aug 16 22:06:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1989C124E15 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 22:06:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id syLsJBMmFVSz for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 22:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71A001201F8 for ; Wed, 16 Aug 2017 22:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de 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(demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LOpHmMNubAdF; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7026E200C3; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2EA064040F34; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:06:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:06:48 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ing-Wher Chen Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Message-ID: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Ing-Wher Chen , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:06:53 -0000 On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 06:09:27PM +0000, Ing-Wher Chen wrote: > Hello YANG doctors, > > We wish to define a YANG model with several counters. The counters that we wish to model are the union of all the counters supported by our sample of vendors. This means that the model will define some counters supported by both vendor_1 and vendor_2 (or more), but some counters will be supported only by one of the vendors. We would like the model to allow each vendor to indicate the counters it supports. > > We can think of 3 approaches below, and would like your feedback regarding which approach we should choose. We're also open to suggestions of other approaches. > > Option 1: Define an optional feature (if-feature) for each counter. > > Option 2: Define a leaf of the type bits, where each bit indicates that a particular counter is supported. > > Option 3: Define a leaf of the type integer, where each bit in the integer indicates that a particular counter is supported. > Let me add: Option 4: Vendors publish deviations that document how they deviate from the standard. Advantage: This is the standard approach built into the language to document how an implementation deviates from a standard. Disadvantage: Vendors do not like to document deviations, hence they like to see every little counter as a feature. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Aug 17 01:07:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47259132644 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:07:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vXJF73mDPQwz for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4884132397 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.147.40.126] (unknown [173.38.220.53]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A6AE1AE01AA; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:07:47 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Jan Lindblad In-Reply-To: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:07:44 +0200 Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> To: Ing-Wher Chen , Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:07:50 -0000 >> Hello YANG doctors, >>=20 >> We wish to define a YANG model with several counters. The counters = that we wish to model are the union of all the counters supported by our = sample of vendors. This means that the model will define some counters = supported by both vendor_1 and vendor_2 (or more), but some counters = will be supported only by one of the vendors. We would like the model = to allow each vendor to indicate the counters it supports. >>=20 >> We can think of 3 approaches below, and would like your feedback = regarding which approach we should choose. We're also open to = suggestions of other approaches. >>=20 >> Option 1: Define an optional feature (if-feature) for each counter. >>=20 >> Option 2: Define a leaf of the type bits, where each bit indicates = that a particular counter is supported. >>=20 >> Option 3: Define a leaf of the type integer, where each bit in the = integer indicates that a particular counter is supported. >>=20 >=20 > Let me add: >=20 > Option 4: Vendors publish deviations that document how they deviate = from > the standard. >=20 > Advantage: This is the standard approach built into the language to = document > how an implementation deviates from a standard. >=20 > Disadvantage: Vendors do not like to document deviations, hence they > like to see every little counter as a feature. Disadvantage (fundamental) with deviations: Application developers who = are adopting standard YANG models (yay!) as their southbound interface = have no way of knowing which deviations vendors will release on their = devices. So their applications will typically fail when things they = count on isn't supported or is supported differently. When standard YANG = models have if-feature statements, reasonably prudent application = developers will build applications prepared for the case that some = information might not be there.=20 Conclusion: deviations are very bad (ambush) for the uptake of standard = YANG models. Option 5: Let each implementation return the data it supports without = any content declaration Since this is optional operational data, it's formally up to the = application to simply return any collected data it has and skip any = other leafs. Advantage: Dead simple to understand for server and client alike, and = zero complication on the YANG level. IMO cleaner and clearer than = options 2, 3, 4. Even if any of the options 2-4 were implemented, the = client would still have to be prepared to not receive any particular = leaf since they are all optional. If I implemented the client, I = probably wouldn't even bother to read that bit mask/whatever. Disadvantage: Application developers will have no way of knowing a = priori which data may arrive from a particular server. If this is = important, option 1 would clearly be better. /jan From nobody Thu Aug 17 01:17:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4C8A132386 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:17:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5x6sX3hDdbvB for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:17:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B37132646 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:17:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A5F8D1AE01AA; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:17:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:15:38 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170817.101538.940975913472361160.mbj@tail-f.com> To: janl@tail-f.com Cc: Ing-Wher_Chen@jabil.com, j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de, yang-doctors@ietf.org, nstrahle@juniper.net, asechoud@cisco.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:17:11 -0000 Jan Lindblad wrote: > Option 5: Let each implementation return the data it supports without > any content declaration > > Since this is optional operational data, it's formally up to the > application to simply return any collected data it has and skip any > other leafs. I was just going to suggest this as well. I think the description statement can make it clear that if the implementation doesn't have a value for the counter, the node is not instantiated. (note that this is slightly different from saying that the node is not implemented; the instrumentation code would know the names of all counters, but not instantiate all of them, rather than just know the names of the ones it "supports".) /martin > Advantage: Dead simple to understand for server and client alike, and > zero complication on the YANG level. IMO cleaner and clearer than > options 2, 3, 4. Even if any of the options 2-4 were implemented, the > client would still have to be prepared to not receive any particular > leaf since they are all optional. If I implemented the client, I > probably wouldn't even bother to read that bit mask/whatever. > > Disadvantage: Application developers will have no way of knowing a > priori which data may arrive from a particular server. If this is > important, option 1 would clearly be better. From nobody Thu Aug 17 01:37:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A3B132418 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:37:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TrY17ygHPJYA for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1EB94132397 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 01:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED96AEC1; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:37:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Ghh0L0Kri874; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:37:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:37:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA36200C5; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:37:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ombbmK3zVoP; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:37:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D105B200C3; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:37:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id C3423404141C; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:37:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:37:39 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Jan Lindblad Cc: Ing-Wher Chen , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Message-ID: <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Jan Lindblad , Ing-Wher Chen , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:37:46 -0000 On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 10:07:44AM +0200, Jan Lindblad wrote: > >> Hello YANG doctors, > >> > >> We wish to define a YANG model with several counters. The counters that we wish to model are the union of all the counters supported by our sample of vendors. This means that the model will define some counters supported by both vendor_1 and vendor_2 (or more), but some counters will be supported only by one of the vendors. We would like the model to allow each vendor to indicate the counters it supports. > >> > >> We can think of 3 approaches below, and would like your feedback regarding which approach we should choose. We're also open to suggestions of other approaches. > >> > >> Option 1: Define an optional feature (if-feature) for each counter. > >> > >> Option 2: Define a leaf of the type bits, where each bit indicates that a particular counter is supported. > >> > >> Option 3: Define a leaf of the type integer, where each bit in the integer indicates that a particular counter is supported. > >> > > > > Let me add: > > > > Option 4: Vendors publish deviations that document how they deviate from > > the standard. > > > > Advantage: This is the standard approach built into the language to document > > how an implementation deviates from a standard. > > > > Disadvantage: Vendors do not like to document deviations, hence they > > like to see every little counter as a feature. > > Disadvantage (fundamental) with deviations: Application developers who are adopting standard YANG models (yay!) as their southbound interface have no way of knowing which deviations vendors will release on their devices. So their applications will typically fail when things they count on isn't supported or is supported differently. When standard YANG models have if-feature statements, reasonably prudent application developers will build applications prepared for the case that some information might not be there. > > Conclusion: deviations are very bad (ambush) for the uptake of standard YANG models. > > > Option 5: Let each implementation return the data it supports without any content declaration > > Since this is optional operational data, it's formally up to the application to simply return any collected data it has and skip any other leafs. > > Advantage: Dead simple to understand for server and client alike, and zero complication on the YANG level. IMO cleaner and clearer than options 2, 3, 4. Even if any of the options 2-4 were implemented, the client would still have to be prepared to not receive any particular leaf since they are all optional. If I implemented the client, I probably wouldn't even bother to read that bit mask/whatever. > > Disadvantage: Application developers will have no way of knowing a priori which data may arrive from a particular server. If this is important, option 1 would clearly be better. > I fail to see why #5 is any better than #4. I believe a feature for every counter is a misuse of YANG feature statements, it will get horribly ugly. I recently observe an increase of feature statement usage in order to accomodate server implementations and the ultimate solution is a feature statement for every leaf, list, rpc, action, notification and perhaps even certain value sets. This is ridiculous, but a feature for every counter is getting damn close to it. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Aug 17 04:02:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BE4D124207 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 04:02:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OiuzJyEGeAL2 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 04:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4761200B9 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 04:02:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.147.40.126] (unknown [173.38.220.53]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6B5C21AE01AA; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:02:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan Lindblad Message-Id: <6991455A-91A6-42A6-86A6-F19A95BCD133@tail-f.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_86244D9D-2716-4083-95B8-D084D70E055F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:02:44 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> Cc: Ing-Wher Chen , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 11:02:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_86244D9D-2716-4083-95B8-D084D70E055F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>> Hello YANG doctors, >>>>=20 >>>> We wish to define a YANG model with several counters. The counters = that we wish to model are the union of all the counters supported by our = sample of vendors. This means that the model will define some counters = supported by both vendor_1 and vendor_2 (or more), but some counters = will be supported only by one of the vendors. We would like the model = to allow each vendor to indicate the counters it supports. >>>>=20 >>>> We can think of 3 approaches below, and would like your feedback = regarding which approach we should choose. We're also open to = suggestions of other approaches. >>>>=20 >>>> Option 1: Define an optional feature (if-feature) for each counter. >>>>=20 >>>> Option 2: Define a leaf of the type bits, where each bit indicates = that a particular counter is supported. >>>>=20 >>>> Option 3: Define a leaf of the type integer, where each bit in the = integer indicates that a particular counter is supported. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Let me add: >>>=20 >>> Option 4: Vendors publish deviations that document how they deviate = from >>> the standard. >>>=20 >>> Advantage: This is the standard approach built into the language to = document >>> how an implementation deviates from a standard. >>>=20 >>> Disadvantage: Vendors do not like to document deviations, hence they >>> like to see every little counter as a feature. >>=20 >> Disadvantage (fundamental) with deviations: Application developers = who are adopting standard YANG models (yay!) as their southbound = interface have no way of knowing which deviations vendors will release = on their devices. So their applications will typically fail when things = they count on isn't supported or is supported differently. When standard = YANG models have if-feature statements, reasonably prudent application = developers will build applications prepared for the case that some = information might not be there.=20 >>=20 >> Conclusion: deviations are very bad (ambush) for the uptake of = standard YANG models. >>=20 >>=20 >> Option 5: Let each implementation return the data it supports without = any content declaration >>=20 >> Since this is optional operational data, it's formally up to the = application to simply return any collected data it has and skip any = other leafs. >>=20 >> Advantage: Dead simple to understand for server and client alike, and = zero complication on the YANG level. IMO cleaner and clearer than = options 2, 3, 4. Even if any of the options 2-4 were implemented, the = client would still have to be prepared to not receive any particular = leaf since they are all optional. If I implemented the client, I = probably wouldn't even bother to read that bit mask/whatever. >>=20 >> Disadvantage: Application developers will have no way of knowing a = priori which data may arrive from a particular server. If this is = important, option 1 would clearly be better. >>=20 >=20 > I fail to see why #5 is any better than #4. >=20 > I believe a feature for every counter is a misuse of YANG feature > statements, it will get horribly ugly. I recently observe an increase > of feature statement usage in order to accomodate server > implementations and the ultimate solution is a feature statement for > every leaf, list, rpc, action, notification and perhaps even certain > value sets. This is ridiculous, but a feature for every counter is > getting damn close to it. Agreed, but "a feature for every counter" is option #1. There are no = if-features in option #5, there's only reliance on leafs being optional = and abstention from inventing local protocols based on the description = field. The problem with #4 is that many clients faithfully implementing = applications based on the advertised, standard model will break. To fix = the breakage requires after the fact programmer intervention. Not very = software-defined. The long term effect is that application developers = ignore standard models since custom adaptation to each device's = implementation is required anyway, if deviations are used more than very = occasionally. /jan --Apple-Mail=_86244D9D-2716-4083-95B8-D084D70E055F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hello YANG doctors,

We wish to = define a YANG model with several counters.  The counters that we = wish to model are the union of all the counters supported by our sample = of vendors.  This means that the model will define some counters = supported by both vendor_1 and vendor_2 (or more), but some counters = will be supported only by one of the vendors.  We would like the = model to allow each vendor to indicate the counters it supports.

We can think of 3 approaches below, and would = like your feedback regarding which approach we should choose. =  We're also open to suggestions of other approaches.

Option 1: Define an optional feature = (if-feature) for each counter.

Option 2: = Define a leaf of the type bits, where each bit indicates that a = particular counter is supported.

Option 3: = Define a leaf of the type integer, where each bit in the integer = indicates that a particular counter is supported.


Let me add:

Option 4: Vendors publish deviations that document how they = deviate from
the standard.

Advantage: This is the standard approach built into the = language to document
how an implementation deviates from a = standard.

Disadvantage: Vendors do not like = to document deviations, hence they
like to see every = little counter as a feature.

Disadvantage (fundamental) with deviations: Application = developers who are adopting standard YANG models (yay!) as their = southbound interface have no way of knowing which deviations vendors = will release on their devices. So their applications will typically fail = when things they count on isn't supported or is supported differently. = When standard YANG models have if-feature statements, reasonably prudent = application developers will build applications prepared for the case = that some information might not be there. 

Conclusion: deviations are very bad (ambush) for the uptake = of standard YANG models.


Option 5: Let each implementation return the data it supports = without any content declaration

Since this = is optional operational data, it's formally up to the application to = simply return any collected data it has and skip any other leafs.

Advantage: Dead simple to understand for = server and client alike, and zero complication on the YANG level. IMO = cleaner and clearer than options 2, 3, 4. Even if any of the options 2-4 = were implemented, the client would still have to be prepared to not = receive any particular leaf since they are all optional. If I = implemented the client, I probably wouldn't even bother to read that bit = mask/whatever.

Disadvantage: Application = developers will have no way of knowing a priori which data may arrive = from a particular server. If this is important, option 1 would clearly = be better.


I fail to see why #5 is any better than = #4.

I believe a feature for every counter is a = misuse of YANG feature
statements, it will get horribly ugly. I = recently observe an increase
of feature statement usage in order to = accomodate server
implementations and = the ultimate solution is a feature statement for
every leaf, list, rpc, action, notification and = perhaps even certain
value sets. This is = ridiculous, but a feature for every counter is
getting damn close to it.

Agreed, but = "a feature = for every counter" is option #1. There are no if-features in option #5, = there's only reliance on leafs being optional and abstention from = inventing local protocols based on the description = field.

The problem with #4 is that many = clients faithfully implementing applications based on the advertised, = standard model will break. To fix the breakage requires after the fact = programmer intervention. Not very software-defined. The long term effect = is that application developers ignore standard models since custom = adaptation to each device's implementation is required anyway, if = deviations are used more than very occasionally.

/jan

= --Apple-Mail=_86244D9D-2716-4083-95B8-D084D70E055F-- From nobody Thu Aug 17 05:05:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D4D132026 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:05:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wt1AuWJL-YCW for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:04:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4CE61204DA for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF43DEC1; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:04:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id dl7tJA5fOKwp; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:04:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:04:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E021200C8; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:04:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gXWGXtubokPI; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:04:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05171200C5; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:04:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id C215240417E7; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:04:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:04:51 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Jan Lindblad Cc: Ing-Wher Chen , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Message-ID: <20170817120451.syz54lblctjitbm7@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Jan Lindblad , Ing-Wher Chen , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> <6991455A-91A6-42A6-86A6-F19A95BCD133@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6991455A-91A6-42A6-86A6-F19A95BCD133@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 12:05:02 -0000 On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 01:02:44PM +0200, Jan Lindblad wrote: > > The problem with #4 is that many clients faithfully implementing applications based on the advertised, standard model will break. To fix the breakage requires after the fact programmer intervention. Not very software-defined. The long term effect is that application developers ignore standard models since custom adaptation to each device's implementation is required anyway, if deviations are used more than very occasionally. > I again fail to see the difference here between #4 and #5. Simple clients will fail in the same way. Option #4 allows smarter clients that are able to determine upfront that they won't work with a certain server. Perhaps your logic is that a smarter client will still have to expect that a server is not entirely implementing a model (i.e., doing #5) with out documenting this, and hence since the smarter client has to expect some servers to be 'incomplete' anyway you can equally well expect all of them to be 'incomplete' and skip the effort to decide upfront whether a server implements a model 'complete enough' for the client to work. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Aug 17 05:40:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1881323AC for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:40:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rPiCemPleeoB for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D9B1132391 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.147.40.126] (unknown [173.38.220.53]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 376431AE01AA; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:40:54 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Jan Lindblad In-Reply-To: <20170817120451.syz54lblctjitbm7@elstar.local> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:40:51 +0200 Cc: Ing-Wher Chen , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3EA7384C-2D5D-4C00-8479-75277389DE5B@tail-f.com> References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> <6991455A-91A6-42A6-86A6-F19A95BCD133@tail-f.com> <20170817120451.syz54lblctjitbm7@elstar.local> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 12:40:58 -0000 >> The problem with #4 is that many clients faithfully implementing = applications based on the advertised, standard model will break. To fix = the breakage requires after the fact programmer intervention. Not very = software-defined. The long term effect is that application developers = ignore standard models since custom adaptation to each device's = implementation is required anyway, if deviations are used more than very = occasionally. >=20 > I again fail to see the difference here between #4 and #5. Simple > clients will fail in the same way. Option #4 allows smarter clients > that are able to determine upfront that they won't work with a certain > server. >=20 > Perhaps your logic is that a smarter client will still have to expect > that a server is not entirely implementing a model (i.e., doing #5) > with out documenting this, and hence since the smarter client has to > expect some servers to be 'incomplete' anyway you can equally well > expect all of them to be 'incomplete' and skip the effort to decide > upfront whether a server implements a model 'complete enough' for the > client to work. I think we're mostly in agreement. In this case where we only talk about = optional config false leafs, the client will have to cope with any/all = of them being absent in any case. Bit masks, if-feature or deviation = not-supoprted statements are not going to change that. In that case #5 = is the leanest solution. I don't look at client applications the same way as you do, however. You = think a simple client is one that would fail if the YANG is randomly = deviated, while a smarter one would cope. In my experience, it's the = other way around. The really simple clients are just browsers that print = whatever they get. They don't care if something is missing, or if a leaf = is of a different type than stated in the standard YANG. It's the smart = clients that actually understand and use the returned information for = complex decisions that will fail when things deviate. Have you ever seen a smart client that can cope with randomly deviated = YANG models, unless a programmer has intervened and created special code = for handing that particular deviating device type? I have not. /jan From nobody Thu Aug 17 08:32:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D42F1321C8 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:32:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Yrksv3BO3-1Y for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x232.google.com (mail-wr0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91978132144 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x232.google.com with SMTP id y96so44135875wrc.1 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:32:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Ln77OVG7/vwwoRLeovOPuW04s0hRnfS+Sl6Ri+hxYnE=; b=kxx5+7TUe8k2wnclnYK9ymbON8W8SIo9Feshrt/2w5i5PE6U5ChDXpw6Cbn10HdL+E iuE5orE3xiYfpaPgiu7vmiM1Catt9bi+qfJ/Wi1Gc/znG5Iws1lPhxe+KgEJxB0hxIS7 Plv2YiycrbRQgwp8haSf0BL/gy3iZS4CCmnpo4TytmmlKPGXqJS51w6bDsBLsmPP4/pF SfCrLJzztf26Kd1/0ndHlzrReZbTzoaJLj5gnZywoL7oN3jc3P64YK82pGsm97wDYQZu q30v0alPAs8bCkjWu6p3uvTTExI0FkOigZa7+wIAEmBwoBA2SjiM5ecgXJgrmytWUrwT RkYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Ln77OVG7/vwwoRLeovOPuW04s0hRnfS+Sl6Ri+hxYnE=; b=Sk57MbwP0X3DcCHI0ObQ3yKrdp+El+eeDMq5fKhwU53IfjpOLjYUC6cMw3Ni6PDTnL xd2MrYowkNF7FnLh3OXY66k/+PEU5gJ/Mm1FHN7Av3ubxrgcfYyyZb7wiL3SjaLjtV/Y bdH+7vqUoo3EFQaX0/BbPk+8hRPYkB0bcgcrnLCwLw0JMzd2UlN+d9tQ6utYrqvPBL89 ASuUgXIeC2DlIJ0dRzhv0J/LEHw5PdURXLlTW6+HbUUZryZbbwFdZ0ck4BnozLArHMwH Z1gpj6+w/5Fb2npHB26p/oBdF6jiLWaChRHc56KqEXO1okdZSCsZc+ck7T4T4ytcjPM6 V1rQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5iLQt/Mo1PCNCxA4GckCkzkVGgjWGYc0ZFmPHQgSef4K/lLuUnA QJ/4m1FZUtKrZ/losPmETUgTF9RC5M/u X-Received: by 10.28.105.150 with SMTP id z22mr1578386wmh.22.1502983938021; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:32:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.129 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:32:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3EA7384C-2D5D-4C00-8479-75277389DE5B@tail-f.com> References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> <6991455A-91A6-42A6-86A6-F19A95BCD133@tail-f.com> <20170817120451.syz54lblctjitbm7@elstar.local> <3EA7384C-2D5D-4C00-8479-75277389DE5B@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:32:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jan Lindblad Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11478686bab4430556f4b7a2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 15:32:22 -0000 --001a11478686bab4430556f4b7a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Jan Lindblad wrote: > >> The problem with #4 is that many clients faithfully implementing > applications based on the advertised, standard model will break. To fix the > breakage requires after the fact programmer intervention. Not very > software-defined. The long term effect is that application developers > ignore standard models since custom adaptation to each device's > implementation is required anyway, if deviations are used more than very > occasionally. > > > > I again fail to see the difference here between #4 and #5. Simple > > clients will fail in the same way. Option #4 allows smarter clients > > that are able to determine upfront that they won't work with a certain > > server. > > > > Perhaps your logic is that a smarter client will still have to expect > > that a server is not entirely implementing a model (i.e., doing #5) > > with out documenting this, and hence since the smarter client has to > > expect some servers to be 'incomplete' anyway you can equally well > > expect all of them to be 'incomplete' and skip the effort to decide > > upfront whether a server implements a model 'complete enough' for the > > client to work. > > I think we're mostly in agreement. In this case where we only talk about > optional config false leafs, the client will have to cope with any/all of > them being absent in any case. Bit masks, if-feature or deviation > not-supoprted statements are not going to change that. In that case #5 is > the leanest solution. > > I don't look at client applications the same way as you do, however. You > think a simple client is one that would fail if the YANG is randomly > deviated, while a smarter one would cope. In my experience, it's the other > way around. The really simple clients are just browsers that print whatever > they get. They don't care if something is missing, or if a leaf is of a > different type than stated in the standard YANG. It's the smart clients > that actually understand and use the returned information for complex > decisions that will fail when things deviate. > > Have you ever seen a smart client that can cope with randomly deviated > YANG models, unless a programmer has intervened and created special code > for handing that particular deviating device type? I have not. > Doesn't your client build a session-specific schema tree based on the advertised modules? Deviations are clearly better than just not returning anything. They tell the client that the missing counters are not implemented as opposed to possibly a temporary, recoverable condition. Deviations are known at session startup time but they can also be known in advance. Vendors use naming conventions to specify the platform-specific deviations. Tools like yangcatalog.org can make this process automated and de-facto standardized. > > /jan > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > --001a11478686bab4430556f4b7a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com> wrote:
>> The problem with #4= is that many clients faithfully implementing applications based on the adv= ertised, standard model will break. To fix the breakage requires after the = fact programmer intervention. Not very software-defined. The long term effe= ct is that application developers ignore standard models since custom adapt= ation to each device's implementation is required anyway, if deviations= are used more than very occasionally.
>
> I again fail to see the difference here between #4 and #5. Simple
> clients will fail in the same way. Option #4 allows smarter clients > that are able to determine upfront that they won't work with a cer= tain
> server.
>
> Perhaps your logic is that a smarter client will still have to expect<= br> > that a server is not entirely implementing a model (i.e., doing #5) > with out documenting this, and hence since the smarter client has to > expect some servers to be 'incomplete' anyway you can equally = well
> expect all of them to be 'incomplete' and skip the effort to d= ecide
> upfront whether a server implements a model 'complete enough' = for the
> client to work.

I think we're mostly in agreement. In this case where we only talk abou= t optional config false leafs, the client will have to cope with any/all of= them being absent in any case. Bit masks, if-feature or deviation not-supo= prted statements are not going to change that. In that case #5 is the leane= st solution.

I don't look at client applications the same way as you do, however. Yo= u think a simple client is one that would fail if the YANG is randomly devi= ated, while a smarter one would cope. In my experience, it's the other = way around. The really simple clients are just browsers that print whatever= they get. They don't care if something is missing, or if a leaf is of = a different type than stated in the standard YANG. It's the smart clien= ts that actually understand and use the returned information for complex de= cisions that will fail when things deviate.

Have you ever seen a smart client that can cope with randomly deviated YANG= models, unless a programmer has intervened and created special code for ha= nding that particular deviating device type? I have not.


Doesn't your client build a session-sp= ecific schema tree based on the advertised modules?

Deviations are clearly better than just not returning anything.
They tell the client that the missing counters are not implemented as oppo= sed
to possibly a temporary, recoverable condition.
Deviations are known at session startup time but they can also = be known in advance.
Vendors use naming conventions to specify th= e platform-specific deviations.
Tools like yangcatalog.org can make this process automated and de-fac= to standardized.


=C2=A0

/jan


Andy
=C2= =A0

_______________________________________________
yang-doctors mailing list
yang-doctors@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-do= ctors

Dear all,

Now implemented in the yangcatalog.org, we have the tree-type metadata.
from https://github.com/xorrkaz/netmod-yang-catalog, to be published soon in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-clacla-netmod-model-catalog/

 leaf tree-type {
     type enumeration {
       enum split {
         description
           "This module uses a split config/operational state layout.";
       }
       enum nmda-compatible {
         description
           "This module is compatible with the Network Management Datastores
            Architecture (NMDA) and combines config and operational state nodes.";
       }
       enum transitional-extra {
         description
           "This module is derived as a '-state' module to allow for transitioning
            to a full NMDA-compliant tree structure.";
       }
       enum openconfig {
         description
           "This module uses the Openconfig data element layout.";
       }
       enum unclassified {
        description
          "This module does not have a data element tree, or it does not belong to any category.";
       }
       enum not-applicable {
         description
           "This module is submodule.";
       }
     }
     description
       "The type of data element tree used by the module as it relates to the
        Network Management Datastores Architecture.";
     reference
       "draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines Guidelines for YANG Module Authors (NMDA)

Happy to see that the two following I2RS modules are "nmda-compatible"
    https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-network,2017-06-30,ietf
    https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-network-topology,2017-06-30,ietf
The following two are: transactional-extra
    https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-network-state,2017-06-30,ietf
    https://yangcatalog.org:8443/search/modules/ietf-network-state,2017-06-30,ietf

We'll work on a nicer GUI later one. The key point for now: the tree-type metadata is populated.

Regards, Benoit
--001a11478686bab4430556f4b7a2-- From nobody Thu Aug 17 08:50:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 641E513219F for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:50:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PfwlQAQLcTd0 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 945F8132144 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:50:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.147.40.126] (unknown [173.38.220.53]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 63F301AE01AA; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:50:01 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan Lindblad Message-Id: <36E052B8-9028-4EE6-A393-F68EA3EF926B@tail-f.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_04B3FB62-EBDA-432D-8864-E24DA6FA9D09" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:49:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" To: Andy Bierman References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> <6991455A-91A6-42A6-86A6-F19A95BCD133@tail-f.com> <20170817120451.syz54lblctjitbm7@elstar.local> <3EA7384C-2D5D-4C00-8479-75277389DE5B@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 15:50:05 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_04B3FB62-EBDA-432D-8864-E24DA6FA9D09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Have you ever seen a smart client that can cope with randomly deviated = YANG models, unless a programmer has intervened and created special code = for handing that particular deviating device type? I have not. >=20 >=20 > Doesn't your client build a session-specific schema tree based on the = advertised modules? >=20 > Deviations are clearly better than just not returning anything. > They tell the client that the missing counters are not implemented as = opposed > to possibly a temporary, recoverable condition. >=20 > Deviations are known at session startup time but they can also be = known in advance. > Vendors use naming conventions to specify the platform-specific = deviations. > Tools like yangcatalog.org can make this = process automated and de-facto standardized. NSO itself will be just fine, but I'm worried about the people building = applications on top of NSO, e.g. an L3VPN application. Let's say a = deviation comes up at session start, what's the application supposed to = do then? I can't think of much that doesn't involve a programmer. Declared deviations are clearly better than deviating and not telling. = But they are only really worth anything if they are known to the = application programmer before he finishes his code. Yangcatalog.org = helps, but not all modules will be there and = there's also a time dimension. Deviations found at session start are = probably not worth anything other than as triggers for that special code = someone wrote to handle the situation. I feel deviations should not be recommended lightly. In the particular = case that started this discussion, they'd bring little value. /jan --Apple-Mail=_04B3FB62-EBDA-432D-8864-E24DA6FA9D09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Have you ever seen a smart = client that can cope with randomly deviated YANG models, unless a = programmer has intervened and created special code for handing that = particular deviating device type? I have not.


Doesn't your client = build a session-specific schema tree based on the advertised = modules?

Deviations are clearly better than just not returning = anything.
They tell the client that the missing = counters are not implemented as opposed
to possibly = a temporary, recoverable condition.

Deviations are known at session startup = time but they can also be known in advance.
Vendors = use naming conventions to specify the platform-specific = deviations.
Tools like yangcatalog.org can make this process = automated and de-facto standardized.

NSO itself will be just fine, but I'm worried = about the people building applications on top of NSO, e.g. an L3VPN = application. Let's say a deviation comes up at session start, what's the = application supposed to do then? I can't think of much that doesn't = involve a programmer.

Declared = deviations are clearly better than deviating and not telling. But they = are only really worth anything if they are known to the application = programmer before he finishes his code. Yangcatalog.org helps, but not all modules will be = there and there's also a time dimension. Deviations found at session = start are probably not worth anything other than as triggers for that = special code someone wrote to handle the situation.

I feel deviations should not be recommended = lightly. In the particular case that started this discussion, they'd = bring little value.

/jan
= --Apple-Mail=_04B3FB62-EBDA-432D-8864-E24DA6FA9D09-- From nobody Thu Aug 17 08:56:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F3F1321B8 for ; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:56:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vnvlNppnXY_3 for ; 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multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114545fc5821760556f53142" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:06:22 -0000 --001a114545fc5821760556f53142 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Giles Heron (giheron) wrote: > On 17 Aug 2017, at 16:49, Jan Lindblad wrote: > > > Have you ever seen a smart client that can cope with randomly deviated >> YANG models, unless a programmer has intervened and created special code >> for handing that particular deviating device type? I have not. >> > > > Doesn't your client build a session-specific schema tree based on the > advertised modules? > > Deviations are clearly better than just not returning anything. > They tell the client that the missing counters are not implemented as > opposed > to possibly a temporary, recoverable condition. > > Deviations are known at session startup time but they can also be known i= n > advance. > Vendors use naming conventions to specify the platform-specific deviation= s. > Tools like yangcatalog.org can make this process automated and de-facto > standardized. > > > NSO itself will be just fine, but I'm worried about the people building > applications on top of NSO, e.g. an L3VPN application. Let's say a > deviation comes up at session start, what's the application supposed to d= o > then? I can't think of much that doesn't involve a programmer. > > Declared deviations are clearly better than deviating and not telling. Bu= t > they are only really worth anything if they are known to the application > programmer before he finishes his code. Yangcatalog.org > helps, but not all modules will be there and > there's also a time dimension. Deviations found at session start are > probably not worth anything other than as triggers for that special code > someone wrote to handle the situation. > > I feel deviations should not be recommended lightly. In the particular > case that started this discussion, they'd bring little value. > > > right - isn=E2=80=99t deviation supposed to be for the case where you don= =E2=80=99t > support something that implementations are generally expected to support? > > for what Helen wants features seem to be a better fit - at least to me. > > Features are intended to convey that the functionality is optional. Presumably the data model is attempting to deliver some functionality to the client developer. Features correspond well to optional protocol capabilities. Generally a single counter is not considered to be high-level functionality= . Ask the question "Why is counter FOO missing?" A1) because device XYZ does not support it A2) because it counts the FIZZBANG protocol, and that protocol is not used on every device If A1 then use deviations. If A2 then use features. > Giles > > Andy --001a114545fc5821760556f53142 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Giles Heron (giheron) <giheron@cisco.= com> wrote:
On 17 Aug 2017, at 16:49, Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com> wrote:

Have you ever seen a smart client that can cope with randomly deviated YANG= models, unless a programmer has intervened and created special code for ha= nding that particular deviating device type? I have not.


Doesn't your client build a session-specific schema tree based on = the advertised modules?

Deviations are clearly better than just not returning anything.
They tell the client that the missing counters are not implemented as = opposed
to possibly a temporary, recoverable condition.

Deviations are known at session startup time but they can also be know= n in advance.
Vendors use naming conventions to specify the platform-specific deviat= ions.
Tools like= =C2=A0yangcata= log.org=C2= =A0can make this process automated and de-facto standardized.

NSO itself will be just fine, but I'm worried about the people bui= lding applications on top of NSO, e.g. an L3VPN application. Let's say = a deviation comes up at session start, what's the application supposed = to do then? I can't think of much that doesn't involve a programmer.

Declared deviations are clearly better than deviating and not telling.= But they are only really worth anything if they are known to the applicati= on programmer before he finishes his code. Yangcatalog.org= =C2=A0helps, but not all modules will be there and there's also a time = dimension. Deviations found at session start are probably not worth anythin= g other than as triggers for that special code someone wrote to handle the situation.

I feel deviations should not be recommended lightly. In the particular= case that started this discussion, they'd bring little value.

right - isn=E2=80=99t deviation supposed to be for the case where you don= =E2=80=99t support something that implementations are generally expected to= support?

for what Helen wants features seem to be a better fit - at least to me= .


Feature= s are intended to convey that the functionality is optional.
Pres= umably the data model is attempting to deliver some functionality to the cl= ient developer.
Features correspond well to optional protocol cap= abilities.
Generally a single counter is not considered to be hig= h-level functionality.

Ask the question "Why = is counter FOO missing?"

A1) because device X= YZ does not support it

A2) because it counts the F= IZZBANG protocol, and that protocol is not used on every device
<= br>

If A1 then use deviations. If A2 then use feat= ures.


=C2=A0
Giles



Andy

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"Giles Heron (giheron)" To: Andy Bierman CC: Jan Lindblad , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , "Norm Strahle" , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Thread-Topic: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements Thread-Index: AdMWuspFVk5k9TDdRCeshA4HU2pVBgAfV2wAAAZRrAAAAQt5gAAFESYAAAIrXoAAAUHdgAAF/LyAAACeGgAAADYXgAAAW8uAAAA9sIA= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:13:12 +0000 Message-ID: <81D3CC70-013F-4D92-A53D-A6A761DF0D98@cisco.com> References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> <6991455A-91A6-42A6-86A6-F19A95BCD133@tail-f.com> <20170817120451.syz54lblctjitbm7@elstar.local> <3EA7384C-2D5D-4C00-8479-75277389DE5B@tail-f.com> <36E052B8-9028-4EE6-A393-F68EA3EF926B@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.60.71.148] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_81D3CC70013F4D92A53DA6A761DF0D98ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:13:18 -0000 --_000_81D3CC70013F4D92A53DA6A761DF0D98ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T24gMTcgQXVnIDIwMTcsIGF0IDE3OjA2LCBBbmR5IEJpZXJtYW4gPGFuZHlAeXVtYXdvcmtzLmNv bTxtYWlsdG86YW5keUB5dW1hd29ya3MuY29tPj4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCg0KDQpPbiBUaHUsIEF1ZyAx NywgMjAxNyBhdCA4OjU2IEFNLCBHaWxlcyBIZXJvbiAoZ2loZXJvbikgPGdpaGVyb25AY2lzY28u Y29tPG1haWx0bzpnaWhlcm9uQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4+IHdyb3RlOg0KT24gMTcgQXVnIDIwMTcsIGF0 IDE2OjQ5LCBKYW4gTGluZGJsYWQgPGphbmxAdGFpbC1mLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86amFubEB0YWlsLWYu 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10:21:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.129 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:21:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> <6991455A-91A6-42A6-86A6-F19A95BCD133@tail-f.com> <20170817120451.syz54lblctjitbm7@elstar.local> <3EA7384C-2D5D-4C00-8479-75277389DE5B@tail-f.com> <36E052B8-9028-4EE6-A393-F68EA3EF926B@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 10:21:13 -0700 Message-ID: To: Norm Strahle Cc: "Giles Heron (giheron)" , Jan Lindblad , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0df14056a6900556f63d3c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 17:21:19 -0000 --94eb2c0df14056a6900556f63d3c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I guess it depends on what kind of functionality is being provided to the client. In this case it looks like there is no expectation of consistency or requirement for specific functionality. Features and deviations are both probably overkill. SMIv2 has the concept of GROUP and MANDATORY-GROUP. In some ways SMIv2 conformance is much better than YANG, except SNMP never got the capability discovery right. Usually the groups have descriptions to say when a server should implement the group. If the criteria is "who knows, just implement it if you want" then the module should make that clear. Andy On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Norm Strahle wrote: > In our particular case, queue counters, there are several counters and > rates associated with a given queue (packets, bytes, transmitted, dropped= , > queued, tail drop, current depth, peak, average, max, transmit rate, drop > rate, etc.) It is easy to see where most manufactures support most, but > likely not all. So, likely all vendors would need to indicate which it i= s > not supporting. To me it would seem that a feature at least gives the > client developer the hint up-front that this item is not required to be > supported and to handle the case. There is no clue from a model that a > deviation is likely, so no way to anticipate. So, wouldn=E2=80=99t a feat= ure be > better in this case than a deviation? > > > > *From:* Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2017 12:06 PM > *To:* Giles Heron (giheron) > *Cc:* Jan Lindblad ; yang-doctors@ietf.org; Ing-Wher > Chen ; Norm Strahle ; > Aseem Choudhary (asechoud) > *Subject:* Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional > statements > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Giles Heron (giheron) > wrote: > > On 17 Aug 2017, at 16:49, Jan Lindblad wrote: > > > > Have you ever seen a smart client that can cope with randomly deviated > YANG models, unless a programmer has intervened and created special code > for handing that particular deviating device type? I have not. > > > > > > Doesn't your client build a session-specific schema tree based on the > advertised modules? > > > > Deviations are clearly better than just not returning anything. > > They tell the client that the missing counters are not implemented as > opposed > > to possibly a temporary, recoverable condition. > > > > Deviations are known at session startup time but they can also be known i= n > advance. > > Vendors use naming conventions to specify the platform-specific deviation= s. > > Tools like yangcatalog.org can make this process automated and de-facto > standardized. > > > > NSO itself will be just fine, but I'm worried about the people building > applications on top of NSO, e.g. an L3VPN application. Let's say a > deviation comes up at session start, what's the application supposed to d= o > then? I can't think of much that doesn't involve a programmer. > > > > Declared deviations are clearly better than deviating and not telling. Bu= t > they are only really worth anything if they are known to the application > programmer before he finishes his code. Yangcatalog.org > helps, but not all modules will be there and > there's also a time dimension. Deviations found at session start are > probably not worth anything other than as triggers for that special code > someone wrote to handle the situation. > > > > I feel deviations should not be recommended lightly. In the particular > case that started this discussion, they'd bring little value. > > > > right - isn=E2=80=99t deviation supposed to be for the case where you don= =E2=80=99t > support something that implementations are generally expected to support? > > > > for what Helen wants features seem to be a better fit - at least to me. > > > > > > Features are intended to convey that the functionality is optional. > > Presumably the data model is attempting to deliver some functionality to > the client developer. > > Features correspond well to optional protocol capabilities. > > Generally a single counter is not considered to be high-level > functionality. > > > > Ask the question "Why is counter FOO missing?" > > > > A1) because device XYZ does not support it > > > > A2) because it counts the FIZZBANG protocol, and that protocol is not use= d > on every device > > > > > > If A1 then use deviations. If A2 then use features. > > > > > > > > Giles > > > > > > > > Andy > > > --94eb2c0df14056a6900556f63d3c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I guess it depends on what kind of = functionality is being provided to the client.
In this case it lo= oks like there is no expectation of consistency or requirement
fo= r specific functionality. Features and deviations are both probably overkil= l.

SMIv2 has the concept of GROUP and MANDATORY-GR= OUP.
In some ways SMIv2 conformance is much better than YANG,
except SNMP never got the capability discovery right.

=
Usually the groups have descriptions to say when a server should= implement the group.
If the criteria is "who knows, just im= plement it if you want" then the module should make
that cle= ar.


Andy

=

On Thu, Aug 17, 2= 017 at 9:15 AM, Norm Strahle <nstrahle@juniper.net> wrote= :

In our particular case, queue counter= s, there are several counters and rates associated with a given queue (pack= ets, bytes, transmitted, dropped, queued, tail drop, current depth, peak, average, max, transmit rate, drop rate, etc.)= =C2=A0 It is easy to see where most manufactures support most, but likely n= ot all.=C2=A0 So, likely all vendors would need to indicate which it is not= supporting.=C2=A0 To me it would seem that a feature at least gives the client developer the hint up-front that this item is no= t required to be supported and to handle the case.=C2=A0 There is no clue f= rom a model that a deviation is likely, so no way to anticipate. So, wouldn= =E2=80=99t a feature be better in this case than a deviation?

=C2=A0

From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 12:06 PM
To: Giles Heron (giheron) <giheron@cisco.com>
Cc: Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com>; yang-doctors@ietf.org; Ing-Wher Chen <Ing-Wher_Chen@jabil.com&g= t;; Norm Strahle <nstrahle@juniper.net>; Aseem Choudhary (asechoud) <asechoud@cisco.com> Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional = statements

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

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On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Giles Heron (gihero= n) <giheron@cisco= .com> wrote:

On 17 Aug 2017, at 16:49, Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com> wrote= :

=C2=A0

Have you ever seen a smart client that can cop= e with randomly deviated YANG models, unless a programmer has intervened an= d created special code for handing that particular deviating device type? I have not.

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Doesn't your client build a session-specif= ic schema tree based on the advertised modules?

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Deviations are clearly better than just not re= turning anything.

They tell the client that the missing counters= are not implemented as opposed

to possibly a temporary, recoverable condition= .

=C2=A0

Deviations are known at session startup time b= ut they can also be known in advance.

Vendors use naming conventions to specify the = platform-specific deviations.

Tools like=C2=A0yangcatalog.org=C2=A0can make this process automated and de-facto standardized.

=C2=A0

NSO itself will be just fine, but I'm worried ab= out the people building applications on top of NSO, e.g. an L3VPN applicati= on. Let's say a deviation comes up at session start, what's the app= lication supposed to do then? I can't think of much that doesn't involve a programmer.

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Declared deviations are clearly better than deviatin= g and not telling. But they are only really worth anything if they are know= n to the application programmer before he finishes his code. Yangcatalog.org= =C2=A0helps, but not all modules will be there and there's also a time = dimension. Deviations found at session start are probably not worth anythin= g other than as triggers for that special code someone wrote to handle the situation.

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I feel deviations should not be recommended lightly.= In the particular case that started this discussion, they'd bring litt= le value.

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right - isn=E2=80=99t deviation supposed to be for t= he case where you don=E2=80=99t support something that implementations are = generally expected to support?

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for what Helen wants features seem to be a better fi= t - at least to me.

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Features are intended to convey that the functionali= ty is optional.

Presumably the data model is attempting to deliver s= ome functionality to the client developer.

Features correspond well to optional protocol capabi= lities.

Generally a single counter is not considered to be h= igh-level functionality.

=C2=A0

Ask the question "Why is counter FOO missing?&q= uot;

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A1) because device XYZ does not support it=

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A2) because it counts the FIZZBANG protocol, and tha= t protocol is not used on every device

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If A1 then use deviations. If A2 then use features.<= u>

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=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Giles

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0


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Thu, 17 Aug 2017 12:02:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.129 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Aug 2017 12:02:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 12:02:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Jan Lindblad , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045cf6e4198e520556f7a9c8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 19:03:01 -0000 --f403045cf6e4198e520556f7a9c8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > I believe a feature for every counter is a misuse of YANG feature > > statements, it will get horribly ugly. I recently observe an increase > > of feature statement usage in order to accomodate server > > implementations and the ultimate solution is a feature statement for > > every leaf, list, rpc, action, notification and perhaps even certain > > value sets. This is ridiculous, but a feature for every counter is > > getting damn close to it. > > This is a programmatic API. I appreciate the concern for a bloat of > bits on the wire, but recall that features are listed in yang-library, > a very special module that has a built-in ETag-like hashing mechanism > to allow for efficient comparisons. I don't see the bloat issue here. > > Having feature statements everywhere may be ridiculous, but not illegal. > Implementations need to be able to handle it already, right? > > good points. They all apply equally to deviations and features. I think the way you used features in the client-server set of modules is a good example for solving this sort of problem. The if-feature-stmts are on containers, not individual leafs. I don't think special objects that return which other objects are implemented is good because it is not a generalized solution. A better approach would be to enhance the protocols so "not-implemented" and "temp-unavailable" exceptions can be returned on request (ala with-defaults) > Kent > > Andy > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > --f403045cf6e4198e520556f7a9c8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:



> I believe a feature for every counter is a misuse of YANG feature
> statements, it will get horribly ugly. I recently observe an increase<= br> > of feature statement usage in order to accomodate server
> implementations and the ultimate solution is a feature statement for > every leaf, list, rpc, action, notification and perhaps even certain > value sets. This is ridiculous, but a feature for every counter is
> getting damn close to it.

This is a programmatic API.=C2=A0 I appreciate the concern for a bloat of bits on the wire, but recall that features are listed in yang-library,
a very special module that has a built-in ETag-like hashing mechanism
to allow for efficient comparisons.=C2=A0 I don't see the bloat issue h= ere.

Having feature statements everywhere may be ridiculous, but not illegal. Implementations need to be able to handle it already, right?


good points.
They all apply = equally to deviations and features.

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([2601:19b:880:14c8:e112:3d26:3c0b:2c19]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m11sm3110131qkm.0.2017.08.18.12.02.36 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 18 Aug 2017 12:02:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Bogdanovic Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_50E88C6B-5B08-4DAC-8645-C9DDE04AF3D0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <3ECE1319-255E-4B06-BF97-F4EAFFC3D8B5@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 15:02:36 -0400 To: YANG Doctors X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [yang-doctors] Review of draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-15 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 19:02:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_50E88C6B-5B08-4DAC-8645-C9DDE04AF3D0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Reviewer: Dean Bogdanovic Review result: Ready with caveat Modules: ietf-zerotouch-information.yang ietf-zerotouch-bootstrap-server.yang YANG Usage: I did not find anything wrong in any module, but there are no tools to = valid usage of YANG data, which is used by = ietf-zerotouch-information.yang module. So couldn=E2=80=99t get full validation of the module with pyang and = lintyang tools. Comments: 1. As stated above, couldn=E2=80=99t get the full validation with the = tools of the modules, but looking through the code and the draft, the = authors are following the general recommendations by = draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines. Saying that, am fine with moving the draft = along, but this is an issues that has to be addressed very soon, as = there will be more drafts using YANG data that will not be able to get = validated. 2. I couldn=E2=80=99t see how this modules would work well with = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model. That draft describes how different virtual = systems with different administrators can run on the same HW. How can we = boot different versions of SW (lnes) to run on the HW? Or should it = state that this draft has no plans to support use cases described in = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model. Regards, Dean --Apple-Mail=_50E88C6B-5B08-4DAC-8645-C9DDE04AF3D0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Reviewer: Dean Bogdanovic
Review result: Ready = with caveat


Modules:
ietf-zerotouch-information.yang
ietf-zerotouch-bootstrap-server.yang

YANG Usage:

I did not find anything wrong in any module, but there are no = tools to valid usage of YANG data, which is used by = ietf-zerotouch-information.yang module.
So = couldn=E2=80=99t get full validation of the module with pyang and = lintyang tools.

Comments:
1. As stated above, couldn=E2=80=99t = get the full validation with the tools of the modules, but looking = through the code and the draft, the authors are following the general = recommendations by draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines. Saying that, am fine with = moving the draft along, but this is an issues that has to be addressed = very soon, as there will be more drafts using YANG data that will not be = able to get validated.

2. I couldn=E2=80=99t see how this modules would work well = with draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model. That draft describes how different = virtual systems with different administrators can run on the same HW. = How can we boot different versions of SW (lnes) to run on the HW? Or = should it state that this draft has no plans to support use cases = described in draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model.

Regards,

Dean



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Sun, 20 Aug 2017 10:03:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 10:03:01 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: YANG Doctors , "netmod@ietf.org" , Rodney Cummings Message-ID: <20170820080301.asf2fx6o4abupq4h@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , YANG Doctors , "netmod@ietf.org" , Rodney Cummings References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Identities vs enums X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 08:03:07 -0000 On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 07:02:04PM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > All, > In the context iana-routing-types.yang, we’ve been having a discussion of the merits of identities vs enums. We’ve followed the lead of RFC 7224 and used identities which allow augmentation. However, for IANA code points, there could be merit in having the type represent the actual numeric value. Any thoughts on this? > > In the next version of YANG, it would be useful for a base identity to allow it to have a "base-type" (mutually exclusive of "identity-ref"). For all identities a "base-value" would be allowed as long as it conformed to the constraints of the actual or inherited (via “identity-ref”) “base-type”. > The question here really is who is charge of controlling assignments of a name space. - If there is a single authority controlling the assignments, an enum works fine. - If the assignments are not controlled by a single authority, an identity works fine. We sometimes have situations that are somewhere in between, i.e., a central authority controlling assignments but delegating parts of the name space to other authoritities. I agree, we do not have good support to model this explicitly in YANG today. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Aug 21 07:46:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE502132626 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 07:46:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0fi6twTYJ3ov for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 09:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22c.google.com (mail-wr0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01CCA132A74 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 09:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id 30so31088624wrk.0 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 09:26:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=iWP2T82Cvb4FmoTPRlUGR01bZtTtG92d+C6ANlmJfIk=; b=oRtB4IuiQf2dyskYJDhkCTWAmzo7kRCtp5mB3hqaUM/dAhm+968gLBQPdwDKV9HWRc btedxovl/j95zAYUfaov5HMLxFtJ1Jugneg4tkx4ThkavfubW8OBXqEdqY4VxfVTslv1 m1AhCto+0kvVL0sV0lbzOmipkhFRNtocsTXsGgf3wXqTGC2dT7uHi2TEDPMv7taG4m+A CD+4NbUWid/a9u9d2gQq2nK2+HlqAHIqPyVP+Md5JXgk+k2FEijADgtQMrvMxTKNgRoH 2hMVEAQfxdU/pMAjApkDjv+x1p4vlRR+nFj164a0sZopJ9pXCssYy3F/EViW9PaEjgCy I5qA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=iWP2T82Cvb4FmoTPRlUGR01bZtTtG92d+C6ANlmJfIk=; b=kwh0nRuluRk0gb2K4uBN4nmEckJm2LdhaSRB1iApIfBIEFDQf/ENfxSPE8rEd7ODjc mRWmjnyvSjEC8PglM54WnIKw5g0PXvGZ+9gMmw/+1basOAT0vmanHN3xEV9y3Tp9oj0v b20iSMEVDtsMsXl9X83O8fvkYHkA41o13/kAZQyl8mJeGUEGyLfDqaxkLwqPPEi5AK5L 9zWLIUMZzYRw9nHP9owgAJaCLgnRF2XY9hn3m+tRetSgp7UYodso9Yto5A5zsoSBraKi 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List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 16:26:21 -0000 --f403045f219c1faeac055745f046 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > Trimming down to just the still-open discussion points. > > Thanks, > Kent > > > >>> You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance. > >>> We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and "purely optional, > >>> server developer's choice". We have nothing like conditionally > >>> mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on TLS , then > >>> the listen-tls feature MUST be supported." > >> > >>This seems unnecessary. Already the 'if-feature' statements will > >>force the server to advertise the features - or else they're not > >>configurable! > > > > Nothing forces the server to developer to implement a particular object, > > because features are purely optional. The description-stmt in the feature > > can make this conditional requirement. But not a big deal > > because the IETF is too server-centric to care about the client POV > > of YANG conformance. > > I don't see this as a big deal. Regardless, it's not for this draft > to resolve, right? > > > right > > > > > > >>>>> C5: > >>>> > >>>> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a GET > >>>> or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like logs > >>> > >>> Okay, how about this? > >>> > >>> "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server, so that, > >>> e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs) > >>> from the RESTCONF server. The RESTCONF client must > >>> close the connection when it is ready to release it. > >>> Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF client > >>> restarts its timer until the next connection."; > >> > >> Not sure this is needed. > >> RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated > >> by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain > >> this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in the 2nd sentence. > > > > Oh, now I see your concern, how about this? (I removed the sentence > > altogether): > > > > "Periodically connect to the RESTCONF client, so that > > the RESTCONF client may deliver messages pending for > > the RESTCONF server. Once the connection has been > > closed, for whatever reason, the server will restart > > its timer until the next connection."; > > > > I would change messages to requests > > Done. > > > > > >>>>> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session. > >>>>> > >>>>> POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netconf:close-session > >>>>> > >>>>> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF? > >>>> > >>>> First, I don't view the above as an exception. With regards to > >>>> 'close-session', does it even have a meaning in RESTCONF? - and > >>>> is this actually an issue for RFC 8040? > >>> > >>> RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation > >>> resources. It is left as an implementation detail. Our server > >>> treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a > >>> NETCONF operation like is granted and then released right > >>> afterwards by the server because the session is terminated. I > >>> think any standard behavior for application layer sessions would > >>> need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF. > >> > >> Okay, but can you connect this to the draft? Are you asking for > >> a change, or are you actually thinking about a clarification > >> needed for RFC 8040? > > > > not asking for a change. > > It is currently up to the implementation. > > For example CGI will call the server once for each request but > > Fast-CGI will call the thin-client once for each HTTP session > > and call the server over and over for each request on that > > session. > > Okay, I'll consider this issue closed then. > > > > > Andy > > Kent > > > > --f403045f219c1faeac055745f046 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
Hi Andy,

Trimming down to just the still-open discussion points.

Thanks,
Kent


>>> You know I am not a big fan of YANG conformance.
>>> We have nothing in between "always mandatory" and &q= uot;purely optional,
>>> server developer's choice".=C2=A0 We have nothing lik= e conditionally
>>> mandatory "If the RESTCONF server supports listening on T= LS , then
>>> the listen-tls feature MUST be supported."
>>
>>This seems unnecessary.=C2=A0 Already the 'if-feature' stat= ements will
>>force the server to advertise the features - or else they're no= t
>>configurable!
>
> Nothing forces the server to developer to implement a particular objec= t,
> because features are purely optional. The description-stmt in the feat= ure
> can make this conditional requirement.=C2=A0 But not a big deal
> because the IETF is too server-centric to care about the client POV > of YANG conformance.

I don't see this as a big deal.=C2=A0 Regardless, it's not for this= draft
to resolve, right?
=C2=A0


right
=C2=A0





>>>>> C5:
>>>>
>>>> It should be clear that the client would have to issue a G= ET
>>>> or maybe POST to initiate the sending of stored data like = logs
>>>
>>> Okay, how about this?
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF server,= so that,
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 e.g., the RESTCONF client can collect data (logs)=
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 from the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 The RESTCONF clie= nt must
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 close the connection when it is ready to release = it.
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Once the connection is closed, the RESTCONF clien= t
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restarts its timer until the next connection.&quo= t;;
>>
>> Not sure this is needed.
>> RESTCONF does not define any interactions that are not initiated >> by the client, but if that changes, then no reason to constrain >> this text. I would change 'must' to 'SHOULD' in th= e 2nd sentence.
>
> Oh, now I see your concern, how about this?=C2=A0 (I removed the sente= nce
> altogether):
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Periodically connect to the RESTCONF client, = so that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the RESTCONF client may deliver messages pending f= or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 Once the connection has= been
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 closed, for whatever reason, the server will resta= rt
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 its timer until the next connection.";
>
> I would change messages to requests

Done.

=C2=A0


>>>>> This is 1 exception -- another is close-session.
>>>>>
>>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0POST /restconf/operations/ietf-netcon= f:close-session
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this supposed to do anything in RESTCONF?
>>>>
>>>> First, I don't view the above as an exception.=C2=A0 W= ith regards to
>>>> 'close-session', does it even have a meaning in RE= STCONF?=C2=A0 - and
>>>> is this actually an issue for RFC 8040?
>>>
>>> RESTCONF does not specify any behavior for specific operation<= br> >>> resources.=C2=A0 It is left as an implementation detail.=C2=A0= Our server
>>> treats each RESTCONF request as a new management session, so a=
>>> NETCONF operation like <lock> is granted and then releas= ed right
>>> afterwards by the server because the session is terminated.=C2= =A0 I
>>> think any standard behavior for application layer sessions wou= ld
>>> need to be defined in a new versions of RESTCONF.
>>
>> Okay, but can you connect this to the draft?=C2=A0 Are you asking = for
>> a change, or are you actually thinking about a clarification
>> needed for RFC 8040?
>
> not asking for a change.
> It is currently up to the implementation.
> For example CGI will call the server once for each request but
> Fast-CGI will call the thin-client once for each HTTP session
> and call the server over and over for each request on that
> session.

Okay, I'll consider this issue closed then.



> Andy

Kent




--f403045f219c1faeac055745f046-- From nobody Mon Aug 21 10:08:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE17132A85 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:08:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WJ3eCsiomZ34 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67C8B132192 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FD18375; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:08:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id pl1VbmiOb3aq; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:08:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:08:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F97200E0; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:08:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5c_ZLSdAbtS5; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:08:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24C88200DF; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:08:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id B9DF64045FE5; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:08:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:08:33 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: Jan Lindblad , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Message-ID: <20170821170833.nh2mi5mnqd2zrd3k@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Jan Lindblad , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:08:40 -0000 On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 06:17:08PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > I believe a feature for every counter is a misuse of YANG feature > > statements, it will get horribly ugly. I recently observe an increase > > of feature statement usage in order to accomodate server > > implementations and the ultimate solution is a feature statement for > > every leaf, list, rpc, action, notification and perhaps even certain > > value sets. This is ridiculous, but a feature for every counter is > > getting damn close to it. > > This is a programmatic API. I appreciate the concern for a bloat of > bits on the wire, but recall that features are listed in yang-library, > a very special module that has a built-in ETag-like hashing mechanism > to allow for efficient comparisons. I don't see the bloat issue here. > > Having feature statements everywhere may be ridiculous, but not illegal. > Implementations need to be able to handle it already, right? > Perhaps not illegal, but a misuse of the intention of the concept. A single leaf is not what we considered a feature. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Aug 21 10:17:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 793DF132A7C; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:17:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UMUt8V85cbSI; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A447913232C; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:17:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 16so85574305qtz.4; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:17:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=vWz6DsvAVqxPo4vJQLvVSckI/A/iMOYtZZ3wHhLipNw=; b=MH7VvINoGEBpGtDRZa8OC8gS6g2Duqy1UsyQlQBLVRpHfw1r1FTRSeXTWQHbHSwTfz Kwx8lJdkCkDdlmnay97tmP6v6CjarnQ7NIQobwia1PSXdLHMaX9Q/9WUJF6epfHowUcc 1fmSso123UKaz6IKcRty9l3XKcpzs4DeaGO7dPsZ58HYTc1+2pDXlZ0/f8u9Rj8sWuIt hhjtWhop4VHAW4syMOtJIBDO8Y0rLMyHtD+8M+VWHgJOx6gQUhYs2us9tuOmIxqhtKnQ edgvODZdwRIMAs7QNWGOs5S5hHYWPcZEnLdbtw9t1dmxp4MtEt90VGgtigUqD+VI8fwD wUzw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=vWz6DsvAVqxPo4vJQLvVSckI/A/iMOYtZZ3wHhLipNw=; b=aheV98QX+Kn9J7jI3QOJsY2ICwy1GtfWTB2g5XAb+/3RsMaBf8hjSgxpk9gpI0eFHL qD58K8vusZ3nzickpHOI4M5qiK7b6u0YPT77PxLhPg102b+8+3xq0eLpevlPQfMRHtDr bDOWH2mvUjgNmcoN3TvGe0MdG3uVlVUyyJqtnKokjOq16ORG7k5lM6wlLC0B7079SGJ/ dsbPnSFoGLZw8IeQwvAjkIxuBIO7ttEWNlvyCPGJ0pcnANmsp43LrYxBMGi4tLbIsiV3 XhJZdM82ceXnwnxHG8wXf711rKt8iw9+gEJZyOUAH4RJ/TFauJVmytitOCh/+DpegoIc e0jA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5gEVY3yiWu1l8VnDADQXAKZHJfCZQqyMkE2Rinl8GwtLsKzLWm7 hJyF5hWyGyWb6g== X-Received: by 10.200.51.79 with SMTP id u15mr5272173qta.53.1503335825733; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.128.129] ([144.121.38.165]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t1sm8603388qkb.91.2017.08.21.10.17.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:17:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Bogdanovic Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_41F310E7-744F-4768-A84A-35067EDE6B41" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:17:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: <611FE2EF-F273-44E9-A738-0E3653D8A788@juniper.net> Cc: YANG Doctors , "netconf@ietf.org" To: Kent Watsen References: <3ECE1319-255E-4B06-BF97-F4EAFFC3D8B5@gmail.com> <611FE2EF-F273-44E9-A738-0E3653D8A788@juniper.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Review of draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch-15 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:17:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_41F310E7-744F-4768-A84A-35067EDE6B41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Kent, > On Aug 21, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > [CC-ing netconf] > =20 > Hi Dean, > =20 > Thanks for your review. > =20 > 1) validating yang-data examples directly is currently not possible. = Neither is validating RESTCONF examples. But my knowledge is limited to = `pyang` (which doesn't validate 1.1-examples at all) and `yanglint` = (which has fairly complete validation ability) > =20 > 2) the need for zerotouch support for LNEs needs to be discussed by = the WG. My personal experience is that only the host-system needs = zerotouch bootstrapping, but I can imagine zerotouch being useful to = support VNFs, or virtual-machines in general. Supporting VMs is = possible with the current draft, but it entails the hypervisor being = able to verify the VM image ("secure boot") and allocate a virtual = IDevID certificate to the VM, both of which are out of scope for this = draft. Do you think we should add an "applicability statement" in the = beginning, or perhaps to Section 5.1, something like this: > =20 > This document primarily regards physical devices, where the setting > of the initial "factory default" state occurs during the device's > manufacturing process. However, the zerotouch solution may be > extensible to virtual machines whereby, for instance, the = host-system > has an IDevID certificate and some ability to verify the virtual > machine's image before loading it and also provision a just-in-time > IDevID certificate. Details for how this may be accomplished can = be > defined in future work. Yes, I agree with this comment, as is specify more narrowly the = intention on how to use the modules. Dean > =20 > Thoughts? > =20 > Kent > =20 > =20 > On 8/18/17, 3:02 PM, "yang-doctors on behalf of Dean Bogdanovic" = on = behalf of ivandean@gmail.com > wrote: > =20 > Reviewer: Dean Bogdanovic > Review result: Ready with caveat >=20 >=20 > Modules:=20 > ietf-zerotouch-information.yang > ietf-zerotouch-bootstrap-server.yang > =20 > YANG Usage: >=20 > I did not find anything wrong in any module, but there are no tools to = valid usage of YANG data, which is used by = ietf-zerotouch-information.yang module. > So couldn=E2=80=99t get full validation of the module with pyang and = lintyang tools. >=20 > Comments: > 1. As stated above, couldn=E2=80=99t get the full validation with the = tools of the modules, but looking through the code and the draft, the = authors are following the general recommendations by = draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines. Saying that, am fine with moving the draft = along, but this is an issues that has to be addressed very soon, as = there will be more drafts using YANG data that will not be able to get = validated. > =20 > 2. I couldn=E2=80=99t see how this modules would work well with = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model. That draft describes how different virtual = systems with different administrators can run on the same HW. How can we = boot different versions of SW (lnes) to run on the HW? Or should it = state that this draft has no plans to support use cases described in = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model. > =20 > Regards, > =20 > Dean > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_41F310E7-744F-4768-A84A-35067EDE6B41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Kent,

On = Aug 21, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>= wrote:

[CC-ing netconf]
 
Hi Dean,
 
Thanks for = your review.
 
1) = validating yang-data examples directly is currently not possible.  = Neither is validating RESTCONF examples.  But my knowledge is = limited to `pyang` (which doesn't validate 1.1-examples at all) and = `yanglint` (which has fairly complete validation ability)
 
2) the need = for zerotouch support for LNEs needs to be discussed by the = WG.   My personal experience is that only the host-system = needs zerotouch bootstrapping, but I can imagine zerotouch being useful = to support VNFs, or virtual-machines in general.   Supporting = VMs is possible with the current draft, but it entails the hypervisor = being able to verify the VM image ("secure boot") and allocate a virtual = IDevID certificate to the VM, both of which are out of scope for this = draft.   Do you think we should add an "applicability = statement" in the beginning, or perhaps to Section 5.1, something like = this:
 
   = This document primarily regards physical devices, where the setting
   of the initial = "factory default" state occurs during the device's
   manufacturing = process.  However, the zerotouch solution may be
   extensible to = virtual machines whereby, for instance, the host-system
   has an IDevID = certificate and some ability to verify the virtual
   machine's image = before loading it and also provision a just-in-time
   IDevID = certificate.  Details for how this may be accomplished can be
   defined in = future work.

Yes, I agree with this comment, as is specify more = narrowly the intention on how to use the modules.

Dean

 
Thoughts?
 
Kent
 
 
On 8/18/17, 3:02 PM, "yang-doctors on behalf of = Dean Bogdanovic" <yang-doctors-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of ivandean@gmail.com> = wrote:
 
Reviewer: Dean Bogdanovic
Review = result: Ready with caveat


Modules: 
ietf-zerotouch-information.yang
ietf-zerotouch-bootstrap-server.yang
 
YANG Usage:

I did not find anything wrong in any module, but there are no = tools to valid usage of YANG data, which is used by = ietf-zerotouch-information.yang module.
So couldn=E2=80=99t get full validation of the module with = pyang and lintyang tools.

Comments:
1. As stated above, couldn=E2=80=99t get the full validation = with the tools of the modules, but looking through the code and the = draft, the authors are following the general recommendations by = draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines. Saying that, am fine with moving the draft = along, but this is an issues that has to be addressed very soon, as = there will be more drafts using YANG data that will not be able to get = validated.
 
2. I couldn=E2=80=99t see = how this modules would work well with draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model. That = draft describes how different virtual systems with different = administrators can run on the same HW. How can we boot different = versions of SW (lnes) to run on the HW? Or should it state that this = draft has no plans to support use cases described in = draft-ietf-rtgwg-lne-model.
 
Regards,
 
Dean
 
 

 

= --Apple-Mail=_41F310E7-744F-4768-A84A-35067EDE6B41-- From nobody Mon Aug 21 10:21:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3871323C9 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:21:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yXyyDPPfWq5h for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:21:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E817212700F for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:21:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6BA299; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:21:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id FyQqidN_byCi; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:21:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:21:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70471200E1; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:21:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3y1y2KwIjOnf; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:21:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F34200DF; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:21:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E9CC14046027; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:21:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 19:21:28 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Norm Strahle Cc: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , Jan Lindblad , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" Message-ID: <20170821172128.ftogpej4jifxbt7m@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Norm Strahle , Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , Jan Lindblad , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:21:33 -0000 On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 12:59:10PM +0000, Norm Strahle wrote: > Hey folks, Appreciate all the feedback. We discussed yesterday among diffserv-ietf modelers yesterday and had a couple comments: > > > · We liked explicit statements (deviations, features, flag-bits) rather than implicit – i.e. option 5 – of vendors leaving unsupported leaves out of containers > > · We think if-features or the “bit” flag mechanism are better than deviations, as it at least allows clients to anticipate up front that some items may not be supported. A decent implementation will expect deviations, deviations are always possible. I think there is a circular argument here, which boils down to "we do not want to use deviations because we do not want to process deviations". > · One advantage of using the “bit” flag mechanism – i.e. option 2 - over features is that this allows a vendor to specify per-interface what is supported. What features a vendor supports for diffserv is very hardware dependent and may vary from interface to interface within a single device. A device may have multiple types and generations of line cards, and thus, the types of stats supported will be different. The bit-flag mechanism allows a device to reflect that to the client explicitly. > As long as we talk about non-mandatory counters, simply not reporting counters that do not exist seems to be the most simple solution. If you want to tell clients upfront that a counter will never exist, use the deviation mechanism. This is why we have it. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Aug 21 10:33:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D05651323C9 for ; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:33:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vgLcYtV3pjbO for ; 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d="scan'208";a="283651014" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 21 Aug 2017 17:33:34 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-001.cisco.com (xch-rtp-001.cisco.com [64.101.220.141]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7LHXYeJ025000 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:33:34 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-001.cisco.com (64.101.220.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:33:33 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 21 Aug 2017 13:33:33 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Norm Strahle CC: "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen Thread-Topic: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements Thread-Index: AdMWuspFVk5k9TDdRCeshA4HU2pVBgAfV2wAAAZRrAAAAQt5gAAUPP0AAAGZewAAJZZHAACgCPQA///ARQA= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:33:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> <20170821172128.ftogpej4jifxbt7m@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20170821172128.ftogpej4jifxbt7m@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.201] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 17:33:38 -0000 DQoNCk9uIDgvMjEvMTcsIDE6MjEgUE0sICJ5YW5nLWRvY3RvcnMgb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIEp1ZXJn ZW4gU2Nob2Vud2FlbGRlciINCjx5YW5nLWRvY3RvcnMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyBvbiBiZWhh bGYgb2YNCmouc2Nob2Vud2FlbGRlckBqYWNvYnMtdW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZT4gd3JvdGU6DQoNCj5P biBGcmksIEF1ZyAxOCwgMjAxNyBhdCAxMjo1OToxMFBNICswMDAwLCBOb3JtIFN0cmFobGUgd3Jv dGU6DQo+PiBIZXkgZm9sa3MsIEFwcHJlY2lhdGUgYWxsIHRoZSBmZWVkYmFjay4gIFdlIGRpc2N1 c3NlZCB5ZXN0ZXJkYXkgYW1vbmcNCj4+ZGlmZnNlcnYtaWV0ZiBtb2RlbGVycyB5ZXN0ZXJkYXkg YW5kIGhhZCBhIGNvdXBsZSBjb21tZW50czoNCj4+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiDCtyAgICAgICBXZSBsaWtl ZCBleHBsaWNpdCBzdGF0ZW1lbnRzIChkZXZpYXRpb25zLCBmZWF0dXJlcywgZmxhZy1iaXRzKQ0K Pj5yYXRoZXIgdGhhbiBpbXBsaWNpdCDigJMgaS5lLiBvcHRpb24gNSDigJMgb2YgdmVuZG9ycyBs ZWF2aW5nIHVuc3VwcG9ydGVkDQo+PmxlYXZlcyBvdXQgb2YgY29udGFpbmVycw0KPj4gDQo+PiDC tyAgICAgICBXZSB0aGluayBpZi1mZWF0dXJlcyBvciB0aGUg4oCcYml04oCdIGZsYWcgbWVjaGFu aXNtIGFyZSBiZXR0ZXINCj4+dGhhbiBkZXZpYXRpb25zLCBhcyBpdCBhdCBsZWFzdCBhbGxvd3Mg Y2xpZW50cyB0byBhbnRpY2lwYXRlIHVwIGZyb250DQo+PnRoYXQgc29tZSBpdGVtcyBtYXkgbm90 IGJlIHN1cHBvcnRlZC4NCj4NCj5BIGRlY2VudCBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiB3aWxsIGV4cGVjdCBk ZXZpYXRpb25zLCBkZXZpYXRpb25zIGFyZSBhbHdheXMNCj5wb3NzaWJsZS4gSSB0aGluayB0aGVy ZSBpcyBhIGNpcmN1bGFyIGFyZ3VtZW50IGhlcmUsIHdoaWNoIGJvaWxzIGRvd24NCj50byAid2Ug ZG8gbm90IHdhbnQgdG8gdXNlIGRldmlhdGlvbnMgYmVjYXVzZSB3ZSBkbyBub3Qgd2FudCB0byBw cm9jZXNzDQo+ZGV2aWF0aW9ucyIuDQo+IA0KPj4gwrcgICAgICAgT25lIGFkdmFudGFnZSBvZiB1 c2luZyB0aGUg4oCcYml04oCdIGZsYWcgbWVjaGFuaXNtIOKAkyBpLmUuIG9wdGlvbiAyDQo+Pi0g b3ZlciBmZWF0dXJlcyBpcyB0aGF0IHRoaXMgYWxsb3dzIGEgdmVuZG9yIHRvIHNwZWNpZnkgcGVy LWludGVyZmFjZQ0KPj53aGF0IGlzIHN1cHBvcnRlZC4gIFdoYXQgZmVhdHVyZXMgYSB2ZW5kb3Ig c3VwcG9ydHMgZm9yIGRpZmZzZXJ2IGlzIHZlcnkNCj4+aGFyZHdhcmUgZGVwZW5kZW50IGFuZCBt YXkgdmFyeSBmcm9tIGludGVyZmFjZSB0byBpbnRlcmZhY2Ugd2l0aGluIGENCj4+c2luZ2xlIGRl dmljZS4gQSBkZXZpY2UgbWF5IGhhdmUgbXVsdGlwbGUgdHlwZXMgYW5kIGdlbmVyYXRpb25zIG9m IGxpbmUNCj4+Y2FyZHMsIGFuZCB0aHVzLCB0aGUgdHlwZXMgb2Ygc3RhdHMgc3VwcG9ydGVkIHdp bGwgYmUgZGlmZmVyZW50LiBUaGUNCj4+Yml0LWZsYWcgbWVjaGFuaXNtIGFsbG93cyBhIGRldmlj ZSB0byByZWZsZWN0IHRoYXQgdG8gdGhlIGNsaWVudA0KPj5leHBsaWNpdGx5Lg0KPj4NCj4NCj5B cyBsb25nIGFzIHdlIHRhbGsgYWJvdXQgbm9uLW1hbmRhdG9yeSBjb3VudGVycywgc2ltcGx5IG5v dCByZXBvcnRpbmcNCj5jb3VudGVycyB0aGF0IGRvIG5vdCBleGlzdCBzZWVtcyB0byBiZSB0aGUg bW9zdCBzaW1wbGUgc29sdXRpb24uDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgZXhhY3RseSB3aGF0IHdlIGFyZSBkb2lu ZyBpbiBtYW55IFJvdXRpbmcgWUFORyBtb2RlbHMuDQoNCg0KPiBJZiB5b3Ugd2FudCB0byB0ZWxs IGNsaWVudHMgdXBmcm9udCB0aGF0IGEgY291bnRlciB3aWxsIG5ldmVyIGV4aXN0LCB1c2UNCj50 aGUgZGV2aWF0aW9uIG1lY2hhbmlzbS4gVGhpcyBpcyB3aHkgd2UgaGF2ZSBpdC4NCg0KSSB3b3Vs ZCB0aGluayBhIGNsaWVudCBjb3VsZCBhc2NlcnRhaW4gdGhhdCBhIGNvdW50ZXIgaXMgbm90IHN1 cHBvcnRlZCBpZg0KaXQgaXMgbm90IHJldHVybmVkLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpBY2VlIA0KDQoNCg0K Pg0KPi9qcw0KPg0KPi0tIA0KPkp1ZXJnZW4gU2Nob2Vud2FlbGRlciAgICAgICAgICAgSmFjb2Jz IFVuaXZlcnNpdHkgQnJlbWVuIGdHbWJIDQo+UGhvbmU6ICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDM1ODcgICAgICAg ICBDYW1wdXMgUmluZyAxIHwgMjg3NTkgQnJlbWVuIHwgR2VybWFueQ0KPkZheDogICArNDkgNDIx IDIwMCAzMTAzICAgICAgICAgPGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuamFjb2JzLXVuaXZlcnNpdHkuZGUvPg0KPg0K Pl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+eWFuZy1k b2N0b3JzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPnlhbmctZG9jdG9yc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8veWFuZy1kb2N0b3JzDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Aug 21 13:06:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FEA9132AB0 for ; 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Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:06:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 22:06:17 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" Cc: Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen Message-ID: <20170821200617.kwczcxvzodluho3u@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Norm Strahle , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" , "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> <20170821172128.ftogpej4jifxbt7m@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 20:06:23 -0000 On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 05:33:33PM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > I would think a client could ascertain that a counter is not supported if > it is not returned. > In practice yes, in theory not. (The counter might not be returned due to a lack of permissions). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Aug 22 06:38:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietf.org Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F227132397; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:38:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Martin Bjorklund To: Cc: draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.58.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 06:38:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 13:38:14 -0000 Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund Review result: Ready with Issues Hi, I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document. Here are my comments: o Section 2 says: The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a small number of YANG schema, including the models specified in the following documents: o [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] o [RFC6991] Is the intention that *only* these models are included, or *at least* these models are included? RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don't think it needs to be listed. I suggest you are a bit more specific, and list: o ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] o ietf-mud [...] o Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in other places as well). YANG uses the term "data node" or "node". Or "YANG data node". I suggest you use one of these terms, and import the term in your Terminology section. Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" to refer to "device": leaf is-supported { type boolean; description "The element is currently supported by the manufacturer."; } o In your Terminology section you introduce the term "Thing". But the text often use "device". Maybe use "device" consistently? o In order to get consistent indentation of the YANG modules, I suggest you run: pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang (and same for ietf-acldns.yang) o Ensure that description statements contain proper sentences. Also ensure that the descriptions are descriptive. As an example of the latter, this is not a good description: description "Which way are we talking about?"; In general, I found that the main document had better descriptions than the YANG module. Consider moving the text from the main document to the YANG module (this also reduces the risk of inconsistencies). If don't want to move text, I think you need to spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the YANG module. o In both modules, make sure you have a single revision statement. Note that in IETF-terms, a revision statement is added when a new version of the module is publsihed as an RFC (so the initial RFC would have one revision statement). o The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines configuration data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a normal NETCONF/RESTCONF server. Rather, it will be instantiated in a JSON file. I think this should be stated in the description of the module. o I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessary. It is only used to make the acl augment conditional on the feature. I think that if this module is supported, the feature is also supported. Or do you envision implementations of this module that would not support this feature? If so, maybe you can explain that use case in the document. o leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statement: units "hours"; o I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists" to "access-lists" for consitency. o Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory? o The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for extensions. It would be usefule to mention this registry by name. Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA Considerations section? o Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction". There is no such leaf in the YANG module. There is one called "direction-initiated" though. But since the "/device" container contains two different ACL sets, one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentation really necessary? o The model has: leaf local-networks { type empty; description "this string is used to indicate networks considered local in a given environment."; This leaf is of type "empty", but the description says it is a string. Also, what is the format of this string? (Hmm, I think the description is wrong, this should indeed be type empty). o Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of "ietf-mud" that is used as the schema for a MUD file? I.e., something like a leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainfo" container. o The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has some camelCase node names. From nobody Tue Aug 22 07:03:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415C113239C; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 07:03:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 182b4q95RZPe; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 07:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49FA8132256; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 07:03:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6478; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1503410597; x=1504620197; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=d9d8Mq96mwc9t/tmEaS5iAXD1bie9SbJJQB/mbuueU8=; b=RsI6h5muAOtBGwJXm4YAlbkNQ+Znb7vXTr5GNebWQC+wb3J/zZ25VtyF 8SFSkphIDJTaVEb2FUr+x4VyhTu6y6vD0BZ8YUVS43F8Q+ivcCn71HDkd dZGZakCWsNbKi/vi7cwkYp8vUS6i2DHYzt6nFnZqWYYjf6+VBZm8cMUNe M=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DYAABKOJxZ/xbLJq1cGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBk2Z0kHAilh+CEgeFQAKEYxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUZAQUjVhALDgoqAgJ?= =?us-ascii?q?XBgEMCAEBii2sVoImi10BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQERD4MqhTErC4JxhEwRg?= =?us-ascii?q?ymCQh8FigqHEI87hDOCIYRWiRmLSocWlikfOIEKMiEIHBVJhxw+iQqCQQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,412,1498521600"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="696684402" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Aug 2017 14:03:12 +0000 Received: from [10.61.78.225] (ams3-vpn-dhcp3809.cisco.com [10.61.78.225]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7ME3COT012371; Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:03:12 GMT To: Martin Bjorklund , yang-doctors@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 16:03:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="akLgnsE2FgsC8XkWr2VSJDKJHqoeJROo5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:03:21 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --akLgnsE2FgsC8XkWr2VSJDKJHqoeJROo5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="NpalEjFVgXifh93lfTC01Xe8A7jvkTiBf"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Martin Bjorklund , yang-doctors@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> --NpalEjFVgXifh93lfTC01Xe8A7jvkTiBf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Thanks, Martin, for your timely review.=C2=A0 We'll sort through the issu= es and come back to the group and to you. Eliot On 8/22/17 3:38 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund > Review result: Ready with Issues > > Hi, > > I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document. Here are > my comments: > > > o Section 2 says: > > The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a > small number of YANG schema, including the models specified in the > following documents: > > o [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > o [RFC6991] > > Is the intention that *only* these models are included, or *at > least* these models are included? > > RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don't think it needs to > be listed. I suggest you are a bit more specific, and list: > > o ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > o ietf-mud [...] > > > o Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in other places as > well). YANG uses the term "data node" or "node". Or "YANG data > node". I suggest you use one of these terms, and import the term > in your Terminology section. > > Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" to refer to "device": > > leaf is-supported { > type boolean; > description > "The element is currently supported > by the manufacturer."; > } > > > o In your Terminology section you introduce the term "Thing". But > the text often use "device". Maybe use "device" consistently? > > > o In order to get consistent indentation of the YANG modules, I > suggest you run: > > pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang > > (and same for ietf-acldns.yang) > > > o Ensure that description statements contain proper sentences. Also > ensure that the descriptions are descriptive. As an example of the > latter, this is not a good description: > > description > "Which way are we talking about?"; > > In general, I found that the main document had better descriptions > than the YANG module. Consider moving the text from the main > document to the YANG module (this also reduces the risk of > inconsistencies). If don't want to move text, I think you need to > spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the YANG module. > > > o In both modules, make sure you have a single revision > statement. Note that in IETF-terms, a revision statement is added > when a new version of the module is publsihed as an RFC (so the > initial RFC would have one revision statement). > > > o The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines configuration > data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a normal > NETCONF/RESTCONF server. Rather, it will be instantiated in a JSON > file. I think this should be stated in the description of the > module. > > > o I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessary. It is only used > to make the acl augment conditional on the feature. I think that > if this module is supported, the feature is also supported. Or do > you envision implementations of this module that would not support > this feature? If so, maybe you can explain that use case in the > document. > > > o leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statement: > > units "hours"; > > > o I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists" to "access-lists" > for consitency. > > > o Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory? > > > o The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for > extensions. It would be usefule to mention this registry by name. > > Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA Considerations > section? > > > o Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction". There is no such > leaf in the YANG module. There is one called "direction-initiated" > though. > > But since the "/device" container contains two different ACL sets, > one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentation really > necessary? > > > o The model has: > > leaf local-networks { > type empty; > description > "this string is used to indicate networks > considered local in a given environment."; > > This leaf is of type "empty", but the description says it is a > string. > > Also, what is the format of this string? (Hmm, I think the > description is wrong, this should indeed be type empty). > > > o Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of "ietf-mud" > that is used as the schema for a MUD file? I.e., something like a > leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainfo" container. > > > o The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has some > camelCase node names. > > > --NpalEjFVgXifh93lfTC01Xe8A7jvkTiBf-- --akLgnsE2FgsC8XkWr2VSJDKJHqoeJROo5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZnDmhAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozuF8IAJflk0XAvIHFQa3NvYedOnOc jNobKsTSD+0ho/uJ8zgMd+J/91VO5fziC4VOXq70Rba0LAYHI8kF4lxJWKd/s2O9 uaCvy+VXeTHf+wk+RcE+2rpguL3iMRlueUeRqVlXPWTCb+/RlqALUsgSv676zhUP WB/SpFGrUAdbUxANkqrxqi1AThcwsBK/Da6d5f7Kmd+RtA91YX11MEcommaW3HCp AYrwSNXsZro9cHcM5in8IPibkI+ZzeF2OfB94g93VmTuRUweLsM0TzbWH+S3rAsi wTtWkSq8Ht8rPpSLjtrTCy9LKhd5a3Z6nel7hNXb8bdeGwcu4Ig3JfvZg/mKSqU= =XHvi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --akLgnsE2FgsC8XkWr2VSJDKJHqoeJROo5-- From nobody Wed Aug 23 01:06:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B73E3132BC7; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:06:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LyQKZgtSlt7F; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6856132196; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 01:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-40-225.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [94.254.40.225]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 15ADB1AE01AA; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 10:05:58 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 10:06:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170823.100659.305891042923397070.mbj@tail-f.com> To: yang-doctors@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 08:06:04 -0000 Hi, I would like to direct the YANG doctors attention to one design choice in this document: The document defines a normal "config true" data model, but this data model is not intended to be implemented by a server, but rather it defines the file format of a "MUD file". This idea is not new, it is used e.g. in the anima voucher document. Normally, we would require that they use "rc:yang-data" to define such a structure. However, the MUD file is supposed to contain some top-level nodes defined in the MUD YANG module, and also some /acl:access-lists nodes. So even if the MUD document could define a rc:yang-data structure for the top-level nodes defined in the MUD document, it cannot get the access lists into this rc:yang-data structure. So the question to the YANG doctors is if this is ok, or if there is a better way to define this file format. /martin Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund > Review result: Ready with Issues > > Hi, > > I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document. Here are > my comments: > > > o Section 2 says: > > The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a > small number of YANG schema, including the models specified in the > following documents: > > o [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > o [RFC6991] > > Is the intention that *only* these models are included, or *at > least* these models are included? > > RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don't think it needs to > be listed. I suggest you are a bit more specific, and list: > > o ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > o ietf-mud [...] > > > o Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in other places as > well). YANG uses the term "data node" or "node". Or "YANG data > node". I suggest you use one of these terms, and import the term > in your Terminology section. > > Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" to refer to "device": > > leaf is-supported { > type boolean; > description > "The element is currently supported > by the manufacturer."; > } > > > o In your Terminology section you introduce the term "Thing". But > the text often use "device". Maybe use "device" consistently? > > > o In order to get consistent indentation of the YANG modules, I > suggest you run: > > pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang > > (and same for ietf-acldns.yang) > > > o Ensure that description statements contain proper sentences. Also > ensure that the descriptions are descriptive. As an example of the > latter, this is not a good description: > > description > "Which way are we talking about?"; > > In general, I found that the main document had better descriptions > than the YANG module. Consider moving the text from the main > document to the YANG module (this also reduces the risk of > inconsistencies). If don't want to move text, I think you need to > spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the YANG module. > > > o In both modules, make sure you have a single revision > statement. Note that in IETF-terms, a revision statement is added > when a new version of the module is publsihed as an RFC (so the > initial RFC would have one revision statement). > > > o The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines configuration > data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a normal > NETCONF/RESTCONF server. Rather, it will be instantiated in a JSON > file. I think this should be stated in the description of the > module. > > > o I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessary. It is only used > to make the acl augment conditional on the feature. I think that > if this module is supported, the feature is also supported. Or do > you envision implementations of this module that would not support > this feature? If so, maybe you can explain that use case in the > document. > > > o leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statement: > > units "hours"; > > > o I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists" to "access-lists" > for consitency. > > > o Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory? > > > o The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for > extensions. It would be usefule to mention this registry by name. > > Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA Considerations > section? > > > o Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction". There is no such > leaf in the YANG module. There is one called "direction-initiated" > though. > > But since the "/device" container contains two different ACL sets, > one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentation really > necessary? > > > o The model has: > > leaf local-networks { > type empty; > description > "this string is used to indicate networks > considered local in a given environment."; > > This leaf is of type "empty", but the description says it is a > string. > > Also, what is the format of this string? (Hmm, I think the > description is wrong, this should indeed be type empty). > > > o Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of "ietf-mud" > that is used as the schema for a MUD file? I.e., something like a > leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainfo" container. > > > o The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has some > camelCase node names. > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > From nobody Wed Aug 23 09:59:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C3C120721 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:59:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O5mhChSUDnum for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22e.google.com (mail-wm0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29CA4124B18 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id l19so3182414wmi.1 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:59:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LODwwBWKdXn3Wvvesch3ADh9faXW0854ofVGvQoq+oI=; b=MMyc7wvY+AxNEcaxYhdA201OoDSGA94TRiItLMii4ZzRiQRPt6W0Sm7WrNeynTsJ5S ksSa9fHN3CEeT/QJtlH8pe+OF2Kouef4gepAMymPclssg3U2gg1aA71DDR+CeVEYoDWr cXV9YTyh8OG3ddKdqmrS8MLVN7hJ+We/KqHiiQxxfOF87Tr/hiXuEkiwcmLChI3sXMFh EmeAXMUB+DxminN+k0x7BLOvc3tWMMeyXlZPhmQtf5TWPxgqrcBsnq2c3QycgYcXE/bB iTxqePWxsSfPnAl36kWOithOoTl3zI5G9B17z5yf12lrTu9sWP/k59grJhcPfuww7g/R CKbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LODwwBWKdXn3Wvvesch3ADh9faXW0854ofVGvQoq+oI=; b=ra7qphDVix8Zmkob47rhNTNtdOoAn2tDsz2w6rS/ihfCVdweqwc/k+eRdkazFCPWND JoflpiFE22isgb3IarmBfKFbjG0d8zkLhLMLcnwrhtRbBvzN0EORAhecykkWLWg6WAQ3 NF0B2rk93Z4MeHwx5D+24F06A9QvGpVmeqCKApVjthBX1vSimDOarqDJplUVs+8EKZmO dBtB/yzMUbx0ehsm1z6L4uL0VAdFEHYvpgGoGnsCzYDESooYSgif2zzZoUgam4pJGsZ9 M3IfdqB2K/RjFPrEYYNSNPPgFpitLhuOU0XPUrGPMepb+NXCDRXHfvBiEMazyiNmP1By U5Sw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5hknsn0ZwVyfBvw/sx7LzXXZpO9I/PledlBpiSl73YjDxop00zA rmlr7do8cr8vbdFMdwH2yOA4PCeaUKVY X-Received: by 10.28.16.133 with SMTP id 127mr1939770wmq.75.1503507583633; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:59:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.221 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:59:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170823.100659.305891042923397070.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170823.100659.305891042923397070.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:59:42 -0700 Message-ID: To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: YANG Doctors , draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146d95070dd1105576ea32b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 16:59:49 -0000 --001a1146d95070dd1105576ea32b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to direct the YANG doctors attention to one design choice > in this document: > > The document defines a normal "config true" data model, but this data > model is not intended to be implemented by a server, but rather it > defines the file format of a "MUD file". > > This idea is not new, it is used e.g. in the anima voucher document. > Normally, we would require that they use "rc:yang-data" to define such > a structure. > > However, the MUD file is supposed to contain some top-level nodes > defined in the MUD YANG module, and also some /acl:access-lists > nodes. So even if the MUD document could define a rc:yang-data > structure for the top-level nodes defined in the MUD document, it > cannot get the access lists into this rc:yang-data structure. > > So the question to the YANG doctors is if this is ok, or if there is a > better way to define this file format. > > Why is it a problem to use a grouping in rc:yang-data? This clearly needs to be rc:yang-data, not a real module with config=true objects. I think the artifact can contain data that matches the structure of config data. It is an implementation detail to convert the artifact to config data in a datastore. > > /martin > > > Andy > > Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund > > Review result: Ready with Issues > > > > Hi, > > > > I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document. Here are > > my comments: > > > > > > o Section 2 says: > > > > The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a > > small number of YANG schema, including the models specified in the > > following documents: > > > > o [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > > > o [RFC6991] > > > > Is the intention that *only* these models are included, or *at > > least* these models are included? > > > > RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don't think it needs to > > be listed. I suggest you are a bit more specific, and list: > > > > o ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > > > o ietf-mud [...] > > > > > > o Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in other places as > > well). YANG uses the term "data node" or "node". Or "YANG data > > node". I suggest you use one of these terms, and import the term > > in your Terminology section. > > > > Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" to refer to "device": > > > > leaf is-supported { > > type boolean; > > description > > "The element is currently supported > > by the manufacturer."; > > } > > > > > > o In your Terminology section you introduce the term "Thing". But > > the text often use "device". Maybe use "device" consistently? > > > > > > o In order to get consistent indentation of the YANG modules, I > > suggest you run: > > > > pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang > > > > (and same for ietf-acldns.yang) > > > > > > o Ensure that description statements contain proper sentences. Also > > ensure that the descriptions are descriptive. As an example of the > > latter, this is not a good description: > > > > description > > "Which way are we talking about?"; > > > > In general, I found that the main document had better descriptions > > than the YANG module. Consider moving the text from the main > > document to the YANG module (this also reduces the risk of > > inconsistencies). If don't want to move text, I think you need to > > spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the YANG module. > > > > > > o In both modules, make sure you have a single revision > > statement. Note that in IETF-terms, a revision statement is added > > when a new version of the module is publsihed as an RFC (so the > > initial RFC would have one revision statement). > > > > > > o The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines configuration > > data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a normal > > NETCONF/RESTCONF server. Rather, it will be instantiated in a JSON > > file. I think this should be stated in the description of the > > module. > > > > > > o I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessary. It is only used > > to make the acl augment conditional on the feature. I think that > > if this module is supported, the feature is also supported. Or do > > you envision implementations of this module that would not support > > this feature? If so, maybe you can explain that use case in the > > document. > > > > > > o leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statement: > > > > units "hours"; > > > > > > o I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists" to "access-lists" > > for consitency. > > > > > > o Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory? > > > > > > o The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for > > extensions. It would be usefule to mention this registry by name. > > > > Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA Considerations > > section? > > > > > > o Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction". There is no such > > leaf in the YANG module. There is one called "direction-initiated" > > though. > > > > But since the "/device" container contains two different ACL sets, > > one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentation really > > necessary? > > > > > > o The model has: > > > > leaf local-networks { > > type empty; > > description > > "this string is used to indicate networks > > considered local in a given environment."; > > > > This leaf is of type "empty", but the description says it is a > > string. > > > > Also, what is the format of this string? (Hmm, I think the > > description is wrong, this should indeed be type empty). > > > > > > o Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of "ietf-mud" > > that is used as the schema for a MUD file? I.e., something like a > > leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainfo" container. > > > > > > o The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has some > > camelCase node names. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > yang-doctors mailing list > > yang-doctors@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > --001a1146d95070dd1105576ea32b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Martin Bjorklund <= ;mbj@tail-f.com>= wrote:
Hi,

I would like to direct the YANG doctors attention to one design choice
in this document:

The document defines a normal "config true" data model, but this = data
model is not intended to be implemented by a server, but rather it
defines the file format of a "MUD file".

This idea is not new, it is used e.g. in the anima voucher document.
Normally, we would require that they use "rc:yang-data" to define= such
a structure.

However, the MUD file is supposed to contain some top-level nodes
defined in the MUD YANG module, and also some /acl:access-lists
nodes.=C2=A0 So even if the MUD document could define a rc:yang-data
structure for the top-level nodes defined in the MUD document, it
cannot get the access lists into this rc:yang-data structure.

So the question to the YANG doctors is if this is ok, or if there is a
better way to define this file format.


Why is it a problem to use a grouping = in rc:yang-data?
This clearly needs to be rc:yang-data, not a rea= l module with config=3Dtrue objects.
I think the artifact can con= tain data that matches the structure of config data.
It is an imp= lementation detail to convert the artifact to config data in a datastore.

=C2=A0

/martin



Andy
=C2=A0

Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com&g= t; wrote:
> Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund
> Review result: Ready with Issues
>
> Hi,
>
> I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document.=C2=A0 Here = are
> my comments:
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Section 2 says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 small number of YANG schema, including the models specifi= ed in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 following documents:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [RFC6991]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is the intention that *only* these models are included, o= r *at
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 least* these models are included?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don't= think it needs to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be listed.=C2=A0 I suggest you are a bit more specific, a= nd list:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-= acl-model]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-mud [...]
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in oth= er places as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 well).=C2=A0 YANG uses the term "data node" or = "node".=C2=A0 Or "YANG data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 node".=C2=A0 I suggest you use one of these terms, a= nd import the term
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in your Terminology section.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" t= o refer to "device":
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf is-supported {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type boolean;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The element is currently suppor= ted
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by the manufacturer.";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>
>
> o=C2=A0 In your Terminology section you introduce the term "Thing= ".=C2=A0 But
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the text often use "device".=C2=A0 Maybe use &q= uot;device" consistently?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 In order to get consistent indentation of the YANG modules, I<= br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 suggest you run:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (and same for ietf-acldns.yang)
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Ensure that description statements contain proper sentences.= =C2=A0 Also
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ensure that the descriptions are descriptive.=C2=A0 As an= example of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 latter, this is not a good description:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Which way are we talking about?";=
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In general, I found that the main document had better des= criptions
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 than the YANG module.=C2=A0 Consider moving the text from= the main
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document to the YANG module (this also reduces the risk o= f
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 inconsistencies).=C2=A0 If don't want to move text, I= think you need to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the YANG = module.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 In both modules, make sure you have a single revision
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 statement.=C2=A0 Note that in IETF-terms, a revision stat= ement is added
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 when a new version of the module is publsihed as an RFC (= so the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 initial RFC would have one revision statement).
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it define= s configuration
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a= normal
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NETCONF/RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 Rather, it will be instant= iated in a JSON
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 file.=C2=A0 I think this should be stated in the descript= ion of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 module.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessary= .=C2=A0 It is only used
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to make the acl augment conditional on the feature.=C2=A0= I think that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if this module is supported, the feature is also supporte= d.=C2=A0 Or do
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 you envision implementations of this module that would no= t support
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this feature?=C2=A0 If so, maybe you can explain that use= case in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statement: >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 units "hours";
>
>
> o=C2=A0 I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists" to = "access-lists"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for consitency.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory?=
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry= for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 extensions.=C2=A0 It would be usefule to mention this reg= istry by name.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA = Considerations
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 section?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction".=C2= =A0 There is no such
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf in the YANG module.=C2=A0 There is one called "= direction-initiated"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 though.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But since the "/device" container contains two = different ACL sets,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 one for "to" and one for "from", is t= his augmentation really
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 necessary?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The model has:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf local-networks {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type empty;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"this string is used to i= ndicate networks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 considered local in a given e= nvironment.";
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This leaf is of type "empty", but the descripti= on says it is a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 string.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, what is the format of this string?=C2=A0 (Hmm, I th= ink the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description is wrong, this should indeed be type empty).<= br> >
>
> o=C2=A0 Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of "= ;ietf-mud"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that is used as the schema for a MUD file?=C2=A0 I.e., so= mething like a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainf= o" container.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has some >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 camelCase node names.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> yang-doctors mailing list
> yang-doctors@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ya= ng-doctors
>

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--001a1146d95070dd1105576ea32b-- From nobody Wed Aug 23 12:46:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6451323FD for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:46:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xhv_phHL8DPK for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x232.google.com (mail-wm0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C453132192 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x232.google.com with SMTP id r134so6216556wmf.0 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:46:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=9VRftAyTDOnL4vVPBWXBnzgBjjSIta4zvFAPCWY3O7o=; b=U6vCI4Z6Mh20tx3ZvNDkoaZzyKY/x894YSVswGcs7jDLRpqlfnic24eIdXo1KX79J8 1srzcZfLTRDHEDOLN3YzV3dx9FbshWoTHklqYAOXpCP3fJ7BL7jif9pv9dDIhw7p3/SF /bSiXiLo06RaPpd87I7nJcAVZrohxz9/jU4gO/L/WQxnK43xoGEzym4esv0yGiFwXrfb NPlW8fRfqJEPG7ds6VuuDosrI7mTn0iniIXiioM9MnaICVh+rJjAGu6hNfNFKAZHHDGj If09fnCggGtRLvAQIgKA15t50ED2WQN4ZTwd0AW3amCW+Q1y39cZ/xRKdbStn9JwOQ1a 80lA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=9VRftAyTDOnL4vVPBWXBnzgBjjSIta4zvFAPCWY3O7o=; b=UlOIX3NnGGeF2G7YmtOdNAUdgyhXg3jcgX5Lef3qtjMdlzhSF/bCukH/EzA9PiDOzB Y4bnP5HuWFkhFv3kDlQAUfRii1t8jx6YgTWPcTWCr6bqWImNRjoHOdwyud+R8OZTA/sW TCBz/dQ5mRnftJIwPT7KoBV7jOXqAeD4d06Rod+v6undbIA3H3pBlA/yArLGtCK7TK0b LHLBUyHGwYgisJUzqtu8JnQ2biGyXtWmX+ADgJuSp3xvFxckKAfx+jwfMBOWsshFk3R8 SrLxAjZR/OY/xQHePC8GwGEcy6xUBlsN0LfgevmB5aWzNHFcpIycUaQtJFw1Zd7uuo72 hhYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5glRgcIP2hsp9dRAs9nUHyEmhsNgvLEzKx5nRWVeSYB+zehH8q8 tPS4677izbhSZyQcsTXfLn/QfJpAsG4r X-Received: by 10.28.101.5 with SMTP id z5mr2724325wmb.136.1503517598515; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:46:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.221 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:46:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170820080301.asf2fx6o4abupq4h@elstar.local> References: <20170820080301.asf2fx6o4abupq4h@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 12:46:37 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , YANG Doctors , "netmod@ietf.org" , Rodney Cummings Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b31165ffb5b055770f8be" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Identities vs enums X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 19:46:43 -0000 --001a114b31165ffb5b055770f8be Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 1:03 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 07:02:04PM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > All, > > In the context iana-routing-types.yang, we=E2=80=99ve been having a dis= cussion > of the merits of identities vs enums. We=E2=80=99ve followed the lead of = RFC 7224 > and used identities which allow augmentation. However, for IANA code > points, there could be merit in having the type represent the actual > numeric value. Any thoughts on this? > > > > In the next version of YANG, it would be useful for a base identity to > allow it to have a "base-type" (mutually exclusive of "identity-ref"). Fo= r > all identities a "base-value" would be allowed as long as it conformed to > the constraints of the actual or inherited (via =E2=80=9Cidentity-ref=E2= =80=9D) =E2=80=9Cbase-type=E2=80=9D. > > > > The question here really is who is charge of controlling assignments > of a name space. > > - If there is a single authority controlling the assignments, an enum > works fine. > > - If the assignments are not controlled by a single authority, an > identity works fine. > > We sometimes have situations that are somewhere in between, i.e., a > central authority controlling assignments but delegating parts of the > name space to other authoritities. I agree, we do not have good > support to model this explicitly in YANG today. > > I think Acee is asking about a new feature that does not exist in YANG, which is to add an enum value-stmt to an identity-stmt somehow. Seems like a valid use-case. It is easy to be confused into thinking the "value" and "position" assignments have any relevance to the protocols, but unfortunately they do not (for NETCONF and RESTCONF). Think of them as "reference" statements, to identify conceptual codepoints that are never sent on the wire. Only the enum or bit names are sent on the wire in XML or JSON. Actually CORE WG is developing YANG-to-CBOR, which does use the value and position fields for the binary encoding. /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > --001a114b31165ffb5b055770f8be Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 1:03 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 07:02:04PM +0000, Acee Linde= m (acee) wrote:
> All,
> In the context iana-routing-types.yang, we=E2=80=99ve been having a di= scussion of the merits of identities vs enums. We=E2=80=99ve followed the l= ead of RFC 7224 and used identities which allow augmentation. However, for = IANA code points, there could be merit in having the type represent the act= ual numeric value. Any thoughts on this?
>
> In the next version of YANG, it would be useful for a base identity to= allow it to have a "base-type" (mutually exclusive of "iden= tity-ref"). For all identities a "base-value" would be allow= ed as long as it conformed to the constraints of the actual or inherited (v= ia =E2=80=9Cidentity-ref=E2=80=9D) =E2=80=9Cbase-type=E2=80=9D.
>

The question here really is who is charge of controlling assignments
of a name space.

- If there is a single authority controlling the assignments, an enum
=C2=A0 works fine.

- If the assignments are not controlled by a single authority, an
=C2=A0 identity works fine.

We sometimes have situations that are somewhere in between, i.e., a
central authority controlling assignments but delegating parts of the
name space to other authoritities. I agree, we do not have good
support to model this explicitly in YANG today.


I think Acee is asking about a new feature that does= not exist in YANG, which is to add
an enum value-stmt to an iden= tity-stmt somehow.=C2=A0 Seems like a valid use-case.

<= div>It is easy to be confused into thinking the "value" and "= ;position" assignments have any
relevance to the protocols, = but unfortunately they do not (for NETCONF and RESTCONF).
Think o= f them as "reference" statements, to identify conceptual codepoin= ts that are never
sent on the wire. Only the enum or bit names ar= e sent on the wire in XML or JSON.

Actually CORE W= G is developing YANG-to-CBOR, which does use the value
and positi= on fields for the binary encoding.=C2=A0


/js


Andy
=C2=A0
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

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yang-doctors mailing list
yang-doctors@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-do= ctors

--001a114b31165ffb5b055770f8be-- From nobody Wed Aug 23 13:36:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDCA213218E; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:36:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tHqFuB0B1_Lp; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9AF1120720; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:36:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=25985; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1503520574; x=1504730174; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=Fr6l+YOhgMRVbtdQnInKAuLc4SODVxAHZFhH1EzUajc=; b=AlL4xX//etVflHcmZT2HcTwlIxCzjX0U4X9Mk/Or4BGZJhCpyXaRCTUe 7+dAjt1yM4s/Ol3a331yl/4Z//X7HeJGtbew7Zlv2sZZrJorzX6wVBrJS 7MFAwKhSj5IgwuTEEdqeMkoWC1dVPjxPIMyg0h84KMS0bn1sTPWFsZ0T2 s=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C1AAAJ551Z/49dJa1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1pkgRWOFJAWgXCWJIISBxoBCoUbAoRGPxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?ZAQEBAwEBIUsLEAkCGCcDAgInHxEGAQwGAgEBii0QkQ+dZoImJ4s6AQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBDgoFgyqCAoMvK4J8hEwRgymCQh8BBIc2glSHEY89hDS?= =?us-ascii?q?CIYRWg1WFRItOhxaWLh84P0syIQgcFUmEXoI+PjaIQIJBAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,417,1498521600"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="474138885" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Aug 2017 20:36:04 +0000 Received: from [10.82.222.249] (rtp-vpn3-1778.cisco.com [10.82.222.249]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7NKa2fD019822; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:36:03 GMT To: Andy Bierman , Martin Bjorklund Cc: YANG Doctors , draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170823.100659.305891042923397070.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: <5942c1cd-111c-16db-5a5c-dc26ebd8ca1d@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:36:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="gFHhft6TnIEMHuIMMVQJDUCS5CkBVV0ut" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:36:18 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --gFHhft6TnIEMHuIMMVQJDUCS5CkBVV0ut Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Th1x6aIHsbaBatnKI8HWVbvn1iXg3soe8"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Andy Bierman , Martin Bjorklund Cc: YANG Doctors , draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org Message-ID: <5942c1cd-111c-16db-5a5c-dc26ebd8ca1d@cisco.com> Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170823.100659.305891042923397070.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: --Th1x6aIHsbaBatnKI8HWVbvn1iXg3soe8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7BC40B7EF97E85F2F2D24126" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7BC40B7EF97E85F2F2D24126 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Andy, It probably *does* make sense (it didn't and then we reorged a bit). Eliot On 8/23/17 6:59 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Martin Bjorklund > wrote: > > Hi, > > I would like to direct the YANG doctors attention to one design cho= ice > in this document: > > The document defines a normal "config true" data model, but this da= ta > model is not intended to be implemented by a server, but rather it > defines the file format of a "MUD file". > > This idea is not new, it is used e.g. in the anima voucher document= =2E > Normally, we would require that they use "rc:yang-data" to define s= uch > a structure. > > However, the MUD file is supposed to contain some top-level nodes > defined in the MUD YANG module, and also some /acl:access-lists > nodes.=C2=A0 So even if the MUD document could define a rc:yang-dat= a > structure for the top-level nodes defined in the MUD document, it > cannot get the access lists into this rc:yang-data structure. > > So the question to the YANG doctors is if this is ok, or if there i= s a > better way to define this file format. > > > Why is it a problem to use a grouping in rc:yang-data? > This clearly needs to be rc:yang-data, not a real module with > config=3Dtrue objects. > I think the artifact can contain data that matches the structure of > config data. > It is an implementation detail to convert the artifact to config data > in a datastore. > > =C2=A0 > > > /martin > > > > Andy > =C2=A0 > > > Martin Bjorklund > wrote: > > Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund > > Review result: Ready with Issues > > > > Hi, > > > > I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document.=C2=A0 = Here are > > my comments: > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Section 2 says: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 small number of YANG schema, including the models sp= ecified > in the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 following documents: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [RFC6991] > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is the intention that *only* these models are includ= ed, or *at > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 least* these models are included? > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don't th= ink it > needs to > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be listed.=C2=A0 I suggest you are a bit more specif= ic, and list: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-ne= tmod-acl-model] > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-mud [...] > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in other pl= aces as > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 well).=C2=A0 YANG uses the term "data node" or "node= ".=C2=A0 Or "YANG data > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 node".=C2=A0 I suggest you use one of these terms, a= nd import the term > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in your Terminology section. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" to ref= er to > "device": > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf is-supported { > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type boolean; > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The element is currently suppor= ted > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by the manufacturer."; > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0} > > > > > > o=C2=A0 In your Terminology section you introduce the term "Thing= ".=C2=A0 But > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the text often use "device".=C2=A0 Maybe use "device= " consistently? > > > > > > o=C2=A0 In order to get consistent indentation of the YANG module= s, I > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 suggest you run: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (and same for ietf-acldns.yang) > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Ensure that description statements contain proper sentenc= es.=C2=A0 > Also > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ensure that the descriptions are descriptive.=C2=A0 = As an example > of the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 latter, this is not a good description: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Which way are we talking about?"; > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In general, I found that the main document had bette= r > descriptions > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 than the YANG module.=C2=A0 Consider moving the text= from the main > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document to the YANG module (this also reduces the r= isk of > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 inconsistencies).=C2=A0 If don't want to move text, = I think you > need to > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the = YANG module. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 In both modules, make sure you have a single revision > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 statement.=C2=A0 Note that in IETF-terms, a revision= statement is > added > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 when a new version of the module is publsihed as an = RFC (so the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 initial RFC would have one revision statement). > > > > > > o=C2=A0 The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines > configuration > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented= by a normal > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NETCONF/RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 Rather, it will be in= stantiated in > a JSON > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 file.=C2=A0 I think this should be stated in the des= cription of the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 module. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessary.=C2=A0 I= t is only > used > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to make the acl augment conditional on the feature.=C2= =A0 I think that > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if this module is supported, the feature is also sup= ported.=C2=A0 > Or do > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 you envision implementations of this module that wou= ld not > support > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this feature?=C2=A0 If so, maybe you can explain tha= t use case in the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statement: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 units "hours"; > > > > > > o=C2=A0 I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists" to > "access-lists" > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for consitency. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory? > > > > > > o=C2=A0 The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 extensions.=C2=A0 It would be usefule to mention thi= s registry by > name. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA= > Considerations > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 section? > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction".=C2=A0 The= re is no such > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf in the YANG module.=C2=A0 There is one called > "direction-initiated" > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 though. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But since the "/device" container contains two diffe= rent ACL > sets, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentatio= n really > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 necessary? > > > > > > o=C2=A0 The model has: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf local-networks { > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type empty; > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"this string is used to i= ndicate networks > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 considered local in a gi= ven environment."; > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This leaf is of type "empty", but the description sa= ys it is a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 string. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, what is the format of this string?=C2=A0 (Hmm,= I think the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description is wrong, this should indeed be type emp= ty). > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of > "ietf-mud" > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that is used as the schema for a MUD file?=C2=A0 I.e= =2E, something > like a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainfo" contain= er. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has so= me > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 camelCase node names. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > yang-doctors mailing list > > yang-doctors@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > > > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > > > --------------7BC40B7EF97E85F2F2D24126 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Andy,

It probably *does* make sense (it didn't and then we reorged a bit).

Eliot


On 8/23/17 6:59 PM, Andy Bierman wrote= :


On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
Hi,

I would like to direct the YANG doctors attention to one design choice
in this document:

The document defines a normal "config true" data model, but this data
model is not intended to be implemented by a server, but rather it
defines the file format of a "MUD file".

This idea is not new, it is used e.g. in the anima voucher document.
Normally, we would require that they use "rc:yang-data" to define such
a structure.

However, the MUD file is supposed to contain some top-level nodes
defined in the MUD YANG module, and also some /acl:access-lists
nodes.=C2=A0 So even if the MUD document could define a rc:yang-data
structure for the top-level nodes defined in the MUD document, it
cannot get the access lists into this rc:yang-data structure.

So the question to the YANG doctors is if this is ok, or if there is a
better way to define this file format.


Why is it a problem to use a grouping in rc:yang-data?
This clearly needs to be rc:yang-data, not a real module with config=3Dtrue objects.
I think the artifact can contain data that matches the structure of config data.
It is an implementation detail to convert the artifact to config data in a datastore.

=C2=A0

/martin



Andy
=C2=A0

Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote: > Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund
> Review result: Ready with Issues
>
> Hi,
>
> I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document.=C2=A0 Here are
> my comments:
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Section 2 says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The MUD file is limited to the serializat= ion of a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 small number of YANG schema, including th= e models specified in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 following documents:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [RFC6991]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is the intention that *only* these models= are included, or *at
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 least* these models are included?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so= I don't think it needs to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be listed.=C2=A0 I suggest you are a bit = more specific, and list:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-mud [...]
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used = in other places as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 well).=C2=A0 YANG uses the term "data nod= e" or "node".=C2=A0 Or "YANG data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 node".=C2=A0 I suggest you use one of the= se terms, and import the term
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in your Terminology section.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, the YANG module uses the term "elem= ent" to refer to "device":
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf is-supported {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type boolean;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The element is curre= ntly supported
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by the manufacturer.= ";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>
>
> o=C2=A0 In your Terminology section you introduce the = term "Thing".=C2=A0 But
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the text often use "device".=C2=A0 Maybe = use "device" consistently?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 In order to get consistent indentation of the = YANG modules, I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 suggest you run:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (and same for ietf-acldns.yang)
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Ensure that description statements contain pro= per sentences.=C2=A0 Also
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ensure that the descriptions are descript= ive.=C2=A0 As an example of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 latter, this is not a good description: >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Which way are we talking ab= out?";
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In general, I found that the main documen= t had better descriptions
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 than the YANG module.=C2=A0 Consider movi= ng the text from the main
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document to the YANG module (this also re= duces the risk of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 inconsistencies).=C2=A0 If don't want to = move text, I think you need to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spend some effort on almost all descripti= ons in the YANG module.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 In both modules, make sure you have a single revision
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 statement.=C2=A0 Note that in IETF-terms,= a revision statement is added
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 when a new version of the module is publs= ihed as an RFC (so the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 initial RFC would have one revision state= ment).
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines configuration
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a normal
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NETCONF/RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 Rather, it= will be instantiated in a JSON
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 file.=C2=A0 I think this should be stated= in the description of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 module.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessa= ry.=C2=A0 It is only used
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to make the acl augment conditional on th= e feature.=C2=A0 I think that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if this module is supported, the feature = is also supported.=C2=A0 Or do
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 you envision implementations of this modu= le that would not support
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this feature?=C2=A0 If so, maybe you can = explain that use case in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statem= ent:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 units "hours";
>
>
> o=C2=A0 I suggest you rename the grouping "access_list= s" to "access-lists"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for consitency.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 extensions.=C2=A0 It would be usefule to = mention this registry by name.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, shouldn't this registry be defined = in the IANA Considerations
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 section?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction"= =2E=C2=A0 There is no such
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf in the YANG module.=C2=A0 There is o= ne called "direction-initiated"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 though.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But since the "/device" container contain= s two different ACL sets,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentation really
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 necessary?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The model has:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf local-networks {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type empty;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"this string i= s used to indicate networks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 considered lo= cal in a given environment.";
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This leaf is of type "empty", but the des= cription says it is a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 string.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, what is the format of this string?=C2= =A0 (Hmm, I think the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description is wrong, this should indeed = be type empty).
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of "ietf-mud"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that is used as the schema for a MUD file= ?=C2=A0 I.e., something like a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metain= fo" container.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g.= , it has some
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 camelCase node names.
>
>
> _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list
> yang-doctors@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors
>

_______________________________________________
yang-doctors mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors


--------------7BC40B7EF97E85F2F2D24126-- --Th1x6aIHsbaBatnKI8HWVbvn1iXg3soe8-- --gFHhft6TnIEMHuIMMVQJDUCS5CkBVV0ut Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZnec3AAoJEIe2a0bZ0noz5BYH/Ra7Li+FFPg752KqQEXWegLo mlfPq1w0GnQQOMPiqQj6L9kb5vgU9Be7sLsibsfx7cGSWlhv69yoWB9mi3MdyvsK 7z/47FWbr34hkoqCBh4x3PKu+2uSW4Hih+d/dO3uZIIYHJeGAdjjwRDqEDSEFBlO C9+U9z9pY1zjqr6bKKZosSdgcDCW8ScbY4kbRDMsDjd2JEOZJEg9jqglX7ARh5fi ce5teTpHwtTSpNldVdFwVSlpthkFONIHwNQBMotb/77PpixaJBoucFOd/WbAfagz DMNisRQHrr24iorgHrKYMVJGD31Tj2LeoXVWTpO+ngEHZyjh0/iluuTK8YGopDg= =QAo9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --gFHhft6TnIEMHuIMMVQJDUCS5CkBVV0ut-- From nobody Wed Aug 23 13:36:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C1C13218E; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:36:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w2ckjAOpvbDB; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 860C7120720; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 13:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E3E599; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:36:34 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id he4bMZYzdL8y; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:36:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:36:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B41200E2; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:36:34 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tKNL_litf-Tk; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:36:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE35A200E0; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:36:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 79627404A4CB; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:36:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 22:36:33 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , YANG Doctors , "netmod@ietf.org" , Rodney Cummings Message-ID: <20170823203633.4yseukdqncuchxdf@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , YANG Doctors , "netmod@ietf.org" , Rodney Cummings References: <20170820080301.asf2fx6o4abupq4h@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20170714 (1.8.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Identities vs enums X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 20:36:37 -0000 On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 12:46:37PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 1:03 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 07:02:04PM +0000, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > > > All, > > > In the context iana-routing-types.yang, we’ve been having a discussion > > of the merits of identities vs enums. We’ve followed the lead of RFC 7224 > > and used identities which allow augmentation. However, for IANA code > > points, there could be merit in having the type represent the actual > > numeric value. Any thoughts on this? > > > > > > In the next version of YANG, it would be useful for a base identity to > > allow it to have a "base-type" (mutually exclusive of "identity-ref"). For > > all identities a "base-value" would be allowed as long as it conformed to > > the constraints of the actual or inherited (via “identity-ref”) “base-type”. > > > > > > > The question here really is who is charge of controlling assignments > > of a name space. > > > > - If there is a single authority controlling the assignments, an enum > > works fine. > > > > - If the assignments are not controlled by a single authority, an > > identity works fine. > > > > We sometimes have situations that are somewhere in between, i.e., a > > central authority controlling assignments but delegating parts of the > > name space to other authoritities. I agree, we do not have good > > support to model this explicitly in YANG today. > > > > > I think Acee is asking about a new feature that does not exist in YANG, > which is to add > an enum value-stmt to an identity-stmt somehow. Seems like a valid > use-case. Identities can be without a central authority controlling assignments - so there is little hope that values assigned to identities carry a useful meaning unless there is a mechanism to partition and delegate number spaces along the identity hierarchy. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Aug 24 00:13:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8864D132BE7; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 00:13:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 42i0uv4smUjt; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 00:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26EE4132B9F; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 00:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 311C71AE033A; Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:12:58 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 09:11:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170824.091130.889626202711647501.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com Cc: yang-doctors@ietf.org, draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170823.100659.305891042923397070.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 07:13:01 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I would like to direct the YANG doctors attention to one design choice > > in this document: > > > > The document defines a normal "config true" data model, but this data > > model is not intended to be implemented by a server, but rather it > > defines the file format of a "MUD file". > > > > This idea is not new, it is used e.g. in the anima voucher document. > > Normally, we would require that they use "rc:yang-data" to define such > > a structure. > > > > However, the MUD file is supposed to contain some top-level nodes > > defined in the MUD YANG module, and also some /acl:access-lists > > nodes. So even if the MUD document could define a rc:yang-data > > structure for the top-level nodes defined in the MUD document, it > > cannot get the access lists into this rc:yang-data structure. > > > > So the question to the YANG doctors is if this is ok, or if there is a > > better way to define this file format. > > > > > Why is it a problem to use a grouping in rc:yang-data? That's not the issue here - I agree it is perfectly fine to use a grouping in yang-data. The issue is that they would like to define a file format that contains "/acl:access-lists" nodes. The acl module is NOT defined as a grouping or anything. > This clearly needs to be rc:yang-data, not a real module with config=true > objects. > I think the artifact can contain data that matches the structure of config > data. Not sure I follow this. They would like to re-use the definition of access lists in ietf-access-control-list. But they want this data in a file. > It is an implementation detail to convert the artifact to config data in a > datastore. Yes, this part is actually clear in their draft. /martin From nobody Fri Aug 25 03:26:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA982132924; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 03:26:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id keG3erw351nu; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 03:26:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FBD712426E; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 03:26:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=30459; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1503656776; x=1504866376; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=04S8KpZaguaet6vtb/hJF0/034jP9Zk0HiKVCsXhtmA=; b=SnuHSPXTxohqmtQwVzzAKP+zYWsLpEPi6aSJ7To97DQjTJebtlnta43+ LDYShgqCUp4QA8ePGi1mRJaKfW4VavlhuLip8rq4cpoEpdMRwlD69cxeo caOIUb3D4z1U7h1IoWPcUcyr7EOPZEp8y2FEfFaAJZPjHGzNi2piTVRi+ o=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D4AABC+p9Z/4sNJK0UBUMZAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEHAQEBAQGDWmSBFY4UkBiBcJYlghIHGgEKhRsCg3c/GAECAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohRkBAQEDAQEhBEcLEAkCGCAHAwICJx8RBgEMBgIBAYotEIhbhnGdZoFtOieLO?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQ4KBYMqggKDMCuCfIROEYMpgkIfAQSHOIJ?= =?us-ascii?q?VhxKPP4Q0giGEV4NVhUWCEoVkg1mHF4lyjEUfOEFMMiEIHBVJhF+CPj42h0yCQ?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,425,1498521600"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="476748933" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 25 Aug 2017 10:26:14 +0000 Received: from [10.82.222.249] (rtp-vpn3-1778.cisco.com [10.82.222.249]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7PAQC4L025473; Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:26:13 GMT To: Andy Bierman , Martin Bjorklund Cc: YANG Doctors , draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170823.100659.305891042923397070.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: <76b23cb9-b174-c561-dee6-ad625e228fe8@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 12:26:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rNc8PE6k3sGMIIbJxVDvQ2DPnUwlUdrXH" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 10:26:20 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --rNc8PE6k3sGMIIbJxVDvQ2DPnUwlUdrXH Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8gI4I5mkCEPKFEGKe4VMHSJlxe8sDUbSv"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Andy Bierman , Martin Bjorklund Cc: YANG Doctors , draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org Message-ID: <76b23cb9-b174-c561-dee6-ad625e228fe8@cisco.com> Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170823.100659.305891042923397070.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: --8gI4I5mkCEPKFEGKe4VMHSJlxe8sDUbSv Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------7FF18E69F67EC7DE39C29943" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7FF18E69F67EC7DE39C29943 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Andy and other doctors, Following up on your note, I have been discussing with a few people how exactly to encode stuff.=C2=A0 Below please find something of a strawman.= =C2=A0 As currently structured, in a MUD file there would be two root level objects: a mud-artifact and a list of access-lists.=C2=A0 I have a few qu= estions: 1. Can both of these two objects, one of them being defined within rc:yang-data and another not, be represented in the same JSON file as two root level objects? 2. In anticipation that someone might someday want to have this information expressed by a NETCONF server, I ponder still making the "mud" module below a presence container.=C2=A0 Is that legal/advisabl= e within the context of rc:yang-data? Thanks much, Eliot pyang --strict --lint --ietf --tree-print-yang-data -f tree ietf-mud.yang= module: ietf-mud augment /acl:access-lists/acl:acl/acl:access-list-entries/acl:ace/acl:m= atches: +--rw mud-acl +--rw manufacturer? inet:host +--rw same-manufacturer? empty +--rw model? string +--rw local-networks? empty +--rw controller? inet:uri +--rw my-controller? empty augment /acl:access-lists/acl:acl/acl:access-list-entries/acl:ace/acl:m= atches/acl:tcp-acl: +--rw direction-initiated? direction yang-data: mud-artifact +---- mud +---- mud-url inet:uri +---- last-update yang:date-and-time +---- cache-validity? uint8 +---- masa-server? inet:uri +---- is-supported? boolean +---- systeminfo? inet:uri +---- extensions* string +---- from-device-policy | +---- access-lists | +---- access-list* [acl-name acl-type] | +---- acl-name -> /acl:access-lists/acl/acl-name | +---- acl-type identityref +---- to-device-policy +---- access-lists +---- access-list* [acl-name acl-type] +---- acl-name -> /acl:access-lists/acl/acl-name +---- acl-type identityref On 8/23/17 6:59 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Martin Bjorklund > wrote: > > Hi, > > I would like to direct the YANG doctors attention to one design cho= ice > in this document: > > The document defines a normal "config true" data model, but this da= ta > model is not intended to be implemented by a server, but rather it > defines the file format of a "MUD file". > > This idea is not new, it is used e.g. in the anima voucher document= =2E > Normally, we would require that they use "rc:yang-data" to define s= uch > a structure. > > However, the MUD file is supposed to contain some top-level nodes > defined in the MUD YANG module, and also some /acl:access-lists > nodes.=C2=A0 So even if the MUD document could define a rc:yang-dat= a > structure for the top-level nodes defined in the MUD document, it > cannot get the access lists into this rc:yang-data structure. > > So the question to the YANG doctors is if this is ok, or if there i= s a > better way to define this file format. > > > Why is it a problem to use a grouping in rc:yang-data? > This clearly needs to be rc:yang-data, not a real module with > config=3Dtrue objects. > I think the artifact can contain data that matches the structure of > config data. > It is an implementation detail to convert the artifact to config data > in a datastore. > > =C2=A0 > > > /martin > > > > Andy > =C2=A0 > > > Martin Bjorklund > wrote: > > Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund > > Review result: Ready with Issues > > > > Hi, > > > > I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document.=C2=A0 = Here are > > my comments: > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Section 2 says: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 small number of YANG schema, including the models sp= ecified > in the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 following documents: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [RFC6991] > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is the intention that *only* these models are includ= ed, or *at > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 least* these models are included? > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don't th= ink it > needs to > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be listed.=C2=A0 I suggest you are a bit more specif= ic, and list: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-ne= tmod-acl-model] > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-mud [...] > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in other pl= aces as > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 well).=C2=A0 YANG uses the term "data node" or "node= ".=C2=A0 Or "YANG data > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 node".=C2=A0 I suggest you use one of these terms, a= nd import the term > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in your Terminology section. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" to ref= er to > "device": > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf is-supported { > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type boolean; > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The element is currently suppor= ted > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by the manufacturer."; > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0} > > > > > > o=C2=A0 In your Terminology section you introduce the term "Thing= ".=C2=A0 But > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the text often use "device".=C2=A0 Maybe use "device= " consistently? > > > > > > o=C2=A0 In order to get consistent indentation of the YANG module= s, I > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 suggest you run: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (and same for ietf-acldns.yang) > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Ensure that description statements contain proper sentenc= es.=C2=A0 > Also > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ensure that the descriptions are descriptive.=C2=A0 = As an example > of the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 latter, this is not a good description: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Which way are we talking about?"; > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In general, I found that the main document had bette= r > descriptions > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 than the YANG module.=C2=A0 Consider moving the text= from the main > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document to the YANG module (this also reduces the r= isk of > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 inconsistencies).=C2=A0 If don't want to move text, = I think you > need to > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the = YANG module. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 In both modules, make sure you have a single revision > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 statement.=C2=A0 Note that in IETF-terms, a revision= statement is > added > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 when a new version of the module is publsihed as an = RFC (so the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 initial RFC would have one revision statement). > > > > > > o=C2=A0 The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines > configuration > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented= by a normal > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NETCONF/RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 Rather, it will be in= stantiated in > a JSON > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 file.=C2=A0 I think this should be stated in the des= cription of the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 module. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessary.=C2=A0 I= t is only > used > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to make the acl augment conditional on the feature.=C2= =A0 I think that > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if this module is supported, the feature is also sup= ported.=C2=A0 > Or do > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 you envision implementations of this module that wou= ld not > support > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this feature?=C2=A0 If so, maybe you can explain tha= t use case in the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statement: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 units "hours"; > > > > > > o=C2=A0 I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists" to > "access-lists" > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for consitency. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory? > > > > > > o=C2=A0 The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 extensions.=C2=A0 It would be usefule to mention thi= s registry by > name. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA= > Considerations > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 section? > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction".=C2=A0 The= re is no such > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf in the YANG module.=C2=A0 There is one called > "direction-initiated" > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 though. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But since the "/device" container contains two diffe= rent ACL > sets, > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentatio= n really > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 necessary? > > > > > > o=C2=A0 The model has: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf local-networks { > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type empty; > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"this string is used to i= ndicate networks > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 considered local in a gi= ven environment."; > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This leaf is of type "empty", but the description sa= ys it is a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 string. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, what is the format of this string?=C2=A0 (Hmm,= I think the > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description is wrong, this should indeed be type emp= ty). > > > > > > o=C2=A0 Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of > "ietf-mud" > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that is used as the schema for a MUD file?=C2=A0 I.e= =2E, something > like a > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainfo" contain= er. > > > > > > o=C2=A0 The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has so= me > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 camelCase node names. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > yang-doctors mailing list > > yang-doctors@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > > > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors > > > --------------7FF18E69F67EC7DE39C29943 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Andy and other doctors,

Following up on your note, I have been discussing with a few people how exactly to encode stuff.=C2=A0 Below please find somethi= ng of a strawman.=C2=A0 As currently structured, in a MUD file there w= ould be two root level objects: a mud-artifact and a list of access-lists.=C2=A0 I have a few questions:

  1. Can both of these two objects, one of them being defined within rc:yang-data and another not, be represented in the same JSON file as two root level objects?
  2. In anticipation that someone might someday want to have this information expressed by a NETCONF server, I ponder still making the "mud" module below a presence container.=C2=A0 Is that legal/advisable within the context of rc:yang-data?
Thanks much,

Eliot
pyang --strict --lint --ietf --tree-print-yang-data -f tree ietf=
-mud.yang
module: ietf-mud
  augment /acl:access-lists/acl:acl/acl:access-list-entries/acl:ace/acl:m=
atches:
    +--rw mud-acl
       +--rw manufacturer?        inet:host
       +--rw same-manufacturer?   empty
       +--rw model?               string
       +--rw local-networks?      empty
       +--rw controller?          inet:uri
       +--rw my-controller?       empty
  augment /acl:access-lists/acl:acl/acl:access-list-entries/acl:ace/acl:m=
atches/acl:tcp-acl:
    +--rw direction-initiated?   direction
  yang-data:
  mud-artifact
      +---- mud
         +---- mud-url               inet:uri
         +---- last-update           yang:date-and-time
         +---- cache-validity?       uint8
         +---- masa-server?          inet:uri
         +---- is-supported?         boolean
         +---- systeminfo?           inet:uri
         +---- extensions*           string
         +---- from-device-policy
         |  +---- access-lists
         |     +---- access-list* [acl-name acl-type]
         |        +---- acl-name    -> /acl:access-lists/acl/acl-name
         |        +---- acl-type    identityref
         +---- to-device-policy
            +---- access-lists
               +---- access-list* [acl-name acl-type]
                  +---- acl-name    -> /acl:access-lists/acl/acl-name
                  +---- acl-type    identityref

On 8/23/17 6:59 PM, Andy Bierman wrote= :


On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
Hi,

I would like to direct the YANG doctors attention to one design choice
in this document:

The document defines a normal "config true" data model, but this data
model is not intended to be implemented by a server, but rather it
defines the file format of a "MUD file".

This idea is not new, it is used e.g. in the anima voucher document.
Normally, we would require that they use "rc:yang-data" to define such
a structure.

However, the MUD file is supposed to contain some top-level nodes
defined in the MUD YANG module, and also some /acl:access-lists
nodes.=C2=A0 So even if the MUD document could define a rc:yang-data
structure for the top-level nodes defined in the MUD document, it
cannot get the access lists into this rc:yang-data structure.

So the question to the YANG doctors is if this is ok, or if there is a
better way to define this file format.


Why is it a problem to use a grouping in rc:yang-data?
This clearly needs to be rc:yang-data, not a real module with config=3Dtrue objects.
I think the artifact can contain data that matches the structure of config data.
It is an implementation detail to convert the artifact to config data in a datastore.

=C2=A0

/martin



Andy
=C2=A0

Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote: > Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund
> Review result: Ready with Issues
>
> Hi,
>
> I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document.=C2=A0 Here are
> my comments:
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Section 2 says:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The MUD file is limited to the serializat= ion of a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 small number of YANG schema, including th= e models specified in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 following documents:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 [RFC6991]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Is the intention that *only* these models= are included, or *at
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 least* these models are included?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so= I don't think it needs to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be listed.=C2=A0 I suggest you are a bit = more specific, and list:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 ietf-mud [...]
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used = in other places as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 well).=C2=A0 YANG uses the term "data nod= e" or "node".=C2=A0 Or "YANG data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 node".=C2=A0 I suggest you use one of the= se terms, and import the term
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in your Terminology section.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, the YANG module uses the term "elem= ent" to refer to "device":
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf is-supported {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type boolean;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The element is curre= ntly supported
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by the manufacturer.= ";
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>
>
> o=C2=A0 In your Terminology section you introduce the = term "Thing".=C2=A0 But
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the text often use "device".=C2=A0 Maybe = use "device" consistently?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 In order to get consistent indentation of the = YANG modules, I
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 suggest you run:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (and same for ietf-acldns.yang)
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Ensure that description statements contain pro= per sentences.=C2=A0 Also
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ensure that the descriptions are descript= ive.=C2=A0 As an example of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 latter, this is not a good description: >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Which way are we talking ab= out?";
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In general, I found that the main documen= t had better descriptions
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 than the YANG module.=C2=A0 Consider movi= ng the text from the main
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document to the YANG module (this also re= duces the risk of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 inconsistencies).=C2=A0 If don't want to = move text, I think you need to
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 spend some effort on almost all descripti= ons in the YANG module.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 In both modules, make sure you have a single revision
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 statement.=C2=A0 Note that in IETF-terms,= a revision statement is added
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 when a new version of the module is publs= ihed as an RFC (so the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 initial RFC would have one revision state= ment).
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines configuration
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a normal
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 NETCONF/RESTCONF server.=C2=A0 Rather, it= will be instantiated in a JSON
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 file.=C2=A0 I think this should be stated= in the description of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 module.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessa= ry.=C2=A0 It is only used
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to make the acl augment conditional on th= e feature.=C2=A0 I think that
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 if this module is supported, the feature = is also supported.=C2=A0 Or do
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 you envision implementations of this modu= le that would not support
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 this feature?=C2=A0 If so, maybe you can = explain that use case in the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 document.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statem= ent:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 units "hours";
>
>
> o=C2=A0 I suggest you rename the grouping "access_list= s" to "access-lists"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for consitency.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 extensions.=C2=A0 It would be usefule to = mention this registry by name.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, shouldn't this registry be defined = in the IANA Considerations
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 section?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction"= =2E=C2=A0 There is no such
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf in the YANG module.=C2=A0 There is o= ne called "direction-initiated"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 though.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 But since the "/device" container contain= s two different ACL sets,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentation really
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 necessary?
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The model has:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf local-networks {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type empty;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"this string i= s used to indicate networks
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 considered lo= cal in a given environment.";
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This leaf is of type "empty", but the des= cription says it is a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 string.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Also, what is the format of this string?=C2= =A0 (Hmm, I think the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description is wrong, this should indeed = be type empty).
>
>
> o=C2=A0 Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of "ietf-mud"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that is used as the schema for a MUD file= ?=C2=A0 I.e., something like a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metain= fo" container.
>
>
> o=C2=A0 The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g.= , it has some
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 camelCase node names.
>
>
> _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list
> yang-doctors@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors
>

_______________________________________________
yang-doctors mailing list
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Bjorklund" CC: "draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org" , YANG Doctors Thread-Topic: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 Thread-Index: AQHTG0vqpYVdM6T1UkmxTgNqWPFBt6KRlv6AgACU1wCAArbBgP//9+cA Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2017 13:57:21 +0000 Message-ID: <9DC534F4-5510-49F3-AA73-752CB1222343@juniper.net> References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170823.100659.305891042923397070.mbj@tail-f.com> <76b23cb9-b174-c561-dee6-ad625e228fe8@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <76b23cb9-b174-c561-dee6-ad625e228fe8@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.14] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN3PR0501MB1188; 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d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="654230079" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 28 Aug 2017 08:31:55 +0000 Received: from [10.61.198.200] ([10.61.198.200]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7S8VsC8018749; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 08:31:54 GMT To: Martin Bjorklund , yang-doctors@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:31:54 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Ms80gB9GTWU6M7pfNQSOrbCm6J39Nenac" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 08:32:03 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Ms80gB9GTWU6M7pfNQSOrbCm6J39Nenac Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Wp4IGo5rKcnlqcO8gmEmVG1WhuX67JoGm"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Martin Bjorklund , yang-doctors@ietf.org Cc: draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> --Wp4IGo5rKcnlqcO8gmEmVG1WhuX67JoGm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3EEC0AC16D5F76F97C91F768" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3EEC0AC16D5F76F97C91F768 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Martin, Thanks for performing the review. Please see responses below. =C2=A0On 8/22/17 3:38 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund > Review result: Ready with Issues > > Hi, > > I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document. Here are > my comments: > > > o Section 2 says: > > The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a > small number of YANG schema, including the models specified in the > following documents: > > o [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > o [RFC6991] > > Is the intention that *only* these models are included, or *at > least* these models are included? ONLY. > RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don't think it needs to > be listed. =20 Will remove. > I suggest you are a bit more specific, and list: > > o ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > o ietf-mud [...] Will do. > o Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in other places as > well). YANG uses the term "data node" or "node". Or "YANG data > node". I suggest you use one of these terms, and import the term > in your Terminology section. Will replace. > Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" to refer to "device": > > leaf is-supported { > type boolean; > description > "The element is currently supported > by the manufacturer."; > } > Will correct. > o In your Terminology section you introduce the term "Thing". But > the text often use "device". Maybe use "device" consistently? > Will correct. > o In order to get consistent indentation of the YANG modules, I > suggest you run: > > pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang > > (and same for ietf-acldns.yang) > We are making some changes, and are making heavy use of pyang --ietf --strict... > o Ensure that description statements contain proper sentences. Also > ensure that the descriptions are descriptive. As an example of the > latter, this is not a good description: > > description > "Which way are we talking about?"; > > In general, I found that the main document had better descriptions > than the YANG module. Consider moving the text from the main > document to the YANG module (this also reduces the risk of > inconsistencies). If don't want to move text, I think you need to > spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the YANG module. As we move toward completion I may ask for your help.=C2=A0 I am nervous = of simply moving chunks of text into the descriptions because I think we have a fairly readable document outside of the model.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I am pe= rfectly happy to copy text in, however. > o In both modules, make sure you have a single revision > statement. Note that in IETF-terms, a revision statement is added > when a new version of the module is publsihed as an RFC (so the > initial RFC would have one revision statement). Ok. > o The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines configuration > data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a normal > NETCONF/RESTCONF server. Rather, it will be instantiated in a JSON > file. I think this should be stated in the description of the > module. > Ok. > o I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessary. It is only used > to make the acl augment conditional on the feature. I think that > if this module is supported, the feature is also supported. Or do > you envision implementations of this module that would not support > this feature? If so, maybe you can explain that use case in the > document. Fair point.=C2=A0 This was included in keeping with the acl model's direction, but given that it is already an augment, you're right. > o leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statement: > > units "hours"; > Ok. > o I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists" to "access-lists" > for consitency. Ok. > o Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory? > Yes.=C2=A0 This has been the subject of considerable discussion. I propo= se to modify the model to include an rc:yang-data statement, as well as t= o make the mud container a presence container. I believe either would al= low us to address this matter. In addition, we'll add a mud-url element = to make it possible for the entry to be self-identifying. This would all= ow for a very simply "uses", should someone want to borrow the model to b= uild out a configuration data store. Indeed, based on these changes, we're attempting to consolidate the # of = containers (or at least avoid an explosion of them). Finally, this leaves open precisely which nodes should be mandatory. To = me, last-update should be mandatory, as well as the mud-url. Joe would l= ike "is-supported" covered, and I am not adverse. I don't think "cache-v= alidity" needs to be mandatory, but rather should have a default value of= 48 hours. =C2=A0 > o The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for > extensions. It would be usefule to mention this registry by name. > > Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA Considerations > section? Yes. > o Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction". There is no such > leaf in the YANG module. There is one called "direction-initiated" > though. This is an artifact of an earlier version that needs to be removed. > But since the "/device" container contains two different ACL sets, > one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentation really > necessary? Precisely so.=C2=A0 I've updated the working copy. > o The model has: > > leaf local-networks { > type empty; > description > "this string is used to indicate networks > considered local in a given environment."; > > This leaf is of type "empty", but the description says it is a > string. > Also, what is the format of this string? (Hmm, I think the > description is wrong, this should indeed be type empty). > That shouldn't say string.=C2=A0 It's empty. > o Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of "ietf-mud" > that is used as the schema for a MUD file? I.e., something like a > leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainfo" container. For what purpose? > o The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has some > camelCase node names. That's corrected. Thanks VERY much again. There are still finishing touches to do to the model, such that it is wel= l documented and easily serialized, given the above changes. Eliot --------------3EEC0AC16D5F76F97C91F768 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Hi Martin,

Thanks for performing the review.  Please see responses below.

=C2=A0On 8/22/17 3:38 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote:

Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund
Review result: Ready with Issues

Hi,

I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document.  Here are
my comments:


o  Section 2 says:

   The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a
   small number of YANG schema, including the models specified in the
   following documents:

   o  [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model]

   o  [RFC6991]

   Is the intention that *only* these models a=
re included, or *at
   least* these models are included?

ONLY.

   RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don=
't think it needs to
   be listed. =20

Will remove.


I suggest you are a bit more specific, and list:

     o  ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model]

     o  ietf-mud [...]

Will do.

o  Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in other places as
   well).  YANG uses the term "data node" or "node".  Or "YANG data
   node".  I suggest you use one of these terms, and import the term
   in your Terminology section.

Will replace.

   Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" t=
o refer to "device":

    leaf is-supported {
      type boolean;
      description
        "The element is currently supported
         by the manufacturer.";
    }


Will correct.

o  In your Terminology section you introduce the t=
erm "Thing".  But
   the text often use "device".  Maybe use "device" consistently?


Will correct.


o  In order to get consistent indentation of the Y=
ANG modules, I
   suggest you run:

     pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang

   (and same for ietf-acldns.yang)


We are making some changes, and are making heavy use=
 of pyang --ietf
--strict...


o  Ensure that description statements contain prop=
er sentences.  Also
   ensure that the descriptions are descriptive.  As an example of the
   latter, this is not a good description:

    description
      "Which way are we talking about?";

   In general, I found that the main document had better descriptions
   than the YANG module.  Consider moving the text from the main
   document to the YANG module (this also reduces the risk of
   inconsistencies).  If don't want to move text, I think you need to
   spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the YANG module.

As we move toward completion I may ask for your help=
=2E=C2=A0 I am nervous of
simply moving chunks of text into the descriptions because I think we
have a fairly readable document outside of the model.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I am pe=
rfectly
happy to copy text in, however.


o  In both modules, make sure you have a single re=
vision
   statement.  Note that in IETF-terms, a revision statement is added
   when a new version of the module is publsihed as an RFC (so the
   initial RFC would have one revision statement).

Ok.

o  The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it d=
efines configuration
   data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a normal
   NETCONF/RESTCONF server.  Rather, it will be instantiated in a JSON
   file.  I think this should be stated in the description of the
   module.


Ok.


o  I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessar=
y.  It is only used
   to make the acl augment conditional on the feature.  I think that
   if this module is supported, the feature is also supported.  Or do
   you envision implementations of this module that would not support
   this feature?  If so, maybe you can explain that use case in the
   document.

Fair point.=C2=A0 This was included in keeping with =
the acl model's
direction, but given that it is already an augment, you're right.

o  leaf cache-validity could use a "units" stateme=
nt:

     units "hours";


Ok.


o  I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists=
" to "access-lists"
   for consitency.

Ok.

o  Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be manda=
tory?


Yes.=C2=A0 This has been the subject of considerable=
 discussion.  I propose to modify the model to include an rc:yang-data st=
atement, as well as to make the mud container a presence container.  I be=
lieve either would allow us to address this matter.  In addition, we'll a=
dd a mud-url element to make it possible for the entry to be self-identif=
ying.  This would allow for a very simply "uses", should someone want to =
borrow the model to build out a configuration data store.

Indeed, based on these changes, we're attempting to consolidate the # of =
containers (or at least avoid an explosion of them).

Finally, this leaves open precisely which nodes should be mandatory.  To =
me, last-update should be mandatory, as well as the mud-url.  Joe would l=
ike "is-supported" covered, and I am not adverse.  I don't think "cache-v=
alidity" needs to be mandatory, but rather should have a default value of=
 48 hours.
=C2=A0

o  The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA reg=
istry for
   extensions.  It would be usefule to mention this registry by name.

   Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA Considerations
   section?

Yes.

o  Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction".  There is no such
   leaf in the YANG module.  There is one called "direction-initiated"
   though.

This is an artifact of an earlier version that needs=
 to be removed.

   But since the "/device" container contains two =
different ACL sets,
   one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentation really
   necessary?

Precisely so.=C2=A0 I've updated the working copy.

o  The model has:

      leaf local-networks {
        type empty;
        description
          "this string is used to indicate networks
           considered local in a given environment.";

   This leaf is of type "empty", but the description says it is a
   string.

   Also, what is the format of this string?  (Hmm,=
 I think the
   description is wrong, this should indeed be type empty).


That shouldn't say string.=C2=A0 It's empty.

o  Would it be useful with an indication of the re=
vision of "ietf-mud"
   that is used as the schema for a MUD file?  I.e., something like a
   leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainfo" container.

For what purpose?

o  The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has some
   camelCase node names.

That's corrected.


Thanks VERY much again.

There are still finishing touches to do to the model, such that it is wel=
l documented and easily serialized, given the above changes.

Eliot
--------------3EEC0AC16D5F76F97C91F768-- --Wp4IGo5rKcnlqcO8gmEmVG1WhuX67JoGm-- --Ms80gB9GTWU6M7pfNQSOrbCm6J39Nenac Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZo9T6AAoJEIe2a0bZ0noz3HEH/AiH43atQSpYPbhpBLCpWqYc OXJOA4WWUZ5o560qZ98KGUAyb3iZDpaL8DTZ8wlpjIKQEwKESncFWu0HUDmFcF7U qgT9UiX/T+jiVrceoGlaIx46Sd2Uj90TnGylA31vzvskmk6XQeT/SO4QbiElDnt6 p54QJ8SlE6uBFtNaaWCqK+sb/8jaiSdKyTzh0IaXlDCEbLbo/5YGmXquMTgWUDni vjtdsLArDtgzLvmN2LMoPnObKof2oARRxU4Uj9KmVdeJSqaslmEnA/FtgBDGtR3L PdOFxqY3lePz7nZL0fkWWONnHhUGtUoEOo0xDjf2ePgIoEHHeRCbW+IbB5YVEio= =/K+6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Ms80gB9GTWU6M7pfNQSOrbCm6J39Nenac-- From nobody Mon Aug 28 01:54:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDEC7132358; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 01:54:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8SdmP0KaIZK5; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 01:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71193132A65; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 01:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.57]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F0261AE02C9; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:54:09 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 10:52:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20170828.105242.1597048530111501551.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lear@cisco.com Cc: yang-doctors@ietf.org, draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08, Re: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 08:54:15 -0000 Eliot Lear wrote: > Hi Martin, > = > Thanks for performing the review. Please see responses below. > = > =A0On 8/22/17 3:38 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > = > > Reviewer: Martin Bjorklund > > Review result: Ready with Issues > > > > Hi, > > > > I am the assigned YANG doctors reviewer for this document. Here ar= e > > my comments: > > > > > > o Section 2 says: > > > > The MUD file is limited to the serialization of a > > small number of YANG schema, including the models specified in t= he > > following documents: > > > > o [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > > > o [RFC6991] > > > > Is the intention that *only* these models are included, or *at > > least* these models are included? > = > ONLY. Ok. The text says "a small number ... including ...". I suggest this is clarified. > > RFC6991 doesn't define any data nodes, so I don't think it needs= to > > be listed. = > = > Will remove. > = > > I suggest you are a bit more specific, and list: > > > > o ietf-access-control-list [I-D.ietf-netmod-acl-model] > > > > o ietf-mud [...] > = > Will do. > = > > o Section 3 uses the term "element" (it is used in other places as= > > well). YANG uses the term "data node" or "node". Or "YANG data= > > node". I suggest you use one of these terms, and import the ter= m > > in your Terminology section. > = > Will replace. > = > > Also, the YANG module uses the term "element" to refer to "devic= e": > > > > leaf is-supported { > > type boolean; > > description > > "The element is currently supported > > by the manufacturer."; > > } > > > Will correct. > = > > o In your Terminology section you introduce the term "Thing". But= > > the text often use "device". Maybe use "device" consistently? > > > Will correct. > = > > o In order to get consistent indentation of the YANG modules, I > > suggest you run: > > > > pyang -f yang ietf-mud.yang > > > > (and same for ietf-acldns.yang) > > > We are making some changes, and are making heavy use of pyang --ietf > --strict... Ok, but --ietf does not check indentation etc. > > o Ensure that description statements contain proper sentences. Al= so > > ensure that the descriptions are descriptive. As an example of = the > > latter, this is not a good description: > > > > description > > "Which way are we talking about?"; > > > > In general, I found that the main document had better descriptio= ns > > than the YANG module. Consider moving the text from the main > > document to the YANG module (this also reduces the risk of > > inconsistencies). If don't want to move text, I think you need = to > > spend some effort on almost all descriptions in the YANG module.= > = > As we move toward completion I may ask for your help.=A0 I am nervous= of > simply moving chunks of text into the descriptions because I think we= > have a fairly readable document outside of the model.=A0=A0 I am perf= ectly > happy to copy text in, however. Ok. > > o In both modules, make sure you have a single revision > > statement. Note that in IETF-terms, a revision statement is add= ed > > when a new version of the module is publsihed as an RFC (so the > > initial RFC would have one revision statement). > = > Ok. > = > > o The "ietf-mud" module is a bit unorthodox; it defines configurat= ion > > data nodes, but it is not supposed to be implemented by a normal= > > NETCONF/RESTCONF server. Rather, it will be instantiated in a J= SON > > file. I think this should be stated in the description of the > > module. > > > Ok. > = > > o I don't think the feature "mud-acl" is necessary. It is only us= ed > > to make the acl augment conditional on the feature. I think tha= t > > if this module is supported, the feature is also supported. Or = do > > you envision implementations of this module that would not suppo= rt > > this feature? If so, maybe you can explain that use case in the= > > document. > = > Fair point.=A0 This was included in keeping with the acl model's > direction, but given that it is already an augment, you're right. > = > > o leaf cache-validity could use a "units" statement: > > > > units "hours"; > > > Ok. > = > > o I suggest you rename the grouping "access_lists" to "access-list= s" > > for consitency. > = > Ok. > = > > o Should any of the leafs in "/metainfo" be mandatory? > > > Yes.=A0 This has been the subject of considerable discussion. I > propose to modify the model to include an rc:yang-data > statement, Ok, but note that this makes your usage of access-lists problematic - if you define "rc:yang-data mud", you cannot have a file with "access-lists" within the "mud" container. I don't know how to solve this... > as well as to make the mud container a presence container. I believe= either would allow us to address this matter. In addition, we'll add = a mud-url element to make it possible for the entry to be self-identify= ing. This would allow for a very simply "uses", should someone want to= borrow the model to build out a configuration data store. > = > Indeed, based on these changes, we're attempting to consolidate the #= of containers (or at least avoid an explosion of them). > = > Finally, this leaves open precisely which nodes should be mandatory. = To me, last-update should be mandatory, as well as the mud-url. Joe w= ould like "is-supported" covered, and I am not adverse. I don't think = "cache-validity" needs to be mandatory, but rather should have a defaul= t value of 48 hours. > =A0 > = > > o The "extensions" leaf-list mentions an IANA registry for > > extensions. It would be usefule to mention this registry by nam= e. > > > > Also, shouldn't this registry be defined in the IANA Considerati= ons > > section? > = > Yes. > = > > o Section 3.7 mentions a leaf "packet-direction". There is no suc= h > > leaf in the YANG module. There is one called "direction-initiat= ed" > > though. > = > This is an artifact of an earlier version that needs to be removed. > = > > But since the "/device" container contains two different ACL set= s, > > one for "to" and one for "from", is this augmentation really > > necessary? > = > Precisely so.=A0 I've updated the working copy. > = > > o The model has: > > > > leaf local-networks { > > type empty; > > description > > "this string is used to indicate networks > > considered local in a given environment."; > > > > This leaf is of type "empty", but the description says it is a > > string. > > Also, what is the format of this string? (Hmm, I think the > > description is wrong, this should indeed be type empty). > > > That shouldn't say string.=A0 It's empty. > = > > o Would it be useful with an indication of the revision of "ietf-m= ud" > > that is used as the schema for a MUD file? I.e., something like= a > > leaf "mud-module-revision" in the "metainfo" container. > = > For what purpose? So that the MUD controller knows how to parse the mud file? OTOH, if it turns out to be necessary, you can add it as a mandatory leaf in a future model. > > o The example in section 8 has some errors, e.g., it has some > > camelCase node names. > = > That's corrected. > = > = > Thanks VERY much again. > = > There are still finishing touches to do to the model, such that it is= well documented and easily serialized, given the above changes. > = > Eliot /martin From nobody Mon Aug 28 02:54:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0D87132932; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 02:53:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8aRBJ9uAKFEJ; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 02:53:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA952132811; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 02:53:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3007; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1503914038; x=1505123638; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=1NIFh+QlrJeGecORVSNsA27F1uomxsb9zIaPOxsOUnI=; b=JyU5JczZxHH73T9p2on/jRk+vGmlTLk07PQSAyo/4EIVu3ukDLd3tcsT 0DFdC83EUpYxaKvAEdMD28W3Qz6I+v/V2Kndol4iIsHjPRfsV/5YThwQZ f+6EZa++evgKwSgXjzY5AecCgycy27RnBsQJJMFfoaKsNNbecShPvUs4D I=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CSAwDN56NZ/xbLJq1cGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBiUqLEZBwIpg4B4VAAoQ2FQECAQEBAQEBAWsohRkBBAEjVgULCw4tBwI?= =?us-ascii?q?CVwYNCAEBiiUIsXCCJ4taAQEBAQEBAQMBAQEBAQEBEg+DKoUzKwuCcogIgkIfB?= =?us-ascii?q?ZgqiDqENIIhjXGLUYcXlj01IoENMiEIHBWGFoFQPoseAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,441,1498521600"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="655254859" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 28 Aug 2017 09:53:53 +0000 Received: from [10.61.198.200] ([10.61.198.200]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7S9rrqC004014; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:53:53 GMT To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: yang-doctors@ietf.org, draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170828.105242.1597048530111501551.mbj@tail-f.com> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 11:53:53 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170828.105242.1597048530111501551.mbj@tail-f.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="iTUdKj5bInqGgappmd7oUDr40Da7RgBNm" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08, Re: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:54:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --iTUdKj5bInqGgappmd7oUDr40Da7RgBNm Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="4GiV0TGcHOToQNdP3wPBbrcg8WQOJUd0u"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Martin Bjorklund Cc: yang-doctors@ietf.org, draft-ietf-opsawg-mud.all@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org Message-ID: Subject: Re: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08,Re: Yangdoctors early review of draft-ietf-opsawg-mud-08 References: <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <150340909415.6001.14045177084948571272@ietfa.amsl.com> <20170828.105242.1597048530111501551.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20170828.105242.1597048530111501551.mbj@tail-f.com> --4GiV0TGcHOToQNdP3wPBbrcg8WQOJUd0u Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hi Martin, Trimming: On 8/28/17 10:52 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> ONLY. > Ok. The text says "a small number ... including ...". I suggest this > is clarified. So clarified. > Ok, but --ietf does not check indentation etc. Ok. >> Yes.=C2=A0 This has been the subject of considerable discussion. I >> propose to modify the model to include an rc:yang-data >> statement, > Ok, but note that this makes your usage of access-lists problematic - > if you define "rc:yang-data mud", you cannot have a file with > "access-lists" within the "mud" container. I don't know how to solve > this... That would be quite bad.=C2=A0 Then in the alternative, if we go without rc:yang-data, could we then simply leave the mud container as a presence container?=C2=A0 Given the presence of the MUD-URL this has roughly the concept intended with presence as I understand it. > >> For what purpose? > So that the MUD controller knows how to parse the mud file? OTOH, if > it turns out to be necessary, you can add it as a mandatory leaf in a > future model. ok.=C2=A0 Let's have a think about that one.=C2=A0 If the file is aiming = towards self-describing, then this is a good add. Eliot --4GiV0TGcHOToQNdP3wPBbrcg8WQOJUd0u-- --iTUdKj5bInqGgappmd7oUDr40Da7RgBNm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZo+gxAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozpM0H/j9WyG/SeVckcpQxJqlwUPk6 76Xxnn0OQIrV3z9DR9gYtAbSzpmJLiq/EyIlMG83p+BwgVdID3JlBAOO2VqbQlQA fQjMwjkZFC2nlwa0FlQ7Bf/3vN15w7cVvU7PShEHQVGT28zgjR5O2DvNuDwzJVAf VkRPIMhI+3zjCKkLyaeh2lL177EVJwNBA3ay7zSWPefJzxnXB5XsgbCGjISypdXo x5LziIocs3pgRy7vH1fGHF2xna34vRQhIZ1psZZ6gy6BYFtM7TBE/Uxslyt6/56m GGtHsof0EnVy8Yc++FM0PcJyE1AkIt7gqqD7/ovePm7rSgiD1Nx8JV8/yUqDxMA= =jQzp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --iTUdKj5bInqGgappmd7oUDr40Da7RgBNm-- From nobody Mon Aug 28 05:53:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B6CD132C38; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 05:53:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mbic6LaVJKto; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 05:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58BA11329F9; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 05:53:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=402; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1503924801; x=1505134401; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=ANIz9lp5LUHA2SJo81okn77SYmNU+xJx3kHoiMvfPjg=; b=U2abvCk+vFBT61bPnkEBYeJTLfFr6Re2ZUgt9rkTquN8ul2k2phAsx0X LiU6YK9qW2iQ5qzs0Zy2yssdJr6nmPTsDq/CjQkwlocD08OHrwZgh46GN r5mV22Uj3N/pZaEBggfB9sOEMO0VSxkxBjlMB4PVCtzmcFgrYviipC4Zj A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CWAwC/EKRZ/xbLJq1dGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBhD6BFYN3ijlYkHOWVoIELIURhEgUAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFQhV2AiYCXwE?= =?us-ascii?q?MCAEBii0QsRSCJ4tfAQEBAQYCJoENgh2DUIIOC4QugwErgyCCYQWgZIdWjHACg?= =?us-ascii?q?XgBF1qFDINZhU6BSY1LiHI2IYENMiEIHBWFbYF5PjYBiCgrghQBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,441,1498521600"; d="scan'208";a="655257805" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 28 Aug 2017 12:53:17 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.36] (ams-bclaise-nitro3.cisco.com [10.55.221.36]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7SCrHAZ012860; Mon, 28 Aug 2017 12:53:17 GMT To: NETMOD Working Group , YANG Doctors From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <26131545-049c-9a1a-eb2b-cdad6fce3190@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:53:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [yang-doctors] YumaPro SDK 17.10-B3 and yanglint 0.13.49 upgraded on claise.be X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 12:53:23 -0000 Dear all, With these two upgrades, we received way more warnings. Most comes from yanglint, to be candid. Please check your YANG modules at http://www.claise.be/IETFYANGPageCompilation.html About 50 YANG modules PASSED previously and now report PASSED WITH WARNINGS. It's great that validators check more and more things. This leads to increased quality YANG modules. Regards, Benoit From nobody Wed Aug 30 07:10:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: yang-doctors@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3306C132E99 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 07:10:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DlaAp8HsExJg for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50763132E92 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 07:10:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=28520; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1504102217; x=1505311817; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=qp+sAuHmwbm8l5RBzavZhScOahvsvSGKKPSIKpIHjQE=; b=ZVo07i2o4C2854dqctwOvHtVwpsZK+weq6YPn1Jb9NECh/tU8N7sifyW WrbowzP/Pi/i3orSq5FN/IGCYyu9hdD/H3VmlTD49PAMAHnuiBdTv3p1c XRJkyvwfa3A0G/q7lmHF/onXMRyPUt0bOwhLIpLdBL+5U9HF/6eXMO82m s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,448,1498521600"; d="scan'208,217";a="654285231" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 30 Aug 2017 14:10:15 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.36] (ams-bclaise-nitro3.cisco.com [10.55.221.36]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v7UEAEUK020641; Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:10:15 GMT To: Andy Bierman , Norm Strahle Cc: "yang-doctors@ietf.org" , Ing-Wher Chen , "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" References: <20170817050647.apfeuvfhfw23ws6n@elstar.local> <20170817083739.u4vfbtkm34vf5utw@elstar.local> <6991455A-91A6-42A6-86A6-F19A95BCD133@tail-f.com> <20170817120451.syz54lblctjitbm7@elstar.local> <3EA7384C-2D5D-4C00-8479-75277389DE5B@tail-f.com> <36E052B8-9028-4EE6-A393-F68EA3EF926B@tail-f.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <17685d4e-7c4b-d0c7-acae-c9732cd2e479@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 16:10:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------84348082288EDF84A5E32C50" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements X-BeenThere: yang-doctors@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Email list of the yang-doctors directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 14:10:26 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------84348082288EDF84A5E32C50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ing-Wher, Reviewing the email thread now, do you have your conclusions? Regards, B. > Hi, > > I guess it depends on what kind of functionality is being provided to > the client. > In this case it looks like there is no expectation of consistency or > requirement > for specific functionality. Features and deviations are both probably > overkill. > > SMIv2 has the concept of GROUP and MANDATORY-GROUP. > In some ways SMIv2 conformance is much better than YANG, > except SNMP never got the capability discovery right. > > Usually the groups have descriptions to say when a server should > implement the group. > If the criteria is "who knows, just implement it if you want" then the > module should make > that clear. > > > Andy > > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Norm Strahle > wrote: > > In our particular case, queue counters, there are several counters > and rates associated with a given queue (packets, bytes, > transmitted, dropped, queued, tail drop, current depth, peak, > average, max, transmit rate, drop rate, etc.)  It is easy to see > where most manufactures support most, but likely not all.  So, > likely all vendors would need to indicate which it is not > supporting.  To me it would seem that a feature at least gives the > client developer the hint up-front that this item is not required > to be supported and to handle the case.  There is no clue from a > model that a deviation is likely, so no way to anticipate. So, > wouldn’t a feature be better in this case than a deviation? > > *From:*Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com > ] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 17, 2017 12:06 PM > *To:* Giles Heron (giheron) > > *Cc:* Jan Lindblad >; > yang-doctors@ietf.org ; Ing-Wher > Chen >; > Norm Strahle >; > Aseem Choudhary (asechoud) > > *Subject:* Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding > conditional/optional statements > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Giles Heron (giheron) > > wrote: > > On 17 Aug 2017, at 16:49, Jan Lindblad > wrote: > > Have you ever seen a smart client that can cope > with randomly deviated YANG models, unless a > programmer has intervened and created special code > for handing that particular deviating device type? > I have not. > > Doesn't your client build a session-specific schema > tree based on the advertised modules? > > Deviations are clearly better than just not returning > anything. > > They tell the client that the missing counters are not > implemented as opposed > > to possibly a temporary, recoverable condition. > > Deviations are known at session startup time but they > can also be known in advance. > > Vendors use naming conventions to specify the > platform-specific deviations. > > Tools likeyangcatalog.org can > make this process automated and de-facto standardized. > > NSO itself will be just fine, but I'm worried about the > people building applications on top of NSO, e.g. an L3VPN > application. Let's say a deviation comes up at session > start, what's the application supposed to do then? I can't > think of much that doesn't involve a programmer. > > Declared deviations are clearly better than deviating and > not telling. But they are only really worth anything if > they are known to the application programmer before he > finishes his code. Yangcatalog.org >  helps, but not all modules will > be there and there's also a time dimension. Deviations > found at session start are probably not worth anything > other than as triggers for that special code someone wrote > to handle the situation. > > I feel deviations should not be recommended lightly. In > the particular case that started this discussion, they'd > bring little value. > > right - isn’t deviation supposed to be for the case where you > don’t support something that implementations are generally > expected to support? > > for what Helen wants features seem to be a better fit - at > least to me. > > Features are intended to convey that the functionality is optional. > > Presumably the data model is attempting to deliver some > functionality to the client developer. > > Features correspond well to optional protocol capabilities. > > Generally a single counter is not considered to be high-level > functionality. > > Ask the question "Why is counter FOO missing?" > > A1) because device XYZ does not support it > > A2) because it counts the FIZZBANG protocol, and that protocol is > not used on every device > > If A1 then use deviations. If A2 then use features. > > Giles > > Andy > > > > > _______________________________________________ > yang-doctors mailing list > yang-doctors@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/yang-doctors --------------84348082288EDF84A5E32C50 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Ing-Wher,

Reviewing the email thread now, do you have your conclusions?

Regards, B.
Hi,

I guess it depends on what kind of functionality is being provided to the client.
In this case it looks like there is no expectation of consistency or requirement
for specific functionality. Features and deviations are both probably overkill.

SMIv2 has the concept of GROUP and MANDATORY-GROUP.
In some ways SMIv2 conformance is much better than YANG,
except SNMP never got the capability discovery right.

Usually the groups have descriptions to say when a server should implement the group.
If the criteria is "who knows, just implement it if you want" then the module should make
that clear.


Andy


On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Norm Strahle <nstrahle@juniper.net> wrote:

In our particular case, queue counters, there are several counters and rates associated with a given queue (packets, bytes, transmitted, dropped, queued, tail drop, current depth, peak, average, max, transmit rate, drop rate, etc.)  It is easy to see where most manufactures support most, but likely not all.  So, likely all vendors would need to indicate which it is not supporting.  To me it would seem that a feature at least gives the client developer the hint up-front that this item is not required to be supported and to handle the case.  There is no clue from a model that a deviation is likely, so no way to anticipate. So, wouldn’t a feature be better in this case than a deviation?

 

From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 12:06 PM
To: Giles Heron (giheron) <giheron@cisco.com>
Cc: Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com>; yang-doctors@ietf.org; Ing-Wher Chen <Ing-Wher_Chen@jabil.com>; Norm Strahle <nstrahle@juniper.net>; Aseem Choudhary (asechoud) <asechoud@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [yang-doctors] question regarding conditional/optional statements

 

 

 

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Giles Heron (giheron) <giheron@cisco.com> wrote:

On 17 Aug 2017, at 16:49, Jan Lindblad <janl@tail-f.com> wrote:

 

Have you ever seen a smart client that can cope with randomly deviated YANG models, unless a programmer has intervened and created special code for handing that particular deviating device type? I have not.

 

 

Doesn't your client build a session-specific schema tree based on the advertised modules?

 

Deviations are clearly better than just not returning anything.

They tell the client that the missing counters are not implemented as opposed

to possibly a temporary, recoverable condition.

 

Deviations are known at session startup time but they can also be known in advance.

Vendors use naming conventions to specify the platform-specific deviations.

Tools like yangcatalog.org can make this process automated and de-facto standardized.

 

NSO itself will be just fine, but I'm worried about the people building applications on top of NSO, e.g. an L3VPN application. Let's say a deviation comes up at session start, what's the application supposed to do then? I can't think of much that doesn't involve a programmer.

 

Declared deviations are clearly better than deviating and not telling. But they are only really worth anything if they are known to the application programmer before he finishes his code. Yangcatalog.org helps, but not all modules will be there and there's also a time dimension. Deviations found at session start are probably not worth anything other than as triggers for that special code someone wrote to handle the situation.

 

I feel deviations should not be recommended lightly. In the particular case that started this discussion, they'd bring little value.

 

right - isn’t deviation supposed to be for the case where you don’t support something that implementations are generally expected to support?

 

for what Helen wants features seem to be a better fit - at least to me.

 

 

Features are intended to convey that the functionality is optional.

Presumably the data model is attempting to deliver some functionality to the client developer.

Features correspond well to optional protocol capabilities.

Generally a single counter is not considered to be high-level functionality.

 

Ask the question "Why is counter FOO missing?"

 

A1) because device XYZ does not support it

 

A2) because it counts the FIZZBANG protocol, and that protocol is not used on every device

 

 

If A1 then use deviations. If A2 then use features.

 

 

 

Giles

 

 

 

Andy

 




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